An Army of Normal Folks - Pat Koch: The Chief Elf of Santa Claus, Indiana (Pt 2)

Episode Date: April 16, 2024

Pat Koch and an army of figurative elves respond to upwards of 30,000 letters per year that are addressed to Santa Claus and miraculously arrive in their town of Santa Claus, Indiana. No one is paying them to do this, they're just normal folks doing the right thing because they can. And Pat is officially the "Chief Elf" of the town!Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an Army of Normal folks and we continue now with part two of our conversation with Pat Cooke right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. I'm Hannah Storm and my podcast NBA DNA with Hannah Storm digs deep into the history of professional basketball along with my own as one of the first female sportscasters. Now let's get you up to speed on what else happened around the NBA today. We talked to all sorts of people I interacted with from from Dr. J to Charles Barkley, and recap iconic moments. Yes, he's got it.

Here he comes. Rock the baby to sleep and slam dunk. As well as some of the wild stories behind the scenes. We were like, what? What are we in for? The scoreboard crashes before we even tip a game off. Today the NBA is a global sports and entertainment giant. Players are multimillionaires and cultural icons.

Igadala to Curry, back to Igadala, up for the layup. Oh, blocked by James. LeBron James. And these stories are about how we got here, both on and off the court. And what's next? Listen to NBA DNA with Hannah Storm on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Martha Stewart, and we're back with a new season of my podcast. This season will be even more revealing and more personal, with more entrepreneurs, more trailblazers, more live events, more Martha, and more questions from you. I'm talking to my cosmetic dermatologist, Dr. Dan Belkin, about the secrets behind my skincare. Walter Isaacson, about the geniuses who change the world. Encore Jane, about creating a billion dollar startup. Dr. Elisa Pressman about the five basic strategies to help parents raise good humans. Florence Fabricant about the authenticity

in the world of food writing. Be sure to tune in to season two of the Martha Stewart podcast. Listen and subscribe to the Martha Stewart podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The big take from Bloomberg News brings you what's shaping the world's economies with the smartest and best informed business reporters around the world. Western nations like the US and Europe. Mexico will likely have its first female president. And then you have China. And help you understand

what's happening, what it means, and why it matters. He'll get his yo-yos to Europe in time, but the longer this drags on, the more worried he's getting. They knew that they needed to do this as fast as they possibly could to get a drug on the market as fast as they could. I'm David Gura. I'm Sarah Holder. I'm Saleh Emosin. We cover the stories behind what's moving money in markets.

Basically everyone was expecting, if not a calamity, certainly a recession. But the problem is that that paperwork, as our reporting showed, is fake. Someone who's covering the market, I'm often very worried about an imminent collapse. I'm thinking about it quite often. Listen to the big take on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So your dad was Santa Claus until 1988 is what you said? 84. My brother passed away in 83 and he passed away in 84.

Well, Santa Claus may pass, but Christmas doesn't. And I guess that's where Pat becomes Mrs. Miss Claus or chief elf or what, what happens? Tell you weren't going to let this legacy of children's letters coming to Santa Claus, Indiana die with your father. And in fact, everything you've done since then in a beautiful way, honors your father's legacy. Cause had he not picked up the first bag in his car from the first postmaster and decided these letters

weren't going to go unanswered this thing wouldn't have started but I guess you picked it up is that how it worked? Yes, actually I started when I was probably 12 years old my brother and I had a little Actually, I started when I was probably 12 years old. My brother and I had a little problem with dad being Santa, but we believed in Santa Claus. We just thought he was Santa Claus and everybody. Why not? Why wouldn't you? I mean, that's your childhood, right? Right. I mean, I grew up with bells and suits and boots

and sleighs and all of that. And we'd come to the grade school. I want that little girl with the brown eyes in the front row to sing a song for me. It would just, he'd always do that. Always had to sing a song. But anyway, yes, he passed away in 84. And the last time he was Santa Claus, he was at,

the park became Holiday World in 83 or 84, one of those years, I'm bad with numbers. He was Santa there as it was Santa Claus land and now Holiday World and has grown much very, very big. So he was on stage when they were issuing a first issue stamp at Santa Claus. Behind the scenes with him, he was he was 90. And he walked out on the stage.

