And That's Why We Drink - E228 Goat Cheese Marshmallows and Bougie Gators

Episode Date: June 20, 2021

This week we're here to party, y'all! Specifically with the incredible ladies from Sinisterhood! We're so grateful and excited to have Heather and Christie on this week (and to have been on an episode of theirs - check out Sinistershood, episode 142). To wow our guests, Em covers the ankle horney ghosts of the St. Augustine Old Jail and Christine takes us to Houston for the chilling case of the Icebox Murders. We've also got an exclusive scoop on Heather's job and Christie's lobster souffle... and that's why we drink! Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Go to HuntAKiller.com/DRINK and use DRINK, for 20% off your first box! Go to FunctionofBeauty.com/DRINK to take your quiz and save 20% on yourfirst order!Go to THIRDLOVE.com/DRINK now to get 20% off your first purchase!Head to Rothys.com/DRINK to find your new favorites today!Download the 5 star-rated puzzle game, Best Fiends FREE today on the App Store or Google Play! Go to Brooklinen.com and use promo code ATWWD to get $20 off, with a minimum purchase of $100!

thank you eva and everyone welcome to part two of me trying to get it together this is just like the perfect we are a train wreck and that's what this episode goes to show it's super fun we had our first guest in a long time. And it was the two lovely ladies from Sinister Hood. We had a blast. But they really, as Em will mention in the episode, were so professional when we were on their show. So professional. We dragged them over here and went, sorry.

We just like walked them into a dumpster fire after they had us hanging out in a palace i literally just now like they wouldn't have done what we just did i totally messed up and i was like we have to record all over again like that i'm just literally yelled in the middle it's july and i was like no it's not that is so not sinister hood of me anyway uh if you'd like to go check them out if you're not already listening please go check out sinisterhood.com also so we did an episode with them they did an episode with them. They did an episode with us. And yeah, it's just an episode where we were telling our stories and we had two extra people throw it in their comments, all of which were very, very funny.

Yeah, they're both very funny, extremely funny and also extremely smart. So it is a really fun, goofy episode to listen to on our end. And then we had such a blast on theirs. So that came out earlier this week if you want to check it out they're basically on any platform that we're on um but yeah you should definitely stick around and listen to this we had our first guest on uh for a reason we haven't we don't do many guests but this was just a special occasion and we were so excited and proud to have them in our into our lovely dumpster fire if it felt right and a lot of people have been asking for this crossover so to those requesting

here you are and we hope you enjoy it. Have fun. Okay, stop recording. We are here. See, I already can't do it. We are here with a very special guest. We are here with the ladies from Sinisterhood. Hi. Hi. Thank you so much. This is so exciting and such an honor.

Yeah. We're simultaneously pleased and terrified that we did a crossover on your show first, because Em and I sat there having telepathy the entire time we were just talking about this, about how smooth and seamless it went. And were like oh they're not they don't know what they're getting into here uh when we start our episode with no script nothing just you know what that's impressive that you can do it on the fly i like to see how the sausage is made as i say well here's the sausage you're really just you're really disgusting footage from that documentary that made you never eat again like the discount sausage yeah i am glad we were on your show first or recorded first because um had we done this and then jumped onto your show and saw how well done it is i'd be like oh my god

whatever y'all are very sweet thank you we're all we're all doing a different thing and we just want to we're here to party man so it sounds like we're here for y'all yeah this is party y'all are very sweet. Thank you so much. We're all doing a different thing and we just want to, we're here to party, man. So it sounds like we're here for y'all. This is a party, y'all. And we're doing, I guess, just like a regular episode,

but we wanted you guys to come on and just like, I don't know, join in the audience. Yes, find us. Like bantering, I guess. We're like that woman at the Lonely Island concert

that no one gets that reference because that just happened before we started recording. But we're just here. I'm just excited to be here. Yeah, we're just excited to be here. Well, usually, we'll usually we get off track immediately and tangent for 15 minutes, but we'll try to act kind of professional with you. Give the people what they want. Let's tangent it up. Don't don't change what you do for us by any means. they want let's change it up don't don't change what you do for us by any means uh well usually we ask why why we drink or at least we try to remember why to ask that question but is there a reason why this week why you drink could be good can be bad can be a random total reason

is there any reason good question uh i have this is let's do this uh it's a big announcement why i'm drinking that we haven't announced it on the air yet, but I'm going to announce it on your show. We're going to do it. This is amazing. It's huge. I gave my notice at work. So I'm going to be full-time potting it up.

Yeah. Oh my God. Congratulations. Yeah. Yeah. So it's huge. So it's like cheers. It's good thing.

It's a nonprofit. So I can still do pro bono work with them, you know, as, as schedule allows. But I told Christy, I sent her a gift of uh Texas Hold'em and I said I'm all in baby it's a little uh surreal to tell your work I have to stop doing this job to do where I talk into a microphone and like talk about horse taints and conspiracies and like ghosts some law stuff uh and they're like is this why you went to law school? And I'm like, yeah, this to be a podcaster, obviously. Congratulations. Very exciting. So exciting. So how long have you been thinking about doing this? Like, like officially leaving?

Well, as a kid, I wrote in a little notebook that I wanted to be a lawyer and a TV star and a radio star. And so there's a little paper where I circled them. And so, you know, forever, I've wanted to do both. But the reason why I took this job was because it was a lot more nine to five and i could do it nights and weekends and now as we're growing more and more i just like lay on my helix mattress shout out but i uh drink yeah we are on your show yes promo code drink uh but i lay on my you know i can't sleep as much because I'm working on the show. So we're trying to. So it came about in the last.

We just got represented. We now have the same agent as you guys. Why? W. Yeah. Oh, my God. Hell yeah. That's great.

So what happened to us? We were like working and working and then doing this on the side. And it got to a point where I was like, we got to make. Well, we got to pick. It was because we we got repped with WME and they were like, we got to make, we got to pick. It was because we got repped with WME and they were like, we're going to go on tour. And I went, my job is not going to be cool if I'm gone three weeks.

So that's why we ended up leaving our job. Well, congrats. Thanks for giving us the exclusive scoop. You get the scoop. This is where it will be announced. So that's our, that's another reason to drink is because now we share an agent with you. So, and I just want to point out,

we all came together here today through sliding into one another's dms it was not the hollywood machine it was very true we did this on our own campaign yes it was true fans tons of listeners message anytime we would both get tagged in a meme on instagram we would share it and always the response was oh my gosh you guys have to you'll have to cross over you have to work together and we're like any day we'll be here and i like reference you guys a lot in my stories like a big weirdo no we appreciate it sometimes i'm like oh well heather said this about the law and i was like okay i am the law it's like my way of uh sounding like i did my research i'm like well somebody else said this very smart thing. It's legit. It's legit. I'm sight checked by Christy. So why do you drink, Christy? Well, I had two souffles yesterday. Oh, wait, sorry. We're not congratulating you anymore.

Yeah. So I, uh, I went to this restaurant in Dallas for the first time called rise number one, and it's this souffle restaurant and the, well, here's, this is very embarrassing. So I was going for a baby shower brunch and I didn't realize that one of my very good friends who is the sister-in-law of the person having the baby was picking up the tab for everyone. So when, so you got two, well, when the, when the waiter was saying, I had already said like, okay, I'm going to get this souffle, but then the waiter gave us all the specials. And one of them was a lobster souffle. He was like, it's $50. And I was like, okay, I'm going to get that. And then I also got, so I got the most expensive thing on the menu. And then I also got soup and a dessert souffle.

You have to get the soup though, because they put the marshmallow, but then it's goat cheese in it. It's so good. Oh, wait, those weren't real marshmallows? In the soup, it's cheese. They don't put marshmallows. I thought it was real marshmallows. It's goat cheese. It's called marshmallow soup. soup yeah it's goat cheese that's in there i was like this is a weird

textured marshmallow because it was goat cheese i can't believe you ordered a 50 dollar lobster soup play on somebody else's tab dude i was fucking mortified so i came home and i was like tommy's like how was it i was like here's what happened and he just looked at me he goes you gotta Venmo her and I was like I know okay all right so I've been and I was like I'm so sorry I would have never ordered the most expensive thing on the menu had I known you were picking up the tab but that to say it was amazing as was the bread pudding souffle I had so I will drink to that and my marshmallow goat cheese. That's really funny because it's a tomato bisque soup. So I was like, marshmallow is an interesting choice, but they're French.

So what do I know? Who knows? To be fair, if so, if I were picking up someone's tab, I always kind of, I know they're trying to be nice, but if I'm with a group of people and offering to pay, I want you to have the experience of a lifetime and everyone's trying to be nice. And they're like, Oh, I'll just get a salad. And I'm like, you better get fucked up on food. If I'm paying for this, you better get the marshmallows. If I were paying for the tab, I'd be like, you know what? She came to party. So that's amazing of you. And my friend did say that she was like, you did not need to do this. I'm having a good time. That's amazing of you. And my friend did say that. She was like, you did not need to do this.

I'm buying your dinner next time we go out. It was my treat. But I was mortified. I feel like there are those people who would be like, I want three lobster souffles to go, please. It's on someone else's. I feel like they probably knew like, you're not that type of person.

