An Army of Normal Folks - Slingshot: Data-Driven Generosity (Pt 2)

Episode Date: December 31, 2024

America is one of the most generous countries in the world and yet many of our worst problems aren't getting any better. One of the greatest reasons why is the lack of return on investment analysis that is expected in the business world, but is pervasively absent in philanthropy. Slingshot has conducted this analysis for 55 Memphis nonprofits, which empowers givers to fuel the most effective nonprofits, and this innovative model could be adopted by any community across the country! Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an Army of Normal, folks. We continue now with part two of our conversation with Justin Miller and Jared Barnett, right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these

days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlamagne the God. We're gonna take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me,

Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As I was listening to you, after the movie and you know, I got interviewed a bunch still do and one of the things I try to explain to people is that kids in high school do not if you put bulletins out and said everybody show up to this mentoring program they ain't gonna show up I don't know a couple kids might but you're not gonna have kids standing in line to get excited about showing up to the mentoring program. And when I was 15, I wouldn't, I don't want to go, who wants to go?

I mean, maybe a dude that goes yodel theology in Switzerland shows up to me, but the vast majority of us don't. But if you say, hey, we got a football team, we got a rugby team, kids will show up for that. Uniforms, buses, games, stuff to do. The point is, my experience has been that basketball and football, that's the hook. That's the hook. The kids, it's the biggest ruse known to man. The kids are, we're snowing these kids. We're giving them football, but what we really want to give them is the mentoring. But we really want to give them a chance at life and we're using that medium to be able

to mentor and bring them along and help them with things they don't even know they need help for. And to your point, Shane wanted to teach kids rugby and that's what he started off doing and it's a beautiful thing and hey it kept kids out of the street, they're playing rugby and then at the end of high school when they go do whatever it is they do, after that they can at least have a great experience of two, three, four years in high school playing rugby. But honestly, that's it. In North Memphis, an 18-year-old male around New Chicago and Smokey City, an 18-year-old male is three times more likely to be dead or incarcerated by his 21st birthday than

is to have a job or be in college. That is the truth. That's the demographic. Think of what happens to that demographic. It's shattered if that kid decides to play football or rugby or whatever in a program that also does the wraparound and also does the fast fail and also does the work you're talking about. But the point is, Shane was not a fast for expert nor was he a college entrance expert. He was rugby guy was it was just for fun. It's like, I love rugby. I love people look what can transform when you when you employ that passion with the hook and you

give that person with the passion and the hook an opportunity to see that he has an opportunity to change lives and you partner with them and that's exactly what Mephisto Rugby's done as a result of their relationship with Slingshot. One thing that's interesting about Shane and this I give him a compliment by way of telling you a little bit more about Slingshot, is he is as passionate as he is, he is equally if not more humble. And so what he's helping do is flip the script locally in philanthropy. For example, what nonprofits are typically trained to do is to go on

bended knee and to tell great stories that it's really working, it's really working, and then they get just enough money to come back and get on bended knee again the next year. What Shane does is he takes this analysis that Slingshot provides Memphis Intercity Rugby and he celebrates what's working and he talks about how they can get better and he invites donors to participate in them getting better. It's more truthful and it's way more energizing. And I guarantee a donor feels good that their money is being used as well as possible in that endeavor. So that's that side. But you still have to unpack these

givers that we kind of talked about a few minutes ago. So how did you guys unpack that? So, you know, it's really interesting to me because most, a lot of philanthropists, especially when you've reached a certain level of wealth often have gotten there through the business being successful business right and so they've applied a lot of financial practices to their business there you know they're not gonna they're not gonna go out and invest in a company or an opportunity just because someone told him a good story they want to see the financials they want to understand what's going on but when it comes to philanthropy, that's not

there. And I don't blame philanthropists per se for that because in my belief I don't think there has been a way to measure that until an organization like Slingshot has come around and given us a way to measure that and do that consistently. But that same rigor isn't there. And I you know you talked about our people, philanthropists, ashamed or hurt because maybe what they're doing wasn't as effective. I also think sometimes a lot of philanthropists just, they don't think about what's next. They're just like, I want to feel good. I

care about something I give to something I care about. I've done my job. And they don't think about well, no, like what philanthropists are really doing if you think about it in the grand scheme of this is they're providing the resources so that services can be provided to people who can't afford those services themselves. And so it's more than just I'm doing something because it feels good or because I'm passionate about it. It's really if we can get philanthropists to think about this is I am providing something that someone can't provide and I'm helping them access resources, skills, training, whatever it might be that's going to help better their lives, then you think about it differently. And so, you know, a great example I like to share is I have

