A Geek History of Time - Episode 67 - What the Jedi Could Have Been Part I

Episode Date: August 8, 2020

Wow. You're gonna like this. Oh no, I'm not. Cause there is no god damn middle. This is not unlike ancient Rome by the way. Not so much the family of circus. Yeah. I did, when I did Miratelia, I had the same issue as before Nancy.

A lot of them wanted to create self-sustaining farms and got into crystals. I know. Okay. I understand that. But yeah, I'm reading Livy, who is a shitty historian. Because Irrigan is. Others say that because Laurentia's body was common to all the shepherds around, she was called a shewolf, which is a Latin term for horror.

You were audible, lassies. It was just most of it, where they were slamming the table. As the Romanists at the table, well, duh. Yeah. Obviously, Ipso facto. Right. You know, it's your original form. Ipso, duh. You have a sword rack. This is a geek history of time.

Where we connect Nurtory to the real world, my name is Ed Laylock. I'm a world history teacher here in Northern California and I am also the father of a two and a half year old little boy who earlier today decided that he really really really needed me to play octanauts with him using his favorite toys in the world which are a pair of cheap plastic dinosaurs. Nice. So we were in the to me of, rather surreal position of playing out a storyline from a cartoon about a bunch of anthropomorphic animals who are, like, are you familiar with octanauts at all? No.

Okay. So imagine, like, Aqualab or DSV. Okay. Anyway, it involves submarines and, you submarines and traveling around in the ocean. But playing out storylines that involve anthropomorphic animals in diving suits only in this case. They were a pair of plastic dinosaurs. So yeah, I got my daily dose of dadaism today, that way, how about you? Well, let's see, I am a Latin teacher up here

in Northern California. I spent most of my day recording content for all my classes because I don't trust any district to get it right. So I'm going to have a backup system that is as asynchronous as possible. I am the proud father of two children, one who is 10 and a half and one who is eight. She just lost her second tooth up front. So now she's got the gap up in the top. And her brother taught me a little bit about compassion when it came to order 66. So it was a good week the last week. Alright. Yeah. So I like it. Yeah. What do you got for me tonight? Because

I am well, I am spent. Well, we haven't been working you pretty hard. Yeah. The last few weeks. So what I've got for you. Yeah. well, I don't know about that part, you know, social distancing and all. I have no idea, but I'll take your word for it. But, you know, it's interesting that you should mention order 66. Oh, because something that kind of jumped out at me, and I don't remember how I wound up getting derailed on this particular training thought. But it's been a week or two now. You know, the Jedi in the prequels, which of course is when order 66 ones have happened. Sure. Have a very specific kind of organizational structure. They have a very specific kind of a hierarchy that actually winds up becoming one of the more tedious plot

points when they have the whole manufactured controversy about, well, OK, Anakin, we're giving you the, we're giving you, we're putting you on account, you're going to get a seat on the council, but we're not making you a master. Right. As though it's a dear, a critic thing instead of like a revealed revelation thing. Yeah.

Well, you know, and then there's the very, I find it pointed. I actually find it very pointed that you talk about revelation, you know, in the terms of revealed scripture, which is interesting because of what it says about the paradigm through which the whole Jedi organizational structure is viewed, the lens and the whole paradigm in which they were created. And see, the reason for this, the reason I find it, it is reason it sticks in my teeth.

I'll put it that way. Is we have, there are so many other ways that the Jedi could have worked. Sure, in fact, there were so many other ways that the Jedi could have worked. Sure, in fact, there were so many other ways that it did work if you look at episode four, compared to episode five, and episode five, compared to episode six, and then you've got the entire EU, which at one point was canon.

And then he does the prequels while that conflicts with the canon because he's making fan films But so there are so many ways it could have worked because there are so many ways it did work And some some of the best writing in the books actually helps to address that and I'm hoping I can bring that in later Given where you're going. Yeah, not not not very much later because just where I actually want to start is with a place where you're going to be able to share your in-depth expertise regarding the broad canon of or former canon now legends, whatever you want to call it. Well, there's our words in the universe. Yes.

Yes. Orthodox versus. Orthodox versus reformed? I don't know how. What were we calling it? So, orthodox versus reformed? I don't know how we call that, okay. But the thing is, with all of the stuff that is there in the expanded university,

in the university, and all of the stuff that, like if he had spent any time reading a fucking textbook like at all. Okay. Any kind about any kind of pseudo-military martial arts organization ever in history. There are so many other storylines we could have gotten out of this. And instead the one we got was this and instead the one we got was well the one we got.

And so what I'm kind of calling this is what the Jedi could have been. But George Lucas fucked up again. Because as you'll recall, of course, a number of episodes ago back in the beginning of season two of our podcast, we opened our, and we entered into the Star Wars universe for the first time, was me talking about how George Lucas tried to introduce Buddhism into his cosmology and fucked that up. Yes. So this is one more example of that. Okay. I believe that. And so to kind of start us off, let's talk a little bit about

kind of the narrative history of the Jedi through, I'm gonna say just the Jedi through, I'm gonna say just episodes four through three. Okay, so four, five, six, one, two, three. Yes, yes. Will that include the books, which at that time were considered a canon,

even though they were considered a slightly lesser canon, a Diane canon, if you will. We can bring that in, because I know that's gonna be a place where you have a lot of information that I am not, as much as I love the Star Wars universe, I have not spent nearly as much time into the printed version of that universe. And so I know that's a place

where you can bring a lot of your expertise in. Sure, gladly. So, but to start out with, I'm gonna kind of ping pong back and forth a little bit here. Because very, very obviously, as came up in, you know, how George Lucas screwed up Buddhism previously, the Jedi themselves and like whole acres of tropic, tropiary, if you will, in the Star Wars. Thank you. I had a trim it around the edges a little bit.

But see, I can occasionally, I can bring, I can bring I can bring oh nice well done. Sorry well done So you do occasionally I do it compulsively so yeah, you know, yeah So but in any event you know in in in the beginning of you know the the The prehistory of Star Wars, if you will. George Lucas was this film student who was very, very, very powerfully influenced by, and I can hear producer George saying it ahead of me because he, he lives, and it's still no exactly where I'm going because it's where I always go.