No, yeah. She's a good friend. So if Christine were like, oh yeah, you can pay for my lunch. I'll just get like a cup of soup. I'd be like, I pray to God you're getting more than that. And then she would like-

You wouldn't pay for it. I'd be like, now you can pay for it. Here, Trump change food and go for it. You don't order a hundred dollars worth of food. You're picking up the tab yourself. Exactly. We started like- Don't embarrass me.

We're both traveling soon, which we haven't even talked about on the show, but we're both, I'm taking a baby moon with my best friends to Palm Springs and then Emma's leaving town. And so we like had like seven episodes that we had to record before both of us left town all of a sudden. And so we were like, oh God, we got to do like six or seven episodes in like two weeks or whatever. And the only way that we really get through it is by letting like our new rules that we can all order postmates including eva like on the days that we record as like it's a work expense yeah that's deductible tax deductible we plan for like what are we all gonna order on postmates

after this that's the prize you know what whatever gets you through, that's a lot to record in a short amount of time. I wish we had a souffle restaurant though. Oh, that's real good. Christie knows I'm always like that's deductible. We can deduct that. Yeah, we can go stay at that hotel. It's haunted. We'll talk about it on the show. It's deductible. It's for research. It's for research. That's what Christine does. Whenever we were on tour, she'd be like, okay, so the most haunted hotel, but bullet and I'd be like, I don't want to do that. And she'd be like, but it's's for it's through the business account if we do so yeah it's like a four-star restaurant they have a great bar and it's also haunted

you're describing the adolphus which we have a lovely episode about i think you covered that too m i will say you should i have had haunted experience at the fister and i think it's milwaukee which, um, so you should go there. And then where was the one we went when we toured new Orleans? Oh my gosh. There's so many haunted hotels in new Orleans. The Monteleone I've stayed in and it was haunted. Supposedly they're on my fake honeymoon where I, we told them it was our honeymoon. So we can get free champagne. Another pro tip. Um, but I go on a lot of moons clearly moons clearly um but what was the one we stayed at um i don't remember but it was haunted as hell and it was actually like we were scared we actually

had to sleep in each other's rooms because we were so oh it was a it was a it was like a an orphanage that caught on fire or something it was like nuns in it like imagine the worst yeah and like a war hospital also there was wow and now it's it's a hotel now now we all stay there oh all right rebranding we just gotta rebrand it and we were on a ghost tour and the guy stopped and was like this hotel and we were like uh-oh our stuff is in there yeah that's our window yeah he was like don't go in there you'll never come out you're like are we out right now he was like sometimes wallets go missing and i went uh-oh i gotta check my shit that's just a great ghost tour guy to say sometimes wallets go missing and he's just the one that's just picking him out and he's like it's a ghost who knows mysterious

oh well thank you so much for uh uh for being here i i'm on this the way i don't know how many episodes of this you've listened to if none that's fine but we oh no we've listened to your show we're gonna quiz you now we're just gonna yeah please we don't even know the answers it's fine but we usually i go first and mine's the ghost story christine's is the true crime afterwards so and ready feel free to banter away okay so my story is from jacksonville florida and this is the story of the saint augustine old jail oh is there a saint augustine new jail sorry question actually you know what's funny is that this is the new jail oh that it starts you'll you'll understand within the first

few bullets that this replaced the old jail so actually it's the new old jail it's the new old yeah yeah the 2.0 and have we been to jacksonville on tour we we have been this is the story i covered in jacksonville actually oh it is okay Clearly, I don't remember. So this is from. It's fresh for all of us. Well, Jacksonville, when we were in Florida, I had, I'm pretty sure COVID. Like at this, at this point, it was like a year before COVID ever happened. So probably not, but it was extremely, it was the second I've never, I've, I'll never be that sick again.

It was insane. Like try to call an ambulance for themselves, dial the number wrong sick yeah oh like 9-1-1 was too much yeah it was like one two three well no it was because i was i've i tried to use uh siri and i was like call the ambulance and i was just like so out of it i was like call the ambulance and i it didn't it didn't work yeah i went like siri let you down i i remember having like a hot flash i was in my grandma's house by the way i had a hot flash i was like tearing my clothes off i went like temporarily blind i like couldn't see anything and then when i woke up the next day, it was the sickest. I, I don't, I don't think I'll ever get that sick again. So Florida, I don't remember much of it. It was a real wild

trip. I was just drinking a lot. So I'd also don't remember. Well, Chrissy used to live in Florida. I bet you tore your clothes off and had hot flashes. Also went blind several times. Florida is a weird place. Florida is a weird, weird place. I was in the city limits and I went time to get crazy. So for the St. Augustine old jail, one of their tourist websites, this is a quote from them says, ladies, you better cover those ankles. Otherwise you could land yourself at a stay at the St. Augustine's old jail, which is interesting because very few women are mentioned. I feel like they just wanted to force that joke out. So I think it was, we could all say it was worth it. It was worth it. Definitely. Yeah. I thought they were going to say, cover your ankles because of the mosquitoes.

Oh, why I would have worn pants and socks. That's just the Florida tourism website. You have to. I just thought that there was ghosts in the jail that were horny for ankles, like pinching the ankles. I was like, what a bunch of pervy girls. There's a lot of layers to this joke, apparently. But it does make you think that we're immediately going to talk about women a lot in this. And it doesn't happen.

So I'm sorry to have completely misled you. So the history to this is that I'm sure if you're from Florida, you've probably heard of this guy, Henry Flagler. I'm not from there. I am just not to besmirch the good state of Florida. I, uh, I'm from Texas, but I did live there briefly, but no, I've never heard of this. Everyone screamed. This is the only thing I can remember from this live show is that M said that name and everyone started yelling. And I was like, I don't know who that is. You might as well put your hands up. You know it. Yeah.

Well, because Henry Flagler, there's now Flagler college, which is named. Okay. So Henry Flagler, who's a big guy in the railroad industry, he co-founded standard oil. He's just like top of the top. And he had a huge issue with the jail in town, which I guess is actually the old jail. It was called the St. John's County Jail. And he didn't like that his wealthy and high-end clients staying at his hotel would have to look at this eyesore of a jail from their windows. Apparently it was a 360 view to this prison disgusted floor to ceiling uh windows and just all it was was prison view the hotel was actually

in the prison i'm pretty sure um and so he just didn't want his clients to have to look at it a fun fact by the way the hotel that he owned was called the ponce de leon hotel which is now flagler college oh okay people that are now in college if you're at flagler college uh look out the window and if you don't see a jail you can thank henry flagler for that wow so to keep the hotel guests from seeing the jail flagler wanted to relocate the jail to the other side of the city i think he specifically wanted it on the outskirts so just nobody in town had to look at the jail to the other side of the city. I think he specifically wanted it on the outskirts. So just nobody in town had to look at it. And to clarify, he's just a rich person.

He's not like a mayor or in charge. Just an elite white man. That's all. You know what? That's how change is enacted in our great country. What's more powerful than a mayor? Elite white man. So he ended up requesting, I mean,

this is the confidence of a just rich white man he just went to the town the county commissioners and was like just move the jail somewhere else and could it just be not here they're like where he's like out of the ocean i don't care does it matter it makes me feel icky so can we do something about that and at first they said no but then he don't he said i'm a white man and i tell you i'm sorry where would you like to go as he said that he slipped them a check that was a donation it was ten thousand dollars to the county commissioners um interesting so a slight bribe and they ended up saying okay i guess we'll move it now. So they completely rebuilt a whole other jail on the other side of town.

They used the, this is just a fun fact, but the jails rebuild was done by apparently a specifically a prison construction company, which I never even crossed my mind that there's companies that specialize in those things, but. It's good to have a niche. You don't have like very special, like the bars on the windows very specific you don't really yeah there's no other buildings up and down not side to side slide through or you wouldn't want

someone that only designs you know restaurants to then design your prison yeah like we do in concept it's like no no that's a lot of natural light. We want to be able to see the kitchen, the guests to be able to like, you know, so it's a full, yeah, exactly. Well, especially if you're like, oh, I know you're used to building normal buildings, but we need you to build one that people cannot escape from.

No doors. Like a good energy flow right there. So they use this company called the Polly Company. And apparently the Polly Company would later go on to be famously known as the company who built Alcatraz. Okay. So this was not their last prison that they built. I like how they had graduated at that point where they're like, let's just put it on a fucking rock in the ocean. You know what people can't get away from.

We've tried a few ideas so far and the ocean is our really good bet um so they ended up building the poly company built the jail on the other side of town and flagler he decided that he wanted the jail to be painted a quote dusty rose shade oh got a lot of opinions yeah he does every opinion was his the color, apparently there was a bunch of houses in that area that were also dusty rose. And so he thought, oh, well, if I paint it the same color as the rest of the houses, it won't at least be an eyesore to them. How kind of him. Yeah, throw a jail over here, but also throw some paint on it. But also make it look like the rest of our houses.

So nope. But then also you're like but now our house looks like the prison that's exactly right it's prison pink no it's dusty rose it's dusty rose it's prison pink i know it was like the 1800s but what if the pizza delivery guy like got lost wrong place which house they all look the same uh and so it was mainly so that it would blend in with the rest of the homes. And also, I guess, so it looked like a fancier jail because if he was paying for it, then he wanted it to be nicer than the rest. And the goal was that nobody would know it was a jail in the first place, including the pizza delivery guy. And the people inside.

