An Army of Normal Folks - Staff Sgt. David Bellavia: The Only Living Medal of Honor Recipient from the Iraq War

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

This episode is kind of a “betweener”— part Normal Folks and part our special series Supporting Greatness. It may seem like a stretch to call a Medal of Honor recipient normal, but he wasn’t some big wig general, literally went house to house clearing insurgents in Iraq, and it’s not like he campaigned for the medal. But we definitely wanted to interview David about who’s supported him and he powerfully talks about his grandfather, his dad, the men he served with in the “Ramrods”, and a Gold Star mom. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

So now it's like happy Veterans Day. I'm like, well, yeah, but it's not directed at me. It's directed at the other guy that wears camouflage and low crawls to the cuff. If you should know that guy, he wants everyone to know he's a vet. He's got his, you know, airborne wings on his car and he's not doing any of that. I'm not, I'm staying low. Then this phone call comes and it's like, this is all happening and I'm thinking, well, maybe it's not really happening. Maybe there's a way to do this on the down low. Maybe you could say no.

Maybe you could say, I don't, I don't need it. I'm good. Thanks. Give it to someone else. And when that news broke and I had like a guy at work that was like, you're not gonna believe this. There's a guy with your name, Getty the Mental of God. Oh, he's a deep-in-dome.

But he was like, you can't be you. You're the guy that is on my fantasy football game. You know, you're not that guy? Welcome to an Army of Normal Folks, I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach and intercity Memphis in the last part. It unintentionally led to an Oscar for the film about our team. It's called undefeated.

I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people and nice suits, talking big words that nobody uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks, us, just you and me deciding, hey, I can help. That's what Staff Sergeant David Belavir, the voice we just heard is done. Now, David isn't exactly normal.

This guy, he's a medal of honor recipient. But we're featuring him as part of our special series called Supporting Greatness, where we interview those who've achieved public greatness about the unsung heroes and normal folks who supported them and shaped their lives. However, David still kind of is a normal dude. He wasn't some bigwig general in an office, but he literally went house to house in a rock, clearing each of those houses of insurgents alongside as men often fighting literally in hand-to-hand combat. And it's not like he asked for the Medal of Honor or campaigned for it. That's why I call this episode a bit tweener, a little bit normal folks, and a little bit of supporting

greatness. I cannot wait for you to meet David, right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. Where am I?

Why, this is the Pendleton. All residents, please return to your habitation. Lights up! On your feet! You're new here, please return to your habitation. Light stuff on your feet! You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead To Me. Am I under arrest? We know I can use that word.

Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time. So this is a prison then? No, it's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask or you going to do that? Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Our first call is Mary in Lexington, Kentucky. Mary, welcome to the middle. Hello, and thanks for having me.

If you really want to know what's going on in this country heading into the 2024 election, you have to get away from the extremes and listen to the middle. Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia. On the new podcast, The Middle with Jeremy Hobson, I'm live every week, taking your calls and focusing on Americans in the middle who are so important politically but are often ignored by the media.

I did a lifetime democratic voter. However I was raised by moderate Republicans from Michigan. Creating space for a civil conversation about the most contentious issues we face, from climate change to artificial intelligence, from abortion rights to gun rights. I consider myself to be conservative, cis-colled, but politically independent. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Marissa Fallberg. And I'm Steven Wolf-Bereda. We want to invite you to join us for a new podcast for Ann knew. So what's actually new about brand new? Well Steven and I are not only working C-suite executives, we're friends. My friend Marissa is actually one of the most influential chief marketing officers in the world. And hey, Steven has a story career across finance, tech, and multicultural entertainment. Because that, we've got a lot to say about the world of tech, entertainment, advertising,

and media marketing, what we actually call teen. We always adore each other, but don't always agree with each other, and that's part of the fun. It's real talk from the inside, sometimes personal talk too, and it's meant for everyone rising in business or just interested in it. In each episode we give our hot takes on hot topics and always answer what's on your minds too. Just look for the brand new podcast on the iHeart Podcast Network, or wherever you listen.

It's a brand new conversation that you won't want to miss. David, Belavia. What's up, bruv? How you doing? You know, I'm, how you doing? I'm good. How you doing? I'm, I'm fantastic. I'm learning so much. Life is an education, and I've got a master's degree on football, college, Mississippi, everything. Bring a New Yorker to Memphis, anything could happen. That's right. It's a beautiful town, though. I appreciate it.

Welcome to an Army of Normal Folks. So occasionally, inside our little podcast of an Army and Normal folks, we do special segments called supporting greatness. And what that's about is people who've reached what we would call great heights and briefly talking about what they've done, but more importantly, talking about who helped that the normal people, the army of normal people that supported them to reach their greatness, but you're kind of a, you're kind of a tweener, because not only have you reached greatness, you're also just a normal folk. And, and so we're going to unpack all of that today if you will allow me to unpack that with you

and start kind of with who you are, where you came from, why you ended up, where you ended up, what you did, and what you've done afterwards. But we're gonna reverse engineer this. So I'm gonna start at part of toward the end game of your story and then we'll back into it. But I don't think anything would explain to our listeners any better than a video of

you at the Hall of Heroes, right, at the Pentagon, I think, is my saying that right? Yes, sir. And this is the day after you received the Medal of Honor, which is the highest military honor that our country gives. And there's only only what 63 or 4 current living metal of honor winners in the world, right? Right. And there's only one from Iraq. That's right. And that's you. That's living. Living. Living. Yeah. You're one of one, bro. Yeah. It's yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. That's weird to think about, but you're a set of one. Yeah. And we're going to unpack that., you're you're a set of one. Yeah.

And we're going to unpack that. And I know you have a lot of humility about it, but you have a deep story about it too. But first for our listeners and viewers, I want to play the clip of you at the holiday here. There are things that you say in this that I've watched it 15 times. And I, people have watched undefeated and heard speeches and read my book and stuff and said, you know, coach, it's so inspirational. All I got to do is listen to you for three minutes. I'm ready to run through a wall.

Well, dude, I hear this and I'm ready to, I'm ready to defend every person inside our borders. It just absolutely shakes me every person inside our borders. It just absolutely shakes me every time I hear it. So here we are, your brief acceptance speech at the Holy Heroes in the Pentagon. Our military should not be mistaken for a cable news gav fest show. We don't care what you look like.

We don't care who you voted for. Who you worship, what you worship, who you love. It doesn't matter if your dad left you millions when he died or if he knew who your father was. We have been honed into a machine of lethal moving parts that you would be wise to avoid if you know what's good for you. We will not be intimidated. We will not back down. We've seen war. We don't want war.

But if you want war with the United States of America, there's one thing I could promise you so help me God. Someone else will raise your sons and daughters. We fight. We fight so our children never have to. We fight for one day when our children and our enemies' children can discuss their differences without fear or loathing. We fight so that anyone out there thinking about raising arms against our citizens or allies realize the futility of attrition against a discipline, professional and lethal force, built to withstand anything you can dream of throwing at us. Americans

want this kind of country. Americans want this kind of world. And we stand ready to defend it, to protect us, so help us God. May God bless this beautiful army. May God bless our Marine Corps, our Navy, our Air Force, and Coast Guard. May God bless our allies. And we already know that God blessed America, because it gave us the greatest fighting force

this world has ever seen, two-two infantry at the first infantry division. Thank you, Ramrods, duty first, dukes. Thank you very much. I do not know how any American cannot hear that and bristle with humility and pride for men like you who served our country. When you hear yourself say that, what do you feel? You know, it's so weird. First of all, there's not supposed to be like a, a pause line in those speeches. You're supposed to get the metal of honor, eat big shrimp and like go work it.

Rate the on, you know, that's what you're supposed to do. You get to have a wage. You're supposed to, that speech is traditionally been a speech where you're like, you know, the country has bestowed this upon one person. Let me tell you why that was the best decision you've ever made. You know, and then you do like an audi Murphy

and do a Christmas cookbook and release a country album or something. I didn't know there's no there's no guidebook as to what to do with this thing. And all I thought about the entire time is that I sat at Forbending, Georgia, polishing my boots and cleaning my weapon every single day, reading these citations. And I thought they were like the Marvel adventures to me. You know, I'm reading about Gary Latrell from Vietnam, Gary Biker, Drew Dicks, you know, all these legends, Hershey Maya Mora from the Korean War, whose family was interned as Japanese Americans and a camp. No reason to serve his country, no reason to defend America. His country put

him in a prison camp just because of who he was. That guy joins in the Korean war and piles up communist Chinese like Lincoln logs and taking prisoner war gets the was told he comes home as a prisoner war after the war ends and, and as told the president wants to meet him. He's like, I'm good. Just let me go home. They're like, no, you get the metal of water, but he's like, I don't care. I just want to go home. These, these stories are legendary. You meet these guys and you're like, you know, I, I would, I just want to meet you. I just want to be in your presence. I just want to, you never consider yourself. So, so what I decided to do was be the first,

you know, well, I wanted to reinvent the way the metal bonner is given. Cause I'm not naive enough to think that we're not going to have wars in the future and we're going to have other recipients. I want them to realize that everything we've done is because someone, you know, like that old country, uh, you saw the news, tell these stories. If

you ever see a turtle on a fence post, it's because someone put them there. Yeah. You didn't climb up. But everything we've got is because someone put us there. They put us in a position. And so I want this to be about the team. I want this to be about what we truly say we are. This is who we are. No one wants to be a machine gunner. They want to be a machine gunner and a squad with a leader that cares just enough about them as they do themselves. And that was important to me. And I wanted, I wanted people to know who my team was, why they were important. And most importantly, we fought with the tenacity we fought with because we lost our friends. And we defended and avenged them. I want to again, I preface the

conversation we're having without because to me, what you're talking about now is the end game, but let's get there first. What you grow up? Tell me about you as a kid. Tell me, you weren't the guy standing up there. The guy we just saw and heard. That wasn't David the kid. Tell me yeah, tell me about that.

Tell me tell me about the normal guy David and the kid and who he grew up and what he did and all that. Uh, I'm the youngest of four boys. Got it. My dad was a dentist. It's success in my family. Where? In in right outside of an hour north of Buffalo, but right between Buffalo and Rochester, New

York, right off Lake Ontario, farm town, population, 800. You played sports. You were in the science club. We needed the bodies. And you're also playing a troughbone. You know, we didn't have a very large school. It was New York in name only, you know, more cows and apples than, you know, we didn't have a very large school. It was New York in name only, you know, more cows and apples than, you know, population or visitors.

No traffic light. No traffic light in my hometown. So we grew up in this town called Lentville, New York and my dad put everything, everything was my education. You went and got a degree and became a professional. If you wanted to make Belive as proud, you were a professional. That's what you had to do. So, old as brother went out, two brothers went to seminary.

One became a, I got three professors in my family, all with masters. I think we got a PhD in double masters. Like they weren't just set with one. They were all extremely intelligent, extremely at the top, you know, they're successful at the top of what they did. And I was like, and then my granddad would come around all the time and he was a World War II vet. And for some reason, because I was the youngest,

I just found myself going, I walks with him and he would just start rattling off these stories at like a six year old war stories. Oh, yeah, but like graphic, but I didn't think those guys often told war stories. I don't know what was wrong with him because he didn't, he didn't do it to anyone else. Oh, it was just you. It was just me, but it was like, wait at an age where I was like, so the Femoral Artery is the bleeder. Grasms. You know, he would tell me stuff that I was like, you know,

but there was nobility. He was talking about stuff not to shock me. He was talking about like true nobility. Like this is when you can get together in a world that you don't understand. You don't understand adults. You don't understand, you don't understand adults, you don't understand people that are different than you. You got all these people, all the reasons why we're tribal and separated, if there's one thing that could just put you

together as a unit, it's a great experience in your life. And you will never have experienced life until you've gone through that. Where did your grandfather start? When? Where? Where? Also, he is a Normandy vet. Wow.

He did D-Day plus 29. He got the head's really. D-Day plus 29. So, D-Day, everyone thinks that Normandy beach landing, right? Right. So that's D-Day, H hour. That's the first day. D-Day plus one means the day after that beach landing.

So he's 30 days there. He was 29 days after the beach landing. Because when he got there, so he came in with Patton. And really, when you think of your grandfather served under Patton. Yeah, he was a Patton's army. And he did Sicily, North Africa. He did the battle of the bulge. He did pretty much the battle of the bulge. Yeah, he got it all. He got the, the tour of Italy. So, so looking back on it, did those walks and the stories about grouping shots at the physical artery. Do you think subconsciously that might have just planted a seed for you later in life?

I just all, no, I wanted to do it from that day. I was just afraid to tell my parents that I wanted to because they wanted to. I was a dentist. You were supposed to be a dentist or a theologian or a two masters, not a meathead. My dad would say that life is about taking people out of pain. And it took me until I was like 22 to realize, I think I want to focus on the pain part. I want to be the deliverance of that. Is that how do I break that down? Look, you're religious, you're Christian, you don't hit people, you you turn the other cheek, you pray for people, you talk about love,

I understood all these things growing up, but I also could not stand in justice. I could not stand, you know, this fight between, this is wrong, and we're not gonna do anything about it. Like that is what kept me up at night. And I got far too into when Sadat got assassinated in Egypt. I wanted to, you know, I do, I remember telling, like, we can't, you can't go to work that.

Sadat has been assassinated. It was like, no one cares about Sadat. What's wrong with you? You know, but these were the things that I was focused on because I thought it was noble. I thought it was an adventure, but I also realized that I don't want to be that person that everything is hyperbole in every sport I played. And we weren't good at any of them. You know, we were so small, we were just getting, but I remember sitting on the bench down 40 points and a guy

goes for a three point shot. And I thought no one's going to say this. I've got to be the one to say this. I don't care how big you are. I don't care how strong you are. If you shoot another three point shot and you're up by 40 points, I'm going to break your arm. I'm going to break your arm. I'm going to do it for the team. You know what I mean? I just, I, I, I, I was an injustice. It was absolutely unnecessary. And I will stand up and say stop it. But, but losing as a crew,

that was something that I found we're in this together. No matter what, we're in this together. The rich kid, the poor kid, the white kid, the black kid, we're doing this together. No matter what we're in this together. The rich kid, the poor kid, the white kid, the black kid, we're doing this together. It's us against them. I loved that and the army, you know, presented that for me. I, um, I'm going to producer for undefeated. And if it wasn't for rich, I wouldn't be sitting here interviewing you because nobody would have ever made a movie. It wouldn't, wouldn't the Academy Award. Nobody would care about anything I have to say.

Through meeting rich, I thought he was this Hollywood weirdo because he and Dan and TJ, the directors, you know, they were 29 30 showed up to Memphis and skinny legged jeans and goofy shirts wearing scarves and September in Memphis. I mean, first of all, you just don't do that, right? That's against a lot of co-workers. Yeah, well, so anyway, I found out Rich was actually a East Coast guy from went to university to see and Dan and TJ and Rich are now three of my

best friends and So obviously I've stayed and I mean I talked to Rich and Dan and TJ, you know, at least by weekly and have for 10 years and So I'm always asking you know, what are you guys working on? I remember when Dan and TJ did the Tina movie and LA 92 and they won an Emmy and after we're in the Oscar and celebrating with them that. And of course, all the things rich is done after. And I remember sitting at home one night and I said, what's new? And he said, man, I've just got an option to this book. And I said, what is it? And he said, man, I've just got an option to this book. And I said, what is it?

And he said, well, have you ever heard of David Balevia? And I said, believe it or not, I think I have. I heard an interview and he said, yeah, man, he's this awesome guy, Metal of Honourdude, and he wrote this book about how they went house to house in Flusia. And he said, and I want to try to do something with that project. And so that's how I was introduced to you was through Rich. And I was like 9.30 at night. And so I just opened the book on this, you know, he sent a, an attachment on a text really and opened it.

And it full in the morning, I'd finished your book. Five straight hours. I read your book on myself. I did not wear glasses prior to this moment, but you were a Mars. I was absolutely, I would, I won't lease it up in the middle of the night twice to say, listen to this. It affected me. And we're going to talk about some of those stories, but first, the most important story

is you were, I think, a theater arts major. You know, I get so much hell for this and I want to preface by, and I was a pre-med major. Okay. And I was a minor in theater. Okay. But with the army, no, no, but with the army, they're just like, oh, this is too good. You know, we got to, oh, that one is good. And this guy's wearing tights and pippin.

