An Army of Normal Folks - Deb Ellinger: Serving Women Who Are Sexually Trafficked (PT 2)

Episode Date: November 21, 2023

Deb had just lost her own house to foreclosure when she decided to start Elli’s House, which builds relationships with women who are sexually trafficked in Detroit and offers them safe shelter for transitioning to a new life. Their army of volunteers are bringing light to one of the darkest places in our country.Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an Army of Normal Folks and we continue with part two of our conversation with Deb Elinger right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. My name is Payne Lindsay and just like pretty much everyone else on the internet, I make podcasts. Throughout my career, I've had the chance to travel all over the place, investigating true crimes, researching the unexplained, I've been able to meet some of the most truly interesting people, and I've decided to sit down with them and pick their brains.

We're going to talk about life, death, unsolved crimes, and Bob wrote the cadaver note in his own words he had murdered Susan Furman. Why do they were so obsessed with dark people like that? It's maybe part of human nature. The supernatural, there's something here, truly something going on. Our biggest fears, mental health, pop culture. Just a adrenaline being on a film set is incredible.

And honestly, just whatever the hell is on our minds. Wait a minute, you should be very happy with it. You want? This is talking to minds. Wait a minute, we should be very happy with you. This is Talking to Death. New episodes of Talking to Death are available now. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of new podcast called Tosh Show.

Brought to you by iHeart Podcasts. Why am I getting into the podcast game now? Well, it seemed like the best way to let my family know what I'm up to instead of visiting or being part of their incessant group text. I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting, so not celebrities, and certainly not comedians. I'll be interviewing my plumber, my stylist, my wife's gynecologist. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire, or one that will really make you think, this isn't the one for you, but it will be entertaining to a very select

few because you don't make it to your mid-40s with IBS without having a story or two to tell. Join me as I take my place among podcast royalty like Joel Olstein and Lance Bass. Those are words I hope I'd never have to say. Listen to Toss Show in the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is the greatest murder mystery in American history. That's Rob Breiner. Rob called me, so would Ado Bryan and ask me what I knew about this crime.

I know 60 years later, new leads are still emerging. To me, an award-winning journalist, that's the making of an incredible story. And on this podcast, you're going to hear it told by one of America's greatest storytellers. Well, ask who had the motive to assassinate a sitting president? My dad, the father of JFK, screwed us at the Bay of Pigs, and then he screwed us after the Cuban Missile Crisis. We'll reveal why Lee Harvey Oswald isn't who they said he was. I was under the impression that Lee was being trained for a specific operation, then we'll

pull the curtain back on the cover-up. The American people need to know the truth. Listen to Who Killed JFK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We now return when I asked Deb, how many houses she now has? So we have two. Yep. Yep, two at each, two women at each house.

And how many women? Two. Two women in each house. And the minute a bed opens up, you're trying to bring one more in. Yeah. And we usually, I mean, I get calls all the time. Do you have bed space? Do you have bed space?

Because it's just a big need. And despite that, you're also every day on the street. Yeah. Four days a week. Four days a week. Where do, where does, where are these supply, where does the money? How does, how does this work? Yeah. So a bivalent volunteers and donations. So all of our finances come from private donors, churches, community organizations. All of our supplies to go on the street are usually packaged up or donated by different groups of people. We hand out like over 200 food packs a week. And that's all donations. Wow. How did you get the word out? So part of it was from our community, my kids high school when they were in high school. So we got the word out that way.

No kidding. Yeah. Which was really cool. And our church and other churches. So once our church got involved, I started just having opportunities to speak at other churches. So we get a lot of support from different churches and lots of different schools, but my kids' school has been a tremendous support to us. And so you're out there hustling it up? Yeah, for sure. You have to be. So on the one hand, you're hustling it up. On the other hand, you're the streets given away.

On the other hand, you're having houses donated and you're, Ials is donated. And you're, I guess trying to furnish them and keep them clean and create some type of programming for these ladies to get clean. Right. Can you know the numbers of women you've had live with you? Oh gosh, we've had, I couldn't tell you the exact number, but we've had over 50 women come in and out of our program. For various reasons, we did short-term stays. So if a police agency or law enforcement agency

would do a raid, and there was women there who were exchanging sex for food or anything, they would allow them an opportunity to come to our program and then help them get back to, so we had some women from China, for example. And so they, what do you mean China? Oh, this is a whole thing. Yeah. We'll tell you about that one. Yeah.

So I learned that women were coming from China in exchange to work for somebody who was selling them for sex. And so just to get to America? No, just to make money. You're kidding. Did they know that deal coming in? They knew the deal coming in, but what happened in our area was a lot of these women had gone

to like high-end places to do this. So Vegas was one I can use as an example. So they were saying it a really nice hotel, treated very well, given all the fancy stuff. Well then they came to the area where we're at and it wasn't like that. It was a dirty hotel with multiple women in the same room and then it got raided. And so then these women would come to us, and then we would help get them back so they could get their passport and get all that stuff and go back to their country. What I learned was they would come in, and my question was, how did you know who was picking you up, like at the airport when you got here?

