An Army of Normal Folks - Lee Robbins: We Don’t Need 2nd Chances, We Need Better Chances (Pt 2)

Episode Date: December 5, 2023

The pastor and businessman never expected to find himself in prison, and yet there he was. So he decided to dive in, serving the minds and souls of the men around him. When Lee got out, he started a re-entry program called Vital Signs, which has helped over 1,800 returning citizens, boasts a recidivism rate of only 2%, and our favorite part is that it’s self-sustaining!Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an Army of Normal Folks, and we continue now with part two of our conversation with Pastor Lee Robbins right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of new podcast called Tosh Show, brought to you by I Heart Podcasts. Why am I getting into the podcast game now? Well, it seemed like the best way to let my family know what I'm up to instead of visiting or being part of their incessant group text.

I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting, so not celebrities, and certainly not comedians. I'll be interviewing my plumber, my stylist, my wife's gynecologist. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, my stylist, my wife's gynecologist, will be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire, or one that will really make you think, this isn't the one for you, but it will be entertaining to a very select

few because you don't make it to your mid-40s with IBS without having a story or two to tell. Join me as I take my place among podcast royalty like Joel Olstein and Lance Bass. Those are words I hope I'd never have to say. Listen to Toss Show in the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is the greatest murder mystery in American history. That's Rob Breiner, Rob called me, so let it out, O'Brien, and ask me what I knew about this crime. I know 60 years later, new leads are still emerging.

To me, an award-winning journalist, that's the making of an incredible story. And on this podcast, you're going to hear it told by one of America's greatest storytellers. Well, ask who had the motive to assassinate a sitting president. My dad, the father of JFK, screwed us at the Bay of Pigs, and then he screwed us after the Cuban Missile Crisis. We'll reveal why Lee Harvey Oswald isn't who they said he was. I was under the impression that Lee, who has been trained for a specific operation, then will pull the curtain back on the cover-up. The American people need to know the truth.

Listen to Who Killed JFK on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mary K. McBrare, host of the podcast, The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. I write about true crime, which means I live inside the research wormhole, but I'm not necessarily interested in the headline grabbing elements, the blood, and the gore, all of that. I'm more interested in the people behind these stories, and what we can learn by looking at their experiences.

You can meet me every week on the greatest true crime stories ever told, where I dig into crimes where a woman is not just a victim. She might be the detective, the lawyer, the witness, the coroner, the criminal, or some combination of these roles. I delve into the good, the bad, the difficult, and all the nuance I can find. Because these are the stories we need to know to understand the intersection of society, justice, and the fascinating workings of the human psyche. Listen to the greatest true-crime stories ever told on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. We now return to our conversation about pastor Lee serving his fellow prisoners. So that's phenomenal. But that ends when your time is. Right. And so my time now is time for me to go. So I have to build up some people. Three, three and a half years. Three and a half years.

Do you do all three and a half? No, I actually got benefit of the second chance at. Good. I was two of thousands of us that got the benefit of going home six months early. That's crazy. So I did three and then six and a half way house. I got to ask you something. Yeah.

How long does three years feel like when you've had a wife and children outside waiting on you? How long does that feel like? A life? What does a day feel like? A day is, first of all, you are active and you work in and there and you just like anybody else you're working but I can remember coming home

and I'm making $25 a month, 12 cents an hour, working full time, and inside the prison. And I would use 15 of those dollars to call home, to talk to my wife, to talk to my children. She would bring up some disciplinary issues to children. And I couldn't find it in my heart to really get on them. Yeah, how do you get on your children? Yeah, I'm sure. You ain't got number two minutes

and you get on them and you don't want that to be. And so I was an easygoing dad, you know, and just speaking love to them, you know, speaking life to them. And then you get a few minutes, mom was so on selfish. So she like, spend the time with the kids, you know, so I would do that. And you know, times of visitations were like crazy week. She would bring them up every week.

And they love that because they get a chance to get to the vendor machines and act crazy and do stuff. That stuff ocean on your wife's part. She stuck by you seriously through all this. Absolutely. Absolutely. Every single week. Every single week she bought.