He always rang his bells and said a big ho ho ho. The whole whole theater stood on their hands, stood up and clapped. I think just to honor him and as old as he was and that was the last time he appeared as Santa and it was like it made me cry. But he told me as I was taking care of him in his old age, Pat don't let the people put in the paper that Santa Claus died. I was Santa Claus, but somebody will carry on and Santa Claus is forever. And they did not put that in the paper and that, you know, that's a good thing. But had that time. And so you pick it and you picked it up from there. Well, I've never been Santa Claus, but I have a book called Santa's daughter.

And I'm in a Santa Claus suit on the front of that book. But what I did do was carry on the letter writing, which I started helping him when I was about 12th. Then of course the 10 years I was gone, I didn't do it, came back and immediately picked it up again. And then, um, at immediately picked it up again. And then at some point it was organized into the Santa's Elves Incorporated because Bill, it has become,

we did this past season, we called from Thanksgiving to Christmas over 23,000 letters. So the- 23,000 letters that have to be answered? Yes, yes. And some years it's 30,000. that have to be answered? Yes, yes. And some years it's 30,000. And the post-

You must have literally an army of folks. I know it's a little shameless plug, but you must have an army of folks answering these letters in and around your town. We have volunteers and they're wonderful. And we have some people that come every day. We have some people who come once. We have people who come twice a week.

We have some groups that come after work, maybe. And we have in a little room that only holds 14 people, but we're very organized. And- How does it work? If my kid, when my kid was five years old from Memphis back when one of them was five, if they wrote a letter to Santa Claus and put a stamp on it, does it just get to you guys somehow? Does the post office honor that tradition? How does it work?

That's how it works. No kidding. It works. If it says the guy in the big red suit, if it says North Pole, you know, it's that Christmas season. If we could be that way all year long, wouldn't it be wonderful? I mean, everybody along the way will add an address, will add PO Box One, Santa Claus, Indiana, or they will, they help. It's an amazing phenomenon. And when you asked about the Army, this, I have a, well, my daughter and her daughter,

so it's, they're helping. We usually start early before Thanksgiving so that we don't get a big backlog. But I have to tell you, we have four form letters, plus the letter my father wrote long ago, but it's in cursive, so we can't always use that. But we have letters that are, Dear friend, dear little friend,

Merry Christmas and dear. And they have certain messages in them. Every letter that comes from the child is opened, it is read. Then the volunteer picks the letter that they think would be best for that child. They put the child's name in the salutation, dear friend Susie, comma, and

then at the bottom of the letter they put a personal note message that picks up from something in their letter so they know Santa read it like if they say my sister and I had a fight yesterday and I hate her. Santa wants you to love your sister, please be good to your sister. So the child knows that Santa read their letter. So it doesn't mean everybody sits down and writes a whole letter because that's impossible. We tried email one year, it doesn't work. I won't do that because it just says the name, the age, and what they want. And we want a letter

because that child learns to write a letter. That child, they pour out their hearts in those letters. What does it, you know, listen, as a father of four, five, six and seven year olds will say things that absolutely floor you, that you're like, where did that come from? And it reminds me of like when in kindergarten, first grade, the teachers would send home artwork or little things that the kids said or whatever, and you read them. And it's just like, what? How does my child even know that? So given that kind of background as a dad.

I mean, I can only imagine what's written in some of these letters, and I'm sure some of them are funny, but I also got to think some of them are just heartbreaking. And what what what do you hear in these letters? Give give us a sense of of what you're meaning when you're reading. I'll start with sad and ending with funny. We have, as I said, a book. It's from 1930 to 19.

