Beef And Dairy Network - Episode 60 - Tilly and Davey

Episode Date: June 25, 2020

Isy Suttie, Emily Lloyd-Saini and Anna Leong Brophy join in for this episode in which we grapple with the education system. Is the UK failing Tilly and Davey?By Benjamin Partridge, Isy Suttie, Emily Lloyd-Saini and Anna Leong Brophy.

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For 10% off your next order of Mega Bean, use the code SCORCHMEBABY. Hello and welcome to the Beef and Dairy Network podcast, the number one podcast for those involved or just interested in the production of beef animals and dairy herds. The Beef and Dairy Network podcast is the podcast companion to the Beef and Dairy Network website and printed magazine, brought to you by Megabean. Now, I don't usually like to talk about my personal life on the podcast. This isn't about me. It's about you, the brave foot soldiers giving everything as you go over the top, day after day, on the front line of beef. But this month's podcast requires some personal context from me. Ten months ago, after years spent trying to meet women at beef industry barn dance events, and after a string of failed dates and a number of instances of identity theft using the dating app Beef Encounters, I met Margaret. I bumped into her at the library,

and she dropped her pile of books. We both knelt down to pick them up and in doing so she accidentally kneed me hard in the face, breaking my nose and fracturing my eye socket. But even as I looked at her through my one good eye as a maxillofacial surgeon began explaining how he'd used a titanium ball to reconstruct my cheekbone, I knew she was the one. In fact, we got married as soon as I was able to blow my nose without my new cheek coming loose. The only bump in the road so far has been her two children, my now stepchildren Tilly, five, and Davy, seven. No matter how much effort I put in, I can't seem to get through to them. For instance, they refuse to

call me by my name, and instead refer to me only as the man. Also, they are in my eyes unreasonably obsessed with their father, Alan the Unfaithful Fireman. But, as the old Dutch saying goes, when a new bull is squiring the mother, the calves will wreak havoc upon the pasture. is squiring the mother, the calves will wreak havoc upon the pasture. So this is my first experience of being responsible for children, and it has opened my eyes to the woefully inadequate schooling that children in this country receive. So, when their headteacher, Mrs Davenport, wanted to speak to me over the phone about their progress, I saw an opportunity for some pioneering gotcha journalism, which will surely net me, if not a Pulitzer Prize, a commendation certificate at the Beefin Media Awards,

this year being hosted at Yarborough Ledger Centre in Lincoln. Hello, it's Paula... The reason Mrs Davenport wanted to speak to me was that, according to her, the children had drawn some pictures which had given her cause for concern. As you'll hear, I went along with it for a while before turning up the heat and asking some pressing questions about the state of education today. This term we've been exploring feelings and, you know, not bottling up feelings and how to let them out.

They did a project called Mum and Dad dad that each one of their pictures you know it had sunshine on it and tilly's had um a unicorn and then they both did one called the man um which i can only really assume was about you um well one of them is is not suitable to be displayed is it because um tilly has also included a unicorn on that one? And I know as an educational establishment, and I've been trying to drum this into her myself, the unicorn is a mythical beast. It's not, you know, we shouldn't be teaching children

that there are animals out there like the unicorn. You know, there are people making efforts to try and create unicorns in labs across Europe. But as far as I'm aware, they haven't been successful so far. I've been trying to drum it into T you that a lot of the animals she draws actually are complete fabrications of her mind oh is that is that why you were ringing because I think that is something to worry about I think you're right I think that is something we need to focus on something you need to focus on and stop her drawing these mythical beasts and starting drawing the farmyard animals that um that she should be drawing frankly I, and this is something that I've cemented throughout my training,

I really believe that if they want to draw unicorns, they can draw unicorns. If they want to draw a unicorn with three horns, or if they want to draw a half chicken, half pig, then that's great. You know, their imaginations are soaring, and this is the time to really nurture their creativity. Because later on in life, who knows what Tilly and Davy will be when they're older.

