Betrayal - EP 4 - Matt and Laura, Part 1

Episode Date: August 8, 2024

Matt and Laura’s dream of having a second child turned into a twisted, shocking, and unexpected deceit.    If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at [e-mail]. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast, Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. One, two, three. In 2001, Police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode. before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere.

Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice?

Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. In the early morning hours of September 6th, 2016, St. Louis rapper and activist Darren Seals was found murdered. That's what they gonna learn. On for death, on for nothing.

Every day Darren would tell her, alright ma, be prepared, they are going to try to kill me. All episodes available now. Listen to After the Uprising, The Murder of Darren Seals on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2009, Maitrice Richardson was released from the Malibu Lost Hills Sheriff's Station, and she never made it home.

Nearly a year later, Maitrice's remains were found in a canyon six miles from the station. Her death is Malibu's greatest unsolved mystery. I'm Dana Goodyear in Lost Hills, Dark Canyon. What happened to my Trice Richardson? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. She was screaming saying, there's blood all over the car.

Oh my God, oh my God, the baby's coming. I was like trying to talk her through it. Just breathe, just take deep breaths. Can God, the baby's coming. I was like trying to talk her through it. Just breathe, just take deep breaths. Can you feel the baby's head? I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything. Here at Betrayal, we've received hundreds of emails, messages from listeners telling

us their own shocking stories of deception. And we knew we had to find a way to share them. So every Thursday, we'll be bringing you new stories of resilience in the face of devastating betrayal. Some stories will be contained to one episode and others will be released in two parts. Besides hearing from listeners, our team has been researching and reading about

some of the most unbelievable deceptions and betrayals from across the world. Not just romantic betrayals, but familial and financial ones. And in this story, it's somewhere in between. In the process of adopting a baby, Matt and Laura Trait were pulled into a twilight zone of deception and fraud. Something switched in us and we immediately went into attack mode. Like, we can't let someone get away with this. And so we started immediately making phone calls to the sheriff's department, to, I mean, anybody that would listen.

And I remember the sheriff saying, well, it's not a crime to hurt someone's feelings. This is Laura Trait and her husband, Matt. Matt and Laura met in 2005, when they were both in graduate school to become teachers. He was standing in line with his classmate when he first met Laura. She inserted herself into our conversation with my classmate and was like, Oh, are you in the teaching program? I'm in the teaching program too. We talked for a little bit and went back to class.

My other friend I was with was like, Oh, she's really into you. I said, Oh no, she's not like, she's way out of. I said, oh no, she's not. Like, she's way out of my league. There's no way she was into me. Matt's friend was right. I know it sounds so cliche, but when I saw Matt around campus, I just kind of knew.

He had just the kind of smile and kind eyes. So I basically worked up the courage that night to say hello. Laura invited him to her birthday dinner. He showed up with flowers. That was kind of our first date. Yeah, it worked out for me. We were pretty much stuck at the hip, like, right from the start.

It just kind of clicked. They dated for two years, and over that time, their initial attraction grew into a deep connection. This is what Matt says he loves about Laura. What drew me to Laura when I first met her were her eyes and her smile. I could tell that she was just a kind person. Little did I know just how amazingly kind and generous that she is. She is one

of the most selfless human beings that I've ever met. Thanks, my love. I mean, he's saying all the things that I wanted to say about him. And this is what she loves about Matt. When I saw Matt around campus, I could just tell from looking at him that he's just, he has such a kind face and eyes and smile, and I just was drawn to that. It was true that he is the kindest man I've literally ever met. See, well, you gotta top me now. I'm not gonna top you.

God. Getting emotional already. After they graduated, the couple started talking about the future together. Everything from marriage to having kids. I was raised in such a big family that I just always wanted a family. I always wanted more than one child. That was like my biggest dream in life. Matt felt the same way.

He loved kids and wanted a family with Laura. It was just something we both agreed on right from the start. They knew they'd have to make sacrifices to have the big family they dreamed of. We both were becoming teachers. I mean, the idea was to just make a difference in people's lives. We were never into material things.

