Beyond All Repair - Beyond All Repair Ch. 8: Anthony Snow

Episode Date: April 18, 2024

After disappearing before he was supposed to testify in Sophia's second trial, Sean reappears in Guyana under the name Anthony Snow. He has since launched various ventures, including a short-lived ca...mpaign for president of Guyana in 2011, a land development business that’s been the source of allegations of fraud, and a robust social media presence. Sophia and Sean hadn’t seen each other or spoken in 17 years when he video-called her in early 2023 upon hearing that she’s been talking to a reporter. Months after this call, Amory talks to Sean herself. He offers up a new detail about the day of Marlyne Johnson’s murder. If you have questions about the case, the people at the center of this story, or anything else about this series, we want to hear them. Email beyondallrepairpod@gmail.com with a voice message or written message. *** Consider becoming a "BEYOND" member today: This show is made at WBUR, a public radio station, which means we cannot make shows like this without public support. Join our "BEYOND" membership program and receive early access to some of the final episodes in the series, extra episodes, and a private feed of the show for ad-free listening: wbur.org/beyond

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Starting point is 00:00:00 A very quick reminder that you can get early access to the last two episodes of Beyond All Repair by pitching in $25 to support the show. Just $25 and you're going to become a Beyond member, meaning you'll get access to a private, ad-free feed of the show, where episode 9 happens to already be waiting for you, and where you're going to be able to listen to episode 10, the finale, early. You'll also get the Beyond episodes or extra episodes we're going to be putting in there after the finale. And the sooner you support, the sooner we can hook you up with all of that. So just go to wbur.org slash Beyond or click the link in your show notes. Thank you so much. WBUR Podcast, Boston
Starting point is 00:00:52 Heads up, this show contains descriptions of violence and strong language. Previously on Beyond All Repair. What the hell are we going to do now? You know, she just got away with murder. This is a story that was concocted by Coriah to save himself from the charge of murder in the first degree. Shawna's dad's kid, like 100%. They made him out to be this weak, sweet boy scout, and I was Satan's sister. He's somebody that's manipulative, a pathological liar, somebody that it's abusive, somebody that doesn't take no for an answer. I've always looked up to my sister and I never, I've never seen something like this out of her
Starting point is 00:01:49 in my life. My sister was— It's July of 2005, and Sean Coraya is giving an interview to KPTV, a Fox affiliate. Sean had been deported to Guyana two years earlier after testifying against Sofia in her first trial. He was born in Guyana, he'd never gotten U.S. citizenship, and even with the deal he got, he was still technically a convicted felon in the states. But the Clark County Sheriff's Office has now brought him back to the U.S. to testify against
Starting point is 00:02:20 Sofia again, in a new trial with a new judge and jury. I've never not wanted to talk about it. I've never ran from the issue. But a month or so after this interview, Sean did run from the issue. He wasn't happy with how things were going with the prosecution this time. For one, he was basically under house arrest in Clark County, and he had to check in with detectives by phone every day. Some life to live, huh? This is what it means to be a free man, I guess.
Starting point is 00:02:55 This went on for months as the attorneys prepared for Sofia's second trial. So Sean starts thinking, wait a minute, what am I getting out of this? Nothing, really. Unlike Sophia's first trial, when Sean was given a deal, just a year in jail in exchange for his testimony, there was no legal incentive this time around, despite Sean's hope that he'd be able to stay in the U.S. after the trial. I know at the end of this, I'm going to be sent away,
Starting point is 00:03:22 and I'm going to have to spend the rest of my life in a place that's totally alien to me. And they don't care. — Sean was there to talk, but not freely, he said. The prosecutor told him to basically just stick to the script. — What they gave me here are bits and pieces of the truth put together the way they wanted. — But Sean had new information, he claimed. Information that the detectives were ignoring.
