A Geek History of Time - Episode 271 - Why Obi Wan Can Only Move Diagonally Part I

Episode Date: July 5, 2024

Okay, so there are two possibilities going on here. One, you're bringing up a term that I have never heard before. The other possibility is that this is a term I've heard before but it involves a language that uses pronunciation That's different from Latin it and so you have no idea how to say it properly an intensely 80s post-apocalyptic Schlock film and schlong film, you know, it's been over 20 years, but spoilers Okay, so so the Resident Catholic thinking about that. We're going for low Earth orbit. There is no rational. Blame it on me after.

And you know I will. They mean it is two o'clock in the fucking morning. Where I am. I don't think you can get very much more homosexual panic than that. No. Which I don't know if that's better. I mean, you guys are Catholics. You tell me. I'm just kind of excited that like you and producer George will have something to talk about

That basically just means that I can show up and get fed This is a Geek History of Time. Where we connect to the real world. My name is Ed Blaylock. I'm a world history and English teacher here in Northern California. And previously we've had episodes where I've been sharing some development in my life and how incredibly bougie that feels. And I've had to be reassured by our guests that I am in fact still a member of the proletariat And this isn't gonna be another one of those evenings

Because since the last time we were recording My wife and I have gotten a new refrigerator and this one has a built-in ice maker and And like you know it seems like such a stupid thing but My god what a world of difference it makes like like like so it's so stupid how much how much? Like how much simpler so many things become My in-laws are here right now and Just having enough ice for everybody to have ice in their drinks without having to constantly refill fucking ice trays.

It's the dumbest thing and it's so modern problems. But my God, it's awesome. Also this new refrigerator doesn't leak water all over the kitchen floor. So that's a definite bonus. So how about you? What have you got going on? Well I'm Damian Harmony. I'm a US history teacher at the high school level up here in Northern California and I weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks ago you reported something similar. I took my kids to Disneyland recently. For the first time they've ever been, my brother came out, used all of his connections to make it just like the most

amazing and affordable Disney trip ever. It was phenomenal. It was incredible. We built our own lightsabers. Uh, and today I said, uh, I told you, I said, Hey, show me yours and I'll show you mine and you sent me a picture of yours and yours looks very Catholic. It looks, I mean, there should be a Salter next to it. Like it is so incredibly Catholic. Yeah. And then I showed you mine and it was the exact same, like not a single, not a single different, different. Yeah.

And then I find out that you, you chose during your build while I went with the blue, but I made sure I bought a yellow and I went with the blue and made sure I went with the yellow. And I just want to ask, did you name yours yours Bobby Watson? Cause I named mine Bobby Watson too. No, I haven't actually, I haven't actually given mine a name yet. I'm referencing the soprano where they spend five minutes next to each other. Oh yeah.

I doubt they they were on the same car on the same train going to the same space. Happen to be at the same place. They both have the same child, because they're in fact married. They live in the same flat and on and on. And then the narrator comes on and says, point of fact, it's an odd coincidence because while this one's Bobby Watson has one blue eye and one green eye,

the other one, they're Bobby Watson is a mirror image. And so they're actually not related and this is all a fantastic coincidence. I mean, it's ENS go at its finest, but yeah, but Okay, you are a converted Catholic. Yes an adult convert to Catholicism. Yes Yes, I am as anti theistic as it gets. Yes, and I have long said that while I continue keening leftward in my public and political life, I have always been a deeply conservative and dogmatic person personally.

Yes. You know, I'm never going to legislate for everyone else my tastes, but like I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs. You know, I'm just very, know, very straight edge very like and and and in many other ways too Like I'm like no everybody else should be sexually libertine do whatever the hell they want however, they want as long as I'm sending partner and I had one person once asked me hey, do you have any kinks and I was like, yes informed dignified consent And that was it.

Like there's no there there. You know, I'm like Obi-Wan Kenobi. I'm like, I learned the one form and I'm really good at that form. You know, it's like, that's it. And yet we still both like have the exact exact same lightsaber like you could not have planned it if we tried to plan it We would have fucked up would have yeah, we would have completely screwed it

But it is exactly the same and it is all the same part all the same all the same parts including starting crystal and Purchased purchased crystal because I mean, you know, come on temple guardian. Like come on I don't even and then like you said we got to the same spot through different paths Because I mean, you know, come on Temple Guardian, like come on, how can you not pick that up? Like you said, we got to the same spot through different paths. I don't subscribe to the colors mean different things canon, even though it's canon,

because I came up under the old laws of it's whatever crystal called to you, and sometimes the color was just coincidental. I prefer that, but I chose yellow. I chose yellow because the toy, the original toy of Luke Skywalker was yellow. And I've always, like in every character that I've played that's been a Jedi, I've always sought out

to have a yellow blade. Okay. Because I've just always deeply been like like that was imprinted upon me Even though the movies were blue and I love the blue. I have to pick the blue when I was there, you know Yeah, yeah. Yeah doesn't matter. Like I still sought out as soon as I heard that they had the yellow I was like getting the yellow. Oh Yeah, yeah Yeah, it, it's,

it's interesting that our, our respective moralities are not, are almost in lockstep. Like our ideas about, you know, how, how people ought to interact with the people around them and all of that are, are like, we're, we're very, very close on all of those points. And it's, it's, again, we get to the same place kind of through different paths, right? You know, and, and speaking of paths and the fact that, you know,

our lightsabers are, yeah, I see that you have, yeah, now, now Damien is mocking me by showing off, uh, the, uh, Ray lightsaber, uh, Hilt that he also picked up. Yeah. Um, but you were saying, yeah, I was saying, um, I was saying, uh, speaking of us, us both having wound up with, you know, the, the most Holy Avenger style lightsaber Hilt possible.

What I actually want to talk about today is Kenobi, the, the Disney series. Oh, wow. Okay. And, you know, we've, we've talked about several of the other Disney Star Wars series. Yes through different as expressions of different political ideologies Yeah using different lenses to analyze them. Yeah. Yeah, and this time

I want to take a look at Kenobi specifically through a Catholic lens, um, I want to take a look at Kenobi specifically through a Catholic lens. Okay. Um, and we'll get to like where this idea came from and why later on, but there's a lot of stuff in Kenobi that, um, as, as we mentioned, an adult converted to Catholicism, I was watching the whole thing, like throughout the whole series going, yeah, I'm going to have to do an episode on this. I can't not. First of all, the Jedi in Star Wars, throughout Star Wars, are built all around Jedi Geki genre ideas. Mm-hmm. You know this concept of wandering swordsman

And it's all of these trips from Japanese cinema sure And the thing is there's a whole wagonload of cultural ideas and assumptions baked into their DNA That remain kind of uncalled on baked into their DNA that remain kind of uncalled on. Um, you know, when, when you take those wandering swordsman tropes specifically out of that genre and that milieu, like if you look at those movies,

if you look at seven samurai and, um, and I'm forgetting other, other titles, but if you look at those other films, yeah. Um, and, uh, Yojimbo. Yeah. Yojimbo is probably the most obvious example. Yeah. Very much. Yeah. If you, if you look at those films, there is all of this cultural context surrounding who these protagonists are and why they make the choices they make and what their morality is, what their ethics are. And in Star Wars, all of that background stuff largely remains kind of in the background and it remained or not even in the background it remains untethered to anything okay if

that makes sense a little more actually but just let me just ask this is not a reprieve or a redo or a sure so I don't fucking know what it's called Okay of of episode 31 where you talked about the Jedi Buddhism and counterculture. This is no, okay No, no, no, I'm touching different. I'm touching on these this idea. Okay kind of as an opener Okay, I'm gonna be moving on past it What I'm what I'm saying here is that? When we first learn about the Jedi Knights and when we first see moving on past it. What I'm, what I'm saying here is that, um, when we first learn about the Jedi Knights and when we first see in, you know, the first part of the Holy Holy trilogy in episode four, um,

there is all of this aesthetic. There is all of this, as I mentioned in episode 31, there's all this kind of quasi Buddhism kind of kind of you know Crackerjack box kind of Buddhism going on a good way to put it That's not then that never gets like never gets developed it never You know, it's on the cutting room floor of people's minds or something. Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good metaphor. I like that, yeah. So this is also not a reprieve, reprisal, reproachment, de nemoire. Reprise.