I can't remember. We need another book. But it's a history of toys, children, how they wrote what they wanted, if you see that book. The letters, yes. We cry. We laugh. We do not say ever, ever, and I have rules. You never say Santa will send you the, you want a puppy? You'll get a puppy. No, no, no, no.

We never mention what they ask for because we don't know and we're not going to promise something. But they will say things like, my grandma's dying of cancer, Santa, can you send some love to my grandma? Or I'm living with my dad, I wanna live with my mom. Or, you know, just things like that, family things that make you very, very sad. One little boy said, you know, I'm not very smart, but I wish people wouldn't think that I'm dumb

One child wrote my mother works so much. I know she's doing it for us, but I wish she'd be home with us more They really do they do tell us So many things and we share that because that I think that what, if people come in one day to do one letter, they say they're hooked and they come back because you feel like you're really doing, and some mothers send us pictures of the child opening the letter. The letter has my father's picture on it and a sleigh and Santa Claus and then even the envelope has his picture on it. So they know it's coming from Santa, and then they get a special stamp on it

at the post office that it has changed every year. There's a contest in school for artists, student artists to paint a, it has a name, but it's a big stamp that cancels that, and it's always very Christmassy. So that's the other part. We have to sit down, we have to open the letters. No, the man that gets the mail opens them.

He puts families together. So if there's three kids in the family, you had four, four kids in the family, he staples those together. So we are sure that each child gets a different letter, that we don't send the same letter to four kids. We're very careful about all of that.

We'll be right back. I'm Hannah Storm and my podcast NBA DNA with Hannah Storm digs deep into the history of professional basketball along with my own as one of the first female sportscasters. Now let's get you up to speed on what else happened around the NBA today. We talked to all sorts of people I interacted with from Dr. J to Charles Barkley and recap iconic moments. Yes he's got it. Here he comes. We rock the baby to sleep and slam dunk. As well as some of the wild stories behind the scenes. We were like what? What are we in for? The scoreboard crashes before we even tip a game off. Today the NBA is a global sports and entertainment giant. Players are multi-millionaires and cultural icon. And these stories are

about how we got here both on and off the court. And what's next? Listen to NBA DNA with Hannah Storm on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Martha Stewart, and we're back with a new season of my podcast. This season will be even more revealing and more personal, with more entrepreneurs, more trailblazers, more live events, more Martha, and more questions from you. I'm talking to my cosmetic dermatologist, Dr. Dan Belkin, about the secrets behind my skincare. Walter Isaacson, about the geniuses who change the world.

Encore Jane, about creating a billion dollar startup. Dr. Elisa Pressman about the five basic strategies to help parents raise good humans. Florence Fabricant about the authenticity in the world of food writing. Be sure to tune in to season two of the Martha Stewart podcast. Listen and subscribe to the Martha Stewart podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The big take from Bloomberg News brings you what's shaping the world's economies with the smartest and best informed business reporters around the world. Western nations like the US and Europe.

Mexico will likely have its first female president. And then you have China. And help you understand what's happening, what it means, and why it matters. He'll get his yo-yos to Europe in time. But the longer this drags on, the more worried he's getting. They knew that they needed to do this as fast as they possibly could to get a drug on the market as fast as they could. I'm David Dura. I'm Sarah Holder. I'm Saleh Emosin. We cover the stories behind what's moving money in markets.

Basically everyone was expecting, if not a calamity, certainly a recession. But the problem is that that paperwork, as our reporting showed, is fake. To someone who's covering the market, I'm often very worried about an imminent collapse. I'm thinking about it quite often. Listen to the big take on the iHeart radio app, very worried about an imminent collapse. I'm thinking about it quite often.

Listen to the big take on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or a sense, you're being Santa Claus and answering Santa Claus' letter in the Spirit of Christmas and everything, but in some of the letters you're talking about, you're also just trying to reassure a child that there's love in the world. Yes, yes. Santa loves you, or Mrs. Claus sends love. The elves are so busy working, but they are doing it because they are hoping you have a wonderful Christmas. We do spend a lot of time.

