An Army of Normal Folks - Buddy Osborn: Hope In the Largest Open Air Drug Market (Pt 2)
Episode Date: December 24, 2024Buddy was a Golden Gloves boxer who bit his opponent's ear, a union organizer who landed in prison, and ultimately the founder of The Rock Ministries. In the Philadelphia neighborhood of Kensington, T...he Rock started by serving inner-city boys with boxing and the Gospel, and it’s grown to serving over 11,000 kids through sports, arts, music, and mentoring. And all of this is taking place amidst some of the most dangerous blocks in America. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an Army of Normal Folks, and we continue now
with part two of our chat with Buddy Osborne right after these brief messages from our
generous sponsors.
Hey, everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted.
But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question.
This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs,
friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki,
Astead Herndon. But we're also gonna have some fun, even though these days fun and
politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my
friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlamagne the God.
We're gonna take some viewer questions as well.
I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about?
Power to the podcast for the people.
So whether you're obsessed with the news
or just trying to figure out what's going on,
this season of Next Question is for you.
Check out our new season of Next Question with me,
Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio
app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
To answer your question, what was an organizer?
So I would run into you and I would say, I would be very complimentary to you and I would mean it.
And I'd say, listen, you know, with the Rufers Union, you know, we have a collective bargaining agreement.
I would be honored if you would sign this agreement.
We would take care of your men, you know, they would have a pension, hospitalization, dental care.
They would have everything you could imagine.
We'd help you with your jobs, protect your equipment, yada, yada, yada. And you could say, and this is our territory, you know, when you work in this area,
it's a profiling wage that you have to pay because of what we've established in the...
So, there's a whole spiel of things that you would talk to the guy. And I believed it, believe it or
not. I signed up 58 contractors in 18 months.
Hold it.
What if I say no?
Okay, beautiful.
So you would say no.
Am I gonna get knee capped?
Yes.
Yes.
So an organizer is a really good, strong salesman
who won't take no for an answer.
Yes.
Right.
Wow.
Yeah. You would know.
All right. So if I'm a dude with a truck and I'm out roofing on my own,
if I'm from this area, I got to know I'm going to meet one of you guys eventually.
Y'all are going to show up.
Oh, yeah.
And I got to know I'm going gonna say yes and pay my union dues?
Well you have-
Or I'm about, or I'm gonna have lots of trouble.
Yes, yes.
That's the way it works.
Yes.
Do you?
Yes, your building would be-
Do you think that's right?
Do I think that's right?
Uh-huh.
Absolutely not, Now look, there's reasons that, I mean, there's things-
I'm not saying disunionization.
We're not getting into that political argument.
No, it's wrong.
It was so wrong that I was indicted on federal racketeering charges.
We're going to get to that in a minute. Okay, all right. So yeah, no, it's so wrong that I was indicted on federal racketeering charges. We're gonna get to that in a minute.
Okay, okay, okay, all right.
So yeah, no, it's definitely wrong.
I mean, you don't have to, like, I'll give you an example.
It's what you do.
I'll give you an example.
I'll give you an example.
So I go up to the job, I'm a new kid.
I'm excited.
You gotta understand, like, I'm excited about the roof.
I just love what I do and taking care of the men. So I go up to this guy,
his name was, what's the name of the roof? It was a company. I go up and so I say,
hey man, how you doing? I said, I just want to, and I'm paraphrasing, but I know this is how I
would think. Man, I want to sign you up. I want your man and all, but we have so much. And he's like-
Pension and everything.
Yeah, everything, pension, annuity, hospital, you name it.
And then, and he's looking at me, right?
And he's asking me questions.
Well, long story short, he's really like nutting me now.
Like he's making fun of me.
Like he's really sucking me in.
Right.
Like I'm thinking I'm doing this great job,
he's listening, I'm gonna sign this guy,
this guy's ready, but now he's getting a little bit weird,
now he's getting a little bit funny,
like he's making a joke of me now.
So he has a smile, and I asked him,
I said, do you have dental insurance?
And he says, yes, I do, I said,
because you're gonna need it in a minute.
I mean, look, I can laugh about that now.
So I'll give you, look.
So let me ask you, so back in the day,
were organizers-
I'm not glorifying this.
I know, but back in the day,
were organizers tough guys?
Yeah.
They needed to be tough guys. I think so, yeah. Sales guys charismatic, were organizers tough guys? Yeah. They needed to be tough guys.
I think so, yeah.
Sales guys charismatic, but also tough,
so they needed to be charismatic.
No, well, listen, the Rufers Union was the police force
for all the building trades back in the day.
Really?
Yes, we were the police force, no doubt.
I mean, we were all fighters.
I was retired.
We had five or six guys on staff
that were actual professional fighters.
Holy smokes.
So yeah, yeah, and it drew a lot of attention
from the feds, by the way, and we can get into that.
Sounds like it.
We're gonna get there.
All right, so you're doing the organizing.
Yeah, but I love what I did, you know?
And I love- And at that time,
you really believed that you were doing good work.
You know, listen, I'll give you an example.
You know, this guy, right, he breaks a woman's jaw.
He sucks her. He breaks a woman's jaw?
Yeah, he punches a woman and breaks her jaw.
Okay.
The guy who is a father, the father of her,
is a serious guy, he's a killer.
You know, he's a guy who just-
Why would you break that woman's jaw?
What an idiot.
Yeah. So I was asked to handle this guy.
So I bring the guy in six o'clock in the morning.
The bad guy or the guy that broke the jaw?
The guy that broke the jaw. So he came in.
So he's sitting just as far as it for me.
So I got another guy here, I'm here and I'm saying, I'm talking to him.
So I know in my mind he's going to get handled.
He's going to get handled. So I said, I'm talking to him. So I just had this thing,
stand up, right? Stand up. So I said, what did you, you know, so I had asked him, why would you do
that? And he gave me this long story as I recall. I said, stand up, go over here. He has a loaded
gun in his pocket. So I take the gun, the door opens and he just gets just so lacking.
I mean, he gets beat up bad. So I'm like, oh, yes, what are you doing? So everything gets cut.
