An Army of Normal Folks - Stacy Horst: My Daughter’s Hope for Friends (Pt 1)

Episode Date: October 3, 2023

Stacy’s daughter Erin was bullied and excluded by her peers because she had autism, which led to taking her own life at 17 years old. Only four days later, Stacy and her husband Darren heroically decided that they would do everything in their power to prevent any other family from going through this. Their non-profit, Erin’s Hope for Friends, opened a physical location called “e’s Club” where more than 400 teens and young adults with autism go on the weekends and build friendships. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

And it's kind of that epiphany moment that either we're going to do something or this might kill us and we have another child and we can't do that. So we sat and talked about all those times when Erin didn't get invited to birthday parties and didn't get the invitation to go to the football games and didn't get asked to do things and realized that if she had had somewhere to go where she felt safe and could have fun and it had absolutely nothing to do with therapy. Just fun. Just fun to be with other kids and meet other kids and create friendships that she probably

would still be with us today. Welcome to an Army of Normal Folks, I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur. And I've been a football coach and intercity Memphis in the last part. It unintentionally led to an Oscar for the film about our team, which is called undefeated.

I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people and nice suits talking big words that nobody really ever uses or understands on CNN and Fox, but rather an army of normal folks us, just you and me deciding, hey, I can help. That's what Stacey Horst, the voice we just heard, has done. Stacey's daughter, Aaron, was bullied and excluded by her peers because she had autism. And tragically, that isolation led to her taking her own life

at only 16 years old. Stacey and her husband, Darren Darren chose not to be victims and they started the nonprofit Aaron's Hope for Friends to create physical clubs where kids with autism can hang out on the weekends and just be buddies. You know, enjoy friendships as we're all meant to. I can't wait for you to meet Erin right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffs? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance.

Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. Where am I? Why, this is the Pendleton. All residents, please return to your habitation. Light stuff on your feet! You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead to Me.

Am I under arrest? We don't like to use that word. Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time. So this is a prison name? No. It's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween.

I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask for you going to do that? Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, Katie, rapid fire. What do you think about when you think about Black storytelling? Joy. History.

Tony Morrison. Long novels. Zines. Very complex stories. BTS, Hood Motifs, unreliable narrators, absurdity, movie night, people yelling at the screen, reciting myangeles poetry for poetry competitions. Saying lines that you know from a movie that you've seen a million times already in tandem with a person in the movie.

Ooh, or saying lines in your normal conversations that you got from TV or... Yeah, obviously. It's hard to condense a story that's so expensive into such a small space. It's cool though, that's why we have the podcast. I'm Katie. And I'm Eves.

And on on theme, we tell stories about black stories. Ooh, you're getting really met of their Katie. Listen to On Theme on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Our first call is Mary in Lexington, Kentucky. Mary, welcome to the middle. Hello, and thanks for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country,

heading into the 2024 election, you have to get away from the extremes and listen for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country heading into the 2024 election, you have to get away from the extremes and listen to the middle. Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia. On the new podcast, The Middle with Jeremy Hobson, I'm live every week, taking your calls and focusing on Americans in the middle, who are so important politically but are often ignored by the media. I did a lifetime democratic voter. However, I was raised by moderate Republicans from Michigan. Creating space for a civil conversation about the most contentious issues we face,

from climate change to artificial intelligence, from abortion rights to gun rights. I consider myself to be conservative, cis-glee, but politically independent. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Stacey Horst, how are you? I'm good, how are you? Good, welcome to Memphis. Thank you. I, um, before we even begin, I've got to, uh, I've got to give you props.

You're one of what I hope is the first of many, but you're a groundbreaker for an army of normal folks. Did you know that? No, I did not. Well, you are, and, And here's what it is. So far, every guest we've had, Alex, our producer, and our light labs, and the people that make this show happen have worked really hard to find compelling stories of normal folks doing extraordinary things all over the country.