And I think Tilly certainly has a passion for drawing. She might be an artist or maybe an art teacher. If Tilly grew up to be the first agricultural scientist who managed to create the half pig, half chicken, I would be delighted. And I feel like as an educational establishment, you should also be delighted at the idea that one of your children should go on to merge two of the meats. That would be one of the biggest scientific breakthroughs of the 21st century so far. And so to talk that down and instead to promote the idea that they should be drawing, you know, which adds nothing to the common knowledge of mankind, is very, very disturbing to me.

Right, okay. You seem to have a great passion for meat. Shared by Tilly and davey uh no no doubt well i don't they do seem to be mentioning meat more and more to maybe maybe quite a disturbing level especially for davey he started playground games for example where he he wants everyone to be a herd of cows and he wants to pick the weakest cow and stun it before it's taken to the slaughterhouse. I just wondered if you'd witnessed anything like this, because I know that you run some sort of newsletter for pork farmers.

I'm sure that does keep you very busy. Okay, sorry, I'm going to stop you there. It's not a newsletter it's a network and it's for people who are interested in the production of beef animals and dairy herds not pork i i i respect pork but i know about as much about it as the next man so beef beef it's a beef network anyway, look, I still don't really understand what your problem is with these pictures. Both children, although they're in separate classes, did very similar drawings, which all of us at the school found a bit concerning, really. In the pictures, they're with their mom and dad and there's someone who

looks like you kind of leaning in behind with claws as if to take their mom away so kind of gripping her shoulder with this maniacal grin on your face. So hang on, when you say mum and dad, you mean my wife Margaret and Alan? Yes, I mean their parents. You're their stepdad. That's right, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. So hang on, in the drawing, Margaret and Alan are, what, smiling at each other? Absolutely. Because that's a fiction. That's a fiction.

Let me tell you that. Well, I'm not party to the ins and outs of any relationship between... Believe me, if I started to open that door, I don't know where it would lead. Well, I could tell you some things. For a start, there wasn't enough ins and outs from uh from from margaret's point of view that's sorry that's not that's not that's not right it's not right that you're mentioning that not no no thank you thank you we don't talk about that and i don't talk about that so what's worrying about it is so as i said that margaret and alan their parents uh and and

dave davey and tilly are baking a cake and they're they're very very good drawings especially tilly she's only five it's very detailed they've got flour eggs and so on and in both of them just take me through the uh the ingredients of the cake there you mentioned flour and eggs anything else uh i've got them in front of me let me see so tilly's has flour spelt f-l-o-w-e-r but we we certainly won't worry about that very very pleased to tell that she's had an attempt at even writing that's amazing and then two eggs and there is what looks like i think is supposed to be a pile of sugar and let's say that's it and a beef sorry beef sorry i didn't i is there any is she drawing any beef and any beef has she drawn any beef any beef beef Any beef? Beef.

Beef. Beef. Beef. Beef. Beef. Has she drawn any beef? No, no, she hasn't. No, she hasn't drawn any beef.

Why would she draw beef if they're making a cake? Because they're making a beefcake. No, it's a regular cake okay okay no beef okay yeah um sure as i said the disturbing thing is this figure and there's an arrow saying the man on both of their drawings actually pointing at this figure um on tilly's he's got this clawed hand reached out to to her mum and in the other hand he's holding aloft what looks like and i'm sure you'll be very pleased about this a piece of beef great yes yes there we are. Yeah, and it does look like a piece of beef. So it's rich in symbolism. I'm quite proud of Tilly actually here, that she's managed to draw a bit of beef there,

and she associates me with beef. I think that's the first step, really, in terms of really cementing our relationship. That's really nice to hear. Well, I think really what we're concerned about is that's a very small detail it's the fact that you're looming towards her mother with an evil look on your face as if you're i mean the reason i know it's you is because they refer to you as the man constantly and also it does actually look a bit like you right so so what's happening in davy's drawing um davy so this is a really this is a really kind of more surreal one i suppose so davy and tilly and and their parents uh were all in a

hot air balloon and then it must be you because there's an arrow saying the man again are looming towards them with a pin as if to pop the hot air balloon and in your other hand is I mean what I can only really describe is looking like a cow's hoof or leg with blood coming out of it and it's it the blood is falling like rain onto um onto them all i mean is that something that that concerns you or is this i mean are we crazy for thinking this is i want i want to be reassured well you know i'm not a psychologist uh and neither are you um no but but i i think you know i've not seen the drawing but from your description i would say what what davy is depicting there is he felt that alan his biological father was was was was kidnapping his mother uh in a hot air balloon that that's what

he's worried about uh is is Alan coming back and kidnapping his mother and indeed his sister and himself and taking them away in a hot air balloon like some kind of dastardly Sherlock Holmes villain. And what he's drawn there is me coming to save them by taking that hot air balloon out of the sky and taking them home again. So I'm heartened to hear he thinks