Reprise of episode 67 through 70, what the Jedi could have been. No. Okay. This is not. Just making sure that, okay. So this is the third time you're tackling Jedi. You're creeping up on my

Amount of times I've done episodes dedicated to wrestling. Yeah. Well, you know Which good for you good for you. Well, you know, I'm the designated Paladin in every D&D campaign I play in right much and so this is like the cinematic the closest cinematic you know, avatar of that, you know, that's, that's had this kind of long running kind of role in the culture. So it's, yeah, I'm coming back to the well a bunch of times. But so, so we, we have, we have, you know, the Jedi is there originally, uh, depicted and all of, all of the context that I've, that I've talked about in episode 31 and that episode, you said 67? 67 to 70.

Okay. 67 to 70. Um, like all of that stuff is there, but, but all of that, as you said, you know, all that kind of context lies on the, on the cutting room floor. And the other half of that equation is that the Jedi are the brainchild of an American boomer from central California and Northern Canada, depending on how you want to define it, who is skimming title headings from a comparative religion text on Buddhism, when he codified their outlook and belief system.

And as a result, the philosophy of the force, as I've talked about, is astonishingly poorly developed for a religion that's supposed to be thousands of years old. Right. And I have here in- For a thousand generations, so it's 20,000 years. Yeah. Yeah. And as I have in my notes, I've ranted about this before, most pointedly in episode

31, Jena Buddhism and Counterculture, and this episode isn't about that though. Real quick, we drove through Modesto to get to Disneyland from where we are. I pointed out to my daughter, I was like, hey, we're in Modesto. We're at a rest stop. And she said, okay. And I said, this is, and I pointed out to my daughter and my son, I'm like, this is where George Lucas lived when he was a kid. And she looked around and she said, Oh, no wonder he became a writer. This is really boring. If there's a bright center of California, this is the point farthest from it.

Right. I'm actually that's wrong. That's Fresno. Um, sorry, but yeah. Wow. Yeah. Always. I swear to God. Like do you intentionally give her pognards to like thrust at the point? We don't like I don't uses um yeah, I do them good God Like all right, that's that's a point for you there kid. I holy cow. Yeah took down a whole town. Yeah Not wrong um anyway So It's not wrong. Um, anyway,

so, uh, but I said this episode isn't about that though, but it kind of sort of is because the lack of depth present in the source material means that it's ridiculously easy to overlay other lenses on top of it. If I wanted to write about the Catholic interpretation of say, yo Jimbo or the seven samurai, I'd have to spend almost as much time parsing Buddhist versus Christian ideas as I would fanboying about Toshiro Mifune, which would be fully half of the episode by itself. The main character of Yojimbo is a cynical opportunist who winds up doing the right thing despite himself. And the spirituality running through the background of the seven samurai is so

Buddhist. It hurts. Sure. Um, like legitimately Buddhist, like the way that stories in the West are Christian, whether or not they intend to be right because the culture is just permeated by it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And the Jedi can't be as permeated by Buddhism as that because Lucas didn't actually do of the assigned reading on comparative religion one-on-one. And so as a lover of the Jedi Geki genre and a comparative religion nerd, this drives me just up the fucking wall. and a comparative religion nerd, this drives me just up the fucking wall. But as the resident Catholic on this podcast, this is kind of a godsent because holy cow,

Kenobi has some deeply Christian and I think specifically fairly Catholic ideas Going on beneath the surface of a story about a ninja space wizard with deep trauma Okay, okay and This is where We we jump Into the history of things We begin in the desert Not Tatooine,

but the Skeeties desert in Egypt in the third century AD. Wow. Oh, um, I mean, I think I've still got you because I've gone to BC, but well done. Thank you, sir. Now in this context, I'm going to use AD on O Domini rather than common era, because I'm specifically speaking of issues around the Christian faith, so it feels appropriate to me. Seems right. Yeah.

Sometime around the year 270 AD, a young man, Anthony, followed Christ's exhortation in Matthew 19, 21 through 24 by giving away the land he had inherited to the poor and sending his unmarried younger sister into the care of a group of consecrated virgins. He did this in order to then go out into the desert to live separated from society. Whether or not his sister wanted to dedicate her virginity to God isn't mentioned anywhere in Anthony's hakiography. Interestingly enough, but by the standards of the third century church, this was the best thing Anthony could have done for her while still following the

Lord's admonition. Okay. Okay. Um, now to, to frame where we are in the history of the church, the first council of the church is the council of Jerusalem, circa 48 to 50, somewhere in that range. And it was at the council of Jerusalem that Paul did, in my opinion, the best thing he did for Christianity and that established the rules for Gentile Christians. So prior to the council of Jerusalem, there was this very, very big disagreement within the early faith about, do you need to be a Jew to be a follower of the Christ? Oh, right. Right. Okay.

And so there was all of this backing and forthing between the surviving apostles and the early bishops of the church that they had ordained, um, about whether Christians had to follow the dietary laws, whether Christians had to be circumcised, right? Um, whether you had, if you were a Roman or a Greek or a whatever, did you have to convert to Judaism before you could then convert to Christianity? And this was a really big deal. And Paul is the one who came to the council and it was essentially Paul kind of facing off against Peter as the leaders

of the two kind of halves of this debate. Tell me that Mary was in the middle of them. I really, really wish I could, but I don't know. That'd be great. It would be, it really would be. And the- Then you'd have like the mamas and the papas of the church. Of the church, yeah, literally.

And then they'd be like, fuck you, Essenes, you guys are just down on the beaches, boys. And then- Nice, nice. You know, I'm not even mad. No, nor should you remarkably enough. It's my, my ability to recall your history, your liturgical history has always gotten me out of you getting mad when I miss

this is true. Yeah. So, um, and, and Paul is the one who basically, uh, depending on, depending on how you want to view it, um, as a, as a believer, uh, Paul showed up and expressed what he had to say. And the Holy Spirit spoke to everybody and indicated, no, this is, this is really what Jesus meant. And the, the council adjourned with the decision that, no, you don't have to become a Jew to become a Christian. And as a Christian, you don't have to follow kosher dietary laws. Okay. So we're now accepting new members. Yes, yes.

And this is really the moment where Christianity breaks away from Judaism. Theologically and culturally and historically, legally, whatever you wanna call it. It becomes not just a chosen people's religion, it is now a cosmopolitan religion, potentially. Yes, yes. Right, because all you gotta do is accept Christ, right?

So do that part, and you can skip all the other stuff that all the rest of us have had to do because he started with us. Yes, correct. Okay, got it. Yeah, he has completed the law. He has redeemed everybody universally. He has come to redeem everyone, not just this one chosen group of people.

This coupon now works for everyone. Yes. Yes. And, I think this is the best thing that Paul did for the faith. Personally, I wish he hadn't gotten his prudish millenarian cop mitts all over it so much for the rest of it, but that's just me. Um, you know, uh, and like, like the conversation we had, you know, off air, uh, a couple of, a couple of weeks ago, you, well, okay. You gotta remember Paul was a cop, like, you know, asexual cop.

If I recall correctly. Yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. So. OK, so this is pointed out by Dan McClellan in his in his awesome stuff on on YouTube and TikTok. Yeah. Now, so OK, so that was the Council of Jerusalem that was in the 40s or 60s,

right? Somewhere between 48 and 50. 80. Yeah. So it's before. um, oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. This is before the temple of Masad, right? That's, that's before the, I might be mixing up names. It's before the one where I think it was Claudius just slaughtered the shit out

of the Judeans. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. This is, this is before, this is before the, the destruction of the second. Yes. Okay. Yeah, this is yes. So, so at this time then, like the connections to the history of Judaism are, are vibrant and strong and somewhat localized. Like people would come to this place. Yes.

And the Romans hadn't ethnically cleansed them as much as they would. Yeah. Like they didn't rebuild, they didn't take apart the temple and then build a coliseum out of it. Not yet, no. Not yet, okay.

That's 70 to 80 is when that opens Yeah, still another another 30 years or so out No, no, no, that's um 78 to 80. We're in 48 to 50. Oh Yeah, yeah, okay. So yeah, it's about it's gonna do math. It's okay Don't don't worry about it but remember for those in the audience who don't know the theology or the theological history of all this quite as well, Paul started out as a member of the Sanhedrin who were the Jewish temple police essentially to oversimplify. And part of the thing was the Romans had effectively kind of made a deal with the temple authorities

in Judea. They had said, okay, look, you can have your weird monotheistic religion. That's fine. We're not going to require you to make sacrifices to Caesar, you know, and all this other stuff, but like you better tow the fucking line, right? Yeah, there was there was a lot of Okay, here's if you're gonna do this shit. Here's what you got to do Like you yeah, we understand that your God is is you know, like we don't get it

But in order to help you get around it So that you don't fuck it up for the rest of us because that's how the Romans saw the God stuff. It was all contracts. Yeah. It is all performative. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so you have to ask your God to bless our emperor and we'll call it good. Like we don't like it, but okay. It's okay. Right. As long as you, as long as you don't say anything theological that's going to cause trouble for our authority. Right. We're cool. And for our gods to be pissed at us about something happening where you are.

