And That's Why We Drink - E237 The Ghost With No Pants and a Matchmaking Serial Killer

Episode Date: August 22, 2021

Paint us like one of your French aliens, Jack... this week episode 237 has us traveling to Em's favorite place of all time, Canada, for the Falcon Lake Incident. Then Christine brings us a story that's less about teeth than it seems in the tale of the Killing Dentist aka Glennon Engleman aka a serial killer with a hobby career as a dentist. And lastly, stay to the very end to hear just exactly how to impress Em with a skateboard and a pair of moon boots... and that's why we drink! Please consider supporting the companies that support us! If you go to Reliefband.com and use promo code DRINK you’ll receive 20% off plus free shipping and a no questions asked 30-day money back guarantee!Helix is offering up to $200 off all mattress orders AND two free pillows for our listeners at Helix Sleep.com/drinkTry 5 pairs of glasses at home for free at warbyparker.com/drinkDownload the 5 star-rated puzzle game, Best Fiends FREE today on the App Store or Google Play!Go to Framebridge.com and use promo code DRINK to save an additional 15% off your first order!

sweet sweet we're so easily amused oh my god my God. I really do love that sound. It gets me so jazzed. And I don't, yeah, I don't know what it's about. But every time I hear, I'm like, oh, shit, it's going down. Oh, Amethy, I miss you. I miss you. Have I talked to you in a while? I don't remember anymore.

Probably, but like it never, I feel like we just kind of lose track of uh time we go we go through spurts for people wondering if we're just like always talking to each other we go through spurts of talking non-fucking-stop and then we go through spurts where it's like i probably have not heard from you in like five days it's like manic phases where we like can't stop telling each other everything and it'll be like 4 a.m and i'll be like also this and then yeah there'll be like or like i'll i like to i like to facetime christine when i'm peeing so yeah emmy used to accuse me of calling when they were peeing and now it's like guess what you did but then it it made me feel safe so then i started doing it it's a patlovian response every time you tinkle you're like time to call christine every every

time i make peeps i'm like i just gotta think of christine but yeah now i now i facetime you and that's what i tell you all my drama and it's a good time time it's potty time it's my favorite time yeah i love potty time anyway emothy why do you drink this week i know you told me to ask and i'm very intrigued um although well i was intrigued and then you were like it's a story about my glasses and i was like oh boy here we go it's not even that interesting but I just I mean I know that's kind of why I'm not as thrilled as I was hoping it's a mundane thing to be upset about at least to me but my I've had these glasses for I can't even tell you how long and they're just getting to

the point where they are nearly unusable like i'm currently looking through like clouds right now to be able to see like it's just my lenses are so fucking scratched and like i just need new glasses and i'm not looking forward to the process because it's an expensive process because i have the the special need special like eye needs yeah i do have special eye needs i have uh yeah i wear trifals, which means there are three individual prescription lenses on each side of my eye. And so they're very, very, very pricey, which means I'm going to have to commit to like,

I got to go get my vision tested a million times to make sure that each prescription is right before they put them on the glasses. And then might as well go find new frames but then then i have like my adhd overwhelms like do i stick with what i know and feel safe with or do i get a whole new pair of glasses because since i have trifocals i gotta commit to this frame these frames for like five years and it's it's a lot so anyway i'm i'm struggling currently well if you want you can go back and listen to the episode that I remember very clearly editing, which I believe was our crossover with Wine and Crime, where you complained

about your glasses falling apart, where you needed new glasses. So maybe you can go back and listen and get inspired about the cycle of how these glasses tend to go for you. We probably weren't even that close with Wine and Crime yet. And that's just what they remember me talking about. It's just so funny because I remember they were telling some wild tale story some like wild tale and then it was like my glasses are so embarrassed no don't be i just remember editing it down and being like wow they probably were like um is this is this is this leads to your drinking problem everybody well speaking of wine and crime

it is kenyan's birthday. I know. I know. Didn't you see her for Fourth of July? Yes. We never heard about this. I don't know why I never talked about that. She visited with her husband because they moved to Kentucky the week I moved to Kentucky. I moved from L.A. to Kentucky. She moved from South Africa to Kentucky. And we both moved the same week.

And, like, we had no clue. It was so bizarre. I just remember being like, this is the weirdest coincidence of all time. What was the hangout like had no clue it was so bizarre i just remember being like this is the weirdest coincidence of all what was the hangout like oh it was so fun they came up for fourth of july um i had a little barbecue and my family was it was i felt kind of bad because i was like oh so renee got sick so she didn't make it so i was like it's like my family so come over and hang out with my family but it was super fun um and they were great and i served wine and crime wine so i was like kenyan my wine has your your face on it like that's how it was a little much

probably but she brought her dog josie and josie and geo are really similar looking so they were like little twins um it was very fun and we just wished you were there and the other wine and crimers were there well missed you apparently Amanda and Lucy had FOMO. And so after they found out that y'all were going to hang out, they like drunkenly FaceTimed me when I was in Vegas. So we were all together in spirit. Oh, that's funny. Also, what weird. I don't think I've ever realized how many similarities the two of you have.

We're like, it run a true crime podcast. You have a very similar dog. You moved to Kentucky from a far distance. Yes. It's weird, right? And then I don't need to air anybody's personal stuff online, but we had some very similar things that happened last year that were personal health issues. And so it's just a very weird...

I feel like we had never met up one-on-one before and it was very much like i don't know we were like in the same like headspace she's probably like no kirsteen stop she's like i'm not coming back no but it was really fun um and oh they were they're coming back i don't need to tell everybody when they're coming back but they're coming back soon uh to cincinnati oh yeah and they came up to go to ikea which is hilarious because like we have a big ikea here um but i used to do that in virginia our ikea was an hour away yeah because we are i like never thought of it growing up as like oh we're a special place with an ikea but it's true like there's not one anywhere else around um but so they came up for an ikea for a trip and um

they're coming up again for like a i think a bengals game and a reds game or something and we live like again i'm triangulating myself but i live like walking distance from both stadiums and i was like this is gonna be there's a lot okay they're downtown there's a lot of options from walking okay but girl but they're girlie i can't stop i can't stop um but they're coming and i was so frustrated because it's the exact weekend i'm going to connecticut for um my beautiful mother in law's hosting a baby shower which i'm so excited about and it's so special because i'm going to see all the siblings that we haven't seen because of covid and like it's just going to be really nice but yeah so i'm going to be out of town when they come back but you know they'll be here so it'll be fun

anyway that's all uh i don't really have any other reason i drink except that um you know it's just i feel really i feel like a circus tent i had a maternity photo shoot yesterday emothy and what does that mean like a photo shoot like i know but like how do they pose you like oh just like like engagement photos like i know but like how do they pose you like oh just like like engagement photos except i have a large stomach i don't know there's only one difference i know i had a prop so she was like well at least you can put your hand somewhere and i was like that's a really good point um was it weird so here's the thing here's here's my thing yeah when it comes to professional photography right i'm not i'm not for it because

i get i get really stage fright obviously but also i get so in my head about it that it doesn't feel natural at all i already think about like if allison and i ever get married and we have to have like engagement photos or even photos at the wedding yeah like i feel i would get so nervous at how unnatural they feel like was this like a session where like she made you where they made you feel like super comfy yeah i mean i feel like if if you go with someone who you don't like i don't know feel comfortable talking to or connecting with maybe it's weird but i don't know i mean i think a professional photographer gets a vibe of like this is what your comfort level is you're not the kind of person like I'm not the kind of person who wants to stand in a field of like sunflowers with like a robe you know and like showing my stomach like

that's not my jam so I found a photographer online I'm sure they'll I'll tag them on Instagram but where they were just like very casual very like down to earth like the photos are all kind of just people like it's not super cheesy do you know what i mean i'm i'm thinking i'm thinking sunflowers with no no no no i don't do that i can't i mean i would have been i mean let's pose this where i was like this is really embarrassing and she was like i know just do it for a minute like it'll turn out better than you think and i very much appreciate when photographers are like this is gonna feel real stupid she was very upfront about stuff like that like just she was like lean in blaze i know she's sweaty and i was like okay we don't need to

talk about my sweat no i i mean let's put it this way like when i even think about like engagement or wedding pictures or i i'm only using those because i can't even conceptualize another reason i would be a professional i know when i was uncomfortable the whole time but not because like not because the photographer did anything just because I hate being in front of a camera but like even remember I showed you the picture from when I went to Vegas with Allison and we were in the gondola yes oh that was funny but that was weird that was awkward I mean that was made to be awkward like I guess someone there was a professional photographer there and I guess since you're in a gondola it's supposed to look all romantic and they're like oh give each other

a kiss and like we had literally never kissed in front of a camera before in four years and we were so uncomfortable and that picture just like blew my like we intentionally looked so uncomfortable because we didn't know what else to do so we made an awkward joke out of it but then i think of like what happens when we get married everyone's like take a picture of you kissing and i'm like you just tell them i don't want to photo of us kissing and they're like okay like you're hiring me if you don't want a photo of you kissing i mean yeah i feel like i feel like it's just all about communication like i don't know i think she just got a i got a vibe from the photographer she got a vibe for me it was sort of like we're not doing the whole cheesy

like lying down in an angelic outfit, whatever. Like, that's just not me. Oh, I didn't hear any of that. Because I started speaking about lying down in a field. And I was like, I'm unplugging my headphones now. I don't want to hear any of this. I don't blame you.

That was God. He was like, you don't need this. God was like, you have glasses problems. That's enough for you. No, but anyway, I'm glad your photo shoot went well. But I like immediately just like. I hope it went well, question mark. She said it went well.

I just break into a sweat whenever I think about like being put on the spot like that. Even if it's like in a comfortable. Don't get me wrong. I was nervous. It was out of my. There's nothing comfortable about like being. Because we also took the photos downtown where the wedding was um so it was like in front of the same building which is

kind of cute so it was like all the same spots where we had wedding photos that actually makes it very sweet oh wow that's so cool thank you it was uh it was kind of it was 98 degrees out and it was uh humid as fuck but you know otherwise it was fun time uh oh good i also wore high heels and blaze was like this is the dumbest thing you've ever done and i was like five minutes later i was like you're absolutely right you chose that for yourself here's the thing i all my rossies are fun colors so it didn't match my dress so i had to wear i had to find shoes that were like plain um and they were they were uncomfortable but anyway i'll post those on instagram eventually when they come in but hopefully unless they're just really unflattering, which I don't know.

She seemed to know what she was doing. So I don't think they would be. Seemed to be on her game. Yeah. Anyway, I want to hear a story. Sorry to ask. I will tell you one. Sorry to ask you so many questions.

No, I appreciate it. I hear professional photography. And I'm like, how did you make that not awkward for yourself? Because I can't get out of that mental block. What you think when we had like the wedding photographer was that super weird or not I only had to be in like I only remember being in like three pictures so it wasn't even I think you were in a lot of group pictures which maybe is less uncomfortable yeah if it was just the two of us over and over I would be there were some cute photos of us though that I've like never really gone through because I have like 2,000 photos but there's some cute photos of us though that i've like never really gone through because i have like 2 000 photos but there's some cute ones of us that i should post or pull out or show you or

something i think i just recently sent you my favorite picture from from your wedding but it was like a complete candid there's no way someone could have captured that if we knew it was happening but for the professional pictures do i have it i have it near me it's the one that you framed yes somewhere around here i like that one a lot drinking yeah good times i know i that's that's one of my favorite pictures of us but also that was candid i think that was one of the pictures where they said like you're gonna look stupid but do this and i really appreciated it i they know what they're doing you know i just kind of have to trust them okay here's your story christine um also i'm preparing you now because whatever dark shit you're about to talk about in the second half of this i would like to know what the size of your baby is because it's all i have

to comfort me i'm going oh you wouldn't know you want to know afterward or now i want to know after like so we can end on a high so we'll like, we only have a few weeks left of this plan. So we'll lean into it for now. Yeah. We'll lean into it and then we'll have to find something else to size. Yeah. Fantastic. Okay.

So here's your story, sweet Christine. Here it is. Aw. Aw. Aw. Aw. Aw. Aw.

Aw. Aw. Aw. Aw. Aw. Aw. Aw. Aw.

Aw. Aw. I actually called you gross on TikTok live last night. What? What? What's TikTok live? What? Like I was on live, like, live streaming on TikTok live last night. Wait, what? What's TikTok live? What? Like I was on live, like live streaming on TikTok.