I'm some sort of superhero kind of character who can fly up in the air and take down a hot air balloon. Pop a hot air balloon and sprinkle blood from a recently slaughtered cow onto them. Well, I think probably in the drawing there, the blood from the cow leg is meant to be directed at Alan, you know, as a kind of punishment for what he's done. Alan. I mean, Alan is part of the family here at school. The idea that he would deserve to have animal blood rained on him for this can't... The way that Davy, when Davy even says his dad, he says,

my dad, in a different voice. And I'm only telling you this. Okay, what kind of voice does he use when he talks about me? With me, I imagine there's a kind of deep respect coming through the voice. I'd say it's more of a grunt. Like, the man. The man. Almost a whispered grunt interesting the man yeah yeah well i could tell you things about alan let me tell you i mean i can tell you things about alan too and i can tell you

that he has presented a check to the school that he and his friends have raised at the fire station. I can tell you that he's done talks here, many talks. I can tell you that he's a kind man with sandy hair and light blue eyes. Let me tell you something about Alan. All the ladies in the office seem to suddenly be wearing skirts on a day that Alan's coming in. That's all I'll say. Yeah, well, that's no coincidence because he's probably texted them and told them that because behind the back of his partner, he's, I mean, if there are any secretaries in the school, watch out because he's an absolute

hound for a secretary. Well, I don't think they'd mind. I don't think they'd mind. Oh, so you're happy with your primary school is some sort of private bordello for a local fireman we all love alan we all love alan oh i bet you do listen can we just go back to talking about the the kids please nothing you said so far has really given me that much cause for concern so i'm not really sure what the problem is there are two things really there's there's their growing obsession i'd say with meat really and then also they seem very tired every other week for example there was a sports day and tilly actually fell asleep in a pile of sacks before the sack race i don't know if you if you've noticed anything or you can shed any light on that. This is your fault.

And I'll tell you for why. Tilly and Davy split their time between my household, which I run with their mother, Margaret, who you'll have met at parents' evening. We're now married. And as such, the children are under my purview. But it's a week-on-week-off arrangement with another household, the household of their biological father, Alan.

Oh, Alan. Oh, yeah. Why are you so obsessed with Alan? He very kindly came in to do a talk about being a fireman, and you can just imagine the children's interest and excitement it was absolutely amazing i don't know if you've if you've seen him do this talk he actually at the end he pretends to rescue a cat from a tree which is just oh he's yeah as i've said i can tell you some things about alan that will very swiftly change your mind about the man. You know, I can't be explicit about this, but let's just say that over 65% of the fires that Alan puts out were started by Alan. I find that very hard to believe.

I mean, the way that he spoke to the children, he got some of them to pretend to be a fire waving orange and yellow scarves. I mean, I really can't imagine this man, what, sneaking up with a box of matches to a barn and throwing one at... No, not for even. Oh no, the barn's on fire. Who can help? Oh, I can. Alan the Fireman. Oh, look, I've put it out.

Oh, what a hero I am. If only people knew the truth. Well, I... And you you the idea that you think a suitable careers talk for the children is something that would encourage them to run into burning buildings well have you ever seen children around a fire engine put it that way they absolutely love it they want to get behind the steering wheel they want to set off the siren, and they've got so many questions about what it's like to use the hose and how powerful is it. I mean, I understand why...