And one woman told me it was the color of her suitcase. So they had a very specific color of suitcase that they had to bring. And when the ride would pull up, they would know that's who she was. You're kidding me. Uh-uh. It's fascinating. And did these girls end up addicted and stuff, do you?

No, none of these women, because they weren't here long enough. I see. But they still, they got stuck. Oh, they, yeah, they were, I mean, they stopped them that getting a, or getting rated was probably the best thing that happened to them. Wow. Mm-hmm. Were there passports taken from them?

Yes. I've read that. Yeah. Yep. Which renders them basically helpless? Exactly. Un've read that. Yeah. Yep. Which renders them basically helpless? Exactly. Unbelievable. Yeah. And so you've had 50 people come through the homes of all walks and shapes and backgrounds and everything. Yeah. Everything. Where are those 50 girls now? So some of them are doing well and living on their own. Our goal, our hope is that we would have a relationship with everybody and we have for the most part, even women that were from

China had texted us in the beginning letting us know like they got home okay. You're kidding. No, it's really sweet. Is that like, you hop out? It was so cool. Yeah. And then we have women that have relapsed and are still navigating the process of healing. And we still... Real life, yeah. Yeah. And we're still loving them through that. And then we have some women who have jobs that are now seeing their kids.

I mean, we have a whole, like, I feel like gamut of... But those success stories literally save lives. For sure. Yeah. For sure. And then there's the alternative. Tell us about Marquita. Oh, yeah, Marquita. So she was one of the first women that we met on the street. She would call me. So the phone number I give you guys, I would give them on the street.

Nate called me and texted me and told're where I'm going to meet them because it changes. And so she would text me and call me and I would meet with her. What would she say? She would be like, can you bring me, you know, tell me what she needs, but and so I do this with the girls when they walk up to the car, they're like, I need, did it, did it, did it. And I'd be like, Oh, how are you today? How was your day? We're talking about conversation first. And so she eventually learned to do that.

So we'd walk up to go, how are you? I'm like, I'm good, Marquita, how are you today? And we would talk. And she would just tell me about her day, but a man we loved her. And then she was brutally murdered, shot, and because shooting someone and killing them is not enough. You got to run them over to and set them on fire. So that's what? Yeah. Why? I don't know. Was it a a genre, a pimple?

They think so, but they don't know. They shot her. They shot her. They ran her over and then they burned her. Do you think that's a statement trying to scare other girls? Oh, yeah, because it's not the for like after that, it's happened a couple other times, minus the burning. So it's it's common to hear of a woman who got shot and then run over. Whether that be because it's a drug deal gone bad or a date gone bad. But yeah. You know, I'm hearing you, but this is not supposed to happen in our country. This is not supposed to happen in our cities. But you say it almost like it's almost common. It is. I mean, when I go on the streets and I haven't seen a girl in a couple weeks or even a week,

I start to worry like, is something wrong? I'll ask. And the instant I ask, they'll be like, I hope she's not dead. Did you check the morgue? So now I've gotten into the practice of going on the morgue's website and you can look up unidentified or unclaimed bodies is what it says. Have you identified any yet? We've had to do one.

Oh goodness. And so I look on there and the hope is that like I have their real name because oftentimes it's a street name. I have lots of real names but so I look through and so we didn't see somebody for a couple of weeks and one of our friends was like I haven't seen her. Can you just check the morgue real quick while you're sitting here talking to me? And I was like, yeah, do you know a real name? And she was like, yeah, and she's told me. And so I went and looked, I said, nope, not on here. I'm like, okay, hopefully she's okay. And that's the reality of this world. It is. But the alternate reality is you're saving them off. Yeah, I think so.

And we're loving people really well. How do you balance your obvious faith and your morality as a result of your fundamental core beliefs with what you see every day. It's challenging. I bet. Because you can start. I know you love the center and hate the sound.

I get that. Yeah, yeah. And I try to focus on that, but I mean, I don't have it all figured out. I struggle going down there and like wanting to confront the men buying sex. You know, many times we've seen that, we pull up and they're, you know, it's happening. You're like, man, I got something to say. Like, I want, I got things I want to say to this person and not get, not to think, I don't wanna think that everyone is like that all the time.