We were never into like name brands or anything like that. We were just more focused on having a family together and growing old together like in simple ways. Laura and Matt got married at 31 and right away they started trying to build their family. We started trying right away and it's really disheartening when you're trying and it's not working. So it became like this huge project, which is sad to say. Yeah.

Even if we weren't in the mood or whatever, we'd be like, okay, well, I'm ovulating, so we need to try. And it just wasn't working. You know, you get to a certain point in the process also where, you know, it definitely affects you mentally, the struggle, you know, something that comes so easy for some people.

After a year with no luck, their doctors ordered a series of tests. The trades learned they both have medical conditions that make it difficult to conceive. So their doctors recommended IVF. But the biggest obstacle was financial. One round of IVF is expensive. The cost per cycle is just staggering. This was in 2009. It was probably between $20,000 to $30,000. But to us, there was nothing more worth the money.

Yeah. And I remember like writing down notes and being ready like to have a meeting with MAD's parents to ask them for help. We had to lay out the plan, lay out the prices. They wanted to know all the details and why it was costing this much. But we really had to go to family and advocate for ourselves and be like, please help, we really want to have a family. Their families agreed to help financially, and the couple started their first IVF cycle. The first one wasn't successful at all, but we weren't ready to give up, so we tried

again within the next couple of months of that one not working. On their second cycle, they got a positive pregnancy test. We were so excited and hopeful, and then we went to our first ultrasound and my body was creating all the pregnancy hormones. There was no baby. It was an emotional roller coaster, but they weren't ready to give up on their dream. After a few months, they decided to give IVF one final shot. Our third try, we put in three embryos

and thought that this was gonna to be our last opportunity. Finally, they got the phone call they'd been waiting for. When they called and said that my levels were like in the 900s and that I was pregnant, I was shocked and just elated. After years of disappointment, they were cautious, almost afraid to believe that this pregnancy was real. We had done this before and believed we were pregnant and then we go in for the ultrasound and we weren't. And so the real true moment for us was going in for that first ultrasound appointment and being able to see that there actually was

a baby in there. It was one of the most joyous, amazing experiences of our life. Laura had an image in her head of what pregnancy would be like. I was always so excited to be pregnant because I thought I would be one of those cute pregnant ladies that wear all the cute pregnancy clothes and waddle about and just be happy all the time. Instead, Laura started having preterm contractions at 20 weeks. I was having a lot of them and they were monitoring me. So they put me on strict bed rest for the rest of the pregnancy. We just kind of pushed through like, hey, this is all going to be worth it.

It's going to be worth the wait. She spent the last few weeks of her pregnancy in the hospital under constant monitoring until finally. They woke us up one morning and they're like, we're going to do a C-section this morning. I remember during the C-section just waiting to hear that little cry, you know, just waiting to hear that sound and then you hear it and it's like, ah, it feels so good to have your dream come true. He was a miracle for us. Out of nine or ten embryos that we had put in through the courses of all the cycles, one was successful and it just felt like everything finally was in place

and it was just overjoyed with happiness. They named their son Hudson, which was the name of both of their hometowns, hers in New Hampshire and his in Ohio. Hudson was happy and healthy. Despite how difficult it was to have him the joy of being his parents outweighed it all. And they wanted to do it again. We had still had some of those frozen embryos and we decided to

try more rounds of IVF. They went in with high hopes for another miracle like Hudson. But after their fifth IVF cycle ended in a miscarriage. We kind of did more soul searching. We were like, let's look into adoption. So we started raising money again. Just like IVF, adoption has upfront costs, big ones. We had an adoption yard sale WBF, adoption has upfront costs, big ones.

We had an adoption yard sale and went back to family to borrow money. There were adoption facilitators whose job it basically is to connect you with a birth mother and they want to charge you $15,000 to $20,000 just to talk to a birth mother. You know, it's like, hey, we've got a birth mother on hand. They really need somebody. If you send us $15,000, you can talk to them.

