A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - Is Chocolate Chip Objectively the Best Cookie?

Episode Date: September 9, 2020

A perfect blend of flour, eggs, and sugar peppered with molten morsels of chocolatey goodness--- BUT, are chocolate chip cookies the greatest cookie flavor of all time? To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. A perfect blend of flour, eggs, and sugar peppered with molten morsels of chocolatey goodness. Who hasn't enjoyed their fair share of chocolate chip cookies? But, is it the greatest cookie flavor of all time? This is a hot dog as a sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense.

A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, the show where we break down the world's biggest food debates. I'm your host, Josh Scherer. I'm your host, Nicole Hendizadeh. And today we are joined by our baking buddy and fellow mythical kitchenier, Trevor Everts. Hi, guys. It's so good to be here.

I'm so glad you're here. Trevor, you're glowing. Yeah. Yeah, i can't stop smiling well trevor one of the reasons we wanted to have you here is because uh well most of the time we record this we just have to like lock you outside because we need it quiet and sometimes we can hear you faintly scratching at the walls and so we didn't want that to happen today but two i love when people get into arguments where they have actual skin in the game right like real experts and you are a baker you have a literal degree in baking, do you not?

I do. I do have a degree in baking. Can you produce your diploma? Not at this point in time, no. Yeah, you don't have to do it right now. We'll do it later. We'll check it. I've never particularly lied on a job application, but I have stretched truths.

Yeah, sure. Who hasn't? Anyways, the point is, I'm a cookie fan, but I'm not like a huge cookie baker. I bake cookies. I bake cookies and drop them off at Trevor's house house once early in quarantine that's so nice of you where are my cookies dog uh live closer to me i know i'm sorry i live all the way in century city it's hard i understand the commute isn't when we were talking about does pineapple belong on pizza i made the claim that if an italian man or woman who was particularly passionate about the idea

yelled at me that pineapple does not belong on a pizza i would agree with them i do not believe that chocolate chip cookies are the best cookie flavor they fall outside of my top five they're not a thing yeah oh shocked faces around no no no oh big claim controversy strikes that's crazy it's for sure top three it's not my number one though this is what i need i need people who are passionate about the idea of baking to yell at me like that fictional Italian man or woman. I think since Trevor's our guest, I think I want to know what his favorite cookie is. Okay. Well, my favorite cookie of all time is chocolate chip.

Okay. And here's my opinion on it. I believe that in a general food scope, there are objectively good flavors and objectively bad flavors. Like you don't see people just taking spoonfuls of malic acid, right? Right. And I think that when it comes to cookies, objectively chocolate chip is a top three cookie of all time. I think that you can't name three cookies that are better than chocolate chip

and have a genuine argument for that. Now where it falls in the top three, that's where I give leeway and say, okay, if you want it to be number three or number two, I get that. You can make an argument for that. There's subjectivity to that. Now where it falls in the top three, that's where I give leeway and say, okay, if you want it to be number three or number two, I get that. You can make an argument for that. There's subjectivity to that. But for me, chocolate chip is number one. I like this idea of objectivity in food and kind of exploring that. Yeah, me too. That's something that like we've talked about before, like whether or not certain flavors actually work. Like the pineapple and pizza thing is a perfect example where people are talking about sweet and savory and all that, but it's like, yo, would you put kiwi on a pizza would you put

raspberries are you saying that any sweet and acidic thing works like nah that clashes yeah you know but also man i there are other objectively good cookie combinations like my favorite cookie is a mal is a ginger molasses cookie i have burnt my taste buds off and this is there's a lot of it there are people that, you know, they still smoke cigarettes out there and they do bad things to their palates, you know? So there's people that they need that big spice punch. They need to go chase that wave. They need to find their point break. Sorry, I don't know why I brought up point break. And for me, like the molasses ginger cookie is the perfect cookie because you get all

that chewiness and all that sweetness that's offset by a huge punch of spice. For me, chocolate chip cookies, they are comforting, sure, but they are cloying and one-dimensional. Cloying? Cloying, I say. You mean to tell me molasses isn't cloying? No, molasses is deep and dark and funky. And cloying. Yeah, it cloys a little bit.

Is that like a one out of four on the cloy scale? Okay, I agree with you, Trevor, that chocolate chip is top three. I don't think it's top one. Also, molasses, ginger molasses, I don't even think about that, man. That stuff is like in left field. That's like top eight for me. That's what I beg for, Trevor. Were they good?

You never gave me. They were flat. They were too flat. I don't know what happened. Well, I reheated some of the chocolate chip ones in the microwave. Actually, Eitan, my roommate, he ate a lot of them. That's good. Like I would go,

I kind of left them in the kitchen. I bake for the people. I don't need Trevor's elitist palate over here. I'm baking for the Eitans of the world. But Nicole, you were saying. Oh, yeah. My favorite cookie is a good old fashioned snickerdoodle.

Yes. You know, it's just, okay, texturally perfect. You want to know why? For people that don't know, snickerdoodle cookies are typically made with cream of tartar in place of baking soda or baking powder. Trevor, can you confirm? I can confirm, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Really? Yeah. That's the thing I didn't know. Maybe I'm just ignorant. They're made with cream of tartar, which gives us this beautiful chew and beautiful texture and beautiful rise. And then also the cinnamon sugar is so simple and so good. And the way that it kind of candies on the outside, it's just incomparable to any other cookie I've ever had. So both of you can suck it.

