Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Eiza Gonzalez

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

Eiza González (Ash, Baby Driver, 3 Body Problem) is an actor and singer. Eiza joins the Armchair Expert to discuss whether there is human DNA in hotdogs, how she wanted braces because all the cool girls had them, and being a patriotic Mexican. Eiza and Dax talk about her father’s priority always being for her to learn as many languages as possible, why her dad passing away suddenly influenced her to pursue acting full time, and experiencing insecurity when she started working in America. Eiza explains why she rides so hard for those who first gave her a shot, seeing her new “Substance-in-space” horror film Ash in theaters, and how she learned the lesson that really horrific things can give way to the most beautiful, life-changing opportunities.Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman. Hi there. Today we have Aza Gonzalez-san.

Yes. Aza is an actor. She is a singer. Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare, Baby Driver, Three Body Problem, Ambulance, Bloodshot, in a new movie out that I quite enjoyed. Yeah. Very moon-like, as I say in the episode,

if anyone remembers that great Sam Rockwell movie, called Ash. Yeah. Yes, Ash. Yeah. Yes, Ash. Yeah, I just saw something about Ash on maybe Instagram. Some friends had seen it and they were raving about it. They were raving, yeah, it's an intense, it's got that, as I think I said in the episode,

it's got that kind of a substancey, tenshy. Ooh, we love a tenshy. It was really good, really good. Please enjoy Aza Gonzalez. You just realized your business needed to hire someone like yesterday. With Indeed, there's no need to stress. You can find amazing candidates fast using sponsored jobs.

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She has bad news. I have amazing life changing information for you. Because of your hot dog. For me specifically. So this is what started it. Yes. It might ruin you. I'm nervous.

Don't tell me anything negative about hot dogs. I fear it will be happening. Are you traumatized by this? And this was the day that I stopped eating hot dogs. This is a good example of how you, if you care about something, you can twist it. Because we'll tell him the fact and then I'll tell you how I twisted it.

Yeah, because we were talking about your pictures and your paintings. Celeb's on sandwiches. I said, wow, who would pick a hot dog as their favorite sandwich? Is that a sandwich? That's the big question. I used to be obsessed with hot dogs.

What were your favorites before we were in it? I'm not American. So I would just settle for a regular whatever. Oscar Mayer. Yeah, I mean, I wish we even had that. Would you have a street dog? Because I like the street dog. I have it from Mexico. I'll have anything from the street.

Street food is like everything for me. So anyway, I was obsessed with hot dogs and I'd eat them all the time until my brother, I have a brother who's 12 years older than me and likes to ruin my life. He was like, do you know it's proven that every single piece of hot dog has human DNA in it? Like there's human flesh. And then she just looked it up. On what website? Willows.co? Is it a dot org?

It's called Hey Siri and Siri is AI. Okay. Hey Siri, is there human DNA in hot dogs? In other words, yes, your hot dogs are going to have a little human DNA on them. This answer is from men'shealth.com. Oh, well, I don't know about men's health. Also, she started in the middle, she said,

in other words, what's before that? Yeah, what is before that? Yeah, why did she edit her own? Yeah. Oh my gosh, she started towards the end of it. She made a mistake. She started with Gabe and Bonnie. Oh my God, she's getting so conscious. In summary, I think I did have a deep dive

when I figured this whole thing out and it's a scary percentage. Definitely like a 5% of human flesh, which is pretty high. Hold on though, hold on. For a hot dog. It's pretty high. We are playing it a little fast and loose

with DNA and now human flesh. But I'm saying that it started with flesh and then I kind of unraveled. But if guys operate in the grinding machine, one of their hair strands falls in. That's human DNA. They grind it good. I'm going to claim more of a Jonathan Haidt version, which is like this is moral dumbfounding. We eat animals. We draw very arbitrary distinctions between which ones we eat and which ones we don't culturally. Some more than others.

So I mean, I don't know. Is someone gonna get killed so I can eat them? Big ethical issue. I guess it is all a mental state. For you though, the notion of having some human. It was a done deal for me. Look up the surface though. It's not really my kink. It's not mine either.

Again, I don't desire to eat a human. It's whether or not I can handle it. On the surface, look at Rob. Cute wobby Rob. And then look at Rob, cute, wild Rob. And then look at a pig sitting in its shit. No disrespect, I'd be more sad to eat a pig than eat him. I'd be more sad. Sad, because you know he's not a good boy.

I mean, he looks, I don't know him, but he looks like a boy. If I had to compare it to a little pig who's sitting there just like. I guess I'm just saying, hygienically get Rob out of the shower and little pig who's sitting there just like. I guess I'm just saying, hygienically, get Rob out of the shower, and then the pig's sitting in his shit and eat shit,

and you go like, well, what would be smarter to eat? You're not wrong. You're an alien and you're evaluating, what are these animals am I gonna eat? One's wallowing in his shit, and another guy just hopped out of the shower. Yeah, but humans are so gross. You think grosser than a pig?

In our hidden environments, we're disgusting. It's true. It's really hard to say. I do think that sometimes animals can be cleaner than humans. Yeah. They lick their own booty holes. You think that's clean? They're self-cleaning. You ain't cleaning your booty hole as much as...

The hell I'm not. A cat. Aza, 80% of my shower is focused on my anus. Trust me. And I have a brundle where I spray water after every, and then I left out that I also clean when I do that. But are you like a full hand cleaner? I'm neurotic.

You go like in. Are we talking wiping or cleansing with water? No, like in shower. Are you like a full hand cleaner or you're just like a toss of water into it? No, you gotta get in there. There's multiple steps. So first is I lather a ton of water into it. No, you gotta get in there. Oh, trust me, listen, there's multiple steps. So first is I lather a ton of soap and do a full scrub.

Then I rinse, because I don't want anything gross touching the soap. And then I go hard with the bar of soap. Wait, wait, wait, wait. And I really rub the bar of soap on my anus. Not in it. Wait, first you don't want the soap touching it and then you use the soap directly on the.

No, I use soapy hands to get the first round of whatever off. Then I rinse everything, so now it's pretty clean. And now I go in with the direct bar of soap. Direct bar of soap? Yeah. It's kind of erotic. No, I don't know about that. It leads back to humans being disgusted. Is this a morning shower? That feels aggressive in the morning, just a whole bar.

You guys are very judgmental of this. I'm wondering how are you cleaning your butts? I hope not splashing water. No, I'm up in there too. I'm up in there, but I'm not a bar girl. I'm like a liquid soap. I'm kind of crazy about that. I have a bar soap.

And are you putting it directly on your? I normally use hands, also a lather, but I do get in there. I am sure that I am really getting clean. But I think it's for girls that's more normal. When we were little, my mom with her hand, very Mexican of her, would be like in my butt like that. With girls, it's a bit more normal.

I feel like guys, by the way, I have showered with men at one point in my life. Right, seen a routine. And I've seen an array of different routines. Do we jump right to Dumel? Because you know, I'm friends with Dumel. Oh God. Did you date Dumel? Did I see this? Yes, we dated. know, I'm friends with Duhamel. Oh God. Did you date Duhamel? Did I see this?

Yes, we dated. Okay, I'm so envious of him. Why? In this way. He seems effortlessly masculine. He can't not be masculine. He just seems to have these huge haunches. I'm like, how much are you working out? He's like, I don't know, occasionally.

I'm like, you have that frame, but I could see him in the shower, just like walking through and being on his way. Hold on, I wanna give you, that frame, but I could see him in the shower just like walking through and being honest way Hold on. I want to give you because I was hard on you and I actually want to commend you now Because I do appreciate that you as a guy Really care about it being clean because I do think a lot of guys don't and then they just have skid marks and they think Who gives a fuck but really you should care. Yeah, you really should care. You should totally care.

And you should do two rounds and you should use the soap. This is across the board, not women or men. So my mom's an orthodontist. Former model too, right? Former model, yeah. So did she learn orthodontia later? So it was the other way around. So my mom won out of eight brothers and sisters

from like a very small town and she was the only one that got out. She got a full scholarship in Mexico City when she was 18 and then crazy lady, she might kill me for saying this, but she got pregnant the first time she ever had sex with my brother. So she was super young. She was studying to be an orthodontist and then she had to work because she had to support my brother. Because that dad did not stick around. No, no, he's not around. He was out.

And so she started modeling simultaneously because a friend of hers was like, I have some extra jobs and then so much more money as a model. She had a master degree and she was an orthodontist for like three months and then she was like, well, the model life is paying me more. So she did it for a very long time. Did she do your braces? See, I never had braces. No. I hate to be that person. Your teeth do your braces? See, I never had braces.

I hate to be that person. Your teeth are literally perfect. They look like veneers. That's very sweet, thank you. I really wanna get in there now. They're incredible. And they're so white. So when I was little, all the cool girls had braces

in my school. Did that happen here too? Retainers, people would go and get a retainer. All the cool girls had those? Like cool girls? Yeah. In middle school, it was a thing. All the cool girls had those? All the cool girls? Yeah. In middle school it was a thing. All the cool girls had braces and they would change.

I remember the band. Different colors. Halloween they had, and I was obsessed with it and I really wanted it and I would torment my dentist who was not my mother, but they studied together and he was like, you don't need them. And I begged forever and now I'm like, wow, I really was clueless about what I was begging for.

Did you want a cast too? I had that from scratch. I've been in the hospital in and out probably past 40 times in my life. Really? I really was clueless about what I was begging for. Did you want a cast too? I had that from scratch. I've been to the hospital in and out, probably passed 40 times in my life. Really? Yeah, I was a very accident prone kid from age negative zero.

Because you are a risk taker or you're clumsy by nature? I think it's a combination of both. That's a bad combo if you're a risk taker and you have bad balance. I mean, it was an ongoing joke constantly that I'd be standing in fall. My mom was like, you're just standing there Like how did you feel like you're on roller skates, but you're not all the time

I've been very lucky because I've had impact to the face you name it broken nose and six pieces And it still looks like that. I fixed it later Because I broke it at 11 I went straight into a you remember we had coolers outside instead of ACs and I ran straight into a tube at night playing hide and seek. Five pieces concussion, broke it completely. Like I have a Harry Potter scar on my forehead. One year old, this is a table. This is jumping in the shower.

This is stairs. If I was your mom, I would be like, I'm putting you in a bubble. But to the point of the dentistry of it all, if you brush your teeth, you need to brush your tongue. Oh, yeah. This is the one thing I constantly see that kills me. I'm like, I cannot kiss you now if I've seen that you don't scrape your tongue.

You don't get a scraper. They have tongue scrapers. You don't have to go to the nuclear option. And especially if you're shoving that piece of that part of your face into somebody else's mouth. Yeah. That's the least as a respect to you. I agree. I'm gonna promote one of my own products right now to you, a movie called Hit and Run.

Because I directed it, I got to do the thing I always want to do, which is in movies no one ever brushes their tongue. And I brush my tongue specifically till I gag. That's when I know I've got it. Yes, because you're also taking care of your health. Brain health. Yeah, everything. So in the movie, I'm brushing my tongue and I gag and almost throw up and there's toothpaste everywhere and that's in the film.

And I felt like I had the first really authentic teeth brushing. It's important, you know, the one movie also that I remember very clear in my head when I was young and I was like, oh wow, this is realistic. Bring it on. Oh, loved. The brother and the girl are in the bathroom

and they're brushing their teeth and she stays over at. Gabrielle Union's? No, that's the bad girls, the main girls. Kirsten Dunst. Yeah, it's Kirsten Dunst and then they're brushing their teeth with Kristen Dunst's brother

and they're going in, it's a whole scene of them sort of flirting, brushing their teeth, and she's going into the tongue. And they kept it in. I guess it's not novel. You did it too. She didn't gag though, did she? I don't think so.

She didn't do it all the way. I don't know. We'll have to go back and watch for the fact check. Important, cleansing your tongue. So your mother has your brother who's 12 years older than you, and she's an orthodontist turned model When does she meet your dad?

