A Geek History of Time - Episode 282 - Nova is Just the Average, Sad, 1970s Spidey Part III

Episode Date: September 20, 2024

Item one, hit the grocery store. Item two, laundry. Item three, over through capitalism. You know, for somebody who taught Latin, your inability to pronounce French like hurts. Damn. Look at you getting to the end of my stuff. Mother fucker. But seriously, I do think that this bucolic, luxurious live your weird fucking dreams kind of life is something worth noting. Because of course he had. I got into an argument essentially with

with some folks as to whether or not punching Nazis is something you should do. And they're like, no, then you're just as bad as the Nazis. I was like, the Nazis committed genocide. I'm talking about breaking noses. Drink scotch and eat strychnine. All right. You can't leave that lying there. Luxury poultry. Yes, yes.

Fancy chickens. Yes, fancy chicken. Pet, pet, fancy chickens. Pet fancy chickens. Pet Fancy Chickens. Pet Fancy Chickens. This is a Geek History of Time. Where we connect to the real world. My name is Ed Blalock. I'm a world history and English teacher here in Northern California. And long-time listeners have probably heard us somewhere mentioned that we will record a couple of episodes of this show in an evening. And over the course of the last couple of recording

sessions, when we take a break between episodes, that's usually my time to go to the bathroom. And that means walking across the house to use the bathroom in our master bedroom. And for the last couple of sessions in a row, I apparently spontaneously learned some form of ninjutsu because I have managed to scare the shit out of my wife. Cause I'll just walk across the house, not meaning to be some kind of assassin at all. I'll walk into the master bedroom and say, Hey babe, meaning to be some kind of assassin and all that all Walk into the master bedroom say hey babe, and she will jump halfway out of her skin

Because she's wrapped up in whatever she's watching on her iPad or on the TV and just has not heard me coming So this evening I made a point of stomping my feet as I went across the house so she would hear me. And this time I walked into the master bedroom and she just looked over and gr babe, I said, you know, I try and so yeah just It's like okay I'm not gonna do that again because because she jumps out of her skin and makes some kind of very loud Yeep noise which makes me jump

And like I don't want to do that. So, you know, so anyway, that's what I have going on about you. Well, I'm Damian Harmony. I am a US history teacher up here at the high school level in Northern California. You know, it's funny, I had something else I was going to say, and I don't remember it because your stories are enthralling.

And it reminded me of a couple things. One being that in my married days, there was a joke, a running joke between my wife and myself, that I was so good at stealing food that I could steal her entire meal without her noticing. And I of course took that as the challenge that it was. And so, and the thing is, you know my rules when it comes to pranking, right? Yeah. You can't don't do one that harms anyone or that harms anyone's stuff. Well, if you're stealing food, you'd better make sure there's enough to replace it with. Right.

Right. Right. Okay. So I was sitting there with my son and my daughter the other day, and I snuck food off of both of their plates while they were eating food off of their plates. And my daughter at one point, she goes, wait a minute. And I'm like, what? As I'm eating her food, she's like, I was looking right at you, talking to you.

How did you do that? I'm like, there's a reason your mother used to say that I could do this. And she's like, have you ever actually managed to do that? I said, yeah, I stole an entire meal from her once at dinner with her parents. And then I went and I loaded her plate back up. Like I remembered what it looked like, you know?

So it's just, you know, so So it's just you know, you you do this sneaky sneaky by accident I do the I'm eating your food and right in front of you Like and I have this way. I'm a big dude like and I'm gregarious and yeah, I am hard to miss and Yeah, and yet I am entirely forgettable and missable. Um, in certain contexts, when I would go out to, and you can ask producer George about this, when I would go out to dinners with large groups of people, I'd be holding court and having a good old time. The server would come around,

they'd get everybody's orders and I would be up last and they would get the seventh person's order. And then I'm right there at last and they would get the seventh person's order and then I'm right there at eighth and they okay well we'll get that started and they just fucking walk off and it happened so often like we started seating me in different spots it didn't matter like I was always skipped and everybody's like how is this happening and I said I said the only way I can think of it is that I'm interacting with them in between interactions with you guys.

And so they think that they've talked to me. Yeah. Exactly. And I think that's what I do with the food thing too. I'm eating my food and then I'm eating their food and they don't see the difference. Well, yeah. So I hide in plain sight. I am the mountain that you don't notice.

Yeah, yeah. Because on a certain level, what you're doing is the verbal version of close-up magic. Yes. Look over here. Right, right. Look over here. You didn't, you know, yeah. Right, you didn't do that, yeah. You're looking at the big flashy thing I'm doing over here. Right. Look over here. You didn't, you know, yeah. Right.

You didn't see that. Yeah. You're looking at the big flashy thing I'm doing over here. You don't see the other thing. Yeah. Right. Right. So, and I used to do that.

I would slip things into conversations for fun. And then people would start making bets with me of like, I bet you can't work this into, and it was like in a mythology class. We're talking about Gilgamesh. And one of the guys told me, he's like, I bet you can't work this into. And it was like in a mythology class. We're talking about Gilgamesh. And one of the guys told me, I bet you can't work this sentence into the next conversation. I'm like, what is it?

And he says, standing in line, waiting for your social security check. I was like, oh yeah, that does seem like a hard one to slip into a discussion on fucking Gilgamesh. And then I absolutely did because I said, oh, this is the stages of man's development. I mean, in the beginning, you're in the Bronze Age and you do this and then you do this

and then as you age and time out and pretty soon before you even know it, you're standing in line waiting for your Social Security check and then the bull of whom Baba has beaten your best friend and da da da da. Nice. Nice. And then he's turned around,

he's like, you fucking did it. Well, of course I did it. like, come on, it's me. Don't bet against me. So I do remember what I was gonna say ever so briefly. I used the term KFabe in my class the other day to talk about the education system and grading and the inability for people to adjust to a better grade system despite it being mathematically proven so.

And the urge that people are having to want to go back to the old system even though we all acknowledge that there were problems. And so I talk about how it's KFAB. And so of course I had to describe K-Fabe to students and I don't think this is actionable against me. So, you know, if people wanna come at me, that's fine. But teaching students that our grade system and most of our education system,

from AP down to remedial and everything in between is all kfabe Is is perhaps the best lesson I can teach a kid now Yeah, well, it's it's the truest and simultaneously most subversive thing. Mm-hmm That you could be doing So, yeah, yeah that they wish I was still teaching Latin. Anyway. So, you know, take away my Latin program. This is what you get. Okay. It's like, you want ants? This is how you get ants. It's like, you want subversion.

This is, this is how you get it. Yeah. Do you, do you? You should have kept me irrelevant where I'm just shaking Samson's chains going? Hey, look, he doesn't have to wear them and nobody would know yeah instead. I'm like these pillars Are really you see the seam right there? That's where I'd break it. Anyway kids. Here's a pic, you know, like like yeah I would what there's a part of me that that almost wishes I had a time machine. And just, just so I could go back in time and be the Cassandra to tell the tell your administrators, okay, look, you think that by eliminating this program, you're going

to get this. think that by eliminating this program, you're going to get this. What you're actually going to get is destruction, death, and absolute chaos. You fools, you blinkered fools, you're putting him on the path to super villainy. Like, do you not understand? Oh, I love it. you are radicalizing him. Yeah, it's that it's that it's look, there's going to be a pandemic. He's already on that path. Yeah. Do you want him on your side or do you want do you want him outside?