Starting point is 00:03:49 With this being the case, Sean wrote in a letter to the prosecutor's office, quote, I refuse to take part in this charade anymore. The key witness vanished just weeks before Clark County prosecutors planned to retry Coriah's sister, accused murderer Sophia Johnson. By the time Sean wrote that letter to the prosecutor, he was already on the run. P.S. he concluded, go suck your mother. Thank you for your time. That was the last Clark County officials
Starting point is 00:04:34 would hear from Sean Coraya, or anyone really. He doesn't go by Sean Coraya anymore. And he's not the cooperative, seemingly scared 19 year old the prosecution struck a deal with decades ago. Sean has built himself a new life, under a new name. Anthony Snow. And Anthony wanted me to hear what he says the detectives wouldn't. I'm Amarie Sievertsen from WBUR and ZSP Media.
Starting point is 00:05:13 This is Beyond All Repair. Chapter 8, Anthony Snow. We're rolling, Paul. Thank you so much. I'm in the studio with Paul Vicus, our production manager at The Helm, and Shannon Dooling, an investigative reporter and former colleague at WBUR, whom I've been talking with about this story since pretty much the beginning. She's been looking into Sean Coraya, aka Anthony Snow, who he is and what he's been up to since getting deported. First up. In 2004, we see some coverage in the news when he was charged with passport fraud in
Starting point is 00:06:02 Guyana. A year after testifying in Sofia's first trial, Sean was apparently caught trying to buy a car in Guyana with a fake Canadian passport. News reports of the arrest refer to him by his middle name, Anthony, not Sean. A couple years later, when Sofia herself was deported after being acquitted of the murder,
Starting point is 00:06:23 she says Guyanese authorities asked her upon arrival if she knew someone named Anthony Snow. I thought, you've got to be kidding me. Yeah, I know who that is. Her mom had told her about her brother's new name. Then, in 2011... This is the first time we see Sean on paper sort of transform into Anthony Snow.
Starting point is 00:06:45 Anthony Snow had his big debut. He forms a political party in Guyana that in his words was supposed to sort of give Guyana back to the Guyanese people and sort of fight against corruption and sort of pro-reform. It's called the Fundamental Structure Group, which was a political party set out to contest the 2011 general elections. And he had himself as the presidential candidate. President Snow of Guyana? Nope.
Starting point is 00:07:18 He didn't win. Didn't even run, technically. He claimed there was corruption within the Guyana elections commission. Two months after he like pulled his name from the presidential ballot, he's arrested. Snow was sentenced to two years in prison in 2014 for causing grievous bodily harm to a customer at his Bagotstone restaurant. It was a patron at this restaurant that apparently, because apparently he's a restaurateur
Starting point is 00:07:45 as well a chef. Introducing Papa Snow's gourmet deli, tasty dishes to fulfill your cravings from the very first bite. Choose from our menu. There was a patron who you know I guess had a little too much to drink didn't want to pay his bill or was you know fighting paying his bill. And Anthony Snow's sort of reaction to that was to beat the crap out of him, basically. This guy was handcuffed, had abrasions all over his face, his chest. One of the police superintendents who actually prosecuted this crime
Starting point is 00:08:23 told me that she believes the guy's jaw was fractured. She said, you know, one of the things I remember, I think that that guy Anthony Snow was breeding pit bulls at the time and supposedly like locked the guy up in the kennel. Like, like I don't know what he was planning on doing with him in the kennel. Just going to leave him there. I don't know. Some people called the police. Anthony Snow is charged. He's convicted. He serves two years in prison. In Guyana. Two years in prison. Wow. That is more, that is twice how long he served for any involvement in the murder in Washington state. Just to put it in perspective. So, there's Anthony Snow, the presidential hopeful, Anthony Snow, the chef and dog breeder who attacked a customer and put him in a dog kennel.
Starting point is 00:09:13 But there's also Anthony Snow, the entrepreneur. One of his companies is called Job Fair Worldwide. Job Fair Worldwide, Be your own boss. What do they actually do? I'm not really sure. Okay. I'm pretty, from the descriptions and how he sort of presents it, it's sort of like a recruitment agency where they help people get jobs.
Starting point is 00:09:37 How would you like to work from home with one of Guyana's top businesses? Do you run a job that pays 25 to 100 US dollars? We also offer free online training to enhance your skills. There's been some really serious allegations about how this company works and one of them got a pretty significant amount of media attention that then sort of like spread to some Facebook posts and some blogs and some online posts that said hey don't do business with this guy. But there's more than one way to do business with Anthony Snow. Another opportunity?