I think they meet when my brother's around eight and what did your dad do? My dad was a graphic designer. Was he from Mexico City? Yeah, I got a side note We went for the first time over Christmas and I cannot believe how much I loved it It's incredible right? It's like the greatest fucking city I love to see what's happened with Mexico City because when I moved to the US 10 years ago, we're saying that everything for us is 10 years ago, even though we've been here for like probably six decades. When I moved here, every time I said I was from Mexico,

they were like, how's Mexico? I feel like a lot of people were sort of on the fence of going, and in the past seven to eight years, it's changed so drastically. Every time I say I'm from Mexico, someone says, my God, I love Mexico City. Oh my God, I love San Miguel de Allende. Oh my God, I love Merida.

The amount of people that have embraced Mexico, everything progresses and I think that cities get better. And I definitely feel like Mexico City, especially after COVID, got much better because so many people traveled to Mexico because it was open in the middle of the world. I'm glad that you had an amazing time. I mean, hey, I'm a patriotic Mexican.

Is that a thing? Can you be a patriotic Mexican? Of course. Okay, so you seem on the surface because you went to a couple of private schools. One of them was like an American school. It was pretty privileged? I did have in the sense of privileged education,

but with parents that worked really hard. My school was very expensive. It was one of the best when it came to education, but with parents that worked really hard. My school was very expensive. It was one of the best when it came to education, but my family wasn't wealthy in comparison to everyone else. You know, Carlos Slim's kids were there. We didn't have that type of money. My mom, you know, was truly the breadwinner of the house. My dad was incredibly talented, but not very successful at businesses.

And so he was an incredible father figure to me because he spent a lot of physical time with me. And his priority number one for me was education because he didn't get that. And so he really wanted me to be like a lawyer, a doctor. I hope you've played a lawyer or a doctor. I have, I played a scientist and an AMT, so it was helpful. So you did it for him.

It did. What was the American school? It's interesting. So I went half of my life to an American school. Does that just mean the English school? Like international school? Yes. People that flew from America, all their kids were there.

Or people that worked for the embassies and stuff like that. And then my other half of my education, I went to a British school. American meant it was full English all day long, no Spanish, so I had geography, math, chemistry, everything in English. So I was fully fluent in English since I was a baby.

I don't even remember learning another language. And your parents put in that effort because they just wanted the whole world to be open to you. Did they specifically see you going to the US? That was never thought. My dad had a fixation with languages, so he really was hyper-focused on me speaking multiple languages, and I do.

I was his only daughter and his only kid. My dad really didn't want any artistic sort of influence in my life, in the sense of music. And my mom was a naughty one who would take me to dance or singing, and he was like, stop distracting her from 17 different languages. Oh wow.

You went to Italy at 10 for a minute to learn Italian? Yeah, so my family lives in Italy. Your extended family. From my mom's side. I went to Trento to learn Italian when I was little. Have you done a 23andMe? I actually haven't. Oh my God.

Cause I'm paranoid of human DNA as you can tell. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You only wanna know about your own human DNA. But I should. Cause I do know that I have a little bit of everything. Yeah, what do you think you have? Because mind you, what I thought I had didn't prove out in the data. Have you done it?

Yeah, we had to do it, and I'm 100% Indian. Pure. That is incredible. I'm so pure. By the way, that's so funny to me, because when I moved to the US, when I would ask people, where are you from? They'd be like, yeah, yeah, I'm American, Italian, Spanish, with a quarter Cherokee. I was like, what?

That is, with all due respect, such an American thing. Yeah, tell us. You guys don't do that in Mexico. I'd be like, I'm from Deife. You'd be like, I'm from Rome. I've never in my life thought of this. So I would be so wrong. I would have thought it would have been even perhaps

more fetishized there because you have this Mestizo population and then this European influence and there has been some kind of status hierarchy a little bit derived from that now. Yes and no. We're all sort of in agreement that we all know that there were some sort of mix. It's settled, we got conquered.

The conquistadors came in, took us. We had some Jewish communities coming in from this side, some German on that side. In the best way possible, it's a new country type of mentality. America is the land of immigrants, right? It's the concept of it. So everyone's identify by where they came.

I don't want to talk about other countries specifically, but I feel for Mexico, we were just all like, yeah, we're Mexican. We didn't really care if we're like more Aztec, more Mayan. We're just proud to be Mexican. Yeah, it's the search for identity here that, you're right, is young country sort of thing. But also it's a college application thing.

I think that's when most people start to really do the deep dive. So they're like, I'm 0.2% Native American, so I'm diverse enough to get into this college. Well, to me, it started happening when I became an actress in America, because they're like, so are we legally able to contractually cast you

because you're not Mexican enough? I did definitely have an identity crisis when I moved here. It did throw me off for a second, because I had never really asked these questions myself. I was just always glaringly Mexican in my eyes, and it was just fine. And so when I came here, people were like,

but you're not a Mexican because you don't speak. Right. So if mom had family in Italy, had they moved from Mexico to Italy? Married into Italian. That makes sense. But also my mom's blonde with blue eyes. So she might not be Aztec.

But she is. Right. That's when like, to me it's so funny when they're like, but your mom's blonde. I'm like, guys. Yeah, it's fine. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? There's colors in the world in different countries.

Like, it's okay. I have an array of friends who are blonde and I'm fully Mexican. Outside of the fun part of it, it definitely made me really anxious when I moved here because my value is really tied to that and I understand now why I think it is a cultural thing. I don't know if the chicken or the egg

of where it started in this place, but people feel a responsibility to justify or explain this descent. And I find that quite interesting psychologically. Annoying? No, because I don't judge. You're the effect of circumstances, but it made me insecure.

You know what's interesting? This is a bizarre thing to say, but I kind of think it's good, but it does tread on this notion of people pretending they're colorblind, which is also bullshit, but I was watching Ash last night. You watched Ash?

Yeah, of course. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I loved it. We'll get to it. Oh my God, exciting. I haven't talked to anyone that has watched it. Oh yeah. This happens to me more and more frequently now

when I'm watching movies. If I hadn't done to anyone that has watched it. Oh yeah. This happens to me more and more frequently now when I'm watching movies. If I hadn't done research on you, I just wouldn't have considered your ethnicity in any capacity whatsoever. And I wouldn't even guess, I wouldn't know. It was quite irrelevant. Also, people are much more now mixed, just as our population is much more mixed.

There's tons of people now that I see on camera, and I think this is a good thing, where it's like, if you asked me later what they were, I'd be like, oh, I don't know, I have no clue. I wasn't even thinking of it. That's what it should be. But that's exactly how I feel with artistry. When I was in Mexico, I started in soap operas.

We were all Mexican. When we were playing roles, they weren't like, oh, this person needs to be from Germany. They need a German person to hire someone slightly Mexican, slightly white. So this sort of thought of where you're from and what you can play never existed in my head. And I worked since I was really young.

I started when I was 13, 14. When I moved here, I was 24. So when I got here, I'd be on the first few phone calls with my agents or the first few things that I read, especially when I came here, because it's a night and day since I've moved here. The industry has flipped completely. I'd be like, oh, this takes time.

They're like, yeah, they're looking for more of a Caucasian. By the way, I didn't even know the word Caucasian. I didn't even understand what that meant. That's when I come to being super self-conscious. Well, maybe limited. Yes. My artistry now is limited based on the piece of land that I was born. Yeah. And my first play was Greece.

I played Rizzo and like the thought in my mind never passed through that I have to be American. So when I started transitioning to the US market, it was really challenging and it made me feel really insecure because I felt like my artistry was limited to playing Latin forever. At the time when I was playing Latin, it was really stereotypical. It really deflated my spirit because I went into it wanting to play an astronaut or a scientist. And the first few years of my career was really impossible. Even with the blessing that I had thanks to my parents,

which was having very fluent English and speaking other languages. And I don't say it in an, oh, poor me. To me was life changing the moment that Guy Ritchie let me play English. We could argue that there's a million people that could have played it better than me that were English. Maybe a hundred thousand.

I don't think I'm million. Not that many, yeah. You're like, math ain't mathing here either. I grew up watching actors. And I guess in hindsight, white actors, actresses that could play everything. I mean, I remember my mom were watching all the Godfathers and then it sort of sent us to Scarface

and we were watching it. I was like, the world that Al Pacino was playing, like Italian but then Cuban, and I never thought of it in any capacity. Yeah, he's played Jewish, Italian, Cuban. And no one said anything. And then somehow I've been in places and roles that if I'm not specific type of Latina, then

I'm not even being considered. It's a very complex, nuanced conversation, right? Because you do want to create opportunity. The Native Americans, they don't get enough representation. Yeah. And so I'm always sort of torn because I do want people to get opportunities and get more chances, but I don't want Native Americans to just play Native Americans. I want them to play anyone.

It's just taking away the description in the role that this should be a 24-year-old white woman. Maybe it could be anyone. It has gotten a ton better. It has definitely gotten better. Once that's gone, then I think there'll be less of, well, this person's Asian and they should be Native. That will go away if the opportunity is there for everybody.

You got into acting, dancing, painting all at 12, 13, because your dad died in a motorcycle accident. I hate that for many, many reasons. I'm sorry. No, it's OK. And obviously you guys were very, very close, as you already said. Super close. And mom wanted to just keep you busy and distracted. Yeah.

Was there space for what you were going through? I didn't think there was. I just looked up to him with so much admiration. I was daddy's little girl. Good luck future suitors. Yes, now we got it. Here we are. When you have such an amazing father,

truly, I don't say that lightly, it was really, really the toughest moment in my life. I just went into complete shock and my mother was really, really suffering. I look back at it and it just feels like a not even real time in my life because it all happened so fast. My mom took me to extracurricular classes to distract me

and I went into musical theater and that's where it just clicked. I think about it all the time being a young child and I sat my mother down and I said I need to have a very serious conversation. I was 12. I was like, we're done. I don't have to continue studying. I'm an actress. She's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, I'm dropping out of school. I'm retiring from school. I'm dropping out and we're full on going into this. And I don't know what type of crack cocaine was she on that she allowed me to do it because she saw me so happy. Well, maybe she also was like, life is short.

What's the point of all this? How did she take it? My guess is at 12, you would be dealing with your own loss, but then also trying to cheer mom up or regulate mom a bit. Yeah, I feel so much empathy for my younger self. Not only that, my career was so jarring because I got thrown into it overnight. And I was so young and I was so not mentally,

physically prepared. I was a grieving, depressed, sobbing, eating compulsively, child, with raging anxiety. And that was really challenging because you sort of get thrown into this child star perfection. What age did you get the first telenovela?

14, and it was really overnight. Flores Sienta? Yeah, it was called, original was Flores Sienta, and my remake was called Lola Once Upon a Time. Lola Era Si Una Vez. And it was a show from Argentina. Originally.

We shot in Mexico, but it was the biggest show in literally history of children out there. And so I got the remake and it was a pretty big deal. It was like a national wide search and they saw thousands and I got it and I was just so naive. My mom wasn't like a stage mom where she wanted me to be famous and people think that because she was a model.

But my mother never wanted me to be in the business. She just was letting me be, but she never made me self-conscious about my looks, never made me feel pressured. So I was like a very normal 14 year old. I was like a chubby, not polished girl. I was not doing my makeup. I was quite ratty and I was quite of a tomboy because I grew up with boys because my brother's 13 years older than me.

The shock was really aggressive because overnight they were like, wow, she's so ugly. She's fat. She's not talented. My dad had been passed for like less than a year, a year and a half. I was so excited because I loved what I did. It was so earnest. I loved singing. It was the only moment that I felt happy. Yeah. Can I ask really quick, what was the work schedule of that?

Brutal. So studying and set, schooled, working 17 hours a day. So they don't have the same laws. No. Yeah, no, no. And you're shooting like 15, 20 scenes a day. Cause it's soap style, right? Yeah.

It's a machine. And then I would get on the plane right after I would finish on Friday, straight to tour. So I tour Friday, Saturday, Sunday, get back Monday. Goes for years. So you started reading about yourself on the internet? Yeah, it was brutal. I went into a heavy depression.