There was one week that she did and then it really, that bothered me because you can't call out. So you don't know why. I don't know why. You know, things maybe they got into an accident trying their't know why. I don't know why, you know, things maybe they got into an accident trying to weigh over here. What's up, what's up, what's up. And you know, you know, in prison, they got phones and stuff like that and I never used a phone. I'm the pastor in the compound, you know, I'm trying to set an example. Man, I'm gonna tell you,

I got tempted to use that phone this time. I'm like, give me, hey, man, y'all give me a phone. And oh, somebody's got a contraband phone. They got a contraband phone. And you won't use it because you're trying to do right. I'm trying to do right. And Travis showed them how to do right. And they were offering to me, man, you need to check on your wife, man, here's the phone, man, go ahead.

I can't do it, I can't do it. And I did. Oh man, that had to be hard. It was hard. It was hard. Then I I had a lot of favorite prison too. And so the officers favorite me. I worked in RID. That's receiving I call it it's called recede and discharge. So when the people first come in the prison. I thought it was research and development. I changed it to redeem and deliver. Yeah, I changed it to redeem and deliver. You know, the R.D. means a lot of things.

I changed it to that. So I was seeing them come in and going out. So the office was their favorite me. Even though they say you ain't going to get any favorite. They heard my story and they kind of favored me in that sense. And so the office called for me. Called home. Called home for me and found out that, you know,

she just didn't have no gas money to get there. She just, she just, which brings on a whole another set of emotions because there's a husband, you haven't been able to provide. Gas money. Just gas money. Gas money. When I was the sole provider for the family for years,

that makes you feel like a loser. Yeah, for real. I mean, with a capital L, I mean, it's just, you go and you're like, don't ever worry about coming. If you don't have any gas money, don't let the option be gas money food come to see me. No, you take that money and help your,

help the kids out and bless. And she never worked those three and a half years, never had to work outside the home. You know what happened? Our mailbox became a money box. Wow. People started donating to her to pay our bills, you know? But three and a half years,

we're three years and then the six months I was in a halfway house. I was able to, since then. All right, so now you're out. Business is gone. Church that you started may not be gone, but you're not pastoring it anymore. I mean, they'd had to move on.

Nothing had hated you, but it hadn't moved on. And you've had this experience about mentoring folks in prison and seeing them getting redemption from it. Uh-huh. So, yeah. What happens? Yeah, I'm out. At this point,

sometimes in this passion that was ignited in prison, never thought, I can remember driving around a prison in my neighborhood, and I thought, one day I'm going there, and I'm going to minister. But, you, and I thought, one day I'm gonna go in there and I'm gonna minister. But, you know, I was playing on coming home, you know. I didn't want to spend a night.

Right. So that happened actually, and I thought, so my passion was ignited in prison. I knew call, my new purpose now. I got to do this. This is a problem. And that's like a lot of entrepreneurs think they think, okay, if I can find a problem, I could be do this. This is a problem. And that's like a lot of entrepreneurs think they think okay if I can find a problem I could be a solution and then there can be a difference there

They think money in that term. I'm thinking like relationship capital now I'm really got my heart changed and I and if money comes so be it that I'm gonna focus on helping people right now So I volunteer for this organization called GGR a Greater Gnetic Reentry Alliance. Help to start that organization. I'm sorry, say it again. Greater Gnetic Reentry Alliance. Reentry Alliance, which is again a huge problem in our country about how do we get folks out of prison to reenter society and acclimate and not go right back into prison again. Exactly. Like the dreaded recidivision that we all have heard about.

70% people go right back after three years. You got 8 numbers that were in the system in 1940. Exactly. 500% 100% Which is a whole another conversation. Right. But the point is, there's a whole lot of folks coming in the prison system, leaving, going back in the prison system and what's what I call, and I don't know what the word

is, but I call, and I don't know what the word is, but I call it being institutionalized. I call it where a human being just becomes part of the institutions that house him. Right. Yep. And they just they just rotate in and out. Yeah, they do. They do. And it's also a society issue. Sure. Because I can remember, you know, I'll talk about that story when I start working for probation and parole. Now, I'm trying to figure out, first of all, how I get a job working for the state,

probation and parole and anything. I mean, and so I told them, I said, with no money, you're money, with no money, my son, your desperate for a job. Yeah, well, this, this, this, this desperate for a job. This is, this is a good paying job with benefits, right? Right. I got a record. How do you get a job like that? And so that's part of the problem. Yeah. And so I'm there, you know, and they actually hired me. And I'm like, who they? They being probation and parole.

