An Army of Normal Folks - Jim and Melinda Hollandsworth: When Dropping Off Christmas Presents Felt Yucky (Pt 1)

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

When Jim and Melinda brought presents to a low-income family, they felt off and weird that the relationship would stop there. So they kept coming back to their largely immigrant mobile home park and families asked them to help their kids with homework. Today, their accidental nonprofit Path United operates community centers in 7 mobile home parks and serves 600 kids every week!Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We are like the most normal white people from Georgia you've ever met, but we grew up only knowing people like us. There was a little bit of diversity in our schools, but we didn't have any friends that were different than us. It wasn't until we were adults traveling overseas, getting exposed to people who are very different than us that we started to kind of see a bigger picture. So when we come home, we still look around, we still got these blinders on,

we're driving down the same roads, we're going to the same restaurants. Well, there's a mobile home park, three miles from where we live, that I, we had both driven past for 30 years and never knew it was there. Like for both of us to go to the University of Georgia from where we grew up we had to drive by this mobile home park. I mean I would say a thousand times like

we've driven past it and never even knew it was there until this one day in 2008 when we drove in. Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur. And I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis. And that last part, it unintentionally led to an Oscar for the film about our team. It's called Undefeated.

I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people and nice suits using big words that nobody understands on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks. That's us, just you and me deciding, hey, I can help. That's what Jim and Melinda Hollinsworth, the voices we just heard, have done. When they drove into the mobile home park, they ended up developing relationships that transformed their lives in so many ways. Today, their nonprofit, Path United, operates community centers in seven mobile home parks and they do life with 600 students every

single week. I cannot wait for you to meet Jim and Melinda right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. When the Taliban banned music in Afghanistan, millions were plunged into silence. Radios were smashed, cassettes burned. You could be beaten or jailed or killed for breaking the rules. And yet, Afghans did it anyway.

This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol. The danger they endured. They said my head should be cut off. The joy they brought to the nation. You're free completely. No one is there to destroy you. No one is there to destroy you. I'm John Legend. Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Gets in your head, right? Good. Because every year, dozens of children are forgotten in the backseat of a car by a parent or caregiver. All never thought it could happen to them. But with changes in routines, distractions, or a sleeping child, it can happen to anyone. Parked cars get hot fast and can be deadly. So get it in your head. Check the backseat. A message from NH fast, and can be deadly. So get it in your head.

A message from NHTSA and the Ad Council. Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception. I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all-new story of betrayal. Stacey thought she had the perfect husband. Doctor, father, family man. It was the perfect cover for Justin Rutherford to hide behind. They led me into the house and I mean it was like a movie. He was sitting at our kitchen table. The cops were guarding him. Stacey learned how far her husband would go to save himself.

I slept with a loaded gun next to my bed. He did not just say, I wish he was dead. He actually gave details and explained different scenarios on how to kill him. He, to me, is scarier than Jeffrey Dahmer. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt, and we're the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart podcasts.

It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting. Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more. Here's a clip from an upcoming episode featuring the weekly home checks, Keyshawn Lane, that you won't want to miss. A common mistake that a lot of people do, they use fabric softener when it's not so great for your clothes. Should we never be using fabric softener? No, you should not ever be using fabric softener. It leaves a deposit on our

clothes, which is also left in the machine. And it also makes the clothes highly flammable. Wait, what? Yes. What you want to do instead is just use a quarter cup of vinegar. And that'll make them softer? That'll make them softer. And if you want it some kind of scent, you can use essential oils. Wow, wow, wow.

Catch new episodes of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult every other Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. by Capital One. Coming back to Las Vegas. September 20th and 21st, streaming live only on Hulu. Don't miss. Big Sean, Camila Cabello, Doja Cat, Gwen Stefani, Pozier, Keith Urban, New Kids on the Block, Paramore, Shaboosie, The Black Crows, Thomas Rhett, Victoria Monet, and more. Get tickets to our 2024 iHeartRadio Music Festival,

presented by Capital One right now, before they sell out. At AXS.com. ["Dreams of a New World"] Jim and Melinda Hollingsworth, welcome to Memphis. Thanks for having us, Bill. Thanks, hey, we've had some weather. Is the flight bumpy or is it all right? It's actually good,

and hey, we had a lot of weather that weekend too, but today was great. Really? No problem. Just a straight shot from Atlanta. I'm sure Delta, right? Delta, straight shot. If I'm in a flight, good. Well, thank you for being here.

I am still a little foggy. My son was married this weekend. Oh, congratulations. Thank you very much to a beautiful young lady named Eliza Lundy, who is now Eliza Courtney. So we now have five children because she is now part of our family. And it was in Jackson, Mississippi.

And so we did that all weekend and drove back. So if I seem groggy or say something ridiculously stupid, I'm writing it up to a really way too big rehearsal dinner and reception after the wedding. So I'm still recovering. That's okay. Absolutely. Yeah. So yeah, thanks very much. Let's start with you, Melinda. Ladies first, tell me just kind of where you're from and how you came up. Well, I grew up not too far outside of Atlanta, Georgia. You definitely have the Southern girl accent working.

Okay, okay, it's there, it's there. There's not really anything interesting, pretty typical growing up outside of Atlanta. Mom and dad, what'd they do? They, my mom was a teacher, my dad worked in insurance. So like nothing super- Siblings? Yeah, I have a sister.

She's three years younger than me. Got it. And where you said outside of Atlanta, where? Yeah, Gwinnett County is where we are. Like where are we from? Let's say Snowville. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, the closest landmark for both of us,

Stone Mountain Park. If people know where Stone Mountain, Georgia is. Yeah, for sure. East of Atlanta, we're right there. I got it. And so you grew up there and then went to school because you were trained as a teacher. I was one of the University of Georgia.