Cause this would have been 2004, five. And so you could go online and what was- MySpace. Oh. Oh MySpace there we go. I remember it like it was yesterday so they did this presentation they've been waiting to see who the girl was because it was like a really big show. It was like the American office it was like who's gonna be in the American office. Exactly it was the equivalent I would say like Hannah Montana. Right right. This major presentation where like came out on a stage and they put me in these crazy dress. I looked insane and I came out. I didn't really know what I was getting myself into.

I was just happy to be there. And the next day, my mom was watching the morning news and these 40 year olds were sitting there ripping into me. God, it's so embarrassing for them. 40 year old men and women being like, wow, she's so ugly. She's fat. Wow, she's so ugly. She's fat. Wow, she's not even talented.

It was ruthless. Looking back at it, because now we've become so aware of like, you can't talk like this. Not in Mexico. You're talking about like real third world country type of shit. And it was never ending. You never got the looks or the body

they were hoping you to get. Or talent or smart. And if I'd said something, I was the worst. If I didn't respond, I was conceited. You're already so self-conscious as a teenager. I'm 14. Jesus. I went crazy.

I remember when I was 23 and I got a nose job. And then they were like, look at her. Now I was insecure. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then I was uglier. And then now I had all this done to myself. And then they would doctor photos and sell them to sell papers.

And we didn't have law of defamation of a character in Mexico, a president removed it. So you couldn't sue. So you had to like let it go. You couldn't fight the magazines. So it haunted me forever. So my life was always sort of terrifying. I moved here escaping that. I didn't even want to cross over to America.

There was an event too. It's a juicy event Monica. It is really funny. You were on Lola too. So you're in another show Lola. I am in Amores Verdaderos, which is another soap opera. It's like the bodyguard. I fall in love with the bodyguard.

My mom falls in love simultaneously with the bodyguard. Oh my God. A love triangle between mother, daughter and a bodyguard? No, no, two different bodyguards. Oh thank God. It's like a freaky Friday but. mother, daughter, and a bodyguard. No, no, two different bodyguards. Oh, thank God. Oh, it's like a freaky Friday, but. Yeah, but everyone gets a bodyguard. But there's bodyguards, and they're all hot.

Yes. All very attractive bodyguards. But you had a boyfriend, how long were you guys together at that point? I try to forget. Okay. But I think it'd been like two years. At 20 years old, so that's 10% of your life.

That's a huge chunk of your life when you think about it that way. And she sees a headline one morning. Oh no. Her boyfriend has a sex tape. Oh my. But Monica, she's not in it. I'm not in it.

Was he famous too? Was he an actor? No. Oh my God, this time of my life. This is awful. My life is really like a soap opera. Yeah, it's like life art. Yeah, like maybe I should make a movie

like the Disaster Artist. Oh, it would be great if your boyfriend was your bodyguard at that time. Oh my God. That would have been incredible. I should have just cheated with my bodyguard. Very sim. So he was a owner of restaurants

and the nightlife kind of guy. It was really funny because everyone's not funny for him. So he's gonna hate me for this, I'm so sorry. Doesn't seem like you need to apologize. No, I don't, yeah. It was the cover of this magazine and they had like little stars covering his private parts. And it's like, he has a sex tape, but it's not me.

Oh boy. And so I remember he emailed. He didn't email you preemptively going, this is coming out. He waited until you found out from the press. In Mexico, you don't know. Again, no defamation. That's wild, wild west.

When people complain about the UK press, I'm like, live in Mexico's press for three months. If you survive, I will applaud you. That makes you like a different type of person. And so he emailed, this was a really funny story. A lot happens, chaos, drama, I don't pick up the phone, I'm screaming. And so he thinks that the best idea is to send this email

where he CCs my brother, my mother, his whole family. Ay, ay, ay. Me. How do you say me? You're just in there. You're like one of like 20. You know when you open CC and you're just like, you're like step in.

Oh no. And the title was like, let me explain or something. Oh, please. To not get into detail, he's like going back and forth about how this sex tape wasn't well-being with me. The comparison was him in his underwear and sending screenshots of the sex tape to my mom. Oh, wow.

His family. Saying, I don't even have this underwear anymore. I don't know that. I don't have that tattoo. He's pointing out tattoos. Oh, shit. And I am just like, what are you? I don't even have this underwear anymore. You know that. I don't have that tattoo. He's pointing out tattoos. And I am just like, what are you? So he mounted a defense to your whole family.

So a whole defense, which maybe if I was in that situation, I would have done the same thing. I don't know if I would see someone's brother with my body naked and photos of before and after, like a selfie of him with his underwear. And my brother just sent me a message. He said, what's going on? Why do I have photos of this guy naked on my email?

And so anyway, I left Mexico. It was so jarring. That's a lot. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Airbnb. For some of our all-time favorite trips, we've stayed in Airbnbs. The unique homes can make the stays so much more fun. Some trips are better in an Airbnb.

Keep listening for more about Airbnb later in this episode. Imagine this. You help your little brother land a great job abroad. But when he arrives, the job doesn't exist. Instead, he's trapped in a heavily guarded compound, forced to sit at a computer and scam innocent victims, all while armed guards stand by with shoot-to-kill orders. Scam Factory, the explosive new true crime podcast

from Wondery, exposes a multi-billion dollar criminal empire operating in plain sight. Told through one family's harrowing account of sleepless nights, desperate phone calls, and dangerous rescue attempts, Scam Factory reveals a brutal truth. The only way out is to scam their way out. Follow Scam Factory on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Scam Factory, early and ad free, right now, by joining Wondery+.

At 24, I lost my narrative, or rather it was stolen from me. And the Monica Lewinsky that my friends and family knew was usurped by false narratives, callous jokes, and politics. I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours. Something you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately you triumph in finding it again. So I think listeners can expect me to be chatting with folks, both recognizable and unrecognizable names, about the way that people have navigated roads to triumph.

My hope is that people will finish an episode of Reclaiming and feel like they filled their tank up. They connected with the people that I'm talking to and leave with maybe some nuggets that help them feel a little more hopeful. Follow Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Reclaiming early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.

["Wonderful Music"] Do we believe that it was from an era that you weren't together? Did the tattoos prove his? Yes. Cause this actually happened to me. One of these trashy magazines ran this article about me saying I had hooked up with this girl while I was dating Kristen.

I did hook up with that girl, but it was way before I met Kristen. And luckily I have a tattoo in it that I had covered right before I met Kristen. So this is like a sensitive subject to you. For me, it really was that. It was a lie. And thank God the tattoo absolved me of that.

Cause Kristen met me and I'd already had that one covered. It wasn't a sex tape. It was just a picture of her and I together at an event. You were kissing. We weren't even kissing. I just had my arm around her. Yeah, cause these magazines, they do makeup so much. And she lied to them for sure. This woman had sold stories about three other people. and I just had my arm around her. Yeah, because these magazines, they do make up so much. Everything's made up.

And she lied to them for sure. This woman had sold stories about three other people. She also banged an AA. I met her in AA. I'm obsessed. She was out of money and she's getting high and this was a fourth story. That's horrible.

She just lied to them. I guess they believed her. Did you send nude photos of you to compare it to your wife? To Kristin's dad immediately. Yeah. I got a card and I sent Tom a picture. Oh, God. Well, I didn't want him to think I was a loser.

Sure, of course. I've said this story before because it's a Phoenix story and I always bring this to my dad's death. You couldn't think of something more tragic than losing a parent. And my father would have never let me be an actress. You would have had to fight him and have a big separation for him.

No, it had never happened. I was convinced that his narrative was my narrative. And I say with all the love because he didn't mean it in a mean way, but he wanted the best for his daughter. And he thought economy, making money, artistry, modeling, acting, it didn't sound like. You had Salma Hayek, that was it.

And still, by the way, we're not a lot that are from Mexico that crossed over yeah and so when I did that I thought amazing positive things can happen from horrific situations and that's kind of been my life thanks to that I moved here I rented a little bedroom and my mom had the brilliant idea I'd always wanted to act here, but I never thought it was like a reality. I studied in Lee's Strasburg, and they educated us that you need an agent,

you need a manager, you need a lawyer. And I was like, I have no into any of this. And she said to me, I've heard about this thing, it's called IMDB Pro, have you heard of it? I was like, mom, you need a manager and agent. She's like, no, no, I heard I can put my email under your profile and then we can get auditions. I was hiding, I was in depression here after that.

I was distraught, my boyfriend, it was a public, real, big, brutal thing. I was already the black sheep in the business. People loved to like really hate me, which was always interesting because I never understood why. Well, I think still this happens here. People pick a villain or a scapegoat.

We like archetypes. And if you're a woman, I think at the time, the way you see me, I come in strong and confident. And I think that the confidence was off-putting. They liked a woman that they would kind of bully. Well, they also want to see young actors just exude gratitude. Which I did, but I think I didn't do it in the way because I always felt like I had to defend myself constantly

about something that I hadn't done. And that's how I felt here too for many years. There was this underlying, I always needed, wanted to be here through man or because I was dating someone disregarding my 10 year career in Mexico because for people that was irrelevant. When I started dating Josh, they would write, I was using him.

And I've always wanted to talk about this publicly but I've never found where to do it in a safe space. They sort of tied this desperation to me as a Latin woman, like I was coming and wanting to cross over when I had already had a career. And funny enough, they would say that I would call or tip off paparazzis when they forget that 99% of the paparazzis and the kitchens and the belays,

who works the kitchens? Who works the kitchens? Who works the valets? Oh, yeah, yeah, Mexicans? Yeah. And I had 10 years of a career in Mexico. I was huge in Mexico. So every time I'd walk into a restaurant or go somewhere,

they would call. They knew, yeah. They knew. But because people here didn't know who I was, they were like, who is this weird bitch who came out of nowhere? She's calling the paparazzi for attention. And it was so crazy because it was a combination of,

I had no value, but at the same time, it was also sort of set in a way that was criminating of something that I wasn't doing. And it stayed for long and it was this sort of sense of the experience of being an immigrant. I wasn't worthy of being here. Is it possible you were also inflating how big this narrative was?

I think that when you're incriminated of something that you're not doing, it always feels that way. Yeah. Because I felt really frustrated how to navigate it because I'm a person that'll be like, that's completely fucking untrue. So I don't even care.

But at the same time, I was being guided to like not engage into it because you feeding it. Maybe it wasn't as big, but I felt injustice, complete character assassination of who I am. You're selling someone that I'm not. I hate people that get incriminated for things that they didn't do. In criminal justice, when people get wrongly convicted,

it boils my blood. I have the same thing. It really gets under my skin. When someone's miscalculated or misjudged. When they talk about people publicly, it's so triggering for me. It drives me nuts because I've been that person. To add to your point, I worked really hard.

I didn't let that define me. Yeah, yeah. And I cried in silence many days to just not let it become who I was because it was really prevalent at the beginning of my career. I also was dating and I didn't want to stop my dating life because I was looking for love. I would have fallen for him in one second. I think was dating and I didn't want to stop my dating life because I was looking for love.

I would have fallen for him in one second. I think I did as a guy. For Josh? Yeah. He was my crush when I was little. You dated your celebrity crush too. I did. And it's exciting. You're like 23.

Oh yeah. Sorry, I'm not smarter at the time to be like, you know what, I'm above this. No. It's just to say like the interesting of perception versus reality. Yeah. So mom put you on IMDB Pro and then impossibly

Mary Vernue calls you in to read for Dust Till Dawn Reboot. Mary Vernue, by the way, is another person. She's in the same camp. As Alison Jones. As Alison Jones. I don't know her. Oh, Mary Vernue is cast the most incredible. Amazing.

Yeah, she's the- She's just scrolling through. I mean, talk about someone's doing their work. Seriously. They're on IMDB to find you without a manager or an agent. So, random, you know who found me was Robert Rodriguez. He was watching TV and he saw me in Univision.