Which is the state? The state. So it's a state job. State job. So they hire an ex-fellon. I'm trying to figure out, how did you hire an ex-fellon? Right. Well, they had a stack of applications

like this for a community coordinator for one of the second largest counties in Georgia. Right? Governor Dill is known for reentry. He's a Republican governor, and he's known for reentry. That's his brain chow here in Georgia. And so he started this position with a federal grant, $6 million of a community coordinator.

What is my job? My job is to go out and be a resource capacities for returning citizens, those returning citizens, ex-affelvents, right? I got to be a resource like jobs, housing, transportation, things of that nature, and then connect the community. So relationships.

That was my job. That's what I love doing. Perfect. Perfect job. How did I get it? So I'm like, so when they offer me the job, I'm thinking, do they know I'm a, I have a record. Should I tell him? I'm not going to mess this all up. So the Lord tells me, you got to be honest with him, tell him. And so I tell the chief, the guy that said, hey, we're going to give you this job. I said, you know, I got a background, right? He said, no, you don't have a background.

I said, I said, oh, you can open your mouth up there. And I, he said, he said, no, we got the best background checking system in the world. This is probation in parole. I said, well, this is not April, Fuz day, and I'm telling you, I got a record. And I'm going to tell my testimony. I'm not going to be ashamed of my testimony.

He said, oh, no, we'll check that all the way up to the governor's office. We know that you don't have a record. And so I walk away from that. Oh, whoa, whoa. Yeah. He said you don't have a record. He said, I don't have a record because they check that stuff. Yeah. And we checked you all the way up. All the way out. How do you not at this point have a record when you know you have a record? Well, I had to find out why they couldn't find anything for real. For real? And I'm like, so I want to check my records myself.

Go all the way to the court documents. You know that just sealed all my records. Why? federal jobs sealed everything. Why? We talked about it earlier. They said, He wasn't doing something nice. No. It's because the thing was so screwed up, he wasn't doing something nice.

No, it's because the thing was so screwed up. He didn't want anybody getting into it. He got it. So it's it worked for my good to just day to this day. That whole proceeding. Seals just like it's done away with. If I never say anything about it, nobody would never know. You're kidding me.

And so when you were told this dude, you had a record. Yeah. I thought you were saying he was like, yeah, but tell this dude you had a record. Yeah, I thought you were saying he was like, yeah, but we don't consider that a record could we like you and everything. What's that? No, it's because they couldn't find that you had a record. They could. They could. They couldn't find it. And that's I said something. And I was going to say something because I'm using my life as a testimony to the, to the guide that's been to prison that you can do something with your life, right? And I don't need to hide that, right?

And I have no reason to hide that. And I'm not ashamed. The credit, it gives you some credibility with former prisoners, right? Exactly. When I go in and talk to people and I tell them I've been where they are, the instant credibility, sure. He listened to everything I'm seeing. We'll be right back. The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is the greatest murder mystery in American history.

That's Rob Breiner, Rob called me, so let Ado Bryan and ask me what I knew about this crime. I know 60 years later, new leads are still emerging. To me, an award-winning journalist, that's the making of an incredible story. And on this podcast, you're going to hear it told by one of America's greatest storytellers. We'll ask who had the motive to assassinate a sitting president. My dad, 5JFK, screwed us at the Bay of Pigs, and then he screwed us after the Cuban Missile Crisis. We'll reveal why Lee Harvey Oswald isn't who they said he was.

I was under the impression that Lee was being trained for a specific operation, then we'll pull the curtain back on the cover-up. The American people need to know the truth. Listen to Who Killed JFK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of new podcast called Tosh Show, brought to you by iHeart Podcast. Why am I getting into the podcast game now? Well, it seemed like the best way to let my family know

what I'm up to instead of visiting or being part of their incessant group text. I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting, so not celebrities, and certainly not comedians. I'll be interviewing my plumber, my stylist, my wife's gynecologist. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother.

If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire, or one that will really make you think, this isn't the one for you, but it will be entertaining to a very select few because you don't make it to your mid-40s with IBS without having a story or two to tell. Join me as I take my place among podcast royalty like Joel Olstein and Lance Bass. Those are words I hope I'd never have to say. Listen to Toss Show in the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mary K. McBrare, host of the podcast, The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told.

