An Army of Normal Folks - Bob Muzikowksi: If I Get Half, My Neighbor Gets Half (Pt 1)

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

After accidentally moving next to the worst housing project in America, Bob Muzikowski dug in. He started a little league for its kids, then intentionally moved into the hood on Chicago’s West Side, and started the largest inner-city little league in the country there. Finally, when Bob sold part of his company, he donated 50% of his earnings to build a world-class school there called Chicago Hope Academy. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The next morning I go for a run and a block away, I come around a corner and there's 20, 15 story projects, Cabrini Green Housing Project. I had moved by mistake a block away from the worst housing project in America. Is that really true? Yeah. You didn't know. Yeah. So people-

I mean you're a smart guy. How'd you not know? We came in from the, as he knows, from the lakeside. Seriously? Yeah. I mean we had a U-Haul behind it and a couple phone calls. You're a smart guy. How'd you not know? We came in from the, from the, as he knows, from the lakeside. Seriously? Yeah. I mean, we had a U-Haul behind it and a couple phone calls. And so this is 33. So at night I'm sitting on my deck that night. And they were pop, pop, pop. I'm thinking this one. It was May. It was around Memorial Day. And I thought this must be a patriotic neighbor.

Welcome to an army of noble folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur. And I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis. And the last part, somehow that led to an Oscar for the film about our team. That movie's called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks, us. Just you and me deciding, hey, maybe I can help. That's what Bob Muszkowski,

the voice you just heard, has done. Bob accidentally moved into a home that was next to the worst housing project in America, and instead of running, he dug in. He started a little league for its kids, then intentionally moved into the hood on the west side of Chicago and ended up starting the largest inner-city little league in the country. And finally, he decided that wasn't enough, so he built a world-class school there called Chicago

Hope Academy. And on top of all this this dude is hilarious I cannot wait for you to meet Bob right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though

these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlemagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. Whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me,

Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The 2025 iHeart Podcast Awards are coming. This is the chance to nominate your podcast for the industry's biggest award. Submit your podcast for nomination now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. But hurry, submissions close on December 8th. Hey, you've been doing all that talking, it's time to get rewarded for it.

Submit your podcast today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, James Brown, B.B. King, Miriam Makeba. I shook up the world. James Brown said, said love. And Makeba said, I'm black and I'm proud. Black boxing stars and black music royalty

together in the heart of Zaire, Africa. Three days of music and then the boxing event. What was going on in the world at the time made this fight as important that anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to rumble the story of a world in transformation the 60's and prior to that you couldn't call

the person black and how we arrived at this peak moment. I don't have to be what you want me to be. We all came from the continent of Africa. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast, When You're Invisible, is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before.

Season two is all about community, organizing, and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it. I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits. They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys,

but like, be respectful. We're made out of the same things, bone, body, blood. It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible as part of the MyCultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba.

He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with.

His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Piece, the Elian Gonzalez story

as part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Bob Muzykowski, welcome to Memphis. Morning. You know, I don't know if you played football, but if you did, that would have to have been a middle linebacker or fullback with that name Moosikowski I can hear people going What kind of name is that? It's Polish and I was tight end and outside linebacker in high school when you got to play a malt

Right, you got to play both ways or you're only playing half the game That's right, but it's been a lot of good Polish by Bronco Nagurski was the Bulls fullback and He was a great player ran hard and in those days the goalposts were in the front. So it's fourth and eight, they give it to Bronco, breaks three tackles and slams into the goalpost, right, and spins in the end zone. He staggers back to the huddle and everybody says, are you okay, Bronco? And he goes, that last guy hit me really hard. Yeah, well, like you have it.

Gotta be a Polish joke in there. Yeah. So Bob, we could literally sit here for much longer than we have. Hours and hours and hours. Your story is phenomenal and to unpack it all and I'm excited to get into it. But first, just I think it's cool.

Just kind of tell me where and how you grew up. So I grew up in Bayonne, New Jersey, which is actually the closest point to the Statue of Liberty in New York. The statue is actually closer to the Jersey side. So I actually watched out my bedroom window as the two towers went up, the twin towers went up and then on September 11th we watched them, we all watched them come down. You're kidding me. So they own blue collar town, a lot of veterans, Exxon, a lot of dock workers.

My father worked at Westinghouse factory in Jersey City for 31 years, died when I was 19. They beat the Germans so that they couldn't beat the cigarettes and the booze, you know. So anyway, my neighbor, this is Bayon, Chuck Wepner was the New Jersey state champ. I think that Chuck was like 26 and 10. Boxing? Yes. And between Ali flights, Frazier fights Ali wanted a tune-up So he fights the Bayon bomber Chuck Wepner who knocked Muhammad Ali down in the eighth round went the distance Got about 60 stitches it but went the distance and Sylvester Stallone

So the Wepner Ali fight and wrote Rocky in three days. You're kidding me the Bayon bomber I was thener, Stallone saw that fight in Cleveland and wrote Rocky. He was the inspiration behind Rocky? He was a liquor salesman and was a good boxer, but he didn't get paid enough then. And he was your neighbor? And there were five guys on my block that could beat up Chuck.

