An Army of Normal Folks - Kagan Coughlin: Coding in Rural Mississippi (Pt 1)

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

Kagan’s Base Camp Coding Academy trains high school graduates in rural Mississippi to become software developers in 12 months, and it’s 100% free to them! Their over 100 graduates have gone on to work for major corporations such as FedEx, Cspire, and CoreLogic.  They’re helping solve the opportunity deficit in rural America, while at the same time solving a talent deficit for companies not based in major tech hubs like Silicon Valley. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I have this deeply ingrained belief that everyone should get to do whatever they want to, if they're willing to do the work. And I've always thought that. And Mississippi kind of broke me of that opinion and made it clear that no, that's just being able to feel like you're somewhere near the bottom and looking up and feeling like it's just a climb is a privilege. Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur.

And I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis. And the last part, unintentionally led to an Oscar for the film about our team. It's called undefeated. I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits talking big words that nobody understands on CNN and Fox, but rather, by an army of normal folks, us, just you and me deciding, hey, I can help. That's what Kagan Kaufflin, the voice we just heard, is done. Kagan and his wife, Alexey, have been huge catalyst to revitalizing the once declining small town of Water Valley, Mississippi, incidentally where my grandfather was from. In terms of its buildings, its

businesses, and most of all, offering new paths to achieving the American dream. In a place that it was really hard to see happening, Kagan's base camp coding academy trains high school graduates to become software developers in 12 months and is 100% free to them. And there are over 100 graduates have gone on to work for major corporations such as FedEx, CSPIRE and FNC.

It's an amazing story developing software developers in rural Mississippi. I can't wait for you to meet Kagan right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. Where am I? Why, this is the Pendleton.

All residents, please return to your habitations. Light stuff on your feet. You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead to me. Am I under arrest? We don't like to use that word. Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time. So this is a prison then? No, it's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask, or are you going to do that?

Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our first call is Mary in Lexington, Kentucky. Mary, welcome to the middle. Hello, and thanks for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country heading into the 2024 election, you have to get away from the extremes and listen to the middle. Hi, my name is Venkade, I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia.

On the new podcast, The Middle with Jeremy Hobson, I'm live every week, taking your calls and focusing on Americans in the middle middle who are so important politically but are often ignored by the media. I did a lifetime democratic voter however I was raised by moderate Republicans from Michigan. Creating space for a civil conversation about the most contentious issues we face from climate change to artificial intelligence from abortion rights to gun rights. I consider myself to be conservative, cis-glee, but politically independent.

Listen to the middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join former 90210 star Brian Austin Greene, along with dancing with the star's fan favorite Sharna Burgess, and Hollywood air-turned-life coach Randy Spelling, as they navigate life, love, and the quest for happiness, in the new podcast, Oldish. Have I finally found the secret to happiness and the key to a successful relationship? Let's hope so, because most of that is with me. Brian, a father of five, who's endured a public divorce and a string of unhealthy relationships, and Sharna, a self-proclaimed serial monogamous, have been in a whirlwind romance since meeting

in 2020. Now they'll tackle the challenges of blended family life while dealing with relentless paparazzi. With the help of their friend Randy, they share their life lessons, pondering the meaning of it all in the world of the Oldish. And even though this Hollywood couple finally found each other, they don't have all the answers. Oh, no, no second! Well, that's where I come in.

I'm prepared to guide you or listeners through some of life's funniest, awkward, or difficult moments. Listen to Oldish on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Tell me about your parents in Vermont. My parents in Vermont. Yeah, tell me about your family. My family. So, my father is a military brat.

Wow. He was father passed away at a tragically early age. So my father was without a father when he was five. And when my grandfather passed the army. The army, okay. So my grandfather was a lieutenant colonel. He was the battalion commander for heavy armored battalion, something.

Yeah. I've limited knowledge that wasn't a lot of talking about my grandfather. Sure. Well, he died when you were... When my father was five. But my grandmother picked up her three or four twins, my father, Kitty and Maria, her five children. Wow. And Mood Vermont took the life insurance money and scraped together whatever she could and Mood Vermont bought a farm. So what kind of farm like like like like a dairy farm in the wild? No kidding. Yeah. Your grandmother.

My grandmother. Well, there's a whole story about her. The story. What a tough woman grabs up five kids all in that age and goes to Vermont and starts to dairy farm. And she, there's a lot of stories about her. She wrote some books about that experience. No kidding. The, what is it? The Women's Home Journal did a serial on her. My father taught us.

That's so cool. Having photographers from Life magazine living in the house for periods of time. But that turned my father into a Vermont Garnakid, who grew up working on the farm, working in his stepfather's cabinet shop. No kidding. And then my mother grew up in Switzerland. Is she Swiss? She's Swiss. But Swiss born. Swiss born. Came to the States at 19. I believe you know, as we're talking about a Swiss miss and a dairy farmer

meeting up. Do you realize this is the story of your family? That's kind of cool, actually. It's my parents are a strange eclectic. Yeah, I mean, yeah. So my my father was just a Vermont farm boy and the story is he Hiked there's one mountain in Vermont a Scottney mountain where everybody hikes once a year and He hiked at the top of the mountain and there was this Swiss Opaire playing a guitar Oh, come on and all the Vermont farm boys It was like feeding frenzy of oh my word fresh. That is not your mother. That's my mother

That is not on your mother. That's my mother. That is so crazy. And they got married. I mean, this is like the sound of music. I could imagine the hills and all that. They got married at sunrise by themselves. I think maybe my father's parents were there in jeans. Like they're just just... Wow.

And then my father, he worked as a carpenter. He worked in a factory as an electrician. Blue color guy. Blue color guy. We spent as much time on picket lines as we did knowing that he was in the factory working. Picket lines. For the union.

