Behind the Bastards - Part One: Apollo Quiboloy: The Jeffrey Epstein of the Philippines

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

Robert sits down with Prop to discuss Apollo Quiboloy, the Pentacostal cult leader known as 'the Jeffery Epstein of the Philippines'. (2 Part Series)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You see Costco be like, hey man, don't put me into this shit. We don't sell that baby oil. Hey, hey, hey, look, don't be speaking on my name. Don't be speaking, keep my name out your fucking mouth. I can't believe you tried to throw fucking Costco into the bus. Costco was like, hold up, hold up. This shit you got going is not with us. That is true.

Keep my name out your mouth. See, if I was dead to rights, Hold up, hold up. This shit you got going is not with us. That is, keep my name out your mouth. See, if I was dead to rights and only lying about Costco could get me off, I would take the fall for Costco. I mean, yeah. What did Costco do to you except for provide? Costco's done so much for me. Exactly.

Mostly provide me with olives, but you know. I feel like if there's somebody that you don't go after in America, it's Costco. I feel like it's the closest thing we have. Costco and the post office, like that's what we have as like beloved institutions in this country. Honestly, yes. Like, what have they done wrong except for provide to us

everything that feeds our decadence. Like this is all, this is, it's the most American thing. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, hey, you want some mayonnaise? Why don't you get a drum of it? Personally, I don't enjoy it. Be an American and get a drum of it. I don't enjoy going to Costco because the aisles are really high and as a drum of it? Personally, I don't enjoy- Be an American and get a drum of it. I don't enjoy going to Costco

because the aisles are really high and as a person who's very short, I'm like, this feels like a bad way to go. Like the fear of the crash. That's a good argument. Plus it's just, there's too many fucking people. Anywhere where you could buy some Dickies and like, you know, wild caught salmon in the same place.

I'm like, this is American, fam. I often just think about that man that got that shirt made of the sticker for the barcode for the rotisserie chicken. You know what I'm talking about? Yes. Okay. I think about him quite often. Like, I hope you're well, sir. It's a hero, bro. Robert, we've been recording this entire time. I know. Are we keeping this Costco conversation in?

I can't. This is the cold opening right here. We're not allowed to cut the Costco conversation. Prop, we're talking about the Jeffrey Epstein of the Philippines. His name is Apollo Kibloi. Anyway, cold opens, fucking done. Hey, I'm is Apollo kibble. Anyway, cold opens fucking done. Hey, I'm Gianna Perdenti.

And I'm Jame Jackson Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Morrie Tehary-Pore. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us

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excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm going deep undercover. It's hard to visualize you with hair. To expose the secret world of professional shoplifting. So you can make $1,000 a day shoplifting. Yeah. And I end up outside the mansion of the shoplifting queen herself.

I hear the cops. Dude, I think we should go. Listen to Queen of the Con Season 6, The California Girls, on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a Mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing.

They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the i horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, I Heart Radio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, we're back. Boy, we really just kind of dropped media res into this motherfucker, didn't we? Yeah, we did.

Oh my god. Are the kids learning words like that anymore? Do they have that on the TikToks? I assume if it's not on the TikToks, the kids aren't learning it anymore. I've become one of those old men who's angry at the kids for not having read the same things I read when I was in high school.

Becoming, I'm sorry. Like the great Gatsby. I feel like you were, you've been an old man since your junior year of high school. It is, it is, it is. I is. It is. It is. It is. I have my brother's. My brother was like that thing to say. No, my brother was like that.

He was just like I was like when he turned 16, we were like, you're 40. Yeah, you are a 40 year old, 16 year old. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of us are like that. And my knees have always been 40. Bad knee crop. A lot of us are like that. And my knees have always been 40. Bad knees. Prop, Jason Petty, host of Hood Politics. Also guest on Behind the Bastards today, prop. Yeah, buddy.

We go back a bit at this point. You and I have been friends for a spell. And this year, I've called on you a couple of times for some real tough episodes. The Bobby Lee episodes and the Thomas Jefferson episodes, not easy ones. And I was like, I want to do something fun for my friend Jason when he comes back on the show. We're not going to do, you know, some fucking slave holding monster from American history.

We're not going to do, you know, we're going to steer clear of the United States entirely. We're going to do a fun one. I'm going to find him like a nice cult leader or something. Anyway, I fucked up and we're doing the Jeffrey Epstein of the Philippines. His name was not Jeffrey Epstein. If it was just a guy named Jeffrey Epstein in the Philippines,

that would be probably irresponsible of me. You just got me a Balik Bayan box of trash that you just brought over. That shout out to all my P-Noise. Y'all, I'm gonna throw, just telling y'all right now, my stepmom's Filipino, you know, she's beside it, she's from Domigetti,

my best friend who I toured forever, DJ Fecto, rest in peace, Filipino. I'm from the part of town that's like a good 40% Filipino. So there's gonna be a gang of Filipino jokes I'm gonna drop in here. And- That's good, that's good.

So many references that I'm gonna drop in this. Yeah, and I- Yes. Yeah, well, I guess there's nothing to do, but get into it. The guy we're talking about today is a man, I'm gonna guess most Americans have not heard of, although he committed a decent number of his crimes

in the United States. His name is Apollo Kiboloy, which I checked on Google right before this. I listened to two different pronunciation videos that both said it differently. Hopefully that's right, but I did my background research here. We could just call him Tito, like Tito Weird.

All right, Tito weird. Yeah. All right, Tito weird. Anyway. It is, this is finally an Apollo episode. I've been wanting to do, ever since a Greek man punched me out at a deli, I've been wanting to do an episode on men named Apollo. Unfortunately, this is not a Greek Apollo.

Nor does the name have anything to do with Greek mythology. That's a little bit weird, at least I don't think it does. Okay, the weird part is what happened right before you said that. You got punched? Why you get punched? Well, there could be a million reasons. I got punched at a lot of delis.

So that's just what happens at a deli if you're someone who feels about cured meats as strongly as I do. Yeah. And especially, you probably said some, I mean, I want to write that script. Like there's some sort of, there's some sort of accidental insults you did.

And- Oh, it was purposeful. Oh, nevermind. Okay. No, he, that his sandwich was wrong. Yeah, yeah. We had this crap. So I'm not gonna say a whole lot

about Jeffrey Epstein in these episodes. I bring this up because like that is what a lot of people write when they've been doing articles. As a spoiler, a bunch of shit blew up with Apollo very recently. His life has collapsed this year. Oh wow. And so when, because his story is crazy,

news media all around the world wants to cover it because it's just the kind of thing you gotta cover. But because it's a Filipino story and most people are not familiar with this guy, he's very famous within the Philippines, but most people are not familiar with this guy in other countries. The touchstone that the news has picked

is he's the Jeffrey Epstein of the Philippines. And I can say, look, that's a little bit gross, but also I want your clicks to you know I'm not too proud to go for those clicks, right? Listen, listen listen when you can Neatly package something that it may be a little rough around the edges I may be cutting out a lot of factual things but it's but it's a digestible pill. I'm with ya Yeah, exactly. We with it. it. Yeah, that's the way. And it's also, there's something appropriate

in terms of like, we're never going to give Jeffrey the punishment that he deserved because he punched out early. But making his name, like he really has in very short order, he's not like a Hitler level, but in terms of like name that is a recognizable shorthand for evil, he's gotten shockingly close in a very short period of time. We'd be like, yeah, that guy's a motherfucking Epstein.