Yeah. Like, Yeah. So I do love that the Romans concept of the gods is look It's a teenager with a high-powered gun and emotional problems We just need we don't like playing music either, but okay, but he wants the music It's just easier. He wants the priests of Aries to do this dance Always remember them just being like soul trained, like, you know, where they do the lineup at the end. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But like, you know, we, we just, let's all just be chill. Okay. We just gotta stay, just stay cool. Right. Yeah. Well, so this uppity guy from Galilee shows up and, and supposedly, you know, uh, comes back from the dead. Sure. And all of a sudden there's this one sect of, of Jews who are saying all kinds of shit that like, that's not cool, man. That's, that's really not cool.

And so the Romans went to the temple authorities and went, you need to crack down on these motherfuckers. Right. Don't make us come down there. Don't make us come down there. Right. So that was, that was Paul's job until he got stoned off his ass. Yeah. I like that. I like that. We saying fell off his donkey landed on his ass Yeah, and you know became the 13th apostle, you know, the fifth beetle whatever you want to call it Well, I would like to say the fifth monkey because now he's a believer because I saw his face It's all right that why are you persecuting, you know, yeah, yeah not a ounce of doubt in my mind

Yeah and so and then and then You know wound up introducing a whole lot of stuff, you know all of his letters and all his stuff There's all of this Well, you know, there's the earthly authority and we got to pay attention to the earthly authority and we got it stuff. There's all of this. Well, you know, there's the earthly authority and we got to pay attention to the earthly authority and we got to, and it's like, okay, because Hey, Jesus is coming back soon guys. Well, yeah, it's cool. Yeah.

There's the, the militarian part cannot be stressed enough there. Uh, also the asexual part really can't be stressed enough. Like y'all can hold off on fucking for 40 years. JC's coming back. Yeah. Like it's cool. It's right around the corner. It's right around the corner. Yeah. Any minute now. Any minute now. Any day now I tell you. So it's like that scene in Beetlejuice where they expect them to run out of the house. Yeah. Any minute now. Any minute now. Yeah. Yeah. Precisely that. Yeah. So, okay.

So he becomes the 13th warrior. Yeah. Learns to speak Viking. I'm spending so much time in purgatory for this, but worth it. So chose it. Yeah, I know. And I'll take the hit. That's fine. So, so the council of Jerusalem establishes all of this in call it 50 AD. So Anthony went into the desert around 270. He's kind of like the first ischetic monk, right? There were, I'm going to get into it. There were, there were others before him,

but he's, he's very much within Christianity. The trope caught a fire. Right. So, um, so Anthony goes into the desert in 270 to give you an idea of just how early in the faith we're still talking about this being, uh, Diocletian, emperor at Diocletian ordered a new persecution of Christians in three Oh three. Right. Uh, and this was the last and most severe program of persecutions of the faith under Roman law Right now from from time to time over the course of this first couple of centuries

Like there were periods where the Romans were like, whatever we don't care. It's a small group out in the middle of nowhere Whatever, you know, right. It's a it's a religion of slaves and widows who cares, right? Oh, I mean you had had Trajan, specifically getting letters from Pliny the Younger when Pliny was out in Bithynia, which he would die in Bithynia, by the way, and he was out there and he's like, man, this place fucking sucks, but I'm gonna be a good bureaucrat.

And there were Christians and he's like, we gotta try them, we gotta test them, we gotta do all this stuff. We gotta deal with this. And he writes a letter back to Trajan, and Trajan's right back to's like, we got to, we got to try them. We got to, we got to test them. We got to do all this stuff. We got to deal with us. And he writes a letter back to Trajan and Trajan is right back to him. Like, yeah, sure. You're doing great. This is good.

But just calm down. Calm, just calm. Look, as long as, and my favorite part is like, cause I used to teach this particular letter. Oh wow. Okay. Yeah. It was great. So it's, it's from Pliny to Trajan. And he says, hey, found this cult of wacky ass people here. And so here's what I've done.

Some of them have been Christians in the last couple years, some in the last 10, some in the last 20. They dabbled when they were in college to impress some girl. And so I did a test for them. First thing I asked them to do was to name the other gods. The next thing I asked them to do was to make an offering to your statue using wine and incense. Third thing I asked him to do was to curse their God. And I realized, like as he was doing this, he was using the Ten Commandments as a checklist. So good. Nice.

So then he says, you know, and we basically, anybody who said, oh dude, I'm not fucking Christian anymore. You kidding me? No, I'm not fucking Christian anymore, you kidding me? No, I'm done. They were allowed to go. And anybody who's a Roman citizen could say, hey, I demand a trial and they were sent to Rome. Anybody who persisted, I put to death.

And also we've had some people through their confessions say that the sum total of their crimes was that they would meet at dawn in weird places and they'd sing songs back and forth to each other in the name of this Jesus guy. And then they would take these really weird fucking oaths. In Rome, you don't take an oath unless it's to commit a crime. Oh, and he's like, they take these weird oaths to not fuck each other's wives and not steal from each other and not refuse a deposit not charge

Usury, yeah, and it's just he's like who does this shit? Like what is wrong with them and then they would like eat bread and drink wine Like what what the hell and then they come back later like what these people are nuts What do I do and so Trajan's like, honestly, long as they repent, it's good, call it good. And I love the idea that, you know, they had to repent their Christianity. But he's like, yeah, as long as they do that.

And then he adds like a little liner note at the end. He says, by the way, if you ever get informed on someone that they're a Christian, but that informant is an anonymous posting somewhere, ignore it. Straight up, do not pay attention to anonymous accusations. That is not who we are. Oh, wow.

And like he said something, it's like it's not representative of the time in which we live. Like it's like this really soaring rhetoric of like, we don't do hearsay around here. All right. And essentially what he's doing is he's like, don't let people settle scores with each other by accusing each other of Christianity. Of this thing. yeah. And don't let people destroy their own communities. It's so much better if everybody's just chill and let them repent and let them go right about their lives. As long as they're cool with it, I'm cool with it, you're doing great, my secundus,

go for it. Nice. That's the letters between plenty. Now that's in the 110s, 117 era. Yeah, okay. Sounds about right. That's the letters between Pliny. Now that's in the 110s, 117 era. Yeah, okay, sounds about right. Yeah, so that's 100 and, well I can't do the math obviously.

That's 160 years before Anthony, you said? Yeah, Anthony is in 270, yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So, and- So it's about 200 years before the big persecution. Yeah, tangentially. By the way, Trajan is considered the greatest emperor of Rome ever.

Like by all measures, by all historians, he's considered the bestest of the bestest. Like, you know, Marcus Aurelius is like fifth behind him. Like he's that good. Yeah. All right. is like fifth behind him like he's that good yeah and and so knowing that Trajan's approach was that yeah right oh and at one point Pliny said yeah there were some deaconesses like these women who are in charge of the church yeah of them was the slave to the other woman who was also a deaconess it was really weird so I had them both tortured to find out what the fuck's going on

And I found nothing but a depraved and really weird superstition like that's how he described it Wow Yeah, yeah You Roman to Roman view. Yeah. Yeah, so but okay, so that was high watermark of Rome 200 years later big- ass persecution because Rome is crumbling hard and falling apart, trying hard to deny it, which of course means you're going to attack groups that are out on the margins. Yeah. So then in 313, Constantine put out the Edict of Milan, which reversed all of that, codified Roman official tolerance of Christianity.