And they found them through, pouring through media and articles. And I guess it's good we're talking about this because one of the questions I get often is, how do you find all these people? And that's how they've done it. But you are the first of the organic, what I'm gonna call the organic guest in that,

we didn't find you that way, you found us. I remember opening an email from you, not that long ago. What was it a month ago? A month or a half? How long ago? Probably two, two and a half months ago. You think so?

Yeah, early on in our release, and Stacey Horst is our first organically grown army of normal folks guest. I wish I had a belt around. I was just gonna say woohoo. Yeah, you are the woohoo, this is a woohoo moment for us. And really you exemplify a microcosm of what the whole idea is. We're trying to grow a community that celebrates and listens and learns and grows off one

another. And so you are the first of that community. And so you will always hold a special place in the history of an army of normal folks being the first organic guest we have. So in a very real sense, welcome. And thanks for being here. Well, thank you.

Thank you for what you're doing. Oh, thank you for what you're doing. And I got to tell you when I read your email and we're not going to get to it yet. Wow, my heart skipped a beat. And I find the work that you're doing to be remarkable, frankly. The depth of the person you and your husband are is immeasurable in my opinion. And we're going to share all of that. So tell me about Rachel.

Oh. Not now. Rachel coming up. Rachel coming up. Oh, wow. She's a lot of fun. She loved fun. No's a lot of fun. No, she's just, she was a very fun kid, very sassy, but very sweet. She was a good older sister.

She, you know, just, she loved the arts. She loved to, she did, both of our girls did everything. They played sports, they did arts, you know, involved in church. And Rachel ended up, both of the girls ended up going, finishing school in Atlanta because that's where we ended up last. And she ended up going to Savannah College of Art and Design. And she's up going to Savannah College of Art and Design. Oh cool.

And she's a photographer. That's very cool. Yeah. And she's married now. She is. She's married. Her husband also went to SCAD and that's where they met. Wow.

That's the artsy family. Do they have kids? They have one little boy who just turned two. He's probably a meathead football player and never do the arts. That'll probably what'll happen. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see pretty artsy. Yeah, we'll see. All right, and so tell us about Aaron. Oh, um, Aaron loved animals. Um, Aaron was, um, very sweet little girl. As we'll talk about, she was diagnosed with autism when she was three, and really her passion was animals.

She also played sports, she played every sport known to man, and she loved to give away her stuff. Nothing that she had was hers. Everything she had could be somebody else's. If she saw that somebody needed something, she would come home and get it and go give it to. And without telling us, by the way, she played the drums. She was an awesome drummer. She was in a band and one of the kids at school,

who was also in the band and played the drums, needed a kick pedal. And she had two. Don't know if you have kids that played musical instruments, but this stuff is not cheap. It's expensive. Yes. And she came home and took the kick pedal, kick pedal back to school the next day and gave it away. And we found out weeks later. So she's a sweet kid. Oh, yeah. And loved animals.

Yes. And at a big heart. Yes. I got to ask you, how, you know, people listening to us are going to hear this whole story end up. But I got to get to get to what you're doing and why I really want to put a face on both Aaron and your family, three. Now, when you say she was diagnosed with, you said level one autism, is that how you said?

I think that was formally referred to as Asperger's. Is it, am I right about that? Yes. Why don't we call it Asperger's anymore? That's a good question. I'd like to know that myself. They chose to change the DSM-5, which is where you go for diagnoses, and they put, they lumped everything under ASD, which is autism spectrum

disorder. Why they did that, I don't know, because these teens, young adults, children who are in level one or asperers are and can be much different than what level three would be, which could be nonverbal, having tantrums. How many levels are there? Three. There are three. There are three. So, I'm assuming then one is the slightest level than two, then three is the deepest level. I'm asking. I don't know.

I really, is that right? Yes, that's right. You know, so many people are blind to autism that they don't really understand. I mean, you know, is a level one person functioning in a way that maybe you wouldn't know unless you just got up close and talk to them. Because I hear you say, she'll have animals, she played sports, was she, you know, mainlined in school. You see what I'm saying? Sure. Explain that existence.