For the union. He finished out his career in that area working for United Electrical 218 as a chief steward for the union. For the union. He finished out his career in that area working for United Electrical 218 as a chief steward for the union. No kidding. And we spent plenty of time. That's also a very Vermont story. Oh yeah. And an impressionable age holding signs on picket lines, wondering if it was okay to yell scab like all the grownups around us. People what was your unassuming Swiss because all Swiss are unassuming mother doing when y'all were on the picket line? So she wasn't on the picket line.

That's because she Swiss. They don't do those things. They're very neutral, you know, but I would I've heard. But the unassuming Swiss, I think stay home. And my mother was not that. It wasn't that far. But she, for years, she was a homemaker. She taught most of her education that she received in

Switzerland, didn't translate. And she's also active in her church. You know, most of my memories of what did we do? I would find myself in very old folks' homes. We were delivering groceries and we did not have much to spare. But. How many is we, how many siblings?

I'm one of four. One of four, so. So, number three or four? We've got blue collar, dairy farmer, dad, who worked in stepdads, cabinet shop, learned to work with his hands and became a union guy met the swissopair on the side of the mountain with a guitar, a sound of music, had four kids, grew up in Vermont, and active in their church. Yes. That is a beautiful American normal story. That's a lovely yes.

At 64,000 feet. That's precisely what we all have weird stuff that goes on in our families. But the point is you weren't born into a trust fund. You were not a guy who was on the extraordinary side of the world. You're just an ordinary guy that came from an ordinary blue color hard working loving family. Yeah, that and part of that translates into a chip on your shoulder for some period of time in your life and I managed to talk about that. So when you when you grew up in a hard working family where things are not handed and yet you you live in a community where there are other folks that have a different economic experience and where there are other folks that have a different economic experience. And a lot of that exposure to those folks grows in school if you start, if you're serious

about your studies. And most of your classmates over time, if you're pushing in that direction, tend to have more fluids. More fluids, more support in their their own families that care about academics, which often translate directly to more fluids. And so if you are leaving school to go to your after school job and you liked having the things that everybody you went to school with had, but if you wanted them, you were going to pay for them yourself. You have a different life than your friends and classmates. So, Kagan, my father left home when I was four.

My mother was married to a worse than number of times. And the first time I ever mowed my own grass was the house that I bought when my second child was born because I grew up in apartments. Yet I went to pretty affluent schools because that was education at least mattered. But when I tell you I really identify with what you're saying, I completely get it. It sucked to have to work for three summers to buy a white Caprice Classic

then when you pulled the floorboard back, you could see the road beneath your feet and my friends nicknamed my car the road commode because it was white with white patent leather interiors or white on white. And it was a piece of crap. And then I had friends drive around brand new 280ZXs. So I get it, I completely get it, but I also believe and I mentioned it and know if you

believe this that that that chip if you don't let it consume you can be an incredible driver for your own life. Yes. The, as a driver, you can have an unhealthy impact. Certainly. So you can be looking just for those things. And, you know, when I was younger, it was, I need the North Face backpack. Yeah, right.

Which, for some reason, costs $100. And my parents would never, a million years consider mine were bass Wegeons Do you even remember those the shoes? Yeah, yeah the people from not even wear those things. They were wearing like I knew it exists stuff and anyway Bass wegeons back in the day penny loafers that you actually put the penny in the little slot on the tongue Well, they were like back in the early 80s. They were like

80 bucks. I mean, they were high back then. They're high now, but I mean, really expensive. And they had these knockoffs that were shaped like it, but the tongue instead of being that smooth rounded was actually jagged edge and the little buckles on the side instead of being that smooth rounded, was actually jagged-edged, and the little buckles on the side, instead of being nice and smooth and tightly-roven, were like walnuts on the side of your shoes, and instead of being that cool, rich brown color, they were almost purple, and I had to wear those damn things.

And I knew people were looking at my knockoff bass weachens, but you talk about the North Face backpack, my home was bass weachens. And today is a 53 year old man who has had some modicum successes life. I'm still pissed off at where those she's it's amazing impact. And you know that you thought everybody noticed it, but he was in your own head more than anybody else. It's probably true. thought everybody noticed it, but it was in your own head more than anybody else. That's probably true. Well, the point is, you're an average dude from an average family, right?

And so you go to college, you start chasing the dream in DC, right? That's precisely what I was doing. I left college, had a great education, which equipped me for not really a career, well-educated, not well-trained. Yeah, well, that's pretty much every college graduate as far as I'm concerned. But I landed a position through the kindness of some executives at Fannie Mae, working for Fannie Mae, an origin industry, well-compens, 20 early 20s, making more than my parents had ever made, questioning my life choices as I sat in a cubicle.

If you have that economic chip on your shoulder, DC is terrible because you walk in and you're surrounded by nice things, great history, everything is out of your reach. And I remember I got my full-time position offer from Vanny May The benefits package was amazing the number that I would be taking home was amazing Make him a woman your dad ever do. Oh, yeah, and I went to the real estate office. I was like, oh my word

I'm gonna buy something and I had a pre-approval letter for 300 and something thousand dollars. You should be able to buy anything I said show me the list of everything that I can afford. I'm gonna pick what I'm gonna buy. And in DC and all the surrounding areas, and this was in the early 2000s, there were two things that I could afford for 300 something thousand dollars. And it was a one bedroom needed to be gutted studio thing

in Connecticut Avenue and a tenth of an acre with a literal shack on it, without plumbing somewhere out on the edge of Tacoma Park or Silver Spring. Again, if you have that financial chip on your shoulder, money should never get in your way. So I found workarounds. I lived in DC for years paying no rent. Because when first presented with you can't afford anything and rental rates are ludicrously high and my parents had a couple rental properties and That to me made economic sense that Yes, I spent a lot of my teenage years around my jobs fixing apartments for my parents

That had been ruined by tenants. Which will learn later as coming to handy? Yes. But I literally, this is the beginning of Craigslist long before social media or anything like that. And I sat down one evening and wrote an advertisement for myself saying, person looking to live somewhere close to work. And I can't afford rent, but I'm very handy capable. So give me your place to live in for free and I'll fix it while I'm there. Correct. And when I told Alexi that I had done that, she thought I was going to get murdered. But I had a surprising number of folks reach out.

