Beantown Podcast - 06022018_Quinn David Furness presents the Beantown Podcast ft. Maggie J

Episode Date: June 2, 2018

Quinn sits down with Maggie J to discuss the trials and tribulations of all things graduate school. We also discover whether the camera really adds 10 pounds!

Good afternoon, welcome to the Bean Town Podcast, presented by Quinn David Furnace, the People's Podcast, New slogan we're trying it out. People really like it as voted by you, the fans. We're coming to you live from 817 St. Paul Street where it is humid as a cow's utter, probably 100% humidity, mid 80s. It's just, this is the way it is here for about the next three months. So you better use to it. I was folding my laundry half an hour ago

and I swear to God, I was just sweating. Like I don't have my AC on right now because I wanna get as far into the summers I can without turning it on because then your utility bill just goes through the roof once you do that. So I've still got fans going and all that stuff and windows open, all the stuff you're supposed to be doing, keeping my fridge door open, my freezer doors open, all the good stuff that you need to do to cool down your house and I'm still sweating. So we'll see how far I can make it. Listener discretion is advised.

When you're listening to the bean-town podcast for two reasons. One, we will occasionally use some 18 plus language here and there, and the number two, the podcast is just objectively terrible. Although my hope is that today, the podcast is going to be just a little bit less objectively terrible because we are being joined by a

fabulous spectacular guest Miss Maggie come into us live from northern Illinois to talk all about grad school something that I myself have been through and something that Maggie is one week you hit her her to hear first and something that Maggie is one week, you heard her hear her first, one week away from finishing. That's very exciting. If you're sitting at home,

sipping on your penis colladas, go ahead and give a round of applause for Maggie because she's worked hard and she deserves it. Maggie, welcome to the Bean Town podcast. How are you doing today? Thank you for having me. I'm doing well. How about you? I'm doing great.

Listen to that clean, crisp audio quality. We're coming to you with the Samsung Q2U USB microphone dual action using that with a little FaceTime audio and a little cheeky speaker I bought. Let's see what the brand is on that. Doesn't have a brand. That's not what you like to see when you're going for sponsorship dollars.

But yeah, Maggie, so glad that you could come on the podcast. To us today, we're going to be talking about grad school and kind of the mental health aspect of that. So let's go ahead and jump right in with the first question here. Why don't you just give us a quick, not necessarily quick, but a general overview of what program you're in and what the overall experience has been like for you.

So my program, I'm part of this specific program where it's a combined degree business. So I just finished my bachelor's last year and then I had this one year where I kind of rushed to finish my master's degree. So it's been kind of like rocky in terms of like having that transition and being able to maintain that objective aspect of being a graduate student but at the same time not so much. So that was a lot of like last year and I can get into the technicalities a bit later, but yeah, my degrees in psychology,

and I'm in a more specified program within psychology at my school and yeah. Now you and I are both people who have or well have done our masters in pretty short periods of time. I think mostly for masters two years is kind of the standard. There are plenty of people who do it quicker, combined degree programs, one your programs, all that sort of stuff. What would you say for you has been the biggest challenge of doing a graduate program in such a small period of time? I think it's definitely the kinds of expectations that are put on to you and also that time ring that you have to fulfill those expectations. So basically for my program I paired up in a lot of the classes with the PhD students and

other master's students who are doing a more traditional route of the master's program, where it is like a two-year program and I'm more thrusted into it as I do like my one-year terminal degree and then I'm finishing up my bachelor's at the same time. So I guess initially the hardest part was being able to make that really quick transition from the undergraduate mindset, so the graduate mindset. Because it's so easy to forget about the workload that you have as an undergraduate. You kind of think, oh, yeah, this is the college experience. I have all this homework when I have time to go out and go to the house parties and stuff and do all this cool stuff on the weekends with graduate school that completely disappears you

Become so entrenched in your work and you become Part of the program to the point where you're living and breathing this stuff non-stop and There is that expectation that oh you're going to write these non-stop and there is that expectation that oh you're going to write these multitudes of papers that we're going to assign you from each class and on top of that you need to be you've joined in with a lab and then you need to be networking and why don't you have an internship at this point and it's just like it's so much and when you don't have the basic skills or you didn't have that mental reset to where you could just kind of breathe and

take it all in. It's really difficult to get your to to get started on that I would say. Yeah I totally agree with what you said. I mean it really consumes your life. You know if you're in grad school full-time you probably don't have time to, you know, take two nights out of your week to go spend time hanging out with friends, that sort of thing, go get drinks. I mean, I can recall last year in my graduate program, we would do that, but it would be like, after our 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. class, we'd go out and get like one drink and it wasn't, you know, it was always kind of tied to the school mindset and then on top of that, I was working 40 hours a week with all my night classes.

