An Army of Normal Folks - Gina Harris: 1,700 Heroic Photographers (Pt 2)

Episode Date: September 12, 2023

When Gina’s son was stillborn, she asked Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep for one of their volunteer photographers to capture her only moments with David at the hospital and this remembrance photography is her most cherished possession. There’s 1,700 volunteer photographers around the world who’ve given free portrait sessions to 70,000 families like hers and Gina is now the CEO of this nonprofit that means so much to her. But there’s still many communities without volunteers and hopefully the Army can help. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an Army of Normal Folks and we will continue with part two of our conversation with Gina Harris right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio.

Where am I? Why, this is the Pendleton. All residents, please return to your habitation. Light stuff on your feet! You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead To Me. Am I under arrest?

We don't like to use that word. Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time. So this is a prison then? No. It's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask, or Halloween. I'm going to get out.

And how may I ask, or are you going to do that? Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, over ever you get your podcasts. There's a place beyond this place. A middle ground between the light and the darkness, the nature and the zenith. For some is a bridge between the living and the dead, yet for others is something else entirely.

It's the place where our nightmares dwell. Each one of us has touched the other side and felt the presence of something beyond this world. Welcome to Hip Hop Horror Stories. I'm your host, Belly. And each week we're going to take you to the limits of your imagination as we explore the reality of paranormal experiences. I believe in the shift for real.

And the stories you're about to hear might make you believe too. Everywhere I look, I saw something. And I looked closer and noticed there was a hooded figure. And whatever it is, it's like K-Bit, it became reality. Listen to hip-hop horror stories on the High Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey all, it's Jane Marie back with a new season of the dream. And it's exactly that for you, a dream.

For me, it was kind of a nightmare. See, I don't know if you noticed, but things have not been awesome for the past couple of years. I've personally been depressed and binging fast food and just sitting down a lot or laying down. And it seems like suddenly everyone is an expert on how to fix that. Half of all podcasts could be called, do what I say and your life will be better.

So this season we're gonna try that. By talking to the experts, those gurus, those guides. Yes, I'm talking about life coaches, and I'm talking to one about my messed up life. Come see what all the hype is about and if it's worth it. Listen to the dream on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your stories. Now we continue with Gina. On the news she received only four months after the loss of her son, David. So we got pregnant right away. And are you excited or scared? A little of both, but you know, I'd read story after story and

typically people don't have multiple losses like this. So we, and they couldn't find anything genetic or chromosomally. So it was just kind of for lack of a better words of fluke that it happened. And so things were going fairly well, but then they said the earliest you can come in is 16 weeks since the pregnancy. So we went in and the parenting toologist is looking at everything and he got really quiet and my husband and I just looked at each other and we knew. So he said go ahead and go into my office and I mean he just said nothing and he said your baby has I don't know if you knew everything exactly at that time but we ended up finding out that our baby had cystic hygromas and hydrops and cystic hygromas are cysts around the neck and then hydrops as severe swelling and fluid build up all around the baby's organs.

They weren't able to tell the gender of the baby at that point. And they knew like that we wanted to carry our baby as long as possible. They were surprised that he was even alive still with his condition. And then 24 weeks into the pregnancy, they just have me come in every week because I wasn't going to be able to fill him move. And they said it's hard stopped. So they said, well, you know, you can go home for a few days or you can induce. So I'm like, what am I going to do at home? So we went to the hospital and they induced labor at that same time. So this is now June after the October we lost David. While we're at the hospital, we got a call from the company that was doing the headstone for our son, David. And we just were like,

let's hold off. There was a plot at the cemetery right next to David. There's a baby section and we buried them in the cemetery where my dad and my sister are buried. And all of my mom's side of the family, like the six generations back. Well, I'm doing the math on this. Yeah. If you got pregnant four months after

and then this happened at 24 weeks, we're not even a year removed from the loss of your first child. No. Yeah, so I, but I knew that plot was open next to David and I didn't want to give up hope, but I also knew that if that plot got taken, I'd be really devastated that our second baby wouldn't be by his big brother. And so I'm in the hospital, and so I called the cemetery weeks before the baby's heart stopped,

and I called the cemetery. I'm like, can you just hold it for me? And I remember we went out there on Father's Day right before our second baby was born, and I'm'm like I hope we're not back here for two. And but the heart stopped and we delivered our baby and we named him Ethan. His condition was really really severe. I had a camera in my bag and I thought about just taking pictures of his hands and feet or maybe of him wrapped in a blanket of us just holding him, but I didn't do that. And we didn't want to bring a photographer out because his condition just was really tough. It was rough.

