An Army of Normal Folks - Ben and Jessica Owen: Transforming Dope Houses Into Hope Houses (Pt 1)

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

The Owens battled addiction in some of Memphis’ worst dope houses. When they left town to escape this life, Ben felt called to eventually come back to help those whom they left behind. Today, their nonprofit We Fight Monsters owns some of the very houses that they once used in, transforming them into hope houses for 75 people touched by recovery and sex trafficking.Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You literally are going back to the very places that were the worst of the worst for you. You were literally going back and buying houses where you left people behind. You're not, it's not just a slogan. You're literally doing this. We are starting exactly where we left them. I'm going back to houses where my blood is on the floor. Yep. Yep.

And a lot of the people that saw that blood leave his body, or were still there in active addiction. And you're buying the houses. If we can, you know, in one case, we had the house donated to us. And then we have the halfway houses. And then we did buy the half,

we had a mortgage, and we didn't have the money to buy them outright, but we've got the same halfway house I was kicked out of. So yeah. The same one you were kicked out the same halfway house I was kicked out of. So yeah. The same one you were kicked out of? The house I was kicked out of. You took a mortgage on it to buy it. Yeah.

And it's full. Right now, we're housing about 75 men, women and children in Memphis. Welcome to an Army of Normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur and I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis. In that last part, we accidentally actually won an Oscar for the film about our team. That movie is called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big words that nobody understands on CNN and Fox,

but rather an army of normal folks, us, just you and me deciding, hey, maybe I can help. That's what Ben and Jess Owen, the voice we just heard is done. Ben and Jess are lucky to be alive after years of serious addiction. And they're now turning the very dope houses they once lived in into hope houses

where folks in recovery can write the next chapters of their lives. I can't wait for you to meet Ben and Jess right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. ["Generic Sponsors"] Attention, all you 20-somethings out there. Are you tired of pretending like you have it all figured out?

Well, guess what? You're not alone. Get ready to embrace the chaos with the premiere of the fourth season of Crying in Public. Join me, your host, Sydney Winter, to take the mic solo for the very first time. I'm here to share the good, the bad, and the downright awkward of navigating this crazy thing we call girlhood. Consider this your go-to guide for surviving your 20s with style and grace. Well, for the most part. From dissecting mysteries of modern dating, to surviving and thriving in a daily grind of adulting,

crying in public covers it all, and then some. So grab your headphones, we're about to get real, raw, and a little ridiculous. And let's face it, life's two shorts pretend like we've got it all together. It's time to embrace the chaos. So don't miss out on the laughs, the tears, and the inevitable existential crisis.

Listen to the new season of crying in public on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, Here's the Thing. I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating people like actress and director Cheryl Hines.

They were looking for an unknown actress to play Larry David's wife. I said, well, how old is that guy? Isn't he old? And author David Cideris. You know, like when you meet somebody and they'll say, well, I want to be a writer or I want to be an artist. And I say, well, is it all you care about? Because if it's not, it's going to be pretty hard for you. If you're not on fire, it's like opening the door

of an oven. And it's like, wow, you know, you take a step back. It's all they think about. It's all they talk about. It's all they care about. They don't have relationships. They're not good friends for other people. This is just what they're always focused on. Listen to the new season of Here's the Thing

on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If I could be you, and you could be me for just one hour, podcasts. We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with us.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council. Welcome out in the shoes. Welcome everybody. I have with me Ben and Jess Owen, who was introduced to us by formal guests, Jessica Lamb, who I hope you've heard our episode if you hadn't, you need to listen to it. And after Jess told us about Ben and Jessica, I'm saying that's weird.

That's weird. It's two Jesses. I just realized that we have Jess Owen with us and Jess Lamb or Jessica Lamb was our previous guest introduced us. And it's phenomenal where these stories come from. So I want to welcome you to Memphis, Ben and Jessica, and welcome. Thank you.

Thank you for having us. And I guess when I say welcome to Memphis, you live in Georgia, but your roots are here too. Yeah, our roots are here. We've been in Georgia since the middle of 2019 when we got clean. But I've been back in Memphis about 80% of the time since October of 2022. And Jess, you were born here. Born here or grew up here? Well, I moved here when I was eight and I'm almost 40.

So, so I was here for a while. A long time. Yeah. Yeah. High school days and all that here, right? Mm hmm. Yep. So, although you're Georgians, you're also. We're Memphians. Memphians. We're Memphians. Yeah, you school days and all that here, right? Mm-hmm. Yep. So although you're Georgians, you're also...

We're Memphians. Memphians. We're Memphians. You had dual citizenship. Yes. If you ask you the one of us where we're from, we're from South Memphis. Really? Yeah. That's what you say.

Even though you live in Georgia. Doesn't matter where I'm at in the world, if somebody asks me where I'm from, it's South Memphis. Well, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you joining us and I want to dig in, first Ben it sounds like an Army brat really but tell me kind of how you came up. All right. So I was an Army brat and I was born to Ranger officer who was in the 101st commanding of

mortar company at Fort Campbell when I was born. Is that the big red one? No, no, no, Screamin' Eagles. Screamin' Eagles. That's what I meant Screamin' Eagles. Okay. Yep, that's them. So I was born at Fort Campbell.

Mom's an industrial engineer for, it doesn't matter. And we just got to moving around. Dad left the army not too long after my little brother was born at Fort Benning in 1984. And he went to Pfizer Pharmaceuticals probably in 86. I was born in 81. And from there, ma'am, we were all over the country. I think I've lived in 14 states now. Growing up, it was like you'd expect it to be being raised

by an infantry officer. Dad was strict, we had rules. He was an absolutely great father, still is. My parents are still married. I mean, I never doubted that I was loved and valued. My parents fostered my love of learning. Just for whatever reason, all that moving around created a, I don't know what the word for it is.

