An Army of Normal Folks - Tara Sundem: Helping Babies With Opioid Withdrawal (Pt 2)

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

Tara is a NICU nurse who experienced the epidemic of newborns withdrawing from their moms’ drugs that they got in the womb. And she also experienced that they weren’t given great treatment. Tara stumbled into a solution that’s better for everyone (babies, parents, taxpayers), and her Hushabye Nursery has helped 695 infants & their families!Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney with An Army of Normal Folks and we continue now with part two of our conversation with Tara Sundum right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. It started with a backpack at the 1996 Centennial Olympic Games. A backpack that contained a bomb. While the authorities focused on the wrong suspect, a serial bomber planned his next attacks. Two abortion clinics and a lesbian bar.

But this isn't his story. It's a human story. One that I've become entangled with. I saw as soon as I turned the corner, basically someone bleeding out. The victims of these brutal attacks were left to pick up the pieces, forced to explore the gray areas between right and wrong, life and death. Their once ordinary lives, and mine, changed forever. It kind of gave me a feeling of pending doom.

And all the while, our country found itself facing down a long and ugly reckoning with a growing threat. Far right, homegrown, religious terrorism. Listen to Flashpoint on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, Bowen, the Olympics are underway. It's useless to talk about it as a thing that's happening in the future when it's happening in the present. It's happening now. And what's happening now is our podcast, Two Guys, Five Rings, is a phenomenon. And while real medals are being handed out in Paris, we're giving out our fake medals

here. Two Guys, Five Rings, Matt Bowen, and the Olympics. Who are we watching in this Olympic Games? I mean, I'm watching Simone Biles. I'm watching her go higher and higher and higher with every bounce. Sha'Carri's about to run faster than you or I or anyone has ever seen. I'm ready for the girls and the boys and everybody under the Seine River. Under the Seine, over the Seine, within the waters of the San, all of them. Follow the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast platform

and watch and listen to every moment of the 2024 Paris Olympic Games now through August 11th on NBC and Peacock and for the first time ever on the iHeartRadio app. Hey guys, I'm Andrei Gunning, host of There and Gone South Street. In this series, we follow the case of Richard Patrón and Daniel Imbo, two people who went missing in Philadelphia nearly two decades ago and have never been found. Unlike most cases, there is not a single piece of physical evidence connected to this crime, but the FBI knows there was foul play.

I'm excited to share that you can now get access to all new episodes of There and Gone South Street, 100% ad free and one week early with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple podcasts. So don't wait, head to Apple podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today. There is a social stigma with addiction. Oh, absolutely. All right. And so I view, this is my psychology days coming back from a lifetime ago, but I do view alcoholism the same way I view diabetes or cancer. It is a disease and we can talk about it all we want to,

but it hasn't erased the stigma. Even though people that understand it have studied it feel like we're standing at the top of a mountain screaming at the top of our lungs, quit looking down on somebody that's addicted to something, because that addiction is a disease no different than cancer, epilepsy or whatever. But the stigma is there. I just wonder, and I could be well faced, but I'm curious, really just a curiosity. Among healthcare professionals. Have you noticed that stigma as well? In other words, she's an addict, we'll get to her kind of attitude. Yeah, I was I was that. I mean, I, I, I would look at babies and

be like, how did you, if you'd loved your baby, how did you do this to your baby? And I did not understand opioid use disorder. When when we started Hushabye, it was to make it better for the babies. I honestly, it was not about the parents at all. I was like, I in fact, they were the villains. Yeah. I mean, I was like, you did this to your baby. Now I've learned. And I've learned so much more about trauma and, and how important the biological parent is that

I reversed and went, okay, we have to get you all well to have this baby be successful in life. I have to get that family well. Did you ever notice an extension of that? Not in you? Did you ever notice an extension of that? Stigma to the baby itself? Well, yeah, I will, even with me, I, so when you're when you're a nurse in the NICU, you usually have a two to four baby assignment. So one nurse, two to four babies, depends on how sick they are. And you would have a baby that was withdrawing and it was usually in a three baby assignment. So you would leave a 12 hour shift not doing a good job because you couldn't

get to them. And I remember coming in the next day, coming in early, going, I'm not taking that assignment. I don't want to deal with it. No, and they'd be like, I'm like, I did my time yesterday, I'm not doing it again. That's an addicted baby of an addicted mother. Meanwhile, we've got this perfect parents with this premature baby. I want to take care of that.

Yeah, I want to do that, yes. Yeah, so I did that. I will tell you I absolutely did that. That is a very inconvenient raw truth. Yeah. So not only are we talking about babies that didn't deserve the addiction they're born with, oftentimes they suffer the same stigma their parents do even as infants.

Cause they're really hard to care for. Yeah. They suck. I mean, and they scream and who wants to be screamed at for eight hours. And you don't feel like, I mean, you, I think people that go into healthcare, you want to make a difference. I think everybody wants to make a difference in the world, but you want to make a difference. And when you leave your job that day and feel like you didn't do a good job because you

didn't have the ability, the hands to be able to do a good job. That's not fun. I mean, I love my job. I really do. And I loved being a bedside nurse. But on those days, I didn't. I love taking care of the babies this big and the parents praise me and thought I was great. The baby that was screaming. Most of the time parents weren't around. Parents weren't around because we did not feel make them feel welcome at all. Because there are a bunch of those quote, those addicts and they made us nervous. So

I think that's something everybody should actually marinate on a little bit because we have to get our arms around these are also diseased people. And nobody wants to be an addict. Correct. Nobody chooses. I want to grow up and be an opioid addict. And I want to have children that I cause pain through my addiction. So there's tons of guilt associated with it, which also is more trauma, which also probably, ironically enough, perpetually drives the disease even more. Correct. Yeah. All of the above. All of it.

So let's go back to what you said earlier, which is a transition for you. You start noticing when you throw these kids in a closet, they do better. Which I thought was a little bit of a joke, but explain it. Yeah. So so we were I was in a tiny little NICU, not far from where where my home was. I need to be closer to my kids. So tiny little closer. We're a hospital. Yeah. Hospital closer to us. And it was six beds in my neighborhood.

And five to six babies withdrawing at a time. Hold it. And the point about in your neighborhood, you live in a nice neighborhood. Yeah, nobody's supposed to show up in that neighborhood with opioid addicted children. Right? You're you live in the good part of town. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, my eyes were open. I was like, what in the world? So I call over to my regular hospital, big hospital. And my county babies here withdrawing there. Like I don't know. And I'm like, how many babies do you have withdrawing there?

They're like, I don't know. And I'm like, no, no, no, I need you to count out of the 80 beds. I need you to count how many babies do we have there withdrawing. Because what we did in the big unit was they would come in, I'd admit them, I'd do my exam. And then they would go over on the doc or the resident team, which means they're not getting two caregivers. They're getting them looked at once a day. They're not getting a practitioner and a doctor looking at them because they're those babies.

