Blank Check with Griffin & David - Beetlejuice Beetlejuice

Episode Date: September 15, 2024

We’re taking a break from David Lynch to answer one of the year’s biggest questions - Is Burton Back, Baby? Ummmm…kind of! Grab your “Handbook for the Recently Deceased” commemorative popcorn tin and join us as we attempt to untangle the very messy BEETLEJUICE BEETLEJUICE. Which sequences wowed us with their sparkling ingenuity? Which plotlines would we excise from the script? What song would you possess people to lipsync to and why is it Bloodhound Gang’s  “The Bad Touch”? And - the most important question of all - why has David Sims not been publishing movie reviews lately, why wasn’t he at TIFF, and what the hell is going on at the Sims Swamp?   This episode is sponsored by: Bombas (bombas.com/check CODE: CHECK) Join our Patreon at http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck  Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! 

Blackjack with Griffin and David Blackjack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blackjack Recognize this podcast? Never seen that pod before in my life. Or after life. I really can't do Beetlejuice. It's been some years. I really can't do Willem Dafoe in this movie.

So then we're unified and failure. Well my character's a little less well known I suppose. Wolf Jackson? Wolf Jackson. Last I considered or last I checked he's the star of the number one movie in the world. Beetlejuice Beetlejuice opening to a robust 111 million? 111. Yeah.

111! Perfect symmetry, spooky. But I think, isn't the beauty of Beetlejuice that he is just a completely open-ended character? This is true. It's what makes it hard to do an impression of him because I think it shifts a lot. Yeah, sure. Business. But I finally, David, many

months late to your recommendation, the recommendation of many others, I finally been listening to the Seth Meyers Lonely Island podcast, which is unsurprisingly my shit. Isn't it just unbelievable how good that is given the genre of podcast it's within, which is usually really bad. I was ready to enjoy it, even if it was the worst version of what it could be. Exactly. Even if it was bad, I would tolerate it. Yes, it's the kind of shit we like.

But there is one episode where Andy Samberg talks about his pitch for a show at Sketch. There was supposed to be a cold open that was Meet the Press, but Tim Russert was out and the guest host was Beetlejuice. And the whole thing was that Sandberg in like 2006, which I'd argue was kind of an idea of Beetlejuice's cultural relevance. Right. Well, it's kind of like how as Myers makes fun of him for multiple times, I guess he kept working Quano from Total Recall into SNL.

Enemy Mindskets. Right. I mean, enemy mine right that his pitch was just what's a movie. I like from the 80s. Can I do it? But Sandberg was talking up how good his beetle juice impression was and I was sort of in this episode going like but no one Does a good beetle juice you can't really do it and then he did and I was like, it's fucking good It's fucking good and I don't have it. I'm sorry. Sam worms, I hate them. I hate them myself. I can get like 5% of it. It is, look, let's just say it.

It is some of the magic of this character. That there is some undefinable thing. That you're like, it should just be untethered chaos and yet there does feel like there's some cohesion to the way Keaton does it. Can you try, can you just say the juice is loose? The juice is loose. No. It was terrible. The juice, it started bad and it went up through the floor.

He's deeper in this one. He is gravilier. He's aged. Well that's what I'm saying. I've seen a lot of people say like, he hasn't aged a day. And I think it is a lot of fun to see him return to this character. I do think you do sense, like, oh, the entire timber of his voice has aged 36 years.

He looks like an old goth, too, with the makeup. Which is just a tough look. What if he played it just, like, spotlight? Like, he didn't do Beetlejuice in this one. He just did a Boston accent. And he was just, like, really, really, like, really't do Beetlejuice in this one. He just did a Boston accent. And he was just like really, really like, right. We've got to get to cotton law. We do the work.

Yeah. You know, like, just like really, really quiet. And then Lee Shriver was in it too and he was like, this is good reporting. This is good reporting, gentlemen. That's my Lee Shriver in Spotlight. There's someone in the movie going, what, what'd he say?

