A Geek History of Time - Episode 33- Screwball Comedy and World War II (Part 2)

Episode Date: October 27, 2019

Damian reveals the results of far too much time spent reading old microfiche of “Variety” magazines, and he and Ed get into a discussion of the Apollonian vs. Dionysian methods for the buttering of corn on the cob. All of this gets tied into screwball comedy, we swear.

Like they they advertise one match when crashing a car into one of the wrestlers. Not a total victory of Russia, which now we're seeing. He jumped off. He's like a gigantic bag of flaccid dicks. Sorry, contention. Which when you open them up, you find out that they're all cockroaches and stuff. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if anybody else is ever going to laugh this hard at anything we say.

Probably. We can actually both look out my window right now and see some very pretty yellow flowers that I'm going to be eradicated. This is a geek history of time. Where we connect her to the real world. I'm Ed Blalock. I'm a world history teacher at the seventh grade level here in Northern California and the father of a 21 month old son who just

recently at a Scottish games selected the sword that he's going to be using as his toy weapon for some time now. We gave him an option. We held two of them out in front of him. One of them was a replica of sting in wood. Actually, really a very pretty one. And the other one was a much more simple, actually looks like a waster training kind of weapon. And that's the one he chose, which made his fencer daddy very, very happy. How about you?

Well, I just have a question about the swords that you held up from. Was it staying from Dune or is it staying from W.C. I will kill him. No, and hell, oh good, yeah. I cut you off there before you finished. No, neither of those. Oh, good, yeah, I cut you off there before you finished. No, neither of those. Oh, okay.

No. It was, it was, or, sting from, from the Lord of the Rings. Oh, okay. Glow's blue in orcs or near. Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, since this was a Scottish fair, Sasanakh, Englishman.

Oh, okay. So, but he decided against that one. And again, went with the Waster. Nice. Well, I'm Damien Harmony. I am a Latin teacher, part-time history teacher up here in Northern California. I am the father of a seven and a nine-year-old, both of whom have gotten into Mousgard quite a bit.

Oh, yeah. How is that going? It's going well. I love it because the advancement, what we call the mechanic mechanic requires that you fail at the skill. A number of times really. Minus one that you have ranks in that skill, which means you have to go out on a limb and fail at doing the thing. You can't just be good at it. Wow. Which is that's deep. Yes. Your daughter must be having a tough time with that. She's the world's shit is pathfinder.

But she's filled up the failure marks on it. Now she's going to succeed four times. Okay. And so that'll be some time by 2026. Okay. So., and it's a success fail dice, you know, 4, 5, 6 or successes. Okay. 6 could be exploding if you want to spend points on it. Okay. So, it's kind of, it's a cool dynamic. All right. So, I don't think I'm doing the best job at it, but I'm keeping it gussied up because

I've never played it as a player, so I do much better when I've played as a player. Yeah. Yeah. But it's fun. It's a lot of fun. No, it sounds like. And I'm hoping to get them into a Marvel role playing game and then a Star Wars role playing game by December. I can totally support getting them into a Star Wars role playing

game. Yes. I don't know if anybody has managed to generate a Marvel-based role playing game that is not a steaming pile of trash. True, but we are talking seven and nine-year-old, so. True. Yeah. True.

I also thought about dusting off the old Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles role playing game, because they love them to TMNT. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, see, I got a soft spot in my heart for anything by palladium. See, I got a soft spot in my heart for anything by palladium. I have learned enough in doing some research on the industry. I've learned enough that it's not a great company to work for, apparently, and we get into that in another episode.

But it was a formative part of my adolescence and so yeah, I can get behind that too. Yeah, cool. So very cool. What are you reading right now? I am reading a book by, it's an autobiography, it's called Preston Sturgis, by Preston Sturgis. Oh, okay. He was a very, very famous director in the 1930s and 40s of

comedies. I recognize the name, but I can't contextualize it. So I'm gonna give you some of his most famous stuff, the great Guinty. The miracle of Morgan's Okay. Let's see what else. Unfathfully yours. Oh, okay. He wrote on those. Yeah. I'm trying to think of other ones that he directed. Hail the Conquering Hero. Okay.

No, he wrote that one too. I'm looking for his... Directorial credit? Yeah, he really did a lot of writing though. Tons of writing. Okay. Remember the night, never say die college swing easy living okay wire okay yeah next time we love yeah lots and lots all right so how many of

these would be considered screwball comedies you know honestly not that many really yeah yeah he he did other kinds of comedies, which is I think why he survived through the 40s. His career is fascinating and it touches on most things and it really gives you a good context for what's going on in the studio system in the 1940s. Oh, it's still great. It's only about a generation to remove from its own creation. Yeah. But yeah, what are you reading? Well, right now I'm reading an awful lot of student work.

Oh. Because it's end of a grading period. And so I don't really have a lot of time to read for myself. Sure. But I will recommend the Plantagenet by Dan Jones. It's a very readable, very well put together history of the Plantagenet dynasty. It starts, of course, with Henry the second. Okay. And goes all the way up through to the end of the Wars of the Roses covers the whole... From the beginning of the Dynasty to the point at which the tutor dynasty begins,

which is a branch of the Plantage nuts, but it winds up becoming, they wind up becoming their own thing. Yeah. And it's, like I said, it's a very, very well written, very easy to read without losing any rigor. Okay. Historically speaking, Shishar, but just generally a really great book in a good train read. Cool. Well, last time we were talking about screwball comedies, and I got us up to the roasting of Hell's a Poppin' and the fact that soldiers were reporting to entertainment reporters for

a trade publication that youoll need to simmer down. They really appreciated it. They'd really appreciated if you didn't blow it out on New Year's Eve this year. Yeah, pretty much. So. Which still just seems weird. I mean, yeah, anyway.

Yeah, I'm having, I don't know. And it could be, you know, it could be generational, it could be circumstantial. I don't know. But could be that they talked to the communications officer whose job was to liais with the press. Yeah, okay, that makes sense. So, there's a few things. So, the fact that screwball comedies are declining drastically during the war kind of points to the probability that everyone else is catching on to the same sentiment about comedies dealing with sexual frustration. Okay.

So sexual frustration is no longer as attractive. So between Hell's Apopin and Lady in a Jam was about a year. Okay. It took from December to September in New York to review two screw ball comedies at all. Wow, really? Yeah, whereas the previous one. Just one didn't get put out.

No, they just didn't get reviewed Interesting, so there's a much like sample sample a year before. Oh, well, all right. Yeah Now yes, there were fewer there were fewer but not Not only two yeah, okay, so but the critic just didn't even bother Yeah, reviewing the rest of them because who cares? Yeah, there's a glut in the market of war movies western stuff like that. Okay. By 42 the movie industry had moved sharply toward war movies like I said. Yeah. On October 7th 1942 a variety reported in

its headlines that approximately 33% of all films in the past six months were made with a war angle. Okay. That's a lot. That's the lion's share. That's a third. Yeah, that's certainly a plurality. That's the largest percentage, largest chunk. Yeah.