Because they'd already invested so much money in building their family, the traits needed to be resourceful. I have my graphic design degree, so I was was like I'll create a website for us and we'll try and reach out to see if we can find birth moms who are looking for a nice family on our own instead of going through one of these agencies. And so that's when I started creating this website called the siblingforhudson.com. A sibling for Hudson.com, the name said it all. And it worked. Three different women were interested in having the traits adopt their baby.

They talked to them all, screening for the best match, somebody they could see being in their lives long term. That's how they settled on the Spurk Mom, Elizabeth Jones. I'm Jon Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fischer, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. One on one, stay. In 2001, Police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids.

And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew.

All I could think of is, you're gonna sniper me out of some tree. But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years they won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this I'm gonna call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today, and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every

Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. From the writer of Amazon Prime's Red, White, and Royal Blue comes a hilarious and demented new audio mystery Does this murder make me look gay? Master Vandy is dead! Then it's probable that whoever killed Vandy is in this very room Lock her up lock her up. You killed your daddy. You don't get anything busy 911 what's your emergency?

I'm in the Monroe estate and I just caught a murderer. Yes, I'll hold. Featuring the star-studded talents of Michael Urie, Jonathan Freeman, Douglas Sills, Cheyenne Jackson, Robin de Jesus, Frankie Grande, Sean Patrick Doyle, Brad Oscar, Nathan Lee Graham, Seth Rudetsky, Leah Delaria, Lea Salonga, and Kate McKinnon as Angela Lansferri. Lick em, lick those toesies.

Listen to Does This Murder Make Me Look Gay? as part of the Outspoken Network on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. New from double asterisks, an iHeart Podcasts, a 10-part true crime podcast series. Emergency 911. This is a fire in my partner's life. This court is on fire. In the early morning hours of September 6, 2016, St. Louis rapper and iconic Ferguson activist Darren Seals was found shot dead.

Every day Darren would tell her, they are going to try to kill me. A young man in 2016 was killed on this block. Well, I'm a podcast journalist. And I'm a former state senator, Maria Chappelle-Nadal. I was in the movement with Darren, and I've spent two years with co-host Ray Nowashevsky, investigating his death. Even if I did want to tell you something, that's a dangerous game to play. The FBI did this to myself. They've been following him for months.

That's enough proof right there. All episodes available now. Listen to After the Uprising, Season Two, The Murder of Darren Seals on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Matt and Laura Trait were dedicated to growing their family. It was their biggest dream. They made a website where they told their story, shared family photos, and made a heartfelt plea. They wanted to adopt a baby. That's how they met Elizabeth Jones, a birth mother who was five

months pregnant. She said that the reason they were adopting out their child was because she wanted to focus on her career and her husband did too and they had two children already so they couldn't afford to raise another child and they felt like the best thing to do was to find another good family for that baby. Elizabeth lived in Virginia, across the country from the

traits in California. At first the couple took it slow, made no assumptions, and took time to get to know each other over the phone. But after those initial calls, Laura started talking to Elizabeth every day. We're like growing this amazing bond, talking every day and really building a strong relationship. We had video calls. Matt and Hudson got to meet us through a video call. She kind of felt like a sister to me. Elizabeth was stoic, thoughtful. She'd been in the military and she took things seriously. After a few weeks of talking every day, Elizabeth told the traits that she'd made her decision. She told us, I really would love it if you guys would adopt my baby. And we found out

at that time it was a girl. They were overjoyed with the news. Laura and Elizabeth, they'd become really close over the past month. Elizabeth felt like the right person, someone who could be a positive addition to their family, part of the baby's story. We wanted the baby to know where she came from. We were always gonna be honest about that and hopefully we could all have a really great relationship.

So the traits began the legal process, finding adoption attorneys and starting the paperwork. All the while, they stayed cautiously optimistic. You never know if the birth mother is going to change their mind at the last minute. So we're remaining hopeful, but we're trying to kind of guard ourselves a little bit in the process because the baby has a right to stay with the birth mother if that's what they choose. But Elizabeth was all in. She kept telling us, this baby girl is yours and I have no plans whatsoever backing out.