You don't want me to roll. Spotlight. Spotlight. Today we're talking about Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. Look, let's just say this. One week out from its theatrical release, not even, this episode will come out about 10 days after it's come out. People used to yell at us for releasing episodes too quickly.

And now they were, now they say too slowly. 10 days out. Already just kind of a fascinating cultural object. There has been such a tsunami of hype and promotion and onslaught of media ramping up to this movie. After like years of kind of stop and start speculation about this thing happening, you know there was the original rush of trying to make a Beetlejuice sequel

for the 10 years after the first movie. It was going to go Hawaiian. And then there's been like 15 years of like, what if we did a Beetlejuice legacy sequel? And it finally exists and now like less than a week out, I'm like, it is so strange this movie exists and is a humongous hit and is kind of inexplicable and all of us are already trying to remember things about it.

And you saw it last night. I remember so well. I remember this film so well, but I bet you guys don't at all. That was my point. I wanted to see it a second time. I saw it on 9-11. Don't forget that. Don't forget.

And here are some other things you shouldn't forget. Should I not see movies on 9-11 on the 23rd anniversary? Show some respect. Let me say this. Another thing that people should never forget is that this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David.

Who else is here? Marie. Hi, Marie. Hi. Marie Bardi. Marie Bardi. Our associate producer. Yes. Right? Yeah, whatever.

Yeah. Well, I can't remember what I'm supposed to call you. You can call me whatever you want. You're my friend. You're my good friend. As long as you call me, David, and keep inviting me on these episodes. I will. Have I not been?

No. I'm doing my best. Bottlenecking Marie in the pipeline, David. Ben Haase, the producer Ben, is here. Hello. Beetlevape Juice, I believe was the name? That is. Given to you many years ago, because this is a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers say their second movie is Beetlejuice,

a sort of bewildering hit that comes out of nowhere that people cannot really even figure out how to replicate for so long. Not just in literally taking this long to make a sequel but also people trying to make Beetlejuice-esque movies. A film that really now just kind of stands out as like a miracle. I feel like more and more with each passing year how did this thing fucking come together? What are the Beetlejuice-esque movies like The Frighteners? That's a good one. That's a good one. That's a good example. That's a good poll, that's a good poll,

but I also think just to a degree, a lot of the rest of Tim Burton's career. Oh, so Tim Burton trying to wrap. No, but okay, what about... I mean, look, my beloved Casper is definitely trying to throw some Beetlejuice in there. Yeah. Scrooge.

I think Scrooge is a little Beetlejuice-y. Scrooge came out little Beetlejuice-y. Ooh. 100%. Scrooge came out after Beetlejuice? I think it came out one year after Beetlejuice. It's 88. But I think you're right. David Johansson in that movie is like very, very Beetlejuice-y. Very Beetlejuice-y.

I think there's certainly a lot of performance with Howie Mandel. Beetlejuice, Little Monsters. Little Monsters. Right, where it's like, can we do spooky fur with like some family edge? Dried dead Fred? Yep, absolutely.

I also think... The burbs? The Dante boom? I'm making a stretch. I almost think that's something slightly different. I would say a great example is I think Bill and Ted's bogus journey is leaning into the Beetlejuice-y elements of, can this be really stylized?

Didn't work for people. Really visual, really special effects heavy. I think the Nicholas Rogue witches and the tone of Adam's family, that of Sonnenfeld, those certainly are happening partly because of Beetlejuice. Totally. But I think it's just one of those movies, we talked about this to some extent with Ghostbusters on our Patreon, but another thing where people go, oh my god, special effects comedy.

