Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Jude Law

Episode Date: November 11, 2024

Jude Law (The Order, Skeleton Crew, Sherlock Holmes) is an actor. Jude joins the Armchair Expert to discuss why he feels like he cries more than he used to, how he has become an unapologetic enthusiast, and having to tap into different parts of your personality for different roles. Jude and Dax talk about him finding his confidence when he joined theater, what it’s like to work with great directors, and how important Mike Nichols was to him. Jude explains the chemistry with RDJ on set of Sherlock Holmes, what having a behavioral psychologist for a wife is like, and how traumatic it was to have his phone hacked. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Miss Monica Law. Hi. What's that?

If your name was Monica Law and you were like a DA in a town. If that was my last name, I would have no choice but to go into either law enforcement or. Prosecution. Yes, or Supreme Court. Or Supreme Court. Or physics.

There's a lot of laws in for that. Oh, sure, sure. Jude Law though is not a failure despite not going into jurisprudence. I just wanna make that very clear. He is a Tony and Academy Award nominated actor, the tale of the Mr. Ripley, the holiday Sherlock Holmes, Fantastic Beasts,

Cold Mountain, and a movie that he is truly, from the bottom of my heart, spectacular and chameleon. This happens once in a while. It certainly happened with Vice, do you remember Cheney? And you're like, you're trying to find Christian Bale in there. And you're like, is that, is he in there? Jude pulls that off in this. He's, it's such a kind of departure from what we've seen

and it's really a great movie. It's called The Order and it is out December 6th. Okay, so it's a good bit of lead time. Put that in your calendar now. Also, he has a new series coming out on 12th, 3. He has a very busy December. He has Skeleton Crew, is in the Star Wars universe on Disney+.

Busy bee. A lot of blessings he's giving us. Please enjoy Jude Law. I'm Afua Hirsch. I'm Peter Francopon. And in our podcast, Legacy, we explore the lives of some of the biggest characters in history. This season, we're talking about the life of US President JFK.

He steered the world through moments of terrifying geopolitical crisis. But was he quite the shining hero he seemed? A complex personal life, and of course, the source of countless conspiracy theories. There's so much to cover, right? What are you most looking forward to talking about? I'm really looking forward to the Cuban Missile Crisis because it's just one of the most dramatic things that's ever happened in history. I don't know, there's something about

Kennedy and as I'm growing up thinking of him as an all-American hero with good looks, I want to scratch the surface and see what's really underneath. I'm a slightly different generation. I never really understood what the big deal was. I just knew that there was a big deal. Well, I'm a different generation. I knew you were going to take it like that. I feel old, but historians love the dating process. So follow Legacy now from wherever you get your podcasts.

Or binge entire seasons early and ad-free on Wondery+. I'm Colin Murray. And I'm Menace James. And this is everything to play for, the show that takes you inside the greatest sports stories on Wander sports special. It really is a TV Gold. We'll of course be reliving their two famous fights, watched around the world by tens of millions. It is such an extraordinary rivalry and there are so many other amazing characters

who deserve their story to be told as well and we'll be discussing all of it. Follow Everything to Play for wherever you get your podcasts and enjoy our new weekly bonus episodes where we're allowed to talk about whatever we want. Because who's gonna stop us Colin? I'm a little fat P and a little frazzly kind of jet laggy slightly over emotional. Oh God! Oh we love that! That's great for us! Over emotional. You got me right at great for us. Over-emotional. You got me right at the right point.

Over-emotional is a perfect. That's our sweet spot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I start crying. Oh, let's hope, fingers crossed. You're wearing such nice pants. Have you had any tears? Oh, god, yeah.

Plenty. I've cried in here several times. But our guests too, we got a lot. I've never heard anyone cry on it. I feel like I've missed out. Yeah, we'll give you some, Anna Kendrick being number one. I just read an interview with her in an English paper and she cried twice in the article.

Ah, well she's very emotionally, it's there on the surface. Yeah. Are you jealous of that? Because I did not allow myself to cry for about 30 years and then I think with having kids and a friend went to the hospital and it started, it just comes.

But I'm like, yes, give it all to me. I really would love a full, I haven't had that yet. A, yeah, like ugly face, embarrassed. Yeah. I thought you had it when you watched one of those female docs. The Sinead O'Connor one, I was just like pouring tears. And then I do this thing again,

cause I beat it out of myself. When I start, I go, I start laughing uncontrollably. So it was a mix of laughing and crying. What's your history with crying? Good question. So there was definitely a time, and it's funny, isn't it? How it's related sometimes to being an actor. You want to be able to cry as an actor actor and then the first time if you're a kid and

you're being asked to do it it's kind of nerve-wracking and then you squeeze out a couple and you're really pleased as a person no I was always emotional but not a weeper I am now I just cry all the time what are your pleasure when I'm happy when I get just moved music film, film, my kids, of course, I can genuinely now really empathize with characters I play and I can just tune in and it can just pour out. Really? I'm on the brink of being a bit gushy.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I need a rein it in a touch. In life or in performing? Both. And I worry that that maybe is also to do with, I just feel like I've been tired for two years. Yeah, I was looking at your slate of things we're here to talk about.

I don't know how you made them, but there's no way we can even get through all the shit that's coming out. I mean, there's three big, big, big projects all landing around the same time. A couple of them were very small when I made them. They had big ambition and they're being received in such a generous way that now I'm like, oh, it's gonna be a busy year.

Yeah, but the smaller ones, it can be more draining. Yes, well, less time, less money, because they're small, they're usually high content of cerebral demand. Yeah, in the morning you're crying, in the evening you're kicking someone's ass, and then you're making love at lunch. You're like, fuck, I've done everything a human can do in 10 hours because we're shooting French. someone's ass and then you're making love at lunch. You're like, fuck, I've done everything a human can do

in 10 hours because we're shooting French. And we have 22 days and if we get bad weather, we're fucked. So you have the anxiety of it all. I just did a film with Ron Howard. We had a very tight budget and tight schedule. And he said the funniest thing, he said his plan B was shoot faster.

That was all he was like, there was no cover. Just go, go, go. And that's Ron Howard. That was Ron. Well like. There was no cover. Just go, go, go. And that's Ron Howard. That was Ron. Well that movie, fuck it, we're right here. That is also a very un-Ron Howard movie. Yes it is. It's Ron in that well-deserved chapter of his life

doing exactly what he wants to do. It's a project he was curious about for I think nearly 15 years. And it was a tricky one to get made. And it's like a modern Lord of the Flies-ish. It's set in the 30s actually, it's a true story about a group of idealists led by this very eccentric doctor that I played. This guy saw the rise of fascism coming and wanted to get away. He was an obsessed Nietzsche fan. And so he bought a little piece

of land on the Galapagos and moved there and lived literally like Adam and Eve for three years with his girlfriend, made everything by hand, caught rainwater to drink by, grew crops, meditated. And then he wrote these articles about his life, sent them back and they got published and he became, unbeknownst to him, kind of a bit of a celebrity. And suddenly all these acolytes turned up. Because the last thing he wanted was anyone to be there. So suddenly his family arrived and then this bizarre woman arrived who claimed to be a Baroness who wanted to take over the island. They ended up killing each other. So it's real?

Yeah. That story is true. All the characters are real. Oh my God. This is how extreme the personalities are. Ritter, who I play, extracted all his own teeth before he left because he didn't want any dental issues and wore metal dentures to eat with. So I have these metal teeth. And he was a nudist, so he's sort of strolling around butt naked most of the time.

With bionic teeth? Right, with bionic teeth. Oh my god. I mean, the characters in it are larger than life and highly unlikable for most of it. I found thrilling. It looks awesome, but it also doesn't look like any previous Ron Howard movie at all. But it looks fantastic. People are loving that one, right?

We debuted at TIFF. I think it's divisive. I think it's a challenging piece. I think it's not a spoon feeder. The characters are unusual. What they do to each other is pretty dark, But there's a really pure message in it. There are these three camps in the end. One is very much led by the head,

one by the balls, and one by the heart. And it's very much about where and what we need to do to survive today. That's really what's at the heart of it. What do we need to listen to in ourselves to survive this crazy world? Yeah. Okay, now back to your crying.

Do you have a couple, I'll just start. So I have two that are gonna guarantee set me off. One is when people are incredibly earnest in the face of how hard it is to be earnest. The Olympians were flying to the Olympics, some team, and they decided to reenact the video for call me crazy, but here's my number. So call me baby.

And they had choreographed it on the plane and the cameras moving, everyone jumps out of their seat and they're singing. It's just a group dance. Yes, group dancing. Group dancing, this wedding proposal that was very much like that. I'm like, you know, there's so many assholes in the world

that wanna fucking beat you down for expressing that exact kind of thing. And when I see people be brave enough to just do it anyways, I start crying. I'm like, that is so sweet that in this mean ass world, you still sing, call me crazy. Yeah, yeah. And there's an unapologetic joy and innocence actually. It's people just going I'm having fun not the sort of cynical yeah but am I cool? I get that absolutely.

Hey how well do you understand American schools and how much were the English schools like it? My junior high you just got fucking beat down if you showed any earnestness or you declared you liked something. Oh same in the UK. Okay. I thought that was a very British thing. Enthusiasm, no way. Yes. I mean, to be passionate and kind of get it all over excited and people then be looking at you going calm down. You were emasculated by liking something.

That's right. That's very familiar to my experience of growing up actually, because I am an enthusiast, I've realized and unapologetically so the older I get, I love allowing my enthusiasm to burst forth and sharing it, and I love seeing it in my kids. I love it when they get overexcited about stuff. But it is interesting looking back over childhood. Do you have any daughters that are consuming Taylor Swift in front of you?

Actually, I do. She said to me just the other day, she was number one. I urge you to watch the era's movie with her. And experience it. I took my 11-year-. I urge you to watch the era's movie with her. And experience it. Yeah, I took my 11 year old to the theater to watch it and about six minutes in I stopped watching the movie and just stared at her in profile and wept the whole time. What is that zeitgeist that she's plugged into?

It's very interesting, isn't it? Because I think I'm right in saying it's not planned. She's not manipulated it. It's very authentic and real. She's just so relatable to all eras of women and ages of women. As you said, it's not manufactured. But she is a brilliant business person.

They can coexist, right? Absolutely. Authenticity and then just being able to see it as a business and monetize it. Yeah, Pulp Fiction was still a hit, totally. And it's still a genius and it's pure. It's just, she knows, oh, this is how I connect. And she likes to, she talks to people,

she holds these singing events for big fans. Like she really is connected and people feel very seen. I have seen the movie with my daughter and I went and saw her live. And so my conclusion, I think there's three things. One is she isn't Beyonce. Beyonce is this creature that fell out of the sky and she looks like that and she dances like that and most people can't ever imagine themselves being that.

So there's this kind of, wow, so how did she get there? Well, she got there through her gumption and hard work and her skills as a writer and her dedication. I could do that. I could be a star. That's I think a big part of the appeal. And then she might be the only true matriarchy that we can observe, that a little girl can observe, which is it's her fucking world.

She's got the biggest tour in the world. She makes the rules. That's a fucking woman in total charge of everything. She's like her own one woman matriarchy. And I think that's really powerful. And she's not abusing it either. No. Yet.

Yeah. We're just in the foothills of this world domination. There'll be a hot pool boy at some point. Do you reckon it's linked also to something you just mentioned, which is the Olympic team performing in an unabashed way. There's also something uncool, weirdly, because of course she's ultimately cool,

but there's also something uncool about her. I couldn't agree more. Which makes her incredibly cool. It's like, I'm having fun and I'm doing what I wanna do. It's not considered to the element of like, hmm, is this gonna be seen as being overly considered? I think it's just very different than the other pop stars they were given,

which are largely you either hit the genetic lottery or you didn't. I think that's very special. Yeah. What thing are your kids into that you've joined them in and kind of got wrapped up in? Cause for me, it's this swift thing. Like I went, I get it, I'm in.

Well, my two little ones, Bluey. Bluey, I'm hearing that. I weep at Bluey, I love Bluey. You do. Tell me what happens in Bluey. That came right after my kids left that space. Nine and 11. Yeah, so at an age where suddenly,

actually that is for little ones and they're not quite old enough to realize actually they can indulge themselves like a 50 year old guy. Right, but you're the second adult I've heard say they love Bluey. Bluey is at its heart, it's about families playing together and enjoying each other's company and making time for each other and coming up with crazy make believe games.

And then there's occasionally little morals at the end of it. The kids teach the parents something or the parents teach the kids something or some kind of equation within that. It's got really good humor and great heart and it's made in Australia and it's about an Aussie family of dogs. And it's got this beautiful Aussie grounded earthiness and humanity. And they embrace the dad, bandit, wonderfully. He's not an idiot. You know, it's interesting if you look at quite a few of those kids shows, even Simpsons early on and Pepper, the dad's a bit of an idiot. And in this one, Bandit, they laugh at him. And he is kind of smelly old dad, which, you know, is familiar to me, but he's right in the middle of the play and right in the middle of kind

of being a bit of a hero too. So it's got beautiful heart. They know the parents are watching and they know that parents need to be entertained too because kids are gonna wanna watch this every day if they're allowed. Those are such blessings when you can enjoy it. Yeah, so Bluey wrapped us up pretty tight as a little troupe.

I'm gonna give it a viewing. I wanna see. It's well worth it. Oh my God. It's well worth it. I bet I'll cry. If I walk in and you're like just on your own watching the movie.

That's me. That's me. Okay, so if England is like the US in smacking down earnestness, you start acting at 14? Kinda. Cause people ask me like, did you know, I'm like, I stayed so far away from that drama department.

I didn't want to get beat up by six guys. I was doing it out of school. It was more to do with my family. So my parents were teachers, but they were keen members of a local theater company. They were putting on plays, and my house was always full of people kind of rehearsing. And then I got involved as a kid,

and my sister got involved as a kid, and it was just something we did. So to me, it was this language that just felt very familiar and safe and fun. And I loved watching adults goofing around and you were aware like oh adults play as well they can be silly and it made them really human and magical in a weird way because it felt like play. I said magical I suppose in that sort of Peter Pan type way that it just felt like oh you don't have to necessarily grow up with earnestness

or with some kind of sobriety it could be goofy but I left school at 17, two acts. So at school, school, I kept to myself. I was usually hiding under the stairs so I didn't get beat up. For real? Oh yeah, for real. That's where I had my lunch. Okay, hold on a second. Were you, we've had this in the past.