Yeah. And so because regret in my life, I didn't get photographs of Ethan. And in the years following, and this is just to say what these photographs do, often times, we felt like people would forget Ethan because I didn't have the photographs. Then David would get mentioned, but not Ethan. And that's the power of the photographs. I know what it's like to have the photographs and to start that journey with them.

And I know what it's like to not have them. And the photographs mean everything. But Ethan was the inspiration behind our medical affiliate program. It now lately made down to sleep. Because if there are 40,000 babies, we could be photographing every year and we're only doing 10% of them. We wanted to find ways we could do that and there are situations it's not conducive for a photographer to

come out or maybe a family might feel uncomfortable and so we have a program that trains nurses. They get continuing education units. We teach them how to photograph the babies. Most nurses are ready doing that. They would send us photographs. We'd retouch them, but it wasn't a formal program. So we formalized it. They get the continuing education units, the with parent permission, the nurses upload the images onto our online or secure online gallery and our digital retouch artists retouch those images. So babies like Ethan can be photographed and families can receive something.

So we also have that program available for the nurses. Ideally the photographer is going to come in and obviously do the great job as a photographer, but when they're not available, then we have that for the nurses. And the thing that now I lay me down to sleep does is the digital retouching. We deliver the images in black and white and we never change the appearance of a baby, but there's different things that happen with a baby when they pass away, like bruising and skin tears. So we do retouch those, but you know, one baby I'm thinking of that had six toes. Well, we don't edit out one of the toes. That's something that made that particular baby unique.

I've seen a picture. And to me, it looked like a sleeping baby in a blanket. It was actually a beautiful, warm, loving picture. And gosh, this sounds horrible to say, but I didn't feel like I was looking at a dead child. I just looked like I was looking at somebody's baby. And once I saw that picture and I read what you've had to say, I started to get it. You know what I mean? Even as someone who had been through it. So you and Rob have got to be having some serious discussions about having a family at this point. I mean, sure, we were two traumatic situations. Are you thinking no more children? Well, you know, at that point, we were grieving the loss of our babies, but also the fact that we may never have children and grieving that as well. Yes. And so we weren't sure what

to do because the doctors couldn't find any connection and the only thing we were told was maybe you can't have a healthy boy because maybe one of my ex-chromosomes was passing on to the boy, but that was just still a theory. And so my husband and I did try two more times and those pregnancies ended in miscarriage. At that point, we didn't know what we were going to do. And it was 2011. And I found out about now I lay me down to sleep. They were looking for a CEO.

I wasn't looking for a job. I just came across it just being a nonprofit. And so I reached out to Cheryl, one of the founders. And who knew the strength of it more than you? Yes. Yeah. And so Cheryl said we just tired the position, but send your resume anyway. And because of where I had worked before, we had a lot of government grants. So I didn't have to make a resume because those always had to go in with the grants we applied for. And so I just sent it on with a letter and then a week later they called me and they said that the person they offered it to declined.

And so they brought me in and the interview was more like how can we get you to work here? So it was it was a really big move for me because I didn't know what we were going to be doing about children. I had no idea, but we were just kind of putting a pause on it. And by that point, I think I'm what, 37, 38 years old, my clock's ticking, and we just, we weren't sure. We kind of loosely started looking at adoption, but we weren't sure. And then I literally was now leaving me down to sleep for, would have been two months, and I found out it was pregnant. We were not planning it. Like, it's not, I mean, listen, this is one of the deepest,

most, heart-tugging, podcasts I've ever done. And typically I do a lot of off-off-the-cuff jokes in the middle of stuff, but I just can't muster them right now. But I do have to say, I can't help but notice the irony that after everything you've been through and you're 37 years old and you take a job as the director of this unbelievable volunteer nonprofit organization who has met so much to you and your husband and your family and then you can prognate again.

