A Geek History of Time - Episode 227 - Hulk Hogan Media-Made Media Murderer part VI

Episode Date: September 2, 2023

See people when they click on this, they'll see the title, so they'll be like, poor head. However, because it's England, that's largely ignored and unstudy. I really wish for the sake of my sense of moral righteousness that I could get away with saying no. He had a god-damned ancestral home and a noble title until Germany became a republic. You know, none of this high-falutin, you know, critical role stuff. So they chewed through my favorite shit.

No, I'm not helping them. I'm gonna say that you're getting into another kind of, you know, Mediterranean or psyche archetype kind of thing. Makes sense. Also, trade winds are a thing. Uh-huh, just serious. Like, no, he really has a mad on it. I'll be able to go on a tangent. As we keep doing. Like, yeah, this is how we fill time. 1.5-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1- This is a geek history of time.

We're we connect to Nervary to the real world. My name is Ed Blaylock in world history and English teacher currently on contractual unemployment here in Northern California. in the Bay of London, Old History and English Teacher, currently on contractual unemployment, here in Northern California. And what I have going on right now is, we're gonna be going to Disneyland in about a month and a half or so. And we have been advised by friends of ours, one of whom works in the park

and one of whom is an annual passholder because they live down in Southern California, that before we go, we should make sure that Robert has seen pirates of the Caribbean, so that when we go on the ride, he's gonna know what all the references are to. Now, being of a certain age myself, I have feelings about the changes that Disney has made to the ride and theates of the Caribbean to my son.

And he got a kick out of it. He got spooked out in all the right moments and did the fist bumps of victory at all the right beats. He was following along. But what I have to say is, I don't think in the wider media analysis landscape that that movie got quite enough credit for being clever in the way that it was. Now, I wanna be very specific here.

It's not a smart movie. It doesn't delve into any deep meaningful questions about, you know, and it does nothing philosophical at all. But there is a very great deal of cleverness in the way it plays with its own particular rules about magic and the supernatural and how stuff works. And so, yeah, I think I on multiple watchings and yeah, it comes across as being a better movie in some ways on multiple viewings to me anyway. And it's also very clear that everybody involved in the production was having way too much fun, which always makes it a better movie to me. Even if it's not high art, even if it's not, you know,

deeply meaningful or intellectually worth a tinkers cuss, it's fun and entertaining and that's why I spend my money to go to the theater. So anyway, that's what I have going on. How about you, sir? Well, I'm Damien Harmony. I'm a US history teacher up here in Northern California. And the news I've got is that I today was called a Motherfucking Moron by my son while watching a cartoon. It was awesome. And I even turned to him like you know

this is the only place you can say those words to him, right? And he's like, yeah, I know. But I basically had, oh God, what was it? I think I was saying like I was mispronouncing the name of a character multiple times. And so what you're saying is you were baiting him completely. Yes. Okay. And I did it a bunch and my daughter corrected me and then I did it wrong again. And then my daughter corrected me and I did it wrong again. And then my son corrected me and then I did it wrong again.

And then he corrected me and ended it with you mother fucking moron. So if you want your child to swear at you, watch uh, Earth's mightiest heroes, the Avengers cartoon. Um, first off, it's, it's great TV. Anyway, it's very loyal to the comic series. Uh, it's various, uh, issues. It's very loyal to them as far as the, the, it, it holds to the material. But yeah, so it was, and I got to tell a few jokes like, did you know, I said, you know, do you know what a,

abominations first name is? My daughter was like, I think it's, I'm like, it's Baroque. And so, it was fun. It was good time. So yes, according to my son, I am a mother fucking moron. So do not forget, sir. Hi, I'm an ass. Right. Yeah. So I'm just going to call you dogberry for the rest of the evening. So my question is, which character's name were you mispronouncing? To so drive them to remember I remember at this point.

Because it might have been, might have been a hawk guy. Because hawk guy. Okay. But I don't think that's what it was. I would, if I asked him, he would know exactly because I'm sure the memory of a thing that has a long memory. Yeah. I know what it was.

I think I was pointing out like on, maybe it was Avatar that we were watching. I don't remember. Oh yeah, that's what it was. So when Zuko puts on the blue mask and he becomes the blue spirit. Yeah, the blue spirit. I kept calling him different versions of that.

I was like, oh yeah, yeah, it's the Azure Phantom. It's the serially en-ghost. yeah, it's the as your phantom. It's the serenely en-ghost. Yeah, it's the sapphire ghost. It's the man. Oh, man. Oh, they're fucking. Oh, it's good. It is really good. So. And the thing is you have, I, having, having met both of your children, yes, to drive your son to that level of response. You have to have hit that button nine, ten. He is remarkably intolerant once he catches on that you're doing it on purpose. If you're doing it genuinely, he has all the patience in the world for you. The second he figures out you're doing it on purpose purpose like that very time you might get cast out. So, well, yeah, at least gentleness, his gentleness has limit. So what we're sitting

here. Okay. Intention matters. Oh, so what you're saying is without even realizing you're you're raising a Catholic. Oh, Lord. Yeah, probably. He is kind of just like personally kind of conservative until you actually explain to him what the actual issue is. And then you'll be like, oh, no, never mind. Yeah. So yeah. Okay. Manity comes second form. Dogma comes first. He's big. Well, you know, it goes, it goes back to my reading of the Gospels that Jesus was in fact a person with autism because every single thing he does is Similar to a kid with autism like he goes and rocks himself in that boat He's stimming and every time he tells a parable

He's in the middle of telling himself a story and then people come up and bug him and they're like, oh my god This is amazing and they run away with oh my god, this is amazing. And they run away with it and he's just telling him, he's just self-talking the story about, you know, the mustard seed or something. And like, you know, he figures out how to, you know, share fish and share bread with people because he can actually just stay focused on that one task. You know, there's all kinds of stuff like his his inability to compromise with the Pharisees very clear

Like no, yeah, you guys should be following rules and you're doing it wrong. You should be yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah that totally that totally lines up It so just give me more it gave me more compassion for him when I read it with that lens that I'd ever had before Because of how the story ends. Spoiler alert. It's kind of badly. Yeah. Yeah. Spoiler alert and does not end well for him. Or I mean, if you believe it ultimately ends well for him and the part where he's walking on the water. And one of his muscles says, Jesus, what are you doing? He's like, huh, what? Didn't even notice? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Um, so my, my, I, I've, I've heard all this before. But as you're, as you're, as you're saying it now,

the question that Christy me has has, has Dr. Cruz, the other, the other, other you know Catholic that we know and interact with the other sirly Catholic that I talked to the other sirly yes sirly but really that I am a Teddy yes but I'm not spoken to him of this no but okay because I do yeah he did ask that we got to find out what he thinks. Yes, that we start putting like time stamps on how long the show is because he texted me once and he's like, I need to know if this is like two hours or one hour,

I'm tired of this cowboy shit. So. All right. And I just can't I jack them like, oh, this one's a two hour. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, oh, this one's a two hour. Yeah. So yeah, anyway, long story long. Yeah. We also had a guest tonight. Yes, we can speak of friends of the show. Yes, as we continue our our reign of of Hulk Hogan media made media murderer. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, everything in between and on either side,

please welcome back Andrew Sutherland who is still chasing his PhD and he's got his first year down. Andrew, welcome to the show. Hi there. I'm happy to be back. I am just a little bit stunned hearing the idea that Jesus Christ was autistic and in all honesty. I'm gonna probably get a text from my mother like how don't you say that. It makes so much sense, especially when you go into, I was going to try to make a joke, but I can't think of any new testament versus his sermon on the mound. It's yeah, I mean, changing the order of things. Yeah, yeah, where he talks about 24 facts about trains, right? Yeah, the first shall be last because the engine needs to go backwards.

Now, yeah, exactly. There we get that's what. Yeah, there you go. Well, thanks. Yeah. And the thing is speaking, speaking as as as, you know, a believer, believer, my own take on it. And this is not mainstream. But my own take on it is, if your interpretation is that, that, you know, Jesus was autistic or exhibited autistic behaviors. The knee jerk reaction that everybody wants to have that,

well, no, he was not, is deeply fucking ableist. Yes. And, and here's the deal. If you're a believer, you know, if you've, if you've read the book and, and follow the teachings, Jesus was fully human and fully divine and what exactly does that do to a human brain? Yeah, no, that's what I was kind of thinking.

Like as somebody who's fairly agnostic, my mindset is like, oh, that kind of makes sense because to me in a lot of ways, people who have autism tend to have superpowers in a lot of ways. Or yeah, they're strangely mundane in a way that is just slightly off, off, sink with everyone else and go back to the Bronze Age and you just needed to count past four and people would think you're a genius. Like, you know, yeah. I would also mean for Heuber's sake, yes, but I mean, I would also point out though

that in the Muslim faith, in Islam, people who are who exhibit what we would call special needs now are considered to be people who are closer to God. So. Yeah, well, in according to the Quran, anybody who is in a position that makes them vulnerable within the context of an Iron Age civilization is closer to God. Widows, orphans, right, the poor, the dispossessed, the disabled, the crippled, any of those people according to the prophet, which is to say according to God transmitted through the prophet, if you're a believer in Islam. But the teachings of the Quran and the teachings of the Hadith,

which are less, you know, don't know this is the word of God. And more. No, this is how Muhammad explained it to all of us. No, it is very seriously. If someone is vulnerable, then God wants you to help them and look after them. And you should treat them as being special and they are closer to God because of that vulnerability.

And the thing is this is one of those moments where the ecumenist in me is like it's all the same fucking message. Like at the end of the day, nearly every faith in the world, there are exceptions. The Aztecs come to mind. There are exceptions, but nearly every faith in human history has come down to the idea that, no, no, ultimately, we need to help one another, and we are all connected. Yeah. And I love all this. Yeah. It's easy to make me happy right before we are all connected. Yeah. And I love all of this. Yeah. It's like, it doesn't make me happy right before we dive into stuff.

Right before we dive into something that's just so corrosive to our sense of humanity. And yeah, yeah, they're in. Yeah. So yeah. No, I got to tell people, if you, if you find another podcast that in the same episode, we'll talk about the ramifications of a faith, venerating, and taking care of people with special needs, and Hulk Hogan's penis, you go ahead and listen to that podcast instead then, okay? Like, I don't need to compete with that. Like, if you find the other one that does that, you fine.