And then next thing you know, afterwards I'm putting ice pack on his eye and stop his lip
bleeding. His nose was like this and give him a cup of coffee. And out the door he went. We held
his gun. I told him,
I'll never bring a gun in here. So it was stuff like that constantly. Like we would,
you know, we would handle beefs on the streets for people, you know, because our guys-
The truth is though, as violent and awful as that is, you might have actually saved his life.
Because if the dad handled it, he's probably dead.
You're right. You're right.
You're right.
But that's the code of the street.
Yeah, that was the street code, yeah.
And that's the way it was.
And yeah.
That is like the movies and stuff, bro.
People don't realize that's really the way things.
Yeah.
Well, listen, it gets better. It gets better. Yeah, we were just… It was amazing.
I mean, not in a way. When I look back on it… Now, you know what's interesting? When you look back on it now, I'm grateful for where I am
and where God has led me. And I say that the Lord has led me in a place that no man can take credit
for. And that's why I'm sitting across from you, not anything I did in and of itself,
but what Christ has done in my life.
So let's get there. So you quote organizing and then you end up in jail. Tell us how that
happened.
Well, so I tried to sign this guy up and I said, I see you have dental insurance. So one day I'm riding down the street, I see his truck outside a place where you go, all
your materials.
So we go, we cut all his tires in his big truck, cut him.
Clearly, he said no to the union.
I said, I call, I say, hey, is Quirrens on the phone?
He's like, hey Quirrens, how you doing?
My name is Frank.
I said, listen, I'm with it, I work for the Firestone Tire
and I'm wondering if you wanna have some tires,
like we got a big sale on it.
What do you mean?
Well, just because it looks like you got some problems
with your tires.
He looks, I said, go out and take a look.
He goes, and he starts howling.
You know, and we were laughing.
So we went up and signed him, I went up and signed him.
It took 75 75 years.
He was non-unioned and I was able to sign them.
A couple of other things happened that I recall,
but I signed them up.
So, you know, I believed in what I was doing, you know?
I purchased a duplex. I was 25 at the time and I have my own place. I'm outside of,
I'm nice out of Kensington now, you know, dating a girl at the time, just living large.
I go to Florida for a week's vacation. I come back from Florida.
I receive a letter in the mail from the FBI, the Federal Bureau, that says that I'm a target.
I didn't know what that was.
I take it down to my boss, you know, and he said, oh, kid, I'm so sorry.
Now, remind you, he was my boxing coach.
He was my idol, you know. I said, that's nothing, Steve.
So that's that, right? And we had Steve at the time was in his office
and he was talking with a couple people and he looked up and something didn't seem right.
So he called us all in and then we went into a conference room
and the feds labeled it the rubber room because that's where a lot of people would get beat up
pretty good. So yeah, so what we did it was say things like yes, so we found the electronic
surveillance. So the FBI was two blocks away and they were recording everything, including
all the things that I was involved with, you know. And so we didn't know that, but we found
the bugs. We took the bugs out. They were listening to us as this was all...
Taking the bugs out.
Oh yeah, as all this was happening. So we get the bugs, we take it and a guy, Steve tells him, take it out. So he drives away
over to Jersey and here they had a GPS on it and the Feds were filing, coming from all angles,
and they want to pull them over and grabbing them. So now we didn't know the extent of the indictment
So, now we didn't know the extent of the indictment or what the charges would be or what evidence they had.
But you knew the hammer was coming down.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I'm a young kid, you know, at the time.
I'm on the street, you know, 18 months at the time, and sure enough, we got indicted.
And 18 people were indicted, a couple judges, the Philadelphia judges, some lawyers, a couple mob
guys, and then 13 union officials. I was one of them. So when it came time for the indictment,
it was a Friday, I was in a wedding on Saturday, and I go to the federal courthouse and to post bail.
We're all there, massive media, massive.
So I go and so we're all in this cell,
like maybe a little bigger than this, about all of us.
And they would take two at a time.
So I'm back, I'm like, man, I'm like the last,
me and Steve, we're like the last.
He's my boss, he's my mentor, he's everything to me. I'm like the last, me and Steve were like, we're like the last. He's my boss, he's my mentor,
he's everything to me, you know? So they, I go out with him, guess what they do? They revoke my bail
because I was a threat to the community, a menace to society. They wouldn't give me bail because they
kidding. No, and they wouldn't give Steve bail. So they kept three of us pre-trial detention because
of that. I couldn't believe it.
Here I am walking, I'm in the Marshall's van, the news media, it was like something out
of a movie and I'm shackled to Steve and he looks at me and it's the first time he said
this.
He says, but kid, he called me kid, he said, you were to pick to run this union one day.
I remember thinking, wow, that's amazing.
This guy would say that to me.
You know, my, you know, and here I am and I go to prison.
We'll be right back.
Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric.
Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted.
But turns out the end is near,
right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question.
This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight.
I'm bringing in some FOKs,
friends of Katie's to help me out like Ezra Klein,
Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Estet Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these
days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends
like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean,
isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're
obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question
is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
So we get put in this small cell. It was dark, smelly. A guy drops dead right in front of us.
They pull him out and they didn't know that we...
Once they found out it was Steve Tracz, they took us out of the cell and they really hooked
us up good. So now I got a cell. That was a Friday. Come Saturday, 11 o'clock at night,
the guard opens the door and he gives me cake, wedding cake, because I was supposed to be
in a wedding.
No kidding. They got the cake in for me, man.
So ultimately, Bill, I got out with the stipulation that I remain under house arrest, which I
did for 20 months.
How many years did you serve?
I was sentenced to eight years.
I did five years.
I did five in the feds.
That's a hard time.
You know what?
I wouldn't trade one second of it because of where I am now.
I wouldn't trade one second of it. Not one. But yes, it wasn't easy, man. It wasn't easy,
but thinking back, you know, I wrote, I got almost 300,000 words written every day of my life I wrote in prison.
I sent it home and I just finished my fourth edit for a memoir.
I'm giving it to my daughter.
She read the first year in 87.
She was like, Dad, this is amazing.
Well, tell me about the transformation because that's when the redemption of your life
and all that you do now really began, yeah?