I write about True Crime, which means I live inside the research wormhole, but I'm not necessarily interested in the headline grabbing elements, the blood, and the gore, all of that. I'm more interested in the people behind these stories and what we can learn by looking at their experiences. You can meet me every week on The Greatest True Crime Stories ever told, where I dig into crimes where a woman is not just a victim. She might be the detective, the lawyer, the witness, the coroner, the criminal, or some combination of these roles.

I delve into the good, the bad, the difficult, and all the nuance I can find. Because these are the stories we need to know to understand the intersection of society, justice, and the fascinating workings of the human psyche. Listen to the greatest true-crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Alright, so you get this job. Yeah, and so I get this job. I'm working in probation for all these guys with guns, right?

Girls and guys with guns. They all around, I got an office in the middle of them, right? They have to do what I tell them to do as a community coordinator. I'm setting up all these events in the city. They have to show up, do the parking. They have to do the security. This dude went to prison. They know I've been to prison.

Yeah, you there, John. You there boss. I'm there boss. Yeah, that's great. I'm over the chief in the county. And because the governor set this position up, so I have governor, I can go anywhere in the state, get the keys to the state and say,

I'm a community coordinator from the governor's office and they're set a meeting with anybody with me. I had to open doors to Georgia. And so, so when they, when you say second chance, I tell people, I don't believe in second chances and I pause. You don't believe in second chance, what you're in this position for,

you don't believe in second chances. I come to understand that they need better chances. You can give them a second, third, fourth, 90 times, and they'll keep going to prison. Why? Because some of them never had a first chance. So it starts where you build what you've done with young people preventing them to go from the first place, right, giving them hope in the first place, right? Because once they get into the system,

it's not broken, it's fixed. That means it's going to do everything he's supposed to do in this business. We got to get our clients coming back. And if they don't have a better chance where society changes our mind about how we work with people come out of prison, oh, we're not going to get my job because they've been to prison. We're not going to get my housing. If somebody don't give me an opportunity to get housing, transportation, well, then you're probably gonna do

whatever you gotta do to survive. That's what it becomes. That's what it becomes. That's what it becomes. And so that's where I made it in my commitment, my ministry that I was gonna stand in the gap and be a bridge to change. I'm not gonna know that these things are happening and not create a bridge to change. I'm not going to know that these things are happening

and not create a job for them, not create housing, not create transportation. This is all the things that we do. Life coaching, I knew that they need that life coach because that helped a lot in prison. So I started creating all these things when I got out, to help a return citizen succeed. The program is six months to year. Once they come in they get jobs.

They start doing good jobs. You all help them find jobs. Yeah, we help them find jobs. We we have a agency that's committed to going to ex-offender employers, friendly employers, and building relationships with them. We go before them and say, hey, listen, there are some people behind us that you should hire. Why should I hire them? Well, they have drive.

They mean, their employment may make the difference between their freedom or not. So they're going to have a committed employee. Number two, we're helping to have that social support for them, transportation, coaching, mentoring. So we got to relate to that. That's part of the problem. I've hired X-Fellon's before. And I'll hire an X-Fellon tomorrow in my business. I have done it. Yeah. business, I have done it. But when the ex-fellon has to go visit his pro-losser when the lights ain't on, when they are living in a halfway house that they're up till two, three, four o'clock at night, because I'll earn and scream it down the hallway. I feel for them. But as an employer, I need folks to show up every day with a good night's rest with the ability to feed themselves in a place to go at night. Transpitation and I can't tell you how many times I end up hiring a halfway homeless dude who has no training and is only able to show up to work 60% of the time. And unfortunately, my heart feels,

but I got a business to run and I came up my business. I was like, that's unfair to you as a, so how do you keep that from happening? Well, you, we bring a business. Because then that leads to recidivision because eventually that guy can keep a job and that goes and still something ends up back in jail. That's unfair to the employer, right?

So you do have to think about it too side- and the employer gets all this the evil big employer. Oh yeah. No, it's yeah. You profits are a necessary measure of any business to success. That's right.

And you can do all kinds of wonderful society things, but if you ain't make a money, you ain't gonna do nothing for nobody. Exactly. And you can't make money without hard work and on time, good time employees,. And even though you want to help these folks, when they don't have the tools, you can't keep them in your business. You can't. You can't. That's just the reality of it. That is. So how do I keep your people in my business?