Yeah, I don't know how it happened either. I didn't even see him. I was leaving my other job and coming into a new one, but it was a really big surprise. And so I'm thinking, how am I going to walk through this pregnancy? Because the odds are I'm going to lose this baby because I had already lost four. So I just took it day by day. We'll be right back.

What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. Where am I? Why, this is the Pendleton. All residents, please return to your habitation.

Light stuff on your feet! You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead to Me. Am I under arrest? We don't like to use that word. Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time.

So this is a prison then? No. It's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask for you going to do that? Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the IHART radio app, Apple

podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's a place beyond this place. A middle ground between the light and the darkness. The nature and the zenith. For some it's a bridge between the living and the dead. Yet for others is something else entirely. It's the place where our nightmares dwell. Each one of us has touched the other side and felt the presence of something beyond this world.

Welcome to Hip Hop Horror Stories. I'm your host, Belly, and each week we're going to take you to the limits of your imagination as we explore the reality of paranormal experiences. I believe in the shift for real and the story's here about to hear might make you believe too. Everywhere I look, I slow something. And I looked closer and noticed there was a cutters figure. Whatever it is, it's like it became reality. Listen to hip-hop horror stories in the high-hard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey all, it's Jane Marie back with a new season of the dream. And it's exactly that for you, a dream.

For me, it was kind of a nightmare. See, I don't know if you noticed, but things have not been awesome for the past couple of years. I've personally been depressed and binging fast food and just sitting down a lot or laying down, and it seems like suddenly everyone is an expert on how to fix that. Half of all podcasts could be called, do what I say and your life will be better. So, this season we're going to try that. By talking to the experts, those gurus, those guides. Yes, I'm talking about life coaches.

And I'm talking to one about my messed up life. Come see what all the hype is about and if it's worth it. Listen to the dream on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your stories. We got through the first trimester and things were looking good. I can read ultra sounds now. I'm like, I see a mnotic fluid

and looking back at Ethan's ultrasound when he was younger, I could see the cystic hygromas, but they weren't looking for that at the OB's office. So. And you know what you're looking for back then? I didn't know them, but I know now. So I have a backup career.

See, sometimes we can joke, okay? So I am, I, yeah, so just take it day by day and then we get phone calls and somebody's the same, you know, 28 weeks gestation or whatever and I'm like, oh, that's how far along I am. But at the 16 weeks, we were able to see if this baby would be healthy and I'm thinking this baby's healthy. Like, and I'm thinking this baby's healthy, like, and I'm thinking this baby's a girl. And me being this chair coach, I'm like, when can I get her into chair leading?

So, and there's more to this, okay? I have to ask you something in the middle of this. I'm sorry, but I just, you've lost four children. And now you're running the organization that takes pictures of dead children for grieving families and you're pregnant. I cannot imagine that every time there's a call or every time there's every time your organization sends a photographer out,

you have to be identifying with that and then internally wondering, am I gonna do this again? Am I, I mean, you had me freaking out a little, I'd have been freaking out if I was Rob out of really been freaking out because, I mean, you know, I'm kind of old school But I kind of feel like one of my biggest jobs in life Is to defend and make my family feel safe my beautiful wife and my four children. It's my job to make them safe

and Rob can't and I can only a man this situation and my only I just I can't even imagine what he's going to. Well, and he if you're here right now, he would say like especially when I lost Ethan, just because there was a lot of complications going on just with me. That he's never felt so helpless that he can't do anything. That's horrific. Yeah. Yeah. So you're pregnant and you're managing this non-profit that takes pictures of babies and you yourself are not completely convinced

that you won't have to go through this again and you're trying to carry this child to term having lost four children. You had to have been out of your mind a little bit. Had two of concern. Well, I mean, one thing that's helpful is we have dispatch lines and all of our cities. So I'm not taking all the calls or building them, but like sometimes things come up to me or after the fact. And then I'm talking to a family later or they made a donation. So I'm calling and thinking them and I'm hearing their story and thinking, oh, they lost their baby at this point. And I'm at this point. And I'm not sharing with them, of course, but hey, I'm pregnant. So, you know, just, but I will say, um, it was hard, but I think because I've