I had a lot of anxiety. Did you ever feel like you belonged? You know, it's weird. I won't say no, but I won't say yes either. I developed very early on the ability to be a chameleon and fit in wherever I was at. Which I guess, you know, looking back is we moved around more and more. When we moved to California when I was 14, that probably backfired because the easiest place to fit in was with the bad crowd. And that's what that's when my life started going sideways.

So after high school, you graduated high school where? I graduated from Hoover in Birmingham, Alabama. From there, I went to Auburn. I was an ROTC. I was dead set and following my dad's footsteps. I was going to be an infantry officer. And I was wavered into ROTC for a torn ACL that I'd torn and play in football. And then the towers came down on 9-11.

And I was honestly well-emoyed to drink on myself out of college. And I saw that as an opportunity to be a hero as opposed to be a quitter. And I dropped out and listed. I didn't tell meps that I had a torn ACL. So basically I lied to get in and less than a year later, that had come back to bite me in the end. I broke my leg and it up medically discharged. And so you never actually got to serve.

Correct. Yeah. I briefly wore a uniform. I'm a veteran and name only That's the extent of my service. I didn't get to do anything cool, but I did enlist in the infantry I did try I said, you know here am I send me and I got sent home and was it really the 9-11 that okay, I'm ready to roll hundred percent All right, we'll stop there on you and go to Jess. Give us that version of your story. Okay. So I actually grew up in a very nice Christian home until about age eight when we got dropped

off in Memphis because my dad was manager of Kmart. So they were moving us around every two years or so and we made it to Memphis and that's when Kmart was like, oh no, we can't keep up with everybody. We gotta fire everybody. So they fired my dad, like they, you know, let go of everybody else and we stayed in Memphis and my mom started drinking after that. It became extremely violent, very belligerent drunk.

About three or four years later, she discovered crack and he made crack addicts. Now I've got very violent, a lot of crack and... I'm doing the math. You're then 13 or 14? Yep. That's a really tough age anyway. Yes, it is. So...

What was your dad doing? I mean, he had to been watching his wife disintegrate. So they had actually been together from the time they were 13 and 16. So he just kind of, he wasn't there anymore. It's like he just mentally had to leave in order to deal with that or not deal with that. He just wasn't really there. He was there as a shell of a person and we just kind of had to deal with a lot of that. But he worked. I mean, like someone had to pay the bills. She worked too.

But he was really the breadwinner. He would work to make sure we could keep our house going and stuff. So that's where he was really the breadwinner. He would work to make sure we could keep our house going and stuff. So that's where he was. So in the meantime, 13, and that's when I took my first drug. I just wanted to numb everything in me. So I didn't have to deal with my mom. Were you self-medicating? I mean, is that what you think? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Just any drug I could get. It was very small at 13 and then 14,

15, so as I get older, it, you know, gets worse and worse, harder drugs. And so I was just full blown, drug addict, probably about the time I was 15 or so. And I was just jumping from house to house so I could stay away from my mom. I did go to Germantown, all of high school, but the very last year, senior year, I ended up dropping out. Germany High School for our listeners is actually a suburban school, was at that time a really nice school district and a great school. Yeah, which is, I've actually got a whole little story. My mom actually went up there one day trying to get crack money from my brother, and the

office actually had to call me in there to check me out to drive my mother home because she was so drunk when she showed up there. So, you know, being the suburban type, you know, like cheerleader school that it was, it was very embarrassing. You had to be mortified. Yeah. Oh, it was horrible. And then we had like the security guard guys

that were friends with the cheerleaders. So then people were talking about me too, because somehow the security guards were talking to the cheerleaders and everyone was talking about me. So it was, it was mortifying. It was absolutely horrible. So I did end up dropping out. I did graduate with a diploma from Gateway home schools. And from there, I just kept doing drugs and I got pregnant when I was 19 at 20. I had my first child and then four months later, my mom died of a drug overdose.

So then more drugs and more drugs. I did end up going to school. My dad suggested he saw where my life was going. He was like, look, you don't want to end up like your mother. You got to do something, something for your daughter. So I did enroll in Remington College. I graduated top of my class 4.0. I was a certified medical assistant.

I worked in doctor's offices and Delta Medical Hospital. And actually ended up getting fired because of my anger issues a lot. And I was- I can't imagine why. Yeah. I was very good with the patients. Actually, we had patients that cried when I got fired.

Like they loved me and I loved them, but I did have anger issues back out with the patients. Actually, we had patients that cried when I got fired. Like they loved me and I loved them, but I did have anger issues. Back out into the streets, I went doing all the drugs I could. On my daughter's 10th birthday, I was so dope sick that I could not move. I could not get out of bed. I couldn't do anything for her.

Like my dad literally had to take her to celebrate a birthday. So- When you say drugs. Heroin. Heroin, that was my main one. That was what took me down. I had had all the other ones,

but heroin was the one that really had me by the balls. We will get to the redemption everybody, but you have to know who these folks are and what they fought through. First, I know you've told this story a hundred times. Yeah. Yeah, for a lot. And you know people that have lived this life because the work you do But I'm watching you and I'm watching tears well up in your eyes when you're telling me

It's cuz it was a lot. It was a lot to go through is it Raw pain is a shame. What is it? Absolutely no shame whatsoever There's no shame and a lot of people don't get that. You know, a lot of people, they do have a lot of shame, but this is what made me who I am. And this was, I don't want to say that me doing drugs and doing all the bad things was God's plan. I'm sure God did not want me to do that, but he used all of those bad things and he's allowed me to use them to do good and and to I mean even to meet Ben because I you know eventually had to go get clean after my daughter turned 10 and I was too dope sick to leave I went to the treatment and started going

to narcotics anonymous and that is where I met Ben and just this whole thing is a god thing. So if it's not shame, it's well enough in your eyes. And by the way, I just said that to you. I didn't think it was shame. I've interviewed and talked to enough people now that people who are really recovered don't really have shame because they're peace with, I think the pride and the, not the pride,

I think the overcoming at the not the pride I think the I Think the overcoming at all erases the shame. Yeah, and that's what I've learned and so absolutely I get it. I just wanted you to share that part, but still it's still an emotional thing for you to talk about Well, there's definitely still some pain I still have there is guilt I still have guilt there is guilt. I still have guilt over how I raised my daughter when I was on drugs. There will always be that. There's, me and Ben are actually in the middle of writing a book right now.

