All About Change - Octavia Spencer - A Catalyst for Change in Hollywood

Episode Date: September 3, 2024

Octavia Spencer is an Academy Award and Golden Globe award-winning actor and film producer, but her story has many different turns. Octavia thought studying law would be her path to change the world. But when a movie started production in her hometown of Montgomery, Alabama, her persistence landed her an internship that set her on a path to a successful career in Hollywood. Octavia joined host Jay Ruderman to talk about her inspiration to become an actor and producer, as well as the challenges she has faced as a Black woman in the entertainment industry. Octavia also shares her passion for giving back through her involvement with City Year Los Angeles, an organization that focuses on using the power of education to lift historically underrepresented groups out of poverty. Jay and Octavia also get into why, in spite of success as an actor, she evolved into an actor and producer and is driven by her desire to create authentic narratives and provide opportunities for Black and underrepresented groups in Hollywood.   Episode Chapters (00:00) Introduction (03:25) Octavia's Early Life and Career (06:44) Breaking into Hollywood (14:00) Challenges and Triumphs in Hollywood (18:32) ‘The Help’ and Other Iconic Roles (28:13) Passion for Education: City Year and Giving Back (30:18) Becoming a Producer (35:10) Future Aspirations and Final Thoughts (38:27) Conclusion and Credits   For video episodes, watch on www.youtube.com/@therudermanfamilyfoundation Stay in touch: X: @JayRuderman | @RudermanFdn LinkedIn: Jay Ruderman | Ruderman Family Foundation Instagram: All About Change Podcast | Ruderman Family Foundation To learn more about the podcast, visit https://allaboutchangepodcast.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I don't think that there's ever a time in my life where I walk outside and the world is just homogenous in any way. There is always a variety of people, people from all walks of life, all religions, all body types. And this fantasy that everyone is 18 to 30 and fit and, you know, stunningly beautiful is ridiculous. So is Hollywood there? No, Hollywood is not there.

Hollywood is not there yet, but we have definitely made strides. Hi, I'm Jay Ruderman and welcome to All About Change, a podcast showcasing individuals who leverage the hardships that have been thrown at them to better other people's lives. I say put mental health first because if you don't... This generation of Americans has already had enough. I stand before you not as an expert, but as a concerned citizen. Yes, we can! Yes, we can!

When Octavia Spencer lost her mom, she felt that she'd have to work extremely hard to accomplish all that her mother had dreamed she would. I realized after my mom passed away that I was responsible for my life path, that there were always going to be no's. But if I wanted anything, that I'd have to be tenacious, that I'd have to be persistent.

Octavia followed her dream and decided to pursue a career in acting. As a black woman, that path required more work and grit than it might have. You're gonna have to fight tooth and nail, and that's just not for black women, for sure for minority women, but women in general. We usually play that supporting character to a male lead. For women of color, Black, Latino, Asian, we usually facilitate the white narrative,

the friend of. And what I would say to anyone who is good at writing, or if you're not good at writing, find your tribe of people who write, who have the same interests, and utilize each other's talents to further your careers. Through years of working in the industry, Octavia realized that she could affect more change behind the camera, on the production side of Hollywood. Rather than wait for studios to think I'm worthy, small enough, thin enough, pretty

enough, I am just banking on myself and creating the roles that I would like to play. The most important role that I play now is that of a producer to provide those opportunities not just for me but for other people who are already going to have a hard time seeing their dreams realized. Octavia's persistence has not only allowed her to achieve her dreams but to use her position to help open doors to other underrepresented groups in the industry. So Octavia Spencer, thank you so much for being my guest on All About Change. I'm really looking forward to our conversation. I'm excited to be talking to you, Jay. So thank you for having me. So let's start at the beginning. You grew up in Montgomery, Alabama. You attended

Auburn University, which I know you're very proud of that. And initially my understanding is that you considered a career in the law but ultimately gravitated towards acting. Can you talk about that process and how you ended up focusing on acting? It's funny. I think I've always had an affinity for the law and I don't know why. It just seems very natural to me. Before I could afford attorneys, I would read everything myself and, you know, as an actor. But early on, I just felt that as much as an education was integral to one's success, understanding the rule of law and understanding the letter of the law was also important. And then I realized I was in the minority there.

