A Problem Squared - 037 = Digital Displays and Digits All Splayed

Episode Date: July 4, 2022

In this episode...   * When does a high five become a low five?   * What is the most efficient digital display?   * And, some any other beesness   Just 18 more sleeps until APS is LIVE at Bluedot - that's between 19:45 - 20:45 on Friday the 22nd July.   Please send in your Bluedot specific questions to the Problem Solving Page including the phrase 'Bluedot'.   You can do this on Twitter too, but it might get lost!   A big shout out to Mr Thing, just because they are fantastic. You can find them on Twitter: @wearemrthing or on their website here: https://www.wearething.co.uk/.   You can also see them at this year's Edinburgh Fringe Fest, and buy tickets for that here: https://tickets.edfringe.com/whats-on/mr-thing-show.   As always, if you've got a problem or a solution, hit us up on our website aproblemsquared.com.   And if you want want even more from A Problem Squared, find us on Twitter and Instagram.  

Welcome to A Problem Squared, the podcast that is a hive of problem-solving activity. We are the worker bees who go out and collect problems from you, the listeners. That's the pollen, I guess, in this situation. We bring those problems back to the hive. We turn them into delicious solutions and or honey. Yep. And then listeners get that honey and they spread it on their toast, which is. I was going to say their toes.

No, the toast. Toast. Or toes. Whatever you're into. I'm not going to judge. Raise their babies in it. They're young. Wait, the bees, the listeners, the bees?

The listeners are pollen. Oh, yeah. The pollen are the problems. Oh, right, yep. The solutions is the honey and the toast is the listeners' ears. Okay. That's where the solutions get smeared over at the end. But the listeners are the flowers, right?

Because of the pollen and the problems. They are, yes. It's a mess. Either way, it's a sticky mess. So you can hear a co-host, one of our many worker bees, Beck Hill, who much like a worker bee, enjoys outfits that are brightly colored and patterned. And I communicate through dance.

You do communicate through dance. Yeah. I do not not My name is almost B I have waggled while communicating I've seen you waggle You will travel great distances for a treat That's true I mean you came here by the bakery Yeah even though it's a detour

Which I was going to say as a worker bee I like hexagons. Yes. And tessellations. You do? But to nip in the bud, everyone's saying you also drone on. I will accept the drone. Yeah.

Because my on-air career was also surprisingly short. So life, my life, my on. I see what you're saying. There's a hilarious joke there about my short-lived TV career and the life expectancy of a drone. Yep. Bee. A drone bee.

Yes. Yeah. Also buzz, something about, there's a lot of buzz. A lot of buzz. A lot of buzz about this podcast. Yeah. Beesness. Bee of taking care. Well, we're going to have any other beesness at the end of the. Ah, we'll cut that bit out. Yeah. Beesness. Bees.

Well, we're going to have any other beesness at the end of the day. Oh, we'll cut that bit out and keep that a secret. Actually, if there's going to be any other beesness, what else is in today's episode? Beck will be giving us the lowdown on high fives. Matt will be working out the most efficient digital displays. And any other bees-ness. Just going to keep saying that.

And what is a high five if not contracted to hive? Oh. On the bee theme as well, that was just our sting that we played in then. Oh. My goodness. What happened? Did you steal my pun powers? I have put so little thought into this and it's working out so well.

I know. I'm really letting down the team. This is great. Anyway, Beck, how have you been? How have I been? Have you been? Yeah. Good.

Hey, I tell you what. You tell me. I was doing. That would help the podcast dramatically. I will tell you. So, you know, there's a show called Werewolf Live. Oh, is that where they play the game Werewolf? Yeah.

Yeah. Which is a bit like. Like Mafia. Yeah. Any of those ones. And it's just where comedians play that game. It's one of those games where someone is the villain the villain there's like two some form werewolves in this one right and yeah everyone has to guess who the werewolves are it's a long drawn out psychological uh game of

accusing your friends yes oh yeah very much psychologically profiling everyone yeah yeah and so it's a bunch of comedians making assumptions about each other, getting angry, arguing, and people pay to watch it. That's very funny. I love it. As you know, I've not been taking any bookings while things have been so busy recently. However, I will do Werewolf Life because all I have to do is show up and argue. Oh, nice. It's wonderful. Very little prep. So I was doing that in Covent Garden in London, and it's only an hour-long show. So it went from seven, finished at eight.

Most of the other comics are going off to their other gigs or maybe going home. I realized there were two lovely gentlemen at the back of the room. I thought, I know them. And it was Tom and Owen from Mr. Thing. Oh. Which is a show that you guested on a few times. I love Mr. Thing.

In Edinburgh. Yeah. A late night talk show where you got killed off. I got killed off. You started doing a set and got murdered. Several nights. There's a lot of murder in the shows we do. So, yeah, that's very true.

So for context, this was like a talk show-ish chat show thing. But one of the running themes was one of their guests, I think it was Judi Dench, escapes and then kills one of the other guests. Yes. And they would get on different comedians to play the other guest. The thing is if you played that role, you didn't get to do much of your material.

