Behind the Bastards - Part One: Louis van Schoor: The Deadliest Security Guard in History

Episode Date: August 13, 2024

Robert sits down with Molly Conger to discuss a weird little guy of South African Apartheid, serial murdering security guard Louis Van Schur. Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube! New videos every Wednesday and Friday. (Backlog episodes on Saturdays until we catch up) Subscribe to our channel: Youtube.com/@behindthebastards    Sources: Mass killer Louis van Schoor tells BBC of police collusion Mom-killer tells of 'hard life' | News24 Blood ties | South Africa | The Guardian Serial killer freed after 12 years in prison (iol.co.za) EXCLUSIVE | Workers at failed Eastern Cape farm want serial killer 'mentor' Van Schoor back (dispatchlive.co.za) Apartheid killer finds religion but not remorse – The Mail & Guardian (mg.co.za) How racist mass killer milks the poor (timeslive.co.za) The colour of murder : one family's horror exposes a nation's anguish : Holland, Heidi : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive ‘A CRITICAL STUDY ON THE AND LEGAL ANALYSIS OF THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT OF SECTION 49 (2) CRIMINAL PROCEDURE ACT, 57 OF 1977 AMENDMENT BILL, 2010’ (up.ac.za) https://www.zubeidajaffer.co.za/van-riebeecks-hedge/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Oh, welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a podcast where I, the host, Robert Evans, am pretty hungover because last night I saw Twisters. Molly, Molly Conger, our guest for today. Have you seen Twisters or Twister? You know, the classic film that it's based on? I assume I've seen the original, you know, in snippets on TNT as a child. You wouldn't forget it.

One of the great Bill Paxton roles. So Twisters 2 is like the son of the original Twister. They just put an S on it, which is fun. It's a fine movie. There's not more tornadoes than there were in Twister, but Twister, there's about four minutes of Twister that isn't actively a tornado. Like that movie really gives you a lot of Twisters,

and so does Twisters. But it's the son of the original tornado trying to reckon with his father's legacy. Well, that's one of the through lines with both movies is that the main character in a twister movie has always lost loved ones to a tornado and is trying to fight the tornado for revenge and in this one they develop a way to kill Tornadoes and so that's that's what they're trying to do is murder a tornado and vengeance because she lost all of her friends to a tornado It was described to me by a friend who saw it

as Glenn Powell in a very long Wrangler jeans ad. Oh, he is. So you know, Molly, how some of those Alex Jones freaks believe in race-specific bioweapons, like they made a disease that only targets white people or can't hurt Jews or whatever, right? Twister, this time it's personal. The guy in Twister, his jeans are like, they were DNA coded for him.

Like you couldn't get a fit of jeans that tight unless they were literally grown around your body. Wasn't that a thing for a while, where like the denim guys were like, wearing their jeans in the bathtub and then letting them dry to their body. I mean, I don't I don't feel like that's a thing anyone would do on a regular basis. No, it was like, you know, the guys who like blogged about, you know, they didn't wash

their jeans, they put them in a freezer instead. I don't understand jeans guys. I never liked jeans. But this movie is great. It's got a really good truck. They're all Ram trucks, unfortunately, but one of the trucks is really good. It shoots fireworks at the tornadoes,

which winds up being a critical part of fighting the tornadoes. Well, how else would you get whatever you're putting in the tornado into the tornado? You gotta be able to shoot the tornado, yeah. I mean, I guess you could feed it to a cow. I know the Twister likes to eat cows. They only feed things to the tornado

in a way that is the most dangerous they could possibly do. Although one of the other through lines in the Twister universe is that automotive glass is invulnerable. Cannot be harmed. Well, they're driving cyber trucks. It's great stuff. Great movie. What's different about them is the first movie is like Oklahoma porn in that you're watching Oklahoma be destroyed. And that's great because it's a terrible place. For people like you especially, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This one, it's like Oklahoma porn, but they love Oklahoma, although they do have the tornado attack a rodeo, which is a great seat. I hope party bus, the rodeo bowl was safe. I think the well no actually the bulls get sucked up. A lot of things get sucked into tornadoes in this movie. There's a high body count. It's great good movie. I enjoyed it. I got very drunk and now my head hurts. How are you Molly? Oh I'm doing great today. Robert

would you buy the Glenn Powell jeans? No, because those jeans would clearly only fit Glenn Powell. Yeah. No, and you're at a phase of your life now where comfortable pants are an affordable luxury. I like to think Glenn Powell's either 3D printed, made from AI or the ink, might've just run out a little bit.

Hold on, I'm Googling Glenn Powell. I don't know what that is. He's one of those guys who's handsome in a way that like, I can't like, there's nothing about him that I can say is like not good looking, but also it's off. It's upsetting kind of like Anthony star from the boys, which, which works for the role that he's playing. There's just something a little bit uncomfortable about how good looking he is. And Glen Powell, he's got like, he's got like resting family annihilator face.

Like one of those guys who, there's a terrible crime lingering inside you somewhere. Yeah. Did this man exist before? I've never, he doesn't look familiar to me at all. I don't know if I'd seen him in anything before, Twisters. I believe since he has been- Probably since, by kids 3D. No, he's been. I don't know if I'd seen him in anything before, Twisters. I believe he has been. He's been by Kids 3D.

No, he's been everywhere for like the last year. It's been very big in my group chat. We've been talking about why this man is being forced upon all of us. And now he's reached you, Robert. He's getting to you. I gotta say, honestly, downgrade from Bill Paxton. But what isn't a downgrade from Bill Paxton?

That man had a great face. Oh, Bill. And that, and now that is the cold open. Cold open is done. Is it done? Oh shit. Molly, today we're talking about apartheid. Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast

is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal weekly on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2001, Police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode. before escaping into the wilderness.

Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me, I'm going down in the cave. as I track down clues. I'm gonna call the police and have you removed. Hunting, One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fischer,

Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. In the early morning hours of September 6, 2016, St. Louis rapper and activist Darren Seals was found murdered. That's what they gonna learn. Own for death, own for nothing. Every day Darren would tell her, all right, Ma, be prepared, they are going to try to kill me all episodes available now Listen to after the uprising the murder of Darren Seals on the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh

And we're back apartheid I hardly know Tide that doesn't the joke doesn't work that way. I was like, it worked in writing. No one here speaks Dutch. It doesn't really work in writing, yeah. I liked it in writing. Cause Theod's not a thing, you know?

Or a name or anything like that. Molly, this is not just about apartheid, right? I mean, it's set during apartheid. I'm not just gonna do an apartheid episode because I don't know, that just doesn't feel like the behind the bastards way to do this. Apartheid didn't really have a childhood we can examine. Yeah, well, arguable. But you know, you have your new podcast, Weird Little Guys coming

out where you talk about all of the weird little guys trying to ruin life for everybody else. These crazy little Nazis who become mass shooters and terrorists and commit all sorts of wacky crimes and also are like always into bizarre shit besides that kind of stuff. It turns out they're usually perverts. Yeah, they're usually some kind, usually sex crimes, usually some sort of pervert shit.

