A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - Are Tomatoes a Fruit or Vegetable?

Episode Date: August 12, 2020

Developed from the ovary in the base of a flower containing the seeds of the plant. Must we adhere to this outdated and close-minded label, or can our food finally enjoy a more fluid identity? Today we ask: Are Tomatoes a Fruit or Vegetable? To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Developed from the ovary and the base of a flower containing the seeds of the plant, must we adhere to this outdated and closed-minded label, or can our food finally enjoy a more fluid identity? Today we ask, are tomatoes really fruit? This is A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what?

That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, the show where we break down the world's biggest food debates. I'm your host, Josh Ayer. I'm your host, Nicole Handizadeh.

And today we are answering the question, are tomatoes fruit? Hold on. This, we need to clear this up because I wanted the title of this to be Tomatoes Ain't No Damn Fruit. Okay. Because I stand by that. So you can ask me that. I don't even think it's a question.

Nicole, tomatoes ain't no damn fruit. Do you agree? No, I don't agree. They are fruit. Well, you think tomatoes are fruit. Of course they're fruit. So you're buying into the hype. It's called science.

You're taking the blue pill. You're fine going back to this false reality that we've all grown up in. I believe in science. Do you believe in science? I believe in the science we've all grown up in. I believe in science. Do you believe in science? I believe in the science that I want to believe in. No, that's not true. So you believe in pseudoscience?

I prefer the term quasi-science over pseudoscience. No, I, okay, this gets very complicated really quickly. Okay. I do believe that via the scientific botanical definition of a fruit, which is anything that actually contains the reproductive structure of the plant, i.e. the seeds, that that is the fruiting part of the plant. So I believe that tomatoes are the fruiting part of the entire tomato plant. I do not think that makes them a fruit. Because when we say the phrase, are tomatoes fruit? So Nicole, I say, are tomatoes a fruit or a blank?

What's the word? Complete the sentence. Tomatoes. Cardigan. You think I'm asking you, are tomatoes a fruit or a cardigan? Yes. What are they?

Are they a cardigan? It's a light jacket. I don't know what a cardigan is, but I know my grandma bought me one once and I didn't like it. It's a light wool jacket with buttons. What's a chemise? I don't know about all that. It's just like a shawl.

I think it's like a shawl. Just kind of, you know. Like over the shoulder? Yeah a shawl I think it's like a shawl just kind of like over the shoulder yeah chic I do like when like you know you're like your girlfriend's like can you like put this jacket

and just kind of lovingly drape the jacket over their shoulders ugh god it feels so good I just kind of grab her and say give me it I'm cold vegetable the answer is vegetable

when you say is tomato a fruit or a blank the question is is tomato a fruit or a vegetable we're working in a dichotomous world right here between fruit and vegetable because that is the actual lens that people are viewing this through, right? Yes.

Nicole, are you a botanist? I sure can be. How much do you know about Linnaeus? I know about Linnaeus. How much do you know about Mendel's seed pod experiments? Is that the Punnett Square guy? I think that's the Punnett Square guy. Okay, because I think we got it wrong last time. I think we did. Yeah, I think we said. I think it's Linnaeus.

I don't know. I think it's Mendel, Gregor Mendel. Anyways, Nicole and I had the same 10th grade science textbook where we learned about this crap. But my point is, when we're talking about these things, we are talking about the commonplace definition and not their actual botanical definition. So fruit both doubles as a botanical scientific term and as a commonplace term. Sure. As in, you eat a fruit salad. You are referring to a salad made of fruits and not of vegetables. But I hate that. I hate that logic that like, would you put tomatoes in a fruit salad?

No, of course not. Would I put cucumbers in a fruit salad? No, of course not. Because a fruit salad is its own dish. It doesn't have to be like classified with all of these other fruits. It's the out, I'm going to agree with you. It's an outlier fruit. It's a little weird.

It's a little confusing. It's not exactly sweet, but I'm still going to eat it and call it a fruit because it is what it is. I care about science. You're just trying, you know what you do, Josh? You come in here and you, you're like, you know, the facts are this, but, but I'm not interested in that today. I tried, you know, with the chicken and the egg thing last week.

I don't care about that. I'm not going to entertain that idea anymore. Let's be real here. Let's call it what it is. It is a fruit. It's not a veg. It acts like a vegetable, but it's still a fruit. If something acts like something else, does that mean that it's not the thing that it is not?

Well, what? Is that not the thing which is not not acting like being correctly? You know what I'm saying though, right? But what I'm saying is the point of language is to communicate ideas clearly. And also the reason we have terms like fruit and vegetable

are to group like things together. Which for a botanist, of which we have both decided we're not because we ain't even know the name of that one scientist that was in our 10th grade textbook. I could be. The limit does not exist.

Also, if any of my friends say they're a botanist, I just, to me, that just means they're growing weed on the porch. Yeah. Which is legal now. Ryan putting the edit note in there to take out the marijuana reference. But anyways, my point is the reason we have categories

and language like fruit and vegetable is to group like things together. So when you say something like a fruit salad you understand that there are strawberries and some like you know honeydew that won't be ripe for another 13 years but i love it in there yeah i do love honeydew yeah uh as opposed to a salad made from vegetables which are likely lettuce tomato onion things like that so i'm saying that the reason we even have those categories are to make communicating easier and when people start know, throwing things out there, everyone had that one kind of a whole devil's advocate friend when you were like 11, 12 years old. That was me. It was like