a younger brother who's the brains in my family. He's a brilliant guy. He's a professor in finance and econ or something crazy. Where? He's at Arizona State University. So smart kid. He and I actually, I was doing my master's in business at the same time he was doing his PhD program. We were both at University of Chicago at the same time. He's five years younger than me. I'm going to him to tutor me. My econ stuff. Wow. Cause it's just that he's a smart kid and we love each other. We shared the same room ever since he was born until I left the house. Like that's how close we were. I have no doubt that he's smart, talented, cares about me deeply. And I would never, ever, ever,

ever let him perform surgery on me. No matter how much he cares about me, how much, you know, he's a doctor, but in econ and finance, right? And so the idea here is that when it comes to being philanthropic, intent alone isn't enough, right? My brother has the greatest intent for me. I know he would do everything he could to help me, but if he doesn't know how to help me, that intent, it's a requirement,

but it's insufficient in my mind. And so as a philanthropist, as we think about that, if we're trying to provide services, right, I want my children to receive the best services possible. I want my parents as they age to receive the best services possible. As a philanthropist, my hope is that we take that same mindset of I want people who are

experiencing poverty in Memphis or struggling with not able to access certain resources or benefits to have the best possible because that's going to help the most. And so transitioning that is really big. And so that's a big part of what we try and do is it's not just here's some information, good luck. It's shifting the mindset to as a philanthropist you are providing capital that can create that are is funding services that people need and you can provide and fund crappy services that aren't moving the needle or with some thought with some intentionality

with the resources that we try and provide you can support the organizations that are most effective at helping people with whatever you're passionate about. I don't think you can change people's passions. So if you care about education, great, focus on that. If you care about workforce development, great, focus on that. If you care about transportation, whatever it might be that you are particularly passionate about, stick with that because I think we all have to pursue our passions. But do it in a way that's going to the most helpful, because that's what you're doing as a philanthropist,

is it's not just throwing some money over the fence and saying, good luck, nonprofit, I hope you figure it out. You have a responsibility in my mind to try and provide those services in the most effective way. Okay, I'm a 501C3, and I'm working in foster care world. and I'm working in foster care world, okay? And there's six of us in town. And as I'm hearing you, I'm starting to wonder how this dynamic works out.

I'm sure you have an answer for it, but I gotta hear it. So there's six of us, and we're all fighting for those same dollars in our community to run our organization. And all six are well-intentioned. We're not going to say there's a fraudulent one out there. Six well-intentioned people trying to help kids in foster care or parents with, we're just going to use foster care as the place.

All right? And you evaluate me as the low guy on the totem pole. Is my money going to get short now? Because you've identified people that also are working in the same world as doing a better job and thus shifting more donation dollars to the more effective. I mean, the capitalist in me, the business guy in me says, that's the way it should be. If there's six people doing it

and there's three doing it really well and three doing it really poorly, we need to pull our resources for the three doing it really well and the three doing it really poorly, probably need to go find something else to do, just like your pastor said, there are good things that need a good burial sometimes.

But if I'm those 501C3s competing for those dollars and a limited amount of philanthropic giving in my community and as I get evaluated, I'm doing a poor job than my competitors, thusly you guys are also talking to the ones giving the money. Have you run into that? We'll be right back.

Hey everyone. It's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlamagne

the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts.

So I'm a business guy. My whole career was in business before I found Slingshot and it was the most unplanned thing in my life. If my children were needing foster care, I would want them to go to the foster care programs that are most effective. And so I don't think that's saying anything negative about an organization if they're not effective. It's just, I want what's best for my children.

And if this nonprofit is better at providing those services than this nonprofit, my hope is that if I'm funding that, I would fund those that are going to provide the best services. And so the answer is yes, it is. But I do. So you guys really do employ a very business focus based approach that the best are the best. And you have no qualms about that.

Can I, I don't think it's that binary. And the reason I say that is I stand by what Dr. Maxie Dunham said, and in many cases that is true. And that in many cases is the best way to love our neighbors is to stop funding things. However, we knew early on for Slingshot to actually have an impact, a meaningful impact in the city and the lives of our neighbors experiencing poverty, we need to reach critical

mass in all these different sectors. So for example, if you came to Slingshot's website and you can right now, you can go look at a lot of different information on specific nonprofits, which is a testament to those nonprofits' willingness to be transparent. If we were to have just evaluated one after-school program and one women's shelter and one fill in the blank, it would be interesting, but where it gets way more interesting is when we reach critical mass in all afterschool programs. So it's not as draconian as, hey, look, these four are great, these five are bad, let's shut these down and double down.