We got to get that photo. I don't want to sensationalize. No, so, so you were, I was a student. You were a love theater. Because again, I went to a school where you could play sports, do theater, do the band. It was one of those things. And you got the Robert Gimera look going now. I got the Robert. I'm, so I'm, I don't get me wrong. I'm, I'm still doing my head shots and going to audition. I'm still working on my one-ad play But no theater for me though was it was interesting to just meet again I was so I was blown away by these kids like the war like you know mascara and and braze with the scars Yeah, the middle of my set. Yeah, and And they walk, and I wanted to be a part

of just understand these guys where they're from. Because ultimately, I believe in my life. And I see this with young people today, when I was young, and I'm reading history, it's we are searching for that, drama in our life. And what really, what the combat experience is, is everything that we talk about, and die for you. I'd kill for that I would do anything now you're in a situation where everything is real that is real drama

There's I don't need to I don't need to perform grapes of wrath Have to be shot at with a 50 count. I'm good. I'm set. Now I need to focus on being the best person I could be treated people with dignity respect and making America better. But everything else is like the audition to that moment. Well, I think people are in search for it. I was as a young kid too. And along those lines, and, you know, I'm drawing an odd parallel here, but it's something I've thought about since you and I, when you graciously agreed to join me was, interestingly to me, a big part of your story started with things going on in your house and ended with things going on in a house in Flusia. That's about the story in your house and ended with things going on in a house in Flusia, tell us about the story in your house.

So, you know, I had this idea of who I was because I told myself that every day, this is the man I was going to be. This is the man I want to be. And when I was confronted with the opportunity to be that man, I realized I'm none of those things. Tell us about that story. I'm home from school and I'm none of those things. Tell us about that story. I'm home from school and I'm just doing some yard work.

My mom had had neck surgery, so my dad was taking care of her. And I had my dog out back and I heard a car door close, figured they had guests, but thought it was weird because parents weren't taking guests. My mom was in bed and she was pretty recovering from major neck surgery. And all of a sudden, I just, I see people walking through the house in the back window and one of them doesn't have a shirt on and I'm thinking, now, that's, that's definitely not a guest. That's no one's. You know,

you better, you might take your shoes off out of respect, but you're not taking that shirt off. That's some crazy stuff. So I, I, I kind of approach him. I could front one of them have a conversation. I could just see that his eyes are just glassy and he's not there. And I, and you know, my dog is trying to go at him. I got a rot wild about a 120 pound rotty. And I thought to myself, I don't want to lawsuit, you know, if that dog rips into shreds, you know, they might sue us or something. We, there's a way to get these boys out. It's a misunderstanding.

Maybe their fisherman lost from the water and just came up. D-d-d-d-d-lost shirtless fisherman in your house. I'm telling you, it doesn't make any sense, but I'm trying to rationalize what's going on. When I see what's apparent where they've taken garbage cans and they're just cutting cords and throwing VCRs and this was in the late 90s. They're robbing you. They're robbing us.

They're robbing your parents home. Right, it's a home invasion. So I immediately use the basement door and head down and grab that Ramitane 70. And I'm thinking, for the rest of my life, I'm gonna be the guy who just blasted someone's head off. How are you gonna be treated? Are you doing it for, you know,

are you giving them a right to, in New York state, they better have a AK-47 in their hand. I mean, the laws of New York about defending your home are pretty embarrassing. I say that too bad for, you know, who's used to the way to properly defend your, so I'm going through all this stuff in my head. And I realize I don't even have the guts to do this. I'm reading that script in my head

that I want to be this person, but I'm not. And I get upstairs and these guys just walk by me and no fear. And they're just like with all your stuff with every with all of the stuff loaded in the car, loading the vehicle and you're just sitting there. And I just, you know, I just I don't know if it was the flesh that was weak or the heart that was weak or what was weak, but something was weak. But I could deal with that because that was just me and them, you know, that no one's going to tell that story. You were high. You were, you know, you were, that's not true at all.

That did not matter. I put up a fight. But when my dad came out and saw everything and his first reaction was to get in his car with a 44 and head out after him. That's what the father does, right? And so he was aware of what the problem was. He took it upon himself to go give chase.

Now these guys end up arrested, they do seven years, you know, they got, they punished, they were punished for their crimes. But the look my father gave me was worse than what those guys did. Cause that, that is what comes at me at two o'clock in the morning. Was that look shame embarrassment? Uh, you're not what I've hoped you'd be at this age. You're not ready. You obviously don't have this thing handled. I'm going to handle it.

And I just was like, I got to get, I got to get to a place where I can do something that I'm uncomfortable doing. Does it not, the irony to me, that it started for you with guns and perpetrators in a house, and it came to you, which we'll get to in a little bit in a house. Does the irony of that strike you?

After the after rich middle mouse explained that to me. Oh, it took a guy from Hollywood guy with a scarf and Tennessee to know what to me was far more that I just never wanted to disappoint someone I love so much. And I looked and disappointed my dad. You mean you're just a normal kid. That's my normal folks.

That's it. I just my dad meant every he was super mean. People can talk big and bad all they want. Right. But I'm, you know, um, I've played football and sports against much bigger people. I've been in a few fist fights in my life. I've been shot at down a hallway inside a home before.

And I know what the, I know a bullet sounds like this when it goes past you. It goes, it's got that sound to it because I remember it. But having said all that, if a guy's got a VCR in a bag and he's probably on math, even if I'm holding a gun, people wouldn't talk all they want to, but the ability to level off and take that life gives more than I have some people in the world boss. But that just makes you normal to me. I mean, absolutely.

And now, but the craziest thing is that just understanding that you have to do that inventory to know where you're at. Because if you're building your life on just delusion and you're like, you know, well, these opportunities haven't happened because, you know, the star the star is on a line. Well, you don't even have the skill set. You don't even have the emotional temperament to deal with it if it comes your way.

So there's so much more about, you know, understanding that violence is what everyone, no one wants it in their life. No one wants to be the one that has to perform anything in a violent act. I live my entire life to be away from violence and to never be in a situation where I have to be around it. But controlling fear was something I had no idea. Fear was always get away from it. It's your instinct, your body.

It's only natural, right? Right. And once you realize that your brain is just there to protect us and the brain is going to put crazy messages and you've got to just put barricades in your brain to say, you're not in charge. My heart's going to take over now. So would you say at that moment and Tom, this is my word. Would you say that you were a coward? Absolutely. You would.

Yeah, I would. I used the other words. Which, yeah, I know. Five letters. Yeah, no, no, that sounds like Mississippi. Right. A little bit. Right.

But that's what you would say. I absolutely, it's what I said. That's why I mean, listen, I, I, my whole trajectory was planned. I know what school I was going to. I was taking the MCAT. I was on that trajectory. This was that life fork in the road where I said, no matter what comes out of this, I'm not going to be that person.

And so then you said, I'm going to boot camp. I'm going to the army. I'm joining the infantry. I'm not going to, I don't want to be a combat canary. Just let your grandfather. Yeah, exactly. No, right. But it was more important that I wanted the whole experience.

I wanted to punch the ticket. I'm not, I don't want to get a skill. My skill has to be me. What's this? I never want my father to look at me this way again. No, this was, I don't ever want to be in a position where I ever can't handle it. I want to handle every situation.

I want to know when to use my brain. I want to know when to put my foot in their face. I want to know when the proper time is. I want to know how to be way over my head and be able to say, I don't even have any idea of how to handle this. So now I'm going to use what I have in front of me and the people around me to get myself out of it. So it's safe to say you grew up the youngest before with in a very small town, almost

like a he-haul salute town. Right. And you grew up with expectations of school with a father's adenist, probably not wealthy, but just good white-called family. And had full expectations are going off to school. And this significant incident happened. And when you looked in the mirror, you saw yourself to be as you described a coward. And you wanted to rise above that. And your answer was, I'm going to go to the army and I'm gonna grow up and grow myself into more strength.

I knew I had it in me. I knew that I was, I knew that it was important enough to me that I wasn't afraid to get my act kicked. I wasn't afraid to stand up to a kid that was 18 when I was 12. I wasn't afraid to say something that no one wanted to say. But you worked tapped into it. But I was not, I did not have the ability to know really how to how to you don't believe it or not. Everyone talks about the military is, you know, the thinking that's involved. This is where you go when you can't go to college or you get so impregnant. All I was surrounded by were intellects and the army. I got it. I'm really and

and sometimes, you know, you don't have a degree, you're not going out there for the road scholar program, but it's the smartest person I've ever met in my life as a person that just says, take a step back to explain something difficult to a layman is actually the definition of intelligence. Take something really super difficult and explain it to someone who doesn't know anything about it and they walk away with saying, I get something complicated. That's the person I want to be around.

Now, it's your coach. That's all my life mentors were people that cared enough about me to tell me the things mom and dad love me too much to tell me. You know, it was always the coach that was you suck. And're not working hard and you're telling me that you're in the gym You're in the gym for what are you doing in the gym? You know, you're not doing the things. I'm gonna hold you accountable that accountability All these drill sergeants all these non-commissioned officers all they did was give me the tough love

No one in my world had ever given me. And you were looking for it. I needed it. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first, I hope you'll consider following an army of normal folks on all of our social media channels. For more powerful content, which is also great for sharing, to help grow the Army. Our handle is at Army of Normal Folks on all of them, except Twitter, which I guess is X these days,

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Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our first call is Mary in Lexington, Kentucky. Mary, welcome to the middle. Hello, and thanks for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country, heading into the 2024 election, you have to get away from the extremes and listen for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country heading into the 2024 election,

you have to get away from the extremes and listen to the middle. Hi, my name is Venkat, I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia. On the new podcast, The Middle with Jeremy Hobson, I'm live every week, taking your calls and focusing on Americans in the middle, who are so important politically but are often ignored by the media. I did a lifetime democratic voter, however I was raised by moderate Republicans from Michigan. Creating space for a civil conversation about the most contentious issues we face, from climate change to artificial intelligence, from abortion rights to gun rights.

I consider myself to be conservative physically but politically independent. Listen to the Middle of Jeremy Hobson on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mo Raka, and I'm excited to announce season four of my podcast, Mo Bituaries. I've got a whole new bunch of stories to share with you about the most fascinating people and things

who are no longer with us. From the moment I'm here, I'm here to tell you I've got a whole new bunch of stories to share with you about the most fascinating people and things who are no longer with us. From famous figures who died on the very same day to the things I wish would die like buffets. People actually take little tastes along the way with their fingers. Oh, they do. Oh, no, I'm so sorry. Do you need a minute? This is the only interview where I've needed a spit bucket. I'm so sorry. We'll tell you about the singer who helped define cool.

And the sports world's very first superstar. To call Jim Thorpe the greatest athlete in American history is not a stretch because no athlete before a sinc is done, what he did. Listen to Mobituaries with Moroca on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So we're going to skip ahead and then we're going to skip ahead in your world and then we're going to go back because again, I think we've established, you just grew up a normal

kid, but you're by definition not normal. You are one of one in this country. And we want to understand all of the people that supported that. But first, it's really important that all our listeners hear the story that got you there. And I want to ask first how comfortable you are going through the day you walk through that front door of that house in Fallujah Okay, good so We're gonna get how that happened, but again, we're jumping forward

Everything I've read is that You guys were literally clearing houses in Flusher, door to door. And it was the most intense urban warfare since Vietnam. And there were American soldiers getting wounded and some dying daily in this requirement for you guys to literally go house to house door to door, clearing out buildings of people whose soul desire on earth was to eliminate you. And you happen on one of these houses, and I'm just going to let you take it from there. Because at the end of it, you lived and five bad guys were dead. And I think some of it even included Handan combat.

And I really want you in your own words. I've read all about it. I want to hear from you and I want our listeners to hear what that was that day. So just for people to understand that American fighting history, if you look at our military and our wars, the urban fights that we train to fight, our standard operating procedure, is the battle of Verdun, which Americans weren't involved in. That was the French and the Germans of World War I. We talk about the Battle of Grozny in modern day Georgia. That's the Soviet Union and the Nazis, and the Battle of Berlin.

Another three epic fights that we trained for that we've never participated in. So America's got the Battle of Seoul Korea in 51. We've got Way City in Vietnam. If you look at those engagements just like Somalia and Black Hawk Down, 97% of our casualties are outside of the building. The danger in an urban fight is getting to the objective. That's where you're getting hit, right? Well, because they've got cover in a building in your street. And you're in the street in the middle of a city and you've got, you know, built everything's built up. So you're getting popped from all sides, doors, windows, everything, alleyways.

Getting to the objective is where traditionally casualties come from. In the first, you know, two and a half, three years of the war in Iraq, we are literally writing the book on urban close quarter combat to the point where we're changing basic training. In real time, I mean, think about it. By the year 2005, a kid has come through basic training. They're going into shoothouse and basic training. You don't, you're on a range, you learn how to salute, you figure out how to

get your sideburns even in basic training. You don't go, you don't go in a shoothouse. I mean, this is, we're totally changing the way we fight because of that urban fight. That's how absolutely of a dice roll it is. So now you got seal team six and all these high-speed guys. I don't care if you're seal team six, you're delta force or your Thor. You walk through a door, there's a machine gun on the other end of that building, you're getting shot. It's the way it is. So you take all the training and all the skill and then you realize, it is. So you take all the training and all the skill and then you realize, I'm not in control of any of this. None of this I'm in control of. So what I have to do is not only physically train you for the fight, but I've got a psychologically trained that 19, 20 year old kid for what's going

to happen in the fight, because it's not enough about killing you or injuring you. It's leaving you to psychologically destroy the people coming in after you. That's what the enemy's trying to do. They're trying to fix you. There's no way they're going to make it out. Bomb drops on their building. There's no way they're going to make it out. They know they're dead. The moment they fight us, their job is to hurt you, kill you, and mess with your brain

so you can't fight tomorrow. So I got to take these guys and put them through something I've never experienced myself and get them in a way where they're able to hopefully get my rank and be able to educate that next 19 year old kid coming along. Because I think you're gonna die. Add no doubt that we are all gonna die. I mean, it was Fitsy, my best friend. So you're given orders to go clear so many movies and so much is written that we get

to sensitize the reality of 19 and 20 year old kids waking up and saying, this is my job. I'm going to do it for the guy next to me, but I'm probably going to die today. So the key is that there's two parts of your brain. There's everyone is, look, you put on your best suit and you go to the dance, but you know full well what you look like. Right, you know what you look like. And you know the type of, yeah.

So average doesn't date the prom coin, dude. The point is you know the truth, and then you have what you have to tell yourself to be able to get through the prom without a date, right? I get it. You know that this is real, and you know that people are coming home and boxes every single day,

but you also know it's not gonna happen to you or anyone around you. So you are constantly living in the world of your subordinates, you love them, like they're your children. You know them, like they're your children. You know how to motivate them. You know what pisses them off.

You know what they appreciate. You know what they hate. You know what they're allergic to. You know who they like at home. Every aspect of my subordinates, I have to, if I'm gonna lead people, I gotta know who they are. I gotta know what motivates them

where they come from. So now, I wanna tell them all you have to do the easiest job in the world. Just do what I tell you to do, right? And if something happens to me, your job is to think about what I would do and leave me behind and move forward. The biggest mistake you can make in a fight

is to fail you to make a decision. That's the sin that's unforgettable. You screw up, I can fix it. You make the right decision, we all copy you and we do the right thing. But if you can't make a decision and you nut up and that's what happens when bullets are flying, you wanna stop and take your shot.

You wanna stop and when you stop, that train stops and now we get what's called that funnel of death, right? That breach, that doorway becomes a kill sack because everyone is styled up in it. Right. So the job is, if I'm screaming for Jesus and for my mom, your job is to not render aid. You leave me there screaming. You move forward.

You take out that threat or all dead. Everyone come back and get me. Hopefully. Hopefully they remember that part. Not just continuing to move out, but you're right, though. Then after it's secure, that's when we come back. So you're taking away all of the thought process of a subordered to say, if I'm not worried, you're not worried. If I don't stop, you don't stop.

Now, that's great for them because now they have to be like my, my sergeant charge. He's rock, he's running this thing. Now you got to be that guy, right? So now you can say all you want, but you better not go back to when you were in that house and you nut it up because you got scared. That's a long way from a dude who watched two guys carry his dad's VCR out of this house. It, it, well, you know, combat has a way to fix that. Well, but you can't, you can't lie.

You can't, but you can't, there's no performance art in the world. I mean, you know, these guys that, and you would know, you can, Tom Hanks might convince the DMV you know that his registrations out overdue You can't can you when it when it's real and you're either gonna be that person you're not gonna be that person so you enter the house We get into a building You know tend to eight to ten bad guys block of houses. We got a reporter with us from Time Magazine. And by the way, Faluja's, you know, everyone's embedded, everyone wants to know what's going on back home.