Everyone's like, oh, I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I love it. He's a proper noun now. You know what I'm saying? He's a verb. I love it. And that's appropriate.

That's what he deserves. So, yeah. Wowie. Yeah, anyway. That's enough Filipino reference. Wowie, anyway, sorry. I don't know about you., wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Sorry. I don't know about you.

It's a TV show, kind of a game. Anyway, Google it one day. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow,

wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow,

wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow I just wanted to see it, but haven't been. I've done my best to get up enough. Yeah, oh yeah. My dad said he's gonna move with my stepmom to the Philippines, and I was like, brother, no, you not. I'm just looking at him like, you not leaving the city. Your dad. You know what I'm saying? Your dad. Yeah, my dad.

I was like, sir, I get it, I feel you. He's like, man, I'm retired. He's like, bro, we got, son, we got Elsa got like two cows. I was like, so you I'm retired. He's like, bro, we got, son, we got, Elsa got like two cows. I was like, so you gonna move to the country? Have you taken care of a cow? Cause it is not as fun as you think. I was like, dad, you from North Dallas.

I grew up with a lot of cows and they are a mixed bag. You are a city boy. Like, okay. I don't think you're ready for the amount of poop you're gonna have to deal with. I don't think you're ready for the heat, sir. Like, this is a jungle. Yeah, anyway. So, Apollo Kerion Kibloy was born on April 25th, 1950,

about four years out from the end of the US withdrawal from the Philippines, right? So, World War II happens, right? Japan is like, hey, we'd from the Philippines, right? So, you know, World War II happens, right? Japan is like, hey, we'd like a Philippines and the US is like, here's Douglas MacArthur, he'll stop you. And then Douglas MacArthur is like, no, I won't. And so Japan has the Philippines for a little while.

And then we come back, right? And yeah, that's the way it goes. You know, eventually we leave, anyway, kind of. So his hometown, Apollo's, was Davao City, which is where Rodrigo Duterte got his start as mayor, like that is where he kind of started his political career too. And these two men are very strongly tied together.

Duterte is the guy who killed thousands, probably, of drug users and associated people during his time as this brutal authoritarian president. He did leave office, so not really dictator, but very bad strong man type president. And Apollo and he are very close. So I'm not bringing him up just because like, he's the other guy from the Philippines

we've covered so far. I know, right? I know two Filipinos. Yeah, I know two guys from the Philippines. No, he is directly tied to the story. So Apollo, the youngest of nine children, was named again, not after the Greek god or the much more impressive Apollo Creed,

but after Mount Oppo, a dormant volcano that at almost 10,000 feet above sea level is the highest peak in the Philippines. I should note here that I read on Apollo's church's website that he had been named after a mountain. And when I went to look up the first result for Apollo Mountain, I found this book, which has nothing to do with the story,

but it made me laugh. Mountain Minerva Wood Valley. Erin Havoc, that can't be a real name. So if you're trying to imagine what young child Apollo Kibolo looks like, this is exactly, I'm assuming this is a picture of him. Yeah, yeah, totally. Nice compass.

He's so Maganda. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yes. So yeah, anyway, I put this up also to point out that Google is just really knocking it out of the park these days. Great results, always relevant to my search queries. Like if there's anybody that said, hey, let's do something good and then start not doing it good

and see if y'all stick around. Yeah, it would be like if I started a podcast about all of the worst people in history and then at a certain point pivoted to just doing ads for the Church of Scientology. The whole show, the whole show was ads. Just long extended ads for the Church of Scientology. Why is you doing this?

You ever wanted to clean Tom Cruise's house? Well, there's a way. So anyway, decades after his birth, the website for the cult that Apollo would come to lead said this about the day that he was born at home. Quote. Hey, hold up, hold up, hold up, time out, time out, time out. You slipped in the cult he was about to lead.

At no point was there a warning that this was going to end at a cult. I mentioned he had a cult, I did. You did not. Oh, I think I might've mentioned he had a cult. He's got a little cult. No, you said, No, no, no. You said you were gonna try to find

a nice little cold episode for prop. I did. And then you said you failed at it. You failed at it. Well, I failed at it being nice because there's a lot of child sex abuse in this. I was like, wait, time out, time out. It is a cold episode.

But I appreciate getting a cold, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I did. There's a certain point at research in which you can't turn back around and pick another topic. True. I feel like you just- We're doing it. You just gave a politician's answer, but that's okay.

Thank you, Sophie. I'm getting ready for my big presidential run. And I just wanna let you guys know I'm not gonna be responsible with the nukes. That's my promise. You're not gonna have to worry about it anymore. I've never been more convinced to not vote for somebody than if Robert was running.

I think this is gonna go well with a lot of people because look, Donald Trump, who knows what he's gonna do with the nukes, right? Joe Biden, old sleepy Joe, we just don't know much about his mind state. Me, you know I'm gonna use him and you know I'm not gonna use him well. That's a promise.

You don't have to worry about it anymore. Yeah, man. You know? Yeah. I mean, I feel that. All right, script. Some people you want cooking, some gonna use them well. That's a promise, you don't have to worry about it anymore. Yeah, I mean, I feel that. All right, script. Some people you want cooking, some people you want cleaning. Get back on script. That's right, some people want dropping the H-bomb on Lake Superior.

Okay, anyway, the script. Jesus Christ, get back on script. Sorry. So from the Queb site for his cult, this is what it said about the day that he was born, night I should say, that he was born at home. The night suddenly turned to day moments after his birth and a huge eagle had perched in the trees outside their home and had stayed there until he was born.

So, you know, God turned night into day and eagle watched over him, all the good stuff. On some island, like, yo, we done found a location. Yeah. So, yeah. His family was poor, or at least that's kind of what the stories say. You get the feeling maybe they were closer to,

I mean, the middle class was not really a big thing in the Philippines at this time, but I don't think they were as poor as he kind of likes to portray them as. But his parents may have been, prior to having him, they had immigrated from the family's ancestral home in Lubau after World War II in order to find work, which is what brings them to Devao City. By the time Apollo came into the picture, they seem to have been solidly working class,

his biography claiming that though the family was poor, they were happy. Now I found what appears to be a picture of his family from a news report. It's in Tagalog, it's not translated, but from what I can tell, it looks like the kid in the middle because it zooms in on him is our subject. And you can see just looking at the hair, you can tell that kid's gonna pull up to own a cult. That kid winds up a cult leader.

Come on, buddy. Kid on the left, probably not. Kid on the right, maybe. But kid on the right, maybe, you know? But kid in the middle, that's a cult leader. Yeah. For sure. You can just tell. You can just tell.

Look at all of his ates and cuyas. Mm-hmm. He was cute then. Although that baby in the back looks kind of... Not alive. Not alive, yeah, not alive. Maybe that's a doll. I can't really tell.