So my emotional level has kind of been up here. Always joke around until everybody, I don't have emotions. I have hunger and I have anger and that's it. And that's, for the most part, it's true. But writing this book has kind of brought a lot of things to the surface. I've had to go over scenes like with me and my mom, her beating me and stuff. So it's all a little more emotional that it probably would have been earlier. But yeah, there's still pain and there's still a lot of guilt. Okay. So we've come to a place that you're both still don't know each other, but you're an

addicted mother at 22, three years old. And you are a guy who tore up his knee and never got to kind of reach what you wanted to reach and follow in your father's footsteps. And at this point, are you also using? No. So I mentioned briefly California. We're not going to waste time talking about that, but I definitely dabbled in all the drugs when I was out there. I ended up locked up the first time at like 14, 15, 16 drugs. My parents put me in residential.

Do you use it just for possession or? Not legal. My parents locked me up in residential treatment program. Got it. I turned a 10 day stay into like nine months because I kept running away. They sent me to Utah. But anyway, I had been hard on your parents. I was a nightmare to my parents and my parents are perfect. Like literally in every way. You heard her background. She had a horrible, horrible childhood. I did not. Every bad thing that happened to me growing up, I made happen. And I don't know why that is. I was addicted to introducing chaos into my

life. So I did. Back to your question. So after I got out of the army, I started drinking very heavily, started using meth, ended up homeless in Atlanta, randomly made contact with a girl I'd known since I was 12 years old. She was actually my first girlfriend, moved up to Charlotte, North Carolina within a week. She was pregnant and she had no idea that I was using drugs back in Atlanta or how bad my life was. But I took that as like, this is my opportunity to get it together. So I did. I got a job. I went back to college. I hadn't given up on following my dad's footsteps yet. So I graduated college with honors, got a job with Pfizer Pharmaceuticals. Not Auburn, but Alabama.

Alabama this time, right? So it was actually University of Alabama in Huntsville. Got it. I say, Bama because it's shorter. Got it. So I get a job with Pfizer and Pfizer moves us to Memphis. Now, I had been battling alcoholism this whole time and it runs in my family. My great grandfather died in a jail cell in DT's. We recently just lost another uncle to alcoholism, but neither one of my parents had this fight, right? So I moved to Memphis and I'm up and down with drinking. I actually

drank my gallbladder out of my body. They had to remove it. They, uh, I was the youngest person in the state of Alabama to have a Nissen procedure, trying to mitigate the damage alcohol was doing to my GI system. So like I knew I had a problem with alcohol. I want to say it was like 2007 or eight. I started having alcoholic dementia. I was like 26, 27 years old, father of two kids, homeowner. And like they're-

And a job at Pfizer. And a job at Pfizer and they're telling my wife- From the outside people are like, this looks good. Yeah, this guy's got it together. But it was really, really bad behind the scenes. And Easter Sunday, it was 2007. Easter Sunday, 2007. I was in Georgia visiting my parents with Aaron and the kids and we got into an argument. They tried to do an intervention and just for our listeners, those don't go well usually. Like we don't believe in them. We've never seen one work. So they

tried an intervention and I got in my car and headed back to Memphis because I was going to drink. I didn't hear what they said and I'm going to do what I'm going to do. I'm a man. I'm a dad. I got it together. I got a good job. I paid the bills and I was going to drink. I didn't care what they said. I'm going to do what I'm going to do. I'm a man. I'm a dad. I got it together. I got a good job. I paid the bills. I'm a college grad.

I'm a college grad. I'm an army vet. I'm a real man and a real man can drink. Well, I was outside of Scottsboro, Alabama doing a buck 30 and I flipped a Honda and I went out the rear windshield. That leg that I had damaged in football in the army. I completely destroyed I've got less than half of my tibia is actual bone to this day fractured my pelvis in three places and for whatever reason they didn't give me a DUI, but I mean I damn near died

I was laid up for six months. I got sober that day and I stayed sober until 2011 I left Pfizer because the culture in pharmaceutical sales is very heavy drinking culture. And I realized I wasn't gonna be able to stay sober if I stayed in that industry. So I went to medical device sales where the money was better,

but the drinking culture was even worse. So by 2009, I had realized if I'm gonna stay sober, I need to be self-employed. So I started an e-commerce business. 2010, we had another baby. 2011, we had twins. And I'm still sober. I had even quit smoking cigarettes by this point in time.

I had an employee at my warehouse who was a raging alcoholic. I'm watching the same thing that played out with me a few years earlier, was playing out with him. He's coming to work throwing up bile. He's puking up blood like I know what I'm seeing. So I got him into treatment at Lakeside. And this is back when Lakeside would actually keep you for 28 days.

They didn't have this PHP program that they've got now. He's, you know, he made it through. He's kicking out. And another one of my employees is like, Hey, my buddy just came back from my rack, you know, he didn't have a leg. He's addicted to pain pills. Can we help him too? And so that was into 2011, early 2012, when Sergeant Deaton came back and we got him off

the street, gave him a job, got him through La Paloma. I actually moved. La Paloma is a local treatment program. Yep. Yep. They've closed down since, but it was a great program. He made it through, got sober, ended up renting the house next door to us. And then my, because I wasn't doing anything from my alcoholism, right?