Kurosawa. You know, and you know, anybody who spends any time talking about the cinema of Star Wars, like it's immediate that like so much out of, especially the first trilogy is cribbed, like stolen whole cloth from Kurosawa. Speaking, I mean with good reason because just the man is a genius. But, and so the genre of film that was was looking at mostly as the inspiration for this particular part of the background it's a pretty important part of the background of star wars

was uh... of the story of Star Wars. Like Obi-Wan Kenobi does the pointer scene almost literally with the lightsaber that is the pointer, because he says for, you know, and this is where I think Lucas did such a good job in episode four. He handled like four very important things in writing with like two sentences each. When they talked about the entire structure of the government, how will he keep the systems in line without the bureaucracy?

Tarkin walks in, the Imperial Senate will no longer be an issue, he essentially dissolved it. Yes. So that lets you know there was a Senate that lets you know that there might have been some sort of Republican as in Little R Republican overtones to the previous government that there is in fact an emperor and that that emperor has since dissolved the body politic that would help him to run things. And that this new death star would be the fear that keeps the systems in line. Like you know, that was done in two lines. Yeah, you beat me to it. Fear will keep the systems

in line. Yes. So, so, and then he does that with the Jedi with Obi-Wan Kenobi. He says, you know, for a thousand generations, they, they, you know, kept the piece in the galaxy and until the dark times, you know, and it's like until the Empire. And it's like, okay, so for 20,000 years, the Jedi were the dominant paradigm for peacekeeping. And then the Empire came, which we are going to learn about in just a few film like minutes. And they have been wiped out. And by the way, here's a guy that did it, who's still alive right now. So they were wiped out in recent memory even. So there's just so much that they handled just in the writing.

It was almost like a Greek play where all the action happened off camera. Because they only have a budget to talk about it. There was really something to that writing in episode four. Yes, the Jedi are a central part of the entire Star Wars story. Yeah, they're critically important to the construction of the universe. I think as you were talking about it, one of the things that occurred to me is there's a very important dichotomy,

part of the countercultural DNA of the original trilogy is the idea that we had this order of mystic warriors who have been wiped out by this mechanistic, overtly fascist military dictatorship system. And the Jedi were specifically, I mean, and of course Obi-Wan's being, you know, self-congratulatory at least, but, you know, talking about them being the guardians of peace, as opposed to from the very beginning, the first time we see imperial storm troopers, they are a tool of domination.

And so there's your right, that is brilliantly elegant in the biological sense of elegance, or the scientific sense of elegance, it's brilliantly elegant bit of writing there. And from the very first moment, we visually get a glimpse up close of Obi-Wan Kenobi who is a Jedi Knight. We later find out of course it was a Jedi master, but you know, so we see from the way that Obi-Wan Kenobi is dressed in that first scene. Anybody paying attention

to costuming detail and knowing anything about history of costume, we'll immediately recognize the the Japanese samurai movie influence in in the garments that he's wearing. He's literally wearing an open. He looks he he literally is in fact wearing an open. That's like and it's right there in his name. And and so so the Jai are the the Jai are are are crucial to the whole core of what Star Wars is. And they are themselves, or the inspiration for them, comes from the protagonist of this whole genre of Japanese film called Gideggerky. Now literally Gideggerky means period drama. So technically speaking, any kind of historical costume drama in Japanese is Jita Gecky. But what it is is usually used to refer to

is specifically these dramas that are set in the Aedo period, which for those not up on how Japanese history is divided into time periods, the Aedo period starts in 1600 and ends in 1868. That makes sense because there's 16 is eight times two and 1868 has two eights in it and so that's four eights so that's an eight O period. Wow, that you did that as rapidly as you did. I know, you're sitting there thinking wow Tokyo long enough.

Which interestingly enough of course is the modern name of the city of Aedo. I know what I'm doing. I know you do. Damn it. But that makes it worse. Yeah, it does. It really does. It really does. You realize that makes it worse, right? I feel like cheating. So but the defining the defining aspect of the Edo period is that for that 268 years the country was run by one family at the Tokugawa Okay 260 years by the way is two years shy of being 270 years, which is a cube number and eight is a cube of two. So I see what you're doing there.

And 270 minus 268 is a cube minus a cube. So I'm with you. I'm with you. You really need to stop watching QAnon videos. I haven't watched you. Because you know what? I don't believe you. Because you're finding a problem.

You were really there isn't like honest to God. There is. But anyway. Something I'll show you the napkin that I did all the work on squares and cubes on. This is not a lie. I found patterns between the sums of squares and between the sums of cubes and just the layers down and I've asked my mathematician friends because I'm like there's no way that my dumbass could have come up with this first Who found this and they're like well, we don't know who found it

But here's the principle behind it. We teach it this way. And I'm like I don't understand any of that I just understand these arrows that I drew It is the most idiot, sovant. I bring the idiot to Idiot, sovant, when it comes to yours. So my love of patterns has borne out yet again. Yeah, well, there you go. Yeah. I'm pattern recognition. By the way, a really good William Gibson novel.

So because that's where my brain goes. So it's anyway, this genre of film is take place in this period that is known as the Tokugawa Shogun or the Aedo period because they move to the capital to Aedo. And time out, time out. That means they had a capital prior. Yes. And that capital was a for the entire nation state of Japan?

Well, okay. Or it was just the largest, like it was like what the pressure was during the kind of thing. Yeah, no. Way back machine real quick. So before the, before the Ado period is the Sengokuji die, which is the age of the country and war. Technically speaking, everybody was supposed to answer to the emperor. Okay. Well, technically speaking, everybody was supposed to answer to the Shogun who was supposed

to answer to the emperor, but there wasn't a Shogun for over 150 years. I'm trying to remember exactly when one period ended and the San Ghojji die started. But during this time period, there was basically constant regional warfare because there was not anybody in charge to keep the local lords in line. Dimeo, literally big names,

think feudal war lords in line, Dimeo, literally big names, think feudal warlords, because that's what they were. Imagine what medieval France would have looked like if nobody had like bothered to listen to the king at all ever. Okay. Okay. Medieval French kings, of course, had a lot of trouble getting their nobles to listen to them, but it was kind of an on-again, off-again kind of problem. And some nobles would be like, well, you know, I could be king. I have almost this legitimate claim to the throne as you do, so I'm not going to need or need or, I'm sorry, Ninar, Ninar, I'm not going to listen to you.