Let's hope. I don't know if that baby alive back there. The variance in skin tones there. That baby does not look well. Something right. Maybe the flash was on. So it's a little unclear to me again, just how to characterize the family socioeconomic status

because his parents became pastor leaders at a Pentecostal church in Davao early on. His dad had been raised Protestant, like mainline Protestant, right? Which put the, because obviously like Pentecostal church is a Protestant denomination, but it's also kind of, it's not mainline, you wouldn't say. And this kind of put them in the fact that he kind of moves

to the Pentecostal faith, puts them in line with a big post-war trend in the Philippines. American missionaries had brought Pentecostalism to the country, but it was spread largely by these kind of swashbuckling, and these guys are Filipinos, swashbuckling like pioneer church planters

who are like Johnny Appleseeds of Pentecostal churches. And they're, I mean, the term they use is planting churches in these like settlements in the frontier that are established in the jungle, right? Yeah. Yeah. Now, if you're not aware of a lot of this, Pentecostalism is a strain of Protestant Christianity

that emphasizes charismatic practices, like speaking in tongues and what's called baptism in the Holy Spirit. Oh yeah. These are the kind of folks, they don't just believe in miracles. They believe that God often bestows miraculous ability and powers on members of churches during worship sessions, right?

These are direct. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, my argument is like, I've always argued that like Filipinos, y'all black as hell. I don't care what you say. Like you are black Asians. Y'all somehow they're black and Latino at the same time.

Like, so to me, the idea that it's like, yeah, and then there's a Pentecostal church. I'm like, of course it is because y'all black as hell. There are also, there's like a, I'm not obviously qualified to comment on that, but the fact that there's a huge American influence on the way worship works there, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That you're seeing in this because I mean, we were there for quite a while.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. So his father must have been a man of some ability and personal magnetism because he does very well in the Pentecostal faith as it is kind of sweeping the country. And it seems that a skill for like preaching and you know, like that kind of charismatic preaching ran in the family because Apollo's older brother, Jose, eventually becomes the assistant general superintendent of the largest Pentecostal organization in the Philippines. Now one noteworthy fact about the Kiboloy family is that they seem to have rejected, there's a lot of like in the area they're growing up

in kind of the rural area and like the slums, there's a lot of communist organizing when he's a little kid that is sweeping through the surrounding communities. And they are very much against it. This is a very conservative anti-communist family. We get very little here. This is something I've kind of read in between the lines

and also just kind of based on stuff that happens later. But due to a vaguely defined hardship that may have been related to a conflict with like these local communist groups, some of which are insurgent organizations, Apollo is moved away from home as a boy to live with his older sister. I don't know why, just some of the stuff I've read

makes me think it may have been tied to some political conflicts in their hometown. I don't actually know though. It's a- Also like what's interesting, this may, I don't know if this is gonna play in later, but I feel like it probably will because of, like you said, the communist thing.

Like while Pentecostalism might be very theologically on the fringes, like it fringes a strong word, but like theologically liberal, they're actually very socially conservative. It's very like, yeah, you know, very much about like your performance of holiness, you know what I'm saying? And that holiness is something that you'd like, they don't drink, they don't smoke, they don't, you know what I'm saying? They're not free with what, you know, folks would call like their liberties, you know what I'm saying? It's very much like, you know, for us, like, you know,

that's the older generation for a lot of like black people. So it's like, you don't listen to secular music, you don't watch rated R movies, you know what I'm saying? Cause you're supposed to be holy, you feel me? And a lot of that has to do with you being filled with the Holy Ghost, you know what I'm saying? So to hear that, like the play of like communism be holy, you feel me? And a lot of that has to do with you being filled with the Holy Ghost, you know what I'm saying? So to hear that like the play of like communism

may be in a thing, it makes sense to me of those two things being together in that sense. It may not play in later, but I think it's- Oh, it does. No, no, no. As an adult, he is going to have some dealings with his local communists that are very much not pretty. So this is, I'm not bringing this stuff up for nothing.

And I'm not, I don't, I do kind of, because of some stuff he's gonna say later, I do suspect that like, this is part of the kind of why he's uprooted as a little boy, you know? But I don't actually know that to a point of certainty. Either way, he gets moved away when he's like a kid to live with his oldest sister.

His official biography claims it was there that he learned the hard lessons of responsibility through the rule of the stick. If you don't get a feeling, yeah, if you don't get a feeling she was a nice aunt, right? Well, you know, not aunt literally, but yeah. Yeah, yeah, sister. Yeah, for eight years he attended school

and worked at a sister's bakery. He became, as he would later claim, and again, this is a liar, a diligent student. And that quote, when he became a teenager, he forgot all about having friends or having fun because there just wasn't time for that in his life. Again, maybe that's true. I don't know.

Reading between the lines a bit, we can probably assume that he was not a happy boy, separated from his family and used as free labor by his sister. At age 14, he had his first vision from God, a hallucination about the end of the world with fire raining from the sky, igniting the gasoline depots near his sister's home.

Quote, people tried to escape into the sea, but even the water was a flame. There was nowhere to go. Now, obviously I don't believe this guy is the prophet of, or he's actually going to claim the literal son of God. But I also, that's specific enough that I would believe that that's an actual nightmare he had as opposed to something he made up.

Like that's really the whole igniting the gas depots near his sister home is like such a specific thing to bring up that that strikes me as like, maybe something that was at some point came into his head as opposed to something he made up later to justify starting a cult. Night after night, the dream repeated itself. Apollo would graduate and attend a Bible college

where he finally came to realize that his nightmares weren't nightmares. they were visions of the second coming. This, he would later write, allowed him to make peace with the upheaval and difficulty of his childhood. He realized that his childhood was all part of the father's orchestration. His sister was only an instrument, a tool that the father had used to mold him in the principles of discipline and responsibility that made him into a vessel ready for the father had used to mold him and the principles of discipline and responsibility that made him into a vessel ready for the father's incredible calling in his life.

Now, clearly a lot of this is made up. Satan made for evil. Yeah. God turned around for good, yeah. Yeah, a lot of this is, this part I think is made up after the fact to justify the cult that he starts. But I do find it interesting that he describes his sister as just a tool meant to mold him into shape.

That's part of how you could see like, there must've been a real conflict here. That's a very mean way to describe your sister. Yeah, yeah, and also very Pentecostal. Uh-huh. Yes, yes, yeah. And it also, it kind of does mirror the fact that his sister seems to have used him

as like basically a tool for free labor, right? For sure, yeah. On his church's website, Apollo or one of his followers makes it clear that he didn't want to go to Bible school. His real dream was to be a pilot. But ultimately the fact that tuition and room and board were free are what swayed him. This was his first chance at independence from his sister and he took it. As he continued to pray, he was visited by God in dreams

and he was told that he had been anointed to spread the gospel. Quote, the gift was so extraordinary that Pastor Apollo had to check himself every now and then to see if he was still sane, if what he was saying still made sense, if he had not after all gone mad. Okay.

Yeah. Am I trippin'? Like, y'all listen, listen. Yeah. Tell I tripping like, y'all, listen, listen. Yeah. Tell me if I'm tripping. It might be the Ube. It might have been a bad bullet. Then you go on. Am I tripping? But I'm. Pretty sure an angel was in this room last night.

Now I might be tripping. I think I might be here to bring about the apocalypse, you know, I think. Does that seem crazy to anybody? Yeah. I mean, like, look, stop me at any time, but like, I'll pull the post down. I'll pull it down if I need to delete it. But like, I think I am the pale horse.

Yeah. I mean, look, a lot of us think we're the pale horse. There's nothing crazy about that, you know? If you think you're the pale horse, just keep riding, baby. Just keep riding, you know? You won't have to the pale horse, just keep riding, baby, just keep riding, you know? You won't have to do much about it. You'll do what you're doing,

whether you try it to or not, if you're the pale horse. Maybe start on the East Coast though, do me a solid, huh? Okay, anyway. So I think Apollo is a savvy man, and he's smart enough to pay attention and see that by 1972, when he graduates Bible college, American style charismatic churches are spreading everywhere, not just in the Philippines.

