And That's Why We Drink - E412 Leona’s Ghost and High Definition Palm Sweat

Episode Date: December 29, 2024

It’s Episode 412 where all gifts are from Funcle Em! This week Em takes us to Australia for the wild story of the Knowles Family UFO Incident. Then Christine brings us to California for a dark story that will leave your jaw on the floor, the case of Polly Klaas. And will someone let us know where that lady was going?? …and that’s why we drink! The Pour Decisions Tour is going back on the road this Spring! Like a Lady in White, we’ll be popping up everywhere - from Seattle to Boston. Grab your tickets today at https://www.andthatswhywedrink.com/live !For ways to order our new book: A Haunted Road Atlas: Next Stop visit https://bit.ly/hranextstop ______________________ DraftKings is offering a warm welcome to new players with $100 INSTANTLY IN CASINO CREDITS with just a $10 wager. Plus, EVERYONE can get in on the action with a holiday reward every week! So, sign up with code ATWWD because the holiday cheer is here! Only on DraftKings Casino. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling call 888-789-7777 or visit CCPG.org. Please play responsibly. 21+. Physically present in Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia only. Void in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. New customers only. Opt-in required. Casino Credits are non-withdrawable and expire in 168 hours. Terms at http://casino.draftkings.com/promos Stop putting off those doctors appointments and go to http://zocdoc.com/DRINK to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. Treat yourself this winter without the luxury price tag. Go to http://quince.com/drink for 365-day returns, plus free shipping on your order.MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/DRINK for the current offer. Stress less, sleep more, and live better with Calm. For listeners of our show, Calm is offering an exclusive offer of 40% off a Calm Premium Subscription at http://calm.com/DRINK Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, Em, have you ever had sleep paralysis on your Helix mattress? No, because it's so cozy. But I will tell you what I have had on my Helix mattress, and that is a good effing nap. Yeah, it is a good nap bed. I never thought I was a nap person, but that's the only bed that I can actually take naps on. It's very comfortable.

There's truly nothing that made me more excited. I mean, I have talked on the show about getting that bed frame, but I mean, no such thing as a nice bed frame without a nice mattress to pair with. That's right. It needs its own throne to sit upon. Yes. The first nap in this place. Oh man, game changer. And that was all because of Hillock's sleep. I love that thing. And I had it before, I never said this a million times, but I had it before we ever actually even had them as a sponsor. So it was like extra exciting. I was like, I have so much to say, thank you for coming aboard because I've already experienced this for several years and I love it.

So anyway, we're obviously big fans of Helix. We can't promise there will be no sleep paralysis, but you know, worth a shot. Go to helixsleep.com slash drink for 25% off site wide plus two free dream pillows with any mattress purchase. That's helixsleep.com slash drink. Dream pillows with any mattress purchase. That's helixsleep.com slash drink. This episode is brought to you by HelloFresh. Be honest, between meetings, workout classes, and the kids' clubs, who's got time to cook? That's where HelloFresh comes in. No matter how busy you get, HelloFresh makes it easy to get a home-cooked meal on the table.

With flavor-packed recipes like crispy chicken parmigiana, you'll be filling your kitchen with the cozy aromas of a homemade meal in no time. Visit hellofresh.ca and use code Spotify for your exclusive offer. ["The Gossip Room"] Welcome to, and that's why we drink, not, and this is why we drink, not, and this is why I drink, not, and that's why I drink, not, ATTWD.

There's been all sorts of iterations of our show, but it is ATWWD and we're here today to bring you the hard-hitting news that we bring you every week. So thank you for joining us. Hmm, that was beautiful. Thank you. Did someone recently fuck it up again in front of you? No, and I feel bad because it took me 10 years

to figure out what our show is called. So I'm not trying to critique anyone, but we had this wonderful tattoo artist named Ash who did my most recent little like angel numbers and my Mothman and she's just wonderful and she's so talented, but we did a show in San Diego and she made like a flash sheet for podcast listeners. And I like, I mean, the gasp that came out of me

when she showed me the iPad with all the like little drawings and they had this Capri Sun, which was my absolute favorite. And did you see it? Yeah, it's like a little Capri Sun and it had a T W D but it was like a I T and I was like, what does that say? Like I couldn't figure out what it said. And then I was like, duh, it's like, and that's why I drink I think like she like put the wrong and so I was like, Hey, and she's like, I knew I would fuck it up. It's so many words. And I was like, it's not you., I think. Like she like put the wrong. And so I was like, hey, and she's like, I knew I would fuck it up. It's so many words.

And I was like, it's not you, it's us. We made a podcast with like eight words and my brothers in my podcast also is a bajillion words. I don't know why I do this to myself. Because you're a yapper. I can't stop myself. Anyway, I do. You're trying to come up with the title of something

and you're just like, well, maybe it's this, this and this and this and this and this. I should just add a little more words, a little more description. Let me over explain just to make sure everyone understands. That doesn't sound like me. I'm okay. I'm still recovering from my cold and I think I'm losing my voice.

Oh, you'd be sexy like Phoebe Buffay. My babies, yes. Well, I'm worried because we have three days of recording to do. We do have that. That is true. I'm wondering how that's going to look by the end. But for now, I've got my voice. And that's that, I guess.

I went to the wedding. How was Deirdre's wedding? It feels very like a milestone in the podcast. It was a good wedding with good cake. That's all I care about. Okay. I had only four bites though. I got a small slice.

I was not excited about that. But how about you? What'd you do since we last talked? Well, I guess I'll just jump in and tell you why I drink if that's okay. Oh, sure. My heart is- That's why I drink. That's why I drink, by the way and tell you why I drink, if that's okay. Oh, sure. That's why I drink. That's why I drink, by the way.

That is why you drink, because you've met some partners that were hopefully winners and were just duds, and we're gonna gossip about it in the Yappy Hour. On Patreon, so anyone who feels connected to this story in any way whatsoever, besides me, let's go join on Patreon later, and we'll discuss it after the show.

Side note, yeah, why I drink, actually not side note, primary bullet point, it's happened. My heart is pounding, my palms are sweating. Leona said to me yesterday, I shit you not. She said, mommy, where's that lady going? Please, Christine. I don't know if you can see, you know how I told you, I have a new camcorder set up. My palms, I'm like.

High definition sweat on your hands. High 4K sweat beading on my face. Where's that lady going? What was she looking? So I told Blaze about this last night. We had a very intense conversation because Blaze was like, oh no, oh no, oh no. And I was like, he goes,

well, maybe could there have been a reflection? And so then I like looked where she had been sitting and I was like, nope, she was looking up the, so we're sitting in the little dining room and I'm organizing her coloring supplies and she's just like coloring on Cat Rat, the cat, the villain from Gabby's Dollhouse. And she's like coloring, calling,

and she kind of glances up, I shit you not over my shoulder. And we just have like kind of the entryway in the big room there. And she just goes, where's that lady going? And I was like, it's happening, it's happening, it's happening, it's happening. Everybody stay calm.

And so I was like- You sound like Eva when the car started losing gas. Yeah. Everything's happening now and we're all just going to sit. Everything I've ever imagined is happening right now. We're coasting into hell. That was like us in the car in New Hampshire too, just like slowly careening to our doom. And she's sitting there, she goes, where's that lady going?

And I was like, ah, who are you talking about? Which lady? And she's like, she's my friend. And I went, oh boy. No, she's not. Oh boy. And I said, of course, well, is she nice to you? And Leona said, yes.

And I said, okay, if you're ever uncomfortable around her, you just tell her that and you can tell me. But as long as she's nice to you and is friendly or whatever, it's okay." And she goes... Please, I can't wait. Say it slowly. She goes, well, she's just the wife. And I went, what?

I so beg your pardon. And she has like a little lisp, right? And I saw I'm like, she's a what? The life? And she goes, no, the wife. And I said, she's a wife? But like, it didn't occur to me right away because I'm like, that's a what? The life? And she goes, no, the wife. And I said, she's a wife? But it didn't occur to me right away because I'm like, that's not a word Leona uses really.

We don't, I mean, I'm sure she knows what, oh, I don't know if she knows what a wife is apparently, but she goes, yeah, she's the wife. And I'm like, whose wife? And she's like, the guy. And I was like, okay. So then I started asking questions like, oh, well, what are their names? And then she just started making up gibberish sounds. And I was like, okay. So then I started asking questions like, oh, what are their names?

And then she just started making up gibberish sounds. And I was like, okay, she's lost it. So annoying, I need you to be on task, girl. I know, I was like, focus, focus. But I do have an emergency voice memo button on the side of my phone. So when she starts talking, I just, boop, hit that button so I can verbatim hear what she's saying.

Cause I don't wanna like twist it later. Cause later I told Blaise a story and I kept saying that Leona said, where did that lady come from? Which sounds a lot scarier. But when I like really thought back, I was like, no, no, no. She didn't say that. She said, where is she going?

And I was like, hopefully far, far away. But yeah, I didn't know. And I said, what's she wearing? And Leona was like, I don't know. And so she just kind of stopped talking about it. But she was almost like sheepish to tell me, which was weird. I don't like that. Yeah, and she was like kind of shy about it.

Almost like, she's like, where's that lady going? You know, my friend. Or maybe she was like, oh shit, like we're talking about this too much. Like maybe this is something I'm supposed to not be so chill about. Yeah, it was almost like she was like, she was like, hey, you know, my friend that we've never talked about. Anyway, so it's a very strange encounter. And I don't know, she's also been

getting much better at like imagining and pretend playing. So I'm like, maybe she invented some story. But for now, I am on high alert and I've got my voice memo recording emergency button ready in case she says something else so that I can report back. But for now, the wife is doing okay. Okay. She could be in the room with you right now. And how the hell would I even know without Leona

that I'm telling you? Have you said anything out loud to her? No, I don't believe I have. God, I would be screaming in every room. I'd be like, girl, you can stay, but you gotta be nice. Other than that, it's about to get weird. We're gonna bring priests in. You better look out.

I'm not bringing any priests into my home, I'm sorry. The, something has to go extremely wrong before I bring a Catholic priest or any priest into my home. I'll tell you what. Anyway, so we're good over here, just chilling, coloring, talking to our friends. Obviously you have to ask her to draw a picture of the lady.