Yeah. Go Bulldogs. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to have us a showdown later this fall in Oxford. You know, George is going to be rolling into Ole Miss and Ole Miss ought to be salty this year in Georgia's Georgia. So we'll be friends until that Saturday. OK. Yeah, that sounds great. All right. So you went to UGA. Yeah. Then I moved back to Gwinnett County, um, where I taught elementary school with Jim's mom for three years and we met on a blind date. His mom set us

up. Your mom set you up. Yeah. That's a boy. She's working. I mean, getting you married off and everything. That's right. We joke, she got to pick her daughter-in-law. Yeah. Pretty much. So you taught school with Jim's mom. I was a second grade teacher. She was a kindergarten teacher.

Like we always had lunch at the same time for two years. And then the third year, she went to all of my friends and said, I really think Melinda should date my son. And I was like, no, no, no. I really liked his mom. So I was afraid like, oh, if we go on a blind date and this doesn't help. And everything's awkward, yeah.

And so I said, that's fine. I'll meet him for coffee, but I'm not gonna ride with him and I'm not gonna like do a whole meal. And so we called and we talked on the phone for 45 minutes and then he picked me up and we went to dinner. The rest is history. We were married a year later, less than a year later, 10 months later. Yeah. So four months. Jim, you got game. That's a fast one. Hey, listen. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know how. Well, so the whole story is

really cool. I remember my mom coming home. So I was a senior in college. Munda is a couple of years older. So she was teaching. I was a senior at Georgia. Munda's a great robber. That's right. My mom says, Hey, there's this girl, there's this teacher you should meet. I'm like, you're crazy. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not going to go out with all the teacher that you're setting me up with, but she showed me a picture and I was like, okay, that sounds good. For everybody listening, Melinda is beautiful. So I called her and we went on a date.

Yeah. Four months later, we got engaged. Four Yeah. Four months later we got engaged. Four months. Four months. Yeah. Wow. And five months after that we got married. So it's pretty quick. So this was landline time. Yeah. So like he had my phone number on a piece of paper and he called my apartment and my roommate answered. And so when I got home, we were both pretty cynical about blind dates. Yeah. And then for good reason. for good reason. Yeah. And so I got home and she said, I think I just talked to your husband on the phone. We'd been friends since first grade, my roommate and I. So she liked him. Yeah. So he called before I got home.

Did you always want to be a teacher, your mom being a teacher, was that a thing? My mom was a teacher and I was always kind of good with working with kids, but I actually went to Georgia originally to be a physical therapist. I don't even know why I chose that and then changed my major within the first few months of into work well for me. Where'd you grow up, Jim? So the cool story is we grew up, you know, five, six miles from each other. So in the same community, we did not, we went to neighboring high schools. So where we were, Snowville, Georgia, near Stone Mountain,

Gwinnett County, really big schools, really, really large population east of Atlanta. And so we were close, but went to neighboring large high schools. And so we never knew each other growing up. What were the two high schools? I went to South Gwinnett High School. Melinda went to Shiloh High School. Got it. Neither were great athletically, you know, kind of we were in the shadows of some other

schools, but we were probably in the same place at sporting events, all that kind of stuff. We didn't know each other. That's crazy. The crazy story is that once we met, when our parents met, we realized, so both of our parents went to the same high school in Snaleville, like we both have deep roots in the same community, so we go back multiple generations, like our families knew each other. We actually had to check, like, are we related? You know, we had-

And we are not. We did, we did one of those. Well, cause all these connections are happening. It is over in the mountains at the south. I mean, that's completely- That's right. There's banjo music playing I mean, that's completely, that's right. There's banjo music playing at your wedding. So it's a cool story, but we're from the same place.

Yeah. So tell me about your parents. How'd you grow up? Yeah. So I grew up really similar, just a middle-class suburban family. Um, my dad's family is from Tennessee. My mom's family has deep roots in Snowville, where we're from. And I grew up the oldest of four boys.

So lots of, I mean, lots of fights, lots of, you know, sports, yeah, not whole life growing up playing sports. I mean, just a, just a normal kid. I wasn't great at sports, but I love sports. Went to UGA just like Melinda. Again, we didn't even went to the love sports. Went to UGA, just like Melinda. Again, we didn't- They all even went to the same college. Went to the same college, didn't know each other

until I was a senior in college. Melinda was already graduated before we even met. So what'd your dad and mom do? Yeah, so my mom was a teacher as well. Unreal. I mean, kindergarten teacher. My dad was in sales, business, you know, a variety of things. And what'd you major in?

I majored in history at UGA. I wanted to teach history. Well, actually, I don't know what I wanted to do. I just liked history the best and it seemed easy. Okay, well, I'll major in this. No kidding. And then you are a pastor. How'd that happen?