The most sophisticated of them, because we've talked about on our TV Joshua episodes, how this is a lot of this is happening in parts of Africa too, right around this period of time, a little later in like central Africa. The most sophisticated of these churches had embraced the radio and increasingly television as a way to reach more people

than could ever fill a physical church. And he is someone who sees this happening. He's fairly insightful and he understands there's a lot of money and power in making myself one of these men. And furthering on that point, he has a gift for preaching that he finds that seems to some extent be something

that is in his family, but that he's clearly got, he is special in this regard. He's got the juice. Yeah, he's got the juice. His bio claims, he could preach as much as seven times a day because he had to get all those words out of him. He had a full schedule all year round and such was his passion and zeal

that even if woken in the middle of the night to preach, he would get up and go. He became a famous evangelist because of this. He earned the nickname Preaching Machine. I've actually heard this before in the US. I talk a lot about a documentary called Marjo that's about a guy, Marjo Gortner, who back in like the fucking 40s

is the youngest preacher in the United States. He's like marrying people of like six. Yes, yes, his parents who are very abusive are like taking him around. And he does a documentary as an adult, just kind of about the actual gritty underside of this like traveling preacher industry. And he is the kind of person who,

cause he does it a few times, it's like a party trick. He could just lapse into a 20 minute sermon. That is this like big fire and brimstone, shit rhymes. Like he's great at it. Like some people, like, and this is, you know, it's both, there's a degree of like natural talent and he works at this, right? Like you do have to, there's, it's, this is not, you know,

purely a talent. There's a lot of skill here too, you know, that is craft. Yeah, no, I would, I would say that like, that's something that, you know, that is craft and careful. Yeah, nah, I would say that, like, that's something that, you know, the craft, obviously, again, I keep bringing up my blackness, I don't know why I keep bringing it up,

but like, the craft of preaching is something that, you know, in our culture, we do see as, this is a spiritual gift, like, God has given you this gift. And all you really need is just the training in the actual text. And like, once you know the text, you got the gift, you call to be a preacher, but you can't help the call, like God has given you this gift. So like, it would be irresponsible for us to not let you use it.

And then oftentimes, because this person is just so gifted, they don't be knowing what they talking about. And you can get away with so much because you so gifted. You know what I mean? So I'm always like whenever anybody, especially around like when people fall for some sort of like charismatic speaker and it ends up being a cult, like it's as silly as that is as far as like you not having your antennas, like some people are just really good communicators. And it's like, if you like snap out for a second and just suspend reality, fam, you fall for it too.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's like, that's where this guy is. He is the kind of person who can just make a crowd lose themselves, right? And people really like listening to him. So yeah, he made waves within his local church. And in 1973, one year out of Bible college,

he was sent to an expo in Seoul, that's South Korea, for Pentecostal youth activists, which he attended as part of, because like, again, the Philippines, a political situation at the time, he attends as part of the American and Canadian delegations. Where? He is the only Filipino at the event. He is the only Asian in his delegation of 186 people.

We can again infer that this is, yeah. I mean, obviously there's people in Korea, but like the American and Canadian delegation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can infer that this was a lonely time for Apollo, given how many times he stresses being the only non-white kid in his group. And it is here that he claims to have first heard

the voice of God clearly give him instructions, announcing his divine plans to use Apollo. So Apollo, naturally, goes to the adult leaders and chaperones for his group and is like, hey, God just told me he's got some big old plans for me. And their response, I don't know if it tells you that like the rest of the charismatic movement is more grounded, you know, at this point than it is today

or just that they're racist and they're not willing to listen to this Filipino kid. But- A and B fam. I'm telling you from experience, buddy, it's A and B. Anyway, go on. Take your pick. Yeah.

After listening to him, the American missionaries gently but firmly told him, you know, when you pray, that is you talking to God, but when you hear God talking to you, there's something wrong. You need to see a doctor. Oh, no, no, they just racist. Cause that's not-

That does. That's not what they would have said. That's not what they would have said. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, no, they're not racist. Cause Pentecostal need to be, you can't end church until God speaks. So like, that's why church be last in seven hours. We gotta wait until the, we gotta tarry to the Lord.

You know what I'm saying? So no, y'all just racist. Yeah, I think you have to try it. I think you have to pronounce it as like, oh no, no, no, no, no. When you pray, that's you talking to God. But when you hear God talking to you, there's something wrong.

Yeah, no, every Pentecostal event ends with, the Lord told me. Yeah. So like, nah fam, nah. No, I think that's fair. What else is fair prop, is the prices of the products and services that support this podcast.

Let us pray. If you can find a better deal, I will personally slash the tires of the CEO of that company. No, no, no, no. Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully Goldilocks is the sponsor again, another Filipino joke. Right there, I am on Azusa.

Sorry, it's like a bakery Goldilocks. Anyway. I'll slash a bakery's tires. I don't care. Robert, Robert. What? You get some Pondesal, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

For legal purposes, he's joking. Joking. Maybe. Definitely. Hey, I'm Gianna Prenti. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadston. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.

When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Sanner.

The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it, like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeart

Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're turning up the heat on the newest episode of All the Smoke. Vice President and Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris pulls up to the show to discuss her historic presidential run. Most people have ambition, they have aspirations, they have dreams, and they are willing to work hard. And if we give people the opportunity to actually meet those goals, they jump for it every time.

Matt and Stack will be diving deep into the journey that brought her here, her vision for the future, and the real stories behind the headlines. Make sure you check out All the Smoke with Vice President Kamala Harris out now. Listen today on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, y'all?

This is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm gonna toss it over to the host of Historical Records,

Nemmy, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all. Are you ready for an explosive new podcast that brings together hip hop and history? My name is Nimmini, and I'm the host of Historical Records, a brand new podcast for kids and families that proves in order to make history,

you have to make some noise. Flash slam, another one gone. Fast bam, another one gone. The cracker, the bat,, another one gone. Bash bam, another one gone. The cracker, the bat, and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. And the best part? I make this show entirely by myself. Impressive, right?

Me too, right? OK, OK. Maybe I get a little bit of help from my sidekick Tina the Raccoon. Every week on Historical Records, join me, Nimminy, and Tina the Raccoon as we learn about the unsung heroes of the past and turn their history into hip hop. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. They stroll in like regular shoppers. Did it ever occur to you that all these crazy shoplifting stories are actually connected? Eight million dollar retail theft ring. I'm going deep undercover. It's hard to visualize you with hair. To connect the dots and expose this secret world. It's 100% human trafficking.

So you can make $1,000 a day shoplifting. Yeah. But she's just a worker bee. I actually confront the real shoplifting queen herself. Just wanted to see if you'd be interested in talking to me about charges and stuff. No, I have no comment. A mother of three orchestrating all her crimes

from a secluded hilltop mansion. We're walking around the perimeter of the house now. I hear the cops. Dude, I think we should go. Let's roll. We're running from the cops. Listen to Queen of the Con, season six, The California Girls on the iHeartRadio app

or wherever you get your podcasts. Gosh, if I was one of those California girls, I'd be sweating. When most people think of the Atlanta Olympic Park bombing, they think of Richard Jewell, a security guard who was first painted as a hero by the media, but later became a suspect in the FBI's investigation. But in the summer of 1996, it was Eric Rudolph, a terrorist and dedicated soldier in the white supremacist Christian identity movement, who executed the bombing and escaped into the night.