What? I always miss your fun adventures. I was playing hangman. And one of the things I did was Christina's gross. You are a big butthead. That's my next hangman. Okay, here for you. It's not cowboys, but it's the other half of that.

What is your favorite? What's your favorite stories? yes okay yay go alien ufos tried to find a cowboy it did not happen but i was able to mix it well with one of my favorite things canada so okay here we go fun um this is the falcon lake incident what's that like m takes a sip of their tea to like have my reaction framed between silence dramatic pause yep yep yep okay so this first of all i want to give a huge shout out to a podcast i ended up actually just reading the transcript and so i didn't actually hear i didn't hear what it was called it's it's the ufos at either lac or the ufos at lack because they would like say the

word okay so i don't know which one it is but that podcast is pretty much most of my notes so um thank you so much like they nailed it they had their oh that's the name of the podcast it's the name of the podcast ufos at lac or ufos at lac okay but they had their they had it was a two-part episode for the falcon lake incident and they had interviewed actual witnesses and like key witnesses whoa and they had complete transcripts of the whole thing so it was easy to just read through the interviews and get a lot of information so shout out to them and i'm only covering a scratch this of the surface so please go listen if you are interested so the falcon lake incident is in manitoba canada yay which i have three fun facts for you about manitoba canada one of the uh fun facts one and

two is that it is the polar bear capital and the slurpee capital wait that's so fun wait a second i just got it the icy polar bear whoa i don't know if i got anything but i connected them in my head no i took like the little Oh, that makes total sense. I don't know. I see from Manitoba, maybe. Oh, my goodness. Well, it did say Slurpee. So I'm imagining that's like 7-Eleven.

But maybe Slurpee came out and Icy was like, I'm going to be your competitor and use our animal. You know, I don't know. There could be some real drama there that we could unpack. animal you know i don't know there could be some real drama there that we could unpack um fun fact number three is that this story also takes place specifically in winnipeg manitoba where winnie the pooh is named after i didn't know that fine did you know that i have like a really deep-seated obsession with winnie the pooh um childhood. Interesting. When I was a kid, I had a deep-seated obsession with Tigger. Aww. Yeah, I had all the old books,

like the old, old versions and all the original. I don't like the newer Disney adapt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like the original classic ones. And I got the baby a bunch of little swaddles that have the map of the Hundred Acre Wood wood and it says like

eeyore's sad place that's precious i was gonna say you liked poo i like tigger and i guarantee we're both eeyore are we but just we tried to ignore it but like we were both eeyore all along yeah um gender is a construct so it doesn't matter that he was a boy but i had the biggest crush on rabbit and also the fact that Rabbit had like severe OCD. I was like, I can respect this guy. I can respect him. I was like, stop messing with his carrots, everybody. Like Jesus, he's asking politely to set some boundaries.

I thought he like just hung the moon. I thought he was so cool. That's very precious. Also, if anyone goes back and watches my like number one favorite show from like kindergarten to second grade, Little Bear. Little Bear.

I had such a big crush on Cat. Wait, didn't we just talk about Little Bear? I feel like I brought up Little Bear like three weeks ago. Oops. Probably. I don't know if I mentioned it last time, but I had the biggest crush on Cat. You didn't mention it. I'm so glad to know.

Who was also a boy. Look at you. Well, actually, it was a cat so i don't know that that matters it doesn't matter it doesn't matter it was a cat i mean i also had a crush on kovu from lion king 2 the scars nephew or whatever i don't know if i ever saw lion king 2 i was too traumatized by lion king 1 you would have a very large crush on kovu i promise you okay i think we could agree on one thing just go look him up real quick just go look how do you spell that k-o-v-u uh tell me six-year-old you wouldn't have lost your fucking mind like fill in the blank

on google was like as a human so clearly people have tried to make fan art. Oh, this is a thing. Like, people love Kovu. Oh, he's cute. He's a hottie. For a lion? Yeah. I'm not, I mean, you know, I'm just saying. Kovu, kindergarten me, he was a smoke show. That's a smoke show! Okay.

Don't look up Kovu as a human. It got weird pretty fast. I am not surprised all the people who loved kovu as a child ended up like getting like fan fiction pages yeah yeah okay here we go so winnie the pooh was named after winnipeg okay that's fun i did not know that so the falcon lake incident is one of the most famous cases probably the most famous case in canada uh it is one of the top ufo cases out there and it's been uh on several tv shows and had a bunch of reenactments and things like that but it's probably most famed show it was on was the original unsolved mysteries

classic so and which by the way was season five. Nice. At least the version I saw on YouTube was that. So May 1967 is where this takes place, my friend. And the main character to our story could have different pronunciations to his name. Because in BuzzFeed Unsolved, they called him Stefan Mohalik. And in Unsolved Mysteries from the 60s, they called him Stephen Michalak. Oh, wow. Both are different. Okay.

So Stephen Michalak or Stefan Mihalik, but it's the same spelling, different pronunciations. I'm going to run with Stephen Michalak because even the key witnesses say that the Unsolved Mysteries retelling of the story is the most accurate one that they ever saw. Okay. So I feel like they at least heard the name Stephen Michalak and they were like that's fine. That works. We'll take it. So Stephen is 51. This is May 1967. Stephen is 51. He's a mechanic from Winnipeg, but he often went to the Falcon Lake Woods because of his interest in geology. And I guess over there they had a lot of quartz. And apparently if there's quartz, there's also potential for nickel and gold. He also was out there looking for silver.

And Fawn Lake Woods was just, I guess, scattered with it. So he went on a little geology excursion. He left really early, like 530 in the morning. And this is a quote from him. Stephen says that when he went to Falcon Lake Woods that morning, he, quote, brought a hammer, a map, a compass, paper and pencil and a little food to see me through the day also wearing a light jacket against the morning chill the day was bright sunny not a cloud in the sky it seemed like another ordinary day but events which were

to take place within the next six hours were to change my entire life for more than anyone could ever imagine i will never forget may 20th 1967 whoa whoa what okay so while out in the woods it all starts with geese as it always does it always does doesn't it just honking around always honking so he hears a sound nearby and it's a bunch of geese that have apparently been startled by something and when he looks around to see what it was he sees two objects in the sky one of them was cylindrical or both of them were cylindrical with humps on them and they glowed this really bright scarlet red and the objects apparently as they got closer to him they switched from being more cylinder shaped to more oval shaped so So I guess they got more egg shaped. Yeah. And as they got closer to him, one of them stopped moving in the sky. The other one

that did not stop moving in the sky and kept getting closer and closer to him, eventually landed nearby on this kind of rock path or this brush area. And at same time the one in the sky is hovering and not moving it's just hovering above them and eventually takes off meanwhile the one that landed starts changing colors in front of him dear it starts turning from like a red to a silver to like it's got gold all around it now. Like it's got like an outline. Oh. And Stephen says that after like realizing what he was paying attention to and what he was seeing, he very quickly went into like remember every detail mode

so that way he could like try to not forget this. Yes, love that. So smart. He did say that the machine, and I feel like we just covered this with a different UFO story, but he said that he remembers it not looking like it had any joints welded into it,

like it had been pieces put together. He said it looked more like one massive piece of steel had kind of been chipped away, so there was one solid object. That is weird. Which someone else has also just said in a recent story that it looked like really weirdly smooth steel okay so he said the same thing he also said that there was this warm sulfur smell coming out of it it also sounded like a machine was kind of whirring around and he started looking for any identification marks to see like is this a military craft is this

smart is it a language i don't know and uh eventually i guess he like i don't know bonded with this craft to a point where he felt like he could like sit down and just hang out next to it so okay he sat down next to it and with the kit he had with his paper and pen he started drawing the ufo the best he could. Like he just, I guess, thought like, oh, it doesn't look like it's moving or no one's coming out. I guess I'm just going to sit here with it and sketch it out. Sketch it. Paint me like one of your French aliens.

I don't know. So after he sketched it, he sketched it for like a good 30 minutes. Oh, wow. This is a full session. Full portrait session. This was no stick figure UFO. This was like he drew out like he tried to draw different sections of it so that we could get like almost a 360 scope of it. I mean. He.

Yeah. So he was on it. And eventually he walks up after he's done drawing, I guess. He got curious and walked up to the ufo and he saw this part i didn't see in the interview transcript but i did see in the episode of unsolved mysteries and again they all said that this was a very accurate retelling so i'm gonna run with it that uh he walked up to the ufo and the door opens all of a sudden there's like a hatch that opens up and inside is this bright ass glowing purple light coming from inside and apparently it's so bright that it's making him see like spots you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah he started hearing like little faint voices in there or

maybe it was like some sort of high-pitched machinery he didn't recognize but he thought people might be in there um and so he started getting nervous and he shouted at the UFO the sentence, OK, Yankee boys having trouble. Come on out and we'll see what we can do about it. Which like Yankee, because like it's in the sky and therefore north. I don't understand. I don't think that's how north works i don't understand but he said okay yankee boy is having trouble come on out and we'll see what we can do about it apparently he got no response and so he repeated this in polish which i love the

wait what sorry that was the what's the yankee word for or polish word for yankee that's quite i was gonna say i was like why are we i feel I feel like if Yankee isn't getting a response in English, it's probably not going to get a response in Polish. No, I imagine not. But what do I know? He then also started speaking Russian. And then he also said it again in German. Okay. Okay.

So he's at least trying to cover all his bases. It's not just like Polish and English. It's like trying to cover the European ground. It's just running through the languages here. what a what a power flex uh because we also we didn't even mention he's a polyglot he's just like oh yeah i i tried it in russian too nothing happened what if he only knows that phrase though he's like i just learned yankee whatever it's like i can say where's the bathroom in like five languages the important does that make me a polyglot i don't even know how to say that i can say like there is the library like something so useless that like

it's never gonna help me but yeah maybe he just learned that sentence i know like a word in about 15 different languages and therefore i could string them together as the most polyglot sentence of all time and that makes me feel special generous i sentence is generous. I don't know if it would be a sentence. More like a list. A list. Like a bulleted list of words. Perhaps. Like words in different languages. Anyway, he said it in all these languages.

I guess the aliens did not speak English, Polish, Russian, or German. And so when he got nothing from them, he started stepping closer to the craft and he tried to look through either the door or the windows in it but as he got closer the lights that were already so bright they were so bright that he that was hurting his eyes and so luckily in his like like go bag earlier he had welding goggles no he did

not this feels like renata found a ufo because it feels like i and my purse ended up somewhere and said finally i used for this rubber duck me and my purse and my social security card you know what the only the only time your purse has ever failed me was when i took you to let's make a deal i know i know and they have that that game in the middle where like you have they basically Wayne Brady calls out a bunch of random items and whoever has them in their purse wins. And it's like you would never be able to prepare for it. But he knows that like people have weird shit in their bag at all times.

Yes, it's so smart. You should have won. It makes me so mad that the one time I needed you to have a bunch of crap in your bag. You know what? It's because you told me to wear a freaking costume. And so I had to wear this horrible slip outfit. guess who didn't wear a costume M and so there was not even a chance we could win anything because M wasn't even in costume so they put us in like the last row and they put Linda like way up front so like even if I had the deck of cards and blob a set of jacks or whatever the hell he wanted you wouldn't have redeemed us I'm

just saying well that was a lot of pressure on me um i do actually currently have a deck of cards in my bag and they're the krampus card uh playing cards because i went to my mom's recently so there are currently cards but i'm a little late yeah because i so i took you to let's make a deal and then i had to go to work and my mom had tickets to go back. And so you and Zandy went with my mom and my stepdad to Let's Make a Deal without me. But you then knew what was coming. Did you not prepare your purse then? That's a great question. You know what?

That would be on me fully. That's the Christine problem. That's a me problem. You're completely right. It's only convenient when it's really inconvenient for everybody i don't want it to be convenient for anybody then it defeats the purpose well take a page out of the falcon lake incidents book and make sure you keep welding goggles in there from now on i might that's it's not a terrible idea if you're leaving you never know you never know

so uh he got closer to the ufo it was super bright. And he was like, thank God I've got these goggles. He put them on, he looked in and he still only just saw lights. He said that he saw beams of light, flashes of light, sequences of light, but he didn't see anything else. Okay.