I was on some awards and he saw me speaking English. And he said, Mary Feiner. And so I was in Mexico in the middle of a bridal shoot I'm wearing a ginormous bride dress and I had a flip phone that I had bought at the OXO like a 7-eleven to have an American number because I was studying in Strasbourg so I had a 9-1-7. I opened my flip phone I have a text from Mary Vanuja and I'm like who's this she's like I'm a casting director I'm like okay she's like can you tape yourself

so I taped myself against the wall with a wedding dress on the bottom. Oh my God. And like a t-shirt on the top. And then I flew in the next day and yeah, he cast me. Okay, now you go to Austin for two years. Obsessed. Austin is my favorite city in the country. I'm going two days.

Salpa. Yes. Nice. Oh, I'm going in a few weeks. Where did you live? How was it? How many months were you there to shoot that? Did you go to Barton Springs? Yeah. Okay.

Have you been to Cedar Point? Tell me about all of this. Yes. Did you go to Salt Lick and sit outside on the cooking tables? Yes. It's my favorite time of my life. It was such an amazing introduction to realistically living in America. Because I'd been in and out. I'd been in New York for school. And lived in Argentina for a few years after that and then came here.

Buenos Aires? Buenos Aires. Was that a great place? You have to go. and lived in Argentina for a few years after that and then came here. Buenos Aires. Buenos Aires. Was that a great place? You have to go. My favorite city in the world and the hottest people I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, I've heard there's a lot of sexy folks.

Sexy everything. I also heard you can buy Coke there for like 10 dollars a gram. Oh, you can't go, you can't go. You should not go. I would have to go with a lot of money. You shouldn't go. No, you're not going.

Not allowed. Yeah, so I moved to Austin and I fell in love with Austin. Keep it weird. Did you like rent an apartment or were you staying at a hotel the entire time you shot? The whole cast was living in a communal apartment complex. So we all lived together. Melrose Place.

It was Melrose Place. It was like the ultimate American experience. I'd never done the dorm thing. So it was so exciting to be like, That's so fun. Morning! And we'd be like at the pool and we all lived together. I'm jealous. It was the best. And then we would'd be like at the pool and we all lived together. I'm jealous.

I know. It was the best. And then we would eat food trucks, go to Franklin's, live in Barton Springs, run every day. And I'm obsessed with Robert. He's incredible, right? He's like my dad. When I started, he protected me a lot

of really horrible me-too things. He really was like, no one's gonna get close to her. Also the parallel though, between Salma leaving Mexico, having been huge on telenovelas, being terrified she's not gonna make it, and then breaking out in a Rodriguez movie. With the same rule. He just keeps doing it.

So you come off of that, and then you go into Baby Driver's really the next big thing in your career. Huge. It's a humongous success, makes 220 million dollars. Edgar Wright. I die for Edgar. I just really ride for the people that supported me

at the beginning. Took gambles on you or fought for you. That's like first English speaking movie ever. I was so scared. I remember walking into that set and it was like Jamie Foxx and Jon Hamm and Kevin Spacey and Ansel and John Brunthold And I was the only woman on my first day Lily James was in the movie, but we never really worked together There's no warm-up you're with heavy hitters and I was really scared and Edgar was just so kind and let me create and

Gave me so much openness and I felt so Inspired in that room, but I was fucking shitting myself, I'm not gonna lie. I was so nervous. I'm very shy, it doesn't look like I am, but I am. Yeah, that's an intimidating group to step into. Then Hobbs and Shaw, this is a Fast and Furious spinoff. This is another enormous movie.

Hobbs and Shaw, we've got The Rock. And Jason Statham. How long does that movie take to make? The movie took a long time to shoot. I was in and out. I shot in a week. David Leach called me. He's like, would you come?

I was shooting Godzilla versus Kong in Australia. And I had a week off between location and location. And so they fixed my schedule so I could go and shoot. They wrote that role. And so they popped me in to be part of the franchise, whatever was gonna happen, nothing happened. David Leach, I did his first 20-minute short when I was a ground lean. No way!

Yes, and he was still doubling Brad Pitt or somebody huge as a stunt man. The best. And then to see Fall Guy, which I think is the best movie of last year. I just couldn't be happier for that guy. And Kelly, his producing partner and his wife. By the way, talk about stunts,

need to be honored at the Oscars like yesterday. The amount of work, Come be happy for that guy. And Kelly, his producing partner and his wife, by the way, talk about stunts need to be honored at the Oscars like yesterday. The amount of work, I've done a fair share of stunt work in my career. I've had a horrific accident. I broke my collarbones and my ribs on a set, a stunt that went wrong. Oh God.

These people are like risking their lives. A lot of stunties die in these movies and we're still not honoring them. One of my best friends got driven over by Tom Sizemore. He was not supposed to drive the car and he drove the fucking car over to Castro and drug his body. It's gnarly and they don't get enough recognition.

And these dude over and over again, like your story about getting hurt, they have like 30 lives. That's what I mean. I was gonna say, that's literally one out of, that's their day to day. And they recover and they go back into it. I know. It's a mindset. Daniel Radcliffe's stunt double was paralyzed Literally one out of that's their day to day and they recover and they go back into it

It's a mindset Daniel Radcliffe stunt double was paralyzed during one of the Harry Potter. Yes. There's a doc about it He has a memoir or something. That's supposed to be amazing. Okay, Godzilla verse Kong another enormous hit I was looking at Godzilla versus Kong and I was like, I think that one movie would put your lifetime box office above my like 25 movies. You just get in one of those fucking movies that makes like half a billion dollars. People love those movies. It's wild. And then Three Body Problem, you work with David Benioff and Weiss.

Game of Thrones for people who don't know. Yes. Oh, I wanted to mention, I care a lot. Cause that's huge. This is what's weird about movies now. So 56 million households watch this movie. I care a lot on Netflix. And if each household just bought a $10 ticket,

it's bigger than Kong. And it's like a billion dollar movie, if you think about it that way. Yeah. What's better do you think? I'm now out of it where I would have to worry about whether it's coming out on streaming or in box office. Like there's this pride of having a winning movie.

It's so rare and exciting to be a part of. But then don't you just want the maximum amount of people to see the thing you do? That's how I feel. I mean, I guess some people get paid for those things. They get back ends. I really haven't had the beauty of that. Right, a first dollar gross deal.

I've never heard of that in my life. I don't know if I will. And so I just care about the work and people watching the work and the work that I feel proud of. And sometimes I'm like hoping that never gets seen too. Sure, sure. Oh, God. So I Care a Lot was an amazing experience because it was also in the COVID era.

Everyone was in their homes watching TV. So so many people watched it more than probably would have now. And I love that movie. Where'd you shoot it? We shot in Boston. Oh, OK. Your co-star was from New Zealand. In, I care a lot. Rosamund Pike. No, she's English. Yeah. What does she think? Rose, baby.

I'm so sorry. How dare you? She's English. We are thinking of not the right person. Another Rosamund. Yeah. He's got a different friend, Rose. That's Kiwi, right? Rosemarie Giver? Yeah, Rosemarie Giver.

Oh, that's Rosemarie Giver. That's different. Yeah, Rosemarie Pike is Gone Girl. Gone Girl, Dax. Yes, I love her. My apologies to everybody. I was picturing David's friend. This is Kiwi.

She's great too. She is great too. I like her too. I don't know her, but I like her. Okay. Rosemarie Pike, she's incredible. You guys are bros now, right? Bros.

She interviewed you for Interview Magazine. She's my wife. We're wifing up. I spend a lot of time with her. She sends me raunchy photos. I send her raunchy photos. Oh, wonderful. Oh, good.

Not of yourselves, but of other people? None of us. We play lovers in the movie. We had a scene originally in that movie where I pegged a man with her. Oh wow. Okay. And what did you use to peg the young or old man? Really big black dildo. Okay. Wow. It was pretty big and I could find it. Okay great. Oh yeah. What have you had in your purse?

No, no. So basically we have this scene which was incredible. The movie starts with her sort of going on a date with Scoot McNair. It's totally scrapped out of the movie, which is a bummer because it was so good. Anyway, we would go into the scene where she's sort of saying how much she realized she doesn't like men and she's really into women. And so she's like, but you should try it. It's fun. I'm like, maybe we should try it together. And there's a scene where we would go on a date, the three of us, we would go back to the house, and you would see from the reflection on a microwave, three bodies having a threesome,

but I was pegging a man with a strap on. And then we'd come out and they'd be like, yeah, it's not really my thing. And then we'd go back to being full on lesbians. And so that got scrapped out, I don't know if it was too raunchy. Maybe just a little too early in the film. It would have been a win, because don't know if it was too raunchy. Maybe just a little too early in the film. It would have been a win.

It was funny, it was great. But since then, we just have photos of each other just with raunchy things. And so she sent me for my wrap gift a ginormous strap on. Wow. Wonderful. Does the intimacy coordinator know about all this? Yeah, we would get in trouble.

We would get really. No, you both consented. You're both good about it. And then this is me sending her my wrap gift. Oh, you're wearing it. And I'm wearing it. Wow. Wonderful.

This is really something. This is too personal, but in that filming of that, where you're like, maybe I would want to do this to somebody. Yeah, did it seem fun? I was kind of fascinated by it. I'm not gonna lie. I don't know if it is my kink.

Well, we know cannibalism isn't your thing. No, definitely not mine. But maybe this one's more. I just imagine there could be a moment where you're like, that doesn't appeal to me at all. Now I've put this thing on. I definitely was fascinated by it. There's something about your hips hitting someone else's

and you are the business end. Yeah. I can imagine a gal doing that and going like, oh, I get it. I see how that is powerful. I get the psychology behind it and how that could be, yeah, a fetish. I'm never a no to things.

I'm always a yes to trying things and discovering. Yeah. Not done yet. Just fictionally. Well, but you have the apparatus. Also, it sticks on the walls. I have it like on a window. But what could be really terrifying to a man

is if on his third date with you, he was going to the bathroom and he saw this and he's like, oh, fuck. This is her thing. It's happened. She's gonna, oh, it's happened. I'm sure it's happened. Because I had it in my house. So one time I did this movie,

like it's a lot of explaining. Six years ago. If I was a dude, I wouldn't believe it. Let me show you the picture. Let me show you wife, see? Do you know Rosamund Pike? Not from New Zealand. She's not from New Zealand.

It's the other way around. Very English. Very English. You should have her here. You would laugh a lot by the way. She seems awesome. Awesome. So you did one movie with Guy Ritchie,

and now you've done, I imagine you already shot it. I've done three. So I've done the Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare. Then I did a movie called In the Gray that comes out later this year. Oh. Okay. With Jake Gyllenhaal and Henry Cavill. And then I did the third one, which comes out later-ish this year. How quickly is he shooting movies? Back to back. Does he grill on set and you eat the grilled food? We went carnivore on

Fountain of Youth. Krasinski tried it. He was successful for a minute. I think he did it. And then Natalie is vegetarian, so she did not do that. It has to be the biggest nightmare for a vegetarian to be surrounded by people that are just eating red meat. Because he was losing weight, I was sort of into the whole biohacking of it, all fascinated by it. And so we would grill just steak and steak and steak

and more steak with butter every single day. Oh my God, how's your heart? My cholesterol's good and I eat. You have to kind of get tested. Almost exclusively red meat. I really had a heart test. Mine's lower than yours. Yeah, but that's genetic. God, how's your heart? My cholesterol's good and I eat. You have to kind of get tested. Almost exclusively, red meat. I would have had a heart attack. Mine's lower than yours. Yeah, but that's genetic.

Yeah, that's genetic. Exactly. So that's the whole thing. So you have to be genetically predispositioned. It's probably not the diet for you. It's not for you, honey. No, but I loved it. So we would grill on set every day.

Natalie Portman is in the fountain of youth. Yes. Forget those dudes on the set of Baby Driver. The dream. I'm so intimidated if I'm you. Intimidation central. Like if I've got to do the two-hander with Bill Murray, who I idolize, for me Natalie Portman was the only ingenue I bought in 100%.

