A Geek History of Time - Episode 283 - Whomsoever Is Worthy, or, Who Could Weild Mjolnir

Episode Date: September 27, 2024

Okay, so there are two possibilities going on here. One, you're bringing up a term that I have never heard before. The other possibility is that this is a term I've heard before but it involves a language that uses pronunciation That's different from Latin it and so you have no idea how to say it properly an intensely 80s post-apocalyptic Schlock film and schlong film, you know, it's been over 20 years, but spoilers Okay, so so the Resident Catholic thinking about that. We're going for low Earth orbit. There is no rational. Blame it on me after.

And you know, I will. They mean it is two o'clock in the fucking morning. Where I am. I don't think you can get very much more homosexual panic than that. No. Which I don't know if that's better. I mean, you guys are Catholics. You tell me. I'm just kind of excited that like you and producer George will have something to talk about

That basically just means that I can show up and get fed I'm going to go to the bathroom. This is a Geek History of Time. Where we connect nerdery to the real world. My name is Ed Blaylock. I'm a world history teacher here in Northern California and earlier today, my son, I was telling my son that it was time to go into his room and take rest time. We don't have naps anymore, but we do have rest time. And was telling him, all right, time to go in. And I got the usual, ah, like I always do.

And I held my arms out for a hug I said hey come here and I was sitting on the couch and he was on the carpet in the middle of our living room and he got up and went from zero to full speed in just half a stride and then Caught his big toe on his trailing foot on the carpet Oh hitched forward uncontrolled and his noggin clacked solidly into the point of my chin Hard enough to slam my jaw shut and if I did not have a beard. I'm sure you could see the bruise going on he's fine of course because he's six and all of his bones are made out of rubber

But So you know it's one more reminder that my my kid is not as little anymore He now has enough mass you know when he when he gets moving he has a fast that he can he can really cause some damage so You know the takeaway the good news is he's growing. So there you go How about you Well, I'm Damian Harmony. I am a US history teacher up here in the Northern, California area And it just it's funny Like I my immediate thought was like well if he did that to me

I have a couple chins down there, so I'd be fine It would just disperse all the damage like a wrestler falling doing a flat back bump You know or just assume a wrestler taking a taking a hand to the gullet right exactly you know so But then the other thought I had was like you're like yeah he's big enough to do that I'm like you know my kids are behemoths and and so I'm like I don't know but then again it's relative to parental size too yeah yes yes my daughter's three inches shorter than you like yeah it's like my are yeah, they're Highlanders um Actually just before we got on to recording um yeah, you know I had a little bit of time to spare So I went on to an old website that I just absolutely love I

Used to use it to print these things out and then put them in people's boxes anonymously at work And it's a spy robot. I put them in people's boxes anonymously at work, and it's in Spyrobot. I am familiar with in Spyrobot. Utter nonsense. Partly from your Facebook feed, but yes, I am also otherwise familiar with in Spyrobot. So I would just put those in people's mailboxes at work,

anonymously. Which is great. How are you, how do you not have a Discordian membership card in your pocket? Like I don't like joining places. I mean, yeah, I didn't know there was an honor society I had the highest GPA in the entire college when it came to history like I don't fucking know Dean's list What the hell's that? I don't want to be on a list Who's watching me? Right talking about?

You know, yeah, so my daughter and I have just been laughing our asses off over in Spirobot for the last 20 minutes. Well yeah, because especially for an absurdist at heart like you. Yes, yes. It's fantastic. I will just read to you a few that I have generated because I saved six for just this occasion. First, we lose our right to freak out, to freak out about the law of attraction. Then we lose our right to imitate our pride. I don't know. You carry the potential.

Do you smell burnt toast? Right. There's one where it's the Hindenburg burning and falling to the ground. And it says, make each and every boyfriend feel amazing. It's like, what the fuck? Or yeah. Or there's this woman who's like on on a swing in the wilderness, in like very, very gowny gown. And it says values are annoying

Wow I love it and so she's saving a bunch So I'm pretty sure the iPad downstairs will be filled with expired robot means by the time we're done recording tonight Cool yeah, you know follow your bliss. Yeah, whatever whatever shape that may take right? so tonight's podcast I have titled who is worthy or Damien needs a break from the horrible shit. He researches Okay, I think everybody needs a break for the horrible shit research Okay, so I Right. I am. So I am 110% down for this.

Now according to Thor himself, the power of the Thor is the power to be worthy to wield Mjolnir. And that's the power to hold storms back. That's what he said in Immortal Thor issue five, which was released in December of 2023. He says this to Toranos, the guy that they're fighting at the time, that quote, the power of Thor is to hold the storm back. And my greatest power, my greatest strength,

that it took me longest to learn is knowledge, if how to use my power well, with compassion, with restraint restraint with nobility with hard-won wisdom and most of all with humility a Fine tautology is it not the power of Thor is the power to be worthy Yeah, yeah, it is I I do I do appreciate that they they call out the tautology yes involved in that that's okay and that Thor is like a plus for self

awareness right that self aware like he is not the guy that we saw in the beginning of the first Thor movie in the MCU he is not no not a guy that's shaking down small-time hoods who are stealing fur coats in 1965 um which I'm still like what the fuck what the hell yeah well you know you're you're you're trying to try to make your name trying to make your bones as a superhero you gotta do what you gotta do sure sure you know what's what's that you've

done you you've defeated searcher three times oh Oh, yeah. Yeah, but also Those guys aren't letting shit drop off the back of their truck anymore. Yeah Yeah, well, you know every little bit counts yeah, yeah now Thor then goes on to explain that he can grant the power to others Deputizing any number of folks which we saw actually in love and thunder Storm called him out in defeating Toronto she said quote make him want the hammer give him the hammer then infect him with the hammer and the agony of conscience I mean I see what she's saying there that's a that's an awkward fucking line of dialogue it is it is I mean I get cut off from what context there was,

but that's basically, that's how they defeated Tyrannus. Oh, you want the power? Here you go. And it's like, I want to do good things now, fuck! It's like that kind of. God damn it! Right? I've been de-villified.

So compassion, restraint, nobility, wisdom, and humility. And that wisdom is a hard one. Now, here's who's held it so far. There are nearly two dozen different beings, and I've given us a list, and there may be some here who weren't counted in the original census, which is just going to up the number. But the people who have wielded the power of Thor, who have wielded Mjolnir, who have been worthy. Thor, obviously. Storm.

Frog. Beta Ray Bill. I don't know why Storm on there twice cap. Yeah Loki Yep Jane Foster, yeah, yeah, yeah, Rano's Who who I just mentioned but he's a god that Thor fought with a team of Thors and Who wielded the wheel of fate as a weapon? Okay, so he's he's the one from 2023 Magneto

Okay, black widow Okay, that's not Tony Stark Well, humility is required. Right. So, obviously, no. Yeah. So Superman, Wonder Woman. Okay. Vision.

Okay, vision, yeah. Well, okay, but like you put the hammer in an elevator elevator goes up is the elevator worthy, right? Well, that's that vision has a consciousness though So he counts silver surfer Okay, Odin which I don't that's a mulligan. Yeah Yeah, Conan the barbarian Fuck yeah

the four or Conan the Barbarian Fuck yeah the floor Okay, which is just like so in battle world when doom ruled the universe and shit like that There was one world that was the Thor core and it was literally buddy cop Thor's so they all had a Mjolnir Pretty cool You know yeah very very Thor core Black Panther I I want to I want to oh yeah a metal band now called Thor core Well, no, that's that's just gonna be the genre of our music okay Thor called called mitts there you go. Yeah Perfect. I like it Black Panther and hella

Which again I feel like Loki and hella are kind of Mulligans. I Will okay being a you know, you know how some people are Greek mythology nerds I'm I'm a Norse mythology nerd. Okay, and that in that kind of way and Well, this is Marvel mythology though. So granted. Yeah, okay. All right. Yeah, okay then otherwise Yes, there's a long list before we get to Loki's daughter. Yeah, um, right, you know, yeah, so Now that that's who who has held it so I cannot say that any of them are unworthy Not Tony Stark, right? Not really start. I feel like that needs to be reiterated I you know when I say not Tony Stark right not really start I feel like that needs to be reiterated I

I know when I say not Tony Stark. I mean I mean not Tony Stark. Yeah So in non Marvel fiction I have come up with a list of whom so ever should be so worthy Okay, all right first off no one else in DC moving on um so Okay, all right first off no one else in DC moving on um so uh wait Okay, sure sure quibble. I'm yeah cool And oh damn it now John Stewart Green Lantern Corps really I don't I don't think so why I don't think so because He doesn't he to me. yeah doesn't seem that wise or humble

How familiar are you with the different people who've been Green Lantern I Might be mixing him up with others Okay, the which one is this the og? No, okay. No no no and this is not the one who found his girlfriend in a refrigerator? No, no, no. Okay. This is the one and only black green lantern. There's too many colors in there, lanterns.

