An Army of Normal Folks - Scott Strode: Rising From The Ashes… Together (Pt 2)

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

After struggling with addiction for almost 2 decades, Scott Strode found hope while ice climbing. The healing power of nature and community radically transformed his life. And Scott couldn’t not share his secret with the rest of the world too. The Phoenix was born and this year their sober movement is expected to serve more than 400,000 people!Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an Army of Normal folks and we continue now with part two of our conversation with Scott Strode right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Hi, I'm Laura VanderKimm. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker. And I'm Sarah Hart Unger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, and course creator. We are two working parents who love our careers and our families. On the best of both worlds podcast each week, we share stories of how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.

We talk all things planning, time management, organization, and more. We share what's worked for us and our listeners as we're building our careers and raising our families. We're here to cheer you on as you figure out how to make your days even more amazing. From figuring out childcare to mapping out long-term career goals, we want you to get the most out of life.

Listen to Best of Both Worlds every Tuesday on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Good song. The Johnny Carson theme, right? Hey, who wrote that? Skip, who do you think it's your buddy? Hi everyone, I'm Paul Anka. And I'm Skip Bronson. And what happens when two old friends take their decades of experience in the business and entertainment roles and sit down with our buddies? You get our way.

A brand new show from my heart podcast, where we chop it up with our pals about everything under the sun. Hear about Michael Bublé's entrance into show business and get business insight from Mark Burnett. Find out what scares my son-in-law Jason Bateman and discover the bragging rights that come with beating Michael Jordan at golf. Together we know just about everybody including sitting presidents. So join us as we ask the questions they've not been asked before. Tell it like it is and even sing a song or two. This is our podcast and we're gonna do it our way.

Listen to Our Way on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. The Black Information Network and six-time Emmy-nominated news anchor, Vanessa Tyler, welcome you to Black Land. A podcast about the ground on which the Black community stands right now. From stories about salvation and loss. They did not love themselves enough to know their HRD status,

to not pass it on to me. To dreams achieved or still yet unfulfilled. From people who have made it. We started a hospital-based violence intervention program called the IV Project and it stands for Interrupting Violence in Youthing Young Adults. To those who have made it. We started a hospital-based violence intervention program called the IV Project and it stands for Interrupting Violence in Youthing Young Adults. To those who have been left behind. But no one talks about the survivors of the gun violence and the number is rising because

the gun violence has risen. Politically, financially, emotionally, spiritually. This is where we are. This is Black Land. And one of the things that my father

said to me before he passed away, it's like almost like a prophecy. He said that I would be helping men listen to Blackland on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. So there was a really pivotal moment for you where you on like a real climb, like a serious, you got to be prepared climb that actually had a base camp type thing, which, you know, I don't where was this climb, by the way? Yeah, this is a, I think, I think if this is the story you're talking about, then I was probably in Alaska. So.

Okay. And. And Denali. You were being guided, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's it. I want you to tell the story, but I was curious.

What mountain was that? Oh, oh, this is where, yeah, this is sort of, I had, this was actually, this was actually in the Himalayan. So when I. You're kidding. No, no, this was when I got into recovery, I, you know, this is before getting out to Colorado, but I worked as an EMT because I wanted to learn EMT skills to be a better climbing partner. So I'd have some medical training.

Wow. But, um, and also I realized being EMT is a job you can just quit and go on a climbing trip and come back to. And how are you back? Yeah, because they're like, well, there's no job when you come back. And I was like, how about the midnight shift? And they're like, okay, you're good. If you can work this weekend, you know, so, but I would do that off and on.

And I'd save up money and go on these expeditions. And I went on this trip and we were climbing on this. It's an 8,000 meter peak, so it's one of the 14 highest mountains in the world. And we... This didn't just get a coat of reiki. Are you out of your clob? No. I had more than a Gore-Tex coat at this time. Yeah. Do you have to use oxygen on those farms? Some folks do. I was going to try it without it just because I had never been that high and I wanted to

sort of see what I was capable of. But we got a serious climb, bro. Yeah. This is a serious climb. With guides. With guides and the guide decided to go up with a couple of the clients, you know. And another guy, Matt Mooney, who's a friend, I befriended on the trip, I met him there. Turns out he was in recovery too. And he was from New

York and we became buds and we were like, you know what? We started to realize that we actually maybe even knew more than the guide. And we were making some better decisions about what to do in that setting. And to me, that was a huge empowerment moment. Because for years, even as I was climbing all these mountains and doing all this incredible stuff, I still didn't really believe in myself. And then I realized, like, I know what's best here. I know better than this, like, professional guide what should happen in this scenario and made decisions that, like, protected my group of friends, you know, and Matt and I started going down the mountain together.