And called over there and they're like, we have a dozen. I'm like, no way, had no idea. And then I start calling over to all the different East Valley hospitals in Phoenix and I'm like, how many do you have? And at any given time for like six months, I'd call monthly and we'd have almost two dozen babies. And my eyes were opened. Then I had families, I had three families come in. Two were the biological parents. They were very frustrated because they said, you just want to keep my baby on the NICU. That's the reason you keep

giving medication. And I was like, no, this is not it. Went through everything. They're like, no, it's always in the middle of the night between two and five o'clock in the morning and always with this nurse practitioner and this nurse. And I was like, we don't, that's not it, whatever. Both parents said it probably a couple months apart. And then I start looking and I'm like, crap. You look back at the data and you're like, yep, it is with that nurse and that practitioner and that physician. And it's between two and five o'clock in the morning. Then I have

So what are they doing drug and the baby so I don't have to deal with them? They're tired, they're exhausted. And if you don't have good energy, the baby is going to feed off that anxiety. And so I mean, even at Hushabye, if I have certain nurses that start to get anxious, the energy in the unit, pretty soon all the babies are crying. It's like, okay, you need to go take a breather, you need to get yourself into check, because you are making everyone anxious. And so the parents are seeing this? Yeah, they're they're

going, okay, so this is happening. So then let's, but we're talking also about the parents who had the addicted child So you're talking about but they're but these two were these two sets were on the prescribed medication Methadone, I got it. So they're well, so they're well, they're well And they want their child. Yeah, and their child can't get out of the nicu. It's months Every night in the middle of the night, we go up on their dose. We don't get them down. We have to get them off the morphine to be able to get them home. And it was just

frustrating. And then I had an a set of adoptive parents, they were coming and getting their second baby, same birth mama, we didn't get her well. And after the first baby, so the adoptive parents, we knew them from a previous baby. And the dad said, he goes, I am not leaving tonight, because you're going to give, you're going to bump up the medication. They had another baby. They're from out of state, they're staying in a hotel,

and every day that we give another dose of morphine, that means another 48 hours added onto the stay. And he was saying, you're not doing this anymore. You're not doing it, call me. Call me at two o'clock in the morning, I don't care. And so I was working and he was very firm. I was like, okay, you're the sweetest guy in the whole wide world and you are irked.

And two third in the morning, that nurse, I was working and he was, they called me and when I got in there for a baby to be sweating like beads of sweat. He's cried for a long time. And they call me and I'm like, Okay, well, this dad does not want me to give him medication. I'm like, call him because we said we're gonna call him. It's gonna take him 30 minutes to get here. But call him. And I'm gonna take baby into the closet and I took baby into the closet and within 10 minutes had babies sleeping. No lights, no noise. Completely dark. Because the headache and food-like symptoms times a hundred. And the energy.

Started to calm. Yep and the energy of me going doing doing, I did yoga back then, and I would just do my, and hold my breath and then let it out. Because I was like, Terry, you have to regulate yourself. This baby screaming is getting you. And what I found out was when you would do those deep breaths, all of a sudden baby would be screaming. But every time I took a breath, he would like, All of a sudden baby would be screaming, but every time I took a breath he would like and Then he starts screaming, but I'd interrupt that fit and I just kept doing it. I was like, oh my gosh. I'm pretty soon. I'm He was sleeping in the dad like peaked in the closet he's like We're good and Started doing that more and more with more babies.

And I'm like, this works. This almost reminds me of these, of these discoveries we're here about where somebody's looking for one thing and they bounce across another. I mean, you almost kind of figured this out accidentally. Yeah. Yeah, really. We did. Yeah, really we did and so you found that Taking the child out of the bright lights blinking arena and

making it quiet and calm and Feeling a lack of anxiety and the breath and all of that Actually help them chill. Yeah, they do. It's crazy. That is phenomenal on one hand, but it's also obvious. When I have, when I, well, no, but when I have a, I'm thinking of myself, you know,

I used to have sleep problems and I wouldn't sleep through the night and because I wouldn't sleep through the night, I would wake up with massive headaches, bad ones. And I'm running a business and I'm coaching football and I'm in the heat and the sun and the loud of whistling I really was for about a year and a half and I Can remember my happy place was literally I would get in my truck and I would not turn and it was lights were the sun was going down and On the ride home. I would not play the radio, I would not do anything. And when

the light went down, and it got dark, and it would get cool. And I wasn't hot and sweaty that and I lived 45 minutes from that drive was the one place I felt I started to chill and my head wasn't pounding. I started to regulate life my head wasn't pounding. My eyes weren't hurting and I started to regulate life. Which I haven't thought about in a long time actually, but I'm sitting here thinking about that, listening to you thinking, well, duh. I mean, I guess.

And if it's that easy, and it's not easy work, but if it's that easy and that simple, why don't we do it? And you're not medicating children. Correct. So if it is, which it is, it's proven. We have data that is crazy that it supports it, but it's not still not the gold standard of care. So I got to believe you went to the hospital and said, Hey, I got a new idea.

And they said, you're crazy. They just the it just can't be done. What do you mean? It can't be done. They don't have that. Yeah, we don't have the staff. We don't have the staff. We don't have the place we don't have. We just it's just not it's not the way that it's done. How old are you at this point? How long have you been? Not how old are you? How long have you been in nursing at this point? How long have you been, not how old are you, how long have you been in nursing at this point? 22 years. Well then you know what you're talking about.

Oh yes. You have all of the experience of the way it's always been done. Yes. Against this discovery or awakening that you're experiencing in your own professional life. And I gotta believe you're saying Please listen that we can do this a different way. Yeah But and everyone's hearing and they believe it but it is a matter of its the It's very insurance driven. It's very you know, how are you gonna get reimbursed for something?

This has never been done before how are you going to get reimbursed for something? This has never been done before. How are you going to get licensed? How do you make this a six? The dreaded, we've always done it this way. Always, always. And still, you still, I still, day in and day out, talk with different people that say, I'm certain in every hospital in Memphis, this is the way it's done. Yeah, it's like, this is

just you're we're not going to do that. Okay. But you said, well, I am. Yes. Well, I had one person tell me I couldn't do it. And my husband's like, whoops. I invite him I invite him every year to our little event. I'm like, come on over. Okay, so you're you can't do it. You just can't do that. So you said, we're going to it's what's right. Watch me. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I don't I didn't know what I didn't know. I am not a

business person. So I had no idea how to do any of that. I just knew that care could be better. And if it was my baby, I would have demanded the closet. I would have said that my baby's going in the closet no matter what. And that just, it's what's right. And what needed to be done. I think the tagline to this thing is,

terror changes the world by throwing babies in closets. We'll be right back. It started with a backpack at the 1996 Centennial Olympic Games. A backpack that contained a bomb. While the authorities focused on the wrong suspect, a serial bomber planned his next attacks. Two abortion clinics and a lesbian bar. But this isn't his story. It's a human story. One that I've become entangled with. I saw as soon as I turned the corner, basically someone bleeding out.