You've got everyone's covering the story in real time. There's press everywhere. Everywhere. So now you're all worried about, you know, so some- Is it your job to protect him too? It's hard, yeah. It would, well, the army.

Yeah, the story's got to get filed. But the fact is that he's our responsibility. He's one of us. You know, he's got to be safe. We walk into, we know it's a, we got guys. We trapped them. We locked them into a section and that is such a gift in Iraq. We're fighting ghosts.

They'd clack off a bomb. You never saw the enemy. You never made eye. When you got a chance to see the enemy, you had to fix them. You had to, they're not moving. If I know you're in a house, I want to run in there because you're not going to hurt

someone tomorrow, you're not going to hurt me tomorrow. I'm going to take you out right now. We got these guys locked in, and now it's just this methodic door to door to house to, you know, it's, you know, 20, 30 buildings. And each building, so is it, and I'm imagining right to think like a small apartment complex? No, no, it's like a city block,

and it's an upscale section. It would be like the night, the rich section of Fallujah. Are you kidding? Oh no, it's beautiful. And it's, so it's, it's houses inside of buildings, concrete three story structures, each building probably had 15 rooms. So we're talking like three or four thousand square foot houses. Some of them larger than that. But you gotta understand that, that the Iraqi people are very insecure people. So they build their homes to be invaded.

They're, they're protecting themselves from the Saddam regime. Okay. So they build their homes to be invaded. They're protecting themselves from the Saddam regime. Okay. So this is a neighborhood action. A neighborhood of high walled, thick structure, the houses. Yeah. All multi upscale mansion houses with literally gun slits in the roof, gun slits in the roof, uh, protection areas. Uh, I don't think I ever, it's my own prejudice, but I just thought fluja, a rock, um, armpit, uh, just a bunch of slums like you see in some all your something. They got their share of slums, but this is a nice neighborhood with big houses. There's a section of Fallujah that were just like you said, and we'd bombed them and there's a rubble everywhere and that's rough too, because when you got the rubble, you can hide in that rubble and you got to be careful. But this area was untouched

and it was the Ascari district like nice yards. Beautiful. Park hitting. Oh, no, listen, the story of rolling through Beverly Hills of Fallujah. The, yeah, it's like clear in houses. It was like the home and gardens cartel version. You know, like you should not be laughing during this story. That's funny. You've got, you've got the escurry district literally in Arabic means soldiers district.

So all the retired generals, if they served to them with honor and distinction, they got a big old house, a big old beautiful house, but those generals also knew they might find something out. And so I want to make sure no one else comes. So my, so each of these houses were little forts all for it. Wald compounds, wire on the top top broken glass embedded in the concrete. It was it sucked and the other thing is that they're dense and they're thick and so you can't hear Did that was at a gunshot and the whole city is blowing up got Marines over here. You got army. Every the whole city is you know, a the size of Tampa Bay, Florida is invaded. Every missiles and rockets are going everywhere. So,

what we realized in, when the 556 with our M4s, if you shoot through drywall, that's going through drywall, right? They'll tell you that an AR is not a home defense weapon. You're going to reach out and tell some of the day. In concrete, that bullet for the 556, the 223, it's like tick-tack toe. It's bring don't think ricocheting everywhere. So it, so you gotta be careful with your shoot. So now my feet around make come back and let somebody ride in the king. Fitsy and I, when we were rolling out, whether we were on the Iranian border, North, South, no matter where we were, we were the one in doubt shoot about crew. You know what I mean?

We were not afraid to overpower you with gunfire. That's how we got through as many fights as we got through. But in a confined space, that is absolutely dangerous because now you're going to hit your own, you're going to shoot your own right you're going to shoot your own and what's the point? Frags are great in the movies and the video games throw grenade and Let the good people the defense contractor that made that fuse worry about the aftermath in a confined space with no ventilation It's smoke It's a frag it shot little pieces everywhere, but now it just filled the room with smoke. You can't see every you can't see but guess what?

They're in that house. They know where the door is. You've never been in that house. I mean the bin Laden raid is Seal team six are studs. They spent three months going through what they thought that house looked like. These kids from the National Guard, active duty, 19 year old, 20 year old, 40 year olds, every, every adventure is, you know, what's the door look like? Where, what does a house look like? No one has any idea of what's going on. But in Fallujah, they were knocking stairwells out. They were knocking floors out. We like to go from roof to roof. Instead of going roof all the way down, go through the front door, get shot at. We'd like to surprise them, maybe go in the roof,

maybe jump through a window. You would jump onto a rooftop, and there was no floor. Wow. And you would drop to the next story. They knocked that out. You would go from the roof all the way down to the bottom floor of that home and they had, you know, metal spikes put up and, you know, everything

was a trap. And the trip wires, the building contained the B-sid, building contained and improvised explosive device, a B- beast said building bomb was our biggest fear because you walk in a building bomb, it's done. You're done. When we got in that house, as soon as we get into the area, it just opens up. And I'm on one side of the building and my entire platoon is on the other side. And so because of the fact that we got complacent and we were just going building after building, we're seeing blood, we see a little bit of this, a tanker got one guy, we're looking at him, we knew three, maybe four, one or two, maybe

they're separated, they're just one per house for the rest of the way. When we get in there and these machine guns open up, the machine gun fire was so overwhelming, belt fed machine guns, and it's just coming through a door that my first reaction was cease fire. I thought it was our guy shooting because they saw something squirrely and their condition and train to shoot. So I'm yelling ceasefire. And my team leader yells to me, tell the bad guys to stop firing. Convention is doing it.

So we had no opportunity to do anything from the kitchen, we're in one little living room. Fire is coming in from the kitchen. Our rest of our platoon coming through our machine gunners, they open up on them. So now my machine gunners, you know, you see Rambo with the M60 N1, that 240 bravo's not meant to be, you're going to be an aircraft fire. If you shoot it with one arm, this kid, these two swan, you know, McDaniel, they were shoulder fire in the 240, which is what I haven't seen on a range. You do that, but not in a fight. And so now they're shooting two American 240

Bravo machine guns into the kitchen. Those rounds are going right through our wall. So our bad guys had down in the kitchen, but our good guys are shooting this way. Bad guys are shooting that way. And I noticed that when anyone, they're all in the prone, but when they get their head up, that Kevlar would get ticked. And someone would get hit with a piece of shrapnel or piece of whatever. And I'm the only guy that's totally protected because I'm against a wall that's not a firewall. No one's shooting me. And so I knew that I just had to get into that fuse a lot of tracers. That part was gonna be the worst part.

But if we stayed where we were at, those walls were gonna collapse on us. And that's, but there were things in the house that I smelled. Again, you can't really trust your vision because you're so tired and you're hearing shot, but you could smell a man. You could smell the breath.

You could smell his body odor. You could smell if you use the bathroom in there, but you could also smell fuel and gas. And I was just like, there was so much cordite and so much powder. So much cordite. There was so much gum powder in that room that it was just like there was so much cordite and so much powder so much cordite. There was so much gum powder in that room that it was just you all I could see was the tracer fire coming through. And and our good guys coming through and I was going one that

could make a decision. So my thought was Australian peel. I'm going to stand in front. I'm going to empty an automatic machine gun as many rounds as I can and under that fire, everyone's gonna peel off on me. And I just need to know who the last man is and then I'm gonna run with him. But we're gonna break contact and drop a bomb. That's the plan. But man, now that's the plan, that makes sense.

Let's go do it. You're the guy that's gonna do it. So now you're like, oh, I need some time. You know, like my legs were concrete. I mean, could not move them. And I'm like, give me a machine gun. And I'm thinking that's gonna take at least a minute. You know what I mean?

And all of a sudden, she got like slides over. I'm like, oh, shit. You know that was rather bad. That was quick. That was really, so I'm like, how many are in the, we got like a little pouch of machine, got a drum. How many are in there?

They're like, you know, there's 200. I'm like, are we positive? They're like, yes, I'm like, you double checked. You know, doing everything to eat, waste time. I get that thing in my hand. I cooked my rifle got hit. My, I took around in the rifles when my rifle was dead. The magazine was all shot up.

And I thought, okay, all right. I'm gonna get as low as possible. And if they're gonna kill me, they're gonna shoot me in the face. But they're not, I'm gonna absorb anything with my sappy plate, but try to get as uncomfortably low as I can. But I'm gonna hook. So my sappy plate, but try to get as uncomfortably low as I can. But I'm going to hook. So we train just a little finger. I just want to butterfly kiss that trigger, never going to hook a trigger, right?

Because I want to get as many rounds off in a stable position. So I just want to kiss my trigger, right? And a machine gun, I want to burst it. I want to, but I don't want to. Now you're thinking I'm going to empty this back. So I'm hooking second knuckle on this trigger. So if you do get shot, I'm going to fall and I'm going to go forward to that bolt. I'm still going to fire that thing you want to dead. That's what I'm

thinking, right? And so they're like, are you ready? And I'm like, yes, you know, I'm ready. Here we go. And I look into the room. I get one angle and I see these guys. And they're just so cocky. They're so happy. They're so cocky and over, you know, and I just now it's like, okay, I needed that. Now I'm pissed. I need to get the fear is good. I can harness that. But get me a little pissy in there. Piss and fear is the perfect cocktail for something this stupid. And I look over it at Fitsy, who's, you know, decommessed the coolest, the most, he's been in the army longer, done more, been shot three times. That guy, anything I asked him to do, he do. And he's never asked me to do anything. And he's all about your number, pulling your number. You go do it. And

I was like, that's, that's fits telling me. Like that's my, so I'm like, all right, here's the deal. I walk in there. And there's a stairwell. It goes right up to the second story. And there's a Jersey barrier underneath that stairwell. These guys built a bunker in this house. So they got the Jersey barrier concrete, like you'd see at the airport. And then the stairwell that goes up and they're just right over the top of it.

And I was like, did not have that. That was out in the plan. At all. These shots have to be perfect. And I'm going there with like a lasso of bullets, you know, like just spraying it everywhere. I get up there and I just find myself moving up the stairs. And I'm thinking I'm going to bend that saw machine gun into that bunker and try to just you know, stitch them.

And as I'm doing that, I'm seeing these boys run out. I hear gunfire for the kitchen. I'm trying to mix it a little bit, give them something to think about. And I just hear that, that machine gun, empty. And I was like, wow. Was that 200 rounds?

That was very fast. You know, not at all what I was thinking. So, we, you know So the saw has a little feed for the M4 magazines. And we did that in basic like one time. And I'm like, it didn't work then. I was thinking if they fixed it, you know. Nothing. I couldn't, it just, it was, so now I had a magazine

and I was like, I could hear him talking. I knew No, no screams. No pain. He missed Yeah, it was a small window anyway, but I was hoping at least but there's the elite they're not shooting anymore, right? That's what I'm hoping that they're not going to shoot. So now it's got I got to get out of there and get a new weapon system or get a bomb or something. I got to get out of there and get a new weapon system or get a bomb or something. But I got to get out of there.

And I see that there's a door right next to them on the other side of their bunker. And I'm thinking, all right, do I, I can't run in front of it. I can't go through the kitchen. You know, I got to get the way I came in. So I just took my, my magazine and chucked it. And they reacted to that. And I, I mean, I mean, I ran, if there was a 40 time, I don't know. My magazine and chucked it and they reacted to that and I I mean, I mean I ran if there was a four if there was a 40 time I would have I would have been up there it was quick and I just remember feeling the the heat of

Those rounds like I mean they were just There was they were all over the on the way out and then in the courtyard, the ground getting hit. You know, just there was gunfire as I was running out. And I got out of the gate and then I was right back to that, that dad look, that look my father gave me of like, that was your shot. That was it. Like you had all of this garbage for that moment

that you screamed about forever, and you had that moment, and you had the initiative, and you nutted it up again. You didn't finish the job. And now I got kids getting shot at in the road. It's chaos, there's people in the roof, and I'm like, how many? I'm trying to do the math.

Like, is that the same guy Did I see one guy did I see two guys? I think I saw two But but there's a guy in the kitchen who shoot from the roof is it just one guy running around what's the deal and then We asked for a bomb at that point of bomb in Fallujah was like, you know the butcher with 20 you know the DMV At that point, a bomb in Fallujah was like, you know, the butcher with 20, you know, the DMV. Everyone wants a bomb. We got like 42. Got to wait for 42. It's not going to happen. Right. And then when you get a bomb, the battles over. There's no more artillery and mortars coming in. No helicopters. They clear that airspace for one bomb. You better be worth that one bomb. You know, someone could be losing their life and you're taking their bomb.

You better need it. So I was like, we're not getting a bomb. It's going to be an hour for a bomb. These guys are going to run away and they're going to kill someone. We already lost our SAR major. This neighborhood was a bad neighborhood in the morning. We had no blues in Lieutenant Iwan and Madison. So we lose two more guys in that same block of neighborhood.

This was our chance to give them a knockout blow. And our Bradley's that streets were too narrow and you can't really traverse the gates or high. So guess what? If you can't maneuver, you just, you can only shoot on the, on the plane that you have. It was enough to tear up some of the building, some of the rooms, but not effective fire. There was only one way to do it. That was to smoke them out and go in there and go after them. So I figured this was mine.

It was my mission. I didn't get it done. I'm going to get it done the second time. I'm just going to make sure I'm not going to bring all the guys because it's not worth it to lose because I don't know what's in there. I'm thinking hopefully two, maybe three, never would have thought, you know, six or seven. That wasn't that wasn't in my head, but that might, I was getting them out. And so got a new rifle. And as soon as I walk in, the Bradley had ruptured all the water reserves and the different third world nation, you know, bladders that were in there. So now we've got standing water in this water smelled.

Like, uh, oh, my fish. Just I want to vomit. But but it was I was got my mind off of death Just to be like these people they're dealing with this too But the problem with the water is it now every time I walk through the water that ripple yeah, so now they know I'm in And I'm looking at like broken mirrors everywhere. And I'm like, this is how they tracked us. It's like a 7-Eleven. They know where. They can see.

Yeah. And there's plastic explosives everywhere, everywhere. And propane hooked up to it. And I'm like, well, that's great. Now I got to be careful where I'm shooting because if I had a C4 block, I'm going to lose a whole house. You know, what's going on? Lawson is my buddy, he's got a 9 mil,

that's all he had because he had an M14 that didn't have night vision. And my night vision's acting squirrely, so it's on, it's off, it's too much. So we just gotta take the initiative and just go. And I look in the mirror and I see him putting a few, this one guy was putting a fuse on an RPG five. You're adding a fuse to a rocket,

you stick the rocket in the launcher, then you fire it. And I was like, that's gonna go, that's gonna go to one of these bombs. It's gonna shoot a rocket inside of a, I put guys around the house. My initial goal was just to act like an idiot, chase them outside and get shot up by the boys waiting, you know, outside. As soon as I turned the corner, I engaged the rocket guy and I just caught him. He was standing. He was just, there's no moving for him. He was just unlucky where he was.

The other guy ran into the kitchen and I tagged. These two guys, the guys that were on the machine gun. They were on the machine gun. But I tagged the other guy in the back pretty good and I could see, the blood is now in the water and you can see that it's murky and you're like, okay, that's good, but I'm not seeing blood is now in the water. And it's, you could see that it's murky. And you're like, okay, that's good. But I'm not seeing that he's in the water, you know, Hollywood you drop, I shoot you, you fall.

In real life, you know, you're, and I got, I got a needle and a spoon. And these boys are shooting up. The one guy that we hit with a rocket had a turn to get on. So I mean, he was hitting heroin right there. And but honestly, if I was fighting Americans, I probably would too. I'd probably get a good buzz on too, because that's not end of well. You know, you might

want to go, you know, comfortably numb for your fight. One guy is down. The other guy's hurt. And now I'm on the other side of that stairwell. And I'm like, I'm in this big dark room. And I've just got my eyes on the kitchen. And I'm like, I haven't even cleared this room behind me. So I might as well do that. And so as I'm clearing this big, it's a big master bedroom with a wardrobe, foot locker, big wardrobe, a bed. And all of a sudden, I just start here and not only footsteps upstairs, but I start hearing guys charging into that door. And so now I'm, you know, fighting these guys to the doorway. And I got one, I hit a second guy, and I'm like, is this the same guy? Is this, you know, how many times am I hitting him?

How many people are coming through the door? But in the middle of that firefight, like a bullet went sideways across, and I was thinking, I know my zeroes off, but it can't be, I mean, I can't be shooting to a 90 degree angle. But it just confused me that I could hear, like wood was, like disintegrating and there were tracers hitting the wall as I was shooting.