Well, Leona doesn't know how to draw a picture of a circle, so I don't think we're gonna get very far with that. Failure as a parent, this is the exact moment she needs to know how to draw. This is what you should have been prepping her for. Well, listen, the girl loves to draw. It's just she has her own method of doing so, and it's usually just scratching at the paper

until holes form in it. Oh, that sounds exactly like your kid. Coloring walls and clothing. So I don't think we're gonna get very far with that, except if you wanna see a really nice scribble, and then imagine maybe that's a lady in a Victorian dress we can try that but yeah anyway so that's why I drink as of yesterday you know another reason why I drink is because I was realizing how far I've made it with Leona in terms of our relationship. Really far. Because Deirdre has a kid and he is a year and a half,

so he hasn't hit the sweet spot yet where I care, you know what I mean? Uh-huh, uh-huh. I mean, I know that's mean to say, but also like I know I'm not good with him at this point, so I haven't made an effort, you know what I'm saying? But once he hits like two-ish, that's when I get my groove and that's when all of a sudden Funko M comes out. I can't wait until you have a child and you're

like, I'm just gonna wait till it's two, because right now it's just not my thing. I do know. I'm just not vibing with him until he's like, can talk to me. I do know when I have a kid, we will have a rough patch until he's about two and I'll love him, but we won't be as close as we will later. Like I know where I stand. Allison can be the favorite for years zero to two, and then for two to eternity I'll be the best. No, you know you'll be the favorite because you're obviously more removed. That's how this works. Is that how it works?

Oh yeah. Well, see, then it actually works out very well. Honestly, it might be for the best. But no, I'm not good with babies. I'm great with toddlers. And I know that that it actually works out very well. Honestly, it might be for the best. But no, I'm not good with babies. I'm great with toddlers. And I know that that's where I'm firmly set. Deirdre has a baby who has yet to become a toddler. And so him and I are not totally vibing.

And I kept saying to her when we were hanging out, I was like, just wait. Just wait. Eventually, it'll get there. I promise someday this will be beautiful. But not only is he a little baby, but he's also a little baby who is also sick. And so that was a sick baby who I'm not bonding with.

And so- I know how much you love germs. I tried, well, and also like, who am I to talk? Like I'm obviously sick too, but it was a different sick, I guess. Anyway, I kept trying to hang out with him and then he would sneeze and I just go, like I looked like the worst,

I looked like the worst person to be around a baby. I felt so bad. So anyway, Deirdre, if you're listening, this is my, in advance, just warning you again, Luca and I will be chill eventually. It just has to be a little later in time. We just need, we need to get through our own personal journeys. And can confirm, Leona and I were not close,

and then we became very close, right? That's right. Yeah, you did show up in a whirlwind of toys and drawing and just a lot of gummy bears and Frozen musicals. So yeah, she really... Bribery helps. You swept her off her feet is one way to put it.

Bribery helps being able to relate to them with silly shows that helps, dance parties helps. But right now he's just like kind of bumping into things. Just there. He's kind of figuring it out. And once he figures it out, then we'll be fine. So I drink because I still feel awkward that my best friend my childhood best friends baby And I are not bonding, but I know in time

It'll and also like it's weird if you're not just spending all the time with them Like if you were with the baby every day you'd be like oh or like see them every weekend for brunch or something You'd be like oh, I'm like listen. I clock this baby. I know what we're about But like yeah, you're probably like, who the hell are you? Yeah, I can't wait until I become the elusive random friend of the family who just brings gifts and leaves. Like I do with Leona. Yeah, I mean, I told you elusive, I wish.

Yeah, I was just telling you that Leona calls everything a gift from Funko Lam because like at this point, we don't know who gave, well I do, but she certainly doesn't care to know who gave her what, everything's just from Funko M. And then I said, oh no, this one was from, and she goes, oh no, that one was from Funko Renee. And I went, okay, I guess we got Funko M, Funko Renee,

and those are the only two. You know, I think Funko is a title of honor where it means that you've hit a threshold others have not. So if Renee has hit Funkle, that's good for her. I don't think she's thrilled about it, but that's okay. Well, sorry, Renee. Sorry that you're so good that you've been given a different rank.

Whoops. Hey, you should be happy because this means that you're going to keep the sole title of Funkle. Great. I can't wait. Anyway, so I'm excited to have another little kid to be friends with one day. It's just Luke and Leona. I'm already planning their friendship. Every single baby I know starts with an L. Every single baby. Yes.

I thought you know one named like Adele. Oh yeah. But there's Luke. That was the only one I could think of. I'm trying to get a little bit of Leo, Liam, Lily. They're all it's all odds. Yeah. Is Leo, Leo now or differently? Oh, different.

Luca, Leo, Leona, Liam, Lily. Yeah, Lou, Lily, Luke. Luke? No, I was trying to think, can I already say that name? I'm just teasing. Anyway, and then Adele, okay. I mean, listen, I know, I get it now.

It's when I use it, all the babies I know, I'm like, I only know one other baby you know, whose name does not start with an L. So I was not trying to play devil's advocate. I really was just trying to think of what babies you knew, but I don't know the other ones. It's it's a lot else So yeah, yeah, yep Draft Kings is offering a warm welcome to new players with $100 instantly in casino credits with just a $10 wager plus everyone can get in on the action with a holiday reward every week

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You just gotta go over to ZocDoc and you will find someone like that. And not only that, I used your ZocDoc, doctor. That's right. I said, oh, you gotta find Dr. Java. She's on ZocDoc. And I'm like, what are you saying to me? Are you having a stroke? I said, no, sit down. I gotta tell you about ZocDoc doctor. That's right. I said, Oh, you gotta find Dr. Java. She's on ZocDoc. And I'm like, what are you saying to me? Are you having a stroke? I said, no, sit down. I got to tell you about ZocDoc. And this was like 2017. So you know that this was something

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Anyway, I have a story for you before my voice totally dims like the candle at the end of Hanukkah. Oh no. I feel like the family's just gathering around as I slowly fade away. You're like decrepit. You're just falling into pieces. Everyone's amazed that I'm still here at all. It's been like eight days.

My voice is... And honestly, we're all kind of getting over it. We're like, okay. It's like, honestly, if it were dark in here, it'd be better. Yeah. Why is this about you again, honestly? Again.

Okay, let's see if I can get through this. I honestly don't know. I'm telling you in advance, I'm sorry about my voice. I can't wait to see what happens if you don't get through it. I don't know what that means, but I'm really looking forward to finding out. Well, I feel like my voice is just starting to sound like a printer that's running out of ink.

It's just... Oh, the toner, it's just like the... Yeah, the lines, yeah. So... It's turning pink. While we've got the chance, let me tell you a UFO story. Oh!

This is the Knowles family UFO incident. I don't know this one. I don't know this one. Now that's good. Thanks. I worked on it for days. Did you? Oh no. It's happening. Oh boy. Okay. Quickly, we're in Australia.

Get a Ricola! Uh, do I have one? Ricola. Ricola. I don't have one? Ricola. Ricola. I don't have one. Shit. Shit. What the hell did you just unzip?

My bag of goodies. Oh my God, all of a sudden Em literally just looks down one inch and unzips something and goes, nope, no Ricola. I'm like, what are you looking inside? Your kangaroo pouch? What's happening? You just have like a bag of goodies in your lap. I do have, it's my bag of medicinal goods.

Ooh! I know, you'd like to go fishing in there, I bet. I was gonna say, I would, except you said you lost your Xanax and you can't find a Ricola. So what use is that bag to me ever? A lot of reasons to drink today, I think. Yeah.

Okay, we're in Australia. We're with the Knowles family. It is a mom and her three adult sons. Her name is Faye and her sons are Patrick, Sean, and Wayne. And when I say adults, I mean like around college age. Okay. And apparently their two dogs are in this car as well. They're all driving.

Damn. And they're driving from Perth to Adelaide, which is a long fucking drive. Let's put it that way. A long, long drive. Across the country is how it seems. Okay. And they're driving through this area called the Nullarbar Plain, which is essentially this long isolated stretch of like desert road. Like it's just like highway or route 66 kind of like it just looks like you're driving through nothing and this is in 1988 different sources said it was between 145 in the morning to like 530 in the morning so it's a wide stretch why are they all in the car they're

driving why at four in the morning or three in the morning? I think one source was like, oh, they just need to get out of town. And another one was like, they're literally moving. And another one- Okay, I feel like moving is the only thing that makes sense. Cause I just looked it up. It's literally a 28 hour drive. That's what I'm saying, a cross country.

It's not across the country, which is the craziest part. It's literally just like this. That's how big this motherfucking country is apparently. Holy shit. Okay, so it's down the coast, I see. 28 hours and it's not even all the way across the GD country. It's a straight shot, 28 hours, which by the way, folks, 2700 kilometers about.

Yeah, so they must be, so they probably must be moving or going on some big trip because why would you bring all your brothers and your dogs? And your dogs, yeah. Yeah, okay, sorry. When you said like one in the morning, I was like, what are they doing out there? And one article said it was they were driving to Melbourne,

which is apparently like another eight hours. So- Oh, for God's sake, these people. It's a big country. So they're driving to Adelaide. They're driving through the Nullarber, Nullarber plane. And it's somewhere in the middle of the night. Most sources said around like three in the morning. And this event allegedly lasted 90 minutes.

I don't believe that because it sounds like it was a really quick experience, but also they lost time. Ah, missing time. I guess that would make it 90 minutes. But Sean is the 21 year olds in the car. He was driving at this point and when he was driving, he sees this big, bright glowing ball ahead of them.

And the light was bright white, it had yellow in the center, and the light was kind of jumping up and down a bit, like it was almost bouncing over the road. And the light began to come towards them, which seemed like, oh, it's after us. But then he realized it looked like it was almost following a car that was passing them. Oh, make sense. So it's like coming at them. But really, it's a car, it's after us. But then he realized it looked like it was almost following a car that was passing them Oh make sense. So it's like coming at them, but really it's a car passing them and it's following But it was coming at them from behind what they thought it was No, like if you're driving and you're looking ahead and the light is there and it's coming towards you

It looks like it's coming at your car But it was the fact that there was another car on the side of the road that was passing them. Oh, in the other direction? In the other direction. Oh, I see, okay, okay, gotcha. So although it looked like it was coming at them, it was actually following another car going the opposite way. Got it, got it, got it.

And so for a second, they panic, because they're like, ah, there's this light coming at us. Then it passes by as another truck does. And some stories said that Sean got curious and did a U-turn to like follow the light because he wanted to know like what this thing was and where it was going. Other stories say that they minded their damn business,

but the light itself did a U-turn. That would be my big fear. Like, please, please don't notice me. Please don't notice me. If you keep following that truck, I'm sure there's really exciting like frozen shrimp in there or something you could find but please leave us out of it i don't know leave us out of it but yeah so uh i'm gonna go with the light does a fucking u-turn and fuck with something and shawn obviously starts freaking out he like

he's doing that thing where he's trying to pay attention to the road, but he's also looking in the rear view mirror and he's like, Oh my God, Oh my God, and it's he's kind of trying to subtly start speeding up subtly. Maybe like maybe I'll just move a little faster for us. And guess what? The light is keeping pace with the now eventually catching up with them. Sean starts freaking out. He's driving a little faster. The thing can keep up with them. Eventually, Sean is like pedal to the car. No. Eventually catching up with them. Sean starts freaking out. He's driving a little faster.