And it really just takes over your life. And I know that's not everyone's experience, but that's definitely something that you have to recognize before you commit to something. And then one other thing I'll add to this, which is unique to actually both of our experiences experiences is that we both went to graduate schools that were on the quarter system which you know if you don't know about it it's pros and cons compared to the semester system as you would expect but one of the really difficult things is how fast-paced those

classes are it's a lot of them, you get 10 weeks, and that means nine or 10 lectures. It just means you're responsible for a lot of the learning on your own, which I think is true of master's degrees across the board, but it's amplified with the quarter system. I like the quarter system, but there are definitely some challenges associated with it. Right. Yeah.

And actually on that point like with kind of like grabbing drinks after class, it's so tied in like when you're doing a graduate program, you're kind of expected to hang out with your cohort and just stay within that social group I would say. Like not a lot of people in graduate school, I think like have friends that are, I think outside of like that general program because I know that a lot of people within my program, they know each other because they've worked and labs together or they know so and so

through a faculty member or something. And they really like kind of intermingle in that program and they're not very much apt to reach out to the broader community in that university or to reach out to other graduate programs I would say. Yeah, absolutely. There's definitely that, whether it's Cedra, I said there's that expectation that you're doing that. I know that was something that I don't know if I would label it as a huge challenge for

me necessarily, but it was, you know, so I went to grad school eight miles from where I went to undergrad and so I spent a lot of time with the people in my cohort, but I was also trying to balance my France from undergrad because I started my graduate programs three months after I finished my undergraduate program. So yeah, there's a lot of that balance as well. You're absolutely right. I think we've touched on a lot of this already, but what are some of the biggest physical

and mental adjustments you have to make when you started grad program that you think people should know about before they commit to one. So definitely a lot of mental health preparation I would say there's a lot of things that manifest in your time in graduate school both of physiologically and mentally. So it's always good to kind of check yourself and see if you're you know you're doing okay mentally if you're not kind of like in that state of stress and not like on the verge of I would say burning out or to really consider like whether you want to dive into a graduate program immediately or if you just want to take a year or two to

kind of reconsider options, play around a little bit in the applied world, I would say, and kind of garner experience from there. So I think being able to have that capacity to kind of keep the ball rolling and not feel like you're dragging yourself to the finish line. I think it's all about that I would say. And just I don't know, I guess just like making sure that you know there aren't things that can manifest later and especially if you have certain relationships that you have to keep in mind if you require like a certain amount of time to keep those relationships growing or if you feel like you have to be in terms of relationships that could be anything

from family, friends, significant others. It's really important to consider if the relationship will be maintained or if it's like you need to remain close to those relationships because they keep you, I guess, stable in a way with your work or not. And it's just all really important to consider. And it's something I've definitely overlooked with my time in graduate school and I really wish in hindsight that I would have focused in more on that and reconsidered and maybe taking a break or something like that. Yeah, absolutely. So you, right here, let's jump back into this mental health aspect of, I guess, physical health as well. So for you specifically, what were some symptoms or just things that manifested from your time in grad school,

both physical and mental health? What were some things that you were challenged by? Um, so a couple of weeks ago I contracted shingles from stress. Yikes. Yeah. Um, now that I think about it, oh my god, I've just had such a loaded schedule, if you know, just making sure that I'm conferring my degree on time, that I'm writing my thesis, and I had all these different assignments piling up, and all these different meetings that I had

to attend, and I'm currently also doing an internship at the moment, so I was balancing a schedule with them, and it got to a point where I wasn't really taking care of myself and I wasn't practicing, you know, ways to manage stress in a healthy way. And I just ended up like weakening my immune system to the point where I just eye contract as shingles and I had to take a week off

from school and I still had to attend classes online so I don't get worked down for not participating or not being in class for that day. So now is shingles one of those things where you've probably got three months to live or what's the prognosis here? So shingles is basically like if you had the chicken pox virus, then it stays in your system, and it stays, I think, along, like, your spinal cord within, like, the little, um, neuro, uh, connections, and whatnot that is, like, in your body. So, basically, what happens is, like, that virus can re-ge sometime like within your adulthood,