I think that it's, yes, I think that you can look at people in level one, and unless you go up to them and have a conversation with them because basically one of their biggest deficits is their social interactions. You and I are sitting here looking at each other in the eye having a conversation where they find that extremely difficult to look you in the eye and to have a conversation on point. For example, if Erin was in a group and they're talking about, go into a football game

and they were having a conversation and she wanted to add something to the conversation. She would be standing there thinking about what she wanted to say for probably 60, 90 seconds before it would come out of her mouth. Well, for us, 60 or 90 seconds is a long time and we've already moved on. Like, we're not talking about the football game anymore. We're talking about where we're going to have dinner or what we're going to eat. So, when they choose to say something, then they're behind. And sadly, that's where

a lot of them get ridiculed, or bullied because they're trying to fit in and yet they're behind the eight ball in terms of the conversation. And it's really a social thing, but their brilliance is amazing. Could Aaron verbalize the world she saw differently than everybody else to you and would she do that with you? Oh, absolutely. What would she say? What did the, how did the world look different

to Aaron as a child with autism level one than it would do you and me. Can you give me an example to help me and the listeners kind of go, oh, you know, I didn't realize that they would see it that differently. I mean, how would she verbalize that she would see things that were different than the way you would see them? I think the biggest thing is the level of compassion, the level of emotion. So how she felt and saw in certain situations, whether it's at school, whether it's at home, in the neighborhood with friends, it's like a richer emotion, if you will, of caring for other people, where I would say, I don't want to say,

like, we're more crass and we just go about our day and do what we want to do. But she, you know, we do sense other people, but she would sense other people's emotions, and especially in the essence of someone with sad, if someone was hurt. And now, a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first, I hope you'll consider following an army of normal folks on all of our social media channels. For more powerful content, which is also great for sharing,

to help grow the army. Our handle is at Army of Normal Folks on all of them, except Twitter, which I guess is X these days, which is interesting because everybody says X, formerly called Twitter, so we might as well just call it Twitter, whatever, at Army Normal Folks. We'll be right back. What is this place?

Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween penance. Season four of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. Where am I? Why this is the Pendleton. All residents, please return to your habitation. Light stuff on your feet. You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead to Me. Am I under arrest?

We don't like to use that word. Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time. So this is a prison then? No, it's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask, or are you going to do that?

Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the IHART radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, Katie, rapid fire. What do you think about when you think about Black Storytelling? Joy, history, Tony Morrison, long novels, fire. What do you think about when you think about Black storytelling? Joy. History. Toni Morrison. Long novels. Zines. Very complex stories. BTOs. Hood Motifs. I'm reliable narrators. Absurdity. Movie Night. People yelling at the screen.

Respiting my angelous poetry for poetry competitions. Saying lines that you know from a movie that you've seen a million times already in tandem with a person in the movie. Ooh, or saying lines in your normal conversation that you got from TV or... Yeah, obviously, it's hard to condense a story that's so expansive into such a small space. It's cool though, that's why we have the podcast. I'm Katie. And I'm Eves. And on on on theme we tell stories about black stories. Oh you're getting really met of their Katie. Listen to on theme on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Our first call is Mary in Lexington

Kentucky. Mary welcome to the middle. Hello and thanks for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country heading into the 2024 election, you have to get away from the extremes and listen to the middle. Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia. On the new podcast, The Middle with Jeremy Hobson, I'm live every week taking your calls and focusing on Americans in the middle who are so important politically but are often ignored by the media. I did a lifetime democratic voter however I was raised by moderate Republicans

from Michigan. Creating space for a civil conversation about the most contentious issues we face from climate change to artificial intelligence from abortion rights to gun rights. I consider myself to be conservative, cis-clade, but politically independent. Listen to the Middle- with Jeremy Hobson on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I said earlier when I got your email that you know it resonated with me deeply. So my wife is, she might kill me, she's 51 and she has a sister that's in her 40s and