The victims of these brutal attacks were left to pick up the pieces, forced to explore the gray areas between right and wrong, life and death. Their once ordinary lives, and mine, changed forever. It kind of gave me a feeling of pending doom. And all the while, our country found itself facing down a long and ugly reckoning with a growing threat. Far right, homegrown, religious terrorism. Listen to Flashpoint on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, Vaughn, the Olympics are underway. It's useless to talk about it as a thing that's happening in the future when it's happening

in the present. It's happening now. And what's happening now is our podcast, Two Guys, Five Rings, is a phenomenon. And while real medals are being handed out in Paris, we're giving out our fake medals here. Two Guys, Five Rings, Matt Bowen, and the Olympics. Who are we watching in this Olympic Games? I mean, I'm watching Simone Biles. I'm watching her go higher and higher and higher with every bounce.

Sha'Carri's about to run faster than you or I or anyone has ever seen. I'm rooting for the girls and the boys and everybody under the San River. Under the San, over the the sand within the waters of the sand all of them follow the show on the iHeartRadio app apple podcast or your favorite podcast platform and watch and listen to every moment of the 2024 Paris Olympic Games now through August 11th on NBC and Peacock and for the first time ever on the iHeartRadio app. Hey guys, I'm Adria Gunning, host of There and Gone South Street. In this series, we follow the case of Richard Patrón and Daniel Imbo,

two people who went missing in Philadelphia nearly two decades ago and have never been found. Unlike most cases, there is not a single piece of physical evidence connected to this crime. But the FBI knows there was foul play. I'm excited to share that you can now get access to all new episodes there and gone South Street, a hundred percent ad free and one week early with an I Heart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple podcasts. So don't wait. Head to Apple podcasts, search for I Hard True Crime Plus and subscribe today.

Tell me what you did. Yeah. Well, we heard about Lilly's Place in West Virginia. Lilly's Place. Yes. They were on the Today Show and my co co founder, also a nurse practitioner, she watches TV loves TV. And she was like, what about Lily's place and they were being interviewed in this tiny town in West Virginia inundated by the opioid crisis with lots of areas like that lots of those rural mountain areas have bad problems? Like inundated. They out of necessity took over an old dental building, I believe is what it was, had eight beds for babies that were withdrawing. They took them out of the

NICU, which I think was the 32 bed NICU. There were not beds for babies that needed them, the babies that were born premature because there were so many babies with drawing. And so we heard about them. So by necessity, they had to open something else. They did. So the NICU could take care of actually the premature babies.

Yep, yep. And so we heard about them. We're like, let's go visit, see what they're doing. Again, didn't know what we were doing. They kind of told us, you know, this is what we've done. The big thing is sustainability. How do you get reimbursed? Who pays you?

Is it child protective services, child welfare? Is it Medicare? You know, who pays? How do you make it that this is sustainable? And they still do great work at that time. Not family centered at all, very much like what I was thinking I thought babies were better without their parents. Let's put them in foster care. We know they're safe. That's that's what we're going to do. Which is a whole nother podcast. going to do. Which is a whole other podcast. Exactly. So we went back to Arizona. And at the time, the opioid crisis is in

high, high demand. And our governor do see had a substance abuse task force and Googling all of a sudden I'm like, who was on that task force? And one of the doctors that trained me was on it. And I called Glenn water cutting and I'm like, who is on that task force? And one of the doctors that trained me was on it. And I called Glenn Watercottie and I'm like, what are you? What is that? What are you guys doing this? And he's like, this is what you want to do. You need to come talk to us.

And so Kelly and I went and we presented. They're like, what's your name? We're like, our name we knew, but we didn't know what Hushabye's name was yet. Where do you want to do it? We don't know. Lily's Place got a room. We're Lock Your Baby in Closets with Love Organization. Exactly.

We needed a building and Lily's Place got a free building. So we're like, we need a free building. That's what we need you to give us. And at the very end of that conversation with after our presentation of a lot of government officials and different community members, their last question was, is what about the moms? And I said,

You mean those addicted women that had these children? I said, I go, we take care of babies. We don't really know, I take care of the moms. So that we don't know. And they're like, okay, thanks. And when we left, when you're in one of those meetings at the governor's office, nobody's supposed to reach out to you.

And I left with four business cards in my pocket saying, reach out to me, reach out to me, reach out. You mean under the table slip. Yep, they're like. Love what you're talking about here. We need to talk. Governor may not like you, but we love you. Yeah. Got it.

And it took probably about nine months. We're trying to figure out what we're gonna do. Are you still working in the normal hospital this whole time? Yep, yep. Okay, got it. Ended up the, one of the developmental infant toddler mental health association asked me to come speak at a conference as the subject matter expert for babies that were born substance exposed.

I'm like, I'm not really an expert, but sure, I'll come and talk. I was anything for hush by at that time. And so I go and- You do realize I'm sitting in a closet with a baby. That's some total of my expertness. But I will come and talk. That I'm happy to talk to you about it. Well, there was a psychiatrist

and a psychologist in the audience. And they said, well, what do you think about adverse childhood experiences? And I'm like, don't know what those are. What are you talking about? And ACE't know what those are what are you talking about and aces is what they are and they said we we need to know what your thoughts are on that and I said I'm I don't know what those are and so I go home and I google it they tell me that I need to read the book the deepest well I'm like okay go

home and I google and there's a 15 minute podcast if anybody or TED talk. Just Google Dr. Nadine Burke Harris. She talks 15 minutes about trauma and trauma of children from the ages of zero to 18. If you have four bad things that happen to you between those ages, you're set up for chronic illness lifelong forever. Doesn't happen to everybody, but it's a really high percentage, right? Our babies that are born substance exposed have two to three ACEs. And if I take a baby away from their parents, there's four. Wow, that is so interesting. So I went, whoa. What are the two to three for the babies? Catch me up.

Substance use, usually poverty, not having food on the table, trauma, any other. And then you take them away from the parent and you have crossed the threshold Yeah, that is fast. So I mean many I mean many of my babies are born with four aces homeless You know that they're born with it and it's fascinating. So that's when you said Well, if we're really gonna do a good job. We've got to include them immediately like that day I went home, watched the TED Talk, started this study is from 1998. This is 2016. How from 1998 to 2016 does a nurse,

that now I'm a nurse practitioner, I am, I'm a good practitioner. Like I do my education, I stay up on things. Still nurses to date and physicians don't know about adverse childhood experiences. If we knew about them, we should be doing better. And now I know it would trade, it would change the standard of treatment. Yep. And that's where Hushabayas because we need to get the entire family well, so that this baby has the best chance at the best outcomes later on. So when we see generational,

like I had I had one, well, we had many families, you know, in the tiny neighborhood community that I grew up in. But I can remember my dad going, No, you're not dating him. That's not gonna say his last name. But that is Oh, no, no, no, no. And it's that, you know, generational drop generational cycle of addiction. And it's like poverty and everything else over and over and over and if we would deal with what the issues are right now get the moms and dads well keep families together safely we just stop that generational a recent guest used a great metaphor generational. A recent guest used a great metaphor. We can sit downriver and pull babies out of the water all day long, but

eventually need to go upstream and find out why on the water first place. Totally. So it's totally. So you still have nothing at this point. You've been to West Virginia. Now you've read a book. Now you have an awakening. The governor in Phoenix, or governor of Arizona, but you got four business cards. So what happens? So we end up getting a fiscal sponsor, which still to this day, do I really know what that was? It was it was it's an organization that gives you credit gives you street cred like, like you have

a good idea. This is something and they start introducing me to different people. And okay, learn about how to put a budget together. Go to this. How do you write a grant? How do you let's introduce you to these different people and learned a lot doing that. My kids knew what I was trying to do. I taught him about aces. They were obviously, you know, very engaged and my son is, he must have been a sophomore in high school.