Maybe like, am I in a mansion? This is so nice. That's how you get them. That's how you get them to show up. In 1891, the jail was finished and it stayed open for 62 years so until 1953 but during that time i don't know if i need to make this clear enough but the jail's conditions were awful were great where was flagler flagler was on the other side of town with his very fancy hotel he He dropped the check and ran. He, yeah.

It was literally throwing paint on an old barn. He was like, it's going to look great. And the inside is going to be. Dusty Rose paint. It'll be pink. And that's all that matters. So here are some of the conditions. They had very tiny cells.

They had no glass in the windows. They were just iron bars, which apparently is called. I've seen it before. It's called iron glass. And that's misleading. It's very misleading. It's just iron bars. It's just iron bars.

So the reason that that's a terrible condition, especially in Florida, is because there's whatever the weather is outside is the weather inside. Yes. So many mosquitoes, those big ass water bugs. Yeah. weather inside yes so many mosquitoes those big ass water bugs yeah the things that christy's told me that live in florida i don't want those coming in anywhere where i'm at it sounds like the devil's serpentarium is that what you call florida i said it was the lord serpentarium the devil more specifically the devil you know one of the things when I moved out here, because I grew up in Virginia, so it wasn't as bad as Florida, but I grew up my whole life with humidity. Moving out to California was such a game changer.

It is. I live in fear of the day that I might move back to the East Coast because I can't imagine. It's trash. I can't imagine living in a prison where you know know, it's hotter inside than it is outside. Oh, yes. All the mosquitoes, how swampy it feels. I mean, so that alone, I would call this a living hell. It's a good deterrent to not commit crime.

There you go. And would never commit and would never show an ankle. Nothing. If you know, socks every day of my life. If I can't have an AC on low freeze, I'm out. I'm done. I'm going home. I have have an AC on low freeze, I'm out. I'm done. I'm going home. I have the ACs on low freeze.

I have a Bumble BFF account. And pretty much the only information on there is I need air conditioning all the time. Please. Yes. Do not make me hike. I don't want to go anywhere that's going to be warm. If there's no air conditioning, do not expect me to show up. So the jail.

Okay. So the weather was terrible. And also the jail had space for only 72 people and apparently 12 of those were for women so 60 men 12 women they were all together oh poor ladies hang on it gets even worse so they only had 12 slots for women because usually women weren't incarcerated just because they were women they were sent away for hysteria to asylum of course of course of course yeah so there was the why be incarcerated when you can't help but you're just a woman you have a uterus it's not your fault so there were there were less slots so even though it was meant for 72 people in total there were local businesses going to the sheriff and saying they wanted to use

the inmates for free labor and so the sheriff was letting more inmates come in than 72 so that businesses would pay him under the table for letting them use it's almost like a prison with corrupt origins continues to be corrupt. What? So obviously this led to overpopulation and it was so overpopulated. Apparently each cell was meant for, I saw on one website, it was four people per cell. And then it was, someone else had six people per cell, but apparently overpopulation got so bad.

It was almost like a dozen people per cell. People started killing each other just to have space, just to have more room. Oh dear God. And I mean, that's awful, but I get it. Cause I live in a house with just three other people. And sometimes I'm like,

you guys don't get out of this room right now. I'm going to lose my mind. You have three people and dogs and a giant pig in your house. A giant big ass pig. Yeah. Well, there's only me and my girlfriend in this apartment. And when we all left to do our bathroom break, she was like, why are you in here? So in the bathroom, find your space. Oh no. I went out to the kitchen to grab some water. I was like, well, I would also ask if you went. We're going at the same time. We're sharing.

We're sharing. So the women cells, to answer your question, the women were on the first floor and the men were on the top floors after that. So allegedly some of these women were only brought in, not even because they had done anything criminal but because they were spinsters and didn't have anywhere else to live and so they were just brought to the jail oh my god you're not married so we have a place for you and you're like oh is it like employment or college nope you're jail the pink jail you take the pink house to the pink prison i mean can you imagine your father at the time being like this this wasn't meant to be like it's too late for you and oh my gosh but here's something even more horrible is that apparently the women were expected to cook and clean for the whole jail

oh no give me the chair i'm not doing that i Hell no. Whether or not you were, I mean, all of them were inmates, but whether or not you had done anything wrong, you could be a murderer for all they care, but you were a spinster. They run the gamut all in one cell. First of all, can you imagine being the one who just didn't get married? Now you're just rooming with a murderer. I miss it. A man didn't find you attractive is what your your crime is or maybe they did and you turned them down and they're like you should have married them don't want to deal with somebody's shit for the rest of your life you enjoy being alone but now you have to cook and clean for 70 filthy criminals and the sheriff who lived there with his family oh super i just wow you have no

there's no impetus to be good like i'm'm in here. I'm pretty sure if she wasn't cleaning and cooking properly, there were like really like maximum punishments being dished out for really small infractions. So I imagine that was the motivation to scrub the floors all day. The only food that people were offered there were grits in the morning, beans at night. And I don't know what this is. i tried looking it up online and couldn't figure it out um if you were working that day you were also given tack for lunch tac anyone else that's a tick tock you got one tick tock for all of your hard work you may have a red one we only never heard of that it's yeah i don't know what tack is i looked

it up and it was a bunch of like i I guess it's a phrase in the military food. And so I don't think it was that. I think it's like a ration type thing. Okay. I feel like it is. I don't know. I'm going to go with tech tech because it makes sense that if you have to work that day, you better be presentable by breath.

You know? Yes. Especially if you're sharing a cell with 12 other people nobody i imagine showers weren't given to them often probably and also if like people are just going around killing other people in their cell if you have a tic-tac in your mouth you have at least one percent more of a chance yes that's true or if you pocketed your tic-tac you'd be like please don't kill me and no one's gonna get somebody that's giving them a tic tac that's so nice um so there was grits in the morning beans at night and tack if you worked in the morning beans in the lunch time here okay so here's where it gets really

fucked up though if you wanted to eat any more food you had to hope that if you were out in the prison yard there was an animal and you had to kill them yourself oh my god like a like a cow or just like a squirrel like a squirrel i think i went to the prison yard i know cows jump over the moon but not over the barbed wire fence so well you'd be eating for a really long time if you got a cow but a squirrel or a frog yeah that's like a one meal florida serpentine what did you call it oh the lord serpentarium i feel like it's gonna be lizards and frogs it's like snakes a lot of snakes maybe a gator though also y'all like frog legs over there eat them at at least. Right. So maybe they had that. I snake. Yeah, I've had

frog legs. I've had gator, too. Not bad. I'll tell you. I had gator at the Texas State Fair, which is one of my favorite times of year. And I got little gator chicken nugget kind of things. They were so good. It was so fluffy. I was I've never like you said earlier, you've never been sicker. I thought that it was the end of my life i was so ill and i i was a teenager at the time and i asked my mom i was like what's wrong with me and she was like you ate a bunch of gator yesterday that is a fair classic texas illness yeah yeah texas without telling me you got the gator gator i got the gator stick i've've had gator, but I've only had really low quality gator. So you got to get those, those bougie gators from the Everglades.

You got to get the souffle from the souffle restaurant. $60 gator souffle. I feel like in Florida, there's a lot of options for gator, but in Virginia, I have a, I've had low class gator, but I've also had high tier squirrel. Oh, I've also had high tier. and oh i've also had high tier uh this is pretty common but rabbit i feel like rabbit and gator kind of taste the same okay no i'm never eating a rabbit i ate a capybara people give me a lot of yeah heather's monster and ate a freaking capybara isn't that the animal that smiles what do you yeah i wear sweaters yeah I didn't know I was visiting Colombia and there was a I speak Spanish ish but I did not know the word for capybara in Spanish and they just kept going it's

chiguino and I said I don't know what that is they're like it's just like meat it's meat I was like is it like like pork and they're like yeah it's kind of like pork no it's not then I ate it and then I got back to the Airbnb where I had wi-Fi because I didn't have Wi-Fi at the time. And I looked it up and I was like, it happened. I didn't volitionally eat capybara. I was tricked into eating capybara. Okay, but did it taste good? I mean, it was like a little bit, it was kind of porkish, but it was more kind of greasier.

Oh, okay. Yeah, a little more gamier. I would not do it again. I live with the guilt every day of my life i mean i'm a vegetarian now but i did used to eat cow tongue my parents in germany you eat some weird meat and yet the sliced cow tongue they would put on like bread and butter and it's so gross because you can see like it literally looks like can you see that it's like really thin but you can see the muscles. It's really thin.

You can see the taste buds. I was at a French restaurant and it was cow tongue with squid ink sauce. I did not order it. It was the tongue on the plate and a drizzle of sauce over it. It looks like a person's tongue. You can see the dots. It's gross. One time my mom always told us,

you're eating kielbasa. I should have known. it was ostrich so we used to eat that too oh interesting i don't know it's probably a vegetarian now i like the ostrich was pretty good like if you already did the heavy lifting i was like yeah i mean yeah because if you wouldn't eat it you wouldn't eat it if you knew what it was but afterwards if you're like this was, you wouldn't eat it if you knew what it was. But afterwards, if you're like, this is really good. And someone's like, well, it was a copy bar. You've already said it's really good. Like, you can't take that back. I've said this before.