In many cases, because we're making it all transparent, organizations, even that slingshot doesn't work with right now, knows what questions to begin asking of themselves. They can read the reports of other after school programs. They can follow best practices. They can also call you up and say, hey, how do we move up on the list? Come help. That's actually what I was trying to get to. I was not trying to paint the picture that we're pitting philanthropic organizations against one another, because that's not what we're doing. I can get though how some people might hear this

and say that, so the whole reason I did this whole thing was to dispel the notion. But the point is, if you aren't up to snuff, nobody's locking you out. You're also saying, Hollis will help you get there. Yes, and I think that's the biggest thing for me. To reach that critical mass. That's right.

And so one thing, sorry to cut you off. I'm sorry, I was finishing my thought. I think one thing that's really important and Jared takes a much kinder, genuinely, a much kinder approach to this work than I ever did. Or I ever did. But one of the things I would ask often and I believe Slingshot still does this is like hey foundation you're very influential in Memphis if you don't want to support

Slingshot that's cool but we want you to think about, consider making it a prerequisite for nonprofits to go through our process before you release capital if you're in fact using Slingshot's information to make decisions. That's how this thing could really take root. That's how it should take root. I mean, I mean, we evaluate everything in our lives and business. We evaluate when we're choosing a school for our children. We should evaluate when we're buying a car. We evaluate when

you're buying a house. You evaluate when you, God forbid, get sick you you don't go to the doctor that everybody says is a quack You try to find the best Why wouldn't we be evaluating this world it oh, I mean as interesting as this is It's actually kind of obvious in it. It's very logical and it's countercultural at the same time it is countercultural, but and it's counter cultural at the same time. It is counter cultural, but you know, this is the way we've always done it, is the last words of a dying organization, right?

And so you are taking a really unique business centered, efficient approach at both evaluating the nonprofits, but also getting the philanthropic dollars to use that evaluation. That's right. I think one thing to go back to an earlier topic around Robinhood, and Robinhood is great. They're very good at what they do.

The ecosystem in New York is, generally speaking, way more advanced than Memphis, because they've been asking good questions for a long time. Much longer than we have. Much longer than we have. Much longer than we have. And probably most municipalities. I think that might be the case. I definitely know it's the case up there.

No, no, what I'm saying is Robin Hood's, the questions they've been asked, I mean, this same issue we're talking about at Memphis probably exists in Little Rock, Albuquerque, Denver. I'm saying maybe Robin Hood is much more advanced because they've been analytical and asking questions longer, but they're the atypical. That's right.

And they have the ability to raise a significant, to your earlier point, amount of capital. And they are, and I think they might push back on this a little bit, I'm friends with them, they have the ability to be a lot more objective and less personal sometimes in their giving one of the things I believed back in the day and Believe maybe even more adamantly now is that for this to have the chance to work in Memphis it needed to be done

with grace and to work in Memphis. It needed to be done with grace and humility. And so the people like Jared that work there, the approach itself, I mean, you can look at the algorithm and it can be really whatever stark, but the way in which they meet people where they are is rare. And so they've engendered trust with nonprofits in particular and in many cases, donors, to actually give this thing a fighting chance to work. I think a big part of that too, Bill, is we don't say good or bad, right?

We're not like, oh, this is a two thumbs up nonprofit or a two thumbs down. You don't have a five star rating service. It's really around, here's the information, here's where an organization is at. And just like you would use financial statements to make different financial decisions, some people care a lot about growth,

other people care a lot about profit, other people are big on margins, right? There's different things you might care about. Our goal is to make that transparent, like Justin talked about, so people can make informed decisions. They can understand as a nonprofit what are the most effective practices at trying to do what you do. If you're a funder, what are the organizations that are making the greatest impact in the

areas that I care about and we give that information to people so they can make informed decisions. And one of the things that I love, it's been the most inspiring thing, one of the most inspiring things for me is getting the point point around we do study some nonprofits that are not very effective. We don't know that going in and you know as Justin talked about earlier they go in not knowing how this report is going to come out and what's inspiring to me is it's in almost every case the organizations that have the lowest we call it impact results tend to be the most energetic at doing something about it. Really? That's great news. It's amazing and it's what you want, right? Is this idea

that with more information you're now empowered to do something about it. So half of our report is where are you in terms of your impact and where you're at. The other half of the report is how do you get better? And so we'll identify very clear opportunities that will help them create more impact for the participants that they serve. And it's invigorating to see these nonprofits do that and say, okay, great, we can do A, B, and C of these opportunities and that will help us get better. We now are empowered to know what to do where a lot of times they're fighting fires or having to deal with just what's right there.

And then as Justin talked about that Shane uses that to then say, hey, I can get more effective if I can get support for this and this, which are often things that we've helped them identify because we have this objective, analytical approach to doing it. And so it creates this ecosystem of information, of evidence, of transparency that again, empowers,

my view is empowers everybody to fight poverty more effectively. A nonprofit, a foundation, a corporation, we work with a lot of the big corporations here in Memphis, politicians and policy makers, all of this information is powerful to help make more informed decisions that lead to better outcomes.

