An Army of Normal Folks - Todd Komarnicki: Bringing Bonhoeffer To The Big Screen (Pt 2)

Episode Date: November 12, 2024

Todd was the producer of Elf, writer of Sully, and is the producer, writer, and director of the upcoming film Bonhoeffer: Pastor. Spy. Assassin. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a normal pastor who had the courage to stand up to Hitler, rescued Jews, joined a conspiracy to assassinate Hitler, and was ultimately hanged for his defiance. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney with An Army of Normal, folks. We continue now with part two of our conversation with Todd Comernicki, right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight.

I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Estet Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well.

I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. Whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So I need somebody with the guts to help me out. Somebody's got to wonder a question you're allowed to ask about. Elf, Sully, Bonhoeffer, you're allowed to ask about anything at all and now we have two coming. I love it. Thank you. Please do this because remember you're on a podcast right now live and the people across the country listening this podcast right now would love to hear who you are. So state your name and say your question. Okay so my name is Bob Nims

and I've known Billy for some time. I've never known you to be wrong, except for tonight when you said that Elf was one of the best Christmas movies. It actually is the best Christmas movie. So I've had the privilege of coaching your kids, but the question will be here for you, Todd, and that is, and I'll keep it light, so it's an easy question.

The answer is Germany. I'm just kidding. The question is, your favorite Christmas movie, and have you started the production of Elf 2 yet? Because it is the greatest Christmas movie. All right, I'll answer that in reverse. Great question. Favorite Christmas movie.

If that's not in production, your next project. I'm going to flip the order of that question. So Elf 2 will never be made. Boo! No, I'm actually happy now, 20 years later I'm happy. I wasn't happy when it got shot down. Will did not have a profoundly joyous experience as everyone else did. And he felt that it wasn't exactly his brand of humor, that it was too sort of family. And he wanted to do movies like Step Brothers and that's his right, that's what he wanted to pursue.

So he turned down a lot of dough to not put the tights back on. And at the time, of course, it was very frustrating. Elf Two, the script is fantastic, super funny. But he did put tights back on. He did that stupid ice skating movie later. Maybe it wasn't tights in general. Okay, just those tights. those tights. What's your favorite

Christmas movie? Hang on, hang on, hang on. We've got a lot of questions. That's okay. Where's anybody going? Pass out the donuts that I brought. Everybody gets a donut. Anyway, the script was beautiful, but in retrospect, I'm really happy. It's very rare that one thing, one movie exists as a franchise, so I'm thrilled. My favorite Christmas movie is my favorite movie of all time, and that's It's a Wonderful Life. Ah, I love it.

That's a great movie, great movie. Glad to have you with us. How about your story of faith? Oh, geez, this is a, that's a tearjerker. Can we circle back to that one, Mark? See if we can get through the lighter stuff. Anybody else have elf questions? Hold it, hold it. Why don't we end the questions with that one? I think in this particular episode, that would be a great way to end it.

Thank you, Mark. Thanks for the question, we'll get the answer. Yes, sir. Hey, my name is Dylan. way to end it. Thank you. Thanks for the question. We'll get the answer. Yes, sir. Hey, my name is Dylan. I've always been interested in the moral and maybe theological tension between being a follower of Christ and being involved in an assassination plot. I'm curious how did that affect your writing process and what can the church learn from

that today? That's a great question for everybody. We didn't cover that, but he was not part of the Valkyrie plot, but he was supportive of it. No, not Valkyrie. It was a totally separate assassination. It was a different plot. Totally different. But it was an assassination plot.

Yes. You're correct to conflate, because he was accused of being part of the Valkyrie plot, but that wasn't the plot. It was the Gersdorf plot. It's a different plot. But he was involved in a plot. It's a different plot, but it's a great question. 100%. So the question is, which I think is a great question,

is how do we juxtapose a man of faith and a pastor and all these wonderful things said, but the fact that he was also an assassin? Yeah, the thing that happened for Dietrich is that he had poured his heart and life into speaking and engaging and believing that what he was saying from the pulpit was going to change the world. And he believed it by the power of the God that was motivating him.