You know what? Go. We wish you well. Yeah. Go. We, you know what go we wish you what go we yes We wish you well in Shalah. Yeah exactly. Thanks by inch actually using it correctly, but you know yeah by I could use now I'm just trying to think like What happened if I use that whole argument against um next time I interact with an anti-vaxxer I'm just... Well, they're just getting up the trip to see God anyway.

Exactly. Problems are taking everyone else with them. Yeah, the trouble is the self was disinvolved in it. Yeah. Anyway, Andrew, we're talking about Hulk Hogan, media-made, media murderer, and you brought off camera. You brought off some interesting stuff.

You wanted to kind of come back to Arsenio Hall show. So yeah, so first things first. I'm just gonna bring up the happy thing that has happened this week. It's not to me, it's my partner, my girlfriend. She just got a job offer. She's not wanting to teach anymore and she's wanting to transition to a new career. And she got a great job offer and I'm incredibly proud of her.

Oh, excellent. Well, I'm very happy to hear that. I'm sad that we are losing a colleague, but it's understandable. And I'm glad that she is. I'm glad that she has found another opportunity. That's wonderful. Oh, I love her so much. Okay, but like what I was saying, so for me, when it comes to whole

cold and one of the biggest and most unique things about him is how he likes to play to the audience, how he likes to engage with, if, with the audience and tries to present himself in certain ways, depending on the situation. I was the first, I'm trying to remember because I don't want to call him Jimmy Carson again. Johnny, Johnny Carson, Johnny Carson's show. For, yeah. I just have to say, as an old, I kind of hate you for not being a more remember his name.

God damn it. Andrew was born literally after Carson went off the air. I know. I know. It's not why it makes me burn with such fury. Because it's not in to me how old I am. Anyway, it's not because of that. It's literally because I've been like just setting up courses all day. And that's what's been killing me. So it's first first first media appearance on a national television. He played the audience. He presented himself in a very like humble manner. He was trying to show himself in like a polite manner because he knew the audience tends to be tend to be like middle upper middle class. He wants to present himself as like somebody who is approachable

and somebody who in a way that is considered Eric quotes wholesome. Then we saw on MTV where he knew his audience and also at the same time he was promoting WWE so he needed to be in that persona of Hulk Hogan and he was more aggressive to a younger audience. And I kind of want to, I just want to jump in here and I don't want to step on your toes, but what I find interesting about the difference between those two appearances is in both of them, he's there as Hulk Hogan, he's never there as Terry Belaya.

He's always operating under the name of Hulk Hogan, but the he keeps getting hot. Edge or the Ampric, the Ampric of how Hulk is Hulk Hogan goes up and down. So I think his name keep in mind though, the Carson, he was with the AWA. Yeah, he's slowly going when he shows up with MTV Belzer and MTV on MTV. He's opening the WF to a wide audience, a wider audience,

and they've ever had. So he's not slowly regionalizing. And when he shows up on Belzer show, he's literally there to promote WrestleMania in that town in less than a week. So there are different things going on, but you're still broad strokes, still very correct. Yeah, well, I mean, the part that I find fascinating is it's all K-fabe. it's never not K-fabe. Right. But as Andrew was pointing out, the intensity of the K-fabe is kind of what he's dialing up and dialing down, or how in character as the in the ring Hulk are we getting. Exactly. And so when he was on Belzer's show, he was fairly calm throughout the entire episode, even while he was choking him out, he was out. He didn't have that hyper aggressive

like face type of mentality when he's on that show. And we see that like consistently, And we see that like consistently. When he's on the show, his WWF, when he's on air, he is proplying his full Cogin to 11. But if he's depending on who the primary audience is or the situation on the show, he changes. MTV, he's much more aggressive, Richard Belzer, he's much more calm, mainly because Booker T is Mr. T. Mr. T. Booker T comes here later. Yeah. Yeah. Which Mr. T comes on years,

comes on much more hyped up. He's trying to be a little bit more calm. What other episode was the other one that made me think about this was, I thought about this a lot when it came to his deposition when he was when they were when he was serving as a witness for the prosecution in that one case in the series trial. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And how whole at the end, Vince McMahon was mad at him. Even though Vince McMahon won, I think all that was K-Fade completely. But I also think I think Hulk Hogan's audience and that situation wasn't the jury. I think he was Colgan's audience and that situation wasn't the jury. I think he was presenting to Vince McMahon. Oh, I think he's he's playing K-fabe to Vince McMahon saying like, I know what we've done.

But I'm letting you know either one of two things. One, I'm gonna not say everything, but present it in a certain way. Or two, I just want you to know you don't have full control over me. I think that part especially. Yeah. Yeah. Holy shit. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I see that. that's that's some like TV drama level shit there. Well That it makes sense in a lot of ways as we see like perspective especially. Yeah, yeah And then and then we get into our cineohal who this is the one that made me start thinking more about his media appearances Mainly because in a lot of ways on the other shows, he was in a way playing, he wasn't playing defensive. He was kind of like playing to the audience and in a off and a offensive way. But when he was on Arsenio Hall, he was much more defensive mainly

because Arsenio Hall is a great interviewer. And so he was trying to literally get more in-depth questions. And Ho-Kolgan went way too defensive to a point that he had to figure out a way to connect with our Cennial Hall's audience and not really the best manner. Now our Cennial Hall audience, just real quick, is very friendly to pro wrestling. But it's also distinctly different from Carson's audience at that time. Let's see, at that time, yeah, Carson was still on the letterman's audience at that time. It's distinctly different from theirs. Ourably. Like I was a regular viewer in 91. And I'm so that was I was 16. So we're talking college students. Fuck you. But you know, I mean, it was it was teenagers. It was or like, yeah, it was it's skewed much younger. Johnny Carson was for my grandparents.

You know, Letterman would have been for my folks, except my folks never stayed up that late at night. And they both thought David Letterman was a jackass. I was just they would have found Letterman to be too subversive and chaotic. I would imagine. No, well, just an asshole. Well, one, my family history, but just two, just his, his, yeah, anyway. And so, but, but Arsenio Hall was, he was reaching out to a more diverse, younger, uh, much more focused on POC audience, uh, whereas both, uh, Carson and Letterman were, their audiences were lily white.

Very much so. And, and, you know, Carson was, silence and Letterman was was a certain set of the boomers. So yeah. And, and so, so he, so, so Hogan reaches for the, for the one, the one example, you know, that immediately jumps to mind. Exactly. And, and, well, let's let Andrew tell us. Yeah, go, go ahead. Go ahead. And so, that's let Andrew tell us. Yeah, go go ahead. Go ahead. And so that's basically where I'm getting at. Like because he knew our Stinneal Hall's audience is much more younger and diverse, he just tried to like cherry pick like who is in the new news the most at that time. And it was Clarence Thomas. Spoiler alert, not a lot of people of diverse backgrounds or people of color like Clarence Thomas. And I think in a lot of ways he shows Clarence Thomas for one, he was predominantly in the media,

but he made the point that like instead of like talking about like the other stuff that was controversial at the time, like the sexual assault allegations against Clarence Thomas. He brings up this like one little thing about like him saying, I smoked pot and college and I never smoked again. And I think he was basically in a way like stereotyping people of color in a lot of ways, but also the other big thing is like Hulk Hogan's fairly conservative and he was just thinking himself, oh who do I know? Oh this one person of color who happens to be conservative and because these are my worldviews other people might appreciate this worldview. And then oh what's the worst thing he's done? Oh, smoke pot. Certainly not sexually harass a black woman

who is professional. And I think if he, I honestly think one, if he had more time to think about this, he might have chose somebody more like approachable and he wouldn't come off so defensive and aggressive in that episode. Compare himself to Peewee Herman, say. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. Who took his future into his own hands? Exactly. It was a touching moment. Along with some other things. Yeah. So here's a question for you.

Based on, this is the first time that we've seen Terry Balea, Nate Polkogan in a media environment like this one make this major a misstep. Like this is, he winds up coming off looking defensive and desperate. And it's a seriously putting a foot wrong, which we have not seen him do before. And my question there is, because you said earlier, you gave credit to Arsenio,

I think fittingly, you gave credit to Arsenio for being a really good interviewer. Do you think part of the issue here was that this wasn't a situation where Hogan was just able to immediately take control of the conversation? And when he didn't like step into it, winning from the jump, he didn't like, he didn't know how to handle it. I think so. I think so because like in all the shows that he's been on, he has always played through the audience and the audience loved him. Even when he was choking Richard Belzer

out and granted, he took control of that situation in a very dark way, if we think about it. In a very kinetic way. But he did. In this situation, he had no control. He had no ability to present himself in the way that he wanted to. And it went off the deep end for him. I see. So I absolutely agree with you. I think there needs to be a little bit more nuance to this. Number one, we don't genuinely know his motives, right?

We're guessing at these things. These are what we are alleging just saying that for legal reasons in case somebody actually listens. Number two, the other ones, he is there to promote something. He has a mission. He has a brand and he is pushing that brand for that mission. This time, he is coming out to clarify something for himself. He is not promoting a show. He's not promoting a movie. He's not promoting himself even.

He is coming out much more as a person and much less like a shill. And the result is when he doesn't have a mission in front of him, he is, he does not have as much K-Ffabe armor as he does in those other times. I think that's a way, better way of explaining it in a much more elegant way than I was. You know, I'm not a communications major, so I can do that. No, you're, it's funny. I know some professor, who's like an expert in relationships and marriage

and they've been divorced twice. So they're a veteran of two marriages. I know. Exactly. This is why my advice is more appropriate for other people than, than either Ed's or yours because I have gone through two marriages full cycle. Ed's still in the middle of his second. And that's fine, that's fine, but he is not the veteran that I am. And you run a podcast and we all know that the smartest, most communicative people in the world have successful podcasts. Actually, it just comes with the white kids

at the beard starter. Yeah, that's exactly what all three of us have shared. Yeah, I wish I wish our audience could actually see our zoom call right now. I think I would say we have a great deal of diversity amongst our guests, because we always have different colored beards. Yeah. God. Like I'm trying to think of when we had a but it's true that was not a bearded man.

Tessa. Okay, there's Tessa. It was Tessa. And then other than that, I think it's Brent Hannah Hill and that's it. And when, yeah, and when, and when Tessa was on the show, we had Sean on the show and, right, he's also away. I got in with a beard.