And that's all most people know about him. What most people don't know about him is that before withdrawing from civilization, he also bombed two abortion clinics and a lesbian nightclub. What even fewer people know about him is that he eluded the authorities for five years in the mountains of North Carolina until his eventual capture in 2003. And what I didn't know about him was how our two lives were connected. From iHeart and Tenderfoot TV, I'm Cole Acasio, and this is Flashpoint. All eight episodes are available to binge now. Listen for free on the iHeart radio app, Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And join Tinderfoot Plus for an ad-free bench experience. Anyway, we're back.

Oh my gosh, everyone's having a good time. I'm not. Well, fine. All right, so. Apollo at this point is like, well, these guys don't believe what I'm saying, but I'm gonna keep listening to these voices and keep preaching.

And things go well for him. The very next year, he is adopted national president for the organization that like the largest Pentecostal organization in the Philippines. And soon after this, he meets an American girl and he starts dating her. A fact I only bring up because he brags about it quite a bit in his biography.

Of course. Quote, he was the apple of the eye of his denomination. He had a beautiful American girlfriend that they wanted him to marry. His career path to the top was clear. People loved him wherever he went. He was treated like a prince. The detail that they wanted him to,

his denomination wanted him to marry this American. That's interesting. There's a lot there that I may be, I'm definitely not the right person to analyze, but that is interesting. Yeah, nah, that's good. Yeah. There's a phrase in Spanish that,

it may not necessarily be the same concept. It's called, advance the race, right? So like, Inventar a Raza. So like what they're basically saying is like, get you a white person. You know what I'm saying?

So get you an American white person and it advances us. So it's like, you're pushing our culture forward, you're pushing the family forward, you're pushing our wealth forward. So like, so when you get you somebody like Lyskian or an American white person, then this is like the best thing for us. You know what I'm saying?

So it's possible, I don't know if this is what he's going at, but it's possible that like, that's kind of the vibe where it's like, oh yeah, no, yeah, no, no, no, no, they want me to marry her. I don't know, you know what I'm saying? Like, this is what we're doing, you know what I'm saying? I'm advancing, you know?

It's a flex, it's a flex to pull an American. Yep, yep. The next lines in his biography are that these American missionaries who are jealous, he kind of infers are jealous that he's dating this American girl, are also become jealous of his success and they decide to sabotage him. And he claims that this is what eventually set him

on the path to creating his own denomination and church. And it's here that I finally do have some evidence to the contrary to bring up, because we are, when it comes to the rest of this stuff, we are kind of reliant upon his recollections of his early life. Here we have some outside information. So his claim, I started having conflicts

with the broader Pentecostal denomination in the Philippines because these American missionaries didn't like me, didn't like that I was seeing this girl from their country, didn't like how good I was. That's not the whole story. Residents from the mountainous rural region of Kitbog, where Apollo claims to have had some of his greatest revelations,

recalled to a local news magazine, rappler.com, that back in the 1970s, Apollo was a young preacher of his greatest revelations recalled to a local news magazine, rappler.com, that back in the 1970s, Apollo was a young preacher and basically acted as a sidekick to a government employee, Major Sanchez, who had been sent by the president to look into the issues facing the indigenous communities in the area.

Now, this is particularly worth noting because the president at that point was Ferdinand Marcos. So if your name is, if everyone calls you Major Sanchez, and you are sent by Ferdinand Marcos to look into issues facing indigenous communities in a part of the Philippines in the 1970s, you're not doing anything good. It's not a great. You're not doing anything good. It's not good. Yeah, this is bad news, fam.

Yeah. Right, today the Philippines does not rank well. I don't like to reduce countries to like where they are in like the corruption index, right? But today they're at about 116 out of 180 and things are worse when Marcos is the dictator, right? Marcos is famous for awarding his cronies with, you know, basically like you would get like a job like this,

the purpose of a job like this is to reward someone who was loyal to you by letting them go rob a bunch of people blind, you know, with bribes, with like giving contracts to different companies to let them like strip mine shit. That's what Sanchez is doing in this area, in Kinloch. These are licenses to imbezzle and rob people blind. And the fact that Apollo is like following Sanchez around

is kind of his tame preacher where Sanchez is like, hey, these people are religious as hell. I'm going to be strip mining their lives away. You keep them entertained, right? That's the insinuation that people make about our boy Apollo, what he is doing at this point, as opposed to he's just so good at preaching that these Americans are angry, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, as a sidekick of the major, we can assume Apollo made connections to other corrupt figures of the Marcos age and put aside more than a little bit of other people's money for himself because that's just how it worked. Whatever the specific details,

it was bad enough what he did with this major. We don't know exactly what he did, but it was bad enough that the Pentecostal church in the Philippines disfellowships him in 1979 specifically because of his relationship to the major, which is an extreme measure, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't give somebody a left-handed fellowship

unless it's like real. So his claim, the Americans didn't want me there because they were jealous. The actual information, the actual reporting suggests he was kicked out by his own people because he was hideously corrupt and involved in a figure associated with this regime that by the end of the 70s was not very popular.

He does, it's not that bad for him because he gets to make a public apology and is accepted back the next year. So we are, whatever his involvement was, it was not hideous enough that like someone was gonna murder his ass in the street or whatever, but it was bad, right? Apollo is reassigned after he gets let back into the church

to head up a church in Agdow, where he developed a habit of ranting angrily about his colleagues who had kicked him out of the church briefly. By 1985, this had caused enough problems that he was at risk of being kicked out yet again. Now we have the facts. This is clearly the story of a corrupt asshole who got a second chance he never deserved. This is not how Apollo would later tell the story. Quote, his heart was so sincere, passionate, and hungry for the Lord and to follow

what was written in his word. But he could not see the same thing in his denomination. He felt heart sore and disappointed. God really wants me robbing these indigenous people for Marcos. His heart was so sincere, passionate and hungry for the Lord. It's like a bad Christian mingle bio.

It's a bad Christian mingle bio. But listen, listen, consider it a blessing when they lie and persecute you. Blessed is he who's persecuted for my name's sake. Listen, I was bringing the gospel and I got persecuted for it. So I'm in the fellowship of the suffering of our savior, doing the work of the Lord.

And yeah. Literally it's like, there's like this prompt on all the dating apps that are like, how would your friends describe you? And then they write it themselves. And he's like, his heart was so sincere and passionate and hungry for the Lord. I'm gonna create a dating profile on like Grinder in Portland for this guy, just using quotes from his and see how the Lord. I'm gonna create a dating profile on my grinder in Portland for this guy,

just using quotes from his and see how it does. See how it does. See if I find actual quotes from him. Maybe I'll find love. Robert, let's find you some love. I just feel- Let's find me some love. Cause your heart was so sincere, passionate, and hungry for the Lord.

I'm gonna be arrested. Before you drop that nuke. Six months later. I dropped that nuke. I dropped that nuke with a good heart. Yeah. Yeah, exactly, exactly. It was a loving nuke.