Like, because, yeah, they won't be against you. But there are there are only there's there's There's a there's a spectrum of possibilities here, right? You you you can't you can't get You know, you know happy fluffy, you know, just just gonna go along and get along Right harmony you already know that you you should already know that you're you're not gonna get that But but you might be able to get Is is happy in his little niche and has no reason to destroy the established order, right? If you take that away from him, you're gonna get a supervillain

well, I Wouldn't go that far. I need you to understand. But I will say like happy in his little niche and will only snap at things that go like egregious. Yeah. Compared to, yeah, like, although, although everything's been pretty goddamn egregious, so I might've been snapping. I like, I was snapping pretty hard and I had a Latin program like yeah well but now it's like no

it's like okay fuck it K fapes broken yeah you know it's I've turned this into a shoot like that yeah you know I'm going into business for myself right okay I'm done yeah I'm done. I got yeah Yeah Which way do you want him leading the parade really? Yeah, um Do you want to you want him just far ahead of you and like you'll come by and apologize for him later? Or do you want him going through your living room like how? How personal do you want this apocalypse to be How personal do you want this apocalypse to be? Anyway, yeah, my students know about kfabe now, that's awesome. They know what a joke grades actually are I even told them I said I could have used a fruit scale. Um

This would have been fine too like, you know, hey, how'd you do on that quiz? I got a mango. Hey, not bad Not bad. Cool. Would you get a kiwi? Well, you know, I, you could work your way up to a banana, you know? Yeah. You know, yeah. Again, it just, the values we put on it, it doesn't have any meaning. Like you get to make shit up. Like it's all made up. Like stop agreeing to like the SATs are bullshit word every all words are made up like right after a certain point like yes now, but like like I'm you know Here's the crates of bullshit or even we're talking about everything being made up. Yeah, they're there Well, I'm sorry, but if the Emperor's walking by naked I'm gonna point to his dick I'm I'm gonna like oh these I say t-tests harmony there. We're really stressed. I'm like yeah, I understand why you're really stressed It's a shame that they're unnecessary what?

well Let's look at the racist history behind them and how they were trying to keep out the Irish and the Italians and you know No, and they're like yeah, well, that's messed up. I'm like those why I never took it, you know, yeah, but anyway All right. So when last we left Everything I believe I was gonna get us into a spider-man series Yes You were in the amazing spider-man. So a thing that started happening Right around this time was that in the summertime they would do double issues

Per year remember per month. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Famously, the ones where Frank Castle is made black was a series of double issues. It was like a six or seven issue arc and it lasted just the summer. And yeah.

But anyway. The less said about that the better. Or just go back to the episodes where we covered the Punisher. So from September of 91 through January of 92 there were let's see three, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. There were six issues that had Spider-Man teaming up with a whole fuck-ton of people. And so he teams up with Moon Knight, who is definitely in his merc phase and has a shady history and kind of touched in the head,

but not batshit crazy. Still tethered enough to reality that like you weren't watching it in the same way that you were watching, you know, in the same way you were watching like a demolition derby, right? Okay. So, so Moon Knight and Dark Hawk, I have to say that carefully, Darkhawk, not that cutscene from Beastmaster where you see him slip out of his loincloth. That's a different pronunciation. Darkhawk actually also nicknamed Buckethead, interestingly.

But anyway, Moon Knight and Darkhawk and Spider-Man team up to find Moon Knight's former partner again named Jeff Wild, who's now known as Midnight. So Moon Knight, Midnight. He'd become a part of a group called the Secret Empire, who were only known by the Roman numerals on the front of their really elaborate robes. The Secret Empire is struggling with controlling Midnight who has been made into a cyborg and they control him but he's kind of going rogue a little bit doing more than they ask him to and stuff like that and they keep promising

to like make him better and better. He'd gotten bits of him blown off or something and Moon Knight thought he was dead. Okay. Okay, so the Secret Empire is trying to control him. They can't and one of them suggests that they instead try to manipulate young superheroes because young super villains or super villains are too fucking much trouble and of course number seven has a specific unfocused down on himself going through hard changes young superhero in mind Okay Nova

Midnight tries to do an end around on the secret Empire guys because he's trying to take over the secret Empire and He thinks he's smarter than they are but it's all kinds of like, you know villains doing villain shit It's kind of interesting to see it actually backfiring on them instead of them all collaborating. So he is like, I'm going to recruit Nova myself, and then he will be like my sleeper agent, and together we will rule the Secret Empire as Midnight and Nova. He ambushes Nova, and then before Nova wants to fight or like as Nova's like alright, buddy You call down the Thunder here. We go. He's like no no no I just I need to get your attention matter of fact. I know who you are

um I came here to find you and he makes the pitch to Nova about joining the secret Empire and Nova is pretty down lately right and also this is being written by a different guy however pretty down lately, right? And also this is being written by a different guy. However, Niseiza and Defalco knew each other really well, so the odds are there's some clabbing going on there. But Nova is suspicious because the plot needs him to kind of be, oh, maybe this is a good idea. And remember, he doesn't like Night Thrasher that much,

but he's suspicious and he points out all the times that secret Empire Have been on the wrong side of things Like okay, that's that's his response to the pitch And then he he pulls a smedley butler. He's like well Let me hear you out, but he like double taps his helmet practically so he basically lets it feed to Night Thrasher Taylor Foundation Um, and uh, he says well, why don't you show me everything make your pitch? Here we go And and so he turns on all the spyware in his helmet

He makes sure Night Thrasher is getting all the information on the secret empire and he plays along uh, meanwhile Spider-man has placed a tracer on Midnight and Spidey sees Midnight and Nova together, so of course there's going to be that. Spider-Man goes ahead and attacks Midnight and Nightthrasher of course only hears, oh shit, Spider-Man's attacking us and he assumes that Spidey's also attacking Nova. The fact is that Midnight attacks Spider-Man as well, and Nova's like, well, fuck, I'm convinced that you guys are hella bad guys, because I know Spider-Man. Okay.

When Night Thrasher goes to defend Nova against Spider-Man, you can imagine the hilarity that ensues. It gets kind of French-farse. Okay. Additionally, Moon Knight has shown up to confront Midnight so then Midnight hits Moon Knight's copter like so Moon Knight has like a Moon Knight copter it's like a hover thing shaped like a crescent right right right um and he's got a rope ladder coming down from it. And Midnight hits that,

which forces Moon Knight from the battle. He then hits Nova with a thing called the Nerve Scrambler, which knocks out Nova completely, and now he takes off with the helpless Nova. Okay, all right. So. Kid naps him. Exactly. Kid Nova naps him.