I Sean, how are you doing? Yeah, so. All right. Well, okay. So that how you're doing. Yeah. So all right. Well, okay. So that's, but it's true. Remember that. Let's put a pin in that his, his picking the nearest black target he can. And then speaking to a stereotype that he thinks we'll play with the audience because that is going to show up later on. Maybe not in this episode, but in the next. Because that is going to show up later on maybe not in this episode, but in the next and

Learn yeah, well, I would you if you rewarded for your mistakes I think you when you manage to fail sideways or upwards. There's no need to learn anything exactly Like you so so he puts his he puts both feet wrong on our sinew hall Uh-huh, and it doesn't really, like, nothing really happens. It doesn't really pay for it. Like, it doesn't really, it doesn't really, it doesn't really, it doesn't really, it doesn't really, it doesn't really, it doesn't really, it doesn't really, it doesn't really, it doesn't really, it doesn't really, it doesn't really,

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It's not really in either place neither fish nor foul. Yeah. Yeah. So now as I'd said before, remember Hulk Hogan is is in the WCW. He's bringing celebrities to Ted Turner. Ted Turner has a lot of money and a lot of mainstream exposure for Hulk Hogan again. As I had said previously, I believe in episodes 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, the lost cause episodes, Hulk Hogan grew stale after a couple of years in a Southern territory. Ultimately, even though it's a national company, it's still very much a Southern based territory in the culture of those who watch it are still very southern. And he grew stale because you don't have a good guy taking on all comers and defeating

them. You have lost cause methodology. So after a couple years of stale growth, Hulk Hogan shows up at Bash of the Beach 1996. Well, no, I'm sorry, I got to take it back to Bash of the Beach 1995. At Bash of the Beach 1995, he has a cage match and he has Dennis Rodman as his second. This is the first time that Dennis Rodman shows up on WCW. This is 95. Now, this episode actually shows up on a 1996 episode of Baywatch. So he's stale to the wrestling audience, but the spectacle that he's bringing eyeballs to, including the most famous show in the world at the time. It's him versus him and Savage versus Vader and Flair at a

cage match on the beach with Dennis Rodman seconding him. And it shows up in a 96 episode of Baywatch. Okay, so hold on. The Rossini O'Hall appearance was 91. Uh-huh. And we've jumped to 95. Well, because Andrew wanted to come back to something that's in 99. Okay. All right. It was a return. I was just, okay.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Just making sure. Yeah. So, and in the in the ensuing time. Uh-huh. Remember, he'd done thunder and paradise.

Yeah. He'd been in, okay. So he'd had, he'd had all of this other media exposure. Right. And now he's back in wrestling, starting in the WCW, right? Right. Because Ted Turner and Vince McMahon had a, had a hate thing. Yeah. A hissy fit. Yeah.

A billionaire battle. Yeah. Yeah. So, and now Hulk Hogan continues to saturate and saturate and saturate in wrestling again, but also he's starting to take little bit pieces and he's starting to take small movies and doing very little with them at this time. And then of course, he turns bad guy. He goes heal and he ends up doing several movies between his times in the ring because

he kind of turns part time as far as the wrestling goes. And so he starts taking more and more movies in between. For instance, secret agent club was a movie that he did. It included James Hong, Santa with muscles, which included Garrett Morris, Ed Begley, Clint Howard, and a very young Miele Kunis, the made for TV movie, Assault on Devil's Island, which included Carl Weathers, Martin Cove, Shannon Tweed, and Billy Blanks, McKinsey's Island,

which included Grace Jones and Brutus Beefcake as Jetskyr I, a cruel bit of casting, I think, considering what happened to Brutus Beefcake's face due to a woman writing a Jetsky or one, a cruel bit of casting, I think, considering what happened to Brutus Beef Cakes face due to a woman writing a jet ski just a few years earlier. He also did three ninjas high noon at Mega Mountain with Jim Varnie, Lonnie Anderson and Victor Wong. Victor Wong, okay, wait, yeah, stop, stop, stop. Jim Varnie. Yes. Dot Jim Varney. Yes. Ernest P. Warl. Yep. Notami. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hey, yeah. Yeah. And so all of these roles that he took clearly were for the paycheck and to keep his sag status because it's not like he was box office draw. And what years were these?

What was the time range? This is Jane. This is basically between 96 to 98. Okay. All right. A few of these are I think might have predated his NWO run, but by and large, this is 96, 98. So he starts part time wrestling. And, and so he'll go away for two weeks of production here, there and everywhere.

He'll have recorded pre-recorded scenes and stuff like that to play the top and the bottom of the hour kind of stuff. Or he just doesn't do any house shows. He only shows up for the nitro and stuff like that. I'm just making sure you didn't miss his most significant movie role. Oh, we haven't reached it. No, no way better. more important. Oh, it happened in 1999. Oh, I'm looking at my notes right now and I don't know that I have it. When I get there, step in with this because I'm a little bit out of myself. So the real white hot aspect of his career was recreating old feuds that had been useful and helpful in the WWF, but then using the NWO to do so. So he's literally invertign them all. He, he, he, Roddy Piper shows up. And now Roddy Piper is the good guy. And Hulk Hogan's the bad guy.

The ultimate warrior shows up, countless other foes from yesterday, as well as making sure that he buries new talent and always with Hollywood Hogan. He's now calling himself Hollywood Hogan, not Hulk Hogan. He publicly abjures himself from that name and insists on being called Hollywood Hogan. It's always with him at the center of the storm and it's always with him having creative control over his matches and his storyline. Now this is a thing that's largely unheard of up until this point.

The booker has control. The booking committee, if it's WCW during certain times, have control over what you do with your character. Hulk Hogan straight up would be like, I'm not gonna do that because that's not what my character would do and It was now it doesn't mean that other other wrestlers didn't do stuff like that. They absolutely would But it's a negotiation

Hogan had it written into his contract that nope if I say no, it's a no He also gets an appearance. Yeah, go ahead is he able to get away with that just because it is contract. So yes. Well, oh, yeah, I nobody else. Yes, I know he got a role. I know he got away with it, saying is the reason he was able to get away with that, just the fact that he was the name that like anybody, any rando on the street, wouldn't if you said who's whole hogan, everybody like anybody on the street would understand who you were talking about

Some what okay, there's also a great with that. Yeah, there's also you you have The output it this way think of a class that you know do not ever want to teach Got it, okay, and there and you've done it before let's say that it's yeah, last that you've taught before and you don't ever want to teach. And your dean or your principal comes up to you and says, what will it take? And you say, I want this specific prep period. I want a $10,000 a year raise. I want my own parking spot. And I want somebody to make all my copies and then they turn around and say done

Okay, like fuck right? It's not a bitch. So Hogan have come back to wrestling. Okay. That's that's essentially what Ted Turner promised him Yeah, it was like I want I want you yes because you have the name recognition that I can make all the money in the world. And also I will have the big name from the WWF, which will just make Vince McMahon spit nails. Well, Vince McMahon had already gotten rid of nails back in 1991. Yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry. I would also have done by the way. Yeah, no, excellent. I would also add like another big

contribution was that Hulk Hogan did help with like a lot of like PR to build up WCW by like inviting all these celebrities and like helping do they do they they had multiple like wrestlers in the WCW and his tv shows, right? Oh, um, did they, did they, they had multiple like wrestlers in the WCW and his TV shows, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That I don't think there's cross-pollination going on. Yeah, exactly. And I think that was a big thing that Hulk Hogan contributed. Absolutely. And as a result, he gets an appearance fee, appearance fee of $250,000 per pay-per-view that he appears at. What the f**k? Yeah, that's in addition to his salary. So, any, I have read Hulk Hogan's contract with WCW because it's been released.

I'm sitting there going, oh my god, like the the excess here. It just like, I swear to god, they're sitting around going like, what else can we throw in there? What why why why didn't I pay more attention in PE? Right? Like I got in the wrong business. Well, you did do it in a part. But yeah, yeah, but in addition to his salary,

so anytime he shows out upon a pay-per-view, he automatically gets 250K. This means that any pay-per-view you got him on, you're gonna wanna advertise like a motherfucker, right? And yet, and at least, to pay-per-views, he shows up as a surprise. The reason for this is that WCW was never a wrestling company. It was a television company.

And if you drive interest on, and so wrestling company, WWF, everything was geared around, get people to come out for the pay-per-views, get people to spend money on the pay-per-views. TV supports pay-per-views. WCW was the inverse. Yeah.

Get people talking. Okay. And tuning in. And get everybody to tune in to the ratings. And that's where the advertiser was. Yeah. Okay, And to get everybody to tune in to the rating. And that's where the advertisement is. Okay. For whatever there. Yeah. Thursday night, Friday night. Well, Monday night, row. Yeah, you know, the Monday night wars. You had Monday night, row. Later on, you'd have Thursday night thunder, which then turned to Wednesday night thunder. You also had Saturday

night, wrestling. There was a few other shows. But yes, you need to get everybody's eyeballs on screen. Right. And so, okay, so yeah, inverse, that makes sense. All right. And with all that mainstream attention, you're also, you're just trying to get around everybody's water coolers. You really? Okay. Yeah. All right. That's fair. Now, at one point, all merch sales, Now, at one point, all merch sales, all merch sales of WCW were credited to Hulk Hogan, rather than the stars for whom it was developed. This could have been stupidity on the part of, because they didn't have the merch department that WF had, right? So, this could have been, was the incompetence.

Okay. It could have also been somebody being like, well, let's see how long we can get away from, way with it. And what happened was, I believe it was Chris Jericho, his, I think girlfriend or something, went to a hot topic and bought a Chris Jericho t-shirt or a doll or something like that.

And on the receipt, it said one whole Kogan t-shirt or something, you know, it said a whole Kogan product. And she showed it to him. And he's like, what the fuck? And so Hogan's getting all the credit for all the sales. Now, could that be that clean X is a branch name? And when you say hand me a clean X, I know you mean a tissue. How did it be? Or Yeah, how did Hogan not get ambushed like behind the scenes by three guys with led pipes? Because if he shows up on a card, you know, you're making more money.