We ask, what do you think I should say to this? Of course, I've done it so long that it's not hard to think of something to say, but the funny ones, the great ones, and you'll, I hope you'll really enjoy this as much as I did. This little boy said, dear Santa, please make my dad smarter. What do you say to that? Sorry. Your dad's a Dumbo. We did the best we could.

Send another letter next year. We'll try to give you what you want. We got a letter from a child and I saw that it had something in it. Now we get gumdrops, we get chewing gum, we get candy, we get pictures, wedding pictures, we get the shopping list, we get the bill from the plumber. But this child, I opened it up, no, it was opened. Ed, this man gets the mail every morning, goes through it,

puts it together as I told you. They go in stacks of local, oh, by the way, from all the countries in the world, we get letters. Every morning. Yeah, I was gonna ask you, do you get them from, you don't just get them from the United States, Russia, Ukraine, um, Belarus, Germany, did you get any this year from children from Ukraine? Yes.

Did any of them say, would you make them stop biting or any of that kind of thing? No, no, but we have always gotten letters from Russia. Last year those letters were returned. Were returned? They were not given to the children. They were not, they were not. The Russian government wouldn't allow your letters to get to the Russians. I'm supposing. Yeah. That's that's there you go again with the army of people.

We have a couple that live in Jasper and about half an hour away. And that is their ministry to answer the foreign learners. Now that postage is a dollar and something. Our postage bill is 18 to 20 thousand dollars a year and that is covered by donations if possible and just get it done. So 20,000 to 23,000 to 30,000 letters a year. How many people are volunteering to answer all of these letters for, and it's not really an organization,

it's for your city and your community and your culture. How many people are doing it? Well, you know, when people ask that question, I guess someday I need to count. I don't count. We have a room, it's the back room of that original post office building. It has one table for eight and another table that would seat six. So it's people, 14 people can sit.

As I said, it's we have become an electronic, like your Alex knows, and I don't, but our wonderful director at this point, Kathleen, started Sign Up Genius. So if somebody wants to volunteer to do letters, they will sign up on Sign Up Genius, and she knows then on December 12th, we already have 10 people. Or she knows that on December 12th we already have 10 people or she knows that on December 13th we only have two so can you come on December 13th so it's it's getting better and better organized all the time

so that we have consistency and I'm called the Chief Elf, yes. And I'm very particular about those letters because they have to be done with respect. And we can't say something stupid or silly. And we did have that happen one time. Somebody can't say, well, you don't believe this, do you? Because somebody did. The mother called it back. Really, to my knowledge, just once. But I go through at random letters just to be sure

that they're all being done with respect and properly. So this army of people, what happened this year, I have, it was, God bless the post office department, they, the post office in Santa Claus is overwhelmed because people come here to get that special stamp for their Christmas cards and their Christmas letters, and then we come in with boxes full of letters to go out by two o'clock in the afternoon, they have to be there, ready to go out by two o'clock in the afternoon, they have to be there, ready to go. And so they're so overwhelmed, but the post office department this year was really behind.

I don't know if it was, well, I understood COVID. And then, well, on the 29th, we usually have a date we call a cutoff date because the letters will not get to the child before Christmas if we mailed them out, say on the 23rd and it's going to Oregon or Montana. Right. So we have to have a cutoff date.

Well we were getting letters on the 29th that had been mailed on the 13th. Yeah, unfortunately, I think a lot of people have experienced that with the post office since COVID. So we have gotten, our director said, I'm going to design a postcard that's going to be cheaper for us. So the child will receive a pretty Christmasy postcard saying your letter arrived after Santa had gone back to the North Pole, we're very sorry. We hope you have a Merry Christmas. But we can't send a Merry Christmas letter out to somebody that's not gonna get it until after Christmas.