But things got worse and worse and worse, and people were getting arrested, and people he loved were getting arrested, and then he got arrested, and the world is closing, closing, closing. And at that point, he was shown footage, which is just teased in the trailer, but the first footage of the camps. They didn't know what was happening. They knew the Jewish people were being taken away, but they didn't know what was really happening. And the Abwehr was the FBI of Germany, and they didn't like Hitler. The Gestapo was his, they

were his strongmen, but the Abwehr was still in a way operating independently and the Abwehr went into the camps and secretly filmed what was happening. And so because of that Dietrich saw things that no one had seen in the history of the world and that was the thing that pushed him over. He wrestled with it. His best friend, Bethke, was a pacifist just like Dietrich had been his whole life. And they had that fundamental discussion,

which was, you know, will God forgive us if we do this? And Dietrich saying, will God forgive us if we don't? Phenomenal, great question. Yes, sir. My name is Charlie McCarty. I was wondering what the genesis behind this film was. Like what gave you the idea to put it together? I got a call from a producer saying that a Bonhoeffer movie was going to get

made. And they had a director and they had 10 million dollars and they were ready to go and they wanted a Hollywood writer polish. And would I read it and consider rewriting it? And I said- Hey, hang on. For everybody outside of the world, polish means there's a treatment, there's an idea, but they want a talented guy to make the script polished, cleaned up. Yeah, like a dialogue, make sure everybody sounds like they're, you know, interesting as opposed to stiff. And I read the script and it was a complete throwaway.

They had to start over. They'd made some colossal mistakes. They had made Bonhoeffer the second lead character, not the first of a movie called Bonhoeffer. And they had seven made-up characters, including the number one character who was completely made up. And I just thought, you know, you gotta tell these folks

that are gonna invest in this movie that they're gonna lose $10 million. Because no one's gonna come watch this movie. And plus, it's Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Let him tell the story. Have it be from his point of view. And make sure you have this, this, this, this, and this. I just said like five things off the top of my head.

And he said, would you come and tell the financiers what you said to me? And I said no. I said I'm standing in the rain on 14th Street, and I'm not going to, you heard what I said, you write it down and tell them. And then he said the two words, and I'm going to let the cat out of the bag, the two words that if any of you say to me in the future,

I will do whatever you ask. Now the words must be side by side. They cannot be broken up in a sentence or said in the morning and said in the evening. They have to be said right next to each other. And the words were sushi lunch. That's my kryptonite, apparently. He said, listen, come up to their apartment. I was waiting for God loves, Jesus saves, something profound, and you went with sushi

lunch? I can only speak the truth. Okay. But he said to me, come up to their apartment, they're lovely people, we'll have a sushi lunch. Dog, here's a whistle. And I went up and I met the Camporuses and they're the main financiers and lovely people and the sushi was fantastic. And I just told them what I'd said in the rain.

And they said, great, we'll start all over again, we'll start from scratch, you do it. And I said, no. And I said, I don't do independent movies. I only do studio movies. I'm busy for nine months. And to his credit, and the reason we're sitting here is the boldness of Mano Camporis. He used to be the CEO of American Standard. These are not movie people. These are just people that loved Bonhoeffer and wanted to do a movie. And Mano said, go home, talk to your wife, tell me how much you need and when you can start. That was his negotiation tactic. And I said, sushi lunch?

There you go. Yes, sir. Hi, my name is Sullivan. Hello. Hi, my name is Sullivan. And. Hi, my name is Sullivan. And yes, my nickname was Sully in school. I hated it. My question is, in the movie,

will it kind of be focused towards the Valkyrie plot as well as kind of Dietrich's wall in the abwehr or will that kind of be interrupted by his time at Tangle Prison? That's an informed question. Yeah, he's gone to school. There's no Tangle Prison. The movie takes place during the last week of his life and he's being driven towards his execution and what happened in that week is that the Allied had blown up so many bridges that they couldn't get the prisoners to where they were supposed to be killed.

And he got this extra week of life. And so in that week, I have him journaling about his entire life. And so you see, intermingled, the journey from little boy to the last moments of his life. That's really the focus. There is the assassination plot, but it's not the Valkyrie one, it's one that people have not heard of. So that's interesting, it's totally fresh.