Starting point is 00:10:08 This thing called West Amazon Housing Scheme. Which has drawn accusations of land fraud. Are you tired of paying rent? Considered buying a property? Contact West Amazon Housing Scheme. We currently have house lots available. Enjoy living in a clean and safe private community with your family. Anthony Snow is like selling a dream. He's selling a vision. He's selling a story. And he's selling himself. He's selling himself. He's asking people to trust him, to buy into him and his vision. Don't miss out on this opportunity to get in on the ground floor. Take advantage of this opportunity because Guyana, or at least the average Guyanese person, will only be able to take advantage of these opportunities
Starting point is 00:10:52 for maybe about a decade before the bubble starts to slow down. I was starting to get a pretty good picture of Anthony Snow's life in Guyana, but I wanted to know more about his actual reputation down there. So I reached starting to get a pretty good picture of Anthony Snow's life in Guyana, but I wanted to know more about his actual reputation down there. So I reached out to a journalist who interviewed him in 2019 for Guyana Headline News. Her name is Esther Sobers. The businessman who has had questionable business venture and was incarcerated maintains that he was never involved in fraud.
Starting point is 00:11:24 I've never been involved in any type of fraudulent act in my life. I've been accused of things in the past. Fraud has never been one of them, until recently. Esther and I put a day in time to talk on the books. She rescheduled. She rescheduled again and again. I finally got her on the phone and... I just wanted to say because I was talking to a few people and my husband, I know it, Anthony Snow. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:11:53 Because I'm really sorry he had asked me not to get involved in anything with Anthony Snow. Anthony asked you? No, no, no, no, no, no. My husband because he knows of Anthony and how it is. It was just speaking to me. He doesn't want me to get involved with anything with Anthony. Okay. And this controversy. So I'm really sorry. I really don't want to get involved or to see anything more about Anthony because I know I really want. I'm really sorry. Okay. Well, um, is there any...
Starting point is 00:12:29 Esther and her husband know how it is with Anthony, she says. She doesn't want to get involved in this controversy, she says. And that's all she was willing to say on the record, despite me pressing. But if I had to guess, how it is might have something to do with how Anthony Snow is online. Or maybe I should say, Papa Snow. Papa Snow here coming to you live out of Guyana. Papa Snow coming to you live out of the Gorman Deli. Papa Snow here again.
Starting point is 00:13:03 This is Papa Snow coming to you live and direct out of Guyana with an episode of Tell It As It Is or Shut Up. Anthony Papa Snow takes to YouTube and Facebook and TikTok all the time to talk about all the things to a devoted audience. Happy International Women's Day, OK? Learn how to work together, learn how to put differences aside, and unite. I tend to look at the genetics of a woman and her family prior to going and hooking up with that woman.
Starting point is 00:13:39 And I know I don't want to be with a fat person. Of course, guys, our lasagna is already in the oven, okay? The righteous shall fall seven times. But this is a video a lot of people don't want you to see. Pull your money out the system, crash the system. Let me ask all you women out there who are watching this show, do you really want the man who is truly honest to you? Because I can prove to you today that that is a lie.
Starting point is 00:14:06 The hours of my life I will not get back from going down the Papa Snow YouTube rabbit hole. But truly, I couldn't look away. Because the person you see online today is just such a far cry from the soft-spoken, wafery 19-year-old in an ill-fitting suit that I saw on VHS tapes from 20 years ago. The man the prosecution portrayed as not a man, but a kid, still figuring things out under the influence of his older sister and scared as hell. She told me just to stay quiet and not say anything. And, you know, I was crying. I didn't know what else to do. But now he's Anthony Snow, a built guy in his early 40s who positions himself as an
Starting point is 00:14:51 influential Renaissance man who has it all figured out. Business, politics, cooking, relationships, religion. He's a slick talker who slides in and out of a smooth, sing-song-y, Guyanese accent like a true man of the people. Don't ask people that never do the walk, what going on there, because they don't know, they never did it. Don't ask people that are not where you want to be in life, is that the right way? No, because they're probably not going to tell you. They're probably not even where they want to be in life. You need to ask.