I will not suck it. I will not suck it. I feel like the snickerdoodle is just a lightweight equivalent. You and I are on the same. You and I, I was going to say a lightweight equivalent of my favorite cookie. They both got spice. They both got warm spice. They both don't have that contrast of the melting chocolate because I love the texture of cookies.

Cookies are my favorite confection, you know? But like you said, Snickerdoodle is your favorite. There's no melted chocolate in that. There doesn't need to be chocolate in it. I agree. But I think a cookie with chocolate, the way Trevor defines it, is definitely top three. I don't know what my last cookie would be, though. Truly. Sprinkles? No. Sugar. Sugar cookies. Oh my god. Sometimes. defines it is definitely top three i don't know what my what my last cookie would be though truly sprinkles no sugar sugar cookies sometimes okay so i love sugar cookies because i make them from

scratch and sometimes i bring them to my friends but my friends are really health conscious so like you know i could i like cut out really cute shapes for like holidays like for valentine's day i made like a bunch of them with like cute little sayings, like dump him and like, whatever, like, you know, the conversation hurts. And then. They're so dismissive. They're not like,

I love you. Just like dump him girl. No, they were, they were like bitchy ones. And I do that on purpose, but like, I try to do them for like holidays.

Like I make like Christmas tree ones. I make like star ones and nobody likes my sugar cookies and they're yummy sugar cookies. They're just so health conscious about it. It makes me sad, but I think sugar cookies. And they're yummy sugar cookies. They're just so health conscious about it. It makes me sad. But I think sugar cookies are top three. Yeah. So it's in no particular order except my order. Snickerdoodle, chocolate chip, sugar.

My order is chocolate chip, snickerdoodle, sugar. That's my top three. High five. High five. It's nice. I don't want to say mine anymore. I go chewy ginger molasses cookie number one. I go alfajores number two.

I love it. We were talking about alfajores in Argentina. I just talked about it like 15 seconds ago. Really? I was sitting here and I'm like, I want to make Argentinian style dessert. Yeah. Alfajores. I love alfajores.

They have them at, they're like a sandwich cookie. They're kind of like half shortbread. There's typically like some dulce de leche in between. I love Alfa Hortus they have them they're like a sandwich cookie they're kind of like half shortbread there's typically like some dulce de leche in between I love sandwich cookies I love oatmeal raisin cream pies

I love taking that and sandwiching well don't laugh at cream pie don't laugh family show I'm laughing at oatmeal raisin you grandpa

oatmeal raisin in your top three what if oatmeal raisin is in your top three I immediately don't trust your cookie opinion. Here's where I'm coming

from. I like the chewy. You guys know I have soft teeth. Shout out to Birdseye Dentistry in Hollywood. I'm hoping that you give me. I was there getting a tooth fixed because it broke eating a Whopper. I was slopping on a Whopper. He thought there was a bone in his Whopper.

It was a tooth. I just shattered a tooth on a Whopper. Who knows slumping on the whopper. He thought there was a bone in his whopper. It was a tooth. I just shattered a tooth on a whopper. Who knows? But anyways, cookies, the chewiness of cookies is the most chewy, pleasant sensation that I can experience as a soft-toothed man. So that's what I'm after. I don't need no towel. Oh, God, no. Trevor literally, we're in the kitchen making some caramel stuff, and he offered me a little nub

of caramel, and I stepped back like he had a weapon. I was like, no! Can't do it! That's money out of my pocket every time it happens it's just like a thousand dollars anyways i'm hoping that by giving bird's eye dentistry that's bird's eye dentistry on vine in hollywood i can get some sort of free dental care again this podcast is not brought to you by bird's eye dentistry hopefully one day it will be i'm trading clout for crowns but anyways i love that chewy texture of cookies me, that is like the utility of a cookie over other pastries, right? Cake, you get that sumptuous tenderness.

Pie, you get, you know, the flaky, buttery contrasted with the filling. For me, cookies should be pure chew and deliciousness. And the chocolate chip for me is just something that takes away from that. Like my biggest pet peeve. I don't dislike chocolate chip cookies. I'm not a monster here, okay? Okay. Like I'm not saying that they're bad

but when you get a cookie that has so many chocolate chips in it that you physically don't get the chew of the actual cookie dough to me that is just like mind blowing like you took the one utility of the cookie and you ruined it by putting these just store bought chocolate chips in there

there's a problem I think that I could bring you a cookie that would change your mind because I want my mind to be changed. I think you can too, Trevor. It's like, here's the thing about chocolate chip cookies for me. Like a lot of the cookies that you've named, like a molasses cookie for me, there's a certain like flavor ceiling that it has. Like it can only get so good, but chocolate chip cookies for me, there are so many levels that you can go to to increase how good they are and the way that you make them and when i worked at dominique ansel bakery i made

chocolate name dropping out here because i'm saying i think that if i brought you a cookie from there it would blow your mind like it's the best chocolate chip cookie it's the best chocolate chip cookie that i've ever had and it is so perfectly chewy and yet like a little bit of crisp on the outside you get them just nice and golden brown it's so chewy it's so good the chocolate chips we use like thin wafer chips so it's not like chunky chips we use thin wafer chips so it doesn't feel like you're getting that like you're not biting into a big chunk of chocolate but it just molds with the cookie it's really good i feel like this kind of brings us back to the fries onion rings debate kind of where we talked about how i prefer fries because there is a higher there is a higher floor on french fries because of onion rings but onion