You've had one or two of you. It's not in the way you said it was like, it's okay, you're safe here. I feel like the appetizer just arrived and it smells delicious. We've had some heartthrobs on that didn't necessarily identify with that when they were younger,

and that's a very fascinating thing. I get it. I look back now, I was very pretty. I was called Jude. I wanted to be an actor, and I was also pretty cocky. I fancied myself a bit, but you can't fight the whole school. So after a while you realize it's probably better

to stay out of the way, especially when you're like 14 and the 18 year olds kind of just want you to shut the fuck up. Also, when I was young and older girls like me, those older boys wanted to fucking kill me. Older girls fancying this weird little kid, they don't get that. What's funny is what they like about you

is that you're kind of artsy. So the solution to the other boys their age is like, I'm gonna beat the shit out of them, show the opposite quality that she just told me she likes. That's right. I just squash him out of here. With my manhood. Under the stairs.

It's taken me a while to remember that. And I was talking about it, I think, to one of my kids. And suddenly I remembered sitting under the stairs. And I had my friends with me, a couple of buddies who would come sit with me under the stairs, but it was just a lot easier. There's a funny thing about that relationship with the opposite sex at that age, because it's so uncharted. You don't really know what you're getting into. All the stimulation that you're getting is firing, but you don't necessarily know what it's leading to.

Yeah. I'm talking pre-sex, obviously. That moment where you're getting something back, but you don't necessarily know what it's leading to. Yeah. I'm talking pre-sex, obviously. That moment where you're getting something back, so that's good. What you're talking about is bringing something out of you. You can't even at that age necessarily say, I'm good at this, or this is what I'm going to be, or this is why people like, you know what I mean? It's all just happening.

You're suddenly alive. I found that girls were such a refuge from the boyness. I'm with dudes all the time and I'm jumping my bicycle and I have to fight this other kid. And then I talk to these girls and I could just be this whole other side of myself. And I love that side of myself. I have a fantastic big sister who was so generous with me.

Natasha. Yeah, she's a painter and she's just an awesome human being. But I look back now, I can't believe how generous she was with me and she'd take me out with her girlfriends, take me to their parties and that was a taste of what you're talking about and a really influential mother too who was loving but you're so right and really looking back and discussing it like this so sad that there are

these poor guys who had no idea that that side of themselves existed or weren't allowed to show it or had any interest perhaps in investigating it. Just wanted to be the girl. Because I like that too. I was good at sport. I didn't mind a fight. I liked getting my head bust, falling off things. But I love this other side too. And that to me made me good and whole.

You were cute. You had an older sister. That's the biggest hack any boy can have is to have an older sister. Every boy I knew with an older sister did just fine. Interesting. But think of all these boys that weren't confident or they weren't good looking. It wasn't even an option for them.

That's heartbreaking. They go home and their dad is like, don't do that. One male to the next just passes it on. That's right. Don't show that, you're weak. Yeah, don't let anyone see that. Don't let anyone see that. Put that doll away.

And then yeah, it just continues on and on until someone breaks that cycle. Yeah. Breaking the cycle, that's a big part of my family because my parents were both adopted. Both. Both were adopted. My dad actually literally is like something out of Charles Dickens, his childhood. And he had every excuse to be a total nightmare of a father because it was in his background,

his life was one of being left behind, of being abandoned and sort of having nothing. He just turned out to be the most incredible dad. Completely loved the family, devoted to it to the point actually where it was like, let me go. My mom too. I bring up my parents a lot because I get really pissed off when people say, oh, well, this is what happened to their parents. It's a psych. I'm like, you know what? That's a fucking excuse.

You can always better yourself. You can always replace something or don't have to repeat something. I looked at him, he had it so tough. He had nothing and he totally turned it around. But it also makes sense if he didn't have that built-in family, that he would have cherished the one he built and not take it for granted because he didn't have it. And he family, that he would have cherished the one he built and

not take it for granted because he didn't have it. And he was the youngest schoolmaster in London? Yeah, something like that at the time. Now head teachers in the UK are very different to principals. They are still very much part of the teaching team and part of the ethos of the education environment and create more of the atmosphere of the school. And he was a very hands-on teacher teacher and that was in the 70s he worked in a inner-city school in an area of London where there's big black community and he would just be like

Who wants to go camping this weekend and kids would just meet he'd take me to and we just drive out of the city and go Camping eight kids ten kids that can't happen now. They know it is like you need all the documentation I hate to say it. I'm not letting my male teacher take it. No, no, sure. Your dad was a good guy. He did it with my mom. I mean, they went as a couple. If they were both teachers, how did they feel about you dropping out of school? Well, they were passionate about theater and passionate about performance.

So they knew that I was. And when the opportunity arose, the one conversation I remember us having was, look, if it doesn't work, will you go back? And I was like, of course. Did you leave for the soap opera? Yeah, you done your homework. Listen to me. One of my favorite things to talk to actors about

is actors who have been on soap operas. Because, at least in America, they shoot like 100 pages a day. It seems like the most insane experience. If you think about it, what a great place to learn. Fuck yes. I had done a bit of theater. I wanted to act.

Someone saw something in me, asked me to audition for this thing. I auditioned, I got it. Next thing, as exactly as you point out, I'm in this machine. It's churning out, demanding I know what the hell is going on. I don't know what a mark is. Find your light. What are you talking about? And learn the lines and deliver. Do they have the same crazy schedule in England

as they have here? Oh yeah. And do they pay you okay? Were you like 17 going like, I'm fucking rich. We didn't have a lot, you know, we were never wanting as kids, but we didn't like, you know, have much money coming in teacher parents.

I couldn't believe it. Yeah, what were you doing with all that green and 70s spending? Did you spend any of it? Blowing it. Clothes or do you buy a cool car? No, I didn't believe it. You know, what were you doing with all that green and 70s Ben? Blowing it. Clothes or do you buy a cool car? No, I didn't drive for a while. A lot of records, clothes, just going out. Oh yeah.

Bringing friends. Oh yeah, with friends. Probably never got better. Oh my goodness. I was 17 living in Manchester in 1988. The Hacienda was down the road. There was the rise of stoneoses and the Happy Mondays. And it was a lot of fun.

Suck it under the stairwell. Oh yeah. It came very far. Even then, you could have ended your career then and it would have just still. I ran from the stairwell. So you were in Manchester making it. So you had your own flat, I presume?

I did. I mean, can you imagine? And that they were paying for, you know, they paid my rent. Oh my Lord. Amazing. This is fun to talk about this. What's nice is with enough time passed,

you look back and go, damn. Yeah. And you wanna run from it, right? I came out on a show called Punk'd, which was a reality show. And I didn't want anyone to bring that up for like 10 years. Isn't it funny? Cause it sits too close.

It's like looking at photos of yourself when you're a kid and you're only just turned like 15, you kind of go, I'm an adult now. I don't look like that anymore. I'm a big boy now. Yeah. It was a very formative time. And I love that you bring up the actual technical demands.

They're a big part of what you're learning from. I went from that back to theater. I learned so much from that job. Yeah, you probably shot more hours. Yes, it is. Yeah. Looks like beer, but it is water. It looks like a beer.

Yeah, it sure does. We can get one of those for you too, if you want. Really get you crying. Yeah. Nine or 10 of a million. I'm cheering up now. I'm not gonna cry, I'm afraid. You're cheering me up too much.

Oh man, Dax. But if you added it up in two years, you probably did more content than you did for the next eight years doing features. It's true, I did it for a good few years. Yeah, you probably did several hundred hours of acting. Oh my God. And how was your ego then?

Were you floating? Were you insufferable? Yeah, I think most people would have been at that age. Yeah, 17 with your own apartment. Going to the pub and you're fucking buying rounds. Yeah. That's a really good question. And I'll be absolutely honest when I've not kind of thought about.

Oddly, actually I think I would be right in saying that my ego was probably a little more out of control before I got that job. And I was a member of like the Youth Theatre Company. When I got into the theater and doing all this stuff as a kid, I felt so confident that I'd found my place and fitted in, and it was so different to that experience of school,

that suddenly I was like, I could fly. I knew I was pretty good at it. Yeah. I knew I was good and that I was getting good parts, and I was getting good response, but I wasn't in the professional domain. Once I stepped into that and there were adults suddenly in this show and there were people who had huge experience, I was always quick to sit back

and be very happy to learn and watch. Having said that, I have a very clear memory of one of the women in it who was slightly older than me, just by a few years, but I remember telling me to cool my boots. Oh, wow. But she was probably just nagging you because she liked you.

Yeah, probably. That's my guess in retrospect.. But she was probably just nagging you because she liked you. Yeah, probably. That's my guess in retrospect. I think she was probably right. But if it was like Cate Blanchett. You just go, okay, yes, Cate, sorry. Well, you basically just described, you were like a star college athlete and then you got to the NBA and you're like,

I need to recalculate just a bit. I'm gonna have to learn a bit. It's interesting too, isn't it, when you're a kid in an adult world, but you're being paid. So you're being treated like an adult, as you should be. I gotta really step up here, behave like an adult, fit in like an adult, watch and learn.

Yeah, they're not taking it easy on anyone. Not with that kind of schedule. They don't have time. No. No, even if they wanted to. I remember being late once. I think it's like the only time I've ever been late because I could just tell it was not done. And that's never happened again.

Okay, so you leave that and then you get yourself in a play that ends up in the West End and then ultimately Broadway with a different title and a little bit of reworking. You have a couple kind of breakthroughs and that play is certainly, yeah. You win a Laurence Olivier Award at some point. Something like that. No, a newcomer award. That was a game changer. I'd done a bunch of theatre leading up to that in these wonderful,

what we call off West End, like off Broadway theatre houses around London. Most of them tended to be above pubs, but very famous theatres. The Gate, the Royal Court Upstairs and several others. That was a place I really learned my chops. I mean, that was doing proper theater with fantastic directors and actors around me and the discipline of theater, which is so much an actor's medium, learning how to turn up every night and deliver it and really fill the room. And that led to Les Parans terribles, which I did at the National Theater. Yeah, and then it became into- In discretion.

In discretion. They thought that the Broadway audience wouldn't understand Les parents terribles, so they called it indiscretion. Stupid Americans. It might've been right. Because when I read the title of it this morning, I was like, I don't know what the fuck that means,

but I know what it is. Oh, I said they should've just called it The Terrible Parents. Yeah, there we go. I could've got on board with that. But then you go and you do it on Broadway and there's some great people in that cast, right? Yeah, they recast and asked me to join the cast.

Were you the only person who went over? Yeah, that was a little awkward. Yeah, did you feel like survivor's guilt from that? I did. Only in front of the ones that I was leaving behind. Yeah, sure. No, no. Then when you met these other folks here,

like thank fucking God they replaced. It was an amazing experience actually doing it again, because you know a piece and it's sort of in your system, and then you get to re-rehearse it, but rediscover it with a whole new group of people. I have never noticed this about you in the past, but now that we're sitting face to face, you have the exact same eyes as Joaquin.

Really? Has anyone ever told you that? No. Fuck, it's driving me wild. That's crazy. It's very fun. That's interesting. Yeah.

That's exciting. I don't really know Joaquin. I've met him a couple of times years ago. I don't really know him, know him. I'm surprised you guys haven't worked together. Yeah, that would be. There's not a flame retardant enough lens to capture them both in a two shot without the thing fucking exploding, that's why.

Although, he's been in the movie with my boyfriend. Oh, we're gonna get to that. We're gonna get there, I hope. His big breakthrough. Her boyfriend's Matt Damon. You'll have to check out the bathroom at some point. Don't tell Lucy, don't tell Lucy. There's a big standee of Matt in the bathroom.

Kissing Monica on the floor. Ah, pretty good. Pretty good. A standee? Yeah. Oh yeah, should we bring it out? Yeah, let's pull him out for this interview. He won't mind.

Let's get him on the scene. You're gonna like this. I've known Monica for a long time and I've never ever seen this look on her face. Look at that. That's just fantastic. I gotta tell you. this look on her face. Look at that. That's just fantastic. I gotta tell you, he looks comfortable and he looks very happy.

I like to think so. You know what's weird? I'm wearing this skirt in that, you can't see it, but I think that's the last time I wore this skirt. Oh wow, well good for you. It's your lucky skirt. I guess so. Oh my God, I'm expecting a shot with you and Jude that's gonna rival that.

Maybe we'll get a second. It's a talented Mr. Ripley skirt. It makes me proud of you, because you buy a lot of clothes and I worry you're not wearing the ones you've already bought. And this demonstrates that you, That's a fair worry.

Once every five years do that. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. When did it start? What was the performance and why? You know, you know. Good Will Hunting.

Oh, I wish I wanted to guess. It was what? Good Will Hunting, oh yeah you know, you know, I wish it was what? Yes, and I watched it fair do so many times VHS I just watched it and rewound it and wash it and rewound it and I could like watch it in my head I had seen it so much in school She would be in class and just watch the movie from beginning kind of like just glaze over and just watch it on the inside On the inside of my highlights There's a connection between that character and a little bit of what we're talking about,

or have been, isn't there? The guy breaking the mold, the guy who could end up on one path and actually needs to rewire and he makes his own path. Also, my conclusion, I have a theory on everything as you'll learn. That was one of my favorite movies as well. It was my girlfriend of nine years

and I, his first date was going to see that movie. So it was also special for that reason. But I left and I was like, why is that movie so powerful? I think it's cause we all think we're special and we're just waiting for someone to notice. And he was just so special and no one would notice. And he's a janitor and then finally, and I think there was some wish fulfillment

in that movie that was really sweet, which is like, I'm special too. This could happen to me in some version. I'm a genius too. And even if it's not intellectual, it's just I'm worthy of someone finally acknowledging I'm special. We all want that.

We do. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. I'm Collin Murray.. I'm Colin Murray. And I'm Ennis James. And if you thought we'd already covered the wildest sporting stories on everything to play for, well, think again. Yes, we're bringing you weekly bonus episodes where we dive into the sporting stories that really connect to at least one of us.

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I realize there's a bit of a connection there to my father's story actually. I wonder whether he's seen that recently. He was given a chance to sort of walk away from a life that would have taken him on a completely different path. He got that opportunity and he took it. Yeah, it runs deep, that film. And they wrote it. That's the part that's like, oh my God. That was the clinching.

When you saw it and you loved him, not only was this kind of movie star performance, the guy wrote it, which means he's really bright. And he went to Harvard. Yeah, and he's so funny and hot. Yeah. He's so strong, too. You see, school ties? No, is that the one he was in right Yeah. He's so strong too. You see, School Ties knows.

Is that the one he was in right before? He was in School Ties. But actually, with Talented Mr. Ripley, I know we're not there yet. We're really close though. Okay. This play he does where he gets nominated for a Tony, I can land the plane on that,

and that opens up the door to Talented Mr. Ripley. Proceed. Well, I was just gonna say, because I was so in love with him, that movie was tough for me. He's so good in it, but he's so disturbing. Yeah, creepy. And that's not who I needed him to be.

And he's gay, so he's not looking for you. That wasn't really the issue, it was more the real creepiness factor, and you were so good in it that I'm like, who do I, what's going on? Oh shit, now I kinda like my boyfriend's boyfriend. Yeah, yeah, it was too confusing. It was a lot for little old me.