Wow. All right. One in three. Yeah. Now, and then all of the other genres are fighting for the other two Foughts right every three films right okay, cuz you know you say 33% Doesn't sound like mine doesn't sound like a really big percentage, but then you realize that no no no Then you've got horror movies you've got romances you've got any kind of

Parlor drama mysteries You've got any kind of parlor drama mysteries Westerners forces any kind of comedy all of those are fighting over the other two the other two out of three. Yeah Wow, okay. Yeah, that's it's dominant Which makes sense? Do you know what the what the second biggest percentage was? No like what the second biggest percentage was? No, like what the genre and number two, but I would hazard a guess that West Trends

would be the next highest for all of these. That was gonna be my big macho. Well, because macho, because themes of self-reliance and self-sacrifice, the heroic figure coming in save the day, standing up against forces of corruption and evil. Yeah, that whole, you know, frontier mentality kind of thing. Yeah, all right. Yeah, that makes sense. So through the end of November, these kinds of headlines are prevalent in a variety, the trade pub. Which is again, I got a point out it's a trade publication so it's largely for and about the Hollywood community. Yeah

Others include here's here's inside baseball. Yeah, yeah, and and it's 70 or 80 pages per issue. Oh my god, the scrolling that I did so But so for instance, here's some other headlines. DC would like Army Film Pronto, and Warthemed Picks increase. It's just, it's, it's, yes. Ascendant. War movies are gaining popularity. Movies like Wake Island across the Pacific are heavily advertised at this point.

They get in the big full, full page ads or you know, quarter page ad. Yeah. When the Boogeyman will get you, debuts in October of 42. And only the New York Times understood what, when the Boogeyman will get you is trying to do. Okay. It saw it as an attempt to meld scruball comedy

into yet another setting, horror. Yeah, I was gonna say that sounds okay. It didn't flatter the idea though. They saw what they were trying to do. Okay, and yeah, no, it doesn't work. A variety of reviewer commented positively on the film describing it as screwball comedy and offering hearty laughs.

But that was it, like remember the previous paragraphs of stuff from the last episode. They also, there's another movie called The Palm Beach Story. It opened their really bad reviews in New York Times. Is reflecting about a year's worth of wartime anxiety at this point and priorities, and they barely even reviewed the movie. Okay. This guy named Bosley Crowther is kind of the reviewer. Okay.

He criticized the... Roger Ebert of the uh... the reviewer uh... he criticized the ebert of the day yeah and he's doing it for new york not for the car yeah and he criticized the movie's director whose name is pressed in sturgis uh... for so yes he did touch

uh... yeah yeah um... but it wasn't, see, I never, it wasn't the most successful of the genre. So, you know, for the, he got on him for trying to both be writer and director, which at that time was taboo. Really? Yes. Because it was seen as being kind of self-important and nighatistical. Yeah. You wrote this thing. So thing, so you're not going to hand it off to somebody else. Right. You've got to be the one who directed because. We're so shitty that you're the only one who can.

You're the only one willing to sit down and be OK. Yeah. All right. So, he says, as it is, Mr. Surge is his right hand. I'm using air quotes there. Let has let his somewhat more deft one down. Wow. Yeah, now that's clever writing.

Number one, upon, man. And at this time, at least 50% of the country only had an eighth grade education. Oh, wow. And this is what's being written in the papers. Oh, that's true. That's a good point. All right. His fiction at the time is much too

barren of bright surprises for a bold directorial splurge. And as a consequence, the Palm Beach story never really becomes the rompant aims to be. Except for some health or skill to moments, it is generally slow and garless, or garless. Perhaps Mr. Sturgis was trying to see how thin he could slice it and still get high. Wow.

Perhaps he was making an experiment in conversational comedy. Anyhow, he's short on action and very long on trivial talk in this mildly satiric little fable. Sounds like somebody reviewing reservoir dogs, quite honestly. Hey, sounds like Bill Murray to Chibi Chase. Yeah. Medium talent. Medium talent. Like boy, you want to cut somebody.

Even at Christmas. It should have been a breathless comedy. It should have been a breathless comedy, but only the actors are breathless and that's from talking too much. Oh. yeah. Oh, okay. So, so heaping scorn. Yeah, just like no, no, no, I'm not done smacking you.

Yeah. Good, God almighty. Yeah. Okay, so at this point, the genre has jumped the shark. It's nobody... It didn't get over the shark. The shark jumped up and did a shit out. Yeah, we don't want to see you. We don't serve your kind here and work it at the theater. Pretty much.

Wow. So what was receiving it? It's a son. A son. A son. Wow. So, what was receiving at home? Damn, son. Okay, you said it was. What was getting excellent reviews at that time was actions, specifically wartime action. Okay. Advertisements for those movies were way larger than, and far more frequent than, the Palm

Beach story, ever was. I guess that took up the whole page. Judging by the ads alone, war movies were poised to attract more customers than a movie like Palm Beach Story, which was about a woman who leaves her husband and searches for a rich man to marry on the name of helping her husband. It could be a farcical whimsical comedy.

Yeah. Not then. Yeah. War movies are about honor and sacrifice in heroics, as you know, so carefully pointed out. Yeah. And newsreel footage and these got the lion's share of the advertisements. They advertise newsreel footage.

Really? Yep. Okay. After the war began, New York Times did not positively review a single screwball comedy except for one which debuted on New Year's Eve in 1942-43. It's called Whistling Dixie. Oh great. except for one which debuted on New Year's Eve in 1942-43. It's called Whistling Dixie. Oh great.

Red skeleton was in it. Okay. And he got most of the praise. Yeah. There was red skeleton. Yeah, come on. The reviewer found the movie amusing, but not hilarious. The Times gave it a baffling review.

Perhaps in an attempt to match the baffling nature of the film. Okay. I once wrote a review of something in the same exact meter and style as Charger the Light Brigade. Okay. It was fun. Yeah. I don't know that it was considered a very good review.

Review? Yeah. Or perhaps because they had a deadline or a baby because the premature celebration of the new year. I don't know. Yeah. But it said, there were more blows yesterday in Whistling and Dixie than Sullivan and Kilrain ever exchanged

in 70 odd rounds. Just referring back to old-timey boxing. Yeah, old-timey boxing. And so. You know, Sullivan, that's some really old-ass boxing. That box really old ass but but but so we're supposed to take from that that there's Repartee back and forth yes, okay As you can see that's like you know, yeah, Darmaugh and jolata tonagra kind of in some ways Yeah, I'm language like you know shocker when the walls fell. Yeah. You really have to know a lot of context.

Yes. Understand what they're trying to say. Well, Timba has arms wide, you know? Yeah, well, indeed. Like one does. Yes, indeed. But interestingly, even in the praise, it's actiony. This is true.

It's the metaphor is a combative one. Right. The dialogue less so. Yeah. So it's not Peter Patter, it's blows. Whistling in Dixie is a less of a screwball than it is a comedic mystery to be honest, but it still has elements of a man out of his depth

and a woman continuing to frustrate him in a romantic setting, but that's no longer front and center in the movie. That's an aspect of it, which I think is what made it acceptable. That's a dash of flavoring in the mix. Uh-huh. Okay.

By the time 1943's Crazy House comes out, which isn't really even a scribble comedy, to be honest, um, the Battle of Guadalcanal had just ended. Yeah. It has been a full two years since Pearl Harbor. Yep. American and British soldiers had successfully invaded Italy. Yes. It was becoming increasingly obvious the allies are going to win the war. It's not a matter of when. It's just a matter of when. Not whether or not. Even U-boat activity had considered slowly, considerably slowed, allowing most American ships to get to England unalested. But,

American interest was still not returned to any kind of male romantic frustrations of form of comedy. Crazy House, not a screw ball, still earned especially bad reviews because it did have a frustrated romantic lead. Okay. The movie was made by the same people who had brought hells of pop into the big screen. So it could be the reviewer was still unforgiving past it. It was still a bad bias to holding past sins against it. Yeah. It would be like if people still didn't like Mel Gibson for being an anti-Semite instead of forgiving him for not apologizing for it.