Because when y'all met, right, you were already out of school teaching, so you'd started some kind of profession. I did, so I was a senior in college, graduated with a history degree, applying to graduate school for history programs to try to go on and get a master's and then a PhD and teach history in college, that was my idea. So we got married and moved to Charleston, South Carolina for me to go

to grad school at College of Charleston. So I got accepted. We moved right after we got married. Melinda got a teaching job. I got a job caddying the ocean course on the side. He made more money caddying than I made. Yeah, I was a golf caddy for a year while I went to grad school. But in grad school, I quickly realized this is not what I want to do. So I've gotten married. I've moved to Charleston all because this is what I'm going to do. And you know what? That's not what I want to do. Yep. All of a sudden. But the cool part of the story is we got plugged in with a church. So we both grew up in church, going to church, but I think both of our stories, our faith stories center around our college years is where we really made the decision to

have a more serious faith and follow Jesus. In college? Yeah, both of us in college. That's kind of atypical. Yeah, yeah, kind of, yeah, for sure. So we both kind of grew up going to church, but it wasn't a huge thing. At least for me, you know, I was a junior in college, got involved in a local Bible study. And then, so when we got married, we got involved in a really great church in Charleston called Seacoast Church, just a wonderful place. Really formative for us, we were in a small group with other young married couples. And that was for me, a season where, okay, I'm not going to be a history professor, but I started feeling this call into being a pastor.

So we were there for a year. Then we decided to move back. Some friends of mine moved back to Atlanta, Gwinnett, Snowville. Some friends of mine were starting a church and they called and said, Hey, would you be part of it? So we were just, I mean, we were 20, I was 23. We're like, sure. But not knowing what, yeah, sure.

Yeah. Very that that's kind of like, you'll get a theme for, for me, at least is this when big things come up, I'm just kind of like a gut reaction. Sure. So that's, we just moved back. Sure. We'll get started. Sure.

I'll go to seminary. I went to visit a seminary, Mercer university in Atlanta. Showed up just to visit. I was like, I like this place. I'll go here. So I went to seminary for three years when we moved back to Atlanta, got a master's in divinity, and at the same time was working at this new church plant in Atlanta, and eventually went on staff full-time there as a pastor.

So you married a guy that was going to be a history professor. I did. I did. Would you have taken a blind date with a pastor? Oh, I think so. Yeah. Well, yeah, I would have. I would have. Our story is actually, as you're saying that about like, you're going to catch this theme, I'm like, oh, there kind of always has been this theme in our life of like, we're like, let's just go for it. Let's just see what happens. Like a year from our first date, we were married, living in a different state. I mean, yeah.

It's beautiful. So you're back in Atlanta. You're a pastor, you're a failed history professor, but popular pastor, going well. You're teaching, doing your thing, and y'all are going through life. And obviously faith is a huge part of your life and then I think you have a kid or something, right?

We do. Jim finished grad school. We both worked full-time for a year and then Kate was born in 2008, July of 2008. She's about to be 16 next month. So let's be honest, a lovely story, a love story, from people who were oddly right next to each other, but, and then you're starting off a wonderful

but unremarkable life, just doing your lives, like most of us, right? And you got a newborn baby at home, you're a pastor at this Greystone Church, I think, in Logansville, right? And everything is going good. And then I read somewhere, it was like, you kind of look at each other and say, is this what we're doing the rest of our lives? It's a, that you're, you're spot on in the sense of things were really good.

I mean, Melinda was a teacher, I was a pastor, very stable jobs, we were in this, I mean, we grew up in this community, now we're living in this community, we have lots of friends, life is very kind of simple and comfortable. Unremarkable is a great word, like things were good, but we both-

I don't mean that at all. No, no, no, I know exactly what you mean. I mean, peaceful, like- Peaceful, unremarkable, simple, but fulfilling life. Yeah, yeah, it was great. I mean, yeah, we had good community. We were doing meaningful stuff. It wasn't, you know, the work of a pastor

and the work of a teacher, we would both say are like two very noble callings. And so we both felt that. But around that same time, like 2007, 2008, we did start to feel this. I don't know if this is what the rest of our life is, but what is it? And we really didn't know.

We just like- How old were you? I was 27. So it was almost 30. Yeah, so there's three years between us almost. I think that's actually very normal. Yeah. I mean, you get through college, you get your degrees,

now you have a kid, now you're married, now you're living here, and then you wake up at 30 and you're like, hmm, what else? I think that's a normal feeling. But it's not like, let's destroy our lives and go do something crazy and start a commune. It's just, we're looking for something Yeah. And we had been other places. So we had gone to the Dominican Republic a lot, worked with an orphanage there. On mission trips? Yeah, as part of his job with

the church. And then we went to South Africa the year before our daughter Kate was born, so in 2007, right? Yeah. And so that kind of stirred something in it because the story there was like a pastor that kind of like had a life similar to ours who recognized there were a lot of tough things happening in his community. And so he and his wife, so I think that kind of stirred something else of like, what are we doing in our own community for people who are different than us? You know, how are we branching outside of something different than- Yeah, we had the conversation. When we came home from that 2007 trip to South Africa, we actually had the conversation should should we move to Africa? I mean, we did. We talked about it.

I'm glad nobody asked you because you would have said, sure. Why not? Sounds like that's kind of the deal there. Probably, honestly. Probably we would have been. Yeah, let's let let's go. But we came back and said, what does it look like for us to love our neighbors in our community where we are? And we had the conversation, well, we live in the suburbs, so we can't do that here. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first I hope you'll follow us on all your favorite social media channels where we share more powerful content from the army.

We're at army of normal folks on every channel. We'll be right back. When the Taliban banned music in Afghanistan, millions were plunged into silence. Radios were smashed, cassettes burned. You could be beaten or jailed or killed for breaking the rules. And yet, Afghans did it anyway. This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol. The danger they endured. They said my head should be cut off.

The joy they brought to the nation. You're free completely. No joy they brought to the nation. You're free completely. No one is there to destroy you. I'm John Legend. Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. or caregiver. All never thought it could happen to them, but with changes in routines, distractions, or a sleeping child, it can happen to anyone. Parked cars get hot fast and can be deadly. So get it in your head.