But he played it with such a charming innocence. It was so interesting seeing the Andrew Scott version. Because it's like Shakespeare. Good material can be interpreted in any way. And they were just not related. I mean, it was so interesting. And Andrew found this sort of sinister psychopathy. Was that the new one?

Yeah, the one on TV. Which was great, yeah. And you're right, completely opposite. Matt almost played it like, oh, please don't make me kill you. Oh, I'm so sorry. He apologized, smiling while he's doing it. Like, oh, I'm in this jam again

and I guess I'm just gonna have to kill you. It was kind of loose and creepy. Even darker. It is. Even darker. It actually made it more belie creepy. It's even darker. It is. Darker. It actually made it more believable you would have been sucked into his whole thing

from the get-go. So does that opportunity come directly off the heels of that play? I know you were in Gattaca. Gattaca was a big turning point. I was really only doing theater and film just wasn't on my radar. I didn't really know how one got into film.

And I loved theater and I was happy in theater, so it didn't feel like it was something I was seeking out. But a couple of little films came my way in the UK that led to Gattaca, which took me to Hollywood for the first time, coming and living here and making a film and rehearsing and shooting at the studios. Did you get on with Ethan? Oh, so well. I mean, Ethan was another great teacher in a way. Generous and a great leader and enthusiastic and smart.

Talk about a guy who is chasing everything and critics be damned. I like poetry. I like music. That's right. Written two books and just a great inspiration to be around for me at that early formative time. And then I did a few of these little movies. You're also on Night of the... Oh, yeah. Clint Eastwood, Midnight did a few of these little movies. You also had Night of the... Oh yeah, Clint Eastwood, Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. Yeah. Yeah.

Which became weirdly... Yeah, it did. It did. I know. You're playing a gay lover of Kevin Spacey. Kevin Spacey, he kills me. Yeah, that's kind of weird. Moving on. Anyway, next project.

Ripley came about. Chugging along. There's no way of moving on from that, subtly. I mean, it's as crazy as you having been in a movie with Bill Cosby and it was about him fucking drugging you. I mean, that's how bonkers that is, but we'll move on. That would be a question for Kevin Spacey. Acting in a film where you're also doing it secretly, what do you do to make it so that people can see you? Bonkers that is but we'll move on that would be a question for Kevin Spacey Acting in a film where you're also doing it secretly. Whoa

Let's be clear hasn't killed anyone though that we know of allegedly allegedly Allegedly hasn't killed you don't hear that often Murdered anyone I think murdered anyway. Is that legally freeing? Yeah, you just say allegedly. Say allegedly to any of them. Yeah, before and after any sentence, you're fine. Remember you said you liked my house

and the next time you see me I don't have it anymore. That'll answer that question. That's lovely. Whoa, that actually downsized. Well, someone made that decision for me. And I guess in a way I made it for myself. Anyways, okay, so how do you meet Mengele? I'm making a film that is being produced by his wife.

This is at the point in my career life when I'm in my early twenties, I'm just happy to be asked to work. Are you gonna pay me too? Great, I'll turn up. He was from Hong Kong, it was this weird film, kind of a vampire film really, but they never kind of named him as a vampire,

but he was sort of addicted to women's blood and you couldn't work out whether he was a psychopath. Anyway, doing this oddball film and Anthony's watching the rushes over Carolyn's shoulders and he's casting Ripley and just reaches out and says, I think you'd be great for this role. And that's how it started. And foolishly at the time, I'm thinking, I just want to be taken seriously as an actor. I've got so much to prove. I had this foolish agent at the time, I'm thinking, I just want to be taken seriously as an actor. I've got so much to prove. I had this foolish agent at the time who said, look, this is just a kind of pretty boy role. Are you sure you want to go there?

It'd be a big introduction to Hollywood, but you'll just be the kind of golden boy. And for a moment, I thought, maybe not. Maybe I shouldn't do this. Did you tell him to his face, I don't think I can do this, Anthony? I don't remember. I just remember there being a moment where he came and saw

me and we, over a period of days, because I was filming still, he would come and hang out and we would talk about it. He was pulling together this incredible cast, all of whom I knew, but they weren't household names. Cate Blanchett, had she done Elizabeth? We were all just on the cusp. Right.

Philip Seymour Hoffman. He hadn't even done Boogie Nights. He had probably done Happiness and Twister. And Hard Eight. Oh yeah, Hard Eight. Was Hard Eight PT Anderson's first film, or early film. And Gwyneth had just done Shakespeare in Love.

Wow. He was pulling together this incredible group. When you list those people in that junction, it's almost like The Outsiders. It's like every one of you. Ended up doing huge stuff. Interesting, huh? Yeah.

So of that cast, Matt was the big star. Yeah. It already sounds that you're this way. I know you do it with directors. I read enough about you. You really do aval yourself to instruction. What I've realized more and more is I'm just a very keen student.

I love learning and I hope improving at what I do. And to me, film is a director's medium and I'm in their film. So what do you want from me and how do you want to get there? I have a process, but I do a lot of that on my own. I don't then impose that on what you want from me. And to me, each experience is an opportunity to say, okay, how do we do this? How do you do this? But Matt was absolutely the lead of that movie.

And if anything, the challenge for me that I remember going through with Ant was to find the confidence to be that confident guy and have that swagger. Will you got to be the dude that the movie star Matt Damon's in love with and wants to be? That's right. Antony kept saying, I want you to glow, I want you to shine. And so finding that kind of sense of confidence, security was a challenge.

Obviously it changed my life because the film was successful and critically acclaimed, but it changed my life also because Ant taught me about unleashing certain qualities in myself that I had, I think probably locked away actually. It felt like a kind of superpower that I've been scared to handle, which is sort of just turn on the charisma chops.

Do you know what I mean? Well, do you think you were learning like, okay, you're not supposed to do this in real life, but it's permissible here. In this space, I can do all the things I've trained myself to stop doing. That's it. It's like going back to the

cocky kid who all the older girls like. Yeah, I guess it is. No, I was gonna say, it goes back to the cocky kid who all the older girls like. Yeah, I guess it is. No, I was gonna say, it goes back to the board. You rewire and you think, oh, I'm allowed to turn all that stuff on that's been shut away. And it's a similar, I suppose, when you play someone who's say very dark or sinister,

it's like opening up those chambers. You peek in there and you think, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I gotta keep a lid on that. But it's interesting, it is allowed in this environment, it's a safe environment for you to unleash. I'll say you were given two gifts. One is you have a director

who's already directed the English Patient. You know you're safe to do whatever and you'll be protected. That's not a gift a lot of young actors have from a director. No, that's so true and it's something I've learned. In a way you evaluate that at every juncture in film, because sometimes you're looking at a project

and a young director and you're thinking, well you haven't proven yourself yet, but there's something here and I know it's a risk and it could be three months just down the drain. But let's go for it. And then other times, like a Ron Howard situation where you just go, well, this is Ron Howard. This guy makes films for breakfast.

I'm gonna learn and I can really just get on with what I've gotta do, because I know I'm in great hands. And absolutely with Ant, that was the first time I was aware that was the case. Right. I have worked with a couple of decent directors before that. I think I was too young to recognize

that I was in these qualified hands in a safe environment. Yeah, I'll never forget the first time that happened to me as I was working for Mike judge, someone I idolized. And I'm like, if he tells me to stick a banana straight up my ass, then pull it out and peel it and eat it, I will do it. I actually trust his sense of comedy more than my own.

And it's a very fun feeling. It is a fun feeling. It's operating on so many levels because it's incredibly empowering that you're there anyway. You suddenly realize, oh, I really rate this person and they must rate me because here I am. And they're just telling me to do my stuff.

And that alone emboldens you and empowers you. Well, you have to buy in. At first you think, oh, this person fucked up. This person, I can do something that I probably can't. You have to buy in. I think that's what was going on in those early moments of fear that, oh, I have to be really confident. I have to step up.

Do you know who taught me a lot in that environment was Philip? Philip was so shocking to me because he was kind of rude. Yeah, he didn't have the best bedside manner, right? No. I'm someone who needs a really kind of safe, cozy atmosphere to feel like, okay, I can make a fool of myself here. I can cry. I'm safe.

He quite liked it a little prickly, or at least in the films I made with him. And what was interesting was he taught me that it's whatever it takes to get the truth, whatever it takes to make it real. I remember I had this amazing scene in Cold Mountain where it's the middle of the night, it's the night, it's like 2 a.m., it's getting cold. They've converted this whole town down in North Carolina back to the period, so there's mud all over the street. And I've got this huge 18 hand horse in one hand and a gun in the other. And the scene is I've got to move him down this street, but I've got no hands. Anthony says, action from down the end of

the road. And he just turns around and goes, I'm not moving. That's what Phillip said. So I had to kick him so hard to make the scene work. And of course it was just real. Yeah. But most people have been like, oh pretend he just looked at me like I ain't moving. And so suddenly it was like, we're gonna really do this, okay. Did you meet Ethan on that movie?

Supply, you probably never worked together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's one of my best friends. Oh, you're kidding me. He's a lovely man. There was a very fond memory of that whole experience because true to Ant, he created a real family atmosphere and we were there in Romania for many, many months because he

wanted everyone to really play the music. Jack White's in it playing guitar. The brilliant Brendan Gleeson was playing the fiddle. Ethan learnt guitar or banjo or something. So we were all hanging out playing and singing those beautifulgrass tunes, and he was a joy to be around. Yeah, special. Oh, he's heartbreaking in that film. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The scene when they shoot him stopped smiling at me. Oh, it's so sad. Your resume's insane. Yeah, it's pretty bonkers. Even just like, we're just talking about random ones, I'm like, oh yeah, that, oh yeah. What I think is unique about yours, I wonder if you agree, the great gift

of your 25 years doing this is inordinate amount of really special directors. Clint Eastwood, Soderbergh I worship, Spielberg right out of the gates. You've got to sit front row, a couple of times Scorsese. I know, crazy. Yeah, that's rare. I think even for huge movie stars,

they've had three or four of the legends, and you've really been with a lot of them. Yeah, fun. After, so after Ripley, and I already know because I've read, but your 20s, it's like you need to, I wouldn't even advise 20 year olds to not do this, but boy, you care so goddamn much, you're so certain of where you've gotta go and what you can't be in.

So how hung up out of 10 were you about being good looking in movies? Which now, both of us at 50. And so how hung up out of 10 were you about being good looking at movies? Which now at both of us at 50 Listen it was something that was also a Crutch to lean on but I realized looking back I was in my head so much and insecure but also desperately Ambitious to be recognized in an art form. I love growing up watching Sean Penn, Gary Oldman, Daniel Day-Lewis, Tim Roth, these actors who I just wanted to flex my acting muscle as much as them and show my ability to do different things and play different parts. That it just felt like this distraction and that if that's what people

were thinking or if that's all they were saying, or it's a great part, he's this beautiful guy, I just thought immediately, Christ, this is all going to fall apart if that's what people were thinking or if that's all they were saying, oh, it's a great party, he's this beautiful guy, I just thought immediately, Christ, this is all gonna fall apart if that's it, if that's the perception that is out there. It's the great comedy of life though, because it's like when you're an old man, you're like, well, fuck, if I look like Harrison Ford, I'd be Indy.

If you're you, you think this. We all got this stupid fucking story, and we gotta be someone else other than ourselves. It's comical, because it's happening to everyone. Brad Pitt's knocking his tooth out to be in Fight Club so no one thinks he's gorgeous. Yeah, grass being green. I know it's a bizarre journey.

And then the dust settles as you head into your kind of late forties, you look back and think, shit, I don't look like that anymore. Yeah. Hey, just give me a couple more chances. If I just get a little nip and tuck. Yeah, give me one more round. Yeah.

My wife will say like, I should have done a lot of nudity before. So you get past the point where you're trying to fight. You're gonna want me to get naked. I don't want to get naked. And then you can say, fuck man, I blew it. I looked hot as shit. I should have been naked in everything I did.

Okay, so the one I wanna talk to you about, because I read the biography and I don't know if you have, but the Mike Nichols biography. Oh yeah, I read it. Isn't it wonderful? What a book. And I don't really read many Hollywood books, but enough people told me.

Do you know, I had to read that because I wanted him in the room one more time. He was the most beautiful man. I remember before I worked with him, Ant actually knew him and said, you wait, you are going to hear the best stories. You're going to laugh more than you thought possible. And he was absolutely right.

This guy's warmth and humor and perspective on the world. And then add to that this boundlessly generous intellect. You know, really smart people that make you feel smart rather than make you feel stupid. They kind of bring you into their perspective and share it. And then all these crazy stories, I mean also so naughty. Like so much bad behavior. The guy was a functioning crack addict while directing. Yes, addicted to halocene and losing all his finance.

I mean he was on a wild fucking ride. He touched every cornerstone. He did it all. He did it all and would talk openly. The rehearsal process for Closer was mostly him. And I realized now what genius he was. He was just talking about his experiences and making us all like hoot with laughter

about his loves and losses and tragedies. And what he was doing was creating an environment that was totally safe and free, where when we then reenacted this pretty hardcore drama about falling in love and splitting up, we were safe. Oh my God, we laughed so much. And another thing he did after that we shot the film, a couple of years later, we'd stayed in touch

and I'd seen him a few times. And I was in a bit of a dark spot in my personal life a little bit down and I felt like work had gone a little awry and I just felt like I was in a blip. I remember he reached out to me and took me out for this incredible lunch. It's like he just fucking knew and gave me this incredible generous perspective on life and the pendulum nature of life. It swings here and then it swings back there and you just know it's going gonna swing back the NX way, just hold on.

And it was beautiful and very warm and much needed. That makes me so happy that he lived up for you to the guy I read about in the book. And I was completely ignorant on Mike Nichols other than I had seen his movies. I thought he was a movie director. I didn't know he had been a humongous comedian. Have you listened to them since?

You must go and listen to Nichols and May recordings. I haven't. You can buy the recordings of their radio shows and you must look up on YouTube. There's an acceptance speech, I think at the Emmys or something where Elaine May presents the award for mundanity and Michael jumps up, runs down and accepts this award.

But the two of them were rocket ships of intellect and humor, groundbreaking comedians. Yeah, embarrassingly, I didn't even know that he came from being a comedian. I mean, this fucking guy gets put on a boat at six years old with his little brother by himself crossing the ocean. He's got alopecia, and the fact that that dude

turned all that into everything he did. To break the gates of comedy the way he did and trample a new path and then say, I'm gonna direct films and does, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? The Graduate, Catch-22 onwards. I mean, what a talent. Oh, unbelievable.