just been through stuff in life. Um, I just, unfortunately, I can function in trauma. You sold your dawn is what you did. Yeah, yeah, and I know not everyone could do that. You know, just my faith really is a big part of it, but unfortunately I have a gift of being highly functioning in dysfunctional chaotic situations and traumatic situations. And I think that's probably why I was able to do it

because unfortunately I've been just kind of grew up with like this trauma, then that trauma, then this happening. So tell us about the practice. Okay, so I am thinking, okay, I think this is a girl and I want to get her into cheerleading. So I look it up and I'm like, she's 18 months old. You know, I think it's gymnastics. Gotta get the tumbling first, right? So we go in and Miracastiously optimistic and I said, if this baby is healthy, it's a miracle. If this baby's a boy,

it's a bigger miracle. And so she goes through, she checks everything out, and she said, your baby's completely healthy. And I'm like, are you serious? Like, we were so excited. She said, do you want to know the gender? And we said, yes, We want to know. And on the screen, it popped up. It's a boy. And we were being told that we were having a healthy baby boy that we were told we couldn't have. Marical miracles. Yes, yes.

And so, but I'm only 16 weeks into the pregnancy and I've got to go 40. And, man, I went in almost every week just to be like, I don't know if I felt a move for like three minutes. Can you check? Right. You know, I'm just checking. So anyone who's going through a pregnancy after a loss, like, don't worry about how they

look at you or how they act when you go into the doctor and just say, check my baby, please. Always, the count the kicks the kicks like keep track. But it was like, it was, the pregnancy was pretty good. And yeah, so I ended up in 2012 August, a 2012, they were going to induce me early because of my risk. And I told them, I said, I'm due August 20th. And they're like, no, you're due August 27th. I'm like, I know I'm due August 20th. Like I know the math. I kept telling them, I'm due August 20th. They said, well, we're going to end due August 21st. And I'm like, but you need to do it a week early. And I do August 20th. They're like, no, you're not. I'm like, I know

when I got pregnant, I know I'm due the 20th. They wouldn't listen to me. So probably like 2 a.m. on August 20th, my water broke. And so I went to... Of course. I went to the hospital and everything was just working. Like, with David, I had to have... They had to try 12 times to get my epidural. 12th. I have the record at St. Joe's Hospital in Denver, by the way, I think.

And with Ethan, it was multiple times. And I'm like, I don't know if I'm doing this all natural, because I don't want to, like, give me the drugs, but I also don't want a needle going in my back that many times. That's scary too. So I told them- And I'm done feel good. Yeah, I told the anesthesia all just, amest Amestigiologist, a woman, by the way. I was like, you have one try.

And she did it because there's something weird in my back. I don't have an injury or anything, but that was what the issue was. And she got on the first try. I'm like, can I buy you a gift card or something? Like, what can I do for you? So I am, you know, we're laboring, but then I'm not really dilating, maybe we went

mcconium, like all these things are happening, the heart, it's going up and down, and it's like 5 p.m. at that point. So it's been like 14, 15 hours since by water broke. And of course, I know, you know, I know everything that can go wrong. I know every story of how a baby died. Like, I know all the stories. It's what you do for a living now. Yeah. And so I asked the doctor, I'm like, do I need to get a C section?

And she said, if you, she said, if something doesn't change in the next hour or two, we probably will. But if you want to make that decision to do it, we'll just go ahead and do it. And I just didn't want to make the wrong decision. Like, that was my biggest fear that I'd make this decision. So she left and she was only gone for a minute. My husband and I started talking about it. They ran in. They said, your baby made the decision because of the heart rate. They rushed me in and thankfully I had that epidural because then I was like ready and prepped for a C-section. And we have it on video and this just actually popped up as a Facebook memory of I told my husband I'm like you get video no

matter what happens like you just let it roll let the video roll. And with you know a C-section it takes a little bit for the baby to cry, but our son, R.J. let out his first cry and it was the most amazing sound you could ever hear because I, yeah, just in hearing my husband and me and our responses just on video, just, it was beautiful. So we now have a healthy 10-year-old boy. And he is so insightful. He always knew his big brothers. We brought him home from the hospital of the onesie that said little brother. And you know, took him to the cemetery with, you know, David and Ethan, they're very next to each other.