But usually there was enough legitimacy and enough prestige attached to the crown that the king was able to get support to get people to toe the line. The sh- oh, it had literally disintegrated at the beginning of the- of the Sangokugji die, and- and everybody was scrambling to try to become the next shogun. Okay. And the emperor became even more of a political tool, and it was just massively chaotic period of time. Now what you're in so- Like range. Oh geez, okay. Well it's prior to the Adel period. So before the 16th century. Yeah, so yeah 16th? Well no, 1600, and I'm gonna get into exactly what it was that started the the ato period off. There's a specific reason why the year 1600

is the beginning of the ato period. Oh, okay. And it's it's specific battle that was one of the, was possibly the most pivotal battle in Japanese history. Gotcha. So anyway, prior to that, I wanna say we're talking about since about the 1450s. Okay, so let's say.

So is 150 years give or take. Okay. All right, I'm just trying to think of like when Portuguese traders got there and the Portuguese are using firearms. Yeah, well, see, here's the deal. So the Portuguese showed up and the originally showed up in the southern end of the country. Right. And so a number of southern lords got a hold of weapons. right that's why they called show guns. They

Nice nice nice that's you know I Never actually went there, but you know you're not entirely well. Yeah, no, okay Because I gotta I gotta think about is there validity no, okay Because I got to think about is there validity? No, okay. Because I'm that kind of p-dant. So the thing is basically at first, the introduction of firearms, the first couple of Dimeo who got a hold of them, what actually went up happening was a Dimeo bought like a dozen matchlock guns

from Portuguese traders. For small pieces of silver. Because they were a Dimeo. Yes, yes. They were literally a Dimeo dozen. And then he immediately handed several of the over to a swordsmith to figure out how to reverse engineer, how to make more guns. So at the very beginning of this arms race, Japanese Smith showed the same level of,

okay, I'm going to take this, I see this thing, and I'm going to reverse engineer it and figure out how to make it better for me at least. The same kind of genius that wound up propelling them into the front rank of industrialized nations in the wake of World War II, which we've talked about. Yeah. So, well, and they propelled them onto the world stage as a nation- state empire in the late 1800s under the Meiji era too. Like, it seems like this instinct, because there's different instincts that seem to crop up throughout the world.

This seems to be a very Japanese instinct, whereas other places like we're shut indoors, fuck all y'all, we're fine. You know, and this is anywhere in between. Yeah, so the thing is, during the Aedo period, once Tokugawaedo period, once Tokugawa took control, once once, uh, uh, Eeyasu, uh, unified the country under his rule, uh, he immediately clamped down on all foreign traders in the

country. He did, he did a couple of very important things. Number one, uh, he outlawed, uh, Christianity. we're not allowed to be a Christian, which forced Japanese Christians to go underground. And there's a whole fascinating history about the development of the theology of the Kodishi-tan in Japanese history, who when they finally made contact with foreign priests, a couple hundred years later, those priests looked at the things that had happened to Bible stories and the theology of what had happened in the background and went, you've done a Christianity, what you did with Buddhism before, and Buddhism was cool with it, but we are not.

Buddhism before and Buddhism was cool with it, but we're not. But anyway, we're getting off the subject. But so he cut the country off. He cut Japan off from the outside world entirely with the one exception that the Dutch were allowed to operate a trading post in Kyushu, and the southernmost part of the country, and it was very, very rigidly controlled. And do you know why it was that he chose the Dutch?

I don't, but I think I'm gonna love the answer. Because the Dutch were Protestants, which meant the Dutch didn't have Jesuits with them. And the Dutch... That alone is just hilarious. Which as a Catholic, I'm like, yeah, can't blame you. Fair, yeah. You know, I mean, this is speaking as a guy who attends a Jesuit parish. But you know, yeah.

But it was, okay, no, look, no, look, all you guys are Christians, But you're not the kind of Christians who are going to try to be subverting my authority by spreading Religion in my country and telling people that there's this religious Religious loyalty that they have to have above their loyalty to me. They're their tutorial, you know military ruler Right. Well, so like the Dutch could do their thing and the Japanese could do their thing Yeah, so he respected their willingness to go Dutch Nice. Thank you. Thank you. Jesus Christ So this is what happens when I have to do all the work. I don't get to get all the You don't get to get all the puns in

so So so these these period dramas take place during this time period when Japan was this bubble. There were no foreign influences. They even had, I mean, their contact even with China was very severely cut back. Yeah, Jim. Mostly because Tokugawa didn't trust the Chinese for, you know, historically not really bad reasons. Sure. Because, you know, Jenghis Khan had tried to invade 400 years before.

So, oh, I kind of can't blame him. And so, so the Tokugawa ran the country with an iron fist. Their authority was unassailable. And they took one of the kind of related genres, Gidageki kind of branches off into a bunch of different genres. And Gidageki, the genre can be seen kind of branching off into ninja movies, like Japanese ninja movies of the 40s, 50s and 60s.

And a whole lot of those stories have to do with ninja who had been mercenaries during Civil War period, during the San Gokugidi, they had worked for different clans. Once Tokugawa took control he said you have two choices. You can work for me or I can kill you all. And I have the military power to make that happen. And so those ninja organizations, families, whatever you want to say, the families who had done that stuff during the Civil War period became his secret police. Oh, wow. Okay. So he had, oh, yeah.