I remember we got like in a heated debate about this forever ago, Christine. But I still stand by it where I'm like, I don't support cannibals. But like, I would like to ask one an honest review about a human. So I never have to even think about it. But then I told you what the guy said and you were like oh interesting i was like okay but like he also ate like a 16 year old girl and you were like but what did it taste like we got a big big debate and by the way the the i am happy that i have the knowledge i i mean i'm sad i have the knowledge also because something horrible happened. But the review that he gave, I was shocked. I did not expect those to be the answers.

It was gross. What did he say? It was the corn thing. So he ate someone's. Why did you bring this up, Em? He ate someone's, like, the meat on their butt, their rump, I guess. Why would you go for butt? Apparently because it's. Because it's the meat on their butt their rump i guess why would you go for butt apparently because

it's i guess it's is it like a because it was a tight muscle or i don't know he ate like the whole mine sure ain't but but apparently because there's a lot of fat it's like sitting in there and it looks like corn oh yeah yeah yeah that's when they like when they lipo people it looks kind of like that when it comes out. Yeah. And I was like, Em, are you happy now? I was satisfied and very unsatisfied all at the same time. Anyway, grits, tack, and beans. Let's get back to the grits.

So they only ate grits and beans, sometimes tack and also sometimes gator i think um there was again to to get back to one of your points you made there was no running water for hygiene uh there were no toilets there was only one bucket per cell and it was i've seen unless i was looking at like a um some sort of like imagined. I think I saw a picture of the actual cell with the buckets and they were tiny buckets. And like you got to get to that bucket first. A dozen men per bucket. And like and there's no running water to even wash your hands to shower.

They had enough water to drink. And that was it. I'm going to get up early. Covering that smell. But that one tick tack is there to save the whole cell, I guess. Early bird gets the bucket. And also my thought too is if there's no running water, like you're not cleaning the bucket in between throwouts. Oh.

You know? Yeah. It's just port-a-potty all the time. This is hell on earth. So many people died from poor sanitation and dysentery shocking if you if you had a bed you only had a mattress you did not have blankets you didn't have pillows and the mattresses were made with spot spanish moss so they were infested with chiggers oh so um they're not mattresses it's like plants and you're just

sleeping on you're sleeping on a hay bale basically i don't imagine if you get up from it somebody's gonna come lay down you know there's 12 or more other people ready to just get in there yeah yeah you only get up if you gotta go to the bucket and then you've lost your spot yeah and then you also have sugars i don't know if you've had sugars i have i have you you're awful they're terrible um and then of course the inmates were being beaten tortured and starved um sure sure sure to make sure that nobody escaped the sheriff also had attack dogs behind the building to catch people and in solitary i don't even think you got a mattress i think you were just like guaranteed no comfort at all so it

doesn't actually sound much different than what you had anyway. It actually sounds like- Maybe you got your own bucket though. That's what I was going to say. So maybe it'd be worth it. Yeah. I don't know. I honestly, I would take the solitary at that point. There was maximum security, like a death row section of this jail. It was facing the yard, which had the stocks where you like put your hands and your head through the gallows and the quote torture cage oh good good i don't like the sound of that so while you're in maximum security that's your only view is just watching other people in stocks and torture cages i think and i didn't know what a torture cage was so apparently in 1920 there was an article in the butte daily bulletin

and the this isn't about the saint augustine old jail but this is about alcatraz and the headline was u.s still uses torture cages at alcatraz jail and i'm assuming these are the same torture cages everywhere else standard architects right So yeah, very true. So here's a quote from this article just explaining what they are. Prisoners locked in the torture cages must stand in a rigid vertical position, unable to move in any direction. So they're just those really narrow cages. You like the Salem witch trials. They have these.

Yeah. Apparently the cages are six feet high, not even two inches wide and not even a foot deep. Wait, not even two inches or two feet six feet high not even two inches wide and not even a foot deep wait not even two inches or two feet sorry not even two feet wide not two inches two feet they were 23 inches wide and sometimes they were up to 12 inches deep um and also if you were taller than six feet i mean you were also yes yeah so it's like a stand-up coffin? Yeah. But without all the satin and nice in it. Yes. Right. Smaller.

A little pillow. Yeah. And you're alive. Yeah. Coffins can be comfortable. You know what? I would have taken a coffin if I had a pick between the two. Absolutely.

Alcatraz defended. So apparently the headline was like, how are they still using this? Because in 1920, that was considered inhumane. Far back. so apparently the headline was like how are they still using this because in 1920 that was considered inhumane and alcatraz offended that they were more humane than solitary confinement because at least if you were outside in an iron cage you were getting airflow versus being down in a dark basement oh i'm sorry i'd like to move my arms i don't give a fuck about the sun exactly your vitamin d yeah no they might have also been called steel straight jackets i saw that that was a reference a lot in the article that makes sense there was no explanation for it it does feel like

a steel straight jacket you're stuck in iron so it makes me feel panicky just thinking about this yeah very claustrophobic and also like as someone who always i already are have like a bone or like a back or something that's always sore. I can't imagine being stuck in a place where I can't stretch. Well, and it's also, again, Florida outside. And you're just, you can't smack a mosquito on your arm. You know, you can't bend and they're getting your ankles. Yeah.

I mean, I guess if it's Alcatraz and there's the sea breeze, that might be a little bit different. But Florida. Oh, God. So I also mentioned the gallows earlier and they were made for each individual inmate's death. I hate when it's so. I also heard one reference where the inmates themselves had to build their own gallows. had to build their own gallows. Wow. So either you're building the thing that's going to kill you or you were sitting in maximum security watching other people build your execution site

the day before you were going to die. Either way is horrible. Torture. And they also very often miscalculated or mismeasured when they were building it. And so, quote, if not done right, the person being hanged could be decapitated or in these cases suffer from dangling strangulation.

Because I guess, though, based on your weight, the rope has to be a certain length. So they just never put that into account. And people were dying even more horrifically. Because you have kind of amateurs coming through. You know, if it's the first and only one that they build, then yeah, they're not doing it right. And it's just more suffering. Also, if you're building your own, maybe you're trying to fuck it up on purpose.

Yeah. You think, oh, I'll get out, but you don't really know. Build it a couple feet too long. Yeah. Several feet. And loose. And then just yank it off and run. But I don't know.

They'd probably check it. This gallows is five feet tall. What are you on? Right. Also, not to be too insensitive, but like is someone monitoring you making it this gallows is five feet tall what right also not to be too insensitive but like is someone monitoring you making your own gallows like are you watching like a skillshare video on this like yeah right like how do i do this or you know anyway so the rumor has it that the inmates had to build themselves or either way it was just being miscalculated one of the men that

did go to the gallows he went to this jail for beheading his wife with a straight razor oh well we don't feel too bad for him being in those conditions then yeah but he also like i that just i can't even imagine the time commitment yeah that's heinous you have to really want to that's a passionate hate yeah so there's only eight documented deaths probably many more um especially since people were allegedly being killed in the cells all the time but there's only eight documented ones i think those are the eight that went to the gallows um everyone else they were just like whatever i feel like the sheriff is just covering stuff up too yeah yeah he's bribing people he's loaning human beings out as machines

i don't think he gives a fuck about files yeah i think he just was he got lazy about he's like i'll write them down one day and then he just forgot this allegedly after by like the eighth death they realized that the gallows thing wasn't working and so they discontinued um killing people on site but still eight people had to deal with that. The jail was closed in 1953. It's apparently now a museum. And it's also a historic landmark. It has a ghost tour called the After Dark Investigative Tour, where it's 45 minutes.

A tour guide brings you down and they give you four different pieces of ghost hunting equipment so you can play with those during your stay and see if if anything if any alarms get set off or if you catch anything so i always what's the best piece of ghost hunting equipment there's a lot i like the spirit box the spirit box it says voice it speaks to you out through the radio waves the honestly the best one out there which is also the hardest one to get which by the way i never told you christine the reason i drink is because we did not make no i thought you're gonna announce it now we didn't get the ebay purchase uh so what were you trying to find one for years we've been trying to find for years they only show up every now and then

because they've been discontinued but they're known as like the piece of ghost hunting equipment and it's called an ovulus 3 and it's a spirit box but it's a silent one so it doesn't give that really annoying sound and basically it allows ghosts to manipulate radio frequencies and speak through the the machine to you but it also has like a microsoft sam voice so you don't have to hear through a radio and guess what the word is. It'll say the word and show it on a screen. Oh, that's cool. And don't be fooled.

There's an obvious four. That's like, not not a high quality. There's obvious. I think there's no, like an obvious seven now or something, but there's the only one that people care about is the three. And it's like a thousand dollars starting.