And then in 325, he, Constantine called the council of Nicaea because, okay, look, my wife convinced me to become one of y'all. And I'm the emperor. I'm a Christian. So everybody's becoming Christian behind me because it's, it's, it's what you do. And, and you all can't get your shit straight. So like we need to figure this out. So bring all the bishops together and, um, led to the denunciation of Arianism, which is important for theological reasons,

established what is today Orthodox Trinitarianism for most mainline Christian groups and also gave official approval to Christianity as a religion within the Empire and set it on the path of becoming the official religion of the Empire Which happened in 380 with the Edict of Thessalonica Okay, so there are a bunch of threes in there Yes, so you go back fourth fourth century was was a big deal right right start to finish yeah 325 Milan no 313 is Milan 325 is Nicaea oh okay I thought 330 I thought it's 333 for some reason no I don't mind being wrong um I

would point out during that persecution yeah there's a really important guy who is now Saint. He's a saint I I forget how it works, but a really important guy who also was an ascetic And he was martyred During that like to kick off not quite to kick off but during that persecution Saint Damien. Oh yeah, this is true. Him and I think Cosmos or Cosmo? Cosmos.

Damien and Cosmo, yeah Cosmos. Yeah, Cosmos. Damien and Cosmos. Damien is one of the first Christian martyrs. He was Arab and I think he's the saint of doctors or something like that or physicians. One, one of them. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, just one of the most important saints, uh, because his name is Damien. Yeah.

Well, obviously clearly. So, um, so now I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm jumping forward in the timeline like this, um, to give some context about when Anthony went out into the desert, just how young Christianity was. Right. So, okay. Um, the idea of Cardinal sins and virtues hadn't even been codified yet. Okay.

Uh, bishops were still chosen by election of the community. Christian monasticism wasn't codified yet and there wasn't even consensus on which Gospels were considered reliable or correct. Right, that's not until Nicaea, right? That's not till Nicaea, correct. And so that's another, we're talking about 270 to 50 years out. Right. And so the faith was, we're talking about 270, that's 50 years out. And so the faith was still growing. It was still nebulous. And it was still very much a fringe faith.

It was not part of established society. So Anthony... It was like the Montreal Expos of Yeah, yeah, like okay, I mean it's technically a team but let's like nobody yeah, so Anthony headed out into the desert in order to separate himself from the world Seeing it as the best path to achieve salvation. Is this just tied to the 40 days and 40 nights kind of thing that he saw Jesus doing? Thematically, thematically it very much is.

Okay. But that's not all of it. There has been throughout, especially throughout the early history of Christianity, and from time to time you see waves of it come up in revivals or reform movements or whatever, there is this very powerful streak of, well, millenarianism and the idea that, you know, Jesus is coming, look busy, but also this idea that the material world is evil. And now there is, there is an actual heresy and it's not, the name of it is not occurring to me right now. Okay.

But the Albigensians, uh, who, who had a crusade, several crusades, um, against them in France in the middle ages, uh, were, were believers in this idea that the physical world Oh, these are the Ksars, right? Yes. That's it. Thank you. Catharism. Yes. And the tendency toward catharism or the urge toward catharism has always been a

thing. And especially in the early church, there was this, uh, or the early faith, this is even before, if like the church was organized enough to be called that. Church was still with a small C. Yeah. Yeah. There was this belief that being in the world, existing in the world around other people where you have to, you know, go into the market to buy stuff and, you know, just being around other people was itself this path to temptation.

Like as long as you are living in the world with everybody else, you're going to see a pretty girl on the street and you're going to have lustful thoughts. You're going to smell food being cooked in the marketplace and your desire for that is going to Push you toward or yeah. Yeah, and your desire for you know being surrounded by material stuff is gonna You know tempt you to materialism all this kind of stuff. That's just real quick. That's it We've covered that when we talked about being a fighter a ninth level fighter We've talked about this when we talk, when we rag on Henry David Thoreau as we should. Um, like,

and we've talked about it when we talk about Westward expansion, like every single time, like, you know, and I'm thinking also of, of, uh, it's his name. I was going to say John Smith, but that's not his name. The guy who started Mormonism. Oh my God. His brother's name was Hiram. Joseph. Joseph Smith.

Smith, yes. They all went into what they saw as the wilderness. Yes. All of them kept doing that. And what's interesting to me with that is and it's just kind of fascinating that that this is just A recurrent theme in the religion no matter what latitude they're at and what longitude they're at you the going into a desert or you're going into a forest or you're going into a desert or You're going into where there's animals who live there who yeah, you're interfering with

but but also just like this escape from whatever the city or the urban center is considered to be into the wilderness. And at the same time, the puritanical idea of the wilderness was that that's the devil's domain. Which also goes back to the temptation and the desert stuff, you know?

So it's just the, I don't know, it's almost like the only way to, like it feels like it's almost like, oh God, this is gonna sound so insensitive and I don't mean it to be actually. Okay, but. It's like the spiritual version of when kids cut themselves

The only way to feel alive is to feel that pain The only way to feel close to God is to feel that that true temptation of the devil out in the wilderness Yeah, it's a weird fetishization of the wilderness. Yeah. Well, yeah, there's definitely some fetishization of the wilderness going on The extent to which what's interesting is Yoda does it too. Yeah. Yeah. He goes into a swamp. You know, when, when you talk about the, um, the, the, the wilderness being the devil's domain, what I think is really interesting is we don't

while in scripture, Jesus goes out into the wilderness to prepare himself for his ministry and he, and, and the devil comes to him while he is there, but there is not within scripture, right? Really a, a description of the wilderness as being the devil's domain. The wilderness as the devil's domain really shows up in the Puritans and the great awakening and second grade awakening. Yeah, and and the Great Awakening and Second Great Awakening and and that's a very very Later very much later early modern

Like you you have to get to a certain point within the development of of the theology, I think you also have to have actual racism play into it for it to work because the people who develop it as a concept are very clear as to who is white and chosen by God and who is dark. And not. And the devil. And savage and yeah yeah definitely okay so the

American version of that is okay so the American expression of that doesn't come around until well obviously until you have English in America you know Christians in America 15 1600s yeah right and and that by that point it is inextricable from the racism that they have developed culturally as well. Okay. And I think it becomes inextricable from the racism. I think initially it was just the Puritan idea

that they were there to build the city of God. Sure. And the wilderness was what they had to carve the city of God out of. And oh hey, we're running into these people who are so very different from us and they are savages and clearly they are of the devil. I mean, you know, potato potato, but I'm just looking at the, you know, and I'm not trying to like make any excuses for it. Oh God, no, no, no.

I think their very thing of carving the city of God out of this wilderness where other people live and not be pulled away from. It cannot be, it cannot be, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so there's still a, we have to leave behind what we know and go into this wilderness.

We have to go out into that. They just had an ocean to cross. Yeah. And also cause the church was too warm and fuzzy in England, apparently. Oh Lord. Yeah. Um, yeah, at some point. Yeah. So, Oh, that's, that's a whole other episode to talk about, to connect to something there. But Ed defends the church of England. Well, you know, I mean, they're basically Catholic. So like,

right, right. Oh, like, okay. Um, to, to the archbishop for Canterbury, just come home. Just, all you gotta do is just admit that like, you know, now you're doing the Roman boss. I kind of am. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie You know just like, you know, it's it's a what it's a one little little tiny nailing detail Right, you know, right Bishop of Rome like come on. Yeah And I know that you know friends of mine who were methodists are hearing this going yes, yes We've heard the same thing.

Where you just want to go up to the Bishop of Canterbury and go, uh, Catholic says what? Yeah. Oh, oh, that's now a life goal. I have to figure out how to make that happen. Okay. So, so there's a thing about going into the wilderness that is just permeative through this religion all the way. And then we just tack shit onto it when it comes over to this continent. Um, pretty much. Yeah. But it is, it is a mainstay. It is, it is like,

it is like counting to three on the mat in pro wrestling. It is forever. Yeah okay yeah yeah yeah so Anthony separated himself from the world okay you know following following Christ's admonition to give away all of his earthly goods now one assumes he gave his earthly goods to the poor what I I find interesting is, um, I would, I would venture to guess that Christ probably would have said, okay, you've got that part, right? But now I need you to help these people.

And so there's this tension between individual salvation and working with others to help others in order to maybe not achieve corporate salvation, but like, none of us goes home until we all go home though. Yeah. So in any event though, crisis imminent, not just eminent. Yes. Yeah. So Anthony, uh Anthony lived as an ascetic. He only ate bread, salt, and water. He never drank wine.

He never ate any meat. Now there had been, as I mentioned before, there had been earlier ascetics, but Anthony went farther than others had before him. He literally headed farther out into the desert and he remained there for over a decade in a solitary life. And other people followed his example. Other folks heard about him and, and, you know, uh, in, in, for whatever their reasons

were, whether it was an urge to, uh, towards salvation, whether it was, you know, to, uh, just try to live closer to God, what whatever, for whatever reason, uh, others went after him and they began forming early proto monastic communities. And we can trace this to the later period of St. Anthony's lifetime. And the folks who followed him became known as the desert fathers and desert mothers. And the traditions and practices that they established were eventually codified and systematized in the monastic rules of later institutionalized monastic orders. Okay.