And he goes, Mom, I can't remember remember her name Jeanette. I think is her name Her dad wants to talk with you and I was like, okay What he's in his marketing class and they're talking about marketing and goes yeah My mom's doing what I wanted to do and Jeanette's dad. I think maybe grandpa owned a methadone clinic. Really? And so my son talked about what I was doing. His classmate heard about what I was doing, went home, talked to their family, asked if

I would come and talk to the pregnant moms at the clinic. And I'm like, yeah, I can come talk to pregnant moms. I don't know what I really am gonna tell them, but sure, I'll talk to them. And I would go one hour once a month and talk with them. And just tell them that Department of Child Safety is gonna be involved. You have to tell the truth, the whole truth,

and nothing about the truth. Tell them you want a parent. Tell them you need help. Have them help you so that you can help your baby. What we found, first 12 babies or 12 babies born, nine of them went home with their parents. One hour once a month, me talking to them, telling them what to do. I gave them hope. once a month, me talking to them, telling them what to do. I gave them hope. I gave them different resources connected to the community partners that I had learned of and was just kind of like a really good case manager, but also that biggest cheerleader of going, you can do it and I believe in you. And you are the best person for your baby. And when you do that, you see them get well. For that first set of data, I didn't keep anybody's name literally when I started realizing they

were taking their babies home because it's completely inverted. If you look at usually, maybe one in four babies go home with their parents, the other three go to foster care. That's usually what we used to see. And I was like, oh my gosh. So it started writing down. I'm like purple lipstick went home, green hair, green hair, bright, bright blue eyes. I didn't even know their names because I was, I didn't, they made me uncomfortable still. I'm dealing with people that struggle with substance use and at this time it was heroin so they were shooting up and I'm like I didn't get substance use. Well, I'm at the clinic and they're explaining everything to me. Then I'm looking at the science of dopamine in the brain and I'm like

so they really are not bad people. You know this, they're sick people. There know, this, they're sick people. There's yes, they just need help. They are the lowest of the low that they possibly. More than likely came up just like their babies will if there's not some intervention. Probably came. Not all, but many, many, many. This is generational, but you don't have a building.

You still have nothing. Nothing. You're just talking to people. Yep. So what happens? Yeah, so I meet my board president, you know, meet him, he was starting. He was the CEO of a homeless hospital circle the city in Phoenix, it was one of the first of its kind in the nation. And they connected me, my fiscal sponsor connected me with him. And he just kind of mentored me. I have a napkin of him explaining a budget to me. But I keep I'm like, Brandon, remember this, because I didn't even know what I was talking about. And I acted like in that conversation, I acted

like I understood what he was saying. But I'm like, I have no clue what you're saying, dude. I'm just lucky I can keep a baby alive. But but he connected me with the Bob and Renee Parsons Foundation. You speak Go Daddy. No kidding. And at that time, you have to have your 501 C3 for three years for funders to really listen to you. I hadn't had my 501 C3 for three years. And Brandon begged their executive director, maybe CEO, Laura Mitchell to talk with me.

And it was supposed to be an hour and I was two and a half hours later. He had to leave. He's like, okay I'm gonna let you guys keep talking but she's kept asking question asking question and You know, we left the meeting and I'm like I understand that you can't even look at me for funding because I'm not three years old and she ended up calling me back probably two weeks later and said, I want you to submit a proposal. And Laura does not have you submit a proposal unless Laura thinks it's going to be approved. And so she took it to the Parsons and initially they said no. And about six, it was probably six months later and I wasn't surprised that they said no. And about six, it was probably six months later, and I wasn't surprised that

they said no. I'm like, I would say no, too. I'm asking for a lot of money to get a building. And I mean, and I'm a nurse, not a business person. Yes, I have Brandon backing me and I have some other board members that are really impressive. But that's a big, big give. And one day I'm on my couch and Laura Mitchell calls and she goes, Bob and Renee wanna give you almost a million dollars to open up push my, and I did the ugly cry. Like my husband was like, I have no idea what's going on, but he pulled out his phone and videoed me. And I was just like, what? Oh my gosh.

I'm like, and I told her, I'm like, okay, I know. And I did a snort and everything. And I'm like, I know this isn't professional. I'm so sorry. And she was like, no, this is the best type of, you know, feedback that you can ever give. And then the state of Arizona matched that gift with the opioid settlement money.

And then we just said, okay, we opened our doors November 2020, and we've now served almost over 800 babies. So tell me what you opened in November 2012. What'd you convert? Yes, we, well, A massive closet. A massive closet, yeah.

I think it was a check cashing place prior to us. Are you kidding me? That's hilarious. We gutted it and made it completely. It's 12 beds, 12 individual nursery rooms, like about this size. 10 by 10. And you have, yeah, and you have, this size. 10 by 10. And you have, yeah.

12 by 12. Yeah, it's probably 10 by 10. Probably is what we have. You have a twin bed in there for mom and dad, believe me. Both of them sleep in there just fine. We have a bassinet, a rocking chair, a changing table. Quiet, dark environment. We make it dark, dark, dark.

Dim, dim, dim lights. You very rarely turn the overhead lights on. We just have little sconces on the side. And we hired people that this is their population. They want to... You mean nurses? Yeah, nurses and patient care assistants. We have a grant through the governor's office of for AmeriCorps. So like Peace Corps but we have AmeriCorps members that come cuddle and we have over 150 volunteers that hold babies around the clock Seven and there's 12 beds 12 beds. So I

Can't imagine well first of all does insurance reimburse for any of the now they do. But they didn't. So that first that first let's we're going year three and I'm finally getting reimbursed. I just you just got my seventh year. So I guess getting reimbursed. I'm trying to now my business funds. He activated so I Can't imagine that a hospital Will suspend you their children, correct? You're the people that you can't do this and they're probably bound to determine to prove that you can't even though you are

So, how are you getting babies? Mostly So how are you getting babies? Mostly, yeah. Initially it was moms that we were working with prenatally, so we met them. They found out they were pregnant at the methadone clinic or in jail. They heard about Hushabye. They got connected with us and we started working with them. Well, do they demand, give me my baby out of the hospital

and they bring him to you? Is that how it works? They beg, beg, beg, And sometimes they listen and we'll let them transfer their baby. For you and I, if we had a baby that was born substance exposed, we would say, Oh, my baby transferred to Hushabye and our baby would be transferred to Hushabye. For my families, they got to flip a coin. Let's hope that all of the right people are on at that hospital today at the right time that will say yes,

transfer baby. So last year I had 147 babies that could have transferred to us that we had worked with their parents prenatally that were denied transfer. Because the hospital wanted to keep them because they want the insurance money or because they don't want to support you or both. Don't know. As she shakes her head back and forth and has a very slick smile. But the fact is, they don't.

