An Army of Normal Folks - Branden and Ashley Stathes: An Army of Generous Folks (Pt 1)

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

50 friends paid off their college debt, 7 families helped them buy a house, and they joined in on buying cars for 4-5 people. Branden and Ashley are members of an extraordinary Army of Generous Folks and show us what living in community can look like!Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She gets on the mic and she says, we wanted a night to bless y'all, but really what we're here for is for the last year, we've seen y'all fight and tooth and nail and grind to pay off your student loan debt. And just as much as Jesus has paid the debt of your sins, we want you to know that you're debt free. Tonight. And we're like, what? She goes, we've paid off,

all of us here have paid off the rest of your debt. [♪ music playing, [♪ music playing, Welcome to an Army of Normal Folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father.

I'm an entrepreneur. And I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis. And that last part, well, it's somehow led to an Oscar for the film about our team. It's called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks. That's us.

Just you and me deciding, hey, you know what, maybe I can help. That's what Brandon and Ashley Stathis, the voices you just heard have done. Not only have they been the beneficiaries of radical love from their own army of normal folks, but they've also catalyzed this army to bless many others too. I cannot wait for you to meet them right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question.

This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlemagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on,

this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious, one in 10 kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Vaping? Irreversible lung damage series. One in ten kids vape series.

Which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know-it-all sports dad. Or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously. The best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation visit TalkAboutVaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung Association and the Ad Council.

Brandon and Ashley, stathis? Stathis. Stathis. It's whatever you really want these days. Brandon and Ashley Stathis? Stathis. It's whatever you really want these days. What is this Greek abbreviated name you've got here? Stathis? It used to be Stathopolis.

It's now Stathis. I did it right that time. Welcome to Memphis. Thank you. Sure is good to be here. Came from Austin, right? Austin, Texas. How do you get from Austin to Memphis?

I guess you fly, there's no direct flight, is there? They hit us to Atlanta. Ah, you flew Delta. Yes. Well, good. So you guys excited about the playoffs? Are you UT fans? Oh yeah.

I actually went to their rival school, OU. Oh, did you? University of Oklahoma. You're an OU grad? But he did ministry. Well, y'all don't even have a football team anymore. Thank you. Get out of here.

I mean, was that football you guys played this year? I'm not really sure. No, that's a yes. I just specifically remember Ole Miss going to a place called Norman this year and absolutely thumping this group of people that had helmets. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't win.

That's true, y'all have been winning for a while, so it should be over. Did you go to UT? No, I just did ministry at UT for 15 years, so I feel like I've done four or five educational cycles without having no degree, no, but I went to Jacksonville State in Atlanta. So you and Makana Hay are pals then?

Oh yeah, we're buddies. He's a great guy. He wears the same leather jacket. I tell him, it stinks, you should put on a different leather jacket, but if you watch, he has the same, I think it's his same leather jacket. I tell him, it stinks. He should put on a different leather jacket. But if you watch, he has the same, I think it's his lucky leather jacket. He pulls it off though.

If it's lucky, you gotta rock it. He pulls it off. All right, so you got here last night. Yeah. Got here last night. Got to Memphis, then did you get to do anything in Memphis at all last night? Did Alex do anything besides put you in a Motel 6? We hear there's only one thing to do in Memphis

and that's see the ducks. And so we did. Oh, there's a lot of things more to do in Memphis than see the ducks. We rushed to the ducks. We rushed to the ducks. And they rushed to the elevator and then said goodbye to us and then we went and ate.

It was great. It was great. We went on Beale Street, very fun. Yeah, we went on Beale Street. Good. Walked. Yeah, walked. Was it raining?

No. Drizzling. So you're fine. So it was good. It was great. So we got to see the ducks. For those listening to us, the Peabody is a hotel in downtown Memphis that's been there forever. And back in the 30s, I think it was some inebriated hunters brought back some ducks and as a joke, dropped them in the fountain in the foyer or the lobby and thus started ducks in the Peabody fountain. Now they are trained to come down from the duck penthouse on the roof of the Peabody, down the elevators, walk into the fountain, hang out, and then they walk out and make a big whoop to do over.

On a red carpet. Oh yes. Yeah. Oh yes. Why wouldn't you? Yes. Lots of phones out. the fountain hang out and then they walk out and make a big whoop to do over. On a red carpet. Oh yes. Why wouldn't you? Lots of phones out. That's exactly right. So we're good. I'm glad you got to enjoy the ducks.