And you were like, you were like, y'all are nuts. This is dumb. We're not going. Well, we just said, I think weather's coming. And it's pretty obvious when you look at the other mountains over there. And we're going to go down. And they went up, and we went down.

And it turns out it was good. We did. We actually were able to rescue another climber who was having some altitude sickness on the descent. Matt and I got this guy down from the side of the mountain. The guys we were climbing with spent two days in a storm at like 24,000 feet and got frostbite and some high altitude mountain sickness, cerebral edema, you know, a bunch of... They were really struggling up there and they ended up coming down.

But something changed in me then and it was like it started to really like disentangle that those negative thoughts about myself. That's a phenomenal story. I... This is a great segue to get into Phoenix and all of it. But before we go there, you know, I've watched the shows on climbing Everest and watch them on TV and the closest my fat rear end is going to get to Everest is the TV. So but it feels like you may not know a climber from Adam, but it feels like there's this code of camaraderie that no matter who you are as climbers, if someone's in distress, it's almost your job

to help them out. It's kind of like if there's a maritime signal of distress, it doesn't matter who you are, you go to try to answer that call. Is that the same thing in climbing? I mean, is that kind of code exist on the mountain? Yeah, I would say for 90% of the climbers, yes. And I think that what you're really teasing out, I think, is that in my recovery journey, ships taught

me this sense of community and this importance to be there for each other. Climbing taught me that there's a duty that we have to each other as people that I realize later is not just on a mountaintop, but it's something that if we carried with us in our every day, I think the world could start to change pretty dramatically. And that code is there when you're 4,000 feet up on the side of a cliff, for sure. Scott, you busted me. That is exactly my tease, is that I look, man, I'm for better or worse. I really, I enjoy people and I love listening to their stories,

but also like searching for motivation and where things come from. And once again, I can't help but think when you tell the story of coming down that mountain and helping a guy that was sick and trying to keep people from going into a situation where people got frostbite and your time on the boat talking about a team that it's interesting that this code of crumb rodry that you learn both on the ocean and on mountain climbing ultimately became part of the ethos of what is what you do now. And I just find it interesting and, you know, is it too far stretch what I'm saying?

Or do you think there's something to that? Oh, there's absolutely something to that. And I think even what you brought up about my dad, like me being able to see him for who he really was past past his or through, in spite of his mental health struggles. It's like the Phoenix has taught me that now, that I just see people for this innate strength that's within all of us, and this value and dignity we have as people, no matter what our circumstance at the moment. You know, sometimes life has been tough and the opportunities haven't been there and we've experienced pain and trauma and

things play out in a way that make us appear as if we are our circumstances, right? But the truth is we all have this intrinsic strength and value. And if sometimes if you just get that other stuff out of the way, it starts to become expressed. So, with over 46 million Americans living with substance use disorder and millions more affected by that, which is a perfect example of use of child with an alcoholic father-in-law and a father dealing with disorder, you're part of those affected. And typically the affected also become involved in one way or the other. So when you're talking 46 million and me and more, you're talking a huge part of our population. I think last year over a hundred thousand people died of fentanyl overdoses.

I don't know a single person. I don't know a single human being that is not affected by addiction in one way or another. A loved one, a friend, a co-worker who hasn't been touched by or seen it. Accidents, death, all of it. And I think because of that and because it's become so prevalent in society, we almost get desensitized to it, which I think is dangerous. But with all of that, faced with all of that, as you start to understand your own value and you start to really on a personal level understand the struggle with addiction because you went through it.

It's starting at such a young age, but then you start to uncover this love of outdoors and the strength that gives you and your own abilities. Now let's talk about what Phoenix was in your brain and what it's become. The amazing redemptive story of all of this struggle and self-discovery that manifests itself in Phoenix, what your idea was originally and what you did. Yeah. So, we, you know, that's a great recap and it did is set these conditions for like the Phoenix to be born.