You got to tell like a joke and then you were attacked by Judi Dench. Yes. And then you had to lie dead on the stage for the rest of the show. And so I just, because I love their work so much, I said, hey, whenever you need, if you can't find someone, because they were doing this every night, I'll fill in. So I must have done that. Goodness, three or four times.

Yeah, just whenever someone backed out. Whenever they lost someone at the last minute, because we're in the same venue as them. Yeah, yeah. And backed out. Whenever they lost them at the last minute, because we're in the same venue as them. Yeah, yeah. And they're lovely guys. It was a whole team, but obviously Owen and Tom were sort of the main drivers of it, and it turns out that they're curating shows at the same venue that Werewolf Live was on at.

So they said afterwards, oh, we're going to pop up to the office and have a drink. Do you want to come and hang out? They've got an office. Yeah. So I said, sure. So I went up to the office. Wow. It. Do you want to come and hang out? They've got an office. Yeah. So I said, sure. So I went up to the office. Wow.

It's about eight o'clock at night. I left at about 1.30 in the morning. So a lot like Edinburgh Festival. It was a lot like Edinburgh Festival. I mean, I had some very nice tequila. Oh. Sipping tequila. Oh, sipping tequila.

I need to specify. I mean, all tequila should be sipping tequila, but I need to specify. No, but that's not true. Sipping tequila. I need to specify. I mean, all tequila should be sipping tequila, but I need to specify. No, that's not true. The difference in quality between terrible tequila, or otherwise known as regular tequila, and proper sipping tequila is dramatic.

I don't even mind regular tequila. I just think the problem is that everyone keeps drinking it to get drunk, and I like to drink it like a whiskey. Good tequila is good tequila. Oh, it was very good tequila. And so, but I also had some beers and some Prosecco. Look, by the way, I'm not condoning getting drunk. I think I can put my finger on what went wrong here.

Yeah, well, to be honest, I did discover they had a soda stream and then insisted that we make fizzy orange drink, which I then proceeded to spill everywhere. This story checks out. They've still asked me back. Oh, there you go. They've still said, yeah, come back. At one point, I remember we started playing odd instruments.

I learned how to play the- Is that the name of the game? No, he's just got a bunch of strange instruments around the office. There was like a very old, I think it's like a bugle, but as in the straight ones, the long straight ones. They look like a Vuvuzela. So someone got a bugle and straightened it out. Yeah.

I mean, that's a funny practical joke. So I got taught how to play the Muppet theme tune on that. Hopefully there's no residents in the building because that would have been an awful thing to. Was there another show in downstairs afterwards? I mean, I think everyone had gone home by that stage. I also met Gus who edits all the videos for them. He's wonderful. And that's when I also met Gus who edits all the videos for them. He's wonderful.

And that's when I sent you a video. It would have been about 2 a.m. our time over here because they've got a recurring image. The employee of the month. Yeah, where it's him sitting at his computer, his back. You sent me a photo and I was in Australia. It was like a reasonably normal time in the morning in Australia. Yeah. A photograph of someone sat at their desk looking away from the camera. It was a video. It was in Australia. So it was like a reasonably normal time in the morning in Australia. Yeah.

A photograph of someone sat at their desk looking away from the camera. It was a video. It was a video. And you zoomed in on the wall was a framed picture of employee of the month, which was the person sitting at the desk looking away from the camera. Yeah. So we will share that. Yeah. We'll tag Mr.

Thing as well. Good people. If you can see Mr. Thing, see Mr. Thing. Yeah. I do. I think they're doing Edinburgh again. Really? Yeah. And I think they're doing some previews and stuff. I you can see Mr. Thing, see Mr. Thing. Yeah, do you know what? I think they're doing Edinburgh again.

Really? Yeah, and I think they're doing some previews and stuff. I don't know what dates or anything, but, you know, they are worth checking out. Check the internet. It's very fun. They've got a puppet. Good puppet. Who doesn't want to watch that?

How about you, Matt? How have you been? Oh, I've been good. Had a great time in Australia. Now I'm back. Fighting jet lag. Yeah, how did Australia go? It was good fun.

In fact, I have a tale of impeccable customer service. Ooh. I love these tales. Oh, this is good. I'm going to strap in. So I had all, get ready. It's a real rollercoaster. I had ordered some electronic devices from JB Hi-Fi.

Ooh, yes. For our Aussie listeners. Yep. And I did the click and collect. So I knew some things I definitely wanted i did the click and collect so i i knew i knew some things i definitely wanted so i click and collected them and i thought i'd browse the rest of the store they do everything from like you know computer equipment music yeah kind of like curries more music and indie yeah but you can buy a fridge can you now yeah i remember when i would

just go there for cds just cds it was it It was the place to get CDs and small yellow plastic bags. Yes. And now they've diversified. And so I ordered some items, went in there, went to pick them up. And as I got to the checkout where you give them the code and then they were like, oh, have you got your photo ID? I was like, I knew it. I'd read that in the confirmation email and I had not brought my photo ID.