This is a whole, it's a whole shoot and match organization you guys got going on there to answer all these letters. Yes, yes. So at what point during this entire process of reassuring kids, of giving kids love, of trying to make sure children who want to write to Santa Claus get an answer from Santa Claus, Indiana, which is all idyllic and fairy telly, but it's real. And it's so heartwarming. Did you decide Santa Claus needs a Santa Claus museum? Oh, well, it was in 2006 and I look back at that

and it's 24, that's been 18 years ago. I suddenly realized as I got older how many people didn't know how the town was named or why it was named or who lived here. Who were our first inhabitants? Who built this little town? Where did they come from? How did Santa Claus land start? My husband and I created a gated community called Christmas Lake Village, in order to draw people in to help grow the community, so that we'd have better schools and so that we would have more population

if the county was dying and it needed help. All those things, we, all those things went into, oh, people would say Christmas Lake that we developed has a very large lake, two small lakes, a golf course, tennis courts, playground areas. It's gated and it's beautiful and it brought people to live there, especially now. We have so many people from California all over. It's just amazing because we're in a little pocket of the world here. It's just a little different. I'm not saying it's perfect. No, not at all.

There's crime, but not hugely so. And it's an idyllic kind of place. And I'm hoping to write the history of all that. That's why I started the museum, to preserve that history of the town, of the village, of the park, of Christmas Lake, so that at some time after I'm gone,

that we'll still live on and people will have the truth about things. Because if you don't have that document saying how the town was named, there's a legend that's beautiful, but it's not the truth. And your museum straightens that out. Yes. So is because it's called Santa Claus and it's got Christmas Lake

and obviously the Christmas theme that is permeating the culture, is it Christmas all the time there? Well, everything is Christmasassy and that's okay. We're still growing. We're just a small town, 2,500 maybe. That's because of the village. And we have now two high schools in the county and several elementary schools that are very good, by the way. My goal is to retain the small town, wonderful atmosphere or culture that exists there. Go to the high school basketball games and cheer on the team

no matter how old you are or how long it was since you've graduated. Have turtle soup parties and have, you know, it's that small town stuff that I think really binds people together and creates a special kind of culture. So like for my museum, it's very quaint. It has the original post office. It has the original church, which was 1880 with all the original, everything in it is original. Absolutely beautiful with the kerosene lamps

and the organ that you had to pump with your feet to make it go. And we had a program this year and I sang Silent Night in German. And two people came up to me and said, now I really feel the spirit of Christmas and that little church in the dark with those lamps, Stille Nacht in German is pretty special. And to keep that special feeling, I think not neon, not glittery stuff.

Well, we have Christmas lights all over all the time, but you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. I do. And I can't think of any better person with any greater perspective to be answering the calls of children for all over the world to Santa Claus. I dedicate my life to it in November and December as my daughter and her daughters, she has three daughters and they've grown up helping. We don't allow the letters to leave the post office because you have to be very careful because of the culture today that somebody doesn't get a hold of an address or a name. So we do everything there, but I'm very proud of the fact that they have been very involved.

And my other daughter is in Indianapolis, which is of course the state capital. And she and her daughter came down and spent a weekend and helped. I forgot to say that teachers love to use this as a method of teaching children to write letters. We get big boxes of 100 letters from a grade school. Unbelievable.

We'll be right back. I'm Hannah Storm and my podcast, NBA DNA with with Hannah Storm digs deep into the history of professional basketball along with my own as one of the first female sportscasters. Now let's get you up to speed on what else happened around the NBA today. We talked to all sorts of people I interacted with from Dr. J to Charles Barkley and recap iconic moments. Yes, he's got it. Here he comes. Way rock the baby to sleep and slam dunk. from Jay to Charles Barkley, and recap iconic moments. Yes, he's got it.

Here he comes. Way rock the baby to sleep and slam dunk. As well as some of the wild stories behind the scenes. We were like, what? What are we in for? The scoreboard crashes before we even tip a game off. Today, the NBA is a global sports and entertainment giant. Players are multimillionaires and cultural icons. Igadala to Curry, we got here, both on and off the court. And what's next?