And he had, he, like, he, it was, it's very easy when you're teaching the history, especially to middle schoolers, and the seventh grade, it's really easy to say, okay, so now what we have is this feudal system with the show gun being like the king and the dyno being like these lords, and the thing is those parallels are there, and they are kind of valid, but they don't show the full picture,

and when you get to university level instruction, you basically need to say no no. This was a military dictatorship with feudal trappings. Okay, yeah, I can see that. I think it's interesting too that, um, so the Jedi Gecki movies are set in this period of time. are set in this period of time. In some ways, you're following around, I'm gonna use very broad brush, because it saves time. You're following, you have in the background complete and total authority. Yeah.

Okay, but in the foreground, you have essentially errant nights or lone gunmen wandering around. And I think about the Western movies that also absolutely inspired this. And the difference though, what I think is fascinating there is that the difference is there was no government out west. That's why people came out west.

They were fleeing in authority. Whereas the Japanese model is, there is a total authority in the background. Whereas in the American model, it's not, there ain't shit in the background. Like total, total lawlessness. Yeah, and the other difference, I think, is interesting right there,

is that in addition to the total lawlessness, so there's nothing propping anything else up. There are zombies walk, I'm sorry, Native Americans walking the land because they're the same thing in zombie movies, but they're Native Americans walking the land who are a continual menacing threat anytime you run out of writing ideas. I wonder and they're a native group that has been reduced quite a bit to a menace. Do they have anything in Jedi Gecki movies that are similar? Is there like, you know, that I knew are somehow represented in this? You know what's interesting? No, because by the time by the by the Aedo period, by the time period the gdagaki

Mostfully focuses on because there it should be noted again I'm describing gdagaki with a broad brush the overwhelming majority of gdagaki stories are from the aido period There are there's you know a subset of them that are during the the Sangokaji die and there are some that are from even Earlier in Japanese history, but but the overwhelming majority of them are during this time period. And by the time of the Aedo, the Ainu had been driven to Hokkaido. Okay. And if we wanted to look for a time period

that would generate that same trope for the Japanese, we would have to go back to before the hay on period. And if we could get into the way back machine, the Andre 3000 to get into the hay on period. Nice. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Okay, so no, there is no real analog to the name of American in the West. Not, not, not, not without an awful lot of subtextual difference. Right. Right. So, have you, no, it's not, have you seen the seven samurai yeah seven Samurai oh god yeah I mean I fell asleep the first time so I only saw six of

them but then okay no actually I loved that movie I thought it was phenomenal to the point where the episode of Mandalorian where they're training people to fight against the clatoonians Julia loves that episode and I can't wait to show them both William and Julia the Seven Samurai. Oh yeah. I'll be right over the floor to that. But yes, I have seen the Seven. So okay, I just want to go back just for half a tick more.

Okay. So in the American Westerns, which were absolutely influencing Jedi Gecky movies, Lawlessness existed and a menace that no law could help control. Yes. We're paired together as the background, whereas in this one, the background was a military dictatorship that was absolute. Yes. I think that's a really interesting contrast between those two, just in terms of the culture

because Jedi Gecky movies are in the 50s, you have American occupation, fresh on the mind. And whereas in America during the Western times it's essentially repackaging American, what do you call it, in individualism because of the threat of, oh, you've got the threat of communism. So you've got this pervasive minutes. So they're still writing at the time that they're writing. Like, they're still reaching back to the time that reminds them of what's going on right now. Oh, oh yeah. Yeah. And what's really interesting about Jidageki also is that it is the same kind of mythologizing of their mythologizing of their past and and and a and a harkening back to their cultural national identity.

In the same way that Westerns are at a time when there was a great deal of uncertainty, there was a great deal of, you know, existential threat. And for the Japanese, there was a great deal of emotional angst attached to the way the war had ended. Yeah, and so in Gidagaki stories, and this is how we're going to move back to talking a little bit about Star Wars this way.

It's great that you point out that the protagonists in these stories are these knights' errands, kind of figures, because the thing is some GDGeki stories like very broadly confided into two categories. There are either AIDO stories which are focused in and around futile, show-gunnel, Tokyo, or they are wandering stories, traveling stories, where you have the protagonists are protagonist or plural protagonists are these wandering swordsmen. And in nearly all of them,

because, so as you say, you're right, there is the backdrop of the Tocacoa Show in it, which was this absolute, just military dictatorship. And all of these stories in some way or another examine the way that individual heroes have to deal with that system breaking down for the little people, or people who are not at the top of the social order. Because the the token I was showing it was really, really great on a nation wide kind of scale. They were really, really good at maintaining their own power, keeping generally speaking, keeping local authorities, keeping local authorities, local feudal lords under control, meaning keeping them from coming a threat to their own authority and maintaining prosperity and overall peace within the country for 200 years, which the prior showgunnets had never succeeded in doing.

And of course there had been 150 years of civil war immediately before them. And so there's this kind of, well, yeah, fascist dictatorship, on the other hand, 260 years of no civil warfare, you know. Yeah. It's like a battle panel, which way you want to go. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah.

And so they, the heroes wind up encountering these places where that system is broken down. So the seventh samurai is a classic example. It's like literally a textbook example of G. Diageki. And so these bandits who used to be samurai, who were fuel warriors fighting during the period of civil war, are now living in the hills, and they have now formed their own army under leadership of some, you know, nobisari leader, and they're saying, you know, you got to pay up or we're going to kill you all.

Right. And so the people of this village now need help and the local authority doesn't have the tools to do that because he's in Ado. He's in the key's been pulled to the Capitol by the show going to make sure they can keep an eye on him because part of the system was as a local dime-you, they called it alternate attendance. You would spend one year in Ado acting as a flunky to the Shogun, and then you would get to go home to your own territory. And so while you were in absentia, you had some other member of your family, somebody

else running thing. That's sure. And so, you know, if your local board was in Ado, you had to rely on whoever was there to solve these kind of problems. And in this particular case, it's like, well, you know, it's one village and to the show, and whatever, it's one village,

it's not that big a deal. They're not gonna, you know, so the villagers have to find some, you know, knights errand to save them. This sounds very Robinhood, you know, in some ways. Like there's a different mechanism for removing the guy who keeps the order, but it sounds very Robinhood on some levels. It also sounds very similar to, you have a town marshal, but you also have

a county sheriff. The county sheriff is almost always a unreliable fellow, and the town marshal can only do so much. And that's why you need to have, you know, merely this device come in. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody's hands are tied for some reason, you know, and and in very many of these stories talking about the Westerns parallel, you know, you have the situation where there's, you know, some oil baron, some local landowner who wants to, you know, drive all the small holders off their territory because, you know, he wants to get the mineral rights or he wants to bring railroad in and make a bunch of money, whatever. And so he gets together his hardened killers, bunch of ex-confederate types. And they're gonna kick everybody off the land and you've got to have Shane come riding into town.