And we, you know, he's just always known his big brothers. And he knows David and Ethan, like, I have a video of him when he was two and he's, he's like, David, Ethan, brothers. And just saying that, but when he was about five or six, this kid, he's like, Mommy, did you have any other babies in your tummy besides David and Ethan and me? I'm not gonna lie to him. I mean, I share my story, but you know,

he wouldn't have heard my whole story. And I said, actually, I did. They were very very very tiny and he's like what's their names and I said well daddy and I we just had nicknames for them one was called Sib for sibling a little sibling and then the other one was BB for baby and so that's Sib and BB and if you ask RJ how many siblings he, he'll say he has four big brothers in heaven, David, Ethan, Sib and BB. And he's 10 now. And I'm glad that he knows his big brothers.

During the pandemic, I think he was seven at that time. He became really a parent that his brothers weren't here because he went probably two or three months without seeing a kid at all. And he would cry. Like, I wish I had my brothers here because he'd be on like FaceTime with friends and stuff. Faceboard, I think. Yeah, and they'd be with their siblings.

And I think it was that time he really understood, like, how I should have brothers. And even to this day, there's times where he'll say stuff. But he's been given just such a gift of just gentleness but fierceness. And even when I remember driving him to kindergarten one day and he said, Mommy, will you tell me more about your dad? Like he's like, tell me about Papa.

That's what the grandkids called my dad. And of course, my son never knew him. And I told him about my dad. And he's like, I'm sorry that your dad died when you were so young. Like, the insight and the wisdom and the compassion, he had so young and he still does. We'll be right back.

What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season four of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. Where am I? Why, this is the Pendleton.

All residents, please return to your habitations. Light stuff on your feet! You knew here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead to Me. Am I under arrest? We know what can use that word. Can I leave of my own free will?

Not at this time. So this is a prison name? No. It's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask for you going to do that? Escape.

Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's a place beyond this place. A middle ground between the light and the darkness, the nadir and the zenith. For some it's a bridge between the living and the dead, yet for others it's something else entirely. It's the place where our nightmares dwell.

Each one of us has touched the other side and felt the presence of something beyond this world. Welcome to Hip Hop Horror Stories. I'm your host, Belly. In each week we're going to take you to the limits of your imagination as we explore the reality of paranormal experiences. I believe in the shift for real and the stories you're about to hear might make you believe too.

Everywhere I look, I store something. And I looked closer and noticed there was a cutish figure. And whatever it is, it's like it became reality. Listen to hip-hop horror stories on the High Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, all, it's Jane Marie back with a new season of the dream. And it's exactly that for you, a dream. For me, it was kind of a nightmare.

See, I don't know if you noticed, but things have not been awesome for the past couple of years. I've personally been depressed and bingeing fast food and just sitting down a lot or laying down, and it seems like suddenly everyone is an expert on how to fix that. Half of all podcasts could be called, do what I say and your life will be better. So this season we're going to try that. By talking to the experts, those gurus, those guides. Yes, I'm talking about life coaches. And I'm talking to one about my messed up life.

Come see what all the hype is about and if it's worth it. Listen to the dream on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your stories. When you're talking to other parents who now I lay me down the sleep has taken pictures for, are your feelings and stories similar? I mean, is it almost a universal thing that that the work that Naomi does down to sleep does and the the the the the photographers that volunteer is an almost universal that um their life is enriched by having this virus? Oh, 100%. Yeah, I mean, over and over and over.

And do the siblings of those parents also identify with that? Yes, absolutely. Now, being with the organization almost 12 years in this organization's 18 years old now, I just interviewed Erica and Tom. Their baby Matthew was the first baby to receive photographs from now, I lay me down to sleep as an organization. And Cheryl, the founder, she had lost her baby Maddox just a few months prior, three months prior,

and started this organization like in her grief. So Erica and Tom have kids that came after Matthew. And we talked about that, but over and over and over, the siblings, the parents, grandparents, they're just so grateful. If anything, I get back from parents are if they ended up not or declining our services, they tell us tell the nurses to be persistent.