tomatoes are actually a fruit. And I hate myself. I think the reason I feel so strongly about this is because I hate that 11 year old pretentious child that I was. If I saw my 11-year-old self, I would not hit myself in the face because that's a crime, striking a child. I won't strike a child over an argument. I need to make that very clear here. But I don't like when people kind of bring this so-called fact up because they think it's perfectly accurate. I think the term fruit is essentially, I would call it like an auto homonym. Are you calling a tomato a fruiting vegetable? Yeah, I think that's fair to say. It is a fruiting vegetable where there are non-fruiting vegetables. Maybe. So like a potato is a vegetable. No, it's a tuber. A tuber. But okay, so you're

specifically classifying all these things in their actual relation to the plant of course did you know that did you know that a pumpkin is also considered a fruit i did anything anything with seeds inside of it is a fruit but did you know what did you just say i said anything i was about to explain this i consider them auto homophones i mean it is the same word that sounds exactly the same, but when used in different contexts, they are two entirely different meanings. Like the word set.

The word set has the most definitions of any single word in the English language. Because you can play a set in tennis, you can have a set of dish where you can

roll hard for your set, you can be on set, you can set something down. So it's the same word, but it means many different things. I think the term fruit, when you're using it in the botanical sense

or the gastronomical sense, mean two different things. I don't agree with that. I don't think so. I think the term fruit, when you're using it in the botanical sense or the gastronomical sense, mean two different things. I don't agree with that. I don't think so. I think you can have fruit. I mean, when we're talking about the very scientific definitions of things, broccoli is technically a flower, right?

Yeah. But someone says- You ever had flowering broccolini before? Oh, God. Oh, what are broccolini leaves called? Spigarello? I think so, yeah. I love a nice raw broccolini salad

where I just take the beautiful yellow flowers and I just kind of pepper them on top. Yeah, that's great. I'm not going to say bro... Okay, so tomato has its own unique expression. What do you mean? I think it's one of those things where like people... People can call it a vegetable linguistically.

That's fine. You can call it whatever you want. But at its core, at its true nature, it is a fruit, scientifically speaking. So you can call it a vegetable linguistically, that's fine. You can call it whatever you want. But at its core, at its true nature, it is a fruit, scientifically speaking. How often are we speaking scientifically as opposed to, say, just trying to communicate the idea of what something is going to taste like?

Put it in an actual ratio, because I want to know how useful this definition is. 30% of the time. Maybe. Me, but also I'm a big fat nerd. Also, you're a botanist. Also, I'm a big fat nerd. You grow weed on your porch. I don't. I live with my mom and dad. We have cacti though. Okay, so let's go back to the root of this whole thing. So if you actually look at why the debate actually happens, because like you said, a pumpkin is also, technically speaking, botanically speaking, I hate that if I just say a pumpkin is also a fruit, then you're going to pounce on me because you deserve to.

But a pumpkin is technically, botanically speaking, also a fruit because the seeds are contained within the actual vegetable that I'd call it. God, this is just a complete like a word scramble in my brain with the fruits and vegetables. A little discombobulated. Okay, so the reason this is only a debate, the reason are tomatoes a fruit or vegetable is even a question as opposed to are pumpkins, are cucumbers, are zucchini, are avocado

a fruit or vegetable, is because of the court case Nix versus Hedden. So in 1883, Chester A. Arthur passes an import tax. I can see Ryan frowning right now. In 1883, this is important context, people. Chester A. Arthur, what an exciting president. Didn't you forget he existed? Next time on Jeopardy, 1883,

Chester A. Arthur passes import tax on vegetables, but not fruits. So a fruit importer sues the collector of the Port of New York for back tariff money, arguing that tomato is, botanically speaking, a fruit, not a vegetable, because it's the seed-bearing part of the plant. So this whole debate is only happening because some rich, miserly businessman was deciding to troll the courts, being like, no, actually, tomato is a fruit, not a vegetable. troll the courts being like, no, actually tomato is a fruit, not a vegetable. And then they eventually actually ruled the court, the state court of New York ruled that tomatoes are a

vegetable because of their commonplace definition. You know, there's no one I respect more than a businessman that totally goes into a court system and completely turns it around so he doesn't have to pay tariffs. But he didn't, he lost. Oh. He lost. The court ruled that tomatoes are a vegetable. But this guy was the one to introduce the idea of like, yo, this nerd scientist over here, he says it's a fruit, so? Well, I think that's great that he actually took the ideas of a scientist and brought them to a court of law. It sucks that he lost, but now, look at us.

We care enough about it to talk about it in depth and in detail. And I am genuinely fascinated by this idea of scientific language look at us we care enough about it to talk about it in depth and in detail it's your and i am genuinely fascinated by this idea of scientific language versus kind of commonplace yeah language and especially how it you know actually interacts in a quarter of a lot because so many people when we talk about anything you know even the name of the podcast a hot dog is a sandwich people one please for the love of god stop spamming us that a hot dog is a taco. Stop it. A hot dog is not a taco. Don't send me the cube rule anymore. We know about the cube rule.

I don't like talking about it. It's over. It's done. That stuff, it makes no sense. It gives me hives. We're going to have to do a whole podcast about the cube rule. I don't want to. It gives me hives.

I don't want to. It's disrespectful. I think the cube rule is actually disrespectful to other foods. I agree with that. For international foods. I think we should get into that in a full episode. But what I'm saying is people will send us the dictionary definition of a sandwich and be like, see, it says two slices of bread there.