Starting point is 00:15:23 I do also wonder, though, if Esther Sobers, the Guyanese journalist's concern around talking to me, comes from the knowledge of the darker chapter of Anthony's, really, Sean's life. Yes, I was incarcerated. Which he referenced during her interview with him. Because of how the case is, I don't want to talk too many details about the case. It's a very serious, serious issue. Anthony doesn't want to talk details, but the very little he did share was tantalizing.
Starting point is 00:15:53 When I was 19, I paid a visit to a family member who inadvertently was involved in something. Inadvertently? As in, he's saying the family member he visited to get help with his divorce paperwork, Sophia, was unintentionally involved in the murder? She was the one roped into something? I was dying to hear more of what Anthony Snow had to say about this. And pretty soon, I would inadvertently get a preview. More in a preview.
Starting point is 00:16:29 More in a minute. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.
Starting point is 00:17:01 I just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called malevolent deity That is pretty great a dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing this mother Lied like a liar like a liar And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the Wayback machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. A gruesome scandal at the nation's most prestigious university shines a light on a
Starting point is 00:17:44 macabre and lucrative world of buying and selling human remains. Human body parts taken by a manager at the Harvard Medical School morgue and then sold to customers online. So my first skull is right there on the top shelf. That's my first and my favorite. I'm reporter Ali Jarmaning, and this story raises some tough questions. How should we treat the dead? And who gets to decide? There should be some middle ground where we treat deceased tissues differently than we treat old refrigerators.
Starting point is 00:18:15 This is Postmortem, the stolen bodies of Harvard, a new season of WBUR's Last Scene. Listen and follow Last Scene wherever you get your podcasts. Real quick before we get back to the show. I know you listen to Beyond All Repair, but do you follow the show? Are you following the show in your podcast app or subscribe to it or whatever the terminology is in your app of choice? I don't want you missing any new episodes as they come out or having them served up to you out of order, and I don't want you losing your place in an episode if you need to pause it part of the way through. So do me another favor, will ya?
Starting point is 00:18:56 Look for the little follow button or a plus sign button in your app, follow the show officially wherever you listen, and thank you. It's January of 2023. My phone rings late at night. It's Sophia, who I've been talking to for almost two years at this point, but I've never heard her quite like this. She sounds like she's shaking. Sean just called me, she says. Sophia never thought she'd talk to him again. Is this Sophia?
Starting point is 00:19:35 Of course it's me. You know it's me because you got my number from who? Dad, right? Actually, Sean had apparently gotten Sophia's number from their dad's current girlfriend. When I bullied her into giving me your number. Oh, I see. Okay. Okay, well you could imagine my surprise to hear you calling because I can't remember the last time I spoke to you. The last time this brother and sister had spoken was 2006, in Guyana, Sofia says.
Starting point is 00:20:08 That was the last time they'd seen each other, too. Well, let me see the face of your sister. Let my sister see my face. It's been a long time since I've seen you. That beeping is Sean trying to turn their voice call into a video one. Okay, are you there? There goes my beautiful sister. Oh, goodness. Not beautiful.
Starting point is 00:20:31 First let me see. It's good to see. Thank you. You look a lot like, uh, Dad. Like, a lot like Dad. No, I miss Sean. The reason Sean is calling now, it turns out, is me. In an abstract sense. Sean had heard that Sophia was talking to some reporter about Marlene's murder, and he wanted to know more.
Starting point is 00:21:01 Sophia explains to Sean that she wants to sue the state of Washington for wrongful conviction. I did not kill her. I had nothing to do with her death. And I don't think it's fair that it continues to fall at my feet. The Johnsons absolutely believe that I killed her based on your testimony. Well, I didn't kill her. So the problem that I see is that I had nothing to do with it? That thing was worried and I had completely pulled myself away from them. Once they don't got nothing to do with me, I have no problem with nothing.