I'm sorry to interrupt, but I think it's really important to just say a little bit about how it's not a one and done report. Yeah. And how it's, that's a big part of it's that's so I mean if you took someone's financial statements in you know 2000 and said all right I have their financial statements for the year 2000 and you're trying to use those in 2024 everyone would laugh at you like you're crazy because you would be. And so what we do is we do the reports annually with every organization that we work with and so it's a way that we can say you know we do the first years of baseline,

we really get to know their organizations. One of the things that I am proud of is that the organizations we work with would say that we know their organization better than anybody else, because we invest the time to know what they do and listen to why they set it up that way, what they're trying to accomplish,

the pain points they're experiencing. And we get that sound of understanding, but then every year afterwards, we'll go in and measure their impact again. And that helps them understand, Hey, we tried these two things last year. Did it help us get more effective? It really is an effective balance sheet. It's a dashboard. It is. And it's, it's intended to be that balance sheet. It's yeah. And so again, it transforms all of these things when it comes to philanthropy.

I want to feel good. I have good intent, I have this or that or that, I graduate so many people and it allows us to drill it down into outcomes. How are people's lives changing because of my money or my work as a nonprofit or because of this program and it makes the outcomes that people experiencing poverty are experiencing the driving factor behind decisions. Just like in business, at the end of the day, it's the bottom line, right? If it doesn't make money at some point in time,

someone's gonna stop funding my business, I'm not gonna, if I have crappy products, clients aren't gonna buy my products, it all gets down to the financial aspect of it. What we want to do is make that so simple through our work that it's how are people's lives changing is the driving factor behind how we think about philanthropy, how we think about the effectiveness of a nonprofit, at some point how people who are disadvantaged and lack resources can compare nonprofits.

At some point in time, we think that will be possible that, you know, if I'm living in you know, a community here in Memphis that doesn't have a lot of resources, that doesn't have a lot of opportunities, and I don't have the financial resources to do all the things I want to, I can go to Slingshot's website and say, hey, there's three nonprofits that provide something that I need. This one's the most effective out of those three. I want that most effective service. And so at some point that's going to be possible that we're going to be able to, again, how is it changing people's lives? We want that to be the driving force behind everything that deals with fighting poverty.

We'll be right back. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. We'll be right back. is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out, like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these days, fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha B., Roy Wood Jr., and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well.

I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, How many philanthropic organizations do you work with annually right now? So we work with 57 nonprofits today. And how many

philanthropic donor organizations do you work with? We've worked with organizations, organizations, donors, that's hard to quantify. It's been about a thousand since our inception, a little over a thousand between individuals. And your inception was? 2017 is our first year of operations. So in seven years, you've started a thousand or so and 57 nonprofits. But the point is, every time you add, you get a bigger data system, data source, right?

It's exponential, yes. Yeah, so I guess it would be, that's what I'm getting at. So as the CEO of this thing, Jared, what's the two, three, five year plan? Because I'm curious to hear those numbers because then I wanna understand exponentially what the data systems look like. Yeah Nerd out on that here, but so I think the

the bigger picture here is we want to get to a spot where We work with critical mass of nonprofits, right? We don't need to work with every nonprofit because we work with enough. We know what the best practices are We know what a good benefit cost ratio is in each world, each kind of sector category. So a good example is we work with five or six organizations that help people who are re-entering from the justice system. They've been incarcerated and are now coming back into society and we've done enough research and work with enough of those organizations that we know that these are the practices

that are going to help people the most. For instance, just helping someone get a job, which has been the historical way of doing that. There's statistically no difference between a program that just helps someone get a job and no program at all. Really? That is so interesting. What you need is you need some help staying in that job. The retention of that job for a period of time so that it becomes stable.

You've worked through those, you know, the honeymoon period, that is a big piece. You need mental health support. There's a high concentration of mental health conditions of people rendering from the justice system. And if you don't have support for that, it impacts employment and other things. And then individualized kind of mentoring or is another piece, right? You need someone who can help guide you not just some cookie-cutter program those three practices produce substantially greater differences for things like your earnings over time and recidivism rates so the rate of reoffending and having to go back to prison and so we now know that we make that public so anyone who's trying to help people re-entering from

the justice system can go to our website and say hey here are the practices that if I want to support a non-profit or a program or if I want to start a program I need to be doing these things if I want to see the most impact for the people that I'm serving. And so the vision is we want to kind of become the Amazon of poverty fighting resources. We want you to be able to come and find research that's really simple to understand, analysis that's easy to understand so that you can say, I want to fight poverty, I want to do it this way. Slingshot gives me resources to help me do that.