rings give you more of an opportunity to actually let craft kind of shine through it sure because there's so many more steps to it i feel like that's probably the thing with chocolate chips with chocolate chip cookies right because you have like so many more kind of steps in there you're playing with the ratios you're playing with the kind of chocolate chips with chocolate chip cookies right because you have like so many more kind of steps in there you're playing with the ratios you're playing with the kind of chocolate sure and chocolate itself is it has such a wide range of like good versus crappy chocolate yeah i'm also the person that during a quarantine video i mashed breadcrumbs together with what were keto chocolate chips that's all i could find at the grocery store at the time were these like gross oil keto chips and mashed together and called it a cookie so that's why i do appreciate trevor's perspective as an expert because i'm

a garbage person yeah and to follow up on what trevor was saying have you ever had a really you know like tate's bakery those really thin wafery yeah but they crispy though but they're delicious that's the thing about chocolate chip cookies like chocolate chip cookies can take on any shape form that you want you can have have a really soft, chewy one. You can have a really crispy, snappy, cookie-like one. There's so many different iterations of a chocolate chip cookie that are delicious. But I can't really say that about our cookies. Like, snickerdoodle is a snickerdoodle. Bro, ginger snaps?

Come on, bro. Have you ever seen the movie Ginger Snaps? No, it's about... Can you describe the plot over the next 20 minutes? Yeah. It's this movie where itaps? No, it's about... Oh my God, it's about... Can you describe the plot over the next 20 minutes? Yeah. It's this movie where it's two sisters and one of them gets bitten by a werewolf,

I think? And then her name is Ginger, so it's Ginger Snaps. Like, she snaps. Get it? No, that's Twilight. No. Yeah, yeah.

No, there's a werewolf. The werewolf imprints on... What's... Renesmee. Taylor Lautner. No, Renesmee. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Taylor Lautner. He's got these sexy... Renesmee. He Renesmee. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got these sexy. Renesmee. He's got a nice chest. Yeah, yeah. Okay. You know he was like a karate champion?

Wait, really? Taylor Lautner, there are awesome videos of him at 13 just doing like 360 spin kicks breaking boards. Yeah, he was Lava Boy. I mean, Shark Girl?

Shark Boy. He was Shark Boy. He was Shark Boy. Yeah, man, he was Shark Boy. A great role in Cheaper by the Dozen 2 too one of the most underrated film franchises their daddy daycare and cheaper by the dozen too two fantastic movies and so what i'm saying is i think populism might come into play in this because i'm someone who spouts that argument

all the time i'm like look if society has told you something is the best there is some truth to that there is some sort of truth in numbers. People obviously love chocolate chip cookies. They're out selling. No, I can't go to the store, Trevor, and find a Chips Ahoy brand molasses ginger chew, even though I sure would love to. So I think there's something to this kind of like comfort thing. But then again, is that only a chicken or egg situation, which as we've discussed on the podcast, chicken definitely came first. It doesn't matter. Is that a chicken or egg situation, which as we've discussed on the podcast, chicken definitely came first. It doesn't matter. Is that a chicken or egg situation where like chocolate chip cookies are associated with comfort in America because they've been marketed to us so hard?

Or is there a greater cookie future that we could have if, say, Snickerdoodles were the dominant cookie? What is it about chocolate chips specifically that associates it like Proust's Madeleine to so many Americans? Tollhouse. Tollhouse. It's the Toll House. The Toll House Monopoly.

Exactly. The Toll House Industrial Complex needs to be toppled. Exactly. 1938. The invention of the chocolate chip cookie at the Toll House. Is that when it happened? Yeah, yeah. It was 1938.

There's actually some legend surrounding it because a lot of people. Yeah. A lot of people say that she accidentally did it where she added these chocolate chunks to cookie dough. Bull spit. Thinking that they would melt and make chocolate cookies. And then they came out. It's like, oh, it didn't melt. Now we have chocolate chunks in our cookie.

But then she was like, no, I meant to do it. I put chocolate chunks in there on purpose. That's me 24-7 at this job. I meant to do that. Yeah. Yeah, I did that on purpose. Why is every food origin story just like someone messed up?

They're just like, ah, fudge, I dropped the sandwich in the broth and now it's a French dip. A slice of potato's too thin and now it's a chip. Wait till you hear the story

of the origin of the croissant. I wrote an essay on this in culinary school. Wait, Trevor, please, I'm so fascinated by what people did in culinary school

because I never went. A lot of people seem to think that I have. But I dropped out of an international relations political science major at UCLA. Shout out to the public school system for letting me fail. That was fun. But Trevor, I want to hear about your academic experience in culinary

school right about the croissant. You want to hear about my academic experience? No, I more just want to hear about the origin of the croissant. Did you have to take math? Did I have to take math? What's 9 times 7? 9 times 7? 35.

No, that is not it. 60! It is 63. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 63, 63. That's way too long. It all threw me off. I'm sorry, guys. Culinary school did not set me up for success.