So he writes that quote, "'What he saw in his denomination was politics "'and a failure to follow what the father wanted. "'The cry in his heart was, "'Is this all? "'I want something more.'" And when you think about all the bribes he was taking, I think that that sentence is,

has a little bit of a different feel to it. Come on, come on. On September 1st, 1985, Apollo was scheduled to have what you might call a come to Jesus meeting, a literal come to Jesus meeting with his superiors at the church, where they were gonna grill him

on the fact that he had been telling his congregation, all of the other pastors were quote, unqualified and ignorant. Basically like, then you have to stop talking shit about literally everyone else. The bishop called you in and said, yeah, the bishop said, sir, I need you to sit down for a second.

Yeah, we are unhappy with you. Yes. Yeah, so. Oh man. Yeah, instead of making that meeting, Apollo's like, well, fuck this shit. I know where this is gonna go. I don't need to sit for this.

I'm gonna start a cult. It's time. Bro, the vipers, you have lost your way. He's like, what else can I do? I have to obey the Holy Spirit. I gotta follow the Spirit. Am I gonna listen to man or am I gonna listen to God? That's right.

And what else was he supposed to do? Cult, obviously. There was no other option. That's the only option. I have to follow the spirit. And the spirit is leading me to do, cause the Lord said. And that's the, in some senses,

as bonkers as Pentecostal church is, my mama used to say this, everybody that does say it, the Lord, the Lord ain't the same. My mama used to say that. So like, so at least they going, fam, listen, the other Filipinos was like, buddy, you ain't here from God. That's not what you saying is not factual.

That's funny. Yeah, yeah. So they, yeah, they're like, you know, he has this meeting that he bounces on and his version of events. He claims that he decided to skip the meeting because an anonymous man visited him and told him they should meet up at a hotel later that night so he could share a mission from God. Listen, folks, if this ever happens to you, do not make that meeting.

That is something terrible is going to happen in that hotel. I'm not gonna make light of it, I'm just going to say, you know the bad thing that'll happen in that hotel room. They about to, dog. Yeah. They about to turn you into a dobo, bro. Like, do not, do not go to that.

Yeah. Now here's how he describes the meeting that follows. When he got there, the man surprisingly told him nothing, except to sleep there in the room since the hour was late. It was 1201 in the evening. But as he lay down, he was catapulted suddenly into a vision. He saw the ceiling open up to the night sky, showing the stars twinkling clear and bright. He did not know if he was asleep or awake,

but he knew it was the open heaven. One bright star was growing bigger and bigger, drawing down slowly closer until a hand with a white sleeve was revealed to be holding a heavy, shiny bronze cauldron. The hand held the cauldron before him, as though just a few feet away and turned it, and Pastor Apollo immediately read the words written on one side, strive to rhyme for unity. When the hand turned the cauldron the other way, he saw words written there,

not in any language he knew, and as he read it, a voice said, these words are for you only, tell no one. And Pastor Apollo has kept those words secret to this day. Wow. I don't know. You know, look. The whole, like, he's, there's so many things in there

that like require a level of nerdery. Like there's a, he's invoking, I think it's 1 Corinthians, he's invoking an image that Paul talked about being brought into the third heavens when he was like, Lord put me to sleep. I don't know if I was awake or asleep. I can't tell you, but I saw this vision and I was given,

I was shown an image that I still can't utter. So he's like, he's like really invoking some like apostle Paul type, like I am starting a church imagery. You know what I'm saying? That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So that's what he's invoking there.

That's specifically what he's bringing in. Yeah. Cause I just found this very familiar to my experience being invited into a hotel room by someone who told me they were going to show me God and then the hallucinations that I had later. And I have kept the words I heard that day secret, but for a very different reason.

Yeah. Anyways. Yeah, the words you got was from the LSD and the dude saying, shh. It'll be over soon. It was from a copy of that Terrence McKenna book about mushrooms. It was just, the voice said, never stop podcasting. That is right, right?

I hear that voice every second of my life, Sophie. Every second of my life. That's just me. I believe, you know, that there's- Yeah, the voice is like, so what are you guys talking about next week? God, God, just, yeah. Yeah, there are different kinds of beliefs,

systems around the world that like believe that you literally sing the world into being. And there has to always be somebody like singing in order to like keep reality, you know, like humming along and I am that for podcasting, right? As long as I'm podcasting. Not for real. You know, the firmament will stay above us,

but it will collapse and bring about a thousand years of fire the instant that I stop. You are the Greek Apollo of podcasting. So keep listening folks. Yes. And speaking of listening, it's time to listen to these ads. You're right, Sophie.

Wow. You're right. Dude, that was a whole lot. Speaking of, yeah, thank you, thank you. That was good. That was icy of me. Mm-hmm. Very. Hey, I'm Gianna Predenti, Yeah, thank you. Thank you. That was good. That was icy of me very

Hey, I'm Gianna Prudente and I'm Jemay Jackson Gadsden We're the hosts of let's talk offline a new podcast from LinkedIn news and I heart podcasts When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions Like how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties

you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Sanner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it, the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote.

What is it like? You miss 100% of the shots you never take. Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're turning up the heat on the newest episode

of All the Smoke. Vice President and Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris pulls up to the show to discuss her historic presidential run. Most people have ambition, they have aspirations, they have dreams, and they are willing to work hard. And if we give people the opportunity to actually meet those goals, they jump for it every time. Matinstack will be diving deep into the journey that brought her here, her vision for the future, and the real stories behind the headlines.

Make sure you check out All the Smoke with Vice President Kamala Harris, out now. Listen today on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sup y'all, this is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast.

Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm gonna toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimmini, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out. Hey y'all, are you ready for an explosive new podcast

that brings together hip hop and history? My name is Nimmini and I'm the host of Historical Records, a brand new podcast for kids and families that proves, in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Flash, slam, another one gone. Fast, bam, another one gone. The cracker, the bat, and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. And the best part?

I make this show entirely by myself. Impressive, right? Oh, okay, okay. Maybe I get a little bit of help from my sidekick, Tina the Raccoon. Every week on Historical Records, join me, Nimini and Tina the Raccoon as we learn about the unsung heroes of the past and turn their history into hip hop. Listen to historical records on the I heart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Regular shoppers. Did it ever occur to you that all these crazy shoplifting stories are actually connected? An $8 million retail theft ring. I'm going deep undercover. It's hard to visualize you with hair.

To connect the dots and expose this secret world. It's 100% human trafficking. So you can make $1,000 a day shoplifting. Yeah. But she's just a worker bee. I actually confront the real shoplifting queen herself. Just wanted to see if you'd be interested in talking to me about charges and stuff.

No, I have no comment. A mother of three orchestrating all her crimes from a secluded hilltop mansion. We're walking around the perimeter of the house now. I hear the cops. Dude, I think we should go. Let's roll. We're running from the cops. Listen now. I hear the cops. Dude, I think we should go. Let's roll. We're running from the cops.

Listen to Queen of the Con, season 6, The California Girls on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Gosh, if I was one of those California girls, I'd be sweating. When most people think of the Atlanta Olympic Park bombing, they think of Richard Jewell, a security guard who was first painted as a hero by the media but later became a suspect in the FBI's investigation. But in the summer of 1996, it was Eric Rudolph, a terrorist and dedicated soldier in the white

supremacist Christian Identity Movement, who executed the bombing and escaped into the night. And that's all most people know about him. What most people don't know about him is that before withdrawing from civilization, he also bombed two abortion clinics and a lesbian nightclub. What even fewer people know about him is that he eluded the authorities for five years in the mountains of North Carolina until his eventual capture in 2003. And what I didn't know about him was how our two lives were connected. From iHeart and Tenderfoot TV, I'm Cole Lacasio, and this is Flashpoint.