And I just, I just got like a pucker factor. One, just, you know, what the, there's something, someone's in this room. And I cleared it. And that wardrobe just bursts open. No. Yeah. And this dude just, he just burst open. No. Yeah. And this dude just, he just jumps out of it. But like you talk about these little luck things, right?

Little little things that wardrobe falls on its doors. Doesn't fall flat. It falls on its doors. And that elevation gave me just enough. He put his AK under his arm and he was running this way and shooting behind him. So he had the trigger and he was shooting out at armpit as he was running. Shootin backwards behind him. Yeah, just to get out of there. Right. And he steps over this mushy bed and the mushy bed loses his, it's dark, can't see. He loses his focus and he falls. But when he does that,

those rounds just hit that wardrobe and it's high enough because it's on its doors that it's just absorbing rounds. That would, I was literally standing right there. If that door, if that wardrobe would have gone flush, that would have been, that would have been my first, you know, that would have been, I would have been out. Um, but he goes up those stairs and I got him when he fell against that door after falling off the bed. I, I really, I hit him good. I had him lower back. And then I got him on the hip as he turned and I saw what he was wearing. I saw his beard and older guy. He was the leader, gray in his beard. But that, that look on his face as he ran up and I could just see the blood. I was like, oh, this, this guy's hurt. You know, this, that guy I'm going after. I like my odds with it, dude, I've shot repeatedly and

scared out of his mind. You know, I don't want him, I don't know what's upstairs. I've never been up there. But it was, the water is now only on the first floor, but I'm following a blood. But that slick water and that blood, my foot, I put my foot on a stair and it just wiped out from like the slick. And that guy was right at the landing.

And so I wiped out and right at the landing, I just heard the loudest my ears were shot. I had little hearing, but after that, I was done. That Ake was right here. And as I wiped out that round, just hit the, I mean, once again, had you not slipped at my to kill you. Hey, what a I'm telling you a 7 6 2, an 1847 round against concrete does a mean mushrooms anyway fits his body will show you the mushroom of a 7 6 2 will do. But when it's at a concrete wall at that proximity, that is like a thunder punch. I mean, that literally was to and that's intimidating. This hell because you're like, that was me. My round would have gone

being bong bong you know it would have ticked act out around this one just punch that wall right by your head right by my head and so he's making again I my hearing is shot and the the billions huge and now I can't hear what's happened on the ground floor, but I'm focused on him and that panting, that moaning, that's a that's what guy who's hurt. I mean, he's he's really going through a lot of pain. And so as I turned, the only thing I could get through the night vision and through the pop was just one shot of his face. And that fear on his face was like all I needed to motivate me to close in on him. And I cooked a grenade off. And I threw it in that room.

And the room was an L shape, but that grenade went long. And I just, the fires just started roaring from that grenade. It was bunch of mattresses in there. And it was quite apparent that the smoke was thick black oily smoke. But that room, as soon as I walked in, I my shin bone, I ripped my shin bone on just a bunch of clanging propane tanks. I mean, the whole room was full of propane. And so now I'm like, I'm not a shoot anymore. So I use my rifle to kind of wave the smoke around, but really to find him, where is he?

I'm gonna hit him with the butt of this rifle and just put him down. And he was, there was a whole lot of fight left in him. I learned a valuable lesson that if someone, they're gonna fight for their life, they're gonna fight for their life, they're gonna do whatever they have to do. And so now you're literally fighting this guy

with your hands. In a way that was really surreal because while this is happening, there's a guy screaming, I knew enough Arabic, but I wasn't picking up. This wasn't Arabic. It was either Urdu or it wasn't what we had been hearing. So I just, I know he's yelling to a guy and that guy is responding to him. And I can hear multiple voices. And I'm thinking, this is just got to, I got to, I got to shut them up. So I can just hear what, how many

are left and where they are. I don't, I can't for life, for me, understand how I'm on the top floor of a building, but there's something above me. Like, who's talking above me? Is it the roof? Is it another, you know, this know this he there's a giant patio outside of this big room that we're in. And I'm thinking is he on that patio is above the patio and as you're trying to do that inventory this guy's biting he's punching. Uh, you're thinking all this while you're literally fighting the guy because I'm I'm what I'm, okay, my biggest fear is, you know, I'm gonna get killed, right? That's number one.

And then number two is, my guys are coming in. And they're just gonna shoot, I trained them. I know, I know they're fine. I don't want them shooting the propane. I don't want them shooting me and the propane. I don't want them, you know, blowing the house up. I don't know, I gotta at least get a hold of what's happening. I don't always happening. And I'm getting my ass kicked simultaneously. So the goal was that every time he would

resist where I hit him was clear that when I put my fingers in those areas that he just totally gave up, like that hurt, you know, that pain, being able to control him with pain was enough for me to get the upper hand and You know, it just kind of went down and then I just a 45 went off and I didn't even know we had a handgun on them But that was a big Soviet 45 like that was Right next to my head or at least it felt that way right next to my head, or at least it felt that way. I mean, I was in danger of being shot by it, but I was in danger of him knowing where I was for the second shot.

So now we're fighting over that. And I just remembered I had a Gerber and my helmet, I used my helmet, I used a Gerber and, you know. Gerber's a knife. Yeah. And it was it, that was it. And then I was no helmet. My rifle is on the ground somewhere.

I kicked it a few times, so I knew it was near the door, but I needed to get in that air, that patio, and just kind of like take a wall, keep my profile low. I'm an infantryman, so I know how to smoke a cigarette at night. And so I just cut a cup of my hand and took a few drags of a cigarette just to calm myself down.

But also I didn't have my night vision. My helmet was gone. I needed that cherry to kind of look around a little bit. You know, use it as a little guide. And now I don't have my vest is open, my helmet's gone, no rifle, and I could hear the guys outside coming up with a plan. I can't yell to them because I know that they're someone else here, but I'm just thinking I'm dead. If I don't hang on this wall, I'm done. And then I just hear a guy landing. I heard the pop of his leg or his knee or whatever he broke,

but he jumped. He jumped on the, and the patio again, was he trying to jump on me if he didn't know where I was, if he smelled the cigarette, I don't know what his intention was to help his buddy out. There was no, I wasn't making any sound. I don't know if he smelled me. He couldn't see me, but he landed and the way he landed that scream was, you know, he was in trouble, the AK that he was holding fell. And the magazine metallic sound, I just grabbed that. And when I, when I chambered the round, it was unfuley automatic and it was a snub, no butt stock. It went everywhere.

I didn't, I didn't hit him there. I got my rifle, I put rounds on him, but he ended up either jumping down, falling down. He came, he went off that patio and the saw gunners opened up right after that. So, you know, we figured that was, that was done. But it was a, you know, and I still, there was another guy that, one of the other boys took care of that was in a closet.

They don't put him in the total, but he was there. Um, and then the bomb came. The bomb came and they were like, the bomb's incoming and we were like, oh no. Oh, he made it get out. I gotta find my helmet. So we grabbed everything.

That bomb was a dud. Next bomb wasn't a dud, but it blew up that, the building and the bomb that was a dud, that was a pretty big boom. But I know what said metal of honor, no one said this is awesome. They just said, you know, it was a day. Good work. Let's go. Let's go get them. So, wow. And I've read it, but nothing's like listening to you say it. It was crazy.

It was a crazy day, but honestly, it was a fight that taught me so much about there's luck. Luck isn't supposed to be involved. We're supposed to train. We're supposed to be ready, but it's done luck. So. But David, you had your fingers and a guy's wound who you created Fighting for your life hitting each other with helmets and stuff and you end up killing him with a knife

What does that feel like? What does that feel like? What was most disturbing to me is that it didn't feel like anything. It didn't feel just, it didn't feel I felt, I was trying to show mercy. I was trying to rationalize them, which obviously you didn't speak the language I was trying to speak. Which I wanted to get him to stop us. Which I was an Arabic. I was saying it constantly.

Um, he spoke English to me. I spoke broken Arabic. You mean you spoke to one another? There was a time that they were screaming at me when I was in that little room. They called me a Jew. Um, they said they were were gonna cut my head off and my dog tags, something sent in my dog tags home or all I knew was the basic Arabic,

which was, I'm the first infantry stop shoot. You know, like, surrender, first infantry, why had to move shot? All the stuff that they were trained, but they weren't speaking Arabic, but they were speaking of British. They had a British accent in their English, which was even weirder. It was like being assaulted by the, you know, the BBC you know, like the the Downton Abbey cast was joined al-Qaeda. It was weird. And then Down to Navi cast was joined Elkina. It was weird. And then, but upstairs, I was just telling him to basically stop. And, you know, what I could see from that guy was that he was just like, you know, you're not going to, I'm not going to stop.

I was, you know, it was weird. Um, it was weird. I didn't, but I really thought that there'd be an inventory where I'd be like, do you know what you just did and does that mean anything? And it was like, if you think about it, you're not in the fight. And then your ex my executive officer got killed an hour, two hours later. And then we lost Madison, JC Madison, who's from Buffalo, good, awesome kid. And he, you know, basically gave his life for his, you know, scouts and, and all of this is happening. And, and, and then more guys are getting hit and more, and it's like, all right, look, you're going to have a time to sit by a fire and talk to a shrink and work it out, you know, but it's not the time now. Now's the time to, are you sound?

Are you good? Let's, you know, keep going at it. We'll be right back. What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio.

Where am I? Why, this is the Pendleton. All residents, please return to your habitation. Light stuff on your feet! You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead To Me. Am I under arrest?

We don't like to use that word. Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time. So this is a prison then? No. It's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask, or are you going to do that?

Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our first call is Mary in Lexington, Kentucky. Mary, welcome to the middle. Hello, and thanks for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country heading into the 2024 election, you have to get away from the extremes and listen to the middle.

Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia. On the new podcast, The Middle with Jeremy Hobson, I'm live every week taking your calls and focusing on Americans in the middle who are so important politically but are often ignored by the media. I did a lifetime democratic voter, however I was raised by moderate Republicans from Michigan. Creating space for a civil conversation about the most contentious issues we face, from climate change to artificial intelligence, from abortion rights to gun rights. I consider myself to be conservative,

cis-colled, but politically independent. Listen to the Middle- with Jeremy Hobson on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join former 90210 star Brian Austin Greene along with Dancing with the Stars' fan favorite Sharna Burgess, and Hollywood air-turned-life coach Randy Spelling, as they navigate life, love, and the quest for happiness, in the new podcast, Oldish.

If I finally found the secret to happiness and the key to a successful relationship… Let's hope so, because most of that is with me. Brian, a father of five, who's endured a public divorce and a string of unhealthy relationships, and Sharna, a self-proclaimed serial monogamous, have been in a whirlwind romance since meeting in 2020. Now they'll tackle the challenges of blended family life while dealing with relentless paparazzi. With the help of their friend Randy, they share their life lessons, pondering the meaning of it all in the world of the oldest.

And even though this Hollywood couple finally found each other, they don't have all the answers. Oh, don't a second! Oh, that's where I come in. I'm prepared to guide you or listeners through some of life's funniest, awkward, or difficult moments. Listen to Oldish on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. guests. So the world is, this story gets told because you from that war, and it's you.

And now we go to the supporting greatness because what you just told me is phenomenal. It's disturbing that human beings are ever put in a position to have to do that. Yeah. It's... So, so now think about this though, because this is the other piece of it. If the other piece of it is nobody knows this. Right.

And I don't necessarily want to tell anyone this. Because now I'm in a position where I'm telling my guys, by the way, this is, there's some horrible stuff. They don't need, they need to focus on what's in front of them. You don't want to tell them. What's in front of them is actually getting more progressively chaotic for them. So they don't need to be burdened with my two A.M. thoughts. They're tired. They're hungry. These guys are throwing themselves on a front

of wounded guys protecting their own dudes, you know, snipers and bombs and everyone is doing exactly what I didn't have the capable of doing. By the way, I'm their age when I'm in my house being afraid of a guy. A new dad's house. Same age. And these guys are saving the world. So they've already exceeded me as far as aware they're at. They've proven all they need to prove.

I need to focus on them. And then this reporter who filmed it and now it's a story and it's in a time magazine front page story and everyone's reading this. And so like this world is happening outside of your bubble. No one said anything other than- Did you aren't looking for? No, who wants it?

This is the worst, I mean, it wants to be, that's not something, Maybe some people love it. I, this has been hell. I mean, really, it's not fun at all. But everyone, they're, they're talking about good job, but it's an adaboy, you caught a ball, you know, whatever. Now this video in this world live amongst itself, and then you find out that you're nominated for something, but you

don't get it. And in the army, if you're nominated for Medal of Honor, you don't get like a, you know, you don't end up with a trip to Jamaica. If you don't give the consolation, consolation, yeah, you don't get like, you know, that's it. He didn't win the Medal of Honor. Tell them what he gets Johnny for. There's a wonderful air fryer. You know,, like they don't, they're those secondary. So they say you're nominated. And now the army wants to make a big deal. Commanders love, you know, that's one of theirs. You're their kid. And it just doesn't happen. So now there's this thought process of, well, maybe that's a BS story. Maybe you made that crap up.

Maybe it didn't happen the way you set it up. Because you know, you know, now you're dealing with that. So now it's like, wait a second. You know, maybe now I got to prove what? So there's a tape out there. Everything was just a written narrative, but Michael where had a camera. So Michael wears camera, which I don't even know existed until years after. But there's a bit of scar tissue that builds where you're just like, you know, what's screw? It's kind of,

okay, fine. I didn't get the award. I'm fine with it. I'm sure, you know, at some point, it would have been awesome. I'm totally changed. I've got kids. I've got a job. I'm sure, you know, at some point it would have been awesome. I'm totally changed. I've got kids. I've got a job. I'm doing my thing. I'm at the point where no one knows about my army life. No one's veterans day comes along. And you're happy loving it. No one's, it used to be veterans day. Let's go to the guy nominated for the Medal of Honor. Let's go to the guy with the Silver Star. Let's go to the guy with the Bra. Let's go to the guy we know about in Time Magazine. Those days are done.

We're 15 years going on. So now it's like Happy Veterans Day. I'm like, well, yeah, but it's not directed at me. It's directed at the other guy that wears camouflage and low crawls to the cuff. If you should, you know that guy, wears camouflage and low crawls to the cuff. You know, that guy, he wants everyone to know he's a vet. He's got us, you know, airborne wings on his car.

And he's not doing any of that. I'm staying low. If you know about it, you know about the book. That's it. That's it. And at that point, the book was 15 years old too. So everything's cool. Then this phone call comes and it's like,

this is all happening and I'm thinking, well, maybe it's not really happening. Maybe there's a way to do this on the download. Maybe you could say no, maybe you could say, I don't need it, I'm good, thanks, give it to someone else. And when that news broke and I had like a guy at work, it was like, you're not gonna believe this. There's a guy with your name,

getting the mental of God. I was like, I don't even know who you're. But he was like, you can't be you. You're the guy that is on my fantasy football game. You're not that guy, you're not ever talking about. You don't have any tattoos. You can't be that guy.

You don't dip anymore. You don't be that guy. You don't dip anymore. You don't, you know, you don't spin a cup. You're not that guy. And so I was like, that's over. That's let's do other things, you know. And it became apparent that not only is it not over, but now being the only living guy. Now it's like, what is a rack, the right war? Let's discuss here to join the deal. And I'll be right guys. I've talked to they don't even care if it was the right war or not. It was. They were there.

They were there because they were asked to go or they were ordered to go there. They were fighting alongside the men that they loved. And the politics of it, when you're, I imagine when you're in a stinky water-filled house, full of propane tanks and blood's going everywhere, and you're shoving your fingers in wounds of a man who's trying to kill you, and you're having to literally fight him hand to hand,

you're not thinking, or do you care at all about the politics? I didn't care about the politics to begin with. That's what I mean. But it's like this, you know, Afghan, I'm pro army, I'm pro America and I wanna win our wars. If you don't wanna fight, if you don't want us to fight your war, don't vote to set us to fight.

I mean, it's that simple. Don't set us towards, you don't expect us to win. And you got to win a war. It's going to get ugly. So make sure that your VA is ready. Make sure your homefronts ready. Make sure you have enough bullets and make sure that it's not a political soccer ball. But I talk to people all the time. They get all pissy with me. But I say, you know, if draft Kings had a probability right now of who's more likely to host a summer Olympic games, Baghdad or Kabul. It's Baghdad.

So, I mean, you can say all you want about, you know, Iraq was the bad war and those veterans got news for you. Iraq's on lockdown. Iraq doesn't have Iranian puppets anymore. Iraq isn't, you know, they're denar a strong and their oil is being sold and and they don't have suicide bombs going off. The Taliban still lop and heads off and, you know, treat women like garbage. So I mean, let's be honest, the good war got screwed up by politicians that screw up wars.