Wow, even if he's gonna grift and I don't think I'm not gonna say that he'd I'm not assigning any motivation on his part. Pay attention attorneys. Yep. Oh my god. That's amazing. Wow. going to say that he'd I'm not assigning any motivation on his part. Pay attention attorneys. Yep. Oh my God. That's amazing. Wow. Oh, he. Okay. So so literally he has gotten into a position whether he made himself that way or not. Mm hmm. Because the phrase that comes to mind is he has made himself so indispensable. But no, no, we we we don't want to assign motive for, or, well, that's not motive. That's just consequence. Okay. But he has, he has become so indispensable to the product that he can get away with contract terms that fuck over. Yes. Literally everybody else he's performing with all of his colleagues. Yes. And he's making enough money for all of them that the over and under is such that like it pisses

them off, but they have to choke it down. No, it was, they didn't know because WCW was so bad at doing merch for so long that it was never anybody's revenue stream in that company except for him because he came in with the holster stuff. He came in with the red and the yellow and then when it switched to NWO, he got a cut of the NWO shirts. So did the other guys who were originally in the NWO? So then when other people start to, like, I mean, Dean Malinco was not counting on

T-shirt revenues for his, well, I mean, yeah, you know, he wasn't, you know, yeah. So you wouldn't know it. Yeah. Like, well, yeah, but then you find out and like, it will, yeah. And then, and then it was corrected. Okay. All right. But you know, Jesus. So, so do we have any, I mean, do we have any idea? Can we make any kind of an estimate of how many dollars went into his pocket? No, because again, nobody could be CW was relying on doing it. Yeah. But that's still got to be what he figured a couple hundred thousand dollars. Not for

most well, uh, over the course of two years, over the course of a couple of the merch monies. Yeah. Maybe, maybe in the tens of thousands. Again, WCW was garbage when it came to merch. Their stars were not paid for house shows. Their stars were not paid for appearances and stuff like that. Their stars, their wrestlers were paid flat rate. You come in at a certain rate, it was guaranteed money and guaranteed dates. They were salary performers. Exactly. Okay. So anything extra you made, I mean, it was, okay.

So, so it was, it was much more like a sag contract and much less like a traditional wrestling contract. Yeah. And the problem is, and a lot of wrestlers from WCW have said this, you didn't make top guy money unless you were a top guy and you couldn't be a top guy if you didn't make top guy money. So if you came out in at 156K per year, you're not going to make it to the main event. They will never push you that high. You have to go away, get good, come back, and maybe you can command a higher salary.

But only certain people at the, and again, bad booking, bad decision making, and so on. But it was working once the NWO storyline got started. Well, it was working because the NWO storyline caught the public imagination. Yes. And at some point, the people running WCW had to, like at least fall backward or sideways into some level of understanding what they were doing.

Yeah, they were jobbing for the NWO. Yes. And then you just wait for Hogan's old menaces to be brought in. Yeah, okay. All right, fair. All right. Um, because, you know, remember, they're waiting for the great white face savior from the sky. Sting. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I just, I, you know, how ages, ages and ages ago, you said every time you say the Eagles, I think Don Henley, every time you say Sting, I think fields of gold.

I picture Fade Routha. I can't. And any time somebody mentions that Sting was in a dune, I think, oh, was it surfers thing or was it crow's thing? Like, it has to be crow's thing. Right. And like, I mean, you know, look at everybody else in dune. They're all exactly like, I mean, it's got to be, yeah. So anyhow, the NWO storyline lasted until 1998 in its first iteration, December of

98. At one point on Thanksgiving, Hulk Hogan came by the Jay Leno show to announce his retirement and that he was running for president. This was November of 1998. Andrew, you look so disgusted. Yeah. I mean, like, oh, you got somebody who loves to play into populism and then says he decides to run for president relies on K-Fab for like literally his existence. But yeah, November of 98, why is Hulk Hogan thinking that he should insert himself into the political sphere in 1998? I mean, like some people love to announce that they're running for president what a year

or two beforehand, especially if they're populous. This is pre-John. Is he indicted? No. No, Jesse Ventura had won the governorship of Minnesota. That's fine. And Hogan's like, well, Jesse's doing it. All right.

Fuck you. Right. You're going to stay. I'll be president. So he's trying to get the one we're saying. Oh my God. The one we're saying is, because Jesse Fentura won governor and eventually made like a great like train,

train system between the twin cities. Yeah. The scab himself decides try to one up him. Yeah. Yeah. The union buster himself. Right. Yeah. And Jesse was a populist. When he ran, he was a populist. I don't remember the actual party that he declared himself a part of. I thought he was an independent. He ran independent. He ended. Yeah. But I want to say that like the name and it could be something we've got. But yeah, sure. But I'll look it up. Yeah. He I want to say he was part of the popular party or the populist party or something to that effect when he was running for smaller office. Because remember Jesse didn't just run for governor. He had been small town council. Yeah.

The Independence Party of Minnesota. There we go. Okay, so but the interesting thing there is, you know, Jesse Ventura. I will also say he was also associated with the green party. Yes, he was in in in 2020 independence party 2000 to 2003 and the reform party 1998 2000. Yeah, he's been around. He yeah, he's an island unto himself. Yeah, he's he's 40% of what he says is pretty dope actually. Yeah. And on any given day, the 40% changes. Um, he's been pretty consistent about like you, you can't be torturing people. Yeah. You, you have to like take care of poor people. Yeah. You need to preserve the environment. Yeah. Um, he's been pretty good about those things. It's, it's the conspiracy theory shit. That's, yeah. No, He's been pretty good about those things. It's the conspiracy theory

shit. That's yeah, no, it's a serious is yeah, we're able to separate we're able to separate like, oh shit, those are some awesome public transportation. Let's kind of ignore the fact that you believe that the government controls the weather, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll we'll we'll gloss over that. Yeah, that's the one. That's the big thing that you Conspiracy theory wise that he believes in yeah, oh, yeah But but for for most of those folks and Ventura is no different their pet conspiracy theory winds up being tied to literally all the rest of it exactly, you know and tied to literally all the rest of it. Exactly. Yeah.

And what I find interesting there is just even to like the fact that he started out running for local office, is indicative of the fact that he was like, OK, I made a living as a professional wrestler, after being a veteran and doing all this stuff. And like, no, he, he really actually wanted to get any government because he was like, that shit's fucked up. I'm going to fix that. Mm hmm. As opposed to Hulk Hogan, whose whole motivation for getting into politics

is, well, if he can do it, I fucking can. Well, and he's not really getting into politics. He's announcing his candidacy for president. And just for retirement. Yeah. He's basically, oh, Jesse's in a news cycle. Let me get what Shine I can, and I'll get on Leno, massive exposure. And he gets that.

And then this gets backed by a serious interview on Nitro with Eric Bischoff where he talks and and now we've seen this in other iterations for other wrestlers where they they pretend to be seriously retiring and then of course they they come back and fuck somebody up or whatnot. And and this Hogan does this. He comes back in January of 1999 to commit the finger poke of doom on Kevin Nash. So real quick before I get there, I need to correct something I said. I said that this NWO storyline lasted until December of 98,

it lasted until December of 97, and then it kind of tripped and fell over itself and rolled into a ball of fire by February of 98. So, NWO, first version, did last through into 98, but not, I mixed up my months. So, by November, Hogan retiring does kind of make sense. He's not retiring at the top of NWO height and fame. He's retiring when it's It's hardly anybody. I think you have the wolf pack at that time. Sting looks like a tomato um, and uh, so now Hogan comes back Kevin Nash had been part of the wolf pack and then the wolf pack is NWO wolf pack which are good guy

NWO guys. it gets really fucking weird. They have a really cool entrance song, um, but just look up sting Wolfpack, W-O-L-F-P-A-C, and you'll see that he just looks like he's been sunburned. And Hogan comes back in January of 99 after hiatus of about two months, and he does the finger poke of doom on Kevin Nash. Um, and basically what that is is that he and Kevin Nash are going to wrestle for the title. Goldberg has just lost the title. And there was Shaqanari all around and Hogan is coming in and he's going to set the record

straight and he's going to rescue WCW and everybody's like, oh shit, Hogan's back. You know, this is not just Hollywood Hogan. And he and mash go to lock up and then Hogan pokes him in the chest and Nash takes a flat back bump and Hogan pins him one, two, three. And Hogan's now the champion and the NW is back for a second time, baby. And we all know that the second time something happens is obviously the best time. Yeah, wait, wait, wait. He pokes him in the chest. Yes.

Nash falls on his back. Yes. And gets pinned making a mockery of the business entirely. Yes. And it's all just a way to get Hulk Hogan back in charge of the NWO and Nash gladly takes his his place at Hogan's side and it's Hogan and Nash and I think Lex Luger Scott Steiner and Scott Hall and Then Goldberg comes to the ring and then they taser him and then they spray paint him. So yeah

Okay, but like if you're Nash, right? Oh, and again, in the WCW, if you're not one of the top guys, you're never gonna make top guy money. Right. And then you have to top guy money. Okay, I want the Andy Goldberg streak. Okay, so Nash is high enough up. Nash is Nash is high enough up that taking a ridiculous bullshit fall like that doesn't actually hurt him financially. Correct.

Also because Nash was the head bokeh at the time. No. Fuck you. Really? Yep. you really? Yep. What? My God. Yeah. So like he's, he's worthy of the audience and they're going to pay money to see you all get your asses beat and you just spend another year dominating everyone until we figure out how to pull you down again. There are, there are so many levels on which that pisses me off. I'm not even a wrestling fan like like as a teacher of literature and stories. I'm like, you all suck somehow palpitation returned. You know what? Even somehow palpitation returned like I know enough of the backstory of the

Star Wars universe that I was able to be like, well, yeah, I mean, I know how I eat shit. Like, yeah, clones and shit, whatever. Like, okay, fine. If you're, if you're new, if you're new, new joiner to the franchise, yes, that's lazy as writing. I'm, yeah, yeah, totally. But even that is better than

finger poke Good. Well, oh my god, you got me like it wasn't that Hulk Hogan's finger poke was so powerful. It was I'm Siding with Hogan and giving him my belt. This is Andre handing the belt to Ted E. B. O. C This is not Hulk Hogan having a magic finger. This is the two of them. This is the two of them. Everyone. Everybody. Yes. Look at everybody else over. Okay, so he was part of the audience. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So it's the audience. I like it. Yeah. On all these people that paid money. I fuck you. I just want to know not a wrestling company. It's a TV company. Yeah. I just want to know

I just want to know not a wrestling company. It's a TV company. Yeah, I just want to know. How did the audience respond? Was there just like this moment of complete silence or was there this just constant booing? There was a moment of silence and then there was a ton of booing and the the NWO having reformed And there were all kinds of questions that they had to answer about it later because there were two factions at the NWO there were hamming it up like crazy To the point where it was they were making fun of the business and they were making fun of the fans for liking the business But that was the thing in the 19 late 1990s. It was a deconstructive aspect of it like all in Nash did that with the cool heel thing like you could never never bother them. If you said something, they'd be like, ooh, you know, and it, the cool heels don't make much money long term.