Kip Harkness Based on their study, their research, their data, which is real on time data points from the people that you serve. David Tenenbaum Exactly. And so the idea is we'll continue to study more nonprofits. We'll be in the hundreds by the time we reach critical scale. And then that's one aspect of it. Then we have kind of that we call it our impact study work. Then we have insights which is around all the knowledge and research that we've looked through over years. We have like 700, 800 research articles

that we've now pulled together in kind of a library that we know tell us about what's effective at fighting poverty in those ways. And so we want to create those insights and make those available for people. But then the biggest piece of all of this is that it doesn't do any good if it sits on our hard drives or if it sits on a website and nobody uses it. So this really next horizon for us is really around how do we activate people to use our work? And so that includes how do we make people aware of it and how do we make it easier for people to find it. It includes how do we create, I mean it's a business guy, how

do we create products and services and tools that are really helpful for people that meet pain points that they have. You know Justin you talked about this idea of you know you as your wealth and your income grew you got approached by more people but you weren't sure how to give that in a way there. I've talked to someone who's built a hundred million dollar business here and she told me they know I grew up without resources the only giving I did was the 10 that was passed around at church. She goes I have resources now and I have no idea how to give them. She goes I'm a CFO I understand money. She goes I know have resources now and I have no idea how to give them. She goes, I'm a CFO, I understand money. She goes, I know how to create strategies for my business, but I need help creating

a strategy for my philanthropy. Slingshot has resources that can help people with that, right? We want to provide those resources to do that. And so the vision is that we do that. And the last piece of that is we want to help influence decision makers on how to use those resources. And so an example right now of that is that there's a large national company that's going to invest $100 million in Memphis over the next 10 years. And we're working with them to think about how do you invest that $100 million in a way

that one, meets your business needs, right? There's some business behind this, they're a business, they're a for-profit, but two, has the most impact in the city and so we're helping them create a strategy for how to invest those resources philanthropically. That's gonna help move the needle so it's not a hundred million dollars over ten years and then we look back and say well what changed? Unfortunately a lot of times it's not much and say hey what's changed over 10 years? Oh we can point to that because we're measuring it and we've seen it and we've focused on these areas that make the biggest

impact or the non-profits that are most effective at helping us achieve a certain outcome we want and they're going to be able to say in 10 years if we continue to work together hey this is what's happened as a result of it and these resources have been funneled into a spot that's moved the needle or they use the word move the rock and the areas that they wanted to go and so that's the other part of that is really being that trusted advisor for people who want to fight poverty and want to actually see the needle move and are willing to be humble and open-minded that we don't always know the answer I didn't before I found slingshot and there's stillminded that we don't always know the answer. I didn't before I found Slingshot,

and there's still things that we don't know, which is why we need to study more organizations and learn more. But that's the vision is creating all of those resources so that people can fight poverty in a way that actually moves the needle. And we can do that with confidence because we measure it, we track it, and we're doing it with coupling the intent and the hard work with the ways that lead to the outcomes we all want. Again, getting back to those outcomes is the bottom line. Justin, when you hear Jared talk about what this will be in, I guess that's a two to five year plan. Born from these two unique skill sets you have

and just a simple desire at some point in your life to make philanthropy more focused on what the ROI is. How does it make you feel, dude? I mean, that's a cool legacy. Yeah, well, I've never thought about it that way. I guess... Well, it is that way, though. I know you're probably a humble dude and all that,

but that's what this is. Yeah, I guess where my mind just went, one of our, one dear friend of mine who is a co-founder of Slingshot, he also was a senior partner at McKinsey for years and years and sat on the board at Slingshot. He took a very different approach than I was used to and it was like, hey, we're going to give this thing a shot and it's either going to work or it's not. And if it doesn't work, we're going to move on. And I never really thought about that. I was more not even like, it's gonna work.

It has to work. And I still have some of that in me, but I've, I've sort of gravitated a little bit more into his camp. And, and so on one hand, I get excited. I just excited about knowing and being a friend of Jared and all the people that are doing great work at slingshot. I'm hopeful that it works. I'm hopeful that everything he just said comes to fruition because our neighbors deserve it, period. I'm also scared because there's a lot of history

that will substantiate this fear. I'm scared that even if it is truth and it is made available, that it doesn't take root in the way it should in this area. And so I think the jury's still out on that front, but I'm grateful. I wouldn't say proud. I'm grateful to have participated in this thing very deeply because it certainly affected my life and my wife's life and my children's lives in a way that I never anticipated I just have a sneaky suspicion When I sit and listen to Jared talk about it and I look at the glean in his eyes and the passion in his voice You know, you got to have a product that works and you got to be able to market it and

Typically the passion cares the marketing. I just can't imagine why this doesn't... exponentially as it grows, and the data and the information becomes more and more and more valuable, I don't understand why in the world everybody wouldn't wanna use it. I also don't understand, Jerry, why this is not scalable. I don't understand why people in Tulsa wouldn't want to employ these same things,

or Little Rock, or Louisville, or Charlotte, or Picc City. I mean, is this model, now that you've really, after seven years, started figuring out what you're doing and you reach that quote critical mass point in this market, is it not a job of obviously maintaining, like you said, annually those numbers so you meet that critical mass but your information is always current, that once you do that, you can take those same data points and that same effort and print it on other cities.