So normally at this time, I will introduce our guests and talk about the organization they're with. In this case, that's not what we're doing today. We talk about all the time not having to be part of some big government organization or NGO or anything else to be a part of the army of normal folks. We also frequently talk about seeing me need in your community, using your passion and abilities to meet that need. And we often get people all the time saying, you know, I just I want to get involved. I want to help. I care about my community. I care about people in my community, but I just

don't know how to start. And your guy's story really exemplifies the power of just simple kindness and generosity and how on a small scale you can do massive things. And I can't wait to tell that story to encourage and inspire folks to understand that need is everywhere and the ability to be generous and help others is abundant. And I can't wait to tell the story. But to tell the story, we kind of got to start with you guys dating, I think, really. So how'd you meet?

How does somebody from Texas and OU even begin to get together is a good question. Well, I was living in Dallas, he was living in Austin. Yeah. My sister's sister-in-law, divine woman, said, I think that you're gonna marry this guy, Brandon Stathis. And I was like, we'll see.

Had you met him? I had never met him. Didn't know who he was. She just was like, I just have this weird feeling that you guys are going to get married. I was living with her boyfriend. Yeah. So her boyfriend was Brandon's roommate, lived in a house of 10 guys after college. A house with 10 guys. It was like a mini post-grad frat house. We couldn't let college go. Yeah.

It was very sweet. And so she was like, you got to meet him, met him, and the rest is history. It was very quick. We dated nine months, in dating six months, I moved to Austin for him. Three more months, we got engaged, engaged for five months, done. That was me and Lisa. Yeah, we knew you know. From the day Lisa and I first date,

which took me five months to get her go out with me, but from that date until the day we were married was only like 14 months. Mm-hmm, I love it. I'm like wait. I fell in love. Yeah. Yeah, she fell in like, and I'm not really sure

she's all the way there after 33 years, but I keep trying real hard. So you moved to Austin. Yes, moved to Austin. What were you doing, and you were in Oklahoma? I was in Dallas, group in Dallas. Oh, that's right, I'm sorry, so what were you doing? Went to OU, I was an executive assistant,

and then moved to Austin with a lot of school debt, no job, and nowhere to live. A family took me in that he knew through Young Life, and I lived with them for my first, however many months. But I moved here because I felt like the Lord told me a date to move, a month. So I was like, I'm going to trust you, I'm going to blindly trust you. Everyone was like, you're crazy. One, you're moving to a city for a guy after dating him six months. And then two, you're moving with no job.

And you have a lot of school payments. And then my second day in Austin, we were in a soccer league. I broke my foot and they were like, I think you're going to need surgery. And I was like, okay, this is cool. Yeah, no money. No money, no nothing. So what are you doing with 10 guys in a house? What's up with that?

I think it's cheap rent. That was the only way to do it in Austin. I think it's now, you can't even do that, but it was just cheaper rent. It was a huge house. We all had jobs and we just, we went for it. And we all doubled up in a room. What were you doing for 11?

I worked for Young Life at the University of Texas. So most of the guys all had just business, corporate jobs, accountant, was an architect, engineer. Film. Film, all of the others. And I just was a ministry guy. I did college ministry at the University of Texas, loved college guys.

I had moved from the Southeast, so originally it was from Georgia, moved to Austin to take that job, to do that. So for those of our listeners that aren't real familiar with Young Life, tell us what that is. Yeah, Young Life's a relational ministry to adolescents. Really anyone, middle school, high school, college,

they do teen moms, military. And you can go on staff, you can be a Young Life leader, but it's all about going to where students are to share the love of Christ and to, we call it, earn the right to be heard. Sounds like a really crappy job. It's the crappiest job ever. And I'm gonna tell you why it sounds like a crappy job. You stayed 15 years. I went to Ole Miss and OU. Where did you go to school?

Jacksonville State. Jacksonville State? Down in Florida? Alabama. It's a sneaky place. Jacksonville, Alabama. Yeah, but where is it? It's about an hour and a half southeast of Birmingham. Okay. All right.

So we went to college. In college, there are a number of things. There are books, there are classrooms, and then beyond those two subsets of unimportant things, there's beer and fraternity and sorority life and parties and everything else. And I can only imagine the challenges associated with trying to have relational Christ-centered work done in an environment where pretty much everything that's any fun is direct opposition to that. Yeah, yeah.