Not everybody had those interests. And I think also, my mom died when I was 17. So it was likely me wanting to fulfill her dreams for me and her desires for me. But I, at a young age, I can't remember, I want to say it was the Academy Awards, but I remember watching a clip on the evening news and the people were all dressed and sparkly and beautiful and poised and regal and they were receiving awards. And I remember asking my mom a lot of questions about how did they get the awards and what did they do for a living that prompted them to be at that award ceremony.

And I was entranced. And so that was imprinted on my DNA just as much as procedurals. Even as a kid, I would stay up late at night watching law shows and cop shows and all of that. For me, the evolution happened after my mother passed away. When I enrolled at Auburn, I enrolled as a liberal arts English major because most lawyers do English because you're going to be writing so many briefs and then you go on to law school to get your JD. And so that was my plan to go to law school after Auburn.

But while I was at Auburn, I was drawn to the theater because I had a double minor in theater arts and journalism. And I just couldn't get the arts or theater out of my blood. And so I just decided that I needed to pursue my own dreams. And as futile as it might have seemed, you know, a young girl from Montgomery, Alabama going on to pursue acting in California, I knew that that's what I wanted to do. So I left that all behind and thought, well, one day maybe I'll play a lawyer. And my understanding is that you were very, very tenacious. And can you talk a little bit about breaking into the system as a young black woman who didn't have a lot of connections in Hollywood?

Can you talk about some of the obstacles that you faced and how you overcame them? I will definitely tell you, I recently received a lifetime achievement award from Trinity Rep at Brown. And I had to think about my life and, you know, a few years ago, I received a lifetime achievement award from Auburn. And it's so funny when you sit and reflect on where you are and how you got there, the journey. For me, it was strange because I've never taken no for the final answer. I realized early on that I, after my mom passed away, and that I was responsible for my life path, that there were always going to be no's, but if I wanted anything, that I'd have to be tenacious, that I'd have to

be persistent. And I think back now, I think this was a God wing, what I consider a God wing. Whoopi Goldberg and Sissy Spacek did a movie in my hometown called The Long Walk Home. And I had just graduated high school when the production offices set up. And when I called every single day to try to get to work there, and when I tell you every day, I mean every day, when I found that phone number, which they mistakenly, I think, printed in the paper. And then I started looking to see where the offices were. When I found the offices, I drove there every single day to get them to hire me. I finally got a job as an intern in the extras casting office.

That's where my journey began. It was the best way, it's like working in the mail room. It was the best way for me's like working in the mail room. It was the best way for me to learn to get set skills and then utilize those because I use those now as an actor, as a producer to commune with my crew. My job as a producer is not only to make sure the material is up to my standards. But once we're on the set, I produce the crew. I show up every day prepared.

I make sure that we don't keep them as long as, you know what I mean? If I'm not prepared, then it impacts the day. And then I also reward our crew. So I produce the crew, I produce the people. And I learned how to do that by starting in the film industry mail room, basically, you know, working in actress casting. But there were no connections prior to that. I mean, Whoopi Goldberg, and what she did was

remind me of a promise that I made to my mom to graduate college because after that film was over, I was ready to move to Los Angeles. Like I was still 17. And she reminded me that I had made a promise to get my degree, whether in law or film. And she reminded me that Hollywood would always be there. And so that was a huge God wink, I think that this movie came to my hometown and I didn't know they did that, that they filmed all over the place on location. Meeting Whoopi, she was one of my favorite actresses and so was Sissy Spasik. The people that I got to meet working on the film, both in front of and behind the scenes, I feel really had