And I was like, I don't want to have to go all the way back to where I'm staying and then come all the way back in again. And they went all out to find a way to give me my goods. Did that involve Googling you? Well, no. I was wondering when is the socially acceptable time to say, can you just Google me? Yeah.

I had a beard at the time i have to specify the video oh yeah yeah and then i look exactly like the picture but they went all out they were like you see the thing i didn't even have a car like a bank card on me because i just i had my phone yeah paying and for everything and then i realized i was like oh is there is there like a mobile number on the order like yes there is, yes, there is. I was like, oh, if you ring that and my phone rings, I didn't say. I was thinking either I've stolen someone's phone or this is definitely my order. But then they rang it and they typed the wrong number. Oh.

They spoke to someone else, a very confused person. Oh, gosh. Who said that they did not have a JB Hi-Fi pre-order. No. And then they tried to ring. It didn't go through. But eventually I managed to ring the store and I had a conversation of me on one side of the counter.

Oh, nice. And it was like the staff member and their manager doing everything. And they are like, yes, we can release your goods. And so they phoned down to the warehouse and said, bring up the goods. And I was so amazed that they went to that incredible length. And then the guy came up with the goods, walked around the corner and went, oh, hey, you're Matt Parker. Where were you 20 minutes ago? Do you know what I love?

I like to think that he's not a fan of yours. He just knew he'd heard that there'd been this really annoying customer who didn't bring their id that's very very funny did they did he was there a moment where he where they were like how do you know no no no they'd moved on to other he definitely told them later exactly when you left you left, he definitely went. You know, it was kind of. And do you know what? They would have been like, oh, I bet he didn't bring his idea

because he thought he didn't need it. Because he thinks he's all that. Because he's so famous. No, not at all. Oh, that's lovely. Yeah. That's a great story. Yeah.

I chuckled for a long time afterwards. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was thinking of all the places someone should, like a tech store. Come on. Of course. Well, if you're listening to this, JB Hi-Fi tech guy. Osborne Park.

Oh, what was his name? Something like Evan. I apologize, Evan, if that's not your name. Anyway, Osborne Park, JB Hi-Fi. Shout out. Great customer service, great taste in YouTube videos. Not sponsored. Hashtag not an ad. No, not an ad. Mr. Thing was an ad. They pay us a lot of money for that. Sent in by Robbie on the problem posing page at a problem squared.com.

When does a high five become a low five? They then clarify. Does it depend on the height of the hands or the direction the fingers are pointing? Some things do. Can one person be high-fiving and the other low-fiving in the same high-low five? Wow. Ooh. So Cal wants to know what's the difference between a high-five and a low-five?

Mm-hmm. And can you have a simultaneous high-low five combo? Okay. I think at first this sounds like a very complex problem. Yeah. However. Oh. It's not. Oh, complex problem. Yeah. However. Oh. It's not.

Oh, my goodness. Matt. Yes. Give me a low five. Look at the position of your hand. My palm is facing up to the ceiling. Yeah. Yeah.

And then in order for me to give you a low five, I then have to slap down. Yep. That's a low five. You can't, you, it's not about how high or low you hold your hand. You're saying it's the orientation of the palm. I do think that. Because my palm was horizontal and your palm was horizontal. Yeah.

We were low fiving. I think I have to be able to go in a downwards fashion to slap your hand. Is there a difference between high-five? Yeah. We just did a high-five. Both palms are vertical. Yes. Up top.

So I've got to go upwards. What's that? What's this? Yeah. So Matt's holding his hand out. Palm down to the floor. And I'm going up. Yep.

Yeah. What was that? Well, that's an up top or up high. Because that was. High five, down, no, it's up high, down low, too slow, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So my point is, is that it's not like if you're high fiving someone in a normal high five situation.

Yep. So your palms are vertical. Yep. Then it doesn't matter whether it's high or low i think that is still a high five okay and i think that's because if you are and this then comes into i know there's some people going but no because then it's not high now this is the thing if we're roughly the same height, we physically can't, we have to, it has to be at least sort of at a right angle to our bodies for us to be able to slap with force because of the angle of our elbows and shoulders. Wait, hang on. Where do you hinge from when you're.

You sort of, you move your shoulder, your shoulder moves and and your elbow i feel like my arm is kind of constantina-ing out yes yeah which means if you try and do that yeah at a lower oh i can't come up you're right i need to we can't i need to reorientate yeah yeah and then it's no longer a high five because the palm is changing huh so if your palms are vertical you have to be able to either yep push out horizontally or higher so because of the position of your arms however yeah if you're high-fiving someone who is smaller than you a common occurrence like quite small though like a child okay right yep you might need to put out your hand at a weird. Bring it right down. Like sometimes you have to go to the side, you know, but your palm's still vertical.