The thing can keep up with them. Eventually, Sean is like pedal to the metal. He's driving as fast as he can because he's like, get this thing away from me. Like, can another car pass so it gets distracted by that thing? He starts panicking. He's now driving about 125 miles an hour,

like flooring his car. I wonder if his family's awake at this point. I feel like I would wake up if the car was moving that fast, but maybe I wouldn't. I would wake, also, if I were driving, I would wake everyone up. You'd be like, guys, can you keep an eye on that thing? You motherfucking brothers of mine,

I've been driving all night, wake the fuck up and help me figure out what to do. Well, so the light, obviously, it's growing bigger as it approaches them, and eventually it's right on them. And when I say on them, I mean, it's literally hovering over their car while they're driving 125 miles an hour and it's keeping pace. The whole family at this point is awake

and I imagine it's just screams in that car, the poor dogs. Dogs, oh no. And the whole family all of a sudden feels the car shift and this heaviness pressing into the roof of their car. And they realize that whatever this light is, it is now grabbing their car. So they're like getting like the claw, like Chachungka. The claw. They're gonna pick you up.

Oh my God. My nightmare. And the heaviness pressing down into the roof of their car is like the heavy, the weight of this thing pressing into the ground. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. They hear this loud clunking sound, probably a big ass claw grabbing their car. And Sean can no longer control the car

and not in a way where like they're swerving, but like he's literally steering in the car. There's nothing happening. So in theory, that means the car is off in a way where like they're swerving, but like he's literally steering in the car. There's nothing happening. So in theory, that means the car is off of the road. Like imagine it's like you're in a toy. Like it's like, oh, somebody like some big kid like picked up your toy and lifted you in the air and suddenly your wheels are just spinning. Like it feels like you're nothing more than just a little play thing.

Yes. An object to be used. Yes. just spinning, like it feels like you're nothing more than just a little play thing. Yes, an object to be used, yes. But so he's trying to drive, car's not doing anything. And so the car's, as far as we know, being picked up into the air. And I don't know what makes her think to do this, but Faye, the mom, she rolls down the window to try to swat away whatever's grabbing their car.

I didn't remember the mom was in there too, Jesus. So they're all in there, okay. Yeah, oh, I would be scared too. I'd be normally scared if it was just me, but also if it were my mom, I'd feel this extra sense of like, want to protect them. And I'm sure the mom feels the same way about her kids. And also if the mom is scared,

there's an extra element of like, uh-oh, even mom doesn't know what the fuck to do. Now we're really screwed. So Faye rolls down the window, she tries to swat away this thing grabbing the car, which straight out of a horror movie, dumbest thing you can do, because it's gonna like rip your arm off

for some shit, I would think. I mean, swatting at it probably won't work, although I imagine this was probably a instinctual response. Yes, which is weird, because a instinctual response. Yes. Which is weird because my instinctual response is fetal position. No, I was about to say, I would have crawled

onto the floor of the car and rolled into a ball, but I love that she's like, I'll get him. So, the dark, there's this dark smoke that billows in when she rolls down the window. Oh, no. And so now also, thank God almost you can't drive because can you imagine trying to drive through black smoke? Yeah, then you're all screwed. The smoke also had a decomposing smell.

Good. That came pouring into the windows. And when she stuck her hand out of the car and on top of the roof to swap this thing away, she felt something spongy. Okay, but so I'm so glad she did. I know I bitched about it already, but I'm so glad she did do it,

because how would we even know that? Like, that's such a creepy, fascinating... Spongy. ...tip, tip it. Spongy? So much worse than whatever I thought it was going to be. So much worse! Like, so sick. Like, is it wet spongy?

Oh, on top of the... Like, what does it mean? Is that it's how it, like, adhesive? Is that the adhesive they use? Yeah, or is of the, like, what does it mean? Is that it's how it like adhesive, is that the adhesive they use? Yeah, or is it like a suction cup that she's feeling? A suction cup, yeah. So the family- It's worse than the claw. I know, I was like, if it were metal,

at least I saw that coming. Yeah. So the family heard this high pitched buzzing in the car and they think it might have been the machine grabbing their car, like the metal on metal, maybe making a rattling or something, but they hear this high-pitched buzzing in the car. It causes them to feel really disoriented,

and they don't know if it's like a pressure change or something, but soon they hear their own voices being distorted. Uh-oh. One, they realize that their voices are slowing down. And their screams sound like... Ew! Terrifying.

Also, does that actually give us confirmation of time stopping? That, well, I was going to say that. I was like, it sounds like that thing where it's like hyper speed, and so you feel like everything's really slow. Mm, yeah. Or when they say, like, you lose time with an alien, is it like, do they actually,

do they have a memory of the time being manipulated? And that was the moment that it was getting, like, adjusted? And that's when they that it was getting like adjusted. And that's when they felt like they were disoriented and everything started feeling distorted and slowing down. Yuck. That's so, dude, that's so unsettling. One of them, I think it was Faye, it might have been one of the sons, one of them said, in this moment it felt like my brain was being sucked out. No, come on.

It felt like something was going into our heads. And then they said they felt like they were dying. And this is when they lose track of time. What the fuck, dude? Feeling your brain get sucked out is crazy. What a very specific and absolutely horrific thing to describe. And you know what is so toxic about me is that I believe I know what that feels like. I hear brain getting sucked out and I'm like, oh, I can imagine that.

I get it. That happens to me every day. What's the big deal? Like, I don't know why I think I... One time I got hand, foot and mouth disease, guys. So I think I can handle it. And to this day, I do believe that's true. I can handle most things after that fucking disaster. I'm fully aware. I'm saying none of this with any sort of irony whatsoever. Worst week of my life or one of them, certainly.

Okay, let's hope that that remains the worst week of your life. I can't wait to show that to your little baby and go, look what you've done to me. Look what you did. Yeah, well, I'm sure she's gonna feel absolutely terrible. I'll wait till she's emotional. We can play my childbirth video after

and then you can try to complain again. Look what you did to me, yeah. You know what's toxic about me? Yeah, but anyway, you can tell me if you'd rather. I feel like that hand foot and mouth disease Absolutely equates to birth obviously. Yeah the labor and hand foot mouth disease same experience I'm just so glad we're finally getting it out On audio for recording so I can listen back and feel like I'm not absolutely losing my mind certainly the same Mental torment at least certainly the exact same at At very least. At the very least.

Yeah. Certainly the lasting damage and the psychological damage. Yeah, it's all pretty much the same, I would say. I agree 100%. Don't show this to your therapist though, because she'll say that we should stop being friends. I would never, I would never do that. So.

I know better by now being friends with you this long. To keep me in hiding. Yeah, I know better by now, being friends with you this long. To keep me in hiding. Yeah, I know better than to just display the things that you do and say. I had some wild thought recently and I was like, oh, that's too far. I was like, that's too tall. I love that.

You should get one of these shadow journal books because you can write whatever you want in there and it's supposed to be normal. The awareness is kicking in folks, don't worry. Isn't that fun? So, they're blacked out it seems. And just that's how I felt after you gave birth and I had hand foot mouth disease.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had to care for all of you. It was a really scary day. It was bad for me, not you though. But. No, no, I was just trying my best to help out. You're having a parade over there. You're having an easy breezy day.

I mean, I was on drugs prescription from the hospital. Jealous. Yeah. So things were not as bad as they could seem. Okay, so they hear voices distorting and they feel the car getting picked up. They feel something spongy on top. Their brains are getting sucked out, which we all know how that feels.

Sure, sure, sure, we've all been there. And next thing they knew, the UFO, I'm assuming at this point is what it is, the UFO is violently shaking the car. So it really had a trust in its own grip on that car. It was like, now I'm gonna shake it like it's- Get your hand off the suction cup. Like I'm Darla and this is a bag of fish.

Right, it is Darla. Oh my God, you're right. And honestly, if they were blacked out or their brains are getting sucked out and they were incapacitated, they probably looked like the fish in that bag. Yes, they sure did. And she's like, get your hands off.

The UFO's like, why are you sleeping? Wake up, wake up, knock, knock, knock. And then although they felt the car violently shaking, which maybe because they were, I'm guessing they were, either they were blacked out or they were kind of losing consciousness, that's how I'm understanding it, maybe the car being violently shaken

actually did kind of bring them back because the next thing they remember is the car's wheels making contact with the ground again. Oh, so maybe that was like their wake up call. Maybe, what a fucking bad wake up call. Good morning. Hello. Hello.

Hello. But the thing is when they remember the car's wheels making contact with the ground again, the heavy handedness of the UFO pressing the car back into the ground caused one of the tires to blow out. Oh my god! So it is like Darla and she just popped the fucking bag on the way down. Yes exactly. Just like dropped it on the concrete. Great. Exactly. Because I mean I guess if the UFO like doesn't know how gingerly it has to put the car back down if it presses too hard then boom.

Right it makes sense that it would just like smash it down by accident. And after that, the UFO disappeared. So, but here's the thing, because I hear tire blowout and I think, oh my God, they're for sure going to like swerve everywhere and die. Yeah. But Sean somehow regains control of the car. They were still moving? Oh, I thought like they just set them down and like on the side of the car. They were still moving? Mm-hmm. Oh, I thought like they just set them down

and like on the side of the road. No, I guess the whole time the UFO was moving and this whole thing happened. What in the fuck is that for? So that's what I'm- They were gonna do that to a semi truck? I know, well that shows you how strong it must be. Yeah, that's alarming.

Maybe it was like, that's an easier target. Let's turn around. It's bigger, yeah. Yeah. Or it's smaller. Smaller's smaller. So maybe Sean, the thing I'm most blown away by is that like, if the car was still moving at 125 miles an hour, and then they put the car down and the tire blew out,

like you're having a blowout at 125 miles an hour. Like your car should be all over the fucking place and everyone should be dead. Right? 125 miles per hour. Yeah. Not kilometers an hour. Like your car should be all over the fucking place and everyone should be dead, right? 125 miles per hour? Yeah. Not kilometers per hour? No, it was 200 kilometers per hour. Jesus, why are they going so fast?

Cause remember he was- Trying to get away from the thing? Yeah, they were trying to get away from it. Then they got picked up. Oh. And when they regained consciousness, they were still going that fast and they put the car down and the tire blew out.

That's just crazy. I mean, but if a tire, well, you could have still the wheel intact and still drive. I mean, I've had tires blow out on the highway and it's like you can, you don't necessarily, I mean, if I had just been thrown out of a UFO, yeah, maybe I'd swerve, but like, I think just the tire popping, you could probably maintain. Well, somehow Sean did. So he regained control of the car. The car stops, I guess, in the middle of the road.

And the family just runs out of the car. They're like, get the fuck out! And they're in the middle of a remote stretch of desert, basically. So they don't have anywhere to go, but they hide behind bushes for like 15 minutes. Part of me is like, you've got to think that the aliens were like these fucking humans, really. We just pick them up with a giant spongy suction cup and now they're hiding behind a bush like

they're gonna save them. They think we can't see them behind the one bush in a big vast desert. It's so sad. It feels like a little mouse who got scared and like ran up to hide under a bush. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh my God. It's so cringy.