So, at this point, Spider-Man, Night Thrasher, and Moon Knight, also later joined by the Punisher, they all go in search of rescuing Nova. Now I mean you can imagine like what the covers of this look like and it's impressive and it's like wow, one comic I get to see all these superheroes? Hell yeah, I'm here for it. Alright, yeah. So they I'm here for it. All right. Yeah, um So they go in search of Nova Nova becomes basically a McGuffin for the next few issues That's a bummer it is but like again

He's in somebody else's comic book and also he's specifically in spider-man's comic book, right? So you're not gonna see much growth here. You're going to see the, like, what if version of Spider-Man if Spidey was dumber. And not as agile. You know? I mean, there's something going on there with that, right? So basically, the Secret Society is looking to augment Nova and then control him with tech. It's akin to what they failed to do with Midnight and so in order to find out the origin of his power they have to do some deep probing which is of course very very painful for him and they still can't

figure out the origins of his power. He continues to be the damsel in many, many ways, unable to rescue himself, and the Secret Empire thwarts the heroes for several issues. Now eventually, the Punisher infiltrates the Secret Empire. He frees Nova, but he himself is stuck with trying to find a way out. Nova lets the heroes know what's up via his helmet commlink and then he and Punisher keep looking for a way to escape and eventually the heroes actually catch up to them and then the next issue is the big battle between everyone and and there's there's a lot of like hero on hero yelling and violence and disagreeing

and stuff like that. But Nova is the point of this podcast and at no point is he really centered in any of that. There's a lot of shit going on between Night Thrasher and Spidey and Night Thrasher and Punisher. Because Night Thrasher and Punisher get along really well since the bangle issue. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

So, what do you call it? So the short version, turns out Midnight and the Secret Empire aren't the only villains here. The Secret Empire also created a nurse named Lynn who herself had herself augmented and she's looking to take it over and she's falling in love with with Jeff Wilde and the two of them are lovers But then she's going too far, and he doesn't go far enough and so they start a lovers fat spat and the two of them start fighting each other for control of the secret Empire and Literally bring the whole thing down upon themselves At this point Nova is largely faded to the background because the Spider-Man comic and everything ends eventually. So when Nova interacts with

Spider-Man in his original they fight because he thinks that Spidey killed his uncle and they banter back and forth and I think I even told you like there's some lessons learned. Yeah in this one Spidey's an adult okay, and he's been at it for years Nova is still kind of seen as a youngster even though he is technically an adult He is a very young adult compared to Spidey at this point like it's that important 27 to 19 differential yeah and important 27 to 19 differential. Yeah. So Nova is at best in Spider-Man's world a MacGuffin. In his own comic he was overshadowed by Spider-Man as well,

and in The New Warriors he's a far more interesting character. Now, when the Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity War happens, remember the Infinity Gauntlet happens Infinity War happens, remember, the Infinity Gauntlet happens, I believe, in 90 or 91, and then Infinity War is the next year. Gauntlet was by far more successful, Infinity War was let's recreate that magic, but let's make it bigger,

and it sold, it moved plenty of units, but it was not nearly as good, because the central issue wasn't simple enough ultimately. It wasn't just go and stop Thanos. It was there is a future version of or a future evil version of Adam. Adam Warlock? Yeah, Warlock. I was gonna say Goldman, but he's literally gold. That's why. Yeah. But there's a future slash evil version of him, and he ends up running the show and makes, it's a big convoluted complex thing.

But in both of those, Nova is the only really viable new warrior in either story. Like in Gauntlet, like almost all the new warriors were blipped. He's the only one that's not. And it shows on the screen, like I'm just like, oh shit, they're gone, okay. In Infinity War, he's actually bragging to the group

about being selected to go to space. And again, it's pretty clear, like they're at the top of the Baxter Tower of Four Freedoms and there is like essentially not a draft, but like, okay, everybody's here. Is anybody not wanna go? We'll eliminate that. And then we're gonna pick the ones who are most qualified

to go into space and do cool space shit. And then there's gonna be another team that's picked to stay home and keep people safe and you know not let shit catch fire down here. Right. He's the only one of the new warriors that gets selected to go to space and now there's two things that are very very clear here in an Infinity Gauntlet or Infinity War. One, he's hella powerful. Much more than all of his colleagues. And two, he's hella immature and dumb. Much more than all of his colleagues. Even Speedball. Now, all of that happens, it's, you know, that's him being in other comics again, and that's him being in other comics again and

that's these big events that they try and it works for Infinity Gauntlet, it less so for Infinity War but it fairly works and then for Infinity Crusade it was just a hot mess. I mean it's kind of like you did Days of Future Present, which was way more complicated and, you know, it's they over-swerved it. And then I almost want to say there was a Days of Future, or a Days of Present Present, but I'm probably making that up.

Yeah. But same thing with Infinity, Gauntlet, that was the sweet spot. Infinity War, it mostly worked, but it was a little too much, or a lot too much. And then Infinity Crusade was just silly, silly, silly. The last thing I plan to address in this examination of Nova is romance.

And it's not to say that other things aren't worth a look, like I said last time, but since I'm largely looking at Rich Ryder's growth from his debut into no longer being such an overt attempt at Peter Parker clone, and yes, I know exactly what I'm saying with saying Peter Parker clone, the Scarlet Spider, interestingly, was a member of the New Warriors at the same time that Nova was, but by then Nova was a very different character from the from the actual Peter Parker clone. But anyway since I'm looking at his growth from debut to effective adulthood and maturity, I'm gonna stop right before we get to the Civil War. Okay. Now that said there's at least one or two more episodes about Nova that should be written His work in annihilation on its own the fact that the Nova Corps is an intergalactic cop squad

the The fact that it changes in both mission and portrayal with annihilation in very important ways. And the fact that in the MCU, it gets reverted back to being just basically the cops. All of those are fascinating. And he himself, even while it's like intergalactic cops,

he himself is much more of a contrary icon than somebody holding true to that image. And of course, we could talk for a while about Sam Alexander, the new Nova, who comes with a whole host of interesting wrinkles to being a Marvel Kid character. But for now, I will end by talking about how Rich Ryder goes from mindlessly and grundle-drivenly flirting with Amarita to being a mature, equal, and supporting partner in a romantic relationship. Okay. This will absolutely parallel the Parker-Watson arc, but it has a lot more equality to it than that one did,

because Mary Jane Watson did not have superpowers. Right. So she wouldn't go with him into battle. They wouldn't share those experiences. There was no trauma bond. She was his escape from his responsibilities into joy, much in the same way that Nova's powers were his escape into joy from his responsibilities. Right, right. Like we talked about last episode.

Exactly. Now, that said, you will see at the end of this that Nova centers responsibility in his identity. And at that point, he ceases to be the sad boy version. But, back to his romance. Namorid apprentice is the daughter of the half human cousin of Namor, making them first cousins once removed. Right, okay. She's actually a clone, whose embryo was implanted into her mother by genetic manipulation because

her mother was half human, half Atlantean. That's your typical genetics is when you're half of something and half of something you cannot produce viable offspring. Right. So genetic manipulation was needed like you do. And the person who, instead of just being like, okay, well, we're going to take your husband's DNA and your DNA, mix it up, toss it in, instead it was, we're going to use your husband's DNA

as like this stabilizer sequence, and then we're gonna grab like all the legendary Atlantean's DNA, which somehow is lying around. And we're gonna grab like all the legendary Atlanteans DNA, which somehow is lying around And we're gonna throw that in there, and then we're gonna implant your mom with that so Okay, her her Joseph father. I guess is the word for it. Yeah Was a guy named Talon t a la n All right, who then gets killed in an underwater atomic bomb test.