They certainly did for that period of time, but there's nowhere to go from. But it gets old, yeah. Yeah. So what we're saying is this is, this is all an artifact of the same kind of thing that led to this period being the Bronze Age in comics. Yes.

And everybody, everybody in there uncle being a fucking anti hero. Yes. And pouches up the wazoo and nobody being able to draw feed. Correct. Okay. So I love that. Lot of knives and like sword people showing up all over the place. Muscles on muscles.

Guns of Kimbo. Muscles like barnacles essentially. Gun knives, knives, guns. Gun knives. Gun knives. Gun knives. Gun knives. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So, Okokogen actually suffers. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. comes back in the summer of 99 as a face for the first time in three years, as a legit face, wearing the red and the yellow again, but Hogan had nagging injuries. And like I said, WCW was unraveling. And frustrated with all of the above, Hulk Hogan gets into a creative pissing match with a a booker who I'm sorry is just awful. I mean, he really was Vince Russo. And oh man, that guy sucked. I'm sorry. Some people might really like it, but I, you know, objectively, he was bad. But in June of 2000, Hulk Hogan and Vince Russo are in a pissing match. And essentially Vince Russo's approach was

smash TV, Jerry Springer, the hell out of everything. The belt is a prop. Wrestling doesn't matter. So the matches get smaller. What matters is personal vendetta's. So you get a lot more back backstage segments and you get like 40 of them through the course of a show. backstage segments and you get like 40 of them through the course of a show. And so it sounds like Vincent Russo is a is fundamentally a TV guy, yes, or the TV script writer trying to be a wrestling promoter. Well, and it's as opposed to being a wrestling promoter. He had been a writer for Vince McMahon and a booker for Vince McMahon during the attitude era. But he had a break on him.

Vince McMahon would be like, no, no, no, let's slow that down. And Vince Russo absolutely had plenty of good ideas when he had somebody. He's George Lucas. Okay, yeah, plenty of good ideas when somebody would be able to tell him no you beat me you beat me to saying it. You needed somebody to say whoa, hold up. If you look at pictures of Vincerezo, you'll find that his beard and chin are very similar to George Lucas's. He doesn't sound like Kermit the frog. Oh, see, that was going to be my question. Does he have that weird kind of, you know, but he's very New York Italian. Oh, oh, yeah. So Vince Russo was doing this angle where basically he, it is going to be hard and convoluted to explain. Basically Hulk

Hogan was part of an angle that pulled the curtain back on the business. Something that Vince Russo loved doing. So you wrote me a bad segment. You wrote me a bad match. You booked me like shit like that. Like where you're just. Yeah. So it's just throwing K-Fabe out like out of the window. K-Fabe's gone.

Yeah. And not even the shit in the ring is K-fave anymore. It just And then there would be some matches where it was and then some matches where it wasn't and it just and Russo was counting on the idea that people aren't gonna remember every 15 minutes and So and if they do Just throw tits in front of them and keep going. So Vince Russo loved pulling curtain back, loved having like wrestlers go up to guys who are nowhere and then it comes out that those guys are the writers. I mean, it's breaking the fourth wall kind of shit. You know, it's it's it's it's that moment where Rick Moranis goes, uh, he did it, you know,

after like the production isn't gets, gets slashed. Yeah. Um, so Russo loves doing this because he's a goddamn lazy writer who loved Jerry Springer more than he loved carnivals, ultimately. And Jerry Springer relies on pulling the Hortonback carnivals rely on their being a curtain. Um, so Holkogen essentially pins a wrestler named Jeff Jarrett in the middle of the ring because Vince Russo comes out and tells Jarrett on the mic, gets on the mic and tells Jarrett to lay down for Hulk Hogan. Jarrett lays down in the middle of the ring, Hulk Hogan pins it. Russo holds up the belt and just throws it in the ring at him. And and just leaves.

And Hulk Hogan grabs a mic after being awarded the match and the championship this way and said, is this your idea, Russo? That's why this company is in the damn shape. It's in because of bullshit like this and he storms out. the damn shape it's in because of bullshit like this and he storms out. The announcers were shocked because they weren't in on it and they told the audience at home that this was not a part of any production meeting. This was all supposed to be a work though. Okay, so in other words, this was not shoot. This was supposed to be K-Fave. It's so K-Fave that it's K-Fave times two like it's meta. It's stream, crossing the line, crossing the line twice.

It's Neo K-Fave, yes. Yes, that's a terminology. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So this was all supposed to be work. Then Russo goes out later and cuts a promo that goes from work into shoot territory. And the idea was because he comes out there and talks about how there's wrestlers back there who are bust in their ass and he'll be God damned if Hulk Hogan ever comes back

in this God damn ring. And on and on and how he's playing politics backstage and he's got non-compete clauses and he's got creative controlcompete clauses and he's got creative control and I can't do anything as a writer, but I'm pushing all these guys so that they can entertain you and all this. And that would have set up Hulk Hogan. And this was, this was the plan. It would have set up Hulk Hogan to come back as a real champion months later because he he had the belt, right? He left as champion. And Russo announced a match between Jeff Jarrett and Booker T to close them, to close the show. Booker T wins it if I recall correctly. Um, and Booker T is just like a huge fan favorite.

Everybody is behind Booker T. This is all cool. And we're moving forward. And the idea was that Hulk Hogan would come back after a few months and be like, you know what, Booker T, you've been a great champion, but you've never beat me. And I'm the real champion. I won that night. The guy that you beat was no longer champion, therefore. And it would have made hopefully for good TV

and good money and on and on and on. That's what it was supposed to do. Now, look at how, okay. Look at how much we have torn away from K-Fave. Look at how much Okogen and his avarice and his shittiness as a union buster and all this kind of stuff is kind of being played in front of the camera now, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

So that's how it was supposed to work. The problem was, he goes further than Hogan or Eric Bischoff thought that he would. And he says quote, this is Vince Russo says this and this is the part that goes further than Hogan. Now Hogan is on a plane with Eric Bischoff. So they don't get any cell service back in 2000 when you're 30,000 miles up. They're on a private plane flying away because they were working the boys. They were working everybody. Right? when you're 30,000 miles up. They're on a private plane flying away because they were working the boys. They were working everybody, right? So you're making it look really real. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Russo says quote, Hogan got his wish. He got his belt and he went to hell home and I promise

everybody or I'll also go in the goddamn grave. You will never see that piece of shit again. And then he goes on to say that Hulk Hogan's belt didn't mean shit. And he went on to call Hulk Hogan a bald son of a bitch. Yeah. Now Brad Siegel, who's the head of WCW at the time, told Russo not to call Hulk Hogan on Monday because he cost too much to keep in the company.

And they were going to let Hoke Hogan go. What was happening was there was a takeover of power and Ted Turner was being shoved to the side. He's the only one that really supports the wrestling. Brad Siegel is getting WCW and Turner ready for the AOL merger. Get rid of the big contracts. So Brad Seagal takes this moment to say,

don't call him, do not make nice. We're gonna let him go anyway. And that was the problem because Hulk Hogan was never seen again on WCW programming. So it looked like at the very end he did not have creative control. Now the only other person who had anything approaching creative control in about a three year span of that was at the end the last 30 days of his contract Brett the hitman heart had reasonable creative control.

In many ways this looks like a much shittier poorly produced falling the curtain back version of a screw job. pulling the curtain back version of a screw job. Yeah, it really does. It really does. And the thing was he and Russo and Bischoff and Jarrett were all supposed to be working this. And because he went too far and because Brad Siegel's like, all right, this guy costs too much money. Don't call him to come back.

Let him stay pissed. And you know what? We're just gonna stop paying that guy a lot of money. Wow. So there's a phrase. Yeah, and this is in April of 99, correct? No, no, no, this is in, I wanna say June of 2000. Oh, people of 99 he got injured, yeah.

Okay, okay, then I just want to say we missed the most significant film moment for him. Yes, we did. His most important cinema impact, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me his role as the man in black in Muppets and Space. role as the man in black in Muppetson space. Oh my God, you're right. I even mentioned Gremlins last episode, but I didn't mention Muppetson space. I am. Ah, I apologize. It's, it's geek time has been a good run, but clearly I, I've outlived my usefulness. That's why it makes me like all the puppet stuff like early episodes because I wanted to bring up him in Muppets and Space where you place a basically an FBI CIA agent who works with Bobo the bear of course. Right. Okay, now, yeah, and I can't remember it fully, but I do remember him

like wearing a suit with no sleeves. Well, of course. Well, I mean, yeah. Yeah, the Python's in a trademark. Like, come on. I also thought, I also thought when you mentioned that Rousseau sounded like Kermit the frog, I thought you were gonna lose like, oh, he left.

And then Muppet and Space came out. Nope. But then you're planning that joke. No, I completely missed it. One of the few occasions on which he did not build up that brick joke. He's the king of the brick joke, but that's an emperor level trick right there. Yeah, I apologize to everyone. I don't. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, I apologize to everyone.

I don't. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, I failed. So, so when all of this happened, and I mean, understanding that of course, every source we have for any part of this is unreliable, it's all hell. Mm-hmm. Do we know like did Hogan or anybody ever say anything

to the effect of like Hogan really thought he'd been screw jobbed or? There has been a lot of podcasts that have talked about this from the positions of the people who were there. Now you can never believe Vince Russo, you need, well, when you believe Vince Russo, you need, well, when you believe Vince Russo, you need to make sure to have a Salt Lake. Okay. Eric Bischoff is the other

direction. But Eric Bischoff has a lot more operational knowledge of things. He's a much more convincing discussion of it. But again, I would, I would keep a Salt Lake there. Jeff Jarrett himself has spoken on his podcast. And he is one to kind of, he's been through AA, I think. So he's a little bit more about telling the radical truth. It doesn't mean he won't emish or, but he has, by and large, kept, kept pretty much the same story. So those are the three that were mainly involved in it, plus Hogan, but you, I mean, you have to solve for that. I mean, nothing, there is no reality when you deal with him.