The first couple of scripts I've written, I'm like, I did not choose a trio of child sex perverts on purpose. It's just always there. Yeah, Twitter and stuff loves to make fun of middle-aged kinks who are really into whatever their weird kink is. But I do think that being able to talk about it in a way that is cringe-worthy to 90% of the population

probably helps stop you from, I don't know, setting off a bomb in a post office. Like you need to do something with that pervert energy that's not just perversion, otherwise it can curdle. Now we don't know what perversion the subject of our episode for this week has, but this is we are going to talk, Molly, about a weird little guy.

And this is appropriate, a weird little guy of apartheid. This guy is appropriate both because of your show and because on the week we record this, one of the big news stories is that a right-wing paramilitary mob supported by members of the Knesset has laid siege to an IDF base in Israel in defense of soldiers who carried out gang rape and torture on Palestinian prisoners. You know, the gist of the story, not that this is a story you should just get the gist of, you should read some reporting on it,

but the gist of it is they won. Those guys got released and that's pretty bad. There was some talk that like, oh, is Israel heading down the road of a civil conflict? But they just caved on, it's totally fine if our guys, like the kind of shit they were doing to some of these captives was like, there was a debate in the Knesset about it,

and one lawmaker was like, is it legitimate to shove a stick into someone's rectum? And another parliamentarian was like, yeah, if he's a Hamas militant, everything is legitimate. And it's first off- I disagree. I disagree with that if they are Hamas militants, but they're usually not,

like you're just picking people up off the street. We know that in a lot of these cases, it's a lot of people who are getting grabbed for absolutely no reason, which is always, by the way, always the case when a government is grabbing a bunch of terrorists and torturing them. It's always some dudes,

and ladies and whatever, kids. But it's usually not the scary thing they say it is. They found a way to make prison break uncool. Like normally a mob storming a prison would be a feel good story. I know, normally I love mob storming prisons, yeah. Not this mob. But they really wrecked it. They really wrecked it. Yeah, yeah.

It's kinda like how a lot of people are hating the Olympics, which normally I'm in favor of, but they're doing it for all of the weird, crazy, gross reasons. Like, no, no, you don't hate the Olympics for that, not because some lady won a boxing match. You hate the Olympics for all of the good reasons to hate the Olympics.

Not because it's, you know, satanic grooming of your children. What can you just mess that up? God damn it. You were ruining the things that I have been hating long before you did. Anyway, it's bad to torture people. There's no justification for what we're seeing in Israel now, which is, you know, I think a dark turn.

This stuff has been going on for a while. The reporting on the torture at that base had come out through like New York Times had done a story on it, as well as some like local Israeli papers. So it's been like pretty heavily reported. And this kind of thing, it's the inevitable result of building an apartheid state, right? You saw a lot of shit like this in South Africa, because you had these chunk of the population who were, you know, terrorists

carrying out the what they saw was liberatory acts of terrorism. You know, Nelson Mandela, like was a terrorist, right? Like that's the reality of the situation. And whenever you have that, the apartheid state is going to respond by demonizing the chunk of the population that those terrorists come out of and doing horrible, horrible things to them, including generally horrific acts of police violence. The police are going to be oftentimes your ground level enforcers of the very worst parts

of this society. That's true everywhere. Stuff like this happens. We could talk, and we have talked in the past, about the use of dogs against black detainees by US police during the Jim Crow era. Obviously aspects of that continue on for today, but a lot of how dogs were used to do violence to black people, particularly during the civil rights era, is directly relevant to stuff that happened in apartheid South Africa.

Every single time you have any sort of apartheid regime being held in place, and it's always held in place by police. There's always really, really fucked up dog stories, right? It happens every single time. And it's actually going to happen in this story because the subject of our episodes is a, he's a guy who winds up as a security guard. He's probably a serial killer.

It's probably fair to call him a serial killer. He's definitely a serial killer. It's probably fair to call him a serial killer. He's definitely a serial murderer. And he was also a dog cop in apartheid South Africa. His name- That's the worst kind of cop. Oh yeah, no, we'll be talking about, and of all the dog cops, South African apartheid era dog cops

might be the worst dog cops. These guys, pretty ugly stuff. His name was Louis Benchour. Now, because this is an apartheid episode, it is gonna be bleak as all hell. And because this is an episode about South Africa, thankfully, it will also involve ridiculous names. So we do have that coming for us, right, Molly?

I will promise you some very silly names. And we can pronounce the Dutch as badly as we want. We're not gonna do well. We're not gonna do well. Like this first name, my god, our bad guy's full name was Cybrand Jacobus Lodewicus Van Sure. Which- And we're not looking up

how to actually pronounce that. Nope, no. We're not. No, we're not. He doesn't deserve it. Although I will tell you, Lodewicus is where we get the Lewis, which I guess makes sense. Like if I knew a Lodewicus is where we get the Lewis, which I guess makes sense. Like if I knew a Lodewicus, I would probably call him Lewis,

because that's quite a name to have to say. Although I do think I'm getting the Wicus part right, just because I watched the movie, District Nine in preparation for this, you know? Which really, really reminded me how much CGI has aged in the last, what has it been, 20 years? Anyway, Cybrand Jacobus Ludwikus Van Schoor was born at some point in 1951 in South Africa.

This is one of those guys where we really don't know a whole lot about his childhood. Given where he lived much of his life, he may have been born in East London, which is a city, not a part of London, because South Africa, you know, when British people had their time running South Africa, they just kind of named a bunch of shit after places they had left behind because it was too wet and dreary, which is what they did to a lot of the world. Just bringing a little bit of home. Yeah, bringing a little bit of home along with your terrible cuisine. Now, I hope most listeners are at least broadly familiar

with the concept of apartheid in South Africa, which literally means separateness and Afrikaans. What became South Africa, the country, started as a colony of the Dutch East India Company in the 17th century. The mission initially was purely capitalist and most mercenary since imaginable. The most notable early official was a guy named Jan von Rybek, who arrived in 1652 to set up a refreshment station for passing cargo ships.

His job was to make money delivering as much quality agricultural product into the holds of company ships as possible. But greed led the company to take more and more good farmland, which pissed off the people who had been living there for, you know, a long time and didn't care much for the fact that all these white people were now saying, you can't walk around here, you can't hunt here, you know, like you can't, like we've got this now.

We need it for our, for our boats to take away. So they launched raids on company farms and there's some small battles between guards and local warriors. Much of the violence is centered around or in response to cattle raids by the indigenous Kukoi people. Van Rybek felt like the problem could be solved

by making it more of a pain in the ass for the Kukoi to access their ancestral lands. So in 1659, he had his forces start to build a giant fence. As is always the case, whenever you build a fence with guard towers, you're gonna do some fucked up shit, right, like no story that started with, let's build a giant fence ever ended very well. And this fence is no different from that.