But he didn't get his retinas burned. So good for him. Oh, that's a win to me. So Stephen then tried, he was like, okay, I can't see anything inside of this craft.

I'm going to look on the exterior and just keep trying to study it the best I can. He said it was made of some sort of steel, smooth all around. He said that it was, quote, highly polished and looked like colored glass with light reflecting off of it. Ooh, like stained glass window. Kind of, yeah. He also said, quote, it formed a spectrum with a silver background as the sunlight hit the sides. So it was just like, basically this entire thing was so wildly bright. He like, it even was like creating its own little background.

Beautiful. Everything else looked fuzzy. Eventually, as he's looking at it, the door closes as him like, I guess they were like, we actually don't want to make contact with you. Yeah. Sorry. This is getting weird. You have welding goggles on. It's a lot for us to process.

You're showing zero fear. We don't like that. Yeah. We're trying to intimidate you with our light show and it's not working. Right. Like we thought this would take your eyes out and you're still here. We're trying to burn off your retinas. Yeah.

And you're causing problems. We didn't respond to you in four languages. us together like take the hint so uh he ended up at one point touching the ufo just just to give it a shot and he had been wearing gloves while he was doing this they were like i guess like heavy leather gloves or something, I guess, for rock collecting. Oh, okay. And so he went to go touch the UFO and immediately had to take his hand off because it was so hot that it burned his gloves. Oh, shit. Okay.

Wow. I'm glad he didn't. I'm glad he had gloves on. Geez. Can you imagine? Oh, my gosh. Can you imagine? Oh my gosh.

So finally the craft starts moving and it starts rotating in one direction and lifting at the same time. Oh fun. It's like one of those like princess fairies that you pull and it spins away. Oh my favorite. I love those things. My favorite. I thought those I mean you couldn't get better. I had one when I was a kid and I just thought it was the coolest thing in the world. But then if it accidentally like bounced off something and hit you in the face, like, you were done for.

It hurt. Oh, it hurt. It was rough. Love those things. Yes, like a little fairy propeller. So I forget what they're called. I do, too. I'm sure if we Googled little fairy propeller, we'd get it.

So the craft is rotating and lifting at the same time, and apparently it shoots out some sort of like the website said gas, but I don't know what type of liquid it was. But it was shooting out some sort of like propulsion fluid and it hit him in his shirt, in his chest. And at the same time, I guess the machine itself was so hot that his shirt literally catches on fire. What? time i guess the machine itself was so hot that his shirt literally catches on fire what so he i guess because like maybe the jet the engine shot off or something i don't know anything about cars but something happened it was so hot or there was an explosion maybe after gas had sprayed on him that his whole shirt caught on fire oh they need to get that checked out i think this ufo aliens they oh not the ufo but steven gets it well he also yeah for sure so they didn't burn his retinas but they did get him on fire burn his entire body okay got it yeah it's rough so he ripped off his shirt he ripped off his like

outer shirt and his bottom shirt like freaking out And by the time he, like, maintains, like, some semblance of sanity, he looks up and the UFO's gone. He says that he saw it maybe shoot out, like, 30 feet or so. And by the time he looked back up after his shirt, it had vanished. So he tries to run to the place that the craft had been sitting to, like, get a better look at stuff. And he realizes that as soon as he gets close to it he immediately feels sick he's like vomiting non-stop oh shit and he

says he has this like massive migraine his vision was all fucked up he had chest pains because he had literally just been on fire uh he had cold sweats like it was it was was, it was not good. It was not looking good. So apparently they, the longer he stayed, the more he got sick. And he said, quote, I knew that something totally unnatural had happened to me. Well,

yeah, that's for sure. One way to put it. So he tries leaving the woods, but his compass that he had was going fucking crazy. Oh, interesting. And eventually he

stumbles out of the woods and he finds constable solotki okay um and solotki there's i feel like there were a couple different versions to what happened here but solotki ended up writing in his report that steven looked like he was behaving drunk he was like acting super confused and kind of freaked out and and dazed and was puking and was puking and he to his credit he never said this guy was drunk he even said this guy didn't smell like he had been drinking but for all intents and purposes like i could have not thought anything else except he was drunk sure like that's the closest semblance of what it could be. He was also saying things like, I just saw something in the woods and it attacked me and it burned me. And it was like, okay, well, like maybe you're drunk.

Yeah. So every time Constable Sulaki tried to approach him, this is kind of where it sounded like the stories differed between Sulaki's report and Stephen's report. But Constable Sulaki says when he tried to approach him, Stephen would keep his distance. And when Salaki asked if he needed any medical help, Stephen said no. And so eventually, Salaki literally left. He was like, he was like, I have other duties. I've tried my best. I think his actual quote was something along the lines of like, I'm sorry, but I have other duties I have to like go do.

Like, if you're not going to help me help you, then I'm going to leave. Fair. And so he just left. So what Stephen's report is that he was keeping his distance whenever the constable tried to get near him because he was like, what if I have radiation? What if I'm what if something happened? I don't want to get you sick. Oh, that was very thoughtful. Yeah. So he was like backing away because he didn't want to hurt the other person or, like, get him sick.

And I guess Salaki just took it the wrong way. But he, I guess Stephen's version might have been that, like, if he had been asked if he needed medical help, he would have said yes. But anyway, he ended up wandering back out of the woods, back to his hotel. He a bus to winnipeg and he was admitted to the hospital okay so he in the hospital was the misericordia i what can you spell that m-i-s-e-r miser he miser okay i that's french i'm gonna text it to you okay it looks like misery maybe i would think it's miser like french there you go oh it's one word oh yeah maybe i think it was misericordia misericordia okay that looks i do i do like that almost the word misery is in a hospital's it does actually yeah okay so anyway he got admitted to the hospital so the nurses saw his burns and they later ended up

saying that like okay the the burns on his chest make sense because something like fire shot out on his shirt that tracks but then there was also burns on his stomach that were really fucking weird so they said and you at least from the unsolved mysteries reenactment i'm guessing they worked off of his actual burns so i i was able to see the reenactment version of these burns but they were dots in a very precise grid like a very um like a very exact grid like it didn't look like any of the dots were out of line or anything it was like a perfect square grid of dots it was on his chest it was on his stomach oh stomach oh also just a heads up i googled that word um apparently it's italian oh and i hit pronunciation and it said misericordia so i don't think that's probably

how you say it because there's also one in chicago apparently so i don't know how you would say it like in quote-unquote english but i wonder what it means that two hospitals oh it means mercy mercy like mercy hospital which is the hospital here in Cincinnati. Interesting that Mercy and Misery look so similar. It is a little questionable, huh? So, yeah. So these dots are in this weird square grid on his stomach. And what's even weirder is this dot grid looks perfectly like the pattern on the UFO that can be proven later because Stephen had already sketched everything.

That's weird. It looks exactly like even down to like the rows and the columns and the number of dots there are. And that's really freaky. So his son, Stan, who at the time was nine or ten he actually remembers visiting his dad in the hospital and also confirming what salaki said that like oh yeah my dad was not acting like himself he was rough he was like acting real dazed and confused apparently he reeked of sulfur and ozone. And it wasn't just that. So interesting that Stephen said, oh, this machine smells like sulfur and ozone.

And now all of a sudden he smells like it. Maybe because he got sprayed with that stuff. I don't know. Yeah. But his son Stan says that he smelled like that for weeks. Even after showers. It was like he was a part. He said something like it was almost like he was a part of him.

It was really creepy. Stan also remembers his dad being sick for weeks and being really achy and like losing a lot of weight. He was super tired all the time. And the burns later, I guess they were still looking at these burns after he had already gone home. But he was going back in for checkups. And it was determined after testing that these were not radiation burns, which is good. Yeah.

Because the thing, every other sign was like with his behavior and how sick he was getting, it was all pointing to radiation poisoning. Oh, okay. And so they were like, okay, maybe these are like burns from radiation or something. They found out that these are not radiation based, but they were chemical burns. Yikes. So it was chemical burns, but with behavioral side effects of what seemed like radiation poisoning. How strange.

he decided that he wanted to protect other people in case someone else saw this or to prevent it so he ends up going to the winnipeg tribune the article that he uh got interviewed for was called i was burned by a ufo and the article straightforward yeah they were like we're not fucking around here with this like just know what happened from the start um it's not clickbait you know it's just what it is it's actually the truth yeah so the article spread like wildfire and this is when the media started questioning him all the time and it was apparently later on he said super overwhelming at the same time he also reaches out to the cops to see if he can like make a report and eventually it's taken so seriously that it is now being looked into by the military. Oh, wow. Both the US and Canadian forces.

The Polish. No. Okay. The Russians stopped by. So the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, aka the Mounties. Yay. Oh, a dream. I have a pen that looks like a Mountie.

Really? Makes me very happy. It's carved out of wood. Oh, my gosh. That's fancy. I got it in the airport when you ditched me and eva there for three hours okay remember that no do you remember when you abandoned us in another country i didn't abandon you i dropped you off at your favorite amusement park aka vancouver airport i will say eva and i really bonded. I know you did. You're welcome, by the way.

What airport was it? Vancouver. That airport, which, by the way, of all airports to get stuck in, that one was literally a mall. Like, there was every single spot, there was, like, a huge store to shop through, and it was all Trotsky's. The worst is that it's fully my fault because we showed up way too late because i'm always like i have like a very tight window of like this is when we get to the airport we showed up and i forgot it was an inner because it was like a two-hour flight and i forgot it was an international flight and they were like you literally can't take your suitcases um oopsies it was a good look i look i bought so it was the amount of money that i walked into the vancouver

airport with and left with are very different numbers okay also i made a whole apology page in the scrapbook i gave you of just like a three-page spread of like this is me abandoning you and i'm sorry i'll never i'll never live up to to my apology i had a good time anyway the mounties here we go so the rcmp or the mounties they wanted to look into the craft's landing site and steven actually gave them his own sketches to be like go fucking crazy and there's also i saw an unsolved mysteries that steven actually also went back to the site a few times himself. And they were able to find personal items of his still at the scene, including his scorched shirt and glove that he had ripped off because they were on fire. They were able to see basically they very it's like they were very strategically trying to not say crop circle. But they kept saying like a wide round diameter of dead vegetation like it was like

in a cornfield it was literally in a field i was like so is this a crop circle yes so anyway that's what they also found that and stan his son says that there were two sketches that steven gave the mounties he said there was an overhead view and there was a sectional view so you could see the changes in elevation. Whoa. He also said that was like pretty typical for his dad. He was like, that just is who he is. It is a very dad move, isn't it? Yeah.