Like I really want you guys to be her family and this is a great match. And we were like, this is a great match and we love you guys. And we're so looking forward to doing this together as a unit. So the Traits started preparing a nursery for their baby. She sent us ultrasound photos. She even mailed us a stuffed unicorn with the baby's heartbeat in it, like recorded in it. So we were like elated setting up the baby's room

here at our house and we put the little unicorn in there on the ultrasound photo. When Elizabeth was seven months pregnant, Laura decided to fly out to Virginia to meet her. Even though it was their first time meeting in person, it felt like a reunion. Laura greeted her with teary eyes and a long hug. We spent like every waking hour together. like we went shopping for baby clothes together.

We picked up like a going home outfit and we toured the hospital where she was going to give birth. We did a professional photo shoot and I had made us shirts. Her shirt said birth mom strong and my shirt said adoptive mom strong. So I brought those out there with me and we had our professional photo shoot. In the photos, Laura and Elizabeth are standing in a wooded area, arm in arm.

They're each making half of a heart with one hand, holding the heart shape up to the camera. They're beaming in their matching shirts. The Treats sent this photo out as their holiday card. That weekend, we also went to meet with the adoption attorney, and she signed a power of attorney, giving us rights to make medical decisions for the baby girl. Before she flew back home, Laura wanted to join Elizabeth at her doctor's appointment. And Elizabeth agreed.

We were waiting in the waiting room and she had said, oh, I forgot my water in the car. Can you run out and get my bottle of water? I'm really thirsty. I was like, sure, I'll be right back. But then when I came back into the waiting room, she was gone. So I had told the nurses at the front desk, you know, who I was and that I'd like to go back with her. And they were kind of giving me the run around,

so I started texting her. Elizabeth texted back that they'd brought her into the exam room. And while she was there looking at the baby on the ultrasound monitor, Elizabeth was overwhelmed with emotion. She asked Laura to wait outside. I was failing for her because I'm here to see an ultrasound with her and this must be hard for the birth mom to have this person in the room with her and she's gonna give up her baby to me.

Matt hadn't come on this trip, so Laura called him to get his opinion. You don't want to push a birth mother, right? Because this is a huge decision you're making. And so, you know, I've said before how empathetic Laura is and how she puts herself in other people's shoes. And, you know, she was doing that, like feeling what this woman must have felt having to make this decision. So it made it understandable that there were some emotions going around. So it made it understandable that there were some emotions going around. After the appointment, Laura knew she had to have a hard conversation with Elizabeth. Elizabeth and I had a heart to heart.

I remember being like, Elizabeth, it's okay if you want to keep baby girl. Like the best place for her is with her family. If you want to keep the baby, it's okay. And maybe you should keep the baby, you know. But we really did bond during that conversation. And she just ended up reassuring me that it is what she wanted. And so I just kind of hung in there and tried to just kind of ignore my gut feelings and just try to see it from her point of view. Laura flew home feeling a bit nervous. She had expected to go into the exam room and talk to the doctor,

but she empathized with Elizabeth's pain and she respected her. After all, Elizabeth was giving their family the biggest gift, and she never asked for a penny in return. At no time did she ever ask us to give her money, you know, which some birth mothers do, like, pay for my rent or pay for my bills, I need help. I remember her telling me, no, I don't want any money, I want you to put that money towards baby girl.

The baby's due date was in late December and the couple decided on a name for her. When we found out that the baby was due right around the holidays, we decided to name her Noella. We thought it was a fitting name for the time that she was due. Laura and Elizabeth kept talking every day, and the conversations were intense,

especially when, in late November, Elizabeth started having preterm contractions, just like Laura had in her pregnancy with Hudson. She was in lots of pain. She had gone to the ER several times, to the point where they put in something called a circlage. It stitches in the cervix to prevent the baby from being born too early.