I just quit drinking. I wasn't going to meetings. I wasn't working a program. I wasn't doing any of the things they tell you to do. Were you feeling the grip every day, even though you weren't drinking? No, I felt fine. You were over it. I was over it.

And then my, my alcoholic mind started working and it's like, Hey, you just got you just got that dude clean and you just got this vet off the streets. You got five kids. You got a business is booming. You can handle it. You can drink like a real man now. So guess what I did? And man, when I tell you the wheels came off that bus fast, I mean it. Man, when I tell you the wheels came off that bus fast, I mean it. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first I really hope you'll consider becoming a premium member at normalfolks.us. Y'all, the army has 28 premium members right now, and we're setting an initial goal of getting a hundred premium members.

I hope you'll be open to joining us. Why? Because by becoming one for ten bucks a month or a thousand dollars a year, you can get access to cool benefits like bonus episodes, a yearly group call, and even a one-on-one call with me. You're so lucky. But frankly guys, premium memberships help us to grow the army that our country desperately needs right now.

So I hope you'll think about it. We'll be right back. Attention all you 20-somethings out there. Are you tired of pretending like you have it all figured out? Well, guess what? You're not alone. Get ready to embrace the chaos with the premiere of the fourth season of Crying in Public. Join me, your host, Sydney Winter, as I take the mic solo for the very first time.

I'm here to share the good, the bad, and the downright awkward of navigating this crazy thing we call girlhood. Consider this your go-to guide for surviving your 20s with style and grace. Well for the most part. From dissecting mysteries of modern dating to surviving and thriving in a daily grind of adulting, crying in public covers it all and then some. So grab your headphones, you're about to get real, raw, and a little ridiculous. And let's face it, life's too short to pretend that we've got it all together. Time to embrace the chaos. Stone miss out on the laughs, the tears, and the inevitable existential crisis. Listen to the new season of crying in public on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, Here's the Thing. I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating people like actress and director, Cheryl Hines. They were looking for an unknown actress to play Larry David's wife. I said, well, how old is that guy? Isn't he old?

And author David Sideris. You know, like when you meet somebody and they'll say, well, I want to be a writer or I want to be an artist. And I say, well, is it all you care about? Because if it's not, it's going to be pretty hard for you. If you're not on fire, it's like opening the door of an oven. And it's like, wow, you know, you take a step back. It's all they think about.

It's all they talk about. It's all they care about. They don't have relationships. They're not good friends for other people. This is just what their... Where all their energy goes. ...focus on. Yeah.

Listen to the new season of Here's the Thing on the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome All In My Shoes. Welcome All In My Shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with us.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council. Welcome All In My Shoes. by Halloween of 2013 I was putting $800 a heroin and cocaine up my arms a day timeout that's a big switch so I started drinking the heroin right so here's how

this progression went and and and that's a year. It was a little over a year, but here's how it went. So you remember I got in that car wreck in 2007. Right. Well, when they did the surgery, somehow they gave me met the cell and resistance staff and it came back. And it was bad. It hurt really, really bad. They had me on a really high dose of narcotic pain medication, opiates, hydrocodone or percidone, I don't remember which one it was, prescribed. And I've, for whatever reason, I've always had a very high tolerance to any drug you give me.

And so they had me on a really, really high dose of it. And I'm at work one day, Sergeant Deaton's there, the vet that we had gotten off the street. And I realized that I just cussed out a guy who has spent $90,000 of my business in the preceding 10 months. And I'm like, these pills are making me a jerk. And so I went in the bathroom and I flushed every single one of them to the toilet. Now I've been on for six weeks. I've never been addicted to opiates before, so I didn't know what was about to happen. But Deaton sure did.

Sure enough, 12 hours later, I was so sick, I thought I was going to die. I went into withdrawals. I went into opiate withdrawals, yeah. And that was the first time it had ever happened to me, and he handed me this little tiny blue pill that he'd got from the VA. And I was better instantly. I mean, literally within minutes, I was fine. What the pill was was a 30 milligram oxycodone. And I was hooked. That fast.

Were you really? I mean, it's like that fast. That fast. And back then, you know, they were going for 30 bucks a piece, probably. And I got up 10 of them a day. Sure. And, you know, he he moved back to Maine. And so I'm trying to figure out if I've now got a $300 a pill habit. And I had another employee who had just gotten out of jail who's like, you know, heroine's a lot cheaper.

And I'm like, I'm not doing that. By the end of the week, I was doing that. And at first, it was cheaper. All right. So this is a question I've never asked, but I've always wondered. What is going through your mind the very first time you put a tourniquet around your arm and you stick that needle in your arm because you're a smart guy, you know, good and well. What a heroin addict looks like three years after being a heroin addict.

What are you thinking? So the first time it was a needle, I did not do it to myself. I was actually terrified of needles. And I guess the first time I did a heroin, I snorted it the first several times and Then I got curious because it felt good, you know initially I was using it to afford to not be sick and and so I had Andrew shoot me up the first time and

Within a day or two. I was like, well, this is stupid. I'll just do it myself And yeah, I knew I knew where it was gonna end up But you tell yourself, you know, it's not going to happen to me. You got to remember, I'm a dad with five kids. I'm on home and I have a business. I can handle this. And that was the lie I kept telling myself. And then pretty soon it's, well, you know, I'm going to quit tomorrow.

And tomorrow never comes. Yes, you laughed. Is that what every addict says? Yeah. Yeah. Did you tell yourself you were going to quit tomorrow? Absolutely. Every day.