No. So, yeah, all stories seem to hover around. We meant it as a work and then it turned into a shoot. Now as a work, and then it turned into a shoot. Now, as to the point at which it turned into that shoot is the thing that's debatable, it seems. If you discount most of Hogan's account of things because you kind of have to, but based on Bishoff, Russo and Jarrett, there, there is a consensus by and large that it was a work that got turned shoot at some,

and where it broke down is what differs between all of them. Okay, and so, Bischoff, you were saying Bischoff and Hogan were on the same airplane together. Yeah, they left the event together. Okay. Bischoff and Hogan were tight. They always have. Okay. Yeah.

And yeah, then then they land and their phones have both been blown up of like, yeah, have you seen this shit? And yeah, that by the accounts that I have have chosen to believe to, you know, unleash my inner liby, by those accounts that I've chosen to agree with, it seems that it went too far. Okay.

Yeah. So, now truthfully, Holkogen was very expensive to the company. In addition to not getting a cut of the post-Mania monies, WCW, also, they paid him a $2 million signing bonus. They then, now this is a new contract that he's got, okay? So you remember before it was $250k to appear? Yeah. Okay, that was when business was fucking booming. Right.

This ship is sinking. I mean, it is, it is like if the Hindenburg hit an iceberg and landed on top of the Lucitania, like it is, it is bad, right? Yeah. Yeah. At this time, Hogan gets a $2 million signing bonus. He gets a minimum guarantee of $675,000 for every pay-per-view he's appearing on. He gets, in addition to that that 15% of all pay-per-view ticket sales for the ones that he appears on, not profit all sales. He also gets 25% of the gross ticket sales every time he appears on Monday. Nitro, anytime he's on a house show or on Thursday night, later Wednesday night thunder, with a minimum guarantee of 25,000 and 20,000 per month

for just wearing NWO shirts when he's doing promos. So if you just wear an NWO shirt, you get $20,000 per month. And then he gets $175 per DM for every day he travels. And of course, he gets creative control. What I'm saying is that Hulk Hogan was treated just a little bit less than like some school super intendants in the area. I'm exaggerating. Not by much though. No, I mean, fuck. That's that's basically what happens when you work with the muppets. I'm just saying. I mean, that's a, that's basically what happens when you work with the muppets. I'm just saying. I mean, yeah, you get that rub and, uh, exactly. So now this leads to a defamation suit by Hogan against Rousseau. Because Rousseau said in his promo, I will make sure you never see that asshole again.

And then that actually happened. And so that makes it look like Hulk Hogan doesn't have any power. And that's defamation of character. And so it also is a breach of contract suit against WCW because they were like, that was, that was going to be, that was going to be my next question. It's like, wait, they signed a contract late. Right. Uh, uh, uh. Now, whole Kogan then gets countersuit by WCW, because they say that he breached his contract

by refusing to wrestle at WCW greed in March of 2001. That's the very last pay-per-view, by the way. So they're saying, hey, we called him into a wrestle that and he refused to. And so both of those lawsuits were actually, I think all of those lawsuits got thrown out later because K Fable. Okay. Really confusing. Yeah. Now, Holkogen would come back to the WWF, not yet the WWE in February of 2002. And at this point, he's still not doing much outside of wrestling, but it's also undeniable how well known he is, right?

He comes back as a heel, bringing back the NWO, that's him and Hall and Nash, into a time where Steve Austin is kind of coming down. The rock is getting into movies, but still very much a wrestler's wrestler. And there's a bunch of other wrestlers that are doing really well. Well he brings back the NWO. This is Vince McMahon booking this by the way. And he sat, Vince had sat in on a booking meeting and straight up said, I want to hear everybody's opinion. And most people voted against bringing in the NWO, including Hogan. And Vince said, well, we're gonna do it anyway. And it's his fucking company, so there you go.

Okay. So over the objections of the booking committee, Vince McMahon brings back the NWO for what turns into an abortive attempt to recapture lightning in a bottle for a third time. And Hulk Hogan would wrestle against the rock in Toronto at WrestleMania 18 in a match that saw the fans turn Hulk Hogan face and turn the rock heel for that night. Toronto fans are weird that way. Now the last time Hogan was in Toronto, he lost to the ultimate

warrior. He was supposed to come out and wrestle as heel Hulk Hogan. But when you watch the match, if you watch the match, you have to watch it with the sound on because without the sound on us, it's kind of shit match. But with the sound on, the audience is amazing. And they cheer Hogan and boo the rock and the two of them in the ring, they call it and they're like, we need to switch roles here and they do and it's brilliant and it's so good. Well, what happens is then Vince sees what happens and so he's like, you know what? He sends the NWO down to attack Hulk Hogan or to attack the rock and Hogan beats them away. And then that turns Hogan face. And he ends up returning in the red and the yellow after that, but he keeps the black beard and keeps calling himself Hollywood at that point. And essentially, he turns his run. The NWO kind of ceases to be partly because Nash tears a quad getting into the ring. Of, yeah, Nash Nash had by the time he started wrestling. He had like 22 operations on his knees

Yeah, I'm trying to now figure out how old would Hulk Hogan be at this point. Well, he was born in 52 So we're talking 50 Yeah, yeah, and so he's been wrestling for 30 years. Yeah. Yeah. Close to 77. Yeah. Yeah. Was when he started, right? Yeah. I think he started in like 74, 75. But yeah. Okay. Close to 30 years. Sweet. Cheamy. Oh, yeah. And so how long would Nash have been wrestling? Oh, yeah. And so how long would Nash have been wrestling?

Kevin Nash started later in life. And so he started wrestling in the late 1980s. Okay. So give or take around 20 years. Yeah. He's coming up on his 20 year anniversary at that point. And so at this point, because Nash destroyed his quads, what is the worst injury that a whole Kogan received at this point? That point, let's see. I mean, his hip at this point is killing him, true. Yeah, and like he ends up having hip surgery a couple of years later, like it's okay.

It's bad. A lot of his shit's deteriorating. I think he'd already had a new reason. Well, because his signature move basically involves compressing his spine. Actually, he said that he wished he came up with a different finisher because that move has hurt him so bad. And his finisher was the leg drop, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm not doing Yeah. My back is burning just thinking about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just splashing someone would have been so much better. Yeah. But

but okay. So he goes on and nostalgia run. Yeah. The thing of folk would have but he goes on a nostalgia run. He alternates between putting over younger stars and pumping up on a nostalgia run, he alternates between putting over younger stars and pumping up people's nostalgia throughout the years, that year in 2002. The run was good for all the fun that it was, but it clearly was caching in on nothing particularly new with him. And that's that's kind of what older stars will do, although it's Hulk Hogan. Now eventually in July of 2003, Hulk Hogan quits after being frustrated with creative. Now by this point, it's Hulk Hogan. Now eventually in July of 2003, Hulk Hogan quits after being frustrated with creative. Now by this point, it's, July of 2003 is about three months after,

four months after WrestleMania 19. WrestleMania 19 is where he brawls with Vince McMahon and over like who really created wrestling and they have this great storyline that basically played out their argument that they really did have of I made you know, I made you know, I made this company know this company made you and just I mean, and they put, you know, Vince smells money. So they get really bloody together. It's, it's a slobber knocker of a match to quote J.R.

Roddy Piper shows up and hits Hogan in the head with the pipe. Uh, Hogan still manages to kick out. Uh, it's, it's a fun little match. But like by July of 2003, Hogan is like, he's like kind of floundering. He's like, I don't, you know, what are we doing here? Now, now Hogan is no longer wrestling it as Hulk Hogan at this point, by the way, because storyline wise, I think Vince McMahon had fired him for something or other. I think there was a one-legged wrestler involved. Yeah, that was a thing.

But you remember that. Hogan got dragged by the undertaker on the back of a motorcycle at one point. It's just, it's fucking weird. And it's clear he's an old old man. I love, I love by the way that this has gotten so out there that you're saying it's fucking weird. It's talking about professional wrestling. Yeah. The context of this, of this milieu, you really have to get out there to qualify. Okay. So Hogan has been fired, you know, K-fab fired. So after Hulk Hogan gets K-fab fired, Mr America comes back. And he's a fellow who wears a blue mask and blue tights and has an A on it. And he comes out to the song Real American.

He does all of Hulk Hogan's moves and he has the same tan, but he's got a mask, you see. So. I'm kind of amazed they didn't just call him nomad. Like, well done. Yeah. My dude. Yeah.

And are you telling me there's a second character who is oddly reminiscent of a Marvel character? So and by the way, WWE at that point was still paying Marvel. Like, okay, so they were hang they were paying Marvel even when whole Cogan was in contract with them right because it as long as Hogan's in wrestling not as long as he's wrestling for WWE Oh, what a really the in contract. Oh, yeah. Oh So You have the contract lawyer was for Marvel. You know the God you know the contract lawyer as he was dripping slime was just like,

oh, this is going to get me so, so good. Well, the thing that gets me is how did Marvel still almost go bankrupt? Like, you're getting $80,000 for free. Like a year. They're, they're, there were some really bad life decisions made on a corporate. Yeah, that's true. I didn't work with the mumpets. Yeah, meaning so.

But Holkogan was not happy with the money that he was getting as Mr. America. And so he quits as a results. Then it gets weird. What? No, no, you don't get to wear it again. When Hulk Hogan gets out of wrestling is when it gets weirder than wrestling a one-legged wrestler and getting dragged by the undertaker at this time, if I recall, is ticker, yeah, biker gimmick.

Yep. Yep. Yeah. What's the one thing that's weirder than professional wrestling that we have on TV? Reality TV and Hulk Hogan dips into reality TV. God, oh mother fucker really. How do I guess it? Yeah, well done. I don't know, maybe because you major in this shit.

Yeah, true. I mean, I've gotten a lot of things that Ed didn't. So, yeah, I'm feeling good about myself. You should, you should. So, yeah, he dips into reality TV. In July of 2005, VHN1 network, tired of playing music, begins a two year run of Hogan Knows Best. I remember this.