It was the first suicide bomb coat ever invented, and it's quite compelling in the film. So that's what you'll get. Great question. Thank you. Hi, I'm Janie Fletcher, and I know y'all kind of talked about this, like application, sorry,

application about like how we, how to be more like Bonhoeffer in our everyday life. But there's a quote that came up in my mind from Frederick Douglass and well not necessarily a quote but a concept about how knowledge is different than experience. Is there anything that we can do in our everyday life to where we experience things that Bonhoeffer was teaching a little bit more? That's a great quote and absolutely this is what I was talking about earlier. These moments of Bonhoeffer Bravery are in front of us every single day.

This thing about money, this is the easiest one to apply. So we were talking at dinner about the scripture, love of money is the root of all evil. It's always misquoted as money is the root of all evil, which is not true. Money is lovely. People would like more of it. Everybody would like more of it. It's not money. Money is just money. Love of money is the root of all evil. And really what that means is, what is the first thing you check in with when you're going to make a decision? You cannot serve both God and money. You will love the one and hate the other. So a way to be Bonhoeffer brave going forward about money is when you're gonna make a decision. You cannot serve both God and money. You will love the one and hate the other. So a way to be Bonhoeffer brave going forward about money is when you're about to make a decision.

It could be about vacation. It could be about where your kid goes to school. It could be about a donation. It could be about where you shop for groceries. If the first thing you're checking in with is money and everything else gets pushed aside, you're serving money. If the first thing you check in with money is money,

put that aside and say, okay, Lord, I'm making this decision. I think it's a smart one, but I'm really just checking in with money. What do you want me to do? And He will surprise you with opportunities to do this service and learn bravery and man, there is nothing we hang on to tighter than our money. If you want to get in and like wrestle with some core issues, talk about what you do with your money. Thank you. You're welcome. We'll be right back. for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight.

I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out, like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also gonna have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha B., Roy Wood Jr., and Charlemagne the God.

We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Yes, sir. Hi, I'm DeAnsel El Cano. Are you able to talk a little bit more about how you're coming to the world of the internet? I'm a huge fan of the internet. I'm a huge fan of the internet. I'm a huge fan of the internet.

I'm a huge fan of the internet. I'm a huge fan of the internet. I'm a huge fan of the internet. I'm DeAnselo O'Connell. Are you able to talk a little bit more about how your career got started and the journey to where you are now? And is there anything else you wish to accomplish? Oh, anything else I wish to accomplish. I want more time with my family.

I've been away for like 18 months. It's too long. I would like to accomplish that. The start of my journey was, I'll do this as quickly as I can, the framework is, you know how a mother dog grabs a puppy by the back of its neck and that's why they have the loose skin and it doesn't hurt and they can put them where they're supposed to go. That's the story of my entire life. So I've gone in the wrong direction.

God has grabbed me by the back of the neck. Most of the time it's not hurt. A couple of times it hurt. And he's put me somewhere else. And it always came back to writing. And I was a college athlete, I was a baseball player. I had had the answer to Mark's question, we'll circle back to this, but I had had a disastrous experience at college.

I didn't really, I was at college but didn't really attend class very much. And I was at the end of my college career and I was a senior and I had nothing and I had terrible grades and my two sisters had gone to the same college, Wheaton College in Illinois. And they were done with college and I just asked, is there anything that I should do? Is there anybody to take a class from? And they said, whatever she's teaching, Dr. Jill Baumgartner. So I go meet Jill Baumgartner. She's five foot nothing and she's sitting behind her desk. You can barely see her above the desk. And she's got one class that semester, and it's advanced poetry. It's a 400-level class for senior writing majors.

And she said, if you take my class, I don't let people audit it. I will grade you according to how well you do against these other students. And I said, you can't hurt my grade point average. And she said, you're in. So the midterm was 10 poems, a haiku, a villanelle, a sonnet, free verse. And at the end of the next class, she handed everybody's papers back except mine.

And she said, Todd, I need you to stay after class. And I can still remember the feeling. I was sitting there and I thought, is it possible to write poetry so badly that you get in trouble? You know, we got the poetry police, they're waiting outside, they're gonna take them downtown. So she walks over to me and she places my papers down, a cover sheet on top with my

name and circled ironically in red was the letter A. And she said the phrase that changed my life and this was God just grabbing my neck and putting me over here. And she said, if you want to, you can be good at this. And I said, I want to. And that's the birth of a writer right there. Hey. Hello. My name is Jonesy Hart.