So why do you do that? We love a good challenge. I think at the heart of every college student, and I think maybe people in general, it's just the desire to be known. And when I think you leave your high school, you're a big fish in a small pond. And when you come to a place like the University of Texas

or Ole Miss or OU or any big D1 school, you become a small fish in a big, big pond. And so we would encounter freshmen who just had a lot of need, even though on the outside they looked like they had it all together. They were going to do this, hit this sorority, hit that fraternity, whatnot. They really desired deep friendship. And then they also desire to figure out whether faith was their own or it was their parents. And now that's interesting. Because there's a lot of people who quote grow up in church

because their parents drag them. And, and I think those are parents in general trying to do the right thing by their children and expose them to what they think is the right fundamental basis for a meaningful life. I get it. I did it with my own children. But I also know when I went to college, even having been drugged to church by my collar as a child when I got to college, one of the

first things I thought was sleeping in on Sunday is a heck of a lot better than waking up going to church as an 18-year-old, 19-year-old. I mean, I'm first to admit that was my approach. And when the guy from campus ministry, campus life, young life and all, was at orientation smiling real big and handing me a flyer or whatever. That might have been the first thing that went in the trash basket.

Yep, yep. I rejected the notion of a kumbaya meeting at 18 years old with a bunch of other freshmen. I rejected that. I mean, I didn't want anything to do with it. Did you feel that? Oh yeah, it just depends on the person. There were definitely guys that you would feel

that stiff arm and you would kind of just- The Heisman pose. Oh, the most Heisman pose. I mean, there were some rough guys that I met early on, but man, you crave to be known. And so if all of a sudden in two weeks later, amidst going to class, I say, Hey, Jimmy. And he's like, how did you know my name? I don't want anything to do with this. Two weeks later, Jimmy, how's school going? I mean, it's like, you can't not respond.

And so there you kind of win. We would win guys over by just essentially letting them do their thing and just still being available. And then there were guys that were much more hungry and willing to be like, again, I feel like I'm a fish out of water and you're friendly and like, we're going to go do something really fun and cool. We would never lead out necessarily with, come to this Bible study.

We would just, hey, we're going to, you know, place to pick up basketball at the blah blah place this Thursday night. Come with us. And anyone who played sports was like, I'm down for that. And so I think that's kind of you can move somebody down the line till all of a sudden you've earned the right to go, hey, what if on Thursdays at four when you don't have class, me and all your buddies, we just got down on the grass and opened up the scriptures. Would you be open to doing that?

And they're like, sure. And then when you get in there, it's over. Because that first one, I look at them and go, why did you come? Because your mom doesn't even know you're here and didn't make you come. Why did you get here? And they're like, oh yeah, I guess I'm my own. They want to be their own, at least in the guy side, they want to be their own man. They want to like decide for themselves, who is Jesus? Is he real? Is he personal? Does he have

anything to do with my life? Because now it's like my life has begun. And I've already been making my own decisions anyway. So I think that crosshairs was a dynamic moment for those guys. It was for that was my journey. My mom was so afraid when she dropped me off that I was going to just go crazy. And she even said something like, I don't know, she's like offered me money. Like I think she tried to bribe me

if she's listening to this. She was cutting my hair or something and she was like, you know, if you don't, you know, if you go through college and you don't drink, like a friend of mine gave her son 150 bucks and you know, that stands for you too, which I'm like mom, come on, you can give under more than 150 bucks but I think what was more mesmerizing for me

was taking ownership of my life and faith and money started in college and actually impacted us in our life with the whole journey of generosity kind of story but I think that impacted me so much that I ended up making a career out of it and moving to Austin. And what's your degree in? Business management. I was full on business, was gonna go do finance.