And you go, okay, well, Subway is the largest restaurant in the history of the world. They've sold more sandwiches than anyone. You're telling me they don't sell sandwiches? And they go, oh, boy. Isn't it crazy that Subway puts fruit on their sandwiches? Yeah, but you got to bring your own grapes. You bring your own grapes because they're like, hey, we put all the vegetables including the tomato on it, but hey,

notice you have that handful of grapes. Can you put it on there? We just got six Subway sandwiches and they're all incorrect. Yeah, yeah, we mess that up. If you're a loving boyfriend, who you love very much, and he loves you, he's a great guy. He's got a great fashion sense. He so fat he's too fashionable for me if he was like nicole i'm bringing you a

bouquet of flowers yeah this dude shows up with cauliflower oh my gosh are you being like okay well that's probably that's a bad example i forgot that you like cauliflower okay what my point is that like when you say broccoli is a flower if if you use the phrase like I'm getting flowers, there is a commonly understood thing for what you mean. You mean roses, you mean hydrangeas, you mean azaleas. Just azaleas. Just azaleas. If you mean azalea banks, you know, you're getting flowers that are to look at.

You understand that there is a reason for flowers existing. They're pretty, they smell nice, they look good in your home, right? But if someone was smart enough to do that and so tongue-in-cheek enough to do that, I would love it. Are you kidding me? It would bring me such joy that someone has such a quick-witted sense of humor

that they would bring me a bouquet of cauliflower and broccoli instead of azalea banks and icky azaleas. I would be so impressed. I'd be like, you know what? You're right. Thank you so much. Let me saute these in garlic butter.

I guess I need to talk to someone normal about this. Yeah, I'm not normal. That's fair. My issue is that I love people that do things incorrectly just to get a reaction. That's what I love. So we need to ask the people. Okay.

So if you're all in on this strict scientific definition thing, right? You don't agree that language is used to group things by useful categories that we can actually use in our real life. No, I do agree with that, but just not for tomatoes or cucumbers or pumpkins or courgettes. Okay. It's pronounced courgette. Courgette? I put a little bit of courgette in my profiteroles. Courgette. That's how they say it on pronounced courgette. Courgette? I put a little bit of courgette in my profiteroles. Courgette.

That's how they say it on Great British Bake Off. I'll put a little bit of courgette in my, in my, my gouger. I thought it was courgette. I'll make gouger with courgette. What's courgette? It's French.

Courgette means zucchini in French, but also Brits say it. Americans don't have it. And they say aubergine too. Aubergine. They are so much better than us. We need to start saying aubergine more. Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, so talking about strict botanical definitions yes right a strawberry it ain't a berry because a berry is defined by having a say i hate what is it a strawberry is uh i forgot what it's actually classified as but berries are classified as anything that has the seed fully encased by protective flesh so strawberry isn't a berry. But you know what is a berry? What is it? A freaking cucumber is a berry. You need to tell me what a strawberry is. A banana is a berry.

I don't know what a strawberry is. What's a strawberry? You just ruined my whole life. But that's what I'm saying. Because a strawberry, like it's red. It tastes pretty similar to raspberries and blackberries and blueberries. And they all go together very well. So it's very useful to be able to call them a berry.

But the problem is that berry also has a strict botanical definition at which strawberry doesn't fall under. Josh, it's not a berry, but it's just named a strawberry. But I'm saying, like, if you get a mixed berry smoothie and they're putting cucumbers in there, you go, oh my God, you're so right. You're so ha ha funny. Just like my boyfriend who brought me the cauliflower bouquet.

Oh my God, Jamba Juice, you're hilarious for putting zucchini in my raspberry, mixed berry, razzmatazz. Ha ha ha, that tastes gross. That'd ruin your day. Are you kidding me? If they could hide cucumber in a mixed berry smoothie, I would be so impressed.

I'm like, here's my serving of green vegetable. I'm sorry, of green, not vegetable. No, no, no, no, it's not vegetable. Zucchini's a vegetable, run that tape back. No, no, no, no, no. I like how I've called a tomato a fruit like nine times you've called different fruits vegetables nine times no no no no and neither of us know what's going on it's just named a strawberry but a strawberry isn't a berry it's

something else but it's okay being grouped up in that sense if i say i want a bowl of berries and strawberries in there that's not gonna bother me but in my head i'll be like that's not a berry but but me saying that tomato is not a fruit so you wouldn't accept if somebody said like strawberry is not a berry that wouldn't bother me but if someone said like a tomato is not a fruit that would bother me why i don't know it just does oh wait am i mixing up the analogy yeah i think you are i did yeah yeah i don't think yeah that makes sense no i completely messed it up yeah again this scramble this is absolutely scrambling my brain because i think it's also because like i think a lot of people associate like sweetness with fruit which is so wrong and so incorrect you know it really is because there's

a lot of vegetables that are also sweet yeah you know i mean like what we would commonplace define as vegetable which i have to add in front of literally everything now because to me you look at like a pumpkin and a sweet potato those serve the same function right pumpkin pie and sweet potato pie are very very similar there's different starch yeah you ever made a butternut squash pie yeah i've never done well canned pumpkin is basically butternut squash oh yeah i remember this there's like this whole like article about like the lies of the pumpkin industry yeah well that's another thing that's very ambiguous because the term pumpkin does not have any strict fda definition of what can be considered pumpkin so like if you go to the store and buy something called kabocha squash

if you go to any japanese restaurant and they say pumpkin ramen what they're talking about is kabocha squash because to them that's the variety of pumpkin that grows in japan to them as just a pumpkin to us we use the Japanese name for it. There are these kind of ambiguations between different pumpkins. Libby's, the canned pumpkin company, was like, we're just going to grow our own variety of thing. If you've ever used what's called a field pumpkin,

the stuff they make jack-o'-lanterns from, to make pumpkin pie, it kind of sucks. It's like stringy in water. Yeah, it's not enjoyable. It's not the worst thing in the world, but there's a reason they canned pumpkins so much better because they're using something called a Dickinson pumpkin, which is very almost identical to a butternut squash. So you're basically making butternut squash pie. My point is sweet potato pie and pumpkin pie,

they're almost identical, right? But you're telling me one of those is a vegetable pie and the other is a fruit pie? That's wild. According to science, yes. But at what point then does science hold language back? A lot apparently. But you're fine with that.