It's really hard to find. And I, I found one right before our birthday. So I was going to try to surprise Christine with it. about is the three and it's like a thousand dollars starting it's really hard to find and i i found one right before our birthday so i was going to try to surprise christine with it and there was this huge bidding war and it and was like how high can i put and i was like don't ask me i'm gonna say like 30 grand it's deductible what did it end up going for it went for uh like four grand it was like wild so shit yeah anyway so the best one is the obelisk three but um the spirit box in general is really fun the that's one of the ones that they give you on this tour they also give you um like a a thermal imager so you can see heat signatures

if there's temperature changes they give you an emf detector which reads electromagnetic energy uh to it's a good yes or no game with for ghosts where you can say oh make this machine light up if it's a yes or no i thought you were gonna say hp printer oh no not actually everyone's wearing dark red dresses actually honestly now we might bring a printer to the next guest investigation you know if you don't have an ovulus 3 you might as well go all the way back to the printer and just start there for technology start with a fax machine see how far you go um and then there was something else i don't remember that they gave you during the tour but you could play around with it and i always like a good ghost tour when they offer equipment i always think that's more fun yeah yeah that's much better yeah if you can hear knocking that is um a good child that's the child upstairs that lives in my apartment she

loves to run and then she also loves to fall and then she loves to cry and scream afterwards you think she she puts her ear down to the floor and she goes oh i hear a ghost story yeah actually that's pretty genius too i don't know shine i don't know what her i swear her parents give her a hammer as a toy and like, hang on the floor. Hang on the floor. It'd be so fun. Anyway, I hate that child. I get she's a kid, but like, I really, there's no child I've ever disliked so much.

So where were we? Oh, so the tours. So the jail closed in 1953. It's a museum, historical historical landmark and it has ghost tours these are some of the things that people claim to experience there people hear footsteps they hear chains dragging they hear dogs barking which i i guess we assume is the sheriff's attack dogs voices talking to each other in the cells and angry whispering. Other visitors have said they hear a woman laughing in one of the cells, like maniacal laughing. There's another, a man laughing in

the sheriff's office. There are screams and yells throughout the entire jail. A little girl has been heard laughing in the office, which I hate little kids laughing as ghosts. I just, what are you laughing at? I feel so insecure now. It's like, you're just making fun of my shirt or something. Kids are brutally honest. They, even ghost kids, they will tear you down. You have nothing to lose to the core. They're just like, there was a little kid that I, when I was like 13, I was, it was like that age where I started babysitting children. I remember there was a little girl that went up to me and went, why are you so ugly? And I was like, I was like, you are my first and last child I'm ever watching. My friends and her teachers

will tell me, yeah, that the kids will be like, you look bad. What's wrong with your face i was like no filter the office no filter yeah and then apparently people also hear the uh a man humming swing low sweet chariot also so bad so also so eerie song yeah depending on how slow it's being hummed it just gets worse yeah visitors also say that they report uh the smell of either something really really sweet that make like so sweet it makes them nauseous or the smell of something rotting well that makes sense there's buckets everywhere like going into a bath and body works right i was trying to think of an example that was perfect yeah it's either a bath and body works or a porta potty yes um although i do think it's interesting that both of those things have been,

both of those words have been used to describe the smell of death. Oh. Yeah, sweet. That sweet smell. Yeah, true. Yeah. I got to rethink my body spray. By the way, Bath and Body Works smells like death.

Let's see. Oh, people also say that they feel their clothes getting yanked they feel someone this is the worst blowing on their neck no no which like why like what's the point what are you getting out of that i mean if you're a ghost though probably that's a really yeah that's a good way if you slap someone in the face it's gonna piss them off but if you go they're like oh the ultimate reaction i feel like that's a ghost that truly just wants you to feel so uncomfortable oh yeah because now you don't know when it's coming again you know what's happened before now you have to be like this for the rest you're just

tense up you can't enjoy your tour professional ghost uh so blowing on your neck people have been grabbed they've been pushed out of cells and they've also been tripped out of cells so they've would like swear that there was something that they just like kind of awkwardly stepped over and nothing was there okay but to be fair every time i trip i'm like no there was something in the ghost that crack in my own house came out of nowhere what happened okay i call my real stairs weren't there yesterday uh people are one tour guide actually said he's been gut punched while in the middle of giving a tour god oh jeez can you imagine being a guest on that tour we're gonna go to hr to the right oh you have to go to hr and be like i need to complain i was punched at work today and they're like like, we can't. What file are we going to write? That's a worker's comp claim. Exactly. If I saw the person I was trusting with my safety

get gut punched by an unknown force, I would be holding my own stomach for the rest of the day. Like, I can't wait to leave. You got to go stomach, neck, because you're covering your neck from the blowing and the, yeah, those are professional. So sad. There's also, well, if your stomach and your neck weren't overly are professional. There's also, well, if your stomach and your neck weren't overly protected enough, there's also been reports of icy cold hands sliding from your neck down the back

of your shirt. These ghosts are handsy. Babies are. Really like grabbing on you. Also, the only thing worse than a cold hand is a damp hand. Like a moist hand? Like a clammy hand. You know if it's Florida, it's a moist hand. It's a cold hand is a damp hand. Like a moist hand? Like a clammy hand. You know if it's Florida, it's a moist hand.

It's a moist hand in Florida. I only mention it because... It's the devil's moist hand. I only mention it because the internet tells me it's cold hands, but I know it's wet hands. I know it is. It's got to be clammy. Other people have experienced overwhelming sadness or anger and when they're alone in the cells people have also felt really lonely in certain areas of the jail and apparently there's

a little girl named sarah in the kitchen um which i know nothing else about that i didn't even find that in any articles i found that on a youtube video but apparently this person who went on the tour said that she had the most fun trying to talk to sarah in the kitchen and so i'm imagining horror i don't know why but i just i feel like she's almost like so scary you like don't want to talk about her i just assume if an entity tries to say i'm a little child or i'm your grandma i was like it's a demon trying to trick me into giving energy every time thousands Thousands of percent. There are people who obviously this is my least favorite thing is they see shadow figures.

One of them is pacing the kitchen all the time. So they'll just see it going back and forth through the doorway. There's another person walking around in the office, which I guess would be the sheriff because that was his office. Another person is just sitting in a chair staring at you. Oh, I don't like that and then one apparition is said to hide in a corner and watch you another crouches the crouch i was gonna say tell me there's not a crouching one there's always a crouching or a crawling crawling even as a live as a live person why would you ever crouching is nothing good comes from that oh it hurts i mean how you get back up if you go down you gotta go back up oh yeah i go down and

just go further i just fall right on my day there i just told christine i just had a birthday party a couple days ago and uh one of my friends brought a pinata full of candy and so it was me and a bunch of like either 30 or about to turn 30 year olds. And we were so excited about the candy. We all like dove to the ground to grab the candy. And all of us on the way down were like, ugh. And then like once we got down there, we were like, how on earth are we getting up? Yeah, it's hard.

No, coming back. It was like our nine-year-old brains took the situation by storm. And then our 30-year-old knees were like, I know you didn't know your fucking knees. And then later you're like, I could have just bought this candy. But a wall of brains.

Yeah. But anyway, yeah. So crouching is just a no-go for me for the rest of time. Nope. But this very limber apparition will crouch and then stand up and walk through the wall. And then just to leave you on this, there is the crawler. Nope. I fucking knew it.

I was like, something is telling me. Also, crawling as an adult is very hard to do. Like, try to army crawl through your house and just see how far you get not as far there's no shack carpeting in this prison like no it's concrete yeah goat or there's no pants yeah i don't know why i make the situation so much worse for myself but when i think crawling as like a ghost or a demon i think of it like what could be a more twisted demonic version of crawling and then i think of the crab walk. Yeah.

So apparently it's a human-shaped shadow figure that crawls on the floor and follows you from room to room. I mean, I would really rather, I don't know, jump out the iron glass window. Squeeze through those bars. I can't fathom this. Anyway, this building is listed in the National directory of haunted places which i didn't know existed but now i need a hard copy i need some binders that is the story of the saint augustine will haunt my dreams crawlers no good i want to go on a tour though i do yeah i i want to i'm glad it's only 45 minutes because some other places i report, they're like, oh, if you want, you can stay here for six hours by yourself. And I'm like, oh, I don't think you understand. That's not what I meant.

Once I see the crawler, like I'm out. I want to leave. I want to pick my head in and then just like, and then leave. That's all I want. You can get a feel for it. You know, it's fine. It's plenty of time. I get the idea. Show me pictures on Yelp. That's all I really need. Oh my God. Well, I now have a crime story. Okay.

Speaking of being old, hold on. Okay. You're not old. You're just pregnant. Yeah. You have, you're carrying two people up when you push yourself off the chair. There's also that. I just yell my old bones all the time.

Something old cracker pop i do feel really elderly i walk around with my hand on my back and i'm like oh my god i feel like i'm grandma anyway well i have a crime story and this is actually a texas crime story oh and it's in houston um so it's not it's not dallas but we're not that far from here. It's fine. Close enough. Yeah. Yeah. My favorite is of a friend's like, I'm coming to Houston for work. Can we grab lunch? I was like, hmm. That's yeah. The only bit of a long lunch. I'll leave it for him. So we can make a long weekend. That's my friends in Virginia where it was just a small enough state.

You could get pretty at least up and down. You get from top to bottom and like a couple hours now when my friends are like oh i'm in san francisco like let's get together and i'm like that is six hours away not what's happening we can Skype thanks yeah uh we the only reason i know anything about texas geography is that we did a couple we did two tours now in texas. And I was always the driver. I would get the rental car. And those highways, I tell you. Oh, yeah. I was like, why is this entrance backwards?