While she's still in utero. Now after her mother was poisoned to death when she was like four, her cousin, Namor, basically put her in the care of a human friend of his named Betty Prentice. Under Betty's care, Namorita went to high school, went to college, took the last name of Prentice when this woman died. Oh my god. Yeah, a couple things are going to be true about Namorita this whole time. Number one, she's lost every fucking parent she's ever had, and she's also no stranger to such losses,

and that's going to affect her. Number two, she has always been very much an independent strong woman who lives in two worlds and is a stranger to both. Okay. And I'm gonna throw this in there, she's also college educated. Right. And very bright, acknowledged as such. Okay. So when she joins the New Warriors, and she's kind of a self appointee, like she was not on Dwayne Taylor's radar, her and Speedball both. She and Nova immediately begin a rapport of flirty banter and they both served as a team's flying heavies. I think I quoted this in the last episode. Yeah, yeah. Nova comes flying through to attack Terrax just as Namorita is lifting him up into the sky

away from the earth. And Terrax lets out a huge scream because if he's not connected to the earth, it hurts and he's going to start to disintegrate. So Nova shouts, look out, babe, as he smacks into Terrax. So, and this is literally in the first issue. She wonders to herself as everything's going on, she says, quote, you know, in Thought Balloons,

why did Tarex scream like that? And why did that punk risk suicide by calling me babe? So. I like her already. Right, right. And we're already seeing like, okay, here's where her head's at. And again, she's self-possessed. She is not like, oh, he likes me. How awkward.

How do I break his heart? Or, oh, he likes me. What do I need to know? Just like, the fuck's wrong with this guy? And then a few pages later, as they're coming up with a plan to defeat Terax, Nova and Namorita are flying together, and remember, he says, yeah, yeah, I heard you, I just don't want you

telling me what to do, and she says he's a good friend, I take it. Actually, we just met last night. You, though, I could become good friends with. You live in Queens? Yeah, how'd you know? Oh never Never mind and and then once they fly Terax they each grab them by an arm, which means they're both their heads are both over his so they're close in the panel

As they're both holding one of his arms, you know, they're lifting him up. Yeah Nova notices that he's disintegrating and he says blue blazes. He's falling apart Her response is did you just say blue blazes? Sorry old habit Nice they're saying that as they're both punching taraxe into orbit Yeah, and that's what defeats him because he then disintegrates. And after he's disintegrated or destroyed, Namorita says, suffering Shad, we just killed him. And Nova goes off on Dwayne a minute,

Night Thrasher for a minute for that. And then a few panels later, did you just, or he just turns to her and goes, suffering shad? Sorry, old habit. Which, oh, I've been flirted with like that before and it's so fucking hot. Where they turn your words against you, you know? So later, the mad thinker,

I think it's like issue three or four, the mad thinker gathers them all together. He attacks each one of them, defeats each one of them alone, and then he's got important stuff to tell them basically about how they are the future. He's going to keep his eye on them. And so he mildly assaults all of them. He doesn't try to hurt them, doesn't try to kill them. He's just getting readings on their power, but interacting with them in a way that is like puts them in a sense of danger

but he gathers he calls them all and Like leaves clues for them all and she figures that the clues out first because she's the smartest and she lands and she's like You know, all right. Where's this mad thinker asshole and then Almost immediately thereafter Nova shows up and he shouts, hey legs. And then she looks at him, who? And he says, well, don't tell me you went to all this trouble

to set up a romantic rendezvous, I'm touched. And she says, in the head. The the writers had to have had way too much fun. Oh they absolutely are like oh my god Absolutely, it's it's the it's the salmon Diane thing, but it's not yeah So head right yeah And in a later issue This is where she goes up in a rocket and shit like that, right? Right. And she gets taken up there by a, I forget his name, he's an eco-terrorist. Afterwards,

they come back down. They're helped back down. I think Lockjaw actually teleports them back down. Okay. And I just put a picture in the chat. So pull that up. So Nova, Night Thrasher, and Speedball are stuck on Earth. Nemorita, Marfa Boy, and Firestar are up at the moon and hanging out with the Inhumans and shit. And they come back and go and look at the picture. Um, yeah Nova's overjoyed that they're back. Yeah and Tell us what happens Well, he picks her up right off the ground

Okay, I mean, all right, you know rohugs can happen but yeah her All right, you know row hugs can happen but yeah her Her her response good to see you too big boy smaller type watch your hands, right? So Not what the fuck are you doing? Put me down? Yeah, just watch your hands. So it's kind of okay that you pick me up by the rib cage or by the hips Yeah, and she calls him big boy, and it's not because he's a big dumb lummox You know he's not playing that Yeah, but he lifts like there's there's chemistry there. There's a lot of chemistry

Yeah, so the report continues playfully flirtingly and chidingly from her usually and it's a very slow but obvious burn and chidingly from her usually. And it's a very slow but obvious burn. She starts calling him Richie, he starts calling her Nita, and then it becomes less guarded and less contentious when he tells her not to break a finger down. They do a guest spot in, I think, the New Mutants annual. No, in X-Force annual. I think it's X-Force.

And so they're helping Cable break into a spot, No, X-Force any I think it's X-Force and so They're helping cable break into a spot, you know cable and his crew and Nova says to her like she's gonna dig into a metal plate and Yank it out and that'll allow them to fuck with the electronics to open the door Okay, and he tells her not to break a fingernail. And her response is, if I do,

you can kiss it and make it better. And he says, that's my girl. And her response is, don't you wish? Hey, what do you know? I did break a fingernail. And he says, and then because they're moving on, right? So there's this banter going on while the action's happening. Yeah. Because they're moving on, he says, well, we got work to on, right? So there's this banter going on while the action's happening. Because they're moving on, he says,

well, we got work to do, and to do, T apostrophe D-O, right now, hon, but check with me later about kissing stuff you mentioned. Now that's when they are guests in another person's comic or in another group's comic. Now, I want you to take a look at this next picture in the chat and I will describe it to our listeners. It's in the, again, it's in the same annual.

On the far left you see Cannonball. Next to Nova you see Wolfsbane. Then you see Nova, still in his maroon and gold. And then, because I've bounced back and now I'm pulling us forward. And then on the other side of an earth hologram, you see Namorita. Now, Wolfsbane is a woman who is a feral cat person.

She's got a mutant ability to, you know, like change, and she's Irish, her name's Reign and all this. Please describe her posture to Nova. She's hanging off of him. I mean, she has... His arm is bulging too. Oh yeah, no, he's got quite the bicep going on going on and she is on standing kind of close to him and elbow to the tit yeah yeah she has got one one hand on his shoulder the other one on his arm and yeah hanging on him right like now take a look at Namorita's posture and her eyes.

I'm looking at her eye line and I'm thinking she's not looking at that hologram. No, she's not. Okay. So you see it too. She's clearly not. No. Right. I mean, if she's supposed to be, they muffed that. She is, she is very clearly looking at Nova and in Wolfsbane.

And her, her posture is. Uh, affronted. A front. Yeah. Her, her shoulders are back in a way that's kind of like, oh, oh really? Mm-hmm. That's kind of, yeah, the, there's a little bit of a how very dare you kind of stance going on.