And I ended up living with someone who, to this day, is a close friend, who had just moved back to DC into a house that her mother had left her. And I spent years living in the basement and fixing it up after hours. and I spent years living in the basement and fixing it up after hours. And now, a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first, I really hope you'll consider signing up to join the Army at NormalFolks.us.

Guys, I really do believe that this Army can change the country. By signing up, you'll also receive our weekly newsletter that has short episode summaries in case you prefer reading about army members or celebrating each week, as well as fun and exciting updates about our movement. Think about it, we'll be right back. What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here?

13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. Where am I? Why, this is the Pendleton. All residents, please return to your habitation lights up on your feet You're new here, so I'll say it once No talking starring Natalie Morales of parks and recreation and dead to me am I under arrest?

We know I can use that word can I leave of my own free will not at this time? So this is a prison. No, it's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask for you going to do that? Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts over ever you get your podcasts.

Our first call is Mary in Lexington, Kentucky. Mary, welcome to the middle. Hello, and thanks for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country heading into the 2024 election, you have to get away from the extremes and listen to the middle. Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia. On the new podcast, the middle with Jeremy Hobson, I'm live every week, taking your calls,

and focusing on Americans in the middle, who are so important politically, but are often ignored by the media. I did a lifetime democratic voter, however I was raised by moderate Republicans from Michigan. Creating space for a civil conversation about the most contentious issues we face. From climate change to artificial intelligence, from abortion rights to gun rights. I consider myself to be conservative, physically, but politically independent.

Listen to the Middle of Jeremy Hobson on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mo'Raca, and I'm excited to announce season 4 of my podcast, Mo Bituaries. I've got a whole new bunch of stories to share with you about the most fascinating people and things who are no longer with us. From famous figures who died on the very same day. To the things I wish would die, like buffets. People actually take little tastes along the way with their fingers. Oh, they do.

Oh, no, I'm so sorry. Do you need a minute? This is the only interview where I've needed a spit bucket. I'm so sorry. We'll tell you about the singer who helped define cool. And the sports world's very first superstar. To call Jim Thorpe the greatest athlete in American history is not a stretch because no athlete before his sinks is done what he did.

Listen to Mobituaries with Moroca on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now let's continue with Kagan and how a company from Oxford, Mississippi, wooed him out of Washington, D.C. FNC is a leading software provider for the real estate industry and the wooing bats incredible leaders interested Kagan. He had never been wooed before. Going back to their more country routes and being able to forward more also played a role in Kagan and Alexi ultimately settled down in the nearby town of Water Valley, population 3,700, almost like from Hehal, Salute.

Let's just talk about Water Valley. My grandfather's from Water Valley. Really? I played baseball and basketball at Ole Miss in the 30s. And he's passed long years ago, but was from water valley. And so I was in water valley when I was 12-year-old with him one day to visit a cemetery. And I think it was, he was putting flowers on somebody's grave. I was a kid, I don't remember. But I will tell you, on that visit, when I was 12 years old,

and then the next time I came back to Water Valley, when I was a senior in college, not much had changed in Water Valley, Mississippi. My wife had left her she her first position in DC, was with the journal of public health. And she left that and came to Mississippi with me and found herself not an Oxford, but in water valley. One block off of a main street that was generously 60% vacant, possibly more than that. Yeah, that's, possibly more than that.

Yeah, that's what I remember of it. Yep. And so she is the person. That's what I remember of it for three decades of experience of it. There, so this, the economic decline of this community is, it's quite a story between in the 40s, the railroad used to have,

this used to have the only turntable between New Orleans and Chicago. The only place in a locomotive could be reversed. And they had machine shops back here, which were the biggest in the region. And in the 40s, the railroad physically ripped that turntable out and moved it to Jackson, Tennessee. And at the same time, within a year or two, most of, not most, but 40, roughly 40% of the farmland in the county was taken by the federal government for Inodil Lake and Grenadil Lake. No, kids. So the industry left. And then the agriculture farming in both countries. And this building that we're sitting in right

now was the state's attempt to save the town because there was no purpose left. There was no there was nothing left there. And so the state built this factory building we're sitting in and gave it to the city and they contracted with rice sticks sowing factory. I'm not sure exactly what they made. Which all went to Asia in the 80s. 90s. Late 80s, early 90s, did it? Well, when did Asia? So this was the economic heartbeat, this building sustained this community when everything else was textiles. Textiles. Yeah. Yeah, well, all that's gone. So until the early 90s, and when this closed in the 90s

nothing ever came back into this building. It was gonna come back. Right. So you tell the story of this community and it's just a kick and economic kick and economic kick. Just got hired. And so by the time we arrived, the main street

we had our lumber yard, we had our hardware store, we had a bank and we had our Lumriard, we had our hardware store, we had a bank, and we had a drug store, which is probably as much a reason that we live here as anything else, because it was a drug store with a soda fountain run by Mr. Benny Turnage. Imagine an old Rex Hall or something like that. Yes, but think of the consummate white hair and tall, skinny man with a bow tie. And did the soda fountain still do milkshakes and things? Just like it's a wonderful life.

The first time we rolled into this town, we pulled over in front of one of the few storefronts that had life in it. We went inside this gentleman who's the pharmacist, made us milkshakes. In the old, you know, you stick the metal cover. Please tell him, it's still there. Oh, it's still there. And now, his grandson is the person who is a fifth or sixth generation turnage who will make you your milkshake today.

Is it the little milkshake and a good? Yeah. Though I'm a chocolate milkshake. Oh, I've got to have the little milkshake. But that, so that gentleman in a bow tie, Mr. Binnie turnage in a bow tie. Oh, in a last made us our milkshakes, talk to us. Like we were family friends, gave us hugs before we left and gave us these little yellow cards that he carries with him at all times.