I've got no doubt they ask questions about what it's like to use a hose. Do they ask the more pertinent questions, what it's like to be embroiled in the backdraft of an inferno? I think in the same way as it's all right for them to draw unicorns, maybe it's all right to just think about the hose. Anyway, they stay with Alan half the time. You know, I don't know what ideas

he's putting in their heads. And then when they stay with me, I'm afraid that I feel that the time the children spend outside of school, I'm having to pick up a lot of slack because I ask them, what did you learn today? They will say, oh, we learned about some rubbish. I don't know, we drew a centipede or some guff like that. And I say, right, well, you've had your fun. Now it's

time to do some learning. And you learn through work. And we're very privileged to be living next to a working dairy farm and both Teddy and Davy almost every evening they spend in my household they're there next door hosing the shite off the uh of the milking parlor well no wonder they like using the hose well that's a good use of a hose that's a non-dangerous use of a hose well I think that explains what time do they what time they normally go to bed then i think we might be getting to the crux of the problem here well the final milking session starts around seven and that might take a couple of hours so that's until nine then they sort of get the cows out and take them up to the pasture and sometimes into the

sheds and then so they probably start hosing at about half past nine and there's a lot of shite on that milking parlour. Some of it quite ingrained, which is strange because obviously it's cleaned every night, but it really, it dries rock hard very quickly. And so they'll give it a hose

and then they're probably chipping off the worst of it then probably until one or two a.m. Right. Okay. I think it's starting to make sense. Are they at your house this week? Yes.

I mean, yes, they're probably making their way home from school now as we speak. And then they'll have their tea, then do some exercises that I've set them, do some book work, learning about different bovine illness. Are they learning about the project we're doing at the moment? The Romans? Yes. Well, no. Right. learning about different um bovine they're learning about the project we're doing at the moment the romans yes well no right because that's what they're supposed to be doing every night at the moment every night they're supposed to be eating as romans and acting as romans would and then writing their thoughts um have you done anything on the romans this week tilly was quite worried that she'd get in trouble um we had a go at it, some of the dressing up stuff. So a couple of nights ago, Tilly was making a racket and saying,

oh, I have to dress as a Roman senator. And so in the end, Margaret gave in. It tends to be Margaret. And, you know, we let her dress up in a toga. We used a bed sheet and we created a toga. And I said, well, you know, you'll soon see why we don't wear togas anymore, Tilly. And she didn't know what I meant. But once she was there in the milking parlour, blasting the shite off the walls with the hose,

you know, that white toga wasn't white for very long, let's put it that way. And by the end, she was basically wearing a sort of sopping, shit-en sheet and to be fair to you it was a good lesson to her I said look look how impractical this uh this toga was when you know normally you'd be wearing your waterproof dungarees and so in that way I understand I guess that was the lesson you were you were trying to teach them really is that back in the old days we hadn't yet worked out the best things to wear and so we were fanning around with sheets and and what have you it's it's no it's not exactly that really it's um so i'm sorry i'm finding it very hard to listen to all this being being a vegan it's something that's very distressing for me to think about really the idea that animals are eaten. So please bear that in mind. Well, they're not being eaten in the milking parlour.

Yes, but you've talked about... I mean, I'm sure a small amount of a kind of fecal backsplash finds its way into the children's digestive system. But, you know, really, isn't that just giving them the strong immune response that is required in the modern world? I think they might have some sort of developmental problem or syndrome. Right. That stops them from creating a familial bond with adults.

Okay. Like myself. As hard as I'm trying, i don't feel like i'm ever really making a connection with them so i think there's something wrong with them do you see what i mean i can't say that i do actually and having seen them obviously alan comes to pick them up sometimes and their mum when i see them with their their parents, if you will, they seem completely normal, very happy, very buoyant. I think that Davey can be a bit sensitive, but to be honest, it often seems to be on the weeks that he's stayed with you. He came in on his birthday and he'd been

very excited the day before and saying that he was going to get a Hot Wheels toy car garage and it would be the first non-meat based present that you'd ever bought him he was so excited and then he was in floods of tears all day he wouldn't even go outside to play even though we said we'd let him play the game where he picked the weakest cow in the herd um because you'd bought him a thermometer that you as he said stick in a cow's arse to see if it is with calf yes that that was his birthday present yes well I don't think that's suitable and he brought it in and it looked like it had been used. I mean, had it?