And there were so many trucks and SUVs. And we were like our little LA selves. Like, oh, my God. And a little Honda. It's intimidating. I was in Fort Worth and saw a horse on the highway. So it's wild. He was exiting.

But it was all right. Don't worry. He was exiting, but he was like, don't worry. He was getting off. Did he wag his tail to the right? He was like, you knew he was getting off. Oh my God. Yeah. And we drove all over Texas. We went to a lot of Bucky's.

Oh yeah. Oh, that's our place. We love Bucky's. I know. I just heard you guys talking about that on your most recent episode. Kind of a lot. Same. So do we. So do we. I feel like half of talking about that on your most recent episode. We talk about it like kind of a lot. So do we. I feel like half of my clothes are Bucky's shirts.

And like, I feel like if you're in Texas, you're just like, okay, yeah, it's Bucky's. But like as someone who doesn't go there all the time, it's like we're there for a live show and we go for Bucky's. We leave early to go. No, as you should. Even in Texas, we are still like, oh, it's Bucky's. That makes me happy that the magic is still alive. Oh, for sure. Very much. Very much. No, when they put a new spot, my Christmas presents for other people.

That's the way to do it. You have clothes for your kids from Bucky's. I do. I do. Yes. I brought a snacks. I brought beaver nuggets to Christmas that Christy had given me and I shared them with my family and you, they didn't care that i was there they were like nice they put a new buckies in and my mom and her friend were like well we're i'm not gonna be home on wednesday because diane and i are going out to the buckies i was like that's just your day trip you need to

go anytime we retire to texas and had uh our meet and greets we end up with like 16 bags of beaver nuggets like i sit in the hotel room drunk on like just drinking the rest of the wine from the live show and like eating beaver nuggets and what time it's trying to pack all bucky yolo next time y'all come through we're gonna we'll all be there together yeah i would love that live show of all four of us at Bucky's. How fun would that be? Wait a minute. Don't even say it.

Don't be amazing. Call the agents. Heather, didn't your coworker see someone get married at Bucky's? I did. There's photos on the internet. I'll find the pictures and send them to y'all. But someone did a Bucky's wedding at Bucky's. Genius.

Next level. Commitment. They also made Bucky, because, you you know there's a giant statue of bucky out front of the buckies and right now i don't know if he still is but he was wearing a giant mask that somebody made for him someone had that job they're like you gotta go measure and make a mask for bucky yeah it's not as like iconic i guess but in la we have like a ripley's museum uh really believe it or not museum and we have this like i guess the a life-size dinosaur head on the roof of the building and so you see like a dinosaur like coming out from the store and the dinosaur has a mask and i'm

like that has to be a bed sheet like i have to be a tarp like like what's the largest piece of fabric that exists and that has to be what's going on la like every every prop house you call is like that's the least weird thing we've ever made it's true oh so true we can do dinosaur mask by 3 p.m yeah i used to get so many weird requests working in our in the prop house that at this point if someone said i need a mask that will fit a dinosaur's face and be like that, sure. We already have three in stock. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, so I have a Houston story, but all right. You know what? I recognize it's not the same, but there's probably a Bucky's on the way to there. There are several. Yep. Several. Perfect. So this is the story of the

Houston icebox murders. Do you guys know? Not familiar. familiar okay good because i i went through all your episodes no we have not covered this okay i tried to make sure i typed it i like that we all did our uh due diligence yeah i did a little research amazing so this is an unsolved case from houston and it took place in 1965 we're going back to 1965 when elderly couple fred and edwina rogers who are 81 and 72 had seemingly dropped off the face of the earth they hadn't answered their phone in days and knocks from concerned relatives had no answer and they had a nephew named marvin marlin and i wrote to myself in my notes this is not a typo because i probably would have assumed marvin marlin like, there's no way. And he's like, it's for Christ's sake, it's my name. He can't be right.

So their nephew, Marvin Marlin, grew increasingly concerned and finally asked police to do a welfare check. So two Houston officers arrived at the apartment and after receiving no answers, kicked the door in. They took a look around and one of the really unfortunate officers opened the fridge. round and one of the really unfortunate officers opened the fridge and he saw what he initially thought were stacks of packaged hog meat oh oh shit boy yeah it turns out they took a look around and took it out thinking oh well they just are really into hunting or something um well the amarillo globe times reported the next day, on all the shelves and in the freezer compartment where the dismembered bodies cut and unwrapped, washed off pieces smaller than individual joints. Ay, yay. Wait a minute.

Can you repeat that? What size were all these pieces? Smaller than individual joints. So nothing was like larger than. Everything was cut into like a fillet. Its own like a sirloin top yeah so okay my first thought is this is like a butcher or someone who does go hunting a lot to be able to know right how to make that many sizes and a vertical cut what in what order yeah and there were two

of them so it's a lot you had to come in to. Yeah, you need an extra deep freeze for that. Yeah. Like a garage freezer. If I had to cut up a body, it would definitely be like in the weirdest shaped chunks because I wouldn't know what to do. So this already feels very like this was well thought out. I would do one and then be like, that's a lot. I know.

It's hard for me to do a task without knowing the end. Like I have ADHD, so I need to see a finished task. Hey, ADHD gang. I have to see a finished task hey adhd gang i have to see a finished task in order to work towards that i can't conceptualize future things yeah if you're building a gallows for yourself correct i would need to see a gallows start like right completed project yeah or at least see somebody else's i need a like a lego version manual of like each little piece one by one yeah absolutely i'm the person who immediately throws the instructions away and then like just doesn't see i'm the total opposite and i have to read

through all the instructions before i start and then i'd be like okay now i know how to dismantle a body i got it christine and i uh whenever i've hung out with her and i've watched her build anything it's it's the most chaotic experience. I've watched her just take a hammer and nail to things that never needed those two tools. There's a pre-screwed hole. I used to, like Em's favorite story is tell the curtains. Well, okay. There were curtains and I thought I don't want to spend the time to screw up these curtain rods because it takes a lot of time and leveling. So instead, I just hammered nails into the wall. I just stuck it on there.

It worked just fine. Thank you very much. Oh, and you just rest the bar atop the nails? Yeah. You know what? That's a nice little design hack. Thank you. I will give her credit in that it worked.

But like the part of me where I like I'm such a rule follower when things like come packaged i was just like this is so not what's supposed to happen that would make my eye twitch heather knows i'm a big rule follower and if anything is out of uh the ordinary like that i can't relax i like m did a arts and crafts thing for us once and we have it all on video so it's on youtube i think it's our patreon but um we did like this space camp for eva's birthday and we were doing crafts and m was just getting so angry at me because like there was just like glue in my mouth and like glitter coming off my hair and m was like christine like because i was being like the parent at the party like giving out like here's a plate for you that is me for you and he was like look at this beautiful like spirograph thing i made and i'm like here's where i live on this planet and there's

lemons and my head is glued to the plate i will say there's a there is a special place like in hell but also here for like people like christine because like it when it came to that arts and crafts project though i was so in my head about it I couldn't, I was so frustrated the whole time that it wasn't turning out how I wanted. And Christine was just like kind of just throwing shit together and it ends up being beautiful. And like same with, same with building things where I'm like, that is not how that's supposed to happen, Christine. And it works anyway. So like, yeah. You really have to, I took a rat taxidermy class.

What was it? Oh, sure. And they had everything laid out. You were talking about your little mouse. My little mouse, Ratbender Ginsburg. And the person next to me was just loose, was just going for it. And it was stressing me out because I was like, there are steps that we need to be taking in order. And then she made a cute little bed for it.

And it was funny. It ended up, like you said, the art on the other side of it. I was like, we all have our own art processes. And I just need to accept. Yeah. And it's very type a that's hard to see. Like when we do arts and crafts, my daughter and I, she's three and a half. So, you know, it's you, but I'm like, like, I have to really stop myself and be like,

but don't you want to, you know, um, color in the lines, color in the lines, or maybe, um, like she drew a rainbow the other day and it was just, um, color in the lines, color in the line, or maybe, um, like she drew a rainbow the other day and it was just, um, a, it was vertical and I was like, okay, this is cool. Um, yeah. So I have to, you, Christine and my daughter would have great arts and crafts. This is really great. Cause now that I'm expecting a child, I'm sort of like blazes a Capricorn and he's very grounded and level i'm a capricorn there you go see and he works in medicine and i'm like he's just very like but you know he like knows and i'm just one again who just like burns the instruction manual so nobody can look at it

and then like tries to figure it out and it's kind of crooked but it works is such i mean in the in the nicest way is such a mess and like i but like i like you're gonna be such a fun mom because they're gonna be like i want to splatter paint the floor and you'll be like why the fuck haven't i done that yet i actually have already done that so you know what do it where i did it we'll just add to it and not that you raise really creative free thinkers when you have that kind of parenting approach so your kid's gonna be great yeah that's what i'm gonna say anytime blaze is like pulling his own hair out they're a free thinker how open-minded they are yikes anyway so on that note somebody who was not me very carefully dismembered these bodies and put them in very very carefully

pre-packaged uh they're a free thinker okay oh wait they're not they're not a free thinker, okay? Oh, wait, they're not. They're not a free thinker. They're extremely organized. To a scary degree. To a scary degree, yes. Not that I'm comparing all three of you to, like, serial killers, but... I mean, when you look at that end result, you have to tell yourself, this isn't the first time they've done this. Exactly. It seems way too prepared. So they also opened the vegetable crisper and found two heads and

that is how they knew this these were the bodies of fred and edwina rogers how big was the vegetable crisper must have been pretty damn big or maybe they had two drawers oh yeah we have two in our fridge but i don't think you'd be a hard fit to shove a head in there yeah yeah probably not maybe i don't know everything's bigger i'm like maybe the vegetable that's true yeah so unfortunately their organs were nowhere to be found so they had all the like limbs and things like that but they could not find the insides of the bodies so edwina had been actually shot in the head and fred had been bludgeoned to death with a hammer the killer had then dragged their bodies to the bathroom where they were drained of blood chopped into pieces and stacked neatly in the fridge and according to the medical examiner as we've already guessed this was pretty

meticulous and organized by someone who knew what they were doing and a search for the missing organs first turned up empty until a few days later when they turned up in a nearby sewer and they figured out they had been flushed down the toilet oh i didn't see that coming i thought i did not either a black market selling the organs nope just in Oh, God. I am surprised that all went down. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like a lot to happen in one afternoon. Like, what's the biggest organ?