It didn't. I didn't have to do math, no. I mean, I had to do a little bit, like, just adding grams and stuff, but I wasn't, like, taking math tests in culinary school. Wait, so what's the origin of the croissant, though? I'm curious now. I would, it's been a minute. I would have to go look at the essay to give you some of the finer details,

but essentially the story goes that it actually originated in Vienna and there was an army attacking this Viennese city and there was a baker and the army that was attacking this Viennese city, like, or this Austrian city, they tunneled underground to get through the wall of the city and they tunneled underground really early in the morning and the only way that the city knew that they were attacking was because the local town baker was there baking his pastries and he heard them tunneling underground which allowed the city to route the soldiers. And so in honor of this baker, and then like, there was some like crest, like moon symbol, like for the town. And so he made this pastry to commemorate their

defense of the city. And then there's also another legend, because obviously the French claim that it's their like national pastry. There's another French legend. There's a lot of controversy surrounding who actually created this croissant. There's something about a French legend where this French princess had a baker specifically bake her own new type of pastry. And then he came up with the croissant and then it became all the rage. So there's a lot of different stories. But my favorite is the story of like the the austrian city that um defended their walls and made an honorary pastry for it why are there there's so many like weird nationalism stories that are tied into into food myths like uh the whole like italian unification

thing where they're like we put the green of the basil and the white of the cheese and the red of the sauce to represent the colors of italy And then like actual historians like people have been making that pizza for a hundred years. Poor Italian fishermen making the same damn pizza. Like this, this wasn't no invention. But like food is like art in that sense. You know, like people just give it like some sort of lore. Yeah.

Like you, you apply meaning to it. Like apple pie in America. Exactly. We got to apply meaning to it. Even though apple pie is French, man, the French keep getting screwed on this. You got Vienna trying to steal the croissant. Actually, laminated doughs have been around for a long time. It's literally called Viennoiserie, right?

Yeah. So the French didn't really, like, laminated dough has been around forever. And then it sort of got popularized by the French. So that's why they kind of claim it as their own. But laminated is, actually actually it was um it was dutch immigrants to vienna originally that brought laminated dough to austria so it didn't even actually originate in austria there was a dutch worker strike in bakeries because bakeries weren't paying their workers so they said well we'll just go across the border and bake our pastries there and get paid and that's how the

laminated dough got brought to austria and then these Austrian people were like, oh, this is dope. Like, we'll use this. This is dope, bro. That's awesome. The donut was invented by Dutch Jews on a ship. Nice. I go full on like my big fat Greek wedding when it comes to like Jews inventing food. Because I'm fully convinced that like Jews invented tempura. Yeah, we made fried chicken.

Yeah, Jews invented fried chicken. There was a way to preserve food. This is not verifiable at all. I read it on like one Jewish blog that was called like whyjewsinventedallfood.com or something. But I am fully convinced

that it was Portuguese Jewish explorers who brought tempura to Japan. Okay. Fully convinced. Chocolate chip cookies, good. Is that what we were talking about? Have you ever heard of that? Chocolate chip cookies

as an American symbol over other things. Is that stuff like tied into this toll house myth of like this i was like a rags to riches story that everyone could believe in because this is a chocolate chip cookies are a monopoly that's the thing i don't like no monopoly is a board game what what do you know the monopoly guy doesn't have a monocle what that's one of the mandela effect isn't he winking he's winking though i think so but i assume he's winking have a monocle? What? That's one of the Mandela effectors. Isn't he winking? He's winking though. I think so, but I assume he's winking with a monocle. He doesn't have a monocle. Here's the thing about the chocolate chip cookie for me.

I think that it has a sort of like desert island factor to it where like there are a lot of cookies that I really like, but I only want to eat them like one time or be like, oh, that was a good cookie. But I wouldn't, if I was stuck on a desert island with one cookie to eat for the rest of my life it's gonna be a chocolate chip cookie right snickerdoodle for me because it's just so it's so repeatable like i can eat chocolate chip cookies over and over again and not get tired of them oh i'm that way with cinnamon sugar cookies i mean there's nothing i could eat that i could eat like 15 of them no problem this is maybe shifting the conversation a little bit in my mind because when i think of the best meals

that i've ever eaten none of them are ones that i would particularly want to eat all the time sure you know what i mean there are certain foods like that shout out to like uh you know burritos la palma like i could eat their chicharron burrito every single day for the rest of my life but they're all these like you know big meals filled with like huge uh pungent flavors that i really love you know thinking about food at like night market song yeah stuff like that but i don't know if it's stuff that i would want to like completely eat all the time similar to the way that like this molasses ginger cookie that i absolutely love i love the robustness of the spices cutting through all that sugar but desert island i mean

it's hot on that desert island am i gonna going to want to eat spicy cookies all day? I mean, the robustness would just make you want to chop your beard off. It's so robust. That's adorable that you think I can grow a beard. I tried. I feel like on a Desert Island, you would have like a Tom. What's his name? Tom?

No. What's his name? Tom Hanks? Casey Affleck. Tom Hanks. Casey Affleck. Matt Damon. No, the guy Castaway, guys. You like these apples? Castaway. Matt Damon. Matt Damon was not a Castaway. At. Casey Affleck. Matt Damon. No, the guy cast away, guys. Yeah, you like these apples?

Cast away. Matt Damon. Matt Damon was not a cast away. At the end of Martian. Oh my God, I didn't watch Martian. How about eating these apples? That's what Matt Damon says. When he makes poop apples?

Yeah, when he makes poop apples. You've talked about, why do we talk about poop apples? What I'm saying is, I would absolutely, if I was on a desert island and I had to pick one cookie or even like one confection to eat, it wouldn't be my favorite cookie. The one that I think tastes objectively the best because it's something that I wouldn't want to eat all the time. But how much value does that actually have? Does it need to be something you want to eat all the time? I think you just have to define what number one means to you.