True. True. Or it would be like critics continuing to hold everything against Michael Bay, like forever. Yeah. Because they do. Yeah. You know, and I mean, I'm not saying the man's work is, you know, deep. No. But, you know, but it's good for what it is. It's good for what it is. And he does deserve to be crapped on the way he regularly does get by, by, you know, overeducated on the way he regularly does get by, you know, overeducated movie critics. That's a good one. So, yeah, no, this is a phenomenon we've seen.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. So. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But it's also clear by the reviews that Scruball comedies got that the flame was flickering and dying down.

Yeah. Okay. The reviews keep getting harsher. Bosley Crowther really seems to have a hard on against them. He stated that the Reels got mixed up at the showing of Crazy House that he saw. And it didn't make a difference to the plot or the flow of the movie. Ow. Yeah. Ow. Now, truly, the appeal of the frustrated masculine effort was dying. Oh, it well, yeah. I mean, after, after that long, uh-huh, everybody having their father, their brother, their uncle, their boyfriend, their whoever stuck on the other side of the planet in dire straits, you know, you know, in circumstances where you know, the old saying is that infantry combat is, you know, days and days of absolute

boredom punctuated by moments of stark terror. Yeah. And, you know, thinking about, you know, having that in your mind, or some, you know, whoever being in those circumstances, I can see how that would make it difficult to find humor in the admittedly frivolous, but still real frustration of a male sympathetic male figure. Because a big point of the whole genre is that you're sympathizing with the Apollonian cut the butter square. Do we sometimes do we be but always very you know Clean cut you know hard corners. You know male lead. Yeah, he's he's the the the figure you're identifying with when you're watching the film and And seeing the person you're identifying with the person you're supposed to care about having to put up with all that stuff right I

Can see how Everybody's psyche would have a hard time with that. Mm-hmm. So. Absolutely. Yeah. I have a question for you. Yeah.

How do you butter your corn? You put the pad of butter on the plate, and you use the, the, the, the, her corn or how did she prior to meeting you? Did she do it differently? No actually Why my Grandmother okay, they would slice it with the knife Yeah, use that to spread it on the corn. Yeah, my grandfather

Yeah, took the cob and just slid it right through the bar. Oh, God. Okay. And that became the dominant way our family did it. Okay. And so in both of my marriages, they were treated to that. That's why you're twice divorced. Yeah, that's why you're twice divorced. Yeah, that's whatever else was going on.

That right there. Because that's making my eye twitch just even thinking about right now. Oh my god, because then you have a little of the corn hair that's in the butter. Yeah, that's the thing. And the butter is now you shape. And now you have a corn butter. Yeah. You keep in the fridge for the corn.

Yeah. And you can't use anything else. For no good reason. For no good reason at all. Yeah. And it's also got like kernel imprints in it as you went out. Tracks. Yeah. Okay.

So when I said what I said about cut the butter square. Yeah. I gotta go back and I'm gonna rat on my father. Okay. Because my father could be mm-hmm. The, the, the, it could stand in for the protagonist of any one of these screwball comedies.

Okay. My father is an engineer, personality type, who became an aviator, which reinforced all of that. Yeah. Because they're old pilots, they're bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots. Right. You have a checklist.

You go through everything on the checklist because that's how you get home in one piece. Right. That's, you know, and so, what of the points in my life that I will remember forever where I've had to watch my father bite his tongue, was visiting my grandparents. And of course I grew up in the same house with my dad all the time.

And just, you know, it was, you have the butter, you cut the butter, you do what you're doing on your plate. Well, and it is a thing for my father to have to cut it square. Okay. My grandfather was not that way. And I will never forget the expression on my father's face. I understood why it was kind of halfway a joke and halfway not

when my dad talked about cut the butter square. When I watched my grandfather reach with the same knife he had already used to butter one piece of toast which had crumbs on it and you know all that Reach out to the butter on the table Cut halfway through the stick of butter and then pull outward I swear to god my father had a full-bodied body. So, so that was that was that was my role model. Yeah. So what you're describing about it is take the corn and all that like oh my god. Yeah. My father's not a religious man but he would be driven to call you a heretic. So anyway, you bring this up for a reason related to our genre. I'm sure I bring up the butter because you said cut the butter.

Okay, all right. That's and it just occurred to me that my grandpa was, you know, my grandma was from a middle class background. My grandpa was from a very poor background. So and my grandpa was Apollonian in that. Okay. But he grew, well, he grew to be Apollonian, but he was very dynicy in when he met a grandma,

which was probably the attraction. Yeah. But like, she was already engaged. Oh, yeah. And he looked up every Smith in the phone book until he found her. Holy cow. Yeah, because he met her on the beach.

Nice. Yeah. So, so your grandparents were kind of an inversion of this. For starters, yes. Now by the time I met them, it was very much, they were the prototypical family of the 50s, three kids. And he would come home and things had to be a certain way. So he'd grown into being Apollo, but yes. And in those instances, yeah, and you know he would come home and things had to be a certain way So you know, he'd grown into being a Apollo, but yes like in those instances. Yeah

Yeah, so and he always had a sense of humor about things He always did he had a stroke and so there's only one phrase I ever remember him saying But pre-stroke and it was when he came and picked me up and I was like four or five He's ah gotta eat my witties. And then after that, everything I remember of him saying was with stroke voice, where it felt like his tongue was on the roof of his mouth. Okay. I used to imitate it very well, but it doesn't feel right to do that anymore because I get

older and less of a dick. But it added to the humor of the shit that he said because he it took him a minute to say things Mm-hmm, and so my my grandma Nana at one point She's doing this and doing that and he had moved something over to the side Which made more sense and she's looking for it and he finally points. So he's just right there and She says You've got me all confused Chuck and he just looks at me and goes, doesn't take much. And that's, it's that kind of shit.

And he took me on, because he had a stroke, he wasn't able to work, but then he found employment being kind of a delivery month. And he made that work for a while, right? And so I would go with him on his roots on occasion. It was really fun. I hate dropping things and I've always hated dropping things. And we were in an elevator and I had a thing

and I was 10, maybe 11 and I was holding something and it wasn't quite level. And a thing kept slipping. It was like a package of highlighters. So you kept slipping off and I'd reached down and pick it back up and it slipped again. And as I'm putting it back on, it would slide off and he just laughing his ass off at me the whole time. And so he still enjoyed Dionysus. But this guy, so government starts encouraging in a major way,

Hollywood to make more war movies, to the exclusion of comedic romantic comedies. Really? Yeah, and now it's not specifically, like don't make those, just make those, it was make all these. And whatever, whatever, whatever, it's not making much money.