Are they still affected? Well, I'm sorry, but black green. It's like pickmores. Yeah, I know, I know, I know. But no, no, I mean, he is a black man. Who is a green lantern. Oh, okay, okay, gotcha. I mean, are these still is a he is a black man. Are they saying? Oh, okay? Okay? Gotcha Yeah, are they still limited by the color yellow? That's been toned way way way back, but it's still there

I It's been a long time since I since I it's like finding tonsil teeth like it's still there. Yeah Still there not why right? I'm sorry if the color yellow fucks you up. You're not wise Well, but it's not it's not a personality defect on their part It's a it's an inbuilt it's like you know the right is a device. Yeah, yeah It's so I that doesn't that doesn't affect their wisdom. And of the individuals who've, who've held, who have held a, a green lantern, of the humans, I should say, who've, who've been granted a green lantern

green, uh, John Stewart is, is the best. Man. See, if you had said John Stewart, I would have said maybe. Well, yeah. He's still not worthy, I'm sorry, no. But, okay, I'll tell you what, we'll hold your guy up at the end

and see if he measures up to these folks in fiction. All right, fine. Okay, and I've divided this into fiction, history, and present day. Okay. Okay, so in and present day. Okay. Okay. So in fiction, Mr. Miyagi. Okay, I can see that.

Born in 1925 on the island of Okinawa in the Tomi village. He worked for his best friend's dad, the richest man in the whole village. His best friend named Sato. His father taught him karate and fishing. Miyagi fell in love with a gal named Yukie who was arranged to be married to Sato. But the heart wants what the heart wants and so Miyagi declared his love in front of the village for Yukie. Now I'd point out he went right at it. He did not run away. He did not offer to elope or anything He straight-up told everyone

blouted tradition And to me that's noble. So that's one Okay, he didn't sneak away or anything like that Now, of course his friend challenged him to a fight to the death for this dishonor which meant that he would have to kill his best friend That sucks. So instead Miyagi then left and ended up in Hawaii, which means that he practiced restraint. Because he would have killed the shit out of Sato.

Okay. Now, canonically, Miyagi never doubted his abilities in karate, and since his own dad had taught Sato, it's a reasonable assumption to make that he had no reason to doubt those abilities. He moved on with his life and he worked on the sugar can plantations in Hawaii. Right. Now, oddly, he and his wife were incarcerated under Order 9066, which they must have been traveling to California when it came to fruit? Yeah, they would have. There's some part of the narrative that's not mentioned where he had moved to the western continental United States.

Or they're just not informed well enough. The writers don't know. They didn't know that the one place that was attacked by the Japanese Navy was the one place one place Yeah, anybody of Japanese heritage. Yes, and was It wasn't no because the 440 442nd regimental combat team Now that's what Miyagi fought out of two Okay, so he wasn't he couldn't have been interned out of Hawaii because I think the 101st or the 100 there something with a one different It was a different different unit out of Hawaii. So so since he was 442nd. He would have had to be

So the only other thing is possibly that his status as an immigrant from Okinawa put him on the Department of Defense's radar Possible racism radar, so it's metric, not psychometric. Either way, he spends the war in Manzanar until he joins the 442nd. While he is fighting, he lost his wife and their child and childbirth because Manzanar's medical staff is woefully inadequate, which makes sense when you realize

that the guy who developed these camps was the same guy who'd run the BIA for a long time. Oh, great. Yeah. Okay. So, he's like, what's that? You want to gather people up and put them under military guard? The BIA has some ideas. Yeah.

Now after the war, Miyagi never did much else. He just became a maintenance man who restored old cars and maintained a garden. Humility. he just became a maintenance man who restored old cars and maintained a garden, humility. And when he saw Daniel getting, he saw Daniel's bike all sorts of fucked up, he fixed it. And when he saw Daniel getting all sorts of fucked up, he stepped in, compassion. Okay.

Now Miyagi's methods for teaching Daniel how to fight are super different than what you'd find in most of the areas dojos He focused on balance not just physical balance, but also emotional psychological and life balance wisdom Yeah, he never never puffed himself up never had cardboard cutouts of himself and he never felt the need to prove himself, right? Which apparently everybody else in that valley That's how you karate'd.

Yeah. He simply went about his life and helped folks when they needed it. He constantly told Daniel to go and do the right thing for himself and for others tending to his own needs on his own. It's only at Daniel's insistence on getting involved that Miyagi allows himself to go on such a lark to Okinawa where Miyagi buries the hatchet with his friend Sato. And he continues to teach Daniel in new and important ways to defend himself better from the crane kick to the drum thing to just using a kata in the middle of a battle. So again, nobility, humility. Miyagi can wield Mjolnir and he's 100% going to use it to drive nails into his fence

Yes, yeah, yes definitely no argument Okay, 10 out of 10. I buy it. All right next one from fiction wig-laf wig-alph wig Wig-laf wig-laf him from the distant cousin of Beowulf or his nephew depending on which read to give yeah Okay, but anyway Beowulf not worthy Well no Beowulf is is First movie Thor right yeah, no humility whatsoever like a badass absolutely Better armed than his opponent by the end of the fight whatsoever like a badass absolutely

Better armed than his opponent by the end of the fight but um But yeah, no yeah now. That's not their fault. It's just how their culture works the short version Wig laugh is it wig laugh we laugh Like that's wig laughs, okay, so he doesn't go eating cats and like with long hair. OK, no, no, no. Honking on horns with the fright. OK, he's not from Melmac.

OK, cool. So anyway, we laugh. He is one of the things who goes with Beowulf to fight the dragon. This is all post Grendel. Beowulf damages his own sword and we's shield is totally burned up in the affair. The other thanes end up petrified of the dragon, unable to overcome their fear. Wiglaf steps the fuck up, rebukes them for their fear, steps up further, shouts encouragements the whole time, and wounds the dragon so that it can't breathe fire anymore after Baelwulf destroys his own sword, cutting her throat open and getting mortally burned in the process. Wiglaf still obeys his uncle-cousin and

piles up her treasures where Beowulf can see them and builds his cousin-uncle a funeral pyre. After the funeral, Wiglaf banishes all the other Thanes for their cowardice, doesn't kill them, and he lets the Geats know how fucked they are now that Beowulf is dead Now as Beowulf died he gave wig laugh his royal regalia as a father might give to a son. So nobility restraint wisdom humility and compassion all together all in that move He's the only one that I mentioned who's who would actually wield Mjolnir in battle too.

Okay, um all of that I see. With the exception of what you you managed to point by point by point get all of those except I'm not I'm not catching the humility like I've got the wisdom mm-hmm I've got the compassion and and you know the nobility is obviously yeah well yeah nobility is literal and the restraint he doesn't just kill the geese and say y'all are fucked, the the humility comes in recognizing I am not my uncle cousin Okay, the geeks are gonna try are gonna struggle. Okay. All right. All right, then you know what? Um Yeah, okay. Okay. I'll go with and and I think it's I think it's interesting that You're choosing a character from just about the earliest

the earliest codified Example of English literature that we know of mm-hmm and a figure who is expressly Christianized in the text yes whilst being actually at the time of the legend having first been formed, was undoubtedly a pagan who likely would have worshipped some form of maybe not by the name Thor right being Anglo-saxon

I don't remember what the Anglo-saxon name for him was but you know Somebody who actually would have had a relationship with Thor yeah, yeah as an example so hat tip I like it. Thank you now the next one Maggie re All right, I'm gonna need some details on this one. This name does not immediately jump out at me. She is a badass through and through. She's killed countless zombies, protected countless people,

and led great warriors in both battle and peace. So if you remember your Walking Dead, this should start to focus right. Right, okay, okay. So her husband's name was Glenn, her father's name was Herschel. Right, right, right okay okay so her husband's name was Glenn her father's name was Herschel right right right okay okay now she also has the ability to care for others both in training and in capability she's regularly made the leader of wherever she goes she puts the needs of her

community hilltop and Alexandria and everywhere else above her own even when she wants to distance herself from Alexandria and the kingdom later in later seasons, she ends up unable to do so, such is her compassion. She's a natural born leader who doesn't want it, so there's your nobility and your humility. She's got zero superpowers, but she doesn't let that stop her from doing everything her community needs her to do. When she could have killed Negan in revenge for her husband's murder, she does not. Her hand is stayed, and she anguishes over that for all the rest of the seasons. When she could have killed Gregory, she gave him chance after chance after chance to be not as much of a shit. She also didn't assassinate the governor despite his almost attempted rape of her, as well as his murder of her dad.

So she has a lot of restraint. Yeah. And yet she does use death as a useful tool. She does have Gregory hanged after he fucks them over and tries to take power for the umpteenth time. She also sends one of the Saviors back to Negan in a coffin as a warning to back the fuck off. She knows that he speaks violence and she addresses him in his native tongue. I like that analogy. Good. in his native tongue. I like that analogy.