Check the backseat. A message from NHTSA and the Ad Council. Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt and we're the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts. It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting. Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more. We're back with season two of the podcast, which means more opportunities to glow up

and become a more responsible and better adult one life lesson at a time. And let me just tell you, this show is just as much for us as it is for you. So let's figure this stuff out together. This season, we're gonna talk about whether or not we're financially and emotionally ready for dog ownership. We're gonna figure out the benefits of a high yield savings account. And what exactly are the duties

of being a member of the wedding party? All that plus so much more. Let's learn about all of it and then some. Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception. I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all-new story of betrayal. Stacey thought she had the perfect husband.

Doctor, father, family man. It was the perfect cover for Justin Rutherford to hide behind. It led me into the house, and and I mean it was like a movie. He was sitting at our kitchen table. The cops were guarding him. Stacey learned how far her husband would go to save himself. I slept with a loaded gun next to my bed. You not just say I wish he was dead, you actually gave details and explained different scenarios on how to kill him.

He to me is scarier than Jeffrey Dahmer. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our iHeartRadio music festival. Presented by Capital One. Coming back to Las Vegas. your podcasts. What is, what is Gwinnett County? Am I pronouncing that right? What is Gwinnett County look like from a, what's a demographic? Yeah, sure. So a million people in Gwinnett County. It's big.

It's big. It's the second largest county in Georgia. So is that where Buckhead is? Close. It's not Buckhead. So we're just northeast of Buckhead, up the I-85 corridor going towards South Carolina. But right, I mean, there's five or six counties that make up Metro Atlanta. Gwinnett's the largest school system. So Atlanta, going to the largest school system. So when we grew up, it was 90% middle-class white families. Now it is majority minority community of a million people. The school system is majority Latino student, the second largest demographics, African-American, then Asian-American, then white kids. So that's all changed in the last 20 years. I mean,

the county is just booming, exploding as Atlanta has grown. This has become, it's affordable. I mean, affordable living. It's not anything fancy. It's very middle-class, you know, in most places. But we still felt this sense of like, there's just like a lot of people like us. This is 2008. So when we were in South Africa, we're like, well, we see people that are, you know, or we saw communities where people are struggling to make ends meet. And we're like, we don't come back home, and we didn't see that. Well, we didn't see it because we were just a little blind,

you know, like we just had blinders on, not anything that we were doing intentionally, but just how we grew up. You know, we grew up in where we knew people that looked like us. Listen, dude, within 10 miles of where you're sitting right now, there are people in abject poverty. And within 10 miles of where you're sitting right now,

there's million dollar homes lined road. And neither of them see each other and they're separated by 20 miles. Which is it's just a reality. Yeah, because you know where to go. Like, you know where people are who are like you, and you just kind of drive through other places. And we are clannish. Yeah, you just sort of choose not to notice.

I don't know. Somehow you just don't notice. We, I mean, that is the story of how how we got into this work is it's all connected. Melinda and I are our families are from the same place. We have we have ancestors buried in cemeteries near where we live. The dates are like 1820, 1840. They've been there forever. We are like the most normal white people from Georgia you've ever met. But we grew up only knowing people like us. There was a little bit of diversity in our schools, but we didn't have any friends that were different than us.

It wasn't until we were adults, traveling overseas, getting exposed to people who are very different than us that we started to kind of see a bigger picture. So when we come home, we still look around, we still got these blinders on, we're driving down the same roads, we're going to the same restaurants. Well, there's a mobile home park three miles from where we live that I, we

had both driven past for 30 years and never knew it was there. Like for both of us to go to the University of Georgia from where we grew up, we had to drive out as mobile home park. I mean, I would say a thousand times like we've driven past it and never even knew it was there until this one day in 2008 when we drove in. Why'd you drive in? So we were, so we were the, we were the typical, you know, white middle-class suburban church at Christmas time. Everyone said,

well, we should do a good deed. And so our church, my role at the church was some community partnerships. We reached out to a local food ministry and said, hey, how can we help some families at Christmas? And the food ministry came to us and said, hey, well, we're doing a Christmas gift sponsorship program for some kids in the community. And we signed up our small group from church, some other young families. We signed up, we said, Hey, well, we picked up this piece of paper. We'll sponsor this family. Didn't know anything. We just grabbed a piece of paper. Our small group came to Melinda and I and said, we pulled some money together. They nominated us to deliver the gifts. So one afternoon evening in December of 2008, we pulled out the sheet

and we look at the address. I don't even think that there was like we didn't plug in GPS and I'm not sure. I think we just I think we just pulled it up on a map and said oh we'll drive over here. We'll drive, we'll deliver the gifts. So we left our house and drove five minutes down the road and we turned into this mobile home park and both of us like, wow, we didn't, we never knew this was here. German past said a thousand times.

So we drive in and we both have the feeling that we're driving into another country. So we have been to Latin America a lot, and it felt like we were driving into Latin America. So we turn on the street and there, you know, smells of, you know, people grilling out music. You know, it felt like we were driving into Mexico. And it turns out, I mean, almost all of the residents in this neighborhood are first generation Mexican immigrants. So we drove to the address, knocked on the door, single-wide mobile home. We go in, parents don't speak English, kids running around, they

speak English, so we're talking to the kids, trying to kind of tell them what we're doing. They're translating. Yeah, they're translating. And we're feeling a little awkward. I mean a lot awkward probably. I'm like, this feels a little weird. I don't even remember what we talked about that first. We had Christmas gifts and we delivered them. More than anything, they felt very awkward. It felt really awkward to show up in a space with stuff to give people. But the relationship somehow mixed.