You're not okay with saying that like one of these things is more important than another. Of like actually using language to communicate ideas effectively and group things together appropriately for our daily life should not be hindered by your obscure scientific definitions. That's exactly what I'm saying. Shenanigans! I call shenanigans on you. No, let me tell you. It's about education. And I think that's what we're learning today. The importance of education is just huge. And the fact that I'm learning that a potato pie, I'm sorry, the fact that I'm learning that a potato pie is a white potato pie just blended russets with some cream and sugar yeah you mean a mashed potato pie wait wait hold on

but have you ever what if you did a sweet potato pie recipe but just subbed in russet potatoes I'm learning that you can sub a lot of things for a lot of

things that's true this is very interesting maybe I need to just open myself up to just you know understanding that fruit vegetable is

completely arbitrary they're all just plants yeah I think you know what we should just call them plants why do we

you know what we don't need to specify plants. Why do we? You know what? We don't need to specify anymore. No. Fruit, vegetable, nightshade, your mama. I don't care anymore. Berry. What? I also don't care about your mother.

Josh, just call them. Is that what you said? I don't know. You just got to. Okay. I think we should just call them plants. Just plants. I think fruit bearing vegetable is actually, to make a circular point.

I really like the idea of a fruit bearing vegetable. Yeah. I think fruit bearing vegetable is actually, to make a circular point, I really like the idea of a fruit bearing vegetable. Yeah. I think that's a good- It's the most precise form I can think of. I think that's a perfect middle ground where we can still acknowledge the scientific value of calling it a fruit, but also give it the linguistic accuracy of calling it a vegetable. Yeah. But I understand that would be very confusing for people.

I like how we've gone to two opposite ends of the spectrum. On one hand, tomato is a fruit-bearing vegetable, and that is how it must be classified. A term that is purely oxymoronic, because we decided that fruits and vegetables are two sides of the coin. They're not oxymorons. I know they're not. You're the one who made up the point that it's not a fruit, it's a blink.

I said cardigan, you said vegetable. That's your fault, fam. That's your issue. We have one side of the spectrum of calling it a fruit-bearing vegetable. Basically a paradox, and I'm sticking by that. And the other side, erasing all those terms and just calling them plants, which I like. I like it too, but I think instead of completely erasing it, I think we should acknowledge both of them and respect them. Yeah. Well, one thing that I always got tripped up on when I was it too, but I think instead of completely erasing it, I think we should acknowledge both of them and respect them.

Yeah. Well, one thing that I always got tripped up on when I was a kid, and again, I was that little a-hole kid that would fight with my teachers. Still are. And I'd like to... That's his whole podcast. It's that little a-hole kid. Yeah, yeah.

It's all of the thoughts you had as a seventh grader where you're like, eh, ketchup is a smoothie. And it's just us with the addition of the age that we have and the experience that we had in the food industry, just, like, taking that times, like, to the nth degree. Yeah. The only difference is now we have microphones in front of us and apparently thousands of people that listen to us as Seventh Gators

going, actually, did you know that ketchup is a smoothie? Gotcha! I'm so smart. My parents don't give me enough attention. That's literally this whole podcast. That's this whole podcast. It's just two a-hole children just looking at you like actually no actually no actually applesauce and cheetos is basically like a latke yeah it's no it's all it's all complete shenanigans what did you just say applesauce and cheetos that was what had someone

brought up the idea of dipping cheetos in applesauce and i was like well i did a lot because in applesauce yeah but no it's all just, I did a lot because of applesauce. Yeah. But no, it's all just, you know, it's kind of making word scrambles in our brains trying to figure this out. But the funny thing about this is it has actually gone through the court system. Yeah. And like literally they brought up

the dictionary definition of what a fruit is in the courts and then tried to kind of parse out this idea of common meaning, which is why I like this idea of using pure instinct on what sounds right to me. So this idea that, you know, is a tomato, a fruit or a vegetable? I like to use the test of what I put this in a fruit salad or what I put this in a vegetable salad, you know, in a savory salad, sweet salad, because I understand the sweet thing doesn't always add up like vegetables are savory, fruits are sweet. That doesn't always add up

because like cucumbers aren't, no, cucumbers are vegetables. Because like, cucumbers are fruit. Like I consider, what? Cucumbers are fruit. Cucumbers are vegetables. Cucumbers are fruit.

I need to keep my story straight. Cucumbers are vegetables. Josh, you know that cucumbers are fruit. Cucumbers are fruit-bearing vegetable. Cucumbers are plant. It's a plant. We can agree on that.

Okay, it's a plant. What I'm saying is like we, you know, I want to shorthand to fruits equal sweet, vegetables equal savory. But, you know, there are- No, I think that's dumb. I think that's what you do.