That's a smile. God loves you and so do I. That if you go around this community, you see them on dashboards, you see them at every checkout register and every business. And we walked out and stood on the sidewalk of this mostly empty town smelling of aftershave. And we looked at you and they were, where are we?

And we were not DC anymore to work there. We literally, we drove down the street, took a right and rented that house. It's two blocks away. As a crow flies one block away from Turner's drugstore. And Kagan, like most of us, had side interest. He liked working with his hands. And after not working with his hands all day on a computer, he felt the itch to get them dirty. Given that his wife went to bed at 9pm, Kagan had some freedom to play around in what he called

his tree fort. That happened to be the largest building on Main Street Water Valley that was abandoned and actually about to be demolished, so Kagan bought it. And he fixed it up from 9pm till 1 or 2 in the morning most nights. His wife ended up taking the renovated ground floor and turned it into what they call the BTC, which is a farmer's market slash grocery store slash restaurant, and it gave massive momentum to the revitalization of downtown Water Valley, which believe it or not has been profiled in the New York times of all places. And guys, this normal couple, they were just getting started. In 2012, six years after coming to Mississippi, I stepped away from corporate America.

And I... Because you need more time in your tree house? No, that tree house was done. Oh boy. There's a lot that goes into it. That's kind of the moment when the chip fell off my shoulder. And I had two children, two and three. I had a wife that I adore. And I had always wanted those things. Separate from the economic chip, I had a wife that I adore, and I had always wanted those things. Separate from the economic chip, I had always wanted a wife and kids,

and I had them, and I was never home. It's not a joke, it's, we talk about the golden handcuffs, particularly for folks that have that desire to be able to afford things. When you can, it's addictive. It is. When you can afford vehicles that you used to only see dry by. The chip becomes an addiction. I believe so for some folks. And in 2012, making me feel guilty about the new car just bought. It's nice. Yeah, they're nice. But there's different paths to achieve those things. And again, my wife takes credit by telling me that I could

stop, that we could re-evaluate. Wow. And I gave notice the next morning. You're kidding. So a few years pass while I'm playing with my family. But again, I don't sit still, so we buy a farm. Of course. And then my wife and I purchased and renovated another five buildings on major. Five. One and six. Because there were five for sale. Right. I was just I was swear to you I was about to say there wasn't a six. It's like any Murphy story when they asked the guy why he killed his family said they was at home. So the point is why didn't you do six because they was only five. So you bought them all. A bottom all and that And that had taken up some time.

And then we had, I finished that. And again, I don't sit still well. That is my happy spot, is being busy. You're like, you're like daddy war bucks of downtown Water Valley with all your property, aren't you? In the ownership number, if you're buying in rural Mississippi, the property values are very different. So really?

Yeah, so when I used to propose to my wife buying something else, and she would look at me and say, really, that one's collapsed. Why in the world would we want that one? For a while, we tipped over this threshold, but for longer than you would believe, everything we had purchased and invested, every nickel we have into Water Valley, Mississippi,

you could have liquidated all of them, and you still wouldn't have been able to buy that townhouse and Georgetown that we had our eye on when we were still living in DC. It's just the economics of rural America are their decades behind the major metropolitan areas in the country. You might say they are decades behind on a ballot sheet, but some would argue their decades behind a lifestyle. Because think of what difference you've been able to make here for the city and for the youth in the city and for countless people versus owning a town

home in DC. They just don't seem to measure up, do they? No, and there's not much to do with your hands in the townhouse in DC. Not much. Yes, the dollar goes a long way for everybody in rural. Yeah, that's pretty amazing. And Main Street's taken a completely different vibe to what's happened. There has been just a head of steam that's built up. And I could go incrementally, so the mechanics bank,

which used to be the bank of Water Valley, that cool bank building that you had heard about, that was torn down in the early 80s, that is now mechanics bank. Actually, there may be some more complications around that franchise that might have been bought by Renaissance Bank. But anyway, the bank. It's a bank. It's a bank, mechanics bank. Actually, there may be some more complications around that franchise that might have been bought by Renaissance Bank.

But anyway, the bank is and water valley is its headquarters. And it had buildings, it had been buying buildings on Main Street to operate out of because there was no other competition. And at some point, the board of that bank, who are all local folks said, if other people are borrowing money from us to invest into the buildings all around us, then we need to step up as well. And they did a million dollar plus renovation on the front and interior of their building. And it just incrementally up and down the street, folks would just lean in and first clean the front of the face and then dig in.

I mean, are you willing to understand that this probably doesn't happen unless you decide to move here from DC and have a tree for? No, I'm not. Well, I don't want that kind of responsibility. And there's that responsibility. It's an awesome irony of life. It's a timing. It is timing, but honestly, dude, I mean, it's no different than when, you know,

your grandmother took five kids to Vermont and a bunch of cow kids tripped over Swiss myths out there with a with a guitar. That was timing that worked out too, but honestly, dude, if you're not interested in a rule setting and fallen love with a milkshake making pharmacist and decide to run a house around the corner and have a tree fort, water valley still looks like it did 10, 20, 30, and 40 years ago. That's an amazing story. It's a whole town. There are catalysts that come out of all sorts of directions. And look, I appreciate your humility, but I'm going to say it to the people listening. It is a normal guy, just an average dude who used his talents to do something extraordinary. And I mean, a whole town's been revitalized.

And certainly there were other people involved. I'm sure the pharmacist guy that somehow by hook or cook kept his storefront going, the art guy that did that, that people involved in the bank. But the truth is the building that your farmer's market's in, and that was your tree house, was gonna be yanked down, and you saved it from that. And that becomes an anchor along with the bank to the whole thing, and it's just an amazing story,

but it's not even to me the real story. The real story? Well, that's after the break. What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio.