Since fences are hard to build, he enlisted the aid of mother nature and planted a huge hedge of wild almond trees and thorny scrubs across sections he didn't want to bother using work gangs on. What is he, Maleficent? Like building a big thorny hedge around- It's a very Disney racism fence that Jan has created here.

I mean, I guess that's eco-friendly, right? Was he using native species? Yeah, you can't fault him for being green. I will say that. Like he at least is an environmentally friendly architect of the earliest stages of the apartheid system. As an article on the hedge fence by Zubeda Jaffer notes, for many this hedge marks the first step

on the road to apartheid and symbolizes how white South Africa cut itself off from the rest of Africa, dispossessed the indigenous people, and kept the best of the resources for itself. Now, Dutch colonial possessions didn't stay limited to the land they'd taken in van Rijbeck's era, and over the next century and a half, white colonizers who came to call themselves Boers moved towards the interior. They eventually collided with a migration of Bantu people, and great violence proceeded from their clash that ensued for, you know, they had a war, they had wars and

stuff. Alas for the Bowers, and for everyone else really, the British were also really interested in having some of this land, and willing to deploy better, more competent violence to do it. They took the Cape Colony in 1795, abolished Dutch as the language of administration because fuck you guys, that's why. And by the end of the 1800s, you know, things are sailing along well. The British Empire's giant, they got a whole bunch of South Africa, everybody's happy, except for nobody is actually very happy. Now, I should note that while the British, there's some things you can say that they

like improve race-wise during the time they're in charge of South Africa. For instance, they end slavery, right? Like within the British empire, which includes this. Slavery becomes legal in the mid 1800s. But they also pass some of the first race laws. Like a lot of the laws that become the undergirding legal parts of the apartheid system start as British colonial laws. So it's a lot of the laws that become the undergirding legal parts of the apartheid system start

as British colonial laws. So it's a mix of things. The whole story is bigger than we're going to get to in this episode, but this paragraph from journalist Heidi Holland's book The Color of Murder does a decent job of setting up the next few moves. Around 1838, clinging to a dream of racial exclusivity but leaving behind their homes in the fields they had cultivated, the Afrikaners set out to escape the British by migrating northwards across the Drakensberg Mountains into Natal and over the Orange River into the Transvaal.

The Great Trek, some bloody 19th century battles with Zulu warriors, and their defeat in the war with the British 70 years later helped create a fierce nationalism among the Afrikaners. The concentration camps of the Anglo-Boer War, in which men, women, and children perished at the hands of the British, left Afrikaners a profoundly defeated tribe with a defensive psyche that was to have disastrous repercussions in later years. Now, we've talked in this podcast about how one of the first modern concentration camps was set up by the British during the Boer War, and they were interning, they interned black South Africans and Boers, right. And they killed a significant chunk of the Boer population through, uh, this,

these camps, like these were really terrible places. I hadn't thought until they read Heidi's book about how that chapter played into the apartheid government. Right. It makes sense when you think about these sense, the fact that any reading you do of like white culture in South Africa during apartheid, there's this constant sense of life under siege

and this constant sense of a grievance, right? We are owed something that we don't have. We are owed domination, right? We are owed almost this vengeance because of the things that have been are owed domination, right? We are owed almost this vengeance because of the things that have been done to us, right? The sense of persecution is a major fueling factor for apartheid, right? Like the fact that the British kicked the shit out of them is a big part of why they're going to be so shitty for so long, right? It has a, it's that kind of like, I have now been bullied and I am going to go find someone

weaker to bully the hell out of. Right. Like that's that's a big part of the actual psyche of apartheid. It just seems like they should have taken that beef with the British back home. Like go do that in the English Channel or something. Yeah. Go fuck up the British. Like come on guys.

You know I'm just gonna I'm just gonna throw it out here. Take Manchester. You can probably take Manchester. They don't have that many guns anymore. I bet you guys have it out here. Take Manchester. You probably take Manchester. They don't have that many guns anymore I bet you guys have more guns go take Manchester, you know Nobody's gonna comply if somebody's like hey, you want to come to a free Manchester from the Bowers rally? I'm gonna say no let them have it. I'm fine with that. That just doesn't sound like my business Yeah, it's not my business. That's something happens to Manchester

Some what do they call Mancunians? They're going to be really mad, Robert. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, there's going to be a lot of Mancunian terrorism in Johannesburg, but that's not my problem either. Now, British victory in the Boer War came not long before the outbreak of World War One. And if you know your colonial history, you know that the British Empire didn't have a long, healthy life after that point, right?

South Africa becomes independent pretty early. It's the same status Canada has. Obviously, as Americans, it's Molly and I's divine right to not know how the Canadian government actually works. So I don't actually know if the British have any power in Canada anymore. I don't think so. I'm pretty sure you guys have your training wheels off, but I'm not going to check that out. Do the swans in Canada belong to the king too?

I feel like all swans belong to one of the kings. But yeah, I don't understand it at all. I also feel like, you know, well, actually the Canadians beat us in the one war we had with them, but whatever. I don't think they could do it again. Yeah, I don't think they'd win this time, right? I don't know, maybe if it was like, no, I think the Great Lakes.

I think actually, if I'm remembering the documentary Operation Canadian Bacon well enough, or was that the name of that John Goodman movie? I gotta look this up now, Molly. Have you seen this movie? I think you're making it up. No, no, no, it's a it's a it's a John Goodman movie Where a bunch of yokels from the Great Lakes region invade, Canada

It's a classic I need to watch it with garrison. Oh, the film is just Canadian bacon. Okay. Okay So that seems kind of a mouthful for a title. Yeah. Well Canadian bacon is a fine title. It's a good movie. Anyway, so yeah, South Africa gets its independence pretty early in the 19th century, more or less. But domestic peace is elusive. There are tensions not only between black and white, but between English speaking whites and Boers. Eventually, the Afrikaners won in 1948 and the National Party came to power, pushing a program of enforced racial separatism backed by state violence.

This is kind of when apartheid officially slides into being. You had aspects of that enforced by racial laws that had pre-existed back to the colonial era, but it's the national party that comes to power with the promise of basically we are going to separate white and black people, right? Like that's our program. One of the first architects of the system is a guy named Hendrick Verwaard, who became leader of the country. He started out as the, he was the education minister initially. I think he used to be a teacher. And he's a very racist guy, described in a speech his belief that black citizens could never be more

than hewers of wood and drawers of water. So that's a good basis for a stable society. Race becomes a strictly managed legal category, marked an ID card, something that delineated when and where people could travel and exist legally. Now this is not a natural state of affairs. It doesn't work very well for very long in any of the places in the world that try versions of affairs. It doesn't work very well for very long in any of the places in the

world that try versions of this, and it always has to be enforced through state violence. In South Africa, the government developed a wide variety of tools, civil and military, for this purpose. One of these tools was Section 49 of the Criminal Procedures Act, which established a legal obligation for police to interfere in criminal activity and to find the degree of force they were allowed to use to do it. Section 49 and its predecessors had existed in various forms in South African law back to the colonial era, but the most significant amendment of the apartheid era came in 1977. It read as follows, if any person authorized under this act to arrest or assist in arresting

another attempts to arrest such person and such person resists the attempt and cannot be arrested without the use of force or flees when it is clear that an attempt to arrest him is being made or resists such attempt and flees. The person so authorized may, in order to affect the arrest, use such force as may in the circumstances be reasonably necessary to overcome the resistance or to prevent the person concerned from fleeing. Where the person concerned is to be arrested for an offense referred to in Schedule 1, or is to be arrested on the grounds that he is reasonably suspected of having committed

such an offense, and the person authorized under this act to arrest or to assist in arresting him, cannot arrest or prevent him from fleeing by other means than by killing him. The killing shall be deemed justifiable. So they just sort of codified what cops already do when they shoot a 14 year old boy in the back. Yes. And they this is as you noted, not so different from how the cop the law treats police in the United States.