There are sweet vegetables, like sweet potatoes are a good example. Like this is a vegetable that is sweet. So you can't do that. I think that's a cop out. How so? I just think categorizing it by like your flavor profile is inaccurate. But doesn't it give you like what should kind of be grouped together no because miles kingston said knowledge is knowing that

a tomato is a fruit wisdom is putting it is not putting it in a fruit salad and i think that that is the point of this whole that's good that's way better than the quote that i was going to pull out what were you gonna say okay so apparently we've both written down quotes what i was gonna say is using this idea of commonplace instinctual definition of like i know what a vegetable is based on how i use it there's a famous supreme court case nicole 1964 jacobellas versus ohio in which this is quoted in a lot of popular culture and media on the definition of what is and isn't pornography in supreme court justice what's his name?

Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart said, I shall not today attempt to further define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within the shorthand description pornography, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so, but I know it when I see it. And I understand.

That was actually kind of, that was widely praised as being like, you know, a kind of very humanizing moment for the Supreme Court. A lot of people have problems with it. They say it's this kind of, that was widely praised as being like, you know, a kind of very humanizing moment for the Supreme Court. A lot of people have problems with it. They say it's this kind of, you know, a catch-all decision that could be used very harmfully in other cases. But when it's something like, what's a fruit and vegetable?

To me, I know a vegetable when I see it. I know a fruit when I see it. Ask me anything. I'll tell you if it's a fruit or vegetable. Uh, kale. Vegetable. See? It's easy, Nicole.

Gooseberry. Gooseberries are an actual berry, I believe. Gooseberries are one of my favorite. Whenever I would go to the Brentwood Farmer's Market, I would go get a whole fresh carton of gooseberries just to walk around and munch on gooseberries all day. Anytime I would go to a bat mitzvah, they had a whole freaking planter of them. I grew up eating gooseberries at bar mitzvahs too. Yeah, and I would just spoon them on my plate

like it was my job. Let me ask, tortilla, corn. Corn is, here's a, okay. No, this brings me to another point. This brings me to another point. What I was talking about earlier, being an a-hole kid at school, and then we decided that we're a-hole kids

and we got sidetracked because we've decided that we both have the ADD and the fact that there's not. Undiagnosed. Undiagnosed ADD, but, you know, that's one of those, I know it when I see it. Bamboo. Bamboo a tree, bro.

Bamboo ain't no fruit or vegetable. You out there eating trees, Ryan? Bamboo is a tree. Is it a vegetable? If you tell me right now, bamboo's a vegetable. Well, you can eat bamboo root or bamboo shoots. Bamboo root, bamboo shoot. Bamboo root, bamboo shoot. shoot okay let's get a basket you

know i had to blast you what i was saying was the way that we grew up understanding food is in within the food pyramid right we all remember that oh yeah so i remember in school in like third grade or something seeing the food pyramid and saying you know you eat this many fruits what is it two to three and then you eat three to five to. I thought it was five to six servings. No, that's definitely, you're supposed to eat less fruit. And I remember because fruit has more sugar and so you're supposed to eat more vegetables. But there was a picture of the tomato in like the vegetable category. And then our teacher was like, well, did you know that tomatoes are actually a fruit? They're just a low sugar fruit, which is why they're in the

vegetable area. Yeah. But that's what I'm saying, that the reason we are even a fruit they're just a low sugar fruit which is why they're in the vegetable area yeah but that's what i'm saying that the reason we are even discussing fruit and vegetable in dichotomous terms is because like we need to know what they do for us you know what i'm saying so if something is low sugar enough of a fruit put it in the vegetable area i will let's do this nicole let's have a like fruit vegetable draft i'm drafting vegetables. I want tomato on my team. You can take sweet potato into the fruit. I'm fine calling sweet potato

a fruit. I don't want to do that. Take it. I don't want sweet potato A sweet potato isn't a fruit. It's a vegetable. It's a sweet. Put it in pie.

It's the same as pumpkin. You make pumpkin pie, you make sweet potato pie. It's the same. You're being silly. You're not listening to me. You're just speaking off the dome like a rapper.

You have to, see, let me tell you, I've really gotten into rap battles recently and the most important thing, listen to me, you're just speaking off the dome like a rapper. You have to, see, let me tell you, I've really gotten into rap battles recently. And the most important thing, listen to me, in being a rap battle. Go ahead. No, please explain rap battle culture to me, Nicole. Is knowing your opponent and listening to what your opponent says so you can say what they said, but in a diss. This is all this is, Josh. This is is just an epic rap battle but there's no rhyming and we have no flow whatsoever that's true we're both incredibly unflowed i have a lot of flow i'm i like rap music but okay let me let me let me let me let me tell you this is a red bell pepper

a vegetable yes is it really wait because it's is it sweet is it not sweet what do you do i don't know i wanted to say i want to say that i want to say the red bell pepper is obviously a vegetable because i use it in vaginas it's not but at the same time i know botanically speaking it's a fruit because it has the seeds inside of it and all that but also like red bell peppers are incredibly sweet actually though in the seeds inside of it and all that. But also like red bell peppers are incredibly sweet. There you go. Actually, though, in the dictionary definition of vegetable, they use the term herbaceous very liberally. In the sense of you understand the taste of a fruit, right?

It's kind of, it's sweet. You understand the taste of a berry. It kind of has this like deep, dark, red sort of flavor. And, you know, there's citric acid in it and all that. And I think there is something, I use the term vegetal a lot to describe the taste of flavor. And there's citric acid in it and all that. And I think there is something, I use the term vegetal a lot to describe the taste of something. So you understand that red bell pepper,

although it is obviously sweet, it has a much more vegetal taste than something like an apple. So to me that very much separates them into two different things. But an apple has the same sweetness as say a plum, as a grape, as things like that, that are botanically very very

different in their composition but they are grouped together because of commonalities yeah but just because things are common doesn't mean they need to be under the same umbrella because where do you draw the commonality that's why we have umbrellas is to describe common terms but but when does who determines the umbrellas who's holding the umbrella me is it rihanna is it jay-z i always forget that was. Is it Rihanna? I hold the umbrella. Is it Jay-Z? I always forget that was like the first Rihanna song that we ever heard. No, it was Ponda Replay.