Exactly. How do I keep your people in my business? I understand you better. I start understanding what the employer needs and what they're looking for Employers are in business to make money to have to be they have to be it's not being business people here in us need to understand It's not greed. No, it's we answer to the bank where we get our loans We enter to the board that's gonna sit us down and grill us about while we have or have not made any money That's right. We we answer to the investors who expect to return on their investment. That's right. We are not being evil greedy people by making money or businesses. We're required to and we all answer to somebody. Absolutely. And that's and that's the reality. And it will stew and go show up to work. It'll make that impossible for

me to do. Yeah. He gone. Yeah. Now that sounds cold, but that's just real. Well, the people that that we work with the reason why they're working with us is because we try to eliminate those those obstacles right there. Right. We first of all, okay, I'm going to bring you a dude. Let's say let's say employ a and employ B potential employee A potential employee B. This potential employee A is one of our people, right? They come with support system, a life coach, housing, transportation, guarantee. That's all, all. That's a big one. And support, right?

With a drive to work, they, I mean, they have a passion and want to work. Plus, they have tax incentives, you know, that you, if you hire them, you get also liability insurance comes with them. Oh, wow. Right. The federal government will pay them, pay them, pay your liability insurance, take care of liability insurance and tax incentives, write offs with this guy, this person don't have none of that i mean other than some of the stuff they provide for themselves it's a no brainer for this employer let me give him a second chance okay all right longest but in our staff and we have a staffing company you keep him for six months and they come on my job and work and if they do well for six months, I'll hire them.

You you try before you buy. That's easy. You can't see you know retention is a problem with him. Employers haven't finding good employees and things of that nature and this turnover is what they don't like. It costs them money. It costs a lot of money. Yeah. To constantly be training, training and over and over again. So we try to eliminate that problem. And at the same time, we help in the returning citizen. And they got a place to go home.

Got a place to go home to. And so how long before your, your residents, I mean, they can't be, they can't be residents in perpetuity. They got to move on to their own life. Right. So what's there? What's their outside of our personal life plan? How do they get put back in society for real? Yeah, but we have a financial management plan with them. Wow. Right? So we control their finances. You control them. They sign over for us to control their finances. You control them. Control them. They sign over for us to control their finances.

They budget the monies that they get, we give them like a funds request for every week that they spend on what they want to spend on. They budget, they see a life coach every week. So you're forcing them to learn how to actually budget money and not cash their check at the liquor store at the liquor store You follow the money you control the addiction issues you follow the money You can control a lot of their bad habits

So you mean now they ain't getting a check and getting full in the grip of a bag of weed And other stuff you keep them that out of their reality as well. While we're training them disciplines, while we're teaching them budgeting, because they have to wow, after they save a certain amount of money, we give a little bit more over to them. And then they have to bring receipts back. So but you're pure miting their responsibility with money and freedom. Right. Up.

Yeah. And they say that creates a disment. They start liking them when they start seeing their account build up Thousands of dollars. They never saved any kind of money like that. I'm writing a check 10,000 5,000 when they leave our program and then we've already built a relationship with an employee complex You know that that will let them come in are they buy their own houses and you're telling me In a in a in a community of people who 70% end up it in the national over 70% of balance return to prison within I think two years right to the three years

it's three years it's three sorry so 70% of felons return to prison within three years. You're telling me that your data points are that 98% of the people that come through your program don't return to prison. Because it works. It works for them. It works for us. It works for society. But most people are not going to have all those wraparound services. Most people are not going to have that. We just have money come from for these services. For you to be able to house and do all this, where does the money come from? They pay program fees. They pay program fees after a while. And they're like, first three months, they don't have any money, right? Then they start building up their account, then they have to pay program

fees. And it goes back in. So this thing is self-sustaining? Yes. I don't have any money, right? Then they start building up their account, then they have to pay program fees and it goes back in. So this thing is self-sustaining? Yes. I don't get in grants. Hold, did you tell me this is... I expected this to be a windfall of money from the government or some benefactor somewhere or something. Don't receive it, don't you? Not only does this work, it's self-sustaining.

Self-sustaining. It pays pays for itself and how many residents do you have currently currently I had I just lost a house because the owner repurposed the house right and this is why we in the process of getting another one we had 10 in that house we got five in the house that we in now right right? And we're going to get another house. It's going to be we're looking at a duplex We're praying that we can get this duplex It can be 20 people that can go into that house. So really the scale of it is just your ability to house them because there's more

That want to be in this program than you have room if I can yeah if we can get a bigger place That same success rate will be there. Because the program works, it's just gotta get to housing. And so that's it. I mean, we've had three houses in the past, or we've had 20, 30 people that we were housed at a time. So it's, but it's definitely, it's self-sustaining.