Elizabeth kept the traits updated on what her doctors were saying. The doctor around this time also did an amnio and she said that the doctor said everything looked good but she had to be on bed rest. The doctor was okay with taking the sirloin out and that it was better to take the baby out now to not do damage to her cervix. The baby girl's lungs were fully developed at that time. So she was begging us to come back out

for the delivery of the baby. Things were happening quickly. It was scary. Elizabeth said her doctors were recommending they remove the stitches and prepare for an early delivery. So the couple jumped into action. We were in Arizona visiting my family for Thanksgiving. So we're scrambling around trying to change flight reservations and, you know, reaching out to the lawyer. And it was just like, okay, it's time to get into action to get out there and finally meet our daughter. I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona.

And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. In 2001, police say I killed my family, first mom, then the kids, and rigged my house to explode in a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the valley. Before escaping into the wilderness, There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary.

And my dog flew. All I could think of is him, the sniper, me out of some tree. But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years, They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave.

Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm gonna call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fischer. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Do you recognize my voice?

Join an exploding house. The Hunt. A family annihilation. Today. And a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

From the writer of Amazon Prime's Red, White, and Royal Blue comes a hilarious and demented new audio mystery. Does this murder make me look gay? Master Vandy is dead! Then it's probable that whoever killed Vandy is in this very room. Lock her up. Lock her up. You killed your daddy. You don't get anything busy. 911, what's your emergency? I'm in the Monroe estate and I just caught a murderer. Yes, I'll hold.

Featuring the star-studded talents of Michael Urie, Jonathan Freeman, Douglas Sills, Cheyenne Jackson, Robin de Jesus, Frankie Grande, Sean Patrick Doyle, Brad Oscar, Nathan Lee Graham, Seth Rudetsky, Lea Delaria, Lea Salonga, and Kate McKinnon as Angela Lansferri. Lick em, lick those toesies. Listen to Does This Murder Make Me Look Gay as part of the Outspoken Network on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. New from Double Asterisk and iHeart Podcasts, a 10-part true crime podcast series. In the early morning hours of September 6, 2016, St. Louis rapper and iconic Ferguson

activist Darren Seals was found shot dead. Every day Darren would tell her, they are going to try to kill me. A young man in 2016 was killed on this block. Well, I'm a podcast journalist. And I'm a former state senator, Maria Chappelle-Nadal. I was in the movement with Darren and I've spent two years with co-host Ray Novoselsky, investigating his death. Even if I did want to tell you something, that's a dangerous game to play.

FBI did this to myself. They've been following him for months. That's enough proof right there. All episodes available now. Listen to After the Uprising Season 2, The Murder of Darren Seals on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Traits and their son rushed to Virginia the day after Thanksgiving and rented an Airbnb. They had packed everything they needed to bring home their daughter Noella. And things

with Elizabeth were progressing quickly. Right after she got her sir collage out, she came to the Airbnb. They had said that she was three and a half centimeters dilated at that time. She spent a lot of time with us after that. We were just trying to take care of her best we could. Every time she had a contraction, she was moaning and groaning, complaining about how much pain she was in. So we were just trying to be there for her to support her through it.

Just trying to love on her and just take care of her. They also took care of Elizabeth's two young kids. We were taking the kids out, her kids out, while she rested. And one of the kids noticed the car seat in her rental car and asked us, oh, is that for the baby? At that point we were like, oh, they know about the baby. Okay. It was a relief that Elizabeth had talked to her kids

about the adoption. Our son and her kids got along really well and spent a lot of time playing and going to various activities together. It just reassured us like, hey, this is going to be great. You know, our families are going to know each other and they're going to grow up knowing each other and that's going to be a beautiful thing. It was also important to the traits to be honest with Hudson throughout the adoption process. to be honest with Hudson throughout the adoption process. He was excited about having a brother sister.

It was something that he really wanted too. So we were telling him that we were there to meet his baby sister. After a week, the baby hadn't come. I mean, that's a good thing. We want her to be healthy. And so we had told her we were gonna go home the next day. I have school to get back to

and Hudson had school to get back to and it was just time for us to go back. And you know, look, we'll fly back out when baby comes. Don't worry. Late that night, Laura received an alarming text from Elizabeth. She sent pictures of bloody sheets on the bed, and she said that they were rushing to the hospital.