I mean, I would have plans. I would even write it out like step for step. I'm like, I'm only going to do this much at this time and this much at this time. And then by the end of it, I'm like, I'm just going to do all of it. I'm just going to do all of it right now and have a really good high because I'm going to stop tomorrow. And then I'm going to be out and it'll be okay. I won't have it anymore.

And then you end up sick. And then you're so sick I want to stop tomorrow. And then I'm going to be out and it'll be okay. I won't have any more. And then you end up sick. And then you're so sick you want to die. And for anybody listening that doesn't understand what it's like to be dope sick, you can't describe it. You really can't. It's the despair is the hardest part to deal with. You're going to feel like you have the flu, a stomach virus, COVID, malaria, chills, all of that. You're going to feel like you have the flu, a stomach virus, COVID, malaria, chills, all of that. You're going to feel like you have all of it at the same time. But the despair and the sense of hopelessness is something I can never put into words. Yeah. You can't describe it.

And you'll do literally anything to make that stop. So where does the despair come from? Is it like, What does the despair come from? Is it like, is it because you know or you're trying to never use something again that makes you feel good and that makes you desperate or is it desperate because you're so... It's a chemical imbalance created in your brain and I could sit here and talk for an hour about the pharmacokinetics of it, but opiates, they change the chemical makeup of your brain. Does your brain recover after non use? It does. It takes a long time.

And again, that's going to depend on on total abstinence. You have a lot of maintenance drugs out there that they'll throw at people like Suboxone or Methadone. And no, your brain is not going to go back to normal if you're taking those. So it can be months in some cases. So it's 2013 and house kids guy with a business, but I can't imagine that last when you become a heroin addict. It didn't last 10 months later. It was, well, fourth of July of 2014, I had restored a 1968 GTO with three of my kids.

And I guess all of them helped. Anyway, my wife picked up and left me that day. I hopped in the GTO and I went to the dope man. I was at Central and East Parkway, ran right in line. That is, again, for the listeners in Memphis, not in Memphis, that is literally the center of the city. That is Midtown. Yep.

Right there at the University of Memphis. Yeah. And I ran that red light at Central and I hit an F-350. And my car spun and I was dope sick. I had money, but I was intentionally dope sick because I was trying to quit and punish myself because I hated myself I did have shame at that point in time for what I was putting my kids through The car spun I am pinned underneath the steering wheel and a five-point restraint and the gas tank burst into flames I've got bones sticking out of my feet my teeth went through my lip and I'm in this car everybody thinks I'm dead and

My teeth went through my lip and I'm in this car and everybody thinks I'm dead. And I had a fire extinguisher in the car because it I mean, it was souped up and I pulled it out, deployed it and nothing happened. And it was dead. And so I throw it through my window and then they real everybody stand around and realize that I was alive, but it was also bad because it introduced oxygen to the inside of the car. So the huge fireball goes off. I don't know how I'm not a burn victim.

The debit cards and ID in my pocket melted. I've still got them. About as close as you can get. This dude pulls me out of the car. Like I said, I have bones sticking out of my feet. And I realize I'm less than a mile from the dope man's house. And I start trying to walk. That's how bad the pull of opiate addiction is. The

ambulance drivers had tackled me and they took me to the med. Somehow I didn't end up with any charges, I guess, because I was sober when it happened. I was fast forward to July 28th. My wife had already left me. July 28th, by this point in time, I had gotten the insurance money for the GTO, burned through $34,000 in like nine days, and so I'm broke again. And I was on the way back to Lakeland from my warehouse. Lakeland is a suburban office. Yep. And we had a firing range behind my warehouse. So I was up there blowing off some steam, shooting. I had several firearms in the truck with me. I had two suppressors in the truck with me that I legally owned. I had

a little paperwork with me. I also had three grams of heroin and three grams of crack cocaine. And I got pulled. Yeah, firearms and that stuff. I got pulled over and they charged me like I was Pablo Escobar 14 felony counts and That was it five agencies and 30 something vehicles that ended up in our little Cove Out there on the Stombergs golf course They they seriously treated it like it. I was some huge dope mover. But anyway, that was it for me and Erin She filed for divorce and I ended up I ended up on drug court for me and Erin, she filed for divorce and I ended up on drug court. The drug court program here is one of the oldest in the country for those not familiar with treatment

courts. Basically, they're going to give you an opportunity to get rid of those criminal charges, have an expungement, so it's like you never even got arrested. All you have to do is complete the requirements of an 18 month court program. Sounds like a great deal, right? I got kicked off. I actually. They ordered me into a halfway house, which coincidentally is the halfway house we own today. But I made it eight days before I got

kicked out of that halfway house. All right, dude. I'm imagining myself. You're a homeowner. You just said Stonebridge. I assume that's where you lived. So Stonebridge is a nice area. You've got five kids, a wife and a business. And in only two years, you're strung out and in a halfway house. When you're looking at the mirror, what are you seeing? So it's funny you asked that. There was a mirror and I could take you to it in a house.

I used to squat in the south Memphis and I would, I would wake up every day and stare into that mirror and tell myself what a piece of shit I am. What a worthless piece of shit you are. And that mirror is still there. That house still stands. We're trying to buy it. What's worse, that or the addiction?

The self loathing hands down and they feed each other. I was just about to say, but it feels like that's a their feeder systems for one another. Yeah, absolutely. Did you hate yourself? I hated everything about me. I hated everything about me. You're 23, Jess. You're an addicted mother. Are you feeling the same self-loathing? I don't want to say it was as bad as his because I didn't have any of that. I was still living at my dad's house with my daughter and... You've never experienced any success at this point? with my daughter. And um... You'd never experienced any success at this point? Mm-mm, nothing.