Good. And while she did have Gregory killed, she also let Earl go free because she saw that he had relapsed into alcoholism, something that she knew quite a bit about with her father. Wisdom is knowing when to use peace and when to use force and she does both aptly hell she even makes me know sorry especially in a Norse Pagan kind of context that's that's Yeah, oh, yeah very appropriate very much So she even makes sure to use condoms with Glenn the first time they have sex because she doesn't know him that well

despite wanting to get laid Sorry, it's so common sense at the very least. Yeah, incredibly wise. She would wield Mjolnir, but likely use it as the final part of a trap to stop whatever threat was actually encroaching on her community. Yeah, sounds about right. Okay. So, the next character. So, so far I think I'm what, three for three? Yeah, yeah, so far I haven't. The next one is the only Star Wars character to make the list

I'm intrigued fn-2187 Alright, yeah, all right. Yeah. Yeah, he has a moment of awakening a call to action and he immediately follows it You could actually say that he has a really bad day at work and goes on a murder spree but whatever he grew up with these people it is a little weird that he just turns around starts blasting them all but whatever okay cool okay you know hey call to action he does have the hero's journey set before him and then gets interrupted by a few people but be set by self-doubt despite immediately following it he is be set by self-doubt

quote stay calm stay calm and then pose like I am calm he's like I'm talking to myself and he doubts himself but he never doubts the rightness of his action he doesn't know the way and at first he's only seeking to escape Telling Ray and Max that there's only one escape right or maz sorry it autocorrected maz kanata the Apricot yeah telling them that there's only escape no defeating the first order But the whole time he never actually turns away from doing the rightest thing at his disposal, nor does he insist on being the center of the rebellion. He knows that he's the least Finn formed besides Rey. So there's humility there, self-awareness, and wisdom.

Now, Finn instinctively saves Poe and Ray within a day of each other, both at great suffering of his own. There's nobility. And he knows the penalty for desertion and in subordination. Hell, he faced the penalty for not killing innocents and non-combatants and he still didn't fire. That's compassion as fuck. And most importantly, every chance he gets to grow, he takes, he goes from being a traitor scum to being rebel scum. He go, and he chooses that. An important step.

It is. A critically important step, yes. I mean, they don't give him much screen time, but he shows us that. He goes from, yeah. It is one of the things I am angriest at a certain segment of Star Wars fandom about mm-hmm that

the Screaming and hollering after episode Wait Seven yeah This Star Wars woke made Star Wars woke meant that the I am I am Convinced you will not be able to change my mind on this Mm-hmm. I am convinced that part of the plan was for Finn to also Become will the force yeah, yeah become a Jedi I agree

I agree to be to be raised like right hand student or whatever You know yeah, or just you know each of them occupy different aspects of the four yeah Yeah, and you know and that would have been absolutely fucking amazing I'm forgetting the actor's name right now, but he's he's awesome. He's an oh, yeah amazing amazing performer Finn is like what we did get was an awesome character that got criminally underutilized, right? So John Boyega is his name by John Boyega. Yeah. Yeah, sorry. It took me a minute to I was like wait We are talking about Finn, right? Yeah, John Boyega is his name by John Boyega. Yeah. Yeah, sorry. It took me a minute to I was like wait We are talking about Finn, right? Yeah, John Boyega and

Yeah, what we did not we did not get what I think we deserved no and it's and it's because Well, no, we don't we don't want to go in that direction because the fans don't don't like that Uh, well, no, we don't we don't want to go in that direction because the fans don't don't like that. Um, was almost undoubtedly part of the conversation. Mm hmm. And like, we look at what we could have had. This could be us, but but you got to be bitchy about shit.

You know, though. I mean, the moment in Episode seven where where he ignited the lightsaber was like I was Giddy yeah at that now. It's interesting because I compare that to the cap wielding Mjolnir scene But yeah at that point Finn had not Had enough under his belt to be worthy enough to wield Mjolnir quite on yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah Yeah, but yeah now he goes from being rebel scum to being a leader and Then he immediately turns around and acknowledges that he needs Poe to help him and that Poe also needs him

So he subsumes himself to the mission leading a cavalry charge in space while others are doing flashier stuff Yep, humility recharge in space while others are doing flashier stuff. Yep. Humility. Yep. Yep. The mission is more important than any one individual. Yeah. And so the only piece we're missing is restraint.

He has a chance to murder the shit out of Phasma. And instead... Not just killer. No, no. Murder the shit out of her. Yeah. Just killer no right murder the shit out of her yeah, and instead he turns her over to Han who favors trash compactors Now Phasma would have killed him oh

Even later tries to execute him like he's a heartbeat away from it Given the chance she said as much but Finn will not do that he seeks seeks to end her threat, not her. Restraint. Alright, ten-four. Now that's it for fictional characters, largely because I don't know that much fiction. The properties that I know, I've covered. So, you know, listeners, if you've got other suggestions, remember it needs to be those five things However, I do know my history Okay, so and and I think I appreciate some of the names on this list given what you're right

All right, so the first one the first one in history who could have wielded me all near right Suleiman the Magnificent All right, I'm Suleiman the Magnificent. Also known as Suleiman the Lawgiver. He is the 10th Ottoman Sultan. He is the Ottoman Caliph. He is the Amir al-Muminin, the custodian of the two holy mosques, Caesar of Rome, the Khagan, Salim 1's successor He's the titles are the titles are amazing So So right off the bat we have nobility Yes, okay, he's a man who is a king among kings. Yes He's a man who ruled in the 1500s for 46 years when the average life expectancy was less than that 46 years when the average life expectancy was less than that. This man expanded the Ottoman Empire the farthest into Europe that it would ever go.

He took it from being a pretty powerful, I would say, regional power to being a global power in as much as such a thing existed at the time. Now he was a great conqueror and strategist but wars do not make one great. He knew when and where to stop. He let people run their own shit so long as they did right by his empire. He divided up Armenia, Georgia, and Kurdistan with the Safavids. Instead of going into a long and costly war, he said, you know what? Enough's enough. We're good. We've got what we need here. Yeah. As a result...

So restraint. Mm-hmm. His expansion was solid and safe for Ottomans. And he did the same thing on the ocean. He opened excellent trade with the Mughals to the east in a way that the Portuguese were never able to do. So you've got restraint and the strength that comes from that. Well, to be, I mean, to be fair, sure. It's easier on a number of levels when what you're sharing with a power like the Mughals is a land border rather than having to sail around the southern tip of Africa also sharing a lot more religion with

There are several factors that go there that there absolutely are you know but but points still taken yeah Yeah, I mean you know Thor got to wield me on there his dad was Odin. I mean like you know there's there's some gimmies right yeah Dad was Odin. I mean, you know, there's there's some gimmies, right? Yeah. So you've got the restraint, right? He also read the entire legal code for the Ottoman Empire. Tons of wisdom involved in that. Lots of jurisprudence and balancing the needs for the practical with which he adheres to Islamic law. And yet in so doing he also set up for a number of hospitals, libraries, baths, or housing, free food distribution centers, and other civil services. So now we've got compassion.

Yeah. As you'd said, his nobility is obvious, but you can also look at how the arts flourished under him if you want. People switched from Persian to Turkish for their poetry. They began to appreciate Ottoman art. So all of that flows from nobility. Okay. Now if you need humility, which is what most people need from leaders like this, look at his poetry and the fact that he used a pen name in order to avoid people stumbling all over themselves to complement his work for who he was. All right, for somebody in such a lofty position, he is a remarkably down-to-earth well-rounded common-sense individual.

So instead he let his work speak for him and with many of his verses ending up as Proverbs like quote Many try for the same meaning but there are countless versions of the story nonetheless That's credited to him. All right. He would wield Thor's hammer using it as a beacon to rile up and inspire his armies All right. Yeah fair. All right those bard levels like we always saw. Yeah. Yep. Now the next guy So would you agree? Yeah, I would I would I would yeah, you've made a compelling case there I Have I have no reason to to quibble on that one all right, so these next two You know I never said they had to be virtuous to do these things

Or not brutal um but the next one Hannibal Barca Um, but the next one Hannibal Barca Okay, hey again, all right look at who else has gotten to wield it You know Hannibal could be in that list so yeah, he is not whom I'd assume to be virtuous, but he is a motherfucking badass He took a vow at the age of nine The fact that the Romans feared him above all others for 20 straight years, and the fact that even after his defeat, he made Scipio Africanus gawk at a dinner table

at how matter of fact badass he remained in self-imposed exile in Greece. The fact that he got booted from Carthage for fighting to end corruption so that Carthage could pay its tributes to Rome and not do so on the backs of the poor. You take your pick. All right, all right.

But he absolutely struck fear into the hearts of the biggest villains in the Mediterranean at the time too. And after he, and those are the Romans. Duh, yeah. That's more for our listeners. You and I know the Romans was bad. Yeah, but Bifton and yeah Empire Yeah, exactly. I love that example of yours. All right And after he finished doing that despite losing ultimately he continued to live a pretty good life

He helped when and where he could and he made Rome keep tabs on him So he was like no. No, I going to go over here to Greece now. Y'all better keep... Okay, we got to follow him and make sure he's not doing bad stuff, which keeps them from attacking other people. Polybius wrote this about him, quote, It is a remarkable and very cogent proof of Hannibal's having been, by nature, a real leader,

and far superior to anyone else in statesmanship, that though he spent 17 years in the field, passed through so many barbarous countries and employed to aid him in desperate and extraordinary enterprises, numbers of men of different nations and languages, no one ever dreamt of conspiring against him, nor was he ever deserted by those who had once joined him or submitted to him. So your enemy said about you. deserted by those who had once joined him or submitted to him. So your enemy said about a compelling. Yeah. Well, you, yes, yes.