And I can start, I have to really check myself and make sure I go, I don't wanna think that every guy pulling up in a car, everywhere I go is buying sex from somebody. Like I don't wanna think that. But so I have to check myself to make sure that I don't, one, I don't bring all that home. So I come from the street and whatever happens on the street I don't, one, I don't bring all that home, so I don't, I come from the street

and whatever happens on the street, I leave on the street. I can't bring that home. I mean, I'll tell my husband, I'm gonna hit him and I'll talk about it. But then I have to go to bed and relinquish it and start the next day again. Do the, I would imagine that oftentimes,

the guys in those cars are just broken, his broken, his girls on the street. And that's what I try to remember too. Like I've heard a couple men tell me stories about how they watched their mom being sold. Like that really impacted me. I had one guy who said, I'm like, why do you do this? Like what?

What do you, why? And he said, I watched my mom and my dad or her boyfriend at the time, it was her boyfriend sold her. And that's what I learned. And that's why I do it now. And that actually helped me understand like the pain that that everyone was going through. Men and women. That everyone was going through. Men and women. I, um, you're bringing light to the darkest of dark places.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. My name is Payne Lindsay, and just like pretty much everyone else on the internet, I make podcasts. Throughout my career, I've had the chance to travel all over the place, investigating

true crimes, researching the unexplained, I've been able to meet some of the most truly interesting people, and I've decided to sit down with them and pick their brains We're going to talk about life death unsolved crimes and Bob wrote the cadaver note in his own words He had murdered Susan firm. Why did they were so obsessed with dark people like that? It's maybe part of human nature the supernatural. There's something here truly something going on our biggest fears mental health pop culture culture, just a adrenaline being on a film set is incredible. And honestly, just whatever the hell is on our minds. Wait a minute, you should be very happy, you want? This is Talking to Death.

New episodes of Talking to Death are available now. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of new podcast called Tosh Show, brought to you by I Hard Podcasts. Why am I getting into the podcast game now? Well, it seemed like the best way to let my family know what I'm up to instead of visiting or being part of their incessant group text. I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting, so not celebrities, and certainly not comedians. I'll be interviewing my plumber, my stylist, my wife's gynecologist. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother.

If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire or one that will really make you think, this isn't the one for you. But it will be entertaining to a very select few because you don't make it to your mid-40s with IBS without having a story or two to tell. Join me as I take my place among podcast royalty like Joel Olstein and Lance Bass. Those are words I hope I'd never have to say. Listen to Toss Show in the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. The assassination of President John F. Kennedy

is the greatest murder mystery in American history. That's Rob Breiner, Rob called me, so would Ado Bryan and asked me what I knew about this crime. I know 60 years later, new leads are still emerging. To me, an award-winning journalist, that's the making of an incredible story. And on this podcast, you're gonna hear it told by one of America's greatest storytellers. Well, last, who had the motive to assassinate a sitting president?

My dad, the 5JFK, screwed us at the Bay of Pigs, and then he screwed us after the Cuban missile crisis. We'll reveal why Lee Harvey Oswald isn't who they said he was. I was under the impression that Lee was being trained for a specific operation, then we'll pull the curtain back on the cover-up. The American people need to know the truth. Listen to Who Killed JFK on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How's your life?

Right now it's good. I can say there's been plenty of times it was not good. How do you fight it? How do you keep going back? I think for me it's having a good community of people and focusing on the good things that we do, trying to see the good and every little interaction that we do when I go out there and then seeing the good in that environment. Like I refuse to go out to where we where we serve people is is one of the poorest zip

codes in the city and one of the most violent. But when I go out there, I really just try to see all the good things going on in that community and the good people and the good and everyone I interact with. Otherwise, I wouldn't keep going out. I just wouldn't. So, does it take a girl finally looking at you and saying, I don't want to do this anymore?

What is it that makes you click that, okay, it's more than given this one as sandwich, she's ready. How do you know? I just bluntly ask. Really? Yeah. And sometimes women will say, I'm ready to go, but they're not always necessarily ready to go, but I'll still engage in that conversation. So we have a woman right now who's on the fence every couple days about going, not going,

but I always engage like, Hey, I'll come pick you up. Like I went to her house to pick her up and she wasn't there and she didn't go, but that's okay. It was like, it just strengthens our relationship. So I'll keep doing it. to her house to pick her up and she wasn't there and she didn't go. But that's okay. It just strengthens our relationship. So I'll keep doing it. I'll keep texting back with her and when she's ready, she'll be ready. I ask women if they're ready. Sometimes they're ready and we take them and they weren't ready. So oftentimes I like them to engage that conversation with me. I don't want to push anyone to do anything

they don't want to do even treatment, even if I know it's what's best for them. They have enough pressure and things being forced to do all day, so I won't do that. Deb, you know, admittedly, I don't even suppose to understand what's going on in between the ears of some of these folks that you serve. And, you know, a lot of what's what normal, rational thinking would be for most of hard listeners, the people you serve, sometimes just can't even think rationally, I would assume.

Right. Yeah. I remember there was a guy who no longer, no longer works here. He's retired now, but he was making $14 an hour. And he was just, did everything I asked him to do. On time would come to work, I mean, I don't even know if he ever missed a day or took sick days, just a great guy.