Our military, you let us hook and jab and break that chain and let us go at them. We're going to keep America safe and we're going to stack bad guys up, but you get your politics in there and it's what everything else is. It's the story of Vietnam. We haven't learned any. Talk to Vietnam. That what battle was lost in Vietnam? Zero, not a single firefighter.

When you ever actually were able to go fight in a fire in a serious incident report in an engagement where Americans were firing against North Korean or North Korea. Americans won or Vietcong. Not a single battle was lost. IA drank outnumbered by four divisions to our two battalions, one that fight outnumbered, outgun, SF, special warfare. You name it. We want every battle in the V. You go to my kid is in the history class and he's learning about the test

Ted offensive. And you know, my kid, he'll be like, well, we lost the Ted offensive. I'm like, who's your teacher? Who's your teacher? What are you talking about? We did not lose the Ted offensive. They did a surprise attack. Did we lose the battle of the bulge? Is that is that the argument that we lost the battle? What are you talking about? I mean, these are not accurate. We're we're totally insane. So yeah, the narrative is going to get twisted. History and politics are going to get in the way. But those are rack war veterans. Every time you see a guy with a hat on, you have no idea what they've been through. You have no

idea what they've done. And you know what, you want those veterans in your community, you want them coaching your kids' sports teams, you want them teaching, you want them as your next door neighbor, they're not broken, they're not discarded, they're not, you know, putting shotguns in their mouth every day, they're dominating the world, because unfortunately, we don't even have beta males anymore. We've gone Charlie to Delta. You know, we're far beyond beta males.

We need men and women that can handle adversity, handle stress and those men and women that are coming home from our military are those men and women who are going to be leaders in our society. And it annoys me, we victimize veterans. Like, oh, I'm so sorry you had to endure that. So am I, but it happened.

How many people car accidents, disease, they've been abused when they're kids, they had no choice, this just happened. Are we victimized by that for life? Or do we use that and say, you look, this is what happened? This is what I'm capable of. Now I'm gonna flank this issue and be better for it,

stronger for it, ready for it, never to happen again, and proactive so it doesn't happen to other people. That's the lesson of that trauma. You're supposed to empower, be empowered by it. I hope. We'll be right back. What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio.

Where am I? Why, this is the penleton. All residents, please return to your habitation. Light stuff on your feet. You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead To Me. Am I under arrest?

We don't like to use that word. Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time. So this is a prison then? No. It's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm going to get out.

And how may I ask for you going to do that? Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our first call is Mary in Lexington, Kentucky. Mary, welcome to the middle. Hello, and thanks for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country,

heading into the 2024 election, you have to get away from the extremes and listen for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country heading into the 2024 election, you have to get away from the extremes and listen to the middle. Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia. On the new podcast, The Middle with Jeremy Hobson, I'm live every week taking your calls and focusing on Americans in the middle who are so important politically but are often ignored by the media. I did a lifetime democratic voter, however I was raised by moderate Republicans from Michigan.

Creating space for a civil conversation about the most contentious issues we face, from climate change to artificial intelligence, from abortion rights to gun rights. I consider myself to be conservative, cis-glee, but politically independent. Listen to the Middle of Jeremy Hobson on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Martin Scorsese's latest film, Killers of the Flower Moon. The movie is based on a book about the 1920s Osage murders, when white men poured into Osage County and killed Osage people for their oil wealth. I am Rachel Adams-Herd, the host of Intrust, a podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Media.

For over a year, I was reporting a different story. About other ways white people got Osage land and wealth. And how a prominent ranching family in Osage County became one of the biggest landowners here. Their ranching empire was built on land that at the turn of the century was all owned by the Osage nation. So how'd they get it? Listen to the award-winning podcast in trust on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So now we transition to the supporting greatness part of this, which is, I mean, almost nobody

listening this. I guess there's veterans listening to this that can probably identify the story, but the vast majority of people can identify with it. And the reason I wanted to tell you to tell it is because you are the only living metal of honor recipient. And it's, I mean, I don't know the difference in deserving or not deserving, but I would say that's very deserving. It's certainly inspirational.

But what I want to hear is what's that? I'll show it to you. I'll show it to you. I'll show it to you. I'll show it to you. I'll show it to you. I'll show it to you. I'll show it to you. You see it. Have you ever seen one? Yeah, that's pretty phenomenal that people, what I, they, how many folks, how many folks, I think were it never put this in front of my, why? Because I didn't earn that, but that is unbelievable.

It's funny, you wear that some places and they're like that's the metal of honor and then you go to LA and they're like what's that? I have like I bow the 300. I saw more magazines and anyone in my youth group and I got that. It says it says I wish people could see it says valor under the eagle. And there's an inscription around the medallion. It says United States of America and I assume that is that lady liberty? No, no, that's that's our little angel of a fight. That's a Lincoln version that he designed in 1863 for the Civil War. That's the first time that's the Army's Medal of Honor. The Navy is different.

The Air Force is different. I don't know how to do it. But on the back of it is the legitimate one. That's got all the writing on it. The recipients have, so that your name, the date, it happened, the area to happen, and the unit that you were with, the back it all up. But, but the army has their version of the navies, got theirs. You got the Air Force, and I'm sure Space Force is going to have one. You know, it's going to happen.

The next first on our review is the person in the Space Force who goes house to house because at that point we've discovered it's a bad day. You're fighting folks with tentacles. Space force, like big foot. I hear stories that they're out there. I've never met a person in it. But so here's the deal. In supporting your greatness David certainly your grandfather. Absolutely. It was an inspiration to you. Yeah. Um, your father supported your greatness by basically your shame.

Well, I did. I mean, there's a lot of other ways. No, no, I'm not at all the person I am without my dad. He was every example of, um, but so I'm not at all the person I am without my dad. He was every example of So I lost him in 2017 to cancer and one of the well, hey listen the world is You know, they lost a wonderful man. The thing about my dad. I saw Valor. If you would talk to me about Valor It's you know It's a fireman. It's a cop, it's a teacher

in a school shooting, it's a soldier, you know, kinetically going against danger and fear. I saw, you know, when you fight disease at the end, that's one of the bravest things I've ever seen in my life with my dad, accepting reality and saying, I have nothing but faith and I'm not afraid. I never looked for valor in anything other than firemen, cops, soldiers, and people that deal with violence. Violence is what where we get valor. That's what I thought. And then I met people at hospice and people fighting disease

and all the different problems in the world, divorce, heartache, you name it. People show that every single day. It's, it really taught me a lot of lessons. But my dad was definitely there. My grandfather is still alive. He's 103, which is insane. Insanx. The Nazis couldn't kill him. And neither could, you know, the people at Olive Garden, because

he's definitely. So people, he's waiting. And if you had breadsticks, if you had one word, yeah, and you're only allowed one, even if it's hyphenated, we'll let you allow that. What do you take from your grandfather? Steady. Dad. Unflapable. Okay. So I've read where you are more than humble when talking about this thing and you're always trying to talk about how

countless other people that served with you and around you had as much bravery if not more than you and would have done the same thing. And you talk with such honor and respect your voice when you talk about the Ram rods. honor and respect your voice when you talk about the Ramrods. Tell me some other names. You've met you've even you've evoked fit. Fits. Fits. Fits. Yeah. Fits. Fits. Fits. Right. It who is also in the vote. So give me give me the story of a few of these Ram rods. First, who are the Ram rods? And then give me the story of some other people that you feel like your greatness would have never happened had it not been for them. I mean, that's, yeah.

So two two infantry is the Ram rods, second regiment. In fact, I just went to the the civil rights museum and they've got a class here here in Memphis. Here in Memphis, there's a class A jacket in there from a Vietnam stud and he's a two two infantry Rambroth. First ID. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Brown star of valor.

So our unit is the first infantry division obviously was the first for a reason. We're started off by Alexander Hamilton. Is that the big red one? Big red one. Yeah. That's the movie. We go under that. Well, it's a movie has Luke Skywalker in it, a young Mark Hamill is in it and a very old squad leader. The big red one. Oh, there's a movie. Oh, yeah. I know. No, I just the big red one is the big red one. That's on your uniform. Yeah, no, no It's the yeah, the big red one is a unit that really it cut its teeth in World War one. Got it Red one guys. So are those that ramrods or no, so ramrods are so the ramrods were just attached to the big red one

Got it And we went through Vietnam together Vietnam is where two two infantry in the first ID really Really showed a lot. There's the big red one. And we went through Vietnam together. Vietnam is where two to infantry in the first ID really really showed a lot. There's the big red one. There they are. Yeah. To explain what's going on here guys, we're looking at a picture together and commenting on it. This episode was a little bit out of the ordinary because David was such a special guest to us. We actually filmed it at the Memphis, Grizzly studio at the FedEx Forum. And while we were filming, we got to look at some visuals on a screen there. Make sure to check out our social media at the Handle at Army of Normal folks to see some of the cool video clips from this episode.

You know, that's funny. That guy walking away from us. He's not a part of our unit. He's just in the division. We don't know him. But he was an engineer who we found this building next to that building is full of, I'm not gonna exaggerate and say 200,000 landmines. And this guy was wiring it with a radio and he was like, they're gonna detonate it. And right as that photo was taken, a second afterwards, he just was like five, four, and just started running out

of the building. And I'm like, dude, your whole job was to tell us when was this going to happen. And so that look of of me, that's nap on the right and fits over there. It's we're standing there waiting for this to detonate. And when they blew it, all those walls came down. The ones around you. It was that that entire building was just subsumed with with smoke. And that guy literally was just like, he was like, he's got a county down in the brand. And everyone's like, what is it? What's going on here? And he's slowly walked out. We were all in that room and boom. But that's a funny, shall I never forget that?

NAP on the right was my team leader. And he was, he was that stud in sports in high school. So I'm out of college and these guys are all right out of high school. So there's a good age gap. And you're there, Sergeant. I'm there, Sergeant, but it's definitely, it's 10 years, 10 plus years in time. Normally, your squad leader is about five years older than you. So I was like doubling that.

But NAP was the guy that was so cocky and he was such a stud and he was so good that they always put him in the other squads because they were making him getting him ready to be a squad leader. So I always, I loved them and I respected them, but I was always annoyed by just the swagger of this kid. But we're going to Fallujah. They're like, I'm like, can I pick who I'm, I'm, if I'm going, I want my guys, can I pick my guys? They're like, you can have whoever you want. I'm like, can I pick what? If I'm going, I want my guys, can I pick my guys? They're like, you can have whoever you want.

I'm like, just give me NAP. I'll clear that city with him. If you let me have NAP for one fight, I'm gonna, we'll turn him into an automorphy. Trust me. And NAP was everything is ever-tank. Where's NAP now? He is working. It's got a great job, awesome family,

he's out in Missouri. He's got a daughter with cystic fibrosis. And what he showed me, a daughter of three girls, I mean, everything he's done in the army, I could write two books on NAP of what he's done for America. But what he's shown me as a dad and as a man in that hospital room, all that work doesn't give you sick leave for your kid.

He takes vacation. He goes when there's a hurricane and puts those power lines back up. That's, I'm telling you, you want to judge a soldier by his awards? That's not that's the, I'm telling you, you want to judge a soldier by, by his awards? That's not where you judge me by what my subordinates are doing. Cause if you're not a clipped, you're not a leader. That's funny.

One of my biggest saying is the greatest measure of the success of a leader is the actions of the followers. Amen. I, a leader is replaced. And I'm telling you, I got a soldier, John Ruiz. John Ruiz is a guy who, if you were to tell me, so John Ruiz was the soldier I had from Kosovo and we were stationed in Germany. That was our home, was in Germany. And Kosovo was our first deployment. We did a rack from Kosowell. I've had the guy had the longest.

I got him straight off the bus. My job in my battalion was I would hang out with my Alpha Company and I was the scout. And I'd see these guys walking off the bus and I'd see like a broad just a yoked out kid from like Oklahoma drinks like goat milk. Yeah, you know what kids? He won him.

I want that kid right there. Some dude is like I'm from South Central Los Angeles and he's like field dressing at AK. I'm like, I want that. I want that guy. You know what I mean, I could tell the guys that were like, um, why'd you join the army? Like, I don't know. I beat my principal with a tire iron. I'm like, I can work with him. You know, I would ever, would ever then come off the bus. But occasionally the big, strong stud would go AWOL. The big tough kid from South Central would be like,

I don't want to go to war. And then you're like that 120 pound nerd from Kansas. I remember this kid from Kansas, we had this kid Herman, amazing soldier, good kid. But every time we go on a road mark, he's like, we don't have hills and Kansas. Like, I can't walk up hills. I have no ability.

And I'll tell you what, what you learned how to walk up a hill. That kid was right. I mean, he was a soul, that's the guy I want. I want Herman. I want this guy. But there's always these little issues that all the other scouts from the other platoons

would be like, I don't want them, I don't want them. I'm like, I know what to look for. I know what to look for. If you're carrying a book in the infantry, I want that guy. He's got a book. There's not a paperweight, he reads. You know, I was impressed, I could, I could judge him pretty good. NAP, obviously, I didn't get to, I didn't pick him, but he was chosen for us.

But I picked John Ruiz. And I could just tell John Ruiz, you asked John Ruiz, what he is? He doesn't know what he is. I love that. He's like, I could be Cherokee or Mexican or Scotch Irish. I'm not really, I'm a skinnoah. That's my dude, right? He was a wierry and could run for days. His endurance was like unbelievable. He was a stud, but man, he just had a way of looking at every situation, always with never too excited, never too depressed, bring it on. And now he's working for like the space program. And if you would have told me that we're gonna land on Mars

because of John Verwee's, I would have lost my house, I would have lost my 401k. That kid is a brainiac, and he's got incredible discipline, and he's such an incredible man, and he's a father, and he's a husband, but he's also a guy who shot like 12 84 millimeter rockets when you're only supposed to do two in a lifetime. He shot them reflexively. He, they would shoot RPGs at us and they were loud. Why are you only supposed to do two at a lifetime? Because they're so loud. They rattle your brain. And he's, and, and, and I, and Bill, look, they just shot a rocket

as to scare us. It's loud and it has no sense of direction. I'll tell you what, we've got our own rocket. It's also loud and there's no super direction. Shoot that flaming pencil. And then dude, if we got hit with contact, I'd be like, Ruiz, and he'd be like, and then he'd be like, it would break contact. They, no one would want to fight with the AT4 with fire. So we fired them all that's every time we got shot at.

There was Ruiz with an 84 millimeter. And he was accurate and he was killing people with it, but it was just, he shot too many of them. Blasted his hearing, but man, he is in science now. Working with lasers. He just did that fusion project where we replete like, like my skin. He's part of that. He's a part of a project that created fusion. And I'm like, this guy couldn't get a sideburns even. Like, you know what I mean? But I have nothing to do with that. That's not me.

That's him. That's him. And that's what my guys were about. I got him to a part where I played my role and they told me, I was like, I'm not going to be a part of that. I was like, I'm not going to be a part of that. I'm not going to be a part of that. I'm not going to be a part of that. I'm not going to be a part of that. I'm not going to be a part of that. I'm not going to be a part of that. I'm not going to be a part of that. That's not me. That's him. That's him. And that's what my guys were about. I got them

to a part where I played my role and they took that and they added seven pieces to it. And now they are who they are because of who they are. And I just had the fortunate to spend time with them. spent time with them. We'll be right back. What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio.

Where am I? Why, this is Dependleton. All residents, please return to your habitation. Like stuff on your feet! You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead to Me. Am I under arrest?

We don't like to use that word. Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time. So this is a prison then. No, it's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm going to get out. And how may I ask, or are you going to do that?

Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. on the IHART radio app,. Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia. On the new podcast, The Middle with Jeremy Hobson, I'm live every week, taking your calls and focusing on Americans in the middle

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we're your weekly dose of high value entertainment. Laugh cry and soak in game with every episode. Join us on Monday. Listen to us up there podcasts on the Black Effect podcast network. I heart Radio L Apple podcast or whatever you get your podcast. We now return to David on another Ramrod who supported him. Fits. Fits is just, I mean, I tell you tell us who fits was. Fits was, he was the same, he was the same as Fits' thing was this is a guy he's a hundred if he's a hundred forty pounds

that might be given him extra weight. Maybe he got up to 145, five foot nine, 145 from no one knows Mississippi, right? And literally would just, won't talk. He just, he would spit his tobacco juice and all he wanted to do was, he was army life. He was tactically, he would study his field manuals, he knew everything, but his whole thing was, he was army life. He was tactically. He would study his, his field manuals. He knew everything. But his whole thing was his kids were his kids. NCOs were NCOs.