Yeah. Like what does number one mean? Like the best cookie of all time, the goat cookie? Or is it the cookie that you can eat the most of? Like, you know, it's just defining it as that. I think a desert island is a great way to look at it. Bringing up a sports metaphor, it's like, is Michael Jordan the goat or is Bill Russell the goat? I don't know who Bill Russell is.

Bill Russell has almost twice the amount of championships as Michael Jordan. I don't know that. Just because he has that staying power, just because he was on a good team in an era where there weren't any incredible players. Are you saying he's the best, Trevor? Are you saying Bill Russell's the GOAT? No, I'm not saying Bill Russell is the GOAT because you have to look at okay, who's the better basketball

player? Obviously, Michael Jordan is the better basketball player, but how is he better statistically? What about LeBron James? Is he better statistically? We should not be into this type of stuff. We'll yell about it back in the kitchen. I don't know anything about sports. Okay, one thing.

This is more of a philosophical question. That's where I like to take these things going. Would you rather have, say you, let's imagine a fake serotonin level, right, of just five. Let's call five a baseline serotonin level of happiness. That is your average happiness. Would you rather live a life at all five straight across the board or have a sine curve of tens and zeros? Like, do you think that having this diversity of experience, because your average happiness over the long term is going to be the same, you know what I'm saying? But do you value diversity of experience enough to experience the highs and the lows? Or would

you rather just be flatlined? When I'm zero serotonin, how mad am I at life? Oh, my God. You are so mad. You're like, ugh, this caramel is not coming together, and I can't figure it out, mad. And 10 is like euphoria. Or no, what is it? White chocolate.

The white chocolate kept it. Oh, frick, yeah. And then 10 is like euphoria. Yeah. Like you're at Coachella. You're slightly responsibly tipsy. You know, I think life needs up and downs or else you're flatlining. So I'm going to say zero to 10.

I agree with that entirely. That is way, honestly, that is way too black and white of a statement for me. Black and white cookies. Black and white cookies. Why am I black and white cookies? Speaking of Jews, the black and white cookie. That is one Jewish food food invention quick tangent that is one jewish food invention that i'm always like we got better things than that i've never had it before jews are the first person to put like you know a little

strip of icing on two sides of a normal sugar cookie i love black and white cookies i've never had whenever anyone's like that is the best you know contribution of jews to society i'm like hold on like we got we got more stuff we got no'm like, hold on. Like we got, we got more stuff. We got Noam Chomsky. We got more stuff. We got Noam Chomsky. We got Julian Edelman. But Trevor, back to the question.

Do you value that diversity of experience over something consistent? It's really hard for me to answer that question because I disagree with the question because life will never be lived on either a single average or a high low only but we're talking about uh hypothetically this whole podcast is hypotheticals hypothetically i would say that hmm i'd say i'd say i'd probably like i'd do the average like i'm just i'm i'm i'm content to continue to kind of be at this stage of where like, I'm good, you know, I'm chilling. Yeah, I think that it's a total valid argument.

Like there's no right or wrong answer to that. The reason I bring that up in relation to cookies is my whole food philosophy is I always want to chase the best thing possible, knowing that I'm going to eat a lot of crappy things to get there. Like even when I go to, and I'll do it to my detriment.

And I understand that. Like when I go to a restaurant, if I eat something that I really like, and then I go to that restaurant again, I'm probably not going to order it. Yes. Because of the opportunity cost of like, well, there's so many other things.

And if the chef made that thing taste really good, they can probably make this thing taste really good. And what if that is the best thing I've ever had? And I'm always kind of chasing that high. And so even when it comes to something as simple as cookies, it's like, I know what every chocolate chip cookie I've ever had tastes like. I want to throw some ginger root in there.

Throw some molasses. Throw some dark spice. Give me some anise. Give me some miso. You ever had a miso chocolate chip cookie? Dude, miso sugar cookie. I don't like miso chocolate, but miso sugar cookie is great. See, Josh, though, I think you're underestimating

the potential and capability of the chocolate chip cookie to blow your mind. Cause I think that you haven't had like a really amazing knock your socks off chocolate chip cookie. I think you've had very average to maybe above average chocolate chip cookies. And you've been satisfied and content with that to say, okay, it's like, well, whatever cookie to me.

I don't think you've had your world rocked by a chocolate chip cookie. Trevor, rock my world, bro't think you've had your world rocked by a chocolate chip cookie i trevor rock my world bro i want my world to be rocked actually you did make the dominic ansel cookies in one of the first weeks that you were here but you were like just getting used to our oven which is the thing that anyone who has ever baked anything knows like you have to be familiar with the oven and it burnt the bottom and the disappointment in your face i was so sad oh it was crushing for everybody we also don't have a convection oven, which makes it really hard to make a perfect chocolate chip cookie. Just open it up and go, blow air in it.

I don't think that works. You gotta make concessions in the Mythical Kitchen. Okay. I had a point that I was going to make and I completely forgot about it, but I feel like it was a good one. Do you remember what it was? I'm not in your mind. I know you think I am, but I'm not. Was it more philosophical nonsense?

It totally was. It totally was philosophical nonsense. Oh, this is what it was. When you answer the question, what's your favorite cookie? You're not just saying what cookies you enjoy eating. You are trying to paint an image of yourself. You're trying to tell the world, this is what I want you to think of me based on my favorite cookie. And I think through our little thought experiment, we figured out why Trevor's someone who values this consistency in his life. He values comfort. Look at him. He's dressed so comfortably. So comfortably. So comfortably.