Part of me is like, did the dogs also know to hide behind the bush or like are they just running in circles doing laps? Were the dogs like, weeee? So they hid behind the bush for like 15 minutes and when they felt like the UFO probably wasn't going to come back, which like I guess if there's nothing but sky, I guess you can take a look around and guess. And hopefully it's like coming up on morning. Like maybe when the sun comes up, you feel less afraid.

Yeah, that's true. And keep in mind, they don't even, they fucking had a blowout. They don't get to just speed away. They have to fix a fucking tire too, which takes its own 15 minutes. So they fix the tire and they drive off to the first stop they can find. And it's this local road house where they tell the staff what they saw. And other truckers who were there claimed to have also seen bright lights that night. And they're like, oh, yeah, something was for sure going on. The family then drove to the police station

or the next police station they could find. I think it was a town called Seduna, and they go to the police station, they report their experience. The truckers and cops later both confirmed that the family's car was dented and covered in a weird, dusty ash. And the family was and the family was super shaken. So that's the car was going like this. Their brains are all scrambled.

It's a good point. It's like, well, they're literally shaken. Yeah. The truckers said that, I guess when they went to the roadhouse, the truckers looked around their car first before they went to the cops. And the truckers also said that the car smelled like a fuse had blown.

Oh, weird. And the light that they had seen in the sky apparently looked like a giant upside-down fried egg. Okay. Which kind of makes sense because the family described the light as yellow or white with yellow in the center, which would be a fried egg. You're so right. And it has that saucer shape. Like the yolk is kind of the bottom of the saucer. Wow. Weird.

And I guess they all confirmed that they saw the same lights. And then there was some like fishing boat at some point who later also confirmed they saw the lights. So the lights were very documented that night. And the trucker said that the car smelled like a fuse had blown. The story, broke the next day after they told the police told the police. And the police, by the way, I, I want to say that they took it seriously. They didn't do like a thorough investigation, but they, at the very least believed the family.

I mean, that's already more than that, more than happened sometimes in my crime stories. So, yeah. They, um, even the police were later interviewed and they were like, they were so fucking shaken. There was no reason for us to not believe them plus the fact that there were so many other Corroborating witnesses about seeing something out there, right? So the cops at least believed them but then they were like there's nothing we can do and they suggested the family go to like UFO research teams which okay. Well, like I have that on speed dial. I mean listen, maybe they had connects

They could hand over a business card or two. I bet the police know. Yeah, I'm sure they had somebody. I mean, people did come out and look for them. Right. Or investigate for them. And when the story broke the next day, within like 36 hours,

they were on television being interviewed. Oh, wow. What's interesting is that in one article, Faye said that they got no money for this. But then another article said that they got five grand. So it doesn't matter. It adds nothing to the story. But fun fact, there's different versions.

Just debate over whether or not they got paid. They also like some bunk PR group promised to like make them rich after this and like, oh, we're going to do talk shows and we're going to auction off your car and blah, blah, blah. But then nothing ever came from it. I think they actually also lost their car to that group. Like they said, give us the car

and we'll do promotionals with it. What the fuck? That's messed up. Okay. So they just took advantage. Yes. Okay. So anyway, the police did seem to believe them. They let UFO research teams handle the case. The teams found evidence of the event, and the police even later said in an interview that they saw blood on the ground where one of the boys said that they scraped themselves on the asphalt. So nobody doubted that the family went through something. Right. And nobody doubted that the family went through something. Right.

And nobody doubted that the family believed it. In fact, most people that have been interviewed about this case 100% believed the family because most of the people that they interviewed were truckers in the area. Oh. Who have all seen weird shit in the middle of the night on this road. Well, that's really fortunate, you know? Yeah. Because I feel like so many times this happens and they just become a laughing stock,

but I'm glad that at least like, I mean, if you're going to have somebody on your side, it's like truckers, law enforcement, like people who don't, like military people who don't fuck around. So. Yeah. And a lot of them said, Oh, I've seen some weird shit out there. I totally believe that they saw something. So that was refreshing to hear,

but upon investigation, the results seem very inconclusive and even if everyone believes that the family believes they went through something, there's no real evidence that they did go through something. So the car, it did have a bunch of dents on it. In fact, it had like four dents that looked like a grabber could have picked up the car on the roof. Okay, that's weird.

That's okay. Some versions of the theories of this UFO think that like they were picked up by magnets. And so it also looks like maybe magnets picked it up at all four corners of the car. But police also determined that the marks could have just been from a previous roof rack that was on the car. So that kind of took that away.

Of all things, that's like, oh, okay. Yeah. Nevermind. Really took away from the believability. Yeah. Then later when looking at the blown tire, they didn't see any signs of it popping because it was like pressed into the ground. They think it was just because Sean was driving a car

at over 100 miles an hour and those tires weren't built to withstand that. Oh, so like, okay, okay. So whether or not it happened, it's almost like, well, the tire could have just been blown out from the speed. Yeah, so I guess, which makes sense, but I guess tires have different speed ratings and they had a 1984, I didn't write the name down,

but they looked at the tire that was literally on their car and it had a speed rating of like up to 100 miles an hour. Right, I mean, I imagine most cars from that, especially from that time period, like if it's an older car back then. Yeah, unless you're like drag racing or something. If anything, it's more interesting to me that they were able to go over 100 miles an hour

and the car and Sean could stop the car mid blowout. That's more interesting to me, but nobody seemed to care about that. Also when they were asked later if the car lifted off the ground, they said, we think so instead of yes. And that seemed to like really do a number on their credibility. But they were also saying like, we were mid panic. Like we didn't know what was going on. We remember feeling like we got lifted off the ground,

but we didn't see ourselves fly. Like you tell me what the hell just happened. I don't know. Yeah, it was like we didn't see ourselves take off into the night. Like, I don't know, but we think so. So that seemed to take away from their story. And then as for the weird ashy dust that was all over the car,

the Australian Mineral Development Lab and some UFO research teams, they all took samples and analyzed it. They said that the dust was just consistent with the type of outside dust in that area. So the car was just consistent with the type of outside dust in that area. So the car was just dusty. I guess in that specific null over the area I was just talking about where it's like the desert, apparently it's higher in salts and most of the particles that they found in the dust were salts. They also found traces They also found traces of astatine,

which some people were, like, freaking out about that because, oh, it's astatine, and apparently it's radioactive, and that means it's a UFO. But despite it actually, yes, it is somewhat radioactive. It does show up naturally around decay. And remember, there was a smell of decomposition So they might have just driven past something and some acetine got on the car hmm, also those two elements of

or salt and acetine Because they were in the dust some people push the narrative that this dust was from a carbonaceous meteorite people push the narrative that this dust was from a carbonaceous meteorite. Sure. Because between that type of dust, the car shaking, vehicle damage, the bright light that they saw and that type of smell, they thought that that all added up to a meteorite, but it's unlikely because no one saw a fucking meteor anywhere. Well, that would be wild if like, oh, it's not aliens.

It's a meteorite that hit the car and nobody else saw it. Yeah. It's like also a meteor hit your car and you survived. As remarkable as an alien abduction. Like it's pretty much as shocking. It hit your car so violently that everyone shook and passed out. And your brains almost fell out.

Yeah. But don't worry, there's just a little bit of dust. Like Jesus Christ. So most realistically, the ash and that burning smell, because they were saying it smelled like decay, but then the other guy said after the fact, it smelled like a fuse had blown. Between the dust and the smell, it could have just been a burnt out brake lining from when they tried stopping the car at such high speeds. Oh, okay.

Okay. And the tire blowing out would explain the violent shaking the car endured and the sensation of the car being dropped because it probably just felt like they hit a pothole or something because the tire blew out. Oh yeah, I guess the shaking, yeah, that would make sense. The dust... I suppose. I suppose. I suppose.

If I must. The dust was also later tested again, and it was just essentially standard dust from that area that they were driving through. They even just called it road grime. Oh, cute. I know. The main argument that the family had,

because I kind of, I guess, skipped over this, but a huge part of the beginning of the story is this bright light that they keep saying and it's right everywhere and I like other people saw it right or saw a light yeah yeah so the main argument that the family and witnesses all shared was these massive lights that appeared on the road and the main theory is that this was a superior mirage, AKA I guess in Australia they've been known as minmin lights, but it's also an optical illusion called Fata Morgana.

Whoa. And this illusion, I'll show you a picture of another example of a Fata Morgana, hang on. Okay, so I'm sending you a picture. Okay. To Gio's trio. I feel like I've heard the phrase, superior mirage before.

Oh, I see. Okay, where something looks like it's floating. Yes. Almost. Okay, wow. So I obviously am no scientist, but the way that this works, or this is the best description I can give you, is that first of all, it's a very rare illusion.

It only happens during very specific conditions. But one of those conditions has to be a weather condition called a temperature inversion, because light travels at different speeds through different air densities. And usually, so like if the air is warmer or colder, light will travel at it differently. Usually cold air is on top and warmer air is on the bottom. But during a temperature inversion, warm air is on top and cold air is on the bottom, which makes the light travel differently to your eye. And so it just gives you the illusion.

That's incredible. It's like, that's the kind of thing that makes me believe more in ghosts and stuff, because it's like, hundreds of years ago, you see, because I mean, I just Googled this term, and apparently this is like one of the main theories for the Flying Dutchman, like why people see a flying ship, because it's like, it looks, that's the example Em sent me, is like a kind of cruise liner, like above the water.

So it's really remarkable. If you think you saw that hundreds of years ago, like of course you'd think that was a ghost ship. I would think it today if I didn't know about this concept. So it's like all the stuff we see and feel like I feel like in a couple, I don't know, I feel like someday we'll have more explanations, like scientific explanations, you know? And so, and there was a few examples, if anyone types in superior mirage, it's the first thing on Google images. But yeah, light travels through denser air first, so it bends it in a weird way to our eye. And basically on the night of this UFO experience, the weather was appropriate for a superior mirage to occur.

Okay. And the lights could have just been high beams from another truck, and it just looked like it was floating right occur. Okay. And the lights could have just been high beams from another truck and it just looked like it was floating right after. Oh, okay. So the best theory that we have about the Knowles family incident is that the family was really tired from traveling so far because they were so tired and it was late

and in the middle of the night, they saw a mirage from distant truck lights. They all panicked because they all probably saw the same thing and then they sped away in fear, which caused a blowout. Wow, okay, okay, okay. A random theory I saw was that this is actually, this was never a UFO, but a military assassination attempt

and the family got mixed up with the actual target. Yeah, that's for sure what happened. What the fuck are you talking about? The fact that that's even on the radar of potential stories. More likely than an alien. I'm like, what is wrong with these people? Somehow a UFO is so much more likely.