an impact on my very impressionable 17-year-old mind. But tenacity, definitely. If I listened to the nos that I received every single day, I would not have embarked on that journey, I don't think. And your first film, A Time to Kill, you were tenacious in getting that role. Can you talk about how you landed that role? It's very funny. I, again, I was working in the extras casting office because now I had built a tiny little resume and most of the directors that I had worked with in helping do location casting my

the casting director that I worked with she sometimes did location casting and the extras and when she did the location casting, I would help out in the auditions. And nearly all of the directors that she'd worked with, there would be a role with one or two lines and they'd say, I'd like someone with personality, you know, like Octavia. And then the light would come on, oh, you should read for the role. And I would stick to, no, no, no,

I'm not an actor, but thank you. And somehow when I worked on A Time to Kill, it was one of those books that I loved and it was Sam Jackson, Sandy Bullock, and Matthew McConaughey. I was hoping that Joel Schumacher would say, that Joel Schumacher would say, Octavia, you should read for a role. And he did not. I pursued that. And rather than it be given to me, I had to audition.

And it was basically eight words, wait, innocent, innocent, we, innocent, innocent, we won, we won, six words. And it was Sandra Bullock's nurse in the film. And I actually wanted to audition for this woman who had one line, and I can't remember what that line was, but she started this riot. And Joel Schumacher said, no, no, no, no, your face is too sweet. You should be Sandy's nurse." So they brought the sides for me to read. And I had been...

Mally Finn was the casting director on that, and I had been working with Mally. And I auditioned, and they gave me the role. And we filmed it the last day of shooting. -♪ Hey, Mally Finn! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! And they gave me like this great trailer, all of these things. It was really sweet, but I definitely pursued that because I was ready, I think, to take the leap and I was counting on the fact that I would get that role. And thank you, Joel Schumacher. May you rest in peace for launching my career. Octavia, do you think that there are obstacles for women of color to not only become actors, but also to become directors and producers?

Do you see that in today's Hollywood? I think in order to become an actor, you just do it. Now are there going to be roles where one could have a varied career? No, there aren't. You're going to have to fight tooth and nail. And that's just not for Black women, for sure for minority women, but women in general. We usually play that supporting character to a male lead. For women of color, Black, Latino, Asian, we usually facilitate the white narrative, the friend of. And what I would say to anyone who is good at writing, or if you're not good at writing,

find your tribe of people who write, who have the same interests and utilize each other's talents to further your careers. There are always going to be obstacles. There are still obstacles for me now having won an Academy Award and total of three nominations. I still have limitations and obstacles. But I decided that where I am now, I have the luxury, the privilege to develop things. And so rather than wait for studios to think I'm worthy, small enough, thin enough, pretty enough, I am just banking on myself and creating the roles that I would like to play. The most important role that I play now is that of a producer to provide those opportunities not just for

me but for other people who are already going to have a hard time. Seeing their dreams realized. So yes, there were obstacles. There are still obstacles. There will be obstacles. If you want to act, you must first train and then you do it. Whether it's in musical theater in your hometown, once you get your land legs, then you break out and you try Los Angeles or a bigger market. Because you don't have to come to Los Angeles to be successful if you live in Georgia, if you live in New Orleans, if you live in a place that has a lot of filming done there. So yes, I'm sorry, I'm very long-winded.

I'm sorry. No, no, that's good. Do you feel that there's more of an understanding in the industry of the need for authentic portrayal of roles, whether that be people of color or based on sexual orientation or disability. Do you think that there's more of an appreciation that different types of actors

can actually participate in the industry. I believe that should be a core belief, that we should see society represented in film. What I don't believe is that we should compromise artistic integrity. One of the things that I love about you when I met you is that we met through Peter Farrelly because you believe in having the visibility of people who are disabled in the film industry and film and television. I also believe that. And I don't think that there's ever a time in my life where I walk outside and the world is just homogenous in

any way. There is always a variety of people, people from all walks of life, all religions, all body types. And this fantasy that everyone is 18 to 30 and fit and stunningly beautiful is ridiculous. So is Hollywood there? No, Hollywood is not there. Hollywood is not there yet. But we have definitely made strides. Why do I say that? Because I am where I am.