All eight episodes are available to binge now. Listen for free on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And join Tenderfoot Plus for an ad-free binge experience. We're back. So, Apollo has abandoned his church in Aghdao and he's taken a core group of loyal followers, about 15 people, and established his new,

totally independent church, the Kingdom of Jesus Christ, thy name above every name, which is every word of that is capitalized. Woo, that's a lot of, ain't no abbreviation of it? KOJC is usually what you get, which is a lot easier to say. That is a lot of, ain't no abbreviation of it. KOJC is usually what you get for the, which is a lot easier to say. That is a heavy name. That's a lot of words.

He sets it up in a slum nearby where his old church had been. And as soon as he's got this church of his own, he starts preaching to his first followers. And again, there's like a little over a dozen of them. He tells them that, hey, this is not your daddy's Pentecostal faith and I'm not just a preacher.

I am now the quote appointed son of God. Now, what does that mean? Prop? Because he's not saying I am like the second coming. No, he's saying he's the man of God. Yeah. He said, it sounds to me, and maybe something is lost in the translation here,

although he does preach a lot in English. Is he saying that like appointed, like God was like, you know what, you're not my born kid, but you and I are so tight, I signed the papers, right? You are, I have adopted you officially, you were like the son of God, because I picked you, you know?

Not like that Jesus guy, just getting by on his blood. You feel me? Yeah, you just, you were born in, that's nepotism. No, there is an idea, there's two ideas. Yeah, there's two ideas in there. There's like the idea of salvation is an adoption into being the sons of God, right? So there's like, there's that concept, right?

But then what he's saying is, again, I'm pulling on like the idea of the Pentecostal idea of being the anointed one, which is like, there's the capital anointed one, that's Jesus. And then there's anointed as in being set apart, being chosen by God for this particular time. And what he's, or like the old folks who say for such a time as this, you know what I'm saying?

So what I feel like what he's invoking is like, I am God's chosen for this moment in this season. I am the anointed one for now. So it's like lowercase anointed. I'm thinking that's what he's saying. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah, I could see that being it.

Now I should also note that appointed son of God, you'll hear that a lot, that is not close to his only nickname. This is a spoiler for where this goes. FBI indictment notes that he also went by Sir, Pastor, ACQ, not really sure where that one came from. I think that's just maybe his nick, like his initials. And yeah, that's gotta be his initials. And one of his favorite nicknames on his church website

is the extremely unwieldy man who was chosen when the father's hand of appointment came upon his life and he did not fail him. Woo-wee! Howdy, howdy, that's a nickname. That's a nickname, fam. This is the man of God. When your nickname has clauses,

you may need an editor. Listen. Listen. Yeah. Oh, man. They still, your nickname has clauses, you may need an editor. Listen. Yeah. Oh man. They still, cause like still like, you know, like you go to church with your grandma, like when the pastor walks in, they say man of God. You know what I'm saying?

Like you address the pastor as the man of God. You know what I'm saying? So like there is a element of like, sort of this hierarchy that kind of exists in that denomination. And then there's the level you taught him out. Which is like, oh word, so you the man of God plus, like, you know what I'm saying?

You the plus Freeman series, you feel me? Like you can, we all just got the free trial version. We got the 799, you know what I'm saying? You got the 1499 version of the anointing. Yeah, he's a double stuffed Oreo of holiness. He's double stuffed. He got a double portion. Maybe one of those new Coke flavored Oreos.

I don't know. I'm not a theologian, you know? I think religious scholars, rabbis and the like could debate over that. So the next decade and change are a busy time for Apollo. He continued to accumulate followers at a startling rate. He is very good at building an organization. He has a robust media operation

that spreads videos of church sessions where he would speak in tongues and perform miracles. And as he brought in followers, obviously so came money. He purchased, like any good cult leader, a forested compound on the mountain that was his namesake. Right, he's got his mountain compound now. In one TV interview, he claimed that this mountain compound

is proof that God had restored the Garden of Eden. Woo wee! Yeah, I got the Garden of Eden. You could come stay here for a couple hundred blocks. It's nice, it's nice. There's worse picks for a location. I'll say that. That's how it is, you know what I'm saying?

Go up there in the mountains, get that 100 year old lady, give you the tattoo. Right, that's some Garden of Eden type stuff, I feel you. Sure, yeah. Look my dog. I don't know how apples do over there, to be honest, but they got other fruit, they got other fruit. So God apparently also really liked the idea

of shotgunning a shitload of money to Rodrigo Duterte, who at this point becomes the mayor of Davao city in 1988 after the people power revolution. Duterte was Apollo's most prominent political friend of the post-Marcos era, right? And Duterte would later claim to owe some of his rise to power to the fact that Apollo's church gives a shitload of money to him at the start of his political campaign.

So again, he gets jumpstarted in a big way by Apollo Kibolo's cult. Now given the corruption endemic to Duterte's regime and the fact that Apollo's already been caught up in some shady shit, You might assume, maybe is there some like sinister quid pro quo here, right? Is he backing this guy? So this guy is going to like, once he's mayor, help him get away with some crimes. Don't worry, Rodrigo Duterte would never do

that sort of thing. Would never! No, of course not. And in an interview for the Inquirer, he assured the world that this was never the case. Quote, it was Duterte himself who said that the wealthy preacher doesn't have other friends. I mean, a friend he can really trust. Stressing this as the reason that Kiboloy

has been giving him expensive gifts. Look, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this isn't corruption. Man just needs a friend, you know? Look, man, when you get it. I'm just trying to be there for my buddy. When you exist in our stratosphere, like in the social sphere that we exist in,

it's hard to have people that trust you. You think everybody needs something funny. So it just gets lonely, you know? And like, I just wanted to do something nice for the homies. Right, right, exactly, exactly. You know what? We should all be grateful that there are people like Rodrigo Duterte out there

who are willing to be friends with a poor, you know, lonely cult leader with three to seven million followers around the world. Right? You know, no one is lonelier than a man like that. Yeah, you can be alone among millions, man. That's right. That's a beautiful prop.

That's beautiful. Anyway. I'm a poet. So the KOJC quickly spreads to become one of the largest Pentecostal churches on earth. Somewhere between three and seven million followers, I've heard both numbers. Most of these are in and around Manila, but he has people in multiple countries around the world.

He has like sub-churches dedicated to the KOJC in multiple countries, including the United States. Wow. Now, unlike most pastors, Apollo tells his growing flock, it's not enough just to show up on Sunday to hear me preach. You have to put your money where your mouth is

with a steadily increasing yearly tithe that by 2004 was more than $1,200 a year in a country where the average salary is less than $10,000 a year. Got a tithe, got a tithe. That is a painful tithe. Yeah, you got a tithe till it hurts. Yeah. Yeah $10,000 a year. Got a tithe, got a tithe. That is a painful tithe. Yeah, you got a tithe till it hurts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I will not give unto God that which costs me nothing. Yeah, and memorandums sent to followers about the annual tithe, but with the signature, office of the son of God. So you really, that's not just like your local tax department or whatever, you know, that's not the fucking Department of Water and Power sending you a bill, you really gotta get on that one.