I recommend everyone read that book, even if you're not into movies or anything like that. What a life story. To me, cause I'm an addict, to me the crack smoke is the best fucking part. Insightful you mean to who he was? Yeah, just I was a really high functioning addict myself. And I was getting A's at UCLA

and getting into the groundlings and also smoking crack on the weekends. I applaud anyone who can juggle those fucking balls. I mean, I couldn't, I had to retire at 29 from it. But I find that to be one of the most fascinating aspects of it is how much he was juggling. But equally I can fully understand and I can recognize that need for everything.

It's appetite for life, but it's also addiction, but it's how do I stop this? I want to consume it all. I want to feel it at the max until you realize it's at the detriment of health. Yeah, I want life to be an all you can eat bar. And I'm just going back up, up, up, up. I thought you were gonna say all you can eat buffet. Yeah, buffet, bar.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, they just put fried chicken out. You already eat spaghetti. I don't give a fuck. Oh, fuck it, let's go back. Yeah. Chicken legs. Oh my God, they have banana splits at this place?

I'm having that too. With toppings. I don't want to miss a thing. Do you relate on the spectrum, if Dax is a 10, which I think he is, What's at this place? I'm having that too with toppings. I don't want to miss a thing. Do you relate on the spectrum, if Dax is a 10, which I think he is, where would you land on this needing? To gobble up every night.

Yeah. I've definitely gotten better, but there was a time in my life when I was way up at sort of seven, eight. Did you ever scare yourself? Yeah. And I still do a little bit. I'm an Englishman, so I like a drink.

It's your birthright. But then you get to an age where it's like, oh, this is a young man's game. It's gotta stop. Young person's game, sorry. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, because I drink as well. She's on me.

Right, right. She's on the ladder. Yeah, I get to observe people who stuck with it. I say this a lot. I feel worse for people who can ride the line of moderation plus, because you don't have wreckage. There's really nothing you can point at to say this is taking more than it gives. But for everybody, even if you're moderate, there comes a point at an age where it actually

is taking a little more than it's giving and that's hard. You're absolutely right. And I think a lot of that is also just how long you've been doing it. You get middle-aged and you just think, yeah, I just feel so much better if I didn't. And the problem is the social reliance, the crutch it offers socially. The lubricant. Is all those more years ingrained.

The idea of going, oh, I've got to learn to go to these things sober. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You're like 50. I know. That's terrifying. I just won't go.

Or how about my big thing was vacation. I remember going with my girlfriend on vacation. I'm like, well, what in the fuck are we gonna do for seven days? I know what's supposed to happen. We go to the bar, we get a few drinks, we meet weirdos, we end up doing this. That's the key you turn.

I don't need plans. I need two Jack and diets. That's the plan. That for me was the hardest where it's like, I don't really even know what to do. I don't have a game plan to amuse myself without this. There's a pattern, isn't there, to, well, I can only talk for myself,

when it works, waiting for the time when you go, well, I'll reset then, because I'm really good at keeping fit and healthy. It's a big part of my life. I love training, I love running, I love swimming. Well, it shows. Your physique looks fantastic. Oh, thank you.

I have a note I'll get to in your new movie about your buns, but we'll earmark that. Naked, fully naked. But the reset of not having a drink because you've had a really hard day's work and you deserve, I really deserve this. The reset is not, okay, so I had a GNT last night, I still got up and I trained.

The reset is no, no, no, no, no. You would just feel so much better if you just stop. It's a leap of faith, weirdly. Yeah, I'm really closing in on that. And funny enough, I wonder whether a bit of it has been, I know you joked about my birthright as a Brit drinking, but that I've been living away from the UK for the last few years.

That's a very solid footing because I've had many dudes in AA over my last 20 years who are English. Now living here. Yes, and they go, I go home and I tell people I'm an alcoholic and they're like, that doesn't even exist in England. Conceptually, a lot of people even, what does that mean?

I remember being in Italy, there was a British kid in our hostel and I was explaining to him I'm an alcoholic. And he's like, well, what does that mean? And I go, well, you know, I'll go out and I'll drink a fifth of Jack and then I'll have a 12 pack and I'll get Coke. And he's like, yeah, I guess at home we would be proud of that.

You're telling it like you're embarrassed by that, but we would very much be proud. And you woke up the next day. Part of the culture. Yeah, yeah. I do think culturally it's much different. It's why it's such an interesting time actually. There are all these different perceptions of Gen Z

and the parents generation trying to get a handle on them. And certainly in the UK, I don't know if it's the same here, but their lack of wanting to get high. In the UK, they're always judging them. But almost they're going, oh, they're so boring. You think, maybe they're just helping. They're healthy, yeah. They're still going out and having fun.

They're just not getting wasted. Maybe they like waking up and not recounting everything they said in the conversation with so and so and thinking like, oh my fucking god, is this worthy of a call? Yes, exactly. That's a big shift they said in the conversation with so-and-so and thinking like, oh my fucking God, is this worthy of a call? Yes, exactly. That's a big shift, certainly in the UK. That's impressive.

Yeah, it's happening here too. I keep reading that it's down, which it's gotta be good. Although I hope they go fucking hard for at least a decade like I did. I'm still delighted I went hard. Well, I think it's because there is so much more emotionally regulated that they're not using substances to sort of fill the void.

They have an outlet. They can actually talk. I think you're right there. The opportunity to actually share and analyze rather than you're either sharing and analyzing while you're high or you're hiding the need to share and analyze because you're high. Well, again, that's why I like drugs. It was back to talking to girls. I sit down with you with an eight ball, I got no fear of telling you all my fears, my vulnerabilities, I'm impenetrable when I'm on coke. I'll give you the whole me, I'm not worried at all. That's what I liked about it. I liked the intimacy it could immediately give you with another male.

Sitting down with some dude you just met and you're hearing about his dad, you know the shit you talk about on coke, you're like, your dad was a firefighter and I'm so interested. Yeah, what are you talking like, your dad was a firefighter and I'm so interested. Yeah. What are you talking like, did he come home smoky? Do you remember the stuff when you did, you do?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the many business plans I hatched. You're very entrepreneurial when you're on Coke. You've got a lot of good business plans. Did you ever make promises though, like start them? Oh. Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, he said.

I've written a thousand checks my ass couldn't cash while gacked up for sure. Oh, oh, yeah Well gacked up for sure oh Fuck well why we're on this the other one I just wanted to touch in before we get into the ten new movies you have downy's a good friend of mine And so you got to do those two sherlocks together. Oh, yeah Was it a party and I've also heard from I think was a Jake Gyllenhaal was telling us that guy has a set That's pretty fucking radical. Was that the case? Yeah, I'm it was Jake Gyllenhaal was telling us that Guy has a set that's pretty fucking radical. Was that the case? Yeah, I'm sitting back smiling

because they were very, very happy experiences, those. First of all, it was an interesting time looking back because Iron Man 1 had just landed. And people forget that was the first big Marvel movie. First big Marvel movie, first big turnaround for Rob. So it wasn't like he had gone stratospheric, but it was pretty clear that the rocket ship was full of fuel.

And everyone was standing around. They were clear for take off. Cat for ten. Yeah. But you know, it was sort of happening. Yeah, it's a sweet moment you got to share with him. The sky again was open for him. Exactly.

And Guy too was sort of figuring out this step up from these really cool, he's one of those directors who it's hard to have a signature style. And you watch five minutes and you go, oh, that's Guy Ritchie movie. Right, you know it straight away. Like Wes Anderson, he has his own particular style. I'm pretty certain in saying it's the first time he's sort of been headhunted and put in charge

of a big piece with a big budget and a big movie style. And the first time I'd stepped up to something like that. So we were all sort of finding our way with all these new toys. And it really was incredibly creative. We had a script that we used as a sort of blueprint. We'd go in, we'd improvise all morning, trying stuff out. I had this big tome of,

I'd try to read most of the Holmes books and I'd made all these notes of great little quotes between the two of them. So we had this sort of Bible, we called it, where we would look for banter between them that was pure Conan Doyle. And Dione was just coming up with the craziest ideas. He's on another planet. Right, and so fast, but also brilliant

at looking at something through a smart, funny lens. You know, like, but look at it from over here. How do we put that into the scene? And then we'd edit the thing down and go shoot it. That became our pattern. It was really creative. Oh, how fun and what ownership you must feel over those movies. Absolutely. And then to get to do it again, felt like this oiled machine. It was like suddenly the engine was running and we could just accelerate again, again, again. It was a lot of fun. And one I really hoped we'd do again. I mean, there's been a lot of

conversation about whether we will with scripts that have come and gone, but at the moment, It was a lot of fun and one I really hoped we'd do again. I mean, there's been a lot of conversation about whether we will with scripts that have come and gone, but at the moment, I don't know. Oh, you must. I hope so. Yeah, you should. Also, what an easy thing to greenlight. The charisma between you two motherfuckers. Like, I might even argue you're the only person

with as big of a sparkle. Downey's such a weird little fucking unicorn. Yeah, he's cool. God, is he a special weirdo. And I'm gonna add, just to bring him back down to life, he's also a weird little fucking unicorn. God, is he a special weirdo. And I'm gonna add just to bring him back down to life, he's also a dumb ass. So he's like the most brilliant person you met. Like I'm sure he was giving the most brilliant ideas

and I bet he was hitting you with a couple of like, what the fuck are you talking about? You want crystals in this scene? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's where the genius lies. And it goes back a little bit to, we've mentioned some of the great film actors and directors already in this conversation,

but being bold and brave and brilliant enough to offer a stupid idea, you know, you throw a stupid idea in, that means you're gonna have a genius idea in three seconds. It's firing. And if you're safe and everyone goes, what, we're all doing that. And then, well, what about this?

Oh, okay. It's freedom of kind of flow thought. And again, learn a hell of a lot doing that. And then, well, what about this? Oh, okay. It's freedom of kind of flow thought. And again, learned a hell of a lot from that. Because I definitely had some of those moments where you look around, what did you say? I think there are moments in the film where I'm like, what are we doing? The whole bit in the second one with him dressed as a woman and us then fighting. I'm on top of him dressed as a woman trying to kill him. I mean, and there's moments where a woman, trying to kill him.

I mean, and there's moments where you go, wait, how did we get here? Aren't we going to Sherlock Holmes? Doil's rolling over in his grave. Are the mechanics of a Guy Ritchie movie at all laborious? Because it is visually so specific and cool. It never felt laborious. Sorry, you asked a much more specific question

because of what Jake said about his sets. Well, he told me he's got like his own grill he invented. I think I saw it in the Beckham documentary. Yes, he has. He hadn't got to that quite then. Okay. But he was always, yeah, what are we having for lunch? Let's cook our own lunch.

He was inventing at the time, a kind of plush decked out trailer that you could cook your own food on with a little wood burning stove, all of that going on. He's running like a bygone era. Beers. That's so great.

Okay, I watched The Order last night. Gosh. Couple things right out of the gates. Just delighted to see a movie like this because we haven't made one of these in a long time. This was a standard fare in the early 2000s. And more so in the late 70s and early 80s. And that was the films I grew up with

that Justin, the director, grew up with. If you think of Lumet and Freakin, early Michael Mann. A time when the genre film could also carry incredible content and substance. I've been referring to it as sort of elevated genre. That people aren't scared of genre being some sort of excuse just for thrills. That in fact you can bed in really interesting commentary. You are... I'm going to fluff your pillows now now so buckle up. You're not

unrecognizable because clearly it's you but you're unrecognizable in this very fun way. This role I'm like this is like Gene Hackman or like late Paul Newman. When you walk up your face I'm like he's a real dude. This is not a movie star. This is very Gene Hackman-y. That was the aim. I'm completely thrilled that you made those two references. Those were references that Justin and I both sort of circled around the whole time. For so many reasons. First of all, this idea of, for me as a Brit, trying to create a very particular American

man of that time. The kind of cheesy reference is Marlborough Man, but you know, that kind of lived in grisly macho, but with a really good heart. I mean, this is such a good trope. I miss it. It's like, the life is a disaster because you've dedicated it all to one thing you're good at. That's right. Well, that was exactly at the heart of what we wanted to find in him.

It's why we didn't base him on the real special agents that were in that case. Yeah, let's get a plot. Okay, great. So it's a real story. So it's based on a case that the FBI uncovered in the early 80s about this white separatist movement that was breaking out in Idaho.

And they discovered it because of a series of bank robberies. And these robberies actually amassed more money than had ever been stolen from Brinkmat at the time. It was up to nearly $4 million. Well, yeah, one of the armored car jobs was like $3 million bucks in 83. But they were using it to finance an army. And they were following a book that had been written a few years before called The Turner Diaries, this goofy, almost kids-like book, which was seven steps to taking over the country. And they got to number five.

It's still the Bible of white nationalists. I watched docs as recently as last year where that's still the Bible of the white nationalists. But it's this kind of kids book. It's really odd. It's not got great content or gravitas to it. So Bob Matthews was the leader of this group that called themselves the order or the silent brotherhood.

Nick Holt plays him. Love him. He's still my beating vagina. I mean, he is this goddamn sexy. I do love him. What a brave actor to take on that role. He had to go to pretty dark places, I felt for him, because he found a humanity in this guy, but he was sort of unrelenting in commitment.

It was a remarkable performance. I agree. So that's a real guy. There were a couple of special agents that bust this case, one in particular who's written several books about it. And it was just important that we use this character in the film and add to his vulnerability, add to his personal life to really make sure

that the story and his role in the story hit home. And so to sort of hang that or invent that on the back of a real agent just felt wrong. So we sort of amalgamated him and invented him ourself. And going back to your point, we constructed him in such a way that there's this sense of this lost family, this incredible career that he's physically in ruin

and kind of falling apart, smoking too much, drinking too much, he's taking pills to thin his blood, and he's no bleeding. His fucking nose is gushing blood at inoperative moments. smoking too much, drinking too much, he's taking pills to thin his blood, and he's no bleeding. Gushing blood at inoperative moments. And I like the idea that a lot of us felt like the big fight was behind us, and in fact, it's kind of in front of us.

It's becoming more and more apparent globally. I wanted him to be us in that sense, that he thinks he's done his job, and he's going there to fish and hunt and chill out, and suddenly this army is in front of him, and he's on own and he's got to take him on and you the audience are thinking is he going to survive the afternoon? He's falling apart. And there's also this interesting mirror of giving everything up, devoting everything to a cause and what the cost of that is that things do cost in life.

The bill comes due. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. Justin Cazelle directed it. We couldn't have found a better director. He was so suited to the material and handled it with such consideration. And Lent on the genre aspect created this real edge of your seat cat and mouse thriller. But all the work and the emphasis certainly on the set was always about character and authenticity and background. And so at the end, I don't want to give too much away, but he kind of does get his man, he doesn't get his man. And so there's this suggestion of the hunt continuing, which I just thought was so elegantly

conducted by him as a director, that sort of open ending with just the breathing of husk back out in the wilderness. And I felt like it lent itself beautifully to exactly as you said, the fact that this book is still being looked at by separatist groups and urban terrorists as a bible. Were you in Coeur d'Alene? No, we shot it actually in Calgary. Oh you did? Because I think that's still alive in Coeur d'Alene. Oh sure.