Oh, that came before Umbrella? Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. You think she got a feature with Jay-Z for her first song? I am obviously out of my depth here. Bro, get out of here. I am obviously out of my depth and I would like to walk back ever talking about Rihanna's umbrella.

On the JB basketball team, we would listen to Umbrella and play basketball. That's my only relation to it. Would you consider cherry to be a berry? You know what's upsetting to me? My girlfriend. So I, cherries are, no, no, no. I love your girlfriend. No, no, no, I love her too.

My favorite fruit in the world are cherries. I will, during cherry season, I will just sit down to like a three pound bowl of cherries. I love Rainier. I love Bing. I love Dark Sweet Red from Michigan. I love all forms

of fresh cherry. And Julia had never eaten a fresh cherry before. That's really cute. It is really cute. And I was so excited. I was so excited to just be like,

oh my God, let me introduce you to my single favorite fruit of all time. It is a flavor that is uncomparable from literally anything. And she eats it

and just goes, tastes like a grape. And I'm like, what do you mean? And then I ate a cherry and thought about grapes. And I was like, damn, this tastes like a grape. No, it doesn't. Cherries are very distinct. They have a certain tartness.

I think they do too. And there's a depth of flavor to the cherries. It's the best fruit of all time. I just found something out. What's that? Do you know what a droop is? Is a strawberry a droop? No. What's a droop is is it a strawberry a droop no what's a cherry and an apricot and uh let me see a nectarine a peach and a cherry are considered droops also

known as stone fruit so for season is my favorite season let's be real nectarines are my favorite fruit when okay josh what's your favorite fruit okay i would say cherries but i already said that so i'm gonna say dappled dandy pluots. Once I ate a dozen of them, and then I almost pooed. I mean, I did poo, but I almost did it when I shouldn't have. In your pantsies. Yes. Yeah, I love nectarines.

I think they're like the perfect balance of sweet, tart, citric acid-y. I think it's fantastic. The world of fruit is great. Don't you just love when you're just like chomping down on a pumpkin? Stop it. Yeah, sometimes. Have you ever had a deliciously temp down on a pumpkin stop it yeah sometimes have you ever had a deliciously tempura piece of pumpkin i have what okay what are there any fruits that exist

that you can't eat raw i'm trying to think about just these kind of commonalities yeah what like what fruits can you not eat i know there's a What would you consider fruits that you can't eat raw? Because you obviously, I mean, you can eat anything raw if you try hard enough. No, but you can get poisoned. But something like a pumpkin versus an apple, right? Oh, do you mean like poisonous? Not even poisonous, but just in terms of what is commonly kind of enjoyed. Because like you said, you'd snack on cherries, you'd snack on nectarines.

What's a rhubarb? Rhubarb is, okay okay so rhubarb is actually another interesting thing where it's almost exclusively paired with fruits and things like people only know rhubarb by strawberry rhubarb pie but rhubarb if you look at it it's just a stock it's just celery it looks exactly like celery and it's very very sour it's almost not sweet at all yeah and i've had it in savory dishes. Shout out to Chad Valencia at Lhasa for making a rhubarb sinagong, one of the coolest things I've ever tasted. But that's another thing that people associate with being a fruit, but I would call rhubarb a vegetable. I don't know what a, what is it, what is a rhubarb actually? So a rhubarb,

technically speaking, is a stalk, so it would be a vegetable. Okay. But people bring that up in the tomato conversation. So am I just a hypocrite? maybe, but I'm also a hypocrite because I'm putting it under the umbrella of fruit because that's what I did, that's what I did naturally you see what the issue is Josh? we're all just kind of prejudiced in our own ways in what we believe I think we just need to go back to the original conversation

of calling it a plant we just need to call it a plant there is no such thing as a fruit or vegetable no, a berry is a? plant pumpkin is a plant celery plant nectarine plant pool plant fruits and vegetables don't exist people a tomato is a plant tomato is neither a fruit nor a vegetable tomato is simply a plant it is not a living sentient being that we slaughtered. It is not meat. It is not cheese. All we know for sure is that tomato is a plant. It's a plant. And that's kind of beautiful to me. This is a great conversation. This is a great conversation. I think we came to a nice civil

meeting of the minds and I'm really glad we did it. And I'm glad that we both came to agree that science doesn't matter and is mostly fake. Yeah, that's the important part. that science doesn't matter and is mostly fake. Yeah, that's the important part. All right, Nicole, we've heard what you and I have to say. Now it's time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling out there in the Twitterverse. It's time for a segment we call... Opinions are like casseroles.

Opinions are like casseroles. Everyone, everyone's got one and they smell like onions. Opinions are like casseroles. You don't one and they smell like onions opinions are like casseroles you don't want to have hair in them all right at ryan underscore raymond white bread original flavor potato chips and ketchup make for an amazing sandwich yeah i eaten I eaten a potato chip and ketchup sandwich. I don't like it. My big thing, life's too short for original flavor potato chips. I believe that strongly. I believe that strongly. If you're getting a potato chip,

to me, it has to be like the craziest flavor. Although I have straight up ruined small gatherings with getting bad potato chip flavors. Listen, the Sichuan chicken from Lay's was not good. Listen, listen dude there is nothing better than the original taste and snap and flavor of a lays chip you know it you know it i sometimes it's nice when in the mythical kitchen especially we are always eating just the craziest most flavorful foods to our own detriment often amen i was talking about the other day how it's we eat so much of our content for nutrition, for our bodies.