Exactly. You know, the night-errant wander in. And so it's the same mechanism, clean up the town, it's the same mechanism. Only in many of these stories, it's well, you know, the nephew of the local lord is insane and he's kidnapping, you know, the daughters of local families. the daughters of local families, but because of the family's connection to the show, and it isn't going to do anything about it, because the embarrassment would be too great. So we've got a higher samurai execution

or to come in here and do the job for us. And so, and I can, and the historical mechanism of actually having all of these wandering swordsmen, I can get into later, but the, because they actually did have all these wandering swordsmen, and bandits were a problem, but we can get into that in a minute, but narratively, this leads us directly to this conception of the Jedi that we get in the original trilogy. Yes. Of being these, you know, they're not really, it's never stated in the original trilogy.

It's something that hits me in the face every time I think about it. It's in the face every time I think about it isn't the original trilogy We we were never given the idea that the Jedi were agents of the Republic Right, they seem to do it on their own and even in episodes one two three They were agents of the Republic without being agents of the Republic like that was a plot, was that Palpatine was grabbing more Republic power over the Jedi, and they were chafing under the idea of that, the very idea. Yeah, yeah, in the in the in the prequel, yeah, in the prequel trilogy, we then so in the first and the first three movies and in Splinter of the mind's eye. Oh boy. I want to go back to splinter the mind's eye.

Okay. Yes, I know. I know. We're just going to compartmentalize very heavily here because we're going to take all the all the itch that's involved in. Nobody knew that Leo was Luke's sister yet. Right. And we're going to shuffle that off to one side.

And the conception that Luke carries in his head, of what his job would be in that situation as a Jedi. Right. Is solidly that he is somewhere between a night Templar, you know, peerless skills, you know, ass kicker. Right. Wandering Swordsman and Paladin of Charlemagne. Like, you know, and there's no...

So the night's Templar were religious order, but they were night Knights first and foremost. There is not this conception of Jedi being particularly monk-like at that point in the conception. We don't see, we don't see monkness until we get to Empire Strikes Back. Right. Which is where it first comes up. And again, I'm going to say this is also where we really first get the overt introduction of kind of Buddhist ideas.

And you know, know Eastern direct Eastern like the Eastern mysticism of it all is is overt for the first time when when when when Yoda starts starts teaching. Oh yeah. Yeah because if you look back to Obi-Wan's teachings, number one, I mean he'll new Luke for like four days at the most. So how much could he have told him and half the things he's telling him are to manipulate him into coming with him. But you know, like, hey, here's some cool tricks you can do to prove that I'm right. And you know, here's some like basic, like, like, oh, your feelings, feel the force flowing

through you. And it's clear that I'm not force sensitive because I can't make heads or tails any of that shit. But, but, you know, like him telling Luke all these things, it's, he's getting a super crash course in Jediying. He's teaching him what he can while he can. And that, that right there feels very much like individual mystics can tap into the force and do this thing that loosely ties them all together. Maybe if you see another one, you're bound to

help him or what have you, but otherwise you just kind of wander the earth like Kane. And then you get to episode five and it's way more monk, way more monk like like hey, there's a whole training system here, you know, like and in the novelization it's even more for episode five, because I mean, Yoda has these little balls of energy that shoot the shit out of Luke and knock him out for hours on end, but you know, like, hey, you should have been watching, but it is very monk-esque as in, you know, in that, you know, like, we're going to physically exhaust you and then teach you the philosophy. So it's very, very much the suffering, monastic order. Yeah, the eschieticism becomes much, much clearer.

And also the duality that you've spoken to last time, the poor understanding. Yeah, yeah, that, okay. Let's also talk about how George Lucas screwed up. That was him, you know, while we're at it. But so, but the concept of what of how the Jedi operated and what a Jedi was is still at the end of episode six, I am a Jedi like my father before me. He is making a statement about how he identifies, like what side of this dualistic, this dualistic conflict, you know, spiritual conflict, he falls on. Yes.

And, and there is still this idea that, that it is about, that there is all this philosophy involved in it, but it is, it is an active philosophy. It is not merely like identifying yourself as being a stoic. Yeah, it's not a naval gazing. Yeah, no, it is a very, it is immensely active and it is, and he does not say, I am part of the Jedi Order. He doesn't say, he says, I am a Jedi. Yes. And the thing is, I'm gonna go back to Gidekeke here

and go back to the history of Gidekeke because one of the things that's necessary for a Gideakeki story to work is you have to have samurai. Because in Ado period, Japan, being a samurai was not just your profession. Okay. Being a samurai was your position in society. It was a rank. It was a role in society. It wasn't just a position, but as as samurai, you were a member of the class that was allowed to carry weapons that was required to serve the social order. And in order to have a GDG story,idegaki story is always in a sword fight. And again, very broad brush, but the exceptions are vanishingly rare.

It always ends in a sword fight. And the wandering hero in a wandering Gidegaki story, the wandering hero takes on the role at the very least of a Ronin. Okay. If he isn't actually Ronin himself. Now to clarify, a samurai was somebody who was in service to a dime hill. You had a feudal relationship to somebody who gave you, you know, lodgings, you know, put you up at Barracks at the very least, or if you were higher ranking, he provided you with a home in a small plot of land. Right.

And, you know, you were, you had a feudal obligation to that individual, and then through that individual to the show of it. As a samurai. Now, the reason the Ado period is dated to 1600 is because of a battle, the Battle of Sekigahara. Okay. This is going to link up in a second.