That group? Yeah, like I think that's still a real hotbed of white nationalism. And I would have been a little nervous making that movie. Actually going there, no indeed. This is the scary thing. Obviously it's a piece of American history, but it's a global problem. Oh I just watched a front line on this thing called the Deutschland. Oh Christ. Deutschland something. They've gotten some officials elected. It's thriving on the millions. It's very fucking

scary. I have belief that what galvanizes these individuals, it's sort of going on at the moment around us. It can sometimes be a single voice that gives them an excuse to suddenly be public about it. Someone in the agency said to me, the reason that got so far was because of Bob Matthews. He was a sort of once in a generation voice and he somehow managed to speak to them all. And as soon as he disappeared,

they all disappeared into their little holes and they shut up. And I have a faith if people vote right this year, a lot of those people, their voices will disappear too. Yeah. There's so many forces at work. This current rise of this Deutschland, I wish I could remember the name of the party. It coincides perfectly with them deciding they were going to be a home for refugees, which is beautiful in a commitment at that time by maybe Markle

saying we have this pass and here's one of the ways we're gonna atone for it. She was extraordinary. She really led the way with the refugees. Yeah, that's like a force that happens. And then now this breeze oxygen into this other thing. And then yeah, charismatic leader pops up and rides on the fumes of all this other stuff that's going on. I thought what Justin did very well in the film was-

Really quick, how did you find him? Cause he's gonna direct the couple episodes of the Bateman show. So he's an Aussie? He's an Aussie. My company had a great relationship with Zach Bailen, who's a wonderful writer. He wrote King Richard and Creed and Marley.

He's a great run and gave the script to my partner, Ben. And we just wanted to get it made. We couldn't believe this story hadn't been told. We couldn't believe that he'd packaged this message within a genre. And it was just a beautiful piece. So we loved Justin's work from Snowtown and Nitram and Macbeth and he'd done some amazing work on film and just seemed so suited to it. He's an awesome guy. He brings incredible heart and ferocity and energy to films that he works on. And we got on very,

very well. I hope to do many, many more projects with him. I intend to, and I hope to. But yeah, he also stepped in and shot the last two episodes of the show that I just shot with Jason. Are you guys done? Yeah, we finished two weeks ago. Okay, we interviewed him three days before he left. To go start.

To go start with his big beard. Oh my God. He looked insane, yeah. And then I saw him this summer. Do you know what I find insane? Now I've seen him without it because he's been my big brother, Vince. And then I saw him this summer. Do you know what I find insane? Now I've seen him without it because he's been my big brother, Vince.

And big brother Vince had this hair and his beard and suddenly he shaved it all off for a flashback we have later in the show. And I was like, who the hell are you? You're Jason Bateman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where's my brother? Yeah.

It's such a great part for him. He's playing a recovering addict who has this nefarious past who kind of blows the lid off everything he goes near. You know, in the wrong hands, it could have been that kind of character where everyone goes, why does anyone give this guy time a day? He's a walking car wreck.

It's Jason Bayne. Yeah, you love him. So you fucking love him, you can't resist him. I know. And the charm and the humor. You just suddenly go, I forgive you. Do it again. In fact, nobody does shitty like he does.

Yes. He is the very best. There's like just a few handful that can pull off unlikable so well. And by the way, the first time I've worked with someone who is directing and acting, that is a juggling act. That is a skill set.

He's directing the show. He directed the first two. He's doing what he did on Mozart. That's right. You've not wanted to direct? I would love to, but I really enjoy the producing side. I really enjoy bringing folk together and ideas to life. Directing requires so much work. I will, I hope, one day. You have something with Monica's new

favorite. Was it writer or director that wrote, what's your threesome movie you love so much? Challengers. Challengers. Oh, yeah. That was such a good movie. Who are you working with now? Justin Karitskes, the writer. I'm working with him on something based on the 1968 debates between Gore Vidal and Buckley Jr. That's a great doc. That's one of my favorite docs. Best of Enemies.

Yeah. That's what we were inspired by. Wow, that'll be awesome. Have you seen that, Monica? No. It's an incredible documentary. It's also very interesting in today's times to watch that, because you have two people that are polar opposites,

and they're both brilliant. And just to watch them go at it, and the way they could go at it, and how entertaining that was, and yet it wasn't like file into this camp and declare yourself this. It was like fun discourse. At the highest level of insight and wit,

but my goodness, the respect for each other just slowly, well slowly disintegrates in real time. Ooh. Yeah. That's fun. Okay, so Black Rabbit's the show with Bateman, right? Yeah. That's on Netflix, that's coming?

It'll be next year on Netflix, yes. And then the third thing is a Star Wars project called Skeleton Crew. The Order and Skeleton Crew come out with three days of one another. That's right. The Order will be in cinemas from December 6th and Skeleton Crew is on that week on Disney+.

This is just my own selfish curiosity. When you did Peter Pan and Wendy, was that supposed to come out theatrically or do you always know it was gonna be a Straner? I assumed it was gonna come out theatrically. And it shot in such a way. I mean, this is David Lowry He's a real filmmaker and the scale of the thing was just magnificent and I was lucky enough to see it in the cinema when They screened it for me. I don't know what went on there was one of those many Unanswered questions that people seem to be posed at the moment about streamers making movies for I don't know

I assumed that Disney had enough confidence that every holiday, every parent wants to go to the movies with their kids, right? And if it's Peter Pan and Wendy, you're gonna all go. You're gonna watch it on Disney Plus 2. I've never quite understood why one would stop the other. But a lot of actors got fucked. There was like a two-year window

where people were signing up for big movies and presumably they had box office bonuses or they had participation and success. And then they were like, well, guess what? That's completely off the table. None of them really stepped up and said, here's the money you would have normally made. No. To me, it's more about the responsibility also of the bigger companies who Disney are

a tent pole organization that people will go to the cinemas to see that. It's not like it's an odd arty film. It's a Disney movie. And like I said, I mean, if that comes out on the holiday, everyone with a child and everyone who's a Disney fan will go see it and go support it. Yeah, they have to. They have to fill up those days with the kids.

Yes. Believe you me. Let's go twice. That's the scariest time of the year, the week between Christmas and New Year's. I'll tell you what I did, Jude. Two Christmases ago, we go hard for Christmas. We go hard for everything.

You just saw my yard. There's skeletons everywhere. We go hard. Preping for Halloween. And the problem with going really hard is we went hard all of December two years ago, and then we get to the big day and it's Christmas, we unwrap our presents, and I go,

hoo, I can feel everyone's dopamine leave. There's nothing more to look forward to. And I go, my God, we've got 10 more days together. How do we do this? And it's all downhill. So two years ago, I said, new family rule. Every year on Christmas, the second we finish opening the presents,

we get on an airplane and we go somewhere. And we did that last year, and by God, it worked. And it's a great day to travel, no one's fucking there. It's a great idea. I do it because in the UK the weather is so awful. My wife loves Christmas, wants to be near the family. I do too, I just don't, I do too. I love them but you gotta keep everyone busy.

Gotta keep everyone busy, and I always find the role of dad is usually unpacking and packing things. So I'm also suddenly going, why am I filling the car up? I don't know why I'm emptying the car. I don't know why I'm filling the car back up and stuff. And now I'm emptying. Like, this is a lot of time out here. Do we need all this fucking shit to go out all these places?

I know. We've got to carry all the presents out to Auntie Julie's house. You know, OK. But because of the weather, getting out of the UK on Boxing Day is a must. Go find some warm weather. Yeah, let's get the fuck out of here.

Ooh, this just reminded me. I have a question. What is the movie, because as we've discussed, you've done so many incredible ones. I have a guess as to the one that gets brought up the most to you on the street. Is it The Holiday? It was Christmas themed. I like the segue there. I mean, I just remembered it because of that. It's a remarkable thing. I had a feeling making that.

Nancy Myers, the director, has a really forensic sharp eye for creating those cute, sweet, but not saccharine movies. They satisfy from the aesthetic to the dialogue. There's just enough humor. There's a little romance. They're smart, but she goes about them with a real attention to detail. So you hope it's gonna be a success when it opens. You do not think it's gonna become a store work.

For decades and decades. For decades, a Christmas kind of routine. Yes, it's in my routine, I watch it every Christmas. I still love it. Is Monica right? That's the one people. It's so popular. And they make it part of their Christmas.

It's a lovely thing. Yeah, you gotta learn to be grateful for, hell yeah. Yeah, all the little things. Totally. Yeah, when you're part of the fabric of someone's holiday. That's lovely. My one big issue with it was the name Graham. And I apologize to everyone called Graham out there.

But in the UK, Graham's a little bit of a, okay, I really do apologize. You gotta be careful here. I get name trouble all the time. I was just like, can we just call him Jack or John? And Nancy just really wanted Graham. She got it. Because you see, at least in the States, you say Graham,

but in England we call him Graham. Graham. Graham. Yeah, that's not right. Apologies to Graham's. Sorry, Graham. You all should move here to the States where we'll call him Graham. Eww. Graham. Graham. Yeah, that's not my brain. Apologies to Graham's. Sorry, Graham. Y'all should move here to the states where we'll call you Graham. So Graham Norton.

Oh shit, Graham Norton's gonna kill me. He's gonna import you if you just pass. Go. Yeah, I think every year, cause we have a routine. I told you we go hard in December. It starts with Family Vacation, the Christmas vacation movie.

Oh, yeah, yeah, well, it's Chevy Chase. It's Chevy Chase. Yes. Yeah, I can imagine being in it and then being upset about it, but on the outside, as an actor that's not in it, I'm like, what a goddamn blessing. Every year, I appreciate Chevy Chase for two hours every year,

and I'm going to until I'm dead. Yeah. That is such a gift. Yeah. When do you go on holiday when you live in California? We went to Mexico. I'll tell you exactly what I do. It's so embarrassing to say out loud,

but as I've gotten money, I've become a total hotel snob. So all I do is I go to FourSeasons.com and I look at the list of hotels and then I go to see which ones are booked and how long it'll take us to get there. I don't give a fuck where we go as long as there's a four seasons there. And so it turned out the one that was closest

and had availability was in Mexico, and we went and then it was delightful. That was great climate, lovely water. Everything was great. It was a big win. And you're in Mexico, so they'll let you do something they would never let you do in the States, which is I got a couples massage

with my then eight-year-old daughter. They won't massage a minor, especially on an eight-year-old in the States, but there, got a couples massage with my then eight-year-old daughter. They won't massage a minor, especially on an eight-year-old in the States, but there, everything was great. And I'm laying next to her and it was one of my, I mean, other than watching Lincoln at the Eris tour, listening to Delta go, oh wow, I like this. Oh, daddy, I wanna get a massage all the time.

Yeah, that's how it works. This is a very special thing. You're getting one. That's so cute. Wow. It was so fun to get to meet in the room with her like experiencing her first massage and she loved it.

I bet. That's really funny. She's gonna get a couples massage when she's married and I used to go with my dad to get couples massages. This one's not as good as the one I had with my dad. Oh my God. Okay, great. So let's just for one second talk about Skeleton Crew, because that's also coming out.

But I doubt you're gonna come see us again before December 3rd, which breaks my heart. So let's talk about it now. What's there to say? I'm not allowed to say anything. Oh, you're not? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. No, I can answer anything you want to know.

Well, I just think it's pretty cool to step into that world, I guess, Star Wars. It was really cool. I'm not like an insane Star Wars fan, but I grew up. It was a formative part of my childhood. I remember seeing those first three and they blew my little mind. And I probably ran around my yard for the next 10 years

going pew pew and you know, I'm Han. And my friends go, bleh, bleh, you know, all of the who didn't, right? Being very jealous of my neighbor, Daniel, who had a lot more figures than me. I think he even had an at-at, which really pissed me off. I know.

That's like a $200 tour. I befriended him and went over there and melted a few of them as they got lazy. But you know, but it was formative and made enough of an impression that stepping into it was just honestly a real joy. And I was lucky that the character that they wanted me to play has a really interesting contradiction and he's got a swagger and he's interesting. He's got a lot of sides.

But the genius was that the protagonists of this show are kids. So it doesn't have the sort of worthiness that some of the latter work I think had, which I, by the way, enjoyed. But it's through the eyes of these children who get lost in that world. I just thought it was a stroke of genius. It adds a kind of innocence. It adds an awe with real jeopardy still that I just think really breathed some sparkle back in. Yeah. Okay, my last question for you is about your wife. She is a behavioral psychologist.

Ooh. That's so hot. Our favorite guest. That is so hot. We do experts on Wednesdays. We've had a few behavioral. We constantly have psychologists on, and I love it, but of course,

I'm always most intrigued, if I'm being honest. You have this playbook, you kind of understand emotions, you know how to articulate how you feel. But then you're also just a real human in real life. Like in some weird way, you think they would have the answer key for existing. But I've never really got to interview the husband

of someone with the answer key. And when you guys get in like a spat, can she just go like, oh, here's exactly what's going on. You're responding to this thing when you were nine years old that you already told me, and I already fucking know this, and jump to it. The short answer is absolutely.

But the skill set that I have observed and appreciate the most is her calm in that scenario. I was so immature before I met her. I thought a row, an argument or a fight was getting really angry and shouting a lot and storming around and what she taught me was that you can row and be perfectly calm and sit down.

It's just a conversation where we really disagree. That was like an epiphany for me that blew my little mind. Oh, this is called being adult. Yeah, what age were you when you guys met? I was 40. And it was an ability to suddenly slow down and really look at what was being discussed, what was being disagreed on.

She's also incredibly generous. So she has a wonderful empathy, so much more so than me. And so at any given time, I also know that even if she sees the root of the pathetic little decision I've made, or stubborn little foot stomp I'm making, she kind of goes about it with great embrace. She's a very awesome person and huge patient. She puts up with me. Yeah.

If I put myself in your shoes, I'm very opinionated on how we should raise the kids. It's very important to me. I have a lot of opinions. I care more about that than anything. And I might have a chip on my shoulder that in theory she probably would be right, theoretically. If we were debating this course of action with the kids, I might feel

like, hey, just because you have all this training and knowledge doesn't mean my opinion isn't as valid. I'm lucky in that I've done it before. So where we are a pretty formidable team, I like to think, is that she has this study, she has patience and sort of wisdom. And I've been in the trenches and gotten muddy and bloody. So I can sort of go, yeah, that ain't gonna work. Let me tell you, we can go down that path. We're gonna lose teeth.