Still vertical, yep. So a child can slap your hand and you go high five. That's not like you might not feel that that is a high five. It's still a high five. But it is still a high five because it's high five for them. What if you do a high five? Both people then carry on the momentum, swing their hands all the way around,

coming down past their sides now. Oh, right. So when you say, because when you high five, your hands connect. Yep. So you're saying you then stopped connecting. You're not pushing my arm backwards. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah.

So we high five. We're doing slow motion. We high five, boom, and then we swing all the way around. So we've slipped past each other. Bam. On the. And now that, I mean, I would, I think that I would classify that as a. Is that a whole different beast?

Is that a down low? No, it's not. Is it a follow through? Yeah. It's like a follow through, isn't it? Yeah. It's not a high five though. It's a different beast.

Because you can't start with that. Oh, it's behind, isn't it? High five from behind. Right. Up high. Up high.? High five from behind. Right. Up high. Up high. Down low too slow. Okay.

So that's a, I'm going to name it the behind five. From behind. That's what it is. What if one person was lying down? I see what you're saying. From my point of view, my palm is perpendicular to my body, which would be a low five. But then from your point of view, it's vertical. So for you it would be a high five. then from your point of view it's vertical so if you'd be a high is this the hybrid that cow i would say it then constitutes the same rules as if you're high fiving a child okay so someone's lying down they just count as a child rules i would say it's all

it's whatever the other person has to do after the high five like it's whatever the other person has to do. You'd say good job sport after the high five. Like it's whatever the other person has to do. Not the receiver of the high five. Let's go with. The non-instigator. You've got the initiator. Oh, yes. And you've got the executor. Yes.

So it's the movement of the executor defines the naming convention of the five. Yes. The initiator, you hold your hand up, but the executor is the person who has to continue it in order for it to happen. Yeah. So, yeah, it's about the executor. The executor of the high five. Of the high five.

They get to decide. They get to decide. They decree what five just occurred. I don't know. How do you feel about that? I agree. I mean, I'm a big fan of orientation. I'm a big fan of rules for coming up with naming conventions.

So I feel like that works. I think that there are more types of high five than the simple down low, which is why I was thinking like the behind five. Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually, they wanted to know if you can do both at the same time. I guess that's if you're holding your, like, you know, the playground sort of hand clapping. Yeah.

Where you sort of, that you're basically doing a up high and a down low at the same time. At the same time. And then what you do is you sort of cross your palms. That's kind of a high five, even though it's horizontal. What if one person is doing a backflip? Mm-hmm. Right. And then what you do is you sort of cross your palms. That's kind of a high five, even though it's horizontal. What if one person is doing a backflip? And as they're moving, two different people high five them at different points in the rotation. And then they've executed.

Well, then everyone's moving now. I mean, I need what sort of somersault is this? Where are they high fiving? They're doing a backflip and they're keeping their hand fixed relative to their own body. Okay. So you're holding your hand as if you were doing a down low. Yep. And then I'm about to do a backflip.

So as I come up, it's going to go through the high-five orientation. Yep. It's going to rotate around to the top. Oh, goodness. Maybe I have to do it the other way around like this. Because then it'll come up into the high five orientation Oh okay so now Matt's changed it So that he's doing a high But with his hand down quite low

So then when I back flip Which just everyone is shooting this is what I'm doing I flip backwards This will rotate up into the high five location So I'm just standing there And I just high five it Now it's receding from you. I'm pushing you away.

Yeah, it's going to help me with the backflip. Yeah, but I'm more just sort of pushing. I'm not high-fiving you. Yeah, no. You're not going to get a huge amount of sound from it. No, no, no, no, no. Okay, maybe you'd have to do a front flip. I think it's the same problem.

It's going to be a very exotic situation where you're going to end up with multiple types of high-five in the one movement. I mean, I suppose it's a different name then isn't it that's just a trick shot yeah exactly yeah yeah okay i'm happy i'm happy with that convention i think if you can do if you're capable of doing a backflip while high-fiving in a weird position and the other person is also also executing the thing is if you do a backflip but the executor the executor of the five is just standing there and normally high-fiving they've just high-fived you yeah that's true that's just a high five exactly but if if you're both flipping so we're prepared to name that you cannot it's down to you it's down to you

so we're prepared to say you cannot have a hybrid high low five that from one person's point of view is a high five the other person's point of view is a low five because it's an asymmetric situation with the executor of the five names the high five correct okay yeah because if you went to give me a down low yep and i'm a child yeah and it's really high up for me to do that i've still got to swing my hand it's still a down low yeah still a down low yep got it wow i'm gonna give you a high ding and i'll give you a loading all right there you go from behind loading from behind that's uh That's, uh. That's, uh. Let's never use that sentence again.

Oh, gosh. I'm so sorry. Matt. Beck. You've got a dinglet or a winged in. Oh, yep. We still haven't decided. We haven't decided what it is.

Because I prefer saying dinglet. You like winged in. I really like wing ding Because you're a nerd It's the supporting ding Yeah Yeah So we have a

A smaller problem A min ding From Cal Cal Short for calculator I'm imagining Small name for a small problem Yep C-A-L

Yeah Or Calorie Or Calorie Who says We all know about seven segment displays, which can display any digit from zero to nine. We all know about that, Matt. We do all know about that.