Are you kidding? It was that kind of neighborhood. No kidding. That was a classic Bayon. So yeah, Google the Bayon bomber Chuck Wepner, Rocky. So and Stallone made a fortune. But and you know, to be fair, the Rocky stuff was great. It made hundreds of people go work out and get inspired, whatever. Who didn't go for a run? Not to the Rocky side. And gonna fly now and the whole thing. But that is so, so you know this guy. So Weppner, I saw him at a Yankee game maybe five years ago when I was in New York City.

He's still around? Yeah, Chuck's would gotta be mid 70s maybe, late 70s. So he would say, he said, he was on Johnny Carson two days after the fight, all banged up. And Johnny Carson says, Chuck looks pretty rough. He goes, I get it worse. A night night out with the boys I would have kicked his ass in a phone booth so that was bad that's where I grew up and I went to all boys Catholic school Marist I had a scholarship there played football bass

was captain of all the teams and I had a great experience growing up in a Catholic system you know 99% of the priests didn't abuse anybody. It's not everybody. It's great people. The priests and the nuns that taught me, they taught for 40 years. They didn't get paid, right? So now in Chicago, 150 Catholic schools have closed in the last 50 years and the gangs filled the void of the parish.

Wow. The parish was a good thing. That says a lot. Yeah. And everybody, you know, it worked. The Catholic school system, when the urban poor were white, the Germans, the Italians, the pole, they saved millions of us and it worked. And everybody went golfing in the suburbs. They forgot where they're from. So, uh,

Oh, say that again. That's really interesting. What you just saw system dagger John use in New York city was like, he's buried at St. Patrick's and not many people are. And they called him Dagger John because he signed a big cross that looked like a dagger. This is a priest, an Irish priest. And he went to the mayor of New York City and said, why won't you let the Irish Catholic kids in your Protestant schools?

And the mayor said, because you're a disease-ridden, filthy, violent animals. So John Hughes says, well, give me some money and I'll educate the Catholic kids. And the mayor had a security throw John Hughes down the stairs of City Hall in New York City. And then John Hughes that afternoon started the Catholic school system in New York. St. John's, Fordham, all these wonderful schools, and all privately funded. Not a government nickel, but the teachers taught for free. Now there's not many nuns and brothers and Jesuit priests around, right? And so the math of it didn't work, right?

But it isn't fair, because at this point, I ask all the time, should faith-based Christian and Catholic schools be only for rich kids? I'll ask you that. Obviously not, but they are. Should they be racially segregated? No. But they are. If you look at a picture, except for the guy who runs a four or five in conduct. That's true. Everybody's got a couple. They got Jamal and Tyrone out there, man.

So we started this. I'll get into our school later on when we talk about that, but it's just not right. And so the Catholic School of System America did a great job. Think about this, 1918, a constitutional amendment passed called prohibition banning alcohol, whether it worked or not doesn't matter. But that was because of the Irish in Boston, New York, Chicago, the family starving to death and the guys drunk cleaning in the street with his bending his whole paycheck. And that changed the Catholic school system, changed everything. I don't know how strong it was down here in Memphis, but I'm sure there's some good Catholic

schools here. No, it's actually still pretty strong here. And so that's where I went. So I went with a thousand boys, had a great experience there. And then my father was dying of cancer. I had offers to play Villanova. Rice I visited. First time I ever heard people say, y'all better. So, but I'm 45 minutes away from Columbia University in New York City. So, we were training in

a bus. So, I went and played at Columbia trying to turn the program around. I was in a powerful four, five, and one team, which for Columbia is pretty good. And so look, I go to a school and half the school looks like Woody Allen. So how are you going to be good in football? Right? My classmates, listen to my graduating class. Here's my class. Obama graduate with, um, he transferred in as a sophomore from Occidental to Columbia to general study. So he was, he came in as a sophomore. George Stephanopoulos

from Good Morning America wrestled. These are all my graduating class. Obama, Stephanopoulos, McGreevey, who was a governor of New Jersey and left his wife for a guy, which at Columbia University is like a noble thing. So this guy is on the Jersey shore. He's governor of New Jersey and is making out with a guy on the lifeguard stand and it dumps over and breaks his leg. And that's how he kind of got out it. I wouldn't do that in high school, man, with my girlfriend. Like that's up, I wouldn't do that in high school, man, with my girlfriend. Like that's a, right? True story. Couldn't make this up.

And then Patterson replaced Elliot Spitzer. He was an African American partially blind guy because I remember I ran the Columbia University pub, drinking age was 18. Great job for a future alcoholic, right? Running the school pub. And Patterson would be reading a book, get a picture of Heineken in the corner of the bar. We had cheap trick and live bands. I mean, it was Mommy's All Right. Yeah, hold it. No, you don't have to tell me cheap trick. That's one of my favorite

bands. This is Columbia University's pub, 500 people, and he's reading a novel in the corner drinking a pitcher of Heineken. And he became the governor. And you're a great guy. Because Elliott Spitzer got out of it and he was next in line. So that was, that's a classic Columbia, right? Blue collar kid from New Jersey hanging out with people like all kinds of people. So. This culture shock. Yeah. I didn't even know it was the Ivy league until I got recruited to play. So.