That'd been kind of crappy. Yeah, it had just been crappy. From eight years old all the way through. Yeah, I mean, if anything, I was actually a little proud of myself because I graduated top of my class and I was smoking weed the whole time. Like, I wasn't doing any hard drugs, but I was, you know, like I'd study for the test with a blunt in my hand, you know, and I still graduated top my class. And so that was actually a big accomplishment for me.

But once I went into recovery, I did end up relapsing again. So my self-hate was definitely not as bad as his, but I still had a lot of guilt over my daughter in the way that because I just I looked in the mirror and I saw my mother. So that, that is what that hurt because I was starting to put my daughter through what I went through. And I wasn't beating her or anything like that, but you know, she was still having to deal with a mother in addiction. Just my dad left when I was four. He died about six, seven months ago. I got a call after his death and was just told he was dead. That was pretty much my relationship with him.

There were. There are a few times in and out of my life between four years old and then that. We were around each other, but certainly it was not was not what you'd hoped, right? Taking me a long time To forgive him for what I now know Is the trauma the negatively affected me until my 40s? No drugs no abuse no physical abuse

Have you been ever forgive your mom? I have. And I think it's a little easier because I am an addict myself and I get it because crack was her go to that was her drug that in the end, that's what ended up being my drug. That was the one that took everything from me. And I've actually, you know, I know that craving, I know that feeling.

So I will never understand beating the shit out of your kids. I don't understand that. But I also hate alcohol. I can't stand it. I don't wanna touch it. And I think, because when I smell it, I think of her. So I don't understand that. But the addiction part, the, you know, putting your kids second over your addiction, I do understand her. So I don't understand that, but the addiction part, the, you know,

putting your kids second over your addiction, I do understand that. So I have forgiven her. Comes a long way to understand someone who's so profoundly affected you to understand that they're brokenness. Yeah. And stuff. But I don't think you can fully recover until you do understand that brokenness. I absolutely agree with that.

Yeah, I do too. We'll be right back. Attention all you 20-somethings out there. Are you tired of pretending like you have it all figured out? Well, guess what? You're not alone. Get ready to embrace the chaos with the premiere of the fourth season of Crying in Public. Join me, your host, Sydney Winter, as I take the mic solo for the very first time.

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Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, Here's the Thing. I spoke Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. actress to play Larry David's wife. I said, well, how old is that guy? Isn't he old? And author David Sedaris. You know, like when you meet somebody and they'll say, well, I'm going to be a writer or I'm going to be an artist. And I say, well, is it all you care about? Because if it's not, it's going to be pretty hard for you. If you're not on fire, it's like opening the door of an oven. And it's like, wow, you take a step back. It's all they think about, it's all they talk about, it's all they care about. They don't have relationships.

They're not good friends for other people. This is just what they're focused on. For all their energy goes. Listen to the new season of Here's the Thing on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If I could be you. And you could be me for just one hour.

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Brought to you by the Ad Council. Walk a mile in my shoes. So. Y'all are both just messed up. Don't even know each other yet, do you? We haven't even met. Y'all are just, you're hating you. You're trying to destroy you. You're trying to destroy you.

And you're dealing with lots of probably anger and sadness and you're dealing with self-hate and The wheels are off both of your worlds You've lost your wife. You're probably about to lose your kid. I guess Yeah, it came close Most people in that place are dead by now. I read you met a guy named Brandon Kelly. Can you tell me about Brandon? Yeah. So it was probably October 2014.

I had I had made bond and gotten rearrested on another felony warrant. And I'm sitting, I'm sitting in the holding tank outside division eight, waiting to go in and find out what Judge Dwyer is going to do with me. I look across the tank and I swear there's a kid in the holding tank of Tull and Popper with me. And I do like a triple take at him and you're always upstairs and he's like, what? And so I go over and talk to him like thinking he needs protection, you know,

because we're in here with all the big scary guys. It's a 14 year old. It looks like the kid looked 14. Come to find out he was actually 21, 22, is a type one diabetic, had a lot of indecrant problems and he just looked like a child and You know how it is what you don't know how it is But when you're in jail you want everybody to reassure you and you're gonna ask everybody you can talk to like What's the judge gonna do what's gonna happen?

And I found out this kid had actually been on drug court in front of judge Dwyer for quite some time And so I'm asking him what's gonna happen. He's like well I'm in this halfway house called Rebos. And the guy that owns a place is named Tony Shelby, and he can help you. He can get you out of jail. And the judge listens to him. And so instantly, this little 14-year-old looking kid is my best friend now because he knows a guy that can get me out of jail. And that's all I wanted. All I wanted was to stay clean and be a daddy to my kids again. And in that moment, that's all I wanted. All I wanted was to stay clean and be a daddy to my kids again. And in that moment, that's what I thought.

That's what sober, Brenna, that's what sober been at that time. Yeah. And sure enough, you know, it was probably a month later, they made me sit in jail for a while, but Tony Shelby did come to Tilly on Popper and he did get me out of jail and he took me back to Reebo's and I shared a bunk with Brandon Kelly. And there were, you know, some ups and downs by my birthday. I actually on my birthday of 2014, November 13th, 2014. Max's wife had been advised by her divorce attorney to serve me with a restraining order.

I keep in mind I've never threatened her. I've never laid a finger on her or the kids. He just told her she should do this. It was later with Jerome when she realized what had to happen for her to do that. But I did what we do when we get news we don't like and that's we do drugs. And so I went and got drunk and high. I got kicked out of that halfway house and I went back to jail and I Think it was December 17th. Maybe this guy comes. I'm still in jail

They bring me back into division eight and this guy comes up to me got him Brian Owens and he goes are you tired of living like this? I was like, yeah, I'm tired of living like this. I'm really not a minute I mean I was it's, you don't have to. And he can do something different. And he introduced me to narcotics anonymous. He convinced the judge to let me out of jail and that I would shadow him to these in a meetings. And the first in a meeting he took me to Brandon was there.