but it's usually for people like in their later adulthood, like 50, 60 year olds, and it only really happens when you're either of that age, or it's like if you're doing something that your immune system is just like not good, and that's basically where I'm at with my stress levels. So, like, I've been getting sick very frequently, like more frequent than I've ever had in, like, undergraduate, I would say,

like, I think like every month I've got, like, some kind of head cold or some kind of fever going on, and then, like, yeah, so I ended up getting some spots in my back and I'm like oh what the hell is this? Is this like a spider bite or something? So I leave it alone and then it starts like burning and itching and I'm like okay this is not normal and then lower the hold two more spots emerge near that spot I start freaking out I'm like I gotta go to the hospital and say, I gotta see my primary care physician, and they're like, yeah, that's shingles. What are you doing that you've contracted it? You don't see those 20-something year olds,

and I'm just like, yeah, I've been really stressed out and gave my schedule, and they're like, yeah, you look very stressed out from like hearing your schedule and they're like, yeah, you look very stressed out from the look, from like, you know, like hearing your schedule and everything. So I had to take a week off and it's not a big deal. Like the only problem is it's like it can re-emerge. Like if you're stressed out again, like to that degree and all it really is, it's like I just have like a really gross scar. And that's it.

This is why we don't vaccinate our children. And this is why Obamacare has failed us. We have a ringing endorsement from Maggie herself. I know Maggie is a big, big conservative white female. So thank you for that endorsement. I've been trying to get that point across for weeks on this podcast We joke if you couldn't tell Let's let's talk a little bit more about this this idea this concept of

The the people that you're surrounded with in grad school So for you and your program did you find that the grad community was was welcoming to you? What were some of the group dynamics you found amongst the people within your cohort or your program? So I feel like I've had good experiences with some of the people that I've met throughout my time in my graduate program, but the thing is it's like for my cohort specifically

going into it, I felt is it's like for my cohort specifically going into it. I felt that there's like a very political dynamic in there. Like there's very much like a hierarchical structure of these are the higher status people aka the PhDs and then here are the measly master students on the bottom because they're not as intelligent as us, nor are they more like, what's the word? Like, they're not as invested as us in pursuing a higher education degree.

Like, it's okay. And then you had me who was still considered an undergrad technically going into a small afraid, not really expecting what was to come. And I felt like initially like a lot of people didn't really include me in anything. Like I would hear about events where graduate students would get together and like hang out and stuff, but for the most part I was left out of the loop and it wasn't until this year like they started to include me more things but I think it was more to save face for the newer people that were coming in to start their programs and their degrees but aside from that I mean I've been able to make a lot of friends that were outside of my specific cohort so

I was able to make friends that were in different psychology programs and whatnot. So it wasn't all too bad, but it's just something I've noticed that people get a little too, they can get a little feisty about what they're pursuing and how in what high regard they hold themselves, I would say. Yeah, absolutely. Grad school, from my experience

can be really clicky at times. It's funny. I had it really thought about this conversation until just now when you were talking, but I was getting a ride home. So my experience in grad school last year wasn't completely similar to that because we were all just master students.

There wasn't, you know, there wasn't this, there were people who were just on like the one-year track, people were on the two-year track, etc. but there wasn't this huge hierarchy dynamic. But I was getting a ride home from a friend and she was talking about how there's definitely like this inner circle in inner grad school program. And I was like, oh yeah, that's true because I'd felt that too. And I'm used to being on the outside of most social groups,

but I was asking my friend, so who do you think is like the center of the social group? And she was like, oh, you definitely are. And I was, I don't know, I was just kind of taking it back because I've never really considered myself to be at the center of any social group. But long story short, yeah, it's definitely clicky. There are oftentimes hierarchies

as you described in your situation. I don't know, it's easy to say this being on the outside, but I think a lot of it is just pick up your confidence levels and then kind of go in there and do what you want to do. Get out of the program, get out of the experience what you need Moving forward and that's something that's really easy to say when you're a year removed from the experience, but hopefully that can act as some advice for others who might be considering a grad programmer who are about to jump into it.