Period. I became an actress because of Natalie Portman. So it was pretty wild. I was trying really hard to be cool. I was just like, hi. so warm. Like I'm like you. And I like know everything in a creepy, like probably she could sue me kind of way. I was so uncool.

But did you penetrate? Did you eventually? Yes, it's easy because she's the nicest person ever. I couldn't stop staring at her. It's only happened to me twice with her and Marion Cotillard when I did a show with her. You're like, how do you look like this? Transfixed.

Totally. And she was so fun to work with, really challenging physically, and Marion Cotillard when I did a show with her. You're like, how do you look like this? Transfixed. Totally, and she was so fun to work with. Really challenging physically, water tanks for hours, freezing cold in the air of the UK. And we were laughing all the time. We would always be like joking about it. She has the best humor,

Krasinski obviously has the best humor. And it was good vibes all day long, and it was a dream job, and I couldn't believe it. Where'd you shoot that? We shot everywhere. We went to Thailand. Then we went to Vienna. Then we went to Egypt.

There's like a dream vacation. Yeah, but not the water baths. That's how you pay for the trip. But it's cool though. Like how many times can you say, well I was in some weird water tank for hours with Natalie Portman. You're right, you're right.

I'll take it. It was an amazing experience. So we have become quite tight with Guy Ritchie. Okay, so Ash, which I watched last night. What about Mr. and Mrs. Smith really quick? You did a little cameo. I love that. I loved that show.

How good is that show? So good. How good, how good. Hiro, the director, did such an amazing job. And yeah, he called Skarsgard and me. We had already worked together on Godzilla. He was like, would you guys come and play for like a few days? And we want your stereotypical couple of what you would think Mr. Smith is going to be.

Exactly. And then turn it on its head. And it was fun. You think we're going to be in it, and we're like dead. Yeah. Hopefully we'll make it back. Maybe it could be a throwback. Yeah, you never know. You think we're gonna be in it, and we're like dead. Hopefully we'll make it back. Maybe it could be a throwback. You never know.

You never know. So Ash, I would say it's got two really great parallels. It really reminded me of Moon. Did you ever watch Moon? Yes, Moon. Oh my God. Did you ever see Moon? I don't know Moon.

You should watch it. That's incredible. That's a huge reference. And that's someone's kid directed that? David Bowie's kid or something? Is that what it was? Oh wow. Duncan Jones. But is Duncan Jones somebody's kid? Is Duncan Jones the? That David Bowie's kid or something? Is that what it was? Oh, wow. Duncan Jones.

But is Duncan Jones somebody's kid? Is Duncan Jones the child of David Bowie? Yes. But does not share the Bowie last? Just wanted to separate, it's kinda like- Nick Cage. Nope, a Anderson Cooper. Or he was a Coppola.

Right. Do you know, Nicholas Cage is really Coppola. Oh, really? He's in the Coppola family. He wanted to make it on his own, so he gave himself Cage. You blow my mind. And do you know about Anderson his own, so he gave himself cage. You've blown my mind. And do you know about Anderson Cooper? He's a Vanderbilt.

The journalist. His mother is Gloria Vanderbilt. Oh my God. And also Emilio Estevez not using Sheen. You're right. That was a good move. Sheen, Martin Sheen. Oh, Martin Sheen.

Charlie Sheen, Martin Sheen, Emilio Estevez, they're a family, but look at this. Some people need their own path. What? We're really giving you a really quick this. Some people need their own path. What? We're really giving you a really quick education. So maybe this is a moment to tell you that I've changed my last name. Yes.

Can you imagine? From Streisand? Yeah, yeah, Barbra Streisand. Yes, I couldn't be more like her. And then of course, Alien. Yes, Alien. Is obvious. So who made this?

Flying Lotus is an artist. So he's a musical prodigy. He's incredible, he's a producer. Okay. And I was a humongous fan of his music and I had seen this insane crazy movie called Cuso that he did before this. There's really not a plot. It's just a crazy, brutal, gory, insane movie.

It feels like you're watching back in the day, late night MTV, just weird. And I was obsessed with him and the script came across my table and I was really yearning for something that was in the horror space, bizarre and creepy. And I like a psychological thriller. This felt really in the vein and he showed me his visuals.

I mean, we made that movie for no money. It's very impressive. Okay, so it's set in the future. You are a group of earthlings that is trying to explore and find another planet that would be habitable. And you touch down on this planet in this pod. And when we meet you, you have amnesia. You don't know what the fuck's going on.

Your head is damaged and everyone on the crew is dead. And we're kind of piecing together a Mentos style what happened. Feels like psychosis. It's a discombobulating movie. Yeah, you're dealing with like amnesia, but also kind of madness. Like we're not quite sure,

is this person insane or not? We don't know why everyone's dead. Creepy and good. And then we have Aaron Paul pops in and he ostensibly is trying to figure out what happened as well. But in classic movie like these, we don't know who's friend and who's foe.

Twisties? Yeah. Lots of twisties, but visually really, really original. And it had a tension and a chaos that substance. Oh, fun. It's that kind of unsettling. That's how I describe, you're doing a perfect job of describing. Substance in space.

Yeah, substance in space. Wow. Because when we got this movie, it was a wild card. Everyone was like, are you sure you want to do this? And I was like, yeah, it's insane. I don't even know what's going to turn out to be because it's like when you think you know, you don't know and it gets crazier and it gets crazier. Well, a lot of them you go like,

oh, this is either gonna be incredible or it's gonna suck and that's fun. I'm willing to take the risk. This is fun. I can see his vision because he had like a very strong point of view and I trust people that have strong points of view when it comes to creative.

In my experience, Edgar Wright, Guy Ritchie, Bob Zemeckis, like work with people that have points of views, you're in it. And when the substance sort of took a life of its own, I was like, oh, I'm glad people are open to crazy films. And it is slightly camp, but also uncomfortable and weird and dark and brutal. It goes from psychological thriller to really gory,

really bloody and back and forth. It's dark, it's a crazy movie. And it has this element of oxygen, which is always fun. So like you're watching, you're kind of holding your breath a lot of the time, is she gonna run out of oxygen? I think this is a very like Angelina Jolie role. Oh really? Yeah.

If this movie was made in 97, I think Angelina Jolie would do this. She was quite a risk taker, I think, with her choices. I think she had similar, the bad word would be hangups. She had a similar fear of only being hot. Yeah, needing to prove herself. Yeah, and I think she did a lot of things that were unflattering intentionally to break out of that.

And so this very much mirrored, I think, that experience she's had. That makes me happy to hear that you felt that way. But I'm gonna really applaud you as an actor. You have almost no lines in this movie. Most of the movie is you processing flashbacks. You have to react to all this stuff that you're not seeing. You're in a scene by yourself.

You sit at a desk and they go, okay, cameras. Now you gotta take us through these flashbacks. You have to take us through the anxiety and the tension of trying to figure out how the fuck you are, where you are at. Anything we're gonna learn from you, we just have to see. And you did an incredible job. I was quite blown away.

Thank you, that means a lot because you just nailed it in the headway. I picked this role. I've always craved, I guess coming from soap operas and I talk a lot too as you can tell. We love talkers. Yeah, I'm a heavy talker and I fill space, my anxiety with speaking. I've always, I think secretly, wanted to experience what that was like to be able to feel comfortable in that space because I don't think that people see me as a type of actress ever because the roles

that have flashed into the Sci Guys have been quite the dynamic ones. And I personally like these performances way more. And so I really enjoyed it and I was really scared. And I had come off of a run of doing, like three body problem was one of the most challenging jobs I've ever had because while everyone was sort of rooted on factual things, I had to be creating this anxiety building moments with like nothing in the show. I'm watching numbers coming and I'm becoming suicidal

and I'm going through a really hard time where I'm seeing this boat get sliced completely that I never saw. So a lot of my performance came to childlike imagination. That's a scary place to be as an actor, as you know. You came from lunch, you have a real life. You walked over, you can't even connect with another actor in the scene.

You can't run in. You're relying only on imagination. And then gauging how much is too much, how little is too little. What is over the top, what is not over the top, you're not giving enough, you don't have a real gauge. When you're in a scene, you're bouncing off of each other. Here you're just like free falling.

I had done that back to back. I went from that to three body problem. And that was scary. Some people can call it a success and people will be like, I don't love it. But at least I felt really proud. Have you seen three body problem? So there's an episode in Three Body Problem.

Something really major happens. It's like the Red Wedding on Game of Thrones. It's like a crazy episode. Thousands of people get killed and we're seeing it sort of unravel in front of our eyes, but we're seeing it on screens, but nothing was happening. So you're just seeing this ginormous sort of tragic moment happening, but we're seeing nothing.

And we have no idea what the effect is gonna look like, how severe, how not severe. You really rely on your director, and if you're lucky, you have an amazing director. If you're unlucky, you don't have an amazing director. You're just scared for three months. For a three body problem, I was scared for two years. Two years of like bracing,

because my whole performance on that show, I'm the only one that is relying on nothing, because I'm talking to myself myself I'm looking at things. You're talking yourself so hard on camera like a mirror scene where you gotta look in the mirror You're like oh my god guys. Yeah, it'd be believable. I think it looking at myself but I've never spoke to myself. Never, not once.

Yeah but some people do if they're not well. Okay. I've seen it. They're having like a conversation with a second party that's in the mirror. Hopefully that's not me and hopefully I've seen it. They're having like a conversation with a second party that's in the mirror. Hopefully that's not me and hopefully I'm never there. Pretending that you can do it is terrifying. But yeah, so anyway, it's challenging and I appreciate you.

We have many scenes where lights up, she is leaking tears, processing this thing. Yeah, I was like, God bless. To kind of build an arc is where it becomes scary. That's where I find hard in the psychological thriller type of like discombobulating films, because same on Three Body Problem, you have to build an arc.

Yeah, you have to be your craziest at the end of the second act. But you don't know because especially on Ash, Flying Lodas was sort of like, I can move scenes around. And I was like, wait, wait, what do you mean? It's not a super linear story. No, but actually it's the most fun, because then I would play every scene differently.

And then he had like an array of things to pick from. So that's kind of the dream. I can be quite type A, and I used to have gotten better at it. Because I came from a school of, there are certain directors that want a very specific type of performance, and I had worked in a row with a lot of those directors.

So it was very healing for me to go into plays where like, just go for it. And I was like, what do you mean? Yeah. Like go for it. And that felt scary for me for a while. And so it was great. And so we played a lot of different things.

["Rambo's Theme"] Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare. ["The Big Game"] Bye. I'm sure that movie made you better. Yeah, good challenge. I hope so. That was a big exercise.

That was like heavy weight, heavy reps. I'm really scared of this movie. You did such a good job. Thank you. I hadn't seen many of these movies, so. I know you're gonna be watching, I care a lot now, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah movies, so. I know you're gonna be watching I Care A Lot now for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You really sold it. But wait, didn't you cut the pegging scene? Yeah, boring now. Now I don't need to see it. There's little heavy makeouts here and there, but no pegging. Where do people see it? It comes out. March 21st. March 21st.

And movies. It's a wide release. Why I'm also really scared. That's awesome though. We need a lot of love. Please go watch it. Go to the movies. The movies are fun. I miss the movies. And it's a horror movie. I love going to the movie theaters for a horror movie. Exactly. Or like Substance as you said was such a good movie to see in the movie theater. I loved it. Cause everyone's into it and laughing and kind of screaming and it's that communal thing we just don't get anymore. Exactly.

Wait, did you work with Josh now that I think of it? Yeah, we did a movie called When in Rome, You Don't Need to See It. Kristen's the lead, Josh is her love interest. I'm one of three suitors trying to get Kristen. Weird. From a long time ago. Oh yeah, this was within the first three months of us dating.