And in my mind, he earned an opportunity and I, three or four times tried to advance him. And he would never take the raise of the advancement. He just wouldn't, he always said, I appreciate this what I'm going to do. And before retiring, he finally told me why. And he said, all I know is loss. All I know are people without jobs. And he said, I like my life where it is. And he said, I would rather have what I have now, then risk losing what I have to chase something bigger or chase something better.

The fear of failure crippled him from allowing himself to think out of his current place. from allowing himself to think out of his current place. And it taught me such a valuable lesson about managing people and trying to work with people that, you know, the environment and the trauma and everything people come from, fear of failure can, can, can cripple someone and the fear of the unknown can cripple someone and and prohibit them from being able to advance. This was a great guy and he retired happily now and he's got so security in whatever. He could have done so much more at my company, but he was so afraid of taking the chance or going to a place he didn't understand that he just was not able to think outside where he was in that world. And what

does this have to do with you? Well, when you're thinking of rational thinking, you know, when I hear you say you've seen and developed relationship with these girls from your ice cream chuck and you're giving them food and stuff relationship with these girls from your ice cream chuck and you're giving them food and stuff and you're starting to tell them, and now they're starting to see themselves as loved and valuable, at least in the five minutes that around you.

Why in the world wouldn't they just say, okay, I'll take the treatment. I hear you, I do want out. They know they're not gonna get beaten anymore. They know they're gonna have hot food. They know they're gonna have running water. They know they're gonna have electricity get beaten anymore. They know they're going to have hot food. They know they're going to have running water. They know they're going to have electricity. They're not going to get raped.

They're not going to get pimped. They're going to be able to get out. And that's what you're offering them. While we're in every single one of them say, I'll take it. Because they're scared of the unknown. They're scared of what a treatment program would look like. They know the rules on the street. They know the rules at the drug like. They know the rules on the street. They know the rules at the drug house.

They know the rules on the block. Those rules they can follow, but giving them a whole new set of rules that they don't know, I think in addition to a lot of women have said, the detoxing portion of a treatment program is awful. It's miserable. So you're detoxing off of a drug and it can be five days and all you're doing is throwing

up and sick the entire time. So that's also scary. So the unknown of that and just the unknown of the whole environment is really, really scary. And a lot of women have actually said to me, they're addicted to the lifestyle on the street. Like the way they live their life, they're addicted to that. They're addicted to the lifestyle, so.

Yeah. What, what does it say that a woman would prefer rape and beatings to a clean life. Yeah. That they've been so conditioned by this environment that they're more afraid of a clean life than they are the sickness and the darkness that they're living in. Yeah, I think it shows the sadness of the environment, but the need of more people to step up and do things.

I just, it's, it's always been mind-boggling to me when I hear a woman go, I just kind of like it out here because I know what to expect. Even, even getting beat up, they actually start to expect that. That's not a big shock to them. And so they expect that. And then the other thing I've heard women say is when they come to our program, there's no chaos. And they've only experienced chaos. Most of them from childhood, that has been their life, has been experiencing some type of chaos. And so what we notice in our program is when you come you start to create chaos because that's the only way you know how to live. The streets provide that, the streets provide chaos and a treatment program does not typically.

Isn't it ironic that in addition to everything else we have to simply teach peace? Yes, it is ironic. Peace. In addition to everything else, we have to simply teach peace. Yes, it is ironic. Peace. Yep. Simple peace. Yeah. So I'd read that not only do you feed over 200 people each month, but it's not just girls,

it's drug dealers and pimps as well. It is. The very people that you despise the most. Yeah. And I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to do it. I really was like, we're going to do women and that was it. And then I met this guy and I was like, my gosh, he's just so broken too.

He was so broken and had just had so much trauma and he honestly just changed the way I saw all of the people. Do you think you're changing him at all? Yeah, because he's four years clean and we just had lunch with him on Saturday. What? Tell us the story That's awesome. He's so great. Yeah. Yeah, so he was he a pimper drug dealer. He would say both he would say both. Yeah, okay He we there was a a girl who got killed and he was there when it happened What do you mean he was there when it happened? They were at a drug house and it was a drug deal gone bad

and she got shot and so he called 911. Wow. Yeah. Everyone knew him on the street. I had only met him maybe one time, but I wouldn't have been able to pick him out on the street. I had only seen him once and he calls me like two days after that happened and he goes,

you don't, you don't know me, but I got your number and I'm done. I'm done with this out here. And I was like, okay, can you want me to come pick you up? And he was like, yep. So I picked him up in front of an abandoned house, put him in the car, took him to a treatment program, and we helped. So if you're in a treatment program and we've taken you there, we'll also like drop off cigarettes to you, drop off some spending money. Those things

are gold in a treatment program to have your cigarettes and a little bit of spending money. So we do that. And then we're available if you want to call us and just chat. And so we did that. He was in that program for 38 days, I believe. And then he got done with the program. Here's a big gap in our system. And they're like, okay, well, we have transitional, like another program, another level of program for you to go to, but there's gonna be three to four days of downtime.