And I'm a producer with a small film company called Strong Women in Film. We have a small picture coming out next week here in Memphis called All I Got and Then Some. We did really well with the festival. What's the date? Plug it. It's at Mount Co. Cordova next Thursday night. We have the whole red carpet. You can meet the producer and the other stars of the show.

Congratulations. Congratulations, fantastic. Good for you. It's a big achievement. But I'm also the archivist for Nate Cutler. He was General Omar Bradley's photographer. And he then went on to become a prolific Hollywood reporter. Clearly his story is more than we can fund with our little independent, but his story as a Jewish man being at Ordruf and seeing what happened there should be told.

And I know you come from a bigger pile in Hollywood, but things have changed in Hollywood. How do we navigate this difference now of how movies are made? Like Angel is funding different projects that are based on what I would say is the good word. How do we navigate that system as it changes? Well, to my knowledge, I don't know much about angel funding. I know them as a distributor. They were not involved.

They bought our movie. So I don't know anything about that side. Maybe they are, but I don't know. Here's the thing. There's no one way to do it. You have to do it by faith. If this story breaks your heart and you are called to film, then prayerfully ask, how do I do it step by step? How do I acquire the rights?

How do I mostly find somebody, this is the most important part, mostly find someone who can write it well. The script is everything. And people can sniff out a bad script and they can sniff out a bad story on the screen even if you do everything else right. So you need to invest and find investors that are willing to pay a writer who's good at the job. That's the main thing. If you have the script, good scripts are rare so

people come towards them. Actors, directors, people want to be near it but the main thing is to have the thing that's at the center of everything, which is the script, be as great as it can be. Scripts will attract investment directors and talent. 100%. Investment directors and talent will run from bad scripts. It's all about the script. 100%. Next question. Pete Hastings. With the German people, we saw people who were complicit because they turned the other way.

They saw what was going on. They suspected something was going on. And yet they said, I'm not going to get involved or I'm afraid of what will happen to me because they saw the great power of the German, of Hitler's third right. There were people who got way involved what will happen to me because they saw the great power of the German, of Hitler's Third Reich. There were people who got way involved in the in Hitler's Third Reich. They enjoyed the power and they exerted great evil. And

then you have Bonhoeffer, which is a great story, and I'm so glad you're telling it because, well, we're all part of the army. We're either on one side or the other, and Bonhoeffer chose to be on the side where he lived out the power of the gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit, and he changed lives including those who hated him with the guard who was there right at his death. It's a beautiful story, I'm so glad you told it, and thank you for coming to Memphis to be sharing your night with us

because we know it's a sacrifice. Wow, thank you very much. Incredibly kind. More questions like that. More questions saying how great you are. All right, three more questions, then we're gonna answer the last question and then we're gonna break.

And yes, this person's name is Molly. Hi, Molly. What's your last name, ma'am? You're stealing my thunder. I'm Molly, I'm Bill's second child. Our sister is not here and my two brothers are right there and I'm their older, more mature, more attractive sibling. From, flown in from DC and DC to see.

Can we talk smack about your missing sister since she's not here? Absolutely. She's in Montana. She's defenseless. Okay, so when Undefeated first came out, you know how films go to film festivals. So Undefeated went to Tribeca, Sundance, South by Southwest, etc. And at the end of these, there's always a quick Q&A.

And I remember one instance, Dad was up there answering a Q&A and someone just like this asked who your hero was. And without any time passing, he immediately said Jesus Christ. And I remember some of the the team was kind of backstage and they all just dropped their heads like, this idiot. And they- Some of, not the football team, some of the movie team. The movie team, not the football team.

They're like, this idiot. And my point is, I feel like your world, your industry is largely secular. And that could be wrong, It could just be my impression. But how, one, how is it being such an astute, sound Christian in that world? And two, do you know of any instances where you have been a disciple to others who are non-believers in your world? Well, hopefully…

Hold it. My daughter asked a great question. That's why I've got to say. Man, your papa's so smart. I got it from my mom. Now answer my daughter a great question. That's why I've got to say. Man, your papa's so smart. Uh-huh. I got it from my mom. Now answer my daughter's great question.