Yeah. So then he says, so they gave the sketches to the police. And this is another quote from Stan. Yeah, yeah. and this is another quote from stan yeah yeah he even put in a compass reference on his notes showing where compass north magnetic north was uh right on the piece of paper and he handed it to them he said this is all i remember they went out there with this thing in their hand and a regular map atop a graphic map uh they couldn't find the spot but when they actually did find it every single thing matched up so it was like he told the story

gave everything he had to the police and they were able to completely confirm like whatever they couldn't confirm that there was a ufo there but they confirmed all the remnants of like something weird happened here so again the personal items they found were um his scorched shirt and his glove and apparently he had left some pieces of his kit there and very quickly the air force the canadian army researchers from different universities doctors uh the atomic energy department of canada uh air and then in america they have the or in the u.s they have the aerial phenomena research organization or apro all of them got involved with this case and investigators like i said also were able to

confirm that there was at least a crop circle or dead vegetation diameter uh around steven's story meanwhile as they're investigating every three months and i think this was like for the rest of time every three months steven's burns flare up no like they're brand new wounds and he gets sick all over again what a nightmare vomiting i don't know if it was every three months in the beginning and then it slowly kind of faded into not as often but it sounded from the notes like steven had to deal with this for the rest of his life that's terrible one of the people in the unsolved mysteries who had spoken with steven said there have been times where like he'll let you even like touch through his shirt and you can

feel like the subcutaneous scarring of his of the dot pattern which he calls his buttons oh dad why that's such a dad thing let like let me give let me give this really already odd thing a really odd name but i guess when you touch it he goes beep beep beep okay but if he does that's precious are you kidding me it's very adorable um anyway also like i would probably be that person too to like make light of like a really stark situation it's like no yeah i'm just examining your burns sir you're in the hospital or like i would make someone press the button and be like you pressed the wrong one you got to keep going like something stupid wrong number yeah so anyway he calls them his buttons and you

can like for sure still feel the scarring there a year after the event when steven went back to the site he was able to still a year later dig up radioactive molten rock from the ground so the so the items that they had found in previous investigations on uh on the land had been sent to analysis labs and they could not be explained even after going through all this analysis but they were highly radioactive and that includes the soil and parts of the rock that the ufo apparently landed on i guess they had like literally chipped into this rock and they were able to find fragments of metal that had been melted into the rock whoa as if like the ufo was so hot that it was melting the like the earth's rock jesus and so they were able to test those and they were radioactive so anyway he came

back a year later and they were still finding things in the ground that were radioactive that's freaky okay so a lot of people though use this as a point of debate of like how come after all these like non-stop investigations for a year nobody found that like how come there was still pieces left and no one like dug everything up that ends up being like an argument that this is all a hoax that like maybe things were still being planted a year oh i see i see i see so or maybe it was just such expansive radiation okay that they couldn't find them all bingo just saying i don't know i also just want to believe that it's all real a thousand percent so yeah but apparently uh yeah they were still there was one item that looked like a weird

like metal welded shape it like ended up being in like the shape of a w so it was weird that like the metal had bent in a certain way or like it wouldn't have bent that way when sitting on the rock so it must have come bent but then why would they need so then it became all these like theories of like why this piece of metal even existed why it was why it was radioactive why didn't anyone find it for a year when it was like a big enough piece that a metal detector would have gotten it apparently that when they did test it one of the weird things about this piece of metal was that it was nearly 100 pure silver oh and there was something sticky on it which they found out was like some sort of pitch blend

ore which had combinations of radium and uranium in it i was like you were going maple syrup route but i like that more too i'll take it look i'm down with like if it had maple syrup on it i would want to take it home for myself you're like out on like a gem hunt and you find like a piece of silver covered in syrup uh i can say well this has almost nothing to do with it. But my mind immediately went to when I lived in Boston. I went on like a maple tree tapping excursion. And I thought it was a blast. This has nothing to do with aliens at this point.

But you said maple syrup enough times that I now feel like I got permission to talk about it. Yeah, I opened the the floodgates for lack of a better word anyway if no one's done that before it was insane and also it was one of the first times I ever did anything alone by myself like it was like a like a me date and I was like wow I'm so fun to be with okay anyway and then you never hung out with anyone ever again because you found your best friend and it was yourself got it and then i brought home some maple syrup that i tapped by myself no that's pretty cool it was pretty swanky so or plutonium or something that's back to the future but yes so it had it had radium and uranium in it on top of already being radioactive. And it was nearly 100% silver.

It was just very weird and why did it take a year for anyone to find it, let alone the person who is like the near abductee? Like, why is he finding it and not the military? Oh, he found it. He found it when he went out with it. Yeah, it's a little odd, I guess. So we don't know what happened. Maybe it was just like something that's undetectable by our machines.

And because he has a connection with the UFO, they brought him to it i mean it could be anything so maybe it was too far away nobody i mean who knows people miss stuff i don't know who knows who knows so apparently uh like i said steven dealt with random flare-ups and also random blackouts after this i i'm guessing for the rest of time because there didn't seem to be a time limit on that he ended up dying in 1999 he often regrets telling his story because the media and general criticism was so incessant and it says that it like just completely like quote flipped their lives that always makes me sad yeah i think he was just like people were telling him that they didn't believe him. Life was easier beforehand. Yeah.

Yeah. I saw on one reference that like the son Stan like got bullied for it. Aww. So anyway. His name is Stan. Life's hard enough for a nine year old named Stan, I would imagine. Yeah. What is this, South Park?

So he did say that he, he originally at the very beginning totally stuck by like, I need to tell people because it could protect them in case something like this happens to them. And Steven, Stan and this guy I have not mentioned at all yet, but his name is Chris Ratowski, who is one of Stan's childhood friends. But he ended up growing up to be like Canada's like primo UFO expert. Wow. but he ended up growing up to be like canada's like primo ufo expert wow so like i think maybe like this story with steven like he watched his own friend's dad go through this so maybe that's what like jogged his fascination but he ends up becoming like the guy for ufos in canada so steven stan and chris um they all agreed to go on unsolved mysteries uh in the 90s uh because they were hoping to find other witnesses to corroborate the case so that was they were thinking like maybe they would get to meet other people that they were being interviewed but they never found anybody

else to corroborate the story as accurately as they wanted but they did say out of all the outlets to cover the case unsolved mysteries is hands down the best coverage of the story. Stan actually is quoted saying, they did a very credible job of recreating the incident. They interviewed my dad, me, Chris, and they did a balanced story that had nothing but facts, very little speculation, and it turned out to be the best piece. This was in 1992 when it first aired.

So you can see how many years had passed from 1967 before we had a decent well-treated well-written story love that love that and also like yeah that does make it pretty obvious of like from 67 to 92 it took that long for someone to like really flush out like what the story was yeah and like do it justice wow so if you want to go watch that it's season five episode eight do and it was really quick there they were super quick stories there are two books that have been written about this uh one is george dudding's the falcon lake ufo encounter and another that was co-written by chris ratowski in stan so i think this came out in 2017 and at this point steven has not been with us for like almost 20 years so they wrote it themselves in honor of him

it was called when they appeared falcon lake 1967 the inside story of a close encounter when they appeared and they wrote it for the incident's 50th anniversary cool so there's also apparently steven also wrote his own like 40 page manuscripts and it's called my encounter with the ufo um he wrote that i think the same year that everything happened to him but so i said chris and stan they wrote their book for the 50th anniversary also for the 50th anniversary canada came out with a glow-in-the-dark collectible coin with a ufo on it it cost 20 at the time there's only about 4 000 in circulation and it currently is worth up to 1500 what so that is so cool so there's only 4 000 if you happen to be someone

who has stumbled upon this in your closet or something hold on to that yeah seriously chris himself who again i'm like he has been on he has written a bunch of books he's like a the ufologist of canada he says we won't he won't say for sure whether or not it's a ufo but quote if it was a hoax and it would be a hoax to rival some of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated anywhere. Oh, wow. Stan calls the Falcon Lake incident, quote, probably the most documented and investigated UFO case in North America. And to back that, Chris even says that it's a bigger case than Roswell, which is interesting that I found this story right after I just covered Roswell. covered Roswell. So it's fresh in everyone's mind that there was in 20 years before this encounter in 1947, there was a crash, the military like scooped it all up and tried to cover it up. But this is what Chris says about how it's bigger than the Roswell case. And this is a very long

quote. But this is the last thing I'm going to say. And again, I got this from the transcript from that podcast, UFOs at LAC or UFOs at LAC. So shout out to them. Okay. It's bigger than the Roswell case. Chris says, quote, here we have an incident where not only was a witness physically injured and the injuries were examined by medical doctors, but upon investigation,

the case discovered physical evidence in the form of soil and the site itself had been located. The radiation at the site was verified. And then later, certainly after the fact, the unusual silver pieces that are also radioactive were discovered. We have physical evidence in terms of metals and soil. We have physiological evidence in terms of what happened to Mr. Michalak. It's a very strange case because we have so much documented evidence. There's been many pages on the case that are physically kept in the National Archives from the RCMP and the RCAF. But also we have the United States Air Force's Colorado investigation files,

in addition to civilian research files, plus correspondence between physicians in the United States and Canada on Mr. Michalak. We have the Mayo Clinic files because Mr. Michalak went down to the Mayo Clinic to be tested for a better understanding of what had befallen him. That's cool. Plus, many other documents that are incidental. Overall, we have huge amounts of documents, which the Roswell case certainly doesn't have. In fact, the United States government denies anything happened, but the Canadian government verifies that something very unusual happened to Stephen Michalak.

Leave it to Canada. Well, leave it to Canada, because I found out during this that Canada like has basically all of their UFO files as public access. Like all any documentation. They even said like yeah Canada's much better than the US at this. Like after like the US tries

to keep everything so quiet but if there's like UFO files and like government documents about UFO files Canada just has like all this free access. So. How cool, though. Fun fact. Another reason why I love Canada.

And that's the story of the Falcon Lake incident. Wow. That's pretty, pretty dope. That's pretty dope. I love that this one didn't have a lot of, like, reasoning why it would be fake. You know what I mean? I feel like a lot of times we get, like, a full, like, here's a backstory on why he could be making it all up. But there wasn't much there today so this i mean to this

day it's still considered an unsolved mystery wow so they they like the government has said it's unexplained but they at least admit that like yo something weird's up like yeah yeah that's huge i love that anyway um very good job ta-da you'll get the talent talent show okay how was your pee did you have a good pee it was excellent i'm so glad you asked thank you so much you'll be receiving my postcard in the mail pretty soon kind of upset we didn't facetime while you made peeps but you know we did but like from the other room like here on zoom oh oh i see i see you know what i'm saying yeah i'm picking up what you're throwing down i already had you on call so oh all right tell me a tale bum me the fuck out let's go this is a good one um they're all good ones if i do say so

myself but this one is about the killing dentist oh wait a minute i love this okay but like you know what i mean like i don't love that it happens but compared to you know it's what i mean when i feel like it's a good one it's not a good one like it's not a good thing that it happened obviously but it's it's just like it's still bad but like i'm not gonna like be wildly depressed by the end like i was with some of the more graphic ones yeah yeah yeah it's like kind of an older story which always helps to kind of separate it's really fucked up don't get me wrong um but maybe less um in your face than usual. So we'll see. We'll see.

You can be the judge. I don't know. I'm so jaded at this point by these stories. They don't really faze me as much as they used to. You'd think I would be jaded, but every time I'm just like, wow, what on earth did I walk myself into? I guess I was always jaded because from day one,

I was telling these stories that like, I was really fascinated by. So I don't think I ever, don't know i've always it's always been the same level of shock and awe i mean look i'm always i'm jaded at this point to like every time i see that there's a woman in red or some bullshit i'm like i gotta talk about this again oh my god oh my god she needs so much attention this woman in red what if What if the plot twist is actually the same woman in red at every single location on Earth? Maybe she just needs a ton of validation. And I mean, we're giving it to her. She's a Gemini.

And it's okay. Yeah, we get it. That's her prerogative. We show up everywhere wearing the same clothes usually. So it's pretty unfortunate. Black shirt. Yeah. No pants.

Logo shirt I got for free of our podcast. Yeah, pretty standard. No pants. Exactly. What if it goes with no pants logo shirt i got for free of our podcast yeah pretty standard no pants exactly what if the ghost with no pants that's gonna be like the 21st century ghost like the quarantine ghost we're still waiting on that one because i haven't died yet but afterwards like everyone's gonna be seeing the pantsless ghost don't you pantsless ghost 100 and every time you'll be scared because i'm a ghost but also i'll be scared because i'll like cover myself and be like oh my god i'm not wearing pants again and then we're both scared and it becomes a thing it's like a scooby-doo like ah ah love it you got it you got it well here you go uh this is the killing dentist and there's apparently a horror film called the dentist as if i've ever seen it

not gonna happen um i don't have plans to have you I haven't seen the dentist but I will say and I just mentioned this with the tooth fairy that there's a scary movie called darkness falls and it's about the tooth fairy that's weird that was a classic in my house growing up and then also not a dentist but a different medical profession there's my favorite cheesy 80s uh horror movie that like a horror movie that's so bad that you can only watch it to laugh at is dr giggles that's a good one it's literally like the dumbest thing i've ever seen so sorry if you were a part of making dr giggles but you knew what you were doing when you when you know what you've done it's literally a guy

who it's a crazed guy who pretends he's a doctor and he breaks into your house and the whole time he's killing you he's like giggling but it's like it's like i think it's meant to be like a really bad over the top movie yeah yeah like no one's taking it seriously no one's going into this movie being like i'm gonna be scared i'm gonna watch it and be horrified and call you crying so we could definitely watch dr giggles together and you would be fine let's really okay because you made me watch that one horrible movie what was that okay that was the exact opposite that scared me so much what was that called that sinister yeah sinister i that was not good for me that one is like why would you do that to me? I don't know. Okay. I don't know.