Yeah, in theory it's great. In practice, this is gonna happen. And it's a good mixture. Is she a Brit or an American? She's British. She is. Okay. What's that do to your brain?

Well, I don't know. I like it, I guess. That she's British? Yeah. Because I like exotic things. And if I had the option for exotic, I don't know, there's something nice about the fact that you're with a blue. Well, that's not true.

Cause look at your wife. She's pretty fucking American. Yeah. Yeah. Some might argue she's America's sweetheart. Yeah, some might. Like the world, the world says so. I don't know what I'm saying.

I thought there was something there and there's not. You were looking, you were fishing. You're absolutely right. That's not right. Yeah, I don't know. Well, all I know is that Sky was the limit for your options and you got yourself a hometown girl, so I think I like that.

Yeah, I was just very, very lucky to meet someone at that moment who had the generosity just to sort of get me and love me for me. That was the big mind blowing moment. Do you struggle at all? I had this hang up. I was with the girl for nine years.

She was with me through all the struggle. And then we broke up and I was really quite bothered by the fact that I would meet someone that already knew the successful version of me, already knew someone potentially on TV. Does that make any sense to you? Yeah, it does make sense, but it was pretty clear from the get-go.

First of all, I'd been pretty successful and known for quite a chunk of my life. Your whole life, really, yeah. And in a way, I sort of thought that that was the issue moving forward and finding someone. And to be honest, I'd gotten to a place where I thought, well, you know, I've been pretty lucky. I felt like I'd fallen in love before a couple of times.

It hadn't worked out. That's fine. I was healthy and happy. I was sort of starting to like myself again. I'd forgiven myself for some stupid behavior and moved on. So what was key was that she was clearly not interested in this public person or any of that, but in me. And that was mind blowing to me. And we became really great friends very, very quickly,

but that was the first step. Yeah. I don't wanna bring this up because it's not a fun topic and I don't wanna bring up anything scandalous at all. All I wanna ask, the one curiosity I have is during this fucking phone hacking thing, were you ever getting suspicious at any point? Like someone's got to be, like were there moments

where you're like, this is inexplicable? Yeah, they would turn up at places in the middle of nowhere or I'd be taking the kids on holiday. Mentally freaky. Very, very freaky. You start to circle the wagons and really start analyzing who in the circle is doing what. You get a little paranoid.

You make you paranoid, yeah. You get a little antsy about things. It just spins your head out. It's pretty traumatic, really. Yeah. I think it's hugely traumatic. It's so nuts that someone greenlit that. I know, on such a huge scale.

Right, they were doing the Prime Minister? And they figured out that paper, plus I'm sure some of the others, the content they were publishing every week, 80 to 90% of the content had been illegally sourced. I mean, that's how much they were outsourcing and paying for these people to provide these stories illegally, crazy.

I honestly think it would run the risk of making someone lose their mind. Yeah. Because you're already, let's just be honest, and I deal with it to some extent, not the degree you do, but reality's already been augmented. Like I go to Starbucks and people there know me. That's its own thing to come to terms with

and integrate into your existence. Yeah, I've got to remember it. I've got to think back. The color that I'm seeing, I was just pissed off. Yes. A lot. There was a good 10 years I was angry. I got kind of animal primal because the thing that really pissed me off

was the invasion in my kids' lives. And then I realized that I was the one actually upsetting the kids because they were seeing dad being like, get the fuck away, go away, la la la, what are you doing here? All of that stuff, whilst trying to provide a great, hey, we're all going to the park, let's go to the park.

Oh, fuck off, what are you doing here? It was just a messy time. Well, the kids, that's a really important piece, because I will say I'm really nice in general, in public. Me too. In the times I've been really aggressive. I wanna be a nice guy. I wanna be good and kind.

Same, same, same. The only times people have seen really bad versions of myself is when I'm with my kids. I'm sorry, they didn't sign up for this. I know you think somehow that's a price they should pay for having me as a parent, but that's bullshit. That's sins of our fathers stuff. Yeah, that's right.

And yeah, I've been my worst self, because I'm already a suspicious person. So I'd be like, oh, I know who it is. I know what's stuff. Yeah, that's right. And yeah, I've been my worst self because I'm already a suspicious person. So I'd be like, oh, I know who it is. I know what's happening. Something's happening. I would feel it. That would be maddening. You really went through something.

Yeah. And it's interesting to discuss because again, I'm someone who tends to genuinely just look forward. I don't dwell on the past much. I don't really look back over old work or old experiences. It is kind of therapeutic and interesting to discuss. And I remember the anger. I also remember it was inevitable that a,

once the line was drawn under it, or it seemed to subside, there needed to be a time, a space away from everything. I needed, a lot of healing had to take place. And it was a big turning point. The responsibility was also on me, meaning I didn't want the kids to see that stuff. So I had to learn how to deal with it in another way too.

That's the thing I really relate to you is like, I do that thing, I'm defending them in quotes, but really all they've done is seen me go from normal to really agitated and aggressive to someone else. And now they're just absorbing all that energy. So whatever damage this person that was filming my kids, which I was pissed about, did to them, what I ended up doing was worse.

And then having to fucking accept that, now it's like another layer. And I was like, that person took away my control and power, but then I did something even worse with it. I know. It's hard. De-stabilizing. Big old knot.

What a chapter. Yeah. Wow. You lived through that. I bet there's still residual decompression. Yeah, probably. Well, thanks for telling me about that. So I read that and I was there's still residual decompression. Yeah, probably. Well, thanks for telling me about that. So I read that and I was like,

oh man, the things I've had. I just can't believe it was allowed. Well, it was highly illegal in the end. Well, exactly. They paid out the thing closed. They put one of the guys in prison. Oh, that someone went to jail for it. But that's the whole thing though.

Oh good. Oh good. I mean, it's like good, but it still happened. You can't undo. Do you know how they found out in the end? So there had been complaints, there were suspicions arisen, aroused by various people in the public eye. And we were sort of told, sort of shut up,

you guys are famous, this is what you deserve. A young girl was murdered, and they hacked her telephone. Oh, my God. And so they listened to messages, which meant the police thought she was still alive. And when God. And so they listened to messages, which meant the police thought she was still alive. And when that got out, they finally realized

that's how low they went. Oh, sick. Oh. That's her mother. It's her mother's child's phone. Yeah. Oh my God. I know.

Oh. England's a weird place. I've only sued one of those magazines and it was a English magazine. It's interesting, because you guys actually have more protections than was an English magazine. It's interesting because you guys actually have more protections than we do. Yet. It's just a moral thing, right?

They just decide, let's really push the line. It's just really curious because it's like you have more legal protection there. That is bizarre. And yet they seem to offend worse than anyone else. I think they pushed that boundary of freedom of speech or hide behind it rather, saying this is freedom of journalism.

Right. Yes, yes. As if we need to know, like you're in a position of power or in the government. Well, dude, this has been a blast. I really like you. Do people normally come in and just start talking? I feel really, no, that's exactly how it goes.

This is how it goes. That's how it works. What a joy. This is how it goes. That's how it works. What a joy. But this was fun because we have some mutual friends that have never met you and you're fucking delightful. Well, you too. It's been such a thrill to be on this, really. I loved it.

Now you need to tell me, other than Anna, who else cries? I didn't cry. I got a little teary. Oh, I'm going to have to send you a list. I mean, not to brag, but we've had 800 people and I bet you a good 30 of them have cried. At least 30. Yeah, maybe more. Wow. Did I make Prince Harry cry?

No, you didn't. The Brits, I guess, don't cry. Well, they're kind of known for that. They cry at the pub in the bathroom. It's like a six points. Under the stairwell. They let it sneak up. Under the stairwell. They let it all out there, that's it. When they're hiding.

Your autobiography should be called Under the Stairwell. From Under the Stairwell to the Top of the Stage. Yeah. My life in the limelight. Well, this has been a blast. I hope you'll come back the next time you have to three movies coming out at once. All right, be well. Bye.

Thank you. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gonna let him have the facts. Hi. Is this Venti? No. Okay, brand new.

Regular. Right off the factory floor. Darn it. What? Well, this would be a spoiler for a future episode, but I was gonna put my cashmere in a little bag and bring it in so you could. Save it for that episode.

Okay, great. I have a big update. Oh, you do? Mm-hmm. So. The way you're steadying yourself for this update. Well, I need visual. I need line of visual, field of vision.

Field of vision, line of sight. Line of sight. Look. Oh my gosh, is that sight. Line of sight, look. Oh my gosh, is that the bear? This is the black bear. Well, hold on. Okay. It's not the black bear.

The original black bear is still. Out of your reach. Impossible. Except, so I went to the restaurant. Yeah. I chatted with my friend who works there. Okay, a server or a manager or the owner? I think the owner.

Or the valet? No, owner, manager, all of it. He does all of it. All of the above. And- The bald guy? Is he missing hair? I think so. Okay, I've got a great product for him.

No, he looks great. Okay, great. We chatted about the mug. Obviously, word has got to them about what's been going on. Well, they got active in the comments. I don't know if I, I think I didn't tell you that. Okay. Because I wanted to preserve your overall relationship

with a place you love. Okay. But they got active in the comments. They were like, don't steal our money. They were a little, they got a little. Okay. They really didn't get the joke that I was suggesting steal the mug and leave money. I see. And They were a little, they got a little, they really didn't get the joke that I was suggesting steal the mug and leave money.

I see. And they got, I think they got a little worried. So they got, they got busy in the comments. Oh, okay. So not check that they know about this whole thing. Also definitely don't steal anyone's anything. Unless you're gonna leave $1,000. No.

I bet they would be proud. No, actually this is, so I think this is sort of part of the issue. Like they're sold out completely. The mugs are sold out. Every single mug on the website is sold out. They're gone. I don't know if that's Armcherry's.

Were they sold out when you went and looked? Well, I know they weren't because you read from me the website. They were not. They weren't. A lot of them were available? Yes. So I have a feeling our beautiful Armcherry's

Got active. And are supporting this wonderful company, Salty Sea Dogs. Oh, that's what it's called, a lot of people are curious. Yeah, Salty Sea Dogs. Salty Sea Dogs, okay. If they wanna know more about my stuff, they can follow me on Instagram. Oh, right, okay, because you were tagging people and things.

Exactly. Okay. I do believe that we had something to do with that, and that makes me really happy, and my heart feel very full. Oh, good. So this is many parts. This is a thank you? Yeah, this is a huge thank you.

I went to the restaurant, we talked, the owner said potentially that if they get more in like more mugs in general, he'll give me an original black bear. There's two. Oh, wow, two different bears. No, there's two only left in the world. In the world?

At that restaurant. That's one of them? No. Okay, sorry. Yeah, so that bear has sort of a, what's the shape, triangle, sorta? That's not the right shape. That's not the right-

What if you didn't know the name of a triangle? Well, it's not a triangle, but it's like- Thank God it wasn't on the card, it's a trapezoid? Oh my God, speaking of the cognitive test, you know what I could not identify, did I already say this? I could not identify for the life of me a seahorse. Oh, interesting. She showed, you know, there were pictures of things

and there were like ball and cat, like so obvious. And then one was this thing and I was like, oh. A pelican, a sandwich. A sea lion? Like I could not remember. Sea lion makes sense, cause that's a thing. It is a thing, but it's not that thing. And I never got, she had to tell me.

She told you. Yes, and then I was like, I think this is racism. Oh. Yeah. Okay, not misogyny? Indians don't learn, no, this is an Indian thing.

Because women don't like horses as much as men, according to Barbie. Women love horses. That is true, but according to Barbie, men love horses are the patriarch. Sure. Okay, I guess it's both, pre-usual. Right is true, but according to Barbie, men love. Oh, sure. Horses are the patriarch. Sure. Okay. Okay, I guess it's both, per usual. Right, right, right.

Per usual, it's both things. Laundry list. Really, I was like, Indians don't know about seahorses. I'd be curious, if you're an Indian listener. And you grew up in Atlanta, Georgia. No, you couldn't have grown up anywhere in this country. Like, because, and I wonder if this is Indian for real. Okay, now we're transferring into real.

Okay, we gotta get back to the black bear, but one second. Because I'll suggest that genetically, you're probably more tolerant of high heat. That's preposterous. I didn't say that's preposterous. What'd you say? I said, stop talking.

Just shut up. Only I'm allowed to talk about being Indian. Yeah. That's fair. I think you're right about that potentially that I have some genetic disposition to high heat, but also I grew up in the South. But I'm gonna argue.

It's not a great argument because the US is also surrounded on three sides by ocean. Right. Because India is a goddamn peninsula. This is a subcontinent. This India is a goddamn peninsula. This is a sub-continent. This thing is submerged in water where seahorses are roaming free and wild. I would even think you'd over index

in seahorse knowledge. I don't think they have seahorses there. Okay. And also, you know when I would babysit young kids like yours, you know, here in America there's a big emphasis on teaching. How your position is this, like you've arrived. You almost sound like Steven Seagal,

how do you say in English? Oh, that is not fair. I am Indian. Okay. I think there's a big emphasis. Now I sound like Trump when he's talking about Kamala Harris. I don't know, she's Indian, that's fine. No.

She was black, now she's Indian. She used to be black, now she's Indian. Oh my God. I think there's a big emphasis in America for American school children and American, okay, preschool, when you're like, have babysitters and your parents are reading you books and stuff. There's a big emphasis on animals.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, identify this animal, what's this, what's this? I didn't have that. Well, to be clear, I didn't either from my parents. I had it from my grandparents. I would go to my grandma, Yolis, and she had those National Geographic books, and she wanted me to know.

But she's white. Yeah, I'm very, very smart and educated. It's the most educated of my lineage. Right, oh right, she is., very smart and educated. It's the most educated of my lineage. Right, oh right, she is. Only master's degree holder. I thought you said, I'm very, very smart and educated. Well, you are, and you're my grandma.

No, I thought you, you're my grandma. This is like Massimo. I thought you said the words, I'm very smart. Not Monica is, but I'm very smart and educated. No, I'm the average intelligence, except the cog test. I know, you're very smart. All right, but back to, so I didn't have that either, but I did have smart in it. No, I'm the average intelligence, except the cog test. I know, you're very smart. But back to you, so I didn't have that either,

but I did have it from my grandma. I'm just adding context for your American, because I grew up in America and you didn't, so I'm telling you how it worked. It's more American people put emphasis on animals. I think that's real. Is it? Yes, because pets.

You might totally be right, but I really wanna know the thought process of how you came to that. I am coming to it real time. I don't think pets are a huge part of the culture at all. I really don't. In India? Yes.