We knew that there had to be this code of conduct or ethos that created this safe, supportive container for which Phoenix to happen. That was basically that says we're here to lift each other up, not pull each other down. And we wanted it to make it accessible to as many people as we could. So you only had to be 48 hours sober. And we wanted it to be free because we thought building community shouldn't cost money, right? Like it's something we should be able to do just as humans. And so because Ben and I had both worked out in outdoor kind of experiential education stuff, and I had been a climbing guide at this point and coached endurance athletes also, including racing myself, started bringing those activities together and offering them for free to people

in recovery. It wasn't the fastest start to it. You know, like I was, I would ride my bike around Boulder, Colorado and put up stuff on like cork boards. This was like pre, this was like in the MySpace days, you know, like I really wasn't a social media following. You didn't have some massive NGO behind you. You literally had a discipline that you developed, which is being one of

the things I say often and our listeners probably are sick of this redundancy on my part. But I believe amazing things happen when a person's discipline and passion meet at opportunity. And what you're saying to me is exactly that. You had this discipline that you developed running or not running from your addiction, but coping with an overcoming your own addiction of out being quote, outdoorsy. That's your words and climbing and your passion for it. And now you're passionate for people because you know the pain and you see an opportunity but you don't have this big order to say she's just a normal average guy run around Boulder

climbing ice stuff and whatever and you start putting court boards saying hey we got this thing called Phoenix and nobody's ever heard of but trust me we can help you. I mean what a pitch. Yeah, that's exactly how it got gone. And I got to find a guy who helped us come up with our logo and kind of fashioned it after some Native American bird imagery. And it just sort of embodied what I thought of the Phoenix. And I would go to this climbing gym in Boulder and get punch passes. and I'd stand there with my harness in my hand waiting on a Friday

night because that's what the cork board said, you know, and, and no one showed up, you know, and I stood there a lot of Friday nights like, well, well, maybe tonight, maybe tonight. And was that defeating? It was, but I in my heart, I kind of knew of knew that there was a desire there. I felt like it had to click for folks because it clicked for me, it clicked for Ben, it clicked for Matt on that mountain in the Himalaya. And sure enough, one night this guy Barry walked in and he looked around, he's like,

does anybody else going to show up? And I was like, oh, maybe later. And so we just started, we just started climbing. No, you're the first in four weeks, but thank God you're here. Yeah, yeah. So we started climbing and and and then there were two or three folks and that first year, there were about 70 folks that came to Phoenix and we did bike. It came 70?

70. Yeah, we started doing bike rides and hikes and climbing nights and taught like triathlon clinic and a whole bunch of other stuff. And it was a great little core group that started out. And the only rule to those people were when you show up to me, you got to be 48 hours over. And adhere to that ethos that we're here to lift each other up. Okay, that was your one.

Yeah. And after 70, now you're starting to think, all right, maybe I'm not completely nuts and this is a thing, right? Yeah. We'll be right back. working parents who love our careers and our families. On the best of both worlds podcast each week, we share stories of how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.

We talk all things planning, time management, organization, and more. We share what's worked for us and our listeners as we're building our careers and raising our families. We're here to cheer you on as you figure out how to make your days even more amazing. From figuring out childcare to mapping out long-term career goals, we want you to get the most out of life.

Listen to Best of Both Worlds every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Good song. The Johnny Carson theme, right? Hey, who wrote that? Skip, who do you think? It's your buddy. Hi everyone, I'm Paul Anka. And I'm Skip Bronson.

And what happens when two old friends take their decades of experience in the business and entertainment roles and sit down with our buddies? You get our way, a brand new show from My Heart Podcast, where we chop it up with our pals about everything under the sun. Hear about Michael Buble's entrance into show business. And get business insight from Mark Burnett. Find out what scares my son-in-law, Jason Bateman, and discover the bragging rights that come with beating Michael Jordan at golf. Together, we know just about everybody, including sitting presidents.

So join us as we ask the questions they've not been asked before. Tell it like it is and even sing a song or two. This is our podcast and we're gonna do it our way. Listen to our way on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. The Black Information Network and six-time Emmy-nominated news anchor, Vanessa Tyler, welcome you to Black Land. A podcast about the ground on which the Black community stands right now. From stories about salvation and loss. They did not love themselves enough to know their HRD status, to not pass it on to me.

To dreams achieved or still yet unfulfilled from people who have made it. We started a hospital based violence intervention program called the I.V. project and it stands for interrupting violence and using young adults to those who have been left behind. But no one talks about the survivors of the gun violence and the numbers rising because the gun violence has risen. Politically, financially, emotionally, spiritually, this is where we are.