18 years ago we made this movie. Wait, so you were dating before you did the movie? Yes, which is a wonderful story because Disney did not want to hire us. We'd been dating for three months. They're like, we're not hiring a three month boyfriend and girlfriend and then they break up in three weeks

and then the whole movie's ruined. By the way, that's very smart, right? One of my best friends, Andrew Panay, Yorgo, was the producer and I was like, George, I promise you, no matter what, I will not break up with her. At least while I'm filming the movie. Yes, we barely made it.

We were living together, it was a disaster for us living together three months in and shooting a movie together. Because they were in Italy. Only for a week, mostly it was this dark apartment in New York where we were in for like two months. You just weren't here, so you had to live together. Yes, yes, we were shooting in New York and then in Italy.

So you said let's just jump in and straight up live together while making a movie. That sounds insane. I'm like so frugal. Well, let's combine our living thing and then we'll pocket the thing. We get home and the relationship is in a state of total disrepair.

We decide to go to a couple's therapist, her therapist. Like three months? Well, now we've shot a movie together. Because they were about to break up. So now we're four or five months. Yeah, I'm out. We took a motorcycle trip home to Michigan. It was a disaster.

I left like, I hope I never see this person again as long as I lived. I'm sure she felt the same way. We get home, we go to couples therapy and I say to the therapist, I go, you know, I made this promise to not break up with her during the movie cause of my friend. But now we're back in real life

and I don't know that we're gonna make it. And he goes, well, it's really interesting you're saying you're back in real life. Because actually that was real life. You commit, we're not breaking up. And I was like, oh my God. That's just so stupid, but I honestly was like, oh wow, that is it.

You go, no, no, under no circumstances. So we must figure out how to make this work because we're not breaking up. So weirdly it was a kind of a breakthrough in life. And how many years are we in now? 18th year. Wow. Frozen is my favorite movie of all time.

It is? Well, good news, you'll have three and four coming your way. I don't think any adult that has no children has watched Frozen as much as I have. That's the first time I've heard that. Well, if you like musical theater and singing. I would go on dates with guys

and I'd have my Spotify shuffle. And your strap on in the backseat. Yeah, in the backseat. And then all of a sudden it was like, do you wanna build a snowman? And I'm singing and they're like, this is so weird. Yeah. You can totally tell I had no childhood

and I was like a child star who got completely ripped away from having a childhood. So now I'm singing and they're like, this is so weird. You can totally tell I had no childhood and I was like a child star who got completely ripped away from having a childhood. So now I'm living it. Did you love Wicked too? I went to the movie theaters to watch it 17 times. I cried. I was blown away by it. Yeah, the one line got me to well up.

It's right before, what's the last song they sing? Is there on the bridge? Define gravity. Define gravity. It's like a stanza before that. And then anywhere, everywhere. Oh, unlimited. Unlimited.

Together we're unlimited. I got you. I was like, oh fuck, yes you are girls. Did you watch the Oscars last night? No. Oh my God. Did they rip it up? Ariana came out and sang a song from The Wizard of Oz.

She sang Somewhere Over the Rainbow. Yeah. And then Cynthia came out and sang a song from The Wiz. Oh my, wow. And then they sang together. They sang together that. Define gravity. And it was like together, we're unlimited.

It gave me chills. Just repeating it gave me chills. Also what it was saying, cause The Wiz is an African American Wizard of Oz. And it's bringing these together. It was spectacular. But it was very powerful. And it makes me really happy for John Chu.

Random, John Chu was the first person to actually cast me in a movie. Really? He did a movie that was not successful at all, and we always laugh about it, called Gem and the Holograms. I remember this. Oh yeah, and Ryan Hansen was in there. Yes, that's Ryan. Are you guys friends with Ryan? I remember this. Oh yeah, Ryan Hansen was in there. Yes, that's Ryan.

Are you guys friends with Ryan? Best friends. Best friends. He's the best. He's hilarious. Yes. He's the most charismatic man in America. The most charismatic man ever.

Can you backflips? Yes. And will, at any chance. And will. With a little provocation. And he cast me as the Misfits, which was the bad girls. And we had a little tiny scene I remember, it was Kesha, me.

And we had two lines at the end of the gem and the Hollywood school supposedly were gonna do another one, never happened. Yeah. But it was my first role actually before Baby Driver now that I think of it. Wow. And we've been friends ever since.

Yeah, he's a sweetheart. He is. All right, well, Aza, this was so fun. Thank you, guys. Really great job on Ash. Everyone watch Ash. Go to the movie theater at Skawey, and you'll have that communal experience Liza, this was so fun. Thank you guys. Really great job on Ash. Everyone watch Ash. Go to the movie theater at Skawe

and you'll have that communal experience where you're screaming and maybe throwing up a little bit. You grab your titties out of fear. You grab your titties, you're like, ooh. That's a good sign. Thank you so much for having me. I am such a fan of the podcast. I'm really happy to be here.

We were so happy to have you. I hope people don't think that I'm insane. I'm not insane. You're not insane. No one thinks that. No one thinks that. It's time to let all that go. Anxiety go. It's all behind us.

All right, adore you. Thank you. Thank you guys, bye. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gotta let him have the facts. Yeah, no, she, her all time, her like my Matt and Ben

Yeah. Is Mr. Tumnus. Who? Um, what's his name? James McAvoy. Who? Oh, great pick. I know, but she picked him while he was Mr. Tumnus.

Who's Mr. Tumnus? In like Lion Witch in the Wardrobe. So he's like a centaur or something. Oh, wow. And we were seeing in the movie theater and she was like, is he hot? And I was like, no. Wow.

And he's turned out to be quite hot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so charismatic. I guess, I've never met him. What did that just make me think? turned out to be quite hot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So charismatic. I guess, I've never met him. What did that just make me think? Oh, I renamed Whiskey, and I feel like it's such a good name for him.

What is it? First of all, conjure him in your head. Okay. A little mogwai rat. And then he eats people. Right, three legs. We decided he's Tiny Trump. Oh my God. So his new name is Trimp. I love God. So his new name is Trimp.

I love that. Picture his face and picture Trimp. That's exact. This is my dog, Trimp. Ew. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really accurate in a gross way. Trimp.

Cause it's kind of like Shrimp, which he's Shrimpy. Yeah, yeah. But then. And then what's the rat from Charlotte's Web? Templeton. Oh. So his name is Tr? Templeton. Oh. So his name is Trimp Templeton something.

I've forgotten his last name, but now he's got a whole new three names. I like that. He really looks like a Trimp. Who do you think is the perfect name to face and body, like name to person match? Brad Pitt. Really?

I guess just those words symbolize now hotness and- Yeah, but I don't know. That's like chicken are the egg. Sure. I mean more like- Oh, that reminds me, as I alerted you, on my bus trip home from Nashville, I was watching all kinds of stuff.

Mostly shit I can just listen to. Great rec if you're just driving and you wanna listen. Turning Point, that 10. It's on Netflix, it's 10 episodes, but really the history of the arms, nuclear arms race and all the twists and turns. I wrote down stuff in my notes that I wanna bring up. Thank God. You're gonna like it.

No, you're gonna like one part. Okay, great. But anyways, I gave Love Island, no, Temptation Island a chance. Right, I've never done that. I couldn't do it. I'll blame it on driving and needing to look at probably Hot Coeds.

I assume that's the whole point. It's very visual. And the most alarming thing's happening to me, which is like Hot coeds are starting to do less and less for me. That's great. I mean, is it? I mean, it's like on a self-actualized spectrum, it's good.

That's a bummer to miss. I'm sorry, I understand. Something that has been a source of like titillation and enjoyment my whole life. It's just one less thing I enjoy. Okay, I have a question, answer honestly. Yeah. Is it that just like overall the titillation

in seeing like women on screen or yeah, we'll say on screen. Even ripped dudes. You know how I like ripped dudes as well. Okay, so it's all going downhill or is it just the age has changed? Whew, yeah, how do I know? But everyone's pretty young on the show. What I think is happening is there's some sliding ratio in my head that used to be at

13. Looks was a 20. My body was just responding to what you see. And then I just feel like personality always ratcheted up and then looks priority went down. And I think that was at a really nice, even keel for a long time, long enough that I could at least look at a hot person with a repugnant personality and think that'd be tolerable for 40 minutes.

Oh, I see, okay. I can't even enjoy now. This is great. I'm turning into a woman. That's what I was literally just about to say. I know, I'm finally starting to understand how you guys feel. What's happening is you're becoming, it doesn't matter if someone talks.

Your feminine side is coming out, finally. I must be in Misogoff. Perimenopause. Perimenopause. Yeah. Yeah, but it's like- That's how it feels. They introduce themselves, right?

It's like, you know the premise. There's like 10 couples or eight couples. They come in as a couple? It's the weakest premise imaginable, which is like, we wanna make sure we can take our relationship to the next level. So we're gonna see, we're gonna really tempt each other. It's like, that's not what people looking

to take their relationship to the next level do. Conventionally. Conventionally, allegedly. But anyway, so you're sitting down, it's this weird mix of jealousy and then bravado of that they don't care. Yeah. And then the temptresses and tempters come out,

if that's the male of temp. Oh, they bring in new people. They break up the couples and the girls live in one house, the boys live in another house, and then they send in temptresses. And so like all these women come out and they're in bathing suits.

This whole thing is really fascinating. Cause what is the line? Like if you set it up, yeah, these are very vague lines. You mean like sex worker? Yeah. Like you're hiring hot people to tempt other people and then hopefully they'll hook up with, it's very, it's very blurry.

And do you think the temptresses want to date? It's not, right? They're claiming up with, it's very, it's very blurry. I mean, I guess who cares. And do you think the temptresses wanna date? It's not, right? The whole campus- They're claiming they do, but they were cast for being hot. They're not, it's not like they were like, I need to find love and I'm looking for someone already in a committed relationship that's claiming they wanna go with them.

That doesn't exist. I know. So, and you know, they're like, these aren't real names, right? I'm just making them. It's like, I'm Tierra and I put all the back up front, like all these weird sayings and then they show their butt and stuff.

They put all the back up front? That means they have a huge vagina. Well, no, I'm not mixing metaphors. I'm just saying words. Anyways. Yeah. They say these things. Yup.

You know, this guy's like, I'm a chef and I'm gonna cook you hot. You know, like all these, they got a things. You know, this guy's like, I'm a chef and I'm gonna cook you hot. You know, like all these, they got a one line. And I'm just like, you know, every time they say one of these. Of course it's so cringy. It's a bummer. Yeah.

It's a bummer. People, yeah, like you're already hot and then have to say something hot on top of it. But I'm saying all this saying, I know 10 years ago I would have, I would have made them look right through most of that stuff. Although the one I always loved was with Ryan Devlin.

What was that? Are you the one? Yeah, we loved that. Cause they really did want to fall in love. Ambien TV. Yeah. Ambien TV. Yeah.

But they were like, they thought they, people were like balling and stuff. Yeah, that's like Bachelor. Yes. Yeah. Ambien TV. Yeah. But they were like, they thought they, people were like balling and stuff. Yeah, that's like Bachelor. Yes. Yeah. But like, here's hot models that are gonna tempt you. And I just don't know how I feel about it. Anyways, I gave that a shot and then I didn't. It wasn't for you. I didn't make it.

Why did I bring that up? Just to tell you. Oh, cause we were talking about names. Yeah, names. And whose name. Whose name matches. Yeah, and did you, why did I think of- We talk about Brad Pipping hot. Yeah, hot.

Hot, that's how we got there. Yeah, I mean, look, I get it. And I used to be able to name like 10 female actors that I was like coveted. Yeah. And we're down to a couple. Really? Yeah. I mean, I'm saying really in like-

I'm dying. No, no, really like I would assume that you do not have any anymore. Oh! Like- Why would I have many? You like, when would there be a day where you like, brep, it's not hot?

No, it's not that. It's just things do change. Like even for me, you know, today an article came out in GQ about my boyfriend, one of my original boyfriends, Ben. Ben, okay. And you know, my friend said, you have to read this article about Ben. And I was like- It's a must read.