Yes, because if you get one from new, the cows can feel uncomfortable because there's a kind of coldness to the metal. Whereas once one that's been really well worn over a couple of years, it develops a kind of patina, which actually makes it much more comfortable for the cow so it's actually an act of respect to the pregnant or maybe non-pregnant cow depending on how the reading comes out and actually that thermometer I gave him was my own cow ass thermometer that was given to me by my father which was given to

him by his grandfather so when he was crying when I gave it to him I assumed that was because he felt the weight of history on his shoulders well no I'm afraid it he felt the weight of disappointment on his shoulders and I mean I've grown very fond of Davey and to the point where I actually went out and bought him the garage that he initially wanted as if he was my son I don't feel that's a suitable present and nor do the governors and i'm sorry that i've had to to put it to them i said do you think this is suitable they all said no the one of them was nearly sick you seem to if you don't mind me saying so have a low grip on reality i can see that you're in your own world with the pork magazine and it's a beef it's beef it's beef the beef and dairy network oh well i. It's beef. It's beef. The Beef and Dairy Network.

Oh, well, I mean, it's all the same, isn't it? Meat is meat. But really, I mean, you've got to see that when you step outside the farm into the real world, it's not a priority for people. And what's more, it's's actually very very disturbing for the other children in the class to see that I I feel uncomfortable with a thermometer that you say has been handed down for generations so presumably has been in hundreds of animals anuses I won't say the word that that he said uh arsed I don't like that word and it won't be used in school. I mean, I think it's important to talk about reproduction at some point,

but is it suitable for children to have an object which is used in such a rudimentary way? So you're a prude? Oh, well, I wouldn't say that. I've got a child. How do you think that came about? If we're going to get down to the nitty gritty. Okay, well, I wouldn't say that. I've got a child. How do you think that came about? If we're going to get down to the nitty gritty? Okay, well, yeah, sure. I mean, who knows? Well, I'll tell you. Came about on a Friday night after a bottle of Prosecco and watching sliding doors. There. Right. Davey did actually tell me that a local vet came to talk

to the children. And I was quite heartened to hear that. And so to give you some credit, at least you are opening their minds somewhat to a life in agriculture. Yes, the vet. I don't know if you've met the vet. He's a real character. And he comes in and he wears a top hat for some reason I don't know why anyway he's very funny he's a lot like Alan he does the talk it's just a gentle introduction you know oh this puppy has hurt its paw how do you think she did it and the children will say well did the puppy step on a

thorn and then he'll he'll just show them how to bandage it up and and then they can stroke the puppy and hold it it's absolutely wonderful and it's a real a really good introduction into what it's like being a vet yeah well when when davey told me that um he'd had a talk from a vet i was very encouraged by that yeah but then i started asking davey about what exactly he'd learned from the vet yeah and as far as I can tell, and you can confirm or deny this, there was no mention of blue tongue, fog fever, no mention of bovine TB, rumen acidosis, calf scour, rift valley fever,

cowpox, pseudo cowpox, wooden tongue, forest eye, udder rot, liver fluke? I don't remember the... It wasn't really that kind of talk. And to be honest, I think that those... I mean, those terms wouldn't really ignite the children's imagination in the way they seem to ignite yours. I mean, I have to say that it's much better for children to see a cat with what's wrong with

little sniffles you know that then hear about something like forest eye well it'll be interesting to um see what the the podcast listeners make of what you've been saying what do you mean what podcast what do you mean so i've been recording this uh this call um because i well it's a bit of gotcha journalism really to show people uh what's going on in the modern british school system and how little respect it has for beef and um this will be part of a beef and dairy network podcast that's listened to by many people across the world. And it'll be interesting to see what they have to say about what they've heard. No, it's not right. You can't just record it. This is a phone call. Yep. And I've just plugged it into my little machine.

And, yep, it'll be sent out next week. No, no, no, no, no. This isn't right. I mean, I would hope that anyone listening would see that children should be allowed to draw unicorns and not have to stick a thermometer up a cow's anus i'm very very cross that you're that you've been recording me and i've spoken about watching sliding doors and drinking prosecco before baby making that's not something that i want the parents to know well i'm sorry but you know I'm a journalist and I'm a whistleblower. And this phone call will be broadcast. You're a very odd, creepy, morally bankrupt man.