Where am I? Why, this is the Pendleton. All residents, please return to your habitation. Light stuff on your feet! You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead to Me. Am I under arrest?

We know what can use that word. Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time. So this is a prison then? No, it's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask or are you going to do that?

Yes, Kate. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts over wherever you get your podcasts. Our first call is Mary in Lexington, Kentucky. Mary, welcome to the middle. Hello, and thanks for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country heading into the 2024 election, you have to get away from the extremes and listen to the middle. Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia.

On the new podcast, The Middle with Jeremy Hobson, I'm live every week taking your calls and focusing on Americans in the middle, who are so important politically but are often ignored by the media. I did a lifetime democratic voter, however I was raised by moderate Republicans from Michigan. Creating space for a civil conversation about the most contentious issues we face, from climate change to artificial intelligence, from abortion rights to gun rights. I consider myself to be conservative physically but politically independent. abortion rights to gun rights. Listen to the Middle of Jeremy Hobson on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Join former 90210 star Brian Austin Greene, along with Dancing with the Stars' fan favorite Sharna Burgess and Hollywood air-turned-life coach Randy Spelling, as they navigate life, love, and the quest for happiness in the new podcast, Oldish. "- Have I finally found the secret to happiness and the key to a successful relationship?" "- That's hype, so. Because the best of that is with me." Ryan, a father of five, who's endured a public divorce and a string of unhealthy relationships,

and Sharna, a self-proclaimed serial monogamous, have been in a whirlwind romance since meeting in 2020. Now they'll tackle the challenges of blended family life while dealing with relentless paparazzi. With the help of their friend Randy, they share their life lessons, pondering the meaning of it all in the world of the oldest. And even though this Hollywood couple finally found each other, they don't have all the answers. Oh, don't a second!

Well, that's where I come in. I'm prepared to guide you or listeners through some of life's funniest, awkward, or difficult moments. Listen to Oldish on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. In your spare time because you, I guess, completed your tree, what'd you call it? Tree? My tree for it? Yeah. What a tree for it. Because you completed your tree for it, you decide that you're going to start base camp. Just tell us what base camp is originally

and why and what your thinking was behind it. I'm going to shut up and just look, I want our listeners to just understand why base camp started and what it was at the beginning and what your purpose was. Share that. I'll try to, it's along complicated because it starts before we start a Basecamp. Glenn came to visit with me. Glenn Evans, the then president of FNC. And we had dinner and the conversation was, what's next? Are you going to come back? And I always appreciated that Glenn always kept that all the branch out of that.

That's that is a special dude who, you know, you can leave with reasonable reason. I'm sure you didn't just leave, but you can leave, but he keeps the door open for you. It says a lot about him, it says a lot about you too. I gave it to him. Because if you sucked, he wouldn't let you come back. I hope that's true. Right.

I gave notice, but I stayed with the company for three months. I understand, that's what I'm saying. I gathered that. But in that conversation, my answer was no, but I really, if you're lucky in life, no matter what you're doing, you collect people you just enjoy being with. Could not agree. It's something I say a lot. You collect these personalities along the way that you influence and influence you.

That are mutually beneficial. And Mike Mitchell is on that list, Glennas on that list, Sage Nichols, John Marcellis, Bethany Cooper, and these are all people that I don't care if we were mucking out ditches, those are the people I'd like to do it with. I get it. So we started talking about what can we do that matters and who can we do it with. But the basic foundational thought when you live in rural Mississippi and you get involved in your community in any way, you meet kids who are smart and they're hard workers and they're scrappers.

Kids that you would meet in any other community that you grew up on, the coasts, anywhere else. But if you're there long enough, the story often becomes, if they graduate from high school, you lose track of them for the next time you see them, they're pushing a stroller, and they don't have a job. Or they're working a job that is just undervaluing their potential.

And I think we're gonna agree that's a story all over rural America today. Yes. So if you come from the East Coast and I could categorize myself as a poor-ish kid and what the opportunities on the coasts, I left my parents' house without any sort of financial anything, and I went to a very expensive school and was able to borrow and work my way through that, and was able to springboard from that education into a corporate environment that created all sorts of opportunities. And then I despite my origins, I didn't feel any barriers. If I pushed hard enough, I felt like any door that was in my way, I could just break down.

And then you move to a part of the country where you look around and that energy does not exist. So that's one half of the equation. You're just living in a community and you're looking around and you're thinking, why are these kids? Why have they given up? So one half the equation. The other half is you move from DC to a little part of Mississippi

and you're working for a company that's growing in the tech sector and you spend all your time trying to find staff, trying to find them locally, failing, trying to get them to relocate from places in the country where they are, getting them, I'm a prime example, to relocate to this place, and then most of them don't stick. And they are so concentrated in three or four years in our country. Correct. And it becomes almost organic in those part of the countries,

but it prohibits growth in that sector to any other part of the country. Yes, and you have, if you do have seeds of this type of company that grow or try to grow outside of those areas of our country, oftentimes not through any fault of their own, but because of that shortage of resources, they just move to where they can find the talent.