If you were an officer and you tried to correct Sergeant Fitch, you better know what you were talking about. Because if you didn't, he would have masculate you. That was he was a king of a masculation. And if anyone started anything, his own soldier, an officer, a person from another unit, he would knock, he would fight anyone at any given time. So this guy would go from E6 to E4, E5, E7, E5, his D2, E4, T is, you're going through how many ranks you said, he's bounced everywhere.

Always gets his rank back, but he's just basically, he suffers no fool, no fool. And there was this giant dude that came into our tent once we're training in Germany. And this guy had tattoos everywhere, just yoked out. You probably might want to check his urine. And he comes into the tent and he just starts talking and fits, he's like, hey man, with that, he's like, the drill. He had like a Ross Perot, John Wayne, Fuse accent.

And he'd be like, hey man, I'm gonna tell you one time, shut your face, right? I'm gonna tell you, show you, and this guy was like, this guy's like, who are you gonna do, buddy? He's like, I'm gonna take that e-tool. I'm gonna assemble the shovel. The foldable shovel?

The excavation tool. He's like, I'm gonna assemble that e-tool in front of you and then I'm gonna lop an ear off your head. And like, everyone is like, is this a joke? And it's like, no, it's not a joke. Fits will hit you in the hand with an e-tool. He will, and he has no fear. And, and it is, it's one thing to act that way.

It's another when you're in a fight, are you that way? That man is like that every day of his life. He will, and does anyone like him? You know, that's a tough personality. It's a tough personality. It's a tough personality. It's an acquired taste. It's an acquired taste, but I'll tell you what, that's loyalty driven.

And that guy will literally, and when he got shot three times a month into a rack, that is you're supposed to sit on your farm and collect the tax repay check for the rest of your life. And he kept coming back. He came back from all to read. He did whatever he had to do to pass a PT test. That guy wasn't walking right. He was in pain every single day. Every time those bulls got fired, he knew what it felt like when it impacted his bones and his flesh. And he was there every step of the way. I,

I mean, I don't know what they were doing out there in Mississippi if they're all like that, but that's one, that's an American patriot. That's a stud. A's a bravest guy of a man. And he's fine. He's still pissy and he's still, you know, I mean, he drinks, he has his beer, he likes his beer, he's got a beautiful family, a wonderful wife. He's living his

life and you're not going to change it. You're not going to change any of it. And and we should sleep better at night. No one fits us on the wall. Unless he's you're on his property. You're not sleeping at all. Are you might be sleeping for him? No, he's awesome. Yes, we are better country if you have men like him. Tell me about the the other gentleman north Mississippi. Who do we got north? Oh, it was Fitz the beer guy. Fitz the beer guy. Okay. So he showed up too. So he doesn't leave Mississippi. He's comfortable. He's happy. And so now this whole thing has happened. And he's like, I don't want to go back there I don't want to go to a rack. I don't want to I don't want to put my mind back there. I was asking a lot of these guys

Yeah, I was going on this little trip. You're supposed to bring two guests to the Medal of Honor I want to bring them all I want to put them all on the stage But I also realized that I was asking them to go back to a place that maybe they didn't want to go. And that was, that was very selfless of them to want to do that. Memories and thoughts and friends having died and pain that they'd somehow figured out a way to move on from and live the life of. And so even though this award for you and their support, without their support, this award would have never happened. Absolutely.

That is their award. But asking them to come back means maybe stretching open some old scars. And so now the baby of the fallen soldier that gutted you and ripped your heart out because you lost him. And you think, well, if I zigged and zagged, would that have changed? Well, yeah, it would have. I mean, everyone said, oh, you can't say, no, you can. In a firefight, you can. You make a decision and you go on the wrong side of the fight

and this guy went on the other side. And you're like, that was not my plan. I screwed that up and those three guys are dead because you could literally say, that's what happened. That baby and that widow, you're not ever going to see him again anyway in the army. You're going to PCS go to a different station, get deployed again. Death isn't real. You die. We put you in a bag., we lie and say that they're fine. You don't get any call from home to tell you otherwise, but we're all telling stories of, oh, he's great.

He's just got a surgery. It's going to be all right. Everything's going to be fine. Let's focus on this. And you don't go to the memorial. You don't go to the cemetery. You don't see the taps played. You don't do any of that. You're't see the taps played. You don't do any of that.

You're fighting and you're fighting until it's over. When it's over, you have a choice to make. Do I just keep living in this, oh, that guy's still there. I just not going to call him because I don't call anyone. I'm living my life. Or do I have to face the reality that he's gone. Those men that chose to make that decision of, I'm just gonna live my life and put this behind me.

They were all forced to see that that little baby is now 17. That's out of thought. Without a dead. Now, now you have to do the inventory you didn't do with my life that this guy gave his life for mine. Did I live up to the expectations of what I would want? Someone that I gave my life for mine. Did I live up to the expectations of what I would want someone that I gave my life for them? And I, the man I should be.

As I look at this kid, I'm now telling him about his dad for the first time. Knowing full well, we all promised ourselves we were gonna visit the families. We're gonna sit those babies down. We're gonna go to their football game. We're gonna go to their prom. We didn't do it. We didn't do it because we had our own kids and our own life, the pain,

and it sucked. It hurt. And we didn't want to face it. So now you're forcing these men to go right back there and address all the things we all promised all to celebrate this. All to celebrate something that wants to celebrate. And so and you know, so it shows up to the show's up the Pentagon. And I dragged him out there. He didn't want to do it. Right. And so he's like, listen, I'm not changing anything about me.

I'm not changing anything about me. You can't change me. You're not going to change me. I said, put a suit on. He looked like, you know, he had the beard and he looked like a an attorney, which was pretty, But he carried around this cooler. And I'm like, is that, are you doing an organ delivery? Like, what do you got?

Why you walk around with a cooler eyes? What's in it? And he, this is, you know, before the, he was a Bud Light guy before the controversy. And he loved his beard and he drank his beard. He was going to carry his beer everywhere. And so we go to the bed ofod and security and the alarm goes off and they're like, what do you have in your pockets? He's like, just beer. And they're like, you can't, you can't bring beer to the pedagod. But this guy was so smart that he knew that he had

like throwaway beers. He gave them the throwaway beers while the other beers were in his pocket. Right? And he's like, I'm with the Medal of Honor recipient. I got the chief of staff years. He gave them the throwaway beers while the other beers were in his pocket, right? And he's like, I'm with the Medal of Honor recipient. I got the chief of staff of the army. I general Millie. Everything's like, Trump is going to be here in a second. Like shut up. It's it out. And so they, they're like, he gave them the throwaway beers where they're like, don't do that again. And then he had like two others in his back pocket and just kind of weasel his way out. And he's like, yeah, I kept the beer.

And he also, he also was like, I'm now back where I never thought I'd ever be. I'm in this uniform. I never wore my lifetime. And they just like, and they cardboard that uniform. Like they stick cardboard behind it, so it just looks perfect. And they're like, go throw out the first pitch against the Yankees and Mets. And I'm like, I'm like the tidbit man.

I can't even move. I'm gonna look like Obama. I'm like, I can't throw this like a normal. So we get out there and and fit's like, listen, we're right back to where we wanted to be. No one asked for this, but we're here. So what did you need back in the day? You need Copenhagen.

I got Copenhagen Shortcut just for you. And I want you to put this in your lip. And we're gonna do it together. So I put a chai in there and I'm like, well, I mean, yeah, I'm a dentist. But I got, you know, anyone who dips for a long time, you got that little crater. And it's a lonely little crater when you quit, but it's still a hole in your face.

And, and that Copenhagen goes back into its little sleep area. And I'm just like, oh, it's just a mate life is so much better. And I'm like, what's going on? And that, that taste that it's like you want. And then I'm like, oh, I got a spit, you know, I'm in the White House. I got to find it. And so everyone gets ushered out. And the president shows up.

And he's like, what do you have in your mouth? And I was like, oh, I got a tobacco product in there. And I don't even know what to tell you. But I am. And he's like, well, it's too late. They're playing hailed the chief. We're going to go out and do this thing. And so every time I look at a photo,

I'll do an interview with someone and they'll be like, you know, I look at that and I just see so much emotion. You look like there's a guy that has a small kittens worth of tobacco juice trickling down to the suffigates and he's trying not to vomit because I'm swallowing bits and bits and bits And they're like, you know, you're not only the first and only living mental of honor recipient from Iraq You're also the first idiot to do that over the full charm in his mouth trying to displace it and is

It was the word yeah right there I'm sick. I look at my face. I look like John. I'm so sick from all of that. That's a Ed Biers Navy seal. By the way, you see the difference in the metal monitor. He's got the Navy one. Yeah. That's like the Cowboys logo. They made it, you know, the Navy. They made it big and bold. He's a Navy seal. His story is incredible. You know, just took out a bunch of ISIS guys that were kidnapped in Americans.

But I had buyers all looking at him. And let me tell you another thing. That photo, right? So he's got his cook whites Navy SEAL. Navy SEALs are there like the, they're the Division one quarter bad going first round. They are. I mean, even, but they're totally nothing about the military. It's like, it's like when you see you watch

Top Gun and you're like, Tom Cruise is like five foot two and he's got a little aviators. That's exactly what pilots are. They're like jockeys. They're five foot two little butts. They got little butts. They got little pants on giant aviators, and they're just the cockiest dudes. Would they play volleyball shirtless? They do, and they are right now, and somewhere in America, there's a shirtless group of pilots playing volleyball. That's what they do, right? They're very confident.

And God, we want confident pilots. We want our Navy SEALs are the most confident boys in the universe. And they know it. They and so they're cook whites, they're uniform. Perfect, right? I'm in a, we're doing this thing for the in July and it's a downpour in Washington, DC. And I got my brand new uniform.

I've never worn and it's just soaking up rainwater and Ed Byers has got his cook whites. And he looks over and he's like, I still look better than you in these cook whites. And I'm like, you're right, you do. You look amazing. But my dress blues because they're new are just oozing out. Blue dye.

Dye. And it sucks onto his cook whites. Oh, that's perfect. It starts to spread all throughout his brand of uniform. Destroyed his cook whites. And I was like, you know, at the end of the day, who looks better than I, I've destroyed your uniform. That's what I feel good about. Ed Byers a great guy. Those seals are awesome. But yeah, that's him. And he's a stud. And it's an honor

to be associated with guys like that. All right. So supporting greatness, gosh, I mean, all those guys that served under you are part of it. Tell me about Doug Walter. Oh, man. I, that's, if I was going to put a non, if there's a man in my life that has impacted me just in humanity and just the decency. Doug Walter is that guy. So Doug Walter is my commander in Germany. And we go to Kosovo and he gets like this ulcerative colitis.

You heard of this? No. It's like the word, it just like your body rejects food and you start getting super sick and he's going through all this stuff and it's got to change his diet, but he literally goes from like he's a West Point Ranger baseball team division one second baseman PT stud. I mean and to bald head, you know, they got like the little Jesse Ventura Blanchin. You know what I mean? Like those guys are just like built in a garage. Yeah.

You know, like testosterone, 200 parts. You know what I mean? Like they made him, they made him to be like an alpha dude. And he now is like 180 pounds and the stud to like 120. Loses everything and just looks like he's got, he's dying. And we get ready to leave that day for a rack and a formation in the winner of Bavarian Germany. And he's like, I can't go.

I'm not healthy enough, but my best friend is gonna go in my place, Sean Sims. He's our commander. Sean Sims is killed in Fallujah about two days after a day after my fight, Sean Sims, same thing I'm doing. He wants to lead from the front. He goes into a house and the house wins and he loses. He's a captain. He knows what he's doing. He got unlucky where I got lucky. Same story. He dies.

He's got a wife and a little boy at home. Captain Walter is our commander that gave up that command for his best friend. His best friend's killed. Walter comes in that day, that photo of a nap and fits in some random guy. That was the day Walter came back to us and Walter, they flew him into Flucia and he took over the company

that he led even as unhealthy as he was. Absolutely. Yeah, he did it because- That's a hero. I can't say enough about him. And his fight, he was, these officers, the at Westpoint guys cerebral and kinetic at the same time, but the decency and Captain Walter. He loved us like we were, you know, his family and and I never as a as a young guy, I don't I couldn't say that to another man. as a young guy, I couldn't say that to another man. I couldn't say that I loved a guy.

It was always weird. You're an army, you're not like, by the way, you might want to be worn to the people that look largely in your eyes and tell you, I love you. It was weird. Today, as a middle-aged man, I could tell, I could say that because I mean it,

and I care about him, and now we're old, and we're being honest with our feelings and how we feel. And we do we care about each other a lot. I think that's the building block of valor is love. I don't think you can do something for someone else unless that's the ultimate way to love someone. So I'm going to group all of these guys collectively as the Ram rods. So if your grandfather is steady and your dad is unfloppable, what are the Ram rods and supporting you?

What what? What tenant from them supported you? What tenant from them supported you? I mean, I always think of that relationship of just the accountability. They force you every day to be accountable. You can't words, anything that comes out of your mouth has to automatically, that check is automatically withdrawn from that account. The minute you say it, every aspect of who you are and what you do, that trust is earned and it means something and that honor, that integrity, that character, that all is what

keeps me going. And there's been a lot of things, you know, this award, that all is what keeps me going. And there's been a lot of things, you know, this award everyone talks about the good, there's a lot of crazy that comes with it. They believe it or not. We're a divided country today. Did you know that? You know, I was slightly aware of it. And there.

And there. Mainly one of the reasons why I'm sitting here talking to you about an army and normal fuss. And there's a very litigious faction of people in this world that for whatever reason they see you as a mascot, not as a veteran, and a mascot, a mascot. A mascot. You're a mascot of whatever political party they want to put you in. Your mascot of the president who gave you the award, even though Obama approved this award, Trump put it on me. And so naturally, I'm a, I'm now a spokesperson for the Trump administration and all that vitriol that goes towards him is, you know, comes at you. And because you're, it's not fair.

It's, it's, I would say it's criminal into some of the actions that have, that have occurred where, that have, that have occurred where, you know, that video that you're talking about to say in the video, you say, I don't care how you vote. I don't care how you worship. I don't care what you're loving. I don't care who you love, how you, I don't care any of it. I'm like, I'm a gay soldier. Awesome. Be super gay. We're fighting the communist Chinese tomorrow. And you and your glory as to find iPod are gonna come with us and we're gonna fight China together. It doesn't matter who you're love.

I don't care who you are. You are a soldier. You're a professional. And by the way, all of the distractions of heterosexuals, homosexuals, you name it, they are superseded by professionalism. We don't, you're not, if you're in an office, and by the way, this comes from a Christian man.

Exactly. I'm not even, it's not even, to me, my whole point is is that, but it's not even about that. It's not even about that. If you're, if you're a heterosexual that cannot separate what you're attracted to and in the middle of the confines of a devil work day, I got problems with that too. All right.

If I walk into a conference room and you're slapping fannies when we're trying to get work, you're in distraction. You need to go. I don't want that. I don't want that in my unit. I don't want that on my team. I want a professional and if you happen to be born a woman and you're here as a female, you are not a woman,

you're not a female, you are a soldier and you're going to do the job. But if you can't do the job, I'm sorry, you're on the cutting line too. And if you can't do the job, let's do it. We're here to win. And winning means saving lives. That's what it means. It's not about feeling good. There's a lot of people that want to be like, I feel good about the direction the military is going to you're not, you don't have skin in the game. You could, you know, the best way to feel good is watching a bunch of veterans and a parade at the end of the war walking in a formation.

That makes you feel good. But your policies of whatever you're trying to turn this thing into a peatery dish of horrible idea. I mean, this is a, it doesn't work at Harvard. Let's try in the United States, Periturers. But what are we doing? You're just, you're gutting all of the things that make, you know, there was a time, America, whether it's board versus, you know, education, brown versus board of education or plusy versus

Ferguson, all of the issues that we had with integration in America, the military led the way. The military was integrated before our government was integrated. And all of the promises from Andrew Jackson to George Washington, if you black men have died along white men since this nation's inception from the Boston massacre to, you know, our first battles in the revolution, African Americans have bled along with white people. This, our failure is man and leadership. Leadership has failed America. It's never defined our declaration or our constitution the way it was written to be, but that's man and that's leadership. The institution is what needs to be preserved.