Well, fun fact. If you have a fear of the dentist, it's pretty damn common. It's called dentophobia or odontophobia sometimes. And according to WebMD, dental phobia is a more serious condition than anxiety or more common than anxiety. More widespread than anxiety. Sounds like a type of anxiety it sounds like certainly does to me yeah i would agree i i would argue maybe they're hand in hand but i guess not if some people don't have anxiety but have a fear of the dentist i don't know blows

my mind i feel like they're just so meant to be yeah they're they're holding hands in my mind but whatever star-crossed lovers okay oh so this is the story of glennon edward engelman he is known as the killing dentist he was born in 1927 and was raised in st louis by a middle-class family his father was originally a u.s air force member but now worked on the railroad and his mother worked at home raising glennon and his three older siblings he was the youngest uh known to be an average student at school he was pretty unremarkable for lack of a better term nobody likes yeah i know nobody thought he was like unusual or acted strange or had any sort of like compulsions or actions that were out of the ordinary

and once he finished high school he served in the u.s army air corps during world war ii um and according to uh one source called rander.com he joins timothy mcveigh jeffrey dahmer son of sam aka david berkowitz and green river killer aka gary ridgeway as some of the famous murderers who served in the u.s military so fun fact there's that is a fun fact it's not like a it's not a happy fact but it's a fun fact yeah yeah it's in our it's our version of a fun fact yeah It's not like a happy fact, but it's a fun fact. Yeah, it's our version of a fun fact. Yeah. I love it. So when returning after service, Engelman spent his time giving back to the neighborhood. He helped treat and look after ill people in the community because out of the kindness of his heart, he wanted to care for those who needed the help and needed the medical service.

Yeah. The community really thought like, this is a good guy. Say less. We get it. he's a pillar from pillar to killer he's a pillar he's a pillar we know how this goes um so with the help of the gi bill he was able to enroll at washington university of st louis school of dentistry and start his career as a dentist i I assume most of us in the US know about the GI Bill. I don't know if that's a common thing or if that was just something I learned in like AP US history. I feel like that's a common thing. Yeah, I think so. At least in the US. But if you're not in the US, or you don't totally know, it's basically a post WorldWorld War II kind of government adjustment from 1944 that helped service people

gain access to college education and other options, benefits like that. And that was mostly tuition-free, which I did not know this. As a result, almost 49% of college admissions in 1947 were veterans. Almost 50%. I'm not surprised by that yeah 49 my grandpa he did that i think both of them did that they went to college with the gi bill afterwards they were like oh well i got this check after all my hard work i might as well go to college because i got i gotta find another way to support my family exactly exactly so that's kind of what happened here engelman went to dentistry school um and around this time at college he met edna ruth ball and they fell in love got married in 1953 in clayton missouri engelman was 26 edna was 19 they in two

years not only did engelman graduate from washington university he also divorced edna for unknown reasons but they were still amicable and then then he married a woman named Eda G. Van Hest on April 20th 1956 and at this point he was 29 she was 25 so Eda so Edna is the first wife and Eda is the second wife so that's it's E-D-A so it's spelled the same without an N the N huh okay so from Edna to Eda, these are his two wives so far. And between him graduating and his first known murder, it is reported by TheRichest.com that Engelman first attempted to satiate his thirst for taking innocent lives by killing animals. Well, I can't say I'm surprised, but I don't like it anyway. But you know what is weird is it wasn't until he was an adult.

I feel like a lot of times we hear about this as a child, like antisocial tendencies. That's a great point. That usually it's like one of the first signs when the kid doesn't even really know what they're doing yet or doesn't know what they're doing yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So I will say, to be fair, apparently he was obsessed with hunting. And so he would go hunting and his friends and family were like, he was like really into hunting. And he would keep parts of the animals as like his trophies. I mean, to be fair, I am, to be clear, I'm not into hunting for obvious reasons. No? Why? I know it's surprising to a lot of you um with all my gun collection as you

can see behind me squidward squidward yeah um you do have a bunch of animals behind you though on that wallpaper that could maybe get hunted by someone that's right some trophy hunting a little lion here cheetah there um but like as much as i'm not a fan of hunting i do recognize in my mind that there's a difference between going hunting for sports and going hunting to murder animals like this is fun for me to kill them like i feel like there's a difference there there's there's a line that maybe some people consider a gray space but i would say there still is the line agreed agreed so that's kind of where i stand because i was like oh god hurting animals and then it was like he went hunting and i was like well a lot of people go hunting but i guess the difference is that he went hunting in order to hurt the

animals which is like yikes uh like he went in with an enjoyment of the pain yeah the suffering that will come from hurting the animal precisely at least according to his friends and family which seems like a little bit no no no no thank you um i'm not super on board with that uh because i feel like if you say to someone oh i don't like hunting because you're killing animals they're not like well it's not about killing like i feel like they're not like but it's so fun or they'll at least say like oh we try to do it as humanely as as humanely as you can by hunting an animal yeah right okay for luck but yeah they're like we're trying to like shoot it in the head one right it's not like because we want to watch it die like i feel like that's usually not the angle people go with so yeah i can understand the difference here basically and then uh it wasn't long before he graduated

from animals to people anyway so like we were bound to get there uh he got a taste for human murder on december 17th 1958 he was now 31 and he shot okay so he shot someone do you remember edna his first wife her no he shot her new husband. I thought they were amicable. They were. That's problematic. There's, I mean, it's, that's really awful. But also like that makes me think there was some more underlying drama there than we were. Well, I'll tell you. Do you want to know the backstory?

The drums? Yes, obviously. I have some tea for you. I know it's tea time Wednesday, but I'll give you some tea here. It's okay. So her husband, James Bullock, was a clerk for the Union Electric Company of Missouri and was a part-time student. And he was shot near the St. Louis Art Museum with a.22 caliber gun on his way to attend a night class. I know.

And Edna and James Stanley Bullock had only been married for five and a half months when he was murdered. So it was a very new marriage. only been married for five and a half months when he was murdered so it was a very new marriage however it wasn't as you probably imagine as we both imagined the case of a jealous ex-husband in fact edna had given engelman consent to kill james in order for them to collect on his life insurance together oh so they were amicable they were amicable for a farther extent than we thought wow i for a second i was like oh they weren't as friendly as you said. And now they're like so friendly. It like turns it on its head.

It's like, oh, they were really friendly. Like too friendly, one might say. Wow. Can you imagine getting along that well with your ex? Yeah, no. Please, no. I barely have a conversing relationship, let alone like let's plot murders of our loved ones together he couldn't couldn't even imagine no so uh i i know that saying she gave him consent to kill him

is quite a weird way to use the word consent it's not quite a phrase yeah it's not quite what i mean consent but she was like down with it yeah she was on board right yeah yeah she wasn't saying no she wasn't making sure it wouldn't happen she was on the wrong side of history yeah precisely great way to put it so edna collected 64 000 from james's life insurance which today would be 600 000 so more than that um over 600 000 so a lot at the time engelman wasn't considered a suspect for two reasons first he allegedly had an alibi and second according to the podcast medical murders which is a great podcast show uh quote the st louis police had been thrown off by the fact that the alley where james was murdered was a known meeting spot for

gay men so they assumed bollock had been having an affair and was murdered by his lover or an angry bigot oh this theory dominated the investigation bringing detectives to a dead end rather quickly which was lucky for engelman because he didn't even get eyed as a suspect wow which is like it's another issue of like people see like oh a relationship and some sort of a lgbt relationship it must have been a spurned lover it's like okay you're just painting yourself into a corner and it's not it has nothing to even do with that ultimately but right whatever but good guess but good guess good try i guess yeah he's just at the art museum on his way to a class but okay i know so edna handed engelman sixteen thousand dollars of the life insurance payment and then he decided to use that money to create a drag racing drag strip business not the like fun cool kind that we know of today i was like that sounds pretty gay

yeah it's like not the play on words fun kind but like the kind my stepdad likes the like drag racing you know cars whatever i don't really get it but so he decided to create this drag strip drag racing business and he put the sixteen thousand dollars toward that and he was like set for a while because he had his drag racing business he had dentistry he was married to eda and his murder his next murder didn't happen for five years so he seemed content for a while so he like up until that point i don't know if you know this information i feel like if you did you would have already said it but so for the five years in between his first and second kill do you think he was like satiated by it like do you think like those five years he like wasn't thinking about killing

anyone and he had like gotten it out of his system or had he been plotting for five years um i don't think he was plotting because when he gets to the next murder it's it seems very much like i feel like every murder like to correct me if i'm wrong when you hear it but it feels like every murder he kind of plans on the fly or like it doesn't seem like the most well-thought-out winded like five-year plan i guess it also feels at least the the first murder it feels like there was like a monetary reward yes something that came from it to make it worth it and ultimately he does say it was for money and that's debated and i'll tell you why later but he does his quote-unquote excuse ultimately is I did it for financial – I did all my murders for financial reasons, which is like, okay, I guess. Not okay.

I'm saying like – which is like, hmm, you can argue that, but – It's like, I don't believe you. I don't totally believe you. That seems like a little bit ridiculous um based on some of these stories but yeah so i don't know if he was content or maybe you know how sometimes with these serial killers it's just like the time between gets shorter and shorter and shorter like maybe it was just one of those where he was like wow i killed someone because it was his first murder and then like as wore off, he finally got into another and it kind of got shorter intervals.

Maybe that's what it was. So I'm not totally sure. But it was five years of general peace in his household. Okay. So for what it's worth. Sure. So on September 26, 1963. All right.

I'm sorry. I have to say this now. I told myself I would say it the next time I said the month of can you say that what's the month after august september can you say it again no why i can't say it right you say it september with a z what in the german what is that what i do everybody like not everybody but a few people over the years of the podcast have said like, I love the way Christine says September. And I'm like, what do I say weird about it? Oh, because you say it with a Z. You go like, like you're like September.

September. It's September. Okay, well, this is where I admit that I'm dreading if my baby's born in september because i don't know how to say it so i'm gonna have to like learn the proper pronunciation and i feel like i've been trying to tweak it as i go to be fair i never noticed it until this moment when you're really okay because but but also like i am so comfortable in draws and like sure like combining words and so if you're saying you know a word that ended in s and then goes into september it it could very easily just be like excused as like oh it was just kind of connecting the words wow it just never occurred to me but now that you're saying it by

itself it is odd it's been something i'm so weirdly self-conscious about for like a couple years now because people tend to i'm not meanly but they're like oh it's so funny how how cute christine says it in such a german way and i'm like what do i say but then i realized like because in german it is september so it's like september i'm clearly saying it like the german way take the girl out of germany well oh my god i'll say all the other ones german that would be quite uh an adventure for us but my favorite word that you ever say could be is stroll peter and i'll i'll never know it makes me so happy because it's it's something in the language where my mouth never learned how to make that sound and so i'm just jealous you can pronounce it that way and i can't get it how do you say it yeah yeah what is that

it's the r the listen i don't want to embarrass the germans i don't want to embarrass myself i don't need to say it the germans are so embarrassed they don't get embarrassed they're german they're definitely gonna get cringe it's definitely cringy when if i keep going and like i know i'm only gonna fail but that sound i'll is just like beyond a capability i love how i am like just uh bitching about myself and you like to build me back up i that makes me very happy no you look you make some weird sounds but you also make some sounds i can't make so i i guess that it's a win so to be clear it's september this is so embarrassing okay i'm i'm just wondering like have you not ever seen it written out like it's definitely well okay like you're you're you're

acting mind blown that it sounds like there's a mess up the front i can't it just i don't know i'm like 30 i don't know it just never really hit me until recently and then when people ask like oh when's baby gonna be born i keep saying like oh either because it's october 1st is a due date so i'm like oh either in october or september and like i just the more i say it the more i'm like people do tend to comment it's definitely sounds like you're saying the first half of zipper like september zipper zipper cooter september okay actually Actually, it's SepRecruiter. Do you mind? SepRecruiter. Maybe that'll help your issue of saying ZipRecruiter by accident. Okay, that's still the most embarrassing thing I've ever done.