All of us know about that. But. I think we all do. What is the minimum number of segments that could display readable digits? For instance, is there a configuration of six segments which could be arranged so as to produce readable digits? I'll be honest, I don't understand the question. So, the seven segment display.

You're using quotation marks as you say that. As you know, this whole thing, this is such a. As someone with resting sarcasm voice, the use of quotation marks. It's just too much? It's implied. Oh, right. Okay, good, good, good. The problem with this whole problem is it's implied all right okay good good the problem with this whole problem

is it's very visual okay the problem is visual my solutions are visual and the podcast is not the the medium for this problem however we do not shy away from a problem poser in need yeah and cal needs to know we don't shy away from problematic problems. We don't. No. We probably should. We slam into them and we make it work all the same. Yes.

So I apologize in advance to everyone listening. You're going to have to do some imagining and maybe some drawing. We'll put photos of these things on our Twitter and Instagram afterwards. But the classic seven segment display is like the figure of eight display that you see on watches, microwaves. Calculators. Calculators. That's why it's from Cal. That's why it's from Cal.

Yeah. VCRs for our old listeners. And I'm actually going to draw one. I know it's not going to help everyone listening along, but it will us here. So I'm going to draw. Actually, Beck,'s not going to help everyone listening along But it will us here So I'm going to draw Actually Beck you're going to kind of be a good You know listener advocate So I'm going to draw like a box

Yeah Which is four lines And then I'm going to draw the three underneath To make it like two boxes stacked Yeah And that's an eight Yes And you can make every number

By turning on or off these different segments Yes and I know that Because I have drawn silly cartoons And you can make every number by turning on or off these different segments. Yes. And I know that because I have drawn silly cartoons with digital. Yeah. Like an alarm clock. So I've drawn it the same. Yeah. So I actually do.

I am aware of this one. See? But I don't think I ever thought of it in terms of turning off a line or on a line. Oh, okay. But I get that now. Yeah. It's just like that electronic display, you know, typeface. Yeah.

But to make this work, you have to have seven things you can turn on or off to make every single, which is good. Seven is good. Oh, so that's what they mean by seven lines. That's what they mean by seven segment display. Okay. There are seven lines. So not everyone knows about it.

When they said that, I genuinely thought it meant like you have up to seven spaces. Ah, it's like seven digits. Yeah. No, the seven segments are the lines that turn on or off. And when they said readable, I was like, oh, like writing eggshell. But I'm starting to realize that's not what they meant either. No, by readable, basically I'm going to take that to mean you glance at it and you can read what the number is.

Okay. So they mean to be able to tell what number you've got up. Yeah. Some numbers are super obvious, so I'm going to do the one. A one is just two lines, one above each other, and that's obviously a one. For the record, so what number is this? I'm drawing one here.

Matt, you've done a two. Correct. With five lines. That doesn't look much like a two. That's a two. Yeah, I guess to me I, you've done a two. Correct. With five lines. That doesn't look much like a two. That's a two. Yeah, I guess to me I think of it as a two. We're so used to it. Yeah.

So readable, we are actually so familiar with this being a two that we don't bat an eye. But actually it looks nothing like how we'd write a two. Because you could make it look more like a two, but you'd need more segments. Which is all rounded and stuff. Yeah. And the thing is I know on some, I'm guessing it's LED,

where it's bright red, it's very bright, and you could look at the display on the calculator at night. Oh, it'd be like an LED one, yeah. Or a green one. A calculating in the dark, yeah. Yeah. I've got one. But do you know, yeah.

My FX39. My grandpa had one, and I remember I used to play with it all the time because it had a light like it lit up and that was so exciting not the back not the screen no no it's the lines yeah with lcd you need to either be backlit or just be an ambient light yes now that that one i remember had diagonals yes so that would have been even more segments so this one i've just drawn here now it's more complex now it's an eight segment display we had to add an extra and the diagonals mean you can do all like

letters of the alphabet you can do better looking digits yes you need more sections and so there's constant balance between the simplicity of having fewer segments that turn on and off and how readable it is yeah do you have a? What year is the earliest use of the classic seven-segment figure of eight, let's call it that, displays? Oh, okay. Now, I mean, initially your mind goes to digital display, but actually then I'm thinking of the click, click, click, click, click, click things that you get at airports. Oh, yeah, the old ones like train stations and airports. Yeah. Actually, then I'm thinking of the clickety-click-click-click-click things

that you get at airports. Oh, yeah, the old ones like train stations and airports. Yeah, not like it's where it's a whole flap. The flappy ones, yeah. But where it is the individual sections. And I imagine they probably predate the digital display, even though it's the same thing. An even more different use.