Okay. Now, the earliest of these is the rule of St. Augustine written in the 5th century AD. The most influential and historically important in terms of overall influence on the rest of monasticism within Christianity is the rule of St. Benedict written in the early 6th century Okay So the desert Specifically the desert not just the wilderness but the desert Has a really crucial place in the subconscious of Christianity. Yes, okay We've already mentioned several times Christ spends 40 days in in specifically the desert to prepare himself for his ministry.

He goes out there, separates himself from the world, eats locusts and survives off the land living a very, very harsh life of privation during this time and faces temptation by the devil. Now before Christ, of course, his cousin John the Baptist was known as a holy man for going out into maybe not all the way out way into the desert because he was always near the river Jordan. Right. But living, living in the wilderness, removing himself. People had to come to him. Right. And he was preaching of the coming of the Messiah and he was this figure, uh, who gained, uh, notoriety for his wisdom and his holiness and was seen as this, uh, charismatic figure. Um, and so this, this tradition, you know, predates even Jesus. Sure.

And then after or during Anthony's life and after the hagiographies of Anthony and many of the desert fathers and mothers parallel the structure very closely. We hear stories of the desert fathers and the desert mothers having similar experiences of being tempted by the devil. And Anthony himself is said to have been tormented by the devil on multiple occasions. You know, the devil shows up and, you know, tempts him with lascivious visions of, of the flesh, tempts him with, you know, rich food and comfort and wealth and all of these things.

And Anthony on all of these occasions turns to Reir to drive the devil away, to turn away from those temptations and his spiritual strength and his wisdom and forbearance in the face of all this is this recurring, recurring theme. And this is, additionally, one of the early passages in Acts, in the New Testament speaks of spirit, specifically when we translate specifically from the language of the earliest texts of the New Testament, they talk about a spiritual dryness, not a spiritual yearning,

not spiritual emptiness, but specifically a sensation of being spiritually parched. Which is very deserty, which is, which is very, very, very, very powerfully desert focused and that to overcome this, you know, one, one must, you know, dedicate oneself to prayer and reaching out to God and all of these kinds of things. Sure. And, and what gets used in baptism. Yes. Water.

Yeah. Yes. Water. Yeah. So. Yes. So there's an interesting dichotomy in the idea, and you kind of already mentioned this, but heading out of civilization to avoid the temptations of the mortal world and then having to wrestle directly with demons in the wilderness. The people who took up this life through this hardship of physical sacrifice and the discipline of their dedication to prayer and contemplation and ultimate simplification of their lives. Like I'm not spending time doing anything that isn't either directly tied to staying alive or praying. I'm not, you know, there's, there's nothing else. There is, there's nothing else within my frame of reference.

And these folks not only sought salvation, but they achieved holiness in the eyes of the wider community. They became a template for this is what holiness looks like. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, a codifier. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, a codifier. Yeah. Yeah. And from these very, very early beginnings of monasticism, we have, okay. Um, all there's always, you know, at some point things reach some level of critical mass and it's like, okay, now we really actually, we need to have an actual set of set of rules.

We got to have an agreement on how all of this is going to work. And as the church became more organized and more hierarchical, we have the introduction of actual rules, as I already mentioned, and the establishment of recognized orders of monks and nuns. And nuns in particular is an interesting kind of thing because prior to monasticism as being an official thing, I already mentioned that Anthony handed his sister over who I think she was a kid. He was not very old. I think she, I don't actually know how old

she was, but I get the sense that she was like nine or ten. Okay. And he gave her into the care of a community of dedicated virgins who weren't quite nuns, but they were a group of women who had dedicated their virginity to God. They had basically said, we're never going to get married, we're never going to be with men, and we're living separately from that part of society, that fast of society. Which is on some levels following Paul's example, but honestly, you have the Vestal Virgins that existed since, I wanna say, yeah,

they existed since before Romulus and Remus in the area of Lake Alba. Okay, wow. I've seen where it was, the original temple for the Vestal Virgin, the first one. And they kind of get codified under Numa. Okay. But you have had an order of women specifically who don't fuck as a sign of their... an order of women specifically who

Don't fuck as a sign of their of their their dedication interestingly the Vestal Virgins could have fucked um Previously to becoming a Vestal Virgin. It's just you have to give up fucking for 30 years Oh So this idea of virginity is is a bit more nuanced for the Romans and they're just like look if you were married previously And now you don't want to remarry

Vestal virgin you give up fucking for 30 years and then after that if you want to go back to fucking you certainly can But if not, you could you could you know continue to be a matron or whatever And there are all kinds of rules the Vestal Virgin specifically had the magical power of being able to cleanse you of anything So diseases or your crime so it's really common to have them guarded by the armed slaves of wealthy matrons Because they're the ones who would accompany Vestal Virgins when they're out and about,

because otherwise criminals would like, oh no, I fell over and touched a Vestal Virgin, now I'm free. Like, is a normal thing. You know, almost like catching the bouquet at a wedding. So, there's a long history in that region of the world of women showing their dedication to God's by not fucking Yeah

depending on the time and the tradition Some of them could never fuck some could just put a pause on fucking for 30 years. It just yeah So I always did find it interesting though that I've heard nuns referred to as the brides of Christ, but I've never heard monks referred to as the cucks of Christ or anything like that. So... Yeah, well, yeah.

But you know, the patriarch is a bitch, but... Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. One of my favorites. Um, but uh, but there is this idea of a Marital asexual contract. Yeah and that again stretches way back to in the seven and 800s BC There's an asexual marital contract like like, you know, the not fucking part.

So Well, when you, when you think about in any historical society, any society that has reached a level of sophistication where they have agriculture, ownership of property, and a legal system to, to enforce that. Marriage is a central part of all of those civil orders. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. It's a cornerstone. And so one of the ways to mark yourself as distinct and as holy, would be to say, well, okay, see, I'm outside of that. Yeah. Yeah. So it makes sense. Yeah, it really does.

So we have the desert fathers and the desert mothers, right. You know, setting themselves up and eventually becoming the template on which monasticism within Christianity winds up being built. Later on into the middle ages in the early modern period, monasticism and monastic orders, they grew into massive institutions. Of course. Because throughout Europe and the Mediterranean, when wealthy people died, one of the central beliefs of Catholicism

is the idea of praying for the dead. And, um, there is, there is the idea that, um, if you, if you do not die in a state of mortal sin, you almost certainly wind up dying in a state of venial sin. And to kind of simplify- And you distinguish those for me? Yeah. To sin in the Catholic definition, sin is any action that separates you from God.

Right, okay. So a venial sin is lying to your parents about having done your homework. Okay, so low bar versus high bar. Yeah, mortal sin is versus high bar. Yeah. Mortal sin is infidelity to a spouse. Okay. Murder, you know.

Things that disrupt the community in a major way. Yes. Things that disrupt the community in a major way and our massive, you know, violations of the Ten Commandments and the idea of, you know, how God wants us to be to one another. Okay. So if you, because we are all flawed, because we all constantly make mistakes. And even if you go to confession every week, you're going to forget about shit you did. And you're never going to run out of material either.

And you're never going to run out of it because you And you're never going to run out of material because, you know, we're, we're human and God is forgiving and God loves us. But you know, you you're going to wind up going into the afterlife with, with some stuff that you were like, Oh shit, I forgot about that. Right. Right. And so there is period is this a period of cleansing, essentially they have to go through. And this is, this is purgatory. I mentioned earlier, I'm going to spend some time in purgatory for this. Right. And this is, this is where prayers are helpful because we the living

Can pray on behalf of those who have gone before us to to help them earn merit to get out of purgatory? Okay, okay And depending on how literally you want to take all of that like okay, but in the in the Middle Ages This was a big fucking deal right okay? Yeah, yeah And especially if you are a noble who makes you are living by fighting Shit out of people yeah And enslaving people and and yes, although that wasn't really a problem. It wasn't really like, you know, but, you know, and, and screwing over members of your own family to increase your own fee and double dealing. I mean, all of the stuff that was involved in

medieval politics, right? When you die. Boy, they really leaned into the idea of, well, you're gonna have to sin in order to live Boy are we boy? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah The capacity of humans to to do back flips to justify shit is amazing so In any event you you want to have people praying for you so you get out of purgatory quicker and so wealthy people would

establish Monasteries they would they would say okay. I'm taking I'm taking this this several however many hundred acres of my land and I'm giving this to the brothers of Clairvaux or, you know, the Benedictines, I'm giving this to the Benedictines to establish this, you know, monastery and, you know, in, in return for the land and, you know, the revenue that the land generates, I need them to pray for me.