That's right, exactly. You accidentally became the target of a military assassination attempt. Okay. But so here's a fun fact. I'm gonna send you another picture real quick. Okay. And this is's my, here's a fun fact. I'm gonna send you another picture real quick. Okay. And this is the end of my story,

but I thought it was so funny. It's really probably not funny, but I thought it was funny. I can't wait. That, so there's, I'm just trying to make sure that I send you all three of them. So I couldn't get a sharp picture of it because it's an old YouTube pixelated video.

So I tried my best and I just did screenshots where I could. But because this story like took off like crazy, you know the company Dunlop for like tires and stuff like that? So they took advantage of this and they took out a full page ad the next day. Stop, the next day they were like, we're on top of it. And it says, it's a full page ad of their car

with three sons and a mom getting abducted by UFO. And it says, if only they'd stuck with Dunlop. No! And so, other pictures, I tried to get you like closer zoom-ins of the picture. Oh my God, okay, it's not a photo, but it's like a drawing. A drawing.

Like a cartoon almost. Of a drawing of this car getting picked up. First of all, there's a kangaroo on the side, which is like, okay, cool, you know about Australia, I guess. And then it's getting picked up by a UFO with an alien in it, and their license plate says ET1. And there's literally, yeah, the three brothers and the mom, like, just screaming in the car.

So this is the best part of the story, is that they were like, oh, let's, like, play poke fun at this while, like, tires are in conversation, and maybe we'll get some Dunlop tire work or some marketing out of this. Well, they didn't know, but apparently the family actually was using Dunlop tires,

and they're the ones that blew out. Shut the fuck up. So it was just like a funny moment of like oopsies, but. That's wonderful. Way to draw attention to yourself, Dunlop. Yeah. So anyway, that is the Knowles family incident. That's kind of a great like turnaround though

if you're like, oh, if like something happens, your product kind of completely flops in public and then you just post an ad like, should have used our product and it's like, well they did but. Nothing flops like a Dunlop. Oh, that's good MC. See?

See? Well, so, and I'll end on the family swears that they had this experience. They were not changed by the results of any evidence. And anytime they got interviewed, they were like, if you don't believe us, fine, but I hope this never happens to you because no one will believe you.

You'll look fucking crazy and sorry about it. Like this was, they even, I don't know why, but they decided that they were moving back and had to drive the other direction and they were too scared to drive. So they flew home, but they were too scared after this to get back in a car. So I bet the dogs never wanted to get in a car again.

I'm sure. So anyway, the family to this day, it seems believes it. That's incredible. There's no way to know. What is your gut reaction? Do you think? I don't know that? Superior mirage thing really does trip me out like I totally second-guessing every time I thought I saw something every time I was gonna say like I think I would be completely

Perplexed if I saw something like that. Yeah, I don't know. I I I'm usually always on the side of like people seeing something really fucking weird Yeah, I guess the superior mirage people seeing something really fucking weird. Yeah, same. I guess the superior mirage is also something really weird to see. I know. I think of all of them, this is one of the best ones that has been explained, potentially explained. Like I think it's the most convincing explanation I've heard so far, I would say. Me too. Wow, cool story. I never heard of it before.

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That's calm.com slash drink. Alrighty. I have a really dark story for us today. Uh, as usual. Yeah, you're welcome. Um, it's the story of Polly Kloss. So I'm just going to hop right into, into it. It was late at night on October 1, 1993, when police received a call about a missing child in the town of Petaluma, California, which is 45 minutes north of San Francisco.

The woman on the phone seemed somehow out of it, like sort of drowsy and confused. And then the woman on the phone sort of handed the phone to a young girl. And the young girl came on the line and told police that she was staying at the house for a slumber party. And a man had come inside, attacked her and her friends and had taken the girl who lived there. 12 year old Polly Kloss.

So the authorities responded to a very strange scene. There had been no force entry at the house, but Polly's classmates, Kate McClain and Jillian Pelham, were both there and they described a horrible ordeal. So these three girls, they're 12, they're in seventh grade together. That day at school, they made plans for a slumber party. And this is where, to me, this case was so haunting.

Like I had nightmares last night because it's just so familiar, you know, this idea that like three little girls are at school, they make plans for a slumber party. Yeah. They're fourth friend. It feels so innocent, so harmless, so relatable and so sweet.

They had a fourth friend named Annette Nelson, who was actually interviewed on 2020, and she was devastated because she had a cold, so she couldn't go to the slumber party. Now imagine missing this whole event. The survivor's guilt. Yeah, so Polly's mom, Eve Nickel, agreed to host the sleepover,

and Polly's younger sister Annie went to bed with Eve, her mom that night, like basically went to sleep in her mom's room so that the girls could have the bedroom to themselves. So the trio was up late, they were trying on Halloween costumes and like planning what they were going to be for Halloween. It really breaks my heart. And they were playing with makeup and around 10.30 they decided to get ready for bed.

Oh my gosh, sorry, I'm just like, it just gives me the chills. Polly was going to get their sleeping bags from another room. So she stood up and said, I'm gonna go grab the sleeping bags. She opens her bedroom door, and there's just a man standing there with a knife. Oh my God. In the literal hallway in front of her. Which like how long was he just standing there and hearing like little girls have a good time?

Play with makeup, like sick, sick. He told the girls that if they made any sound, he would slit their throats with a knife. Oh, my God. For a moment, one of the girls, Kate, thought maybe this was some sort of, like, sick prank, right? Because your brain is, like, trying to make sense of this. But the terrified girls had to obey. They had no choice. And so he made them lie face down.

He gagged and blindfolded them with cloth, and he bound their hands with cords he cut from a video game console in the room. So there was like a Nintendo 64 or something. And he had like cut the actual wiring of the controllers to bind their hands. Oh my God. He promised not to hurt them.

He said he was a burglar and asked which of the girls lived in the house. Oh, fuck. I know, my stomach hurts. Polly said, I do. So he took her with him, supposedly, so she could show him around the house to anything valuable. He told Kate and Jillian to count to a thousand

and said he would bring Polly back before they reached 1,000. Which I mean, as far as criminals go, like pretty fucking smart to be like, I'll just show me where the valuables are. You guys count to a thousand and I'll bring her back. You know, it feels like it makes almost enough sense that you would just believe it in the moment. So I love this because the second that he walks out of the room, Jillian, who is a gymnast,

is like, I'm getting the fuck out of these bindings. So, I know. So, immediately, she maneuvers her hands around her legs and like frees herself, and then her friend Kate, they run to Eve's room, which is the mom. And it's connected to Polly's by a Jack and Jill bathroom. So, literally imagine how close. Like, these two rooms share a bathroom.

And like the mom, it's like she was so close to being herself. So close. I have like goose cam. I mean, and with her other daughter in the bed with her. You know? So they run to the mom's room, which is connected to Polly's by this bathroom. Eve had gone to bed earlier with a migraine

and she had actually taken like a sleep aid to go to sleep because she had a migraine. And so that's why I remember when she called the police and she was so drowsy and out of it and she didn't fully understand what was happening. It's because she had taken like something for her migraine but that was also made her drowsy. And so when she was asleep and was woken up

she like barely understood what these girls were shouting and saying, and you know, of course, how do you even rationalize like Polly's gone, you know? So the girls woke her up. And again, it's only 10, not only, but you know, it's only 10.30. It's not like four in the morning when everyone's been out cold for hours.

It's 10.30. It's just like right in the middle when everyone's been out cold for hours. It's 10.30, it's just like right in the middle of the sleepover. So an APB in All Points Bulletin went out to local authorities that a young girl had been abducted, but it wasn't broadcast over all radio channels, so not everyone got the notification. And the APB was specifically noted not for press release.

So it was more like an internal release because the police didn't wanna create like a public media frenzy. So this was actually three years before the development of the Amber Alert. And so there was no Amber Alert to kind of issue at this point to quickly get first response on, if anybody alerts, can alert the police

to seeing a missing car or the car that's suspected to have the child. And so this just wasn't part of the norm at this point. In the most crucial moments following her kidnapping, nobody in Petaluma even knew that she was missing. So meanwhile, police start canvassing the neighborhood for any information they could get, but Petaluma is a very safe, quiet town, very peaceful neighborhood,

and the people there were just totally taken aback and had no idea and no kind of wherewithal to have looked for anything suspicious the night before. For example, Eve, the mom, had gone to bed at night with several windows open because it was really warm out. I mean, I do that, you know? I mean, I guess not anymore. For example, Eve, the mom, had gone to bed at night with several windows open because it was really warm out. I mean, I do that, you know? I mean, I guess not anymore.

I did it last night, shit. Right? Like, all the time. It's just, even though this is decades earlier, like, it's just really scary. Also, like, you shouldn't have to feel fear in your own home to just sleep with a window open. Agreed, agreed.

So she had gone to bed that night with several windows open because it was so warm out and Polly may have even accidentally left the back door unlocked because she had been in and out earlier that day, they weren't really sure. One of Polly's best friends, Annette Nelson, said that the house...

Oh, sorry. One of Polly's best friends, Annette Nelson, said that the back door, like this door that may have been left unlocked, was a place where kids left notes for their parents when they went out to play with friends. And so, like, nobody really worried if that door was unlocked or open or opening and closing. That was kind of where the kids would go.

So when a neighbor saw Polly's abductor enter Eve's house that night, it didn't quite seem suspicious because the door was just unlocked. So the man walked in with such casual confidence that they assumed he was just a house guest and moved on. Like, there was just no fear in this neighborhood. It wasn't the middle of the night, like I said, you know, it's like 1030 and of course it's late, but it's like, presumably this could be a parent picking up their kid or

a friend stopping by for a drink Or like one of the parents siblings. Yeah, exactly a family member somebody an uncle The lights that the lights were on because the kids were up and playing an adult was home So it's something a group of people was over. Yeah, it didn't seem suspicious at all And this was such a bold crime that the police were completely shocked as was the neighborhood of course and they immediately involved the FBI because they And this was such a bold crime that the police were completely shocked, as was the neighborhood, of course, and they immediately involved the FBI because they knew this was like they needed all hands on deck. So specialists on the case believed they were looking for someone who had committed similar crimes in the past because it was so bold.

As the night unfolded and Eve started to really get her bearings and realize just how and Eve started to really get her bearings and realize just how terrible this situation was, she lit a candle and she put it in the window. And this was sort of her symbolic light to guide her daughter Polly home. And she said she would keep it lit until Polly came home. Hmm.

Polly's father, Mark, arrived, having spoken to Polly just hours earlier because she called to tell him how excited she was about the slumber party she was hosting. And her parents were divorced, but they had a really healthy relationship. Can't relate. Just kidding. Must be nice. No, but so her parents had a very healthy relationship despite being divorced, or at least as far as you can be co-parenting. And so she and her dad, Polly and her dad, were really, really close. And so she called him almost every

day and she had called him and told him how excited she was to have her two friends over for a slumber party. She told him all about it. And when Kate arrived, this is like another little description that they put in 2020, which made it to me all the more just poignant and like Silly and relatable so when Kate arrived, I guess Polly and Jillian Jillian had already arrived earlier and so Polly and Jillian like posed on the sides of the porch like little stone lions to like greet her when she arrived, you know, or like little gargoyles. Oh my God, it's all just so heartbreaking and precious.