Starting point is 00:21:45 I understand that the court wrongfully convicted you and you had your mistrial and whatnot, so you're well within your legal grounds to sue the state of Washington. And if I was you, I would probably do the same thing. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay, what's said here is remarkable, but even more remarkable is what's not said here. Sophia reminds Sean that his testimony did her in. Sean, instead of explaining his reason for testifying with something like, I said you
Starting point is 00:22:17 killed Marlene because you did kill her, Sophia, he says, well, I didn't kill her. And Sophia, who's told me time and again she wants justice for Marlene. In this moment, instead of screaming like I was to myself, well then who did Sean? Who did kill her? Sophia just moves on from Sean's declaration. And Sean, the guy who said on the stand that he saw his sister strike Marlene with fireplace tongs, he's now telling that same sister that she's well within her legal grounds to sue the state of Washington for wrongful conviction, that he'd do the same thing in her position.
Starting point is 00:22:58 Truly, what the fuck is going on in this conversation? Since we're talking about this, I cannot even believe it. I'm shaking a little bit because we've never talked about this. Why would you even testify against me? Why would you go up there and say you saw me do it? Sophia. Like, really, what is the motivation behind doing something so fucked up? I went and I assisted the prosecution based on the fact that I was called into something
Starting point is 00:23:35 without my knowledge. Now on top of that, I could have further assisted them and sealed things, but I refused to do it. You're my sister. Now, you're a free woman. You have the ability to sue them right now, and I hope to God you do. I was called into something without my knowledge, Sean says, which honestly sounds like the Sean
Starting point is 00:24:04 who testified against Sophia, but also that he could have sealed things, but he refused to. Which sounds like the Sean that fled from Clark County, Washington before the second trial, because he couldn't do that to his sister, which doesn't sound like any Sean we've met along the way. And he hopes she sues them? we've met along the way. And he hopes she sues them? Why? For her own sake? Or just to stick it to the man?
Starting point is 00:24:29 You understand suing them opens this case up again, right? It does open up this case. I'm going to tell you this. If it opens up with this, the most that could happen. No, no, no, no, no. Sean hangs up. Or the call drops. Where was he going with that? Or where did he stop himself from going with that? I needed to know. Good morning is this Anthony Snow? Hi my name is Amory Sievertson and I work for WBUR it's a public radio station in the United United States. How are you? I'm doing alright. He's doing alright. Maybe a little wary. Wouldn't blame him. What can I do for you today?
Starting point is 00:25:33 Yeah, I'm working on a story that involves your sister. I'm feeling so good talking to you, but can you just give me one moment? Of course. Because I do have a client here. Oh, of course. Don't hang up. I won course. Don't hang up. I won't. Don't hang up.
Starting point is 00:25:47 I won't. I'm standing by. He has a client there, he says. A job fair worldwide client, I wondered. An investor in the West Amazon housing scheme? A restaurant patron paging their bill? Part of me was tempted to say, can you just put the client on for a minute? But Sean snapped me back to the real reason I'd called. I said, I don't really talk to him much. He created a lot of devastation in the lives of the family.
Starting point is 00:26:26 The phone line is terrible, but he said he doesn't talk to his sister that much, that she created a lot of devastation in his family. And then he said this. I've been expecting a call, actually. Oh, yeah? I've heard talking about the family. I mean, I don't really mix it too much with them anymore, but I've heard a lot of chatter.
Starting point is 00:26:52 What did you hear? Do you have, is there any, do you have questions for me right off the bat based on what you've heard? Nope. Okay. Nope, not much. Not much, you know, I'm here to listen as well. Okay. Nope, not much. You know, I'm here to listen as well.
Starting point is 00:27:08 Okay. I appreciate that. Yeah, you know. Well, yeah, I mean- Remember, I'm not really in the States anymore. I'll have to rebuild my life after it was long before we destroyed. My children lost, my family lost. Sean is not really in the United States anymore, he says.
Starting point is 00:27:27 I'm guessing because he's made Facebook posts even just within the last year or two claiming to be in New York, briefly, visiting two of his kids who live there. Sean is a father of six, across five marriages, only one of whom lives in Guyana. How often he's come into the U.S., where else he's gone, I don't know. Emory? Yeah. I am very un- He's very un- what?
Starting point is 00:27:55 This phone line and by the police. But even in saying that, I'm an adult now, I'm here to be a 19 year old boy that was affected by all of those things, and I don't blame them for trying to find the truth behind something like that. And the person that actually victimized me in this whole situation is my sister. She victimized me, she victimized my daughters who had to grow up without me in their life. My wife who had a nervous breakdown, and even to this day, it's still suffering.