Oh, okay Was it for numbers? It was for numbers and generalised to letters But for numbers they did seven segment Anything to do with travel? No The year was 1903 Oh my goodness

No, I wouldn't have gone back that far I don't think The answer is normally either 1970 or 1840. Yeah, or like 1200. Before Christ, yeah. So I have right here. Moses' tablets were an early form of facts. I have here a patent that was applied for in 1903,

granted in 1915 for a way to- You've gone all out with your displays recently, Matt. Thank you. My props are on point. We have swapped. Puns, props. Puns, props. And you did the calculation last episode.

You don't even need me anymore. That's so not true. Okay, so this prop is the patent applied by a C. Kinsley who came up with the idea to simplify data sent by telegraph. So it's like a weird cross, like a visual form of binary like data compression. And you can see here they've done the digits in the standard

seven-segment display. Wow, look at that. Yep. And the idea was instead of sending the whole number or whatever, and you can see here they've done the digits in the standard seven segment display yep and the idea was instead of sending the whole number or whatever you can just send which segments have to be turned on or off in fact you could rig up the telegraph to basically do it automatically and so they've got their diagrams for how you turn the segments on and off remotely yes if you want to look it up on google patents it's it's patent number 1126641. That's where you need to find it. Yeah, so it goes way back. It's been independently discovered several times, apparently, this display using seven segments.

The question is, could we do it in fewer? And so I thought, I wonder if I can come up with a six-segment display. Would you like to see my six-segment display? Of course I would. So I'm going to sketch it out for you. We'll put this, we'll share this afterwards, obviously, if people want to see it. I think this works as a six-segment display.

Ready? One, two, three, four. So Matt has just drawn four diagonals. In a diamond. Yep. Yeah. In a diamond shape. I'm now going to draw the horizontal line in.

That's a zero at the moment. Now you've put a line through the middle. That makes an eight. Yep. And it's currently a five segment display. Yep. Six. Done.

And then he's just put one final line up the center. Only the bottom half. Some displays have all sorts of crazy shapes for the lines and segments. just put one final line up the center. Only the bottom half. Some displays have all sorts of crazy shapes for the lines and segments. And so there's a T inside a diamond on the bottom, kind of the bottom half of the diamond. Yeah. Which means one's pretty straightforward, one.

And for one, you've just, that's your one horizontal line that would normally be in the bottom half of your space. Yeah, because there's one vertical line. And so that is one. Two comes down there, over there, down there. That's a two. So Matt's just done a diagonal going down towards the right. So imagine a diamond with a line through the center and then... It's not that bad.

Okay. It sort of looks like a lightning strike. I'll draw the rest in and you can just give me any any thoughts you have as i go along four five i've got to say while matt draws these seven this looks like a pretty cool font that i would draw on my desk in eight nine this is very satisfying zero i would actually argue that these look better than. They've got a certain 80s or 90s kind of jagged. They've got a sort of Metallica. Yes. That's what it looks like.

The font for Metallica. So that's, I've not drawn that particularly well, but we'll. That's because it's got a sort of runes feel around it as well. It's got a runes feel. Yes. Yeah. Now you put your finger on it. I ran out of space towards the end.

So the eight, nine and zero are kind of squeezed in. But you get the idea. Yeah. Would you, just on behalf of all listeners, given you can see them, would you accept that as the digits one through zero? I would. Yeah. I think it takes you a second to realize.

Yeah. I think you would catch on quite quickly. Cal's question though. Oh, and it was a fun challenge, by the way. And I had a few other attempts that weren't quite as good. This was my best. If people give it a go, see if you can come up with a six-segment display which gives you readable all ten digits.

I've got an option in case anyone has an issue with the half line. Oh, really? What's your option? I would have the half line on the side of your diamond oh so that it's matching up with that corner rather than meeting in the middle of a single line for this one i've stuck to straight lines but actually you can do all sorts of crazy shapes that turn on or off as long as they come all on and all off at once and i've gone with they can't cross each other because the way that you either turn on the whole shape

or you turn off the whole shape. If they cross, then you've got to turn the middle bit on and off for different bits. But Cal's question was a two-parter. They both wanted to know, could you do it with six segments? I mean, I'm biased, but I think that's a winner. And they want to know, what's the minimum number of segments. So the question now is, how few could you go?

And there is an absolute limit. You cannot do it with three. Because if you've only got three things you can turn on or off, two options for the first one on or off, two options for the second one on or off, two options for the third one on or off, two times two times two is eight. There are only eight different combinations of turning three one on or off two options for the third one on or off two times two times two is eight there are only eight different combinations of turning three things on or off and you need 10 10 digits yeah so you can't do a three four you can do okay so four is the absolute minimum so i thought i would see if i could get four which is a big old reduction on six so well okay so do you want to see the whole display first or

you just want to see an individual digit i want to see an individual digit okay i'm going to give you what i think might be the weakest one yeah okay and if i can get that then it's a testament exactly yeah so matt's drawn a circle there's a big space and then a semicircle. Yeah. I mean, at the moment, this just looks like a picture of someone with one eyebrow raised. Because you have two next to each other. Oh, this is a, I mean, this is very tricky. I can't. It's not, it's not, it's, it's the weakest of the gang. Well, it's not zero because that would just be a circle.