Yeah, go do wealth management. And a guy who was walking with me, who had kind of pursued me very lightly was like, you should think about doing college ministry. You click with college guys. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors. But first, I hope you'll consider signing up to join the Army at normalfolks.us. By signing up, you'll receive a weekly email with short episode summaries in case you happen to miss an episode or if you prefer reading about our incredible guests. We'll

be right back. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Astead Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlamagne

the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me,

Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious? podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit TalkAboutVaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung Association and the Ad Council. Look, man, I'm looking at you. You're articulate, you're bright, you're a good looking dude. You probably were doing great in financial advisor business role and made a bunch of

money. I cannot imagine young life is a career that you're ever going to get wealthy in. No. No. So why? I think when you are, when I was in college, I just felt God's love. It was personal to me for the first time in high school, like kind of like what you said,

I think this is common for a lot of Bible Bell people. And I think it's actually becoming less and less as our country gets, I think, more and more post-Christian. But I started reading the scriptures for myself. I started interacting with God myself. He was personal to me and I was overflowing with that. So even when I was gearing up to move to Atlanta and do wealth management at a firm that I was excited about working for, family, friend, and all that stuff, I was thinking, oh, I can really love people that way. A wealth management

guy told me people get naked in front of three people, their spouse, their doctor, and their financial planner, because wherever their money goes, that's where their heart is. So you get to see their heart. And I was like, I'd love to like get there with people. But I always knew that you'd have, you know, at least 40% of your job would be paperwork and modules and Excel. And I was willing to deal with that in order to get to that other juicy stuff. And when I realized that if I did college ministry, I wouldn't have to wear the financial planner hat. I could just pursue people and go right to the jugular of like caring for them, loving

them and asking them questions to let them kind of consider their life, consider taking ownership of their faith. All right. So I went for it. In turn, I think that our experience in ministry for 15 years, we feel rich. We feel very rich, not financially rich, very spiritually rich. We've got to experience unforgettable things that, rich, we've got to experience unforgettable things that like when people's lives change, that's where the real richness is. So your, what was your degree in nationally? Communication.

Okay. So you're also lovely. Thank you. Beautiful. And hanging out in Oklahoma. And you meet this cool guy who's obviously very passionate, nice looking and everything else. But he works for Young Life. And you uproot and roll kind of knowing what you're getting into.

The ministry. Which, once again, is not financially the most fruitful thing on the face of the planet. Why? Because of this man, look at him. Love makes you do just some insane things. You're just blind. That's why your parents were like, are you sure?

No, I really had never met a man like him. A man that was intentional. And so I was like, I am sold on you, and I want to follow you. And whatever that means in ministry, thriving thriving and financially, wherever it is, I just want to be behind you. And so I was like, you know, do you make all the money in the world? No. But at the same time, God knows our needs. I had more than her because she was in debt. God knows our needs and He will provide for us.

He will see our needs and He will fulfill our needs, whether that's me working or staying home or whatever that is. And so I was like, it was just like, I love this man and I'll follow you to the ends of the earth. What a cool love affair. So how old were you at this point? 23. 23.

Yeah, 23. Okay, so on top of it, you're stupid. Young and dumb. Well, I mean, all 23 are stupid. I was a complete idiot. I still am, but that was, all right. So she shows up, and I mean, she's moved, so now you have to propose.

I mean, what else are you gonna do? There to propose. I mean, what else you gotta do? There was some pressure. Yeah, so how'd that go down? The proposal? Yeah, why not? Well, I have known to be creative when I get an idea about something. Yes, that gives him the juju in life,

the big dreaming moments. This was back in 2011. This was a dreaming moment. Before like, what are they called? Flash mobs were a thing. Flash mob proposals. They're now not a thing. But from 2013 to about 2017, they were a thing. And I wasn't thinking I want to do a flash mob.

I just thought, how could I get as many people in this, in on this as possible to surprise, bless, and just catch her off guard and show her, I love you so much? And so I did a proposal that had a bunch of people in it. My family from Georgia wasn't able to make it. So I posted on YouTube or I have a buddy film it. I posted on Facebook for my family members that's all I was thinking about and a week later had like 150 000 views. Are you kidding? Getting all these things and then a month later it had 300 000 views and this TV network is calling us to

see if they could pay for a wedding if blah blah blah and then a cruise ship asks if they can record it. It went by real quick. What did you do? A flash mob. How? Yeah, how do you explain it? I will explain it. First off, he flew me to Fredericksburg that morning in a private plane. He what?

He flew me to Fredericksburg, Texas, in a private plane. We get there, go to a field, have lunch. This family comes out, serves us lunch. We hang, we fly back. Later that evening, I was supposed to, or I had been praying about this meeting that he was supposed to have with his boss's boss all week. He fooled me.

