anything goes with emma chamberlain - the terrifying permanence of the internet

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

[video available on spotify] you want to know what absolutely terrifies me? the permanence of the internet. i am tortured by it. but at the same time, i know it’s just something i have to deal with as a public figure who documents their life online. maybe it affects me more than the average person, but i really think this is something most people in the 21st century - especially my generation - struggle with. let me tell you why the permanence of the internet keeps me up at night. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You want to know what just absolutely terrifies me, keeps me up at night, and then when I finally fall asleep, fuels my nightmares? Let me tell you about the permanence of the internet. This is a reality of life that I contemplate multiple times a day. And not in like a sort of beautiful introspective way. No, I contemplate this reality of life multiple times a day in fear, in a panic, overcome with anxiety. Okay, I am tortured by the permanence of the internet. Tortured. And it's kind of funny because I am as tortured by the permanence of the internet as I am because of my own voluntary actions. Okay. I made the decision to post the last seven years of my life on

the internet. I did that. I made that choice. Now I'm sort of tortured by it and it's like, okay, but I did it to myself. That's a reoccurring theme for me. Okay. I often sort of get myself into the most uncomfortable predicaments in my life. Usually I'm the one who did something wrong to get myself there. Although I don't think I did anything wrong because I actually have no regrets. Even though I am completely tortured by the permanence of the internet, I also am aware that it is something that I have to deal with in order to be on the internet. The internet is not the internet if it's not permanent. That is a key detail.

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But I also think I have a tight chest because I was around people this weekend who were vaping and I was like, I'm obviously going to hit that. So I vaped a lot this weekend after a long time of not really vaping. And so I think my chest is a little bit tight because of that as well. I'm also feeling a little weird, I think, because I'm probably withdrawing a little bit from nicotine. So if my vibe is like off, it's because I'm kind of dissociating from nicotine withdrawals. And I feel weird.

Like my brain and body equilibrium is very off. Would I love to hit a vape right now? Yes. But no, I don't own vapes anymore. I only hit other people's. Anyways, I will say, I do think that I am more significantly affected by this reality of life, the permanence of the internet than the average person because my entire life and my entire career is on the internet. However, I do think that this is a concern for people in the 21st century. I think my feelings towards it are a bit more extreme, but I actually do think that this is a concern for everyone because it is just a current truth.

This is just something that like the internet is permanent. That can be good and that can be bad. You know what I'm saying? For everyone. More so for people who have a career on the internet, who have shared a lot of their life on the internet, but still so for people who have a career on the internet, who have shared a lot of their life on the internet, but still so for people who have not. It's sort of terrifying for everyone.

I think because I'm somebody who's shared majority of my life on the internet, I look at a time prior to the internet where everyone could sort of just evolve and grow as a person in the real world. And everyone was judged based on who they were within their close-knit community. And obviously there's always been celebrities and public figures who have been judged on a larger scale. But even those people couldn't go on Instagram and read their comments. There's something beautiful about the fact that, I don't know, the past was the past.

People were just allowed to move through phases so much more naturally. Whereas now we have access to people's history. We can directly see and relive someone's past whenever we want, as long as it's on the internet. And for a lot of us, it is on the internet. Instead of it just being this distant memory or something that only our close friends and family knew about, or you know what I'm saying? For a lot of us, our entire past is completely documented,

is completely cemented in history in a way, in a way that is so accurate because of the internet. And there's something so much more powerful about that, that really freaks me out. Prior to the internet, there was no fear of your mistakes being broadcasted to the world's stage. Worst case scenario, your family and friends and community find out about a mistake you made. But these are all people who know you. They know your character.

They might, at worst, exile you in some sort of way, but technically, you can leave that. You can get in your car and drive five hours and move to a city five hours away and start over fresh. And none of those people will know about your past. You know what I'm saying? The idea that you could make a mistake and be confronted by your friends and family and community and then sort of move forward in

the world as a person who has learned from that mistake, to me is so romantic. The idea that there isn't actually really evidence necessarily. Unless you did something so bad that it made it into the newspaper. Prior to the internet, there was no risk of your mistakes being permanent in history. I think that there probably felt like a future where it could even be forgotten. It was up to you to tell that story once everybody forgot. If you wanted to bring it up again, if you wanted to tell that story again, you could. Whereas now on the internet, if one of your mistakes gets broadcasted in some way, everyone knows about it forever. One Google search

away, they can find your mistake for the rest of your life. You never get to move on from that. That's not your story to tell anymore. That is now this permanent story that is permanently on the internet that can be accessed at any given moment at any time through the phone, through the Google search. Okay. This upsets me. I also think too, the idea that, you know, you can have sort of cringe, embarrassing phases in your life, but then move jobs or towns and start over completely.