Like we enjoyed our- Missed? Mixed, like it was a good connection. Mixed. Yeah, it was a good connection with the people, like a relational connection. Like we enjoyed our time there translating with the mom and practicing our Spanish.

Yeah, we knew some Spanish from some short-term trips. So we were able to talk a little bit. Like we enjoyed our time there translating with the mom and practicing our Spanish. Yeah, we knew some Spanish from some short-term trips. So we were able to talk a little bit. Yeah, so it felt weird that we were bringing gifts into the house, you know, with everyone there, but there was a relational connection. And so when we left, we were like, why don't we come back and visit non-gift connected?

Like just as people having a conversation. It's my contention that there are a lot of well-intentioned, well-meaning people in the world that would like to do something good, but that awkwardness and candidly fear of going into a neighborhood like that and fear of the unknown, fear of what you see on TV, fear of societal preconceived notions, and then the awkwardness of language barriers or the awkwardness of not understanding a culture or whatever, prohibit people from even making the trip in the first place. Well-intentioned people don't want to do something well, but fear and awkwardness and all of that prohibit them from even going.

Do you agree with that? 100%. I think we lived it, but we just, I think that some of our experience, again, overseas kind of helped us push through some of that fear. But when we had the conversation, when we left that first visit of like, should we come back? Like is, should we, this is an uncomfortable feeling. But we just decided, I don't even know what our words were to each other when we left, but it was this, it was this equally agreed upon thing that 100% we're going to come back.

It's an interesting thing to look back on the story now. Cause now it's like, oh, we kind of see how the path was going. But back then it was just like the next step. Like it'd be weird if we didn't show back up, you know? Like we've had a great time visiting with this family. Like why would we not come back and ever see them again? That will be so weird.

And so then we came back and then it was maybe a couple of months later, several visits later that, you know, we can't, the family said to us like, hey, could you help with homework? You know, the mom said, I really want my kids to do well in school, but because of the language barrier,

I'm struggling to help them with their homework. And then on that visit, we kind of realized that a lot of the older siblings had had a hard time staying in school and, you know, things had been challenging, but the younger kids had all these big hopes and dreams for their lives. Like, I wanna be a teacher, I wanna be a nurse,

I wanna do all these things. And so you're kind of looking at these two things of like, this path hasn't worked out for your older siblings, you have these hopes and dreams. And so I was like, well, I know how to tutor kids, so we can- That's a yes. I'm a teacher. Yeah, like I can say yes to that.

So you also have the, yep, sounds good thing, just like Jim. Yeah. Let's go back before that, just a little bit. I don't know where I read it or saw it and I can't find it in my notes. So I'm just gonna wing it and let you tell me, it was toxic philanthropy. Is that the term you used? So I'm just gonna wing it and let you tell me,

it was toxic philanthropy. Is that the term you used? What is the term? So the toxic charity. Toxic charity, sorry. Yeah. Tell me what you mean when you say toxic charity. Yeah, so in 2008, we didn't know what it was.

The next few years we learned this phrase. It's actually from a book written by a guy in Atlanta named Bob Lupton, wrote a book called Toxic Charity. He spent nearly 40 years living in inner city Atlanta, working alongside his neighbors, helping to just bring about change in the community. And he learned what Toxic Charity was by experience. And then he wrote a book and shared it with others. And essentially-

What's the name of the book? Toxic Charity. Oh, that's the name of the book. That's the name of the book. What's the gentleman's name? Bob Lupton. Bob? L-U-P-T-O name? Bob Lupton. Bob Lupton. So Toxic Charity, the idea is actually this idea of delivering Christmas presents

to kids because it makes you feel good, but it is not helpful. So doing essentially Toxic Charity is the idea of doing things, the person who is the, on the giving end, doing things that make them feel good, that have no real benefit for the person on the receiving end. So doing things without asking, what do you actually need? Making assumptions of what people need. So, you know, Christians across the world historically have done this badly. And so we're trying to be part of a... This is 2008, right? So now the three of us are interconnected.

When I started coaching at Manassas in 2007, and many of our listeners have heard the story, you have not, so I'm gonna go through it quickly. But I want you to know, it ended up on a billboard in Times Square and I ended up on the, what was that girl's name show? Oh, in Clarkson. I was on the Kelly Clarkson show about this very thing. My terminology is different because my terminology comes straight out of the hood. And it was halfway through my first season, out this very thing. My terminology is different because my terminology comes straight out of the hood.

And it was halfway through my first season, we were three wins and three losses. Now understand, I think that's average, but the school's previous 10 years record was four wins and 95 losses. They're terrible. So your first season when you're three and three, pretty good by comparison.

When I first got to Manassas, I really started understanding that it was time to teach a lot of stuff other than football. Basic tenets and fundamentals of how to carry your life longer after the days of the game is over. So, we were teaching character, commitment, integrity, teamwork, value of hard work, the dignity of being on time, these types of things. And halfway through the season, we're three and three.

And while the whole football team was buying in the football stuff, the minute practice or game were over, they're back in the streets, engaged in the same kind of destructive behavior that got them metaphorically to 4.95 in life. The other half of the team was buying in. Well, I was frustrated, so I went to my guy, every coach has a guy.

And I said, hey man, what do I gotta do to get that half the team to buy into the important stuff like your half the team? Y'all are all into the football, but only half of you are into the important stuff. And he was the guy that had a lot of conversations with early, the real chats, you know, that really open your mind and help you understand

a culture that you don't know, kind of like the mobile home park that's three minutes from your house, it's down a road that you've never seen, even though you've passed it for 20 years. That culture that I also had driven past before I started coaching in it. And I said, what do I gotta do to get that half team

to buy into the important stuff like your half the team? And he said, I'll coach just keep doing what you're doing dismissively. You have children, you know the tone. When they don't wanna talk to you. And I'm like, no man, real talk. And he said, I don't want to hurt your feelings. And I said, real talk.