Listen to NBA DNA with Hannah Storm on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Martha Stewart, and we're back with a new season of my podcast. This season will be even more revealing and more personal, with more entrepreneurs, more trailblazers, more live events, more Martha. And more questions from you. I'm talking to my cosmetic dermatologist, Dr. Dan Belkin, about the secrets behind my skincare. Walter Isaacson, about the geniuses who changed the world.

Encore Jane, about creating a billion dollar startup. Dr. Elisa Pressman, about the five basic strategies to help parents raise good humans. Florence Fabricant about the authenticity in the world of food writing. Be sure to tune in to season two of the Martha Stewart podcast. Listen and subscribe to the Martha Stewart podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The big take from Bloomberg News brings you what's shaping the world's economies with the smartest and best informed business reporters around the world.

Western nations like the US and Europe. Mexico will likely have its first female president. And then you have China. And help you understand what's happening, what it means, and why it matters. He'll get his yo-yos to Europe in time, but the longer this drags on, the more worried he's getting. They knew that they needed to do this as fast as they possibly could to get a drug on the market as fast as they could. I'm David Dura. I'm Sarah Holder. I'm Saleh Amosin. We cover the stories behind what's moving money and markets.

Basically, everyone was expecting, if not a calamity, certainly a recession. But the problem is that that paperwork, as our reporting showed, is fake. To someone who's covering the market, I'm often very worried about an imminent collapse. I'm thinking about it quite often. Listen to The Big Take on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The show is an army of normal folks, and we have covered a lot of heavy topics here and then lighter topics.

This is such a feel good, warm topic story. One of the things I hear a lot, Pat, that really frustrates me, and it doesn't frustrate me at the people that ask it, it frustrates me sometimes because I'm not sure I always have a great answer. And the question is, I love that story. I love her story, his story. I love the podcast about this person or that person, what they're doing. And it's so

inspiring. And it makes me want to get involved, but I just don't know how. And I get people's inhibitions. I get people's reticence. I get people's reluctance and fears. And unfortunately in our society, I get people's desire, not desire, but inclination to withdraw from a fear of being judged or a fear of being seen in one way or another. And in my estimation, those reticence, that reluctance, that fear prohibits personal growth and most importantly prohibits this army of normal folks seeing areas of need and filling it.

folks seeing areas of need and filling it. Pat, you're 92 and a half. You come from- I can celebrate my 90th birthday because it was during COVID. You're 92 and a half. You're the daughter of a father who served in World War I who built boats that served our country in World War II, who stopped by the postmaster not long after the Great Depression because he had a heart to answer

children's letters who simply wanted love or boots or food, whose legacy is now literally almost a hundred years later, what do you say to someone with all of your experience and all of the legacy from your father to you to now your daughters and to what you're doing to put a smile on a child's face from as far away as Russia and China and the Ukraine by simply taking the time to answer a letter they wrote to Santa Claus. What do you say to somebody who says, I really want to do something good, but I don't know how? I really want to do something good.

I say, take a risk. Do it. Just step out there, huh? Yes. Get out there, but research it. Be sure it's real. You know what I mean about that, that the money is being used properly or whatever you're going to try to do. Who are the people involved? How's it being run, all those sorts of things. But if you don't do that, good things aren't going to keep happening. I think we have to be willing,

as you said, to look foolish. Why in the world are you sitting here doing this? To make mistakes, but to give and keep giving and keep giving and keep giving. And the happiness, and that's, see, that's what my dad saw. My dad saw the joy in those children's eyes when he was sent on that ship in 1914. And that caused that ripple of stuff that happened and made him Santa Jim all his life. People say, oh, he was the real Santa. He was Santa. He knew several languages. I mean, I could, you know, I loved him so much and I have him in the museum. I saved everything about him, his suit, his boots, his big belt, his cane, his mittens. The book he read from the night before Christmas, they'd add paper clips in to where to read to the children. And he's sitting there