Yeah. We'll be right back. It started with a backpack at the 1996 Centennial Olympic Games. A backpack that contained a bomb. While the authorities focused on the wrong suspect, a serial bomber planned his next attacks. Two abortion clinics and a lesbian bar. But this isn't his story.

It's a human story. One that I've become entangled with. I saw as soon as I turned the corner, basically someone bleeding out. The victims of these brutal attacks were left to pick up the pieces, forced to explore the gray areas between right and wrong, life and death. Their once ordinary lives, and mine, changed forever. It kind of gave me a feeling of pending doom And all the while our country found itself facing down a long and ugly reckoning with a growing threat

far right homegrown religious terrorism Listen to flashpoint on the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, Bowen, the Olympics are underway. It's useless to talk about it as a thing that's happening in the future when it's happening in the present. It's happening now. And what's happening now is our podcast, Two Guys, Five Rings, is a phenomenon. And while real medals are being handed out in Paris, we're giving out our fake medals here. Two guys, five rings. Matt Bowen and the Olympics. Who are we watching in this Olympic Games? I mean, I'm watching Simone Biles. I'm watching her go higher and higher and higher with every bounce. Sha'Carri's about to run faster than you

or I or anyone has ever seen. I'm ready for the girls and the boys and everybody under the Seine River. Under the Seine, over the Seine, within the waters of the Seine, all of them. Follow the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast platform and watch and listen to every moment of the 2024 Paris Olympic Games now

through August 11th on NBC and Peacock and for the first time ever on the iHeartRadio app. Hey guys, I'm Adria Gunning, host of There and Gone South Street. In this series, we follow the case of Richard Patrón and Daniel Imbo, two people who went missing in Philadelphia nearly two decades ago and have never been found. Unlike most cases, there is not a single piece of physical evidence connected to this crime. But the FBI knows there was foul play. I'm excited to share that you can now get access to all new episodes of There and Gone South Street, 100% ad free and one week early with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription,

available exclusively on Apple podcasts. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today. If a family that has a baby that's born substance exposed in Arizona. Department of Child Safety is involved in every case. So if they start doing a ruckus at the hospital, we can say anything to DCS and DCS is going to believe us and not the parents. And so they get scared. Yeah. And so the parents get scared. And they're like, you know, I just need to not rock the boat. Yep, I'm rocking the boat, you know what? I just need the boat. Yep I'm rocking the boat then I'm I can't rock the boat the old bureaucracy. Yeah. All right. Yeah, so

You've how many babies did you treat the first year? The first year I think has a hundred and ninety nine Okay, I think it was one night. So I'm doing math. Yeah. Okay. What is the average day of a baby in the normal bright lights, BP place, hospital thing with the medicine and all that? The last date I've just looked this up because I'm like the numbers have got to have changed, but it's 21 days is what they're saying. I think that's a very low estimate for the day.

Yes. You think it's higher. We'll go with 21. What is the average number that I stay with you? Nine. And that's for sure the right number. So that's um, you, the first year you almost had every bed full. No.

Well, if nine days times 99 you had on average eight of 12 beds full most times. Yeah. Uh, no, I gotta tell you how I figured the math so nine nine um and I have 12 beds that I can have have 12 babies 365 days a year right so you divide that by a nine and the average length of stay of nine days. Right. Divided by. I'm doing it with you. Yeah. It's I can if I was completely full, I could have like 500 babies a year. 500. Okay, I got it. I could have about 500. Okay. So the point is, Okay, so the point is, on a nine day average, you can handle 500 babies. On a 21 day average, a hospital can only handle about 200, 175. And if they needed the, so when the hospitals are busy, we get the babies, no problem.

The hospitals are slow. We get the babies no problem You cannot tell me these decisions are not driven by the dollar Because of what you just said if the beds are full. Yes, let them go. Yes, the beds are empty No, we got out of the money. It's absolutely up. So again, we're talking about what's in the best interest of the child is not always primary. Well, many of my peers feel like that the hospital, we do good work in the hospital. It's not the nurses, it's the administration that makes a lot of these decisions. We do really good work, but there is a difference. And many feel that, well, we do the same thing

as you do. We're doing that same care model, but you're not because you do not have, even if they feel that they're doing the exact same thing for the babies, they do not have behavioral health services for the parents on site so that the parents can get well without having to leave the side of their baby. Well, the other thing is you told me that it's a nurse has two to four babies per shift. Let's call it an average of three.

You're telling me in your place, you have someone with that baby one to one the entire time they stay. Yes. So that baby is never not held, loved. Correct. calmed. Correct. Very rarely do we not have one to one. Very rarely. Okay. So the first year was did you say 199? Yes. 199. Okay. Then I think 2023.

2023. Last year, we had 265 I think. That is phenomenal. All right. So now we know you're caring for 265 children born with an opioid addiction. Am I saying that right? Dependence. Dependenceendence. Sorry. Dependence. You're good. But more importantly is that twin bed that's in that room? And who's occupying it? So that's, that's it. Tell us. Yeah, the parents if we can get them well. It's it's it's it's a game changer for the parents. It's a game changer.

It's a game changer for the baby. And it's a game changer for the entire community. Because our jails and our prisons are filled with people that are struggling with substance use. Can I tell you some demographics from a previous? Sure, guest that plays right into this? 60% of girls who are trafficked in the today languish in the foster care system. 60% of the people who have been incarcerated more than three times came from the foster

care system. It is estimated that 70% of the people who have chronic dependence to drugs came from the foster care system. It's also estimated that there are 400,000 kids in the foster care system annually. So let's compound that and think about what we're turning out into society. And that endemic problem we have. So if these beds and these hospitals that are filled with many children who are born with an opioid dependency, and I think your numbers say that only one in four go home with their parents, three in four go to the foster care system. And then

we put together what I just told you about the foster care system, which are only demographics I learned from another guest, but the real demographics. That means that 75% of the foster care systems problem starts in the neonatal intensive care unit. Now let's just fathom that for a minute. You're saying all these stats and I'm like, okay, don't cry because that's exactly I mean, that just paints the entire picture. But is it that for just a second, you take it. So if we could connect these babies to their children at a higher rate,

we reduce the foster care system and thus reduce homelessness, dependency, trafficking, all of it. Yep. And I will tell you that we partner really well with our Department of Child Safety because what we've done, having the parents with us and working with us prenatally and postpartum,

that entire continuum of care, 76% of our babies are going home with their parents safely. Versus 25% from the normal. For a second, let's forget that the children are not spending their first 21 days on earth in a bright hospital with beeping lights with a flu and headache that's 100 times worse than normal, which is tragic than an infant's life is like that. You're reducing that 21 days of trauma to nine.