Mama taught her. What was the question? The first part is I don't know any difference because I became a Christian at 22 and I became a professional writer at 22. So I don't know some way that it was before I was a Christian. I've always been outspoken about my faith. And I've said this before, it's possible that somebody somewhere, a group of people don't like me

or because of my faith, I don't know. But I'll tell you what, nobody's the gatekeeper of my destiny except Jesus Christ. So I am I am unafraid. And listen, man, if you went to a new restaurant and it was your favorite restaurant and it was the best restaurant you've ever been to, what are you going to not tell anybody? You tell everybody any piece of good news, you tell people. So the gospel actually means good news.

How could I not talk about Jesus all the time? Actually, in my opinion, there's nothing else to talk about. And the thing about discipling, you know, I have two people, they used to be young men. Now, they work with me. One started as an intern, the other started as my assistant. Jonathan Coleman has been with me for 18 years. 18 years, the same employee. And Seth Parks has been with me for nine.

And as much as I've been able to minister to them, they've ministered to me. And their family. And building a company with people that are crazy about Jesus is just an ongoing gift. It's beautiful. Yes, ma'am. Hi, my... Hi, my name is Sky. My question for you is what motivates you to go into film and why did you do this story

specifically? Okay, well it goes back to that getting grabbed by the back of the neck by the mama dog. This story specifically because it came out of nowhere and I said no to it. And in fact, after I'd written it, I said no to directing it for a year and three months. I didn't say yes to this movie until the 10th day of shooting in Belgium.

And I was standing and there was 200 crew members around and I was like, wow, we've been shooting this movie for 10 days, I better say yes. So I said, okay, Lord, yeah, I'll direct it. Like that's how out of touch I am with my, it's just, it's in his hands. And the first question was, how did I? What motivated you to go into film?

Oh, to go into film. So again, same exact answer. I am writing poetry with this wonderful teacher. One of those 10 poems that I got an A on, she submitted to a contest. She didn't tell me. I won the contest. It was my first professional writing payment,

50 bucks for a poem. And I was like, I'm a professional writer. And then my buddy had this really iconoclastic buddy who had, you know, maybe one and a half friends and I was two of them. And he only needed two more hours of an art study to graduate. And he's like, I'm going to make a short film, I'm going to direct a short film. You're going to write it. And I said, why am I going to write it? And he said, you won a poetry writing contest. And you cannot get farther afield from poetry and screenplay. You're just like, not possible. But we were

crazy and young and we made the worst film of all time. May it never surface, it would destroy my career. And we made it and we were so certain that this Hollywood was calling. We actually watched a movie together, a Lewis and Martin movie called Hollywood or Bust. And then we drove across the country and I never stopped working. Now that's totally God. Totally God. Amazing.

Thank you sweetheart. Thank you, Sky. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's,

to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also gonna have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha B., Roy Wood Jr., and Charlemagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well.

I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right. Last question, then back to first question. And then the dancing. And then we're going to rap and then the dancing New York man. No, we're not gonna do that part. Good evening, I'm Nisha Powers. I'm here with my husband and we brought our son, 10 year old Lucas.

And Todd, welcome to Memphis. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Go Grizzlies. Woo! Todd, it's the only thing you did today. You landed. Oh, first thing I did was go get Grizzlies gear so much. Go Grizzlies. Woo! I told you you did say you landed. Oh, first thing I did was go get Grizzlies gear. I love the Grizzlies.

Yes. Go Grizzlies. Woo! Actually, actually, you actually reached out to Alex before you got here and said, we gotta go get Grizzlies gear. Alex is the show's producer. Alex Cortez, everybody.

Hey, Alex Cortez. How are you? How are you? Okay, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, Alex Cortez. I'm like, wait, wait, wait. OK, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, that was great. Go Grizz. We're season ticket holders, and my kid loves that, too.

Rock and roll. So one of the things that's happened in my life is that since Lucas came, that my walk with Jesus was kind of a forced thing, like I had to get it right. And so that intimacy has really grown. And what I've noticed during that time is that every time that I try to do something good like that, that Satan is always working.