And so you have folks that are leaving this area and they're going to Atlanta, they're going to Dallas, they're going to San Francisco. So the issue you saw was disenchantment, franchism, and a little bit of, not object poverty, but certainly a little bit of economic hopelessness. And you saw a need in a company that you were in that you couldn't found top. Correct. And if you look at the barrier, so it turned into a two problems,

they kind of complement each other. We have bright folks, we have companies that need bright folks. The barrier is a skill set and money. Great. And if money is the only barrier to acquiring that skill set, how much does that actually cost? Because we talk all day long about the social safety net and all these things, but wearing purely a business hat, how much does it cost? I know how much we pay to move someone from DC to come to Mississippi to work. I know how much you have to write a check to a sourcing agency or a talent agency to help

you find those people. And how much does it cost to do that relocate them and then lose them and do it again? Every time they leave and you have a culture problem in your company and just the HR costs of bringing on people and losing people and bringing on people. Yeah, it's the cost. So when we Glenn Evans, who was the president of the company I was working for, FNC. FNC, who is just a wonderful person if we have time, all wax poetic about how wonderful Glenn is. We looked at that and thought, what if we could solve both of these problems? And in the corporate space, what if it wasn't that expensive? Because the dollar to bring in a capable software developer is 20, we're talking 20 plus

thousand dollars. You're paying a sourcing agency a percentage of their salary for the first six months. You're paying relocation costs, all those inherent costs of just bringing them up to speed with the specific technology you use. So the cost associated with relocating and retaining verse, the cost associated with just training. Right. And my wife is always teasing me that this idea is actually her idea. It's just a farmer's market. It's just locally sourcing. But we, so when we went out, is essentially to raise some money, we didn't make a heart, you know, strings pulling pitch. We want to do some good works.

We went out with a clear, we need to do an economic study. This is just business R&D. Can we solve this business problem? And how much is it going to cost? And the unknowns were how much it was going to cost. And if our young folks in Mississippi would be capable. And we raised half a million dollars from an amazing assortment of philanthropist

and private sector companies to run a three-year pilot. The same way in... Which is, the three-year product is take these kids, not kids, I guess Eric, as you know, the olds, whatever. I don't even know which is supposed to call people that age. When they're, when my kids were that age, I called them idiots. So we call them whatever, but you take this segment, age of people that really are in a place like Water Valley with not a whole lot of opportunity and options. And you're going to use that money to train them to be what? To train them to be what's the software developers software developers so that sounds like something Gugli and you Huey from the West Coast absolutely

But we don't have those in water bodies. It's it's also what the company that I moved to Mississippi to work with does If it that's not that's not the way it works. That happens in Silicon Valley and where all the Swart people live. That there's so much in that statement that is true in people's minds. I know. And the walls do understand the walls that we ran it, here's an unrelated. When I first came to Mississippi, and I drove to the Jackson, Mississippi airport, passed a marketing campaign that someone had paid a marketing company to put together.

Somebody had paid for the billboards. And the theme of it was, yes we can read, this is the one that always pops in my mind. Yes we can read, some of us can even write pops in my mind. Yes, we can read. Some of us can even write. And then it would show some burnings. Meaning Mississippi. The marketing campaign is reinforcing.

The first statement they make to you is a reinforcement of the negative stereotypes that every person that grows up in Mississippi is just forced to take in that people underestimate you. You talk about the chip on your shoulder. Imagine being a born and bred second or third generation of the Mississippi and hearing that crowd all your life. And that's supposed to be the uplifting part.

It is the uplifting part. And so when you talk about chip on your shoulder, I love an underdog because Yeah. Because I genuinely... You were one. And I don't know where it comes from, but I genuinely, like, anything is possible. The question is how. And then once you identify the how, it's, are you willing to do that? That has to be from your grandmother, uproot, and five kids are going to Vermont and start

a deck of, that's some genetics in there. Okay, so, so we got got 500,000 dollars. We got half million dollars. Yep. And we got all these kids that you're going to make one more time computer programmers in water valley necessity. Correct. Because that makes losses. And it does make sense. But you know what I'm saying? Nobody's thinking we can go to Water Valley, Mississippi, and Recrupe, Computer Programmers to our companies across the country except you. And so you start what you called Basecamp. And Basecamp was a school to teach them this stuff, right? How many people in the first base camp class

above the grocery store started 14 and graduated 12th. And how long did it take those 12 to graduate? How long was the curriculum? It's 11 and a half months. One year. One year full time, 40. And and completely paid for by your donations. And those 12 that graduated. How many of them got jobs within five months? All of them got internships before graduation. Okay. And so they went to FedEx, they went to CSPIRE and they went to CoreLogic. And what kind of income does a computer programmer with these people's background after a couple of years in that business. What is what kind of annual income can they expect? So they're starting between $46.50, $2,000.

For those of you listening in Manhattan and LA, $46.50 to $50,000 does not sound like a lot of money. But let me me taste something. In and around Water Valley and Memphis, that is a good living. And we're talking about kids who work going to college, had a Water Valley Haskell education and are now starting in that world and in 10 10, 15 years, it just keeps getting better and better and better from there. Absolutely.

And I just, I pulled open my notebook because I'm working on some grants for some of our water associations here. Yeah, give us a, give us the dope. And I just was looking at the median home income. Tell me. And in Water Valley, it's 45,000. In Coffeeville, it's 37,000. And in. It's 37,000 and in Oakland is 26.

So as you get a little more rural from this town and this is a 3,400 in downtown. And what's the United States? The United States is 67.5. Yeah, but if you took away the top mostly coastal, but you would have to include maybe Chicago and Minneapolis. But if you took away the top 20 cities, mostly coastal, and included in that probably, I guess,

Minneapolis and Chicago out of that number, I bet that 67 goes down below 50. Yeah, if you take the musks out of those equations. That would be just a guess. I have no data to back that up, but that mood makes sense. And the point is, your people are from Water Valley, Mississippi. Well, we recruit, it's a 50 mile radius. Okay. They're from rural North Mississippi. Yes. Going to a one year paid for free school, not leaving with student loans and debt and all that.

Correct. And making more money than the vast majority of college graduates from the University of Mississippi 20 minutes up the road. Yes. I hate to cast dispersions. It's not dispersions, facts or facts. I'm fat and redheaded. That's not dispersion, it's just the truth.

It's a harsh reality. I'm actually starting to get gray now. I mean, it's worse. I'm fat and almost redheaded, but I have hair. So, there's no more. Yeah, but you're so tall, nobody can see up there anyway. Don't worry about it. Just my kids.