The institution made the steps when our society couldn't make the steps. We don't need to tinker with that. You're not a black man in the military and you're not a white man. My old star major who died in Fallujah said, you're green. That's your color. You're green. And we're all green. And we're all gonna go two days without food. We're all gonna go three days without sleep. And at the end, you're gonna be there for each other. And that's what we did from all parts of this country, all backgrounds, all suspected sexualities. I never was like, I need four machine gunning Democrats. I need them at 0400. I need some people that are a four parcel birth abortion. And we need them on this chalk at zero seven. No one gives a damn.

Do your job. Do it to the best of your ability. I know we cancel each other's vote out. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care what your team is. What college we all these rivalries, Oklahoma, Texas, we got huge, you're, you're an American.

And, and that's beautiful. And to play with that now at this time and in our country shows we just we just have petulant children. We don't have mature adults and we need more emotionally stable adults running our government and and we have a lot of of and they're on both sides, but it's it's really gutting our West point is a joke. They're just, they are going to war with our military academies. The Air Force Academy, the graduation this year was famous because Biden fell over a sandbag and then we'll talk about him falling.

But the real story of the, what, the Air Force graduation had nothing to do with the President of the United States. It had to do with the two designated huggers. What? I'm going to say that again, designated huggers. What is that? When you got your diploma, these two airmen and women hugged you because you were a graduate. The Airports Academy put hugging designators at the end of that ceremony to me far, far outweighs any president and his inability to keep his equilibrium.

That is, this is the, you can't say mom and dad at the Air Force Academy anymore because it offends people without a mom and dad. Get all this crap out. That's the, that's universities. You want to do that in your public school systems? Elections have consequences. You know, go ahead, go do all that. But don't touch our military.

Our military has had proud men and women serving, dying and Arlington Cemetery has gay soldiers buried in it. So, what? Now, a single one of them would have wanted to be identified as anything other than American patriot. We are cheapening that sacrifice. We got 400,000 men and women who gave their lives to this country and we're going to put their entire life's worth into what they're attracted to and who they love.

No one gives a damn about that. No one cares. You're not reading Audie Murph. You know what take away from Audie Murphy? He was attracted to and who they love no one gives a deal about that No one cares. You're not reading Audie Merck You know what takeaway from Audie Murphy? He was attracted to women. Did you know that? Does anyone give a Does anyone care do I need to know in your designation? He killed 47 Germans beat them with a hatchet and He loved men like who cares? That's the takeaway if that's the, you're just in the wrong job. I'm sure there's a Silicon Valley job

that puts that as they're hiring, you know, none of that is, I don't care what you love or who you vote for if you're willing to say, how you worship. If you're willing to say, I got Muslims all over this army that are serving, that are dying and saying, we don't do anything in Iraq without a rackies that are willing to sacrifice for Americans.

Those turps and those soldiers, they interpret, they interpret, they, they died 10 to one over Americans over the contractors. Look, how about this? I bet people would be surprised to find out that about 5% of the people serving the United States military are not American citizens. Hey, listen, that's a great pathway to citizenship. That's, that's the point. Serve, baby. All I need you to know is that America is more worthy and important than we are. That's what it takes. Is this country going to just implode on our differences?

Or are we willing to say the great part about America is we acknowledge our faults. We achieve to be better than yesterday. And most importantly, there are bad people in this world. There are evil people in this world. And they want to take, they want to rape, they want in this world and they want to take, they want a rape, they want to kill and they want to dominate. We have to stand as the greatest force of good. And if you are willing to say that America is emblematic of that and my life is going to be dedicated to the service of the greatest force of good in this world,

I want you here. And all that other stuff, I'm sure we'll talk about it eventually when it comes to when we have a banquet and you know, you have a different partner than I have, we'll talk. It's not going to at all diminish my professionalism. It cheapens my professionalism to assume that your difference is going to me off my stride. And it's disrespectful to you to believe that your difference is going to impact your job. This is a problem. It's a problem. And if we don't fix this problem,

we're going to lose the only aspect of our federal government that's, that had 90% approval rating, which is our military. People love our military. And they're trying to turn it into, you know, Stanford University. And I'm gonna go out swinging to make sure that never happens.

Oh, my goodness, it is so good to hear the truth of that perspective. But that brings me to the lawsuits. That's what the problem tends to be sometimes. There's a little fear of litigation here and there. We'll be right back. What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here?

13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. Where am I? Why, this is the Pendleton. All residents, please return to your habitations. Light stuff on your feet! You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking.

Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and dead to me. Am I under arrest? We don't like to use that word. Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time. So this is a prison then? No, it's a rehabilitation center.

Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask, or are you going to do that? Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our first call is Mary in Lexington, Kentucky. Mary, welcome to the middle. Hello, and thanks for having me. If you really want to know what's going on in this country heading into the 2024 election,

you have to get away from the extremes and listen to the middle. Hi, my name is Vanqued. I'm calling you for Atlanta Georgia. On the new podcast, The Middle with Jeremy Hobson, I'm live every week taking your calls and focusing on Americans in the middle who are so important politically but are often ignored by the media. I did a lifetime democratic voter, however I was raised by moderate Republicans from Michigan. Creating space for a civil conversation about the most contentious issues we face, from climate change to artificial intelligence, from abortion rights to gun rights.

I consider myself to be conservative, physically, but politically independent. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Hillary Clinton back with a new season of my podcast, You and Me Both. On this show, I'll be talking to people I admire about many things, including one of my favorite subjects, Getting Things Done. We'll hear from folks and positions of power like Democratic House leader Hakeem Jeffries, but also writers and actors, community organizers

really anyone who shows up every day and keeps doing the work. There's so much out there to distract us, but all of my guests bring tremendous passion and commitment, an ability to block out the noise, and I should probably warn you lots of sports metaphors. You stay calm and focused on releasing the ball, getting it to a receiver, and hopefully getting it into the end zone on behalf of the American people. So join me for this conversation and more.

Listen to you and me both on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tell me about Maryly Carson. So she is a Gold Star mother. She's the mother. Explain that. Yes, Gold Star's blue star parents have a son or daughter that serves in the military. A Gold Star parent is someone daughter that serves in the military. A gold star parent is someone who loses someone in the military. A son or daughter.

Son or daughter. Son or daughter who loses someone in the military. And she was a gold star mom that I met in Washington, DC at a gold star mom event. And she started talking about her son. And you know, she's from Minnesota. I didn't think anything of it. And then she had mentioned that her son's nickname was Shrek. And that just kind of dropped me because you can get a middle picture immediately. He's that guy. He went to school in Minnesota with the stud first basement for the twins. They went to high school together. He was a, just a grateful ball player. This kid was about 265 pounds in the military, carried a machine gun like it was a toothpick. I mean, just a big, big Minnesota bread, Viking kid, but he was one of my dearest friends.

And he was in second platoon alpha company. And he, he died at the very end of the deployment with five other guys in a really horrible situation. But her she was constantly trying to get me to see Michael Carlson at Arlington. And I just I knew what that meant. I knew that the little game I'd been playing since I came home of It's not real. Michael's just off somewhere. I'll never talk to him again. People get you know How many people from your high school class do you talk to? Well, what have I told you they're all dead? You could rationalize not talking to them again. Life takes you separate ways. We don't begrudge the people that we don't talk to.

But having to go to Arlington, it now it's real. Now it's real. It's in granite. It's in he's right there. And I didn't want to do that. And so she was constantly trying to get me to do it in a way that I didn't want to do it. And then I saw her doing this for so many other parents that have gone with lost soldiers that her entire life is living for other people and trying to bring them through this horrific journey of getting that notification, making sense of it, trying to love and be a part of all the people who survived, but also be there for where they're grieving, their friend who happens to be her boy.

I can't, I was very stubborn. And then finally, she just broke me down and we did it. And I realized that I was, it was unnatural to hold that those feelings back. It was unnatural to not be able to grieve. It was occupying space in my life that wasn't needed to be there. And I didn't have anything to be ashamed of because honestly, I couldn't support and love and be kind to her unless I showed her that her son actually meant enough to me, enough to me where I could honor him in a way that had that take a, I had to, you had to succumb to your own vulnerability to be able to do that.

I didn't exactly do it. And that's the part that I had a hard time with because it would always be like, they'd always be steps that we would go and I would find a reason not to. And it wasn't a matter of, you know, the vulnerability thing true. I'm not good with that. Emotions. I'm probably not the best person to do a dear Abby column. You know, everything's going to end with their losers. Leave them.

You know, I mean, like, you know, it's an end of matter with the situation. But, but I do find, I do find that when a mother is grieving her son, that there are things that you owe it, it's an obligation. If I had to make the choice to, to do this for me, it never would have happened. Because I don't want to feel that way. And I don't want to be put in that position. But being obligated to do it for someone who gave us their son. Now it's not about me. It's about her. And she kind of used that reverse psychology to get me away to to mourn it. I mean, how honorable of her. She's incredible. She's, again, I, she's a, she was, you know,

obviously respected in our, she's like the adopted mom in our group. And in a sense, that's her own power. Abs, listen, that's everywhere. Again, that's, that's the now you're talking about my mission, David and everyone has it. Everyone has it. Everyone displays it.

Everyone goes through it. Speak bad. You know, we, we, we talk about the different things that we want to, well, this is more impressive than that. Can you imagine? That's human nature and everyone's going to, but at the end of the day, those stories are gonna go away and the people, we don't talk about 1898, we don't talk about 1910,

we talk about our real world and our lifetime. Our lifetimes are gonna go, but as a society and as a culture, we have to be the group. There's something uniquely in our pedigree as American citizens that Europeans don't have. I've seen it for myself, maybe you have. There's certain parts of the world

where you don't stand up and speak your mind. It's not worth it. You know, there's no ambition to do anything outside your comfort zone because there is a force or there's a government or there's something out there that will kinetically put you down. Americans, this city is built on standing up when everyone else tells you to not not to stand up to to represent things that you're not supposed to represent and how that changes everything and how one little town that's not even the town you think of when you think of the state, you think of

Nashville, you think of that Memphis changed America. And America changed the world. So I mean, there's so much to be said about encouraging that's who we are as a people. And we can never forget the group that literally said life, whether it's a cop, a fireman or a soldier that literally gives their life for the greater good in the community. That's something you've got to morning it is one thing if it's personal, but celebrating it. I tell people that memorial day should be celebrated with turkey and gravy and mashed potatoes.

And that should be Thanksgiving. Our Thanksgiving should be memorial day. We should be grateful that our nation exists where people are willing to say in all this crazy chaos, this country's worth it, your worth it. I had a Vietnam vet. Everyone thanks me for my service everywhere I go.

And they're like, thank you for your service. And you don't know what to say. Like, hey, college wasn't working out. You know, I'm a pretty good shot. I figured, you know, like, what do you say when they say thank you for your service? Like, you're welcome. It's so it's pretentious.

This Vietnam vet told me Gary Biker. He said, next time someone does that, look him in the eye and say, you're worth it. Oh, wow. And that, and by the that, look him in the eye and say, you're worth it. Oh, wow. And that, and by the way, do that in LA. They'll think you're insane. You know, it's like, I tell people it's like substitute and God bless you with someone's sneezes and you say, Jesus loves you.

You know, I mean, like, I'm totally breaking their frame. They're not accustomed to it. But the fact is, when someone thanks you for your service, you say, you know what, you're worth it. And it totally changes the dynamic. It does. Ultimately, that's exactly why everyone does something for the community. But ultimately, you're worth it. Ultimately, that's what you gained from your experience with her. She taught me that. She didn't, those weren't her words, but those were her actions. And that's the love she showed me. And I am a forever grateful. Marley Carlson is a, uh, yeah, I love her.

And I appreciate her. Since it's talking about a metal celebrating valor and her valor and the Ramrods valor, there's another little piece of valor that has inspired you. and it oddly was at the end of your father's life. Tell us about that. Everyone that I had seen, everyone fought for their life and it was usually in a very small window and whether they won the fight or they lost the fight, no one gave into it. And I had the perception through seen people was that death is horrible and death is the worst thing in the world and we avoided it all costs. And when we die, we failed and we lost.

You lose the battle, you lose the fight, you pass away. My dad was the first time I saw death You lose the battle, you lose the fight, you pass away. My dad was the first time I saw death and I saw a strength in it. And I saw a person that the way they went into death was so fearless. It was just, I have faith and I believe this. And a lot of people have faith until they see their own blood on the ground. Or they realize that the end is near.

And then there's a panic. This is a guy who just absolutely had no panic to him. He had no panic. He had no fear. He was, you know, almost like he was looking at an almond act of so St. Peter, I'm going to take a right at that exit. You know, like, like, he was so confident of what was going to happen when he died that he had a triptych, you know, the whole

thing. It was so, I never say anything like it before. And, and I was forever changed by it. And so do I think of, you know, we all think of our parents at an age, I think of my dad 30 or I was 12 or I was whatever. Every image I have of my dad is of that image because as though I lie and I as Tim and thought he was Superman when I was nine, I'd never saw him stronger, tougher

or more worthy of the title of being, you know, my hero than when he died, which is incredible that the strongest you see him was on his death. Yeah, yeah, because he just went in it with there was this, he didn't lose. He didn't lose. He didn't, he didn't quit. He was just like, it's gonna, this is happening. I have no control over it. But I'll tell you what, I'd love to have another 20 years with you. I'd love to have another 20 years of my grandkids. But I'm not gonna have that. So I'm, I know where I'm going. I know what I'm, what I was promised. I know who I am. But more importantly, I know who you are. And I know that this was the perfect amount of time to get you out there to do what you have to do. And just know that, you know, I'll be with you and you're, you're loved.

You'll always be loved. You'll always be proud of you, but I'm just not going to be here for it. What a awesome, what a awesome end to a story that started with the sickening feeling you got from the look from your father. Yeah, shame. Yeah, no, he returned that to me and, and that, that's, that's cool. I, I, I won't, I can't, that's, you, those are experiences that you have and you're just like, I can't be the same person. You know, I mean, it, it's too profound. And clearly, that helps support your greatness. Well, I know it's weird to be called great. It's an honor folks. That's it. No, you're right. I listen, this has been a that everything that you're talking about now, it plays so perfectly into,

you know, are there veterans out there listening to this program? Maybe there are, maybe there are, but I could tell you that whatever separates us and what we decided to do to serve that element of service is identical. Why we do the things we do to make the group better, to make the team better, I know a quality team is going to have individuals that will remember these life lessons when they're out of work. And in your experience and in what we're talking about, that team is our country. Amen. And the army is each of us.

Yes, absolutely. We'll be right back. So as you as listeners and viewers can see, David's far from just a meathead soldier, after service, you wrote the first book that I read, which by and large is the account of what you've just shared with us, right? What year did you write it? That was 2006, it came out in 2007. 2006 came out in 2007 and was it with the help of the...

I actually don't know this. John Brooney? Yeah. Yeah, John Brooney. It's awesome. One of my dearest friends, I've known him since then, John Brooney. Yeah. Yeah. John Brooney. Yeah. Awesome. One of my dearest friends. I've known him since then. I love him. John Brooney is, I think, one of the most talented writers today. And Ray Porter, who did the, the, Ray Porter who did that is the Harry Potter guy. He did the voice. He does all the great books. If there's a best seller out there,

Ray Porter does the voices. He's amazing. So house to house. I read it in five hours on my cell phone one night, and that's when I, I guess I gained a man crush on you. Well, I appreciate that. House to house is a guy coming home from war that's just really doesn't know what's going on. And which is you. And you know, when they read,

they did a new version of House to house and I just started deleting a lot of cuss words that I don't, you know, wasn't particularly proud. At one point, I think there was like 177 on one page, and I was like, you know, maybe they get the point. After the first, we'll change that. But it was a guy coming up from war that was sick of, you know, writing

what I thought was like war pornography. And it didn't. War pornography. Yeah, the sense that people want to just read about killing people and shooting people. Rather than the relationship. Rather than what this is, that was a them war. You know, it was about my team and my unit. And then when the Medal of Honor comes out out there, like, please write a book, it has to be about anything. And I'm like, well, I want that to be a middle age man looking back, which is, which is remember the ram, remember the ram, it's a more mature, which was what year? 22.

22 came out in 2022 remember the Ramrods which is your I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I would have caught that. Oh, but anyway, neither here nor there. Uh, it's a book that's a more mature book. I'm, I'm just trying to look back and make sense of. Because this really is not about a plug to sell books. It's no, I will let's turn into it. If we could know for no, for me, it's about the greater, the greater story of an army and normal folks, exactly. And the greater story of supporting greatness, which is a normal kid that grew up in New York with a town without a stoplight who doesn't even have the

temerity or the courage to confront shirtless methodics while they walk around stealing confront shirtless methodics while they walk around stealing VCRs from your family home, who is mortified by the look of shame and his father's eyes, who joins the army to find something inside him so that he can better himself, who ends up clearing a house of insurgents, I guess they're called insurgents of the enemy in Fallujah, literally hand-to-hand. And who leaves all that behind, it has a story written at the bottom that leads to the Medal of Honor where you're one of one in the world, which is the only guy with that thing that's living today from those battles, who writes a book about not only that experience, but then a second book celebrating the very people that did support his greatness. And obviously has an enormous passion for the vitality of our diverse military.