That's the youngest actually like 30s for youngest. She has a brother that's in her 40s But when I met Lisa her little brother was eight his name's Ben and he's special needs and His special needs is a result of him having in Sephulitis when he was an infant Ben is highly functional, but has the middle capacity of, you know, maybe a first grader in that range. And one of the beauties of Ben is that he can go to Florida on trips, right? He can ride a, he can ride an airplane and we can go with us to family vacations and go out to eat and eat well and he can feed himself and dress himself and bathe himself on all

of those things. But I have watched my emlaws spend the last 32 years of their life caring for Ben in a way that is heroic. They gave him every opportunity that they could give him within his capability, staff as normal life as possible, while also protecting him from the things that he can protect himself from. He's been beaten by staff, care staff before. He's endured trauma, and he has it, Tom's expressed his deep sadness and grief that he wasn't normal. Heart breaking. But in the same respect, a real blessing to our family, when I read your email, I felt you deeply.

I felt you deeply. And the reason I want to know what you felt like when you found out that at three that Aaron had, I don't know, I want to call it as burgers, but I think that's woke and correct. Level one, whatever, was a child with level one autism. I think that's why I'm supposed to say it properly. I mean, no disrespect. I think I know a little bit about what kind of shock that was to your family dynamic. And it is to be perfectly candid, gut-wrenching, but it's also what God's put in your life

and it's a blessing you've been giving and you go to work. Absolutely. So what that work looked like from three to call it eight or nine years old for you and Darren. And Darren. And why I asked so much about was Rachel because I also understand the dynamic of my wife when she was a teenager, trying to figure

out her stuff, having a special needs brother, and that's tough. So tell me about that dynamic. You do, well, what, like what you said, you go to work. I mean, you find out whatever interventions you can do, whatever treatment you can do, training anything to try and give them. I mean, she went to speech therapy, occupational therapy. I mean, I think we did every kind of therapy known to man. Then you're driving her all over the place. Uh-huh. Doing everything you can. Yes. And there was, if it's anything like my experience, that there was no thing that might make her life

a little bit better that you wouldn't drop and go to. Yes, absolutely. And y'all did that. Oh, yeah. 100%. How did it affect Rachel? Um. That's a good question.

No, I think that it's I mean I saw what that as you're talking about your wife, Lisa. Yeah. Yeah, I mean you're you're a teen who's trying to figure out your own way in life and you have a special need sibling, and I know that a lot of time and energy is spent trying to, I don't see, make that right, but to help Aaron, and so therefore, you know, there is time that I think that's taken away from the other child. And then it's hard when Rachel's trying to figure out her own thing and she has a sister that wants to come with... Everywhere. ...everywhere and, you know, Rachel would have people over to the house and they'd be down in the basement

and of course Aaron wants to be a part of it. One of the beauties of Asperger's and I call it that because that's what she was diagnosed with. Good if you call it that I can. Yes, you can. She would... Now I lost my turn in thought because we talked about that, but you know Rachel Aaron wanted to be everywhere and oh, I know the blessing was that Aaron got along really well with people older than her and Young kids

It's the it's the peer-to-peer relationship That is the struggle so all of Rachel's friends, she loved them. Oh yeah, well, and she loved them because she could go over and she could talk to them. And I'm sure for her, it was like being normal. What she thought normal was like. But that also got in Rachel's way, so. Well, in the reason I ask is, you know, again, I think it's

really important for people listening to us to understand that when an Aaron or a bin come along in your life, it's a, it's a family occurrence. It is a, it is a life altering in many times for the better. I don't want to make it sound like it's all negative because but there is but you know frankly people cringe when you say there's negatives but there is negatives. It's just the reality of it. There's difficulties. It's tough. It does change family dynamic. It doesn't mean it's all bad and it doesn't mean you resent, but the reality is there's some tough, there's some tough things that come along with all

of it. And it's important for people to understand that parents and families with kids like done or like Aaron with Asperger's are going through their own difficulties to try to make the best life they can for their child. And a little understanding and support not only for the person with Asperger's, but the family's caring for him is really important. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Did you have that? I think in the beginning, you feel like you're on an island.