Starting point is 00:28:46 He's talking about Suzy here, the woman he was dating when the murder happened, and the mother of two of his daughters. I've tried to reach Suzy a number of times. But according to one of her sisters, Sean's right about Suzy not being in a good place to talk about any of this. As for Sophia, Sean says, I'm not sure why or what she's doing, whatever she's doing for. I thought that she would have been, she shouldn't have been grateful because she had that 43 years. She should have been grateful that she had a second chance. However, some people. Hello? Hello? Oh, no, he was gone. But fortunately, not for long.
Starting point is 00:29:34 Emory? Yes. Yes, speaking. Oh, this is great, because this is much better. I can hear you so much more clearly now, too. I asked Sean to elaborate on what he meant when he said he was victimized by his sister. My sister betrayed my trust. She lured me to a place where she wanted to commit a crime. She committed a crime in the police. Then she tried to blame something on me. When you say that she committed the crime, are you saying explicitly that that Sophia committed murder?
Starting point is 00:30:06 Sophia killed Marlene Johnson? What I'm saying is when I went downstairs in that place, the person that was holding the weapon with the things on them was my sister. Why did you agree to testify against your sister? Because my sister wasn't telling the truth. The truth that she killed Marlene? That she killed Marlene or she knew directly what the hell was going on, but I can only say what I saw. I can't really say anything else outside of that. It's not just me, right? I'm giving Sean the opportunity to just say it.
Starting point is 00:30:49 Sophia killed Marlene. Just like Sophia gave him the opportunity to say that to her face. Why would you go up there and say you saw me do it? But instead, he tells me either Sophia killed Marlene or she knew what was going on. He can only say what he saw. As if he hadn't said on the stand 21 years ago that he saw Sofia, with a stocking over her face, strike Marlene with fireplace tongs. It turned out to be my sister. Why was he hedging this now.
Starting point is 00:31:25 I tried a different approach. I reminded Sean of the letter he'd written to the prosecutor's office, saying he refused to be part of their charade anymore, and the KPTV interview he'd done shortly before fleeing the country. What they gave me here are bits and pieces of the truth put together the way they wanted. Do you remember what was kind of frustrating you about what they wanted you to say and what they didn't want you to say for the second trial? Yeah, they wanted me, they wanted me to admit certain information from my original statement. And the reality is, what I thought about it, I realized why they did that.
Starting point is 00:32:04 Because girl wrong. If she want to tell the truth, she could tell the truth. If there was somebody else there with her that day, she needs to tell the truth. If there was somebody else with her that day, somebody other than him, I asked. Yeah, you got some sense. I saw something else move in the background,
Starting point is 00:32:22 but it was further down the corridor, so I couldn't really see because the place was dark. But you could tell someone what else was there. Oh wow. But the only person who would be able to identify who else was there was my sister. I see. And my sister would not tell the truth. I don't remember hearing about a shadow in the background.
Starting point is 00:32:42 That's because everybody wanted that shit omitted. They didn't want it there. Because it just kind of complicated things. It was a less clear. Yeah, because they would they would complicate the case. Because now now you got to go and find whoever that person was. If you checked my original statement to the police, I even told them I saw something else move in the shadows in that same place where that whole thing happened. I have the transcript of Sean's first interview with detectives, but there are a couple funny things about it. The first is that lead detective Rick Buckner says on the record that they don't start
Starting point is 00:33:35 recording until about an hour into talking with Sean. Why? Why not capture everything? What did Sean say before they hit record? The second strange thing is that right where this detail in the story would have presumably come about a shadow of another figure in the Johnsons' house with Sophia, the transcript reads, Buckner.
Starting point is 00:33:59 What did you see, Sean? You came down the stairs. Sean. I went downstairs. Buckner. What did you see, Sean? You came down the stairs. Sean. I went downstairs. Buckner. What did you see, Sean? Sean.
Starting point is 00:34:08 I see Mrs. Johnson. Buckner. What does she look like? I seen her face was like really swelling. There was blood everywhere. Is she breathing? I don't know. I was indiscernible.