It's horrific. But the problem is our content mostly isn't vegetables. No vegetables. No vegetables at all. And so sometimes like I'll just eat a bite of cabbage and be like, God, that's good. I haven't had a vegetable at work in maybe like three days. It's been years. We literally, we got wing stop for lunch today and I was like, dang, they don't even have any vegetables

on the menu. And I was like, Trevor, we got any vegetables in the fridge? And Trevor's like, ah, there's a quarter head of lettuce. I was,

I thought they were supposed to give you like sticks. Yeah. Them sticks. Where was our veggie sticks? Where were my sticks? Where are my veggie sticks, Wingstop?

Jake, where are my sticks? Anyways, to me, this sounds like it's a food that you eat that I wouldn't particularly enjoy. This is a struggle meal.

It's a struggle meal, which I eat often and I understand. Hard pass. No, thank you. I've been eating so many peanut butter sandwiches out of just kind of like apathy at home. That sucks. It's like I need some. But I mean, I enjoy them thoroughly. Isn't apathy negative?

Yeah, but I mean, like, it's kind of, I don't have the wherewithal to cook anything better for myself. I'm tired at the end of the day. I need food inside my body. with all to cook anything better for myself. I'm tired at the end of the day. I need food inside my body. If you could pick three bags of chips to take to a party, what three bags of chips would you take?

This actually says a lot about you as a person. It really does. Because you can't be too aggressive. I've learned that. Yeah, I ate a Szechuan chicken chip. Dude, it was so bad. I looked at the ingredients list, and they had something that was just like brown pan meat flavor. It was like one of the extracts in it.

And I tasted it, and it tastes like one of the extracts in it and i taste it and taste like burnt chicken bones oh no you ever have like a stock that like they over roasted the bones and you're like this is just acrid yes that's what these chips taste like it was horrific but that said i still refuse to buy plain chips to bring okay unless there's i know there's gonna be salsa and guac then i'll get you know uh santita's brand corn chips because they're so good but i will bring a barbecue kettle chips. Kettle brand chips are my favorite chips. They're one of the brands that I look at

and just like gush over. For sure. Kettle brand barbecue, I will bring a spicy sweet chili Doritos and then I will bring something kind of inoffensive, probably from the kettle brand. So something like, you know, they're like dill pickle flavor. That's inoffensive to you? That is my level of inoffensive, probably from the kettle brand. So something like, you know, they're like dill pickle flavor.

That's inoffensive to you? That is my level of inoffensiveness. That is my plane. When I'm acting on that, plane is either pepperoncini or dill pickle. Oh my gosh. That's so funny to me. I take risks.

That's crazy. So my top three would be kettle, salt and pepper, but the Ridges one. I hate that they have the Costco ones. Oh my gosh. I don't like them. Okay, ugly. I'm'm trying i'm doing the best with what i have um sour cream and cheddar ruffles i guess i just like ridges and limon chips limon lays the limon lays at fire limon i like those zachary lee

says what's the best kind of peanut butter and why is the Jif extra crunchy? My favorite peanut butter is Laura Scudder's original because I was raised in a fancy house. And that's that. The funny thing about Laura Scudder's is they came before all the natural peanut butter brands because now you get a whole food. I mean, you can go to Ralph's or any normal grocery store. For sure. And half of them are like Justin's, you know, unstirred like chunky nut butters.

I'm not a big Justin's fan either. But there's a lot of like natural peanut butter options. Back in the day, it was either like Peter Pan, Jif, Skippy, Goobers, like all these very child-centric brands. And there was one like natural peanut butter and that was Laura Scudder's. So she is the OG of making just like real unprocessed peanut butter. And I have respect for it. That said, I do not enjoy the taste.

I love, I was raised on it. That's like my favorite. It's like almost like crunchy, smooth peanut butter. You know what I mean? It's right in the middle. I feel that. I love it. That said, my favorite thing is Skippy Naturals.

Because it's, I know that the term natural means literally nothing. There's nothing. There's actually a big movement to ban the word natural in packaged foods and I think I would support that because it misleads consumers. 70% of consumers think that the word natural means a product is healthier

although there's no actual benefit to having the word on there other than lying to people. That said, it makes me feel better when I spend the extra 30 cents to get something that says natural and it tastes a little bit more organic.

Just a little. Just enough. I use Skippy Naturals and I am tastes a little bit more organic. Just a little. Just enough. I use Skippy Naturals and I am typically a creamy peanut butter fan. I will buy three creamy peanut butter jars to every crunchy peanut butter jar. That is how I space it out. I say that I'm a crunchy girl,

but in reality I'm a smooth girl. You know what I mean? I like to gum it down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. At Chef Kyle Hash, not mine, but an interesting take. Oh, okay, this is a take for a friend. He's a chef.

This is the biggest stretch I have ever heard. Ketchup is a liquid and 20% sugar. That makes it a soda. No, it doesn't. What do you think words mean? No, it doesn't. Soda literally comes from like- Carbonation?

Carbonation. Like that is the definition of a soda. And there is no carbonation in this. And I've actually seen it. This is a viral tweet. And someone was obviously... The British word... We talked about why British people are better than us earlier.

The British term is taking the piss. And that's my favorite. This person's taking the piss. 20% sugar makes a soda? No. If anything... It's lemonade. Yeah, it's Gatorade.