Yeah, whatever the market doesn't compel you to make is just gonna fall off. Exactly. Now at this point full-length newsreel features are flooding theaters in 44. There's a lot of news about the war. Advertisements for them had, in the summer of 44 D. Day was one of the more popular topics for all these reasons Yeah, and so any war movie was attractive to your typical movie goer or your typical movie maker There were no scruple comedies in 1944 at all none not a one not a one wow. Yeah, that's how Quickly it flared out by 45 World War II is obviously wrapping up. The main concern is not Europe, but Japan. Yeah. War experts projected that in invasion of the home island

as you had spoken of before. A million. Yeah, and that the Japanese would fight every last man, woman, and child. Yeah, right? So you're going to be... It's a really population to be rising up. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. It was sharp sticks. Even with Soviet help Because Stalin did agree to give assistance once the war in Europe was over Invasion would be a bloody bloody affair, and so people are girding up for that. Yeah The final screwball movie of the war comes out in May after V.E. Day. It's called pillow to Post and it was reviewed as a horrible movie. Yeah. By Crowther again. Now, part of this I'm going to the same source over and over again because New York Times is a very reliable source on reviewing. The great lady. Yeah. The San Francisco Chronicle, I went to a lot and they didn't have as many.

Or it could be that they don't put all their stuff on the internet as quickly. And I didn't want to go down to look at microfiche for 80 hours. Forever. But you know, this way I'm comparing Apple Stapples, we can start to change over time because Crowder did like other screwballs. But by this point, he don't. And it could be that they're terrible. It could be that he's done with it.

He's done with it. Yeah, he had nothing flattering to say about it. He thought it was a waste of the actor's time. And that the Warner Bros. should have put more effort into not insulting the actors by having them in such a bad film. Wow. Yeah, he says, even though this film is taken from a modest stage play of a few seasons back, its humors are as stale and mechanical as those of the oldest such farce. And the outcome is

quite as predictable as the consequence of boy meeting girl. It's just too bad that Ida Lupino, whose talents are far above such trash, had to be stuck with the necessity of trying to make something out of it. What he actually uses the word trash. Yeah. I mean that's to us in 2019, that's saying shit. We throw that around like it's not a big deal. Right. Back then, that was kind of, that was close to the strongest language you could get away with in print. Yeah. Holy cow. He continues. And it is curious that Sydney Green Street should be one of the tongue waggers involved. You think that the Warner Brothers would have more regard for these two stars and for

the considerable patience of the innocent customers. I mean, I know Sydney Green Street is a big name, but my God. Yeah. That's harsh. Yeah. That's, that's harsh. Yeah. Now, and I do find it interesting, that in that utter panning of the film, he maintained sympathy for the actors involved.

Yes. And all of his scorn is being directed at the script. Yeah, and the studio for the movie. And then the studio for even bothering to commit it to film. Yes. So, so it is, I mean, that's, that's a sign that it really is, no as a matter of fact, the genre is dying. Yeah, is just, is done. That's the subject of his criticism. Yeah, it's not. He's not painting broad brushes. He's, I know, he's very specific. Exciting and then slaughtering.

Wow. Yeah. Now, at the other end of this news break, I'll tell you more about what World War II did. Okay. For right now, we need to pay for things. So, you all stay tuned for this next ad. It's a good one. It's good one. Yeah, and

It's not a wartime newsreel or anything, but we did a pretty good job on it We did we really did and also it should stand a reason that you would want to sell things through us. So please contact us And we will make sure they give our contact information at the end of this episode. Yeah geeks are standing by Hey geek nation. This is ad and Damien. Hey, what you got there? I got a copy of the stolen by my good friend Bishop O'Connell He is a Norwegian wedding cake creator. No, he is not. Oh, he is a Urban fantasy writer remember the science fiction writers of America. Oh wow So that's that looks like it says one of three

Yes, well, it's the first volume of an American fairy tale. Other two volumes are the forgotten and the returned. Nice. What's, it's fairy tales. I mean, there's a lot of Celtic and Irish folklore in there. A very great deal. Yes. The first novel actually involves the characters traveling

to Tyrannanog. No kidding. Yeah. Wow, I remember that from Titanic. Yeah, you hear that. I don't know. Good day, sir! With that back to the show.

And we're back. Yeah. Woo. That was us being sales persony. Yeah. You know, it's something I hate, but I'm good. Yeah. You know, well, yeah, I don't know how good I am at it, but I, you know, what's important is that you need to actually believe in what it is that you're selling.

And you know, in this case, of course, we do. Easy to do. So it makes it easier to do. But we're not above selling what we don't believe in. So not too far above. No. No. Not so far above it that we won't lower ourselves to make a living.

Exactly. There we go. So looking at you, Koch Brothers. There you go. So it may well be that screwball movies deserve their reviews fully. Could be. But anything even touching on Scrooball, met with rejection. Now good movies do tend to get good reviews. Bad movies tend to get bad reviews, not always.

Well, sometimes there's a particular critic can have an animus against a particular director or a particular set of stars or an aesthetic or an aesthetic or what but you know if you look at an aggregate kind of thing which is you know the whole reason that you know nowadays we have websites like Rotten Tomatoes which are designed to or metacic, which are designed to let you know, to help take those kind of edge cases out of your calculation when you're trying to decide is this a good movie, is this a bad movie? Yeah, yeah. So, you know, and what a time to be alive.

I mean, it used to be that you would pick a critic that you agreed with and just listen to him or her, or you'd pick a critic that critic that you agreed with and just listen to him or her. Yeah. Or you'd pick a critic that you didn't agree with and just listen to him or her. And listen to him and be like, okay. So Gene Siskel hated this. I'm going to like it. Right. Right. And I was usually like, if he, for me, you know, if, if Ebert liked it, I was probably going to like it. If Sis Cisco thought it was empty-headed, plebeian trash, I was probably really gonna groove on it. Because to me, Gene Ciscal was an elitist jerk. Like, I know their dynamic, the two of them,

his criticism of Roger Ebert was that Roger Ebert was the Pillsbury Doe critic. You pushed his button and he giggled. Was what Cisco had to say about Ebert. And, you know, I just thought Cisco was kind of humorless and like, you know, it has to be high art or it... Well, if you look at who they both drank with. Yeah. Cisco drank with artists. Yeah. Avantgarde theater people. Okay. Ebert went to the CD's,

Chitty bars in Chicago and would stumble out of them blind drunk at 5 a.m. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I know who. Yeah. Okay. So I know my crowd. All right. There we go. So. Now, most of the reviews of Skruball Committees from 42 onward tended to focus on the boring ass nature of the films or their locustity or their lack of clarity. Too much talking, plot done make any sense. Tried too hard didn't succeed. Tried too hard.

Yeah, it's all frivolous nonsense. It's empty-headed. Yeah, okay. So this would tell me then that the feelings, or that they were expressing, was showing that the quality of these films was dropping. It would also seem that the ears it fell on less than a decade earlier were now tired of the sound. The actors had also been moving into other genres, though, too.

Jimmy Stewart, friend of McMurray, Henry Fonda, Gary Cooper, all had made a splash in screwball. We're now deeply involved in war and other genres. Okay? It's kind of like Tom Hanks used to do Zany Comedy. He doesn't know how he just does movies re-peas and things Name yeah, now I am name one where he's not Yeah, I can't yeah Polar Express

Got it. Yeah, there we go. But is that really him? It might be the That's an avatar Might not count, but yeah Yeah, and if it does count that might be the only one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I guess you could say Toy Story, but I mean, his name is Woody.