OK? OK? OK? OK? okay okay you'll be hearing from the board of confidence about this well our lawyer the esteemed john says it's fine okay well please can you take the bit out about sliding doors i don't want low i don't want anyone to hear that please can you take out the bit about sliding doors that's all i ask i personally don't see what you've got to be ashamed of of there but i don't want anyone to know about that side of me it's something that i keep zipped

up it's something that is private do you think the children would think of you differently if they knew that you were spending your friday nights you know watching paltrow films and getting um getting lashed up no it's not what I do every Friday night. And it's not just Gwyneth Paltrow films, but that is something that's private to me. I also like Keira Knightley films. Let's just leave all that. Is it always Prosecco?

It's sometimes Rose. Actually, Rose Prosecco is the best, but my husband doesn't like it. So we have to open a bottle each and then it gets wasted. But this is absolutely by the by. It's not something that is part of my professional life I don't like intercourse to be talked about it's something that happens between the sheets and it stays between the sheets thank you very much okay well um mrs davenport thank

you very much for talking to the podcast and um speak to you again god pretty damning stuff and here's a message for mrs daport. If you're listening and you're thinking of pressing legal charges because I broadcast that private phone call, my lawyer, John Wasabi, says I have a rock-solid defence, which is that I made that phone call as I make all phone calls whilst on a catamaran on international waters. More after this. their self-empowerment and it's told by what feels like your best friend why should someone listen to Minority Corner why not oh my god free stuff

there's not free stuff the listeners of Minority Corner will enjoy some necessary LOLs but mainly a look at what's happening in our world through a colorful lens

people will get the perspective of marginalized communities I feel heard I feel seen like you said you need to understand how to be more proactive

in your community and this is a great way to get started. Join us every Friday on MaxFun or wherever you get your podcasts. Minority Corner. Because together we're the majority. Shocked at the lack of beef-focused education on offer in British schools, I spoke to Gail Jackson and Sophie Beeswater, the pair responsible for the Bovine

Education and Enlightenment Foundation, or BEEF. Their aim is to transform the education system, and central to their work is the creation of a BEEF curriculum, which they are attempting to roll out to schools across the country. I started by asking about Gail's background. Despite being at the forefront of BEEF learning, she herself actually had a remarkably conventional education. I went to Oxford University. I have two degrees there. And I'm ashamed to say that until my late 20s, I had no idea about the necessity of a beef education.

So hang on, in all that time in Oxford, you've got two degrees there. I don't know what you studied, but they didn't cover... Not beef, not beef. Nothing at all. What were you studying there? I studied classics and I studied English literature. I mean, that beggars belief, doesn't it? Because how can someone learn about the classics, especially, and about English literature without the context of beef? I can't think of a single novel in the canon that makes sense unless you have a deep knowledge of the background to those novels, which is the beef industry. I was completely at sea. I mean, I had no idea what it was that was missing until one day I was at an event and we looked out across the field from our high vantage point in the conference room

and I spotted what appeared to me to be a large black and white human being on all fours. And when I questioned a colleague of mine as to what I was seeing, he identified it as a cow. And my mind was blown. So just to be clear, up until that point, what age were you when that happened? You were still in your 20s? Yes, I was 27. Right, so 27 years on the earth, and your nose had been stuck in books for all of that time, to the extent that you didn't even recognise a cow when you saw it with your own eyes.

My brain was too swollen with useless knowledge. Now, when you're reading a novel in the course of your English literature degree, if you were reading a novel and a cow or cattle were mentioned in that novel, what would be the visual image that would be created when you're reading that passage? I assumed it was some kind of Baroque furniture. Right. So, Sophie, I believe that your route into this is basically the opposite. You are a great example of what can happen if you do have that beef education. Is that right? I was working on a dairy farm from the age of four. No conventional education whatsoever. I mean, within beef, there is so much. Because where does beef come from? All over the world. Have I

travelled all over the world? No, I don't need to. When I've got a cow in front of me, I have the world in front of me. So for you, a cow is a gateway to the world's knowledge. Absolutely. Absolutely, without a doubt. Yeah. And when you were a child, you know, at the age of four, obviously, you were oblivious to what other children were doing. But as you got older, you must have realised that other people your age were spending hours every day going to school. Was that something that you ever brought up with your parents? I showed a curiosity once. I wanted to go. I wanted to go. My mum said, fine, you can go.