Before they do. Right. Exactly. They're forced back. Right. So he's like, I don't know what I'm going to do for three or four days. I was like, okay, we got to think of a plan. He's like, well, my cousin has this house. I could stay there.

I was like, okay, is there like anybody there? Does it have running water? Does it have electricity? It didn't have water, and I can't remember if it had electricity. But I was like, all right, I'll pick you up and we'll go there. So that we did. And it was not like it didn't have furniture.

It wasn't like that. It was literally where he had, there was a table. He had a toaster oven. And we brought him water and some clothes and socks and those types of things. And then we spent the next three or five days doing things with him. So we took him next three or five days doing things with them. So we took them to meetings.

He went to church with us. He went to lunch with us. He went to breakfast with us. He did all the things and then got to his program that opened up and now he's four years clean and he's a pure recovery coach. What's he doing now? Yeah, so he helps other people struggling with addiction

and coaches them. Sponsors does, so he helps other people struggling with addiction and coaches them. Sponsors does meetings and he's like people sponsor. That one story alone is worth all the work. Yeah, for sure. He's amazing human being. And it's not even a woman. No, no. How many volunteers do you have?

Gosh, we have about 50 to 60 volunteers. Some are outreach, some help at the house, some pack up hygiene kits, some pack up food packs. So yeah, about 50. That is, um, I'm just, I'm just, I'm envisioning you running around down here talking to these people and the changes that the lights make. I mean, do you ever just wake up and I mean, you fully aware what you're doing? I don't know. I don't think I am, honestly.

Even just sitting here talking to you, I was like, wow, you know, we do that. That seems kind of crazy. So no, I don't. Often times we talk to people, we get emails, we get phone calls, we get everything. Alex filled a bunch of them. No, yeah, I filled a bunch of them. Alex filled a bunch more of them. In fact, we're going to, I don a bunch of them Alex filled some bunch more of them um In fact, we're gonna I don't even want to say this everybody keep emailing we're gonna keep responding. I don't I don't care if it's a thousand a day

We'll figure it out, but I mean it's it's getting to be a lot and it is an absolute honor Okay, and I'm humbled and privileged that we're reaching and people are reaching out just like you did, right? So much of what I've learned is that people's reticence to get out and get involved people's reticence to be part of the quote army of normal folks to actually engage is they have inhibitions, they have fears, or their timings not right. And the beauty of the stories that we continue to tell on army of normal folks to me, one of the beauties is I haven't found a single person that's done any work. They didn't have their own struggles. They weren't doing what they were doing because everything perfect aligned in the world and they had all the money they needed in the perfect world and everything was found in their life and they just went to do something. Rather, they did amazing work in their communities.

They engaged their discipline and passion where they saw opportunities, not because it was the perfect time or they had the perfect circumstances, but very much the opposite, despite the difficulties. Yeah. You just got over a difficulty. Yeah.

I mean, it cannot be lost on this story that you started this when you lost your own home and you started just giving hot chocolate to people at a bus stop when you just lost your home and you didn't even have enough money to pay your own bills and yet you were scrounged together money to make a chocolate for people. And your first home that was donated to you, you gave to the girls you were serving when you didn't even have your own home. And you never quit through another struggle that you just shared with me that you just

got some good news on. Yeah. Tell us about it now. So, I was diagnosed with breast cancer in November of 2022. And since then, I've gone through mastectomy, reconstruction, chemotherapy, radiation, and now I'm cancer free. So this is all good news. Yeah. And you didn't quit through all this?

No, I still, even the midst of chemo, if I was feeling good, I would go and do outreach. And there was days I, of course, I didn't feel well and I couldn't go, like literally couldn't go. But if I was feeling good, I'd get in the van and I'd go down there and. Did the people on the street know this? Oh, yeah. Like, I was very humbled when people, some women cried when I told them I had cancer. Some of the hardest women you'd ever meet.

Yeah. They're like, we can't, like, you can't die. And I said, well, it's not up to me. That's up to God. So I don't get to pick that. But so it was very humbling. Are Jake and the kids saying, all right, mom, enough. Chill out right now.

Yeah, I don't know, but honestly, being on the street fills my cup up so much. Like my love for these women is beyond what I can even understand sometimes. And so I would, when I go out there, I come home and I just, like, I feel better, like, because I've got to meet with my people that I love. Those are my people and I want to be able to see them. The other thing we talk about often is the secret sauce that pay off is you get so much more out of it than you put into it. So true. Talk about it.