You had no idea. And I didn't have to play. So, and then Columbia was five, but my son just graduated. Two of my boys just graduated. I got a lot of kids. I missed that birth control section of the life. I was not in there. Hey, if the good guys have a lot of kids, maybe we can change this thing. I tell my kids and all the students and everybody I coach, make more good people.

We need some more good people. It's fun doing it. Do it with your best friend. So here I'm at Columbia and I remember this. It's freshman orientation. We're sitting in a room and 40 of us on our floor and you have to introduce yourself. And the guy before me is, I'm Chauncey Phillips III. My father was captain of the squash team at Yale and blah, blah, blah. And I said, I'm Bubba. I'm from Bayonne. That's in France. You've probably never heard of it because it is named after Bayonne, France.

So, but you know, you fake it till you make it. And if you got in, my teammates, football, you know, the dumb guys are smart at Columbia, right? So my teammate, Paul McCarty played football and running back and he's like the best cardiovascular surgeon in the world maybe, right? And so a lot of guys went on to do really well. So, and a lot of people quit football. I think that's one of the reasons. You start with 50 freshmen and I think 14 of us finished. A lot of the kids finished school, but it's pretty hard to go to school and put four hours into football. And then we play- It's hard to do it at any school, much less Ivy league. Yeah. And freshman year I played baseball too. And they're not giving you breaks in the classroom if you're an athlete. I wouldn't say they hated us, but there was a little anti-Jock thing going on.

Really? Yeah. We were, the jocks were the dumb guy. They stereotyped us, right? So fortunately we had Barnard College across the street, Fashion Institute of Technology, a lot of other schools that would come visit us. So you graduated from Columbia. Yeah.

And then I was admitted to a joint program, business and law school, which is a prestigious thing at the time. And that summer I got a job. That's not bad for a dumb job. Yeah. And I got a job working for Mayor Koch, right? That summer. And so I ended up taking my MBA, but I didn't finish law school.

And I went to work for the city under mayor Koch, who was phenomenal guy. Right. I don't know if you remember him. Oh yeah. So Koch looked like Frank Purdue, the chicken. Right. Only he's 6'6", 300 with Frank Purdue's face. Right.

Remember that? Yeah. So he just loved the city with a passion. Single guy. I don't know what people would say, but I'd never saw, I'm pretty good gaydar and I didn't see that on him, but he, he was just a riot. And he loved his city and he was handed from and at that point it was fear city. Remember the movie death wish with Charles Bronson? Well, yeah. And 2000 murders at that. I was about to say, at that time, New York would have unraveled. Columbia, we lost a kid or two every year, a student.

Really? Yeah, crazy stuff. To crime. To shot or stabbed to death. Because Columbia's in Harlem right now. It's a giant Starbucks. It's like the safest place in America. So I remember these guys were playing football in the middle

of the campus and this young African-American guy's running by said he'd hit me. So the kid threw him the ball, he caught it, just boom. Kept going, right? He ran off. He caught the ball in full stride and was gone. That was just classic.

We used to have to put locks on our cars, right? Cause my battery got stolen monthly out of the car. And people were killed. So then came Giuliani. Well, hold it. Let's go back. What did you do for Mayor Cobb? I was in labor relations. So we might've saved the city of New York. A bunch of guys at Columbia Business School and Frank Havlicek and Professor Ray Horton started a thing called Overtime Equalization with the unions Ray Horton started a thing called overtime equalization with the unions.

Cause guys were bankrupting the city. When you're 65, you weren't, you got, you get like 60% of your last year's pay. And all of a sudden the guys getting all the overtime has last year making 200 grand. He's going to get one 20 he's a fireman. Right? So, we started overtime equalization where they have big sun. Now it's all computerized, but you had a big board and nobody could get 60 hours ahead of anybody else. So the old guy couldn't load up and it saved the city hundreds of millions of dollars in pension over, you know,

it was a bunch of guys in a case of beer at Columbia business school doing that. And so, um, so we, I was like a Columbia whiz kid with an MBA. I'm 26 and I'm playing rugby at that point for Old Blue. Couldn't play football. They said, why didn't you play pro football? Cause the other guys were better than me. They were bigger and faster. There was only one reason. Cause I wasn't good enough.

We played Rutgers in the Meadowlands and that, and they beat us like 47 to seven. And we were three and one at that time. And it was the first college game in the Meadowlands. And all of a sudden, and they game in the metal lands. And, uh, and all of a sudden, and maybe Tennessee, the following week, Rutgers was starting to get good, right? And they shouldn't have been playing us. And like everything was just happening a little bit faster. Everybody's just like,

you know, if you were blocking down on a guy, he was gone. You couldn't get to him at time. They're like shop legs and stuff. But it was great fun. I was working there playing rugby for the Old Blue, really competitive rugby. We lost in the national championship a couple of times. Rugby is a great game. It's one of the fastest growing sports in America. We have a thing called Memphis Inner City Rugby.

Yeah, I know that. They've been up and visited Chicago. Have they? Oh yeah. Okay, well. We saw them in Washington, DC last year. They played in a tournament. Yeah. And they, it is not only a great game, but they are turning inner city kids. We want to stay champ. Rugby's gotten professional now.