Let's briefly touch on this concept of networking. So what are some of the either spoken or unspoken rules of grad school and networking within it? I think there's a lot of unspoken rules more than verbally dictated. You're definitely given a set of expectations when you first get into your year. They say, what do we expect you to be in contact with your advisors and peers and what not, we expect you to do these different formal things, which makes sense. But I guess, like, communication about your plans and kind of whether they're in line

with what your department expects of you or if they kind of deviate from the kind of plan and expectation they have for you as a student and as a young professional. Like, it's definitely like a big thing. Like, if you're starting some kind of venture or project that's independent of your program, they definitely want to talk to you about that. And they're basically concerned about whether you'll be remaining interested in the general program that you're in or not. So that was like a lot of my experience where I was starting my internship and I just wanted

to communicate that, oh, I have to like get out to this area right here, which is like 20 something miles away from where my school is, and I have to go in for orientation date. And one of my, one of the faculty members, they were like, no, absolutely not. You can't, like, you have to communicate with them that you need to be in school and like, you can't do it. And I'm like, okay, great. So I'm wrong for trying to pursue something that's like more in the applied direction. And you know, the communicate that, oh, we just don't want you to prioritize like an internship over your program. And I'm thinking, well, isn't the program preparing me for a more applied field and isn't a good, if I

gardener that experience, but it's just such a myth of alignment. So I guess one of those unspoken rules is that you have to kind of communicate in a way what your plans are. And if it's something that's coming up, then you have to definitely communicate that to them and they need to know about it. And you just got to make sure that you have people who are supportive of your mentors, I would say. Yeah, absolutely.

Communication is something that I think we all wish we were better at and it's really frustrating to work at. Work with people who, maybe they're not necessarily not good at communicating, but they just have completely different communication styles from you and they don't necessarily establish the expectations for that communication style. So that's definitely something that I don't know, I don't recall dealing with that at Tunnel as a Grass School, but definitely starting my first full-time job and my first year as it, or at it. Yeah, communication is, with some people, it's just like super easy, you're on the same

page, everything makes sense. A lot of things you don't even have to say. And then other people, it's like pulling teeth to try to, I don't know, get on the same page as them because things that you thought they knew about two months ago, you're just finding out they've never even heard of. Yeah, it's really tough, especially when people just aren't clear with their expectations. Let's finish up here with just kind of some more like not necessarily logistics nuts and bolts, but What are I have a laundry list a mile long of things I could say for this, but what are some of the things that you have had to sacrifice?

You know being a being a master student It definitely had to sacrifice a lot of hobbies that I enjoy, so things like art, things like I guess sewing, cosplay, stuff that I've been really passionate about, things that have kind of been a part of my character. I had to give up just to make sure that I'm getting a degree and that kind of left me empty throughout the year where I felt like I wasn't really myself and I didn't have an identity outside of school and that's very difficult. So I feel like you're kind of sacrificing your identity when you're a graduate student and like you're kind of stripped away of these outside influences and it's all about how many academic papers you can memorize and

turn out and what that. So definitely had to give up that. I definitely had to start filling in my free time with more things that I work here towards things like job searching and of course like networking and being able to get your name out and your free time basically becomes time for basically like building your brand as a graduate student and as a budding young professional in the field and making sure that you know you're attending all these dinners that you get invited to all these different events that you're coming around to these talks and you sometimes like have the drop weekend plans to make it to something

and you have to just like constantly be available. So I feel like I think I've got a lot of my free time, a lot of my hobbies and I really had to get into that mindset of like I'm in school, this is my life, I go to school, I eat at school, I sometimes sleep at school, it's yeah. I'm glad you mentioned the free time aspect because I can definitely recall whether it's undergrad or grad school when you have quote unquote free time feeling like if you're not using it to advance your grad school

situation or your career or professional development, you feel like it's just a complete waste of time and you feel like you're falling behind everyone else. And that's definitely been a mental kind of a physical adjustment for me since finishing grad school is when I have free time is like not being afraid to just read a book because it's fun not necessarily because it's informative on the world of my career or what I'm interested in academically. I don't think I maybe won over Christmas, but I don't recall reading any books for fun, while I was in grad school. I was already only doing about half of the reading.