This is Black Land. And one of the things that my father said to me before he passed away, it's like almost like a prophecy. He said that I would be helping men. Listen to Black Land on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. We felt like, so by now it was, you know, Ben, Jackie, and this guy, Mike Britton, and Don Taylor.

A couple of folks had kind of come around it. They were like helping it actually happen. And we incorporated it as a nonprofit and we got our first donation, which no surprise was from my mom, you know, it was like, it was pretty, you know, pretty much a regular startup nonprofit. So, but we felt urgency even then to make it a national thing, not because we wanted to build a huge organization because that's actually really hard to do, but because the need was so great. People started hearing about

it even in this really early stage and wanting it in their community because people were dying and people were losing the people they love and care about and there's a lot of pain out there. And so we felt an urgency to grow it. So we always had a vision of having it reach as many people as we could. And year two, year three, chronologically take me through it. Yeah. It started to really become a real thing, right? Like we started getting donations from people that I wasn't related to. You were a college mom for a check.

And so other people were investing in that vision. I just remember we met with this incredible foundation called the Daniels Fund in Denver, Colorado. They came to climb in one night and they saw this 30 or so people meeting in the climbing gym high-fiving and fist bumping when they got down from the climb and we're all in recovery and we're all like literally lifting each other up with a rope to the top. They made, I think it was a $30,000 grant to the Phoenix. Then I just felt like this is something, this is something, this isn't just something we

believe in that other people are believing in this. And they've been funding us since they've been an incredible partner for the Phoenix. So that's when it really started to take off. Now, you're in over 40 states, 150 plus communities. You've got 1,500 volunteers and you've served over 100,000 people with Phoenix free programs. And in 2023 alone, you served another 100,000 people. loan, you served another 100,000 people. And today, you've served 364,000, what you call members, have had 72,000 events, 2,500 volunteers activated, and 83% of the members. This is the one.

83,000. People need to understand that, and I don't know the exact numbers in Scotch. You can fill in the blanks here, but going to typical both outpatient and inpatient programs, the rate of people who stay sober is only in the 20s, I think. Is that not correct? Yeah, it's pretty low. It's about 60 percent of folks will relapse pretty quickly coming out of formal treatment. Sixty.

And you have 83 percent of members report remaining sober after three months. That's phenomenal. Yeah. So let's do so. So my question is, what's the secret and the sauce? I mean, what's the difference? And I think you're going to tell me it's community, but I want to hear it. Yeah.

Well, you're not wrong there. I mean, we say that, you know, at Phoenix, you often come for the activity or the workout, but you're staying for the friendships. And I think even more importantly, that that self-esteem ember has been smoldering most of that person's life trying to get oxygen. And Phoenix just gives it a little bit of that. And when they get to the top of that climb or they try that CrossFit workout for the first time or they try yoga and they get centered in their yoga

class or meditation, that starts to catch fire within them. So it's the Phoenix and my wife's in recovery and we actually met at Jiu Jitsu. But then later she came to the Phoenix. Did she kick your butt? No, I tried not to squish her because she's pretty tiny, but and I'm the opposite. But she later showed up at Phoenix and I found out she was in recovery too. But she says, so she became a Phoenix member over time and she said, Phoenix didn't make me strong, it just reminded me that I am.

You know, and so that's the message. See, I think that's beautiful. That's very, very cool. Back when I was 15 years old, daddy number four had, the time runs together. But one of my mom's husband shot up the house one night and had to dive out a window to survive the night. And I had all this dysfunction going on. And anyway, I got in a fight in high school. And back then when you got in a fight, you went to the principal unless you were a football player. And then you went to that coach's office. And I promise you that coach's office, you went to the principal unless you were a football player and then you went to the head coach's office.

And I promise you, the head coach's office, 50 times worse than the principal, right? Yeah. And I love the man. His name was Coach Spain. And he had this way of bringing grizzled and old school. He was a son of a cotton farmer and just old school grizzled But also had this way of you just knew he did care about you But he didn't have to actually say it that kind of thing old school guy And I just know I'm going to his office and I'm about to get just laced up for getting in a fight