He said, coach, you're trying to figure out if you're a Turkey person or not. And I said, I don't want to hurt your feelings. And I said, real talk. He said, coach, you're trying to figure out if you're a turkey person or not. And I said, what? And he said, coach, every Thanksgiving and Christmas, people roll into our neighborhoods and they give us hams and gifts and turkeys. And we take them because we ain't got none. But then they leave and we never see them again.

Makes you wonder if they're doing that because they really care about us or they're doing that to make themselves feel good. And he looked me dead in the eyes and he said, coach, really man, what the hell are you doing here? It was one of the more defining moments of my life. I was there every single day. I was coaching every day.

I went back every single day. I was coaching every day. I went back every single day. I was there taking time away from Lisa and the children. I was spending my money there. I was doing everything I could. And still there's a segment of these kids that weren't buying into the important stuff because they weren't buying into me. And it's not, you know,

I think if you serve at soup kitchens or whatever, it's a beautiful thing. The story is not about giving gifts at Christmas. It's about what's your motivation? What are you motivated by? Are you motivated by the simple edification of someone who's not as blessed as you? Or are you motivated by making yourself feel good and the way it elevates you among your own peers who see you doing something nice for these poor folks down here and I Really realize then the consistency And the proper motivations

giving credit where credits do and not taking credit for things that are going well, but giving credit to the people who are doing the work to actually improve their lives and all of those things was the only way you were ever really going to make any difference or change. I tell you this story because I never knew the word toxic charity before I read this thing this weekend about you guys.

But when I read it, I said, that is turkey people. That is the turkey person story. So when did I eat toxic charity and turkey person? When did that reality hit your mind and your heart when you said, oh my gosh, we're doing this all wrong? I know when it hit me, I just told you. Sophia. Yeah, so, yeah, and I'll let Melinda show this. And by the way, is that not crazy?

No, no, no. That happened to me in 2007, one year before you. It was 2007. Listen, when you're sharing that story, I'm getting choked up because it is almost exactly the same. We'll be right back. When the Taliban banned music in Afghanistan, millions were plunged into silence.

Radios were smashed, cassettes burned. You could be beaten or jailed or killed for breaking the rules. And yet, Afghans did it anyway. This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol. The danger they endured. They said my head should be cut off. The joy they brought to the nation.

You're free completely. No one is there to destroy you. I'm John Legend. Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Gets in your head, right? Good. Because every year, dozens of children are forgotten in the backseat of a car by a parent or caregiver. Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt, and we're the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.

It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting. Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more. Here's a clip from an upcoming episode featuring the weekly home checks, Keyshawn Lane, that you won't want to miss. A common mistake that a lot of people do, they use fabric softener when it's not so great

for your clothes. Should we never be using fabric softener? No, you should not ever be using fabric softener. It leaves a deposit on our clothes, which is also left in the machine, and it also makes the clothes highly flammable. Wait, what? It leaves a deposit on our clothes, which is also left in the machine. And it also makes the clothes highly flammable. Wait, what?

Yes. What you want to do instead is just use a quarter cup of vinegar. And that'll make them softer? That'll make them softer. And if you wanted some kind of scent, you can use essential oils. Wow, wow, wow. Catch new episodes of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult every other Tuesday on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Grown Up Stuff. Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception. I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all new story of betrayal. Stacey thought she had the perfect husband, doctor, father, family man. It was the perfect cover for Justin Rutherford

to hide behind. He led me into the house, and I mean, it was like a movie. He was sitting at our kitchen table. The cops were guarding him. Stacey learned how far her husband would go to save himself. I slept with a loaded gun next to my bed. You not just say I wish he was dead.

He actually gave details and explained different scenarios on how to kill him. He to me is scarier than Jeffrey Dahmer. Jeffrey Dahmer. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our iHeartRadio Music Festival, preceded by Capital One. Coming back to Las Vegas. September 20th and 21st. Streaming live only on Hulu. Big Sean.

Camila Cabello. Doja Cat. Gwen Stefani. Hozier. Keith Urban. New only on Hulu. Don't miss Big Sean, Camila Cabello, Doja Cat, Gwen Stefani, Hozier, Keith Urban, New Kids on the Block, Paramore, Shaboosie, The Black Crows, Thomas Rhett, Victoria Monet, and more. Get tickets to our 2024 iHeartRadio Music Festival presented by Capitol they sell out at AXS.com. The turkey people is toxic charity. I mean, that's exactly we were like we were our first interaction was through this Christmas gift. And I, you know, it's hard to what our motivations were at the moment, like, but recognizing that the people on the receiving end of those

turkeys or those Christmas gifts can feel it. They know exactly what it is. This kid knew exactly and his words. Yeah. His words were prophetic. I mean, the sense of like, so in 2009, the same thing happened to us that Melinda Sher because she was the, she was the actual participant of the billboard. All right. I want to show them. Are you tearing up? Well to hear your story because it is so similar and that moment is so profound and so important. And it's so hard when you kind of turn a mirror on the junk in your own life,

you know, you recognize like, oh man, I was doing some things for the wrong reason because it felt good to me, but not necessarily. It makes you feel like such a hypocrite, doesn't it? It does, but then there's such beauty on, you have to go through that to be able to do the beautiful work, but for us, we had been teardown set up doing homework help,