And I know a lot of people who don't resemble that cookie cutter image have also been quite successful but we have a long way to go right so what do you think about the help to help covers a pivotal time in american history what drew you to the project and. Do you think it was important to play roles of characters who traditionally were silenced in our history? I became a part of the help because Katherine Stockett was Tate Taylor's best friend. And Tate and I were roommates at the time. And she wrote a character based on one interaction with me. Basically, Minnie had my appearance and she had my bump personality because she met me when I was dieting. We were doing a walking tour in August in New Orleans and I was just not having it. And so my physical appearance

and the bombastic personality that I possess at certain times. Minnie! Miss Elia! Minnie, hey, stop! Miss Elia! Minnie! Say that again!

I'm not here to hurt you! Girl! You wanna put the stick down? Uh-uh. Listen, Lucille, you finally told me about the babies. All of them. But I also know the minute you started working here, she started getting better.

So you saved her life. You knew I was here the whole time? This fried chicken and okra on the first night? I mean, y'all could have at least put some corn foam on the table. No. I couldn't let you eat no more corn though, Mr. Johnny. Well, thanks to you now I've had to let out every pair of pants I own. No, no, just leave that. I'm going to go. Let's head on up the house. Is who Minnie? It was the Genesis of Minnie.

And when she told me that, because I had met her, and then like seven years later, I think, she asked me to read the book. And when I read the book, I loved the fact that she highlighted the people who were normally invisible. So I know that there are people in Hollywood who were fatigued by characters who were in

subjugated roles, especially black women, black people. For me though, these characters represent people who are still, and they don't have to be black. They are still integral to our society. And to portray any person whose voice is silenced in any way was a dream for me. So I know it's controversial for people, but for me, I was honored to play many. I was honored to play a woman who represented so many women who came before me and so many women who still carry that role in our society. How many people still have, they may not be maids, but they're nannies or they're cleaning ladies

and they facilitate all of our lives and they have great value and importance. So that role definitely is how people came to know me, but I was working, you know, doing, you know, gig-a-day jobs in Hollywood for 15 years prior. So that movie sort of changed your life and you've gone on to win or be nominated for consecutive Academy Award nominations for Hidden Figures and The Shape of Water.

And these films are very, very different, but they both showcase women of strength and resilience. Can you talk about the preparation process for these roles and what drew you to them? It's strange. For Hidden Figures, I had, well I can't say had just done the help, it was a few years after the help, quite a few. And I thought because the help was historical fiction that these women, these black women who were part of the space program, who helped get our astronauts into space and who were integral to the space program, the space race, surely we would have

learned about them in school. So I assumed it was historical fiction. And as I, when I met with Donna Jaloti and realized that these women actually existed and that they were called computers because they computed the math, I was mesmerized and also, again, honored to play women who basically had no agency in society, because I think at that time, Black women weren't even allowed to vote. Black people weren't even allowed to vote. And that they had so much power in their own lives and agency in their own lives, but not society. own lives and agency in their own lives, but not society. And so I would prepare for any character from history because that time existed before me. I'm a product of the 70s and 80s.

And I would always prepare by watching this documentary called Eyes on the Prize, and it's a civil rights era because it was a part of America that I didn't know, and I had to make sure that there were no anachronisms in my portrayal of these women. So the strength, I think, that you see or that these characters exude came from the fact that they had no agency in society. Many had no agency in society. Dorothy Vaughan had no agency within society, but they were pillars of strength within their communities, within the black community. So I found that fascinating. I also found it liberating. And my prep work usually began with a historical lesson. And also portraying Madam CJ Walker,

who was the first self-made black female millionaire in America. It's a series on Netflix and I really enjoyed it. But what did you find inspiring about that and what challenges did you face bringing her story to life? We grew up knowing about Madam CJ. We were taught about her from our mom as she was a standard bearer. And it's so strange. I think Madam CJ died maybe 70 years on the exact day that I was born. And I didn't realize