Exactly why asked. Yeah, right, you know, you feel like you're on an island and you're trying to figure out how to get off. And what's going to be the best way to get off. And through time and being involved in different things, I think that you acquire that group or that support, but in the beginning, you definitely feel like you're out there all by yourself, In the beginning, you definitely feel like you're out there all by yourself. Which we will come back to in terms of the importance of the work that you're now doing. Because I think the work that you're now doing is not only really vital for people with with Asperger's, but also for the family surrounding them.

So, as a parent with the kid struggling with this, and you're struggling, and I know you got to be proud. I mean, she's sweet, she's cooking, she can't for kids, she's playing sports, she's doing all these things, but then she's also a kid with autism, and I'm not making excuses, but I remember Ben. And you can't really expect 12, 13, 14, 15 year old kids to really deeply understand someone who's not like them. And I'm not excusing bullying or being off-putting, but I've seen it, you know, and did Aaron feel different? In what way?

Well, did she get invited to birthday parties? Ah, no. Oh, absolutely, they feel different. Yeah. No, they don't. And did she verbalize how that hurt her? In the essence of saying, you really found out about it more after the fact. Because you wouldn't really know as a parent, if my child's not invited, I don't know that that's happening. She's not inviting. Right.

Until she finds out that so and so had a birthday party and she wasn't invited, well then you find out. So did she ever come to you and say, Mom, why am I not getting invited to the birthday parties? Did she ever verbalize that kind of thing? I, you know, I think that she did. I'm trying to remember one specific occasion, but I can tell you with the beginning of social media, I mean, that's made it. beginning of social media. I mean that's made it. Oh, because she's seeing all our friends on Facebook at parties and stuff or

not our friends, but her classmates or peers, right? And she's not there. Correct. Then it hurt her. Yes. And you knew it. We knew it. And she would say stuff. But I can't, I can't remember like one specific situation where she came to us and I can't I can't remember like one specific situation where she came to us and I can't imagine but yes, I mean the social media is Although it can be beautiful. It's awful. I can't imagine the

I mean you had to have just your heart had to broke for her it breaks now Just thinking about it. I'm sorry to take you back through it. I just want people to be like, No, it's okay. Well, I really want people to understand why you're doing what you're doing and until people really get the depth of this and I understand the depth of it. I've watched it. I've watched people do the,

you know, the making fun of bad jerking hands or whatever, I can't even verbalize what I'm saying, but the, you know, people will do certain things that simulate or articulate non-verally special needs people. And I've watched them do that behind bins back before. And frankly, I've wanted to beat their... I'm right there with you. So I said earlier, but nobody better give me a gun. Yeah, I mean... It will not end well. It's wrong's it's it's wrong on so many levels but what it is is it's it's a lack of maturity and understanding again of what an entire family goes

through. We'll be right back. right back. What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. Where am I?

Why, this is the Pendleton. All residents, please return to your habitation. Light stuff on your feet! You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead to Me. Am I under arrest? We know I can use that word.

Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time. So this is a prison name? No. It's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask or are you going to do that? Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay Katie, rapid fire. What do you think about when you think about black You get your podcasts. Okay Katie, rapid fire. What do you think about when you think about Black storytelling? Joy. History. Tony Morrison. Long novels. Zines.

Very complex stories. BTS Wars. Hood motifs. I'm reliable narrators. Absurdity. Movie night. People yelling at the screen. Residing my angelous poetry for poetry competitions.

Sang lines that you know from a movie that you've seen a million times already in tandem with a person in the movie. Ooh, or Sang lines in your normal conversation that you got from TV or... Yeah, obviously. It's hard to condense a story that's so expansive into such a small space. It's cool though, that's why we have the podcast. I'm Katie. And I'm Eves. And on on theme, we tell stories about black stories.