And then I was walking in to have dinner with my girlfriends, walk into this restaurant. He's there, blindfolds me, walks me around the corner to this park, takes off my blindfold, turns me around, and there's my family, all of our friends, lots of people from different walks of life, college friends, all that. They are all holding signs and each sign correlated with something significant in our relationship. The significance of that, it was a date plus the event. And so he had basically mapped out our relationship with like a timeline

and each person that was holding the sign, each set of two people were associated with that event. So they were intimately involved in whatever kind of marker that was holding the sign, each set of two people, were associated with that event. So they were intimately involved in whatever kind of marker that was. First date, first kiss. The time that he said, I loved you, we went to the CMAs, all that kind of stuff. So it was like people would walk up with their sign, walk back. And then at the end, it was my parents when he asked for my hand in marriage. So they come up and then he hits a knee, he proposes, and then he-

No, no, no, wait. That's the best part. See, I should have told it. They come back, they're all there and they're all showing their different dates. And then I kind of nod to them and they flip over. And now all of the cards say that day. Got it. Because it was the next. Yes, it was the next big date marker. And then I hit the knee, she says yes, praise the Lord, and then we do a dance.

I still don't know why I did this. We do a dance. And then people come from around, and there was a flash mob dance. You're kidding. For no reason now that I'm thinking about it. He coordinated, choreographed. So never let it be said that guys from Young Life don't have game.

Oh man. He's got a lot of game. Oh boy. It's gone now. It's gone. Here we go. It's gone. That's awesome.

Yeah, it was very fun. Amazing. And honestly, I'm sitting here looking at you guys and clearly this is 11 years ago and the smiles on your face and the way you keep slapping each other's shoulder, finishing one another's sentences. It's obviously still a love affair.

It's beautiful. It really is. There's people in this world who should envy that in you. So, it's time to get married, but before you get married, you gotta start having conversations about important stuff. Like, how many kids do we want? Do we want kids? Where do we want to live? Is this the wife we want to have? How are we gonna do it? What are finances gonna look like and during that conversation? Brandon got a surprise. Yep. Yeah, I'm surprised we started peeling back all the layers and one of those was the financial conversation I feel like every couple goes through this where you're like, hey, how do you spend your money?

Maybe they don't, but they certainly should. I highly recommend it. Prior to getting hitched up, you might want to understand one another's financial ideas and positions. Yep. She essentially said, I have $62,000 of student loan debt and every month I have to pay whatever it was. I attempted to pay double, which I thought was like, I was crushing it. I was like, I am paying double.

I could be paying the minimum. You know, when that interest hits, it's not really effective. So I thought I was slaying the dragon like I needed to. But he was like, I am, okay. When I was looking at what I was making. I don't make a lot. When you saw his reaction to you saying,

yeah, when you marry me, you're marrying $62,000 in student debt. Mr. Young Life guy not making a lot of money. Mr. Young Life and Mr. Dave Ramsey also. Oh boy. And I was like, it was, I was taken back. What did you see when, what was, I was taken back. When, what was, what was the face you got?

Okay. Just stunned. Stunned, stunned. The smile. Okay. There was tear. There was tear. There was tear.

There was some, eventually some tears, but I think what a beautiful thing was, he was like immediately saw it as both of our debts. So it wasn't like, you have to, he never made me feel guilty for like, I can't believe you adopted that debt or whatever. He was like, okay, we are gonna work out a plan. And I was like, I feel very loved because it is not your debt,

but you are owning it as yours now. And the fact that you want to devise a plan to get the monkey off her back, I felt very loved in the process. We'll be right back. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. We'll be right back. perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out, like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun,

even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends, like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlemagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on,

this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious, one in ten kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know-it-all sports dad, or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you.

No seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit talkaboutvaping.org brought to you by the American Lung Association and the Ad Council. Let's go back to something you just said that I found was Mr. Dave Ramsey. How come you're Mr. Dave Ramsey? In college, I don't know why my dad did this, but my freshman year of college, he basically dropped me off at my dorm room and inside this little good luck in college packet was this book called The total money makeover.

I'm like, I don't like to read at that age. I don't want to read my even my textbooks. Why would he give me this book? And by the end of the freshman year, I read it cover to cover. I don't know if I had a lot of extra time or that was before phones or what, but I read it and that became the foundation for me. I mean, almost naively didn't think anything else about it. And so I started managing my money that way. And then we get to post grad and I'm not making a lot. I have very little apples coming in. And it really helped me like naming every dollar and living under your means and just being like, well, if you're only bringing in 1500 a month, guess you can only spend 1400 that kind of thing.