Like all of this is a beautiful sort beautiful concept to me that I think still does exist depending on your lifestyle but is a novelty now more than ever. It didn't used to be a novelty. This just used to be reality. Whereas now for majority of people, this is a concern. This is the new reality, is the fact that, you know, like even for people who are not on the internet, right, even for people who don't have social media, there's still this sort of fear of the permanence of the internet because let's say you're out at a party and

you get blackout drunk and people take their phones out and start filming and then post it on the internet and you go viral because you did something sloppy or silly or stupid or dumb or you said something horrible. Even for those who are not on the internet, this is still a concern. I mean, I do think it's all relative because prior to the internet, the ridicule of perhaps your community was just as scary and terrifying. But now it's on a worldly scale. And I know it might sound sort of irrational, like again, for the average person, for the most part, you can live anonymously. You can sort of rewrite

your history. The past is not necessarily permanent, but it can be. For me, it's fully fucking permanent. For me, I'm living the extreme. It is fully permanent for me. For most people, it's still not fully that extreme yet, but it's still a concern. It's something that deeply, deeply affects me personally. It's something that for the last few years has fucked with me psychologically in a number of ways. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. It's official. The holidays are over.

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This episode is brought to you by Adidas. When the frustration grows and the doubts start to creep in, we all need someone who has our back to tell us we'll be okay, to remind us of our ability to believe because their belief in us transfers to self-belief and reminds us of all that we're capable of. We all need someone to make us believe. Hashtag you got this. Number one, I've struggled with something that I think every public figure has

struggled with, which is the fear of being canceled for something that I did when I was younger and dumber. In the age of the internet, and growing up in the age of the internet, everything that I did as a middle schooler and high schooler is documented. Okay? In middle school and high school, we all had iPhones. It was like when the iPhone first came out and we all finally got them. We were all filming and taking photos of absolutely everything. I would be lying if I said that I don't worry sometimes about what the fuck I did. I know I probably did some shit that I would be lying if I said that I don't worry sometimes about like what the fuck I did. I know I probably did some shit that I would absolutely regret now.

Was I ultimately 13 years old? Yeah, I was 13 years old, but it doesn't matter because something that I did as a 13 year old, not knowing how things could be hurtful or mean or disrespectful or like not knowing, being so young and completely aloof we have no clue what the fuck is going on we have no clue what we're doing we have no clue what we're saying we have no clue the

repercussions of anything we're rebellious we don't care like the fact that that phase of my life is in some ways permanent through fucking snapchat memories and shit on my own phone and other people's phones. This is something I don't like. This is a reality that I don't like. This is something that really, really bothers me and it bothers me because I've worked so hard to become the person I am today. I've been scolded by my fucking parents for saying shit that's disrespectful, saying

shit that's morally wrong, doing shit that's disrespectful, doing shit that's morally wrong, doing shit that's disrespectful, doing shit that's morally wrong. I've gotten my ass handed to me already. I've learned my lessons. Who I am today, I'm very proud of. Do I make mistakes still? Do I do things still that could potentially, I don't know, tomorrow somebody could come out and say, one time Emma was rude to me.

I might think to me, oh my God, that was a week ago. And you know what? That's true. Like I don't fucking know. We live half of our lives in autopilot. So like, is there still a risk today? Yes. However, who I am today, I am in control of. This is me today. I am the product of every single mistake I've ever made in my entire life. And I'm better for it. And I really am proud of my character today. So I'm tortured in a lot of ways by this person who is almost not even me anymore,

right? Like me as a child with barely developed brain, like in the age of the internet, that is not just a distant memory. That is permanent, right? And the idea of being judged for my past as though it's the present, it's a hard pill for me to swallow. I think it's a hard pill for a lot of people to swallow. And I think that sort of leads me to this other complicated, sort of terrifying element of the permanence of the internet, the fact that a memory, a story told verbally, it's so much more gently received than like a video, a photo, like solid proof, you know? That is responded to much more viscerally.

And understandably so because by watching a video, by looking at a photo, you're transported to that time because you can see it. You know what I'm saying? It just, it brings you there. It connects you to that story, to that moment. Whereas like hearing something or recalling a memory, it's just so much more gentle, right? And so that's the other thing. It's like the permanence

of the internet is made even more complex because not only is it now permanent, like set in stone in time, but also it's even there's something about the way that we psychologically respond to it that makes it also more potent. But that also leads me to what I briefly mentioned earlier. I also experience immense fear around messing up today. There is this sort of fear of being judged on what I did in the past because it's sort of made permanent or it can be made permanent through the internet. But there's also a fear of making a mistake today

and then not only being judged based on that in the moment in a way that's very intense because of the sort of permanence of the internet and how things spread permanently on the internet, but there's also the fear of like, am I damaging my future self? Right? And I've actually spent the last few years absolutely tormented by this. And it's caused me to develop a toxic level of perfectionism.

Like I need to be perfect all the time in every single way because at all times I'm at risk of making a mistake that could become permanent. It could change my life forever because on the internet the past is permanent and it sort of caused a mental block in me you You know, I'm talking about the last few years, like maybe the last four years, I've really, really struggled with this. And it's made it really hard for me to show my personality online as much as I used to, because I was so afraid of doing, saying the wrong thing. I was constantly psyching myself out.