And it's just this story wrought with love and honor and valor and irony. And you're the tip of a spear that's entire shaft is held together about all of these people, your father, your grandfather, the Ramrods, the the media that was around you. And I just got to ask you, you know, does the does the weight bear down on your shoulders? I, you know, I so hearing you tell that whole story, I really should have been tipped off that they were shirtless.

They really was the takeaway. I was a takeaway. I hear him say that I was like, what the hell was I think they were shirtless, David? I did the worst job. But you can tell that really sunk into his head because he was like, they were shirtless. Well, what were you thinking? Like even in the first telling him a glassy shirtless dude. You're in my BCR.

I watched your my garbage cans. I watched your your documentary and I gotta tell you there's it started a cottage industry of things that are all trying to be what undefeated was. And I was obviously taken by what you were trying to do with that program, the kids that you were working with, the intent in which you conducted yourself. And then of course, everything you've done since then, it's in a way, one of the things that I wanted to meet you,

but I also wanted to do this podcast because I believe in my heart that our biggest problem is that we take, you know, military people, police, fire, all the folks out there that are doing the job's education, this, the hospitals, all the, the people we need in our world. And we put them on pedestals that say, I can never do that. I'll never be that guy, right? And in a way that inoculates a lot of people from never trying to be that person in their world. Now, I hope you never ever get into a situation we have to kick down a door. Because I mean, honestly,

people always ask me, David, if you could do it over again, would you? And I tell them, no, not a chance to drop the bomb. And you sh** me. I mean, why would I want to go through that again? No, not a chance of that. I would have waited for the A10. I would have waited. I would have put a 10 out waiting for that A10. I would never want to do that again. So they're like, well, but what is it about you that's different?

My entire life's mission is to remind people that there is no difference. And there should be no difference. There's a moment in your life that you're going to have a medal of honor moment. And mind.com with a reporter and hopefully not with machine guns and rockets, but you're going to see a kid who's going to get who's bullied. You're going to see a person who's overweight and everyone's making fun of them. There's going to be a, you know, someone with mental difficulties that everyone's trying fun of them, there's gonna be someone with mental difficulties that everyone's trying to take advantage of.

That's the moment that you stand up and say not a chance. I'm not gonna tolerate that. I'm going to stand up for weak people. I'm gonna stand up for people who can't defend themselves. I'm gonna take a kid that doesn't have a mom or a dad at home and tell that kid that they're loved, they have value and change their direction.

That's a mental-von or moment in our lives. And the more people that we can look at and say, wow, this kid with no mom and dad worked hard, went to Division I, is now a multi-millionaire. He's so lucky. That's when I think we just add to the corrosion in our world. They're not lucky, right?

You could have done that too. You chose not to go in and you don't have the gifts to play football. You have the gifts to be an intellect. You can go to school, you can get a degree, you can work the extra hours no one wants to work to get promoted. You can decide not to put people in your lives that get you pregnant and run away from you. You can make all of these decisions that better you. Do you find value in yourself and do you have the greatness in yourself

to realize that needs to be protected? Everyone has individual greatness. You have to protect it. You have to keep it from the outside world. And when there are the thugs and the idiots that are out there that wanna try to steal from your great, because that's the thing about idiots. They're attracted to greatness.

They barnacle to the US as greatness. When you're out there doing your thing, you don't notice in your life, everything you're doing wrong and man, you are just getting through. Everything's great. You're lying, you're being an idiot, you're misrepresenting, you're not doing the things you're supposed to do. You wake up at 11 o'clock, you don't brush your teeth anymore, you're being an idiot, you're misrepresenting, you're not doing the things you're supposed to do, you wake up at 11 o'clock, you don't brush your teeth anymore, you smoke the menthols, you've mixed it up, right?

You're living your life and you're just a complete loser and there is no obstacle in your world. Everything is just moving along. The moment you decide, no, I'm going to discipline myself. I'm going to show integrity when people aren't looking. I'm going to do the right things, say the right things, be the right person. That's when everything comes your way. Everything comes your way to tell you, you sure? You sure you don't want to just not go to the gym? You sure you just want to eat whatever you want to eat? You sure you just want to, you know, no one's going to know, no one's going to

know who you're talking to or who you're hanging out with. Do it. Those are the times that everything comes crashing down. And that's when you realize that if, if a moron can get you to get in their car when they're drunk, they're not a moron because they got you. And if a moron can get you to cheat on a test, guess what? They're not so stupid. They got you to do it. You've got to realize that once you're living a life and you have identified your greatness, you've got to protect it. We got to protect it.

I get so upset when I hear adults asking young people, what do you want to be when you grow up? Right? Now, that's a slippery slope. At some point, you want the world to know, this is what I want to be when you grow up, right? Now, that's a slippery slope. At some point, you want the world to know this is what I want to do. At the other point, you want to protect that dream. Because you know that once you tell the world, I want to play Division I football.

Everyone of the right mind is going to invite you to a party on Friday night. Everyone of the right mind is going to want you to hang out with a crowd that's going to be around drugs and alcohol and guns and all this other crap. They know that because you have a destiny and a path and idiots are going to want to get on that path and take you off it. And so not only do we have to remind people that there is no separation between people who achieve and people who don't. The separation is the discipline and the will and the ability to say the one word. I learned in my 40s.

And that is no. And then I learned another word that goes with it, which is no. No, I don't want this. I don't want you. I don't want to be associated with you. I don't want to say, I don't want to be in that group. I don't want to be in this crowd. I don't want to be associated with you. I don't want to say, I don't want to be in that group. I don't want to be in this crowd. I don't want to hang out with you people. I have no obligation. My obligation is to my family and to my own honor and my own sense of spirit. And that is,

I'm not betraying that. Not because it looks good on a wiki entry. Not because I get a beer with my face on it. I do it because it's my obligation to do. It's me. I'm more important than you. And some of these generations, you know, we look at generation Z and say they're narcissistic and they're selfish. I'd like some of that. I know a lot of people that sacrifice so much,

they have no sense of self. Why are you doing, why are you standing out, constructing a knit piece of your anatomy They have no sense of self. Why are you doing, why are you standing out, constructing a knit piece of your anatomy and wearing it on your head and punching police horses? You're doing it for the cause. The cause of the good day of the volume. You're an idiot and you're following the herd.

Maybe these young kids that are all about them, we need to empower them to truly be about them and realize if you want a great community, we got great individuals that make a great community. Be a strong individual, protect the people that can't protect themselves, be a mentor to as many people as possible, and be a part of the most dynamic community in the greatest country in the world. You mean an army of normal folks?

An army of normal folks. I thought we weren't plugging. Now we are. Well, that's that's the world. You mean an army of normal folks? An army of normal, I thought we weren't plugging. Now we know. Well, that's that's the point, but we'll plug. It's that's in a, that's what you are in a New York accent and a different layout, but exactly what I believe. Well, I, I, I really, I know a person that has come from all the ups and downs, all the things that you've endured and why you do it. I mean, titles are great. Coaching at that level is awesome. The attention is fun. But if you're on your deathbed and you're like, if I only had three more days to play that

app, who on their deathbed is like, man, if I would have got that extra code to the end, you know, I could have one more plaque and I could just suck up this last I would you and me the the hereafter, no one gives a damn about it. But I'm telling you what, if to be able to look at yourself and realize that there is a young person out there that's going to do something that makes them uncomfortable and grow and be their own person. That's what the inner city needs. That's what our country rural area needs.

That's what the suburbs need. You know, they want to separate us by music, skin color, socioeconomic background, sexual preference, religion, politics. There is so much more that we have in common, right? And, and the toxicity that's out there are people who need it to be toxic. They're the ones that are profiting off this toxicity. And all I'm saying is, they're scumbags. They're no different than the people in the garage on a Friday night going to the Division 1 athlete. Let's get high and drunk and shoot guns in the air.

It's the same type of person they've just graduated to Ashtrays. So, David, you have served this country and lost friends. I guess brothers and arms, you've reached the highest honor there is for any military man in the United States. And now after all of that, you are clearly, you clearly have a message to tell in your books and the things you speak about. And in supporting greatness, you know, we talk about your grandfather teaching how to be steady and your father teaching how to be unflappable and the Ramrods giving you accountability. What's the most important to the God your life today?

Accountability. Accountability. More than anything. Yeah. More than anything. I, you know, than anything. I'm going to make mistakes. I'm going to be imperfect. I'm going to be loud. I'm going to want to do things that frustrate me.

But at the end of the day, I have to be accountable. And that's a proactive thing, too. When you're accountable, you can be proactive to not do the things that you know are, are not things that you should be doing. My football coach always said the true measure of accountability is what you do when you're alone and nobody will know. Absolutely. In other words, it's easy to be accountable when you know that if you do

something, your your parents your coach your teacher gonna fall out but when when you have the opportunity to do something you shouldn't be doing that nobody would ever know and you don't do it anyway because it's the right thing to do that's when you become truly accountable. Do you know it's funny though it like okay so you're right now as a coach you're far better than you were when you were in your late 20s. Oh gosh. Right. I was, listen, I loved kids just as much back then as I do now, but I'm gonna tell you something. I sought from that. It's an outstanding point. Okay. So, so there's no reason reason that Paul McCartney is not a better musician today than he was when he was 22.

And this is, I think with regard to that, don't you think H has something to do with? I don't. I think it has to do with suffering. Really? Suffering is what, there's a moment of everything that you get in life. You know, they say the ancient saying is that everything you want is on the other side of fear, right? But the artist will tell you, you have to suffer for your art. The professional will tell you, you have to be in that windowless room and do your 10,000 hours before you can get a business card.

And then you get your office and your staff. And then you hit your stride and then you work hard. But at some point, everyone says, this is enough. And it's okay to say that, but you could say this is enough. I've had enough. I've had enough. I don't need it. I don't want it.

There's other things that are important. Palm McCartney doesn't need to go on the road when he's 80. Right. Mick Jagger evidently does. Right? It's a totally different, but it just showed you. It's not what he wants, right? But somehow we have taken out that suffering part in along the journey that it really sucks to get up at 5 a.m. every day and do exercises.

It's no one wants that. Do you have to do it at 5 a.m.? Some people have to because they have to suffer. They have to put themselves at 5 a.m.? Some people have to because they have to suffer. They have to put themselves through something to say, I worked for it and it was needed. I earned it. And what I think we've done in the era of helicopter parents to the parents that are the bulldozer parents, we used to want to be there when you made a decision. Now we want to eliminate the obstacle completely. So you have a perfect life. So you're stripping the opportunity for your children to suffer, to suffer. Reach their full potential.

Because ultimately what it is, is it's- And ironically, if you're a word, you take away their ability to learn how to be accountable. That's what we're getting back to. Everything, if there's one thing I could tell the young people we do it all over the high schools and the colleges, everywhere we go is we tell them, the one thing that's different about you than any other generation is adults have failed you in reminding you

that it's negative and bad to fail. That's how we failed you. We failed you because of failure. You are afraid to make a mistake and you're afraid to make to screw up and that is the essence of everything we do. We don't practice, at the end of practice, guys, I don't even know why we're going to do this tomorrow. That was brilliant.

That was awesome. We're good. Right? What are you doing? No, there's always a correction. There's always going gonna be a mistake. Ironically enough, that metal wouldn't be sitting on this table if you hadn't failed in your parents house one night.

Or if I hadn't failed in that house, let's be honest, I've got to fail throughout everything. There's mistakes that you make that you realize, I don't want to be in a house full of six people. That's not by plan. You know, you got through it. Whatever lesson you learned, you got through it. But a valor reward is based on really bad intelligence and really bad situation,

a little weird. That's why we have these things. They're not supposed to happen. Otherwise, we go to base of training and the first day would be like, we're going to send 12 guys at you. I wouldn't require you to be in the house if everything worked out perfectly. It has to be a mistake. Everything is about mistakes.

So those failures. Those failures are the... So you need to more success. More successes. And all we have to do is remind young people, you're gonna screw up, we want controlled failure. Controlled failure, where we know at the end of the day, you're gonna learn how to drive a car.

But just in case, I'm putting a brake pedal on this side too. I just say it, you're allowed to screw up, but I do have access to the brake system because I don't exactly try, I want controlled failure. Give a kid a left limit and a right limit, discipline them, give them that controlled failure, and you're gonna have the best adult we have in our society. We're gonna be better than World War II,

better than Vietnam, better than my generation. If we continue down this path, no accountability, failure doesn't exist, go be perfect, and go create an R&B album that's gonna get 500 million downloads, we're gonna fail, and we're gonna, unfortunately, that's gonna be a failure that you can't get out of. So, as we, before we wrap, what are you doing now? I do this. This is what I do now. I did a radio show before I was, you know, given the metal of honor. And it was just something I love in my hometown. Buffalo is such a great

town. And we're just, Buffalo is such a great town. And we're just, Buffalo is a place where you could be like, yeah, I was on the tonight show yesterday and they're like, yeah, but you weren't on the couch. Right? You were standing, I mean, technically I was on the tonight show and I wasn't even there.

You know, like they have a way to just humble you. And they're brilliantly exquisitely rough about it, but it's just that blue collar. Don't ever think you're better than a guy. I got a metal monitor. Yeah. Yeah, but really, yeah, but what is it really? I don't even know what it is to me. Do you have a daytime, Meme?

Then shut up and sit out. No, like, like there's a great way to emasculate. You would give you, but the people are assault of the earth. And we had a horrific event where we had a white guy walk into a all black neighborhood, shoot up a bunch of people in a grocery store every reason. And many people tried to hijack that and make that about, you know, we have a problem. Everyone hates everyone.

How do we're never going to fix that? Let's just exacerbate it and throw gas on the fire. But we had clergy. We had people in the inner city, people in the suburbs, people come together and just say, look, we've got to stop this from happening again. But more importantly, remind people who we are. You know, it's the only everywhere there's a mass shooting. It was the only time I've seen a press conference for a mass shooting that opened with a word of prayer and ended with a word of prayer. With a sheriff and a

mayor and a you name it, it started with a prayer and ended with a prayer and I'm very proud of my hometown and and that's who we are and and being able to you know talk to them and you know keep them going is something I take a lot of a lot of pride in. David I am I am so honored to join us and ironically, you, this is kind of a crossover show. You are just a normal guy who's done amazing things for the service of so many. All of our country that people you served with, the young kids as a staff sergeant you led. And then, which led to you being in a great position and talk about who supported your greatness, the ramrod, your father, your grandfather, the men you served with, and your stories are so inspirational and the things you've had to

say are so thought-for-voking, especially about let's not screw up the one thing that 90% of us all can agree on, which is our military's good, and the people who serve in it are the best of us. And brother, I cannot thank you enough for joining us. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate this. A lot of fun.

And I hope this is the first of many conversations, not with cameras, but the first of many conversations we had down the road. I look forward to having you and being able to talk to you about everything else that's happened in the world. Me too, but I enjoyed it. It was good. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. And thank you for joining us this week. If David or another guest has inspired you in general or better yet to take action, please let me know. I'd love to hear about it. has inspired you in general or better yet to take action. Please let me know. I'd love to hear about it. You can write me anytime at billatnormalfokes.us. And I promise you, I will respond.

And if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends and on social, subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it. Become a premium member at normalfokes.os, all these things that will help grow an army of normal folks. For our premium members, we'll have bonus content from this episode, and it's David and I talking about post-traumatic stress disorder, PTSD, among his fellow soldiers, and he even cracks me a little bit on this and rightfully so. If you don't want to miss it, become a premium member today and you'll see it. I'd also like to, at the end, really tell you how much I

appreciate our sponsor, Iron Light Labs. I'm Bill Courtney, I'll see you next week. 13 Days of Halloween Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. If I am under arrest, you have to tell me what I'm charged with. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead To Me. Please, you've been some kind of mistake. I'm not supposed to be here. How do you know?

I'm innocent. Are any of us truly innocent? From earring October 19th, ending Halloween. Listen to 13 Days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jane Marie, host of The Dream, and I'm excited to announce that we're back with a brand new season. A lot has changed since last season, like, you know, the whole world and everything, but also my butt. I have been sitting on it for a couple of years, and

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