Yeah. I mean, this year we had two iconic family special effects driven comedies that just like are like ensconced in the heart of every child of America. Ghostbusters, Frozen Empire? No, I wasn't even going to make that joke. I was going to say If and Harold and the Purple C every child of America frozen Empire. No, I wasn't even gonna make that joke I was gonna say if and Harold and the purple cream. Yes But sure Ghostbusters frozen Empire 2 which also has a The the younger one falls in love with a ghost lot much like this one. Yeah

his second film Peewee was a bit of a guarantor Beetlelejuice was Tim Burton's second. He basically had three guarantors in a row that kept changing the type of checkbook he had access to. We talked about that on our Tim Burton mini-series, which you can listen to if you have the stamina to make it through 20 movies. Maybe even 21. I try to block out that time. Maybe even a clean Jim Sturgis Kate Bosworth that series of course ended wow

That mini series of course ended with Ben saying that he thought Tim Burton should be spaced Which is send him to space as punishment. He doesn't get without a space suit It's this is his 21st film. Okay. And he has not made a film since we covered him. Our miniseries at the time was tied to the release of Dumbo. Right, it ended with Dumbo. It has been a five-year gap.

He, of course, did Wednesday in between, but that is, I think, the longest stretch he's ever gone without making, without a released film. That is correct. Yeah. And it is a movie that has come with all of these narratives of like, he's ever gone without making, without a released film? That is correct. Yeah. And it is a movie that has come with all of these narratives of like,

is Burton back? Is this gonna get him back? Hope's expectations. What did I say to you over text the other night? Which I kind of stand by. I don't know. I was expressing some skepticism at people being like, is Burton back?

But maybe a little bit of that. What's the thing you said in text? I would not be surprised if his next movie is very good. What's his next movie? I don't know, he doesn't have one. Isn't he supposed to do the like, Hundred Foot Woman or whatever? Attack of the 50 Foot Woman.

There are things he certainly attached himself to. Right. Yeah. Gummy and Flynn. Right, which is exciting. Yeah. This does feel like a movie that is... I equated it in our text thread with the Doughboys to, like, seeing the kids in the hall reunite.

Yeah, you said that. Where you're like, you're a little bit aware of, like, the passage of time. Yeah. And the way it's, like, hung on the people you're watching on stage and also yourself and wondering why you want to see this thing be recaptured. And it's not the disastrous, cynical,

cash grab version of it in my eyes, but you're also just like, it's maybe a little foolish of me to assume that everyone could just get totally back in the pocket. That haven't been said. The movie ends, Ben turns to me, immediately throws up two big thumbs and a smile and goes fun.

And I was like, I gotta agree with that. It was fun. If you start to pull this thing apart, which we are now going to do for the sake of this podcast. We're gonna do it a little bit. I am, there's not a ton on the bone, so I don't know how much pulling will do. I think the only way you can engage with this thing is just like, oh, look, it's a bunch of people like, kind of doing a comeback tour of this shit.

All these actors going back, playing together again, these aesthetics. It's a weird movie when you think about it. Really weird to think about. And not weird like Beetlejuice, which is weird in an impressive way. Just where you're like, why that though? Why, it wasn't bad, but why that?

I think that's how the three of us feel about it. Marie? Yeah, I saw it in London. Marie, do you like Tim Burton or Beetlejuice? We haven't really, you weren't with us when we did Tim Burton. I wasn't with you guys for the Tim Burton series. I love Beetlejuice.

I love- You love the man and his actions. I do, he's never done anything wrong, and I believe in bio-exorcism. Yeah. That's just a fact. It's just science. Yes. Yes. No, I think the Tim Burton run up through Sleepy Hollow is unimpeachable. Yeah, I would largely agree. I love every movie that he made in those, what, like 12, 13 years?

That's how I feel. It's 87 to 99. Yeah. Yeah. And I haven't really liked anything that he's done post-Lebehollo. Like, I don't like... You don't like any of it. You don't like Big Fish? Big Fish is... I mean, I haven't seen it in a while.