I had a mental block. I had a mental block. And there's other reasons why maybe my personality was less present on the internet. I was less present on the internet. You know, this sort of mental block is not the only reason, but it's definitely a significant reason. Sort of the realization of the permanence of the internet combined with the rise of cancel culture. I mean, I'm not playing victim here, okay, at all. This is not me like whining, being like, I'm a victim of this and it's so sad for me and scary.

I'm not saying that. I'm literally just saying the truth of how it impacted me psychologically. I became so afraid that I started overthinking everything, in obsessing over every single little thing I said and censoring myself beyond belief because mistakes are received more harshly than ever now because of cancel culture. But again, they're also like, they're never forgotten now. So I don't know, I understandably became obsessive about every single thing that I put on the internet of myself. And it became boring and bland and sort of vanilla even for a period

of time because I was too scared to almost fully just be myself and be normal because I couldn't stomach the fact that if I show myself and it's maybe not received well in one way or another, it's now permanent. I couldn't handle it. I've also spent an equal amount of time fearing rumors, fearing people telling stories that are false for the sake of who knows, you know, like going viral or like who, or just to like character assassinate me because, you know, for whatever reason someone doesn't like me. This is something that in the age of the internet, because of the permanence of the internet, can truly ruin your life. Like I genuinely

live in fear of a well-crafted rumor because there, I remember there was like a story made by someone who actually did go to school with me. That was true. This girl who went to school with me basically posted a TikTok telling a completely fabricated story about me and my interactions with her. Completely fabricated, okay? In fact, me and this girl were always cool. And I'm not just saying that, like, if I fucked up and I, like, was a complete bitch to this girl,

I would fully, fully sit here right now and say, you know, that was a dark moment in my life. I was, you know, 14, 15 years old, probably 15 at that time. I, you know, was going through this, I was going through that. I was an asshole and I treated this girl like shit and now I have to live with that memory forever.

Like I would just say that and that would be the story that, but, and trust me, there are definitely some things I did in high school that I'm not proud of. I don't necessarily remember all of them, but I bet, you know, people could remind me of those things and I would regret them and be apologetic of them. I'm all about, you know, taking responsibility and shit.

Don't get me wrong. However, if I didn't do something, I'm not gonna take responsibility for it because I didn't fucking do it. This is a great example of that. This girl came up with this whole story about basically me being a total bitch to her and fabricated this entire story

that I know for a fact was not true. And anybody who knew me in high school would be like, Emma didn't do that. Emma probably made some other mistakes, but Emma definitely didn't do that. Like it was just completely out of character and like evil in a way that I've never been in my life, even at my darkest moments. And that was really, really upsetting to me because I was reading the comments of people being like, oh my God, I can't believe she would do that. Like I always knew she was a mean girl, all this shit. And it's like, my entire character is being judged right now

based on a complete lie that is now going to be permanently on the internet. I can sit here and deny, I didn't even address it or deny it or do anything because I was like, that will only bring more attention to this. And this is not true, this is not true. So I don't wanna talk about it and bring more attention to it because it's not real, you know, like I don't even know how to, how to handle it.

I'm just going to ignore it, I guess. But it was really upsetting to me because I was like, this is now something that when people Google me, it might come up this story that is completely false. And now this is something that I am going to be tied to for the rest of my life. Instead of the actual memories of me in high school that are true, And now this is something that I am going to be tied to for the rest of my life instead of the actual memories of me in high school that are true who I really was, which I was definitely not a perfect person in high school, but I was not mean like that.

I'm sorry, I just wasn't. Okay? Like I wasn't a, like no, that is ridiculous. And I, and it's completely just a fabricated story for character assassination, that is the truth. But again, like there are people who saw that video back then and that story became permanent in their mind. You know, in that way the internet is permanent.

But then also it's permanent because that video is probably still up and if somebody wanted to go find it, you know, they could and in that way it's permanent because that video is probably still up. And if somebody wanted to go find it, you know, they could. And in that way it's permanent. And, and that has also really bothered me. You know, a lot of the controversies that I've been in in my career were actually based on false narratives, a decent portion of them. You know, there have been things that I've said that I've gotten called out for that, like I have genuinely said, fair enough, But there's also been so many false narratives

as well that people now forever will remember. People fully think that I did things that I did not do because these narratives become permanent through the internet. And it fucks with me. It really fucks with me. And another thing that fucks with me is sort of, you know, how my past phases in life, though harmless, right, are permanent. Yeah, they're harmless, right? Like when I was a cringe sort of 16 year old, or when I had really bad acne when I was like 18 or 19. Every little phase in my life has been documented. Now I must also add voluntarily, okay, I posted all of this of myself.