At the Battle of Sekigahara, Tokugawa Ieyasu solidified his control of the country. In a massive pivotal battle, and it was the army of the east versus the army of the west, Tokugawa was the leader of the Eastern Army. At the beginning of the battle, they were outnumbered, but halfway through the battle, one of the families that was supposed to be fighting for the Westerners switched sides and entered the battle on Tocca Gow's side, which turned the tide of the battle. Did they do this fight? Right. Were they holding back on purpose to do this or did

they decide mid-battle like, hey, this is a better move? Togogo had reached out to the Lord of that family beforehand. He had a personal relationship to the young man who was the leader of that particular clan. And so much like Try to remember which family it was at Don't geez wars wars the roses anyway. Oh, pleasure. It's and the yeah, yeah, yeah, but but Battle Bosworth field at Bosworth field there was a very similar dynamic There was a very important, powerful military family that kind of edged their bets and then threw in on the side of the tutors, similar kind of thing at Sekigahara, this family threw in on the Tokugawa. And so, ever thereafter,

for the rest of the Tokugawa, shogunate, all of the major noble families of Japan were divided into two groups, Eastern families and Western families. And that didn't always correspond to where their territory actually was in the country because one of the first things the Togogawa did was as soon as he had the power to do it, EASU picked people up and moved them. Oh, that's very English-king. Your- Oh yeah, your family has been ruling this territory

right here for the last 300 years. I'm picking you up and I'm moving you over to the other part of the country. It's the exact same amount of territory. Your income is probably shrinking slightly, but you can't complain about it because on paper it looks the same. But the people who live there are not your people. Right. You have to reestablish new relationships. So while you're scrambling, I've got more power. And now you're dependent upon me for your power.

And I will package it as a way of you are so good at what you're doing. I need to move you over here. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. So good at what you're doing. I need to move you over here Yeah, yeah pretty much yeah, and There's there's a great there's a great example of Of this was the Shimatsu clan of Satsuma one of the one of the southernmost Sheftums in in the country on the island of Kyushu

the Shimatsu clan were part of the Western army at Sekigahara, and he didn't move them. But he did give them every shit job that came along for the next 250 years. Very, very notably, there was a point, I think it was in the 1700s, and I don't remember exactly when, but there's a really compelling set of manga, several volumes of where the story has been told in that medium where the Shimatsu samurai were sent to a completely different part of the country to do flood control work. And it was literally back breaking like deadly, you're going to shed your blood doing this

kind of labor. Right. And it was, it was how to put this in a confusion a confusion society nothing ever gets done Completely bald facetly But it was it was as bald faced as the show gonna get away with being that no, no You're you're the people we've been sitting on we're continuing to shit on you because You you had the temerity to stand against us at Sekiya Haras. So we're sending you Right, you're gonna go do this and if you don't we're sending you. Right. You're going to go do this.

And if you don't, we're going to send all of our loyalist armies in there. We're going to kill every last one of you. You know, was the overhanging threat. Right. So, so anyway, but this led to an entire, a vast portion of the samurai class being living in a state of Gentile poverty for one thing, because the Tocca Gawa couldn't afford for any of the time you had enough money to build castles, build fortifications, maintain their own army. So they forced them to live lavishly while they were in Ato, forced them to hold parties, forced them to

spend an awful lot of money bringing what entourage they did have to end from the capital every other year, and basically kept a whole bunch of these families on the verge of bankruptcy, like constantly. But they had the prestige of being samurai. And at the same time that you have this group of people who are clinging to this to this class privilege, you also have all of the swordsmen who were serving families that were destroyed. So they are still of the samurai class. They still have the right to carry weapons. They are still a step above commoners. Sure. But they're penniless. Right. And they are and they are wandering, they are wandering

swordsmen, Ronin men of the waves. And so Ronin had this bizarre kind of, they were nobles, but they were also vagabond beggars, kind of thing going on. They were supposed to be upholding this very rigid code of warrior behavior and set of warrior kind of ethics. your behavior and set of warrior kinematics. And one of the ways this one of expressing itself for Ronin and anybody in the samurai class was, and I think this is unfortunately very, very pointedly relevant to current events today in our country, they had the right of Kiri Sittik-Gulman, literally cutting paper. Oh, this is not going to sound good in the next two sentences.

No, it is not. Samurai were a class above commoners. Okay, and we're not even going to talk about how many steps above eight-hour outcasts they were. Okay. But any samurai had the right as a member of the samurai class to punish any commoner who was insufficiently deference. So if a commoner was to slow, o'in bowing or gave him lip or did anything to insult the

samurai's honor, the samurai had the right to cut that peasant down. Like paper. Like, well, yes. And literally all he would have to do is go to the local essentially magistrates office and say, I, Hintaro Sejudo, cut down this peasant, this oil seller to give an example out of James Clevel, cut this oil seller, to give an example out of James Clevelle, cut this oil seller down in the street because he dishonored me. I did it on this day at this time, hour of the horse at this place, et cetera, et cetera.

And that was it. You just basically had to fill out the paperwork. And so if anybody was insufficiently respectful to a samurai or a Ronin for that matter, that member of the samurai class had the class privilege right to end that peasant's life, which you know, kind of brings me around to the way people respond when police decide they're going to shoot people in our country right now. Well, you know, you should not and do it in that. Oh, okay, so we're just giving the police this right to do that. Then, okay, fine.

Yeah. You know, while at the same time those same law enforcement officers are going to war your cop trainings. Yeah. You know, where they're being taught that, you know, there are wolves in their sheep, and if you're a sheep, you think a sheep dog looks at off a lot like a wolf. Right. Like, you know, how about you stop being so condescending, recognize that you are in fact a civilian because you can quit at any fucking time, unlike an actual soldier, and

how about you do police work? Yeah. Assholes. So, which is in some ways how a know, here's the Jedi and here's the, how to put the perception of them was such that the Jedi were not the good guys, they were just the ones who were more powerful. Being more powerful didn't make them more right and they seemed to confuse the two. That was a standard through line in the novels.