There's a new league about five years old and the hounds in Chicago practice at our place. So if you wonder why United States loses to New Zealand and South Africa for 50 to nothing in rugby, it's because they're getting paid and we're not. Now you're starting to pay our guys. We'll get good. Just put the money on the table. And we'll so, so, and it's just a great game. You know, you don't dance when you score. He handed the ball to the ref act like you scored before. So I'm gonna make up some day where the Bears guy is mocking the fans and he misses the last play and we lose the game on or you blow your knee dancing. Yeah. So that also happens. Yeah. So it's just a really great and the home team is required

to feed host and feed the visiting team every game. And that is magical. I had a friend that was from Liverpool in college. Actually he was studying to get his doctorate. Believe it or not, I played a little football and all that and then actually I hurt my shoulder and I played soccer. And he used to say that rugby, he would say that soccer is a gentleman's game played by ruffians and rugby is a ruffians game played by gentlemen. Yeah, you rarely see a fight.

Sometimes you see a fight, but rarely. A fight in a rugby game really was a big changing thing in my life. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors. But first, I hope you'll follow us on your favorite social media channels where we share more powerful content, including reels from our video studio and testimonials from Army members. We're at Army of Normal Folks on every channel. Give us a follow. We'll be right back. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm

exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha B., Roy Wood Jr.,

and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, James Brown,

BB King, Miriam Makeba. I shook up the world. James Brown said, said hello. And Makeba said, I'm black and I'm proud. Black boxing stars and black music royalty together in the heart of Zaire, Africa. Three days of music and then the boxing event. What was going on in the world at the time

made this fight as important that anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to Rumble, the story of a world in transformation. The 60s and prior to that, you couldn't call a person black.

And how we arrived at this peak moment. I don't have to be what you want me to be. We all came from the continent of Africa. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. But hurry, submissions close on December 8th. Hey, you've been doing all that talking, it's time to get rewarded for it. Submit your podcast today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards.

That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Hey, y'all, I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast, When You're Invisible, is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before. Season two is all about community, organizing, and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it. I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits.

They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like be respectful. We're made out of the same things, bone, body, blood. It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible as part of the MyCultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba.

He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian.

Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well.

Listen to Chess Piece, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the MyCultura podcast network, available on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, I'm playing rugby. To me, I never smoked pot, never smoked a cigarette like my father did. I had from lung cancer, three packs a day, Chesterfield King. It was 30 cents and he always gave me 50. So I knew I had 20 cents for candy.

It's great incentive, right? Bringing home cigarettes. So, but when I was in business school, when I was in, I was a senior in college, I'm running the pub, so it's Thursday, Friday, Saturday night till three in the morning, and a guy comes up to me and says, "'You look tired, man, try this. "'Art Hongsuckle.'"

He's sober now, so he wouldn't mind me saying his name. He was a prince from Taiwan, and he had cocaine. I never knew, I never took hardcore drugs So I tried it and I went home and studied Right, and this is from 4 to 6 a.m. And the next night he was by tried it again in the third night He said hey, is it cheaper if we get a lot of that? Yeah, and I didn't know You know, I picked what you know, just suck it up. How could someone be an alcoholic or an addict?

When you start doing that, I mean, it's just, it's hard to stop it. So I wouldn't do it for a month, but when I, I was a streaky guy like that, but I would go out on Thursday night and you'd see me on Sunday. So, and we had all this creative stuff. We had a sippy cup, um, like an, you know, he'd give to your kids or your grandkids so they don't spill their drink with us. We'd crush an ounce of cocaine in that, which is that's prison time. Right. And I'd have it in my car with the sippy cup. So if I ever get pulled over,

the cops are never going to think there's cocaine in the sippy cup. You're kidding me. And I'm going to work for the mayor banging up. Are you serious? Because the drug is a stimulant. So it's not like a pot guy or a drunk who's staggering around. You're actually on top of it. Right. So, um, yeah, so it's not like a pot guy or drunk who's staggering around you're actually on top of it, right? So yeah, it's kind of expensive Yeah, and that was my bail thing wanting to act like a big shot, you know Cuz I'm now I'm working making money with the city

I'm running a club three nights of them making money and acting like a big deal all that and that was My and when I made a searching and fearless moral inventory, which is the fourth step of NA NAA, it was all about that, trying to act like a big shot, right? So hold it. Can I just make sure I heard what I just heard? You've got cocaine in a child's sippy cup, working for the mayor and running a club, doing life in New York in your late twenties and playing rugby. Yeah, playing hard rugby.

That sounds pretty normal. So, the great thing about rugby, there's usually three or four sides. So, if you're not on the A team, somebody has a B team, the other team, and your second string and third string. So, I played the game, was better at that than football. I mean, concussions. And people say, Oh, you don't get concussions and rugby cause you hit with your shoulder. That's that's assuming the guy doesn't move.

My job is to go get a concussion. And when you got one, they put you next to the keg. Right. That was, that was, that was a concussion protocol. What was it? What was it saying? He got his bell rung. He got it. Yeah. Right? There it is. So I'm not condoning this behavior.