Yes, it's like, oh, we've all done silly stuff, like, oh, when she arrived, like, let's pretend we're gargoyles, like, you know, just silly, silly play. And it's just so sick, it just made my heart break. So that was just a little like lead up to the party. Mark and Polly were very close. Polly was a daddy's girl.

And he said in an interview, for example, where my marriage was really a total disaster with Eve, our divorce was quite successful. So, you know, at least they had that. And at this point in 1984, Polly was living with her mom in Petaluma and her stepdad and her half sister, Annie. And Mark and Eve, like I said, were great co-parents. Mark saw her Polly was living with her mom in Petaluma and her stepdad and her half sister Annie. And Mark and Eve, like I said, were great co-parents.

Mark saw her Polly every week. They spent a lot of time together. He said the last thing that they had said on the phone to each other that evening is she said, I love you daddy. And he said, I love you too baby. And that was the last time they ever spoke. Now, I don't know if you know much about Petaluma, Em.

Do you? No. Okay, so I had a friend from there who worked at Disney with me. I've never been, but just the way he described it and the way I've kind of looked it up, it seems like a very idyllic town. Like last night I was researching it

and I thought to myself, honestly, if I was not so afraid of the big one, the big earthquake, I may, I would, if I were moving back to the West Coast, this is a place I would consider because it's really, it's like 45 minutes or an hour from San Francisco. So it's like near a big city, but it's like a historic town. It has its own like history and culture. They've got cheese, wine, historic tours and buildings.

I mean, it's just it's very Christine. It's made for me. Yeah. According to 2020, in the early 90s, Petaluma was probably even more idyllic than it would be later on. Actually, it was even used the town was used as the setting for one of Ronald Reagan's campaign ads. That's how damn yeah, that's like how Americana this place is, right? And so in the ad, he's literally riding a tractor around. Like, it's just, yeah, goodbye. It's very silly.

So if you if you sorry, if you had to do a campaign, a presidential campaign, where would you shoot it? Do you think Petaluma? No. Yeah. Where where my forefather Ronald Reagan shot his ad. Well, I would obviously, mine would be that Galena place that I found forever ago. Oh, yeah. Duh. Well, we'd obviously be running together, so I don't think we get to pick our own spot. I think yours would be like Salem for sure. Mine would be like some random ass place in like Appalachia.

With a lot of ghosts and a train track. Okay, actually that does track a little bit. Okay, cool. Yeah. Okay. So once the news broke the next day of Polly's kidnapping, Petaluma leapt into action and residents formed unofficial search parties throughout town.

They walked in kind of like those linked lines to search for any sign of Polly. People gathered at a local print shop, taking phone calls, distributing thousands of flyers with Polly's name and information. Some real community. Yeah, they really did like band together, especially because this was just so unheard of in the area.

And Mark, the dad, was extremely involved as well in media coverage of Polly. He just wanted this story to keep getting blasted out there on the media. And as often happens in these cases, especially when people involved are on TV a lot, people started calling in and saying, hey, you better look into that dad,

cause he's not sad enough on the TV. They had a successful divorce, whatever that means. Yeah, right, that can't be, right? Yeah, exactly. And so they would call the divorce. Whatever that means. Yeah, right. That can't be, right? Yeah, exactly. And so they would call the tip line accusing him of suspicious behavior, just like from watching him on TV, which is really helpful.

Thank you everybody. And don't you think they already would look into the dad immediately? Yeah, pretty sure we already know he's suspect number one. Thank you for your tip though, caller. Geez, such a waste of time. Sorry, I don't know why I'm so mad, but it's like if you don't have a real tip

that's actually gonna help, then why are you wasting everyone's time? Don't call just to call. I don't know about you, but I think if I went missing, my dad would go, that's sad, and then just kind of even move in. It's like finally there's a man who's worthy of a pat on the back.

Yes, of the actual, yeah. And protective of him, that poor man. I know, I know. I get it though. Yeah, I'm with you. It's like, of all people, he's work... He's literally killing himself to do this. It's like very sad. He became so exhausted, actually, speaking on that, that he almost like had a melt, like a breakdown. I mean, he was like at the end of his rope,

and he was trying to hold it together on TV and then people were calling and saying, you did it, you know, and he just can't catch a fucking break. I'd snap, I'd fucking snap. I mean, imagine, like I would break down, but he decided he needed to continue appearing publicly for Polly.

One of his friends even came over and said like, you gotta just push through this, like a little longer, Polly needs you, you know? And so he got a little pep talk and got back on the horse and this case ended up being featured on America's Most Wanted. And that brought national attention to Polly's abduction. So much so that actress Winona Ryder,

who grew up in Petaluma and went to the same school as Polly, found the story. And at this point in 1984, she was famous for films like Heathers, Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands. She was having a moment. And Dracula. Yeah, she was in the big leagues.

And yeah, she saw this story about Polly and immediately like felt for the girl. And Polly actually was an actress, like at her school, she was in the theater department. And so she actually really loved Winona Ryder. And so, Winona Ryder hears this and sees a story coming from her own school, like her own middle school and her own hometown.

And she's just completely taken in and drawn to the story. And actually, Winona and Polly even shared some of the same teachers and a favorite book that they'd read in school, Little Women was their favorite shared book. And so Winona actually showed up in person to participate in the search effort, put up $200,000 as a reward for information leading to Polly's return.

And of course, this also sparked like media interest, you know, because now A-list celebrities involved. And, you know, it was really heartwarming, and they have footage of Winona Ryder arriving, and they even described like, she showed up no makeup, like it wasn't like a press thing for her. She showed up like... Yes, and I thought that was just like very classy. makeup like it wasn't like a press thing for her. It wasn't about her. Yes.

And I thought that was just like very classy. I was like, she's just seems like really taken by this story. And I just thought it was a very heartwarming thing. You know, at least as much as anything in the story could be heartwarming. But Polly herself, she was described as outgoing, sassy, charming, sensitive, talented. She was in the local plays. She played the clarinet. She had a natural stage presence

that people automatically were drawn to. And I actually liked the way Polly was described because I haven't really heard a kid describe this way or a person in any of these stories. And I think this is really poignant. In 2020, one of the women who wrote a book about the case described Polly as the girl who reminded everyone of someone they loved, whether it was a daughter or a friend or a niece.

Isn't that just like- That's a great description. I just, that gave me goose cam because I was like, wow, what a powerful way to say that, you know, instead of like she lit up a room, which I think means something, but has gotten so just- Like we all have- Yeah, it's all very, just like kind of cliche at this point, but yeah, I thought that was really nice. So, yeah, Winona showed up, and of course this put more attention on the abduction story,

but there were all these false leads still coming in about, or just like tips that were not helpful about the dad or what have you. One girl actually, this is really fucked up. As I watched this, my jaw was on the floor. Okay, so the family at one point got a phone call in the middle of the night. And, or I don't know if it was the middle of the night,

but it was at night. Polly's mom answers the phone and a little girl says, hi, it's Polly. Okay. And detectives trace the call, because of course they're already monitoring calls to the house, burst through the door with weapons blazing at this California home. And there's just this family asleep in the house. She just fucking pranked them?

It's a prank. She said her friends- Whatever. Oh my God. She said her friends dared her to make the house. And- She just fucking pranked them? It's a prank. She said her friends- Whatever, oh my God. She said her friends dared her to make the call. You better believe that girl is never gonna prank someone again. You better believe that she still is asleep to this day about that. Big time.

To have like weapons drawn, burst into your home is traumatizing enough than to get in trouble for causing it. Well, just being here, just to go to sleep at night and just think about, oh, I did that to somebody who was missing their baby. And also, I know, and to be older and realize how fucked up that was, because as a kid,

you probably don't realize, you know, the empathy hasn't quite kicked in yet. But imagine also being the friend who pushed her to do it and was like... was like bullying her into doing it or whatever. I just imagine like, oopsie, that was not a good idea. Yeah, that's bad. Yeah, it's really fucking bad.

And so that was kind of just one of those dead ends that was a little more dramatic than the others. But as days continued, the days turned into, and the search for Polly became desperate. The detectives on the case repeatedly interviewed Polly's friends, Jillian and Kate, and they are 12 years old, and they've experienced unimaginable trauma that night Polly was.

Oh, she was stressful, Jesus Christ. So horrific, and now investigators are treating them with suspicion, thinking maybe they know more about Polly's disappearance than they actually do. Oh my God, please. I know. You think 12-year-olds are little masterminds of losing their fucking friend?

And at the time, exactly, and at the time, like, they were like, oh, maybe she went off with a boyfriend, and they're just not telling us, you know? And these girls are just, like, so deeply traumatized by this event. I got fucking hogtied by cables. Exactly.

And now to be almost blamed for it, or blamed that they're the reason you're not finding your friend. And at the time also they made a good point that they didn't have the resources to have people who could communicate directly with children, who were specialized in communicating with children, especially in an interrogation setting. And so this was just full-on cops, like, interrogating 12-year-old girls. And just horrifying.

Just re-traumatizing them. At that point, I'm kind of just surprised that neither of them broke and said something they didn't even mean just to get them off their backs. So that's actually kind of how they described it. Because detectives were just pressuring them to give any new information, but there was none to give. And the girls later said in an interview,

kind of like what you just said, that it felt like detectives kept asking the same questions to trick them into saying something that wasn't true. And that they would only be left alone if they said the thing that the police wanted to hear. Like, you know, we hear this about- So bad police work. Coerced, like coerced confessions, that kind of thing.

Yeah. And the investigators, of course, thought it was strange that Kate and Jillian didn't seem traumatized by, you know, by this, the way that two little girls should be traumatized by crying and shaking, quote, unquote. And it's like, dude... Please.

That pisses me right off. That tees me right oh. that pisses me right off. That tees me right. Oh, it tees me right. Oh. And I will say that these same investigators have since come on camera and apologized and said, if they ever hear this, I want them to know we made a huge mistake and that was really inappropriate. And I was like, okay, sure. At least own up to it. You know, I was like, okay, all right. At least own up to it, you know?

Both girls did polygraph tests and Jillian passed and Kate's was inconclusive, but this is really sad. It was later noted that before the polygraph, Kate was in visible distress. She was holding a teddy bear. She was completely freaked out and that could have affected the test results.

So even, those aren't even helpful, right? They're just putting these kids through this for some reason. You're just describing someone who's gone through a lot. Yes, yes. So eventually the treatment of both girls became so intense that their parents told police and FBI they were not allowed to speak to the girls anymore.