And, and hundreds of years later, hundreds of years later. And now who was it who said that about him? Polybius. Polybius. What I am reminded of in that is Tacitus speaking of the Germans. Fair. Which for everybody who's not a history student with their nose up their own butt, what that is is in a later period, Tacitus wrote of the Germans in very admiring terms, even though they were the traditional enemies of Rome. The biggest boogeyman besides Hannibal. Yeah, besides Hannibal. They were the other big boogeymen. They were the northern boogeymen. Yes. They were the

northern boogeymen and they were a boogeyman collectively whereas Hannibal managed to be one all on his lonesome. Right. Oh, which like credit to him for that. Yeah. Just by itself. But Tacitus spoke of the Germans in these terms of admiring their vitality and the masculinity of their of their men and the virility of their culture and you know the the martial honor that they had and all of these kinds of things and he was saying all of that as a way of on the backhand

commenting pejoratively on his fellow Romans and so what you're saying there, I hear the same tone of yeah, it's not like y'all. Okay, but I would I would I'm gonna push back, you know, all of those things were acceptable praises of fighting ability of barbarians. They were not softened and effeminized by culture like we Romans are which is again backhand compliment, right? They're so masculine because they're so far out in nature This is all about this dude's wisdom and nobility and his ability to inspire Those are Roman. Okay. Those are very Roman traits. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I I see what you're saying. I I still There's there's

I've been hard to pinpoint exactly the the line there That makes me feel like it's also coming on like you know we can't stop backbiting and stabbing each other in the fud It's you know talking about yeah, we ever thought that's ramp that is like you know we can't stop backbiting and stabbing each other When was when was Polybius? backbiting and stabbing each other When was when was Polybius? If I if I'm correct, he was in the 200 CE but I might have him mixed up with somebody else because I often okay so by that time we had had at least one of the Year of four emperors year. Oh, I'm sorry. No, he's 200 BC. Oh 200 BC. So he's right after

Oh, so he's I apologize. He 200 BC. So he's right after oh, so he's He's still okay still still in the Republic. Yeah Okay, and the Republic I mean because because later on Livy would be like Oh if Alexander turned left instead of right we would have whooped his ass We want to keep his eyes and but then he lists for three chapters All his reasons had to do with the fact that Rome its strength is its democracy and its strength is our ability to get along we don't need strong men to lead us any of us can be leaders we don't and this great Alexander we have a system like he was he was honestly have institutions yeah he was wrong he was like Rome is the San Antonio Spurs

Alexander the Great is Kobe like and guess what happened, you know, yeah, okay. All right fair fair But Polybius is like no this guy is Jordan Okay So, okay. See see now now that I have the timeline the context of the timeline there look at you studying historiography To have this course done I'm like like I'm alternately fascinated, and then I'll move to some other part of the reading. I'm like oh my god Will you get to the fucking point you euro trash?

Sorry the analysis, the analysis, everybody in the analysis. Oh, the analysis. I knew you were getting there. Told you trade winds matter. I told you episodes ago trade with batter trade when yes, you're right. Apparently they mean everything. Uh, if you're a Frenchman writing about history in the 60s into the 1970s apparently yes But anyway, um, you want to explain Charles de Gaulle's rise to power in 1968. You have to explain the Phoenicians It's just how it goes

And their use of copper, you know what this is our podcast Fuck I'm an analysis. Yeah Our podcast hi how you doing? Oh? Fuck I'm an analysis yeah In any way to bring this back to an area where you know our Listeners can actually follow along who aren't pointy-headed dorks The the knowing that this is somebody writing at Really kind of one of the points where the Republic is at its strongest. Just proven itself to. Yeah. Yeah. Changes the the context of that enough for me that I I am going to take back my really though I I'm gonna. I'm pulling that back. Yeah

Because that's that is that is somebody who looks over goes yes He is our enemy and it is important that we respect him Because if we underestimate him that will go badly we lost a lot of senators last time Do we want to do that again? well Yeah, the plebs are like Now if he were to wield me on here he would absolutely use it to break rocks in half in the Alps Yes, yes, he would he would use it to blast a wider trail

Mm-hmm for his elephants to get through so he'd get more than one and yeah Yeah, and and he would probably also use it to to lay low multiple Testudo swaths yeah Yeah, so Yeah, yeah, so the next one actually also an enemy of Rome No, the queen of what we would call the I see nigh, but they're the Kenny Budica

Fuck yes. Yes, fuck yes female Hannibal And if you also became also became a boogie woman yes, yes like like in the Claudian imagination she is British female Hannibal yeah, yeah absolutely terrifying everything she did she did to throw off the oppressive yoke of Rome So we're talking compassion for her people nobility obviously. She's queen, and the way that she carried out her war shows wisdom. Recall that the Romans in preceding years had slaughtered all of the druids, they had beaten and raped her and her daughters, and generally been very Roman. And murdered her husband.

No, her husband died. Yeah, her husband died and the problem, what led to all of this was that he left half his empire to Rome and half his empire to her, which was normal. This is what they do. The Romans were like, we want it all and we want to make sure that you are obedient. So we're going to make your daughters in front of you and we're going to beat the shit out of you in front of your people. And she was like, oh, it's fucking on now. So Tacitus, Tacitus,

writing nearly three generations after the fact, assigned an imagined speech to her in a way that only Romans can. So no, she didn't actually say it, but this was how her conquerors characterized her and saw her. Quote, but now she said, it is not as a woman descended from noble ancestry, but as one of the people that I am avenging lost freedom, my scourged body, the outraged chastity of my daughters.

Roman lust has gone so far that not our very persons, nor even age or virginity are left unpolluted. But heaven is on the side of a righteous vengeance. A legion which dared to fight has perished. The rest are hiding themselves in their camp or are thinking anxiously of flight. They will not sustain even the din and the shout of so many thousands, much less our charge and our blows. If you weigh well the strength of the armies and the causes of the war, you will see that in this battle you must conquer or die. This is a woman's resolve. As for men, they may live and be slaves.

Hardcore. The ovaries on this woman Yeah, yeah, oh like like yeah one of the things that that I find Interesting about that number one In antiquity of course historians assigning speeches to people yes, I mean that goes that's herodotus does that oh? I mean, it's like it was it was a device device I'm starting to think herodotus was a comedian Boy he needed he needed to work. He needed to work on like his five-minute set or whatever you know

Okay, but he was he was a comedian who only did current events Like if you start to think of it that way Like having people go to the Spartans and expect more than a two-word reply is kind of funny to everyone Yeah, okay fair. You know yeah, all right, but I might need to dig into that soon But anyway might you use so I would I would dig that but so assigning a speech But in that in that speed what I find So assigning a speech but in that in that speed what I find Entertaining about that is what that tells us about the Romans

Because what we know from what little evidence remains to us of Britannic Celtic culture. Mm-hmm. The the assault that the Romans committed on her daughter's daughters, plural, would have, I mean, obviously it would have been, you know, the reason for going on a bloody rampage of revenge. The emphasis that Tacitus puts on their virginity and their chastity was something that in Celtic society was not nearly as big a deal No, yeah, yeah, that's it would have been you came into my home, and you tortured My daughters in front of me. Yes, you you it would have just been no no no

I don't give a shit about their virginity. I give a shit about the fact that you committed sexual assault mm-hmm their virginity I give a shit about the fact that you committed sexual assault mm-hmm whereas for talking to us like the whole emphasis isn't the barbarity of the act itself it's the loss of like to a Roman their marriage value right no absolutely absolutely wow are you damning yourself there? Like, what kind of bricks are you? Well, and Cassidy's wouldn't have been like, oh, yeah, guys, we had this coming either. Like he's fully on Rome's side. Yeah. No, of course.

Romans were interesting that way. They were very warts and all. It was like, yeah, we did horrible shit. We won Yeah, like Well, it's because at this point because Takutas is now writing 60 years after her attacks, so that's six years after Claudius, so we're talking I mean we're talking the height of the Roman Empire. We're talking like yeah, we're talking yeah You know so this is this is the pagan. this is the pagan Empire mm-hmm and so concepts that

we take for granted as being you know values of human rights right the Rome is like what do you mean every individual life is valuable. Right. Like if nobody's going to remember you after you're gay, every life is valuable. All right. Sure. Dignity. What the fuck? No. Right. If you die, we have dignity. That's given to you as a citizen. If you're the leader, what? Maybe you don't understand our words like yeah Teach them yeah, if you are if you are an important person Mm-hmm, then then you are Important if you're not an important person then who gives a shit right and hey, you know you rise up, but You're still yeah, you know maybe someday you could be a Tribune of the plebs

Probably not probably Probably not. Yeah. So, yeah. So yeah. In retaliation and in an attempt to make Britannia free from the Thames to the ocean, Budica burned the shit out of Camaldunum, which we now know as Colester. And then Verulamium, which we now know as St. Albans, before finally fighting a losing battle against the Romans at Londinium. I don't know what that word ended up meaning.