I was supposed to be doing for classes, so there's no way I was gonna be reading books for fun. But you definitely, look, you wanna have that balance because you don't wanna just go to work or go to school from nine to five, and then outside of that just be, I don't know, playing video games the whole time and then jump back into it, but you definitely for your own mental health need to be able to find that balance between doing some things for, you know, your,

your, your academic career, your professional career, but also just doing things for fun. Like, I spent Memorial Day hiking in Virginia just because I could get away because I had three days off and that's something that I don't know, not that you absolutely exclusively have to give that sort of thing up in grad school, but your opportunities to do that will be a lot less and you probably won't feel very at peace with yourself when you're doing something that's completely unrelated. So yeah, that's a really good point. I'm glad you brought that up. Last, my last question for you here is kind of the big question here.

And hopefully it'll be helpful to anybody who's listening in your opinion What are the biggest things a person should ask themselves or do research on before they commit to a graduate program? I would say definitely research on how much time it would generally take to do work and ask yourself if you have that time to kind of hunker down and really get that work done because it's a really big, thing that you can like find the time So do you have any like outstanding obligations? I might get in the way of that because if so then it might take a little longer to get Your degree done and everything like there's definitely nothing wrong with that and I guess you're just like asking yourself like do you really need to go to grad school like for the I guess you're just like asking yourself, like, do you really need to go to grad school,

like for the, I guess, career trek that you're, that you're gunning for? So if you're doing something in your field, do you feel that it's relevant for you or if it's beneficial for you to have a graduate degree under your belt? Because more often than not, especially in today's job market and everything, it's very much, I would say it's very, it's not as important

as it used to be where if you want to go to a specific sect of your potential career field that you might need, like a higher educational degree and whatnot, but at the same time, like there's so many opportunities now in the job market where you can kind of make it with a bachelor's degree or you can apply your knowledge and skills and abilities that you've picked up with your bachelor's degree and to a completely different fetal that might be perfect for you and that you really don't want to budge out of because you feel like you can grow in wherever you are. So it's like a really big option if you feel that graduate school is an intermediate step between you and your career goals or you feel like graduate school is like that necessary

step to get to where you need to get to. That and I feel like, do you feel like your mental state allows for you to pursue graduate school? Because it's such a, it's such a taxing process to do graduate work, I would say that if you, I don't know, if you have like some kind of disposition to not focus on work as much or you have that kind of disposition where you get easily distracted or easily frustrated, then you might want to take those extra precautions to make sure that when you are faced with those like more tumulus times and those more like stressful nights of having to cram all these different papers or cram all this information for an exam that you're going to be you're going to have the ability to do it instead of like you know failing out of a class or having to redo a quarter or a semester. I think it's really important to kind of think about those things,

and in terms of like graduate programs, it might be good to just research the school in general and kind of see. I don't know if there's like different resources online where you can just kind of see like what people are saying, what people are saying about the program that they've been in, or if there's any kind of like anecdotal evidence of a person who's been part of that program, or it's easy to just kind of ask around with friends and family and even faculty if you can be connected with someone who's currently in that program. I find that's really helpful too. a lot of people that are interested in my program outside of school and I've like basically gave them the rundown and like listen. It's really difficult. It's nothing like undergrad. So it's really good to get that insider's perspective, especially like it's way more

helpful to unbiased because sometimes people that's like, no, I'm not graduate school. Graduate school is like my whole world, which is nothing wrong with that. But I feel like it just doesn't really capture that other side of it where it's like there is that stress, there is that potential for burning out. And yeah, that's what I would say on the matter. Yeah, absolutely.

And I don't know. I definitely relate this to my current role as an administrator right now, and when I try to attract students to my university, say, look, if you really think that this is something you're interested in, come in, visit a class, and talk to students, and we luckily have programs in place for students who are able to do that. Obviously, most, you're not going to be able to probably go to a graduate class, although I suppose that depends on the program. But I think most programs that I'm aware of would be happy to put a student from their

program in touch with you to just have a conversation, talk about that. It's a little bit more work on the front end, but it definitely pays off. In the long run, and it can save you a lot of frustration, a lot of pain, and then on top of that, a lot of money, absolutely, as well. Great thing. If you're working at a company, there's a chance

that they might pay for you to go get your masters, your MBA or what have you. But for a lot of students who are just graduating undergrad and going into grad school, it's probably going to cost you a lot of money and something that, that even I was fortunate to get a solid academic scholarship through the school for my graduate program, but a lot of students are just kind of left high and dry on that, and then on top of that with a new tax bill that just came out, it makes paying for your graduate degree even more difficult so I was I I don't know I glad that I did my degree when I did because I feel like I don't know once you get that taste of Of work and if you have a family and stuff then it can be really difficult to go back and I don't envy the people Who I was in my program with who were on like the four-year track because that just I don't know that seems That seems miserable more miserable than what the one-year track, because that just, I don't know, that seems miserable,

more miserable than what the one-year track was like. But yeah, there are a lot of things to weigh and to consider before you commit to a graduate program. You don't have to just kind of be firing blanks. There are steps that you can take to get a better idea of what your life would be like before you commit to that program. Oh, man. We're at 35 minutes, Maggie.

Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. And this was all really helpful, really far enough. I actually have some friends who both at the undergraduate level and just people in my professional life who are thinking of going to grad school. So hopefully this will serve as a, I don't know, a helpful half hour discussion for them. Do you have anything that you want to plug, Anything that's coming up for you or any any big summer plans? What's what's going on in your life post graduation? Post graduation. I'm just kind of gonna decompress, rekindle my love for all the hobbies that I had to kind of leave in the corner to abandon them,

but they're just kind of sitting there like hey Maggie we're going to do some travel too so that'll be nice when I have on my radar right now is Arizona and Japan basically the same yes how did you pick those two places um, because I have friends down there who are attending ASU right now, and I absolutely felt in love with the state when I went there this winter, and a lot of people tell me is that yes, you will fall in love with it in the winter because it's so nice and warm, but in the summer it just gets uncomfortably hot but that's okay. So I'm gonna go down there kind of hike, boulder, do some desert exploring so that'll be fun. And Japan because I have a friend who is attending a conference there and they offer to bring me as a plus one and kind of join in and see what is going on there.

Plus it's been my dream and I've been researching for years as to like where I would like to visit in Japan. I'm very excited. Are you getting your flights paid for that? I am going to be paying for my flight for Arizona by myself and for Japan. I have frequent miles that I could use to kind of subsidize the cost. Okay, all right. Well that sounds like a lot of fun actually. I've never... I don't think I've ever been to Arizona in the summer. I have obviously heard the same thing that it's just crazy hot. The one nice thing that you hear about it though is that it's a dry heat and so you I'm sure you still sweat But it's not like I mean it's I'm sitting here in my living room and it's probably 82 83 degrees outside

But it's a hundred percent humidity and it's it's just like I'm just sweating and that's the way it is and you get out of the shower And you might as well not have a towel because it's not really going to help at all. So hopefully Arizona is nicer than I what what month are you on to Japan? I'm going I would say end of July and I've heard that it gets really hot there too. That would be great just like very hot destinations, but I know the good thing about aeronautos is that the temperature drops at night, so they're like in like a cool 60-70s, so it's very comfortable just walking around there, I would say. And in Japan, I'm not too sure about what the night temperature is like, but I think it might be a little humid there, but I don't think

as comparable Chicago's humidity. Sure. Yeah. I'm sure it depends on where you go as well, because, you know, it's like Japan one second you can be on the beach and then, you know, a couple hour drive and you're up in the mountains and I'm sure that the climates and the temperatures are completely different. I've never never been to Asia but I've heard good things so you'll have to go there come back and then give us an in-depth report on the status of the country. Well, Meg, you thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, another thesis. That's what I want from you.

Adding the stress levels. Thank you so much for, for coming on the podcast. Yeah, it was a pleasure. Absolutely. We'll, we'll have you stick around for one second here and, and we'll connect real quick after I wrap it up. But thank you to the listeners out there. You can find us on YouTube, SoundCloud, iTunes, wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you have any questions, concerns, grievances that you want to air, you can email us at beantown podcast at Yahoo.com that's beantown B-E-A-N-T-O-W-N podcast Yahoo.com We're on Twitter at beantowncast. Next week we're gonna have another special guest.

It's going to be lit. It's going to be mental. I don't know what we're gonna talk about. And then there's been rumors that maybe Joaquin will come back. Maggie, you know Joaquin, don't you? From from the Paul housing services? Oh, yeah. We have a history with what, Ken, on this podcast. So stay, stay tuned for that. Yeah. I'll let you know after we wrap up here. 40 minutes. That's a good time. That's a Jesus number. 40 days, 40 nights, very religious podcast. Thank you all for tuning in. Enjoy your first week of June, and I will check in on you next week.