Correct. Okay. That's huge. And if that was it, if that was the story, we can wrap it up. It's beautiful. High five. Safe trip back to Phoenix. I love what you're doing.

Yeah. To me, that is beautiful, but it is not really the whole story. It's not even the biggest part of the story. The biggest part of the story is that same 21 days turns into a 25% go home with their children, but 75% up in foster care. You're not only reducing by two thirds the amount of time this poor infant's dealing with this trauma their first day's on earth, but you're sending 75% home with their parents. Safely.

Safely. And helping their parents. Safely. Safely. And helping their parents get right. Correct. And reducing the dependence on our failed foster care system by 75%. Correct. And our Department of Child Safety now sees our numbers and our stats and they partner with us. We have, took me three years, but I have a DCS liaison.

So say every one of our families is connected with DCS, which they should be. All of our families need to, well, maybe not all should, because many are on that medication and their babies are born substance exposed. So should DCS be engaged with them? No, but I would rather be safe than sorry. So DCS gets engaged with them. What we've been able to do is say DCS is not making a good choice. Like they're going to send baby home and we know that mom and dad. It's not ready.

They're not ready. Or they're making the wrong choice. It's like there there is a grandma and grandpa that are stepping up mom, we can have mom go to Sally's place or Maggie's place. That's that's what we can do. We have this whole plan. And you're not you're not listening. And we can go to our Alicia Franklin and and I can call her and be like, can you look at the case? Because they're not making the right choice. And we have just, I believe we got them in middle of January.

And in March, we had three families that we changed the way that it was supposed to be to the right way and kept babies together with their families. And it was was the DCS worker just didn't have enough time to do the whole investigation. Yeah, let's not villainize those people. I mean, they're dealing with all kinds of difficulties. Yeah, they do great work, but boy is that hard. We'll be right back.

We'll be right back. It started with a backpack at the 1996 Centennial Olympic Games. A backpack that contained a bomb. While the authorities focused on the wrong suspect, a serial bomber planned his next attacks. Two abortion clinics and a lesbian bar. But this isn't his story. It's a human story. One that I've become entangled with. I saw as soon as I turned the corner, basically someone bleeding out. The victims of these brutal attacks were left to pick up the pieces, forced to explore the

gray areas between right and wrong, life and death. Their once ordinary lives and mine change forever. It kind of gave me a feeling of pending doom. And all the while, our country found itself facing down a long and ugly reckoning with a growing threat. Far right, homegrown, religious terrorism. Listen to Flashpoint on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Two Guys, Five Rings is a phenomenon. And while real medals are being handed out in Paris, we're giving out our fake medals here. Two Guys, Five Rings, Matt Bowen, and the Olympics.

Who are we watching in this Olympic Games? I mean, I'm watching Simone Biles. I'm watching her go higher and higher and higher with every bounce. Sha'Carri's about to run faster than you or I or anyone has ever seen. I'm ready for the girls and the boys and everybody under the Seine River. Under the Seine, over the Seine, within the waters of the Seine, all of them.

Follow the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast platform and watch and listen to every moment of the 2024 Paris Olympic Games now through August 11th on NBC and Peacock and for the first time ever on the iHeartRadio app. Hey guys, I'm Andrea Gunning, host of There and Gone South Street. In this series, we follow the case of Richard Patrone and Daniel Imbo, two people who went missing in Philadelphia

nearly two decades ago and have never been found Unlike most cases there is not a single piece of physical evidence connected to this crime But the FBI knows there was foul play I'm excited to share that you can now get access to all new episodes there and gone South Street 100% ad free and one week early with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple podcasts. So don't wait, head to Apple podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today. So I'm stuck on this 21 verse 9 day thing.

Yes. And we've played with all these numbers about 199 and 500 and beds and everything. And I did a really poor job of getting to it. But like I said, the business part of it gets to me. I also got to believe 21 days in a intensive care neonatal unit in a hospital, first nine days at Hushabye. Even though your standard of care includes the parents. Even for all of that care, I got to believe there's a significant difference in the cost

of I mean, there's a pragmatic thing here happening too, right? Yeah, it's so when you're looking at bed days, one night stay in in a neonatal intensive care unit in research says it's 2400 to $3,500 a night. So let's just call it three grand. I'm right at $60 a night. So let's just do 24 to 30 call it three grand. I'm right at $60,000. Yes. For a hospital. Correct. That the insurance is paying. Correct. That we're paying because they're Medicaid. That our tax dollars are paid. Exactly. 60 grand for 21 days.

Yes. What do you cost for your non $1,000. So $9,000 a stay. 98% of my families are our tax dollars we're paying for them. Holy smokes. We've seen if you don't care about the social aspect of this. This also has the ability to significantly reduce the amount of money being spent on this problem. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a no brainer. You want to go, how do you not do the math and go, this is what we should do. So how do we get the push down from the community, the government or whatever to the people that make the choices to go this is what

we're doing. I mean even if the governor didn't slip you his business card he should have jumped around at these numbers. Oh they do. Yeah we had the governor, the governor's office, legislators, they see the numbers. They do get it. Yeah, they do get it. But it's a fine line of what they can tell hospitals and providers. I don't really quite understand because I'm like, huh, you really can't just tell them to do it. It's kind of dead in the first reader. How do you not get it? I don't really quite understand because I'm like, huh, you really can't just tell them to.

It's kind of dead in the first reader. How do you not get it? And I'll tell you, and I know you don't know these numbers, but would really be interested in is that's 21 in nine days of a baby's life. All right. You're already fifty four thousand dollars on average to the good after three weeks. I wonder what the cost of the taxpayer is that the kids that end up in foster care because the parents aren't treated versus the kids that end up with their families. Yeah, I bet you could extend this number out and ends up and then how many and in jail end up in jail all of the kids and then it just keeps playing this thinking yeah steamrolling quickly if you multiply at times the numbers of these children that are in beds and all

of the cities and municipalities cross-country you're in the billions yes it's crazy we we had our our Medicaid as our access is what we call them. They came to visit and I shared how many millions we had saved them already. Their CFO was with and he was like, it's like, oh, I got his attention now, yay. That's what, you know, cause it was like, oh my goodness.

I mean, I think you should be getting some kind of percentage thing back. I mean, somebody ought to be. Yeah, they do. They really do support us. I mean, somebody ought to be. Yeah, they do. They really they really do support us. I mean, sustainability for us right now. We're at about 60 percent that we raise funds for and 40 percent that we're getting reimbursed for.

So, you know, it's very much started. Yeah, absolutely. It was zero. So, I mean, it's it we're getting there, but it's it's definitely not our business model isn't to the point that we go, Oh, yes, absolutely. This works. Where we're at right at the moment. You're only three and a half years old. Yes. That's for sure. Charles Barkley. You know, Charles Barkley. Yes, I do.