It's so true. I mean, there was times when I was, I mean, obviously during chemo, you're just a hot mass physically and emotionally. And going down and just seeing how much, actually, those women love me as much as I love them has just been a gift to me, honestly. And I guess I never realized how much they do love me until those moments happened. And I would go down there and they would just, they would light up, they would just be so happy. And they were always worried that I wasn't gonna come back

because something happened, so. We'll be right back. My name is Payne Lindsay, and just like pretty much everyone else on the internet, I make podcasts. Throughout my career, I've had the chance to travel all over the place, investigating true crimes, researching the unexplained. I've been able to meet some of the most

truly interesting people, and I've decided to sit down with them and pick their brains. We're going to talk about life, death, unsolved crimes, if Bob wrote the cadaver note in his own words, he had murdered Susan Farman. Why do they were so obsessed with dark people like that? It's maybe part of human nature. The supernatural, there's something here, truly something going on. Our biggest fears, mental health, pop culture. Just a adrenaline being on a film set is incredible. And honestly, just whatever the hell is on our minds.

Wait a minute, you should be very happy, you want? This is Talking to Death. New episodes of Talking to Death are available now. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of new podcast called Tosh Show, brought to you by iHeart Podcasts. Why am I getting into the podcast game now? Well, it seemed like the best way to let my family know what I'm up to instead of visiting, or being part of their incessant group text. I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting, so not celebrities, and certainly not comedians. I'll be interviewing my plumber, my

stylist, my wife's gynecologist. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire, or one that will really make you think, this isn't the one for you. But it will be entertaining to a very select few, because you don't make it to your mid-40s with IBS without having to store your two to tell. Join me as I take my place among podcast royalty like Joel Olstein and Lance Bass. Those are words I hope I'd never have to say. Listen to Toss Show in the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcasts. The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is the greatest murder mystery in American history. That's Rob Breiner, Rob called me, so would Ado Breiner and asked me what I knew about this crime. I know 60 years later, new leads are still emerging. To me, an award-winning journalist, that's the making of an incredible story. And on this podcast, you're going to hear it told by one of America's greatest storytellers.

We'll ask who had the motive to assassinate a sitting president. My dad, 5JFK, screwed us at the Bay of Pigs, and then he screwed us after the Cuban Missile Crisis. We'll reveal why Lee Harvey Oswald isn't who they said he was. I was under the impression that Lee was being trained for a specific operation, then we'll pull the curtain back on the cover-up.

The American people need to know the truth. Listen to who killed JFK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I may have told this story once before, but I'm going to do it anyway because it's so appropriate right now. I like shrimp. Okay. More importantly, Lisa loves shrimp.

Okay. So if Lisa loves shrimp, you're eating shrimp. Madagal. That's right. So, um, I was on a business trip some years ago and I was down on the Gulf Coast and Lisa said you're coming home, right? Yes, I said go to Walmart get a cooler go to the Gas station get some bags of ice go down the docks and get some fresh shrimp and bring it home. We're gonna have a shrimp tomorrow And I mean I'd been working. I didn't feel like doing any of that, but

Lisa said go get shrimp. So you got your own. Go get sure. So I'm sitting down there. Now I don't have you ever been to like see water docks before? No. They leak. Oh, okay. All right. It's fish as it's stagnant surf water. It's oh, I mean, it's gross. Yeah. It really is. I'm sure they have places like that on like Michigan, don't they? I would think. I've never visited it so. Okay. Well, it's stink.

I believe you. Alright, so I'm down there toward the end of the day. The sun's starting to go down and it just reeks. There's flies. It's just stagnant like harbor waters gross. Yeah. It's revolting. And but I'm there with my cooler of my ice, right?

And the boats come in and I found the one thing more revolting than the dock. The fishermen. Oh. I come in and on the boat. Well, they've been up, they were out when the sun was down. Yeah. Sun came up, sun went down.

They've been 12 hours on the salt and the surfer and the mist and, you know, a toothbrush and toothpaste is more of a suggestion than a daily reality. Right. And they probably spoke a couple of packs of marble reds, right? And some of their sunburnt, their sweaty, they're covered in the sulfur of the sea and then fish guts and bait and it sounds awful. It is awful, it's disgusting. And so the whole place and the people in it, the fish, they're just, but it didn't matter because I had to get shrimp for years.

So I give my shrimp and I'm gone. And Jackson, Mississippi is about halfway between the coast and Memphis as I'm driving home. And it dawns on me that that's exactly who Christ surrounded himself with. Yeah, the stinky, nasty fisherman. And he washed the feet of prostitutes. Yeah, he did. He did. It can't be lost on your story. As a Christian, just how Christ like you're being going into this neighborhood every day has that ever dawned on you I don't know that it really has honestly I feel like I Just don't think of it. I think of it like that. I feel like sometimes I struggle with my own value and worth I guess if I'm being honest and explain that I think I

if I'm being honest. Explain that. I think I don't see myself. We often don't see ourselves as other people see us. I realize that. But I think I just question just who I am sometimes, I think. Really? Yeah. And so with that, I think. Really? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so, with that can come, like I can be, I feel like,

I have a humble heart because I don't realize who I am, but then sometimes I don't acknowledge, like all the good that God is doing in my life. Like all the good things that I do come from Him. There are anything I'm doing, but I feel like I have a hard time acknowledging that. I'd get the humility I do, but it's okay for me to say it. You're amazing. No, thanks.