And I'm someone who wants to chase these constant highs. That's why when someone asks me my favorite cookie, I'm like, ginger, molasses, want to be punched in the face with spice. I don't want the comfort of a chocolate chip cookie because I'm familiar with that. I want to chase the unexpected. And then Nicole's like, I like cinnamon sugar. I'm Nicole. I think for me, there is something to be said about like,

I love as a baker taking those things that seem really simple and don't have a lot of like facets and making them as good as I can, whether it's croissants, whether it's cookies, whether it's bread, I love taking those things that just have like that small handful of base ingredients and doing the best thing that I can with them. And I think that's why I love a chocolate chip cookie so much because it's so simple, but you can take those simple ingredients and elevate them to such high levels. Craftsman. That was beautiful. A true craftsman.

What a way to end the podcast. What a way to end the podcast. I agree. Okay. Chocolate chips in my top three. I agree. So many people like it. Trevor's right.

We're going to have a chocolate chip off. We're all going to make chocolate. It's a chip off. We're going to make a, isn't that tip off? all going to make chocolate chips. It's a chip-off! We're going to make a... Isn't that tip-off? Basketball? Look, Nicole knows sports! Nicole, Trevor, we've heard what you and I have to say. Now it's time to find out

what other wacky ideas are rattling around there in the Twitterverse. It's time for a segment we call Opinions Are Like Casseroles! One more time with Trevor. It's time for a segment we call Opinions Are Like Casseroles! Now harmonize. It's time for a segment we call... Opinions are like casseroles. Now harmonize. It's time for the segment we call...

Opinions are like casseroles. You're flat. You're dragging. You're dragging. Why are you looking at me? I'm an alto. Okay, wait. First...

Okay, first. I need to hear Trevor's Sling Blade impression on camera. Trevor, just say, Some folks call it a Sling Blade. Some folks call it a Kaiser Blade. If I can get through without laughing. Some folks call it a Sling Blade. I call it a Kaiser Blade.

No, no, there's got to be more. Go to all. Some folks call it a Sling Blade. Others call it a Kaiser Blade. Some folks call it a Kaiser Blade. Sorry. I like french fry potatoes. Just paraphrasing.

Sorry, Billy Bob Thornton. I reckon my mother didn't exactly mind what Jesse Dickton was doing. He was having his way with the scene we're in. All right. Welcome to Opinions Are Like Casseroles. Is that what it's called? Opinions Are Like Casseroles? That's the name of the segment.

That makes sense. Yeah, I think I made that up. Maybe Mike did. All right. First up, we got Shameless A. Wong. Most of the the time i use a fork to eat food that's meant to be hand on fries muffins wings drumsticks because i don't like getting my fingers or keyboard messy i love the idea that you're only eating over your computer even if i do wash or wipe is this a valid choice or am i dissing the food that's actually a very good question i don't think you're dissing

the food i think you're still having the same experience. I get it. Like I'm the same way sometimes. Like I don't like getting my fingers dirty, but other times I just, you know, what if there's a lamb chop on the table, I'm reaching in for it. So it depends on the food you're eating. You know, like if, if there's like a sticky, like, you know, gulab jamun, is that how you say it? I love gulab jamun. Yeah. You can't, like, I can't eat that with my fingers. Trevor, you ever have gulab jamun? I haven't, but I will say that I eat like 95% of the food that I eat over my computer. So I 100% agree with this. I eat my pizza rolls with a fork, dude.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What? You eat pizza rolls with a fork? Some things you got to use a fork. I eat, okay, this is really messed up because I eat almost all my dinners while I'm like playing video games on the couch because I will get home from work and I will heat up my dinner and I'll like let it cool a little bit. I'll play a game of Rocket League and then I eat the food with my hands and then I just like wipe it on my couch. I love the tactile experience.

It's a crap couch from Wayfair. There were no children in it. Have a little bit of respect for your domicile. I'm throwing the couch away when I move away from this apartment. It was a totally crap couch. So anyways, I am the complete opposite. I love the tactile experience of eating with your hands, despite the fact that I know I'm ruining a perfectly fine

couch. You can clean couches, right? Like you can... Yeah, you can get... Like services? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna keep wiping Maranara on my couch. I don't care. Maranara. Literally, I just ate a plate of meatballs with my hands. I used corn tortillas, like roti and subji, talking about Indian food. And I used corn tortillas to scoop up the meatballs.

Trevor, you ate those meatballs. Yeah, they were really good. Yeah, thanks. And then I just ate them in my mouth. You got a nice couch, I think. I think you're being too harsh on your couch. Yeah, it's an okay couch. Trevor helped me move into my apartment way back when.

Mr. Ken Pachi, the best snack of my childhood was when my grandma would take plain Cheerios, fry them up in a bit of butter until they turned brown and salted them. People are usually surprised when I tell them about this. This sounds good. This sounds like making your own crackers. That's some grandma food. This is delicious. It's the classic butter salt Cheerios.

Dude, this is actually really good. I would eat this. I would go to, but only if they were honey nut, because I like the contrast of sweet and salty. That's a delicacy from the American South. Dude, honestly, this seems like something that would have shown up in one of those, like, 1950s church cookbooks. Yeah, for sure.

Mormon cookbook. Yeah, yeah. Like, you got, like, jello salad, funeral potatoes. Butter Cheerios. My ex's grandma had a, why does all my ex-ex relationships come up in this? Whatever. My ex's grandma, they did like a family cookbook thing

and she had this thing that was called like Crabbies. And it was just like artificial crab mixed with mayonnaise, put it on English muffin, American cheese on top, broiled. And it's delicious. That sounds like grandma food. The only way I could add to that,

chives. A little fresh pop off the top. Yeah, that's it. Some chives. Trevor Reed. Okay. At Mythic Squirrel on Twitter says, Baked Lays are the superior chip.