I'm not sitting here saying like, oh my God, it's all permanent. And like, I didn't even want that. No, I posted it. You know what I'm saying? So it is absolutely, you know, this is something I did to myself and I am fully aware of that. But at the same time, even though I have no regrets and I think it's absolutely worth it, I definitely struggle with constantly being reminded of past phases of my life. I mean, in theory, could I delete my past? I could, but like that's sort of the dilemma.

I'm also like, I don't wanna delete my past, like it was my past. And also, you know, there are people who still find entertainment or value in these past moments of my life, right? So like, I don't wanna delete it. Also, even if I did, everything I've ever done is reposted somewhere. There's documentation of it beyond my own. So like it's, I'm in a unique situation there where like, you

know, some people could like delete all their social media, start fresh, whatever. And you know, there's no sort of documentation of their, of their past. Like once they delete it, it's gone. So there is sort of a feeling of control there. Is everything ever truly gone? No. And some things are posted by other people and those things are permanently posted and you can't hack into their account and delete the stuff. But I will say, I'm experiencing an extreme level of permanence on the internet, you know? It's exhausting in a way because it's like, again, like I've worked so hard to build the person that I am today. And I don't necessarily want to be judged by who I was

a year ago, three years ago, five years ago. Like that's something I really struggle with because there are moments when I was really annoyed. There are moments when I did something embarrassing. A great example would be my fucking Streamy's award speech, acceptance speech when I won a Streamy award in like 2019 or something and the speech went viral because it was so cringe. That was absolutely fucking horrible for me. And it still gets brought up and people still show me the video and I still have to see it. And it's absolutely horrible.

And I'm wearing a hideous outfit and I look hideous and the speech is fucking cringe. The whole thing is a mess. And I see that video like once a month probably. It comes up somewhere, I see it somewhere. And like how beautiful it would be if that was just a memory that we all had. You know what I mean?

A memory that we all had. It wouldn't be nearly as cringe if it was just a memory. You know what I'm saying? But it's cringe because it's this video and it's permanent. And that is really challenging. But also like, periods when I've looked bad, you know? And I know that this is like vain, and I am probably more vain

than I think people would think I was, which is perhaps in a whole episode of its own. I seem like I don't care and many people are like, Emma just doesn't care. She posts and she looks ugly and she doesn't care. That's true. Listen, at any given moment I look the way I'm'm gonna look and like I'm never gonna necessarily hide it I'm never gonna hide right because it's the reality but that doesn't mean I'm not unhappy with the way that I look or something You know what I'm saying?

So like now phases when I feel like I didn't look good like those are permanent as well phases when I've had really really severe acne or you know, I've been unhealthy in one way or another. And I look like shit as a result. You know, like these are moments of my life that are permanent. I am reminded of those phases constantly because they're documented and seemingly sort of permanent. I briefly pause this episode to let you know that this episode is brought to you by Squarespace. I love the art of a beautifully designed website, checking out a business's website for the first time and feeling like I'm being welcomed into their home, expressing the brand's identity

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and use squarespace.com slash Emma for 10% off your first website or domain. Now let's get back to the episode. The phase that I'm struggling with the most right now is my most recent sort of artsy to some maybe even pretentious sort of philosophical, although some people would say that that is just, I can't even call myself philosophical, even though technically anyone can be philosophical. So that's rude. But you know, now I had this phase, I think, for a number of reasons. I actually, I really want to dig into this phase, honestly. Like,

I feel like I need to discuss it. I feel like it'll be sort of cathartic for me because it directly relates to the topic of this episode, the permanence of the internet. This phase of my life is permanent. And right now it's really, really bothering me. So let's just discuss it. Okay. It was sort of this artsy sort of pretentious sort of philosophical sort of phase. Now it was not, I didn't mean for it to be cringe or, or pretentious. Like my intention was never bad. I also wasn't necessarily like trying to, to be cool or something necessarily. It wasn't even that.

I think it was a combination of a few things. Number one, what I mentioned earlier, me being so afraid of showing my personality that I completely had a mental block when it came to showing myself. Or I've always been a bit edgy with the shit that I talk about. I've always taken risks with what I talk about.

And I've always received criticism for that to a certain extent. It's not everyone's cup of tea, understandably so. All good. But when cancel culture sort of became more of a thing, I just became more and more afraid to the point where it was like, I don't even want to make a joke. Like I remember I used to like, I don't know, like fucking start writing an Instagram caption. And it was like funny. And then I was like, I can't, I'm too scared to be funny because I'm too scared that being remotely funny will somehow get me canceled.