Well, God knows they have dogs. We saw a lot of dogs. Dogs. And they have cows walking around the street. They're roaming though. They're not pets. Yeah, so here's the one I was gonna launch really, really quick, and this is not thought out,

and probably full of holes like Swiss cheese, preferably on pastrami with coleslaw and a little Russian dressing. We don't have exotic animals, you know? We don't have lions and tigers and elephants and- Monkeys. Monkeys, and so they're very exotic and interesting to us. But maybe if you grew up in Africa or India

where these things are indigenous, they're not that interesting. So that could be kind of an argument. Like they're so exotic to us. They're almost like fairy tales, dragons and whatever. I'm not standing on that argument, but I did just come up with it. I think it's more America's obsessed with pets

and like, because I did learn about elephants. Okay. Because elephants are a big part of that culture. And so my grandparents, you know, there was elephants everywhere. Big symbol. Yeah. So I knew about them.

Okay, here, I got a new one that just came off the assembly line. We were raised on Disney cartoons and the stars of the cartoons are generally animals. They're Wile E. Coyote and all these fun and Dumbo and what's the little deer, poor Bambi. So I do think our cultural products are pretty rife with animals.

That's what I said. But I don't watch any cartoons in India. So I don't know if those two are populated. I bet they are. Kids like talking animals, don't you think? I don't know. Unfortunately, I'm not, I didn't grow up there. Should we call your dad?

And ask about animals? Yeah, ask him if, when he was a kid, were the cartoons, were the characters in cartoons mostly animals or were they humans? I don't think he had TV or movies. He walked to school. He did. No, he didn't. Let's ask him. Okay.

Let's get it straight from the horse's mouth. Ding, ding, ding, horse. We call people horse's mouth. Men love horses. Yeah, patriarch. Oh boy. Well, if your dad goes, how the fuck would I know I'm American?

Then he hung up. I would like that, Brian. Me too. He won't, he never hangs up on me. I don't know why you're asking these fucking questions. Hey, Monica. Hey, dad never hangs up on me. I don't know why you're asking these fucking questions. Hey Monica. Hey dad, you're on air. Well not live, but we are recording. Hi.

Hey. How are you? I'm in a meeting. Oh, oh no, okay. Dad, you wanna call me back? I will. Okay, all right, bye. That's so cute, he's in a meeting

but if his daughter calls. He kicks up, yeah., ding ding ding future guest. I know. Yeah. You gotta pick up when your daughter calls. That's right. Also I- She could be running from an attacker. I don't call a lot.

He's like, now's my chance. Yeah, oh, something's wrong. No, he thinks something's wrong. Yeah, he does. He does think something's wrong. But nothing's wrong, dad. You're just on the air. Just trying to figure out if everyone likes animals

or just Americans. What if I said, put me on speaker at your meeting? I wanna pull the group you're with. Certainly, you must, I think you need to extend this to Westerners, because certainly when I'm in Europe, everyone has dogs. In fact, if you go to like Nice and all these little French Riviera towns,

there are mechanized dog poop scooper uppers like in Cannes and stuff. These French let their fucking dogs waste just fall all over the ground. They're so willy-nilly. Oh, French. They're so romantic. So sexy. They have dog poops on the side, they're all so horny, let's go into the... Anyway, I don't know, maybe times have changed in India, but They had dog poops in the side, and they're all so horny, let's go in today. Oh. Okay. Anyway, I don't know, maybe times have changed in India,

but- We were just there, by the way. We did go to someone's house, and I didn't see any animals there. No, but they weren't hosting guests. They probably put their cats and dogs and seahorses away. They don't have them. They don't have them.

I really don't think it's a, should we ask Hussein? Or do we know? I don't think he would put pets. But he's gonna be in the same boat as you. Exactly. He'll tell us what it's like in fucking Stockton, California.

No, he's gonna say, the culture, he didn't grow up. His parents didn't bring cats and dogs around. My grandfather was a, for a long time, a vet. Legally or just? No, I think legally. Like I'm a doctor? No, he was a, don't laugh at him, he's dead. He was a professor of genetics.

Right, I think that's different than a veterinarian. No, he did a lot of work with animals. Okay, autopsies. And at one point he was a vet. I don't know all the details, okay? But listen, even him who was like, knew a lot about animals and was around them, they didn't have pets.

Right. That's like a separate thing. Anyway, Indians don't have pets, okay? Right. We're gonna have a guest on next year, who I'm gonna ask. Okay. And I'm really excited to ask.

She won't know either. Are you talking about, she'll know if she had pets in America. What are you talking about? I thought we're trying to figure out if Indians in India know about seahorses and have pets. It's all related. It's all related.

If they themselves weren't around a lot of animals or it wasn't a big part of the culture, they're not teaching their little kids about animals. They're not like picking that out as something, oh, identify all these animals as something important to do. They don't care about that. Okay. So it's why I don't know about seahorses.

I'm not pushing back on that. I'm introducing a new thing, which I think helps your argument, which is I don't know if other countries have aquariums. Aquariums are huge. Wabi, did you have an aquarium? Yeah, at one point I had a little aquarium. You mean at your house?

Yes, and you must have had many friends that had aquariums. Yeah. I had an aquarium. I had an aquarium phase, and my buddies all had aquariums. Sure. And you dump some seahorses in there. I think you throw them in like powder and then all of a sudden they're alive.

There's something really interesting about seahorses where they can be transported as a powder and then become seahorses. Oh, I'm so happy I was spared that. So I had definitely seen them moving throughout aquariums, aquarii. Yeah. Okay.

Anyway, back to the bear. Wow. Okay, the original bear mug has like basically a triangle square bottom rectangle. Salty Seadog sent me this new bear. Oh. And they said, it's only for me. Oh wow, congratulations.

Isn't this so sweet? You know who that bear looks identical to? Did you ever read this book to Lincoln or Delta, the great paper caper? Ding, ding, ding. What? Books about animals. Yeah, sure. I did read that to them, yeah.

That's how I learned about bears. That's how the bear's drawn. It looks very similar to that. It's such a cute bear. The great paper caper is one of my favorite children's books. The drawings are so cute and playful. Yeah.

Remember the owl? They're all like, they show that wide of all of them, what they're doing on their own. Like, well, someone's cutting down trees and using it to make paper. We don't know who. And they show all the suspects. And like, I think the owl's just staring at a tree

or something. One of them's peeing. Like the snow's yellow where he's at. So cute. That's so cute. Have you read his Halloween book, Oliver Jeffers? No, what's it called? There's a ghost in this house. Oliver Jeffers is the guy who wrote that

and illustrates it. And it's got like transparent pages, so there's ghosts when you turn them. Ooh, exciting. Scary. I need to order that. Too late. No, you can still love it.

Okay, yeah, yeah. I guess I'll be... Well, look, we're really far out already for Hollywood, Halloween 2025. We already have a lot of balls in motion, as you know, in an out truck. So might as well just go, and then we'll also have this new book.

Yeah, get it now for next year. Yeah, now for next year. Anyway, I'd really wanna thank Salty Seedogs for this incredible gift. They also, they made a brown bear as well. That's the new one that went up on the website. They sent me that too. Oh my God, now you're-

Just in case I liked that one more. So I don't understand why you don't have all of them. You have a brown one and a black one, but there's still one you don't have? The original black bear, why can't, this is so easy to follow. Kind of. You've now got two bear mugs

and you're telling me you don't have- There's a third. This one is a one of one, which is very special. The original bear is, there's two. That live at Budenoki, the restaurant. And then Brown Bear went up on the website, but it is sold out.

Do you think they could make me a ball set cowboy mug? Maybe. Cause like the mug part would be the balls and then there'd be a handle and then there'd be a penis sticking out. Oh God. And then the cowboy would be on just the, what are you saying, oh God.

That's a nice. I don't wanna make that make you a penis. Why? It's so playful. You have a painting and we had merch. I love it when you make it, but I would feel very uncomfortable asking somebody else to make a penis mug for you. But because Saughty Seedogs is so nice.

Also, I guess some, a listener sent you a robot mug. What? Maybe you haven't received it yet. Spoiler. Oh God, I didn't know that. Because they sent gifts for the team. Oh my, oh my heavens. Wabi, come in here.

You got a really, really good one. You're jealous of his. I am, I am. Yeah. Yeah, it's a Sasquatch. Oh, but it's a playful little boy, Sasquatch. It's so cute. Yeah.

Oh my God, these are adorable. Isn't it so cute? Can you get a little story about the person? Yeah, you can, it's a certification for adoption. These are like Cabbage Patch dolls. Yeah. And they sent you that nice note. I love that we're all locked into our generation.

He said Build-A-Bear, I said Cabbage Patch. True. What if, hold on bear, I said, cabbage patch. What if, hold on before you pull it off, because I was being rascally about the whole mug thing and steal it and everything. And what if the mug they made me was a middle finger? That would be great. And it just had eyes on the middle finger.

Let's be clear, salty sea dogs is not upset. Okay, great, great, great. They are very grateful. Oh, okay, good, good, good, good. Budenoki, if people are stealing from their establishment, I understand if they're upset, please don't do that. Unless you can leave $1,000. No, Dax.

Okay, don't do that, okay. Is there a price they could leave? I really don't think so. $1 million, Monica. No, because they are the reason that these mugs are a thing. Right. And they brought them to America, they're Canadian. They brought these to America.

Wait, the mugs are the restaurant? The mugs. Okay. Well, the guy is Canadian, so he knows these people and he did a nice thing and he stocked his restaurant with these mugs and it turned into such a fucking- Feeding frenzy. Because now they're like, we don't have enough.

Because people are stealing them. Well, I don't know if they're stealing them or just. They're breaking. Well, no, they're very durable. Okay. But. Really quick, do you know what Paola is? No.

Rob, will you read the definition of Paola? So in terrestrial radio, there would be DJs who would get in trouble for Paola, which is they would start talking about products and they on the side were getting money. And it's against the law. Yeah, it's the practice of bribing someone to use their influence or position

to promote a particular product or interest. Bribing. Yes. They were getting paid. They were getting paid. Oh. You're like straddling the line. No! How dare you?

I just think you need to announce that you've received no money from anyone. Of course not. Just a couple thousand dollars in mugs. It's not a bribe though, because these are things I like. I'm just talking about them. But you started talking about how durable they were,

and I was like, now it sounds a little bit like a pitch. They are durable. They're a great product. Everyone should buy them, and I get a kickback. Ah, she uses URL code. I get 10%, but it's not Paola. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. Now yours, I don't, you're not going to love what's happened, I think. I think you are and you're also not because this is, let me read it to you.

Hi Dax, we wanted to send you a mug as a huge thank you for the exposure on Armchair. However, one of your amazing fans already sent you a robot. Instead, we sent you a mug for Kristin. Perfect. If you wish to give it to her. Also, we wanted to mention that we pulled our audience to hear what their favorite Armchair Expert episode was. 95% of your fans said day seven.

It was a beautiful reminder that when we are open, honest and humble, we are able to make the biggest impact. We will carry that lesson with us forever and we thank you for that. Okay, now I'm super on board. Now? Well, yeah, now. Now I know where their spirit and heart is.

Oh, it's a three-toed sloth. Oh, what if you couldn't remember it? What if it was a sea horse? It's a cute sloth. That's very cute. Kristen will love it. Give her her certificate of adoption. Okay, so Rob got one, you got one, Kristen got one.

Where's your robot? You need to go find it. I'm asking Carly if she tracked it down. I haven't even seen a robot on the website. I'm nervous you got like a special one. I'm nervous you got a special one. I mean, I got a special one too. Yeah.

Anyway, we love Saucy C. Yeah, not a sponsor. We really do. Isn't that sweet? It is very sweet. I have updates. Great. So this is a rare case where I listened to the arm cherries.

I listened to you as well, but I also listened to the arm cherries, which is we talked a lot about my toe fungus, and people were, some people were almost a little panicked. Gotta go to the doctor. Melanoma, melanoma, melanoma. I remember the melanoma. I know someone. Fuck.

Right, so a lot of melanoma stuff. Okay, there's a lot funny here, and this really kind of ding ding dings it as well. This is tied in in a weird way. The sloth. Yeah, so I go to my, now he got really mad when I called him a GP. He's not, he's an internist.

Okay. And I hadn't realized that that was so offensive, but that's neither here nor there. Okay, is it like canceled? Like the word is canceled? No, just he made a lot of analogies, I'm not gonna repeat, because then I'll offend some GPs,

but just he's, I'm an internist. I pull the toe out, he looks at it, and while he's looking at it, he goes, okay, so you tell your wife, she's our shiksa. Wow. And he's an older male doctor. Okay. So he looked at the toe and then he said that.

Yeah, I think probably he was waiting as long as he could wait before he brought it up. And then it just kind of came up. So he told me how much he loves Kristen as a shiksa, which is so funny. So then he goes, there's a guy across the hall, there's a podiatrist across the hall and I'm pretty close with him.

I'm gonna run over there and see if he's got a minute to look. He was like, I'd rather have him just look at it. Privilege, privilege, privilege. The guy's got 10 minutes. I'm with my mom too. I brought my mom with me and I brought her in the room with have him just look at it. Privilege, privilege, privilege. The guy's got 10 minutes. I'm with my mom too. I brought my mom with me and I brought her in the room with me,

which was really fun. And made me feel like I was a little kid again. Yeah, you should have gone to the pediatric. I should have. And then we should have gone to McDonald's and got an ice cream cone afterwards because I was a good strong boy who was not afraid of shots.

And so I said to her honestly, and I said, hey, you wanna go to the doctor with me and pretend that I'm eight again? And she goes, yeah, I'd love to. So we went said, hey, you wanna go to the doctor with me and pretend that I'm eight again? And she goes, yeah, I'd love to. So we went to breakfast first and then we went to the doctor. So then we go across the hall and go to the pediatrist and he starts looking and he stops and he goes, I gotta tell you, that your wife is a-

Stop. Back to back within 10 minutes, both of them very older doctors. And I was like, this show is magic. Oh, it's huge. It's magic. How is this guy, and then I'm seeing young kids in New York, I've not seen a show that's like,

The net's that wide. And dads, dads is the weird bullseye, because the aforementioned guest Easter egg, whose kids called, he too, he had seen it and his kids had it, that's, Easter Egg, whose kids called. Yes. He too, he had seen it and his kids had it. That's neither here nor there. Be honest. Yeah. Were you a little like, can you just like,

can you be a doctor for a second? No. Really? No, no, no, I thought he knows her and I got squeezed in and I'm only benefiting from the notion that this gentleman just loved my wife's show. But don't you think maybe it's like rose colored glasses,

like when he looks at the toe, he's just like, oh, it's perfect, like her. And it could be melanoma. What if he goes, what if he looked at my toe and he goes, I can't believe she's with you. What does that mean? Yeah, exactly. She deserves so much better than this.