Yeah, but that's the truth. That's an amazing thing. And that's your one. So, we ran the first two classes and completely transparent to all the folks, particularly the folks that were writing the checks. Yeah, I got to be. Is this working or not? We're not.

Is it working? Of course it was working. The people writing the checks were they corporate sponsors and were some of your people get in place in their businesses. Yes. Well, they're paying for their own to train people that they can't hire. That's a great thing for them.

It is. We didn't know if it was going to work. So we started with three different curriculums that were designed based on honestly the aptitude of the students. They're coming out of Mississippi public schools. We didn't know what kind of gaps we were going to have to fill. We didn't know how much we could push them.

And we knew to be market ready, if you think of the students not as warm and fuzzy, but as a product that the companies have to buy, they have to buy into the concept of educating them. And it's only a success if they buy the output, which means they hire, and they only will buy two times in row if they're pleased with the value that they receive when that person joins the workforce. That sounds like business to me. Yes.

Kind of ABCs. And that's a lot of unknowns when we see it our first time. But you're testing it out and you knew with the 500,000, you were gonna do a three-year test out. So we had, we could stress test. We could not worry about making big mistakes. Okay, so drum roll, this year, this year, how many students?

This year we have 30, 30 something. And this will be what number? This is the seventh. So we talked about them as version software development. So this is version seven of the base camp classes. So you've had to have a hundred graduates by this point. There I think it's high 80s. High 80s. It'll be over a hundred after this class. Yes. What's the do you have the numbers? What's the percent of people that have gotten jobs and

Oh yeah, the the employment rate is still about 95 percent. No 95% and 95% of people starting around 45 to 52 And my guess is these group of 12 who've been doing it for seven years have had opportunities to advance and move up in the company and make more.

They're, yes. So it's fun to see their promotions. They trickle in through LinkedIn or I get emails from some of them. How rewarding. It's a feel good, yeah. We'll be right back. What is this place?

Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. Where am I? Why, this is the Pendleton. All residents, please return to your habitation. Light stuff on your feet!

You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead to Me. Am I under arrest? We know I can use that word. Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time. So this is a prison then?

No, it's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask, or are you going to do that? Yes, keep. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. wherever you get your podcasts.

Our first call is Mary in Lexington, Kentucky. Mary, welcome to the middle. Hello, and thanks for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country, heading into the 2024 election, you have to get away from the extremes and listen to the middle. Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia.

On the new podcast, The Middle with Jeremy Hobson, I'm live every week taking your calls and focusing on Americans in the middle who are so important politically but are often ignored by the media. I did a lifetime democratic voter, however I was raised by moderate Republicans from Michigan. Creating space for a civil conversation about the most contentious issues we face from climate change to artificial intelligence from abortion rights to gun rights. I consider myself to be conservative, physically,

but politically independent. Listen to the Middle of Jeremy Hobson on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Hi, I'm Marissa Fallberg. And I'm Steven Wolf-Bedator. And we want to invite you to join us for a new podcast for Ann Nue. So what's actually new about brand-new? Well, Steven and I are not only working

C-suite executives, we're friends. My friend Marissa is actually one of the most influential chief marketing officers in the world. And hey, Steven has a story career across finance, tech, and multicultural entertainment. Because of that, we've got a lot to say about the world of tech, entertainment, advertising, media, and marketing, what we actually call teen. We always adore each other, but don't always agree with each other, and that's part of

the fun. It's real talk from the inside, sometimes personal talk too, and it's meant for everyone, rising in business, or just interested in it. In each episode, we give our hot takes on hot topics, and always answer what's on your minds too. Just look for the brand new podcast on the iHeart Podcast Network, or wherever you listen. It's a brand new conversation that you won't want to miss.

I got the math behind. There's these kids. I got the math behind the businesses needed, okay, but these kids, why'd you give a crap other than as a young man you spent a lot of time with your mom and old people's houses. That's an interesting. So I also spent a lot of time starting at eight working in every crevice around my school schedule. No, I get that, but that doesn't create empathy. Yeah, I think it's, I have this deeply ingrained belief that everyone should get to do whatever they want to, if they're willing to do the work. And I've always thought that. And Mississippi kind of broke me of that opinion and made it clear that no, that's just being able to feel like you're somewhere near the bottom and looking up and feeling like it's

just a climb is a privilege. Manassas Hospital broke me, bro. I coached there for seven years and I always believed because of where I came from, that if you wanted to work hard and knuckle down and do the right thing, this country offered you a free education and opportunities for success, you just had to go work for it. And the maybe unpopular and inconvenient truth is that's crap. There are some people who have all of those things, and their culture and society oftentimes won't turn them loose, and they don't know how to get loose. And I have found if you help give them a roadmap,

I give them a handout, but a handout that oftentimes they can find success and it sounds like to me that's exactly what you've experienced here. Yes, this isn't a gift. Like there's a big component of it that's a gift to each one of our students and I like that there are no strings attached. And that's the biggest impediment that we have, the trust impediment in Mississippi, when we say, are you

willing to work at this? Because if you are, we'll give it to. And everyone sits back and says, yeah, but where's the button? And I like and glen in the rest of the board of base camp has made it clear that this is a gift. It's a karmic gift. It's a, however you want to structure it. But to succeed here, it's 40 hours for the core base camp students every week for a year.

You don't get the big breaks. You don't get the months off in the summer. It is a show, but 830, leave it 430 and work your tail off. Yeah, but at the end of it look what you get sure And it's an opportunity that many of these folks would never otherwise have Unfortunately, I agree with you however even that is if they have come through a public school system that's never pushed them.