Starting point is 00:34:24 The transcript reads that whatever Sean said was, quote, indiscernible. Buckner. You go downstairs, you see Mrs. Johnson, you go out the door to the right. Is that right? Sean. Yes. Buckner. Okay, I'm not going to put words in your mouth. I mean, truly, that is exactly what he just did, but Buckner. I'm not going to put words in your mouth." I mean, truly, that is exactly what he just did, but Buckner,
Starting point is 00:34:45 I'm not going to put words in your mouth, just want to... Indiscernible, the transcript says again. Yes, Sean says, to whatever Detective Buckner just said. Buckner's response? Indiscernible. And then a note. Remainder of proceeding unintelligible. So, did Sean mention someone else in the shadows to the detectives in this first interview? Either in the hour before they started recording or in this key portion of the interview that just so happens to be gone from the record?
Starting point is 00:35:20 Indiscernible. Well, I know your sister has, she's mentioned to me that she wants to sue the state of Washington for wrongful conviction. But it sounds like from what you know, that, that you think it may not have been a wrongful conviction that you think she that she killed Marlene? Is that right? It is my belief that if she didn't personally do it, because I saw her standing over the body, she didn't personally do it, then she knows exactly who did it. And they were in that building with her that day. And that was the shadow that I saw. But nobody wants to address the damn shadow in the background. And the only person who could really address that could be the one
Starting point is 00:36:07 person who knew everything. And that was Sophia. Learning more about Sean, the brother who by Sophia's account invented a story to save his own ass, who by his own social media accounts has reinvented himself in Guyana as Anthony Snow. And then talking to him and hearing a new story about the day of Marlene's murder that was either also invented or ignored all along, I was confused. More so than ever. About Sean, about Sophia, about what actually happened.
Starting point is 00:36:46 Girl, the worst mistake of my life was listening to my sister that morning. And if there's one thing I could change in my life where I know I made the wrong choice, it was that. My whole life changed that day. That decision altered the course of my life. She's my sister. I would love to save her if I could. But she don't deserve it. She don't deserve it. She's such a wicked person.
Starting point is 00:37:13 You have no clue. You have no clue. Coming up, Sofia reacts to what Sean shared with me. I love the new twist. I do. I love the new twist. I do. I love the new twist. And more twists surface. One that shakes Sean.
Starting point is 00:37:30 Wow. It just gets more interesting. Another that shakes me. All I've wanted is to know what fucking happened. And this makes me feel like I know what happened. That's next time. Beyond All Repair is a production of WBUR, Boston's NPR, and ZSP Media. It's written and reported by me, Amarie Sievertson. It's produced by Sophie Kodner.
Starting point is 00:38:25 Additional reporting for this episode by Shannon Dooling. Mix, sound design, and original scoring by Matt Reed and production manager of WBUR Podcasts, Paul Vicus. Theme and credits music by me. Our managing producers are Suma Tajoshi for WBUR and Liz Stiles of ZSP Media. Our editors and executive producers are Ben Brock Johnson of WBUR and Liz Stiles of ZSP Media. Our editors and executive producers are Ben Brock Johnson of WBUR
Starting point is 00:38:48 and Zach Stewart-Pontyet of ZSP Media. If you have questions about the case, I know you do, I have questions about the case and I've been working on this for three damn years. Email us, beyondallrepairpod at gmail.com. You can send us a voice memo, you can just write a good old fashioned written message. You do you.
Starting point is 00:39:06 Beyondallrepairpod at gmail.com. You can also find pictures and a lot more information on Instagram by following WBUR Presents. Do me a favor, will ya? Quit something you don't need in your life. Drink some water, consider a nap, listen to a good song, eat a treat, go for a little walk, tell someone you love them, and then tell them about this show.
Starting point is 00:39:29 In that order, thank you for listening. Before you go, don't forget, the next episode is already in the Beyond feed, that ad-free feed that we've given to folks who chip in $25 to support Beyond All Repair. Join those people and you'll get early access toair. Join those people, and you'll get early access to episode 10, the finale, and you'll get all the Beyond episodes, or the extra episodes, that we're cooking up right now. Just go to wbur.org slash Beyond, or click the link in your show notes. Thank you.

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