Yeah, well, you know, I was in the Creed movie.
I was the cut man in the Creed movie.
I don't know whether you knew that or not.
I did know that.
You did?
I did.
Oh, so I say this for this reason.
So I'm in the ring with Stallone. I was on set for like three and a half weeks,
four weeks for just a small little part. Thank the Lord for that because I put my daughter
through college.
That's awesome.
So I still get residuals seven years later.
That's awesome.
Not a lot, but it's awesome. So I said, I gotta share this with you. It was 38 days, 38 years almost to the day
that he did Rocky in Kensington.
I was in that movie.
Were you really?
I was a 17 year old kid with a black eye, right?
So I said, so I jump over the,
guys knocked on my door and said,
they're making a movie about this.
I said, who's this rookie duke fighter?
I'm the fighter of Kentucky, channel 12, little doc.
So I jump over the rope, they had all roped off
and I start shadow boxing.
Give me a, you know, and everyone was laughing.
Everybody knew me, you know, I was a kid.
And Burgess, come here, kid.
I didn't even know who he was.
Come here, kid.
He says like
so it's me, I said let my friend Timmy, so he gets in the show and we're walking down, Stallone walks up, we rehearse it, no talking, just so when it came time for us to watch the movie and
I told Slides, just like this, they cut us out, he was so, oh I'm so sorry. You know, yeah. It was funny, but it was the truth.
Yeah, I love to get that.
I would love, one day I'd like to get that.
Those people don't understand that Sylvester Stallone
start to stardom was just basically him being him
in Rocky, because he was just a meatheaded kind of guy
from that area in real life.
He was, yeah, he was.
Yeah, yeah, so it was good. So out of that,
we get an email from this guy named Irwin Winkler. He was the producer of all the Rocky movies.
I think he did Rage and Bull. He did so many different movies and he wanted to do my life story. I said,
what? This is five years ago. I said, do my life story. Are you kidding? I said to my wife,
we're going to have to move now. I'm going to get famous. I don't really want to do this.
So now I had to get a lawyer and they had 13 pages of stuff. They got down to three things.
So my lawyer was up against another lawyer, apparently like a powerful Hollywood lawyer.
And so the only thing I wanted was my faith to be, you can embellish it any way you want,
but I want my faith to be at the forefront.
Yes, the transformation, the redemption,
like you said, that's what I wanted.
I had a conversation with him on my phone.
My wife was here, my daughter's here, here I am.
And then my lawyer said, why don't you talk to him?
So I said, hey man, we're gonna make you a superstar.
Feel you like a rocky thing.
I said, Mr. Winkler, I appreciate it.
They were gonna give me a lot of money up front. I didn't want to take not one cent. I said, everything goes
to the rock. I said, I appreciate this, man, but my faith needs to be first and foremost.
It's Christ in me. And that's the bottom line. And he said, wow, man, it takes a lot
of money to do this, but I don't know. So they didn't accept it. And I said, wow, man, it takes a lot of money to do this, but I don't know. So they
didn't accept it. And I said, okay. When I hung the phone up, I hugged my wife and my daughter.
And so we had a building next to the rock that we wanted to buy. And I was going to use the money.
I think they were going to give us a substantial, a good bit, I was going to use the money, I think they were going to give us a substantial,
a good bit, I was going to use that to buy that because I don't own anything down there,
you know?
And I said, okay, well two weeks later we got an anonymous check in the mail and we
purchased that building and it had nothing to do with the movie, you know what I'm saying?
So God was saying, listen, I got this.
We got to get to that.
Okay.
You're in prison. We gotta get to that. Okay. You're in prison.
Let's get to how...
Because prior to this, Christ really isn't a central part of your life.
No.
Well, I went to church, but I didn't understand what...
Yeah, no.
Take us there.
Okay. So, ultimately, I was sentenced and then I went to prison, and checked into prison, and
it was surreal too, you know.
But as I'm there, I'll give you the short…as I was there, I received a letter from a lady, and she said to me, she said to me,
buddy, she said, Jesus holds you in the palm of His hand.
And I'm like, man, that's interesting. Because I was a practicing Catholic at the time, and you know, and I'm like, man, that's interesting.
Because I was a practicing Catholic at the time, and I'm going to church.
In fact, I was an acquirer, I was a lector, I read the reading, I did everything I could.
And then I would read the Bible, and she would always write me.
Her name was Lucille, and she was a neighbor of a girl that I was dating at
the time, and she had left me, you know, when I was in prison.
And it was a very, very difficult time for me.
But I knew that my transformation was taking place.
Something was happening.
I remember walking on the track with this guy, looked like Paul Newman, pierced blue eyes, white hair, just thin, never wore a shirt. We're in
Louisiana and we're walking and I cursed like that's every other word out of my mouth. And he said
to me one day, because the reason why I know this is because I wrote about it,
and I just saw about 7… He said, how dare you use that language in my presence,
you lewd, lascivious, lascivious lout. He said that to me.
Wow.
I'm like, what? Wow. So it was little things like that. So I said, that's it, I'm giving up my
cursing. I just wrote it, I said, nope.
And I stuck to that, it's been so many years, you know.
So what happened was I did my time, I get out, and it wasn't really until December
31st, 1995, at 830 at night, that I gave my life to Christ on the phone. I just had, I didn't hear his voice,
I didn't hear him, you know, I didn't see a vision. I just knew that there was something
that was lacking, that void that I had from a kid. And all the things that I've been through
at this point now, I'm 36 years old, about to be 37, and I'm empty. I'm just on empty.
And six months later I'm in Siberia in the prison gulangs for kids, you know, in prison,
because I started going to this church, a Bible teaching church, and I ended up in Siberia.
I went on a missions team for a month.
And when I came back, I started to go teach a Bible study
at the House of Corrections.
In the meantime, Mike Tyson had got out of prison
and he was training at my friend's gym in Philly.
And so what happened was,
I was training this kid there
and he made it to the finals of the nationals of the junior
Olympics and what happened was he got robbed, a controversial decision.
I didn't see him for two weeks.
Now I never shared my faith with anybody at the gym.