And it has a 98% success rate. Yeah. That is an unbelievable story. Yeah. Yeah and it's it's working. We'll be right back. Bye. interesting, so not celebrities, and certainly not comedians. I'll be interviewing my plumber, my stylist, my wife's gynecologist. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire, or one that will really make you think, this isn't the one for you, but it will be entertaining to a very select few because you don't make it to your mid-40s with IBS

without having a story or two to tell. Join me as I take my place among podcast royalty like Joel Olstein and Lance Bass. Those are words I hope I'd never have to say. Listen to Tosho on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is the greatest murder mystery in American history. That's Rob Breiner, Rob called me, so let Ado Bryan and ask me what I knew about this

crime. I know 60 years later, new leads are still emerging. To me, an award-winning journalist, that's the making of an incredible story. And on this podcast, you're going to hear it told by one of America's greatest storytellers. Well, ask who had the motive to assassinate a sitting president. My dad, the father of JFK, screwed us at the Bay of Pigs, and then he screwed us after the Cuban Missile Crisis. We'll reveal why Lee Harvey Oswald isn't who they said

he was. I was under the impression that Lee was being trained for a specific operation, then we'll pull the curtain back on the cover-up. The American people need to know the truth. Listen to Who Killed JFK on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mary K. McBrayer, host of the podcast, The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. I write about True Crime, which means I live inside the research wormhole, but I'm not

necessarily interested in the headline grabbing elements, the blood, and the gore, all of that. I'm more interested in the people behind these stories, and what we can learn by looking at their experiences. You can meet me every week on the greatest true crime stories ever told, where I dig into crimes where a woman is not just a victim. She might be the detective, the lawyer, the witness, the coroner, the criminal, or some combination of these roles. I delve into the good, the bad, the difficult, and all the nuance I can find. Because these are the stories we need to know to understand the intersection of society, justice, and the fascinating workings of the human psyche. Listen to the greatest true Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Um, so Lee, how long have you been doing this from the beginning to now? How many years? It's been since 2006. 2006. Wow, 16 years. So, I mean, it's a thing now. Yeah. Have you got a favorite success story? Have you got the story of that person that came into the program that you actually wondered

if they'd ever be able to make it? What's your favorite story? My favorite story is actually it's turned into a documentary. Really? Yeah, tell me about it. Larry Larry Williams Larry is someone that came into our program. He did 42 years in prison. That sounds like a murder route. That was a murder And he came into our program. He's 60, 60 something years old now. When he come, when did how old was he when he came? 22, 21. Wow. He did 40 something years and 42 years. And so he comes into our program, vital science.

This dude was institutionalized. He, let's set that for a second. Okay. There's a lot of listeners. They've seen movies, whatever, and they hear 42 years. And I think we get disincentized to the fact that when you're in prison, you were, you were disassociated with culture. Mm-hmm. And so I've heard the stories of people coming out of prison and it's just as crazy that they don't even know what a cell phone is really. Yeah, this is not a used one. They don't even know what that is. There are no pay phones anymore.

The world is, I asked a group of 60, 20 something year olds not long ago in a speech. Who could name me one member of the group of people that bombed the World Trade Center in the Pentagon? One. There went a single 20 year old in the room, they could name one. Wow. Yeah. They could tell you anything about it. And that was on the 20th anniversary of it. Wow.

So if in 20 years, which is a generation, we can have 60 college kids that can't even tell you one thing about the most destructive thing to happen to our country since Pearl Harbor and that collective consciousness evaporates in only 20 years Think of what society changes in 40 years when you're Wow, so this cat come so what I'm saying to you is is when you hear a person comes out present 42 years They're coming into a world that might as well be Mars. Absolutely. They really are there and he came into it. You can see it in the documentary, but he came into it Not knowing what a computer with a mouse is. Yeah, a mouse. There's a perfect thing. Everybody doesn't about this He thinks a mouse is a great thing. Maybe she's cheese. I don't hold in a wall.