So I would just delete the caption and post the photo with no caption. You know, that was the vibe. Or like I would be editing a YouTube video and I'd say like one funny thing and I'd be like, I'm too scared that, you know, cause being to be funny is to be edgy a bit a lot of times, right? So I just completely couldn't show the side of myself anymore. I was way too afraid

So I was like well, I need to show something so I showed myself sort of depressed and sort of in the middle of this mental block Having this sort of existential crisis Rethinking everything thinking really philosophically about everything, because that's truly what was going on in my head. So there was that. But then I also think too that I was experiencing a bit of a creative growth period, if you will, where I was trying to figure out like, all right, what's the next step in my career? Right? Like I've been vlogging my life. I've been, you know, talking about my life very intimately and very vulnerably

for a long time. And I want to maintain a decent amount of that, but I also can't really do this anymore because my career and my level of, um, fame in a way, even though I'm not that famous, but like my level of fame even to the maybe smaller level that it's at compared to say like fucking, I don't know, Jennifer Aniston, like I don't know, but like I'm not a fucking, I'm not super famous, but I'm famous enough that like I have to do things differently now. I was kind of in a phase where I'm like, what do I do next? And part of me was like, well, maybe I should make things feel a bit more

meaningful. Maybe I need to add a bit more depth to what I'm putting out there. Right. Instead of just talking about like mundane shit, instead of showing mundane shit, maybe I share things that are a bit more potent, a bit more deep, a bit more whatever, like maybe share that side of myself. And I think to an extent that was good. Like I actually think that there was some beauty to that. And I think I enjoyed that a lot.

And I think it was exciting to show like a deeper side of myself. But at the same time, I think it became like all I did. And then I wasn't showing any of my humor or like my lighthearted personality. And that I don't think is good because I think honestly, my strong suit is a balance. You know, and I think it was almost like an overcorrection. It was like I became too deep and like, look at how beautiful, everything became too deep, too artsy. I was trying to infuse meaning into my internet output and also simultaneously, you know, protect a bit more of my privacy.

And in a lot of ways, again, you know, there was a lot of positive there. Like I did end up showing a different side of myself that was actually truly genuine to me. But then through doing that, I like lost touch with my sense of humor and my edgyness. I don't know. I lost my edge a bit. I mean, listen, I can't like, I don't know. Everybody had a different opinion and everyone does have a different opinion. So I can't speak for everybody. And I also try not to read too much or see too much of what people think or else I have a meltdown. But I do think that, you know, there are people who are like, where did you go Emma? Where are you? And understandably so,

right? Because even though I was still there, it was, I wasn't all there and I wasn't in the best place. Like things weren't working. They weren't working. They simply weren't working. And it came off as pretentious. It came off as like, why is Emma talking about like philosophical topics? She's, she's like an idiot podcaster, which by the way, I think is completely an unfair criticism. Even if you thought that phase of my podcast or YouTube or whatever was, was cringe or pretentious or, or whatever, or, you know, even if you think that, you know that I'm not smart enough to be talking about.

Everyone has the right to give their opinion on whatever they want or to discuss whatever they want. I think if I did maybe go wrong, it was because I was accidentally maybe speaking from a place of like, let me teach you about this. That's a mistake. If I, whenever I did that, if at any point about this. And that's a mistake. If I, whenever I did that, if, if, if at any point I did that, that's a mistake. But to simply talk about things that are philosophical is to be human. I don't think we can, we should not ever take

that right away from anyone. I'm not a fucking philosophy major. I'm discovering it, having my own sort of philosophical epiphanies on my own and doing so in a way that's normal, you know what I'm saying? And I'm not claiming to be some sort of philosopher. I'm just like discussing what I've been thinking about on my own timeline as I'm discovering it. And if it's later than you, it's later than you, you know, whatever. But I definitely received a good amount of criticism during this sort of transitionary

period of my career where, you know, I just couldn't quite get into rhythm with things and the audience and you all felt that. Some of you maybe felt that but were like, okay with it and didn't mind it or whatever. Some of you fucking hated it and hated me and whatever. It's one of those phases that I cringe at, but also you all cringed, a lot of you, not all of you, but a chunk of you also cringe at. And I'm not going to go back and delete it. I'm not going to go back and delete everything from that time because again, I don't want to erase history. I don't want to erase history. I want to. I do, but I'm conflicted. I don't know. I would love for it to disappear, right?

But I'd love if it just never happened, but it did. And so because of that, I have to just own it and live with it and be like, this is permanent. But it's challenging. And, you know, to sort of wrap up that whole story, I recently, within the last, I don't know, year, slowly but surely realized I had it all wrong. Number one, I cannot live in fear of the permanence of the internet. I cannot live in fear because not only does it make me completely miserable, but it also it causes my career to suffer and my creativity to suffer. It completely gets in the way of me living a fulfilling life it's completely detrimental for me. But also my sort of desire to instill more meaning and depth into you know the content i put out on the internet that was also sort of a rational.

Continue to evolve my career. And you know take things to the next level i I don't actually need to instill more depth into things. That was a miscalculation. That was a hypothesis that ended up not being true. In fact, by doing that, I think I ended up removing meaning from what I was doing, but it was something I had to try and it's something I had to try. And it's something I have to accept. Like that's a phase of my career that I have to accept. And is it all bad? No.