You're coaching kids in boxing.
I'm coaching kids now at this point.
But your faith you're not sharing.
I'm not sharing it.
No.
You got this kid that's's good. He goes down
He loses a decision and he doesn't know anything about you, but your buddy the badass boxer guy who's done time
You've got the credibility from
Yes, you're you're you're boxing pedigree. You got the credibility from the street cred. You're a boxer guy
Yes, and you're you're now training kids, right? I'm training kids.
But you hadn't once shared the transformation that took place in your life.
This guy goes down and loses his fight and you don't see him for two weeks.
Right.
I'm on the prison block.
Are you wondering if he's dead?
I didn't know where he was at.
Yeah.
After the break, we'll hear what happened to this young man.
We'll be right back.
Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric.
Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted.
But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question.
This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight.
I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones,
Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon.
But we're also going to have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like
an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha B.,
Roy Wood Jr., and Charlemagne the God.
We're going to take some viewer questions as well.
I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about?
Power to the podcast for the people.
So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on,
this season of Next Question is for you.
Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio
app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm teaching the Bible study on a Saturday and there was like 28 kids there and he and he walks in with an orange jumpsuit
I looked at him. You mean you're teaching the Bible study in prison in prison on a block. Yeah, right. Yeah, and I said
He killed somebody he killed a kid in a gang fight and I was devastated. I cried man
I cried and I hugged the kid and I said, sit down, I want to teach you about Jesus.
That's my exact words.
So he ultimately actually caught a break because it was a gang fight and kids, he was a juvenile,
so he's out to this day.
But I stopped training kids at that time.
I lost my desire.
For some reason I said, this doesn't make sense to me.
You know what I mean?
You know, I was trained, I was taught to train
to make champions of the world,
but I wasn't feeling that, man,
because I just wasn't feeling that.
So I stopped.
But I got married to a girl named Lucille, actually.
Crazy.
I know, that's interesting, isn't it?
Lucille. Right. Crazy. I know, that's interesting, isn't it?
Lucille.
So, I fast track it, my faith is increasing, and now I'm on that prison block every week,
and I'm seeing these kids in there with no fathers.
It's breaking my heart.
No fathers, none of them had a father.
And I'm thinking to myself, how could I be more effective on the street block rather
than the prison block?
I know what the recidivism rate is, it's 80%.
How do you change that?
How do you change the recidivism rate?
Is it education?
How can you be more effective on the street block rather than the prison block?
There's a guy I interviewed not long ago who said, we can work ourselves silly doing the good work of pulling babies out
of the river, but eventually we need to go upstream and find out why they're in the river
in the first place.
Wow.
Wow.
Wow.
Same thing you're saying.
Yeah, it's the same thing.
Yeah, same concept.
How do I reach them on the block, the streets?
How do I reach them on the street block rather than get them in the prison block?
So when I think about my life and what I've seen,
where I've been, that's seminary to me.
I want the seminary.
From the prison, from the hardest, I wasn't in no camp.
I was behind, I was in FCI, I was behind a wall,
you know what I mean?
And not bragging, that's just the way it was.
But all that to say this, that God prepared me
for this venture that he would put me in 20 years ago.
That is so clear that growing up in bunk beds
with nine kids, having to fight and scrap,
having to spend two years in a hospital room, wondering if you were going to have
a leg to the boxing, to the organizing, to the quote, organizing.
Strong arming is another way to say it, I think.
To the prison time, to Lucille writing you was as violent and dysfunctional and crazy as all of that
was, that was God preparing you for today. Yeah, I don't think I could have said it
any better than that. I mean that's right on point. So I get the rock is all about
build your house on the rock,
not sand, because the rock's gonna stand.
Tell me how, we're gonna get to what the rock is
and what it's done, but tell me how it started
and how it came to you and what it looked like
in the early days.
Well, so I would go in, I wound up going to this church in Philly called Calvary
Chapel, Philadelphia.
It was the biggest non-denominational church in the city.
The pastor's name is Joe Fosch, who is my pastor today.
He just teaches the word.
That's all he does, you know.
I would go in there and it was so different than, because I used to go to Catholic, I was raised Catholic, go to church and I was like,
okay, I mean, it's different though, you know, I go in, hear the word, I like the music.
But I would go in and I was angry. I would be angry at times. And I never knew why.
I never knew why I was angry. And I would say to my wife, what's wrong with me? Why am I feeling this way?
So come to find out I realized what it was. I was angry is because I was comfortable.
I was becoming comfortable. I was getting comfortable with my life. And I was getting comfortable with my life and I was married right at this point.
I had a child at 40 years old, my first child.
I had opened a business.
Bill, I wanted to be a business owner so bad when I was in prison.
What I opened?
Yeah, don't tell me roofing.
Well listen, so hear me out though.
I was, I was, I wanted, look, remember I got
an eighth grade education.
When I was in prison, I got, I walked down the aisle, man.
I got the cap and gown, they switched it over.
Good for you, man.
I graduated.
That's awesome.
Went to Louisiana State, Louisiana State, took courses.
I was registered for Penn State.
I got 21 diplomas, man.
I did everything you could imagine to better myself.
And I hooked up with some bright, brilliant men
that were articulate and I learned from all of them.
Now, I wasn't, you know, all of them.
I learned everything I could them. Now, I wasn't, you know, all of them. I learned everything I
could, man, from everybody. But I wanted to become, I wanted to be a contractor, a roofing
contractor, you know, because I wanted to be successful. I knew, and as I look at the writings,
I knew that I wanted to be successful, but I was barred for life. So I was barred for life in the construction industry.
So I get out and sure enough, I wound up working at an auto body shop and as a manager learning
because I was always good with men but I start to learn, learn, then I wound up managing
a Mako and then I wound up managing a Mako.
And then I became an insurance appraiser.
Right?
I worked for all the, like I was a subcontractor,
you know, 1099 employee.
I had my own name.
It was, I loved it.
I do like 10, 15 cars a day.
I made so much, you know, it was great. Then they found out my conviction. They wanted to take my license off me. I'm like 10, 15 cars a day. I made so much, you know, it was great.
Then they found out my conviction.