Okay. So this is of course pre and post the the original. Like, you know, when it's when it's in the prequels a lot of people, which is what they use to explain why the separatists work, why so many people flee to the separatist and fight the Jedi willingly. Okay. Yeah. So. Okay.

Well, yeah, I know, and that does make sense. But what's important to note is, again, that you had this, you historically speaking, there was, like honest to God, there was almost kind of a Jedi class in Japan, which is you had these highly trained, because you don't, you don't learn, you don't become good with, with a samurai sword or a spear or any of that kind of stuff, you know, overnight, you have to spend a lot of time learning how to do it. I think six months, I think, because that's, that's how long it took Tom Cruise to do it to to beat to beat the guy who taught swordcraft in in the last samurai

So yeah six months six months you get to be good at it. Yeah, which is still more training than our police get Yeah, yeah, and and and you, of course, Tom Cruise's character had the advantage of being an American, which means that that cuts the training time for anything down by like 300% in any movie made by Hollywood ever. In fairness, I will say at least they gave him the background of being a soldier who used swords previously. At least you did that because when you had dances with wolves, you didn't have any of that and the white guy still became the best Indian.

Yeah, okay, yeah, no you're right. But at the same time, I don't think six months will get you to fighting to a draw with the guy who teaches you everything. No, speaking as a student of actually trying to learn how to use a sword, not a katana, of course, but a sword. You know, not so much. No, not so much. But for anybody who was honest to goodness, a trained swordsman, they were the best at what they did,

and what they did was not very nice. You know, and they were expected by the society they lived in to follow this incredibly rigid, in many ways, really toxically macho kind of code. Oh, yeah. And so that gave rise to anybody slides your honor. If it's another samurai, you're gonna have a duel. If it's a peasant, you're just gonna fucking kill him.

And then there was this huge issue. As the Togogawa Shogun went on and on and on, you had this class of the only people who could reach, you know, middle rank or higher in the social bureaucracy of the government, were members of the samurai class, and so they identified as warriors but they made a living as tax collectors and civil engineers and all of the other bureaucrats that you need to have in order to make a government run. Sure. And so there was as a class, they had this massive identity crisis going on, which in some more

recent samurai movies is wonderful. It gets explored in a really great way and a couple of them. But in Gidey Gekki, what you have is the Western, it's like in the Westerns, you have the romanticized soft-focused kind of version of this, which is, well, the men who weren't able to do that, the men who lost their family, lost their position, went off into the world, wandering, and along the way, when they see the system, there's the situation of injustice they, they, you know, they're compelled, they have to do something about it. Right.

Um, and, and it's very, very confusion. You know, it's, it's based on the idea that, that, you know, when, when they, when they see somebody being dishonorable, they can't walk away. Right. You know, and even, even when the protagonist is morally gray, you know, he eventually has to come around on the side of defending, you know, the the Star Cross lovers, or helping the windows and orphans,

or, you know, and so in my favorite Gidhkai movie of all time, Yogyimbo. Okay. It's it's Kurosawa directing and I completely forgot his name, my favorite Japanese actor of all time. To share funny. To show him your funny. Correct. Thank you. And to share my funny in the title role, he plays this guy who is outwardly a scoundrel who winds up, who winds up turning, not turning, playing one organized crime family off against the other. And and kind of kind of for for the first the other and and kind of kind of for for the first 25 30 minutes of the movie he's kind of playing both sides against the middle and and kind of making some money and comfortably off of it. And

then his plan all goes to to shit because he he won he kind of gets caught out but the reason he gets caught out is because he he has to step into save an innocent bystander. Okay. And then once that happens, it's like, okay, no, I got to fix this by basically killing everybody. And so then you have the combination master swordsman and Gle hero then being then then also turning out to be basically unkillable Even though it gets I mean he gets he gets it the shit kicked out of him But but they don't kill him and he comes back and and you know, it's a great movie

And I'm doing it. I'm doing a massive disservice by oversimplifying it, but anyway So but but that's that's the kind of story arc. There's is ubiquitous in the genre is this wandering warrior who has this innate moral code who gets pulled into having to do the right thing whether they really want to or not. And so the historical template for Jidai Gecki or the samurai and the Ronin of the Aedop period. And so spiritually it's the samurai and the Ronin of the Aedop period who are the genesis of the Jedi. OK. And so that is where that all brings us to this point. That's actually a really good cutoff point.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Yeah. You're absolutely 100% right. Um, so yeah, if you need to tidy up a few more edges there, um, you're welcome to do so. But if not, then we can, we can certainly, uh, turn this into a two-parter, if not more. Oh, it's going to be more in two parts because there's, there's, there's, there's more, there's more to say about the historical routes of this with samurai. Good.

And then we can get into what the Jedi actually wound up looking like, which is a lot more like the order of the Knights Templar, which I can go into. And then what it could have looked like, which in the east is, I'm gonna talk about apostolic succession as it were in lineages of martial arts, you know, teacher to student and different schools of swordsmanship, different schools of Karate yaito, ikido, etc. And then I'm also going to talk about the Freifester guilds of Germany and how that could have been a model, the Jedi could have been built on and some of the stories we could have gotten could have been a lot more interesting. Cool. So based on where we are cutting off, what is your takeaway right now?

Take away right now is that you know when you see a movie is inspired by true events? Yeah, yeah. Normally, there's literally a nugget of it and it might just be a costuming nugget that gets through. So, and this doesn't even claim that, but it... I think the Jedi, like I said earlier, the Jedi in the canon, just in the what was called the Lucas canon, by the way, there are different levels of canon. What was called the Lucas canon, the Jedi in that went through a number of changes as he kept writing,

because he didn't write with the end in mind, and the Jedi show that pretty clearly. So I would say that my takeaway is essentially that maybe a central valley, car enthusiast, filmmaker from the Artur tradition, doesn't know shit about shit when it comes to actual history and antecedents, and it's a really good thing that a committee and a studio hemmed him in for the first three episodes because those were good. But when his wife was not editing his shit for him and when nobody was hemming him in because he was the studio, we saw when...