Ooh, you're getting really met of their Katie. Listen to on theme on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Our first call is Mary in Lexington, Kentucky. podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Our first call is Mary in Lexington, Kentucky. Mary, welcome to the middle. Hello, and thanks for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country, heading into the 2024 election,

you have to get away from the extremes and listen to the middle. Hi, my name is Vancade. I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia. On the new podcast, The Middle with Jeremy Hobson, I'm live every week taking your calls and focusing on Americans in the middle who are so important politically but are often ignored by the media. I did a lifetime democratic voter, however I was raised by moderate Republicans from Michigan. Creating space for a civil conversation about the most contentious issues we face, from

climate change to artificial intelligence, from abortion rights to gun rights I consider myself to be conservative, cis, clean but politically independent Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts I think that it's, and I say this because for anybody who hears this podcast, if you're having struggles with a child, regardless of whether they have autism or not If they're being bullied you have to have to have to just make sure that you are alert Aaron was bullied at church. She was bullied at school She was bullied in sports and

Did you see it? Did you see it? Did you see it happen? Again, you find out after the fact. But how can you go, you know, and at church, she went on a camp retreat. And she was in a cabin with three other girls, and the three other girls went to the counselor. Sorry. I'm sorry. It's okay. Asked if they could leave the cabin.

And they let the other three girls leave the cabin and left our daughter there by herself. On a camp. That church. So it can happen anywhere. It can happen online, which it did. It happened through email. And all these things, and to your point, when you asked me if she told us before, when that email came to her, she walked downstairs with her computer and showed us what it said.

I would say. her computer and showed us what it said. What did you say? Said basically that she was horrible and she should kill herself. And it came from a classmate? Three classmates at school. And she went to a school for children with disabilities. Oh my gosh. So nowhere is safe. I guess you could say and I hate to say that. You know, it breaks my heart, but it's true. So anyway, these things were happening and she had talked prior about not wanting to live and we had been going to the counselor and a psychiatrist and put her on antidepressants

because she was obviously not happy and didn't want to be here anymore. And that's when we went through the big snowstorm in Atlanta that shut the world down and we were actually looking at different schools to move her to a different school. And she had gone and tried a new school the day before and I think that she was scared to death that she was going to have to go back to the other think that she was scared to death, that she was going to have to go back to the other school that she was currently at. And she made a huge thing of lasagna. We were having the neighbors over because everybody was stuck in their houses because it had

snowed. And I went to pick up one of our elderly neighbors in my car across the street because you couldn't walk it was so icy and unfortunately Aaron went upstairs and took her own life in her room. I'm so, so sorry. I can't imagine that pain. And I guess you come home to that? Yeah. My husband was at home, he found her. And then I came in and we tried to call 911 and tried to resuscitate her. Nobody deserves that.

I do need to take a break. Are you good? I'm fine. Strong woman. Do you need a take a break? Are you good? I'm fine. Strong woman. So that's what happens when people get bullied. And that's what happens when kids with special needs

have to live in a world where people are too unin formed and too selfish to care beyond themselves. And like I said before, we heard that outcome of Aaron's life is that this is a thing that an entire family deals with in life and in death. And I think we can all agree. It's one of the worst things in the world is the thought of a parent outliving a child and the trauma that that causes a family. You, however, have managed to figure out a way to turn that on its head, which is what we're going to get to and celebrate. But one last thing before we

get there, what happens next before you go to work? You deal with grief. You've got your kids belongings. You've got another daughter. You've got a husband and a wife who are both traumatized in both feeling all of their own stuff, probably oddly, including maybe even some guilt and what ifs and all of that crap you got to go through. How long did that last? What's today? Yeah. Seriously, it hasn't stopped. It, you know, it's I don't.

How long? I haven't met another parent who's lost a child. I haven't met another parent who's lost a child that still to the day that I meet them, you still are going through all that. You still go through the what ifs. You still go through the guilt. You still wonder what could I have done? What, you know, what could I have done differently? So I don't't think it's, there is no end to that. There won't be an end to that until I see Aaron in heaven. So you're carrying with the rest of your life? I think so.

So, when I was in ninth grade, on daddy number four. I got into a fight that I started. I didn't really start it. He was kind of a jerk, but I started the fight part. And it was an unwise decision by me because he dotted by pretty good. But anyway, I had to go to the coach's office because back then, if you were a football player and you got into a fight that didn't see you, first of all, you went to coach's office and coach Spain, whose past now was my coach. And he took a pretty special interest in me.