And I think I lasted around three days. And I just had, it was absolutely, it was a horror show. It was awful. Because it's, you know, it starts well. They bring out the tray of milk in the morning and everyone has a little carton of milk and you think okay we're in the right direction we're in the right direction and they say what noise does a cow make and you say moo and everyone gets it right and you think oh here we go we're set up for the day right and then they start asking you to say things in French. And you think, why? And then this number, add this number. And why? What's that got to do with anything? Are we counting cows? No. So I lasted three days, and I went back to my work on the dairy farm.

Well, that's interesting, because I've been looking at your website, and I'm very impressed by what I see. And I think reading your literature, there is an acceptance that the school system will probably remain. But it's more about reforming that school system itself. And I was very pleased to read through the published beef curriculum that you've got on the website. It makes total sense to me, but I can imagine a lot of the more conventional educators, like the school teachers I've been speaking to recently, will be quite resistant to this. How do you imagine that schools will be persuaded or implored to take up the BEEF curriculum? It's not so much about imploring schools to work with us. That's not really going to get any traction in such a conventional

world of education. What we do at BEEF really is forcibly impose ourselves onto schools. And it is that imposing ourselves that is part of, it's the kind of the start of the curriculum really, isn't it, Gail? Absolutely. We strongly believe that it is right and best for us to infiltrate schools um often with some of the herd and take over um young people's educations wow that's incredible yeah and and the cows themselves are quite central to to the learning you know really you're replacing the teachers who are in the school with a cow is that how it works or do you how are you transforming these classrooms well well there is real there's no real need for a human teacher when um a bovine teacher is available so yes um part of the transformation

is a physical transformation we often get rid of a wall and we make it much more accessible for our bull teachers or cow teachers to enter the room. We get rid of the seating and there's a lot more hands-on work. Beef is a transferable skill. So what you can learn just by laying your hands on the side of a cow, already those children who've been able to be part of that experience can testify to how powerful the education they're receiving is. And of course, it goes much further than that. Your current work focuses on the primary schools and secondary schools of Britain. and when they graduate through from from high school obviously then we have the university system which we've we've we've touched upon with your time at oxford and medical schools and and these kind of things does beef education reach those levels or is it at that point is it okay for someone who's been through a beef education to go to a more conventional institution of higher

education you'll probably find that they won't want to or feel like they need to. Absolutely. Because the learning is so concentrated, you require less. You require less. So with your system, at 18 years old, you can start practising as a doctor straight away, despite having not been to medical school. At 16? 16. Yes. We've got graduates at 16 who are doing incredible work. Yeah, first open heart surgery from a beef graduate only six months ago, I think. Absolutely. Yeah. And the first stages of that open heart surgery were incredibly successful.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, just to be very clear, I feel like from a journalistic point of view, I ought to point out that in a conventional way of thinking, that open heart surgery was a complete failure. Well, the historical oppression of the beef mentality was really to blame, not the student. Because when a student has learned the intricacies of surgery using only a sharpened hoof, the intricacies of surgery using only a sharpened hoof when they're presented with these archaic systems of sterilized scalpels and these small and intricate and frankly useless scientific bits of paraphernalia. It was set up for them to fail. Exactly. There was no gravy. There was no butter. No. There was no hay of any kind. It was actually very, very traumatising for that surgeon. We've had to do a lot of work with them to rebuild

their confidence, but they're ready to go back into the field, the literal field where we do our surgeries. In the next few months, yeah. Now, I think many people will be listening to this interview and frankly panicking, because I think you'd have opened up their eyes and their minds to a whole different way of education. And they'll be looking at their children and thinking, this child doesn't love beef in the way it should. I've put them through conventional education. It's ruined their brain. What would your advice be for those parents now? Is there anything that they can do at this stage? We see that when children especially have no interest in beef, and we have come across that before, we say that when a child has no interest in beef, they have no interest in the

world or themselves. They've lost themselves. And often, if child is um resistant or recalcitrant to the beef re-education we do tend to find that they're not children at all but rather fully grown kiwi lamb dealers there to promote their disgusting lamb agenda. But hang on, these people from New Zealand are, what, dressed up as a child? Yes, absolutely. And they will lie as sleepers, as sleeper agents, within families for years, from birth sometimes. I mean, that's a very, must be a very convincing costume if they're able to, what, pass as a baby. People see what they want to see.