So I'm on the sideline, finished my game, got the sippy cup, and a guy gets thrown. Hold it. You're hanging out with a concussion by the keg and you got your sippy cup. Yeah. Well, because you probably need to wake up a bit. Yeah, because I had to run the club that night. Right. So, this guy is thrown out of the B-side game for fighting, right?

And somebody says to me, that guy is a priest. So I go over with my sippy cup, it's BJ Weber, the shepherd of Times Square, evangelical pastor in Times Square, New York City, and he played rugby. He just moved from Iowa where he played rugby and came to Christ there, picked up by a trappistine monk. So I offer him Pacific Cup. He turns me down and gives me a business card, BJ Weber, Lamb's Church, 130 West 44th Street and dares me to come to his church. The next morning with a brutal hangover, I go to this church, right? And people are calling for a fair catch when they're singing and they're in. I mean, they were singing this way. They knew the words and they were

into it and they were homeless people, middle-class people. Everybody was there. Hold it. They were calling for a fair catch when they're singing. But waving their hands. Waving their hands. That's hilarious. No, but at this point, I've never been in a non-Catholic church. So yeah. Yeah, you're used to, yeah. Kneel down, stand up, man.

Yeah. And I'm not saying that was bad. So and after, everybody eats. They put up tables and chicken and all these people. And I'm like, there's a guy who smells really bad sitting next to a family with their three kids. And this is how church, now I know this is how church supposed to be. Right. So don't tell the rich man, come and have a good seat until the poor man sit over there somewhere in Matthew.

So I, uh, I started to go to this church and work on one night a week that I'm still doing my Jacqueline high thing, right? But I'm going to the church and I get invited to the presidential prayer breakfast by BJ Weber and those guys in Washington, DC. Oh, why? Cause they're, they're the lamps. They're like this cutting edge New York city church. And I've been working on Wednesday night with the youth group. You know who I was working with? Mike DeDeRono and Denny rule.

And Denny rule had a little kid that little five year old year old, Matt. So Matt Rule, head coach in Nebraska, who was- You're kidding me. He's running around at the Lamb's Church on 44th street when he was a little boy. So he was born in- Are you serious? Matt Rule was born in New York City. No kidding. And he turned around Temple, he turned around Baylor,

and then he did a year in the pros, which you can't turn stuff around because they'll tell you what to do. Right? It's all about money. So now he's in Nebraska. Baylor and then he did a year in the pros, which you can't turn stuff around cause they'll tell you what to do. Right. It's all about money. And now he's in Nebraska and he still goes and has dinner at people's houses when he's recruiting kids. It was just a wonderful, but his dad was a key guy who I'm still in touch with at the lambs church, assistant pastor. So I got, when I get down to DC and I didn't realize, this prayer breakfast is a big thing at that Hilton and they have that mother Teresa speak and it's a massive thing. Yeah. It's smaller now. They've toned it down cause the Biden and them didn't want to go to it cause

they might ask hard questions, right? Catholics for abortion. So don't get me started. No, we want no filters. It's the greatest thing ever. So I say, give me my ticket. I'll meet you guys there. So I go out. Somehow I went to dinner with an old girlfriend

and her husband, which is so stupid, right? That's weird. Yeah. And I end up in College Park, Maryland, at a big bar with big bouncers. And I'm wondering, why do they have all these bouncer? Now I'm just, are you here to go to the prayer breakfast the next morning? But you're okay. I'm just following along.

Like I'm not an alcoholic. I just go drinking at a bar where I don't know, know anybody in a city where I don't know anybody. Right. Of course. It doesn't everybody do that. I didn't have it. Okay. This is important. So, um, I, uh, a fight breaks out and all of a sudden the bar gets packed. It's College Park, Maryland, North Carolina basketball game across the street. I wonder why do they have these big bouncers? Because the bar is going to get packed. So somebody, this kid stole a long hair tattooed up kid stole a purse and the bouncers grabbed

him and they were holding him on the ground. I saw this one bouncer kicked the kid in the face once and the second time I just it wasn't even my fight he was going for the kids face and I just nailed him right why you felt sorry for the long haired hippie kid yeah and I had I'm spider-man after ten drinks gonna save everybody right so I nailed him and the other guy bounce, it breaks a Heineken bottle, goes from my face and I catch it. He puts it right through my hand. So I got the bottle stuck in my hand, like the broken bottle.

Through your hand? Yeah. And I hammered his face with a, you know, the heavy beer mug. That's got some serious, that gets you serious. And I hit him perfect. So his face is on the other side of the room. The other guy, I got a hang. I'm handcuffed.

Assault would intend to maim. Malicious destruction of property and battery. Did you not explain to everybody you were just taking up for the kid? Yeah, I did. But they didn't want to hear it. And court later on, they were fighting at bar every night and those bouncers were always in some stuff like they were looked gun and for You're supposed to be a protector not the aggressor. You're the bouncer. So

Anyway, I'm locked up and two days later. I get a phone call buddy in New York calls BJ He they come and bail me hundred thousand dollar bail. I have and this is what this is 80s So that'd be a lot of money now. I lot of money then When you see a guy in a hot right after a fight and he's got sling, it looks a lot worse than it is in a couple of days. It's not so bad, but right after the fight you got him. So he's like Chuck Wepner, right?