Huh. So, all right. That was a segue. Yeah. So, and at the time, they're all getting these warm movies, movies are largely a studio-driven thing, not an actor- driven commodity, right? Okay, yeah. So this was a larger decision than just actors

choosing what project they were gonna do. They weren't taking their talents as where they wanted to talent, well, no, no, no. Because the studio was saying, okay, look, we're gonna put you in this film. Right. We've decided your look, your persona,

your whatever makes you the every man. Exactly. The every man hero in the case of Jimmy Stewart Right now in the case of you know Clark Gabel your the Romantic lead Carried Grant your the Romantic lead Van Johnson you're the you know action hero right? Yeah, yeah, so so you know it's it's It used to would you funny look in burr Reynolds need to lose weight sorry that's later that's a while after this but yeah so also people weren't focused on laughing at male frustration like I said yeah you got cowboys and soldiers who are heroes and that's what matters

right yeah there were comedies but Romantic comedies where the women frustrated the men were gone. Yeah. comedies where the class structure in the United States culture was being up ended in chaotic mess, we're not well received. Huh. It's war, man. We don't have time. Yeah, we don't have time for being all divisive with your divination. So one reason that men were, that nobody wanted to laugh at men being

frustrated is because they're at war. Like you said earlier, they resented people having such a lighthearted mood in their absence. And the rest of the country seemed to have fallen in line with that way of thinking, as shown by the article that I mentioned before. Yeah, yeah. Women were at home working in the factories and other places to keep the home front going and keep it going strong.

They also didn't delight in seeing men frustrated romantically or otherwise. Nobody did and that adds to the overall anxiety of the nation because you don't have that release valve about the frustration. Good point. Seeing heroes in tough men was certainly more encouraging to the women and the home front in general. This is why we're doing this. But if you only ever have meetings where you're reaffirming your

mission statement, you're stressing your employees out. Yes. So when men get back to the home front, it was also because they'd been wounded or hurt somehow. Not able to continue, not because they'd finished their scheduled tour because they didn't have a schedule tour is for the duration. Yeah. They also weren't interested in seeing frustration. No, because they were having to deal with a whole different level of frustration themselves.

And trauma. And well, trauma, and then, you know, we're talking about the silent generation. Yep. And all of them having been survivors of the depression. And the last episode you talked about, you know, the bootstrap mentality. And for a lot of them, at least on a subconscious level, the idea that they had failed, right. Would be something they'd be struggling with. Right. And so seeing anybody in a position to be flailing and infrustrated by something going on

would just exacerbate that. Yeah. So yeah, it's not fun anymore, man. No. So yeah, I mean, you want to keep that fighting spirit alive. That's a good priority. Finding intrigue or levity in frustration is not. No. Now, once the war is winding down,

there's only a very few attempts at screwball comedy even made. These attempts are met with predictably bad results. The word either turn people against screwball comedy or the genre had just run its course. I can't tell which, but I know that either way it was over. Little of column A, little of its course. I can't tell which, but I know that either way it was over. Little of Colomé, little of Colomé.

I'm going mostly with Colomé though, because you have such an abrupt shift in the course of a year. Okay. I'd say Colomé far more. Don't give everyone Colomé me exists. Yeah, but yeah. Now, once the war ended, people are trying to get their lives back to normal. Yeah. Scrooble comedy leaves a small void That was unsatisfied by wars and Westerns

But many considered that void acceptable Okay, we don't have that anymore variety ran an article that stated quote in on January 8th of 47 it said We have been through a long ruling war and the public is more serious and less frivolous. So here's a question. Go for it. You were talking about the genre of a screwball comedy. How does this line up on a timeline with the death of the musical? The musicals can come back with technical error. Because the visual

spectacle. Okay. And that'll be in the 50s, early 50s. Okay. And then but that'll then die out by the 70s. Okay. Largely because all the stars that have done musicals were too old to convince you can musicals. Continue doing it. Also, all the directors of that fanfare style stuff were pushing off and you had the aurs coming in.

So remember, 70s was a really artistically interesting time, but a shit time. Also, by this point, you also have the third generation of people in charge of the studios with the sensibility. There's a lot of factors in this. There's a lot of stuff going on. Now, this show is a reluctance to deal in comedy that deals with whimsical characters, obviously, and that means screwball doesn't have a chance. The only time that void comes back where male frustration is centered is television.

Oh, well, every sitcom dad, like ever. Not ever. Well, but- In the 50s, it was dad like ever. Not ever. Well, but- In the 50s it was not so. That's true. That's true. Ozzy and Harriet, I didn't happen. Leave it to beaver.

Right. Daddy knows best. Ward Cleaver never had to deal with any of that bullshit. Right. Wally did. Yeah. My father will point out how Wally did. Oh.

My dad. So, my grandmother actually vacuumed in her pearls. Oh, yeah, you told me that. Yeah, okay. My joke that my father and my uncle have is that they are in fact Wally and the beef. Okay. That like you can take an episode of Even to Beaver, put my uncle in the role of Beaver, my father in the role of Wally.

Oh wow. And you will probably capture a story from their childhood. It's worth noting that they didn't get along really at all until adulthood. And yeah, they were four years apart. My grandmother says that if their rooms had not done an opposite ends of their wing of the house, they'd have killed each other before I had to go to be a teenager.

Okay. Because at about the age where my uncle got to the point where he was an incessant tag along, my father was at the age where he didn't want his little brother around like at all. So is that really unfortunate kind of generational, well not generational, but simply timing. Yeah.

Like, oh. So yeah, but yeah, word cleaver never had to deal with any of that. No. But then you get into the 60s and you start seeing it. You really start seeing the 70s. Okay, well yeah. But you're right, you're right, there are some things.

I mean, Wilbur in what do you call it in Mr. Ed? Mr. Ed. He was frustrated. Skipper was frustrated. Yeah, well yeah. You know, so you have father figures being frustrated. Now that was late 60s, I believe. Yeah, well yeah, sure one-cheworth.

Yeah. But you know, what that brings up to me is, you say father figures, and yes, Skipper is definitely a father figure. But he's also kind of an inept father figure. Yes. Which is a trope that becomes a thing. Yep.

So, how many father figures were there on that island? Because there was Skipper, there was the professor. Not a father figure. No. No. No. No, he's a smart. Lan No, no, no, he's he's a small and he's a good science hero is that's the older brother. Oh, okay. Oh, he was Wally. Yep. Okay. All right, that makes more sense. Yeah. All right. Cool. So, uh, then Mr. Hell was the wacky neighbor. Yes. Okay. Yes. Oh my god, it all makes sense. All right. My God, it all makes sense. All right.

So veterans, in an attempt to build a life for themselves again, as well as a family, they settle in large numbers into the suburbs. Yes. Well, I take it back. White wasp veterans. Yes, it is. Settle.

Lamentown. Yeah. In fact, it was this settling that created suburb, right? Yeah. And with the suburb comes television's rise. Yes. Once television's are affordable enough shows become a source of family and neighborhood entertainment and shows like I love Lucy once again celebrate the

frustration of the male anti-hero. With the zany, yes, ditsy, smart, but kind of lunatic. Yep. Female figure. She is chaos, yeah. In carnit. Yeah, now this time she's also not obviously smarter than he is. Yeah, that did see button gets pushed hard. Yeah, that's true. So she's often somewhat shortsighted in her ambitions.