All told, Boudicca killed about 80,000 Romans. Hell yes. And Cassius Dio described her as, quote, in stature she was very tall, in appearance most terrifying, in the glance of her eye most fierce, and in her voice was harsh. A great mass of the taniest hair fell to her hips. Around her neck was a large golden necklace, and she wore a tunic of diverse colors,

over which a thick mantle was fastened with a brooch. This was her invariable attire. Okay, so yes, you're describing a Britonic Celtic noblewoman. Yes. Like... Yeah. Yeah. She would absolutely wield the fuck out of Mjolnir and use it to both bash in Roman skulls and to drive the stakes down

upon which their bodies of Roman women Noble women were posted with her breasts sewn into their mouths. Oh Shit yeah, I had forgotten that detail. I So I may have blocked that detail so with Hannibal you could absolutely Elbow me and say okay. What about humility? I'll be like there was that dinner party. You're right with her I think you could elbow me about restraint But I would also point out that restraint in the face of oppression doesn't get you anywhere Yeah, I yeah

Wow Doesn't get you anywhere. Yeah, I yeah. Wow. I'm this one as much as much as I would very much like to see somebody portray. This one. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to give me all their the Molle crusher to. I'm going to give Mjolnir the Moloch crusher to a Boudicca and just let her go nuts. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. As much as I would love to see that depicted, I feel like there's not like the, the arc on this one. The arc on this one is not in the direction of wisdom. It's in the direction of

When you pursue revenge dig two graves Maybe but I would say her first two battles She showed total wisdom Okay, I'm going to burn them while they're in their barracks Yeah, I'm not gonna do a pitch battle you fucking kidding me kidding and then yes You did get egged into a pitch battle and they were slaughtered. I think like the total Roman casualties was like under a hundred Oh, yeah, the final and the final battle at Londinium. Yeah, the Romans the Romans basically the Romans had seen what it was that She was doing yeah, and they

They did the saw to their yeah. Yeah, and just meat grinder the shit out of out of all the Britons Yeah, it was bad. It was very bad. Yeah. Well they they figured out Okay, she has found ways to prevent us from using our greatest strengths Mm-hmm, and so now we need to make sure that we deny her right hers, right? You know, it's it's it's the old, you know, just classically don't get drawn into a battle on your opponent's terms. Exactly. And she did.

And she did. And I would argue that like the arc would be first two battles, she has Mjolnir and she's just mowing faces, right? Just just like carnage everywhere and I am here for it. Yeah, and then third battle She can't pick the hammer up like yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah Third battle she Peter quills it and all of a sudden you can't pick up the hammer Yeah, yeah, and and that would be my caveat there sure sure so I'm gonna. I'm gonna give you 0.75 okay, okay on that one um Smedley Butler Okay, he's the only American to make my list.

Yeah. Feel free to challenge it, but ol' Gimlet I himself spent 30 years in combat situations throughout the world, including defending Americans during the Boxer Rebellion. He lessened the impact of influenza on the army when they were sending over six soldiers during World War One because he started using duck boards and quarantine tents and he did it himself. He's like, fuck it, you guys aren't doing it fast enough. I'm going to grab them myself and do it. And that's when he was running the show. He hated the colonialism that he'd become a tool of enough to go on a speaking tour and write the famed book war is a racket and Oh, yeah, he continued to do his fucking duty when fascists came a calling

Mm-hmm. So dude had mad compassion for all of the people that he was in charge of be they Native populations that America was over lording like he did everything he could to minimize their casualties He took care of his men to to an incredible extent. He had restraint he never William Callie to anybody Yeah He had nobility He absolutely acted in the most noble way he could and especially without that speaking to her afterward he's like, we did some fucked up shit and this is not

okay. Hard won wisdom. And he had the humility to be like, I'm not leading any of this shit. You don't get to like, patter to my, you know, oh cool, the foreign legion soldiers, they really like me the the veterans Yeah, they really like me you don't get to like patter to my my my pride about that I need to keep them safe and he turned people into Congress. So he has all five Yeah, I'm I'm the one the one thing I want to point out. Uh-huh critical important point

You mentioned in the context of World War one and influenza You talked about the army. Yes, and I want to make clear He was a Marine Corps officer. That's true which Having grown up in a Navy family, that's a critically important distinction. And to anybody who is who has been or is a Marine, it's and actually anybody in the military, it's it's it any quibbles with any of the other portions of what you're talking about. So the fact that he was a Marine Corps officer did not make him not in charge of the off-boarding for everybody.

Oh no, yeah, no, correct. Correct I just I wanted I wanted to put the fact that he was a marine yeah just this fact he was a marine yeah yeah um so yeah he he was he was in charge of debarkation and and all of that and yes all everything you're talking about 110% I Would really want to dig down a little bit on Because he he certainly you know the speaking tour in the book and all that I Don't know enough to sign off right away on The part about protecting Americans during the Boxer Rebellion.

Oh, no, he did that. Because, well, I know that he does not make Western hours look good in the process of defending their own people? No, that's true, but he basically did all he could to keep his men safe and the people under his charge safe. And remember this was when he was, this is before he got to Nicaragua, before he got to Nicaragua before he got to Haiti before he got back to Haiti Before I mean he was used all throughout the Caribbean and he was used and he recognized this later as I was used You prop up American

Colonialism, okay, so did his duty the best he could for his men while he was still actively serving when he Serving is when he said he looked back and reflected He had that ability and he's like, all right And by the way, he got like there was like this archway that he was gifted by The Chinese people who were also being attacked by the Boxer Rebellion who he kept safe. Oh, yeah I forget the words that were on it, but it was essentially like you protected us Thank you, and he always felt incredibly grateful for that recognition and that gift mm-hmm

So all right then yeah, yeah Okay, I would I would argue that this is another case where the arc of his experience Means that yeah later later in his arc Yes, no, and he turned like yeah, I wouldn't give him the all-near until He goes on a speaking tour All right fair enough and and at that point he would have used mejolnir on his coffee table and told the guys who came to him saying, Hey, we want you to run the military end of the fascist coup. He says, all right, lift that up first. Nice, I like it. Yeah. The next and last one from history is Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba.

is Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba, the Angolan queen of the 17th century who held off the Portuguese at a time where Europe was powerful as fuck. All right, I'm already on board. All right, now she did this via playing the Portuguese off against the Dutch, which I mean, sorry, anybody should do, but she did it first. And by marrying strategically to a warlord who'd support her fight against the Portuguese

to gain back much of the Ndongo territories that the Portuguese had stolen for their slave trade. Now, after the Dutch had dipped out of Angola, Nzinga continued to fight the Portuguese until they finally sued for peace in 1658. She got a European power to sue for peace. Okay. Now, she was the daughter of the king, so that takes care of nobility. Nobility, yeah.

But also legend had it that she was born with her umbilical cord around her neck, which in Ndongo culture meant that she had supernatural gifts being born to adversity like that. So All right, nobility fair Nzinga grew up at a time when the Ndongo was in massive crisis due to the Portuguese and their influence in the area for the Slave trade that they had started Her brother was given reign after their father died and she had to flee to Matamba Because her brother was looking to kill her. Her brother continued to fight against the Portuguese but ineffectively. He had the verve but he lacked the talent. Nzinga

had it all but she lacked the manpower hence her marriage to a guy named Casa of the Imbangala who was also the guardian of her nephew because you did that back then. Yeah, yeah. Her brother died and named Nzinga as his heir. So I couldn't kill her, let her be in charge. Since I'm dead, she's not a threat to me anymore, so it's hers. So now she also immediately started negotiating with the Portuguese, which would of course go on to upset many Ndongo nobles, But she knew that once her brother had died and with the instability that had happened with that

That she would need a reprieve in order to consolidate power and take their lands back ultimately so that to me speaks of wisdom Okay, now once those negotiations broke down over the return of Portuguese slaves to her people the Portuguese then demanded fealty She said, fuck no. And she began encouraging other enslaved people to run away from the Portuguese, destabilizing their power in the area. The Portuguese had actually made inroads with others who thought that they should rule the Ndongo territory and so she ended up having to fight them off too now and Zingo game bided her time bide bade bode Shat her died it bided her time Suffering crushing defeats and the enslavement of many of her people while she was on the run By 1628 her fortunes had been so fucked up by the Portuguese that the various and the various

Vassalages that they had set up that she basically was fully expelled from the place that she was queen of from Ndongo Okay, then she goes and makes another marriage with Cassandra of the M Bangala her traditional enemy So she'd been married to um oh Shit, I forgot his name God what was the guy's name the the warlord that supported her Sorry, I'm looking back sorry lost casa casa she had been married to casa and now she is

The damn the page jumped so now I'm like I forget which paragraph I'm on. Yeah I hate it when that happens. Yeah. Okay yeah. So she married Cassandra of the Iman Gala, her traditional enemy. Now the enemy of my enemy and all that kind of stuff So humility like I don't like these people, but this will help free my people I'm going to do it. I'm not going to stand on pride now and now yeah when you say her traditional enemy the traditional enemy of the the Don't go okay her people not her first husband right Right. Okay. Yeah making sure. All right. Yeah No, actually, I'm sorry

Casa and Kasanje. I think they're two different people. Yeah But so then she invades nearby Matamba with him and captures their Queen and She was supposed to execute that Queen per imbang in Bangala custom and she was supposed to execute that Queen per in Bangala custom and she refused despite her husband being one of the head warlords of that area. She's like, no, we don't kill her. We don't need to. There's your restraint. Okay.