So that's the vision, right? If we can get something that works here in Memphis and we see it making a difference, it would be selfish not to share it. And so what we've been working towards is building the infrastructure to do that. So again, I'm an efficiencies guy. I love building organizations and processes.

And so we're trying to build the toolkit that could be, I don't like to use the word franchise because I don't think we would necessarily do that, but it's franchisable, right? It's so packaged that we can say, hey, we've got the data systems, we've got the processes, we've got the playbooks, which we do, we're building all of that. And we have our own data system that records all this information allows us to

do what we want to, that we can share it with others. But I think the biggest thing I think that would I would say would set this back from our side of it is the people. And so, you know, Justin and our co founders were incredibly thoughtful about the relationships, building the trust that was needed with the nonprofits, with the funding community, with others to be able to get behind this and support that. And without the right people, you know, the greatest widget in the world, then it's not going to work.

And so as we go to other, you know, as we consider taking this to other cities, it's really going to be a factor of can we get the right people who share our values and ethos, who can understand that community and build the trust within those communities to say, hey, we're gonna come and study you. We want you to kind of open up your books in essence, right? And we're gonna understand and measure your impact and then use that in a productive way

versus using that in less productive ways. And so I think that's where I think our challenge would be if we go beyond Memphis. And I think to Justin's point around, you know, in Memphis, I haven't talked to somebody, which has been really rewarding. And we've been able to explain that kind of the light bulb goes off around what we're doing and they say, that's a really stupid idea. Why the heck are you doing that? I haven't had one of those, right?

I've had a lot of ideas where people have said that in my life. They're just like, Jared, it's crazy. It doesn't make any sense. What are you thinking? The concept of Slingshot is not one of those. When people get it, it's like, oh, that makes sense. And I've been meeting with college students

who talk about this. And just the other day I was meeting with co-founders of one of the biggest regional banks in Memphis yesterday and introducing Slingshot to them and you could just tell like why isn't this been existing before but I think the adoption is gonna be the key part and again I don't think that's on the nonprofit side we've been really surprised we have more nonprofits that want to work with us than we can work with right now but it's on that funding side. Can people reframe how they think about philanthropy,

which has been done the same way for so long, and say, I'm not just giving because it feels good. I'm not just giving because I know Bill or I know Justin, but I'm gonna be more, take more accountability of my philanthropy and think of myself as I'm providing services for people who can't access them otherwise. And I have an obligation to provide the most effective services just like I would for myself, my children, those I care about. If we can

get to that point, we'll be great. But that's the thing we have to overcome. I think it's also important to note that slingshot for lack of better words takes its own medicine So it measures and has other people measured it Uh, so that we know that we are making the most difference. So, you know your own analytics That's right. And so and we've had a third party, uh, very respected third party do it alongside us as well And I tell you that because early on I would engage somebody in birmingham with Memphis roots and I would pitch it and Birmingham with Memphis Roots and I would pitch it and they would be like, I love it. Do it in Birmingham. I love it. Do it in Tulsa and to Jared's point, our neighbors in Tulsa and Birmingham deserve the same type of care.

However, you reference slingshot the name. I mean, if you watch Malcolm Gladwell's Ted Talk, it's 10 minutes on David and Goliath. It is about being super focused. It's not luck. And so it is a Herculean task. Yeah, we are going to Burbank, Ham and Tulsa until we know we got it on line. Amen. And so mission creep is real. It's real with our nonprofit partners. Donors often drive it.

And so Slingshot is trying to be very thoughtful in how it scales or doesn't to create the most impact possible. We'll be right back. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon.

But we're also gonna have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people.

So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So we, you know, rightfully so, we've talked a lot about Shane and Memphis Intercity Rug as a great example but I think I've read Justin where you mentioned there's is there how many philanthropic organizations are there in a city in a metropolitan area of about a million five? I can't recall the number Jared, do you know? It's over 10,000. How many?