The doctors examined Elizabeth at the hospital. They determined that she was in early labor and told her to come back in the morning when her labor had progressed further. The baby was premature, but otherwise healthy. Laura and Matt were elated that they would meet their baby the next day. But the next morning, Elizabeth's labor had progressed rapidly. She sent Laura and Matt even more photos of blood. That's when the urgency set in. She needed to go to the hospital right away. So the traits jumped in their rental car, speeding to the hospital to meet her and the baby. car speeding to the hospital to meet her and the baby. She actually called me on our drive and she was screaming saying there's blood

everywhere and oh my god oh my god the baby's coming you know there's blood all over the car and her husband was driving and I was like trying to talk her through it. Just breathe just take deep breaths. If you put your hand on there can you feel the baby's head? Do you have anything to wrap the baby in? She's like, I have a towel, I'll use that. Then Elizabeth told Laura that her husband flagged down a passing ambulance. They were going to take the ambulance to the hospital.

So we're like, okay, we'll meet you there. On her first visit, Laura toured the hospital and NICU with Elizabeth. They'd met the nurses who'd be there for the delivery. Matt and Laura made it to the maternity ward before Elizabeth in the ambulance. I saw some of the nurses we had met during our tour and I was like, you know, Elizabeth's giving birth in the ambulance and she's on her way. And so they jumped into action. They got a team together. They got a little incubator, the whole team of doctors and nurses and everyone. They were all waiting near the elevators for the baby to come up. Even in the rush, the trades had still remembered all their necessary paperwork. Matt was turning in our pair of attorney, giving them our insurance information, getting all set with that.

The chaos slowed down as the Traits waited by the elevator doors with an incubator. And we were just waiting. And waiting. The more time that went by, the more uneasy we started to feel. Obviously there was a sense of urgency because the baby needed the NICU and here we are at the NICU waiting and baby's not coming and baby's not coming. It felt like time was standing still. They looked down at their son Hudson, who was six. We worked so hard to reach this moment. The dream was finally coming true.

Our son had a big brother shirt on. As the minutes dragged on, a nurse pulled Laura away, suggesting that they go down to the ER to be closer to the ambulance arrivals. We went in those elevators only doctors are allowed to use. We went down to the ER and all of the nurses were looking for this lady. They were telling us nobody got delivered here by ambulance. That gave birth.

And so everybody was trying to figure it out. They're calling other hospitals to see if maybe they had gone to a different hospital with a NICU and Elizabeth just didn't realize which hospital they were taking her to. And then I remember one of the nurses coming up saying, there is someone here by the name of Elizabeth Jones, but she checked herself in for lower back pain and she's not even pregnant. Okay, well, Elizabeth Jones is a common name, so maybe it's somebody else. On the next episode of Betrayal,

the day the traits have been dreaming of turns into a nightmare. She's saying she doesn't even know you. She's saying she has no idea who you are. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email us at betrayalpod.gmail.com. That's betrayalpod.gmail.com. Also, please be sure to follow us at

Glass Podcasts on Instagram for all betrayal content, news, and updates. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.

The show was executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Federman. Associate producers on this episode are Kristen Malkuri, Caitlin Golden, and Grace Bullinger. Our iHeart team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreincheck.

Audio editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio and Nico Aruca. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by My Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast, Missing in Arizona.

And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues.

I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fischer. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. In the early morning hours of September 6, 2016, St. Louis rapper and activist Darren

Seals was found murdered. That's what they gonna learn. On for death, on for nothing. Every day, St. Louis rapper and activist Darren Seals was found murdered. That's what they gonna learn. Own for death, own for nothing. Every day Darren would tell her, alright ma, be prepared, they are going to try to kill me. All episodes available now. Listen to After the Uprising, The Murder of Darren Seals on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2009, Matrice Richardson was released from the Malibu Lost Hills Sheriff's Station,

and she never made it home. Nearly a year later, Matrice's remains were found in a canyon, six miles from the station. Her death is Malibu's greatest unsolved mystery. I'm Dana Goodyear in Lost Hills, Dark Canyon. What happened to my Trice Richardson? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.