To me, the Dave Ramsey thing is just Ned and the first reader. I mean, it's duh. Don't spend what you don't have. It's grandma style. And don't allow all of what you do have get eaten up in interest. Yep, yep. And for that to be like, that was just kind of true law.

I was like, okay, that's what we'll do. And so then I think the law. I was like, okay, that's what we'll do. And so then I think the terror in me was like, I make less than 30 grand a year and you have more than double that in debt. Well, let's be, let's talk about net. It's probably four years of income of net income. And so I just, it's just basic math. Like, will we do this? So if we live in a cardboard box, for four years we could pay it off if we don't eat or clothe ourselves. So if you're going to be naked, you might as well hang around with your financial advisor. Because that's the one place you could be naked, right?

So there was a point where I was like, maybe I should change jobs. Yes, for sure. He was like, how do we do this? But honestly that didn't... What did that make you feel? That maybe he was gonna change a job to handle this stuff? He was like, I think I should start delivering pizzas at night if I don't. And I was like, okay. It made me feel guilty because I felt like his job was his calling. I felt like God specifically, and then if you see this guy in what he does in ministry, you're like, he's made for this. He was put on this earth designed like he, the way that

he leads young men is remarkable. And so I'm like, oh cool. I love this man and I'm going to take him away from his passion and his calling. And so it was very overwhelming. Death that I incurred, which in my family, a lot of what people think coming out of college with debt is very normal. And so I was told like, oh, it's really normal. And I think that for us, we were like, but God says,'t be sleep to lender. Yeah. Well, let's make sure we all understand that what societal preconceived notion about normal is, is not often

right. Totally. Or helpful. Yeah. Or smart. Yeah. I mean, when I coached at Manassas, um, When I coached at Manassas, we were on the heels of the whole no child left behind thing, which I think there's a lot of stuff in the world that is very well intentioned, but the law of unintended consequences, as you look back at some of those well-intentioned policies You think oh my goodness. That was terrible and stupid and horrible policy and the no child left behind I get the idea But the narrative that came out of that is you have to go to college to be successful No child left behind every child is going to graduate and every child has to go to college be successful

Well, that is a lie Every child is going to graduate and every child has to go to college to be successful. Well that is a lie. When you're really not equipped to college and you could leave and go to a trade school for six months or go to a truck driving school for six weeks and at 19 years old be making $75,000 to $100,000 a year with no doubt. The no child left behind idea is a good idea, but the narrative that comes out of this, you have to go to college, and if you can't afford it, just get student loans because they're free

until you get out of college and rack up all this debt, and you end up sometimes five and 10 years financially, fiscally, behind where you would have been had you pursued another track. Now I'm not certainly not saying actually you should have been had you pursued another track. Now I'm not certainly not saying actually you should have been a truck driver. But as it pertains to what you just said, what's normal, well, maybe it is, but it's not always the smartest thing.

And there are other ways to go about stuff. And I just think it's interesting that your dad put a book in your freshman college thing that is Dave Ramsey that to me is Ned the first reader and then you fall in love and you meet the antithesis of that lesson and the love of your life. I think that's interesting. Interesting, yeah. So you married her anyway.

Yeah. Yeah. Nice dowry. I was worth it. Good job. I was worth it. Yeah. And y'all's goal was kill debt because of Dave Ramsall.

As fast as possible. Yeah. Dave was in our head. And we wanted to start a new kind of, plant the flag in the ground of going we want to handle money in a God-centered, we trust God's word way when we start a family. So we were like before we have kids, we want the monkey off our back to kind of show a we are we are doing life differently, hopefully. It was also a what if moment. Like, well, what if we led a family and we didn't do debt? Like, what would that even look like? It was still the age of credit cards.

But like, what if we didn't have debt? And what if when our kids went to college, we told them, you know, you only have x amount and leading them toward not incurring exactly what you just said. And that helped drive us to go, okay, well, before we even bring a human into this world, let's take care of our business first. And so that's kind of what started the journey, the aggressive journey of trying to live off

my salary and anything she made, we wouldn't touch it. It was just like, I would have scratched her back for $5 and it just would have went straight to OU, straight to Norman. That sounds like a lot of beans and ramen noodles. Yep. It was, I mean- I can't remember what our grocery- I think we had 200 bucks a month. For food?