What about Sweeney? Here we go! Go for it! Trim! Where Sweeney died! You want a trim and we're slainy, die! Bad. You want a trim in a little slice of maple, we're slainy. I don't, when he started, sort of... Let's go by the sea. You don't like it when the fish are big, but what about the eyes? What about when the shadows are dark?

I haven't seen big eyes. Marie! What about when the... I do love the work of Larry Karazewski and Scott Alexander. You might love Big Eyes. I might love Big Eyes. I could maybe use a few defenders on my island. About when the home for peculiar children is Miss Peregrine's.

I just had to do that. I haven't seen that you did that and not when Miss Peregrine's home is peculiar. I haven't seen that one. I wanted to do it in the stupidest way. But I have an ex-boyfriend who... What about when the weenie is Franken? Sorry, go ahead. An ex-boyfriend who...

An ex-boyfriend who's like kind of a crazy person. Who his favorite, one of his favorite movies was Guy Ritchie's Revolver. Which is a terrible movie that makes no sense. And he also was really into Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children. Is this the guy you were dating when I first knew you? No. No sense. And he also was really into Miss Peregrine's help for peculiar children. Is this the guy you were dating when I first knew you? No.

This is a different guy? This is the guy who I used to date, who now has a movie coming out. Oh, that guy. That guy. Do we keep this in? Yeah, keep it in. I don't give a shit.

Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. But anyway... His name is Todd Phillips. It's called Joker Folly. It's called Joker Folly. It's the most twisted movie of the whole. Marie Barty did not, to my knowledge, date Todd Phillips. That would have been crazy though.

You'd have some stories. I'd have stories. But no, but he was always like, that movie's amazing. Miss Peregrine's Home for the Kill Your Children. I'm like, okay, maybe, I don't know. But then that was like, this is like kind of when we were in the new car smell phase of the relationship where I just thought everything he said was like really interesting and he had really cool opinions on movies and that totally went away when he made me watch Guy Ritchie's Revolver

and I was like, I don't trust a single thing that you said. We will do Guy Ritchie one day and it's partly, possibly, and it's partly cause he made movies like Revolver, but Revolver's not good. No. You're like, oh, crazy that he made this. Yeah. I've heard defenses of it. It's not good.

I, you know, now at some distance, I don't remember how our rankings shook out in this. No, we can't do Guy Ritchie. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Because if he just would stop making two movies a year, we could do him, but now it's just impossible. Correct. We would have to make a jam of like five movies a year, we could do him, but now it's just impossible. Correct.

We would have to make a jam of like five movies. Anyway, go on, sorry. Miss Peregrine with some distance now feels like the absolute nadir of his career, which isn't to say it's his worst movie, but it is the most nothing thing. It's kind of irrelevant feeling. That's true. Like Alice in Wonderland makes me angry. Planet of the Apes makes me angry, you know?

Yeah, but no, no, but I'm like, what are we even? Fuck. Why did anyone bother getting out of bed for this? You think so? You think Miss Peregrine is more than Nadir than Dark Shadows? Those are the two where it feels like it's just but I think it is Miss Peregrine. I like more than you do. Peregrine I think got nothing going on. No, it's not a quality thing. Yeah, I'm just talking about like Miss Ms. Paragren is him being like,

I don't know, what should I do? There's a book about peculiar children. I guess I should do that. So, can I ask a follow-up question to the Ms. Paragren thing? Because I was just in London, which I'm gonna keep talking about, because I need to share my entire theatrical experience. Did you have a poi?

And AJ, maybe throw in some Big Ben chimes. Yes, thank you. Did you go to Fleet Street? Hey, there's a demon barber on it. Snip, snip, you old shame to me. How about a shave? A shave of my poi. I'm gonna murder Sacha Baron Cohen.

I hear the penis he shows in his movies is prosthetic. Has that been on X recently? I don't look anymore. I feel like that's a room out there. And the attacks. Oh, fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough.