Now that is a process that developed here, it becoming more normal, not that cops haven't always used violence, but it becoming as normal as it is for police to shoot fleeing people. That has become more normal, right? As laws have been added to the United States and as court cases have kind of increased

the amount of immunity that police have in situations like that. Apartheid South Africa, pretty early on, codifies a system of immunity that allows cops to shoot people in the back. And unlike- The difference is, it doesn't allow it. It sounds like it mandates it.

It could be argued to mandate it, right? Because whereas American police, you know, over and over again, this goes to court, courts say, no, if cops don't want to do anything, they don't have to. They're not obliged to intervene. They're not obliged to help. But I thought you said that they are required to intervene. That's how the law, I don't think anyone, I've never come across cases of people being

punished for not shooting someone in the back, but there's basically the law says you have to, you have to intervene if you like are one of these kinds of people authorized by this act and you think that you like you come across a crime, right? And you are one of these kinds of people authorized by this act and you think that you come across a crime. You are allowed, if you choose to, to use lethal force if someone tries to run away from you. Not just self-defense, but if someone is fleeing arrest. This law, another way in which it differs from how the US treats stuff like this, because obviously our cops do this shit all the time. In South Africa, the law can extend to a wider variety of white citizens,

including people working as security guards for local businesses, right? Oh, that's not who you want doing this. No, no, it is not. That's not good. No, it is not, and it is not going to end well. One South African legal expert analyzing this law before it was amended in 1998 noted as described in a study by Karthigisi Samikisnan of the University of Unpertoria, in response to the conferment of such open-ended powers

on the arrester to shoot and kill, for instance, a young child who had stolen or was reasonably suspected of having stolen an item of such relatively trivial value as an apple and who had fled an arrest could be shot. Oh no. So like at this point we're talking like CVS, door security guard, rent a cop, just shooting children.

Yeah, you jack an apple and the rent a cop can empty a nine millimeter into your back. Perfectly legal. I feel like that's gonna escalate really fast. It's going to happen a lot. Now this brings us back to our weird little guy for this episode, Louis Van Schoor. Now I found very little that's verifiable

about his childhood and early life. His father was a cruel authoritarian who bullied him. He's basically said by some people who knew him that like his dad never gave him a break. He was probably an abused kid, right? It's probably fair to say he was abused as a kid. He would certainly have been exposed to outrageous levels of racism

because he is a white kid in apartheid South Africa. I will say, I'm not sure this guy is actually particularly racist for white people in apartheid South Africa. I do actually have to note that. I don't think he's motivated by racism. We'll talk about this, because this is debatable. I think this guy is just a serial killer.

And the best way to do that is going to be getting into law enforcement in apartheid South. That's the easiest way to get away with murdering people. But I think it's the murdering he's motivated by, more than the color of the people he's murdering, right? Just a great opportunity. It's just a really, it's really easy to get away with murdering poor black people in apartheid South Africa. If you're a cop and that's why he wants to be a cop,

that's my take on it, but we'll see where you land. So schooling is not something that interests Lewis and he drops out at age 16 to join the police. He starts carrying a gun immediately. As soon as he drops out at age 16 to join the police. He starts carrying a gun immediately as soon as he drops out of school. He is an armed police officer, is a teenage boy. I can't think of a problem with that system. Really bad idea, the worst person to give a gun in a batch.

The fact that he would get to carry a gun seems to have been a major part of like why he wanted to do this, right? Like he specifically became a cop because he wanted to walk around with a gun. Van Schoor was big. He's a physically powerful guy. Basically everyone who meets him, even as an old man, is like, yeah, he was like physically a very imposing man.

And he is never afraid of violence. The police in South Africa in those days had a special use for men like that, enforcing the increasingly unpopular apartheid system through hideous violence. Now, as in the United States, a great deal of police racial violence was accomplished using dogs, and Van Schoor was quickly promoted to work as a handler in the dog unit. South African police had established dog units initially for detective work in rural areas and gold mines after 1910. Many of the first detection dogs were used for tracking and by the 1930s there were several hundred police dogs in service and a breeding program. I do love that a dog

barked right as I was reading that. Yeah, that was perfect. She's mad. Now, poor dogs. Although these, the dogs they breed in South Africa to be race violence dogs are pretty brutal animals. You do have to say. Oh, do you know what kind of dogs they were fond of? They start with like German shepherds, but they kind of breed their own, like these are our South African

doing race violence dogs, right? Oh, they made special ones. Everyone kind of does. You know, when you develop your own system or South African doing race violence dogs, right? Oh, they made special ones. Everyone kind of does. Really? When you develop your own system of race-based, dog-based, race-based violence, you're gonna make your own dogs for it.

Everyone's a little different. The kind of racism you wanna do in the, Mississippi with dogs might be different than the kind of racism you wanna do in Pretoria, or in Highland or wherever. Yeah. Right. Exactly. It's important. Like with the racism hedge, you know what you want to use native flora and fauna. Exactly. Exactly. Thank you. Thank you for understanding, Molly. I'm trying to see a picture of these dogs. I'm just trying to delay talking about dogs. Yeah. So

police dogs, there's initially like if the police, like the dogs are just for tracking, right? And if they're used to harm suspects, there's like penalties and stuff that have to be paid. But you know, Molly, speaking of using dogs to brutalize captive populations, you know, our audience is kind of a captive population. And here's these ads. You know, our audience is kind of a captive population. And here's these ads.

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This is a fire in my partner life. This court is on fire. In the early morning hours of September 6, 2016, St. Louis rapper and iconic Ferguson activist Darren Seals was found shot dead. Every day Darren would tell her, they are going to try to kill me. A young man in 2016 was killed on this block. I'm a podcast journalist. And I'm a former state senator, Maria Chappelle-Nadal.

I was in the movement with Darren, and I've spent two years with co-host Ray Nowashevsky, investigating his death. Even if I did want to tell you something, that's a dangerous game to play. FBI did this to myself. They've been following him for months. That's enough proof right there. All episodes available now. Listen to After the Uprising Season 2, The Murder of Darren Seals on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. What was happening there? What are you doing?

Did you forget what you were doing? What happened? Nothing. We're back. We're back. We're here. Why not? So there were initially penalties when police dogs were used to harm suspects.

But as dogs who would, harm suspects, but as dogs who had, you know, were like, they started using dogs more and more, less for like crimes out in the bush and more for like gang crime. And then for crowd control, for breaking up particularly strikes and riots. And once that happens, the kind of the prescription against using dogs to hurt people goes away very quickly, right? Professor Sandra Swart studies the use of dogs in apartheid policing, and she claims, quote, things changed fast with the increasingly heavy hand

of the apartheid state. In 1961, an SAPS study tour to Europe shifted the focus of canine policing. Sharpeville had occurred, and the police wanted a different kind of dog, one that could impose physical and psychological order on the African population. New dogs, mainly German shepherds, were imported, bred, and donated.

The force was multiplied with an emphasis on force. Yeah, they have this big protest riot thing and they're like, we need to tear some people up with dogs. Like, that's how we're gonna keep a lid on this hole. No one likes apartheid thing. I think I might rather get shot. Well, yeah, of course. Like almost certainly.

Yes, absolutely. I'm much less scared of a, well, like a normal dog bite. I'm much less scared of than a bullet, but a mauling by a German shepherd, I think I would prefer taking my chances with a round of nine millimeter. One bullet hole, you can stitch that up. Yeah, geez, I mean, neither of them's a great option,

but yeah, I've seen, I've been around too many really bad dog fights, you know, to wanna, now I'm not running them, you know, I'm not running them, okay? Great clarification, Robert. They just happen a lot, you know, you live out in the country. Robert Evans, dog fight ring over.

People don't take care of their dogs. Everyone's on methamphetamine. Not me, but everyone else. A lot of dogs have a lot of fights is what I'm saying. What you're telling me is that you did meth at a dog fight. That's basically what I got from that as well. There's pieces of that in my life, Molly, but not the whole picture.

We did show up Oklahoma. It wasn't in Oklahoma. I mean, I saw dog fights in Oklahoma, but I was too young to be doing that. Molly, in 1976, midway through Lewis's policing career, dogs became targets of guerrilla attacks on the police. A school uprising that year began with the killing of a police dog.

And some pro, like, so I can't, obviously the dogs aren't at fault, they're dogs, but I also can't blame people who are being mauled by dogs from murdering police dogs. And they would do it- I must regrettably respect it. They would do it pretty brutally. They necklaced some of these dogs,

which was a method of, it started out, it was a way that like, within sort of like black communities in South Africa, if you had other black people kind of like talking to the cops, right? Like rolling on folks, you would necklace them, right? And it extends to, you know, they do it to some captured dogs eventually.

They do it to other people too. But it's basically you fill a tire with gasoline and you stick it over a person and you light it on fire. It's a way of saying, don't do what this guy did. Or in the case of the dogs, don't do what this dog did. Now, I think the people who might be thinking of talking to the cops probably understand the message. I don't think the dogs do, but nobody's,

nobody, when you're fighting a, you know, effectively trying to overthrow your government, everything you do isn't gonna be squeaky clean, right? It's an ugly, ugly thing. I mean, it's like Data told Picard, sometimes terrorism is the answer. Sometimes terrorism is the answer. Although I do think maybe you didn't need

to necklace the dogs, but I'm not gonna backseat overthrow the apartheid. I'm not gonna backseat overthrow the apartheid government of you, you know? You guys did what you thought you had to do. Molly and I are not your target audience for necklace dog apologists. We're not your target audience.

But these dogs were evil. The dogs weren't evil. necklace dog apologists. Or not, you're trying to get at it. Yeah. But these dogs were evil. The dogs weren't evil, they were being used for an evil purpose. And if you're the person being mauled by the dog, I understand that like, you're not gonna think about the animals well being. The dogs were innocent.

And to be fair, none of those dogs, none of them meet a fine end. I mean, even still today, in modern American policing, the average police dog dies from being left meet a fine end. I mean, even still today, in modern American policing, the average police dog dies from being left in a hot car. Yep, it happens a lot. They do it a lot. I just don't understand how that happens anywhere.

Do you people not know? Like, it's the same that when people do it to babies, like, how are we still having this problem? Anyway, whatever. Lewis is not a particularly noteworthy dog cop and without access to detailed police records, only a few of which still exist, we have to turn to other documented history

for an idea of the kinds of things Lewis was doing with his police dog. I found a story related in an article by the Stellenbosch Institute for Advanced Study based on a lecture by Professor Sandra Swart. This story is from 1998, so four years after the official end of apartheid, but a lot of the different things that were put in place for apartheid legally are still in place, and we can assume this represents maybe a less extreme example of the kind of violence

Lewis would have been involved in. Police of the East Rand dog unit arrested three Mozambican immigrants looking for work. The police initially demanded a bribe, then turned the suspects in debate, bypassing two dogs who didn't bite to bring in Rex, a proper South African police dog who knew how to hurt. The resulting video showed the tasting blood method, a shocking video of snarling savagery and a terrible failure for the immediate post-apartheid state. The video, complete with laughter, was regularly shown at police bribes until it was leaked

to the media and policemen were arrested and imprisoned. The incident strongly reflected the broken relationship between the citizenry and the police, the brute power of the state and the state's power of the brute. Bad dogs on the loose said Swart." And so that is, they have this tasting blood method of like basically letting the dogs rip people up in order to get them into a frenzy. And this video of police shaking down people for bribes and then having their dog maul them, police are like playing it at police gatherings for each other as like entertainment. Like you guys wanna watch our colleagues fuck up these dudes with their terrifying dog?

Like that's how apartheid cops, all these guys had been apartheid cops. That's how they like relaxed, you know? So these are the kind of people that Lewis is. This is who we're talking about, right? Right, it's not regrettable violence for them. It's like a fun hobby. It's a fun hobby.

It's a perk of the job that you get to have a dog rip a person to shreds. That's why you take this gig. He described his job with the police in one interview as handling attacker dogs, which he sicked on people he always described as protesters and criminals. Nearly all of these people, he admitted, were black.

He said of this that it was, quote, hunting but a different species. And I don't fully know what he meant by that. I think I know what he meant by that. But there's actually a couple of things he could mean there. Yeah, that really works on two terrible levels. Yeah, are you saying it's like hunting a different species

than you normally hunt? Or a different species from you. Then you wouldn't say it's like hunting a different species than you normally hunt? Or a different species from you. Then you wouldn't say it's like hunting but a different species, because usually hunting isn't the same species as you, right? Most people don't hunt the same species they are. I don't know. I don't actually understand entirely

what he was saying there. Maybe it's a different species of hunting? I don't know. Yeah, no, that's not good. It's not good on any level. It's not good on any level and it's confusing different species of hunting, you know? I don't know. Yeah, no, it's, that's not good. It's not good on any level, right? It's not good on any level and it's confusing wordplay. Does he normally hunt people, but he doesn't see black people as people?

Like, there's a lot of- He does hunt people, but they are all black people. Now, this is not an episode on the use of police dogs, but I do find the subject fascinating. And before we continue with Lewis's story, I wanna read one more quote about his job by Swart. Quote, police dogs were creatures poised between citizenry and state, between technology and sentience, agency and training, between good and evil and always between nose and teeth. And I think that's a great quote about police

dogs, but I also think it describes Lewis pretty well. Right? Right. He is this, he is this creature positioned between the citizenry, the, the citizenry and the state and kind of reduced to animal violence in order to serve a role protecting the state from its citizenry, you know? And this sort of like barely contained, like snapping its jaws at the end of the leash. Barely sentient, barely capable of thought, right? Like that's Lewis and that's these dogs that are bred just to maim people. Numerous friends and family members describe Lewis

as not a bright guy and someone who was often prone to violence. His colleagues on the force may have believed that this may have been something he did out of insecurity, that he was so violent because he thought he was dumb. One colleague said, he was not a clever bloke, but he would go to hell and back to get his man. It was his way of proving

that he was as good as the others, right? Like I don't have smarts, so I'm gonna have to compensate by being extra fucking aggressive. I've met some cops, that sounds right. That's a cop, yeah, that sounds about right. Now, the picture biographer, Heidi Holland paints of Lewis suggests a man who was perhaps performatively macho,

if not reflexively so. On the sports field, the whole King Lewis was able to show his physical talent more convincingly, playing flanker for the police rugby team and earning provincial colors in the Eastern Capes tug of war squad, he also starred in four wheel drive challenges. Racing over hillsides and beaches

in his super powered Land Rover with its monster mag wheels and heavy black roll bar, dressed in shorts with the ever ready holster on his hip, Lewis felt happy according to his first wife. To keep fit, he ran cross country barefoot, a beer swilling man's man. He was by all accounts, well-liked in the police force and in East London's white community generally.

I hate that this guy's a barefoot runner too. I'm sorry, did you say that the police force has a tug of war team? They do, yes, yes, Molly. Is this a traditional South African sport? Yes, it's the only sport that South Africans love. That's probably not true, but I'm not feeling very charitable

towards South Africa today. Nor should you on any day. Yeah, I think it's actually, it's the Eastern Capes tug of war squad. So that might be just a tug of war squad that he was also in, and he's on the police rugby team too. So he's just playing like, like, in general sports. It may have just been like a local,

yeah, kind of sporting league thing, yeah. That's good. It's good for men to have hobbies. It's good for men to have hobbies. Considering what this guy does for a job, yeah, you really want him on his hobbies as much as possible. Just get out there and tug. It's good for men to have some hobbies. Asterisk, asterisk, asterisk.

Yeah, always a good idea. Lewis is well liked because the white residents of East London understood that their prosperity and comfort was undergirded by violence done by men like him. So what if he was stupid and boorish? Which he was. Lewis was a serial, you could call him a serial monogamist. He's married four times before age 40.

So he's not great at being married. He meets- Do these all end in divorce? Oh yeah, yes. Okay, they're alive though. Yes, they are alive. They are alive. You're not gonna be surprised to hear

that there's some spousal abuse in this story, but- Oh, he wasn't a kind husband? I feel like I barely even need to say that. Obviously I'm going to. He meets his second wife, Beverly, while she's married to someone else. One member of their church later told that journalist Heidi, he would go on fishing trips with Bev's husband

and then sneak away to be with her. So he's like driving this guy out to the woods to go fish and then just runs back home to fuck his wife. That seems like the least efficient way to do that. He's not a smart man. You have not, like normally a fishing trip is a good alibi, but not when you're with him. This guy always leaves.

Somehow the tactic worked. So maybe Bev just didn't like smart men. She's just like a big bruise idiot, I guess. Yeah, she leaves her husband for Lewis and the couple gets married in 1978. They set up a home with Beverly's three young sons on a small farm. So small-

Oh, he seems like the kind of guy who would be totally chill raising another man's sons. I bet that's not an issue for him. He actually is. He's actually fine with this. Like all of the kids say he never hurt us. So he's a wife beating serial killer, apartheid enforcer, but he's a good stepdad.

I don't think good, but like not bad in any particular way. Well, it's good I can still be surprised. Yeah, yeah. I kind of was like, oh boy, I bet this kid's doing, this guy's doing some fucked up shit too. And like, no, his kids like said, seem to feel pretty positively towards him. So I don't know.

Okay. Okay. I don't know. Okay. Okay. I judged unfairly. Yeah. These are, so he basically has a homestead, right? He and Bev are homesteading, right? And this is obviously something people in the US do. I do it.

But it's part of the white South African dream. It is a Boer tradition, right? Whose land was that before? Right, right. And that's a big part of like, I mean, it's a big part of like the American tradition too. Right? Like we're gonna go out onto some land

that used to be someone else's and build a homestead. You know? In 1979, Lewis and Bev had their first child, Sabrina. And Sabrina is going to be a very important part of the story for reasons that are quite surprising, but we'll get to that. Now, her sons, Beverly's sons, have testified that he beat,

Lewis beat their mother, right? Although they insist again, he was never violent towards them. His kids are really the only people that he's peaceful and kind of supportive to. Violence is never far from his behavior at the best of times though. One way Van Schuur made a place for himself

in the local community was by using his police skills to train dogs for other small farmers. One of the small farmers that he helped was a guy named Basil Nieman, who was later charged in court for sickening his German shepherds on an elderly black farm worker. Nieman later ran for parliament. Like this story of him going to court for mauling a man with dogs gets kind of famous. So he does sort of the right wing pivot from getting famous for being shitty and he runs for parliament.

Lewis campaigns for him, like handing out posters that show a growling German shepherd and the slogan, I'll be your watchdog. Yeah, the meaning of those sides was not missed by anybody. Right? Like, yeah. It's like Ted Kennedy running with fires and say like, you know, I'll-

I'll drive you guys home. I'll drive the legislative vehicle. Like- Yeah. Now for most of Lewis's life, South Africa had been embroiled in the Namibian War of Independence, which his people generally called the Angolan Bush War.

This was a hideous little conflict that ranged from the late 60s to 1990. And during parts of it, South African police were sent to the border and participated in aspects of the fighting, right? These are police being used to secure the border, but the nature of the conflict means that they are engaged in combat, right?

At least that happens sometimes. Now, Lewis would later claim that he hated these duties, which were dangerous and terrifying. His wife, Beverly, says that was nonsense and that he had actually volunteered to fight at the border because he really likes fighting. Given what we can verify about Lewis and what comes next, I'm pretty sure Bev is the one telling the truth here.

Wanting to fight in the Angolan Bush War is a very Lewis thing. So I'm gonna guess she's probably given us the truth more or less. Either way, Lewis quits the police in 1980. He says, "'Cause I just didn't wanna fight anymore." And Beverly is like, well, I made him quit the police because he was cheating on me constantly

and I wanted him to get a job closer to home so that he would cheat on me slightly less. And for a while- But at that point, girl, just get out. Yeah, Bev is kind of, Bev's a piece of shit too. That said, she deserves the abuse, but she's also going to be a terrible person in this story. So her judgment's not great, right?

Lewis does try to do as she asks for a while. He gets a job at a carpet store. What other skills does this man have? Yeah. Like there's no attack dogs at the carpet store. One of the interesting things, cause he's abusive to her, she is much smarter than him.

She becomes, she's like incredibly wealthy by the time she dies. Like she is a wildly successful entrepreneur. She just starts and runs numerous successful companies. There's an interesting dynamic going on between them. We don't get all of it, but he gets a job a wildly successful entrepreneur. She just starts and runs numerous successful companies. There's an interesting dynamic going on between them. We don't get all of it, but he gets a job at a carpet company that his wife owns.

But Louis Van Schuur, not the kind of man who wants to work at a carpet store, right? Like he's just not- Probably not a great salesman. Not a great salesman. Not a lot of adrenaline in selling carpets, you know? No, you can't bully a customer into buying a rug. Yeah, I think Lewis was the kind of guy

who would tell you he was made for action. My own argument might be that adrenaline and violence are both addictive and he was addicted to adrenaline and violence. But whatever you say about him, Lewis was good at violence. So before long, he started looking for another career path. He applied for work as a daytime security guard, but this was hardly any more

exciting than the carpet store. Desperate for action, he asked to rejoin the police. And this is one of the more interesting but unexplained parts of the story. The cops turned him down. Now we don't really know why. How old is he at this point? You know, he's in his like 30s, something like that, 40, closer than on 40. And you know, by this point, it's the early 1980s, mid 80s. And the apartheid regime is facing like a lot more condemnation from the international community. And the guerrilla war, right, has kind of with it from within has stepped up several notch. And a lot of the guerrilla war, right? Has kind of from within, has stepped up several notch. And a lot of these guerrilla, a lot of attacks, right?

A lot of the terrorist attacks on the state are inspired by police violence, right? Like the people who are trying to tear down the system get angry because the cops do something brutal and they carry out an attack, right? There is a decent chance people on the force were like, Louis was a great cop, you know, a decade ago or whatever, but we are in a different world now.

And if we have him on the force, he's going to do something that gets us bombed, right? Which is probably true, you know, like that's not an unwise. It would be the best idea any of those guys ever had. Yeah, yeah, we really do. He is not the man for this hour. Now that doesn't mean the racial regime in East London had no job for him though.

Eventually he was advised to seek work at a company owned by a former police major, Falcon Security. Now this is not a mall cop outfit. Its purview proceeded directly from a number of the social changes that had swept South Africa in the last few years. As I said, in 1977, the criminal code is amended to basically allow security guards to murder people

for running away. Up to the end of the 70s, most security firms had just provided silent alarms. And then police would come in to actually investigate and maybe arrest people. But this caused the cops to waste a lot of time on false alarms. And the police are like, we don't want to do this anymore.

Lewis's boss at Falcon, Major CJH Cloat, who's also a former cop, was one of the entrepreneurs who sailed into the gap with a new kind of full service security firm. Major Cloat later told a reporter, I know Van Schoor was the kind of bloke that liked to use his firearm. That I know because I killed one

and he used to say, ha, I'm ahead of you. This is not Legolas and Ghibli in War of the Rings counting their kills. You're just murderers. You are not in a fiction book. What are we doing? So they're making like, what? Like for gated neighborhoods, like a pain?

It's mostly small businesses, I think. I think it's mostly like- But it's like a private murder police force. Yeah, yeah. Accountable to no one and allowed by the state to shoot kids in the back. Well, they are accountable to the police, but the way that the police monitor them

is by going, good job. Killing others. Yeah, I think this is probably gonna go good. Yeah, it's gonna be great. But you know what else is gonna be great, Molly? Oh, is it products and services? I hope it's not an ad for Falcon Security. That would be really awkward.

A simply safe ad. Yeah, simply safe. Simply safe. Now we've got a guy with a gun. I'm Jon Walczak, host of the new podcast, Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. In 2001, police say I killed my family, first mom, then the kids, and rigged my house to

explode in a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the valley before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is getting the sniper me out of some tree.

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A family annihilation. Today. And a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding.

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This is fire in my partner life. This court is on fire. In the early morning hours of September 6th, 2016, St. Louis rapper and iconic Ferguson activist Darren Seals was found shot dead. Well, I'm a podcast journalist. And I'm a former state senator, Maria Chappelle-Nadal. I was in the movement with Darren, and I've spent two years with co-host Ray Novashelsky, investigating his death. Even if I did want to tell you something, that's a dangerous game to play.

FBI did this to myself. They've been following him for months. That's enough proof right there. All episodes available now. Listen to After the Uprising Season Two, The Murder of Darren Seals on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back.

Anyway, it is unclear to me when Lewis made his first kill, most official reporting suggests all or nearly all of his killings occurred in a three yearyear spree near the end of the 80s. Some of what I've read leads me to question that. I think he definitely started shooting people earlier, but I'm sure there's a period of ramping up to the speed of murder that he's going to be at during that three-year period. What we know is that Section 49 provided Klote and Van Schuur with all the legal cover for murder they needed. So long as they argued that they had tried to get a suspect to stop and surrender and

that suspect had run, they had what amounted to legal impunity. The precise nature of the law meant that shooting someone in the back was not just legal. You could argue it was your duty, like legally speaking. Beverly was by all, a huge racist. She's going to become an exceedingly wealthy person after this and a real prominent bigot, but she does not seem to have been a fan of murder. And her husband's behavior either disgusted her or at least frightened her. I should probably also emphasize that she knew he was cheating more or less constantly

on her, all of which factored into her leaving him in 1983. Right? So they- But not the murder thing. It may have, I mean, she says that like- I guess a combination. She says that him taking this job was like the final straw, right?

And maybe it was. Like I can accept one or the other, but both? Yeah. Cheating or murders, bye. I mean, you cheated on by a serial killer? Absolutely not. Now, the inciting incident seems to have been when Sabrina, who is not quite four at this point,

caught Louis making out with her preschool teacher and told Bev how he is such a piece of shit. This led to horrific fights, and eventually Sabrina would claim her dad threatened to murder her mom. Bev rightfully took Sabrina and her brothers away to Queensland. mom. Bev rightfully took Sabrina and her brothers away to Queensland.

As soon as they were gone in the divorce final, Louis married Sabrina's teacher. She and her mother had to start a new life with her haunted by the knowledge that she had broken up her parents' marriage, even though obviously that's not your fault. You didn't do anything wrong. That was coming.

But yeah, you know, she's four. Louis continued to run through wives at a steady rate after this. He divorced the teacher two years later after having two daughters with her. Oh, that wasn't a love match? No, not a love match. And then in 1990, he proposes to the daughter

of a wealthy local businessman. This may have been an attempt by Lewis, who's still working as a security guard at that point and regularly shooting suspects to gain a more reputable place for himself and society as he aged. If so, it didn't work out, largely because he seems to have been a bad husband.

One local reporter described his four wives as either vulnerable, overweight, or meek. Okay, a little rude. The papers at the time always like to tell you when his wives are fat, which I think is gross. The armchair psychiatry done by journalists after his murders became public described this as him seeking to fill his life with mentally weaker people.

I don't know if I buy that, because again, Bev is an exceptionally competent and powerful business woman. So I don't know if, it is a case of him filling his life with mentally weaker people, right? Some of them were meek and some were just fat. Maybe she was strong and fat.

Bev gets fat, which is part of why I think these journalists are like, she's mentally weaker than him. But she's like a multimillionaire entrepreneur. I don't understand why you think she's mentally weak. It's like we're really drawing a lot of conclusions about the wives here. Yeah, I might say the single mother

who is able to leave her husband to start a new life and become a millionaire on her own is probably mentally stronger than the man who just shoots people in the back for a living. But- I mean, he does it for the love of the game. He does it for the, he does do it for the love of the game. You know, find a thing you love and you'll never work a day in your life.

Bev is kind of thriving after the breakup. Lewis continues to do the only thing he'd ever been good at, violence. By the late 1980s, Falcon Security had a contract to protect 70% of all white owned businesses in East London. Local business owners started to see Lewis as their version of the Punisher,

a killing machine you sent in to trim the grass, periodically murdering young men who had the temerity to commit property crime and thus keeping criminality under wraps. Issa Jacobson, a South African journalist, claims, he was a kind of vigilante killer. He was a dirty, hairy character. These were intruders who were, in a lot of cases, pretty desperate, digging through bins, maybe stealing some food petty criminals. Do these people not realize this is real life? This is not a movie. Is it a TV show? What are you doing? What are you doing? Like you're concerned about crime. Talking about

Yeah, you're not reducing the amount of violence in the community by killing people in the parking lot. by killing people in the parking lot. I think the white people in town see it as like, yeah, what you're doing is making them keep their heads down, right? You want to kill the ones who commit crimes, you know, because that'll scare the others and it'll just generally, it'll keep the system in place. It'll let them know their place, right? Like that's why they like what he's doing, right? I guess it's just, I don't know. I mean, it's like what we're seeing right now

with Israel, right? It's like the people who mature psychologically in this kind of environment just have a different understanding of violence than we do, I guess. Yeah, they see him as part of the wall. Because there's like a dead guy in the parking lot. Yeah. Like you're seeing this.

Yeah, he is part of the wall that they see their life as depending on. Now, it's an unfortunate reality with cases like this that some chunk of the populace will always say, well, you just can't let people steal. And so this is where I provide you with more detail on the kind of murders that Lewis committed, sometimes more than one a week.

Here's an excerpt from a beat. Jesus Christ! Calm down, weirdo! Yeah, no, he shoots people. He shoots people so many times. So is there a separate thriving industry of like whoever comes and picks up the bodies? I mean, there's a lot of work for the hospitals. There's a lot of work for the morgues.

There's a lot of, actually a lot of these guys go into unmarked graves. He just thinks he's like the season one and two, the arrow on CW. What is happening here? I can't comment on that. Is he an amazing shot and like everyone he shoots dies or is he shooting like 10 guys a week?

He's shooting like 10 guys a week. He's shooting at the height of his shooting people. He's shooting about one person a week and he's killing about one person a month. Bruh, stop. That's weird. That's just being a murderer. I don't think it's weird.

That's yeah, that's just being a murderer. You're just being a murderer. Yeah. I'm gonna read you for an example of how the kind of murders he's committing. Here's an excerpt from a BBC report. In a particularly brutal case on 11th July, 1988, Van Schoor shot a 14 year old boy

who had broken into a restaurant searching for petty change. The boy, who we have not named to protect his privacy, told the police he hid in the toilet when he saw Van Schoor with his gun. He said the security guard called him out, told him to stand next to the wall, and then shot him repeatedly. He told me to stand up but I couldn't, said the boy. While I was lying there he kicked me in the mouth. He picked me up and propped me up against a table and then he shot me again.

So this is not security guard comes across. It's not supposed to be, right? Right, so even under this like bizarre framework where it's cool to shoot this in the back while he runs away, like you can't do this. No, because he's not running away. Like this is supposed to be illegal, but here's the thing, Louis says he runs away like, you can't do this. No, because he's not running away. Like this is supposed to be illegal, but here's the thing, Louis says he ran away.

The black boy he shot says he did all this horrible shit to me, guess who the cops believe? Yeah, well they don't have like, no, like ballistics or anything. They're not doing any of that. They're not doing science. They're not doing that on these cases. South African apartheid cops.

The bullet hole is in the floor though. They don't got Dexter walking around in there doing blood spatter analysis. How did the hole get in the floor? They don't give a shit. And in fact, this boy, as he is like in the fucking hospital recovering from being shot within an inch of his fucking life,

gets charged with breaking and entering. And basically all of the survivors get charged and like sentenced for breaking and entering after Lewis nearly murders them. So that's cool. Now the good news is that in this case, the child that Lewis shot survived, but Lewis is going to kill other children.

And in part two, we'll talk about that and we'll talk about his daughter Sabrina. It's going to be great, Molly. It's going to be a lovely time. But first off, most importantly, how are you doing? Oh, you know, I'm not as good as about an hour ago, but it's still pretty good. Yeah, great. Excellent. Well, Molly, do you have anything you wanna plug

before we wrap here? Plug the idea of not using dogs as weapons. No, but I also have a new podcast. It feels so gross to say. Yeah, welcome to the club. Well, I think you should not use dogs as weapons, but you might use a weapon as a dog, you know? Try that out. You know, pick up, pick up like that.

Instead of any of that, you should open your podcast app of choice and subscribe to Weird Little Guys, my new weekly show. Yeah. Subscribe to Weird Little Guys, then put a, put a dog leash around a Thompson sub machine gun and just drag it into the park, you know, and give everyone a good time. And because people have been asking the the Apple ad free version of our our network coolers and media is available now and the Android version is getting so unbelievably close.

So close. So close friends. So close. Woo. Yep. Well, everyone, this has been Behind the Bastards, a podcast about a piece of shit. And this this this week, we got a real, real piece of shit for you. So be back.

Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy the shit. Suck up this shit, you know, slip up this shit, everyone. There will be more on Thursday. Bye. Bye. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, CoolZoneMedia.com. Or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, it's Andrea Gutting, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly every Thursday. Each week you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jon Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world.

We cloned his voice using AI. One, two, three. In 2001. Police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode. Before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me.

I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm gonna call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. In the early morning hours of September 6, 2016, St. Louis rapper and activist Darren Seals was found murdered. That's what they gonna learn. Own for death, own for nothing. Every day, Darren would tell her, all right, Ma, be prepared. Darren Seals was found murdered. That's what they gonna learn. Own for death, own for nothing. Every day, Dermot tell her, alright ma, be prepared,

they are going to try to kill me. All episodes available now. Listen to After the Uprising, The Murder of Darren Seals on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.