Right. And I mean, she has the name or family eyebrow line. She does. So it's kind of hard to tell how much of that is just, you know, it's being deployed here, though. Like you look at the other picture, it's not there. Yeah. It's like, like, is that is that the is that the Atlantean brow line or is that actually an expression?

Yeah. It looks like an expression here. And she does not look pleased. Right. So you're starting to see some jealousy poke through. Now at this point, they are not together. They are flirty friends, but it's clear there's chemistry. She ends up dating a guy, he ends up dating a gal. It's very much will they, won't they?

The entirety of the first 25 issues There is no romantic contact between the two of them There's tenderness. There is kindness. There's much more of this kind of stuff the the the flirty stuff, but there's no romantic contact it actually is Spoiler alert this is gonna turn into a relationship, but not for like 39 issues like a slow fucking burn. Yeah And as things progress the flirting gets more sex-based now, they're both adults But the development of the new warriors over time has matured rich quite a bit and that's why we're gonna be getting off this train soon When it's like issue 23 or so they're're stealing the Queen Jet, the Queen Jet from the Avengers to get to Cambodia to stop Ty, the housekeeper.

Turns out she's a mastermind and she's trying to plug the world well of souls so she can take all the power for herself, you know, like you do. So the thing is that the Queen Jet is held in the Avengers' hangar. There's a ton of security, but they have a guy with them who's on the Avengers his name is rage Elden Holliday Thing is rage is only 14, but the Avengers don't know it which is wild to me that they don't background check but this is the time of This is I mean this is the time of secret identities, right? So for the longest time they didn't know Tony Stark was Iron Man.

So the doors are closing from above, so they've been found out, and Nemurita shouts, hurry. And Nova's response is, hey, wingtips, which, cute. When you say fast fast you say Nova. Sorry to hear that. Excuse me? Nothing. Oh. Ha ha. Yeah. Wow.

Now, that's uh. Ha ha. Wow. Right. Now, that's uh, wow. Right. So after the first major story arc is over, after about the 25th or 26th issue, Nightthrasher, I mean this largely is surrounding him, his creation of the new warriors and all that. Like, there's people that step to the fore and step to the back, but the overarching plot is about him.

He's kind of back benched at this point, and Namorita takes on a leadership role, and Nova kind of becomes a big support for her. They kind of co-lead in a lot of ways. Pretty much he supports her in the field. They begin to rely on each other a lot more, trusting each other more, backing each other more. They even trade foes sometimes as they're bantering.

He's like, hey, this guy seems more your speed. Do you wanna trade? And she's like, yeah, take this guy. And they literally switch and just beat the shit out of these people. Nice. So, and then he starts dating a gal from Yale, which, exactly, right? So and then he starts dating a gal from Yale Which

Exactly right And this is for a short ish stint. It takes a while it genuinely he dates her on and off Meanwhile in Namorita indulges her wild side for a bit she had gotten the shit kicked out of her by a a guy named Sea Urchin. And it was, I think his name was like Jacob Swimming Bear. He was a Native American villain who was stealing Atlantean things. And he beats the shit out of her.

Like cuts her hair so that she has very short hair, scalps her. He even calls it that. And he said this is what your people did and then he's like well the pink side of you anyway Wow because you know she's half human um and so he beats the shit out of her she puts on like revenge Atlantean armor um and this is like you never put this on unless you plan to kill somebody and she's like I know what I'm doing You know like name or tries to stop her from seeking revenge. She's like fuck this

She almost kills the guy she ends up in court against him a couple times She she struggles against him and and Then she's the leader of the new warriors and and she's also running She's the leader of the New Warriors, and she's also running either a full part of Oracle or the whole corporation for her uncle. And there's a lot of pressure on her, and she's trying to do well in college and all this stuff, and she's trying to be a leader of the New Warriors.

And she ends up needing to let loose and indulge her wild side. She goes out and she parties and somebody slips her a Mickey and she sleeps with him and He this is a long plan. He's part of this gang called. I think the poison memories and They didn't like what night thrasher had done to their gang in an earlier issue. It's kind of like, oh, you remember these villains that they easily beat the shit out of?

They're back for revenge. And they basically are like, we can't hurt these guys directly, but we do have technology from AIM, if we ever capture any of them, that'll dampen their shit. And also, if we could find out their secret identities we can really fuck people up. He sleeps with her and steals her address book which means that they now have all of the names of all of the identities of all of the superheroes. So the result is while she's dealing with this and Rich is dating the gal from Yale, the Poison Memories, or Poison Dragons maybe, I think it's Poison Memories though, they

attack all of their family members. Rage's grandmother is killed, straight up murdered. Speedball's father gets kidnapped. Firestar's father gets shot and left for dead. He eventually recovers. Nova's brother gets kidnapped and they cut off his finger on the phone with the new warriors. And this is all because they want revenge on the new warriors. And this is all because they want revenge on the new warriors.

And as a result, Nova and Namorita are almost at each other's throat over this. She blames herself for the slip up. And understandably so. Right. This is her responsibility. Yeah. I would even say it's her fault. Although there's some question as to you know her being Drugged yeah manipulated. Yeah, but it definitely falls on her responsibility and She's insanely feeling guilty about this and Nova is pissed because he just heard his brother get his finger cut off

But he's not really pissed at her. But he is enraged. And he vents it on her because she's like, we have to go and do this. He's like, no, you don't get a fucking say here. That was my brother getting brutalized. And I know that you're beating yourself up over this. I don't give a shit right now because we gotta do this the right way to save people. Which is very mature. And I mean, he's going off on her,

but at the same time, he's like, I get how you feel and we can't act on that. So stuff it. So there's some shit going on there, but like he's also, there's some shit going on there, but like he's also there's there's a layer that's that's falling away from him So that storyline ends as well as it can everyone is completely marred by grief Firestar's father recovers some and it's a slow road to recovery

So he goes from being working class to being you know basically crippled. And they struggle. Nova's brother actually takes it really, really well. He's like, look, man, the shit that you do, how many millions of people have you saved? I lost a finger. Like, this sucks. I don't want to do this again. But like, it's cool. I don't want to do this again But like it's cool. I don't blame you like you know go on um yeah, she blames herself quite a bit and namorita is looking to leave and then there is an issue where they go into a Arab coded country

okay, and she's basically put in the middle of a civil war and she chooses not to act, which allows a guy to murder a guy that makes things harder on America. And she's getting questioned by Henry Guyrich and she points out to him, she's like, and he's like, you know, and you're a traitor to this country. She's like, how can I be a traitor to this country? I'm not a fucking citizen here. Nice. And like, you know, but like all this pressure really gets to her.

I mean, they end up on it like an MTV video reality show, interview show, and they're taking questions from teenagers and they basically take a drubbing in the press about how they handled this thing at a place called Trans-Sibol. how they handled this thing at a place called Tronsabal and and You know, it's it's they were clearly in a bad position at in an unwinnable situation, etc Etc and she feels insanely guilty about that, too

So she's looking to leave Now meanwhile, you might remember Rich Ryder's parents asked him to move out. So he's been living at the crash pad for a while. Nobody's around. He's walking around and flying around in his underwear and a backwards hat for some reason. It's the 90s. It was the 90s, yeah. So he comes around the corner and he's like, oh shit, Nita, you know, basically.