And he asked me what the problem was and I said I'm angry He said you're angry and I said I'm really. And he said, you're angry. And I said, I'm really angry. And he said, well, that's understandable. He said, I know about the dysfunction in your house. I know what you've been having to deal with and put up with. And at your age, that's a lot. And I think I'd be angry too. And he said, and frankly, nobody could back to something you said, nobody could fault

you for being, for succumbing to that anger because of those circumstances that you've grown up with. And he said, but I want to tell you what that looks like. When you're 30, you're probably going to be divorced. You will have lost one or two jobs. You will probably have a child or two out of wedlock and you will likely have some sort of addiction to alcohol or drugs. If you continue to succumb to the anger and the frustration that you're surrounded by. And he said, or you can recognize that dysfunction. And he said, you're old enough now and you can make a choice and you can be a rock that

dysfunction breaks itself off. And he said, nobody can blame you for being a victim of the unbelievable circumstances you're dealing with. But you need to know what that looks like. So you can choose to either be a victim or a rock. And I'm gonna tell you something. I would like to say at 15 or 16 year old it was like a light shone down from the heavens and had a epiphany that minute but I didn't, you know. the heavens and had epiphany that minute, but I didn't, you know. But over the course of the year, that's really what got me thinking more about the life I was going to lead and the dysfunction that I was going to denounce out of my life because one man finally said, you're valuable, you do not have to be a product of your environment.

You're worthwhile. You're lovable. And if you do the right things, you can surround yourself with people that care about you and you can find success in your life. And it was a. Coach Spain is dead now, but. That was that was my moment when people chose to go up and get frostbite versus turn around and go up and get frost-fighted versus turn around and go down and save myself.

Yeah. Yeah. That was my year moment. And the reason I'm telling this story to you is, in some ways, you're showing people away to not be a victim of their addiction, but rather find a way to be a rock against that dysfunction, it feels like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's the thing that, that's that pivotal moment, right? Like that rock, that strength, that resiliency, that's like innate in us.

Yeah, it's there in all of us. Yeah, that messaging, that those circumstances, that maybe it's the environment you grew up in, maybe it's family of origin, maybe it's the lack of opportunities, whatever it is, may start to have us question that. But something comes along sometimes like that coach or whatever that experience for my wife or where it just shines a light on it that has always been there and that is within all of us. And I think it's great what you said too.

You wish that the light is shown down and that was the moment where it all changed. But the truth is we can't unimprint that pain that was imprinted on us so profoundly. Like the emotion in which that pain was imprinted on us was really strong. Because you use the word trauma, right? And I agree. But so the only way to disentangle that thread that's been woven through the fabric of who we are is through practice and repetition and reaffirming it and Messaging like that and then proving out that messaging and truth and that's the beauty of Phoenix like it's not

You know there's a bunch of youth programs that I was involved with before Phoenix where we take somebody out on a sailing and they'd change their life and then we'd put them right back on the same street corner the next weekend. And of course they're going to go back to the old life, but like Phoenix is always there. There's something every day you can go to. You can show up. If you want to come every day, if you want to come twice a day, you can. And you just keep reinforcing that message that you're valuable, you have this innate strength, we believe in you and believe it or not, eventually start believing it for

yourself. And it remains free for anybody who wants to help. Yep. The way you give back is become a volunteer and for folks that it's within their means, they become donors but it's not an expectation. You can come, people come for years and have never paid for a single thing at Phoenix. We'll be right back. Hi, I'm Laura VanderKimm. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker.

And I'm Sarah Hart Unger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, and course creator. We are two working parents who love our careers and our families. On the best of both worlds podcast each week, we share stories of how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. We talk all things planning, time management, organization, and more. We share what's worked for us and our listeners as we're building our careers and raising our families. We're here to cheer you on as you

figure out how to make your days even more amazing. From figuring out childcare to mapping out long-term career goals, we want you to get the most out of life. Listen to Best of Both Worlds every Tuesday on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Information Network and six-time Emmy-nominated news anchor, Vanessa Tyler,

welcome you to Black Land. A podcast about the ground on which the black community stands right now. From stories about salvation. And loss. They did not love themselves enough to know their HRD status to not pass it on to me to dreams achieved or still yet unfulfilled from people who have made it. We started a hospital-based violence intervention program called the IV project and it

stands for interrupting violence in youth and young adults to those who have been left behind but no one talks about the survivors of the gun violence and the numbers rising because the gun violence has risen. Politically, financially, emotionally, spiritually, this is where we are. This is Black Land. And one of the things that my father said to me before he passed away, it's like almost like a prophecy.

He said that I would be helping men. Listen to Black Land on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast. Or wherever you get your podcast. Good song. The Johnny Carson theme, right? Hey, who wrote that? Skip, who do you think it's your buddy?