And you're doing something for people in our world that get very little from our society and our community and you're serving, we always talk about what could our world be? Think of what this country could do if all of us just saw a place of need and use their passionate discipline to fill that little place of need and just do it to serve someone that's not as advantaged

as you are. Yep. Well, you're serving the least advantaged and making a difference and saving lives and you're doing it in the most humble way. Thanks. And I can't think of a better example of what we're looking for in an army of normal folk. And the thing is these streets, heck, in Detroit, there's probably two or three other areas of the city that could use this.

And Detroit or more, yeah, for sure. You're serving one area in Detroit. There's got to be more than one. There is absolutely. So if there's three or four in Detroit, how many areas like this are in the United States that desperately need somebody to stand up for them, say I love you, here's something you need, and most importantly, you need to know that you are worthy of love and you are valuable.

And if you're ready to turn your life around, we're here to help you walk through it. Yeah. Yeah. What would that do for our country? Oh my gosh We would be living in a much different world. That is for sure far less broken that is today far less broken So what's next

Well Someone just asked me the other day at a speaking event. I was at they're like what do you need? I was like, oh, I'm glad you asked because I'm gonna boldly boldly ask for another house. And so now I'm telling people, because I would like to do what's called a drop in center. I would like to have a house or a small apartment complex in our outreach area and have it be a place where women can come and get a shower, a hot meal, a place where we could help them get an ID. So a lot of times I help women get their ID while we're sitting on an abandoned porch on my computer, you know, trying to get them an ID because no one has an ID and it's gold to have an ID that says your name on it, who you are, and you can't go to many

treatment centers without an ID. So Salvation Army will take you without an ID, but most places won't, so you have to have it. So it'll be a place where we could get that. We could just be a place for them to relax and not have any pressure or stress in a couple hours. Yeah, so you want a small apartment complex. So anybody in Detroit, listen. This is really simple.

What's the area called? Seven in Chalmers. Detroit list. This is really simple. What's the area called seven and charmers? That area. There has got to be some dilapidated, empty apartment complex that has very little value that could change people's lives. And Dev is married to a guy can fix it up. So as long as the bones work, Dev can make it work. That is correct. Or anyone listening wants to donate.

They can purchase it. Oh, or if someone wants to stroke a check, we will accept that graciously. How's your house now? Great. My personal house? Yeah. Great. It's so good. Because in the middle of all of this. It's so great. My personal house? Yeah. Great.

It's so good. Because you're in the middle of all of it. It's so great. We now have a house. We've been there for five years. So yes, it's very good. And we love it. Tell me about what the kids are doing.

So my oldest lives in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And she's 25 and has a big girl job in marketing. A big girl job. I know that's what we call it, the girl job. My other daughter just got married and is looking for a job in teaching or social work. Are you a grandma? Not yet, but man, I can't wait.

I'm not yet, but Lisa wants to be so bad. Me too. We were hard on our kids. Like, we were the parents that our kids are like, why can't you just be like everybody? We were too. Yeah. No, you're cut in the grass. Yeah, we're not going to you know, you're going to do this. You got to. So we fought. I mean, we had four and four years, right? So for 26 years, we fought children. Yeah. I want grandchildren because I'm ready to spoil children. Yeah, I'm gonna need to

I know I don't think they're gonna hate when they're children come home after hanging out with me because I'm gonna spoil the crap I know it's gonna be great chocolate cake for breakfast. Yes, I scream to Yes, absolutely. Yes, all right, so the second one just got married. Yes, second one just got married Living not far from us like 10 minutes. Cool. And then I have a daughter at U of M Dearborn. She's a senior and then my son just graduated high school and he is working at Starbucks trying to figure out

what he's going to do. What's next? Give me that house and I'm going to make a drop in center and hopefully just keep loving on the community and hopefully get my husband to say we can move there too. Do the, wow, that's the second time you've mentioned it. I think Jack better pay attention. I think so too.

Do you have a corporate sponsor? Do you have, it's literally normal folks, high school parents, local people people just donating a little bit. It is. What could a big sponsor do for you? Oh my gosh. I feel like we could change that whole seven in Chalmers area. I really do.