And when he didn't have Harrison Ford there on set to look at him and say, you can write a shit George, but you can't say it. Right. But even that, it was still the editing process that saved that whole movie. Oh, well, yeah. No, but so I'm sure you did, but I'm gonna ask anyway. Did you ever watch, I know, with the prequel trilogy in the box set, there was behind the scenes before, before the film was, while they were in storyboarding

and all that stuff, they had all kinds of stuff that got turned into a documentary. And I don't remember who it was, but it was one of the guys at ILM who kind of acted like the kind of stage manager of the documentary. And he would, they'd be interviewing him and he'd say, well, you know, and George, you know, had this really great set of ideas. And when I went in the storyboard, it was just, and he was like, in those moments where he was talking

directly to the camera, he was just effusive about like, oh man, this was so great and everything. And then you cut away to an actual scene where Lucas is going over the storyboard with a bunch of people in the room, including this guy. And it is so clear that everybody in the room is terrified of saying a word. Is this where Lucas has the highlighters?

And he's like, this guy's digital, this guy's not, this guy's digital, this guy's not, is it during that scene? Yeah, I just, oh well, that one and a whole bunch of others. And there's just a whole bunch of people in the room who are like, whatever you say, because at this point, you're the God Emperor of I-O-L-M, and if I say anything, I'm out on the street,

like nothing. Well, with a ton of experience, but yeah, at the same time, I don't get to be under the wings of the dragon. So, yeah. I think that was Ralph McQuerry. No, I take that back. It was Dennis.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh shit. I gonna live but you know you know what I'm talking about yeah Just like like in all the interview segments. It's like Clearly he thought George was gonna watch every minute of it. Oh, yeah, so he was just you know stick it his lips right on the starfish and And then you and then you watch the actual film of everybody was acting like oh yeah, I'll tell you a fight of the man Oh, yeah, oh my god, yeah, and the idea is he was sharing we're just bad. Yeah, oh yeah It was well like it's Rick McCallum. That was the guy's name. Oh Yeah, yeah, I knew it was a Scottish name

but it was it was like how to... Yeah, like everybody was afraid to tell him that you're making a fan film, George. You know, I love how you encapsulated all into that because it's totally correct. It really is. And that's not the way I ever would have come up with phrasing it on my own, but you're totally right. And it really, it really is. Like, so what we're saying here is you watched troops and decided you wanted to do that.

Yeah, you just have more money. Like you're a money mark, you know? You'd like all like all the money, all the money. No, George Lucas was the WWF and he turned into GFW, which if you have not watched a documentary on the global force wrestling, yeah, God, oh my God. But the guy who developed it,

it was just hilarious, they asked everybody, like what would he be doing now if he hadn't died? And one person's like, time. And when he died, there was a wrestler who's like, well, you know, he died doing what he loved. Cocaine and hookers. It's just so much fun.

It's so much fun. Oh my God. So what you're saying is, I was the geo exotic of professional wrestling. Yeah. After a fashion, yes. Yeah, that'll date us. So anything that you're reading or watching as of late?

Oh, I'm up to my neck and the process of trying to prepare for virtually teaching my students until October. So not really. I wish I can say something different, but no, I will say that folks who listen to our episode back in season one about Thatcherism in 40k may or may not be heartened to know that I have actually started spending an awful lot of my spare time back in that universe again. Good. Preparing for November, I see. Well, yeah. If I can figure out how to use a bolt gun between now and then probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

I have oiled up my chainsawer and I'm ready to go. But I was just thinking in terms of heraldry. Yeah, well, yeah. So, but yeah, that's pretty much what I got going on. How about you? What are you reading these days? Let's see, I am also feverishly putting out content that that will be district proof for my students. So just tons, tons and tons and tons of you're instantly more productive than I am. I haven't put out any content yet. I'm just busy boning up on what the hell am I going to even try to do? Well, the advantage of teaching a skills-based class that I am the only expert on in the entire

district. But, yeah, I just show up in no stuff. It's kind of nice. But I do recommend, if you get a chance, go watch The People versus George Lucas. It's a delicious little film, documentary, I think that's where I actually crib the stance and the verbiage for he made a fan film. I don't think that's mine.

But I think I got it from there. So I would recommend that and other than that. Oh, the other thing I would recommend is I have fallen down the deep rabbit hole of watching Letter Kenny. Oh, really? Oh my God, have you seen that? You need to see that.

I'm a bit of it. I haven't actually said, I haven't watched the series. I've seen the clips that are all over YouTube. Oh, I don't know any clips that are on YouTube. Just watch the videos. Don't fuck up. Don't Don't fuck up my steak dinner dairy. Yeah, that's that's in there But like I will strike you There there is so much good writing and so much trusting of the audience in that show I strongly recommend that you go watch it.

So that's what I would recommend. So as- I'm gonna have to check it out then. Always working people find you on the social medias. I can be found on the social medias. Thank you, Squirley Dan. They can find me on the social medias at Mr. Blallock on the Instagram, sorry, took me a minute, on Insta at Mr. Blaylock.

They can find me on the Twitter at EH Blaylock. And if you really want to be disappointed, you can look for me on the TikTok at Mr. Blaylock as well and find the one video that I put up. Nice. How about and of course if you want to shout at the two of us on the Twitter you can go to Geek History Time. Yes. And Mr. Harmony where can we find you on social media? You can find me at duh Harmony that's two H's in the middle on both Twitter and Instagram as Rosales underscore Pedro did this last time. Shout out to him asking about the Hawkeye comic

that you mentioned. So I put him onto the track of that. That's the action one. Yes. And from 2015. And so you can find me on those as he has and as several others have as well. Yeah, no, I think that's about it.

You can also find me on twitch.tv-cappable-punds. Capital with an O every Tuesday night at 8.30. So, and if you are a producer looking to produce a wrestling talk show, calling it in the ring is on hiatus until we can find ourselves a good producer. So hit me up. All right, so for a geek history of time, I'm Damien Harmony. And I'm Ed Blaylock and remember fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hatred. And hatred leads to a deep misunderstanding of how Buddhism actually works.