And is it even really that bad? No, no, it's not. And there were some people out there who actually enjoyed this phase that now I, I cringe at. So, okay. But now I realize through that phase that I'm cringing out now, that number one, I can't live in fear. And number two, I don't need to instill meaning in things.

I just need to be entertaining and I just need to be honest and I just need to be myself. And that it doesn't need to be deep. It doesn't need to be artsy. It doesn't need to be, it doesn't, if I want it to be philosophical because I'm having a philosophical moment in my life, sure, it can be philosophical. But like, if I'm seeing beauty in a way and I want to share it with the world, I can share it. But like, I don't need to do that in order for what I do on the internet to be meaningful, you know? Like things can be more mundane, they can be more surface level. They can be more funny

They can be more chill and they can still Provide value to people like that was something I was having a hard time grasping It's like can I provide value to people if things are surface level if things are? silly if things are Mundane like how do I level up if not to infuse? More depth into things anyway, it was just a miscalculation. And now, you know, I'm in this sort of bittersweet position where on one hand, you know, I'm so grateful for this phase of experimentation and fear and difficulty because without that, I wouldn't be where I'm at today, which is

at an incredible place where I now feel more inspired than I have in a really long time. And I'm feeling more myself than I have in a really long time. And I'm feeling like I have a plan for my career and internet output that's sustainable. That's something that I could actually continue to do for years to come where I'm not going to hit burnout. I'm not going to psych myself out or experience a mental block again. I'm stronger than ever. I'm more inspired than ever.

I'm more myself than ever. Things are great right now. Unfortunately, to get here, I had to go through that little rough patch that was a little cringe, that was a little pretentious, that was whatever. I'm grateful for that time. But at the same time, because it's permanent due to the internet, I'm also sort of tortured by it and I'm mortified by it. Like I want to move on. I'm excited that like I'm in a better place now, you know, but on a daily basis, I'm reminded

of that phase and I could delete it. But I also feel like deleting it's even worse. Like I don't want to erase my past. I don't want to erase these phases. And these phases also weren't necessarily hated by everyone, right? There are actually people who enjoy this phase, right? It was a smaller group of people than the group of people who have enjoyed other phases of my career and life, right? But there was a group of people that enjoyed that phase. And it's like, do I want to take that away from those people? But, you know, I'm at a point where I'm like, all right, I'm

really trying to sort of develop a healthy relationship with this reality, the reality of the permanence of the internet. I'm really trying to get to a healthy place with it where I truly just accept this as a reality. I find empowerment in the parts of it that I can control, the parts of the narrative that I can control, trying to not live in fear of what I can't control. Like I can't control if somebody starts a rumor. I can't control if, you know, something of me from 10 years ago comes out of like me being an asshole or like me like pooping on someone's front lawn.

I never did that. I did pee on someone's front lawn though once, but I never pooped. So anyways, but like if a video of me peeing on someone's fucking front lawn in high school after a party when I was drunk, like, if that video comes out, you know, it's like, or worse, like, who knows, you know, it's like, I have to accept the fact that, like, that could happen.

And that's just sort of the name of the game. And that's just the reality of today. And also, you know, use the permanence of the internet to inspire me to only be a better person, but not to the point where I'm obsessing over it and I'm a perfectionist and I'm like completely, you know, unforgiving of myself if I make a mistake because I'm like, Emma, you have no room to make a mistake. Everything is permanent on the internet. I'm trying to find balance and peace in it, but it's challenging. It's challenging for me. And I also think it's challenging for society. Even though I have my own unique sort

of relationship to it that has its own sort of unique set of difficulties, I really do believe that this is something that is impacting society as a whole. Okay? Like I don't think just public figures are impacted by this, right? I will say these are all sort of hypotheses, right? Like I don't know for sure if the permanence of the internet has impacted society, but I mean, I'm pretty sure it has. This episode is brought to you by Sunwing Vacations. Listen, if there's one thing we can all get behind, it's a dream vacation that isn't

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ultra-thin, glass-like additive texture in every shade, from bold berry reds and pinks to breathtaking nudes. Shine on with YSL Love Shine Plumping Lip Oil Gloss. Visit YSLBeauty.ca to elevate your lip game now. I have some examples of how I think it's impacted society. For one, I think partying and clubbing and going out and socializing has really, really deeply been impacted by the permanence of the internet. I feel like people are really afraid of, of not everyone, okay? But I, I

know of people who are really afraid of really like letting loose because nowadays there's a chance you might be filmed and you might go viral on the internet if you let too loose, right? And there is something sort of beautiful about being able to go to a bar and go crazy and dance and live in the moment and it not be documented. Now, I'm not saying partying is no fun anymore because it used to be like morally wrong things could happen at the party and nobody would find out. That's not what I'm fucking saying. I'm even just saying going out and drinking and dancing and being in the moment like that is something that

is actually very vulnerable. It's something that in the moment feels so magical, but if you were to film it and take it outside of that moment, it is actually like, ooh, it's not supposed to be taken outside of the moment. But now because of the internet, it oftentimes is. And I really do think that it's negatively impacted the club party scene. And I've seen quite a few articles pop up over the last few years about how Gen Z is not drinking, which I actually think is a great thing. You don't need a drink to have fun, although it does help sometimes. But I'm sober and I've been sober since October of 2024. I haven't had one drink. Okay. So I know a thing or two about sobriety. Yeah. I mean, I'm still hitting the vape, but I hear in there. But the alcohol? No.