and it was a chaotic, crazy thing. I'm sorry, let me connect you to 2009. I just, chronologically. So mom says, can you help with homework? You say yes. So for the next period, little period of time, you're actually going in, giving your time and helping her children with homework because you see their bright eyes and dreams and you don't want them to end up like the older kids who've now dropped out of school

and are kind of staring at life with a blank stare. So that's what you're doing. We're doing that. And so what's happening is their family gets really excited about the homework help. And so they are telling other families in the neighborhood, there are these people who are coming to help with homework. So people are bringing their kids every week

for homework help. I had a lot of teacher friends who had just had babies who were staying home. So I'm just randomly calling my friends, people who are retired, anybody who will come. So each week, we don't know how many volunteers are coming, and we don't know how many kids are coming because there really wasn't. We just jumped like we just you really have an organization. Just people trying to help people showing up. And so it was just incredibly chaotic, but we're building some really neat relationships with some families and like a core group of girls who were like fifth and sixth grade

and kind of gotten to know. And so Sophia is one of those girls. And so one day we done homework and I was kind of walking the girls home and she looked at me and she said, Mr. Melinda, when are you leaving? And I'm like, like today, like what do you mean? And she said, no, no, no, that's what churches do. They come, they stay for a little while, they leave and we never see them again. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Say that again. This is everybody listening to us needs to hear what you just said again.

Yeah. It is profound. Sophia has proven to be such a prophetic person over the years in the work that we do. Like her view of the neighborhood is so clear and simple. And, but anyway, she said, when are you leaving? When are you? She looked you and said, hey, thanks for the homework, help when are you out?

Yeah. Basically, when are you gonna bolt? Right, because we're just doing this setup, you know, in the office for the homework, help. When are you out? Yeah. Basically, when are you gonna bolt? Right, because we're just doing this setup in the office of the neighborhood, whatever. And so I'm totally confused by the question. So she says, when are you leaving? That's what churches do. They come, they stay for a while.

They leave, we never see them again. That's what churches do. That's what churches do. Specifically. Her life experience had shown her that white people, Christians from churches, come in and they're the turkey people. So this is her way of saying, are you just coming to do the thing to make you feel good?

Yeah. When are you leaving? And the fascinating thing now- How long had you been there to that point? We'd probably known her six months, two years. Yeah, so, okay. I mean, it's reasonable, but we'd gotten to know her past just a one time thing. So she just kind of, I guess, want to know how invested she should be. And the question totally shocked me. I was not expecting it. We put, there was no strategic plan.

I said, I'm going to be here until you graduate. Like that was my quick- Well, there's a gemism. Yeah. Sounds good. I'll be here until you graduate. And you know what's fascinating now thinking about? Well, there's a jimism. Yeah, sounds good. I'll be here till you graduate. It's still an important part of our life. But you know, she was fifth grade when she makes this really profound statement. She was fifth grade when she said that to you? Because when I think

back, we had a baby at home, so she seemed very old. You know, like she seemed like an adult, but she was fifth, sixth grade, saying such a profound- When she said, well, that's what churches do, do you remember your immediate, I'm talking about right then, your immediate- I've never been punched, but if I had to predict what it would feel like if someone punched me, that was like, took the wind out of me. That's exactly how I felt

when I heard the turkey push thing. I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah, it shifts your brain. And that same story has played out in every neighborhood where we work. At some point in time, there is a kid who shows up to the person in charge there and says, like, how long is this going to last for? It's because inconsistency is so common. inconsistency is so common. Inconsistency is uncommon. And obviously, until you prove your consistency, you're just more noise. And that is unfortunately the reality, but that is not our fault. That is the conditions created by folks who live in the world we're talking about serving. And people have to understand that you are going to be met with an air of skepticism

because that's what everybody else has always shown this community. Which is something we have to drop our egos, drop our sensibilities at the door and look at it for what it really is and understand you are up against that at the beginning. So for all our listeners, if you go to Army and Normal Folks website,

I think this picture is still on the top of it. But this past Thanksgiving, this was in Times Square. Wow, I love that. That is cool. That is really great. Yeah. I love it. That is cool. That is really great. Yeah. I love it. Talking about your story, and I didn't even know it right now, which I absolutely love. For everybody listening, I just showed them a picture of the billboard that Alex had put up in Times Square that simply says, don't be a turkey person.

That was up there this Thanksgiving. Wow, we are real connected. We really are connected in terms of our belief set. So you said, well, until you graduate, so now you're stuck. Yeah, so I go home. Ironically enough, I promised the kids that were coming into Manassas

as I was trying to get them to quit leaving their neighborhood and go to other schools. I was trying to get them to come and stay at their neighborhood school, Manassas, as ninth graders to build this football team. And I promised them, they came to Manassas in ninth grade. I didn't know how long I'd coach at Manassas, but I swore to them,

I would coach them through their graduation, oddly enough. So that was also my barometer, was their graduation, which I did. Crazy, the parallels that exist here. So now you're in. Yeah, and I go home that night and tell Jim, I just committed us. Like this is long haul.

Like, we are here minimum until Sophia graduates. So we've got six years. So we're OK with that. Like, we never talked about how long we were going to stay, but it's just sort of each little step seemed to make sense. Yeah, our personalities are, you know, maybe the time we didn't realize this. We've learned being married for 21 years, our personalities are different and that's good in a lot of ways.

And so when Melinda comes home and says, I just committed us forever, I mean, really my response is awesome, like let's do it. You know, like, no, I didn't have any big, like I am this just, okay, gut reaction. Our story over and over goes, Melinda is the one that gets this message, whether it be from Sophia.