So, you know, instantly butted back up a brand and. And I saw her. We hadn't talked, but I started noticing her more and more in these NA meetings. And then Brian took me, I guess it was his fiance at the time, fourth sober birthday in January of 2015. Me and Brandon Kelly went and I actually ended up meeting Jess finally. And Brandon was kind of my wingman over the next several months. I finally had come to accept I'm getting divorced even though I didn't want to. And I guess for all intents and purposes, Brandon kind of almost ordained Jess and I ending up together.

Just how did you end up at NA? So I finally, after my daughter's 10th birthday, and I realized that I needed to get some help, I went to Detox, went to Serenity for a month, and then once they let me out of Serenity, I was back in my dad's house, and I was doing really good. I was like staying in the Bible, staying, working my steps, and I'd been out for like two, three days, and I was like, well, I was supposed to be going to meetings. So I've never been to a meeting before. So I looked up Google and just put in NA meetings, Memphis, Tennessee, and spiritual awakenings popped up. That was the first one I saw.

Where is this? That is Park and Highland. Park and Highland. No, no, no, not Highland. It's Park and Poplar. Park and estate. Yeah, estate. There's a church there.

Yeah. So I look it up on Google and I go to my dad because I don't. Yeah, a state. There's a church there. Yeah. So I look it up on Google and I go to my dad because I don't have a vehicle or anything. I don't have anything. And I'm like, hey, I'm supposed to be going to NA meetings. Can you take me here? So he took me and they were on Friday nights at like seven o'clock and that was my home group and Brian Owens, the one that he was just talking about, that was actually the

first person that ever spoke to me at this NA meeting. And like, you know, when you're brand new, you don't know anybody, it's very awkward because it's, you know, it's an NA meeting. And he was actually the first one to come talk to me and tell me how awesome it was I came and that I'm welcome to come anytime

and gave me like this big hug, which is weird for me because I'm not a hugger, I'm not a physical hugger. But you know, he gave me this huge hug hug, which is weird for me because I'm not a hugger. I'm not a physical. But, you know, he gave me this huge hug and he was such a sweet guy. And I kept going back to NA and eventually met Ben. So the truth is you're both wheels off trying to get it right. And you meet at an NA meeting, which is an interesting thing because my. meeting, which is an interesting thing because my great aunt, who just passed away not long ago, actually founded the first AA chapter in Memphis.

Really? That's awesome. Years ago at Central Church in Midtown in Shirley-Farnsworth. And her husband, Sid, preceded her in death by about five years and they met at an AA meeting. That's amazing. And the reason I'm saying this is, Shirley told me that AA saves people lives. She also said AA can be really dangerous. Yes.

Because you're surrounded by alcoholics. Yep. And if you're not partnered up and you're not doing everything you're supposed to do and have an accountability coach, the problem is you're putting a bunch of people in the same room with the same problem and without a really strong accountability and commitment to it, what you end up doing is introducing people to one another who are going to go get drunk together. It can't be disaster.

Which is exactly what Jess and I did. That's what we did. That's exactly what ended up happening. So tell me about it. So they say you should never, ever get into a relationship in early recovery. There's even a saying, two sickies don't make a wellie. Man, if that's not the truth, I don't know what is. Well, and plus Brandon's sang, and plus Brandon sang it around.

Brands, which is the third leg of the dark edict school stool, right? Brandon actually helped keep me between the rails. Brandon was there the last time I did heroin before we went back out. Even though he was so much younger than I was, he had a lot more experience with dope than I did. You got to remember, I got arrested 10 months a lot more experience with dope than I did. You got to remember, I got arrested 10 months into my ordeal with him.

Yeah, you started late. Yeah. Now, I spent an ungodly amount of money in that short period of time, but he had been fighting an opiate addiction for God, probably a decade. I think he started shooting up when he was 13 years old and fostered here. Oh, gosh. Yeah. He had just a, I can't even put words to help jacked up his life was you think hers sound a bit

Yeah times three sounds like Yeah, that's it. It ended up being a hell he didn't escape, you know Brandon graduated drug court Like I guess you could say with honors. They had this little award They give whoever is the the most awesome client they have. And I got kicked off. But today I'm sitting here talking to you all. He's no kidding.

And a Ziploc bag in my truck. Well, yeah. So, you know, addiction doesn't discriminate. It does what it is. But I think for the first. Well, from April of 2015,, just now run separately for good or for bad. And for the first six months, it was good. And we're both we're both so we're clean.

Clean. We're clean. We kept together. We're doing our meetings. Are you working? Yeah, we started one of my businesses back up. No, two. We started up one of my businesses back up. No, two. We started up two of my businesses back up again.

Things are going really well. And then bad decisions started entering the picture. Resentment started forming. Brandon went ahead and pulled away from us because he saw where it was headed. Then he was getting close to graduation at that point in time. And then it was kind of just me and Jess, you know, on a downward spiral together. She was pregnant and I ended up kicked off drug court and back in jail for a relapse. A $200,000 bond like we didn't think I was getting out. Oddly enough, Jess and Erin, my ex-wife got together and were able to sell enough of what I still had in my name to bond me out.

I hired a good attorney for my case to go upstairs, judge coffee's courtroom, and ended up, well, let's slow down. Moving too quick there. I don't even know where to go next. I don't even know where to go next. This is what we got. So we get him out of jail and it's, you know, a few months later, I have James, which is our first together. You know, there's things that we haven't mentioned here, but there's a lot of resentment from those things. And then he, you know, keeps going back out and relapsing.