And now a woman who's one of my heroes, Jean Boylan steps in. She's a forensic artist with experience advocating for people involved in criminal investigations, vulnerable people like kids, women, people who've experienced something traumatizing. Oh, I love her. I love her.

And she came in and said, more than anything, these girls just needed to speak and they needed to be believed. Because I mean, the police are basically trying to get them to say something that didn't happen and they're trying to tell the truth and no one's listening. And it's like, that's got to feel so unsettling.

Invalidating. Invalidating, exactly. She spent more than nine hours with the girls, just calmly listening, just listening to the story, and having them tell everything they could remember, just nodding along, being there for them, and almost just guiding them, like holding their hand, so to speak, as they talked through the entire event.

Nine hours she spent with them. And they had released a sketch already to the public, but it was like not a good one, and people said it, and even the girls said like, that didn't really look like him. After spending nine hours with the girls, this forensic artist, Jean, was able to draw like a portrait of this man.

I love women. I love women. So they take this portrait, and first of all, I love Jean, because like, first of all, she's so beautiful. Like in the videos now, she's older, but she, like you can just tell she's just very like, I don't know.

A ethereal beauty. Yes, she's a very ethereal person. That's right. And like this video of her, or this photo of her from the 80s is hilarious because she almost looks the same now, but like just in modern day, but like look at her hair with the voluminous bangs.

Oh, she's, yeah. It's hilarious. So she steps in. She's a looker. Yeah, and she's, yeah. It's hilarious. So she steps in. She's a looker. Yeah, and she's just like, I'm done with this nonsense and I am gonna figure out how to make,

here's a portrait she drew. Hold on. And I just love that in addition to being a forensic artist, she was also just a very empathetic, empathic person to be with the kids that whole time. Oh damn, she really was able to sketch the hell out of a man. Is that not like a portrait, you know?

That's a literal portrait. That looks like a painting. Yeah, it's like a full-on realism sketch of this person. And she actually did the portrait for the Unabomber as well, fun fact. Oh, shit, wow. Yeah, the very famous one that, actually, I'm gonna send you now as well. She literally is like, step aside, I'll fucking just. Yeah. I can just handle it. Yeah. Look

at this gal and the cover of her freaking book. It's called portraits of guilt. The woman who profiles the faces of America's deadliest criminals, Jean Boylan. And then at the bottom are all like some of her, not all, but some of her famous sketches. Yeah. Look at her jeans, her like 80s outfit. Anyway, I just love her. I love Jean Boylan and the way that she just like took these girls under their wing, or under her wing after they were like re-traumatized,

I just thought was really touching. So they, anyway, she makes this photo, or sorry, not this photo. She makes this drawing, this sketch, and it's a much more realistic sketch than the one they had before and much more detailed. And so now the date is November 27th. It's been nearly two months since the kidnapping and a woman named Dana Jaffe called the police

about something strange she had just discovered in the woods near her home. She was- Okay. Yeah. That sentence could be anything. Hey, this is going to go one of different ways. And they're not good. Hope I'm not waking you, but something weird is in the woods.

Nothing normal is in the woods. Yeah, I've found something strange. Wouldn't you know it? What'd you find? I'm here to tell you about it. So she was out for a hike with a friend when she came across an adult sweatshirt turned inside out and a pair of little girls' red tights.

Oh God. And some of the fabric had been tied into knots and there was a used condom as well. Oh my God. Yeah. And you know that like sinking, like you know, you find that something terrible has happened. A detective on Polly's case responded

and of course felt sick when he saw the knotted fabric and realized that's exactly what Kate and Jillian had had in the bedroom that they had been tied up with. So he knew this came from Polly's bedroom, this fabric, and that it was tied the same way as the killer had done it to the other girls. He had a sinking feeling that Polly had been taken here to the woods by Dana's house.

And weirdly enough, this was not the first 911 call that Dana had made since Polly's abduction of strange things happening around her property. Hmm. On October 1st, remember, this is the night of the slumber party, the night that she was kidnapped.

Just two hours after Polly was taken, Dana called the police reporting a trespasser on her property. She called and this person was on the edge of, so her property was on the edge of Santa Rosa, California, which was just under 30 minutes from Petaluma. Dana Jaffe worked as a chef at a local restaurant. She was a single mother with a 12-year-old daughter of her own, so like same age. She had just come home from work and said good night

to the babysitter who left in her car down this like long, wooded, dark driveway. And as the babysitter is driving down the driveway, she sees this man whose car is stuck in a ditch on the side of the road. He's wearing an inside out sweatshirt. Okay. The babysitter stops, her door is locked

and she cracks her windows like this much, right? Cause you know, that instinct of like, I wanna help but. Yeah, they're like, roll down your window and you're like, I don't really want to. But so she rolls it down a crack. This motherfucker jams his hand through the crack of the window.

That's when you roll that shit up, break it, break your fingers off. Rolled that shit up and he got his hand out, but he started yelling, you have to help me and get my car, help me figure out how to get my car out of the dish. She rolled her windows back up, sped off. As soon as she got to a phone, she called Dana and said, there's some guy in your driveway. I stopped to ask him what was going on and he pushed his hand

inside the open window. Thank God she called. Thank God. And so Dana tells her daughter to get dressed immediately. And she said, we're on the outskirts of town in a dark area. There's this sketchy guy outside. We're vulnerable. I'm a single mom of a girl. Get in the car, we're going somewhere else. Get in the car.

So she takes mace and a baseball bat. They drive down the long, steep driveway and they see the vehicle, but the man is not with it. So Dana calls 911 and when authorities respond, they find the man, he had returned to his vehicle and he told them he had gotten lost while sightseeing. In the fucking pitch black in the woods? In the nighttime in someone's driveway?

What were you sightseeing, you peeping Tom? What were you sightseeing? This was after midnight, insanity. The man apparently smelled terrible. Like, that was one of the descriptions that people noticed immediately. And he seemed afraid, very afraid. And Dana even described it as smelling the scent of fear

on the man. Ew! Isn't that the scariest thing you've ever heard? She said she could just smell like a primal fear emanating off him. And I just thought that was so sickening. His hair was also full of leaves, fun fact. What's he sightseeing?

What was he doing? They asked why his hair was full of leaves. He said he's been crawling on the ground. And they said, what was sightseeing down there? What you doing? And he said- You looking down a hole? What are you doing?

I'm just looking down the ground, finding a little earthworm to play with. I don't know. And they said, what the fuck is all over your hair and why are you covered in leaves? And he said, oh, I was trying to pull brush out from under my tires. And they like look and they're like, there's no brush here.

He's like, well, I did a good job. Yeah, well, I must have cleaned that up real well. I had that exact same thought. So although the babysitter said he was in a sweatshirt, Dana, when she finally saw the guy and the police were there, noticed he was not wearing a sweatshirt, and it was gone. Now remember, two months later, she finds this exact sweatshirt in the woods with the red tights and the knotted fabric. So this is where she saw it for the first time,

or at least the babysitter saw the inside out sweatshirt. She never saw it until she found it in the woods months later. The deputies told Dana they could arrest him on trespassing charges if she wanted to press charges, but that would mean he would have to come back to the property to get his car and it would be like a longer process. And so she said, I just want him out of here, please. And of course, not knowing about the abduction that evening, this was just not even on their radar. So she chose not to press

charges and she went home while the authorities helped him free his car. They told Dana that they escorted him down the road until they felt he was safely on his way out of town and away from her home. Now this man was 39 year old Richard Allen Davis and that night deputies had looked at his ID and confirmed by radio that there were no outstanding warrants for his arrest before they saw him on his way because if there was a warrant they would have arrested him on the spot. However, at the time there was no way to check someone's rap sheet, to check their criminal record from the road over the radio. And so they weren't able to check if this guy had a criminal record, which he absolutely did. And if they had seen that he had only been paroled just months earlier after serving time

for abducting a woman, then maybe they would not have let him just drive away. But unfortunately at the time there was just no way and since there was no outstanding warrant, they just let him go. So he had actually been serving time for abducting a woman in 1984 and he had also abducted another woman in 1976.

And they didn't even realize this. Yeah. They he's got a hobby besides sightseeing on the forest floor. Leaves. Yeah. Yeah. The police and the FBI received a tip on Richard's whereabouts and they organized a SWAT team to make an arrest in custody. He initially, and I want to just clarify this is two months later when she discovers all these objects, you know, on initially, and I want to just clarify, this is two months later when she discovers all these objects, you know, on the, on the side of the road, or I'm sorry, in the woods,

and they are able to like figure out what's going on. So police and FBI received this tip on Richard's whereabouts. They organized a SWAT team to make an arrest. And in custody, he initially denied knowing anything at all about Polly, but after a little bit of time in jail, his lawyer contacted investigators and told them he was prepared to talk. So detectives sat down with him and he just like drank a coffee, smoked a cigarette, and they did that thing that's so hard to watch where they treated him like just a buddy,

but it's like to get him to talk. See, I think that's my favorite, the Elliot Stabler. It's my favorite, but like watching it in person feels so icky, cause like it's just like some dude. It's not like an actor doing it and you know better. It's like just some random white guy cop. And you're like, why are you talking to this guy? Like he's your friend.

Why are you giving Coca-Cola? But it's like, okay, but this is nice guy, good cop, bad cop, you know, like I get it. But it's very unsettling to watch them treat him like a good old pal, you know? And so yeah, they're basically like, oh yeah, like just tell us what's up, what's going on. And you know, I'll be honest,

like watching them in the interviews later, like some of them are crying. And so it's like, they're not... This is not easy for them, right, to play, like, friend, but it's just really unsettling. That makes it almost more unsettling to watch. Okay, so anyway, he says he wants to talk. So they're bringing him coffee, cigarettes.

They ask him if he took Polly. He said yes. They asked him if Polly was alive. He said no. Richard led detectives nearly an hour north to Cloverdale, where they found Polly's remains in a field underneath a piece of plywood. And Richard said he was kind of surprised nobody had found her there earlier. Thanks, Richard.

The investigative team contacted Mark and Eve, the parents, about an update on the case. And Mark said that when he and Eve arrived, he could see tears in the detective's eyes and he knew Polly was dead. So he began contacting family members to tell them, quote, it was over. That night Eve blew out the candle in the window because in some way she felt Polly had finally come home.

The case went to trial in 1996 and although Richard confessed to kidnapping and murdering Polly he was adamant that he did not rape her. He said in questioning that he hated rapists. Wow. Did they ever actually look into the condom? So I don't think there was widely used DNA evidence at the time because this would have been like 80s, 90s. 93, yeah.

93, yeah. So I guess there was, there was, I don't know the details on that. I don't think they did do testing, but they very, very adamantly believed that he sexually assaulted Polly. Actually, I didn't know much information about the condom until you asked.