Hi everyone, I'm Paul Anka. And I'm Skip Bronson. And what happens when two old friends take their decades of experience in the business and entertainment roles and sit down with our buddies? You get our way. A brand new show from My Heart Podcast, where we chop it up with our pals about everything under the sun. Hear about Michael Buble's entrance into show business and get business insight from Mark Burnett.

Find out what scares my son-in-law Jason Bateman and discover the bragging rights that come with beating Michael Jordan at golf together. We know just about everybody including Sitting presidents. So join us as we ask the questions. They've not been asked before tell it like it is and even sing a song or two This is our podcast and we're going to do it our way. Listen to Our Way on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. This has become an organization now and now you've moved from Boulder back to Boston, right? Yeah. And I mean, you're in 40 states.

Is that, was that right? Yeah, we're pretty much in every state now. So we've, we were growing so fast. We have, through the pandemic, we launched virtual and live stream Phoenix programs. We then got recorded content on tablets that we have distributed in prisons. So you can come to the Phoenix when you're on the inside too. And are you kidding? Yeah, we're kind of the Peloton of recovery and prison with a little less band ex, you know.

Yeah, a lot less. But it's it's it's cool that people can connect to Phoenix. Then when they transition home, they can find Phoenix in their community. And then if you're not even living near a Phoenix, you can be the volunteer that starts it in your community. So it's almost 70% volunteer led now across the country. That's really got to help with recidivism too. It does.

Yeah, it really does because you know when you're involved in the criminal justice system and the same thing coming out of drug and alcohol treatment, like when your cell phone's full of people you used to drink and use with or do whatever you used to do with, it's hard to stay on that path but Phoenix fills it up with new numbers of people that care about you and want to see you on Friday night because you go to climbing together all the time or you go out for a run together every Friday or whatever it is. So literally there's something every day? Every day and live stream you can find us from anywhere. And we started building this

app, this mobile app where you could find Phoenix events near you and become a volunteer through the app. Then we realized we're not the only building block of healing. There's so many other things that people might need. We started getting other nonprofits onto our app as well, which is unusual in the nonprofit space for people to collaborate in that way. It can be territorial. But there's a dozen other nonprofits that are on there now. And you might come for Phoenix and realize that C. Keeling, who's also on there, can help you with your early childhood trauma. Or you might realize that She Recovers, which is another organization on there,

might help you as a woman in recovery in a way that Phoenix can't. So, it's like, I think we want to keep building that out to the point where there could be hundreds of nonprofits on there that are equally as profound in what they accomplish in people's lives as Phoenix and then we build a true continuum. And so if you need workforce development, we hope someday you can find it through our app. Whether we're doing it or not, there's somebody out there who's doing a good job.

So let's get them on there and we can help each other's members. So how many people this year do you think you're going to serve? I think we're going to serve about 400,000 people this year alone. Holy smokes. And we have about 50,000 monthly active users on our app and we're just getting started the way I see it. You know, we worked with some philanthropists to kind of set out a vision of serving a million people in five years. We worked with some philanthropists to kind of set out a vision of serving a million people

in five years. And I think in the next five, we'll get to a place where we serve a million people a year. How are you going to prune up that many flowers to put on the course? Yeah, a lot of corkboards, you know. So, believe it or not, when I go by one, I still stick a business card to it. I can't help it. I can't help it.

It's just like a habit. It's a roots. That's where it came from. It's a lot of money involved here. Yeah. Yeah, it is, but it's... Where does it come from if it's all free? I mean, I get you got a lot of the programming as volunteers giving of their time, but you

still got space. I mean, my goodness, there's a lot going on. Yeah. Well, we're, we're, we're blessed in that, you know, a lot of folks that, you know, if somebody owns a CrossFit gym or functional fitness gym somewhere, they open their doors to us because they've been touched by addiction. And so that's how we get volunteered space across the country. Some places we have brick and mortar, but it's really these angel

donors who want to make a serious change around this issue that have helped fuel the funding for building the app and the technology and for managing volunteers at scale. I think next year we'll probably have 5,000 volunteers just next year. So, that's a huge lift to do that. But when you look at the financial costs, it's nothing compared to the financial cost of the current addiction crisis. It's a drop in the bucket, the fuel Phoenix at scale compared to the impacts on our community with incarceration and folks losing their lives. Then the compounding effect, right?