I can easily eat six Baked Lays to one regular Lays, hands down, based entirely on enjoyment alone. I have never disagreed with your mind casserole more. One, I have to clarify, are you talking about six baked Lay's individual chip to one regular Lay's chip or six bags? I don't

understand the ratio. I'm confused by the ratio. Also, I'm confused by this opinion. Also, we all have stank faces because we're shocked. We all physically recoiled from our microphones. I am disappointed in you, Mythic Squirrel. Baked Lays? What are you, a fashion?

That's disgusting, man. Who eats that? Willingly. The key to this is based on enjoyment alone. That's the phrase I'm tripped up on. I get it. Like, me and Trevor suck down Diet Cokes like they're glizzies, for Christ's sakes. Yeah, throat god.

Throat godding the Diet Cokes. That's a new one. If someone, we listen to Cupcake on Spotify, but if someone were to say like, are you doing that for enjoyment alone? Hell no. Diet Coke tastes better than regular Coke until you drink a regular Coke and you're like, oh yeah,

that's what flavor is. Ditto with baked lace for me. That said, if you enjoy it, keep on doing what you're doing, but know that you're fully judged over here. Ew. Yeah. At War Manatee 2, great name. I love sweet.

Hey, speaking of manatees, did you know that the origin of mermaids. Stop, stop, stop. Ugh, fine. At War Manatee 2. Someone's going to let me talk about it one day. I love sweet potatoes in any form. Cook them, mash them, put them in a stew. But the second you put marshmallows on top it becomes

sickly sweet and nightmare side that needs to stay in the 60s i love sweet potatoes i'm not i don't i don't know if you guys know this but i was a college athlete that was big one i had a partial scholarship very partial uh but i knew so many people that like soured me on sweet potatoes because you know usain bolt was like the secret to me being fast is the yams and so every time I knew that was my like toned down Usain Bolt every freaking athlete I knew would just like bring a whole sweet potato to practice

and just like squeeze it out of its skin into their mouth as they like you know drink muscle milk or whatever and so I've always been like a little bit soured on sweet potatoes but I do love them I also though really love just the classic garbage white American Thanksgiving sides like a little bit soured on sweet potatoes but I do love them. I also though really love just the classic garbage white American Thanksgiving sides. Yeah. Like a can of the

what is it Princess Yams is the brand? Yes I believe so. With marshmallows broiled on top. I think there's room for both but I see why you would think it's sickly sweet. It's basically a dessert at that point. Wait people are putting marshmallows on top of sweet potatoes? Oh. Is that a I haven't heard about that until now. You're from Idahoaho yeah and we're

not sickos that's disgusting okay this is disgusting i can't believe you've never heard no this is the first i'm hearing does it sound good to you no i'm horrified i don't really like sweet potatoes to be honest though um i never grew up eating marshmallows on top of anything in my house so uh this whenever I found out that this existed, I went ham. Like every single time I would be invited to like a Friendsgiving or anything, I would make a sweet potato casserole

where I would just take a bunch of sweet potatoes and mash them with brown sugar and like salt and butter. And then I would make my own marshmallow topping. And then for dramatics, in front of the whole entire Friendsgiving, I would turn on a blowtorch and just go. And then I was like the talk of the town entire Friendsgiving. I would turn on a blowtorch and just go, and then I was like, the talk of the town. So I think

it's disgusting, but it's deliciously disgusting. I like how we talk about how you and I have the same kind of palate and thought process when it comes to food. I did that same exact thing like four years ago, except with kabocha. Okay, you and I, that's crazy. I went one step more pretentious. I was like, oh, he's a Japanese pumpkin. Did you spray it in front of everyone?

Yeah, except it was such a small blowtorch and it was almost out that it didn't... I was like, oh, he's Japanese pumpkin. Did you spray it in front of everyone? Yeah, yeah. Except it was such a small blowtorch and it was almost out that it like didn't. I was like, I'll bang this out in 90 seconds. I was going to go,

wow, Josh, that's awesome. And instead I was there for five minutes like, hey guys, it's almost ready. That said, the sweet potato is a marshmallow thing. It almost reminds me

of like a Japanese dessert. Yeah. I've had like an Okinawan sweet potato just like poached in ginger syrup. I have actually. And it's like very like simplistic, you know, taking the sweetness of nature and extracting it and then put through

the American lens. It's like, well, we put this in a can, put the s'mores thing on it and then lit it on fire. And so I love it for that reason. Vegetables for dessert. Okay. At Imperator underscore rice. I know you get a lot of peanut butter opinions. Oh, I should have read this before. mentor underscore rice. I know you get a lot of peanut butter opinions. Oh, I should have read this before. But I put Lao Gan Ma in my PB and honey sandwiches and black pepper in my PB and J's. The little kick of heat it gives really helps to balance out how sweet everything else is. I agree with this. I put a little bit of salt on my peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Dude, Lao Gan Ma. It's Lao Gan Ma. Lao Gan Ma's good. A freaking moment. For everyone that doesn't know, it's a, I believe it's Sichuan, but it's a chili crisp. it's like almost good freaking moment for everyone that doesn't know it's uh i believe it's sichuan but it's a chili crisp it's chili crisp chili crisp condiment like hot oil uh

mike chen put it on his ice cream when he and i did that first we feast show together i just saw a shout out to esther shang who just put it on ice cream on my twitter feed that i was salivating all over yeah lao gan ma is uh fantastic order some on amazon if you can't find it at your local supermarket it will blow your freaking mind. Trevor, how do you feel about Lao Gan Ma? I've actually never had Lao Gan Ma. We have some.