Phoenix. Exactly. Yeah. So when his daughter was 15, about to turn 16, Charles was on TNT doing his stuff. And Shaq was joking about the guys that were going to start coming around and trying to date him. And Charles and Charles Barkley asked said, No problem. I got it. They said, Really? What do you mean? What do you got it, Chuck? He said, Yeah. he said that first young man that comes to date my daughter,

I'm gonna invite him into the home. And then when he comes into my living room, I'm gonna have him sit on my couch and I'm gonna walk over to him. I'm gonna hit him right in his mouth and knock teeth out. And Chuck's like, well, how's that gonna do anything? He said, oh, after that word will get around. I think I think with the amazing success you've had for only three and a half years,

you just got to keep telling the story and you get to keep showing what you're doing for families and for children and for changing the trajectory of where people end up and the financial aspect to it and everything else. And I just got to believe, although the wheels of this kind of world turns slowly, we're to get around. Yeah, I do too. I do too. It's crazy. But it's what needs to be done. So so

what next? You're you're changing lives, you're changing babies lives, you're changing families live, you're changing the arc of an entire group of children's prospects? Yeah. So what, add more beds? What are you gonna do next? What are we doing? We need, we still need to get all the hospitals on board. We need it to be that the gold standard of care

is when a mom finds out she's pregnant and she struggles with substance use, number one, she's not stigmatized and not thought like she's the worst person in the world so that she will get prenatal care so that she would get connected with Hushabye. But then we need it that every baby that's born that is well, that is just going through the withdrawal process for it to just be a no-brainer that this is a gold standard of care. with Hushabye transformed to Hushabye send us we should have our beds full 24-7 and

Then you have the staff for it. We do and the volunteers we do we but we are not full our average daily census is six Why isn't this in every city in the country? Because it's never been done before That's why and it's you know, you sit there and go how long did it take to have like stroke rehab? How long did it take to have surgery centers that only do knee replacements? I don't know how long that took. I wish I did so that I could go. Okay. Yeah, this will be taken You know brought to Memphis, that it will be brought to all over the country

because everyone's struggling. Does it just need to be published in like the American Journal of Medicine or whatever the doctor type people do? So we just, we- I don't even know what that means. I just said something completely out of my rear. And I don't even know what that means except-

But it does. I've like heard it on the news before, so it sounded intelligent. No, but it does. And we need to get it published. The big thing up until this point is having the bandwidth to be able to like collect all the data. We collect data that we need for our grants to make sure that we are able to support what we say that we're going to do. But it takes money to be able to do that. We now have one of the hospitals that totally believes on our mission that sharing their data.

Hallelujah. Good for that. What is that hospitals name? Dignity Health. That's St. Joseph's. Good for Dignity Health at St. Joseph's in Phoenix. In Phoenix. Good for you, whoever's administrating that place. Good for you. They're Yeah, so they So they're, yes. Whoever's administrating that place, good for you. Yeah, so they're sharing their data. We're gonna compare it so that we can actually publish

and go, there's a better way. Isn't that what you're supposed to do? It's supposed to be about how do we improve care? Yes. For not only the baby, the whole family. For all of us. And yeah, we should be giving for sure a baby, the very best care. How proud are your sons of you?

They're proud of me. They are. When you hear this, this is from one of your volunteers. I truly felt like I was making a difference for Huster by Baby, I cuddled today. The nurse on staff told me, this is a volunteer. The nurse on staff told me that he had not slept all morning and was in a lot of pain.

I closed my eyes and took three deep breaths and hoped my centering breaths would help him feel the peace I was working to create. I swaddled him tightly, held him close, and soon he was sleeping quietly and his breathing regulated. We rocked, he slept together in the dark room for three very peaceful hours. That sweet baby will never know how he helped me feel strong, calm and needed. Yeah, that's my yeah. Elizabeth G. No, that's so sweet. It is it's one of those that with with

hush by it does heal. Everyone like you can be having a bad day and you go in and you go, okay, there are other people that have really, really bad days, but the babies do heal us. And sometimes, I mean, I'll be in a meeting and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I just need some baby time and go up there. And I'm like, okay, let's just you regulate in the room, you literally walk into Hachibaya and it is just a different environment. Tell me a story of a family from that first year who's reached back out to you and thanked you not only for helping their baby, but you cared for their family. I had a mom and dad that grandma actually heard about us.

She was out of state. I don't know how she heard about us, but she heard about us and said that her Son and his baby mama were gonna deliver any day now. They're homeless They're struggling with substance use. She has this was her fourth baby. All of the other babies were out of home And maybe in foster care. Yeah in foster care going down the dreaded thing we just talked about. Yep. And somehow we did this this baby was born at St. Joe's and St. Joseph's sent baby to us. It was one of our very first babies. And he actually was with us the longest. I mean, at that time,

I think he was with us for 27 days. But yeah, he had a really hard time. But mom and dad came and they were homeless. So they it was hot. It was during the summer. Literally the first three days I was like, Oh, my goodness, this is gonna be a long time with them. I remember and I'm not proud of it of me sailing that because they were more or less using us as a hotel and food. And you know, staying cool.

Their little one had a really, really hard time. And they really wouldn't look at him for the first three days. Like they just called shame. Yeah, they just went and slept. Yes, it totally was. So they middle of the night. They hear him crying. And the nurses get up because they hadn't been attending to him. And all of a sudden he stopped crying. And they're like, I don't know how he how he stopped crying. But he stopped. And mom's in there, she's changing his diaper,

she looks up, she's like, Yeah, I've got him. They're like, Do you need help? She's like, Nope, I'm good. And that next day, the nurse was like, Can you tell that mom to keep coming back because we had not been able to wean him on his medication at all. He was a completely different baby when his mom had him in his house. The power of his mom. Totally. And that next day I'm talking with her and I'm like, I need you to do what you didn't do yesterday. And she's like, what? And I'm like, because he had a really good day with you,

and I need you to not do what you didn't do and she kind of looks at me and I go you know what I'm talking about and What I was saying was please don't use whatever medications whatever drugs he you used to use please don't take what you didn't because you were functioning and you were parenting and you were doing a good job and he needs you and 27 days later The day before he's ready to be discharged, we knew he was going to foster care because grandma's out of state. It's really hard to get a baby out of state to keep them in the family. Just bureaucracy. Mom and dad were ready for treatment. And we knew he was going foster care. And so it was a Thursday afternoon, and

mom is said, Can we meet the foster mom? I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I would never have that happen. I can't even imagine that she's gonna say yes. But I said, I'll ask her. I don't think she's gonna to say yes. And so the foster mom called and we had said she needed to come because he was a hard baby still at 27 days. I'm like, we need to teach you the tips and tricks. So we need you to come in tonight and then tomorrow you can take them home.