He was a guy from a little town called Mollentinesy where they go cotton, no nonsense, old school, raw bone guy, and was that way as a coach. But was one of these guys who had the ability to really be in tune with not just the football player, but the person, you know, and he took, he was really with a person, you know, and he took, he was really a mentor. Somebody I just, I think every high school kid kind of worships their football coach, at least they did back in my day, but there was on another level with him.

And so I was in his office at the door closed and he asked me why I did what I did and I just told him I was angry. And he said, well, you got a lot to be angry about. He said, you know, I understand you're going through a lot of stuff. And he said, and he said, but, you know, you're you're a strapping young guy. And he said, you really have a decision to make Billy back then I was Billy. was Billy said you really have a decision make, Billy said you can decide to be a victim of all of the chaos and trauma and dysfunction that's in your life. And be just like them. Or you can denounce it, recognize it's a wonderful illustration about how not to live your life.

And you can be a rock that other people break themselves on. I love that. He said, you can decide. He said, and I can tell you this right now, you at your age can't control any of the dysfunction you're dealing with in your life, but you can absolutely control what you decide to do about it with it. And I'm not going to say it was that very instant that I had an epiphany, but it was the beginning

of me deciding that I was going to denounce victimhood of my circumstances and be a rock other people can't break themselves on, and that I was going to rise above it and quit feeling sorry for myself and recognize that everybody has trauma, everybody has problems. The level of the difficulty in some people's lives are certainly more than others, but everybody experiences stuff. And I could either fall prey to it, be a victim of it,

and feel sorry for myself and end up just like them, or I could be a rock other people are going to break themselves on. And I think there's certain times in our life that we all have an opportunity to demonstrate our willingness to be a victim or a rock. Absolutely. When is it you decided to be a rock? Four days after she passed away. Tell me about that day. As you were talking about before, we, you know, you were obviously living in the house and all of Erin's belongings are there and

She passed away in her bedroom So we were Going through her stuff Oh gosh, I'm sorry to interrupt you that How do you do that? I don't know. That's it. Days after your child's gone and you're going through her stuff in a room.

We just went in and sat on the floor. And it's kind of that epiphany moment that either we're going to do something or this might kill us and we have another child and we can't do that. So we sat and talked about all those times when Aaron didn't get invited to birthday parties and didn't get the invitation to go to the football games and didn't get asked to do things and realized that if she had had somewhere to go

where she felt safe and could have fun and it had absolutely nothing to do with therapy. Just fun. Just fun. Just fun to be with other kids and meet other kids and create friendships that she probably would still be with us today. So, with Aaron still heavy on their hearts and minds, Stacey and her husband, Darren, created that place, and she tells that incredible story in part two, which is now available, and I'm telling you guys, you do not want to miss it.

But if for some strange reason you do, make sure to join the Army of Normal Folks at NormalFokes.os and sign up to become a member of the movement. By signing up, you'll also receive a weekly email with short episode summaries in case you happen a miss an episode or you prefer reading about our incredible guests. Together Guys, we can change this country. And it starts with you. I'll see you in part two. 13 Days of Halloween Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. If I am under arrest, you have to tell me what I'm charged with. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead To Me. Please,

you've been some kind of mistake. I'm not supposed to be here. How do you know? I'm innocent. I'm any of us truly innocent. Primering October 19th, ending Halloween. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your career is your most valuable asset. Imagine powering it with the unvarnished advice of the most successful chief executives in the world. I'm Mike Stuybe, a three time CEO, Fortune 500 boy leader, and author of the top-selling career guide,

the Career Manifesto, on my new show, Office Hours. I sit down with the leaders shaping our world to help you be the CEO of your own career. Listen to Office Hours with Mike Stuype, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on revisionist History, I am diving into one of the weirdest and most infuriating corners in American life. Guns. All the crazy myths we have about them, everything we get wrong. We're going to talk about TV Westerns, about a crime and a little town in rural Alabama. About the nuttiness of the Supreme Court, it's our biggest series ever ever and one you won't want to miss. Listen to your revisionist history on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or

wherever you get your podcasts.