Give it a week to cool down. So BJ bails me out with Brad Curl who played at Oklahoma, spoke French and was a beautiful artist. He had an Art Gallery in Washington DC. So much for all Christian guys being boring, right? Plays for Oklahoma, speaks a lot of different languages as an artist, right? And Pat Ruane, a Catholic guy, they come up with the 10,000 bucks because when you bail someone, which I've done many times, you need to pay 10% cash, which is a big topic right now because a lot of people don't have the cash

So basically the poor black kids can't get out and if you have money, you can't get out, right? So That's a whole nother argument Usually when you're in there though, you're not in there because you didn't do anything So they bail me out and I pray to receive Christ outside the Prince George's County jail, which is a rough jail Holy BJ and these two other guys Christian guys bail me out of jail and they pray with me. Brad Curl says to me when I get out of jail, he hugs me. Big guy, Barra. He said, you remind me of Paul.

And I said, Paul who? Remember when Paul got knocked over? So, but if they were praying to Bogwon, you bail me out of jail, I'm probably going to go your way that way, right? But I prayed with them and then we drove back to New York and I get back in my apartment and my drinking party buddy, David Yellow, calls me up and says, hey, let's go meet tonight. And I go, I got a court case coming for some bouncers assault charges in a bar.

I quit drinking and all. He goes, no, meet me tonight. So I meet him at 79th Street and Lexington Avenue in New York City. I know it. I know it. 79th and Lex. I know that. Yeah. It's a, like, it's, there's a meeting. I don't know if there's still meetings. It's an AA meeting. So I pray to receive Christ in the morning in Washington and that night, by mistake, end up in an AA meeting with my old drinking buddy who's still sober today

and I keep him in good touch with him. So I got sober and saved the same day. How old are you at this time? 65. No, at this time... Oh, when I did that, 28. Okay. Yeah, 28, 29.

Yeah. So, anyway, do the questions get harder as we go along? No, these are more fun. So, so... How old are you? Even I remember that. We'll be right back. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted.

But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Astead Herndon, but we're also gonna have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron, but we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee,

Roy Wood Jr., and Charlamagne the God. We're gonna take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me,

Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, James Brown, BB King, Miriam Makeba. I shook up the world. James Brown said, said, love. And the kid said, I'm black and I'm proud. Black boxing stars and black music royalty

together in the heart of Zaire, Africa. Three days of music and then the boxing event. What was going on in the world at the time made this fight as important as anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to Rumble, the story of a world in transformation. The 60s and prior to that you couldn't call a person black. And how we arrived at this peak moment. I don't have to be what you want me to be.

We all came from the continent of Africa. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. But hurry, submissions close on December 8th. Hey, you've been doing all that talking, it's time to get rewarded for it. Submit your podcast today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Hey, y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast, When You're Invisible, is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants

who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before. Season 2 is all about community, organizing, and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it. I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account, or else I can't get disability benefits.

They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like, be respectful. We're made out of the same things, bone, body, blood. It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible as part of the MyCultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with.

His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Piece, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So some 28. tests.

So some 28. Yeah. And I had a five, six, six year run. Given everything you've told us so far. Yeah. I packed a lot in there. Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess, but think about that.

Was it sitting in jail that woke you up? You see what I'm saying? You got one phone call. Does anyone know there?. They soaked me up, the doctor didn't even give me anything. They pulled the thing out and the jail doctor soaked me. It was great, right? That came out really nice. Can you imagine if that was on your face? You'd have to make up a really good story. I don't think you have to make anything up. It's a pretty good story. But what I'm saying is, you have to make anything. But what I'm saying is what happened between the day you missed the prayer breakfast for a bar fight and two days later? Well, I'm sitting in jail and the guys bailed me out with a big number, right? So I'm on

it. Remember Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kids? They're being chased and they kept saying, who are those guys? That kid couldn't, they couldn't lose them. And thenidy and the Sundance kids? Sure. They're being chased and they kept saying, who are those guys? They couldn't lose them. Right. And then BJ and the Christian guys were like that. Who are these guys? Yeah, the real Christian guy. In the book of James 1.22, it says, do not merely listen to the word and so deceive yourselves,

do what it says. And with a lot of fun, at the Lamb's Church in New York City, so before this, I'm doing, it was the beginning of AIDS. So the Lambs had two rooms with bunk beds of 24, so 48 guys in there dying of AIDS. And in those days, you died in six months. It looked like Auschwitz, right? Guys are really dying. In those days, you got AIDS, you died in six months, man. There was no cocktail. And they're mostly active homosexual guys and drug abusers. And BJ and Denny Ruhl and all these, we're doing these guys' diapers. We don't know what, I don't have any gloves on, I'm just changing these

poor guys are dying, right? And his blood, it was a mess. And actually, you know, the liberal people were watering their plants in Greenwich Village when a down and dirty work of serving these people dying of AIDS was the Catholic nuns at St. Vincent's, people at the Lamb's Church, the Christian churches really served like nobody's business, asking no questions, how did you get AIDS? The bottom line is this guy's dying and I'm called by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to help these people. And the Lamb's was quietly doing that. And so they were just, so my first witnesses of cry, a real down and dirty Jesus people were pretty fired up people.