And she's like, hey, nice drawers. And he's like, he's like, oh shit, Nita, you know, basically. And she's like, Hey, nice drawers. And he's like, ah, and she's like, look, man, Marky Mark got a huge billboard up in Times Square. You're fine. Nice. Yeah. And, and, you know, he's putting on his pants. He's like, well, that's rich coming from somebody sitting at the

computer wearing a bikini, uh, which he's trying to get one back at her, you know, essentially, but like, okay, this is a sexually charged moment. Like he's in his skivvies, she's effectively in hers. They banter, she teases him, he teases her, and then she tells him that she came to say goodbye, and then they kiss fucking finally. Mm-hmm. And I think it's like issue number 39. Wow. And then she leaves.

Now in her absence, okay so Night Thrasher is on again off again. She's gone. She goes back to Atlantis and we'll get back to her. Meanwhile Nova runs into a guy named Garthinsal. Garthinsal is another Nova, and he calls himself the Supernova. So you know he's a bad guy. And he really jogs Nova's sense of responsibility

into overdrive because he's like, you will give me your powers so that I can go do the right thing, or I will kill you and take them. And then it's like, oh, those stakes aren't deep enough? Fine, I will fuck your and take them. And he's and then it's like oh those stakes aren't deep enough fine I will fuck your world up etc. And so then the spirit of Xandar the Queen Xandaria or whatever her name was she shows up and she's like yeah in order for Xandar to live Nova's got to die sorry and Speedball's like what the fuck is wrong with you people?

Which is awesome And of course Nova he fights this off and and he's got the help of his friends and all this but like He emerges from this. He almost dies of course He spends a lot more time in space in this particular iteration and he emerges a much more serious more angsty and self-aware hero than ever before and It's it's getting to the point where he sees he's ceasing to be sad teenage Peter Parker Now real quick because I'm still talking about their romance Namorita it has gone to Atlantis like I said, and she's having massive

emotional issues and actually that's only in part due to her guilt over Trans-Sibol and the boys' memories thing. It's also partly a manifestation of her body changing again. I mean, you know, this tale is old as time the problem with semi clones of two different genetic makeups. Am I right? Yeah, so she turns blue Starts calling herself Chimeria She sees herself as a monster Namor is like you're not a fucking monster. You're an Atlantean. She's like well you can pass and he's like yeah Um, so can you but more importantly you don't have to go to your friends

and ask them how they feel about it. They're gonna accept you. And so she kind of, she does, she takes off. She's scared to hell, even though she's like, yeah, I'm more lethal and more badass now. And she shows up at the crash pad and essentially she runs into Nova again and they play out the whole,

do you still love me even though I'm blue shtick. And the way he lets her know of course is to kiss her again and now they're a couple. And this lasts for a while complete with them doing sexy time things like he comes over to her house to she invites him over for a cup of coffee and he's complaining and they have kind of that that bantery relationship still right cup of coffee and he's complaining and they have kind of that that bantery relationship still right? He's complaining he's like you know when I've asked a person for a cup of coffee that's what I meant. I didn't know I was coming over here to fix your jacuzzi and she's like well you fix it we could test it out but I don't want clothes to get in the way of the water

That kind of shit right yeah, okay, okay, so You know a lot of innuendo, but they they end up fading to the background for the series for a while because We've already answered their question right will they won't they they will and okay. It doesn't matter now. Um They are still the heavies, they're still a couple, but it's not that interesting. So then we start focusing on other characters. And ultimately they end up falling apart because toward the end of the series,

actually, it's in the beginning. So he gets his own release in 99 as a comic book. So I believe it's Nova, volume three, maybe volume 2 but in 99 he gets his own release as a comic book and in it he's still dating her and in it he still do no new warrior shit because we're not done with the new warriors quite yet okay actually I know I think the new warrior stuff kind of

gets handled through the Nova comic for a while Like the Nova comics have gone away But okay. Yes the volume 3 run, but so she goes through another series of physical changes Most importantly her body turns into giant blisters filled with pus filled with pus. Okay, that's- And she asks, and he's going through some shit. And she asks him, you know, do you still love me? Do my looks matter?

And he doesn't answer her quickly enough, which she reads as he's trying to figure out the right way to say yes but lie to her. Right. So she fucks off, she leaves and then she when she's home She takes a shower and in the shower all of the boils burst and she's back to being white not blue. Okay? But unfortunately the damage is done. She is very upset that he saw her as a monster even though he didn't see her as a monster he had his own shit he was dealing with and so

She sleeps with one of his best friends from high school Wow to get back at him for not being there for her. It's 1999 And at this point, they're both kind of trying to hurt each other It's it's a really toxic relationship at this point as it's falling apart It's a really toxic relationship at this point as it's falling apart. Sounds like it. Yeah, and then it does fall apart, right? And this was the volume three run of Nova. And ultimately all of this is what causes Nova to sever ties with the new warriors and go off into space.

And it's right before, right before they start filming the reality TV show okay now Namorita so this is this is like the really horribly drawn new warriors iteration yeah like volume 2 or volume 3 Namorita stays with the team and it was literally under her knuckles that nitro blows up, instantly killing her, as well as more than 600 inhabitants of Stanford, Connecticut. Wow, okay. Now while this is going on, Nova is busy fighting in the Annihilation storyline way across the galaxy.

Xandar got destroyed by Annihilus. He's the only Nova that's left. The entire world brain is in his helmet and the strain is unbearable and he's trying to cobble together some sort of defense, but mostly he's just going and putting out fires and trying to stop, you know, entire extinction events. And so he's doing that until he can get a foothold. At one point he's finally built up enough of the Nova Corps again he's built up enough of a defense that world brain is just like you've got to take a fucking break you cannot keep going at this pace I'm not gonna work for you

until you take some shore leave so he goes back to earth to be of this family yeah and that's all cool except that when he shows up and like his mom's like, his parents are shocked and they're like, we thought you were dead. He's like, you thought I was fucking dead. And they're like, well at first, but then we figured it out. You weren't with the new warriors when they all died. What?

Exactly, he's like, what? And I believe his, I think his mom tells him that. And then he, because he's not registered, because Tony Stark, they all show up at his front door, and he's like, what, are we fighting?