So you know, I'm pregnant. I can't do drugs. I've stopped smoking cigarettes. You know, I'm just, I'm there for my pregnancy. So when I have James, I always have C-sections. So of course they give you pain pills from your C-section. Yikes. So I started taking pain pills.

Well, I'm so angry at him, even though I love him and I want to stay with him. I'm still angry as hell at him. And this is like, like my resentment. And I'm like, well, he got to do all this. Now it's my turn. So I just kept taking pills. And I think I ended up getting an extra prescription from the doctor. And then once those were out, and my sister as well is an addict, and she was on opiates.

So then I was like, Jamie, can I get some pain pills? I'm still hurting or something like that. So I just continue to be on opiates. I just stay on the pain pills and it ends up becoming extremely expensive because I don't ever want to go back to heroin. And so I'm like, I'm just going to stay on these pain pills. And that's that's going to be it for me. And and he's clean.

Well, I'll go back about three weeks after James was born. I'm like still recovering from my C-section. I get a call from 201 because he's been caught with more crack. So then my resentment starts all over again. So I'm just still angry. So and that's another reason I just keep doing drugs. I'm like, well, it's my turn. I get to I get high now.

So after a few months, he's gotten it together. He's clean. You know, we've got him out of jail, but I'm still on pain pills and it just kind of keeps going. You guys are on a seesaw of alternatives. It's exactly what it was. I know it sounds like we're bouncing around because we are because there's a lot of insanity in this.

Let's go ahead and call a spade a spade. So Jess and I had been together for like two months I was unfaithful For whatever reason she decided to stick it out with me probably because she was carrying my child But I'm glad she did right so that Resentment carried over until after James was born Brilliant to a lot later than that because he stabbed me over it in 2017 later than that because you stabbed me over it in 2017. There's another reason I was doing what you said. Okay. Good grief. So we have this constant up and down either Jess is getting

high but it's pain pills and we're hiding it from everybody we know or Ben is drunk and burning the world to the ground or Ben has relapsed on crack and this goes on and on and on until I Want to say it was now like she said I had it together I think I probably had six or nine months sober She's still on paying pills and one day we're sitting there We we lost the house that Aaron and I had bought Aaron when she left me She left the house and everything because she couldn't pay for it. Guess what either could I? They foreclosed on it finally.

It was sold at auction and Jess and I ended up just by a stroke of, I guess, good luck. We were able to lease a huge house in Arlington. And so we move into this house and I remember it was like we'd gotten the kids back. Everybody thought we were doing great. It was probably early 2018. I don't envy you for having to edit all this because this is everywhere. I'm sorry. All right, hang on. So, God, where do we even go with this? We had a lot of businesses. We did.

Even though we were getting high, like I'm a workhorse. I just work, work, work. So we have all these businesses. We look very successful. We have all these orders were shipping out every day So we always had a like a gun parts black business black rifle the bump stock Do you know what that is? Yeah, slide fire? We were the number two distributed You know anything about the Vegas thing you learned all about bump stocks. Yeah. And so Vegas happened, and that was in October of 16. Our sales went through the roof, which is great for a little bit, because I'm able to afford her pill habit. I'm still sober. I'm cranking away. I'm making, you know, we're getting it done. Outside looking in, things look great.

Sales just keep growing. And every time the media talked about the bump stock ban happening and it didn't happen Sales are back through the roof even more and this is great for a long time Until February of 2018 We did half a million a month in sales and when we broke that half a million dollar a month barrier the credit card industry Or the processor we were using was like hold up or the processor we were using was like, hold up, you guys are extremely over leveraged on a single piece of inventory that we believe is getting banned.

We're going to pump the brakes in your processing. And just to make sure things are OK, we're going to go ahead and hold all the funds you have in process right now, which ended up being about a quarter million dollars, which is everything. That's all we had. They were right. I was over leveraged. When they did that, we did what addicts do when they're not working a solid program of recovery. And we decided we can't afford justice pill habit, but we can't afford just to be sick

and heroin's cheaper. It's always cheaper in the beginning. And which meant I had to go back to South Memphis to get because this is the only place I need to get heroin And while I was there I went ahead and got me some too and I went ahead and got some crack And you can imagine if you're gonna go the crush where you might as well load up. That's right You can imagine you've heard a little bit of how quickly I can burn wheels off a bus from March until probably November of 2018. We were burning through. I hate to even think about how much money we spent. How much?

Six figures. Yeah. Six figures. Wow. We both have very high tolerances. Extremely high. I mean, between the two of us, we probably had a $1,200 or $1,500 a day habit. A day? A day. A day. Guys, that concludes part one of my conversation with Ben and Jess Owen, and I'm telling you, don't miss part two. It's now available to listen to. Has their redemption story. It's coming guys. And it's amazing.

Y'all, we can change this country together. It starts with you. I'll see you in part two. The black information network and six time Emmy Emmy-nominated news anchor Vanessa Tyler, welcome you to Black Land. A podcast about the ground on which the Black community stands right now. From stories about salvation and loss. I love the person who had an HIV diagnosis.

To dreams achieved or yet unfulfilled. From people who have made it. I sat down with a therapist and I began my journey. To those left behind. Listen to Blackland on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Nazi V2 was a rocket-powered bomb traveling faster than the speed of sound. You couldn't hear it coming. A technological miracle but a military and economic disaster for Nazi Germany. How did the V2 come into existence and why were so many of the people it hurt, not the

people you might expect? Join me, Tim Harford, host of cautionary tales for my gripping mini-series on the V2 rocket available now. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, here's the thing. I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers and so many other fascinating people

like jazz bassist Christian McBride. Jazz is based on improvisation, but there's very much a form to it. You have a conversation based on that melody and those chord changes. So it's kind of like giving someone a topic and say, okay, talk about this.