And also how, like, how maybe liver, the brain, that they cut that up. Well, the heads were in the head was. Yeah. Oh, that's true. I was thinking just from neck to parts. But just a lot of like putting your intestines in the toilet. And I was going to say again, though, this clearly is a person that knows that that is a you can do that or they're a risk taker or they're a risk taker. But that it seems very prior knowledge prior.

Yeah. I was going to say for maybe the organs weren't even I mean, I guess they were so meticulous. I would think that they were prepared, but maybe they got to the organs and they're like oh i didn't even and they're already in the bathroom and they were like well i guess this works could be um so as for the crime scene itself shockingly it was nearly immaculate the home had been cleaned after the murders and there was barely any blood to be found which i think to me is the most shocking part yeah then again this person... All over the floor, so I don't know. So what little blood was discovered

led to the bedroom of none other than Fred and Edwina's 43-year-old son, Charles Rogers. Oh. So Charles himself was a very smart cookie. He spoke seven languages. He had a degree in nuclear physics and he worked as a pilot in the navy before serving in the office of naval intelligence but despite his career success he had

recently abruptly quit his job without any explanation in 1957 and became a recluse according to houstonia magazine and after quitting his job he moved in with his parents and only communicated with them via notes slipped under the bedroom door. He's struggling with something. He's struggling. He would tell them when he wanted food and they would bring into his room. And yeah, so he actually had a hot plate in his attic bedroom and a collection of ham radios and some clothes. But that's all they could find.

They also found a bloody keyhole saw nearby uh that they assumed to be like the tool used to dismember the body wow um yeah so no sign of no sign of charles no sign of charles poof gone left all his shit behind uh so once police had zeroed in on charles um an international manhunt commenced because as you just suggested, he had left all his precious hot plates behind and disappeared. And he's a pilot. If we're profiling who did this, it's somebody that

is meticulous and a physicist and a pilot are very meticulous. Yes. And voluntary. Wow. They probably think things through. Yeah. Also, I would think as a pilot you know you can fly away from the situation yes yeah you know how to leave we talked about that which one were some episode we were just like you could just get in a plane and go wherever you want probably

didn't oh yeah it was you could just if you have if you have if you have a plane yeah if you have a license in a plane good point yeah and i bet back then i mean nowadays i'm i feel like most places are probably more meticulous about like who's leaving the air air strip if you go to like a small airport though a lot of times the pilots they leave their keys in the plane which is crazy to me figure well people don't know how to turn them on it's like it's not that it's a crank engine it's you gotta there's some levers and whatnot and things you gotta move it to where it's in the right spot but it's for the most part you know how to do it yeah reasonably similar yeah across planes one of my friends i mean nowadays i i guess planes are different but my one of my best friends is a

pilot and he's been like literally planes are the key to start a plane is literally like a car key like yeah it's like commercial airline like he flies yeah i don't know about personal planes but i i that fun fact by the way that just shocks me that like you get on a delta plane and someone's just turning on the addiction like they're like car where's the keys you got them you didn't put them on the hook they go on the key hook they have always that's half the time planes are late it's because they didn't put the keys back they didn't know where the keys just like me because somebody got to put your tracker on it so you can find it i was literally about to say they're they're like looking around with their phones so yeah he had disappeared

potentially in an airplane and spoiler alert for the end he has never been found or seen again that sounds like the end but it is far from it because it turns out at some point during his post-naval career as, by the way, a seismologist for Shell Oil Company. So he also worked as an expert in, I guess, plate tectonics. I don't know. Earthquakes. I have no clue. Seismology. He had met a man named Fred Ferry, who would later be suspected of involvement in the plot to assassinate President John F. Kennedy.

It all comes back together he's always the i feel like always the the thing in the middle the man that invented the shrimp dart that took out jfk we love a good jfk conspiracy they're right on the street for where he was assassinated oh there you go oh yeah we're just 10 minutes away from it. On my first date with Paris, we were in the West End and we like had our first kiss and he's like, do you want to walk around downtown?

I was like, we are like a block from the Grassy Knoll. And he was like, oh, OK, yeah, we can go there. How romantic. Why?

It's just like, you've got to show all your cards to that person. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was like, I want to go to the Grassy Knoll and talk about theories.

Do you know about the JFK theory with Q q anon are you familiar with i heard repeat it though he so they think so q anon just like super short logline version of this we did three episodes on it oh i haven't listened to them oh did you oh yeah we didn't we did i think just one episode we did one but it was a while back we We did an entire month of JFK stuff. Oh, okay. Well, so QAnon is like the anonymous Redditor who apparently is like giving secrets from the government out to the world.

And a lot of people think that that is JFK. And a lot of people also think that JFK, first of all, never died. He was in hiding. And now he is actually Donald Trump trump's right hand man and is going to propel him back into the presidency and he's doing all the behind the scenes campaigning right now that we don't know about like it's one thing to say that was jfk jr but jfk first of all would be a thousand years old yeah and there was very well kept records that his body was

dying i mean he was ill he had all kinds of stuff wrong with him. They injected him with like amniotic fluid. They were injecting him with like all kinds of uppers and downers. Yeah, he was he was having a rough time. So if I did when we were doing the Princess Diana episodes, I went down this tick tock hole where they were like, Princess Diana is really alive. And then I was like, OK, I can like kind

of get behind this. And they were like, and she lives on an island. I was like, hmm, like with JFK. And I was like, all we go it always comes back and then it was like and then it was q and they're like and they're fighting the global elite and i was like all right i'm down on your lizard person too yeah i'm down the wrong tiktok hole right there i had to pull myself the best of us jfk conspiracies are like six degrees of kevin bacon like very quickly it gets it gets back to jfk yeah i mean really like you're just reading this murder and it's like anyway also he was never

found again but maybe he murdered jfk there it is but maybe anybody did i don't know it's houston so it's ted cruz's dad that was it right yes exactly just somehow linked to this i'm sure but so yeah they said uh he had met this guy who would actually be suspected of involvement in the plot like he was actually investigated and so remember how i said he had like become a recluse all of a sudden and had quit his job so some people believe that it was so it was right around that time that jfk was assassinated and they believe maybe he had some sort of involvement was trying to hide and there's a book called The Man on the Grassy Knoll by John R. Craig and Philip A. Rogers. And they argue now just this is a lot.

Just a warning. I'm sure we all know it's going to be a lot. But they argue that Charles was a CIA agent until the mid 80s, having helped murder John F. Kennedy before hiding out in his parents home. They also argue that Fred and Edwina had been listening in on his phone calls. And as in every cliche spy novel, they knew too much. So they had to be killed. But then I'm like, and also chopped up into pieces and flushed down the toilet. It seems like it falls apart for me, the theory. But yeah, it seems to why wouldn't you just fake a home invasion? And if you work for the

cia you'd think they'd be able to kind of pull that off or like they put ricin in their tea i just watch breaking bad yes exactly but you know something where i would just make them disappear as opposed to making it the complete opposite opposite of that yes and especially if you murder jfk like don't you think you could murder your own parents and get hide the bodies or like yeah or just fake it so it looks like they're old like they're older people and you put ricin in it they just look like heart attack there was a murder in dallas that was like that where older people were dying and it just everyone just assumed that it was just old age well it turns out it was a serial killer but it it's because nobody they didn't immediately

suspect it was a serial killer because nobody's body was chopped up and disposed of in this really gruesome way suspicious right yeah it's less suspicious because they were just kind of found in their beds or found on their couches and they're like oh their heart gave out or something yeah but in this case it's very clearly a third party actor came in it wasn't a physical ailment that took them out so if he was some cia spy he was terrible at his job very bad also like if your whole thing is you just want to get I'm assuming you he wanted to get away with this why would you leave all of their body in the freezer and yeah like why wouldn't you just put that on a duffel bag and take it on the plane with you and burn it somewhere like take it to wherever you go and hide out yeah put it down the toilet oh wait

I guess it doesn't work either I don't know um that theory to me falls apart a bit but whatever what do i know not much uh so another perhaps more plausible theory was put forth in 1997 by forensic accountant hugh gardner and his wife martha and they wrote a book called the icebox murders and they did actually acknowledge that they believe charles did have dealings with the cia which actually has been documented. So he did have an association with the CIA. Nobody's sure like how deep it went, but he did have some sort of connection. And also he worked for like Shell Oil and the Navy.