Okay, so I'll practice it just in case because if the baby is born in September, then I'm going to have to like learn how to say the month I think properly. Your poor kid is just at such a disadvantage in so many ways yeah such a disadvantage that they can be raised bilingual it really sucks for them okay okay on september 26 1963 the same year that engelman's drag strip opened he struck again so maybe this is his celebration moment he either murdered depending on the source his business partner or his employee but somebody who worked with him okay eric fry who was a guy involved in the dragster business was struck on the head with a rock pushed down a well and then blown up with dynamite holy fuck like literally acme cartoon level like shit meet me like anvil

yeah like an acme anvil falling okay so wait rock on the head fell into a well blown up with dynamite yeah correct that literally is like a hannah i was gonna say hannah barbara hannah i say barbara but again i say zip september so who the fuck knows what it is it literally sounds like something that you would see like in the flintstones 100 i mean like also not to discredit the fact that somebody literally was murdered but like no i like i think about how i'm gonna die one day but and i have like some guesses on like how i'm gonna go that's not one of them like yeah you wouldn't think huh like you wouldn't plan for that at least uh most people and so i'm sure he didn't but get get ready his

death was rule is accidental by authority what why because animators drew it or something like it's a cartoon and he survived no i don't know because here's the like that makes no sense it makes no sense and I have a little timeline here um this was compiled by Jessica Silfer, Jen Varley, and Kirby Welsko for Radford University oh what up I know I thought that had a connection to you somehow yes Eric Fry's wife Sandy who was a friend of Engelman's donated the life insurance money to Engelman's drag strip. So we have another pattern here where the wife is like, oh no, my husband, Eric Fry, died accidentally by getting pushed

into a well filled with dynamite. Oops, here's the money, Mr. Engelman, who owns the drag strip where Eric worked. Jeez. So what the hell, right? Well, it turns out that Sandy isn't just Engelman's friend. She is Engelman's wife, Ida's niece.

Oh. And lover. And his lover. Oh, okay. So I was right. You were right. But it's also his niece-in-law. So it's his niece-in-law and his lover.

So, like, yuck. So he's, like, just doing favors for all these women that he's hooked up with at some point. Well, it's not even favors because it ultimately is his money yeah or he and he's also getting money he's profiting but so it's hand in hand with these women yeah so it seems like his if he had an mo the people he like scopes out are people related to him that he could like maybe get close to is that yeah that seems fair yeah yeah yeah it always seems to be connected to either a family member in-law business partner lover like somebody just accessible people that have some sort of money exactly exactly yes that's 100 right so sandy is the woman he's sleeping with also his niece-in-law so basically what happened was the

drag strip had begun costing more than engelman had anticipated and he needed more money to funnel into the business so he turned to sandy and encouraged her to strike up a relationship with one of the workers at the drag strip eric fry so he even orchestrated their whole relationship so so he's really going into this with intent completely and he's like created from step one like it's a lie like like matchmaking for his own kill 100 so he's like why don't you lure this guy eric into your you know use your wiles and get him to marry you show an ankle show oh well that's pretty far em i think that's pretty extreme i wouldn't go that far sorry sorry i know it's a little inappropriate for a show but uh yeah so he says sandy why don't you strike up a relationship

get him to marry you and then we can inherit money from his death so easy sandy and eric get married small potatoes get him to marry get him to marry you guess what september of 1962 they get married check next stage make it look like he accidentally died okay push him in a well and blow him up with dynamite check uh apparently it worked he's a very lucky dude um and that coupled with the fact that sandy quickly had her husband cremated, stopped further questions from authorities. And three months later, Sandy was $25,000 richer. And then she donated $16,000 of that to the drag strip business to keep it alive. Wow.

And also, though, like, when I think so, the first person that they killed was like worth like 600,000 in today's world. And what was, so you said 16 grand. This person was worth 16 grand to him specifically. Like when they split it, he got 16 grand. Is that 16 grand in today's money? No, that's 16 grand. Let me see what that was in 1963. So I was going to say like all of that work for like 16 grand is not worth it.

But that's exactly why people say oh you killed them for money like it doesn't really add up because yeah it doesn't ultimately seem worth like six hundred thousand dollars isn't even a million dollars i couldn't kill someone for no first of all like not not a million dollars let's put it on record well certainly not less than a million dollars like you know like no so today um where is it oh is 142 000 yeah are you fucking kidding me alone for your small business like yeah like that's this guy okay yeah i have my opinions and i don't think this was money based yes it doesn't seem like it was purely financial like it wasn't like he was in a hard place and like he was desperate and this was the only choice it was

like he orchestrated this although maybe it was like a scheme within a scheme where he was pretending with his ex or his niece or whatever he's saying oh it's about money that way they won't catch on that he actually just feels like murdering people exactly exactly and then when later he says oh it was always for money people are like are you sure because it doesn't like it seems like an excuse that he's created to be like no it's normal i just wanted money it's like there's something weirder happening here like you're hunting obsession like there's something like uncomfortable here um that's exactly why it's kind of like nobody totally knows um but yes he claims it's for money so she donates sixteen thousand dollars to the drag strip business guess what the drag strip had to close anyway because it wasn't enough money

so it's like after all that the financial keep was too high and it didn't even stay that alone does it for me where it's like oh it wasn't even enough money to keep your business alive completely it was still worth it and it was like right afterward it's not like it lasted a few more years it was like right after that he still couldn't make the money to keep it up and just closed it so it's like wow what a fucking horrible waste of human life for for a lame excuse that's like 16 000000 bucks. Yeah. So, yeah. Again, we have another period of time where he supposedly doesn't murder anyone else.

And that's a good point, too, is like, as far as we know, he didn't murder anyone else, you know? So it seems like a time of relative peace. Who knows?

Maybe something happened in between there that he just never admitted to or we don't know about. There's no way to really know, you know? But, yeah, especially because these keep being accidents. he just never admitted to or we don't know about there's no way to really know you know but yeah uh especially because these keep being accidents um but so he supposedly doesn't murder anyone else

his marriage to ed or sorry eda ends in 1965 when she finds out about his affair with her niece and like his niece because they're married fair enough fair enough and during this time sandy the niece becomes pregnant with what could potentially be engelman's baby we don't know for sure but like the timeline adds up um so sandy moves away to live with her grandmother and engelman decides to get back into dentistry he's like let's get back to my hobby my or my career i guess my career path um i've spent enough time on drag racing and like sleeping with my niece i guess it's path um i've spent enough time on drag racing and like sleeping with my niece i guess it's time i've been putzing around it's time to get back on track you know it's time to get back to the real deal my college degree put it to work dust it off um so he decides

to throw himself back into dentistry and he marries his third wife ruth jolly on april 15th 1967 um and he seems to have settled into quite a simple happy life uh he he's never suspected for any of these crimes he's not even like on the radar so it's not even like he has like to look over his shoulder he's just completely living free like and also i hate when the narcissist wins like i hate i hate when it's like oh wow like you were you really did get away with it especially for something so stupid like blowing someone up in a well it's like you weren't even trying to be like uh discreet if that's how i go every single person better be on the fucking trail to be like where did that come wow what an unfortunate accident like if i go that way dynamite comes i go that way people will

be like like and i don't blame you people will be like yeah that sounds like something she would accidentally do oh if you got blown up by dynamite i'd be like i don't know she's probably like trying to hammer something into the wall and hit a landmine it was her purse she was looking for welding goggles she accidentally picked up the tnt and it's just a big mistake i mean that i get but if m dies by dynamite we gotta look into it everybody because dynamite or hiking you know something's wrong no yeah that's bad news you know it wasn't me doing it you were there against your will yes uh-huh yeah um so he's living the dream again he's like super popular in the neighborhood he's a pillar of the community and it was noted

that he began giving free dental care to people in town who couldn't afford it because he was just such a generous soul um however according to the podcast medical murders that i mentioned earlier apparently he was also known to be a racist and was once investigated by the st louis civil rights commission for refusing care to a black woman so as much as he's giving free dental care he's giving free dental care asterisk not really right and he sucks okay fair enough nine years later he strikes again this time with a new accomplice his dental assistant carmen miranda so he's moved on from relatives to like well i guess employee well yeah he killed his first employee now he's working with his second employee he still has tabs on his cohorts yes yes exactly

and he seems to always have new cohorts i guess because he's killing them but yeah so he has this new cohort named carmen miranda and she is more than his dental assistant but by that i don't mean they're sleeping together i know that's what it sounds like but engelman's parents had taken care of the miranda family during the 50s and 60s and they had even lived under the engelman roof for a while so he had already the engelman's family had already taken the miranda family under their wing so she was it almost feels like she was already indebted to him a little bit got it because she like owed him for you know taking care of her family so i don't know if that ends up having anything to do with it but it sort of

feels like it um he had also semi-recently helped carmen out by giving her an illegal abortion in the dentist's chair because she couldn't find one anywhere else understandably in the 60s in missouri so so she like really is like in debt to him yes as far as she might be especially in a dangerous way of like she can't go to the authorities and say guess what i got an illegal abortion you know what i mean like yeah it's already in a tight place because he has something quote-unquote against her as far as like the 60s go so when engelman needed money desperately, he turned to Carmen and persuaded her to marry a telephone lineman called Peter J. Holm. And Carmen later revealed that Engelman suggested that I marry someone and that he would kill them in order for them to get money. So just outright again.

I was going to say, so he's just like blank, like point blank telling you like, oh, do this so that I can kill him. Yeah, precisely. Like there's no ulterior. There's no like subtle. There's no like, oh, I met this guy and you two would really hit it off. And also like, I'm going to awkwardly push like you were dating. Get rushed. And then I'll like subtly like drop hints.

No, he's outright like, why don't you woo this man so that I can murder him and we can make some money. But in which case okay well i no comment i would finally finally i've done it no comment i've never heard you say that before just kidding and they did it so on september 5th 1976 engelman was now 49 peter j holm was shot in the back with a rifle as he stood next to his wife in a wooded area wow and guess what he fucking got away with it because carmen told the sheriff at the crime scene that this was a hit and run somebody ran by shot him in the back and left and she had no clue who it was question mark and so the sheriff wrote it off as an unfortunate accident. And that was that.

It's like, really? No one even asked like, oh, a hit and run. Like, was he involved in something? They never even investigated, like, who would have wanted to kill him. Or like, was she wanting to kill him? Like, nothing. They didn't even look. So unfortunately, or fortunately, I don't really know.

Carmen couldn't deal with her guilt in participating. And she was eventually hospitalized for depression, which she alleged came from this whole incident, which like I don't blame you. It seems like a lot. Yeah. Also like to like to convince someone to marry you, you at some point have to like put your guard down and realize like, oh, this person is actually being really nice to me. And they really care and trust me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's got to be some sort of like, at some point when they're alone, I don't like, maybe she did really feel like super in debt to this guy. But it makes you wonder, like, was there a point where she could have been like,

let's like, double blind him and I'm on your side and let's go get him like, you know? Yeah, anything like pull out of this. But but again like maybe she was just cornered because of yeah who knows what he had on her you know so i don't i don't know how exactly like how indebted she was but apparently she didn't feel good after this incident and engelman what a shock didn't care uh that her feelings were hurt quote unquote um he had a tax bill he needed to settle so he demanded that carmen claimed the life insurance money immediately and it was 75 000 and not wanting to deal with engelman anymore carmen had her brother nick take over the insurance and nick gave engelman the 10 000 today that's 47 grand so still not like that much money for going and shooting someone in cold blood and yeah again

it's like hard to say it's like not that i think any amount of money is worth shooting someone in cold blood to be clear but definitely not that number yeah it's definitely not that number um and so interesting that she had her brother involved because later the brother nick ends up testifying against him so just a heads up that like he ends up because she roped him now into this whole scheme he ends up with some intel on dr engelman as well so peter halm had literally just been shot and now engelman was already planning his next murder so i think that goes into the whole theory of like the shorter intervals or maybe that he's now going after people with less money he has to keep doing it to like actually make bank that's true he's like wow

i already ran out yeah that's a good point too engelman had a new accomplice he now turned to another employee named bob and his name was bob handy and he knew he could trust this guy guess what uh job description bob handy had? He was a handyman. Yep. Can you imagine being born with that name? Being like, well, this is my destiny, I guess. Oh, God. Well, you know, it's meant to be.

I knew someone. I've mentioned this before, I think. But in college, I knew someone who was like a poli-sci major, wanted to grow up to be like a justice. And their last name was Justice. So they would be Justice Justice. At that point, it's meant to be. You gotta. You gotta lean into it.