Over 10,000. 10,000 bloody do-getter organizations run around Memphis. Well, that in and of itself in my opinion causes a little bit of problem in twofold. One is for the giver. With 10,000 options, where do I give my hundred bucks and Two is

There's no way there's not massive overlap with that many people where there's only so many categories of need so That's an interesting thing to talk about is one Yes, you work with big corporations giving away maybe tens of millions of dollars or millions of dollars, whatever. But there are campaigns that will tell you that the most effective fundraising campaigns for people running for office are not the ones that get five large donations from big givers, but the ones that get $10 from thousands of givers.

And there are a lot of people who have philanthropic hearts that want to help but they're the hundred thousand dollar giver. Where in the world do they put that money with 10,000 options and how does Slingshot help them in those decisions? How does Slingshot also encourage them to understand that their $10 is just as important as the other guy's $1,000? And how do you search through all the noise of $10,000 to find where your money needs to go? So, two approaches, I think, on this one. So, one, the two biggest things I hear from philanthropists that they struggle with is one,

not knowing if their philanthropy is making a difference. And two, not having the time or resources to go study that out themselves. They all have jobs, families, responsibilities, they can't spend all their time studying 10,000 nonprofits to figure out which ones are going to be most helpful. And so the way we approach that is twofold. One, we have a community fund, we call it the Accelerate Impact Fund, and anyone from anywhere can invest philanthropically, which we use the term invest, not donate, because we want people to have a mindset ship that I'm investing in something and should expect to return, which in our case is reduction of poverty. But they can invest in this Accelerate Impact Fund. And again, 100% of that goes to the nonprofits we study, but it goes based on how effective they are. And so it's kind of like a mutual fund concept.

But instead of just spreading that out evenly across the 57 nonprofits we work with, the most effective nonprofits get the largest share of that money. And the other thing that drives that is, are they getting more effective? Because we can measure, are they improving over time? And if they're out of love that so they can give to the quote fund. And then based on your analytics, you make sure the most effective people get the lion's share of the fund. Yes, we do. So you know, then the money is going to the most effective?

Exactly. And so if I'm an individual philanthropist of any amount, it's a way to guarantee that your philanthropy is making a difference because it's we do all the research to understand how effective these organizations are and we allocate it based on their impact and that way you don't have to go do all that research yourself and you don't have to go figure out among these ten thousand which ones to do but whether you give ten dollars a month or whether you give ten million dollars this ensures your philanthropy is making a difference because we do all the work to measure it and study it and do all that and so you mentioned something around you know if I'm given ten dollars a month versus someone's given a thousand

versus a million well if you're giving your money effectively at $10 a month, I would venture to say that's creating more impact if you're given, then if you're giving a million dollars in effectively that the organizations that aren't actually, that is such a good point to the, to the earlier point is maybe it's better to help 250 effectively than touch a thousand people in effectively. The same things's the money. If I'm giving $1,000 to an organization

that is really effective, my $1,000, well, based on your thing with rugby, the dollar creates now $2.40 of value. So my $100 can create $240 of dollars of value Where somebody given a thousand dollars of someone ineffective is a thousand dollars of zero value So my hundred creates 240 value your thousand creates zero zero value So truthfully my hundred dollars has a greater effect than this guy's thousand dollars based on following the analytics of the work that you do Right and again getting back to is it improving people's lives? And so that ROI or we call it a benefit cost ratio is an easy way to help understand that

and it allows anybody at any amount to have an impact because they're now able to give it in a way that is making the most impact. And so that's the first way that people can kind of benefit from our work and contribute to that. The second way, and Justin alluded to this, if you're passionate about a sector of poverty fighting or organizations, we'll just use our work to make an informed decision. Because if you only, like our Accelerated Impact Fund supports all the organizations we study, our entire 57, and so if you care just about early

childhood education, great, go to our website. You can look at the early childhood education providers that we work with. You can see which of those are most effective or are doing the things that you care most about and then you can just invest directly in them, but you use our insights. And so that's how we try and work with the philanthropic foundations and the large corporations with their community giving is, hey, we have these reports, focus those on what you care about. But again, you can do that, focus those on what you care about. But again, you can do that at any dollar amount if you're passionate about a certain area.

So we have two ways that our work can directly help people ensure their philanthropy is making a difference regardless of the amount that they're giving. And clear up the noise of 10,000 voices. Exactly. Very cool. Absolutely. Love it. It is a really fresh analytical fact-based driven with grace and compassion approach

on how to best use the dollars and have the most effective use for the people that we're all talking about here, which is the most disadvantaged among us. It is maximizing potential. It's freaking awesome. Someone's listening this. They want to donate. They want to get involved. They want to learn more. They want to do anything. And this is a national show. Actually, international people listen to other

countries, but this is a show that people from all over the world, I don't want to hear them hear this last bit of Tulsa and Birmingham and not feel comfortable reaching out, because God only knows where your next superstar could come from, right? Right. Somebody wants, we'll go ahead. And the research and the things on our website,

you can still apply that to other communities, even if we're not there. Any community, that's right. And you gladly give it. Yeah, and so it's there, it's available. There's things that we can do to benefit. Obviously we can do more in Memphis because that's where we are and you know we can be more ingrained here but anyone could pick up what we're doing. I also believe there's going to be a time that this will reach. I believe in you guys. I think the critical mass will happen and there will be export of this at some point. I

know that's like you said that's the goal. That's a dream. So I wanna find Slingshot on the interweb, internet, whatever that thing's called. What's the website? And then if I wanna get in touch with somebody, what's the email address? What do we do? So website is slingshotmemphis.org.