This is largely Lucy, but there's other female characters to do this. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh but that's been a through line for them as a couple and as an act since an earlier era. So that's a weird kind of edge case. Oh, damn it. I'm forgetting. It was a sitcom that was centered on the female lead. And oh, God, it was on Nickat Night when I was in junior high school. And the episode that I can remember of it, it's carried the actress's name as the So-and-So-Show. I can't remember her name right now. Oh, Mary-Cotton Moore?

No, no, earlier. Earlier. But anyway, one of the episodes, it was the introduction, it was when credit cards were brand new things. Oh wow. And the whole plot of the episode was she wanted a credit card. Right. Her husband wouldn't let her have a credit card.

And that was a lot of point. And they, because they didn't need one. And so somehow there was a monkey, there was a chimp involved. I'm saying monkey, but it there was a chimp involved. I'm saying monkey, but it's actually a chimp. Okay. And somebody's pet chimp. And she signed up for a credit card in the chimp's name.

And the wacky hijinks was that, you know, they put the name into the computer, which was, you know, the size of a refrigerator or bigger and all the big flashing lights on it because it was the late 50s. And it came back, oh yeah, no, no negative credit report, no history on that. Yes, well, I'll totally give him,

I'll forget whatever the card. And then wacky hijinks and gets herself into trouble and then her husband has to come in and pat her on the head and rescuer right you know and and so again male frustration yep but male fixes it but but but he is but he is the apolonian the apolonian figure who is ultimately successful in fixing everything. So order is restored at the end. And she learns a valuable lesson and goes back to you know forgetting it next week. And well one. And you know at the end of the episode she's you know back making muffins or whatever in the kitchen. Exactly. You know gender and gender roles, gender roles are

reestablished. Yep. No matter whether she'd been in a factory during the war or not, just throwing that out there. Yeah. Oh yeah. Talking about those guys coming back from the front. And you know, there was wanting to rebuild their lives. There were, and they had every right to actually want a job back.

Well, yeah, no, I'm not. Yeah. It just, yeah, it's not pie. You could have actually expanded the economy. Could have figured out a way. Yeah, good housekeeping, ran recipes all the time. And in 1940s, there were 10 minute recipes. In 1950s, there were hours and hours long.

Oh yeah. So just to await it. Because, you know, Lucy, Lucy Homemaker is home now. Right. Yeah. So again, Lucy, for instance, would often spend an inordinate amount of time getting out of her own trouble that she created, or ultimately needing his help to rescue her. Yeah. Find it in me this event.

Oh, that's right. Yeah. Or the, or my mother's favorite, my mother's a huge ball fan. Yeah, the conveyor belt with the chocolates. My mother, just talking about that episode, my mother will disintegrate. Oh yeah. It's, Lucy was fantastic.

Oh, she was a brilliant performer. But most of her antics are born out of boredom. So it's female frustration, leading to yes. But then it leads to frustrating him. And then he's he fixes it. Lucy, right? We've got some splint in to do.

Right, which I don't think that actually ever was set on the show. Really? I don't remember. Is either that one or him was, I'm home. One of those two Okay, I think at some point he does say you got some splinting to do but Lucy you got some splinted to might not be that that might be where That's like me. I am your father. I am your father. Yeah. Yeah, so Wow these shows the angle about female boredom had not and again, I want to say the Doris day, but I know it's not Doris day. I can't remember if you're patty. No, you know what, I'm

after I get home. Maybe. Yeah, I don't know. I'd have to. I definitely. But anyway, sure. Again, it's that, like the whole thing was a credit card, she's bored. Right, well, it's Lucy and Epo way. Didn't have jobs. No. Nothing noticeable. Well, they did have jobs for an episode at a time.

Right. To figure for hijinks, to cure the boredom. Or, you know, within the plot of the episode, it was, well, I want to buy a new dress for this event. You got to get a work for it. You got to get a work for it. But yeah, it was essentially, I'm stuck in the house, I'm cooped up, I'm bored out of my mind.

Yeah, well, in a woman at work was taboo, and not wanting to accept the place in society for her is what causes that frustration for him. And is viewed as Dionysian because she's not, she's out of her place. Right. Now this everyone could laugh at. Okay. And it was innocuous enough in presentation that it didn't threaten the social order because like you said, it keeps coming back. Yeah. So yes, it is screw ball comedy, but not. Yeah. It doesn't have the payoff that it's screw ball. It uses the same mechanic, but it doesn't have the payoff.

Yeah, well, it doesn't have the same level of unresolved sexual tension. Right. You know, because Lucy and Ricky slept in separate beds. Exactly. We used canonical, we know this to be fact, at least on TV. Yeah, well, and some of that, I think, partly he's those stuff. Well, that was the case, too.

But also, it's just easier to block a scene when you've got a middle shot camera. That's true. There's mechanical reasons for it. Yeah, but still. Yeah. Which explains why the first couple to have the same bed was a cartoon couple. Some stones.

You're right. Net, huh? Yeah. Huh. So, all right. During the Great Depression, Scrooble plays a very significant role of levity. It allows people to enjoy themselves for very little money, let someone else bear the

burden of your frustrations for a few hours at a time. It's a pressure valve. Yes. Leave your worries at the ticket counter. They'll be there when you pick them up. You can empathize with the poor sap who couldn't find his bronchosaurus bone. That's the plot of bringing a baby, basically. Had the depression continued without military conflict, Skrubal comedy might have enjoyed

a much longer run than eight years. Yeah. But it didn't. World War II's global effects and global conflicts drew almost everyone in on one level or another. People's interest shifted away from laughing at some poor fool and it became important to support the men who went to war in mind, to spirit as well as their body. Okay. It was not enough to collect scrap or work in the war industry.

People had to do their part for the war effort as much as possible. Psychically. Yes. Movies that took away from this focus quickly fall out of vogue and movies that display the elements of the American fighting spirit from war movies to romances to adventure movies,

those are acceptable to watch. Okay. Forvolody is unacceptable when so many of America's men are fighting in Europe and Asian. The nation was serious. Scruball comedy is a casualty of these sentiments, okay? Yeah. It produced forvolody when the nation was inwardly anxious

during the Depression. Cool. Scruball comedy allows an escape into a fantasy world. Cool. Acceptable during the Depression. But there's not anyone dying because of a lack of a new national cohesion of unity or purpose at that point. Okay.

They're dying from other reasons. But during World War II, Screwball comedy is to find very little purchase with the people. It's still trying to get them to escape into a fantasy world, and the people weren't interested in escaping into a fantasy world because their minds are already overseas. We don't have time for that. Yeah, we don't have time for that. Yeah.

Too much of the stuff going on. They perceive that the unity of purpose and thought, word, and deed was what their sons, their brothers, their husbands, their boyfriends, their cousins, their dads, everyone needed. The men of military age in their lives. Yeah. That's what they needed to or her turn home safely. So in some ways, the unity of purpose lets them feel the same relief that they felt that screwball comedy did during the depression because in the depression you're on your own, you should bootstrap yourself. During the war,

we're all in this together. Okay. Communism. Collectivism. Yeah. We can say collectivism. Collectivism. Scrabble comedy had ceased to serve the unifying role of giving people something to laugh at because the person they had been laughing at was a wholesome, if somewhat dull-weighted American male. During the war, most of your wholesome American men are risking their lives and laughing at someone who could be dying at that same moment. Kind of makes you a dick, yeah. So they needed to cheer them on instead.