Right. And so I had really good examples of that. And then now, and now they're bailing me out of jail. Who are these guys? They're the followers of Christ. And they did it laughing and joking like BJ. He could drop some serious F-bombing. He was not a big tough guy playing rugby.

Right. So Denny rules played small college quarterback. Mike Tirana was a hockey player. I mean, these are not wimpy little guys. They're dudes. Not that wonderful, does not wonderful, soft Christian people. There are, but these are not my guys. And that might not have done it for me.

So then I got serious about the church. Father William Wilson comes and speaks at the church and he's just started a ministry in Iowa, in Bolivia, South America. So instead of going, now I'm sober two months and instead of going to Club Med to chase girls with my, I go to Bolivia to help this priest for a two week vacation. And my friends are going, Bolivia, isn't that where the cocaine is from? You done, as we say on the west side of Chicago, you done lost your mind. So now I'm in Bolivia. I was actually with Mick Luckers who kick for the Falcons.

He was there with NFL Charities and this is where I meet Mick Luckers. I meet him at Aramacy Bolivia. He's there for two weeks for NFL Charities and I'm there to help out this priest I met in New York. And this sick sick baby, Mick and I and the father drive him three hours down the mountain to Coach Obama, which is a modern city like that. And we go to the hospital with a sick baby and they won't let us in because the babies catch you up. And we're like the other, now I'm sober two months now, right?

And I'm thinking Christianity is going to be this boring, right? Oh, I'm not going months now, right? And I'm thinking Christianity is gonna be this boring, and then, right? Oh, I'm not gonna have fun anymore. So we go to this doctor who treats Indians, and I could see by the look on his face, I remember it like I just said, this was a serious situation, and the baby dies in my arms in the living room. Little Ketchwa Indian boy, and I got-

Are you serious? I got, Luckhurst, me, and the father have to drive up the mountain for three hours with the dead baby. So I ended up staying there for about 14 months. I called all of work, said I'm going to take some time off. And I really got rooted in the scripture down there. I was back and forth a bunch of times with Sister Columbus, Sister Lourdes. When people start, a lot of the evangelicals say the Catholics are trying to work their way into heaven or No, their works are like filthy rags, but they're created in Christ Jesus to do good works, right? And with the most intense Jesus people often I've seen are Catholic, right?

Even in the inner city of Chicago, like this guy. You want to get some work done? Give me hungover Catholic guys We got some good guilt working And the evangelicals are praying for me on the 14th hole of the country club. We got some good guilt working. Yeah, that was me. We let a lot of Catholics to Christ through the little league and all that, because they don't, Catholics in Chicago, big Catholic town, Mayor Dale, big Irish Catholic, ethnic Catholic, and they don't care what we say, they watch what we do. Right? Let your light so shine before men so they will see your good works and glorify the Father. So here I am, the mission is always broke, they got no money,

I'm back in New York City, my guys I graduated with, they got big houses in Greenwich, Connecticut, they're 30 years old now. How'd you get that? Yeah, but you spent 14 months in Bolivia hanging out with a priest. Your whole network in New York has now moved on, I would assume. Well, no, I'm asking them for help, which is sort of like to help this mission. But the mission was always broke. So I went into the financial markets in New York City then because I'm like, well, my MO, and that's what we do now, we can make a lot of money and live low and give a lot of money away, right? You know, do not, Matthew 6, do not store up your treasures on earth where moth and rust corrupt and thieves break in and steal. Store up your treasures in heaven for where your treasures are, there will your heart be also.

So what does that mean? It says do not. Did you learn that in Bolivia? I got time to really read it then. Yeah, yeah. Seriously, I'm not being smart. It wasn't a whole lot to do, right? Well, I mean, you know, except for help, but you, first of all, your storytelling is so good. You need to have a podcast cause you're hilarious, but you skip something. You drove up a mountain with a dead baby and you stayed 14 months.

Yeah. up a mountain with a dead baby and you stayed 14 months. I think there's a whole lot germane to your life story in from that drive to 14 months later. Tell me about that. And still, you can still once in a while, you know, when I go to my friend's giant house in Naples, you know, Naples, they call it the Chicago Riviera Naples, Florida. Yeah. And I got a little pang of like me me and I could have done and then like in New York New York, grand, I think it's a nice suburbs of Chicago and then uh about a day later. Well, what are you gonna do tomorrow?

There's nobody out here to help Everything looks like it's fine. Right got great window dressing So but I but the mission was broke So I come back to new y City and went into the business, investment business, and made some dough. And met my wife there, who was a foreign currency trader, at BJ's house. His wife invited 10 girls and he invited 10 guys.

And we didn't know that. Bruce Harper played for the New York Jets. He was there. So what was it, a big setup thing? Yeah, it was kind of. Kind of like a college mixer. Yeah, on 32nd Street in Manhattan. So people in their late 20s, early 30s.

So three of 10 people got met and got married from that. No kidding. At BJ's house. So, and my wife became a Christian at Brentwood Academy in Nashville. In Nashville? Yeah, she was in one of the early classes. Chicago Hope Academy in New York City is modeled on Brentwood Academy in Nashville. Okay, let's not skip to that.