Mm-hmm. Yep. We ate a lot of tilapia. Did you go out to eat ever? We didn't, no. You can't. We had $50 to eat out to eat, or maybe like 40. I think it was 40.

And so we were like, maybe once a month, we'll go out to eat. But for 40 bucks, you're still going out to eat it like... Cheaper. Yeah. But we were like, no, for now, not forever. So we'll sacrifice for the time being, but it doesn't have to be the way we live the rest of our life. That's a real commitment at 23 or 24 years old. Was that a shock to your world? For sure.

I had never really grew up in Dallas, grew up kind of having whatever I wanted or needed, not like in the crazy abundance, but just a normal life where everything was kind of like provided for me. Didn't really have a lot of financial background in how I would manage money. But I think that learning from him, I was like, wow, you can actually have more freedom managing the money than not managing the money. And so once we started naming our dollars and say, you know, this was a little bit more post debt, but the more you name it, the more freedom it actually creates rather than you just spend, spend, spend.

You're like, oh man, where's all of our money going? I'm like, oh, we know where our money's going. So, and we can name the dollar so we can build in freedoms in what we want. I want you to, quick segue, thanks for being so candid and open about it because personal finances and money is stuff that a lot of people don't want to talk about because it can be embarrassing. You guys talk about it with grins on your faces, and it's just absolutely cute, really.

So I own a business. I started it in 2001 with $17,000, and it was Lisa and me with a two-year-old, a three-year-old, a four-year-old, and a five-year-old. All right. There's no such thing as not taking on debt to start a business. I've been in business since 2001.

I'm 56 years old. I have enjoyed and been blessed by a certain level of success in business. But you never really get out of lines of credit or debt. There's always in business the burden of the bank. Even FedEx has debt, even Amazon has debt. There's just about no such thing as a growing company that doesn't incur debt. CapEx stuff, investment, debt, debt, debt, debt, debt, debt. Even at 56, there are times that I still really feel the weight of debt. But in the same respect, I've got 140 employees and I've got a business that's doing...

I do business in over 40 countries in the world and my children, my wife and I and many of the people that work for me are enjoying a life that maybe they would not have otherwise enjoyed if it weren't for the creation of this company. So there's a balance, right? On a business side of things. business side of things. But I really do struggle with how much of that debt and how much of the burden of that debt is fruitful versus how much of that is responsible. It's really the truth. What would you guys say since you're a young life guy, and I know you've moved on, but you're still in the ministry, what would you say that your faith says about debt, given that the debt we're talking about as a student loan debt that you guys dealt with as a young married couple versus the debt I just described. There's

a wide range of that word debt. Yeah, I do think there is a difference between using money to make money versus using money to live outside your means. And so leverage- That's really a great answer, dude. No, it really is. I was wondering what you were going to say and I'm not sure I even had an answer in my mind I expected. But there's one way of using debt

to make money and build things versus using debt to live outside your means. Yeah. One feels like a wise use of borrowed funds and one feels like a foolish, uncontrolled, undisciplined use of funds that will come after you and haunt you. Do you think that's sinful? I don't think so. I don't think that. I think the use of, I think we, money, in my opinion, is amoral anyways. So it's not that money is sinful. It's what we maybe do with it, our intentions of it, or where our heart wants to, there's deeper issues in side me than, you know,

the money that I'm holding in my hands, whether it's from the bank or from myself. I had a guest recently and I can't even remember who Alex sitting over there will probably scream out their name in a minute because he's like encyclopedia Brown of guests. But this guest is our podcast. We should know who's on. Probably. He was quick to point out on three different occasions, a piece of scripture that I'm the worst at quoting scripture, by

the way. So I'm going to butcher this, but you guys can clean it up for me That money is not the root of evil. It's the love of money. That's the root of evil set paraphrase correctly. Yes I Think that maybe can get that distinct Todd Comer Nikki the director of the movie Bonhoeffer, said that. I knew that. He's like, what's he on about? I told you to scream it out like it's like

a good ear brow. You called it. But the point of it all is, I think debt can be looked at kind of the same way. Debt for, debt so that you can have bigger, nicer things and impress your friends is probably sinful. Debt, to try to grow and make more money maybe is a distinction that's different. Yeah, I would think so. Yeah.