If those adverse childhood experiences impacted you and I in that way and then you lose a parent to addiction or you lose a parent to incarceration, and those things begin to compound on the next generation. And so, you know, we need to move now. If we're looking at the overdose rates that you cited, which are true, and we're not even including alcohol and other illicit drugs in those numbers, then today's the day to start to stem the tide of it, or the next wave will be bigger. That's why we feel this urgency even

after all these years. I think there's a... I think there's two audiences to tell this story to. One, are the audiences like me? The sappy feel good guy that just wants people to be better. Yeah. And Scott, I think you... I'm in that bucket. Yeah. We ride the sappy bucket. Mm-hmm. And we hope that the genuine care for those among us who are struggling or maybe not as fortunate as us is the we're incented by by simply the motivation to care for those. Well, I hope that's the bigger group of people. But there's another audience

here in my mind, and it's the pragmatist. Yeah. And the pragmatists need to understand that if we don't do something about addiction, incarceration, what it's doing to the middle class in the United States, what it's doing to us socioeconomically, the pragmatists in us has to understand what does our culture look like in 30 years? If we continue to allow lives, families and neighborhoods to be destroyed by addiction, because ultimately the truth is the basis for a civilized society is a healthy tax base.

And if you don't have a healthy tax base, you can't build roads, you can't run sewers, and you can't do anything. And when your populace is not able to contribute to that healthy tax base, there's a pragmatist, pragmatic reason for fixing this too, which is our culture can literally fall apart under the weight of addiction, abuse, incarceration, poverty, and the rest. So while we do talk to the audience mostly that's in my bucket and your bucket on the Philly Good Side, the The truth is, the inconvenient truth is, there's a pragmatic reason that this work is so important and it's literally a fight for our culture.

It is. It is. And I'm so glad you brought that up because I think that the thing that I saw most lacking in the addiction recovery field as I got into this work with the Phoenix is that often folks with addiction are seen as sort of a problem to be managed by like these top-down solutions. And then also the system itself is really treating the symptoms, not the underlying why. But if you go back to that underlying why, it can manifest in a whole bunch of ways other than addiction. It can be chronic illness. It can be divisiveness. It can be othering of people. It could be anger. It could be that fighting, the stuff that you kind of talked about. That can come out all sorts of different ways where we're, we don't feel safe and supported and loved here.

So we project out on the world some way that we cope that is often a negative way. And it's in that that I think these bigger societal issues are being eroded from the same why. And I think if we can build nurturing community for a million people in recovery who've been through all this stuff with an ethos of we're here to lift each other up, I think we can do the same thing in our society more broadly because we've proven it out on a big enough cross-section of people that we would view as on the margins of our society, but the truth is they are us.

We are all rising from something and if we actually just took a minute to help each other up from that, I think we'd have a different community. And can you imagine the reciprocal effect of the million people you serve 20 years later? That's a million interruptions of dysfunction. That's a million interruptions of the next generation to suffer the trauma of addiction. And just like the ball has rolled downhill into our culture on this addiction, it can roll downhill to health and redemption by interrupting it.

The numbers work the same way, both in a negative and positive way. And so, you know, dude, have you taken a second to look the shelf of the mirror and think, wow, I was climbing a mountain 16 years ago and had a weird idea and a piece of paper on a cork board and it's phenomenal. Yeah, it is. It's been an incredible journey. And what I'm really moved by is the people who've come alongside us, you know, the people who've come alongside us as volunteers to carry the Phoenix flag in their community and take us everywhere across the country.

And the Phoenix members themselves who take that ethos as a way of living and they bring it out into the world and start to interact in the world differently and the donors who supported it to get it where it is because it's not a sexy issue to fund around. It's not something that we don't build centers in hospitals to look at this issue. It's something that usually lives in a darker shame place in our families and in our society. And the folks that have put their money sort of where their heart is to help Phoenix get to more folks, those are the people I'm really moved by. But I'm also, it's so cool to see. Like I sometimes I'll travel, you know, around to meet with folks in different Phoenix chapters everywhere and somebody will see the Phoenix shirt and they're like, yo man, you go to Phoenix?

And I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Let's not go to Phoenix. That's your thing. Yeah. Been going there a long time. Yeah. And they're like, which one do you go to?