I mean, I would be open to buying more places and just being, I just think there's so much power by living in the community that you serve and being there all the time. Like I don't want to be the person that just comes and goes, right? I want to be there for the long haul. We always talk about what can we do to fix the proverbial it? We also understand that each of our communities are only as strong as the weakest link. We also talk about what can we do to clean up, blight, what can we do to clean up, ramp it, theft, and murder, and all of the things that we're talking about,

we need to fix the make our country better. How many debt bellingers out there out there that are willing to immerse themselves in those communities to fix them. And it shouldn't be about the money or the property. It's about the army, it's about the foot soldiers, it's about the people willing to do the work. And there you are with how many volunteers

that you've gotten registered. 50. We've got a 50 person strong army in Detroit working where we need the work to be done the very most and all they need to support. Yes. That is correct. You got to quit it?

Nope. This is it. This is it. Maybe if you could get some of that money to really do some of this things we could get Jake to move there to. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great idea.

Poor Jake. The fact that you just said it, maybe we'll persuade him. That is phenomenal. Tell me, now I'm going to ask, tell me your favorite success story. Let's end on a real positive, hybrid, dimpt of note. Yeah. So, I mean, I would say even though it wasn't a female, it was Sarge, the person I talked about earlier. Really? Yes.

And I think what? His name Sarge, now a proponent. I know. You know, he's definitely, he inspires me and his enthusiasm and passion for serving and loving people. And he would say, well, that came from all the love you gave me. And it showed me how to love other people. That's what he said to me on Saturday when I saw him.

That's just inspiring to me. Do you need any more verification for what you're doing in your life than just that? Probably not. Probably not. One thing too, Sarge goes over to her house for Christmas and things. Yeah, like he's been to our house for graduation parties and he's like family. He is like family. If you were to ask him, he'd be like, yeah, you're my family. You're my people. That is just phenomenal. Yeah. So someone sitting around in another city thinking this is hard work, but I want to do it. And they want to hear more. How do they reach you? They can email me atE-313 at Yahoo.com.

Great. And I am certain that you'd be more than willing to tell everybody how they could do this in their own community. I would love to tell other people how to do this in their community because they can do it. You need a bigger voice. You need more people need to know this story. And I hope somebody is listening that recognizes the depth of the work you're doing and the

lives that you are truly changing and saving of, I mean, the most desperate situations in our country. I mean, we can't be to sensitize to what this is. Are you hearing that we have 20-year-old woman selling their bodies for food or a $20 bill living in dilapidated vacant homes that don't even have water or electricity? Therefore, they can't bathe. They can't take care of their basic hygiene and they're it's worse than a third world country for sure. Yep. In the shadows of amazing wealth all around.

Yep. And it's happening right under our nose and it's unacceptable that we allow it to happen. I agree. It is. And you're doing all you can to fix it. I am. With an ice cream truck and 50 volunteers. Yeah, ice cream truck and 50 volunteers. I love that. It has been my distinct honor to meet you and to help tell your story. Thank you.

You know, I, I, you couldn't, you're the daughter of a bus driver and a JC Penney's worker who grew up in a blue collar Detroit area who married a carpenter and had four kids and lost their house during the housing crisis to foreclosure and has fought breast cancer and in the meantime, been a light and a very dark place. You're an amazing human being and I just can't tell you how much I appreciate you coming to visit with us. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I feel privileged to be here.

And thank you for joining us this week. If Deb or another guest has inspired you in general or better yet, to take action by starting something like Ellie's house in your own city, by donating to Ellie's house or something else entirely, please let me know. I'd love to hear about it. You can write me any time at billatnormalfokes.us and I will respond. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends and on social, subscribe to the podcast, rate and review it. Become a premium member at normalfokes.us, all these things that will help us grow, an army of normal folks. For our premium members, we'll have bonus content from this episode, and it's Deb and I talking about going deep

versus going broad and philanthropic work. If you don't want to miss it, become a premium member today. Thanks to our producer, Iron Light Labs, I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week. Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of a new podcast called Tosh Show. I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting, so not celebrities, and certainly not comedians. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire, or one it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast

that will educate and inspire, or one that will really make you think, this isn't the one for you. Listen to Toss Show in the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. My name is Payne Lindsay. Throughout my career, I've had the chance to travel all over the place, investigating true crimes, researching the unexplained, and I've been able to meet some of the most truly interesting people, and I've decided to sit down with them and pick their brains. We're going to talk about life, death, unsolved crimes, the supernatural, there's something here, truly something going on, and honestly, just whatever the hell is on our minds. Wait a minute, you should be very happy with it.

This is Talking to Death. New episodes of Talking to Death are available now. Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is the greatest murder mystery in American history. That's Rob Breiner. Rob called me, so would Edo Brein,

and asked me what I knew about this crime. We'll ask who had the motive to assassinate a sitting president. Then we'll pull the curtain back on the cover-up. American people need to know the truth. Listen to Who Killed JFK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.