I mean, we believe that it's, I mean, God speaking in different ways through people, but Melinda is the one that hears this thing, and then she comes to me and says, should we do it? And I'm always just like, yeah, let's do it. So what does do it look like? Yeah, so right around that same time, when, when Sophia asked this profound question to Melinda,

we were doing a weekly homework program in the community office. So it's a community of 220 mobile homes, you know, a couple hundred kids in the neighborhood. We were meeting with 40 or 50 a week. This is our kind of our good deed we thought. Melinda talks to Sophia. We have this profound thing right around the same time a shooting happens in one of the homes in this community.

We had just started. So the shooting happened on a Sunday, Sunday night. That Sunday morning was the first time I stood up in front of our church and invited people to come with us. So I say, Hey, come with us and show up, do some homework. Really simple. That night there's a shooting. So then it was on the news.

So everybody in church that was considered was like, yeah, well, oh my God, I'm making a shot. I'm not going. 100%. And we had the same conversation. We looked at each other and said, man, we just invited people come in this neighborhood and there's a shooting. And we sat with our small group from church that week and said, should we even go back?

It wasn't, I mean, it really wasn't a question. It was more of a rhetorical question of like, how do we go back? But what are we into here? This is different than what we understood, really. That's right. Hearing our story, neither one of us grew up in a place where shootings happen. But three miles down the road is a neighborhood where a shooting happened. It was a drug deal. So in the middle of the night, some drug dealers came in and shot up a trailer full of other drug dealers. And so we we hear about it on the news.

We show up again for homework that week. And the kids are telling us about it. Kids living next door like, hey, I heard the bullets. Well, I mean, I mean, our mind is just kind of blown and we're scared. But we do very unqualified, like we feel completely unqualified. We are we are the most I mean, you can see it. We are the most like suburban, like white people you've ever met.

Like we- Are you cognizant of the trauma for these kids? I think so. I think, I mean, to an extent that we could empathize, like hearing from their mouths. Hey, there is this there's children are not supposed to say, hey, our bullets. They're just not. And we have our own little baby at home and we're like, Oh, my gosh. What if that was her or us or, you know, friends that we have?

I mean, it so does you. You hear it. I think the thing that struck me that when the kids told the story was that they knew what to do. You know the story was that they knew what to do. You know, like it happened. They knew what to do when shots. They knew what to do when they heard the shots. They knew to roll onto the floor, you know.

And I think that, that is the thing that impacted me. That's really interesting. Like they knew what to do. Some months ago, I interviewed a guy named Arshay Cooper and I drop his name a lot in conversations when these things come up. You're crying. Why?

I think it's interesting to always go back and think about, you know, like in the moment we were just busy and I think the longer I've done this work, reflecting on it feels different now. You know, in the moment of doing it, you're just like, we gotta show up. There are kids coming for homework. I think I'm thankful that we didn't quit back then. I think that's a feeling that I have

when I go back and remember those hard moments or you ask about the trauma. Well, we talked about we talked about quitting. I mean, people people told us we should quit. Yeah, it's too dangerous. What what are you doing? And frankly, it became those people those people to use the phrase and you can delete this out if you want to.

But to use the phrase, they these people are illegal immigrants. They are they're undocumented. Why would I? I mean, I don't think you would. But I mean, like if you were when we're not political people, like but at the time we didn't like there was a large group of people that were like, do not help these people because they're illegal. And we're like, what in the world are you talking about? This is all happening at the same time. Shooting, people pushing, giving us pushback.

These are illegal immigrants. Like they shouldn't even be here. Like why should you help these kids? And, and, and, and, and Melinda's hearing from Sophia and all these things are happening. Then we show up in the neighborhood and the, and the property manager, the week after the shooting, looks at me and says, Hey, do you want the trailer where the shooting happened? And I just said, sure. And that concludes part one of my conversation with Jim and Melinda Hollinsworth.

And guys, you don't want to miss part two that's now available to listen to, as you will hear the absolutely crazy story of Jim getting the trailer and so much more. Together guys, we can change the country, but it starts with you. I'll see you in part 2. We all know what that music means. It's time for the Olympics in Paris. I'm Matt Rogers and I'm Bo and Yang. And we're doing an Olympics podcast? Uh, yeah. We're hosting the Two Guys Five Rings podcast. Watch every moment of the 2024 Paris Olympics beginning July 26th on NBC and Peacock. And for the first time, you can stream the 2024 Paris games

on the iHeartRadio app. And listen to two guys five rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol The joy they brought to the nation you're free completely No one is there to destroy you the danger they endured they said my head should be cut off

I'm John legend listen to Afghan star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception. I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all new story of betrayal. Justin Rutherford. Doctor, father, family man, it was the perfect cover to hide behind.

Detective Weaver said, I'm sure you know why we're here. I was like, what in the world is going on? Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our iHeartRadio music festival. Presented by Capital One. Coming back to Las Vegas

Tonight September 20th and 21st on one stage streaming live only on Hulu a weekend full of superstar performances Never seen before collaboration at once in a lifetime artist moments You'll have to see to believe tickets are on sale now at AXS.com Don't miss Big Sean Camila Cabello, Doja Cat, Gwen Stefani, Hoseier, Keith Urban, New Kids on the Block, Paramore, Shaboosie, The Black Crows, Thomas Red Red, Victoria Monet, and more. Don't miss your chance to get tickets to our 2024 iHeart Radio Music Festival, presented by Capital One right now, before they sell out.

At AXS.com. That's AXS.com. Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt, and we're the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts. It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting. Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more. Let's learn about all of it and then some.

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