They will continually see past the fact that a middle-aged bearded New Zealander with Ugg boots and a flannel shirt is lying in that cot, is feeding at their breast, they will look past that. Yeah, and I've seen similar things too. I've walked past a family that are just on the street, completely, seemingly minding their own business. And the children are six foot two grown men with Australasian accents. And of course, we know what they are, they're lamb dealers. It's a mum and a dad and two lamb dealers. So sad. Yeah. It's so sad and it's far too common. I wonder if just for a moment I can talk about my own stepchildren, Tilly and Davy.

They go to a local primary school, which if you look at any of the government ratings is deemed to be excellent. But having spoken to the head teacher there and also, you know, seeing the work they're doing, I get the very strong sense that they are just wasting their time at that place. You know, they're being taught to draw a butterfly and they're being taught that, you know, apparently ice is water that has gone hard because it got cold. You know, all this useless stuff that's filling their heads. Is there anything I can do and preferably soon? Well, this sounds quite familiar, doesn't it, Gail? It certainly does. I actually have a son myself. Unfortunately, I am estranged from his father who does not follow the beef way and who, to my dismay, enrolled him in a quote unquote conventional primary school. And they were not teaching him anything about beef, as far as I could tell. Nothing at all.

They were one of the first we approached, actually, with our curriculum, weren't they, Gail? And they were very resistant. We took matters into our own hands. And we, one morning, flooded the school with hot beef gravy. and as the beef gravy swept away and admired the books the pencils the computers the children the teachers all these accoutrements of conventional education as all these things were saturated with gravy. So the children and my son were saturated with the knowledge and love of beef. And since then, they've all been on a beef path. It was absolutely so beautiful to watch, wasn't it? It really was. It was one of our most special infiltrations, I think.

So if there's anything we can do when it comes to your stepchildren? Do you think a flooding would work in this situation? Well, I mean, the proof is in the pudding, isn't it? And we've told you about the pudding. Is that something that you could help me with? Or is this something I need to do on my own? We really encourage and support parents to really take it on their own. That's part of your enlightenment journey too.

But if you need any assistance, any guidance, a big tank full of hot gravy, we think it's a really just cause and we'll be right there beside you. Thanks to Gail and Sophie for that interview. And if you're interested in trying to introduce the beef curriculum as your school, go to the beef website where you can order a pneumatic pummeling rod, which is invaluable when trying to take down the wall of a school to fill the classrooms with cattle. And finally, Mrs Davenport, just a bit of advice. Maybe next week when you go to school, you ought to wear your gravy-proof shoes.

Let's just put it that way. So, that's all we've got time for this month. But if you're after more beef and dairy news, get over to our website now, where you can read all the usual stuff, as well as our off-topic section, where this month we interview the German Chancellor Angela Merkel about her hundred-strong collection of rare towels. So, until next time, beef out. Thanks to Izzy Sooty, Emily Lloyd-Saney and Anna Leong-Brophy. Also, Anna and Emily have their own new podcast, Still Legit. Anna and Emily, what is it about? It's a podcast where we take a look at pop culture

from our youth and examine whether or not it is still legit in light of everything we know now. Right. And how often are things still legit and how often are they not legit? Surprisingly, there's a lot that we let slip. Yeah. Although we did just, we did just review Little Britain and that didn't get such, such a good review. What's the least legit thing that you've covered on the podcast so far? Well, that is definitely up there. Yeah. We did the Sex and the City pilot, which I thought really was going to fail and it did quite well. How do you think this podcast will hold up in 20 years time? fail and it did quite well how do you think this podcast will hold up in 20 years time beef is everlasting it'll be the only podcast alive i think so yeah um so that's still legit where can listeners find that wherever they get their podcasts yeah welcome back to fireside chat

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