I mean, in Chicago. So she became a Christian there. And so she won a rotary scholarship and studied in Scotland for it. She was a five handicap, really good golfer. My wife was a good golfer. And so you couldn't be more like, we're just opposite. I'm a city guy. She's from Tennessee. Her mom, God bless her still alive. It took her a while to like, she needed an interpreter with me. Hey, now I'm fixing to do that right quick. Right quick. You mean in the hurry? Right. So that was a lot. So while I got married, we got married in, uh, Brentwood and at 1pm,

the wedding was a night wedding. Weep, Oh blue rugby played the Tennessee all stars. So I played at one, get married at seven, a black guy, my best man broke his ribs. And my, my wife's great aunt was Minnie Pearl. Come on. So the girls, are you kidding me? The girls went to Minnie Pearl's house, who's the opposite of that character. Minnie Pearl's one that always still had the price tag hanging off her hat on E-Lar. My wedding album, the girls all have that and we're all banged up playing rugby.

Lovely photos, I'm sure. Oh yeah. It was a lot of mine in New York. We were at the Brentwood Marriott and I ran out of Coke and had a FedEx at the hotel for the wedding. Unbelievable. So, and I have a lot of guys and when bad stuff happens, that's when they call me, right? So even to this day, I get asked to speak. And they say, when are you going to be Muzz again instead of Born Again? Yeah. But when people get in trouble, they know what to call, right? So

that's kind of been our MO, right? You could live great on X amount of dollars. Tithing is you're supposed to tithe your first dollar. I tell my kids if you make a hundred dollars, you're supposed to be. But once you start making some money, I mean tithing, you make a million dollars, you keep 900. Like what? What versus that? So at one point, you become a 50% guy, right? What's the guy's name? Well, no, not right, actually. No, I think it's pretty thin air, someone that comes a 50% guy. Yeah. That guy in- So no, not right. What's the guy's name in California the ministry wrote that great book

The 40 things should go you read every day Stephen Covey know Rick Warren. Yeah, he's like So and I you know this if you could walk with Kings and not lose the common touch if all men count with you But none too much. I like going to retreat and you stay at the Ritz-Carlton Naples. I like that, right? I I have a big brownstone in the heart of what was a bad neighborhood. It's changed a lot, but I got a fireplace. So I don't do that. I save for when I'm old. It's part of my career is getting people to do that. But the third house and the fourth house, come on right so naples reckonridge chicago come on so jackson your father william wilson the priest in bilivy who lives in birmingham now he's still

alive right will's 83 84 he's still super fit and he said stuff he said this to me what's the difference between the brand new 200 000 dollar porsche and a real nice Ford, feeding the whole orphanage for a year. That's the difference in price, right? You can buy a quarter million dollar car, you can buy a nice $50,000 car, they both get you the same place, and an extra $200,000 could feed the whole orphanage for a year. And he would say things like that, right? There's three things you can be. You could be passionate about doing ministry, passionate about funding it, or disobedient. That's all you can be, right? And some of it overlaps, like you coach and you give, right? So, but,

you know, if you have the gift of giving, mind or giving and exhortation, right? If you have that gift, it helps to have the gift of getting, right? I mean, all the things that we run, the football program, we built an inner city high school from scratch. We run the biggest, uh, inner city baseball program in the country. We had a farm for drug addicts. And so that all takes money. I'm a capitalist to the core. You're supposed to make all you can. The best thing you do is you employ a bunch. What ministry you employ a ton of people. We just, that's the best minister you can do.

We just released recently a podcast from Todd Comernicki, who is the director of the movie Bonhoeffer, Pastor Spa, and Assassin. It was a really great event. Eric Metaxas is a dear friend of mine. He wrote the book. He's a dear friend of yours. You have many interesting friends. Who did I meet him through? BJ. Of course, why not? Metaxas. But the one of the things that Todd continued to hammer to the audience was money is not the root of all evil. It's the love of money. And, you know, that's an important distinction and I'm hearing the same thing from you.

It's not making money, it's not doing well, and it's not having a comfortable life for your family. But the excesses are where it gets to be a problem. Yeah, you can do a lot with those access. And that concludes part one of my conversation with Bob Muszikowski. And you don't want to miss part two that's now available to listen to. It just keeps getting better. Together guys, we can change this country, but it'll start with you. I'll see you in part two. Hey, everyone. It's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the homestretch, right in time for a new season of my podcast,

Next Question. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Jen Psaki, Estet Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some fun thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee and Charlemagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The 2025 iHeart Podcast Awards are coming. This is the chance to nominate your podcast for the industry's biggest award. Submit your podcast for nomination now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. But hurry, submissions close on December 8th. Hey, you've been doing all that talking, it's time to get rewarded for it. Submit your podcast today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards.

That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, 1974. George Foreman was champion of the world. Ali was smart and he was handsome. Story behind the Rumble in the Jungle is like a Hollywood movie. But that is only half the story. There's also James Brown, Bill Withers, B.B. King, Miriam Makeba, all the biggest black artists on the planet, together in Africa. It was a big deal.

Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Piece, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

wherever you get your podcasts. Hey y'all, I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. When You're Invisible is my love letter to the working-class people and immigrants who shaped me. Season 2 shares stories about community and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it. We get paid to serve you, but we're made out of the same things. It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.