Okay. As screwballs leaving, war movies and westerns were leaping onto the scene. Like I said, they offered skilled and tough smart American heroes. The competent man. Yes. These heroes are swaged American anxiety.

By the way that same competent man would grow up to be the incompetent father in the 70s. Yes. Because his teenagers don't make any sense and he fought in the war. Yeah. And why don't they that's. Why don't they get it? What you're speaking, what language are you even talking? The world has moved on.

I don't get it anymore. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So he's become incompetent through no fault of his own. There's a great line in inherent the wind. Perhaps it is you who've moved by standing still. Nice.

I liked it. So it's not a frustrated egghead fighting in the Ardennes or in Okinawa. It's a rough and tumble American who can handle himself. And this gives America comfort because screwball comedy's previous role was filled and it didn't fill the other one. So this unity of purpose took care of the need

to assuage the anxiety. other one. So this unity of purpose took care of the need to assuage the anxiety. And it's not filling the need to keep on going. So it had to wait until television gives it a medium to move to. So it died on the big screen, but slightly transformed. And it ends very differently. I watered down very watered down because it's not about sex. It's not about her sexual agency. And if it is about her sexual agency

in any way, shape or form, it's, you know. It gets quashed by the end of the episode. Exactly. And everything's back to normal. She gets, she gets reharnist. Mm-hmm. Intune the domestic sphere. Exactly.

But it eaks out of living on a small screen. So these elements of frustration are there. Yeah. But, and it's, elements of frustration are there. But and it's elements of frustration that deal with dealing with the new or trying to keep order, but you ultimately have ordered at the end. Now, there have been several attempts in specific movies to use Scruball concepts, but none of them have been attempts at reviving the genre. In 1972, Barbara Streis and used Scruball antics in WhatsApp doc. Okay.

Now, she wasn't trying to revive the genre, so it was much more just an attempt to try to redo bringing up baby. Okay. 20 years later, 1992, Goldie Hahn, frustrates Steve Martin to no end in House Citter. Yeah. Bordering on psychotic. Yeah. Yeah.

Her character readjusts his life for him. She's not just a manic pixie dream girl. She's a psychotic pixie dream girl. Yeah. But in the end all as well. Yeah. He sings to Raluro Loura, his father in front of his boss, and everyone thinks it's great, and he and Han

live scruly ever after. Yeah. And I mean that in both terms because in the 90s you could fuck. Yeah, you could do that. And Martin's frustration is painfully evident and quite frankly I think that's like his genre is being the frustrated man. Yeah. Like if you look at everything that he didn't write. Yeah.

He's typecast. Yeah. L.A. story. Parenthood. Yeah. Playing strings in automobiles. Oh, great. Anything with Queen Latifa. Yeah, well, yeah. Yeah. Well, anytime he winds up playing the part of a of a straight man. Yep. A central part of his role as the straight man is a frustrated men are for. Often, not necessarily all right. But yeah, but he, he, yeah, I think, I think you're right. I can, I can see the argument. I keep coming back to the wonderful way in L.A. story

that he's, he's, he's, he's not a real man. He's a real man. He's a real man. He's a real man. He's a real man. He's a real man. He's a real man. He's a real man. He's a real man. He's a real man. I can see the argument. I keep coming back to the wonderful way in LA story that he's in love with the age appropriate woman,

but because she's with somebody else, he's dating Sarah Jessica Parker, Sarah Jessica Parker, who is not age appropriate, 21, 21 or something. And the way he interacts with her is this wonderful, consistently baffled. Yep. Like, okay, I'm rolling with it. Yes. Like, huh?

Yeah. You know. Well, he does that throughout the end. I mean, the whole point of LA story. Yeah, it is. He's just buying into everything. Yeah, like everything. But I'll have a half-capped, I'll be capnated. Well, the twist. Oh, and the twist. Yeah, everybody at the table. Yeah, like everything. But I'll have a half-capped, I'll be caffeinated.

With a twist. Oh, addict twist, yeah, everybody at the table. Yeah, oh, and one of my father's favorite movies. Oh. By the way, wow. But you go ahead. I was gonna say, a house sitter. Yeah.

Was Pant. Oh. Yes. The viewer is typically just more uncomfortable than anything else. There's a whole thing. A most reviewers thought that Frank Oz did a horrible job directing the film called it a would-be screwball comedy and more grading than amusing. Here's the thing.

Yeah, there's a lot of what that was a lot. That was John Carpenter, different type of genre. There's a lot of cringe involved. And that's a whole subgenre in and of itself. Yeah. Of, of, we're going to put somebody through really uncomfortable stuff. I think that's Ben Stiller.

I think he, he is the best exemplar of that. Don't think that it's about cringing with Steve Martin. Okay. I think it bled into cringing. Well, that's kind of what I'm saying. I mean, the way those situations in that movie wound up turning out. Yeah. It wound up being that, which is part of the reason it didn't work is because that's not Martin's thing.

Right. And, and frankly, I don't like Ben Stiller movies primarily because they are so intensely focused on watch this guy grimace his way through this. Yeah. You know, and it's like, I don't want to watch that. It's painful. Yeah. You know, and it's like, I don't want to watch that. That's painful. Yeah.

No, that's, I feel sadistic. Like you won't be laughing at his discomforture and it makes me feel bad. That's a good point. You know, and I think when the intent of the plot is to be screwball and the delivery winds up going into cringe comedy. Yeah. You're automatically gonna suck

because you're missing the point, you're whiffing. You're swinging hard for the fences. Well, and let's get more in real hard, trying and you're failing on a central generic point. Yeah. and you're failing on a central generic point. Yeah, well, and I would point out though, that's the reviewers that are assuming that Oz was out to make a screw ball comedy. He never said that he was.

Now, he might have been, I mean, it has all the elements, all the elements. Yeah. But I would ask, would any director have been successful with any actors in any capacity in making a screw ball work at that time. Society is so different in 92 than it was from 34 to 42 that it would be impossible to touch the same cords that resonated so well back then. Well especially if a central part of your

thesis is the idea that the idea of a woman's sexual agency is inherently Dionysian and chaotic and like, you know, this is automatically going to be tripping this guy off because, you know, she knows what she wants and she's going after it and that's like crazy talk. Yeah. That we had the sexual revolution. Like we had, they had been, you know, the generation revolution like yeah, like I we had had there had been yes You know the generation who came up after screwball comedy had died

Yeah had had had the sexual revolution at which point that aspect of the formula for screwball Was kind of pointless. Yeah, I mean most of the people alive in 92 weren't working adults starting in 34. No. You know, those few who were working in 34 and still alive in 92 were not the same concerns by 92. Movies change with the times. Yeah. So today's screw ball comedy wouldn't be as well received using people's concerns as a barometer. And I just figured out I think I'm gonna posit that the

difference between screwball comedy or the heroine in a screwball comedy and a manic pixie dream girl is that the cultural context in which they are operating is one in which the first heroine is coming from a patriarchal set of circumstances in which the very fact that she knows what she wants and she's going after it is a source of comedy. Yes. Whereas a manic pixie absurdity whereas a manic pixie dream girl that's that's an essential part of the character, but that's not part of what makes her a figure of chaos.