No, it's lemonade. It's a sport drink. There's no salt. Oh, yeah, there is. There is salt. There's salt in it. Yeah. It's a sport drink.

Okay. Ketchup is Gatorade. Ketchup is Gatorade. No, it's lemonade. It's a sport drink. There's no salt. Oh, yeah, there is. There's salt. There's salt in it. Yeah. It's a sport drink. Okay. Ketchup is Gatorade. Ketchup is Gatorade. You're welcome. I hate that we just landed on that. And dad is smond. I don't like sticks in my corn dogs. Well, what do you like, sir?

I like some boneless. You like boneless corn dogs? I like boneless corn dogs. So you like hot dogs? No, I agree with that. This is stupid. Stick shouldn't be there. It's hot.

But like, you're supposed to eat it like a normal hot dog. Josh, it's hot when you touch it. You burn your fingies. You should, okay, what we need then are like corn cob holders, but we need corn dog holders, where they're little pincers that you can put in the ends, but they don't go all the way through it. And so then you can eat all the batter off your corn dog

and then throw the hot dog away. Why would you throw the hot dog away? I just want the batter. The point is... Nicole, I watched you just eat a ton of plain corn dog batter when we were recipe testing for the Bisquick thing. That's because it was good. It was good.

It was better without the hot dog. You put damn crab in there like some sort of corn dog doctor. It was great. I have a corn dog savant. I hate that the things that I am actually good at cooking are all like, you know, it's carny food. Yes, garbage food. I'm good at making carny food.

Juno Virtue says, it's just called spaghetti, not spaghetti bolognese. They spelled it like ball in knees like oh so this person is saying like spaghetti bolognese shouldn't be called spaghetti bolognese you should be just called spaghetti nah bruv it's called spag bol spag bol it's called spag bol bruv you like spag bol get your stories tried i love spag bol my mom makes the best spag bol uh i don't even know why does this person have an issue with bolognese? I think it's just called spaghetti in their house. It's called spaghetti. We don't make bolognese.

We make gravy on Sunday. We make Sunday gravy. We're not making Sunday gravy. Yeah, you know. Giovanni comes over and Tony comes over. Mario. Antonio comes over. Tony Jr. comes over.

At Shanana Gandolf. Great name. Mozzarella sticks are always better dipped in chunky salsa. Hey now. That's good. Here's the thing, though. I love that. When you dip mozzarella sticks in marinara sauce, do you prefer the marinara to be warm or cold?

Oh, well, are my sticks hot? Yeah, your sticks is hot. If my sticks are hot, my sauce is cold. Why did you laugh at that? It sounded like a life lesson. If my sticks are hot, my sauce is cold. You sound like an old 1950s woman smoking a cigarette. Listen, tuts.

My sticks is hot. So you're inhaling an unfiltered cigarette. My sauce is cold. You know what that means, don't you? You want me to make you a man? Oh my gosh. Yes, that's pretty much who I am on the inside. But yeah, if my sticks are hot Oh my gosh. Yes. That's pretty much who I am on the inside.

But yeah, if I eat my sticks hot and my sauce cold. That sounds good. It's just marinara with some extra acid and spice to it. I'm into it.

I prefer, I think I truly prefer salsa to marinara for dipping things. So I'm on your team. Let's see what's next. Eric Crane 20 says, chicken is a more versatile

meat than steak brussels sprouts should never be on a food plate ever they got a twofer they think you just insert two opinions into one casserole so chicken is more versatile meat than steak i think they're both versatile you're just lazy and brussels sprouts should never be on a food plate ever brussels sprouts are delicious i understand that they kind of smell like farts but it's okay there's nothing wrong with eating food that smells like farts. Pork farts. Last night I thought about just tweeting at one in the morning, pork farts.

But instead, Trevor thinks I should just tweet pork farts. Because we were talking about I had a 14-pound pork roast that I had been procrastinating cooking. And anyways, the only thing I've eaten over the last week is just 14 pounds of pork. And so pork farts naturally came up for no relevant reason. Anyways, when this person says chicken is a more versatile meat than steak, my problem is steak's not a meat. He talks about chicken, chicken's a whole animal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cow's a whole animal. I think he's saying chicken breast. They are saying chicken breast. Are you sure? I'm just going to assume. Maybe. Is chicken breast more versatile than steak? Well, you can eat steak raw. You can eat,

yeah, actually. Grind steak. I You can eat, yeah, actually. Grind steak. I know what they're saying, though. More often than not, like, I'm eating chicken. I eat chicken four or five times more than I eat beef. I eat it, like, half and half. Like, I eat a lot of meat. We've established all I eat now is pork,

and I'm fine with it. Yesterday, when we had all those ribs, I was, like, dreading having to take those home and eat them because I've just gone through 14 pounds of pig meat. No, no, I got Chris some good old steaks. I'm like an ogre. I hooked home and eat them because I've just gone through 14 pounds of pig meat. No, no, I got Chris some good old pig ribs. I'm like an ogre. I hooked him off that. I just ate seven

kilos of pig meat. Ew. Disgusting. And on that note, thank you for listening to A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. We got new episodes for you every Wednesday. If you want to be featured on Opinions Are Like Casseroles, you can hit us up on Twitter at mythicalchef or nherizade with the hashtag opinion casserole.

And for more Mythical Kitchen, check us out on YouTube. We launch new videos every week. And of course, if you want to share pics of your dishes, hit us up on Instagram at Mythical Kitchen. See you next time. Tomatoes are porn. Tomatoes are porn? What? Okay! You guys remember Lil Jon? Yeah, yeah.