He really doesn't understand what I'm saying. Yeah, and he got frustrated. We had a mentor coaching him and showing him what a Mouses is and trying to get him his Facebook setup and all this stuff on social media and getting him. And he said, I'm frustrated. I clicked this, clicked the right button, the left button. You know, he's like, I wanna go back to prison. You know, it's easier.

You know, I don't have to be rejected. I don't have to, you know, people thinking crazy about me. I don't understand the technology. I know where I am. You know, you have a name in prison, they respect you in prison, they're family members. And so I've, you know, him coming out and the documentary is called First Week Out. First Week Out.

And they just, I don't like it in that group. They had a great job in putting together this documentary and it's winning all kinds of festivals of awards. And they just show his first week out. He's got a job, he's got a house and he gets a job, he's got transportation to his job, he's doing well. He's right now.

He's graduated from the program, he's got his own apartment, he's got his own car, you know, he's got a nice car, he's got it own car, you know, he's got a nice car. He's got it, it's still at the job, working, working on his retirement, playing, you know, benefits and all that. And so he's, and now he's in a documentary just winning all kinds of awards. He's goes to our church and he's in church, he's doing, he's doing the right thing. He's mentoring young people. How does he?

How does he... I should be asking him this question, probably not you, but I'm searching for the right words to ask this question in a respectful way. He murdered somebody. How does he balance this right chance and this new opportunity and this life he's starting to be able to live with the fact that he took one from somebody who won't ever have that chance?

Does he, do these guys, once they finally get off the grip of the drugs and the life modes and they go through a program because there's a self awakening that happens and things like this, I believe, and I think people start to look at themselves differently. And they know where they're looking at when it's them and them in the mirror. How does it guy like that balance this amazing opportunity, even this latent life that he has, and the love he's been shown by guys like you and mentors and teachers and everything. And then he, wait, then he recognizes, you know, despite it all, I took a lot. I mean, do, do guys still struggle with that?

I guess what I'm saying. Well, in the documentary, it, it addresses a lot of that guilt and shame and remorse. And even he makes a statement from all the stuff he goes through when he comes out still after he had done 42 years with society says he needs to pay his 42 years of his life. He said, I wonder if I'm forgiven. My God. Wow. I'm not sure if I'm forgiven by him. And so there's a sense of how can you even forgive yourself? How could you forgive yourself?

So they still deal with these. The strommel. There's so much trauma goes on and mental illness that takes place by going through this time. In fact, I heard a veteran say, you get more trauma going to prison than you do fighting in a war. Because there's a war in there. It's a war. And they see a lot of stuff that average people shouldn't see. There's nobody.

There's nobody should see. It's traumatizing. And so he's learned to forgive himself when we attach them to a family. There's a Caucasian family, this is African American guy. We attach them to this older Caucasian family that fell in love with him. Wow. I certified the father of this family as a coach and we try to attach them to families

so they can feel like they have family. This family has taken them in. This white Caucasian family. This is an ex-mercine. They're older, no children, no young people. And they got, they got the ability to help them. They take this guy to go get his car fix. They take this guy to, to go get his, trying to get his benefits.

They're, they're walking alongside him. And I imagine they're happy to do that. If it's long as he meets him halfway and keeps you on the right thing. Exactly. And Larry is an independent kind of guy and he doesn't like people that try to help him too much.

I get it. He's like, no, that's okay, that's it. They want to. And I told him, Larry is not about you. Yeah, you have to be as cheerful receivers. Yeah. Yeah. Are you helping other people letting them help you? You know, they feel good about helping you a guy like that. I Hear that and my heart breaks for anybody who wonders if God could forgive him and I always remind myself that you know

David took his most trusted lieutenants wife and had an adulterer and then to save face killed her husband and was still forgiven. And if you can do that, God can forgive you. And so Larry is going to be fine. He's learning. He's learning that God has forgiven him. He's going to be fine. But that's interesting that they, I would, I would carry that gift with me.

Yeah. I mean, I would, I would carry that gift with me. But the amazing thing is you take a guy who's been a jail for 42 years, exits into our society with, to him looks like Mars. Right. And in only a few years, he's got his own place, got his own car, got a job, made friends, joined a church. Yeah. It's an amazing story. And they love him on his job. And that can be done all over this country. Yes, he could. And we can change the reentry industry tremendously.

If we just knew how to do these things, because I think most people just think, lock them up. But really, they're coming back out, 95% of them coming right back out of living right next to it. And why not change that narrative and do something different? And we do that. We're gonna create a better society, less victims.