I'm going to say six. It's not six. It's three. Yeah. No. Okay. Here we go. And let's see if I can think of a better way of doing three.

If you could crack a better three, I'd really appreciate that. Okay. So here's my shape. It looks like a percent symbol. So it's a diagonal line. Yep. It's a circle at the bottom. And it's a circle at the top.

But the circle at the top is split in half. So you can turn each half on and off separately. Yeah. Which means that one is just the diagonal line. And when you say it's at the top, it's actually not like equally distant from the other little circle. It's slightly higher. There's a lot of like design finessing you can do to optimize the layout. Because actually, if you look at the seven

segment displays often they're italics because it looks better if they're all all the lines are slightly angled over and so with the uh the telegraph one you were showing me with the letters they started to take up another space next to it obviously you can't do that when it comes to numbers because no to do calculations it needs to know the distance. You only get one zone for each one. One is just the diagonal line. Two is like the hat and then down. So top semicircle.

Three is the weak one. That's three. Your two looks a lot like a seven. In fact, arguably it looks more like a seven. Well, wait till you see seven. So two has the top half of the top circle. Seven has the bottom half. I think there are too many numbers here that look like a different number or don't look like a number at all for this to pass.

You reckon? Yeah, I really want to go over that. I'm sure you do. I really want to. Yeah, you really do. Hey, again, put it up on socials. We'll see what people say. Then everyone will agree with you.

And I think we should encourage other people to send one. Oh, do. Have a go. You know 100%. I've got so much work to do right now, Matt, and you know a huge amount of my time is going to be spent working on this now. The conscious decision to not tell you about this. But you and everyone can have a go and see if you can come up

with a better four-segment display. And no matter what you do, I mean, maybe people will crack it. There's got to be a compromise. And as long as they're distinct and you learn them, but there's a barrier to entry to read these digits. It would, you'd need to kind of get used to them, which I think is true of the normal ones, but there's definitely a lot more effort to, to decode these.

You're on. I've got this. Okay. I believe in you. Well, Matt, you did it with six. Yes. Which is one less than the one we've got now. Thank you.

I'll be honest. I haven't researched. I don't know if anyone else has. Oh, yeah. Other people have definitely done six segments. Still impressed. Yeah. But Cal's question was, what is the minimum amount?

Now, you've said the minimum amount is four. Yet, they did say it has to be readable. Correct. I'm not entirely sure if this is readable. Look at all that readability so um i think until we can prove this right i'm going to give you a tentative ding i'll take that tentative ding which i guess is ding question mark thank you everyone check it out sorry this has been so visual we'll put them all online check them out voice your opinion and now it's time for any other beesness which i think actually we should call any other cheeseness oh yeah having looked at also i just want to say how exciting

that was that you you you set it up at the beginning of the episode. Yep. And now you've just done it. And we're here. You did the joke. Well done, listeners. We made it. Wasn't it worth the journey? But it should be called any other cheeseness. You're right.

Sadly, I've realized. I was like, no, the one time I had a special name for it, it's actually any other cheeseness. Because, oh, boy. Oh, people have sent in some cheese opinions. Oh boy Did you guys Oh people have sent in Some cheese opinions

We've had Crafty Grammararian Which is At Platinum Underscore West On Twitter Yeah Said regarding

At Stand Up Math That's you Matt That's me Not understanding the moon Being made of cheese And it's not that you didn't understand It's just you weren't sure Where it came from

I don't get it Well I didn't get it I was like it doesn't look like cheese Yeah And they said Please keep in mind That although today We think of cheese Looking like an orange rectangle we do by the way i just want to

say that not i not until i moved to the uk had i ever seen bright orange cheese and then i was like oh red yellow rectangle is what i would yeah cuboid yellow cuboid yeah um although you get baby bells that's true that's true imagine That's true. Imagine if baby bells were cubish. Gross. Please keep in mind that although today we think of cheese looking like an orange rectangle, before the invention of food dye and refrigeration, cheese was an off-white circle. And they've attached a picture of an off-white circle of cheese.

You know what? Looks like the moon. It does look like the moon. Yep. You know what? Looks like the moon. It does look like the moon. Yeah.

There were actually, you know, as feta, like the way that some cheeses are made, they can come out cubish. Oh, yeah, I guess so. But that's a wheel of cheese and it's moon textured. Yeah. And we also had at yelling at soccer. Or Kevin. Kevin, yep.

He said, I'd like to put forth that Mimolette is the most moon-like cheese. And this is not like a wheel of cheese. This is like a sphere. A spheroid of cheese. A sphere of cheese. It is an orange cheese, funnily enough. Well, only on the inside. On the inside, but the rind. If it wasn't cut open, it looks like a lunar surface.

Yeah, that's a moon. Yeah. We know the real moon is hollow and filled with lizard people. Yes. But. I mean, if there's anyone else that wants to suggest the most moonish cheese. The most lunar cheese. Then you know where to send your.