And lots of people did this. Sure. And so over the course of the middle ages, Right back to Rome telling the Jews like, all right, we're going to let you do your thing, but, but yeah. And so over time, Abbey's and Convent's became very large institutions that owned businesses, um, you know, uh, monks brewed beer and, uh, dyed cloth and like they had, they had whole, yeah.

Good forest friars. Yeah. Nice. Although there were actually flower fields that were owned by monasteries that did shit. But so anyway, but like, yeah. So, but, but they had, they had these, these institutions that were generating this huge amount of income. Sure. And it wound up and the individual monks, this is, this is like the book. This is, so the, the skeptic orders were, were can I call foul? Like at what point is it we're like okay, so you and Martin Luther

Like So but here's here's this is this is the part that bakes my noodle when I think about it is the individual monks didn't own shit. Like right. Individual monks were following vows of silence. They were living according to vows of poverty, depending on which monastery we're talking about. That's yeah. But, uh, you know, and, and they were,

they were living according to a monastic rule, but the institution itself was generating bank, right? And this became an issue where wealthy families would send their second or third sons, have their, have their sons heads shaved and sent them off to be, to be monks. Because eventually when you get old enough, you're going to become the Abbott and you're going to be able to use the money that the monastery controls to help us with our dynastic goals. Right. Right. And Kings became, you know, the Kings had back and forth all kinds of trouble with,

with monasteries and with bishops and all these people. And so many of the older established orders wound up drifting into kind of comparative decadence after a while. And Abbeys and monasteries and convents became political and financial institutions just as much or even more than they were supposed to be spiritual ones. And so this is over the course of a thousand years, but by the time Henry- Of course, they could fund their own tertiary abbeys to pray for them.

And I don't know, you know, I'd have to look up like- Or maybe they would just, you know- The medieval church was weird and Byzantine enough so that they all I wouldn't be surprised I know they've done that but I don't or there's just you know fund a crusade like, you know killing in the name of Yeah, I mean yeah And that'll get you out of purgatory through a double uno reverse card. Well, if you die, if you took the oath and you died while on crusade, you wouldn't have to worry about it. You'd go to heaven.

Yes. Yeah. Well, I mean, I mean, let's imagine what heaven, yeah, let's imagine what heaven looked like to a Norman noble in the, you know, 1100s, probably not different from Stovall core, right? You know, so, so, uh, by the time Henry the eighth, uh, came around and, uh, had parliament passed the dissolution of the monasteries in 1536. Oh, that's right. He pissed them off. So, Oh, he didn't just piss him off. He, he, yeah. Well, he pissed the church off, but that's a whole, right? Um, in public perception of them, certainly in England and I'm pretty

sure throughout much of the rest of Europe was heavily tainted and it was relatively easy for his ministers to push a narrative of the Abbeys being centers of licentiousness, sexual deviance and hypocrisy. Also not for nothing, the monasteries were a fat target precisely because this one actually surprised me. They controlled 20% of the arable land in England at the time. That is before the the agricultural revolution so that that means a lot of fucking food. That's a big fucking deal. Yeah 20% one acre in five. Right. Now by the way Henry's not the only one not the only one having trouble with institutions of the church.

Philip over in France went in hard in the paint against the Templars, who decided banking was a good idea. How many hoops did you all have to jump through for that. Um, yeah. And, and Henry, uh, by that time had, had completely devastated the English treasury, uh, trying to fight a war against Philip. Uh, interestingly, or no, wait, it was a later, no, the Templars was earlier. Yeah. But the Templars was like the 12th or the 13th, like I think it was before the Cathars.

Yes. The Cathars. Yes. The Cathars were. Yes, the Albigensian heresies were. That was in Languedoc area, so that would have been the 1200s. So yeah. 13 or 14s I think, I'm trying to remember. I'll have to look it up.

But anyway, so by 1536, Henry basically says, all right, the monasteries are centers of sexual deviance and hypocrisy and all of this, and I am seizing all of their assets. And as the head of the new recently founded king of England, I'm saying we're not doing that anymore. And as a Star Wars fan, does that sound at all familiar? Right? A little bit. Yeah. Related to this also, that perception of monasticism lingered for a very long time.

Certainly at least a century because there are repeated references throughout Shakespeare, where, you know, many of his jokes to the groundlings have to do with nunneries in particular. In Hamlet, he says, to a nunnery, go. And to a modern reader, that's like, you're telling her to go off and, you know, be celibate. No, he's telling her to go off and be a hooker. Oh, wow. Because, because in some places in Europe, uh, houses of ill repute hovered as being, uh, nunneries, nunneries. Gotcha. Yeah. To a nunnery go like sure to an English audience that was explicitly coded as go be a hooker. Right. Like, holy cow. Okay. So, um, but, but the initial,

the initial birth of all of this was with the desert fathers and the desert mothers heading out into the wilderness to try to achieve salvation. So we start the Kenobi series with Kenobi living in the desert after the dissolution of the monastery. I mean the destruction of the Jedi order. Right. Okay. The order was guilty of a similar kind of spiritual drift. Yeah. They had placed themselves in a position of quasi official authority in the Republic and, and this is a neat little trick.

They had literally lost a big part of their connection to the Force itself. Yeah. Yeah. The Dark Side was growing, and they were becoming military leaders when they had no training, and now even the training of the Younglings was less about connecting to the force and more about martial capabilities with their Their you know swords. Yes. So okay, so we've got a crusade against the separatists

separatists Okay Okay, so Henry. Sorry. I mean Palpatine Came in and destroyed the temple in the name of his new order Okay, and those Jedi who survived order 66 had to flee into hiding. Mm-hmm Obi-Wan has headed into the desert where he's living in a cave in Many ways. This is his purgatory because it's hot as fuck there And he's you know, he's self isolating. Yeah.

He partly has penance for killing his best friend and. All that good stuff. OK. OK. So he's headed into the desert where he is living in a cave. He's working cutting up a space whale. Like, yeah, he'd never figured out that whole thing it was. That whole thing was, I didn't, they're like, I feel like the writers were trying to do something with that. I wasn't really a hundred percent sure

what was going on there. I think honestly, it was a fall from grace. And it was like, well, what would make him most folly from Gracie? Oh, he's gonna have to do some sort of grimy work with your hands job. Yeah, that makes sense. That isn't the cliche of moisture evaporators.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I think was going on there. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. He is very clearly a traumatized broken man. Yes. He thinks he killed his best friend. Yeah.

He lost the institution that has literally been his whole life. Which he himself had almost been kicked out of according to, well it's no longer canon, but according to the books, if you go back to Shadowhunter, the book, which is now Legends, but he basically failed every test and was the most average mediocre of the Jedi, but he had a knack for investigating shit. And Qui-Gon was like, no, fuck, don't send him to the agricultural core, send him to me. I'll see what we can do with him.

And that's why he stayed on as Jedi. He was the D student of Jedi when it came to his connection. That's interesting. Which I loved, I absolutely loved. And he's in these circumstances ravaged by guilt and failure and loss. Anthony went into the desert to achieve salvation.

Obi-Wan hasn't come to the desert to try to achieve anything. He's, he has fled and he has come to hide. Third sister shows up in Mossespa, chasing after a Jedi named Nari. Now this encounter is going to come up again later, but for now we want to focus on Nari asking Obi-Wan for help. I want to focus on it because it's a crucial character moment for Obi-Wan. He has clearly given up.

And more importantly for my analysis, he denies being OB one and OB. And the reason this is important for my analysis is because this is about as Petrine as it gets. In Matthew 26, 69 to 75 bystanders recognize Peter as a follower of Jesus and they confront him. Now while this is going on, this is when Jesus is being questioned by the temple authorities and in his fear and uncertainty, Peter denies knowing the Nazarene or being one of his disciples. And, and, um, this is after this is the same night as the last supper. Jesus told him straight up, you're going to before morning,

you are going to deny me three times. Yup. And Peter does it. He says, I don't know the man, right? I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not, I'm not him. I'm not with him. Right. No, I told you, I don't know him. And the cock crows. And he's like, Oh, and he flees. Yes. Okay. And on the next day, Jesus is crucified in Kenobi. He kind of sideways admits, okay, yes, you know who I am. I'm not going to be able to keep up that, that deception. Right. But he tells Nari to bury his lightsaber, hide, go

off lead a normal life. Right. He goes back into town the next day and Nari has been hung up in the center of town as an example. Yeah. The parallels aren't exact, but the spiritual crisis involved is the same. Right. Okay. The death of Nari and his guilt over it is part of what drives Obi-Wan to accept the duty to find Leia because it's like on the same day as that. Yeah. That he gets the message from Bail Organa saying they've taken her.