What the fuck? And I think he ends up fighting diamond head again at one point and like beats the shit out of him because now he's like Novus and Turian with the world mind. His power signature is off the fucking chart and Stark says something like that too he's like you are not the same guy who left like you're very different so Novus like, shit's been happening. Did you maybe not consider in the middle of your whole, you know, registration programs that like,

there's a not insignificant percentage of the superhuman population that's literally not on this planet at any given time. Right. Well, Superhuman population that's literally not on this planet at any given time Right. Well, I think I mean it Absolutely. Okay, so there's a part where you know when they're talking registration Yeah, T'Challa is like you can't register me. I'm the king of another fucking country And then there's kind of talk about like well, then you're not welcome on the soil Then are you like there's there's some back and forth about jurisdiction and shit like that and he's like I dare you to fucking

Come to Wakanda then You know like so anyway, so so rich is yeah, no kidding So rich like meets with Tony Stark and Tony Stark's like we would really like you to register Like you're really powerful, so that would be nice. But also, you're a former new warrior, and that would look really good. It would look like people are capable of change and rehab. And he's like, what are you, like,

my friends are fucking dead, man. And he's like, well, yes, that's true, but like, you're really powerful, and out of respect to you, I wanna give you time to think about this and how much time do you need and Nova's like give me 24 hours you know and and again at this point he is a seasoned veteran of an intergalactic war he has organized and created like yeah yeah the only reason I'm talking about this is because it still ties back to Namorita a little bit

The only reason I'm talking about this is because it still ties back to Namorita a little bit. Because he is no longer teenage Nova. He is adult rich writer. All of that shit has just sloughed off completely. He's no longer comparable to Spider-Man in any real way. But this does still tie back to Namorita. So he ends up meeting with Justice, who used to be called Marvel Boy, who wasn't part of the New Warriors when Stanford happened. Right.

And who is mourning the loss of all of his friends. I think he and Firestar were actually on the Avengers at the time. And the two of them caught hella shit because of what happened, because of former associations. And he registered, and he's like, dude, I was on the resistance for a while, but like, you gotta register.

It's a new world, this is just how it is, you gotta register. And Nova says, he's talking to him, he's like, so did everybody fucking die? And he's confirming it, and Justice says, Dwayne, Nita, they died. We thought Robbie was dead too, but he made it. And then Nova says, I can't believe Namarita's dead. And Robbie survived? And the conversation about her is almost completely over, but for a passing reference by Justice that

Nova, like basically, I know you loved her. And in fairness, I think Nova's kind of moved past that because they'd broken up and then he went out into the world or into the universe and then he and Gamora became a power couple. And I'm sorry, when the most dangerous woman in the world lets you tap that. Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna forget your Earth girlfriend.

Although he still loved her, you know, and all that kind of stuff. But like, he is so many years past that kind of shit in like the six months that he's been doing this. And that's almost where I'm gonna leave off. The Nova that does The Annihilation and everything else like that is not the same Rich Ryder as he'd started off as.

He's an adult, he's leading a war effort, he has grown up, he is no longer, in his own mind, he's no longer a loser. In his own mind, he's no longer the sad boy. He's got the thousand yard stare because he's in a war but he has embraced The responsibility it is no longer a source of escape for him. It is fully who he is he is no longer rich rider and That's that's that's the thing he's he's an adult he's

You know and annihilation was an amazing storyline. I will go into depth in it on some day. But, because his growth in there is the most growth. I would like to point out a parallel here though. Nova fell in love with Namorita. Rich Ryder fell in love with Namorita Prentice. Peter Parker fell in love with number eight apprentice. Yeah Peter Parker fell in love with grunt when Stacy

Okay, um after that Peter Parker was a sad boy Yes, that's a fair assessment he He was still in college. Yeah Nova is a sad boy For most of his time Yeah, they take different routes to get there, but they both are there and and then Peter becomes an adult and Marries MJ and and it's not the marrying MJ that that ages him up. She actually rejects him for marriage like three times before. He ages up because he ages up. And he's having to work hard and all that kind of stuff. But like, he's an adult.

And he does this earlier, Nova does, but they both end up being single adults dealing with the heartbreak and being hella powerful and being seditious and being wise beyond their years and certainly beyond their beginnings because after the Civil War, Peter Parker does the one final day deal that he makes with Mephisto

where they sacrifice his relationship with Mary Jane so that Aunt May can live, which which is just he really should have looked at actuarial tables Yeah, yeah But I also I kind of understand letting go of Mary Jane because It's that resentment would have just settled in for the both of them On some levels like they even have that talk and it could be that like he he comes to accept that he's gonna be single and alone forever through that because I Because I mean his his relationship with Gwen Stacy ended with a snap Yeah

Yeah but So they both are and by the way when What's her name hope the the mutant named hope? She the the Phoenix is threatening to come back and inhabit hope it's it's AVX. It's Avengers vs. X-Men. Yeah hope at one point is absconded to like cunlun and Peter Parker's there and they're like keep an eye on her and he's like, okay, and she's like well You're supposed to teach me shit and he's like, I don't fucking know and then he's like I didn't know it

Okay with great power comes great responsibility. She's like, what the hell does that mean? He's like, I don't know, my uncle used to say it. And then he gives this really long soliloquy about the importance of responsibility and stuff like that. And he is sedacious. He is the veteran giving advice to young folks now. And he did that to Nova in the very first six issues

of the original Nova. But now Nova is at that level. But so the last part I'm gonna leave you with is the reason that I started these episodes. There's an issue from the Nova volume three series and I don't remember what the issue was but I did save the pictures for myself which is you know useless in terms of sourcing it but you know if my

brother ever listens to this he would be able to tell me I put them in the chat so you can kind of read along there is a young novice in Turion talking with him as they're battling and he's you know helping him in the battle and he says I have to ask why and Nova responds why what so this is this is Nova Prime Nova this is this is Rich Rider at at peak badassery mmery, caught everybody, he's recruited people, he has taught the Nova-ness to everyone, so he's top of the heap.

He is no longer a punk teenager in any way. So the kid asks, he's not quite a kid, but he's youngish, he says, I have to ask why. Nova says, why what? Why pick me? I'm so completely average, ordinary, a loser. Exactly, you are ordinary. What? You are also loyal, trustworthy, and plain spoken. You are an average young man from an average life. The Corps always recruits

individuals who best represent the typical qualities of their species. We find they make the very best centurions. They bring no arrogance or pride with them, no self-importance or elitism. They understand the responsibility. They appreciate the trust. They embrace the duty. They are the honest bedrock of the core. Does that make sense? Now, help me save your world. Okay, so then there's this far-flung future issue that happens and And rich writer is old He's on his deathbed

But he's you know old grizzled veteran rich writer Mm-hmm in space and he's commanding a battle and he's in and out of consciousness and he's calling out for Roman day And he's commanding a battle and he's in and out of consciousness and he's calling out for Roman day the guy who gave him his powers to begin with and there's a Nova Centurion over watching him during the battle and and he asks her for a status report and He's like, you know, I guess the battle started and she says yes, sir full-scale engagement orbital and surface He says how are we doing? She says, I don't really know. Actually, I think this is a young man, actually. But the features are just feminized enough that I couldn't tell. So in my mind, it was a young lady. She says, I don't really

know. I'm just an ordinary, he says, ordinary. No, that's good. An average young man from an average life, loyal, trustworthy, and plain spoken. And this scene basically continues with him repeating the exact same dialogue as I've just said above. It's this wonderful coda from Nova as a young man. And that's the strength of the character. Like he is absolutely average. He always has been and he still matured through that. He finished as he started, holy average and holy mid. Thus his growth and excellent wasn't ever born of being a demi-god or a mutation or a lineage. It was his doing his best with what middling abilities he had from

anywhere from his athletics to his intelligence. Spider-Man basically told him the same in in issue six. And Spider-Man got his powers by accident but he was brilliant and that was part of his character. But both of them recognized the responsibility of their great powers. It's just that Nova showed us that anyone could do it. Now, it could be that that speaks to my Gen X heart, given that his beginnings and mine are roughly 18 months apart from each other. It could be that the idea that anybody could have been Nova, and it's the strength of one's character,

and it's just the choices that we make, that's just so incredibly attractive to me. But I just absolutely love that you had this guy who was the sad boy Peter Parker. You had this guy who was the sad boy Peter Parker. You had this guy who was the the the middling-est, least good, most average-est character. And that was built into him.