Like, the basically force parents who, and they can't do that, honestly, but I do think the medical affiliate program is an amazing way that we can still get the photographs. And we tell the families, you never have to look at them, but they'll always be there. We sadly get some families that, yeah, they come back and they wish they would have gotten those photographs or they've reached out to hospitals to see, like, did you take any pictures of my day? So you can take photographs. You don't have to look at them. If you feel like it's not something you want to do, but three years later, if you do, they're there. You're in 40

countries. Well, we have been present in 40 countries. We've paired that back because we weren't really able to serve some of them very well. Like we'll give them information, but language and cultural barriers really hinder our ability to do a good job there. So we give them the information if they want to do that. But we're basically in a lot of the European countries in Australia and South Africa and New Zealand. It's phenomenal. It's a phenomenal story that you are beneficiary and it means so much to you

of an organization that you end up being the executive director of. And while you're the executive director of it, you finally get delivered to you, a healthy baby. It's a beautiful story. And they're called rainbow babies. That's what RJ is. Is a rainbow baby because that's just that promise. The promise for sure. I get it. So I share my own email address and you know one of the one of the goals obviously one of the goals of the podcast is to tell thought-provoking stories, predictive stories and of course explain that the amazing work you've done in your amazing story, just a normal kid from Colorado who dealt with a whole lot of stuff, but look where you are now

and how much this organization now let me down asleep has meant your life. And we hope that there's a photographer out there listening or two or three photographers listening, or maybe even a mother and a father right now dealing with some of the things you and Rob dealt with and so We want to we we share who we are so if somebody wants to get in touch with you about either volunteering for now, lay me down to sleep or need your services. How do they get in touch with you? volunteering for now, lay me down to sleep or need your services. How do they get in touch with you?

Go to nowalameedown to sleep.org, and then if you need services, just click on Find a Photographer. We really recommend that the nurse call us, but if you know ahead of time like I did, then call ahead of time, and then we can arrange for a photographer to be there if there's an induction day or a C-section scheduled. So if you're needing a photographer, just click Find a photographer to be there if there's an induction day or a C-section scheduled.

So if you're needing a photographer, just click find a photographer. And if you're interested in volunteering, just click on volunteer. And that has all the information. We need photographers. We also need digital retouch artists. We also need other volunteers to help spread the word and do other work for us. We like dispatchers too. So we have people that are not photographers that dispatched the calls and help arrange to get photographers to the hospital. Got it. I'm going to tell you something, Gina. Amazing story about Namalemi down to sleep. Also amazing story about your own personal perseverance through an enormous amount of tragedy. And I sit here and I'll look at this mom who is running this organization who just redeemed her vows to her football coach has been

robbed and has RJ. Is RJ playing football, by the way? Well, there's more to that story. So we put him in everything football, baseball, basketball, and he did pretty well at several, several of those sports. Well, not even two years ago, he's like, mommy will you teach me a backhand spring? I was like, sure. He got his mom's jeans. And he like, he like, I taught him a cartwheel before that and then we're we're on the trampoline I'm like you can move us to the grass. Let's do it on the grass and then my husband said Should we put him in all starch here? That was my husband football coach. Yeah, and I'm like You know, I imagine my son being a football player, but I mean sure

So we brought him in and we thought maybe he could do like a, just like a prep team or something and the coach that was like, we'd like to put him on an elite team. Okay, this is July of 2021. So he, he does an elite team. It's, you know, in Denver and he loves it and he's like, and then I'm like, I'm old school. I'm like, boys are bases like make him base. He's not a flyer. Well, then he pulled one, I'm old school. I'm like, boys are bases, like make him base. He's not a flyer.