You gotta like, listen, listen, you don't want his collections. Profit is not worth his wages, you know what I'm saying? Will a man rob God? Yeah. Will a man rob God? Yes, no. Yeah. So, money.

He's hitting all the high points, man. Right. He hit all of them. He really is. Now money is not the only thing flowing Apollo's way. He began to get access to women as well. Many of them very young and desperate to forge some sort of connection to a man they believed

might bring salvation. It is unclear precisely how and when Apollo started sleeping with his followers. But by no later than 2002, he and his most trusted aides had built a system within the church entirely designed to funnel young girls up towards him. His church referred to these people as pastorals, which was not an extant term in the faith and referred to girls as young as 11 and basically never older than 25. An FBI indictment from 2018 notes,

pastoral's prepared defendant Kiboloy's meals, cleaned his residences, gave him massages using lotion and traveled with him on trips throughout the world to include the United States. Pastoral's engaged in sex with defendant Kiboloy on a schedule determined by defendants. Is that happening again? That is happening again, yes.

It always gets to a dick. It's always, I mean, because that's why people do this. That's why people make cults one way or the other, usually. Every now and then you get like, L. Ron Hubbard's cult, you know, was purely about being able to absolutely control the lives of a bunch of people and make them dig for treasure.

He wasn't focused on the sex primarily, but most of them are, that's a big thing for a lot of them. Pastoral is engaged in sex with defendant Kiboloy on a schedule determined by defendants and what was referred to by pastoral as night duty. For some pastoral- Night duty? Night duty, I know.

That is disgusting. That's a bad one. I don't like that at all. And the FBI notes for some pastorals, night duty began before the pastoral reached the age of 18. Now, these girls had all been, not all, but usually been raised in the church, which is a lot worse because these are girls

who are raised to believe this is the literal son of God. And like- Who's the man of God, yeah. He wants you close to him. He wants you to, he has chosen you sister to like, help him and help him with his great work. And that includes massage. You can get some of his anointing.

They move along. And this is again, not all that, not completely dissimilar from how Epstein did it, right? Massages are kind of a key because it gets, you know, it gets them in the room with you and then things can proceed from there. The difference here is that these girls had spent their lives being told this man was divine, right?

Now the coaching to become a pastoral does seem to have taken some time and a big part of the organizational structure of the church was set up to train and funnel these girls upward so that there's a steady supply of them. Sometimes it took years to get them ready for night duty. They were informed that night duty was a privilege

and that the obedient would be rewarded, and they were. Keboluoy paid them in stays at luxury hotels. These are often very poor women and girls. He paid them in trips to tourist hotspots with annual cash rewards. For the people who didn't want to accept this, he had a stick to go with the carrot and that stick was hell.

Refusing the pastor meant being sent sentenced to eternal damnation. And again, this is the son of God. The man of God, yeah. I was gonna say that's the thing. It's like, you wanna get close is the son of God. The man of God. Yeah. I was going to say that's the thing. It's like you want to, you want to get close to the anointing. You want to get close to whatever gift, gift that's God's given him. Lord has chosen you.

This is your reasonable service to the man of God who's given his life for our development. I mean, this is your service. Yeah. Yeah. Now, many of these girls, as I stated, have grown up very poor in rural slums, not unlike where Apollo had spent much of his childhood. Some of them had parents in the church, but others were targeted by Apollo's agents,

who were sent out into the poorest neighborhoods to look for teens and young adults who had either had left their families or who could be convinced to abandon their families. So like, go find kids on the margins and bring them in, promise them food. And then we can either turn them into laborers if they're not someone that Apollo wants to have sex with or turn them into pastorals. Now the bulk, again, the bulk of the people that are, are, are grabbed and are kind of

trapped, not kind of, are trafficked, are men, right? Because he also needs workers, right? And these people are inducted into the church, they're made to sever ties with their family and they're told that they now have to pay dues. And the fact that these are street kids who have no money is unimportant because there's a way for them to pay dues, as this article from the Philippine Daily Inquirer in 2005 notes. To support their church, the members are reportedly forced to sell church products door to door

during the annual month of sacrifice, which lasts from November to January, which you may note, it's longer than a month. That was like, that, do you mean November 30th? Yeah, that's, that's, yeah, that's longer than a month. Yeah, longer than a month. Yeah. It's longer than a month, man. Yeah. Yeah. Now that is, yeah. Uh, so Apollo also just doesn't let his followers off with just that small amount of sacrifice. He also required people to sell rice cakes and other branded crap year round to fund the construction of a network of 17 radio stations and a satellite television station that could

reach 40 cities in the Philippines. Growth of this sort, the kind that was experienced by the KOJC is an exponential thing. And by 2007, Apollo was ready to expand into the United States, particularly towards the large Philippine expat community that existed in Southern California. There was only one problem. The kind of followers he might get in the US are likelier to have an understanding of their rights,

to understand like there's law enforcement they can go to, to understand there's media they can go to, to have like money that makes them less vulnerable to kidnapping like this, right? So maybe the locals aren't gonna be the best picks for pastorals, but he's not going to spend all of his time in the fucking palace that he's going to get for himself in Southern California without sex slaves, right?

He's not that kind of fellow. So there's only one way to make these two things work out. And that way, my friend, is a massive immigration scam. And that's what we're gonna talk about when we come back for part two. Propp. Amazing. How you feeling?

I am not happy and also, I'm not happy, period. You know what I'm saying? But also because the Southern California Filipino community, and I know that Sophie can attest, is such a big part of growing up out here. You know what I'm saying?

That even in the part of town I was in, it was like, you default, Filipinos, when they get here, they default to either being black as hell or Mexican adjacent, cause they end up in our hoods. So like, you know, I remember there was, like in my neighborhood, it was all these Cholos,

there was all these like Mexican gangs. And then there was these like other Cholos that kind of like, they talk like black dudes, you know what I'm saying? But they dress like, like Cholos, but then they look Asian. And I was like, what areolo's, but then they look Asian. And I was like, what are y'all?

But y'all go to the same churches we go to, because again, they Pentecostal. And then it's like, oh, so Manila Sunset. So that restaurant, that's not, that's not Mexican food. You know what I'm saying? Like, so I'm just saying all that to say, it's been such a community that we're so intertwined with That's not Mexican food. You know what I'm saying? Like, so I'm just saying all that to say, it's been such a community that we're so intertwined with

to know more of this past is like, will I be, will I be? You know, it sucks, but it's just like, dang, that's what y'all been going, y'all was going to the whole time while we was going through the war on drugs. That's what was happening with y'all, you know? Anyway.

All right, everybody. Well, just out here selling Jesus's calamansi, just hollow, hollow for Jesus. Anyway. I'm going to sell something. I don't know what, but you know what? Sophie's gonna be angry. And that's the note to end on.

Yep. Skadoosh. Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com slash at Behind the Bastards. Hey, I'm Gianna Predenti. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadston. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career.

That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Morrie Tehary-Pore. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation,

then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey y'all, Nimmini here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

I'm going deep undercover. It's hard to visualize you with hair. To expose the secret world of professional shoplifting. So you can make a thousand dollars a day shoplifting. Yeah. And I end up outside the mansion of the shoplifting queen herself. I hear the cops. Dude, I think we should go. Listen to Queen of the Con Season 6, The California Girls, on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. corruption, that we're turning her beloved country into a mafia state. to the iHeartTrueCrimePlus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams.

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