They wanted to take my license off me.
I'm like, you gotta be kidding me.
I was so, so you know what I said?
I said, listen, I fought it and I won it.
And I got my license.
I still have it to this day.
I opened up my own collision shop.
Wow, that's cool.
And so for the first, but unbeknownst to me,
God allowed that to happen because at 40,
I opened my business. At 45, the rock started. And that was seed money to purchase our first
building. Now, I don't own anything now. At first, I put my house up, but now it's not my name. I don't own anything. Something happens to me, or it goes, you know.
But I was uncomfortable because God,
it was like the Lord was saying,
you need to get, I got something else for you.
So I started to rock.
Explain the start.
Explain what that is.
What's in your head.
So here's what I did.
I met with Joe Hinn, right?
And I say his name because he, like they do all the UFC boxing all over the country right
now.
He's a dear friend of mine, you know, and he just recently passed and Junior is running
it.
They have an amazing operation.
So I said, Joe, he said, listen, because I left training at his gym before.
I says, I want to start this ministry,
and I know you got a second floor. He gave me the keys, and that's where I started. So I went back
to the same gym that I started to train. You are kidding me.
No, I went right back to there, right? But I gave the gospel. So I would bring the kids in,
and they can train. But on Thursday, we all get together, and I give a 20-minute message that there's hope
in the Lord and this is the reason why.
And that was, you know, that started.
That's the rock.
That's where it started.
That's where it started there.
So then nine months later, we go into this building, right?
No windows.
It was a sporting goods store for many years in Philly. So we
go in, no windows, no nothing. Prostitutes in there, I mean, crazy, crazy. And people
thought I was nuts, put the house up, you know. I just knew that something good can
come out of this. I didn't know what.
Buddy, I think we can establish by now you've been nuts for a long time. Yeah. Anyway, so we get in there and so the first guy I see said, hmm, okay, all right. You see, nine years before that,
he testified against me. No way. And the FBI agent leans back and he turns up this tape of him getting brutalized because he
was doing something in Kensington on a Saturday. I'm an organizer and I see him. I say, what are
you doing? I'm playing baseball. I said, can I get on your team? And he come down. So I talked
to my boss. He said, handle it. Well, he came in, in the rubber room,
but this time the FBI was listening.
And so he came in and he got a shellac in,
you know what I mean, he got handled, you know.
And I said to my co-defendant, as he was saying,
yeah, that's him, Buddy Osborne,
I says, if I ever see him again,
I'm gonna take his tongue out of his mouth
and I'm gonna kill him with his tongue.
I'll strangle him with his tongue. That's how angry I was. And sure enough, I
saw him, I hugged him. I said, I love you, man. And he was my neighbor. To this day,
we personally-
When you walked up to him, did he know you?
Oh, yeah. He knew I was.
He had to have been wondering about what was about to happen with me.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. no, he was definitely shaken by it.
But I grabbed him, man, I said, I'm a new creation.
I'm a new man.
I thought my old ways have passed away,
behold, the Bible says everything becomes new.
So he was like, wow.
But his building that we have as our sanctuary on a Sunday
where there's two, 300 people who come on a Sunday.
That was his building that we purchased.
You're kidding.
Yes, yes.
The guy that testified against you.
Yes.
That you were going to choke him out with his own tongue.
I would have done that too. Back then, not now, of course. Yeah, so that's kind of interesting.
So we...
That's not kind of interesting, buddy. That's crazy.
I know. So we take this building over and we had little or nothing and people thought that I was,
what's going on? What's up with this kid? What's going on? You know, what's up with this kid? You know, what's going on?
Because I moved out to Philadelphia.
I got a, I went up buying a house, beautiful home, a single home, you know, a place called
Yardley.
It's a beautiful place, suburbs.
I knew Yardley.
You knew Yardley?
How do you...
Yeah, my kid lived in Philly for about two years, one of my four kids.
No way.
Yeah.
No way. Yeah, we went all over Philly looking around and stuff.
I've been through yard line.
Oh wow, that is amazing.
That is so funny, man.
Another person we highlighted once called that-
That's great.
A lady named Ann Malam who started a thing
called Back on My Feet, she started that in Philly too.
Really?
It's a running club for the homeless. I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but it's amazing.
Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway.
Wow. So you buy a house in New York.
And then I have my business. Brother, I became the worst business owner.
I was doing great for a minute there. I'm like, what is happening?
minute there, I'm like, what is happening? So I remember calling my wife and telling her, I said, she'll, we got to sell our house. So I sold the business, I sold my house. I wanted to
move right into Kensington, but I had to settle for four miles away. I wanted to be in walking
distance, you know. So we grabbed a row home, you know, and my wife didn't say a word. She
came with me.
A good woman.
Yeah, amazing. And I remember the first year, brother, I was living below poverty level.
I had savings and I didn't own the bricks to the building, so I owned the business.
I sold the business to the guy and he was supposed to pay every month, you know
And this and that and that didn't work out
But I remember somebody telling me say look you do the Lord's work. I will provide you know
And I didn't understand that whole thing of trusting in that you know
And and I ultimately I trust it and God provides all the time where he guides
He provides they tell all of our missionaries that come in and we got them from all over the country,
they live there.
You know, where God, if you're called and you're called to do a work, He will provide
all of your needs.
We'll be right back.
Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. right back. Next question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight.
I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's,
to help me out, like Ezra Klein, Van Jones,
Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon.
But we're also gonna have some fun,
even though these days fun and politics
seems like an oxymoron.
But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends
like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood
Jr. and Charlemagne the God.
We're going to take some viewer questions as well.
I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about?
Power to the podcast for the people.
So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on,
this season of Next Question is for you.
Check out our new season of Next Question with me,
Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
["The Rock"]
So in the early days, what did the Rock do?
Okay, so the whole idea, in the early days, it was all just boxing.
And you were reaching out to kids and boxing and trying to share the gospel with them.
Yes.
That was the idea.
That's the whole, thousands of kids have heard the gospel.
It's not my responsibility to make somebody a Christian.
That's not who...
We're not robots.
Give them the hope in Christ that he has a purpose and a plan for their lives.