Right. I need you to find her. Right. Right. And he tries to say, I'm not that guy anymore. I'm not going to be. And also he's keeping an eye on Luke. Remember he is guarding the Lars family.

So while he has essentially lost his connection to the force, or at least turned as far away from it as he can, he's also still on guard duty. Yes. So he's like, I already have a mission, I can't go helping you on yours. Yes, but. Okay.

When he says that, and I'm gonna talk about the whole relationship between him and the Lars family later on, but he throws that out and it feels very clearly in the way the way Ewan McGregor plays it. That feels like an excuse. Yeah, I can't come out. I've got dishes. it's not it's not like no no no there's Luke I gotta worry about Luke go find Yoda get him to do it go right like you know no it's well no I I can't I have I gotta I gotta stay here I gotta watch Luke it's right yeah I can't leave these I gotta I gotta stay here. I gotta watch Luke. It's right. Yeah, I can't leave these cats

Yeah, I'm gonna feed them. Yeah, it did have that vibe. You're absolutely right Which is interesting because that's the second time he's tried to not do the hard thing When when he always does the hard thing like the first time did the hard thing Yeah, but the first time was when Yoda was like you got to go fight Vader and I got to go fight Palpatine He's like no no no no no ask me to do fucking anything else Let me fight the Emperor which some would be like see look what a badass. It's like no He was happy to go to his death rather than have to hurt his friend. Yeah Because he had that connection to his friend more than he had to his duty to the force.

And here he's like, I can't fulfill any kind of a duty to your kid because I am watching this kid not do anything. I really wish I could help, but I don't want to. I really wish I could help but I don't want to. Right. Like, yeah. And the sense that we get is he's, this is because he's broken. This is because of... Oh yeah, he's shattered from killing his friend. Yeah.

So now what I want to talk about is the idea of, the Catholic idea of moral duty. Okay. So I very broadly described sin a minute ago. Right. If you know what the right thing to do is, and you choose not to do it, you are committing a sin of omission. Okay. Uh, now if somebody is literally putting a gun to your head, that's, there's like extenuating circumstances and you know, but, but if there is no compulsion

involved and you know, I need to stand up and like stop this person from saying this shit or doing this to this person. Like I have the means I'm capable of doing it. I'm in a position to stop this from happening and you choose not to do it. You have committed a sin and depending on how serious that is, it could be a venial that is it could be a venial sin and it could be a mortal sin now is that based on the consequence of your inaction or is it based on something else because it sounds

consequential it's yeah it's it's it's tied to it's tied to consequence intent within within Catholic ideas about sin there has to be intent. There has to be knowledge or understanding and you know, the, the action you undertake that is sinful or your failure to act that turns out to be sinful. Like there, there has to be full mission. You have to make a choice to act, not to add whatever. Okay. So you have a moral duty to act in defense of other people when you can. You have a moral duty to speak the truth and seek justice for others and yourself. You have a moral duty to act with compassion,

to help others when you are capable of helping. Okay. So Obi-Wan winds up in a position where if he doesn't do something, winds up in a position where if he doesn't do something, he is allowing evil to occur. And so, all right, okay, I'll go get her. I'll find her, I'll bring her home. And it's evil to occur to a little girl as well, when the option is, well, I could just kind of keep an eye on this little boy that nothing's evil to occur to a little girl as well. When the option is, well, I could just kind of keep an eye on this little boy that nothing's happening to.

Yeah. Also, isn't there also a layer of, he knew that, she's fourth sister, right? Settigand? He knew it was fourth sister who, who, strong sister, third sister. He knew that third sister kind of wasn't done. Like, she had strung up Navi. Um, that was his name, right? Navi Nari.

She's strong. Um, in an effort to smoke him out in an effort to, cause she's doing her own thing Yeah, she and she's got a hunch on account of the fact that she also uses the force Yeah, she's got a hunch and so she's not done even though the other inquisitors are like nah man fuck it. We're done here She's like yeah, she's got some sort of like threads going so on some levels. This is still somewhat self-serving and You could say serving the community by absentee himself from it, but honestly he was out in the desert anyway Although she would have just tortured people to bring him into town

Yeah, but um by him leaving She no longer has a compelling reason to stay either That's true so yes by him leaving, she no longer has a compelling reason to stay either. That's true. So even, even, he's not looking to save himself in, in, in so doing. He is looking to minimize suffering on some level. Like it's,

you could take the force from Kenobi, but you can't take Kenobi. You can't completely take him away from yeah. Yeah like he he He believes that they've lost And the only like whatever whatever is gonna wind up happening that's gonna solve things isn't gonna be me Right, you know we we got to keep an eye on Luke and Leia because you know They're they're they're the only thread of hope we have, but he's kind of given up. Yeah. Like, you know, and so...

He has pushed them on the barge across the river. You know, and he's staying on his side of the shore. And then somebody's like, hey, Leia fell off. He's like, but I'm like watching Luke over here. Son of a bitch. Like, yeah. So... Yeah.

So, he can't not go save her. Right. But she's very obviously. She's also equal in status in his mind too. Yes. You know. Yes. But yeah, so, but you're right.

He can't not go save her. And he's also very, you were saying. Yeah. He's deeply reluctant and he is wrapped up in his own trauma in his own fear Yes, and you know, we have the moment where we have the moment where he's like clearly Conflicted about whether he's gonna bring his lightsaber along Mm-hmm, like you can you can see him getting it out and he's like, you know, there's, there's this amazing, just like knocks all of this out of the fucking park.

Like his, his portrayal, like his eyes in, in, in all of these episodes, his, his carrying all of this was absolutely fucking amazing. Like, yeah. Yeah. And so then as the, as the series plays out, his web of moral obligations gets wider and wider. You know, first it's just, I'm going to get her, I'm going to get her back to the organas and then I'm coming back here and I'm never leaving again and I'm done. Right. Right. That's, that's what he's got.

That's, that's the, that's the speech you can like, you can see on his face that he's got in his head as he's leaving. Right. But every time they run into some other situation, he, he, he can't turn away, because he's still carrying this very Catholic sense of moral responsibility and moral duty. Well, for a thousand generations, they were the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy. Yes.

Like, yeah, like, you know, so as he gets farther and farther into his quest His connection to the force strengthens and his confidence grows. Yeah His first come back. Yeah in his first duel with Vader His only goal is escape Right. That's the one in the quarry, correct? Yeah. Yeah, he just wants to every every move in that fight is extend an escape Yep, get away the fuck out here Yeah

The fight choreography is amazing at showing the characters of Kenobi and Vader as they progress through the story. Yeah in that in that first fight Vader is All straight lines all you, full on attack. And Kenobi is flailing and his posture, like his stance is wonky. Yeah, his stance is wonky and wobbly and low. Like he's hunched, he's crouching the whole time.

Like whoever the fight choreographer was, and I should look it up, oh my God, it was an amazing piece of character work through that choreography. Yeah, they really got the characters right with them. And also one of the reasons Vader's all straight lines too is because he's still dealing with his new body

Well, this has been Nine years eight years nine years. Yeah, but he's still I mean how many fights as Vader had to be in That's true. No, that's a good point. Yeah, so Most of them haven't been fights. They're, it's just been him marching in a straight line. Right. All I sense is fear and dead men, you know, because he's the dragon. Yeah. Um, and I'm, I have, I have more to say about fader later on. I have so much to say about Anakin Vader later on. Um,

but in the Imperial base chase, he succeeds in holding back the ocean when an underwater window gets cracked. Vader does? No, sorry, Obi-Wan. Yeah, yeah. And Obi, like, you know, and, and I have a couple of side notes here. First side note If you're building an installation that far underwater, why do you have windows?