Yeah. And actually she said, I know you're more of a Mac girl but you have to read this. And then I got like old defensive, right? I was like, It's a must read. Yeah. And actually she said, I know you're more of a Mac girl, but you have to read this. And then I got like old defensive, right? I was like, it's not one or the other. They're the same. Yeah. But I know at some point in my life, the idea that there was like new info about Ben

or that he would have participated in thing. And I would have been so excited. I would have read it immediately. I would have canceled all my plans. Yes, yes, of course. And I was like, oh, I gotta read that. Like it felt like a chore. Similar.

I loved it. Oh, you did? Yeah, it's really good. What makes it so good? He's very open in it. Oh, like to what degree? Well, I also give a lot of credit to the interviewer. He's not going for low-hanging fruit. Right, like every interviewer today.

Exactly, and so in doing that, Ben says a lot of stuff. Right, because he's not on the defensive. Exactly, exactly. And I mean, he just like owns a lot of things. He talks about, I mean, I mean, there's nothing like majorly juicy, but he does talk about his relationship with Jen Lopez. And he's basically like,

yeah, everyone wants like a juicy headline. He's like, it'd be so boring if you knew the details. It's just the relationship. It's just like, she has things, I'd be so boring if you knew the details. It's just the relationship. It's just like, she has things, I have things, and it ultimately doesn't work. He's very like reflective of this thing about him that like people love to watch him spill coffee on the street.

And he said, I could have been more strategic. I should be more strategic. I shouldn't like go out and get the mail or go out in crappy clothes. I know people are gonna do a thing, but I just don't get, I don't give a fuck. Okay. And I liked that.

And then, and he said, when he looks back on old articles. I'm so grateful I'm not him. I know. I am so grateful. It's so unfair. Every now and then I see photos of me from out in front of my house.

So I'm like, oh, they sit there. You know, that's- They sit there. That's a bummer, but it's not like if I go to the store, there's ever. And that people are waiting for you to do some things very silly. Yes, and by the way, just make it through an entire walk to Starbucks from your car without looking goofy at one point.

Exactly, exactly. And he talks about his kids because he has this production company with Madden. Like the reason they started that is so he could be at home. He can like be with the kids when they get off the bus and he missed a lot of chunks. He said he missed a lot of chunks and he regrets that and he doesn't like that. And yeah, it was great. It was great. I loved it.

But also all to say like- You're interested, Wayne, to bet. Just my perimenopause is kicking in. Same. Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense because I'm Indian- Testy atrophy or something.

Testicular atrophy. An Indian and you're white, so we would be hitting it around the same time. Cause I'm white. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm 12 years, you're 12 years early. Exactly, exactly.

Can I tell you the thing that really interested me about Turning Point? Yeah. Oh wait, can we do one more thing? Yes, of course. This is still sort of on subject of hotness. So I say that, right? Oh, you were shocked that I have two still.

Oh yeah, who are they? I probably have more. You know, it was reinvigorated. I went and saw a black bag. I was just about to bring it up. You saw it? Yes. Oh my God, you know what's great?

I went solely because I saw a Fassbender was in it. I had like an afternoon off and I went, I didn't know anything about it. Yep, me either. I enjoyed it so much. Me too. The score was so good. And I was angry at myself when I saw the titles,

like, oh, Soderbergh directed it. Of course. And that's of course, that's his signature kind of music and the style. I almost wanted to rewatch it again. Oh, you didn't know to the end it was him? Yes. Oh, that's why I saw it.

I was like, oh, Soderbergh is the new- It was almost a blessing, because I was trying to figure out the tone of it quite a bit. If I knew it was Soderbergh, I knew it would be a lot more out of sight. Playful. Yeah, and I was more like,

oh, this is hardcore British espionage shit. Yes. But I loved it, but I was reminded how much I love Alicia Vikander. I didn't even realize it was her. When he's interviewing her and she's passing the polygraph, and they're talking about her anal sphincter. I didn't even realize it was her. When he's interviewing her and she's passing the polygraph and they're talking about her anal sphincter.

I didn't realize it was her the whole movie. I can tell you just said that. Am I right on that Rob? I'm looking, I don't know. That would be really embarrassing if I have the wrong actor. I mean she looks like her, now in retrospect. Did you like that actor?

Yeah, she was great. But I- Fassbender, who's your crush? Well, this is crazy that you said it because what I was about to say is, you know, we're saying this lusty thing, but I saw Black Bag and I thought it was so sexy. Yeah. And he's so sexy in it.

Which is interesting because he's so reserved. But it's like- Yeah, controlled. Yeah. His level of control is hot, right? And he loves her so much. Yeah, fucking hell. Just betray his country for her, yeah.

And she's so beautiful in it. Kate Blanchett. Yes, and also like I'm really upset because her outfits are so cute in it. Oh. And then I just want all the outfits. Okay. Okay, really bad.

Okay. Anyway. I think that was her, yeah Okay. Okay, really bad. Okay, okay. Anyway. I think that was her, yeah. I think we could probably find her. Well, you're in front of a computer. She's not listed on the IMDb. You just go to Cas Black Bag. Well, she's not listed there, but.

It's not her. The AI over here. It's not her. Marissa, no wait. Yep, Marissa Abuela. Wait, what? Does that not look like her? It does look like her. Marissa, no wait. Yep, Marissa Abuela. Wait, what? Does that not look like her? It does look like her. And they're a couple.

This girl is Marissa Abuela. She was great. Oh my God, I'm so humiliated. No, but you can add her to your list now. Although she's 28. Oh. That's a little dicey. Wow, man, I'm embarrassed.

This is actually why you're liking young people less because I do think whether you are conscious of it or not, you know that you wouldn't really wanna make that decision. Oh, I couldn't date any of these people. Is that not abundantly clear? No, no, no, it is clear, but I think when you're watching Temptation Island and it's like,

God, it's just like not doing it for me. I think it's because there's a subconscious streak now going through, as you've said before, there has to be some reality to your fantasy. Well, okay, let's back up for one second. Just go like, societally, it's disgusting. To be with a younger person. Yeah, when you're 50 years old

and you're dating a 25 year old. Well, I'm not here to judge. But I'm just saying societally, it's embarrassing. If you're out at a fucking dinner with all your peers and they all have wives as peers as I do, and you've brought a 20 year old, that's fucking embarrassing. I'm not saying people shouldn't do it

or I'm just saying I would be embarrassed to be at a dinner with all 50 year olds and I brought my 20 year old girlfriend. Yeah, so I think that's what's happening Genetically evolutionarily. No, there's no there's no reason a man would ever stop seeing fertile women as attractive That's just that it would be my culture on top of it. Yeah, but your culture's a- Oh, it is, it is. Obviously, we have also evolved out status. Like status now doesn't just necessarily mean having as many kids as, like, you're done having kids, right?

Yes, yes. Physically, you are done having kids. Unless I got a reversal of my vasect. Yeah, yeah. So you have also told- But my genetics doesn't know I got a vasectomy. I don't know. No, it can't take info in.

But the whole point that the reason that we have those genetics is still for status. It's for spreading your seed as far and wide as you can. Yeah, just to spread your seed. So genetically, I too am supposed to spread my seed. That's the pole inside. And then on top of my biology is culture that's affecting a bunch of my behaviors. All I'm pointing out is that there is no,

a mother nature rule that I would not be attracted to someone that's for going hot. I'm not saying there's a mother nature rule, but it's still, culture's still subconscious. Culture's huge, yes, it's totally subconscious. That's what I was saying, subconsciously, there is something in you that's like, that's not a reality anymore. Yeah, well, I go to, mine's very complicated.

I go to, I can't talk to, what would I talk to this person about? How would I spend hours with this person? Yeah. I'm gonna be talking about, you know, the time Prince was dead in 1983, we all thought. You did talk about that recently. Yeah, I'll continue to,

cause that's what I grew up with. Anyways, man, but I see folks my age just out doing it. I guess, I don't know, I wanna say applaud them, but I'm just like, we just have different levels. I guess it's a signal of confidence. It seems like a signal of insecurity. Yours? When I see 50 plus year old actors

with 20 year old actresses. It's either insecurity and they need this like, with 20 year old actresses. It's either insecurity and they need this like, woman to raise their status because they're beautiful. They want a reflection of themselves. Exactly, if this person likes me, then you guys should all like me, right? Which I can relate to that.

In some cases, not all. In some cases, I think it could be evidence of a lack of emotional maturity from the male, which is like they've never gone past what relationships are in your 20s. is I think it could be evidence of a lack of emotional maturity from the male, which is like they've never gone past what relationships are in your 20s. Yeah. They don't want to.

Yeah. And they want someone that also wants a three year ordeal. Yeah. And nothing more, because that's the phase they're in. Yeah, they don't want it to be that serious. Yeah. The older you get, most women want something a be that serious. The older you get, most women want something

a little more serious. So there's that. And I would imagine the percentage of three year relationships in your 20s that turn into lifetime versus three year relationships in your 30s that turn into lifetime. I think that's a dramatic difference. Probably, yes. I'm guessing though.

I would guess too, yeah. Anywho. Well, that was, do you want to add any guys to your list? I know a lot of them. Idris Elba. The guy from- That's a random one to say. The guy from Heist. Matt Ben. Sean Penn. No, oh, see, this is why it's so funny.

I know I'm sort of an outlier, like, see, this is why it's so funny. I know I'm sort of an outlier, I've always liked older men, which is so opposite from men. And I still do. I know from my female peers and friends that I, on the scale, am much more attracted to older men than they are. Do you have an explanation for that?

Yeah. That's a maturity thing? No, I think because I spent so much of my young life feeling like I had to protect everyone in the family, I like the idea of not having to do that. Right. And having a protector. To relax. So in my head, the protector has to be older. Patriarchal a little bit.

Yes. Oh, okay, interesting. Cause I was gonna harken a guess that there's also some part of you, an insecure part. Sure, I have a lot of them. That says older men value personality more. Ooh, uh-uh. No, and young men are just looking for like

whatever Instagram model to inflate their own status. No, because this is even when I was really young. Yeah, right. Like when I was really young. Freakily concocted this whole. Yeah, I didn't, like, I wasn't like, I mean, I guess I did like Leonardo DiCaprio and Titanic. I liked him, but I really liked David Borean.

Okay. I don't know who that is. Angel on Buffy. Oh, okay. And he was older, way older than me at the time. Yeah, yeah. So I was still even then attracted to like an older thing. This is where it does get tricky,

is like I trust you and your desires. Yeah. So if you want to date a 62 year old man. Yeah. Well, we've talked about this, you don't want me to. I don't want you to. Yeah. But it's interesting that,

now I have two conflicting ideas in my head, which is like, yeah, you should be able to be with a 62 year old man. And then kind of the inverse of that is like, I have to be able to not be judgmental of the 62 year old man that's with you. Right, but you are. And I get it.

Although there is a threshold, but I bet it's kind of just cause I'm 50. So to me, a threshold is around 35. Yeah, God, that's so sad, but true. Like I passed it. I don't mind a 50 year old dating a 35 year old. No, me either. I don't mind a 60 year old dating a 35 year old.

I know we're a little different on this page. Ted. And again, I don't give a fuck. I just have questions. Well, I don't give a fuck. I just have questions. Well, I don't have that many questions. It's like, if the 60 year old is finally at the point in his life where he is ready to Have some fun and travel.

Settle down. I mean, there is something about feeling, being with a young person that makes you Energizes you. feel youthful and energized and not like your age. But also I think a 60 year, some of these six year old men who are hot, like have had all these women coming in and out

of their life, they liked that. And now they're like, oh no, like I do wish I had someone to watch TV with, I don't. I guess I gotta go to the people who do and those are 35 year olds. Like to watch TV. Yeah, I love to watch TV. I watched all of Adolescents this weekend.

Great. Great show. Great show. Really intense, beautifully done. The acting's- Impressive, holy shit. That boy. New, brand new. Brand new.