There's no throwaways.
So when I see these kids that have no father figures, that have no goals, that have nothing planned, that don't know,
they don't have nothing going for their lives.
And then it becomes life skills and teaching them,
let your yes be yes and your no be no.
So we come into a building,
it wasn't fit for a ghetto rat to live in.
And we took it one room at a time.
And when we got materials, you know, we showed the kids,
okay, this is what you have when you pray.
This is what you have.
We had kerosene heaters.
It was just, you know, one room at a time.
Boom, it was, you know, 21,
it was an 18,000 square foot building with three stories,
you know, and they would see us one room at a time.
And what year was this?
This was 04.
We purchased it December 04.
What does this building look like now?
Well, I mean, now it's old, but it's nice.
It's clean, like you can eat out the floors.
I mean, when people come in,
we've had the governors of Pennsylvania, mayors,
we just had the mayor down there.
She did her second town hall. Like we have every, you wouldn't believe the
people to come in there. I mean, you know, like, but not bragging, it's just a fact. We have
tremendous favor now, you know, because they don't, now they know I'm not nuts, you know.
Well, I'm nuts for Jesus right now. That's how I'm nuts. You know, I'm nuts, I'm nuts for Jesus right now. That's how I'm nuts. I'm nuts for Jesus.
So, tell me what... It started with just outreach and trying to minister to kids who were in boxing,
who had holes in their life. And let's be honest, kids that grow up with silver spoons in their mouth
rarely put on headgear. The kids that are in the boxing world
come from lower to middle income status, typically.
I mean, that's just the truth.
You just don't see a lot of guys in boxing that came up.
And the truth about that is,
that's where the largest group of young strapping boys
That's where the largest group of young strapping boys trying to figure it out, that have holes in their lives.
Yes.
Yes.
And so you start filling those.
Yes.
And tell me the progression.
Yeah, I mean, the first time is that, you know, I developed, we developed a team of kids, you know, and there was probably like
maybe 13, 14 solid kids, you know, and, and that's the key. You got to get a core. You got to get that
core. And so we've had several cores over the last 20 years. Many of our kids are homeowners now,
you know, many of our kids have, have trade jobs that, whether it's operating engineer, carpenter,
plumber, electrician. I mean, it is amazing, man. It's amazing.
Because where do those kids go had they not had the rock?
Well, listen, dead or prison, dead or prison. Like we're literally, we're in a war zone right now.
Tell me about that. We're in a war zone right now.
Tell me about that.
We're in a war zone right now.
You mean the Rock and the Kensington and that area?
Where our ministry is, we're in the center of a war zone,
where we're literally, the New York Times and the Post,
Post or Times did this thing where they went to see
where the most murders were in the country.
So they found this place, 63 homicides within a two block radius. It's two blocks from the rock.
63 homicides in three years. Right there. Yeah.
Is it gang? All gang really?
No, it's not gangs, but it's, well, it's drug territorial. It's not gangs. It's just stupidity.
It's arrogance.
It's ignorance.
It's territorial beefs.
It's violence.
So you're reaching kids where they're at.
Oh, yeah.
And they see this.
All right, so.
Listen, listen, listen.
They see that.
Look, let me tell you something. You know, right now we're at where it's an open air drug market.
Where I mean, we we've been designated number one in the country, like right where we're at.
People go down there and they shoot documentaries all the time. In fact, we don't do that anymore.
We don't let people come in unless they're going to talk about the solution. I'll talk about, I don't want the problem. We know what the problem is, but there's a solution. Let's
talk about that. Let's put that on your camera. Let's talk about the solution. So right now,
what's going on down there is that the addicted population down there, you can get anything you
want. You want needles? You got them. You want a crack pipe? You got them. In fact, you can get anything you want. You want needles? You got them.
You want a crack pipe?
You got them.
In fact, you want condoms?
You got it.
You want a detox?
You got it.
You want housing?
You can get anything, food, anything you want, tents.
Who's providing all this?
Everybody, there's all kind of agencies down there
that will provide this.
Are they government, NCOs?
They're all different types of people, but my point is that they have opportunity. The addictive population have opportunity. They have a voice that's louder than anyone.
The community of Kensington right now, they have a voice about that much. But you know, has no voice, the children.
They have no voice.
That's infuriating me at this point.
So what are we gonna do about it?
This is what I feel led to do.
So The Rock was started 20 years ago through boxing,
through combat sports, and we've reached thousands of them.
I've been told if you literally reached 11,000 kids.
Oh, that's an old number.
That's an old number.
And some of these kids who were street kids are now engineers and doctors.
100%. 100%.
And you're plucking them out of that area and doing it and you feel great about it.
100%. But here's my point. But not everybody wants to do combat sports.
100%. But here's my point. But not everybody wants to do combat sports. Okay? So what happened was or what is, what's happening now is that, okay, we need to expand that so we can reach
every kid. So we need another building. And so there was a building that was in the back
of us that a couple years ago I heard that they were selling.
It's the oldest boxing venue in America from 1917 to 1963.
They had shows every Friday there without stop.
And more world champions come out of that place than anywhere in the country.
It's unbelievable.
I went around to the building, went into the guy and he was like Marlon Brando on the waterfront.
He said, hey, I have a hard time. Went into the guy and he was like Marlon Brando on the waterfront.
He said, hey, I have a hard time.
I said, hey, I hear you're going to sell this thing.
He says, yeah, I'm going to sell it.
I said, what do you want? What are you asking for?
Six hundred thousand.
I said, you firm with that?
Yeah, I'm firm. I said, can I with that? Yeah, I'm firm.
I said, can I say something to you? Yeah, yeah, what's up?
I said, and I got my guy with me, he's my youth pastor.
I says, if God wants us to have this building,
you can't do nothing about it.
I grabbed his hand, I shook his hand, you take care.
We're gonna pray."
And he laughed, right? Well, two months later, we got anonymous check for 500,000.
We paid the other one. We purchased it outright. So now we have a building right now that we're...
Are you kidding?
No, we have a building right now...
And this is an anonymous check that comes up after you walk from the movie deal because they
won't talk about your face.