All right. Yeah. Now she was not by our standards a kind or compassionate leader. She clearly sought power much in the same way that Odin or Doom did and she was highly ambitious about it. The amount of brutality she committed, the amount of authoritarianism she exhibited is way beyond what I would find acceptable, but she's also not that different than what I saw in Hannibal or Boudicca. She's ruthless but she's every bit as a stabilizing force as someone who holds back the storm. She held back the Portuguese

storm and for the next century after her death 80 of those years saw a strong woman leader in the Ndongo and Matamba areas. So her compassion comes in freeing her people from the Portuguese. Her compassion comes in pushing them out of predating upon her people. There's her compassion. Her restraint comes from not killing the queen of the Matamba that she had taken over. The wisdom comes in how she keeps power and how she keeps getting away from those

who would kill her. She's ruthless as fuck, but again, so was Odin, and so was Victor von doom But I would say her compassion is measured in how she kept her people free of the Portuguese yoke I Less convinced on that last point in regard to compassion Sure sure and again our ideas of compassion are gonna be different than Norse ideas of compassion too well one but also and

again I'm going to throw this one back at you this is Marvel comic book nor sad is a good point that is a good point and it is it is all well and good and meaningful and I don't mean to make that sound as condescending as it was about to but it's it's good to to make a claim for okay the compassion here is the compassion for the freedom freedom of our own people there is an individual component to compassion in the manner in which Marvel's writers would have used the term. That if we look at her record in dealing with her own people individually, when you talk about the authoritarian, you know, iron fist brutality kind of stuff.

Sure. I think that makes it harder to credit that. I would agree with you. If you see what I'm saying. I would agree with you, but for the fact that Storm wielded Mjolnir and she straight up stabbed Callisto in the heart and stepped away and said I'm the leader that bitch is dead. Okay. So here's a question now hold on and Magneto fucker killed everybody.

10 for there. Yeah. But but storm. When storm straight up just gacked Kalisto. Yep. Um Good was that before or after Thor's really pretty talk about these are the components of having the power to wield well before but Shortly before shortly before she ends up wielding me all near for the first time, too All right, so before shortly before she ends up wielding me all near for the first time too. Alright. So. And I would also point out that keep in mind who else has has wielded me all near successfully. They got blood on their hands too. Like.

Fair enough. Alright. Alright. So. And you could argue well Storm was rescuing Angel. That's true. She killed one to save one. This woman literally said don't kill a queen And she also led Really bad wars to usurp power and stuff like that to keep her people safe I would say her ratio probably stayed within Storm's murder to rescue ratio. Okay But all right now I strongly suspect that someone more learned than me, I'm looking right at you, could argue both for you, Faye, and Foo Howe, but my knowledge of the famed general

and the other famed general, who was a woman, are quite honestly lacking enough that I do not feel confident arguing for them, but I bet you they would at least be on the honorable mention list Yeah The first one that you mentioned. Mm-hmm you found you fe or you a fair Well, I think it's you you fe okay. What what period was God um you fe was in the

1600s I want to say okay, that's that's late enough in in no, I'm sorry she was in the 1100s, okay? No, he Sorry, the other one Yeah, uh foo how was the woman, okay? Yeah Because the figure that immediately actually comes to my mind isn't out of Chinese history isn't either one of them but it's the founder of the On dynasty

Okay, whose name right now I am forgetting but who was a commoner who rose to a position under the chin and then in the post chin chaos Had to exercise an awful lot of wisdom to stay alive and Restraint whatever right you know in all the pieces together and then together a new dynasty Yeah, yeah, and and inspire a bunch of people who were bigger ass kickers than he was Mm-hmm

And it also kind of needed to know when to selectively betray them Yeah, again not values that we would hold or that maybe Marvel Comics would hold but at that time like yeah 100% There's your wisdom. There's your nobility. There's your compassion. Yeah, you know, so yeah Yeah, so okay. Now, let's talk about people in our lifetimes Okay, here are my arguments now. This might be where the weakest is because in our lifetimes We've had experience with these people existing so and and a prophet is never recognized in his in his own town. That's a good point So in comedy you have to go and be excellent everywhere else before you could headline in your home club Yeah, same same exact argument. Yeah

So alright So I want you to put into chat Who you think my first person in our lifetimes would be That would be our lifetime. Yes, that would be worthy of wielding me all near someone who has lived in our lifetime Have you put that into the chat okay, I'm gonna need to think about this so you're gonna need to pause it for a second Hold on okay, I will pause it starting now So two minutes later, I'm seeing that the chat is still empty so yeah

I'm so so the thing is most of the conversations that you and I have had about Figures in our own time, right? Have regularly involved people getting just ripped to shreds and like, you know, roast like, like you, you you can rant for lack of a better word, and I don't mean it pejoratively, but you can go on a tear about. Yeah. My friends have a drinking game about me. Yeah. Yeah, like you you you are capable of going on a rant about mother Teresa Who okay? Terrible example, yeah. Well, but you get what I'm saying, you know, yeah Yeah, now people are like hungrily going to their internet going what's wrong with mother Teresa?

I was wrong with why would you an asshole? Yeah? Yes. Yes, the case the case has been made. Yeah. Yeah so All right, I genuinely I'm struggling with this and I know that you're gonna say the name and I'm gonna be like motherfucker Yep, let's just pull that band-aid right Rogers Son of a bitch, you know now First and foremost you don't get that calm being not the most worthy person to ever walk Yeah ever walk. He fought for public television, a thing that was specifically made to benefit

the poorest amongst us. He was a holy man and he spoke to a generation of people growing up showing them that you can be powerful without ever thinking about how much power that you had. When he spoke to Congress in 1969 in the face of PBS getting its funding cut in half, he made a congressman cry. He goes alone to the halls of power, made one of the most powerful men in America weep.

And he also went from facing a cut from 20 million down to 10 million to getting 22 million. Yep. He was so persuasive that he actually increased his budget by 10% instead of seeing it cut by 50%. That is a swing of result by 60%. Yeah. He predated the Gorbachev-Reagan meetings with Children's TV over in Russia.

Wow. children's TV over in Russia. Wow. He spoke to over 150 halls of learning for their commencements and he wouldn't ever use Mjolnir for offense. But he would definitely use it to summon clouds to teach the kids how to see shapes and clouds and use their imaginations.

Yeah, he might even have Daniel Tiger hold it to tell us a lesson about self-doubt There is not a man who acted with more nobility more compassion more restraint more humility and more wisdom than Fred Rogers I the only I feel like I, I need to, to pick at things. Sure. So like on an emotional level, you, you won. Like, you know, the only, the only thing that doesn't feel right about that is

there is a There is an element of The psychology behind the worthiness That has to do with Restrained aggression. Oh That the storm you hold back is your the storm the storm you hold back is in part your own, and everybody that we've seen wielding it has been a warrior personality type. Right. And the thing about Fred Rogers is, he is, even, he is, um, even, even talking about it, like I'm getting emotional, uh, just trying to, trying to find the words to describe it, but he is the embodiment of what Christ calls his followers to be. Yes.

And there is, there is a recognition in scripture of, you know, the need to turn away from anger or the need to turn away from aggression, aggressiveness, what have you. Unless motherfuckers are selling shit in the temple. Unless yes, which, Aggression aggressiveness, what have you unless motherfuckers are selling shit in the temple unless yes Which or you're redecorating that that you know that that curtain you're like now that master drapes fuck this Yes Which is an important lesson to us all that even even Jesus being fully human at the same time as being fully divine

Lost his shit like that was that was a big enough a front that even he lost his shit. Yep. But but red rod the example Fred Rogers sets. undercuts the, the character that he, um, models for us. That is I am 110% masculine. There is no questioning my masculinity, but no part of my affect, no part of my, affect no part of my of my internal life is Involved in well, you know, hey, I got to hold the monster back the fact no to me has conquered his personal jihad does not preclude him From true. Yeah. Yeah, I Did I just blend three religions right there? You kind of did. Yeah, I did you it's it's really remarkable How you just a bullet and and you and me being being the kind of nerds we are. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's true

But the fact that he was so successful Yeah, at it. Yeah, and also also I would point out the monster that he held back was always self-doubt Also, I would point out the monster that he held back was always self-doubt. It was never aggression. And I don't think that you're holding, that holding back a storm does not mean a violent thing. Doesn't have to. Now, most examples are that because we don't know how to express without that. But like he legit held back self-doubt and defeated it

by helping others All right. Yeah. All right. I I don't I'm ambivalent on this one Wow because on the one hand it's well It has less to do with Fred Rogers being awesome. Yeah, and it has everything to do with the symbolism of mjolnir Sure, if that makes sense, that's my it does I just you know, I mean he took on Terrorism he took on segregation and the violence that was inherent in both things. Yeah, he took them on Did it on his terms All right. So So I, you know, I'm, I'm, I, I totally see that.