Yeah, it's, she's got a lot more latitude. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree, I would agree. I also point out that the screw ball comedies that worked better came a little later, and there's also a sexual, well, there's a sexual dynamic, absolutely, And there's also a sexual, well, there's a sexual dynamic, absolutely. But there's also a racial dynamic.

Steve Martin. Steve, good point. Zary's there's some level of transgressive something. Go on. Okay. Yeah. So, screw ball was a genre that died because of World War II.

Yeah. I mean, that died because of World War II. Yeah. I mean, that's, there's, yeah. You've pretty much put the nail in the coffin of that. Now, the question is, Now, the question is, I think is, you settled that pretty clearly. Now, my question is, should we expect it to come back? I mean, Westerns had to come back in the mid 90s,

dance the walls, tombstone, wider, bad girls, unforgiven, Shanghai noon even. Yeah. They were not the same westerns as the westerns of the 60s and 50s and the 40s. No, themes were remarkably different. Any of them were deconstructions or trope inversions. Some were just non-monolous westerns. They didn't have a western feel to them. Like the quick and the dead didn't feel like a western. But if it had come about 30 years earlier, it absolutely. I mean, it's a tournament style shoot them up.

Fuck yeah. Well, you know, it actually, actually, it feels more like a martial arts film. Yeah, it does. It feels like a Kung Fu movie with six guns. Nominally a western. Yeah, not only a western. And the plots move along a different path.

Yeah. And the characters develop to different depths. And the same thing is true with screwball movies of the early 2000s. I think my own gut feeling on this is I think in order for the genre to come back in a meaningful way, we would have to see the genre somehow significantly adapt, or we would have to see some kind of very significant shift in our own perceptions of gender rules. I would agree. I think the central again, because we're talking about the very idea of the absurdity of the chaos character in a screwball comedy, being tied to gender in the way that it is, in order for that to become meaningful again.

Either some part of that formula has to change and it's gonna be a significant evolution mutation of the base critter, or our attitudes about those things are going to have to shift back in a fundamental way. Yeah, and I don't see that happening. And I don't think that that particular genie has escaped the bottle.

Yes. And our attitudes about gender roles can certainly change dramatically. But we're moving, I mean, right now, even with the kind of retrograde leadership that we have politically, you know, trying to do everything they can to jam every genie back into the bottle that they possibly can. Right. We're still seeing in our culture at large, not only more people paying attention to women's concerns and listening to what women have to say, but the very idea of gender as being,

this is what a man is, this is what a woman is, this is what masculine means, this is what women mean. I mean, you know, conservative comedy. Well, yeah, it's no longer a source of comedy. And anybody who tries to play at, well, you know, that's a woman thing, ha ha ha, or, you know, that guy, he's such a guy about that,

is gonna have a lot of people just arching their average, like that's kind of toxic masculinity, dude. Well, and like, that's really uncreative and not funny. That's really boring. Yeah. And then on top of that, there's just the fact that the majority of people in society are now becoming aware of the fact that general's are a construct. Mm-hmm.

I mean, the majority of people who are coming to understand that wouldn't phrase it that way. Because that's kind of, you know, point you had in woke talk. Right. But, um, you know, but the idea that, no man, you can be a dude and dress how you want to dress. You can be a woman and be an auto mechanic or an astronaut or whatever and that's not you know and and the original genre is so bound up it is and and this is the man and this is the woman yeah that it almost sounds kind of paleolithic well and you know the one place where that can still exist is the one place that I got pushed to by World War Two World War Two ends it that I got pushed to by World War Two. World War Two ends it on this big screen, but World War Two also brought us the GI Bill

and the growth of the suburbs and the growth of the nuclear family as the model and the growth of television. It got pushed onto television in a major way. Now, it morphed and modified, but ultimately, look at even your ensemble cast sitcoms, Big Bang Theory. Yeah. You know, friends. Yeah. I keep picking on friends.

Well, it's because you're doing your long-term stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the notes I've got on that. That's the phrase. Frasier. You there's there's so much You know, I cheers was an inversion of it. I mean, and you see a lot of that you see inversions of it, but you also see Well, you see inversions out of you see deconstructions of it. Yeah, I mean the responses to it I'm underlying trope is is there's there's a kernel of something there that speaks to people.

When you have the uptight cut the butter square, engineer type, and you have the Dionysian figure, that's a universal pair of characters to bounce off of me. Yes. Like Sesame Street, Bernie. Yeah, absolutely. You know, because Ernie is like so uptight, perhaps, diamonds, and Bernie is, as a matter of fact, an avatar of chaos. Yeah. So you're going to go ahead.

Yeah, it just, it might be the case that right now we're showing Sesame Street episodes to my son in the afternoon. It might be why I'm coming up with that example. That's a great one. I'm not saying that's why, but I'm saying it might be. It totally is. So, we have some sitcoms where you see the elements still there. You change who's doing what?

But these shows in large part have kind of given way to quote unquote unscripted reality television, which we roll our eyes at, but that's what candid camera was. True. And game shows also made a brief comeback. Yeah. It must have been a millionaire. Yeah. Hidden camera type shows, made a brief comeback. Yeah. It wants to be a millionaire.

Yeah. Hidden camera type shows, like I just said. Yeah. Screwball comedy might find that it doesn't fit anywhere in America's media despite everything else getting a second and third look. And it only exists as a small thread in the tapestry of whatever's coming new. Yeah. It might be one of the few art forms that will stay dead.

Yeah, or stay off of the main stage. I think that what you say about a thread in the tapestry is a good analogy. I think the elements of that story, again, because they can be inserted anywhere. That automatically makes for a great entertaining B plot. Yeah. When you bounce those characters off of each other, when you have any kind of a sitcom. Yeah. Oh, the new girl. Haven't seen it. Oh, okay. It's, it's, It is, as a matter of fact, I would argue, it just about manages to recapture. Oh, screwball. I can't remember the actress' name, but she is a manic pixie dream girl.

And the series is kind of an analysis deconstruction of that trope because she shows up and she's this agent of chaos and like oh my god what's going on and then you learn something about her and you realize no she's this way because she's actually kind of broken in some meaningful ways and so there's more nuance to it right play with it and they do stuff with it. But no, she is totally the... not having the agent of chaos and like all these other guys are these dorky nerds who really need to get out and break out of their shells. And it's yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think I think you're right. Yeah. Cool. Well, I think

we just talked about what we've learned from this. Pretty much. If people want to get a hold of you on the Twitter and argue with you, where should they go? EHBlaylock at twitter.com. Where should they go if they want to tell you that you are completely wrong about everything you've just said over the course of the last two hours. Straight to hell. Okay. But if they want to tell me how wonderful this was, duh harmony. There's two Hs in there. At on the Twitter. And then to get a hold of both of us simultaneously. And to suggest topics.

Yeah, you know, because we're getting a place where we got to think harder about this. So any bit of help you can provide. If you have an idea you want us to look into, send it to us at Geek History Time on Twitter. And we will take a look at it. We'll be a little bit surprised. Anybody has message on Twitter because we will be pleasantly surprised. But We will be pleasantly surprised, but you know, send that to us there and the first two people to do it, I promise you will get into heaven.

Wait, no, all right, I'm Damien Harmony and I'm Ed Blaylock, the Catholic in the room. And until next time, keep rolling 20s. Hahaha.