If your last name is Baker and you don't know how to get me a cake, I judge you a little bit, you know? And that's a really common one too. So there should be a lot more cakes involved in this world. You're telling me. I've seen very little cakes did you know i made a cake last night at like one in the morning did it look like your lumberjack one christine um was it that good it literally was it worse it literally did look like it okay this is what happened how what were you trying what were you what were you trying to do okay here's what happened i got no no no no here's what happened

christine you the lumberjack one looked bad because it actually was complex this one looks like it was a simple chocolate cake out of a box what did you do i got too impatient and it was in the oven not long enough and i was like like, well, I still want to eat it. And then it said, wait for it to cool. And I did it. I just dumped it out and started putting frosting on it. And it just fell in two million pieces. You were so horrible when it comes to like when the one rule is wait.

I can't. You know, I can't. I can't. Literally, you had to wait two different times. Wait for it to be in two different times wait for it to be in the oven wait for it to not be scorching hot no and neither time did you learn like what something's wrong with you i know i know it's like i have i have no ability to be patient it's and i'm 30 years old like you'd think i'd have a better grasp of your best of a baby get fucking

ready i don't know what I'm going to do. Like, I cannot even force myself to walk away and like count to 10. I can't. I just have no impulse control when it comes to stuff like that. So that's where the cake is, is what I'm answering. The best part about the ADHD, though, is that I am just distracted all the time. So when I'm mad about having to wait, five seconds later, I'm like, oh, wait, here's another massive project I can focus on.

And then I forget about the cake. And then I surprise myself and I'm rewarded with cake at the end. And I'm like, I'm very lucky. Maybe I should just be more distractible. Well, ain't that the truth? Teach me your ways. Send me that picture of your cake because I really am going to need to judge you for that later. This is so embarrassing.

You can even see the container of like store-bought two dollar frosting in the background like it's not even like it and i i feel like in general i'm actually a pretty decent baker i know it doesn't seem like it but like when it actually comes to like real you know complex oh christine you know i will say i know it's not like completely cooked but it does give me like bruce from matilda cake vibes yes and like and you know i'm kind of for it it tasted pretty of good and i ate a lot of it because it kept falling apart so i had to keep just putting it my mouth um so it sounds like a good problem but like it ew christine you know what i'm most grossed out about is like how you handled that jar of frosting that wasn't even like part of the problem and yet somehow the frosting is like a fucking disaster in the background i already know your hands were

covered in frosting oh it was just disgusting you were just licking your fingers it was in my hair i mean i'm like a fucking three-year-old i like have no control it's horrible christine if if you showed me that can of frosting in a couple weeks i would be like oh your baby was eating frosting clearly how did you get the don't let the baby eat frosting i know it's honestly i don't know i don't know i have no control i'm sorry if i didn't if i didn't know it was undercooked that cake does look really fucking good though that looks like the cake i wanted from matilda thank you it actually tasted pretty damn good so for what it's worth uh listen i didn't make anyone else eat it so like like don't make me eat it but like i will i will

longingly look at it okay i don't want to get sick but i'll look at it no it was cooked i promise it was cooked it just was too hot i can't promise me i can't promise you anything i'm so full of shit um anyway so when you say where's the cake i just couldn't help but tell you that there is cake downstairs but it is well let's just put it this way that picture shows me that your last name is not baker i know that's why you know my last name actually means slate uh like roofing but don't put me on a roof either i don't think that's gonna end well either um so you know i think my last name what's what's schultz mean isn't that like a landowner or something yeah i feel like we've looked this up or we asked my mom um i really shouldn't own land no probably not

i just rent so anyway yeah i think you're right i think it literally just means like you own a plot of land cool i know fine mine means slate okay and shaffer means shepherd and i was always like cool my name means shepherd then my parents were like no i mean slate and i was like that's so fucking boring whatever okay so i made a cake anyway back to this um so handy is a mr handy is a handyman that's kind of the moral of the story that's that's where we got yeah that's where that's where we got derailed um he was a handyman for the dental practice and when engelman and handy grabbed lunch together in the past engelman confided in him about his murder spree which i'm like wow how do you end up in that position where you're like i gotta tell you something bob handy has like a set of those eyes i was about to say he's got just warm eyes you could just melt into and tell them anything wow you just lose yourself in those eyes i bet you do

you just out of nowhere like by the way i've murdered three people you know gasp three at this point uh yes yeah three yes and so uh handy is like instead of being like uh check please and also your nearest phone booth he's like actually i'm really fascinated can you tell me more and so i don't know how this is how you and i met by the way that's right that's true i literally just told you about a bunch of grisly crime and you're i was like anyway i'm sure this is the end of our friendship and my eyes just lit up and i said keep going come back come back keep going yeah so when engelman confided in him bob handy was like actually i'm really into this and so engelman was like okay well actually i have the perfect opportunity for you we're gonna make loads of money and Handy was like all right I'm in so Engelman had an affair with this woman named

Barbara Boyle and he convinced Barbara to woo after they had an affair together he's like I know that this has been fun and we're having such a romantic time but I need you to woo this man named ronald goosewell and marry him um wow for me this this plan really does work every time it seems at least for what it's worth he's sticking to the plan that works like he's not mixing it up at all yeah and it works so she obeyed uh she wooed this man named ronald goosewell and got married and engelman prepared to strike so plans changed a little bit because barbara revealed to engelman that not only was ronald goosewell loaded his parents were really loaded oh no i know so on november 3rd 1977 engelman and bob handy broke into ronald's parents farmhouse

near near edwardsville illinois where he shot both ardner arthur excuse me and vernita guzel guzel sorry both parents he just shot them in their house it's terrible wow so despite a solid investigation police ruled that this was a home invasion gone wrong. Simple as that. Wow. Simple as that. And a year later, Ron, who was an only child, claimed his parents' inheritance. So this is like a long plan this time.

Wow. This was a real long term plan. She had to marry this man for a while to get through to the end. And a year after that, at 11 p.m. on March 31st, 1979, Engelman was ready to complete his mission. When Ron was pulling into his driveway, Engelman and Handy ambushed him in his garage, pulled a.38 pistol on him then and there, and left his body in his car, dead. And it took five days before anyone discovered the body. That's terrible yeah yeah and because he was like in his fancy car with cigarettes they found coins and condoms on him they believed he had driven to east st louis to hire a sex worker which is like

because he had condoms on him i guess wow making a lot of assumptions here but yeah just because like i mean i don't know like well anyone that has a penis i I don't know. Like, I don't. I feel like a lot of people just have condoms on them. Like, I feel like that's very normal. And I get that he was married. So maybe they were like, well, it's not like he was using them with his wife. But it's like, well, he could have been. I don't know.

It just seems like a lot of assumptions they're making. Yeah, that's a lot. Are you kidding me? Oh, my God. If someone found me in a car with a condom, I'd be like, I don't know. My friend left it in the car. Like, that's just what happens. Like, people have condoms.

Christine's purse has a lot weirder things than condoms in it. You never know. And she's not using them. She had a baby. Who knows where this came from? Honestly, it's a mystery. Just leftovers. So they found these condoms and cigarettes in his car.

And they were like, oh, no. He must have been up to no good. And so they basically just said, well, he must have been up to no good and so they basically just said well he must have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time at the wrong crowd and that's why he was killed so again and literally nobody after several years has been like hey this guy is slightly affiliated with every murder we should go talk to him never insane no one is doing their work over here i know it's like what year did dna come out like or was like the dna was invented you know what i mean yeah uh like the late like the early 90s

was when it was first used in evidence okay i was like damn what is going on in the 70s yeah now it became like common practice in like the 90s i think or more common um so barbara then became heir to the goosewell oil business fortune because she had married ronald and was able to claim her inheritance and her husband's life insurance policy 17 months later which totaled to 340 000 which today is 1.5 million so eventually he got his big windfall i guess and then did she split that evenly with him or did he get all 1.5 million? No, he did not get all 1.5.

At this point, she's been married to this guy for like three years. So I would hope she got at least something. But she distributed some of it to Engelman and Handy. It doesn't say how much in any of the sources, but a portion she gave to them, too. And luckily for Engelelman eventually suspicion raised around barbara boyle because apparently she was the one acting a little too fishy for everyone's good and she was arrested and convicted of the murder and her sorry of the murder of him her husband and his parents and sentenced to jail for 50 years but she didn't fucking give him up she didn't say engelman was

involved wow okay first of all though if i were in a scheme that's a homie like that's that's a good friend but also like on the outskirts of that story what the fuck like why didn't you know wouldn't do that for you you know not in a million years apparently for like maybe a dollar he like are you kidding like he for very little money he wanted you to spend three years of your life yeah that for you you know not in a million years apparently for like maybe a dollar he like are you kidding like he for very little money he wanted you to spend three years of your life yeah give you up for 1.5 million not even all 1.5 million like he this okay and i don't know again if he's threatening her i have no idea but somehow he is just this enrico suave that like nobody is he like incredibly handsome or something?

The way they described it, which I think I actually mentioned later, is like that he was just very. What's the word? He had the eyes. Yeah, he had the eyes. I mean, I think he could just enamor women and like draw them in, which always like gets me because I'm like, really? Like that? I have yet to meet many people. I've maybe met like one or two people who like

just by looking at me i i would do almost anything well it's like just me right it's like kovu and you yeah christina as human drawing fanfic yeah um it's really kovu as a human and you as a lion it's just a weird mishmash oh man i'd be such a cute lion okay you'd be a very sweet lion but a little dimples and you'd say all your s's like z's be crazy i'd be like it's the kookiest lion of all all right so she got arrested didn't give him up and that was that so three years later engelman finally commits his last murder so january 14th, 1980, 50-year-old Sofia Barrera was killed by a car bomb. Wow. Another bomb?

Another bomb. So, wait, what was the first bomb? Wasn't the dynamite? The dynamite. Yeah, I forgot about the explosion. Yeah. I wonder if he was like, that was the more interesting way to do this. I'm going to go back and do it again or something.

Yeah, like I'm bored of shooting people. I don't know. Yeah, so he went back to the bomb. And what he did was 4.45 p.m., she, Sophie, left for work. Or sorry, left work and headed to a red Ford Pinto. And she hadn't clocked that something had been placed under her front left tire behind it. It's awful. I know.

So when she started the ignition and began reversing it triggered the bomb and it went off and killed her um and at the time it wasn't clear who was guilty of the murder right away but finally engelman was on the radar for this because they had actually started they had actually had him eyed for the initial murder of james bullock which was that first one which is where edna's husband was killed five months after they got married. And that was like 58 and now we're in 1980. So like, they had him kind of on the radar for that. So they didn't know about anything in between. But so since then, and now finally, they're like, okay, this guy has another connection, we're

going to bring him back into the circle. And the that sophie barrera was the owner of a south st louis dental laboratory to which engelman owed fourteen thousand dollars at the time made authorities a little bit suspicious so finally finally i know so sophie sophie barrera had even taken engelman to court over the dispute so like this was a well-known issue they were having with each other. And Sophie's son knew this as well. And so Sophie's son was like, I know exactly who this is. It's this Engelman fella who's been like fighting financially in the courts with my mother for so long. At least it's sorry.

At least it's like, I mean, I guess it comes from him being kind of a narcissist. Like he's gotten away with everything so far. Might as well like hit closer to home because this is so much more obvious i feel like than the last ones where he always had a middle person involved who who did the dirty work uh basically so yeah this was a very much a direct like you're probably right he probably just thought like well all the other ones worked so he was the main person who would have profited from sophie's death he was brought main person who would have profited from Sophie's death. He was brought in for questioning.