behind the mural that was at Santa Claus land. So, you know, they come up and they say, I, that's the way I saw it when I was a little kid. So there's just so many ways to make people happy. And it's, it, I know when you know that you're rewarded a hundred times over. I have said that every single time. And I love that I didn't have to be the one that said it, but you said it. And honestly, Pat, what your response was is not at all surprising. Take a risk from a 16 year old who wanted more education and got out of bus and showed up somewhere because she wanted to expand her education to come full circle to

the unbelievable life you've led. I guess take a risk is just second nature to Pat Cook. Yes. And I keep saying it's wonderful to grow old because now it doesn't matter what somebody thinks. Okay, I got one more question. I'm going to throw you a softball and we're going to end with it. We live in ever increasingly difficult times. We have geopolitical issues. We have the, and we're not going to get into the politics of it, but the fact is we have three things going on in the Middle East with Israel and Palestine and Syria and with the Houthis. We've got the Russia Ukraine

thing. We've got really domestic discord politically where none of the frontiers have more than 45% approval rating, which says a lot about the division. We now have media outlets who are heavily incented by power and money to continue to craft narratives that divide us that are often inaccurate. I think we are surrounded by a lot of people who have a lot of power and gain and control power by continuing to scare us by the boogeyman from one side of the aisle of the other. And we have arguments and concerns over global warming and what's causing it. And I mean, I really can go on and on about all of the things that face we humans

today and could argue that some of them teeter on being existential. But I can also tell you at Christmas time, when I'm with my children and my wife, it doesn't seem to matter quite as much. But there are skeptics out there who will say, the spirit of Christmas is past us. What do you say to that, Pap? The spirit of Christmas is forever, and it will live forever, because good overcomes evil. I love that, Pat. And I'll tell you this. I love the fact that there are 23 to 30,000 children every single year that write a letter to Santa Claus, often not about getting a Game Boy, but more about wanting something for their siblings or their parents. There's an army of volunteers

in a little place called Santa Claus, Indiana, that put a smile on the face of a child at Christmas time and reassure them that they're being heard and loved. And that is the spirit of Christmas. Is it not? It is, it is. I have a plaque and it says, keep the spirit of Christmas all year long.

With enough, see all this would be over if we had the spirit of Christmas all the time. Because we're happy and we're cheerful and we're giving and we're caring and we're outside of ourselves and especially with children. If we could do that, it would be a wonderful world. Said from the chief elf from Santa Claus, Indiana, to her and her army of elves put

smiles on children's faces across the globe at Christmas time. That cook you are phenomenal. And I just really can't wait to see what you're doing in 15 or 20 years from now because you have so much more work to do. I do. That's what I say. I have to keep I have so much to do, very, very busy. Pat, it has been an absolutely pleasure.

Thank you for joining me. And in the middle of a year, Merry Christmas, Pat. Merry Christmas to you. Keep the spirit and believe, believe, Keep believing. Thank you, Pat. And thank you for joining us this week. If Pat Cooke or another guest has inspired you in general, or better yet, to take action, please let me know. I'd love to hear about it. You can write me anytime at Bill at NormalFolks.us and I will respond. And if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends and on social. Subscribe to our podcast, rate and review it. Become a premium member at NormalFolks.us.

All these things that will help us grow. An army normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week. I'm Hannah Storm and my new podcast, NBA DNA with Hannah Storm, chronicles my six decades in professional basketball. From growing up in the sport to becoming one of sports TV's first female broadcasters. Join me as I dig deep into the game's history, unearth some wild stories, and talk to my friends from the world of basketball, from Dr. J to Charles Barkley.

It's been a wild ride, and now I get to take you with me. Listen to NBA DNA with Hannah Storm on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Martha Stewart and we're back with a new season of my podcast. This season will be even more revealing and more personal with more entrepreneurs, more live events, and more questions from you. I'm talking to my cosmetic dermatologist, Dr. Dan Belkin, about the secrets behind my

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