I just got us some. You just got us some? Yes. I got us some a day ago. I mean, I'm not against, I've never had a PB&J with any sort of salty addition or anything like that,

but I'm not against it. It sounds like it could be really good. I love peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, so throw some Lao Gan Ma on there. We got ice cream in the freezer? We have Cherry Garcia. Lao Gan Ma and Cherry Garcia, let's do it. Let's do it. Okay. peanut butter and jelly sandwiches so throw some lao gan on there we got ice cream in the freezer we have cherry garcia lao gan man cherry garcia let's do it

let's do it at michellot18 says scrambled eggs sprinkled with cinnamon sugar um I no no no no cinnamon is such a good flavor and you're just ruining it when you're putting

it on eggs. Okay, what's flan? Right? What is creme de caramel? Custard. Custard. Custard. It's basically eggs.

Ew. Have you ever had, like, egg particles in your custard? Oh, that's the worst. If you're getting egg in your flan, then you're cooking your flan wrong, Joshua. I have actually tried to just make, like, a sweet omelet. I don't know if I was under the influence of something at the time,. I have actually tried to just make like a sweet omelette. I don't know if I was under the influence of something at the time, but I have done this. Well, if you think about Japanese tamagoyaki, this is another

classic Josh stupid circular logic. There's a lot of sugar in tamagoyaki. It's basically a sweet omelette, right? Yeah. That's fine, but with the addition of cinnamon? Why? It's just cinnamon instead of kombu. Yeah. Ew. Those two of cinnamon? No, thank you. It's just cinnamon instead of kombu. Yeah, ew. Yeah, those two are not interchangeable, man.

At Michelle Lott, I dig your scrambled eggs with cinnamon sugar. Don't listen to Trevor and Nicole. They're haters. What? All right. At G.Keaton, Chef Boyardee is the Bob Ross of food. That's accurate in my mind. Josh is obsessed with Chef Boyardee and thinks that he's the reason why we won the World War.

Josh is obsessed with Chef Boyardee and thinks that he's the reason why we won the World War. Ettore Boyardee kept his canning factory open for 24 hours a day, became a national hero, won the Medal of Honor. He probably didn't, but I'm going to say that he did. And he won the war. Take that, fascism. You got beat by ravioli.

I don't have anything to say. I think Josh summed it up pretty well. Okay. Max Rowan Rocks says, canned corn is trash, whereas frozen corn is top shelf. My mom would try to sneak in canned in meals and I would sniff it out and refuse. To this day, I'm over 40. I still will not eat canned corn. It is not good and should be discontinued.

Okay. Yeah, you're right. Frozen corn is better than canned corn because they flash freeze it in an IQF. IQF is individually quality frozen. I know that because I used to be an R&D chef. But yeah, I agree with you. Frick canned corn unless it's esquite, which is delicious. Yo, I would just eat just straight up corn out of the can with the liquid when I was a kid, and I would still

do that. I don't like frozen corn for some reason. I feel like it gets mushier. I respect Nicole and her scientific knowledge, but one thing, he's going after the wrong guy here. He's got the wrong perp. The real perp is peas. Because frozen peas are like, that is literally the way to eat a

pea. I remember Iron Chef America had battle frozen peas, and the remember Iron Chef America had battle frozen peas and the guy had to go, battle frozen peas! And they explained that freezing a pea, flash freezing it like you talked about,

is actually a way to preserve it because that's such a short shelf life and there's so much labor involved in taking them out. Whereas canned peas are just like pure mush. They're brown.

Yeah, they're just like this brown, kind of tepid little things. But frozen peas are absolutely, that's one of the things that I keep in my freezer at all times. I, when I was young, I refused to eat corn off of the cob. I literally would not eat it.

Put it back on the cob. Would it like bother you? Yeah, I just didn't like corn off the cob. Like you gave me a whole corn cob, I'd munch that thing down to the bone, but I would not, if there was like a bowl of just kernels of corn, I could not eat it. And I still don't.

I don't know if I don't like it still. Refuse to eat uncobbled corn. I only eat corn on the cob, so frick them both in my opinion. Is that because you can use the cob as toilet paper afterwards? You guys didn't know that? That's how pioneers and stuff would wipe their bum bum?

They'd use spent corn cobs? You guys did not know this. I think Josh just wiped his butt with a corn cob one time, and now he's trying to justify it. You scrape. You don't insert. Okay. Okay.

It's like a credit. You credit card it. That opinion was like a debit card. Let's go. And on that note, thank you for listening to A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. We got new episodes for you every Wednesday. If you want to be featured on Opinions Are Like Casseroles,

you can hit us up on Twitter at MythicalChef or nhendizadeh with the hashtag OpinionCasserole. For more Mythical Kitchen, check us out on YouTube and we launch new videos every week. And of course, if you want to share pics of your dishes, hit us up on Instagram at Mythical Kitchen. We'll see you next time. Trevor, thank you for stopping by KPCC out of Pasadena City College, an NPR affiliate. This has been so lovely. Thank you for having me on.

Come on anytime.