that until doing research for the role. But again, I didn't know it as a child, but we had very similar ideology, I think. The tenacity, the work ethic, the idea or understanding that we are the masters of our fate. No one else can dictate your path in life. And it was one of the things that I love. It is one of the things that I love about Madame CJ and what she was able to accomplish at a time when Black women, she was basically the first generation to not be born a slave. And what she did during the reconstruction period is a marvel, and it's still a marvel. I'm still humbled by what she was able to achieve. I think it's one

of the things because we had no money. We were poor. And it was one of the tenets, I think, of how we were reared. My mom would always tell us, if we dream it, we can be it. And that was what Madam did. She dreamed it for herself, and she actualized it for herself. And that has always been a part of my upbringing, and it's foundational for me. And so I was very honored to play Madame CJ. Well, all of these roles that we've discussed, you know, have been, I mean, you bring a very personal element to the roles that just draws the audience in.

And I think they take something, at least I take something away from it. I learn from these movies. They're not only enjoyable, but I take something away and I love watching them over and over again. Octavia, I want to talk to you about one of your passions, City Year in Los Angeles. I understand that approximately a million students drop out of school every year in our country. And you've been a longtime board member of City Year Los Angeles. Why are you passionate about this organization and their mission?

I am passionate about City Year. I sit on the board of City Year Los Angeles. Education was the key out of poverty for me and my siblings. And man, I wish that City Year had been around then, but I did okay. Their goal and their mission statement is to graduate as many children in the Los Angeles area who are in neighborhoods and communities that are underrepresented that have a high volume of dropouts. And I came to City Year via Stacey Snyder, Leslie Feldman, and Chip Sullivan. It's been 14 years now. I went to a City Year event when we started promoting the help and it struck a chord because I knew that education has always been the key that unlocks all of life's doors.

It has been for me. And so I wanted to make sure that I, since Los Angeles had become my home, that I was a part of furthering that goal for children in the Los Angeles area. Now, I would like to get a chapter in my home state of Alabama, where I grew up, because I think the work that our core members do to tutor these kids and how effective they are has been beautiful to watch and one of the things that I'm most proud

of that I get to be a part of. I wanted to transition to you becoming a producer and what motivated you to, you're still an actress and you're very busy in what you do as an actress, but why did you want to open a production company? I actually wanted to be a producer before I wanted to be an actor. I wanted to be a producer more than an actor. I like the idea of the germ of an idea

and then bringing it to a full script and full production. And I didn't know when I was actually learning about acting that that's what the job was called, producer. What do they do? They put the projects together. But I love acting. And I think what I learned, I was optioning books 25 years ago. And I think I always knew that this was a transition that I would make. But for me, it was born out of the lack of roles,

the lack of roles that I felt that would challenge me to get out of my comfort zone. The way to do that, I think, is to not allow other people to give you a perspective of who you are. It's for you to declare who you are. And I think for me, finding those roles that are different from the archetypes that I've usually played, the only person who was interested in doing that was me.

Because people would like to see you in a way. That was the genesis of it. Can you talk about how you named your company Orit? I named my company Orit. I was working as an intern for one of the most talented and generous casting directors in the business, Francine Masler. And upon meeting me, maybe five seconds, Octavia, Francine, Francine, Octavia, Octavia, you're

going to sit here. And it was at the front of the office. We open all of our submissions. So all the mail that comes in, you open everything and you pull out the headshot. Okay. And maybe 30 minutes in, and Francine also had, there were two other assistants in the front office, and she had two associates that had their own offices, but in the main room, the room I was in, I was the first face you'd see when you walked through the door and there were two assistant desks there.