So in Ashley's case, it was to get an education so that she could make a living, not so that she could buy a fancy nice car. Yeah, it actually would have been different. I think we would have had a lot of different experiences. In Ashley's case, it was to get an education so that she could make a living, not so that she could buy a fancy nice car. Yeah, it actually would have been different. I think we would have had a longer, bigger conversation if she said, let's say the number was less, and this is common, I have $15,000, $16,000 of credit card debt.

We're going to pay that off, whatever, but why? Or what's driving that? Because my shoes are nice. My shoes rock, you know? I need nice shoes. Oh, that's fair. Let's pay it off. So I think for her, it was fairly innocent of like, I went to school and like, I got a communications degree and to your credit, they don't really pay that good. And so how do we do it? So we just kind of devise a simple plan. This is how we're going to get rid of it. And actually, until this conversation,

I had not even added up what I owed. I just was blindly paying double. Until the conversation, the premarital conversation of, let's talk about finances. You hadn't even thought about it, really. I hadn't even added it all up. I had and so anyways, I had like this panic moment. I found out like the sum of the number and I was like, that is so much money.

I don't even make that now in a year. And so, you know, and then what I'm the 10 year plan of paying it off. I'm like, that's a long time to pay off all this. I don't really want that for myself or for us. Isn't that interesting? Because that's the slippery slope of all of it. Is that it just becomes part of life. And if you make enough money every week or every month

to make the payments and you got a little leftover, it's okay. But I knew when I was marrying, so I knew there wouldn't be enough for payments or leftover. Leftover. Right. And I moved without a job and so I was like, ah! There was a point in, I was living with this family,

I was paying double on my payments, I had to, because I couldn't like defer them, you know, once the payment started, that I had to because I couldn't defer them once the payments started, that I had run out of the funds that I had moving to Austin. I was like, what do I do? I started riding my bike places, then my bike tire popped. I was like, okay, I won't pay for gas, whatever. My sweet, sweet husband, boyfriend at the time, didn't speak up.

And at some point I had to come to him and I'd say, hey, I literally don't have any money. And he was like, I've actually patiently been waiting for you to ask. Because I know. But you need to ask when you need help. And I was like, goll. So he was like, patiently waiting, knew that there was a need, but he was like, I want you to like, ask. Why?

Why did you want her to ask? I don't know. I was thinking about that just now. Why'd I ask that? I actually think I remember thinking all these puzzle pieces, you know, you're kind of sniffing out, you're about to marry somebody, like, are they, you know, who they say they are? She had $62,000 worth of debt. She was kind of unsure about that initially, didn't even know.

Then all these things are happening. There's no money in the bank. I'm like, is there, you almost kind of like, is there something I'm not seeing? Am I blinded by the beauty? And like, she's actually just terrible with money. Is she just terrible with money. Is she just terrible with money? And the more and more I just was learning and smelling, it was like, no, she just, I mean,

those unfortunate circumstances were just life, and life just happens. And that doesn't mean you're bad with money if it just keeps happening. So I think when she asked, it felt like that, she was just humble and honest enough to go, this is where I'm at. And I valued that. Yeah, I think at the time also you were like,

I want you to communicate your needs to the father also. Like I went not saying not he was putting himself as the father, but he's like, you need to be honest, and if you need help, go to the father. And so, not saying, and I wanted to play the role of the father, but. No, it doesn't sound condescending. Yeah, yeah, but just ask for help when you need help.

And you need a, of the father, of people, whatever. And so I was like, okay. Wow. Yeah. And that concludes part one of my conversation with Brandon and Ashley Stathis. And you do not want to miss part two that's now available to listen to as you're about to hear some extraordinary stories

of amazing generosity. Together guys, we can change the country, but it starts with you. I'll see you in part two. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well the election is in the home stretch, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Jen Psaki, Estet Herndon.

But we're also gonna have some fun thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee and Charlemagne the God. We're gonna take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Arnold Schwarzenegger is many things, but did you know that he was once the director? And that the only film he has ever directed is a 1992 made-for-TV remake of Christmas in Connecticut. Nobody calls it the biggest star in the world and says, hey, they want to direct your TV movie. On our Revisionist History Christmas special this year, we are telling the really very funny story behind the making of the most improbable Christmas movie of all time. The first thing out of his mouth is, so what have you guys been doing since Commando? Clearly not going to the gym.

You can hear it all right now on the Revisions History Podcast. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.