Well that was the first one that happened,
but this is another one.
No kidding.
Yeah, this was another one.
Yeah, yeah, that's happened.
An anonymous half million dollar check.
Anonymous, yeah.
Do you know where it came from?
I wouldn't ask.
I think.
But you don't really know for sure.
I think.
Okay, so you get a check, and you tell Marlon Brando I'm buying your building?
Yeah, so we went over.
No, so what happened was, see, I don't do good with, I have a hard time with tough guys
who think they're tough.
I just, I got to just back out of that.
You know what I mean?
So my man here, my man Kevin, he went, I said, yeah, yeah, he went over, he's suave, talks to him like,
he'll talk to you for five hours, I'll talk to you for five minutes, that's it.
But in all fairness, it really worked out. He got his number. I said to everybody,
look, is it two months? It probably was, but man, you can't put a price tag on a kid's head.
Is it two months? It probably was, but man, you can't put a price tag on a kid's head.
So we've had it for, you know, it's been, I mean, maybe three years and we're,
so we now have a contract on record. We have a million dollars now that that's in, you know, we're looking at, we're looking at more of the labor now. So here's the thing. Here's the
beautiful part about the other half. So you remember me many years ago
as an organizer, Bard for Life.
I'm the chaplain for all the unions,
all the trade unions in the city of Philadelphia.
Come on, brother.
That's crazy.
So the point was you're reaching these kids
who combat sports and you say these kids don't have a voice.
What about kids who don't want to box but are into arts or baseball or music?
That's our spot.
So now you have the second building for the non-combat sports kids.
Oh, 100%.
And now you have art programs and music programs.
Everything you can imagine. So that to me, that's where, you know, my prayer, I should say, is we want
to hear the voices of the kids be heard, because they're born into this poverty. They didn't
ask for this, man. And there's so many kids that are dealing with post-traumatic stress
disorder because of what they've seen over the years. Gunshot, bang! Kind of like a young buddy at 13, he and his four buddies watching a guy shove a needle in his arm.
It's the same crap.
It's the same, same. It's the same. Yeah, it's the same, just a different date.
So I'm in a situation now, man, I'm getting chills thinking about it. You know, it's like,
you know, we have a contract on record. We're like ready to go. Lord will in the
first quarter of 2025, we will be breaking ground and getting this thing done for these kids. I'm
excited about it. We purchased two more storefront properties. It's four in a row, right? Storefront properties, right? One is we use for a homeless, for the homeless population and for addiction, Bible studies
all week long.
The next one is a woman's care center that we have an ultrasound and we deal with the
women that are caught up in pregnancies or all kinds of, you know, women's health issues,
women that walk in the streets. So we bring them in and we
give them an alternative to aborting a child, so we believe strongly in that. We pray with them and
we help them in any area we can to take care of themselves. We don't charge any money, no money. So we purchased two more buildings,
two, just think of it, they're 20 feet wide and 120 deep.
Yeah, those store, shotgun storefronts.
So the first floor of this first building
is gonna be a barbershop, because so many kids,
they wanna learn how to cut hair.
So we're gonna open that up, and then the second,
the second building is going
to be a bakery. Like we're going to all help, bro. And then here, wait a minute, here it is now. I'm
excited about this. We have an opportunity to build three apartments on each floor at six and
two efficiencies on the first floor. So we're going to build affordable housing. We have a lot next door
to the rock now. We have a huge tent where we would sleep homeless in code blue. That was
unbelievable. When COVID came, that shut down. So we have a donation tent. So if you came in,
you won't have to pay for anything. But if you can afford a dollar to pay for a coat,
we would accept that donation because all that money goes into a benevolence fund. So if somebody
needs to go to a plane ride to get home to California because they haven't seen their parents,
we use that for that. But we just got a grant for $500,000 that's going to allow us to build the first
floor, second and third floor of, you know, so from serving
13 kids in a boxing arena upstairs, how many people you
serve in now on a thousands?
Yeah. Oh, well, well, we average about 100 kids a night. And then we have after school, we do a homeware club.
And to me, at this point, we are expanding like expedientiously with the programs.
And the kids are seeing hope. You see, look, you can sell all the dope you want I tell the dealers this I mean that's that's what you do
I'm gonna give you hope
And the hope is in Christ. He has a purpose in a plan for your life
And that's not to see you destroy it
You know when you come into a relationship with Jesus when you come into an understanding that he loves you that he died on
The cross for your sins that he loves you so much and that he cares about you.
And to me, they know it's real.
I'm an old city kid, and I don't earn, I don't get anything to do this other than the joy
of the Lord, man.
It's powerful.
It's powerful, brother.
We'll be right back.
Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted,
but turns out the end is near,
right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question.
This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight.
I'm bringing in some FOKs,
friends of Katie's to help me out like Ezra Klein,
Van Jones, Jen Psaki,
Estet Herndon, but we're also going to have some fun,
even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron.
But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like
Samantha B., Roy Wood Jr., and Charlemagne the God.
We're going to take some viewer questions as well.
I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about?
Power to the podcast for the people.
So whether you're obsessed with the news or
just trying to figure out what's going on,
this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart
radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This has to have become a, this can't be cheap.
Do you have people helping you?
Do you go out and raise money?
I mean-
We've never done that.
We never raised money.
You know, the Governor Wolf, when he came in, he came in like two years ago when he was
still, he was on his way out.
He had about a year to go and he asked, he says, where does all this come from?
And I grabbed his hand and I knelt down with everybody there and I just prayed.
I said, that's where it comes from, the power of prayer.
I don't rely on man.
I rely on the Lord to speak to man's heart.
Because when that happens, it's just an amazing blessing for that person
because the scripture says it's better to give than receive.
That's a blessing that they have.
So when people realize that, recognize that,
we all win.
So I don't know how to ask, honestly.
I'm not good at it, but it is what it is.
How many people do you have working at Sun?
We have about 65 volunteers. We have 90 percent,
if you look at our 990s, 90 percent of everything that comes in goes out into outreach. 10 percent
is for salaried employees. We only have two, you know. So everybody else, and then the missionaries what they do is they they
you know, they pray and people support them, right and then
Through an at 1099 imp as a 1099 employee, you know, so yeah, what's the change in the neighborhood as a result of this work?