Well, then he pulled one of his crazy flexibility tricks. It's called a scorpion for those of you who know cheer. And the coach looked up at the window at me and I just put my arms up and he's like, you're going up. And RJ was the boy flyer on the team. Then they moved him up to level two this last year. And he is like, he now has pretty much level five tumbling skills. So that's like, he has a full, like, I don't know how much you on the

springs is not too far from you. That's where the Olympics are, where the Olympic Committee is. Well, cheerleading is going to be a Olympics sport. It's been voted in. Right. I know. So I said that. So he, um, so then his team didn't qualify for summit, which is like the big thing at the end of the season in Florida. So they asked him to move up to the level four team to fly. And he did amazing. We just got back from Florida a few weeks ago. And now he's, next year he's old enough to try out

for the youth team USA. And ask the coaches, you can ask my husband, like I did not push this, this is him. He's like I'm going to the Olympics and he's teaching himself like he's flipping on his own. He has a full now, which is you're flipping and twisting at the same time. And it's like all him and I keep having to tell him,

stop RJ, it's time to go to bed. Like he trains and trains, he we have a tumble track. So it's probably my fault because I was looking up, when can I get my kid into cheerleading, but I was thinking I was having a girl, but I'm just so excited as a mom and a coach that, he's not just like, oh, I like cheer, because I always said if I have a girl,

she'd better be very gonna cheer or just don't like it because I don't know if I want and he's good. As any parent, as any parent listening to us and unionized parents and all other parents know, these kids do not come out with an owner's manual and they do and you and I believe they do and you and I believe that though nature versus nurture thing, we can guide them and teach them and love them and channel their energies. But if they're going to be a football player, they're going to be a football player. If they're going to be a cheerleader, they're going to be a cheerleader and it's our job just to try to assure that along with as best we can. So I'd listen, I had all kinds of expectations

that all four of my kids were gonna be ex and none of them are that and they are the most delicious, rewarding thing in my life. And my expectations be damned. I'll take them just like they are. Well, I always thought it'd be cool to raise an Olympian. I'm like, oh my gosh, this could be realistic. That's awesome. I think that cheerleading gets voted in as an Olympic sport.

And then, and then here comes flying Arjun. Not, I can tell him I wanted that for him. He's just, he's just disciplined and so. It's amazing, but what's the most amazing thing is that you and Rob were blessed after all the years of trying and after a father and a sister and four children that at your point in life you're running an organization taking care of people who've dealt with trauma just like you dealt with and raising your son and Gina. You were just a normal person who had an extraordinary life and it did an extraordinary work with now lay me down

asleep, and it has been my distinct honor to meet you. Thank you. It's so nice to meet you. Thank you for being here. And thank you for joining us this week. If Gina or any other guest has inspired you in general or better yet to take action, by becoming a volunteer photographer, telling friends who are photographers about now I lay me down to sleep, introducing your hospital to them, or donating to them, or

something else entirely, guys I really want to hear about it. You can write me anytime, at billatnormalfokes.us and I promise you, I'll respond. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends and on social. Subscribe to the podcast, rate, review it, become a premium member at normalfokes.us, all these things that you can do that can help us grow an Army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week. 13 days of Halloween pennants. Season four of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. If I am under arrest, you have to tell me what I'm charged with.

Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead To Me. Please, spend some kind of mistake. I'm not supposed to be here. How do you know? I'm innocent. Are any of us truly innocent? Primering October 19th, ending Halloween. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts over wherever you

get your podcasts. If you really want to know what's going on in this country heading into the 2024 election, you have to get away from the extremes and listen to the middle. Hi, Jan here in Kansas City, Missouri. On the podcast, the middle with Jeremy Hobson I'll take calls live every week, elevating the voices of Americans who are so important when it comes to who's in power and what gets done.

My name is Venkat, I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia. Listen to the middle with Jeremy Hobson on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join former 90210 star Brian Austin Greene, along with Dancing with the Stars' fan favorite Sharna Burgess and Hollywood air-turned-life coach Randy Spelling, as they navigate life, love, and the quest for happiness in the new podcast, Oldish. After a few high-profile relationships and a very public divorce, have I finally found

the secret to happiness and the key to a successful relationship? That's harpsaw, because that is with me. Listen to Oldish on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.