And I didn't remember anybody's name. About 30 minutes later, I hear, Orit, can you get such and such on the phone? And I'm just busy opening the packages. That was my job. Maybe 45 minutes after that, I hear, Orit, I'm going to need you to make copies of this script and distribute it. I'm busy opening the mail. Now, keep in mind, this is about half the day before lunch. And one of the assistants leaned in and she said, I think you're Oreet. So I thought, oh my God, she thinks I'm ignoring her. And it's one of those things that we still laugh about. And I told her, Oit's going to be my alter ego. And she told me, Octavia,

I'm sorry, I forgot your name, but one day everybody will know it. And it was so sweet. And I later learned that Orit is Hebrew for light. So it was kind of meant to be, while I'm attracted to variety of stories, hope must be a common thread. And I view hope as the light at the end of the tunnel. So orit means light. And that's what we hope that our projects will bring in the end. That's beautiful. Thank you. Well, I'm impressed that it's not only sort of something that you do because you feel you have to do, but you feel passionate about it, and you're thinking about the next step

of where it could go and how it could help communities that you're intimately attached to and come from. So let me first, I guess that's my final question. Is there any particular role that you haven't played that you're like, I'd always like, I've always wanted to play this role? There are so many roles that I haven't played. I think for me, as long as it's a character, that I have never, the type of character, like everybody wants me to be the doting,

now these days, grandmother, or mother, or the sweet friend who does such and such. There's that archetype of the nurturer. I'm a nurturing person. I think the majority of the people I know are nurturers. But I like the idea of, you know, playing a narcissist one day or playing a sociopath one day or playing things that are against type. So for me, it would be something against type, continuing to play someone that I have to build a character that I have to get to know. Playing God was something really unique and beautiful and wonderful, because it wasn't anything that I understood. At first,

when I got the role, I thought, oh, this is going to be great. And then I spent months trying to figure out all of this religious doctrine. And I was in the airport, LAX, getting ready to go to Canada to film it. And I was just nervous, because I thought, I don't know how to play this character. I don't have a way in. And I was in the bathroom and there was a line to get into the bathroom. And when I got into the stall,

because my brain had been working overtime, like just like a computer. You know how you try to remember something and your brain in the background keeps trying to remember it? It never idles down. I was in the bathroom and I had the epiphany, I'm the father. And I yelled it out. And then I realized I was yelling as a woman in the

bathroom that I'm the father. And I, you know, I realized where I was and I stopped myself and I waited and like, let a lot of flushes happen and people leave before I came out. But I realized that my way in was that as a father, I am the mother, and that I had to approach everything as the mother, not the creator, but the mother of all of mankind. And that was my way in. But it was hilarious getting to that point. I will have to say that your role as Ma in the movie Ma was not the typical role that I envisioned you playing. So that must have been somewhat of a stretch. It was a stretch and it was fun. And it's you want to keep challenging yourself because if you don't use it, it atrophies. So I want to continue to stretch as an actress and as a human because life is all about growing

and evolving. And I'm excited for those prospects. Well, Octavia Spencer, thank you so much again for being my guest on All About Change. You're a beautiful person who is changing the world, and your activism is changing the industry. So it's a pleasure having you as my guest, a pleasure having you as my friend,

and I really want to thank you for your time. Thank you, Jay. And again, I'm grateful for the privilege of getting to sit down with you. What you're doing to change the world is beautiful, and I wish more people would do it. Octavia's advocacy for underrepresented folks in film has gone a long way in manifesting her desire to see society represented on screen. Her commitment to that work will lead not only to better films, but a better world. That's it for today's episode. Join us two weeks from today for my talk with gamer and mental health advocate, Buga. Today's episode was produced by Rebecca Shasson with story editing by Yochai Meytal and Mijan

Zulu. To check out more episodes or to learn more about the show, you can visit our website allaboutchangepodcast.com. If you like our show, spread the word, tell a friend or family member, or leave us a review on your favorite podcasting app. We'd really appreciate it. All About Change is produced by the Ruderman Family Foundation in partnership with Pod People. That's all for now. I'm Jay Ruderman, and we'll see you next time on All About Change.