Yes, because so do I, but not fondly. I was like, I was like, a child and I was like, oh, let's watch this. And I don't know what's happening. Right. This is the same, same impetus, the same, the same, I use the word genius, but not in a traditional sense. I mean, I mean, the same thought process that led to what was the title of the show, but the MTV did the Osborne's. Yeah. Oh, that predates this. I know. Yeah. I'm saying this

is the same. This is the same. This comes from that. Yeah. draws from the same pool. Oh, my God. So, if you really think about it, though, who is the most perfect person to have on reality TV, but a guy whose life has been a blur of K-Fabe? Yeah, that's true. And that's exactly what's going to help us know the truth from fiction in a reality TV show of course. Oh my God, shit was weird, dude. I watched it and I then of course for this I watched a bunch of it again Hulk Hogan claimed on the show that he'd had his teeth knocked out six different times and that he'd had his nose broken 12 times Well, you got him beat that I do I do I've had my nose broken 21 times so the most the most recent time over the Atlantic. Yeah.

How was it? It was never near a harbor. No, it was over the Atlantic, because we hit turbulence. And I think right into the phrase that was okay. I had misremembered the story. I thought it was as you were coming in for landing. It was a funny. That's the next day finding out because I was so zoned. Oh, I'll just share with you real quick, Andrew, the story of my nose breaking. I had taken a bunch of students over to Europe and most coming back. I slept maybe three hours a night that whole time because I'm making it good for my students, right?

So it's finally we're on the plane ride back. And I mean, I had one student who was black and she kept getting singled out for, you know, security in Europe. Yeah. And so I went and stood with her and they're like, oh, you can sit down. I'm like, she's mine. I'm staying, you know, like no. Turn your anger to me if you need to, but no, good for you. So yeah. And the right thing to do. Absolutely. So, I mean, I was hyper vigilant that whole time and they had a great time and it was

wonderful and it was beautiful. So on the way back, I'm exhausted. I finally just crash out. I'm a big dude though. So I can't lean on someone. That's not fair. I can't put the trade table down and lay down because I've got a bit of a thing in the way there.

So I just put my head up on the seat in front of me like this and crashed out. Now it's not good for your atlas at all, but that's fine. No, we hit turbulence at some point over the Atlantic and suddenly we dropped. I don't know how many feet, but my head came down like this as the, and it just, and I, I didn't really wake up much. I was like, Oh, what? Whatever. I went back to sleep. That's how bone tired I was. Now I have a friend who stayed with me that night. Um, and she told me, uh, well, she told me that I slept like I, my craved sleep like I was drawing in all the sleep from around. But also at one point I turned over and my nose brushed against the pillow.

Ah! And that's when I first figured out that it broke. So I get up and I run to the bathroom because that shit hurts. And I'm feeling wet, warm all down my face and chest. I turn on the light and the problem with turning on the light when you're in a dead sleep is your eyes will not adjust ever. So I'm just like waiting for the mirror to come into focus and it never, and I just tut and I'm like, fuck it, I'm going back to sleep. And she says to me, she like, did I hit you with my elbow? I'm like, no, I'm just going to sleep now. I want to back to sleep. The next day, I'm sitting on the couch. I made sure that my kids stayed away for an extra night so that I could just

have a recovery day. I'm sitting on the couch and I touched my eyes and I'm like, oh, and I call her. I'm like, hey, did I dream this or did this happen? And she's like, oh, I thought I elbowed you. I was like, no, I think I broke my nose. And she's like, yeah, that's what you said last night, too. And I was like, she's like, how'd you do it? I was like, oh, I don't think that was a dream either. And then I recounted the tale. Now, that's the most reason I broke my nose. And you broke your nose that way 21 then I recounted the tale. Now that's the most recent. Yeah, broke my nose. And you broke your nose that way 21 times. Not that way.

No, that's the only time it came up that way. I did. Oh god. Like football games, basketball games, jujitsu kung fu, like I just have a face that people want to break. So I can confirm. Yeah.

That whole Kogan is and a lot of the breaks were like, hairline fractures. Yeah, right? So you can't do anything about that, right? But there were somewhere I was like crooked nose. And I like got to the point where I just like was resetting it myself. Yeah.

And then moving on with my day. And if you look closely enough, you do see that there's a little bit of a curve to it. But as we're speaking right now, um, uh, Damian had his head cocked to the side and his nose was straight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so there's that. But anyway, Hogan claimed to have broken his nose 12 times. I actually think that that's likely. It's rough. Yeah. Yeah. Getting your teeth knocked out six times. I think getting six different teeth knocked out, sure. But those are among the things that I would be more inclined to believe prima fascia. Six times makes sense in a long career, especially when you realize it could include chips and cracks, non-visible teeth and one at a time. The nose, absolutely, if someone potatoes you just so sure.

But other claims that he made early, so it goes on for four seasons and it stretches over three years. Now these happen to be the worst three years of Hulk Hogan's life to that point. He agreed to do the show because his daughter Brooke fancied herself in up and coming musical star. And he saw he saw this as a way to give her a bigger rub for fame. And so they played up all sorts of weird shit about how he was protective and his relationship with his wife and how spoiled his son was. And in his memoir, and I don't know if it's a memoir on a biography, Hulk Hogan admitted that there were certain things that work and

thrived because Union rates for filming his whole life to find TV where the content would be too expensive. And this makes plenty of sense. The amount of K-Fabe that seemed to go on with the episodes was way too much, even for clever editing. Now, yeah, I was a child when this show was happening. And I remember seeing bits and pieces. Sure. How involved of cave faith was it to the point like his wife referred to him as

Hulk? What did she refer to? Terri, she called Terri, but everybody around called him. And this is a thing that wrestlers do. Now, one of his best friends down there at that time living in Tampa. A lot of wrestlers live in that area by the way. But one of his friends down there is Brian knobs of the nasty boys. And he's kind of a sync of fan to Hogan and there were several episodes in which he was featured. Um, he calls him Hulk Hulk.

It's it's a not uncommon thing to call somebody by their gimmick name if you've worked with them. It's just how it goes. Um, so I mean, again, the blurring of it is so much because I mean, reality TV itself is K-Fade. Yeah, you know, so it just so happened to coincide with his real life Having both peaks and valleys like I said deep fucking valleys for instance while he was doing that show Vince McMahon called and said how would you like to be inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2005? It's a 20th 20th WrestleMania would be perfect

This leads to a short run through summerlam actually and it was a pretty cool run. But also as the next two years were on, Hulk Hogan's marriage ended, his son got into a horrid racing and underage drinking accident, which severely brain damaged a family friend. Hulk Hogan cheated on his wife with a good friend of his daughters and Linda cheated on Hogan with a former high school classmate of their son and daughter. Yeah. The show and wow. Everybody's the asshole. Yes.

Yes. Well, everybody is maladaptive as fuck. Oh, yeah. OK. The show ended due to this tremendous maelstrom of holy fucking shit. Hulk Hogan. Cause if you look and don't,

you nobody needs to look this up, but if you look up the friend of Nick Hogan, Hulk Hogan's son, and the car accident that they got in, it is horrifying. It is, it is horrifying. It is awful. It is the stuff of nightmares. It makes what happened to Brutus beef cake seem tame. Yeah. It's bad.

My mom, when I was like driving like 17, 18, when I was in high school, there was times where I would just be driving and hang out with friends and I don't text my mom in a timely manner. And one day she just took me to the side and I need you to respond to me and she actually showed me that article.

Oh wow. Yeah, and she's like this. And this is what I'm thinking. And his best friend, I think his name was John, was a veteran of the ongoing war at the time. So there's all kinds of shit going on there. So the show ends. Hulk Hogan goes to Memphis territory again, or an abortive attempt to finally wrestle

against Jerry Lawler. That doesn't work. And then he goes to Australia for a run of his own show called Hulkomania, which essentially hired a whole bunch of people that he used to fight in wrestle. And it always ended with him and Rick Flair in main events, spilling a lot of blood. So then, it's old men wrestling though, like it's really, I mean, sad. Yeah, I mean, it would be like, it's a geriatric league. It is. And at this time, Hogan's back is killing him.

His hip is killing him. You are watching, you are watching. You're watching. I can't even compare it to like old bands playing at like a casino, because at least they still have the chops. Well, I would say, yeah, kind of, but, but maybe it's like the comparison roses. I was going to say the rolling stones. No, because the stone stain shape. That's true. Axel. Yeah.

Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel.

Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. Axel. see that the six pistols were boy band to begin with. So they were fake punk band always. Well, and I would back I'm gonna just say this. Nickelback is more punk than sex pistols. Wow. And that's something that I've said for years. Okay. Oh, I would say it would be like reading a a manifesto by by Johnny Rotten or. Okay. Yeah. That's fair. Either way, Australia finally got to see Hulkamania. That's cool. Cool for them. It's, you know, it is what it is. In 2009, Hulkamania diet. Yeah. You know, the which version of Hulkamania, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

So in 2009, Hulk Hogan has an nostalgia run in TNA in which he ruined the shit out of everything good for that company. Um, and he opened the door for others to continue to kick that corpse for years to come. It was really sad. And I'm kind of resentful of it because they had some good shit going on in TNA. TNA, by the way, was named by Vince Russo a total non-stop action. Yeah, now Vince Russo, he worked with Jeff Jarrett a lot and again, when he's got a break on him, he does decent work. But there were a lot of problems with TNA in general, but there was a lot of good about TNA right around the time. Hulk Hogan came in. Hogan came in with Eric Bischoff as on screen characters.

They were getting paid by Spike TV, whereas the others were getting paid by TNA wrestling. Um, so it was different. Um, and they immediately, like really legitimately redid the Montreal screw job as an angle for Kurt Angle to to lose. They redid the NWO takeover. They changed the ring from being a six sided ring to a four sided ring. So now it's much more similar to any other wrestling. All the developing talent were shoehorned into different storylines and then rushed toward the titles. So it looked like he

was trying to help talent get over. And the whole thing was a big fucking mess. There were, yeah. I just remembered a lot about TNA mainly because like, a lot of it was like, we're gonna do WWE stuff or WWF stuff, but twist it around. And the one that I still laugh about is that they tried to redo Stone Cold Steve Austin as a masked shark themed wrestler.

Oh, Shark Boy. Shark Boy. No, that was absolutely a send up of it. And I still maintain that it is some of the best, best character work I've ever seen. I love TNA like I love some Ojo and like all I love the curry man. Curry man. Curry man was great. He was.