And at the very end of his life, he's saying that's where the strength of all that is Nova comes from. Yeah, that's compelling. Yeah, so that's that's that's important in that. Yeah, right. So what'd you glean? I gleaned that I think at the very end it's a it's a profound maybe isn't the word I'm looking for but it's a it's a really powerful statement about heroism. That it isn't like you said, it's not any inborn talent. It isn't some gift. It's about the choices you make. You know, choosing to be the guy that does that, choosing to be the person that, you know, does the heroic thing. And that, um, and I think your, your kind of toss off comment about, you know, uh, it's

speaking to you as a Gen Xer. I think there's something definitely to that, partly because of the 25 year arc that we see, that we've already talked about. But generationally, Um, we were not told the way that the, you know, the boomers before us were, um, we're treated like something cherished. We are the least parented generation in modern history, possibly in history period. And at the same time, kind of gaslit into thinking that we need to be excellent. Oh yeah. To be worthy of something. And which leads to all kinds of toxic shit of like the most mediocre people

thinking that they're special and hurting others as a result. Yeah, definitely. And so the idea that he has grown and developed and turned into somebody who is, who has those qualities. Like he grew into those qualities. He developed those qualities. And now he isn't ordinary. Now he isn't, you know, any one of any one of a million.

He is now one in a million. Right. You know, but that's because of growing into that role. It isn't, again, it isn't, it's, it's a process rather than an innate, a gift or ability. Yes, that part, that part especially. Like that means any of us could do it. Yeah.

And not, you know, here's what makes a hero, the luck of the radiation. Yeah. Or the luck of the genome. Yeah. Or the luck of an alien picking you. Yeah. It's that thing an alien picking you. Yeah. It's that thing that's inborn.

Like, I mean, you know, it's, you know, years ago, we talked about how Hawkeye should get more love. Yeah. Because he's got no powers. And I mean, one of the reasons I love Sam Wilson so much was because in Winter Soldier, he says hey, I do just I do everything he does just slower. It's like Oh Like that's courage like, you know, and not just showing up. Yeah

Moral courage. Yeah. Yeah, and and that And that's what it takes. And there's a whole lot more of us, like just by the very definition of mediocrity, there's a whole lot more of us who are mediocre than who are excellent. And excellence is not a requirement. It's that last part. So yeah, that is absolutely why he is in my top five favorites. You know, is those last bits that I got to read to you. Like...

Yeah. No, I like that. You know, how can you beat that? Again, he's got pretty vanilla powers. He's got, you know... Yeah. He kept surviving and he kept pushing. That was it.

Yeah. And in the end, that's what it takes So so all right, yeah well, uh What are you what are you recommending to people this week? Well right now what I'm gonna recommend is The dream quest of unknown cadath by H.P. Lovecraft. It is a novella and you're going to have to find it in an anthology somewhere. One that I recommend is the dream cycle of H.P. Lovecraft, Dreams of Terror and Death,

which is quite the title. Um, dream quest of unknown cat ass is a great example of weird fiction that does not quite completely fall under horror. Um, it is creepy, it is unsettling and it brushes up against that, but it's not, um, it is, it is not the same kind of, you know, finish the book and sleep with the lights on, uh, for days that a lot of Lovecraft stuff winds up being.

Um, and it's a great example of what he was capable of doing in terms of mood and tone. And I'm recommending it because of what I'm going to be talking about next and the idea of a multiverse and walking between universes is tangentially related multiverse and walking between universes is tangentially related to that. So that's my recommendation. How about you? I'm going to actually, you're going to love this. I'm going to recommend the frog and toad storybook treasury.

Oh, lovely. Oh yeah. I, I love frog and toad. I had a therapist once tell me Damien, stop being an architect, start being a gardener. And there's a lot of wisdom to that. Oh my gosh. Oh. Look at that. That's, wow, there's a lot there. So much, so much. But that immediately took me back to the book

where Toad tries to grow a garden and he's angry that it's not growing fast enough. And instead of just letting it be, he actually gets on the ground and yells at the plants to grow faster. And there's something so evocative to that that part right there for me as a dad as a teacher as a partner when I was single yeah like oh like as a comic like just I need this to happen now. God damn it.

It's like, I need to guard the garden better. Fucking do what I want. You know, it's like, yeah, it's like, no, it's a garden. You it's a garden. You need to back up and let go. Yeah. And I don't know. It feels like that is a good, um even a palate cleanser, but a reinforcement

of the lessons of Nova. And I know that people are gonna think it's ridiculous how much stock I put in this character, but I really think he is the best lesson. And I studied all of the ancient Greek and ancient Roman shit. They were always about you have to be the most special Different culture absolutely There by cosmology

Yeah, yeah, yeah was built. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm not I'm not throwing shade But it's like one of those like I grew up reading reading those. I grew up with superheroes, all the superheroes, right? And they're all special and they're all really cool. That's why they're superheroes, you know? And then for this one to do this, it's just so good. And yeah, you know, we should all learn the patience that Toad had to learn. And then sit there and eat a cookie like he and frog did

Yes, eat another and then say we should stop eating and then they had another There's just such wonderful books people need that. Yeah. So Anyway, all right You very likely don't want to be found. So where can they find where can they find our podcast? Where can they find our podcast? Electively we can be found at wubba wubba wubba dot geek history time.com. That is our website. We have an archive there of everything that we have put out into the ether so far.

So take a look at what's there. See what catches your interest and, and bounce from topic to topic We are also on the Apple podcast app and on Stitch no Spotify Spotify and the Amazon podcast app Wherever it is that you have found us please take a moment to subscribe and give us the five-star review that you know we deserve and That's it for us. Where can you be found individually? September 6th and October 4th and November 1st, you will find me at the comedy spot in

Sacramento at 9 p.m. slinging puns with capital punishment. We've been doing it eight years and you should. Yeah. You should come out and check that shit out. If you can't come out to the show and kick in the 12 bucks for a ticket, kick in six bucks for a digital ticket

and stream it in your underwear at home. And then send me pictures of that. I'm looking at you folks in Austria and Canada. But there you go. I'm looking at you folks in Austria and Canada. But there you go. But yeah, you should stream it and tell your friends to come over and watch it, all of you in your underwear. Or you could come see it in person,

but I recommend you wear more than just your underwear. But I'm not gonna king shame. So there you go. But local law enforcement might have issues. They might. We'll see. You know, be the test case. It's fine. I mean, it's at the comedy spot. We're right across from badlands and faces. I'm sure you'll be fine. Okay, well, yeah, right. Yeah. You know, but yeah, come check out Capital Punishment. My partner Justine Lopez and I

are just having the grandest time bringing some of the best guests and just, oh my god, the puns are you will groan, you will laugh, you'll do everything in between and on either side. So it's a lot of fun. Nice. Yeah. So, all right, well, for a geek history of time, blue blazes. And keep rolling twice.