So who knows? Like, I don't know. I'm sure he was in the global elite. He was a lizard person, probably. He was a lizard person, probably. And they argued that he didn't kill his parents for secret spy reasons, but because he had suffered a lot of abuse at their hands growing up. And they argue that Charles was emotionally and physically abused by his father throughout childhood. And once again, when he moved home as a quote unquote recluse, that the abuse continued. And I think this holds some water.

I mean, there's a lot of evidence that they laid forth in their book but um one of the things that like kind of makes this a little more believable is that uh the investigators determined charles's parents had been killed on father's day of all days plus the father's body had been uh very specifically attacked in a way like the hammer first of all and the genitals were cut off oh yeah dramatically that's personal and then the mom was just shot and like killed that way um but the dad was just very personal and very um yeah i mean his privates were removed so yeah i'm close and silent well i mean it's like we covered the menendez brothers and you

know it doesn't absolve somebody but it maybe gives you a little bit of an insight into why and especially i think those connections if we're again we're profiling the person and that happened to the body that type of intimate interaction it sounds more like it was deep-seated grudge or yeah especially if then it was different with the mom it's like yeah just switch weapons and well she just happened to be there or something versus his real target on father's day with his dad that that makes a little bit more sense. Instant kill, wanted nothing to do with it, like just get it over with versus this really intimate experience.

Yeah. So they argue that the Rogers murder and mutilation were a result of years of abuse. So that's their theory. But it doesn't end there because they also believe the Gardners had been defrauding their son after he moved home. And it turns out they were forging his signature to take out loans in his name before pocketing the money oh and like buying property under his name and so there was just a lot behind their relationship that was like really toxic and fucked up yeah yeah it's financial abuse in addition to all the other kind of abuse. I was going to say that's also abuse. Normally you see when the parents are older and there's an adult child, it's the opposite, right?

Like the adult child is taking out loans in mom and dad's name. But especially if it was from his childhood on and maybe if he was struggling with something, that's why he came home. Right, right. They were like, he's up in his room. He's on his ham radio. He's not going to know. And they took advantage of him and he lashed out. I was going to say that, too, because if he yeah, he came home clearly like after serving in the Navy and clearly had. Yeah. Some sort of going through something. Yeah. Yeah.

Some sort of issues going on. And that abuse had been established at an early age. They've kind of already, you know, set the precedence like this is how you're treated. This is how we're going to treat you. If on first blush, you say, oh, he didn't even talk to his parents. He just slipped him notes. You might go, well, that's weird. But if you're trying to save yourself and create boundaries, I'm not apologizing for this person cutting his parents up. But the behavior up until that is at least somewhat explainable.

But I think, yeah, it sounds like you might not want any interaction with them for fear of what would happen. I'm so glad I didn't make the comment earlier then because when you first said like they were slipping notes to each other, I was like, wow, I really like how supportive this family is of like he clearly like needs some space and they're letting him have his moment.

Sometimes that happens with Evan and me and I'm like, just don't continue that. Just give it a tick. It makes so much more sense now that he was just trying to set a boundary in a very toxic environment. And on the flip side, they're trying to get his handwriting and his signature so they can buy land in his name. Yeah.

Take his money and shit. Yeah. And he had a hot plate in there. He had radios. He was like trying to distance himself. So, you know, whether that had anything to do with it or not, I think this is one of those cases where it sounds really wild to say he was a CIA spy and he killed JFK and flew away in a plane. But then like the reality of like a background of abuse and mental health issues, just it's not as glamorous, but it's also like equally fucked up. Yeah. financial abuse on top of everything else that Charles fled to Mexico, probably in his plane

after the murders, eventually ending up in Honduras, where he was killed over a wage dispute with minors, not minors, children. Am I in the IRS? Yeah. Very different. But what information do they have to make them think that, you know, them think that you know witness testimony so okay it's very much like this story actually it was called by houston press and publishers weekly separately both called it fact-based fiction and supposition so even the book itself is not considered like really factual so it's hard to say like whether how much of this he disappeared so yeah you know it is i'll just hear say after that yeah the idea of writing a book and just going this is what i think about a factual thing stresses me out without calling it a novel absolutely yeah it makes christy

said it makes her eye twitch it makes my ass pucker like i'm like i can't i need to work emma i would write 18 pages of apology like you really don't know anything about what we're saying I'm like I need footnotes yeah it's such a specific theory with no real backing yeah yeah some of it did like the financial stuff had backing and some of the abuse stuff was pretty well documented the miners the miners thing is pretty much like a little shady of like i guess that could have happened i mean it could have happened just as a lot of things could have happened yeah i mean exactly you know they were really like i was convinced the whole way you are like if

anything this is the the theory i'm running with and then you had to throw the miners thing in with like no real facts i'm like it gets a little it's yeah it stops being as, I don't know, believable. Sensationalized? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So regardless, we may never really know what happened to the Rogers. It is still pretty mysterious, but Charles never showed up again, dead or alive. And despite the manhunt, they could never find any sort of real leads as to where he went. He was declared legally dead in July of 1975.

And technically, the murders of Fred and Edina rogers remains unsolved to this day and their charles son charles is still the only suspect so wow this cold case will probably stay cold but wow could they tell when they found the bodies how long they'd been there uh yeah so they they guessed it was that that they had been killed on father's day i don't know that's right and it was only it was end of june so it's okay so a couple weeks maybe a week or so yeah but if they're in the refrigerator they wouldn't smell yeah which again is is kind of planning and thinking ahead but i mean if you're in the CIA, you might have knowledge like that of just how to

handle those types of situations. And maybe you know, maybe make sure bills and stuff are paid. So it wasn't until someone calls and they don't answer that. Yeah. Until Marvin Mill, whatever his name is. Marvin Marlin. He has 10 days, two weeks to get

away to before exactly find him. Yeah. Where it's not suspicious to just go to the airfield. And a lot of neighbors apparently didn't even know he was living there. Like that's how distant he was. Like he barely ever left the house. Like people just didn't see him. So a lot of neighbors were like shocked to learn he had even been living in the attic.

So he really was kind of hidden from sight. The low profile. Yeah. And no one heard heard anything no one heard a gunshot or anything screams wow no i don't hear the cia you made it you know do a pillow or something like that that's true silencer you know that i i wonder i mean had nobody gone looking for them how long would gone looking for them how long would that have just been sitting there you know yikes man yeah yikes what a case good job this is what we do and then we end on a really downer note every week i go second and it's always just a real bummer so i really loved your birthday one when uh m covered the the fake well i don't know spoilers well i guess i should listen in order but we always yell at people for listening backwards we're like i don't listen in

order makes sense yeah um but it was such a good like big laugh and you're like anyway there's a massacre yeah and then like so this is awkward m i didn't really put my head for your birthday great i don't know why because the the only reason we do it is because in the first episode we were like who should go first and i just went i guess i will i was too nervous i was like you go you go and now it's just become a thing where like really in hindsight i should have not that like ghosts and like torture tortured inmates is a good thing but at least there's like some sort of potential laugh factor with like the crawler it just tends to be lighter than or people just think oh this isn't real like people that don't believe in ghosts are like oh it's not real a

silly ghost or whatever exactly it's like a cryptid it's less like sinister you guys are ending on a joke i know it should end on a joke of the week yeah joke of the week for a while we were doing um horoscopes at the end oh that, that was fun. For my dog or something. We tried everything. We tried it all. We did horoscopes for a minute. People were like, this sucks. We went to the psychic fair. Yeah.

I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We went to the psychic fair for a while, but yeah. Well, I mean, we're glad to be here. Oh, so glad. Whatever. Thank you guys so much for having us. And thank you for being on our show too.

For sure. I think our episode, because we release on Wednesday and y you for being on our show too i think our episode because we release on wednesday and y'all release on sunday yeah and we'll go sunday so ours will come out with you guys first this wednesday perfect and so no one will hear this until after so it really doesn't matter that i'm saying so we're like working it's already out so if you're hearing this first it's already out go listen oh yeah and then the printer the printer inside joke yeah you'll get it yes you'll get that call back yes so it was a terry carnation worthy call oh that means so much you'll get it all by listening to our episode yeah where where can people find you or what social media is all that good stuff you

can find us on facebook and twitter at sinisterhoodhood Pod. I'm sorry, on Instagram and Twitter at Sinisterhood Pod and on Facebook at Sinisterhood. Christy, where are you at on the computer? I am on Instagram at Christy M. Wallace and I'm on Twitter at Christy or GTFO. Heather, where are you? I am on Twitter at MCK versus the world and on Instagram at Heather versus the

world and all other good Sinisterhood stuff is at S-I-N-I-S-T-E-R H-O-O-D dot com-t-e-r-h-o-o-d.com it's like sisterhood but sinister but like clever yeah but like yeah and they do a better sign off on our show than we do on our show are you are you ready to watch us do our sign off we could not be more excited we love everything you do yes ready christ Yep. And that's why we drink. you you you you you you you