I'm in Wichita, you know? And so it's just, it's cool to see that, that it is, that it's, they don't know me, they're from totally different places, but they know that like this bird means that we'll reach our hand out to each other when we need it. And if we all did that, it would be a very different world. Clear picture of a Phoenix meeting. You're liable to have a line worker, an unemployed guy, a lawyer, a doctor. Yeah, I got to believe that the cross section of your members represents every possible race,

creed, religion, faith, and walk of life because we've got to be mindful that this addiction issue that you're attacking is not specific to any particular societal group. Yeah. That's exactly right. We have folks that have widely different political bumper stickers on their cars when they pull up. You know? But isn't it cool to see them at the end of it embracing and coming together around one thing despite their differences?

Is that not amazing? They're tying into the same climbing rope some nights in the climbing gym or they're fist bumping after the CrossFit workout or they're there for each other because one of them had a tough day and felt like drinking. But because his buddy's there, he didn't have to because Phoenix was there for him that night. And that's what's special about it. And a shameless plug is to me, that is the power of an army of normal folks coming together, regardless of who you are, what you believe, how you vote, who you love, how you worship for any of that, and joining in community.

And your organization is just yet another example of the power of that. And it's phenomenal. If somebody wants to join, somebody's looking for help, somebody wants to be a volunteer or God forbid, somebody wants to open up their checkbook and help you grow, how do they reach you? They can reach us at the thephoenix.org to learn more, to donate on the website. And then you can also find us in the App Store. And it's the Phoenix, a sober community. Look for that red bird and download the app and just jump in.

As soon as you come to your first event, if there isn't one around you, you can come to virtual and then right away you'll have a notification on how you can volunteer and start Phoenix in your community. I actually read where it will actually give you a map of where stuff is going on. Is that right? That's very cool. Explain that real quick. Yeah. So we just, you know, as long as you leave your geo locating on, you can, it'll, it'll find the events that are near you and populate them in your feed. And it'll find the events that are near you and populate them in your feed. And then there's groups that you can join around different affinities and you'll find folks across the country that support you on this journey. Scott Strode, the son of a struggling father and alcoholic father-in-law

His only respite was the trees and streams behind his dad's farmhouse Who? Who found his redemption on the side of a mountain one day and decided he wanted to starting start helping? By posting notes on Corp Board, who now 16 years later is gonna serve literally millions. Bro, what an amazing story, and I just cannot thank you enough for sharing all of it with us today.

Thank you, and thanks for sharing your story too, because that vulnerability lets us bring that stuff into the light where that pain can heal. And we could be a phoenix. Exactly. Yep, rising from the ashes. Alright man, thanks for being with us. Thank you.

And thank you for joining us this week. If Scott Strode or another guest has inspired you in general or better yet inspired you to take action by joining the Phoenix, starting a chapter in your community, donating to Phoenix or something else entirely, please let me know. I'd love to hear about it. You can write me anytime at bill at normal folks dot us and guys I'll respond if you enjoyed this episode guys Please share it with friends and on social Subscribe to the podcast rate and review it become a member a premium member at normal folks dot us all of these things That will help us grow an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week.

One of the best shows of the year according to Apple, Amazon and Time is back for another round. We had a big bear of a man who was called Mal Evans, who was our roadie. And he was coming back on the plane and he said, will you pass the salt and pepper? And I miss herding. I said, what? Salt and pepper.

Listen to season two of McCartney, a life in lyrics, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, here's the thing. I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating people like jazz bassist Christian McBride. Jazz is based on improvisation but

there's very much a form to it. Most pop songs have a very strict structure, verse verse chorus, whereas jazz you get a melody with a set of chord changes. You play that melody with those chord changes. Now once you do that you have a conversation based on that melody and those chord changes. So it's kind of like giving someone a topic and say, okay, talk about this. And comedian and actor Caroline Ray. You're most comfortable when you're on stage. Probably.

You really love it. Yeah, I feel like I always think my stand-up is a dinner party. I know what I'm gonna make. You're my guest. I don't know what's gonna happen. But the thing about stand-up that amazes me is it's only gonna happen in that moment in time, even if we film it. It's never going to be what it feels like live." Listen to the new season of Here's the Thing on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or

wherever you get your podcasts. 47 years ago, on a warm summer's night in Melbourne, Susan Bartlett and Suzanne Armstrong were stabbed to death in their home in Easy Street, Collingwood. Suzanne's 16-month-old son was asleep in his car at the time. The double homicide left the community shocked, no one has ever been charged, and critical questions remain unanswered. Listen to Case Fire Presents The Easy Street Murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.