And my, and again, my only quibble isn't, isn't that I don't think he's necessarily worthy. Yeah. I'm not going to argue about his worthiness. Yeah. Not going to argue about his worthiness. I am going to, I gonna I'm gonna quibble about whether I want to You don't want to lower him to the level of Mjolnir? Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I don't want to bring him down to three-color comic book. Yeah, like and I mean I don't never wielded the fucking thing either, you know, he was ultra worthy Yeah, yeah, he held it. Yeah, you know, he could lift it. But yeah. Yeah, he held it. Yeah. He could lift it, but yeah. All right.

Yeah. Now, obviously his outstandingness not withstanding doesn't mean we don't try to find others who act with nobility, compassion, restraint, and humility and wisdom. Enter Steve Irwin. Oh shit. Yeah.

You're gonna make me cry again, man. Fuck. Yeah. So Steve Irwin has been handling animals and had been handling animals since he was a six-year-old and he spent his life dedicated to teaching people about them and the need for their preservation and Remember, he's doing this with Australian animals So so on on reddit, you know, there's there's all these different groups humanity fuck Yeah, and one of my favorites humans or space orcs, right? That's like they're all built around the idea that holy fuck we live on a death world Like aliens are gonna are gonna see us be like you're all

Certifiable. Yeah, and and one of the one of the tropes that comes out of that is well Yes, earth is a death world and Australia is the death world on our death world right yeah We are we are space Australia and Australia is like Aliens look at Australia just blue screen because right Couldn't we have landed in sub area yeah? just blue screen because right. Couldn't we have landed in Siberia? Yeah. North America, like right anywhere in a land where everything can and will kill

you. He wrangled and fought for them. So humility. He's humble in that while we fell in love with his exuberance, it was never actually about him. It was always about the animals and his joy for the animals and his way of getting us on board With helping to save the environment was to show how much love he had for it like Steve like like Fred Rogers before him and what said Steve Rogers cuz In my head cannon, they're the same guy He never used his power and influence in an abusive or inherently selfish manner. He knew how to reach people and he used that to make our world better. He exhibited

physical courage. He loved all the life on this planet, including the stuff that was trying to kill him and did, and his willingness to radically share his joy and silliness. And yeah, he wouldn't use the hammer for much offense. He'd probably use it to nail down tent stakes or something, and he'd probably use it to lightly joke with someone by putting it on their towel at the pool. But he would also immediately pick it up and give them their towel.

Yeah. So he is also worthy. Yeah, 10 out of 10 no notes. 110%, yeah. And it's not that I think any less Yeah, ten out of ten no notes alright ten percent. Yeah and and and It's not that I Think any less of Steve Irwin than I do of Fred Rogers, but no just when is more mortal. I mean Sadly no, but I know what you mean like it feels like

Like I wouldn't immediately break into tears as a fanboy of Steve Irwin Yeah, I'd be honored to be at his table. Yeah, whereas if you had Rogers came to me I Would be if the man said hello. I yeah, we both yeah. Yeah, I disintegrate I am never washing this card again again, you know, it's like that. Yeah ever. Yeah, so All right. Okay. All right next one this card again again you know it's like that yeah ever yeah so all right okay all right next one um as of this being released this person is 27 years old okay is a woman okay any guesses Greta Thun No, but oh I like I didn't I actually I need to see her do more in life before I say that she's worthy Okay, Ted for you know, which which is interesting because she's along the same trajectory as Steve Irwin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know

Malala you use a little use of Zai. Yeah use of Zai. Thank you Okay in October of 2012 use of Zai was Yeah use of Zai. Thank you. Okay in October of 2012 Youssef Zai was heading back from school as a 15 year old after taking an exam when the Pakistani branch of the Taliban Which for context think Afghanistan's version of MAGA if they got to run things They targeted her for specific assassination like she is on their hit list. They target a 15 year old. Now this wasn't just an issue of them pulling over a bus and finding a girl on it who dared to learn shit.

They'd been targeting her since 2009, three years earlier. She'd been an activist since 2008. And by the way, she was born in 1997. So she's been an activist since 11 years old. Yep. She was inspired by Benazir Bhutto, who didn't make my list, but only barely. Just barely, I'm sure. And it's largely because, you know, like for every person I found I was like, oh, but this person's more worthy and I just want this to be a one episode thing. Yusuf Zai was inspired by Benazir Bhutto and she started speaking up about the importance of education for women in September of 2008. This was at the Peshawar Press Club. A year later,

the club was attacked by a suicide bomber. Yusuf Zai is fluent in Pashto Urdu and English and she started a blog with the BBC to report on the growing influence of the Taliban in the Swat Valley in January of 2009 as a seventh grader. Okay, now, Swat Valley is specifically Afghanistan Isn't it I thought that I thought it only was a campaign was it was region where there was a campaign in Afghanistan No, it was uh it was in Pakistan and there was a campaign. It was there. Okay, okay It's uh Yeah so

So she's a seventh grader. Now, this was when the Taliban was ascendant in that area and they banned most media. They banned women from public spaces and after January of 2009, they banned girls from going to schools. Now, this ban was lifted in an uneven way through the next couple months because this Pakistani government and the Taliban were jockeying for power. Malala continued blogging about it, criticizing not only the Taliban's zeal, but also Pakistan's army for its performative, but ultimately Johnny-come-lately defensive things. She said, quote, It seems that it is only when dozens of schools have been destroyed and hundreds of others,

hundreds others closed down that the army thinks about protecting them. Had they conducted their operations here properly, this situation would not have arisen." That's what a seventh grader said about the army that's trying to, that is not effectively defending them against an insurgent group that seeks to control all of life. Wow. Yeah. Now, once the second battle of SWAT had finished, she was able, Malala was able to go back to school more regularly. This experience made her realize

that aspiring to medicine was not enough. She'd wanted to become a doctor and she's like, that's not enough. She said that she would have to step into the public sphere professionally to make the changes that she wanted to see for others. So imagine thinking as a seventh grader or an eighth grader that being a doctor wouldn't help enough people. So you go into politics instead. Wow.

Now, then imagine having that thought while you are living in a semi failing state, right in that region. One that is being propped up and failing against an insurgent group that is doggedly determined. Like also again, I'm not going to help enough people as a doctor, so I'm going to be a politician. Over here, it would be, I'm not going to make enough money as a doctor, so I'm going to be a politician. Anyhow, Yusufzai continued being an activist student and she got herself

nominated by Desmond Tutu for the children's version of the Nobel Prize and she won the Pakistani version of it. She's been famous long before the Taliban saw her as a viable target for murder. So fast forward to them coming aboard the bus armed and masked like any brave man looking to murder a child would be. And they threatened to kill everyone unless she was identified.

As soon as she was, they shot her point blank range in the head. Now, we all know that she survived, but she was very touch and go at the time. Three days afterwards, a group of Pakistani clerics issued a fatwa against her attempted murderers. And shortly after this attempt on her life, two million Pakistanis were

emboldened enough to sign a petition codifying the rights of education for all in Pakistan, which the government then ratified. Wow. Now, even in a foreign country going through hours and hours of physical therapy, she had such a grand effect on her own homeland. Her head held back the storm of the Taliban's attempt at the forced ignorance in Pakistan. She was the thing that obviously turned the tide fully

for education in Pakistan. So she obviously had compassion. Obviously she had restraints. She didn't call for vengeance of any kind. She simply pointed out that it would take more than bullets and bullies to stop people from getting an education and she'd been shot in the fucking head. Yeah. In fact in an interview with John Stewart a year after she was shot,

so literally one year after she was shot, John Stewart interviews her and she said quote, I used to think that the Taliban would come and or that the Tlaib would come and he would just kill me but then I said if he comes what would you do Malala then I would reply to myself Malala just take a shoe and hit him but then I said if you hit a Tlaib with your shoe then there would be no difference between you and the Tlaib you must not treat others with cruelty and that much harshly you must fight others but through peace and through dialogue and through education Then I said I will tell him how important education is and that I even want education for your children as well And I will tell him that's what I want to tell you now do what you want

I'm wow do I need to go on about her nobility? I can. No. But she does it better. She gave a speech to the UN on her 16th birthday in response to having been shot, but more on that in a minute. Quote, the terrorists thought they would change my aims and stop my ambitions, but nothing changed my life except this weakness, fear and hopelessness died.