But anyway, Gen Z is not drinking as much. A lot of clubs are shutting down. Just my own experience in LA, when I first moved here, there were so many parties and there was such an energy, but maybe it was my perception. But I really do feel like, I don't know, like the party vibe, the club vibe, the bar vibe in LA

has really lost its sparkle. And I've talked to a lot of people the bar vibe in LA has really like lost its sparkle. And I've talked to a lot of people who also live in LA and been like, has it kind of lost its sparkle? And there's a lot of people who agree with me. I don't know. I just, I think that like truly going out and socializing and enjoying the moment is a bit harder now because there is a risk that somebody could film you or that you're in the back of somebody's video or like, I don't know. It's just like, it ruins

the feeling of complete freedom that I think going out used to give people. It's like at the end of the week where you're being watched by your boss or being watched by your teacher or you have to turn things in on time and there's all these rules. There was something so beautiful about being able to go out and be social and be free. Nobody's watching. Nobody's paying attention. You just get to let loose. Now it's like, wait, we don't get to let loose because we're constantly at risk of being filmed or being this or being that. It's like, if you want to fucking take body shots off of somebody, you can't just do that. Now it's like probably going to be filmed. You can't just like, I don't know,

chain smoke 10 cigarettes outside of the bar because somebody might take photos of you and be like, look at this fucking freak who just smoked 10 cigarettes in one sitting. And it's like posted on Tik Tok with that caption. And then it gets 30,000 likes. And then it's like, wait, I was just chain smoking my cigarettes because it's the fucking weekend. Why are you, you know what I'm saying? I don't know. It's just not the same. Maybe I'm just feeling that way because I'm growing up. And that could be truly the case. It could be just my perception.

But I've seen and heard too many things that corroborate this hypothesis. So I don't know. I want a vape so bad. I'm feening for the vape a little bit because I was doing so good. I was doing so good. And then I really just hit it a lot this weekend. I was just, everybody around me seemed to have a vape and it was just like vape after vape after vape. It was absolutely delicious, but I am really paying the price right now because I'm really craving it. And yeah, it sucks. Okay, moving on. Sorry. I also think too that the permanence of the internet has sort of created a new societal weapon, a lethal one at that. The permanence of the internet really, it has become a weapon to assassinate character. You can turn the internet against an individual

in a way that is truly like being fucking stoned in the town square. It is like being crucified. And I know that that's extreme, but it genuinely is that extreme. Like, if you're an average person, and all of a sudden, somebody posts something about you that's negative on the internet, and it goes viral because it's like a viral story, the feelings that that will bring up in a person, it's dangerous. It's really dangerous. It's terrifying. There are absolutely people out there who get off on just destroying people's lives through the internet.

I think that this has ruined more people's lives than we even remember. That is not good for society. That is not good for humanity, I don't think. The fact that people's mistakes can be used against them on the internet, I don't know. It's to me dangerous. Which leads me to my next sort of point. I think young people are afraid these days of truly experimenting and making mistakes in life, which is crucial for growth. The repercussions of experimenting in life

are now unproportionately severe because of the internet. Like if these things make it onto the internet, the repercussions can now be worldly. Are they always? No. But there's a chance. And the mere chance of it, I think, really, I'm hypothesizing, really severely psychologically impacts young people especially. Which I think, you know, is creating an anxious, isolated, depressed generation of young people. Which is another thing that I've been seeing articles about for years now. How Gen Z is the most anxious, how Gen Z is the most isolated, how there's a friendship epidemic, like no one has friends. You know, Gen Z is depressed. Gen Z is like, we've all seen these articles and I think the permanence of the internet weirdly is a part of that. And last but not least, I think the permanence of the internet weirdly is a part of that. And last but not least, I think the permanence of the internet creates some unfavorable qualities in society as a whole.

Not every single individual, but creates like an increase in numbers of people who have certain unfavorable qualities such as perfectionism, such as vanity, narcissism. In the physical world, your being feels much less significant. I don't know how to explain this, but like think about yourself in the real world and then think about yourself on the internet if you're somebody who posts yourself on the internet You're being okay. You're being like you as a human being in the real world Feels much less significant because you're surrounded by other people You're surrounded by experience. You're surrounded by so many things that are bigger than yourself You're surrounded by experience. You're surrounded by so many things that are bigger than yourself.