That's how I look at it. You got less victims as you have the people that's committed. You're less tax dollars going to support prisons instead of social programs that can help us all. You got it. That's right, man. Here's the thing. I got something called rena state, my life coaches.

I certify our life coaches. They take the same blueprint and they're doing it all over the country. Yeah, that's my question. So this is an army of normal folks. And the idea here is, is to tell really cool stories, not of people whose names you've heard and the news and movies and TVs, but really cool stories are just guys like you and me, just normal folks, who happened to be involved and been fortunate enough to do some pretty extraordinary things. And the idea is to share those stories, right, because they're uplifting and interesting. And I think we all have conflict in our lives and the conflict of you with the guy in Tulsa

and the things we've learned about ourselves who those conflicts are interesting. But the idea is that somebody sitting in four columns right now, here's the story and says, I could do that. You know, that reaches my heart, I could do that. And your story may reach some people, other people's story may reach others. But, but to me, this one seems like a no-brainer. It works. It's self-sufficient. And you can scale it. Absolutely. And how does,

if somebody hears that and wants to do that, how do they do that? Who do they call? What do they do? The portal to getting into this whole system is becoming a certified life coach. That's it. That's it. If you want to do this kind of work, you got to learn to practice.

You got to learn, and when you become a certified life coach, I have something called cultural prerunuer. That's the next level. Once you learn the skill of coaching, learn the industry, learn what we do, learn the best practices because I'm known as a reentry expert throughout the country. I'm teaching them all the stuff I do. I'm giving it away. Right? Literally, they have to pay for the certification. Takes some money to do that. But after that, I'm giving you the blueprint to the housing,

to the transportation, to the staff and agency, to how to build communities within your community. And you're saying this is being done currently in other places right now? Washington DC, L.A. Texas. Are the people doing them all X felons, or are they just some people that just want to be. Both, both.

So you don't necessarily have to be an ex-fellon to do it. Just somebody that cares about. Just somebody that cares. And that's why I teach them the coach approach. Because you don't have to be an expert with somebody else's life to be a coach. A mentor is different. A coach is somebody that's asked, good questions, they're good listener, they got the process, right? You don't have to have had that experience

because that person is an expert with their life, right? All you're doing is bringing it out and let them see themselves and make better decisions. That's all. And so they take all of that and take the whole blueprint and duplicate it. That's all that. And it works throughout the whole country that way.

Vital signs. Vital signs. Vital signs is doing the work. Vital signs. Yeah. So if I'm the guy in Little Rock, Arkansas, and I wanna start a vital signs thing in my community, you know, how do I reach out to Lee to find out? Lee, how'd you do it and to get in touch with you?

Can you share that? Sure. Yeah, they can go to our website LeeRobbins.com. You spell that L-E-E-R-O-B-B-I-N-S.com. You go there? That is the portal to it all. I mean, if you want to know something about the staffing, the coaching, the transportation called uplift, which means Uber Plus lift. You go to all of those, you go to that one site

and it'll take you to all the other sites. Lee, can you imagine if every community that had a prison in it took five. Let's just say it on a small level, five prisoners, five former prisoners, and put them through the system, how we could change the entire face of today's recidivision. It would be phenomenal. Lee Robbins, it has been an absolute pleasure. And it's, there's no doubt you are, you are a normal dude who's been through an extraordinary life. And the work you're doing is it just furthers to advance an army of normal folks trying to do amazing things in our country

and has been an honor to spend time with you today. Thank you so much. Just likewise, here with you and all the stuff that you've done, I'm amazed and just blessed at seeing your work and your documentary and everything you're doing for the inner city. Thank you so much. I appreciate you.

And I appreciate all of you for joining us this week. Y'all, if it's pastor Lee or another guest has inspired you in general or better yet to take action by starting a vital signs in your community or something else entirely, please let me know. I'd love to hear about it. You can write me anytime at billatnormalfokes.us. And I'm telling you, I will respond. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends and on social. Subscribe to the podcast, rate, and review it. Become a premium member at normalfokes.us. All these things that will help us grow.

An army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week. Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of a new podcast called Tosh Show. Are we interviewing people that I find interesting? So not celebrities. And certainly not comedians. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling. But mostly, it will be about being a working mother. If you're a professional, you're not a professional. You're a professional.

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