And they have come from a social structure that has not told them if you work hard, you can get places. The number of times they don't see it. They don't see it. So we do things again that wouldn't have occurred to me in the early days. We take students out when we can to visit places of business, to reinforce the goal. And I thought, I'm a good communicator, and I met for the first few years, I met every single prospect of student. I knew everybody very well. I got to say all the words to them over and over

about what we were going to do, where it was going to lead. And the first class, we took them on a short field trip, and we took them up to the FNC offices. And I had been talking about what working in the software development culture was like, what your day job would be like. We had had guest speakers. But they walked into that building and they saw ping-pong cable, and they walked into that building and they saw ping pong table and they saw cubicles and they saw snack room and they saw people like leaning over cubicles and just talking and they were all shell shocked and I didn't understand what was going on until I got them back. Can I do that? Can I guess? Absolutely. That the public school systems and their tar lives were so regimentally institutionalized that they didn't know people

could exist like that. Yes, they walked in. Is that right? You're right. I finally got them talking and we got back and their expectation, after all my lovely fuzzy words, were Soviet era lines of machines, keeping it out. You know, I never having been exposed. You know, I can't help but think when people hear the success

of what's happened here, especially throughout the the flyover states, that there's not going to be one or some group of people compelled to say, if they could do it, Water Valley, Mississippi, you know, my thought is, you know, just from a business perspective, they're scaled to this idea. This is completely doable in other places. It absolutely is. And there, if I gave a little pitch. I want to pitch.

If there's anybody, I'm actually trying to set up a picture, bro. If there is anybody who feels like dedicating their time and energy to this, we're an open book. So we have, we'll share everything. We'll share our finances, we'll share any part of the story, we'll share what it took to work here and our curriculum and anything else.

I just, I won't sugarcote. It's a lot of work. And we have a board of seven folks. I'm one of seven. And we donate thousands of hours because we believe in the outcomes and the purpose of this entity. So if you have a group like that that you enjoy working with,

that you'd be happy to dig ditches with because some days it'll feel like digging a ditch. Reach out. I speak a lot about about my experiences and I usually do Q&As after the speeches and I get questions. But the number one question I get that's never asked by the audience, but they always walk up afterwards is How did you get started, you know and what you just said? Answers the question if you want to get started call Kakin

That's it I prefer email You know it. All right. If you want to get started contact. Kagan. How's that? My email address is Kagan, K-A-G-A-N, at basecampcodingacademy.org. And I would love to see. We've had a few code crew in Memphis has taken this concept. And they dug in. They came down here. They audit our classroom. They wanted to see exactly what was working. And they've had a successful version of base camp. That's amazing. So it's already like putting a gremlin in water. It's popping. Good for you. Kagan. Yes. The truth is, you're an average blue collar kid from

Vermont who showed up in DC and decided that was crazy, moved to Oxford, moved to Water Valley, helped revitalize an entire downtown area that was basically gone. And in doing so over the last seven years, created a school that has made an opportunity for a bunch of kids from a lost area in North Mississippi. That is phenomenal, bro. That's what it is. You can, you can humiliate it. And all, by the way, the all-shucks thing you got going on,

that's pretty Mississippi. That's pretty good. You got that down. Maybe there's some of that for a bot too, but the all-shucks thing in That's pretty good. You got that down. Maybe there's some of that for a bot too, but the all-shocks thing in Mississippi is pretty good, but you get all-shocks as all you want. That is a phenomenal story. And it's not even, I mean, we're, if the books, 35 chapters, I get to sense we're in chapter 16. I get to sense we're in chapter 16.

There, so I think the all-shocks comes a lot from me and my sense of satisfaction about anything lasts for about a day, once it's successful. And that could be a two-year-old. Time to move on. Next, what's on? What's next? I don't get a lot, and I don't know where that comes from, but I don't get a lot of patting myself on the back.

I get it. And I honestly think that would probably, the moment you paused or reflect, you've picked your head up, and you need to put it back down and get back to work. So it is lovely to hear in a synopsis that, oh, this is all the stuff that's happened so far. I want to say something to you.

I am, and I know you've heard it, and I know you've done interviews, and, you know, taken seriously. I've been around a lot of people and interview a lot of people. Your story is so interesting, and what is exciting to me is, know there's a what's up next for you and there's no doubt you're gonna do a lot more but the title of the show is an army of normal folks and it's because I am so inspired by normal folks that do extraordinary things. I'm not really inspired by the people who hog all the wildlife and I'm compelled to tell those stories because I'm hoping those

stories will be an incentive for other folks to say, yeah, you don't have to come from money. You don't have to be somebody special. You don't have to all you got to do is try and involve and involve and make a difference in your community and your society and you, my friend, have absolutely done that. And you are a part of the Army of Normal Folks, and I'm inspired by you, and I know your story is gonna inspire listeners. Thank you. You're very welcome.

And thank you for joining us this week. If Kagan or another guest has inspired you in general or better yet to take action by heck helping revitalize your own town by starting a version of Basecamp Coding Academy by donating to them or something else entirely. I really want to hear about it. Please write me anytime at billatnormalfokes.us. I promise you I'll respond. And if you enjoyed this episode, share it with friends and on social. Subscribe to the podcast, rate, review it, become a premium member at normalfoces.os. Do all of the things that will help us grow and army of normal folks.

I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week. 13 days of Halloween Penance Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio If I am under arrest, you have to tell me what I'm charged with Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead To Me Please, you've been some kind of mistake. I'm not supposed to be here How do you know? I'm innocent

Are any of us truly innocent? Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When Tracy Rekelle Burns was two years old, her baby brother died. I was told that Matthew died in an accident. Her parents told police she had killed him.

I'm Nancy Glass. Join me for Birdon of Guilt, the new podcast that tells the true an incredible story of a toddler who was framed for murder. Listen to Birdon of Guilt on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, Katie, quick, rapid fire. What do you think about when you think about black stories? Tony Morrison. Long novels. Zines. Very complex stories. Movie night with popcorn. Lineage and

history. BTO words. Hood motifs. I'm reliable narrators. So it's hard to condense a narrative that's so big into such a small space. But that's why we have the podcast. I'm Katie. And I'm Eves. And on on theme, we tell stories about black stories. Listen to own theme on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.