And then one of our internet went out. So I had a minute to actually look it up and I found this article from sfgate.com, which is like a San Francisco publication from 96 called Condom Link Points to Davis. And it says in San Jose, a former sex toys dealer from Ukiah told jurors that she sold, so she was one of the, I guess was, she testified on the stand during the trial. She said she sold a pack of condoms to Richard Allen Davis

just before the kidnap and killing of Polly Claus. So she testified that it was the same brand and that she witnessed that man, Richard, come into her shop, buy those exact condoms and then they found that condom at the site of the other materials. So, it's pretty widely accepted that he did rape her. He claimed he hated rapists and he said when he's in jail, he personally targets them. And it's okay. Thank you so much.

Wow. Thank you for your service. Thanks so much for having a good opinion of, you know, on one right side of history, except that you're lying because basically he just wanted to avoid being the target of that kind of violence. Like he's just projecting, you know, he's like, I don't want to be attacked as a child rapist in jail because... But please, no, please.

Please, no. That's not my style. Those guys are so bad, and it's like, it reminds me of BTK where it's like, you just ruined this family. And now you're like, oh, I would never rape somebody. It's like, I'm going to... But why aren't you patting me on the back?

Yeah, right, exactly. And he also insisted that this was not a premeditated crime, even though when he was being interrogated, the way he talked was like, and then the next thing I remember, we were just like driving, and she was just like in the passenger seat. And the investigators were like,

that is the way people who want you to believe it was not premeditated speak about a crime. Like they'll say, oh, so it's weird. It just like happened as if like... I just dissociated back into reality. Like I'll say, oh, such weird. It just like happened as if like I just associated back into reality. Like I just like as if I had no agency whatsoever. And so you could tell he was trying to kind of spin it a certain way. When they talked about Dana Jaffe and the babysitter in the driveway,

he claimed Polly was alive and just sitting on an embankment near the car. And according to him, at this point, he later stopped at a gas station and that's where he strangled poly to death. But detectives were not convinced because even if poly had stayed completely silent when the babysitter like pulled up with and cracked the window open, it didn't make sense that he could have somehow hidden poly and then left with her while police showed up and escorted him off the property. Like, police would have probably noticed if she was there somewhere a lot. 100%.

Yeah. So the story also didn't match with the evidence Dana discovered in the woods that Richard had left behind that night. And they believed it was more likely for that reason that Richard killed Polly somewhere between his encounter with the babysitter and Dana. And Polly's friends, Kate and Jillian, also took the stand to testify against Richard and basically tell the entire story for probably the hundredth time of what had happened that night. And both girls were allowed to choose one adult to be at the stand with them. And they both chose Jean Boylan. The sketch artist. And she was the only one who ever like gave them the actual, who respected their story and gave them the time of day and made them feel safe. Yeah. And she had just shown so much support throughout the investigation that they felt

safe around her. So the investigative team were extremely nervous about the verdict because the O.J. Simpson trial had recently ended and things went awry, as you know, in that case. And one person involved in Polly's case said that he refused to make any of the same mistakes he felt prosecution made on the O.J. Simpson case. So there was just a lot of pressure

that like things needed to go right and they couldn't fuck it up. He felt the pressure to build the strongest possible case against Richard with no loopholes whatsoever, which included a confession as well as physical evidence like fingerprints. Thankfully, the FBI at the time had this fluorescent powder that was 100 times more sensitive than the like standard fingerprint powder used by police back then. Interesting. I know. And so they were able to pick, I think they said they were able to pick up 48 prints that

had been missed previously at the scene of the crime because they were just not able to be picked up with like the previous powder. They were also able to pick up a palm print. And this palm print, when this was collected, the FBI agent who was on the scene wrote on his notebook, bingo. Ooh! Well, I'll do it.

Lo and behold, the print traced right back to Richard. So now they had his fucking hand print at the scene of the crime. Not even fingerprint, whole-ass hand. Whole-ass hand. When the jury returned with a guilty verdict, Richard turned toward Polly's dad. Oh God.

In the cameras and gave two middle fingers. My jaw's on the floor, but also it's exactly. It gets worse. It gets worse actually. I know that that's shocking and it is, and cameras picked it up and everyone gets worse. It gets worse actually I know that that's shocking and it is and cameras picked it up and everyone gasped it gets worse This guy This motherfucking guy it all started with the fucking fingers in the window and I went this guy Is trouble big time? I mean, obviously they all started when he started climbing around the place but I mean this guy's mannerisms are so unhinged.

I'm like... So Richard was ultimately sentenced to death, which is, you know, in California was, at the time, especially the highest sentence you could get. And he is still in prison today, even though in 2019, which I recall this happening, Governor Newsom put a moratorium on the death penalty in California. So there's kind of like an uncertain future as to people on death row. But for right now, he, he remains in prison. But when the jury

did return with this guilty verdict to all charges, and after giving the middle finger, the judge asked if he wanted to make a statement. And he said he did. He pulled out a piece of paper and he began to read and he said when he took Polly up to that embankment off Dana's driveway, Polly said to him, just don't do me like my dad. And basically accused her dad of raping her. What? As just a fuck you as his last statement,

as like, as last statement. Oh, so she didn't actually say that. He just wrote it as like. He just decided to say, oh, she just said, she didn't want me to rape her like her daddy did. And this man, Mark, his mother sitting next to him, and he says, she almost died. He was like, I swear to God, she just like almost just collapsed next to me, almost died. And he said he just couldn't even think straight. And all of a sudden he

is on his feet and he is being restrained by bailiffs because he is trying to attack this man. Good. That's fine. And he's removed from the courtroom and it's just like this guy wanted one more, just like punch while you're down, just to say, fuck you. I'm a psychopath and I give zero shits about you. And like I have one last chance to say anything. Well, I'm just going to make you even more pissed off. I'm going to ruin, I'm going to make this even harder for you. I'm just going to make this memory even more pissed off. I'm gonna ruin, I'm gonna make this even harder for you. I'm just gonna make this memory even worse. Yeah I've raped and killed your daughter, your little daughter, and now I'm gonna make it even

worse somehow. So Richard thankfully was you know sentenced, put away, still in prison today and it's been 31 years since Polly's death. We're recording this in December of 24. Her family still struggles to heal from this. Mark Kloss said in an interview that people say it's time to move on, but the way he lost a child is something you just can't put behind him. And he told ABC News, I think her legacy is strong. I do, but still I'd trade it for a hug. That's a,. Heartbreaking. I cried at that. Holly's abduction and murder bolstered public support for California's

highly controversial three strikes law, which requires that anyone who was charged with a third time felony offense in the state of California be sentenced to life in prison without parole. So it's like three strikes, you are out. And the legislation gained momentum because California voters were outraged and demanding to know why this repeat, like, abductor was out on the streets and was able to get this little girl. So the three strikes legislation promised to keep the public safe from dangerous, violent

people with multiple felony convictions. But a government study published more than a decade later found that fewer than half of the people convicted and sentenced had even committed crimes against other persons. So a lot of this was for felony drug possession and are now in prison for life because of it, which as you can imagine is needs to fucking be looked at and changed. So according to Stanford University, the law is also controversial because, of course, it disproportionately impacts minority populations like mentally ill, physically disabled people. Nearly half of all the people imprisoned under this law are black.

And so that is just like, you know, a little insight into how these things can go wrong. I know we've also talked about how the sex offender registry has caused a lot of problems that even the people who helped create it have been trying to institute changes to the laws there. And so, you know, hopefully someday we find a better system. When Polly was missing, her younger sister, Annie, wanted to help find her and Annie asked the detectives if she could help. And they just were like, I mean, we can't say no. Like you want to help find your big sister. So Annie actually spent time with the investigators when they were at her house.

And they tried to make her feel involved by saying like, can you hand me a tool, you know, that I can use? And so she would like hand them the tools. And if she had questions, they would talk to her about it. And today Annie and her own younger sister, Jess, have spoken out publicly against the three strikes law. So this is Polly's sister. Yeah. And she's talked against this. They've actually created a podcast together. Polly's younger sister.

Well, hey. Her two younger sisters. Yeah. And they created this podcast, which they say is their contribution to the journey out of punitive sentencing and tough on crime attitudes as we work toward a new vision of justice and healing in this country. Rather than incarcerating people after the fact, we are looking for ways to prevent crime by seeking out restorative and community-based solutions that address violence at the source." I mean, what? That is amazing. That is amazing. What's the name of the podcast? So the podcast is called A New Legacy, and their little sub headline is Learning From Leaders Building a New Vision of Justice.

And I just think this is so fucking cool. So they interview different people about redefining justice, rebuilding people's lives after prison, survivor-centered healing. It's just really, really cool. I mean, what a kick- ass way to talk about a legacy, you know, I mean, after going through something so traumatic and to have like one of those early memories be helping the police try to solve your sister's abduction

in your own home, like, wow, what a story. So they aim to build a more hopeful legacy of justice and healing for Polly for the town of Petaluma too. So you can listen to A New Legacy. Beyond legislation, Polly's own legacy prevails in the things she loved. Now get this, in 1994, the film Little Women would only have studio support if Winona Ryder agreed to the starring role. And she had been hesitant, but after she became close to Pauly's family and learned Pauly was a fan of the book, she ultimately agreed to do the film if the film

were officially dedicated to Pauly. Wow. I know. Call Winona. Isn't that just, wow. Winona said of the project, I'm looking forward to making a movie that doesn't contribute to the misery of the world. Okay, that makes sense.

Wow. Wow. The Pauly Klaas Community Theater in Petaluma is a space where young performers like Pauly can find a home in their community and that's still active and, you know, again, a legacy that she left behind. So that's the story of Pauly Klaas. Wow. Well told. Thanks.

Coffee. Yeah. Didn't see that coming. Wow. Well told. Thanks. Yeah. Didn't see that coming. I also shout out again to your new girl who's the sketch artist. Oh yeah, Jean Boylan. She's great. I love her.

I mean, she seems like, I'm gonna read her book, I think. It looks really interesting. Yeah, I would like to know more about her me too, I'm gonna do a little do a little deep dive on her Maybe this is why the first Episodes we've done in a while. That's under two hours. I can't I honestly with tech issues. I can't believe it. That's pretty literally shot That's honestly shocking. All we do is yap. Maybe it's because I'm losing my voice.

I mean, honestly, maybe we just felt like the time crunch of you losing your instrument so quickly. My instrument... It felt like the sands of the hourglass were... The sands of time! ...were going away. Were just filling up your throat. Yes, that's how it does feel.

Well, let's... While we still have maybe five minutes left with my instrument, maybe we hop over to Patreon. Yeah, let's do a Yappy Hour. I want to hear all the scoop from the wedding. So we'll go talk about that. If you want to join us, it's over on patreon.com slash at www podcast and we'll hopefully see you there.

If you want to buy tickets to our spring shows, you can go to inthatspreadrink.com slash live. We also have our book available anywhere, fine books are sold. And you can find us on social media at ATWWD podcast. M is the M. Schultz and I am XTeen Shieffer. And thanks for being here today. Wow, and that's why we drink.