There's something about the internet and how we perceive ourselves on the internet where we feel like the center of the universe. It's almost like our profile is the center of the universe and everything else around it is just details in a way. It's a different way of perceiving oneself. And yet we perceive ourselves in real life and we perceive ourselves online. And I think now that our realities

are so intertwined with the internet and a decent portion of us nowadays perceive ourselves mainly through the internet, it's leaving a large portion of us to develop perfectionism, develop narcissism, to be vain. A lot of us who wouldn't normally be that way, like we aren't that by nature. There are some who are like that by nature, but I think the internet and specifically the permanence of the internet brings out these characteristics because everybody's aware of how once something's on the internet, in

some ways it's sort of permanent. But also when people look at things on the internet, whether it's the past or the present, everything when being perceived on the internet sort of feels like the present in that moment. You know what I mean? When you're looking at it. I think it explains why people are so obsessed with looking perfect, right? Facetuning things. Sometimes facetiming to oblivion to the point where, you know, it's like, where did their nose go? They smoothed their face so much the nose disappeared. This is kind of like ridiculous, you know, getting

arguably unnecessary procedures done to have sort of unnatural features almost that, you know, look good on social media, but actually don't even look good in real life, but look good on social media. But it's like in real life almost matters less because the internet's more permanent. So as long as it looks good on the internet, which is permanent, then who really cares what's happening in real life? If your lips are so big you can't talk properly. It doesn't really matter because it looks really good on Instagram and Instagram is permanent.

And so it's all about looking perfect because that is what is permanent because of the internet. I think people are also obsessed with sort of curating a perfect looking life on the internet. Because again, having an actual perfect life, who cares? Number one, it doesn't exist. But number two, it's like, who cares? Because that's not as permanent. The internet is permanent. So there's this like pressure to sort of show everyone, you know, this perfect

life. And a lot of times that actually ends up just kind of actually destroying quality of life. I don't think that that adds to quality of life at all. I think it a lot of times is actually quite a negative thing. And I really think this just leads to narcissism. I'm not saying that the internet turns people into narcissists, but I'm saying it causes people to develop narcissistic traits, I think. The permanence of the internet feels so severe that I think it tricks people into thinking that they're more important than they are. They're the center of the universe because this, does that make sense?

I don't even know what I'm fucking saying anymore. Okay, like what did I even just talk about for the last however long I've been talking? I don't even know what the fuck I just talked about. I'm gonna wrap it up, okay, I'm gonna wrap it up. I'm going to wrap it up. Okay. I'm going to wrap it up. I'm going to give a positive conclusion because I think otherwise this is a little bit too depressing. Here's the deal. In conclusion, I think the internet though it has elements that are complex and arguably

damaging to society, the internet also is an incredible thing. And with all good, there's bad, and this is just part of the bad. And I really hope that over time, as a society, we're going to get better at managing this sort of challenging element of the internet. Because I think we all know that the internet's not going anywhere.

And also we don't want it to go anywhere. There's a lot about the internet that is incredible. So I really do believe that over time, we're going to get better at managing the negative elements of the internet. I even feel like I'm getting better at it. As I mentioned earlier, I spent many years struggling with the permanence of the internet. It really, really bothered me. It led me to sort of a cringe phase that ironically became permanent,

that I ironically ended up cringing more at later. But living in fear and letting it get in my way, negatively impacted me to the point that I ended up coming out the other end fearless again. And I think and and I hope, that other people will experience this as well. And hopefully in an ideal world, the permanence of the internet will actually force us to accept ourselves for our mistakes,

for our shortcomings, and well hopefully one day, instead of just canceling each other immediately, unless, listen, if you do something bad enough, okay, I'm always like, I get it, okay, sometimes we have to cancel, I kind of get it, but it's also like, a lot of times we're canceling, we shouldn't be.

I really do hope that one day it will hold us accountable in a way that's's genuinely beneficial to the person and to the world. I see a future where that happens. I really do think that this could turn around and be a positive thing. Anyway, that's all I have for today. Thank you all for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, new episodes of Anything Goes every Thursday and Sunday. You can watch video on Spotify and YouTube and you can listen

anywhere you stream podcasts. Find Anything Goes on social media at Anything Goes. Find me on social media at Emma Chamberlain and find my wonderful coffee company, Chamberlain Coffee at chamberlaincoffee.com or perhaps in a store in New Year or perhaps at our cafe in Los Angeles. That's all I have for today. I'm really just feening for a vape. I just am absolutely having nicotine withdrawals right now and I'm completely spaced out and I feel weird. But actually talking to you all today really brought me back to earth and made me forget. Actually I didn't forget.

I did not forget about my nicotine withdrawals at all. I brought them up multiple times. Anyway that's it. That's it. That's all I have to talk about. I love you all. I appreciate you all. I enjoy the time that we spend together.

It is always, always, always a treat and a joy and I'll talk to you in a few days. Okay, bye. Bye, love you. Bye.