Exactly. That would be hysterical. No, you know what's funny, and I'm gonna credit my good friend Kevin Zeegers. Kevin Zeegers, if you don't know who he is, he's a great actor and he's a good friend of mine and I absolutely love him and he's got this, he's on a new Taylor Sheridan show

and he's a fucking like Marlboro man cowboy. He looks incredible. Cool. Keep seeing pictures of him, he looks gorgeous. Okay. Shout out. He texted me like three weeks into the nobody wants this phenomenon. And he said, I'm so grateful things are going good with your career right now

because otherwise you'd be suicidal. Yeah. I was like, that's probably true. So to answer your question, I'm not above that feeling bad, but I feel my self-esteem is very good currently. And as we know, it's very fluid. Sure, all of us.

And on another day I might feel bad, but I felt just fine about it. And I'm trying to live by what I keep telling the kids, which is, hey, we're a team. When one of us shines, the whole team shines. We go to a party and Delta's the big hit because she's dancing. That's the Shepherds.

Yeah, for sure. Team Shepherds, one. Well, that's a beautiful way of looking. I think that's correct. And I feel that. And that's a perfect way. I feel like, you know what? This thing, it's a team and if she's,

everyone loves her, the team, that's great for the team. I know, it is great. I guess there are things, there are places. That you want your own attention? It's not about attention. I don't want you to know me or anyone in my life. Oh, like if I was in there for anal warts. Again, no shame.

People get anal warts, it's not their fault. Like my waxer. But if I was on all fours and my butt cheeks were spread and he's looking at this outgrowth. And he's like, your wife's my shick son. Oh my God, I was watching a show. I thought I spilled my popcorn and I was laughing so hard at whatever part.

Yeah, it's like, I wish you just didn't know me. I wanna be anonymous. That's fair. I wasn't too humiliated by this. So great distinction. Yeah, if I was in there for erectile dysfunction, again, no shade, it happens to tons of men. Of course.

But these things that would be hard for me to go in and talk about, I might wanna be anonymous. Yeah, okay. He looked at the toe, he goes, not melanoma. Right away, boom, not melanoma. Your wife's too hot for that. And so here's- It could definitely not be melanoma.

I was like, what's your wife doing right now? And I'll say this is a bit of a PSA. And this is not a, I'm not saying it can't happen another way, but what they did tell me was when it's melanoma, if you have melanoma under your toenail, you'll generally see, it'll start kind of growing into your cuticle. Now we've got a different thing.

You'll be able to see some of the darkness in your cuticle probably. Also, so then he got after that nail. He got a pair of little sharp pliers and he just started going, no shot of numbing agent. Did you feel it? Oh yeah. Oh.

We're talking about the show and what's good about the show. Oh my God, Jesus Christ. Do you wanna see it? Yes. Okay. Oh my God, this is so exciting. And also this is Paola.

This is like getting people to watch us on YouTube. I'm trying to have any, you know, lint. Okay. Maybe I can hold it up to her camera for one second. Yeah, hold it to camera. Okay. Look guys, it's not great, but I gotta tell you, that is an enormous improvement.

No, here we go. Can you see it? Oh, he sounded just like a camera operator. Yep. Like he's in the sweet spot of it. Total sharp razor focus. Okay. Okay. Let me look.

Wow. Okay. Cause you've seen it in a lot of iterations now. You've seen the enormous like thick, Oh, Oh, Oh, here's a brag. Do you know what the doctor had by his side? Like the closest instrument he had, the toe doctor, a Dremel, exactly what I've been using. Yeah, I felt very vindicated by that.

That doesn't mean you know how to use it. Well, I don't know. There's not a lot of ways to use a Dremel, go ahead. That was bad as I was expecting. Well, did you see the photo? You should have seen I'll show you the photo do you if you want to zoom in on that? Do hold on. Let me get you a photo. Yeah, it looks way better. It's not black anymore, right? It was the black. There is some red but that looks like blood. Okay. Here you go Rob. That's what it looked like Big improvement, right? I. Are you dare we,

do you wanna try to get that info? No, are you gonna? Oh my God, wow. Yeah. So that's where I was putting the safety, hot safety pin through. And then there's soot gathered in the holes as you see. But that, see all that darkness,

that's what we were worried about. What an ugly toenail. But anyways, I skipped out of that appointment. I skipped because it's fine. Everything's fine. So there's nothing more for you to do? I don't think so. Oh, I'm gonna go see him in three months.

Okay, follow up. I hope the black doesn't come back. By the way, this is nothing, but it's funny I just said three months because he said, okay, so do you wanna come back in three months or do you wanna make an appointment? And I- Do you wanna come back in three months

or can we wait till season two is out? Should we? You wanna coordinate it with the drop of season two? I said, yes. And he goes, which one? I go, I wanna call and schedule it in three months. Basically I got this commitment phobia right away. I was like, I don't know what it was.

I was like, I can't commit to coming back in three months right now. Again, you know I'm already know my issue. But I'm like, but I'm committing to call to schedule it in three months. He's like, just leave. Like, I don't know what the result is, what it makes sense.

Why is she with you? I just cannot understand. I'm gonna go home and rewatch it and try to wrap my head around why you're. Wait a minute. Wait! Oh my god! No way! Carly! The robot is so cute!

I like to drink hot coffee. It gives me a charge in my boots. Look how cute he is. Oh my goodness, that is adorable. He's not on the site. Well, whoever bought this for me, I don't deserve it. My toe's disgusting. No.

But thank you. Oh my God, that robot is adorable. That is adorable. Okay, so there was, that's the Toe update. Okay. And I, sorry I scared Cherries. I'm melanoma free. I went to New York last weekend

and was a part of the New Yorker Festival. Yeah, how cool. It was really cool. Not just my thing, but just even being in the green room. And then Tyler, and I'm afraid to say her last name and I'm embarrassed, but it's F-O-G-G-A-T-T. She is a senior editor at the New Yorker and she's under 30.

Oh. And she is. Oh, my dad's calling. Oh, great. Cat eyes. Remember we call them cat eyes? Hey Monica, what's going on? We just have a quick question about-

Cartoons from your childhood. Did you watch cartoons? Did you have cartoons in India? Television cartoons? Yeah. No, when I grew up, we didn't even have a TV. That's what I said. That's what I told Dax and he didn't believe me.

So when's the first time you saw a cartoon? Probably, well, I'm British. I mean, I can't be sure, but I think only after coming to this country. Yeah, that makes sense. There are many right now. Right, but not back then. Back then, no.

Yeah. As I said, you know, I was in past college when we moved to New Delhi when I first have TV. That was black and white. Ashok, we're beating around the bush. Monica didn't know what a seahorse looked like and she's blaming her Indian heritage. And I think that's bullshit.

Yeah, dad, do you know what a seahorse is? I don't. See? Exactly. Oh, wow, you won. seahorse is? I don't. See, exactly. Oh, wow, you won. Exactly, I knew it. Because also I was saying. I don't. I was saying that.

One of the smartest men in the world. Yes, because in India, don't you think, dad, don't you think they put less of an emphasis on animals, like pets, than they do in America? I know that was the case. Not anymore. Okay. I mean, at least, you know, it's really associated with wealth. You know, as people get, you know, they have more money.

Yeah. Extra food to give to an animal. You know, you have, you know. They have dogs and domesticated pets. You know, we had a dog when I grew up. Dad, you didn't really. You had a feral dog that ran around the house. Obviously, now there are people with a lot of pets.

I know, but then I'm talking about my generation of parents like you guys. You guys didn't have animals, domesticated animals as much, I don't think. Cause I was saying with kids here, they read storybooks like from early on and they're identifying animals. It's like part of the curriculum. And that's not what you guys did.

No. Yeah. We did not do that. I'm glad to talk to you because I am right. It's very clear and- And rare. It's very common. and it's just another one to add to the list. Anyway, sorry we interrupted your meeting.

That's okay, I got to the meeting, there was nothing there. Okay. That was everything else, everything else good? Yeah. Well, joke, have you watched Nobody Wants This? No, what is it? I think I've heard about it.

That's Kristen's new show on Netflix. It's- Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not going to, yes. I've not watched it, no. Yeah, Dax thinks, well, it's been coming up that a lot of dads have secretly watched it. And so we've been asking around. It's good.

It's a good show. Yeah, yeah. Well, I will then. I'm gonna watch it. Okay. It's already on Netflix, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, I will, man. I'll watch it. Okay. It's already on Netflix, right? Yeah, it is, it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, Dad, we're gonna go.

Oh, well, that's, okay, bye, love you. Bye. Love you too, bye. Okay, so I was talking about Tyler. She's so impressive. I ended up reading a bunch of her writing before I went and she interviewed me. And she was so smart and wonderful and impressive

and I had so much fun and she made me cry a bunch of times and it was really, really lovely. But fuck that, because now I'm remembering the very funniest thing that happened when we were in New York. And I have all the photographic and video evidence of this. Okay, so we went to Robert Downey's play on Friday night, McNeil, and Rafi,

my friend Rafi's also in it. And we're sitting in the theater before the show starts, and behind us is, I don't know, four or five women, and they see Kristen, and so they start telling her that they loved her Netflix show. They don't say the title out loud. Now there's three older women in front of us and they just kind of detect someone's famous behind them, right?

Because there's a hubbub. Yeah. So now they're really curious. I'm watching the whole, I have the best vantage point for this entire thing. So I'm watching that and then I watched the woman pull out her phone and it's just directly in front of me. It's four feet away from me. And she, Monica and I filmed all this. It's so, I haven't been laughing so hard in so long.

She wrote, her first search on Google was like romantic movies. So she searched romantic movies. And of course, where's that gonna take her? That's Harry, Sally sleep was it. And she's just, I'm gonna take her? That's Harry, Sally, Sleep with it. And she's just, I'm watching her scroll, that's not it, that's not it. And then she refines her search

and she writes, what's on Netflix? Now all this stuff comes up and she's, and now I'm like, I'm nudging Kristen like, oh my God, look at this woman's trying just like the most carpet bomb search to try to figure out who you are, this is so funny. So she's scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. I've got probably nine minutes of her searching

the entire internet. She starts whittling it down and then she realized, because movies, that was her cardinal sin as she was usually including movies in her searches. Somehow by the minute nine, she gets to TV shows and I'm watching and I have the exact moment where she's scrolling and she sees nobody wants this. And then she hits it really excitedly

and then she moves to her friend and I dolly right and I get it and I see her thing. And then her friend sees and now they're really excited. Then she pulls her phone. Now this is the knockout punch of all knockout punch. And she texts her friend, oh my God, you're not gonna believe it. We're sitting in front of Zach Shepard and Kristen Bell.

We have the video, we're gonna post it. It's nothing could be funnier. Then the person she's texting writes back, it's Dak. D-A-K. Oh no, my God. Oh my God. When we saw the correction was no, it's Dak with a K. Holy cow, was I fucking laughing so hard.

And we have the entire thing on video. Oh my God, was that funny. I could entire thing on video. Oh, funny. Oh my God, was that funny. I could not get over that. Oh, no, it's Dak. I'm in front of Zach Shepard. Oh, jeez. What did she say that made you cry?

I think it started with, and this came up in yesterday's episode, you know, there's gonna be a few that they're gonna single out of episodes we've had. My mom being one of them. I end up having to explain how special my mom is to me. And how she's the foundation of why I'm curious and she's so empathetic.

And I mean, next level empathy where it's like even the bad guy deserves some compassion. Even that kid who killed another kid in a drunk driving accident, what's happening with his family? That spirit of hers. But of course in trying to describe my mom out loud on a microphone, which I don't do often, I couldn't get through it.

And then I'm trying to tell about the episode which I can barely kind of get through. And then she's reading some stuff, some reactions to things that were, you know, I was just, I was a mess the first third of it. I was still funny, I hope. I think people were laughing enough. But yeah, I got pretty emotional.

What I was thinking when I left was, I was like, A, of course I just immediately get insecure. Like, God, that's so self-indulgent to be like crying on a stage. You don't make time to sit down and go over your life. You would never like sit there and then just reflect on your life. But then in an interview like that, it's kind of this,

I mean, I don't know why I'm saying this is what we do for a living. But you're forced to walk through your life a little bit. Yeah. And I'm at the old age where that makes me emotional now. Yeah, that's very sweet. Yeah, it was really, really fun and she's incredible. We should interview her at some point.

Oh, I would love that. Yeah, she's a powerhouse. That's a ding, ding, ding to Jude because we talked about crying a lot. We did trok about crying a lot. We did talk about crying a lot. I really liked him. I really, really liked him too. Yeah, he was a very cool person.

Okay, a few things. Had Cate Blanchett done Elizabeth by the time she did Talented Mr. Ripley? Yes. She did. Was Heart Eight PT Anderson's first film? His first feature? Yes. Drugs and alcohol Heart Eight PT Anderson's first film, his first feature, yes. Drugs and alcohol are down with younger generations.

That is true. Young adults in the US have become progressively less likely to use alcohol over the past two decades, but the percentages of 18 to 34 year olds saying they ever drink, that they drink in the past week and that they sometimes drink more than they should all lower today. Well, those are the three categories.

At the same time, drinking on all three metrics has trended up among older Americans while holding fairly steady among middle-aged adults. That's interesting. Yeah, it would be too blanket of a single explanation of why older people drink more. Yeah. But I do wonder, and I think a lot of people are like,

I'll retire, it's gonna be great, life's gonna be a blast, no work. And they get there and like, oh, it's a little boring. I don't really know what the fuck to do. Yes. Why doesn't this feel the way I was anticipating for the last 40 years of my labor? And then, what are you gonna do?

You just, well, let's get drunk. Yeah. Also in like, the rate of drinking in homes is very high. Cause also like they're social with each other. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. So that's kind of interesting. I wonder if your hangovers get, they must, it seems like they get worse and worse and worse,

cause mine just got worse and worse. And as I hear from everyone, as they age, they get worse. But they can sleep in a lot. But they don't, they wake up at 3.30 in the morning. They're having lunch at 10 a.m. Oh, God. You talked about a group in Germany called the Deutschland Something Group,

which I couldn't find, but there is a really big group forming in Germany, a far-right group called AFD. The Far Right Alternative for Germany. It's an alternative for Deutschland, I guess. Is that the one? Yeah, that's the one. Oh, got it.

Alternative Deutschland, yeah. Yeah, there's millions of people. It's a very concerning, it's a healthy chunk of people. So scary. Great frontline, people should check that out. Oh, yeah. Everyone should check that out. Oh yeah. Everyone should just watch more frontline in general. So good.

We did not talk about the substance, so we'll have to talk about it next time. Cause I saw it and we have stuff to discuss. We do. We do. People should try to see it. See it. Between now and next time. Which is dicey cause we also told people

to watch Chimp Crazy and then we were a little late on our explanation. Well, we also want to give people time to see it. Yeah, we also told people to watch Chimp Crazy, and then we were a little late on our explanation. Well, we also want to give people time to see it. Yeah, we got to give people the time they need. Yeah, people need time. And that's it. All right, I love you. Love you.

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