Talk about, for people who haven't seen it, we have mentioned it before, but all of it is in very long takes. I don't know if they bridged some together or not. They might've, but it's sold as a one. They apparently didn't. So for people who don't know, although I do think we said it, but just in case, it's the story of a boy who's accused of murdering a 13 year old boy who's accused of murdering

a girl that age. Yes. And it's four episodes, they're hour longs, they're oners. And it's really heartbreaking, it's intense, but like intense in the reality of life. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. I certainly don't want to re-debate this. I certainly don't want to re-debate this. I did want to just point out post our debate about men and women that we had recently. Oh, okay.

And then reading comments, I noticed there's a total lack of compassion for young men and particularly young white men. Totally get it. It's so well grounded. White men have been in power. They've had all the power and all the opportunities. So I'm asking you to feel bad for the group who's had all the power and all the opportunity and held all the wealth.

But what occurred to me, and I think it's a distinction people need to make in their mind, the 12 year old wasn't a CEO of a company. He was not the patriarchy. He did not have the power. I agree. I think we graft on the sins of previous generations under these young boys who were like 10 years old. They just arrived. They don't have any status or power or control. And you gotta make the distinction in your head if you hope to have any compassion for this group, that is by all metrics struggling.

I think anyone who's really thinking about it does recognize. And for 30 and above, go ahead and keep feeling that way. I don't mind that you think, oh, poor white men that are 30 and above. Right, but I think most people who know what's going on do have compassion. And even if you don't have compassion,

you have to have some fear and some level of like, this is a huge problem that we have to look at. It's a tinderbox. It is, it is. But I guess what's like the show depicts in I think a great way is the outside influence on a lot of these boys. It gets into incel culture, which it was funny

because I was like, I don't know so much about it. Like I don't know barely anything. They're explaining a lot of stuff that I was like, oh my God. My understanding of incel was like, it's a very fringe part of the internet where these guys who are like, I'm never gonna have sex and then they hate women.

And then I saw this clip that went around, which is incredible, is one of the very popular vlogging incel guys saying it was gay to have sex with women. I mean, that's all fucking twisted. But I didn't realize it was like super common knowledge among young people, or at least in England, if this shows to be believed.

Yeah, and there's a whole culture around it. There's emojis that mean things. And there's this like 80-20 rule where 80% of the women, it's part of like what incels say, which is I think true. On social, or rather on dating apps, yeah. Yeah, that 80% of women are interested in 20% of men, but then they take it to this level that's, so because of that, we have to hurt them.

I just think it's like the least thought out fucking thing in the world to be like, so the answer to that is like hurt them and kill them. That means then 0% of you, but that doesn't have to be. Like the reason is because a woman will be with a man who's not like that. Like it's like, it's dragging all these boys in to increase the chance that that will happen.

Well, they're, yeah, they have to figure out what the 20% on dating apps are doing and replicate it. Right. Again, because the college graduation rates are dropping and if you gotta be a college grad to get that 20%, I mean, hopefully that'll just incentivize these dudes to go to college. They gotta figure out what are the things

and go get those things so they can get those mates. Also, I would hope women will start dating laterally. If that's the real dynamic on planet Earth is that 80% of women are getting plowed by the same 20% of dudes, like that's not advantageous to them either. It's not good for women to all be fighting over 20% of the pool.

Well, I think what's really happening is that women are- Go dormant and they don't care as much. Yeah, they're like, I don't need that. Yeah. And the unfortunate reality is that's more and more true. Yeah, yeah. And I don't, I mean, I'm not saying that's good,

but it is more true that like you can- Well, yeah, you can be an independent. Yeah. And live like a happy, good life. That's the, but I would say most women- I don't think boys are as capable of- I agree. And so I think most women would prefer to be in a partnership, a good partnership, than

be alone. But also, I think what's starting to happen, obviously, I can fully attest to this, we're also not going to be in a partnership that isn't equal, like that isn't good. It's preferred to be single. I would say both are gonna suffer. Yeah. I think people should do what they've always done and form partnerships and-

That are healthy though. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's the whole issue. I don't want anyone to be in a bad relationship, but I want everyone to have a partner and- Yeah, feel fulfilled and have that companionship. And have children and keep the population. Yeah, I agree, I agree.

I just think it's getting, it's getting harder. Like it just is, it's for everyone, I think. I just think way more people are losing now than ever have. Yeah, but even- Because these 20% of dudes, you think any of them are settling down? If they have access to 80% of all women,

that's fucked for them. That's not good for them. It's certainly not good for the 80% of boys that are left out. It's not good for the 80% of women trying to go after 20% of men. I guess the only people that are maybe thriving are the 20% of women who are with the, I don't know.

I don't fucking know. It seems- I don't know, but we also like, there's also the reality at play here, even though we're saying, we're saying this 80-20 rule, but there is a real truth. We talked about it on here all the time. I see it everywhere.

That men are not that attracted to highly independent, accomplished women, most men. They're threatened by it and it's uncomfortable. I think they're all attracted to it. I think they don't know how to handle it when they get it. I also think a part of it is like, for many men, I don't know,

I think they think there's something masculine about it. Oh, well maybe for some, yeah. There's like a role reversal they don't like. They don't like the idea that the woman- Because their dad was the breadwinner and their mom was the- Exactly, so that's not attractive. I mean, I just, there's so many women I know that are single and like beautiful and thriving and real catches.

Yeah, yeah. And they cannot, and they are dating. Like they are out there, they are dating and it is not working. It's not good. I guess what's interesting to think of is I have two daughters that will date and what do I want for them?

Well, yeah. I also think knowing you, you definitely want them to be with an equal partner. Oh yeah. Yeah. They deserve that. Yeah. And they know that. I want them to be with an ambitious go-getter, protector. Exactly. Who's confident.

And we'll let them shine. Yeah. And if they don't, I'll fucking break their necks. So right there is the reason that's 20% of men. That's the whole thing. Like the expectation you have for your daughters is the reason that's 20% of men. That's the whole thing. Like the expectation you have for your daughters is the expectation at this point that most, not most, but a lot of women have for themselves.

Right? But if one of my daughters dated a dude who wasn't ambitious, who wanted to keep a really clean house and be a super involved dad. And was nice and fun. I wouldn't be like, you shouldn't be with that guy. He's not a man. I think a lot of women would be fine with that.

If they had their own thing going on. This is where we get into some weird sort of tricky. We had people write in distinct about this a lot. And there'd be like some tricky dynamics then, cause they'd come home and like in a reverse traditional situation, if it was a wife at home, a woman at home, they would be required to like keep up the house and do the grocery shopping, do this and do this.

But a lot of men now, maybe this will change. And I actually think that's gonna be the answer, right? Is- Well, anyone who grew up is watching a dad do that right now. They're on like, they're on third base. Exactly, exactly. And there's no shame around it or like, I'm not a man.

And I think, but a lot of a certain generation of men, I think my generation may be the last one, right? Where it's like, they don't wanna run a house. Right. So, and that feels emasculating and things like that. So this is where the whole like not being with an ambitious woman. Not being with an ambitious woman.

It just is tricky. Yeah. Now let me ask you, this is a dangerous one, but do you think we can bump up against the limits of our biology at some point? Like society evolves, culture evolves, but I do wonder at like what point do you bump up against the limits of our biology at some point? Like society evolves, culture evolves, but I do wonder at like what point do you bump up against? Just how much culture can override biology?

I actually think culture can override it quite a bit over a long period of time. I don't think it's fast, but I- I think if you plotted you and I in the spectrum, I think we have different inflection points of where that would be, I think. Yeah, probably. Even where this all started,

where I think the culture has seeped in enough for like you to be, you would be embarrassed to do something that we were meant to do. 25 years ago. Yes. That that's an indicator enough for me that like over time things do change and then modeling changes.

So like what your kids have seen is gonna be different than their kids, you know, it's just, it's overall gonna shift. Or highly flexible and adaptable. So maybe it'll work. That's true. Also we could see it fall off a cliff and go. We'll be dead by then I think it's all right. Okay, couple of facts, just a couple.

Hot dog DNA. Ah, tell me. Yeah, hot dog DNA. I've asked a lot of people this question that me and you had about would you rather eat someone's hair, eat their skin, or eat their, but no, eat their. Skin, hair, saliva.

Saliva, exactly. Well, the whole thing is, no, not all hot dogs contain human DNA, but a 2015 study by Clear Labs found human DNA in 2% of the hot dog and sausage samples they tested, with two thirds of those samples being vegetarian. I mean, it's really not that much. But then it just made us ask the question,

what would you rather have of those three? And I've been asking a lot of people. Oh, what's the consensus? Everyone's all over the place. Skin, saliva and hair. Those are the options. We think that's what's getting into the hot dogs. I say saliva.

Yeah, you said saliva. You'd most like, you'd most rather have saliva. You don't have to chew that. You're not gonna feel that in your mouth. It's best to not even know you had the DNA go through. Yeah, and I get, and like, I think a lot of people said saliva. You say hair.

I do, and that is controversial. No one's agreed with me. What if it's a pubic hair? No, no. Okay. So human hair. It has to be a head hair. Okay, which is probably dirtier than pubic hair. No, no. Okay. Nope. So a human hair. It has to be a head hair. Okay. Which is probably dirtier than pubic hair. No, no, I don't think so.

I don't know. Oh my God. Not an ass hair. Or arm hair? Mon's pubis hair. Arm, hit? Arm's fine. Or arm? Arm.

Arm hair's fine. I prefer that over head hair. Yeah, me too, thinner. Yeah, tiny. Much thinner. But the reason I say that, I think it's out of self-defense. It's because my hair's all over the place. And I think it's true that if you know me, you've eaten my hair.

Yeah. Like to know me means you've eaten my hair. Unquestionably. Yeah. Yeah, undoubtedly. So I don't wanna be gross. Unquestionably. Yeah. Yeah, undoubtedly. So I don't wanna be gross, so I guess I'm trying to like, I'm lobbying that hair eating's fine. What are people saying?

They're saying sly, but no? Yeah, a lot of people said, someone said skin, which was shocking to me. That's the worst. Well, fuck. I think I would say skin. No! When you're talking skin and a hot dog,

it's gonna be like flakes. No, we're talking, okay, this we got a- Not like a finger's gonna be like flakes. No, we're talking okay this Yeah, not no not the whole finger cuz we have that's gross a chunk of the skin He does make a good point that a tiny chunk of skin again would feel like the texture of the hot dog It would largely wouldn't know. Yeah, you wouldn't know. I gotta put hair last cuz you go And then you're trying to get them coming. Yeah You gotta put hair last, because you go, oh, and then you're trying to get them. It just keeps coming.

Yeah, I know. Oh! I know, nobody likes that, but the reason is we've all done it. What if it was like three feet of hair? A three foot hair. Well, this is the other thing. Often-

Do you get your hair three feet long? No, two and a half. It's really long. Yeah, congratulations. The other thing is if there is a hair in my food, which again, has always happens a lot, I am always like, it's probably mine. I immediately say to myself, it's probably mine

and then I don't look at the color and I don't think about it. And I don't have that luxury. Why? Because if I start pulling a hair that's longer than three inches out of my own, it's not mine. Well, it's not mine if it's this small. Unless it's my armpit hair,

which can get up to nine, 12 inches. See? It'd be yours. Yeah, look, I do think I'm in a rare group about hair. I can acknowledge that. That's cool. We're punk rock. OK, now the tooth brushing scene and bring it on.

Just going to play that. OK. OK, she's brushing her teeth. He's putting the paste on Colgate, I think. Now he's brushing. They're like, it's kind of like meet cutie. Do we know why they're sharing a bathroom right now? No, I forget.

Okay, he spit. Still brushing. Do you have any more volume you can give us? He spit again. Oh, wow, okay. They're spitting and re-brushing. Now, I don't do this. I do it once.

Okay, spit, spit. They're also not, they don't have toothpaste. All right, wow. Oh, I don't know, I don't trust it. Spit, spit. So it's kind of an aggressive back and forth. It's more of like a tit for tat, like a war. Anywho, well that's that.

Oh, well, thank you for those facts. You're welcome. All right, I love you. Love you. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey.