Believe in Magic - Episode 7: Jean

Episode Date: May 29, 2023

Megan’s mother disappears, Jamie tries to track her down. Evidence published reveals a shocking conclusion. Finally, Jamie can give everyone involved some answers.

Hey Ruth. Hey Jamie. How are you doing? Guess where I am. How could I possibly get? So we're actually, we're actually just coming to the little village. Ruth the producer is driving through Brittany in northwest France to a village where Jean used to live. She's with a French-speaking journalist, Sarah. I'm back in London. I don't know why I feel so nervous about going to a place where Jean was once. It's a bit ridiculous isn't it? Yeah totally. It's just seven minutes down the road. So I'm driving there now. So what's your what's your what's your what's your what's you're going to do

this afternoon now? Plan A right now is just drive there and like have a look at her house Now! Plan A right now is just drive there and like have a look at her house and I guess see if anyone's living there and then I guess you've got to get up the courage to go and knock on the door. We're just off knocking on doors isn't it? Yeah. You might find it within half an hour, you've got it already and that's it. Yeah. Come back home again. That would be nice. I'm Jamie Bartlett. This is Believe in Magic, episode 7. Jean. Meghan might have been the public face of Believe in Magic, but her mother Jean was with her

every step of the way. In 2013, Jean gave an interview on local radio. This is the only recording we have of her. Believin Magic was started on my daughter Meg, and one who was just 16, actually. She's been very poorly herself for about four years then and was in an out of many hospitals in London, mostly great home and street. And Meg wanted to do something to make a difference to their lives. So she set up a leaves-imagina which became a registered charity.

We need to talk to Jean to see what she might say about the charity, her account of Meg's brain tumour and the last few years of Megyn's life. We had been told she was living in France. We'd sent her a letter asking if she'd agree to speak. We got no answer. Her social media accounts are dormant. Our emails don't deliver. It's sent. Okay. Mail address not found. I just came back already. Yeah. Her phone numbers don't work. You've dialed an incorrect number.

No. She doesn't want to be found, does she? We wanted to go to France to see her in person, but just as we're planning our trip, we hear she's left, and we have no idea where she's gone So we decide to ring around starting with the sleuths Hello, do you want to speak King hi Joe? It's Jamie here with Ruth. How you doing? I'm good. I don't see how you're not too bad We've been trying now for some months to to find gene

Yes We've been trying now for some months to find Jean. Yeah. Just wanted to know whether you'd heard anything at all about where she might be right now. At France, that's the last I heard. And there was talk of a living near a family member. No. It was all here, say, I can't even remember where I've heard that. Sorry. Yeah, well thanks for that. Thanks for taking the call like a short notice like that. Next up, Lucy Petagini,

Jean's old friend from Believe in Magic. Hi Lucy, how you doing? I'm good, thank you very good. Yeah, good. Ruth and I are trying to track down Jean. She's gone off radar a long, long time. I've loved I heard she's gone to France. That was by a couple of years ago. Right.

She's actually gone off, completely off-grid. And she... I know, I know. She tried to contact her through like messenger. I have found out that I haven't tried calling her number but I think she changed her number a long time ago. I only imagine she'd just disappear, especially without Meg. No one seems to know where Jean is.

Her daughters Rachel and Kate haven't heard from her in years. By now, Ruth and I are getting closer to working out what really happened to Meg and believe in magic. We need to put our allegations to Jean so she has the chance to respond. We know she's not in France anymore, but France might be our best chance at finding her. So Ruth travels to the village where she lived to see if anyone has a forwarding Okay so we are just pulling up in front of Jean's old house all the windows are shut and all the curtains are shut. Right let's see what we can do. It's like a little stone house, part of a terrace on a main road through a village. I'm standing around the back of Jean's house.

There's a big stack of wood. I wonder whether the house is central heating or whether it is wood, isn't it? Through believe in magic, Megan Jean raised hundreds of thousands of pounds. The charity commission inquiry found large cash with drawers and transfers to a trustee's personal bank account. Some people we spoke to were convinced Jean would be living a life of luxury,

but that's not what Ruth found. We told that she bought the house for 6,000 euros. So, not a huge amount. It's definitely not a wealthy village. They're quite a houses. One looks kind of abandoned. Front door, the glass has been smashed. I think it's where you come when you don't have a lot of money anymore. So I think if she did have

riches from believe in magic, they'd very much gone by this point. There was nobody at Jean's house, so Ruth and Sarah decided to try the neighbours. Okay. Okay. I don't know, it looks pretty shut to me. Yeah, try the neighbours. Yeah, I think. The one on the edge definitely looks like a man.

Hello, I'm looking for Jean. There's a lady who's calling Jean. Who's calling Jean. One neighbor remembered Jean and pointed them to a house down the street. Jean was good friends with the couple who lived there. Okay, third white house. That one.

Okay. That's it. Hi. Hi. Did you know the lady lived across the road? Jean was a very good friend of ours. She moved out here after a daughter passed. Yep. And she lived here for just over a year, year and a half. And then

she sold up there and moved back to Newgate. We were talking to her and saw her every day. We became really, really close to her. And then yeah, I haven't heard from Mrs. July. She left in July? Which, she left in July. Is she sold the house? Katarina is a glamorous Australian in her early 50s who now lives in France with her husband and daughter. She invited Ruth and Sarah into her house.

It's larger than jeans with thick stone walls. She told them about the first time she met Jean. I was sitting on the front step in the sun with my dog. And she stopped in her car and with her little dog in the passenger seat, which was a dog that she'd bought for Meg as a child. And she said, hello, how are you? I'm Jean. And I'm like, hi, Jean. I'm Katarina. And she said, oh, lovely to meet you.

If you ever need anything or you want to have a cup of coffee, come on over and knock on my door. And that's what it started off as. Just bright bubbly Jean passing in a car, saying hello. off as just bright bubbly gene passing in a car saying hello. For over a year, Katarina saw Jean almost every day. They became very close. Always a smile on her face, always asking how you are, are you okay? Do you need anything?

Is there anything I can do for you if you asked how she was? She would always brush herself off as fine and fine and fine. She never had anything bad to say about anybody, not one word. Gradually, Jean opened up to Katarina about her past. She would sit until later at night at Katarina's table, telling her what had happened before she came to France. She mentioned only briefly about the charity. Didn't really talk about that much.

Just that gene and Meg had started a charity and that did her best to help people who were ill. She said that she had been in the UK, a daughter had been very ill for many, many years, got only worse, done all kinds of treatments in the UK and abroad, and that Meg just wasn't getting any better, and no one could say definition what was wrong with her, and they were all

trying different drugs and different doctors and all kinds of different procedures, and nothing was helping her. Near the last couple of years Meg had had to sleep in a armchair upright, and Jean had explained to us that she was so ill that she had to have 28 injections in 24 hours. So far, it's the same account Jean has been telling people for years. But Katarina is one of the only people who knows the next part of Jean's story. Meg passing and how devastating it was to her and how it broke down everything in her life. You can tell she had tragedy because she looks very, very not old but like worn out and just,

you know, a person who's had a tragic, tragic life. She, for her 60-odd years, you would have thought that she was 80. Jean had explained to us that once Megan had died, that they had done an inquest to find out what the cause of death was, and that was just really, really terrible. She had to talk about that. According to Jean, that she didn't say whether or not they found the barren tumor or anything like that. According to Jean, they did find something,

but it could not determine exactly that was the cause of death. So I think there was a lot of information. It's hard to remember all the bits and pieces were both crying at the table and she's talking about it. Sorry, yeah, it was very hard. Sorry. I'm so sorry. Yeah, she's just a gene was just a lovely person.

And you can see the heart breaking. The pain in her face and in her, you know, with no hair and really, really worn out, it just was really hard to see. With Katarina's support, Jean Gradually became stronger. She started giving away Meghan's clothes and belongings. Her hair, which had fallen fallen out re-gru. So, Caterine never expected what happened next. We were in constant contact with her and then suddenly just everything stopped.

I didn't get any more communication since about June. I would say to my husband, I would say it to another friend of mine, how strange it was, not her personality. I hope that nothing had happened to her. But yes. Did she say anything about where she'd gone? She had mentioned that she would love to go to spend half the year in Spain when it's cold and half the year in the UK.

But yeah, she did mention that she didn't have much money so that she would have to kind of be a bit of a nomad. Hey, Ruth. She didn't have much money so that she would have to kind of be a bit of a nomad. Hey Ruth, how you doing? This is her, she's on the South Coast. On the South Coast. Here's a beach. The last message Jean sent to Katharina was a picture with a caption,

the beach where I live. It was somewhere on the South Coast of England. Near the beach on the South Coast coast that's a pretty big area. I've got a photo of the beach. Oh, how do you? Oh, how do you? I don't know. Well then, I can use that. We'll probably be able to find it from that. Oh, that's brilliant. The image Jean had sent to Katharina showed a pebbly beach with wooden groins, stretching out into the sea to protect the coastline.

In the next few days, I tried to match it up with pictures of South Coast beaches online. I even call up someone who'd written a book about the British seaside, but he couldn't identify it. But we did have other clues as well. Katarina said Jean had talked of going back to where she'd once lived with Meghan. Ruth looks up her old addresses, there are several near a popular but unglamorous holiday town on the south coast of England, one in a caravan park. We even hear she's been spotted in that area in the past couple of weeks.

Morning, morning. All in all, enough to jump in a car one rainy Thursday and head to the south coast. How are you doing? I'm fine. Nice day for the beach. Lovely weather for you. Oh yeah, it's miserable isn't it? It's probably.

That's just my mood. So first of all, job today really is to get down there. We've got all the stuff you found out in France. Let's help us narrow it down to here. And the first job is let's just see if we can find out where she is. Like, is she actually there? As we drive south, Ruth and I reflect on our feelings about Jean.

Is it possible to feel sorry for her, even knowing what we know? Like everything else in this story, it's not simple. I keep on swinging from feeling quite sympathetic towards Jean to feeling, no, this is horrific, what's happened, and the things that she could have done to Megan and lying to all those people as well with dying children. I think both of us have this feeling, which is being able to simultaneously think it's

terrible or like unexplainably bad what you've done. We need to expose what you've done, it's awful. And I also feel very sorry for you, you've lost your daughter, you probably never meant that to happen. And we're grappling these two conflicting feelings about her at the same time. So you swing from one to the other but you basically feel both, that you talk about it and then you feel bad and then you think of something and then feel angry and then you think about something else and feel bad again. We arrive just as the rain clears and

We arrive just as the rain clears and walk out onto a vast pebbled beach to see if it matches the picture gene scent. We pull out the photograph. There's a white building in the background. The problem is that the south coast of England has miles and miles of similar looking beaches dotted with similar looking low-rise buildings. Which looks like we might be a little bit further around that way. You think we should drive there, it's quite far. Hang on, we'll just come down to another beach. I'm going to just go through the pier.

Spacing Baders. I'm going to just go through the pier. Spacing Daeders. I think the next one. Beach. Would that be the white building? After beach. Is that something to look like that thing over there? After beach.

It's not quite right, is it? No. No. Come on. What are you saying from here? That's quite right. It doesn't curve. Come on. What are you saying from here? That's quite right, it doesn't curve. It's getting dark and we're starting to feel a little despondent.

But then the next morning we have a breakthrough. Yeah, there's loads of surface out and the sun is absolutely like right in my face. I can't see that. You see the white building there? Look, look, that isn't it. That is a hundred percent. That's it. It's just growing out there with a little triangle on the top. It's definitely here. This is the beach. Oh god, I'm so glad we found it. So now we've got a we've got to find a car. We know her car. We know her registration. If Jean really lives near this beach, her car could be nearby. So we start driving up and down every street. What was the number plate again? I just saw a Mercedes when I thought it was it.

That's not a car. That's not a car is it. Just keep your eyes out for that number plate. We visit all her older dresses just in case. Yeah, that's a bloke living there. Very nice. No, it's not green. No, it's not green.

No, it's not green, is it? It's such an unusual place to live. This is a holiday destination and this is a holiday home on the beach. But then that's her, isn't it? Life is just a... It's just a movie. Life is just a story. It sort of makes some sense. But if she's got no money, I don't think she's living around here. We decide to try the local shops. We've been into every cafe, every shop, a state agent, lettings, dog grooming place, two hairdressers,

and what did we get? I mean, actually the woman in the lettings agency, she was really quite sure she'd seen her. Everyone else was pretty much, no, don't recognize her. Maybe she was here for a month or two, like not very long, just in the summer months. So now it's November, maybe she's left again. So I got a feeling that maybe she's moved on.

We head back to London. So how do you feel about today then Ruth? I feel a bit flat and I feel a bit silly for having thought that we would find her. How important was it to get her side of the story? I mean, that's the other thing, like were we expecting her to be honest with us anyway? Not really.

We had wanted to ask Jean why she lied, why she had sought the attention of so many families with sick children, why she'd exaggerated Meghan's health issues. All for a few months in a luxury Disney resort, a stint on a cruise liner, and a connection with one direction. Was it all worth it in the end? Somehow, I'd always imagined we'd knock on Jean's door one day, not finding her was disappointing.

But I thought back to our interview with Munchhauson Specialist Mark Feldman. The denial tends to be so massive in these cases that I often find it pointless to sit down with accused perpetrators because I know what the truth is. I've read the records. I know what happened. I've spoken with family, friends, attorneys, the court, and they just come in and lie to me. They have an explanation for every inconsistency or they just refuse to answer their lawyers' refuse to let them answer in the U.S. So I haven't found the magic key that will unlock their denial.

Maybe it wasn't Gene we needed to find. For a long time, we thought we were the only ones looking into the case of Megan Gene. But at the end of the last episode, we were told Kingston Council had ordered something called a safe guarding adults review. These are only carried out when an adult has either died from or experienced possible abuse or neglect, and there has been some sort of failure by the authorities to protect them. All the agencies involved, like doctors, police and adult social workers, contribute. When the reports are published, the victims are given fake names to protect their identity. This safeguarding adults' review would be the only

public report into what happened to Meg, written by people with access to information we can't ever have. The closest thing to an official account of Megan's story. It was originally meant to be published in April 2022 when we were in the middle of our investigation. It wasn't. In the summer I kept in touch with the press office, a mother in June, the middle of July, e-mails, the August, there's now expected to be published in September.

We get another e-mail in late September, saying it's delayed further. And then suddenly, one day in early November November I get a voice message from Ruth. Hi Jamie I'm out and about and I just checked the Kingston website as I do from time to time and the report is out. Ruth and I jump on a call to read it together. Finally, this is it. It may just be a report, but for us it could contain the answer we've been looking for. What really happened to Megan Barry? I've never felt so nervous clicking on a link. So, well, I'm going to click on it here we go. Her post-mortem examination revealed no brain tumour. The coroner stated there was no evidence that she had any physical illness. That much we know already from the coroner's report, but there's more.

Despite there being no formal diagnosis of FII in this case, the presentation and coroner's conclusion lead all involved to think it was likely to have been FII. Right? Wow. Everyone here who's taken part in this, what we understand, very, very detailed, rigorous long investigation, have said all of them think it was likely to have been fabricated or induced illness. That's munchowsons by proxy. It's strange to read that, isn't it? Because we sort of thought that ourselves, but I don't know, whether we'd know what it ever really it in writing or no one had ever formally, I felt like we have been reaching that conclusion ourselves without, it kind of based on the things we've

seen, but not having all the material available to us. So there was always a bit of doubt or a bit of uncertainty in my mind about it, but I mean the fact that now everyone who's looked at this now thinks it was likely to have been FYI, I don't really know what to think to be honest. I mean it's sort of confirmed what we thought, but it makes it a little sadder. You know, that's really what happened. Yeah. It's very sad to see it and then it sort of brings back what Megan was going through, what she was being put through.

Supported by her mother, she'd sought to engage with many private and NHS services to manage a range of reported health conditions that included having a brain tumor. And, you know, we know this report has been done by the adult, the adult board, the safeguarding adult board, but we know that this behavior started when she was a child and had that happen. This might have been seen as a case of child abuse because her mother would have been required to be there, to sign off on every procedure like the she had the shunt, the brain shunt before she was 18, she had lumber punctures before she was 18. This is here, the coroner stated there was no evidence that she had knee physical illness,

does that mean she didn't even have, she didn't even have intracranial hypertension? While making this series, Ruth and I both noticed something strange. Many people's lives were so touched by Meg and Jean, both positively and negatively, that it was hard for them to make sense of what had happened. The whole affair was still shrouded in rumour and allegation, clouded by bitterness, and the heavy emotional weight of a story about children with life-threatening illness. It felt like people were looking to root in me to figure it out for them, just so they could know and deal with it in their own way. This was most obviously true for Jean's two daughters, Meaghan's older sisters.

After we found the Kingston review, Ruth and I felt for the first time like we actually had an answer. So we decided to talk with the sisters one last time to tell them about it ourselves. We're picking us up. That's all right. Yeah. It's a nightmare trying to get taxis around here.

We get to Kate's house. She's in the process of moving, so we're told to watch for wet paint and, sorry about the mess. As we set up, I asked Rachel why she decided to talk with us in the first place. I think this is the first time anybody's put everything together and looked at this holistically, instead of just looking at one element each time. Something is not right with this. This is our possible one chance that we can get answers for every little tiny, confusing angle of this story.

As well as that, I think Rachel also wants answers for herself. For years she's wondered if she, too, was a victim of something similar, where the gene had been responsible for her having kidney failure. We didn't find gene. were the gene had been responsible for her having kidney failure. We didn't find gene. Oh, did you know? No, but we did find something else. And one of the reasons we came here is because I wanted to show you it before anyone else.

So you get to see it and a broader copy down. We give the Kingston safeguarding adults' review to Kate and Rachel, explaining that they are rare investigations which take place when someone dies from abuse or neglect and the authorities could have done more to protect them. This was published last week to take a look. There's a silence while they take in what this is. Then Rachel reads the line that stuck with me and Ruth. Despite there being no formal diagnosis of FII in this case,

the presentation and coroner's conclusion laid all involved to think it was likely to have been FII. Basically the modern word for Munchowsons by Proxy. Was it make you think when you read that? It's good that this has been recognised. Yeah. It's kind of everything all in one right there and it's kind of like a conclusion to this really sad story.

Even though you knew, even though you were certain, just to see that it's other professionals see it and recognise it and it has a name. No, it's good. It's a good thing to have and to be able to see and read and it's all there in black and white and yeah it's clicking things in my head. I'm realizing now for me it's pretty much confirmation that the same was done to me and I'm just trying to process that at the moment. For Kate the report is also validation of some sort. We felt like it was forgotten. Like, there was, you know, that was it.

For this, basically, just is a confirmation of everything we've been saying and what we've said all along and that, actually, yet we were correct. I've always known, but it's just nice to actually go, yeah, we work correct. I've always known, but it's just nice to actually go, yeah, there it is. Does it change having seen it in black and white? Does it change your view on sort of Megan's role in this relative to jeans? She was a victim, she was so young when this happened and she was groomed for this and I absolutely think she was a victim.

The report doesn't just include a summary of Meghan's case. It also documents how the health and social care system failed to prevent it from happening. If you look back on this document, this sort of shocked me. On what page? Well, page two, if you just have a look at page two, finding one, FII guidance for adult safeguarding, there is a total lack of safeguarding guidance and training related to, fabricated and induced illness in young adults. For the professionals with statutory adult safeguarding responsibilities. But if you look at it, six findings,

and they're all just about failure, failure how a system wasn't working, that there just wasn't a, it didn't seem to be anything in place for this kind of case where you have an adult, an a pair, and a child who's now an adult for whom it started when they're very young. Missing that crossover.

Yeah, missing that crossover from child to adult and very hard for the system to recognise the risk to making as an adult because she was an adult, as really on her, whereas that doesn't capture the whole story when it started when you're a child. Yeah, especially when you've been kind of, as we've said, used a word groomed. Yeah. You know, that's your, you're basically a vulnerable adult who is kind of controlled, really. Yeah.

Will this change anything in the future? Will it be taken seriously? Maybe health professionals will know how to spot this better. It might actually lead to something and that would be one small silver lining to this whole story. Fabricated or induced illness is defined as a rare form of child abuse, but it doesn't distinguish between those parents who are deliberately deceiving doctors

and those who have a genuinely mistaken belief that their child is ill. It's often so hard to prove that a parent was deliberately harming their child that most cases are never prosecuted. This report does not say that FII caused Meghan's death, but it does highlight how Meghan's case could have been missed. The system saw Meghan as an adult capable of making her own decisions when in truth she was, in many ways, still a child. The system saw Meghan as a patient reporting symptoms in the privacy of a doctor's surgery, but she was also an internet celebrity, with identity and meaning attached to having

a brain tumor. We've spoken to a Munchhausen expert who says this report is extremely significant. It could even be used to help doctors spot what some young adults like Megan might be going through and prevent it happening again. Five days after Megan died, the sisters received an email from their mother. It was written as a letter from Jean to Meg. Jean says that Meghan meant everything to her and she would never harm her. She blames Joe and the sleuths for Meghan's death, the very people who tried to save her.

Its tragic Jean says that Meghan had to die for everyone to realise she'd been telling the truth all along. The sisters both read the email and didn't reply. That was the last contact they ever had with Jean. A couple of years after Meghan died, just after the charity commission shut down believe in magic, an article appeared in the Times newspaper. Girl faked brain tumour to doop stars out of cash and live high life, the headline read. The focus of the article was squarely on Meg.

Ms. Barry appealed for funds to repeatedly travel to America for medical treatment. But beneath the article was one cryptic comment. The full truth is so much darker, but the blame for this should not be placed on Meg. Her death was a tragedy in, in my opinion, totally avoidable. She was an amazing young lady and I will never forget her. I just wanted to do something to sort of give them the magical experiences back. It was from Meghan's friend Natalie Garrett. It was that comment that set us off on this whole investigation.

And at the time, even Natalie didn't know how dark the truth really was. After the articles published, Jean took to Facebook. Once again, she denied everything. Then she deleted her account. As we finish this podcast, Ruth and I often talk to each other about whether Jean will listen to it and what she'd think if she did. We wonder if she's seen the Kingston review. I still want to know what Jean would say in response to everything we've reported. If you're listening Um, you're not going to bleed us. I'm not bad.

I'm not bad. I'm not bad. I'm not bad. I'm not bad. I'm not bad. I'm not bad, you're pretty good. You're not going to believe this. I got an email from Jean. Oh my god.

We thought we'd finished this series. For a year we tried and failed to contact Jean. And then, just as we were ready to release the podcast, Jean finally wrote the podcast, Jean finally replies. She says she was advised not to contact us, but now feels she has no choice. She says in her email that she's been the target of jealousy, bitterness and hatred from one of Meghan's step-sisters, I think she means one of her half-sisters, and she accuses us of harassing people close to her. She asks

us to pause publication. Attached to her email, a four images from a brain scan. Jean says they're from the final MRI taken before Meghan's death. Their proof, she says, that Meghan had a pituitary adenoma, a type of brain tumour. I mean, I'm going to have to sit down and look at this. It's hard not to question yourself when you get an email like this. Ruth and I take a deep breath and carefully look at the MRI evidence Jean has sent.

It's really blurry, though. You can't quite make all the words out. It's a photograph of a crumpled piece of paper with four brain scan images in the middle. And the writing around it is just so difficult to make out because it's a really tiny picture. If we squint, we can just about read some words. Above the four scan images is a sentence that has been highlighted, sort of a box has been drawn around it. I think it says, in conclusion, the imaging appearances and or are suggestive of a right pituitary micro adenoma. A pituitary micro adenoma is a very small type of non-cancerous brain tumour, which is typically not life-threatening, although it can be dangerous.

In very rare cases, this type of tum tumor can become cancerous, and it would then be referred to as a pituitary carcinoma. We can't make out every word, but as far as we can tell, there's no mention of carcinoma anywhere in this document. We don't know who wrote those words on the images Jean sent us. There's no heading on the letter, no doctor names or hospitals. It doesn't look like a doctor's letter to me. And there's nothing which shows it's a scan of Megan's brain. But it's scary seeing this. Have we missed something?

Ruth and I think back to what else we've seen. At the inquest, none of her doctors mentioned a brain tumour, instead saying they had concerns about her medical claims. The forensic pathologist who carried out the post-mortem didn't see any evidence of a tumour. The brain itself, apart from the shunt, appeared morphologically normal. It had a normal weight, and there were no signs of either cerebral edema or raised intra-cranial pressure. And the sisters saw a letter from an American doctor, which said Meghan did not have evidence for a pituitary gland abnormality.

Jean doesn't reply to any of our other allegations. She doesn't have anything to say about what was found at the coroner's inquest, or about the Disney stay. She doesn't mention the fact that the Kingston review concluded, Megan was likely the victim of fabricated or induced illness, although she does say, quote, suggesting I might have harmed Megan in any way at all is absolutely sickening. Jean warns us about getting sucked into social media lies and signs off by saying, may God forgive you for the lies you tell.

There will probably always be some uncertainty in this story. That's part of dealing with illness and disease. Things are rarely 100% certain. You weigh things up and you make a judgment. Our judgment was to publish this. We didn't tell the story of believe in magic to cause distress to anyone, although we know it will. We did it because people should know what happened.

And because maybe in another case, someone might spot what's going on sooner It's too late for Megan. Maybe it's not too late for someone else Believing Magic is a BBC Studios podcast. It was written and presented by me, Jamie Bartlett. It was developed, series produced and written by Ruth Mayer. The producer was Lucy Greenwell. The executive producer was Inist Bowen. Original music by Jeremy Wormsley. The mix engineer and sound designers were Peregrine Andrews and Arley Adlington. The sound engineers were Aaron Cazola and Steve Townsend. The actors were Anna Darvie, Chloe Lewis, Angus Ruffley and Terry Burns, production manager Elena Boatting, production coordinator Juliet Harvey, production executive Laura Jordan

Rowell, the creative director is Georgia Mosley and additional development was by Anna Yassandr's. is Georgia Mosley and additional development was by Anja Saunders. Editorial policy advisor was Matthew Eltringham and legal advice came from David Atfield Andrew Downey and Victoria Ingham. The archive in this series is from free mantle Simcoe Ltd, Mentor Media, Brooklyn's radio and BBC archive. Thanks as well to Beena Katani, Cassian Harrison, Priscilla Parish, Tom McDonald, Satie Eshmann Harajah, Christian Damedo, Kate Hall, and Naomi Benson.

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