And she I talked with her she goes no, no, I thought I'd just ask. I totally understand, it's not a big, it is kind of a big deal, but not a big deal. She calls back two hours later and she goes, I'll come and meet them, are they there? I'm like, yep, they're there. So we're tiny, she ends up taking baby out into this little family area

and foster moms there, mom and dad and grandma are there. Mom and dad are teaching foster mom how to care for their son. They're like, this is what he likes when he does this, what he likes. It's like babysitter. And they're like, got to have that bond and know where their baby was going. The next day, this is how Hushabye is different than everybody else. The next day, we had worked with our community partners to get dad and mom into the same treatment center. One's going to the guys, one's going to the girls, but we had it planned that we were going to go. Mom would only go if she knew

dad got in. She goes, I'm fine. I will be good. He will not if he won't go. So we got transportation. You have to use case management to get transportation through insurance to the treatment center. Talk to the treatment center. They call us and like, dad's here. He's done his intake. He's in. So we tell mom, we're like, okay, here he is, we're ready to roll. And she's like, okay, spent the whole morning with the foster mom at noon, she has her intake up at the place. We get in, get transportation again, we put baby in car seat in the foster mom's car, seat in the foster mom's car.

But mom in the Uber going to treatment, and the foster mom goes over to mom in the Uber and she's like, get out. And we're all crying because at this time, he was our longest baby. And it was like they were taking our baby to like, but we were so proud of them because seeing them not well to now they're going to treatment and they're doing so well and engaged and they had hope And the foster mom's like get out and we're like And Mom gets out and the foster mom just like just embraces her and she goes go get well for your baby

I have your son and I will take care of him until you're well. And then everybody's following. We're like, okay, this never happens. When people foster, they foster. They're not supposed to foster to adopt. Some are fostering to adopt. Sometimes foster needs to leads to adoption and it happens. But this was she was fostering she was supporting those parents. 19 months later. They're working full time they get reunified that foster mom is their best babysitter now. You're kidding. They now have had another baby planned pregnancy. Mom was on methadone so they come to us. Completely different story.

Mom and dad well, they're mentoring all the other parents and they're going, this is how you do it. Yes, their baby's going through withdrawal, but their little one was only there. Their second one was with us for eight days and they did great. Parents are healthy. They're engaged. They knew how to care for her. They knew the ropes. I mean, they were telling everybody what to do. They send me pictures all the time. And that never happens without us.

No, ever. There's been an oopsie here and there. But what did they do when there was an oopsie? Call us. Told us we called DCS. We're like, kids are safe. This is a plan. Now the foster mom's going to be more engaged. We're going to be one big happy family for a get for a little bit. But what you find is people that have substance use disorder, AKA addiction to a substance, they don't have great coping skills. And if you haven't dealt with the mental health, your mental health, we can give you a medication, you can do it for a certain amount of time, but you lose your job, you get in a fight,

something happens. If you don't have good coping skills, you do the one thing that's an oopsie. Just like you and I when we say we're not going to have our peanut M&Ms. You have that oopsie where you fall off and then you pick yourself back up and hushabies that place that will pick them back up. They show up and it's like, okay, of course, the very first thing is baby safe. That is what we care about. But after that, it's like, all right, it was an oopsie.

But part of the baby being safe is having its family. Absolutely. That's a long way from putting a kid in a closet. Yeah. Last thing I want to know, I want to know how you feel when you hear this. In 2023, you guys served 724 patients and 268 infants, 90 day follow-up, 80% decrease in substance use, 70% increase in patient safety, 75% increase in parent knowledge, client satisfaction.

99% would recommend the program to someone they care about. 99% felt safe. Since opening in 2020, 1,656 parents and 695 infants have been served by you. It's a lot of digits. I think of like fingers and toes when you when you think of all those babies. That's a lot of kindergarten. You've been open three and a half years. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think, you know, I go the impact is is amazing. But I also look at it because I'm not that overachiever of going there's so many more that need us. We're working with 153 pregnant women right now. 153. Last year at this time we were at 65. So yeah, we're doing really good at partnering but the fentanyl crisis is not going anywhere.

It's still in full force and our data speaks for itself and every baby deserves the very best chance and Hushabites that. So someday it will everybody will be like they get it. I have a senior inpatient clinical manager that she calls us the Hushabye formula, so like baby formula. But it's the Hushabye formula. So someday you'll see us as being in that medical journal as the Hushabye formula. Because really, it is what we're doing is different. Terry, you can't do that. Exactly. Somebody listened to us wants to support

you hear about you read about you. Or even says we got to have that in my town. How do they find you? Yeah, hushabynursery.org is www hushabynursery.org. Otherwise, you could call or text 480-628-7500. But on our website, if you just go to the info page, you can contact us. We're usually within a couple hours, you'll get somebody to respond. So everybody says I want this in Memphis, Little Rock. Would you come spend a couple days with us

and just talk through it with us? I think we'd have to, I mean, we'd do a lot of meetings talking through it, trying to figure out what it looks like, what's different state to state. People could come to you too and watch and see. Yeah, absolutely. And the biggest thing is it's every state is so different bureaucracy-wise that you don't understand like those

little niches of, okay, what is this going to be under? When Hushabye got going, I had to get the City of Phoenix Health Department and our Medicaid all in the same room to go, we agree that this needs to be something, but what are we calling it? What is it going to be licensed as? How we're licensed as for babies, we're licensed as an adult detox. Of course you are. Why would you be? Who cares? Yeah. Who cares what they call it, right? But it's like how that's how you have to build your building as an adult detox for babies Whatever so it's so it's one of those the point is could we help you can do this and you can help Yeah, you got work with them. Whatever. Absolutely. Yeah, and

I'm certain if anybody in the Phoenix series listen, you would love to have any more volunteers and oh, yes Come to her. I would love them to come and see it. Because seeing it is is really understanding. Tara, you just you went to college to be a nurse. And you went to Phoenix and started your family and could you ever imagine this is where you'd be? Absolutely not. No, it's a good life.

So what was it? You're just a normal person that saw an area need and decided to fill it. That was it. That's what an army of normal folks is. That's exactly what I was gonna say. It's totally when I was connected with you. I was like, that's so it. Because you don't really know what you're going into. It's just, you see a need and it's the right thing to do.

And you're changing lives. Yeah. It has been an absolute honor to meet you. And your passion and your empathy just ooze through your words. And I can't wait for the world to hear the story through our literal medium here. And again, I just, I know you got a lot going on.

Thanks for coming to Memphis and spending this time with me. Thank you for the invitation. That's awesome. It's great. Thank you for the invitation. That's awesome. It's great. Thank you for what you do. And thank you for joining us this week. If Tara Sundum or other guests have inspired you in general or better yet, inspired you to take action by volunteering with Hushabod Nursery, donating to them, or starting something like it in your community,

or something else entirely. Please let me know. I'd love to hear about it. You can write me anytime at bill at normalfolks.us, and I promise you this, I'll respond. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with friends and on social, subscribe to the podcast, rate and review it.

Become a premium member at NormalFolks.us. Do any and all of these things that will help us grow. An army of normal folks. Thanks to our producer, Ironlight Labs. I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week. Back in 96, Atlanta was booming with excitement around hosting the Centennial Olympic Games. And then, a deranged zealot willing to kill for a cause lit a fuse that would change my life and so many others forever.

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