Yeah. Yeah. You know how to tweet you. Yeah. Yeah. You know how to tweet us. Right to us. Semi-related on Instagram, Steffa B. Oh, B. Wow. B.

On brand. Didn't even know it. Who I believe is the legal guardian of long-time featured listener Dexter. Dexter, who was a child, by the way, people, new listeners, wanted to know, would the moon have a cheese fondue core? Because I guess the center of the earth is molten Yeah, so is the center of the moon Melted cheese

I don't know I don't know either So I thought, given I'm married to an astrophysicist I would give her a call and find out. So Matt is literally calling his wife right now. Yeah. Is Lucy at work right now? No, she's, well, she is, but she's at home.

She's working at home with some of her, her colleagues are over. They're all working from home at our place. We're in my office, so we're not, there we go. Hello, you. Hey, we're just in the recording here. Yeah. And we had a question from a listener. You're on the air, Lucy.

You're on the air. Keep your curse words to a minimum. Yeah. So, sorry to interrupt. I know you're all working very hard there. We have a lunar question about the moon. Yeah. We were talking about the moon being cheese,

and a listener wanted to know, would the moon have a molten fondue centre if it was cheese? Ah, is it hot in the centre? Is it hot in the centre? So I don't think it's hot in the centre. I think it's small enough that it is fully cooled. And if it was hot in the centre, it would probably have some like plate tectonics.

Right. As a result of that. And there's no tectonics? Not that I remember reading about. So there are, I mean, obviously there are features on the surface of the moon. I have a vague memory that there are some sort of, you know, large structures that maybe were formed by cracks in the surface. But I don't think, and there are moonquakes.

Oh. Yeah. What causes the moonquakes if it's not giant worms? Giant worms. Lizard people. We've been through this. So maybe that's something to do with, you know, gravitational interaction between the Earth.

It could be tidal squeezing or something. Yeah, maybe. To be fair, Lucy, I suggested that we Google this. Matt wanted to put you on the spot. I was like, nah. I'm an expert, and this expert doesn't know. You don't have an astrophysicist around and Google science space questions, honestly. Okay.

No, I'm not Googling right now. So true. Okay, so we're going to go with no. To be fair, Lucy, you specialize in like the sun and stars, don't you? Yeah, I don't know anything about like rocky objects. It's in space. Well, it's too close. It's too close. It's too close.

It's not hot enough for me. Got it. Okay, excellent. So that's a no on the fondue. All right, I'll let you get back to your actual job. All right. Bye. I love you.

No, you hang up. I hung up. Okay. So, CY Dexter, I think the answer is no. It would be solid cheese right to the center. Yeah, I'm still going to Google it. And a reminder that we are going to be doing a Problem Squared at Blue Dot for our first. It's a festival.

First show recorded in front of a live audience. So if you're going along and you would like us to solve your problem live on stage, then please send us your problem in advance to the problem posing page. That's a problem squared.com and pop blue dot either with a space or without in there. And we will maybe pick it. We'll give it a go. As one to answer. You can tweet us as well, but we tend to.

We lose tweets. Yeah, we do. We tend to miss them sometimes. Thank you to everyone who's been sharing this podcast with their friends, family, colleagues, et cetera, and leaving us reviews. Yes. On various podcast platforms. Yeah, especially the five-star ones.

We love those. Five stars, good number of stars. Yeah, thank you. And we read all of them, so I hope you feel seen. And thank you to our Patreon supporters who make this whole enterprise possible. As always, we're going to thank three of them picked at random who are. Well, I think you go the first one this time, Matt, because last time. No, no, no.

I still lead into it. No, no, no. Last time you made me. I looked at it again in the first and the last one. You just slid it over to me. I did. Okay. Thanks to Moritz Kirchner.

Look, we really appreciate it. I'm sorry. I can't pronounce your name correctly. San. S-A-N-N-E. Sana? Sana. Sana? Sana? Is it from Denmark?

Sana. I don't know. I'm guessing. San? Wow. Could be short for It's Anne. And. San.

San. And Christopher Barber. I think that's right. Yeah, that looks right. I feel like I should mispronounce and cry. Stop her. Barb. R.

There we are. It's equal mispronunciation. Everyone gets their names wrong. I think that should be a new feature. We're just going to mispronounce everybody's name. That sounds fair. I tell you what, if you want to play a prank on us, join as a Patreon supporter and enter a really hard to read name.

Go all out. We are UTF-8 compliant, so go nuts with those characters. You've been listening to A Problem Squared with myself, Matt Parker, and Bec Hill, and the producer is Queen Bee, Lauren Armstrong Carter. The final Bee reference. That is. Thank you.

What a journey. Ah. um i mean we don't know you and i know what your card is it's awkward am i supposed to i don't know this is like the podcast version of when you say goodbye to someone and then you walk in the same direction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We should,

um, yeah, we should, we should work something out for this. Oh boy.