And although he refused to take a polygraph test, he chatted with the police for about three hours. And in this interview, according to Medical Murders podcast, he rallied against Sophie, denied any involvement in her death. He claimed he would have won the lawsuit and even said, I'm not sorry she's dead. She got what she deserved. Fucking idiot. Oh, my God. Yeah. What a psycho. won the lawsuit and even said i'm not sorry she's dead she got what she deserved oh fucking idiot oh my god yeah what a psycho what a terrible terrible terrible terrible sorry to use that word that should not be used out of medical context that was inappropriate but like what a horrifyingly inappropriate terrible man so investigators he's a dummy he's a dummy that's a better word he was he unfortunately

i guess maybe he was so narcissistic because he had an alibi which was that he was in his dental office the entire day of the bombing so investigators did let him go at first um and so he thought like well i'm off the hook but like i mean clearly they haven't caught him yet but at this point they're like well just because you were in the office doesn't mean someone else planted the bomb for you so finally they're getting to the point of like maybe someone else helped you out like it only took several years to start wondering if maybe we should like really like not listen to just whatever the first story is yes like he's just in with his patients oh well

like yeah exactly maybe he had help so they decide to interview his wife ruth engelman and according to court documents from murderpedia my favorite website uh ruth engelman who had since divorced so i guess ex-wife had since divorced um spoke to federal law enforcement authorities gave them information about her husband's past activities as she now feared for her life so ruth at this point is like i gotta give him up like this guy's messed up and i know it so and what turned out to be a 56 page statement i know i thought we talk a lot that's a book okay it's a book ruth told the police everything she knew about engelman's past and his murders so in the court documents on murderpedia it says at the request of the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms on february 14th 1980 she wore devices to allow certain

conversations between her and her former husband to be monitored and recorded and during these taped conversations engelman acknowledged his involvement with carmen miranda in a scheme to obtain money and that he had received ten thousand dollars from her brother nicholas miranda which was the one where he shot carmen's husband at the woods got it so he's just like blabbing to his ex-wife like about all these people he's murdered i'm glad the cockiness is finally catching up at the very least it usually, or at least the stories where it does are always so satisfying. Yeah. Or at least you're like, he's getting sloppy. I don't know if he's getting like cocky, but he's definitely getting sloppy.

He's definitely like full of himself to an extent. Yeah. So he also told his wife he'd like to quietly settle down and practice dentistry for a little. And he said, there's no possession on my part, no driving urgency to keep getting rid of my fellow man, which is like, so he's clearly on, he has a complex about like, it's not because I want to kill them, which is like, why would you insist on that

unless you did want to kill them? And so when Ruth pressed him for a reason for his murderous ways, he replied, money, money, money, money. He also talked of a nice camaraderie that you have and closeness with the women who help with the killings oh that's an interesting little right weird social twist yeah he likes the the bond the fellowship of it of murdering people and having like a secret with the women it's like forcing

them to trauma bond with you yes that's really awful and interestingly it's the women that he finds so he's having women kill their husbands which probably he gets off on like yeah i was like oh so gross wow i feel like that answer was in front of us this whole time but i never noticed i know it's kind of weird how it like suddenly fits it like clicks it's like oh you just wanted you kind of liked watching like a relationship crumble yeah the power of like being yeah yeah controlling it and it's so gross like it's like how narcissistic of like you want to be able to create something watch it be destroyed and in the middle convince the people in that thing you created like it's like a really fucked up game of sims of like i'm i'm gonna build you up from the very beginning

like get right in and infiltrate it with one of the people involved and destroy it from and it was never really a thing to begin with if it weren't for me and then profit off of it yeah oh my gosh and then like hold it against you so you can't and then when the woman goes to jail be like well you can't tell on me i mean it's all very dark wow so yeah terrible so with they have evidence now of him literally saying oh yeah i killed carmen miranda's husband and made money off it so they have this evidence now at least and um he was arrested february of 1980 not for the murder from a few weeks ago but the murder he committed four years ago which was the miranda husband because he admitted to that on tape so it was like okay

the husband at the woods. So as Engelman had been caught, people who had involvement with the crime started to kind of coming up, started to kind of come out of the woodwork and exchange information for immunity. Because again, he brought so many different people into his schemes. It was like bound to unravel. Yeah. Like put them all in one room by themselves and they're going to put these together really

quick. Like it's going gonna start falling apart and so carmen and her brother nick told all about engelman's early murders bob handy eventually admitted guilt and agreed to testify against engelman um so in engelman's trial partner of engelman's at the pacific drag strip named john newton carter i'm sorry carter also testified against engelman in regards to the death of eric fry you know who was pushed down a well and uh exploded with dynamite and carter revealed that engelman admitted to killing fry for the insurance proceeds and i'm like if you knew that why didn't you tell somebody before now yeah it feels like a lot of people like chose on their own to be

confidants for a really for very awful things yeah like really awful like hey remember that guy who worked here guess what i pushed him down a well and blew him up with dynamite anyway have a nice weekend it's happy hour like what it's like well you're gonna think like oh that guy's crazy well silly story at the drag strip anything goes like yeah i don't know where like where this like element of like yeah like you said confidant comes from maybe he really was just that smooth and that slick that like or maybe he really was like that like slippery that like when he would say things like you really couldn't tell if he was telling the truth or not people just kind of shrugged it off because they're

like there's no way that would really happen yeah because he was like that charming or whatever maybe yeah but that's another like sign of like his narcissism of like i could literally tell you to your face and you're not going to do anything about it he did which is just wild so carter was like yeah he admitted to it carmen miranda supported the testimony saying engelman had told her he had killed eric fry and divided the insurance proceeds with fry's widow and then in nicholas miranda who's the brother in his statement he spoke about how engelman had said during one of the attempts on holmes life um which is the husband so i guess you know when they shot him at the woods apparently

that was like not the first time they tried to kill him because the first time a dog barked at them and so he and bob handy had to run away okay i thought for a second like something like multiple traumas had happened to him no he was still like going into woods by himself no no no it was like they had attempted it but like the plot was foiled before it even started gotcha and handy didn't even dispute this and just said yes we did like we did try that and it did fail and blah blah blah so during the trial when thinking about engelman's motive um it was obvious there was financial gain but prosecutor gordon ankney drew everyone's attention to how all the crimes were quote sexual in nature

so ankney told the jury he says he does it for money but i think that's a front he never did it for enough to make it worthwhile he related homicidal intimacy with sexual intimacy which i was like whoa it's not fascinating it sounds like some criminal mind shit oh i get goose cam homicidal intimacy i was gonna say i got some very sharp cold chills yeah yuck so that was fascinating oh that makes total sense isn't that creepy and like fitting yeah so homicidal intimacy with sexual intimacy there was almost a sexual excitement about killing which is probably why he was so adamant that like oh it wasn't about killing because like he knew it was about killing yeah yeah and he's said to have quite a sexual drive he has a very macho image

of himself which i'm like i would don't fucking say yeah kel surprise yeah yesterday blaze was like what does kill surprise mean and i was like excuse me excuse me i'm glad that you're listening to the podcast but what what are you saying to me the month before september what are you saying all. Conversations between us must sound so dumb. Like, shit, outsiders. What are they talking about? Weird German lady. So an article by the New York Daily News describes how Engelman was said to have a hypnotic way with women. I was trying to come up with the word they used.

It was hypnotic. Hypnotic. And he would use that to coerce them into murder schemes. And with all this testimony against him, Glennon engelman was heading behind bars and because he knew it he fessed up to the murder of the goosewell oil fortune family including the parents um which barbara was like in prison for um did she ever get like out for that not that i know of i mean i i i don't know maybe eventually but to kill three people for financial motives doesn't seem like something you necessarily get out for so I don't know, maybe eventually, but to kill three people for financial motives doesn't seem like something you'd necessarily get out for. So I don't know.

But it didn't seem like this was a, it seemed like that was her destiny, which sucks. Fair, fair. But I feel like she so quickly would be like, retrial, please, or like, find a way to. Yeah. I can't believe she didn't dress up to him being involved. But who knows what he had on her or i mean i guess if she i guess during her first her original trial if they said like was anybody else involved and she said no then she kind of yeah she like kind of painted yeah exactly

like she kind of set the set it up to be just a solo yeah mission i'm sure at some point she was like damn i should have asked for a retrial if i'm like just sitting here and like maybe i only get 40 years instead of 50 years like some yeah maybe i mean and honestly i don't know i should probably look it up um it wasn't mentioned in the articles but maybe um sorry not me to sound i didn't mean to sound as shocked as i did i was just like i mean i'm shocked she didn't ask i'm shocked she didn't ask her retrial i mean you could probably argue like i was coerced by this hypnotic man into doing this i don't know um so he fessed up to those murders and his sentence which was going to be a double life term then

became a triple life term because he added the goosewell family to the murder victims he was sentenced to another 30 years and he was never actually charged with that the first murder the bullock shooting his ex-wife's husband really which is odd because that was the one that they had already pegged him for in the beginning but i guess he was just never in charge with it and they had they were like they're like after three life sentences like why even bother going through this which always kind of bothers me because it's like i feel like that's still someone's life yeah exactly like that's still closure for someone's family or whatever but you know i guess not i guess he never got charged and gordon ankney uh he who i met who i quoted earlier he also said

most believed he was a kindly old dentist in south st louis but he is a dr engelman and Mr. Hyde. It's like, oh, God. Interesting. Interesting creative license there. Yeah, you really went for it with that one. He looked around the courtroom like, eh, anybody? He was like, eh, eh? I worked really hard on that line. So March 3rd, 1999, Glennon Engelman, age 71, died behind Jefferson City prison bars due to complications from diabetes.

And in the years prior to his death, his sister, Melody, had said to a source called UPI, he's just getting old, old and sick. He's lost a toe, lost it last year, and he has a hole in his neck. You can almost put a couple fingers in it, which is like, oh, dear goodness gracious. Oh, my God. It's been a rough time. it which is like oh dear goodness gracious my god it's been a rough time while at jefferson city prison engelman refused to do many interviews but in one of the rare interviews he did do the reporter said that he was highly intelligent with an iq near 140 he liked talking about parapsychology and signs of the zodiac well sadly in another world we might have been i was gonna

say that sounds kind of like what we talk about uh yeah he was also mightily cocky saying things like let's face it i'm a celebrity jesse james the dalton gang and dr engelman it's like nobody says that but yeah like please tell me where you got that quote cite your source yeah say your source is it your brain probably jesse james and the killer driller you know know, it's all. Here we go. Oh, my God. It's like, oh, nice try, though, bud. So anyway, that's the story of the killer dentist who actually didn't kill people in the dentist chair, which is what it sounds like. That's what I thought was going to happen this whole time.

I feel like I did kind of prepare that with saying like oh he's dauntophobia killer dentist but um no it was just on the outs you know dentistry was just his day day job well now next time you're going to the dentist you can wonder if they've committed some other acts don't ask them while you're there because i feel like you're in a in a vulnerable position in that chair um don't ask them if they've ever watched wiley coyote and gotten ideas you know if they know how to use dynamite um all right do you have an answer to my my i do does this come out this sunday or next sunday next sunday oh okay next sunday so next sunday actually i've already said this but it's the eggo waffle box from stranger things 17 to 18 inches let's see what 80s nostalgia is so it's a moon boot

moon boots wow i that's a moon boot is literally like an astronaut foot that's a massive thing yeah uh my cousin when we were younger this does not make me look good but when i was younger my little cousin who like desperately was trying to impress me which like i was only like one year older but i was like i'm very fed up with her and i told her she could only impress me if she skateboarded while riding oh um while in moon boots and she took one wrap around the cul-de-sac and she broke her arm and I feel really bad about it but broke her arm oh god any anything to impress me I guess which was so sad now in hindsight I'm like oh that's not cool but as a kid I was I don't think she remembers breaking her arm but i don't think

she remembers like the the context someone's about to remind her nobody knows which cousin it is oh boy she does that's a challenge but uh but no i i remember her being like hang out with me and i was like i'll hang out with you once you moon boot skateboard and then she didn't get to hang out with me because we had to go to the hospital so yeah you got to hang out with her at the hospital you got the ultimate she got what she wanted to hang out with me just we didn't plan it to be did you sign her past no em you came up with that answer very fast you don't even have to think because i've thought about it to be fair no one asked if i think probably my mom and my aunt were mad at me and so they didn't even let me like enjoy the fun part of the cast i guess i wouldn't give my kid a sharpie either i'd be like you don't have sharpie privileges today especially like i mean it was like my aunt's kid imagine like zandy's

kid telling your kid like go break your arm and i'll be impressed you know like i think if you like you don't get to sign the cast yeah that's a fair point m you're right you're completely right anyway sorry anyway on that note i love these like fun little side side stories um so yeah uh ego waffles and uh moon boots. If you learned anything today, maybe avoid the dentist and also don't skateboard in moon boots. Yeah, and don't avoid the dentist because you should probably keep your teeth

dental hygiene in check. If they're a murder suspect, maybe avoid them for a little bit. Check them on Yelp first. Maybe. Check out maybe ZocDoc and see what's going on. Just check ZocDoc and see.

All right, and that's why we drink.