So the flip side of Jesus is that there is this other, somebody talked about armies, there are two armies. And so I sense that at times. And so I try to teach Lucas about that and to be aware that when he's on a path to be able to recognize those things. So did you see things like that happen during your journey making this amazing film and such a testimony in itself that you had to work against? I'm a firm believer.

Wow, answer that. Oh, I don't have any problem answering that. I know you don't have any problem. No, I don't because I'm a firm, there all the questions have been great. I'm a firm believer and not giving the devil too much due. I know he's weak. I know we've already won.

We're children of the resurrection. Nothing can take that away. And the tomb is empty and he's out of luck. Claiming that over him is not an uncommon thing in my life. But I don't see obstacles as coming from the enemy because there are so many obstacles. I would have had to be his full-time job, because making a movie is so impossible, and there are so many enemies of a good movie, and they're everywhere. And it's not darkness.

And it's actually a miracle that any movie ever gets made. Or it's any good. I mean, that's even more of a miracle. It's any good or gets made. So there's an aptitude, there's laziness, there's all kinds of things, and both of those being my own. So there is darkness in the world, it's real. Ours is not a battle against flesh and blood, but of the unseen forces.

I get all that, but fear not, Jesus said. The world will give you trouble, but I've overcome the world. We have to lean on the promises because they're unbroken. And what he says about fear, what do we do with fear? Of course people get afraid. I'll end the answer with this scripture. There's a scripture that's constantly misquoted,

and I blame the Protestant work ethic. I blame a little bit what you talked about, like you're trying to get closer to Jesus, and then the enemy's coming because you're trying. This word trying. So the scripture, the misquoted scripture, I will say to you, and you'll recognize it, be anxious for nothing, but in all things,

through prayers and petitions, make your request known to God, and the peace that passes all understanding will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. Now that's a great scripture it's also very hey chop chop be anxious for nothing hey you what do you what do you have an anxiety for what are you afraid of be Be anxious for nothing. That's not the Scripture. Does anybody know how that verse actually starts? Look at that. A room full of believers and we don't know how it starts. This is, you talk about the enemy? This is real guys. The verse is, the Lord is at, or the Lord is near.

Therefore, be anxious for nothing. It's not our burden. The Lord is here, He's here, He's here, He's here. The power that raised Jesus Christ from the dead lives in us. Nothing, no weapon formed against us can prosper. We have to claim it and live it out and realize how tiny and defeated the darkness is,

the devil is. They ain't got nothing on us. Thank you. Thank you. We're gonna answer one of the first questions last, and then I'm going to wrap this. And once again, for all the listeners out there, there's a room of 400 people here celebrating Todd this movie. But maybe through the celebration of the movie, of the story Bonhoeffer, and everything else, we can see a recurring theme, which is what you're going to talk about now.

So I was spectacularly saved, Mark and my friends. I had grown up in a house filled with love and faith. And for whatever reason on this journey of my life, when I left home, and this happens to a lot of young people, I know a lot of young men. I think I was 17 when I went to college, and it's just, it's too young to be alone. But I got to college and like a curtain made of cotton wool, my faith disappeared in a couple of days.

And I remember I was reading the book of Matthew when it happened and I'm reading about Jesus doing something and I thought to myself what how do we even know he did that? And then a couple verses later I'm like well how do we even know he was a real guy? You know, these are deeply informed thoughts of a teenage boy. But that opened this trap door under my feet or under my soul, and I was gone.

And I was so angry that I'd been taught this lie. I loved my parents. that I'd been taught this lie. I loved my parents, I never acted out against my parents, but I couldn't believe that they'd sold me this bill of goods. And so I needed to prove how dark the dark was, because the dark was the only thing that existed. So I fled from the light, I fled as long as I could,

until you come to the point where there is nothing else except madness. And I vanished. I tried to vanish for real off this earth way too many times to tell you. I can't believe I'm here. I have no business being here. Jesus had other plans for me. I have no business being here.

Jesus had other plans for me. He's the one that pulled me back from the ledge. Three things in specific saved my life. I wrote on a baseball trip to Florida my suicide note for my parents and my sisters. And we were traveling with the baseball team for spring break and we were staying on an army base. And as we walked onto the army base, I saw all these guns. These guns everywhere.