Star wars just another just another question about imperial architecture and like osha violations like Nothing has a railing Well this okay. So this is pre this is pre episode four When nothing had a railing yeah, it's not like they would have had railings and gone like okay That was too expensive yeah, you know in the next iteration No, like this is when they've just started conscripting guys. Yeah, no shit from Shinola Yeah, like well clearly their architects don't know shit, architects and engineers. This is the overextend period And hope that nobody knocks it down period okay, so it's not so much that they're like we're gonna build an underground thing

It's like we need a base underwater. We have that base over there alright. Let's lift it up and put it underwater But we'll seal up the doors better. Yeah, well this would be fine. Yeah Pretty much. Yeah, actually. So, uh, you know, he, he, he's growing in his abilities by that point and he's able to hold back, you know, literal tons of sea water. And, um, also the other side note about that episode, I absolutely loved that episode because it felt a hundred percent like an old West End games, Star Wars, RPG adventure.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I had notes of like, here's what you include in my kids games. Yeah. Like the pacing, the, the interactions, the twists, like all of it. And, and I want everybody in the audience to completely understand. I am, I am saying this with all of the praise in my heart because it was, oh, it was so good. Um, and then by the, by the final episode of the show, Kenobi stands toe to toe with Vader. He has reopened himself fully to the force.

And, um, again, the fight choreography, yeah, his, his whole character, his whole stance has completely changed. And it is through his choosing to do the right thing that he rediscovers himself and his connection to the force, which is to say God, and accepting his duty clears the path for him to achieve the next part of my argument. Okay. At the climate, this is, this is it at the climax of episode six, as he's lying under a metric ton of rubble dropped on him by Vader, he sees Luke and Leah

and the duty he has to protect them combined with the hope they represent gives him the strength to then finally fully reawaken his connection to the force. I have more to say about that scene attached to a different Catholic theme though later on. Okay. As the last note while we're talking about moral duty mm-hmm I want to mention Owen oh please do Owen Lars yeah because as much as he comes across as an asshole in episode

four I don't think he does well all right oh well okay you know I mean I don't think he does because I've read Luke talking about him in Children of the Jedi. Okay. Because I've like, I don't think he does because I retconned him through my 20s by reading all the EU. So you're right, he does come across as an asshole.

When you're a kid seeing the movie for the first time, he's an asshole. Yeah. Here, he's a badass. He's an asshole. Yeah. Here he's a badass. Yes he is. In in Mos Espa, third sister gets in his face all medicine quivering barely restrained hatred. Like shit coming off our Wow Kenobi is literally just yards away. Yo Owen does not like Kenobi no, he doesn't they have literally just had a conversation minutes before yeah, leave my kid alone

Yeah, that's it Like no, he does not like personally. He does not like Kenobi. He doesn't very much like the Jedi There is a really good chance. He could be killed by the inquisitors for not talking mm-hmm But he stands there like a boss Yo, and he keeps his fucking mouth shut Because it's the right thing to do yes because it's the right thing to do. Yes. Whoa.

Just all the props, like, so. And it's like, it's everything I love about Star Wars, almost all of it. The aesthetics are Jedi heavy, but the philosophy, I've always loved the people without the force. Because they live in a world with space wizards doing evil ass shit and in a crushing bureaucracy. And you still have a guy who's basically the orphaned son of a gas station attendant who

blew up the fucking Death Star in Wedge. You know, you still have a guy who just was charming and good at administrating a really small Tobanna gas mining thing, and he blew up a Death Star. That's Lando. And yeah, you got Owen, who's just like, get off my fucking lawn when when he can yeah prior to that he's like I

I have to live here. So I'm gonna keep my mouth shut and and hope that you Don't feel provoked enough to prove yourself again because y'all already done killed someone yeah yeah so so yeah and I think this is gonna be where we put a pin in it okay for this episode sure sure I have a whole lot more to say because there's just so much here. But putting the pin in it here, where are you? What's your take away? What do you think? Well, you know, I'm going to be very interested in what you do in the next episode to reconcile this lens that you're using with the intended focus of the director, the writer, the candlestick maker on Kenobi's trauma. Because that was a central character more than Kenobi was.

And it'll be interesting to see that because it's clear he is so traumatized that he has, for lack of a better term, lost the faith. And he's seeing evil rise up and he has failed. He's traumatized completely. He is hollowed out. He is husked by his failure. Not a moral failure, but a failure nonetheless. In fact, maybe that's worse. And his trauma is a really

important and vital piece of this thing. And then ultimately, it's Third Sister's trauma as well that takes center stage in the latter episodes. And it's you're seeing in many ways this reminds me of the episode that I had while you were gone with Dr. Cruz where I discussed the inverse trauma, right? The inverse parallel of Speedball and Spider-Man. You have two different reactions to the exact same trauma because they're both Order 66 traumas. They're both an encounter with Vader. It's just one, she was left broken and wounded, and the other one, he left him broken and wounded.

Yeah. And so one becomes an instrument of hate and she's out for revenge, and the other one is like, I just, I don't even want to raise cabbages. I just, I'm gonna die here. I can't take my own life. So I'll be interested in seeing how you navigate those two things with the Catholic lens that you're bringing to bear. Oh yeah. Yeah. What you're reading well what I'm gonna recommend Is the book orthodoxy by GK Chesterton and I'm pretty sure I've probably recommended at least once before but when When you're talking about the Catholic lens

Chesterton does a very good job of being entertaining and clear about ideas within specifically Catholic theology that can be hard to wrap your head around. Um, and I am a very big fan, not only of this work, but of his, of his fiction. I'm a big fan of the father Brown mystery series. Um, but, uh, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna recommend that as a kind of a, kind of how Catholic orthodoxy works on a mental level. All right. So how about you?

Well, I'm going to recommend two books. The first one is called Kenobi by John Jackson Miller. It is now considered legends, but at the time when it came out it was part of the EU canon. One of the things I've loved about Disney is that once they declared all the books that are behind me as no longer canon, they then started picking and choosing from the good ones to do good shit, or they picked good things from even the bad ones to do good shit. Kenobi was an excellent book, and it essentially was the source material.

Yeah, you know, source material for this series in a lot of ways. So when people said, oh my God, they're gonna come out with this, I was like, oh cool, I've read the book. I'm interested in seeing what they do. And this took a very different focus. So in many ways, cause he stays on Tatooine,

it's not him going off and hunting down Leia, but at the same time, he does help a family, he does rescue a family and stuff like that. It's really good. And also in Shadowhunter, he does go sleuthing. So if you're interested in that that that one he's actually kind of Orbiting Darth Maul on Coruscant without realizing it

So and that one's set many many years early. It's before he has a beard. It's it's while he still has his braid Cool, so but the other book I'm gonna recommend is by Christopher Moore, and it's called lamb Lamb, okay, okay the gospel according to Biff Christ's childhood pal I've heard of this one. Oh, I love this book. I love this book. It was so good when I read it. Um, I really genuinely It's it's rare that I will sympathize with a character so hard as I did with Biff as he's talking to Judas after Jesus is dead. Oh, wow. And Judas had some really good shit to say.

Wow. And Biff was just all rage. And it's oh man it was really good. Anyway, spoiler alert. Yeah. But it's yeah it's a really fun read. It is irreverent as hell. But at the same time it gets at the tone of camaraderie, which I really

really liked. So those are the two I'm gonna recommend. Nice. Very cool. You remain, I assume, a shadow in the warp? I do. All right. Well, folks can find me on July 5th, which I think if this drops right, that's tonight. Or if I'm wrong, then August 2nd. Or September 6th at the Comedy Spot in Sacramento. Come get your tickets, and if you can't get your tickets, go to the Comedy Spot's website, go to their calendar, stream the show, it plays very well at home as well. People from all over the country are starting to watch it, which is really cool. Nice.

But come see Capital Punishment. I will be there punning with my partner, Justine Lopez, with Mark hosting some really, really good local and from slightly far away punsters giving good pun. So come check that out. Comedy Spot, July 5th, August 2nd, and September 6th. Nice. And of course we collectively can be found on our website at www.geekhistorytime.com. That's where we have an archive of all of our episodes. Start wherever you like. Pick a topic that catches your interest and run with it. We also, of course, can be found on the Apple Podcast app and on Spotify. And wherever you have found us, please take the time-

And on Amazon. Oh, right. I keep forgetting that one. Yes, Amazon. Wherever you have found us, since you are listening right now, please take the time to give us a five-star review that you know we've earned, and be sure to hit the subscribe button as well. Oh, yeah Cool. Well for a geek history of time I'm Damian Harmony and I'm Ed Blaylock and until next time keep rolling 20s