And so you can go there and that's all of our information is there. We're on social media on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. Very active there. We share everything we can. Our reports go up on social media. And then anyone can reach out to me directly at jared.barnett at slingshotmemphis.org. That's B-A-R-N-E-T-T.

Correct. G-A-1-R-J-R-E-D, then B-A-R-N-E-T-T, one R, two T's. Right? And you'll respond. Yes. Now, I mean, we wanna help.

I mean, that's why I would exist. That's why I'm doing this. I could go make a lot more money doing other things. But I believe in this. I see it working. At this point it's not a vision. Justin took the leap of saying, is this going to work? Is there any way to do this? The answer is after seven years is yes, it works. We're seeing organizations get better. We're seeing two foundations here in the city that use our reports in their investment decisions and nonprofits. And they've told us that,

just published that in our end report here. So we're seeing that uptake, we're seeing the impact, we're seeing nonprofits get more effective. And I wanna share that with everybody. We wanna give that away, that's why we exist, is to help people fight poverty more effectively. Justin, the last metaphor you used was not lost on me, that the name of this thing is slingshot and you evoked David Goliath.

You want to finish with that? Yeah. You know, I don't remember the story well, but I was actually- Oh, I do. There was a Philistine and a little Jewish guy. Is that the story you're talking about? Yeah. You know, I was sitting on a plane coming back.

This is after Slingshot. I think we were right before we became an official 501Z3. And I tried to involve a lot of people that were early adopters, thought partners in this work to come up with some names and some of the names in retrospect are hilarious and horrible. I was doing some research, Paul Tudor Jones again, rolled out the red carpet in New York and I was up there just doing research, meeting with all the really smart people at Robin Hood. And I was coming back on the plane and there was this young

lady who was sitting next to me and she lives in New York, but she's from Memphis. She was coming back to see her little sister graduated St. Mary's a school here in East Memphis and she was reading Malcolm Gladwell's David and Goliath. I referenced earlier one of the similar organizations doing work like this in San Francisco is called Tipping Point. Anyway, Malcolm Gladwell wrote that, David Goliath and it just hit me slingshot because again seminary and I know enough to be dangerous about that story. And if you read the book or as you should or if you listen to the again Gladwell's 10 minute Ted talk, it's a radically different story than what we think it is. It is purposeful. It is very purposeful and you have to paint the target, for lack of

better words, and be really thoughtful about what you do to have a chance to do something really hard. And so that's the name. I love it. Guys, I can't tell you how much I thank you for sharing this and spending the morning with me. You know, every week there's somebody involved in philanthropic endeavors and we tell their stories and where they came from and why they do what they do. I cannot imagine a single listener here or a single guest here not hearing this episode and saying, am I as effective as I wanna be? And is there a way to be more effective and could I get help evaluating and being more analytical about it

so that my resources reach the greatest effect in the community I'm seeking to serve? And people listen all the time that don't operate organizations but are heartfelt lovers of people and good givers. And I can't imagine them not asking, are my resources being used to the best of their ability after hearing this? And that entire population of people would absolutely say that this is the way to go about it. This is a great idea. I have no doubt in what this organization's success will be and what it can be to other communities. So, Godspeed, my friend. Take that passion and that brain

of yours and go get them. I wish you the best of luck and I thank both of you for joining me this morning. Thank you. Thanks, Bill. And thank you for joining us this week. If Justin and Jared have inspired you in general, or better yet, by thinking about your charitable work differently, checking out Slingshot's reports, starting something like it in your community, or something else entirely, please let me know.

I'd love to hear about it. You can write me anytime at billatnormalfolks.us, and I guarantee you this I will respond to you. If you enjoyed this episode guys share it with friends and on social subscribe to the podcast rate it review it join the army at NormalFolks.us consider becoming a premium member there. Do any and all of these things that can help us grow. An army of normal folks. The more of you, the more impact we have.

Thanks to our producer, Iron Light Labs. I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's to help me out like Ezra Klein, Jen Psaki, Astead Herndon.

But we're also going to have some fun thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.