I was like, okay, well, these other attempts didn't work. This is definitive, this will work. I'd never been around a gun before in my life. I was like, wow. And they most of these guns are not locked up. So I was like, okay, this is it. So I wrote the note. And it was about two in the morning. And my roommate, Steve Nagel, who I call Jesus with a crew cut was stirring across the room. He said, what are you doing? And I said, I wrote a letter and I read it to him.

And I said, I'm gonna do that tonight. Thank you, Steve, thank you, Steve. Steve said, you're gonna have to get by me first. So I thought, I'll outweigh him. He was already sleeping. And so I waited in my bed and I watched him, and we kinda stared at each other across the room and and then actually the person who fell asleep was me and

When I opened my eyes Steve was not in his bed. He was in front of the door With his legs out like that and his head against the door Sleeping in the way He put himself in the way. He put himself in the way. That was the first. The second was when I got back to Wheaton,

I called my parents and I read them the note over the phone and they're 800 miles away. And my mom said, they're both in heaven now, but my mom said she didn't remember this conversation, I think just because it was too intense. My dad remembered every word of it. And what happened was I said this, the worst thing you can say to a parent. I'm gonna die tonight. And they were completely, completely calm. They were totally loving, with no judgment, with no, we're going to come and get you.

This is number, we're calling 9-1-1. They just loved me. And I remember my mania, because you've got to be, when you want to check out, your mania is pretty high. And I could just feel it like being absorbed You've got to be, when you want to check out, your mania is pretty high. And I could just feel it like being absorbed into their peace. So that was the second thing. And then the third thing is, about three weeks after that, I came home to my apartment and

I noticed on the shelf, oddly enough, my childhood living Bible. And I got so enraged. And so I took the Bible, and I walked into the front of the apartment, and I stood over a trash can. You know those green metallic, like army-colored trash cans, just industrial? And excuse me, and I held the Bible over the trash can. And I thought, can you throw away a Bible? I was really afraid.

I didn't even believe it. But I was like, I don't think you can throw a Bible away. I think if I let it go, it's going to fly up and bite me in the neck. So I couldn't throw the Bible away. And I took it and I hid it behind all the other books on my bookshelf. And so every night when I would come home from school, I would look over at the bookshelf and I would know it was behind there and I would be enraged. And then I would do nothing about it. And finally I just got so exhausted. And also that level of depression and that level of hate and you know I'm leaving out a lot of detail but just that level of pursuit of

darkness is exhausting. And finally I reached in the back, I pulled the Bible out and I sat down on the edge of the bed and I put it on my knees. And I said to a God I did not believe in, I said, if I open this book, you better be in there. I did and he was and he is. I can't tell you how many times I hear everything that comes out of Hollywood is a bunch of crap. All these shoot them up things, they cuss and everything else. Why won't they put something out

that I can take my family to the movie theater to see? Well, if you gripe about it, there's an answer for you. On November 22nd, Bonhoeffer is coming out about a phenomenal human being who is a normal person who saved and changed lives, who here we are a hundred years later talking about. The reason we have this on our podcast is because he is exactly what we're looking for in an army of normal folks. People

seeing areas in need and serving. It is written and produced by the kind of people that we have to support if we want this kind of content in our society. Thank you for being here. Thank you for supporting Army of Normal folks. Thank you for supporting Todd. Go see the movie. Join a movement and let's take back our culture and the narrative because as an Army of Normal folks, we can change what else is.

Thank you for being here tonight. And thank you for joining us this week. If Todd or other guests have inspired you in general, or better yet, take action by going to see the film in theaters, reading one of Bonhoeffer's books, trying to surf like Bonhoeffer in your community, or something else entirely, please let me know. I'd love to hear about it.

You can write me anytime at Bill at normal folks dot us and I promise you I will respond If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends and on social Subscribe to the podcast rate it and review it join the army at normal folks dot us Consider becoming a premium member there any and all of these things that will help us grow, an army of normal folks. Thanks to our producer, Ironlight Labs. I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric.

Well, the election is in the home stretch right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Jen Psaki, Estet Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee and Charlemagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about?

Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.