Strength power and courage was born. I am not against anyone. Neither am I here to speak up or neither Mary here to speak in terms of personal revenge against the Taliban or any other terrorist group. I'm here to speak up for the rights of education for every child. I want education for the sons and daughters of the Taliban and all the terrorists and extremists. That's her at 16.

OK, I just want to interject here. Sure, I wish I genuinely, genuinely wish that more of my fellow believers, of my co-religionists, had half the big Christ energy. Yeah. This Muslim girl. Or the big Fatima energy. Yeah, big Fatima energy. Yeah. Yeah. That, that, that. Yeah, they love Jesus.

Absolutely. Yeah, the big Christ energy. Like, yeah. Like, that, that is, that is what we all should be aspiring to. That is what we all should be aspiring to. That is. Yeah. Before she even attended college,

Yousafzai founded a school on the border of Syria and Lebanon, for Syrian girl refugees. It's the fact that her activism has continued before, throughout, and after her achievements. And remember, Yusufzai also fucking called out Barack Obama a year after she was shot in the head. She called him out to his face while meeting with his family about his drone strikes in Pakistan.

She said, quote, innocent victims are killed in these acts and they lead to resentment among Pakistani people. If we refocus efforts on education, it will make a big impact. She told the leader of the free world. Yeah. She told the most powerful man in the world. World, yeah. Yeah. Stop drone striking my people. You're making it worse.

Yeah. The wisdom and the humility of what she has done since then also deserves mention because I don't want you thinking that all it takes to wield Thor's hammer is standing up to bullies with guns. She has complete... Which, you know what? I... I know.

Like, I don't want you to think that that's all it takes. You know what? If that was all it took, that's... That's plenty. I'm good. Yeah. Okay. She completed her PPE degree at Oxford as of 2020. That's a philosophy, politics, and economics degree. It's an undergraduate cross-curricular degree specifically at Oxford that's pretty

notable. When she got the Nobel Peace Prize, she was giving her speech of acceptance and was interrupted by someone who wanted to shed light on the 2014 Iguala Mass Child Abduction in Mexico that had happened that year. Here was her response, quote, there are problems in Mexico, there are problems even in America, even here in Norway, and it is really important that children raise their voices. She did not say, you're ruining my moment, sit down. She sympathized and then she platformed what he was talking about so that people in America and Norway would also listen. And finally, when she and other young people went to the UN for her 16th birthday,

she sidestepped the UN calling it Malala Day, saying, Malala Day is not my day. Today is the day of every woman, every boy and every girl who have raised their voice for their rights. Humility. Yep. Finally, most recently in 2023, while the Taliban has been reasserting itself in Afghanistan, she continues to speak against them, noting that they're doing nothing new. Quote, the Taliban will continue to make excuses to prevent girls

from learning and beyond primary school. End quote. And in the end of it all, it's her outspoken approach to culture and The Taliban will continue to make excuses to prevent girls from learning and beyond primary school End quote and in the end of it all it's her outspoken approach to culture and people's rights that makes her more than worthy She says quote traditions are not sent from heaven They are not sent from God it is we who make cultures and we have the right to change it and we should change it Yeah Come to think of it right to change it and we should change it. Yeah. Come to think of it, nevermind her being worthy enough to carry Mjolnir. Thor needs to see if he's worthy enough to carry her fucking books. Yeah.

So. Yeah. Am I right? Yeah. No, they're all, they're all excellent examples. The last one, I actually have one and I think he's honorable mention. Okay. You can't beat Malala, but...

No. She's proven that. Yes. You can have a loaded gun and yes can't be Malala right? So the forward from the Los Angeles Lakers in the 1980s and 90s James Worthy Okay is by definition is by definition yeah, okay Yeah mic drop Yeah, mic drop

Yeah So there you go and and we're done with with yeah the whole this whole episode this whole episode It's another one of your goddamn shaggy dog stories All the lead made me you made me cry Fred Rogers, and then you do this to me and each one was like topping it Turns out it's all just to point out that number 42 on the Lakers. Yeah, you should be holding me on there cuz he's James Worthy Patron saint of childhood patron saint of nature and and and then like patron saint of nature and and and then like I'm just gonna say yeah in the running for you know patron saint of human rights and and

Yeah, and then and then you you drop a cheap fucking fun You know The thing is, it's, it's not just, it's not just the blatant manipulation of it all. It's, it's the fact that like we go through all that and, and the pun you choose to drop is that so lazy. You're I'll that damn like really? Ah, so, so. That, that goddamn lady singer. Like really? Ah. So, yeah, did he, did he, you know, work for Habitat for Humanity or anything? No, I think he's got a couple charities that he's worked pretty hard on after his career is over.

But, no, it's James Worthy. Yeah. So there you go. After after his career is over, but James Worthy. Yeah There you go, so that's that's it. That's my list all right Yeah, um I think they're all I think they're all compelling compelling examples I Like it. Yeah Cool well, uh so what I would ask what you've gleaned But I think just hearing that I'm a son of a bitch is is yeah pretty much. Yeah, I think you just managed to Take my make you angry through

Emotional arc and then and then drop that on me um I think You know beyond the obvious. I think that what think that what I would take away from this is number one that Fred Rogers was too good for this world, just full stop. And yeah, that's the other. I would want to bring up I Do not disagree with you well, I mean you kind of can't yeah Yeah, it's record banks it really hard to so yeah All right, so what are you recommending to people? In a hard turn, I don't know what direction, but definitely a hard turn from what we've been talking about.

I'm going to very strongly recommend the new, just this past year, Shogun miniseries. Oh, yeah. Which I'm still working my way through. OK. Just because it's not something that my wife has any interest in and my son is way too young to watch it So I have limited opportunities But it is a

Remarkably well acted Well acted drama and It manages I'm gonna do an episode or two on it coming up because the differences between the original mini-series back in 1978. Something like that, yeah. It was the next big miniiseries after roots if I recall I'm trying to remember whether it was I think it was thorn birds Okay, it's like roots and then the thorn birds and then and then Shogun. Yeah

Anyway, but but this one this one is it is Recognizably the same story with the same characters But the narrative beats are played differently, and there is a lot more agency and importance given to the Japanese characters in the story. All right. And they are they are developed farther beyond what in the 1978 story or miniseries were kind of cardboard cutouts. And so yeah, it's I very well acted. The dialogue is amazing. And it's very, very compelling. Great stuff. So highly recommend that how about you? I'm gonna recommend a book That is called the crumbling of a nation and other stories by Ryan David Ginsburg And it's a collection of short stories

Believe it or not fiction. Oh And I know I know but it's this dystopian nightmare fiction So okay, there you go So think like you know they live you know okay, you know which was a short story originally But um mirror yeah, yeah, it's it's it's very that um It's interesting because even the cover of the book is actually generated by AI and the author is kind of pissed about it So he's like on the next pressing it will actually be somebody that I paid

but It's it's just which is fascinating to me But it is a collection of short stories that is more than just kind of your dystopia or it is what dystopian shit does, right? It's supposed to examine the human condition as we're living it. Yes. Through the lens of look how bad it could have gotten. Yeah. You know, it's, so it's. When you're writing about the past or an imaginary past in fantasy, you're really writing about right now. Yeah. When you're writing about the future in science fiction. You're really writing about right now. Yeah, so It's um

Yeah, I I recommend it pick a short story depress yourself And then do drugs. I don't know okay. Yeah, just remember James Worthy, so cool You are a shadow in the warp as I mean yes, but where can they find us? We collectively can be found at our website at wubba wubba wubba geek history time calm We also Can be found on the Apple podcast app on Spotify and on the Amazon podcast app Wherever it is that you have found us please take the time to subscribe and give us the

Five-star review that you know we deserve despite Damien's lazy punchline fucking puns Or I don't know maybe you're into that kind of Self-flagellation so maybe because of them. I don't know Yes, I'm bitter But where can you be found, sir? Let's see, you know what you can do

is you can go to the Comedy Spot in Sacramento on the first Friday of every month. So September 6th, October 4th, November 1st, and December 6th, for instance. Go there with 12 bucks in your pocket, buy a ticket, bring friends, each of them brings $12, buy tickets, sit down, watch Capital Punishment. My partner Justine Lopez and Mark Berg and myself

always have incredible guests on. We spin a wheel, we pun battle, it is just a raucous, wonderful good time. If you go to the ComedySpot's time. If you go to the Comedy Spot's YouTube channel and you go to the playlist, you can even find our old shows so you know exactly what you're getting into. But you should absolutely come down

to the Comedy Spot in Sacramento and buy a ticket. Pun, battle, win. Spin that wheel. And I should note, as somebody who has seen the show, those puns are actually clever and involve some effort. I really am. So yeah, first Friday of every month, 9 p.m. so come on down. Well cool, this was fun up until that last five seconds for you. So, for a Geek History of Time, I'm Damian Harmony. And I'm a very angry Ed Blaylock. And until next time, keep rolling 20s.

So angry, and I told you all about Fred Rogers.