Well, I look at it this way, brother.
It's one child, one family, one block at a time.
And it's the long haul, you know.
God redeems us.
Boxing don't do that. When a person is tapped into the vertical and understands
they can do all things through Christ who strengthens them, and they buy into that in a way
and they believe it, their world will change, man. So we're taking it one kid at a time,
their world will change, man. So we're taking one kid at a time,
and we're seeing a lot of change.
Because to me, I think when a family gets,
we have now, we have kids,
because I always wanted the kids,
now it's the families that are coming to church.
So on Sunday, we have it,
half the population in our church were former drug dealers,
drug addicts, prostitutes.
I bet church at this place is quite diverse.
It is, it is, it is.
Starting with the pastor on down.
Really?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah. starting with the pastor on down. Really? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
One of the things I've read and heard many times, and nothing I'm saying here is unique,
but that the most segregated day in the United States is Sunday.
And that that is, the irony of that is that that is a sin of sinners,
you know, that's a way that is unbelievably segregated.
But then I hear what you're doing and I gotta believe y'all are the antithesis of that? Yeah, we, you come as you are, you know, you come with all...
And you take all comers. All comers. We don't, we don't, everyone.
I don't care if you smell, you know, you're, you're, you know, you're homeless,
you have no shoes, but when you leave, you'll have shoes. You need a shower, we'll get you a shower.
But at some point, at some point, look, you can give a kid, a person a fish for a day,
you feed them for a day, but you teach them how to fish.
You've heard that.
There's a lot of truth to that.
And so when a person comes in, I'll give you an example.
I'll give you an example.
So we're on the radio.
We just actually just stopped that. We were on it for several years, you know. But one Saturday, one Sunday,
rather, I said, look, give me three couples. So three couples come up, boom, bang. And unbeknownst,
I married all three of them. I didn't pick this within seven years.
of them. I didn't pick this within seven years. All the women were former prostitutes. One was
taken by her, John, into his house for a year. And you know what I mean? She was captive.
Yes. She married, I married her with a guy who was locked up 49 times.
All three of them, the couples, it's just their lives were transformed because of what Christ did and what they believe.
To me, that's a powerful statement, and that's what happens every week.
You know, that's what makes change. That's what's going to change,
you know, community, I think. That's. I don't know of any other way.
I mean, I'll do my part.
I mean, when they tap into the vine, to that vertical,
that's why I was raised as a Democrat,
not to get into politics,
signed on as a Republican because of the sanctity of life and all that.
But now I'm a vertical.
Now you're a what?
A vertical.
A vertical.
If he says it, I'm doing it.
Yeah, you know, I don't want to get too deep into my own narrative on that, but there is
political law, there is man law, and there's God's law.
And they often intersect, but they rarely completely agree.
And you got to decide what law is going to govern your life.
Man, that's plaque material, bro.
Do you have that on a plaque?
I don't know. Man, that is nice. Isn't that nice? material, bro. Do you have that on a plaque?
Man, that is nice.
Isn't that nice?
Hey man, if somebody wants to hear more about The Rock
or hear more about you, is there a website?
Is there an email?
How do people find The Rock and find Buddy
after listening to this that wanna learn more?
Especially folks from the Northeast
that might wanna support you.
Yeah.
Well, you know, they can go on www.therockfilly.org
and that'll give you everything you need to know, you know?
And that's our website.
I don't know what else, you know.
Could somebody email you if they got questions?
There's an email right there that goes right into our,
and I'll get it, you know, goes right in there. It's got an email right there. Any questions? There's an email right there that goes right into our, and I'll get it, you know, it goes right in there.
It's got an email right there.
Any questions?
Absolutely.
So it's rockfilly, what is it?
It's the rockfilly.org.
Rock, R-O-C-K, D-T-H-E-R-O-C-K-P-H-I-L-L-Y.org.
Yes, yeah.
And they can find all about that?
Everything they want, everything they can find out, We're on there. My mug shot, our
mugs, everything. No, it's good. Yeah. I appreciate this, an opportunity to meet with you.
Man, I loved it, buddy.
No, we're starting a podcast at The Rock.
Good.
So we're going to have to fly you down here one day.
Maybe one day I'll come visit you. I'd love to. Buddy, it's close to the holidays,
and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you taking time
to come down and visit with us and share your story.
And you are, my friend, an inspiration to think of it,
of a kid growing up in a broken home, one 11 who dad gum near got their leg amputated who
ended up finding purpose in boxing who fought all over the world representing the country who then
became a union you can call it a recruiter or whatever but it's that job title has a lot but used your skills for violence and a job who ended up in the pin and
Is and is now engaged in saving lives in his hometown man
What a trip what a story and we always talk about it's gonna take an army of normal folks to fix stuff
And I can't think of anybody more
average and normal than where you came from and look
at what you're doing now.
I just want to thank you for being here and tell you I'm really, really inspired by your
life and what you do.
I appreciate you, brother.
And I thank you for the invitation.
God bless you, buddy.
Thank you, man.
My man.
And thank you for joining us this week. If Buddy Osborne or other guests have inspired you
in general or better yet to take action
by volunteering at The Rock, becoming a missionary there,
donating to them, getting involved in something similar
in your own community, starting something like it or something else entirely, please
let me know.
I want to hear about it.
You can write me anytime at bill at normal folks dot us and I guarantee you this, I will
respond.
If you enjoyed this episode, would you please share
it with friends and on social? Guys, subscribe to our podcast, rate it, review it. Join the Army
at NormalFolks.us. Consider becoming a premium member there. All of these things that can help
us grow. An army of normal folks.
Thanks to our producer, Ironlight Labs,
I'm Bill Courtney, and until next time,
let's do what we can.
Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric.
Well the election is in the home stretch, right in time for a new season of my podcast,
Next Question.
I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Jen Psaki,
Ested Herndon.
But we're also going to have some fun thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee
and Charlemagne the God.
We're gonna take some viewer questions as well.
I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about?
Check out our new season of Next Question with me,
Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.