But like the funniest thing for me was with a shark boy was instead of like cracking beers. He cracked clam juice. Yeah. Oh, it was, it was so good at you. Oh my God. It was great. And he would do the headwaggle and the fish in line because shark boy said so. And it's all nothing but like fishing and fish puns and it was great. They even had like a pike street brawl.

Um, yep. Where they're hitting each other with fish. And so good. It was beautiful. It was one of my, he was one of my favorite characters. Okay, wait, wait, sorry. Pike street brawl. Yeah. Was it in Seattle? It better be. But it was set up. Yeah. Okay. But like, I mean, they had just rows and rows of fish.

And of course, they're, you know, flounder jokes and all kinds of. Oh, it was so good. Fighting against them that that was him and Curryman versus team 3D. The, yeah, the Dudley boys. They were on there. Oh, it's so good. It was so good. So he ruins TNA a whole bunch. And there were a lot of Vince Russo like storylines.

There were back backstage shit all over the place, right? Ownership issues, backroom deals, and not so much in the ring. Good stuff, which is what TNA did. And there was this before, was this before or after sting was in TNA? No, this is well after. He's there still. Okay. While they're doing this, this is before he was, no, this is right around the time he turned into Joker sting. So, yep. So, yeah, because he did that. joker sting. So yeah, so yeah, because he did that. Um, but I'm remembering. Hogan at one point even criticized WWE for not doing in ring stuff.

And he swore that TNA, which he would now call impact wrestling would be all about the wrestling, which is cool. Awesome. I'm tuning in. Here we go. Cause there are some really good fucking wrestlers there, right? The next episode, we saw 45 minutes of not wrestling before anything happened in the ring On a two-hour show like it's like god damn it And for the much of the next couple years Hulk Hogan and the old guys dominated the main events putting themselves ahead of a younger talent who'd actually developed TNA And many of whom ended up leaving for Japan, bring a vonner and even the WWE. Yeah.

So that's, I know. Yeah, going on. I'm trying to think of other wrestlers. I know, I think that was the time that's AJ Styles. Chris Jericho left and then went to the WWE afterwards after this whole debacle. Jericho never went to TNA, you're thinking of Christian. I'm thinking of Christian, you're right. Yeah, they both begin with C, Christian.

Yeah, Chris. Chris, Canadian, and they had a tag team together going for a little while and WWE. That's true. Yeah, Canadians all look at it. That's true, my dad's Canadian, and he looks exactly like Bret Hart. And Chris Jericho. Yeah. I'm remembering CM Punk went into TNA for a bit. He was there at the very beginning and then he had an issue with Teddy Hart. Yeah. And it was a legit issue that they tried to make

something out of and it didn't work and CM Punk went to a ring of honor after that. And he had some really good matches with Samoa Joe and Samoa Joe bounced out for a while. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a who's who of Hasbins and not yets, who end up being some of the most famous wrestlers in the world. Like half the bullet club came through TNA. The young bucks started in TNA or maybe not started but got their first real exposure in TNA.

My favorite were the Motor City machine guns. They were fantastic. Oh, I love them. They're so good. They were great. Yeah. So so much potential completely wasted. Hogan made a lot of money there, though. And that's where I'm going leave this episode, actually. So, what is everybody leaned? What have we all learned? Hogan ruins everything. Okay. Hulk ruins, like, just the rules. Yeah.

I mean, it's just kind of weird seeing him kind of go in kind of like, we're seeing the slow decline for him. And it could be like him losing his age and media appearances. New young bucks coming in his age, all this stuff. Yeah. Well, there was, there was one moment where you, you mentioned talking about the the NWO that he that he was doing is that he was doing his whole thing with his fake retirement from the NWO after that had petered out true and it was and it was on it was on the downward slide and WCW was

downward slide and WCW was like, you know, disintegrating rapidly, you know, and the whole network was being bought out by AOL. You know, and, and one of the things that I find interesting is Hulk or Terry Belayer, however we want to call him, has this on the one hand, has this genius for manufacturing his persona and controlling his persona. But he doesn't seem to have a gift for knowing, okay, I'm at the top and now I'm going to get out. He is riding every time. I'm going to challenge you on that because that reminds me of people's critique of Jim McMahon, the, the quarterback from the Chicago Bears, the 85 bears.

Right. The bears, the bears. Yeah. He was a champion. And then after that, he ends up being a third stringer on the Vikings for a while and she'll let that I think he ended up in the practice team. And why the hell wouldn't you? You're still making money. You're still making money hand over fist. Yeah, even though it's not your peak earning.

Yeah, you're still feathering your nest and so Shouldn't he like he's more But did he work it is it it is it yeah Man did not work the man did not work with the mob it's true But anyway, so yes, Hogan did not leave at his peak. You're absolutely right. I don't think that he's obligated to well I'm not I'm not yeah, I'm not trying to say that he's obligated to. I guess what I'm saying is there is a patina that accumulates over your reputation, over your persona, over your name, when you linger in the public eye after your prime. Yeah. And for somebody who is so savvy about his persona and somebody who seems to be so protective of his persona. Right. I find it interesting that whatever his impetus, whatever his internal motivation was, he wasn't able to let go. Like he was, he was, he, he, for a savvy as he was, he seems to have lost grip of it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of what strikes me. He's going and he's doing, as you say, old man wrestling in Australia. He's going and he's creating the situation in TNA where he and a bunch of other old guys that are writing his coat tails because he's the biggest name. He's literally the dimey old. You know they're all there and they're you know sucking all the air out of the room for younger wrestlers. And part of the whole whole code and ruins everything is whole code isn't able to let go of being Hulk Hogan.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So I mean, that's, that's, that's, that's my, my addition to that. Cause I'm seeing the same thing Andrew's seeing, but my, my, my twist on it, I guess, is that, that I'm also like to me, it seems weird that, that, that this is the way that's manifesting. It's, yeah, it's going to get sadder. Just so you know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm going to agree with this. I'm just going to add this.

I feel like this is kind of like in a boomer thing, an old person thing in a lot of ways, like holding on to the past as long as you can. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I fully agree there. I also would say that there is something more selfish to it than just the emotional that it is. Especially with his voice. He makes the most money. Yeah, especially expensive others. Yeah. I mean, it kind of goes back to his, that last WrestleMania he appeared in in a lot of ways. Who started it? Who is at Vince or was it Hulk? Right.

And him staying in it, I feel like it's kind of like it's me. And he's holding onto it as long as he can. Also, that's K-Fabe and a good way to make money though. Like it's a storyline. Yeah, true. You know, he's not insisting on made eventing. You know, so, but I still think, you know, and pulling on real stories is a way to get money

as well and get a payday. So, there's a pecuniary aspect that's also important. We saw him do this time and time again. Jesse Ventura talked about a union. Hogan stueled them out. You know, Hogan, you know, he's at the top of the game forever. And then when he's not, he comes back for WrestleMania 9 and make sure that he ends as the champion taking money out of the mouth of both Brett and Yokozuna. And then he leaves kind of not with a bang but with a whimper. Then he comes into WCW and I mean, he does a great, great business for a while. And then as it ups and flows, he makes sure he gets his bag and then then bounces. And he does the same thing in T-Nate. Like he keeps again, it's just like he's a, he's a hippopotamus.

He shits everywhere so that everybody knows what he smells like. And now he gets to fuck all the other hippopotamus. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And on that colorful ecological note, yeah. What are people reading? Andrew, why don't you start for us?

What are my reading? Yeah. Nothing really. I've been just focusing on developing courses and stuff like that. I teach next week for summer. Actually, I'm teaching now for my online course at my old school I used to work at and next week I start teaching on my university I attend now. Continue playing tiers of the kingdom. That's great. It's so much fun. I haven't progressed. I've just been goofing around so much.

Cool. Ed, what about you? What are you going to recommend? Um, I'm going to recommend the first of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. Okay. Um, the, the whole series gets like way too bonkers way too fast. Um, because where do you go from, from the plot points of the first film? but

Yeah, it's just You go to depths of people cannot fathom You feel the pressure on all these characters. Yeah, I'm just trawling. Yeah. Yeah, all right. Okay Well done. Thank you. Um, but yeah, the first one, the first one is just a fun movie. It's not. It's not a big deal. Cinematically, but it's yeah, I highly recommend take take the time to rewatch it and and and look at the way the plot twists work out because it's actually very cleverly put together. So that's my recommendation, I'll you. I'm gonna recommend Guy Evans' Nitro, the incredible rise in inevitable collapse

of Ted Turner's WCW. It is a really long fucking read, but it is a really good journalistic exploration of all the documentation that was happening, all the memos, all the shit. And like Eric Bischoff looked at it, he was like, yeah, I know this is good. at it, he was like, yeah, this is good.

In fact, he ends up collaborating with Guy Evans to write another book later. But it gets into the weeds in a lot of ways about the fall of WCW. So very cool. I mean, anything that shows like any media or literature, whatever that helps shows a failure of a billion, or a millionaires is good for me.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And on that, Andrew, where do you want people to find you if you want to be found? Hey, you can follow me on a TikTok at prof.suds. You can find me on Twitter granted. I just deleted the Twitter app for the 12th time this month. Follow me on Instagram, and I plan to start a YouTube channel soon. So there's that. Cool. Ed, you don't normally want to be found, but where can we be found? We collectively can be found at weba, weba, weba.geekhistorytime.com.

Also, we are still on Twitter at Geek History Time. And you are listening to us. So that means that you've found us either on the Stitcher app or the Apple Podcast app, either way or on the website. However, you have found us please take a moment to subscribe, give us the five stars that you know, certainly this evening Andrew earned us with his, with his trenchant commentary and, and just knowing shit. Um, and so yeah, that's, that's where, that's, that's where we can be found. Uh, and you, Mr. Harmony, where can you be found? Uh, you want to see me live, then you should come up to Sacramento, uh Sacramento on July 7th.

You probably will have missed that by 10 this years. August 4th, September 8th, or October 6th, or capital punishment. Bring $10, come to the door, bring another $10 for merch, and sit down and shout stuff out and enjoy the hell out of the puns. Is a whole Colgan getting a cut of the merch? No, but Marvel does. Ah, amazing. So there you go. There you go.

No, just a half-cogan, not a whole Cogan. Okay. And with that, Andrew Sutherland, thank you so much for joining us for this show. For a geek history of time, I'm Damien Harmony and I'm Ed Blatt. Hey, Locke. And until next time, keep rolling 20s.