Fair enough. Fair enough. All right. Okay. Wait, no. The man's got a rubber pecker. London. I was on a plane. What was I gonna watch?

I decided to watch the first three Harry Potter movies. Oh, yeah, we were talking about this. We were talking about this. Why did you decide? I guess when you're flying from London, you got hours to fill. On the way to London, I watched Molly Manning Walker's How to Have Sex. And Your Ghost Land, the Most Kinds of Kindness.

Oh, great. You're really raring to go. So on the way back, I was like, you know what? I'm going to turn my brain off totally and I'm just going to watch Harry Potter. Did you like either of those movies? I liked Parts of Kindness. You liked Parts of Kindness.

Yeah, me too. Me too. And for How to Have Sex, I liked it up until the end. But while you were in the fair city of London, Sweeney Town, as I like to call it. You go to a... Let me stamp your passport. A cinema. He's everywhere.

I went to a cinema. A voter spelled the other way. Yeah, right. With the E at the end. Right, and purchased a ticket to Gilder's. No, I wanted to ask my initial question, which is why I brought up the Harry Potter thing. I was reading about initial reviews of Harry Potter

and the Sorcerer's Stone, the movie. And there was some critic, I forget who, in a negative review, was like, Tim Burton should have directed this movie. And then that had me wondering, is that what Miss Peregrine is like? Is it his Harry Potter? Possibly, but also in a way where it feels like him being

like, I guess I should have done something like this. I mean, the one he should have done was fucking Lemony Snicket. But at that time, it felt like he went, this feels a little too obvious. It's too hack, I'm doing other stuff. Right, versus Peregrine is him now, like 10 years later being like,

I guess I'll do one of these. I don't know that he would have made an amazing Harry Potter. I don't think he would have. The whole question with Harry Potter is like, would there ever have been like an interesting version of the first movie? Because it felt like the whole enterprise

was more like, no, no, no, like, we can't be interesting. We have to just be faithful. In that sense, it does feel like Columbus was the perfect choice. In rewatching those movies, I do think they work. I think they work. They're watchable. He set a template that was sturdy enough

to sustain 15 years. But I think the template really is the Quarone template. Like what all of the movies after Azkaban is... Well, he's the first guy to elevate it. But yeah. But Columbus cast it correctly. What's fascinating about... He built the sets correctly.

Like, yeah. Those movies is, though, as much as I... I've met Chris Columbus. He's a wonderful guy. He seems like a true mensch. The kids talk about him so, so fondly and said he really protected us for those movies, which is sort of crucial to them keeping doing the movies.

All good foundation shit. The leap in just like voice from Chamber of Secrets to Azkaban is so stark. It's crazy. Watching them back to back is fucking wild. Given that these are insane corporate giant, like money-making ventures, like, controlled by an author, controlled by a studio, to watch Coron come in, you're like,

oh, shit, right, that's what directors do. But that was this whole thing, the Harry Potter thing was like, fuck, Spielberg wants to do it. J.K. Rowling wants Terry Gilliam. The public is clamoring for Tim Burton, and you're like, none of these would have worked out. Shyamalan came up a lot. I love the idea of Shyamalan doing it.

But Shyamalan maybe could have nailed it. Here's the point... Whatever, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Columbus was the right guy for that specific job. Which was the beginning of almost these things being less about who could make the best movie right now and who could set the best template for a franchise.

All of this to say, this narrative on Beetle who could set the best template for a franchise. All of this to say, this narrative on Beetlejuice Beetlejuice for a while that we've all just been kind of like scratching the armrest and going like, I don't want to get too excited, was, okay, he's doing Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. Ooh, this could go really right or really, really badly.

Right, the worst version of this is just like, claw your eyes out nightmare. You did not like this movie, Marie? I did not. But I don't think you felt that level of enragement. You were enraged. No, I wasn't enraged. There are parts of the movie that I enjoyed,

but I do think I let months of Burton's Back, baby, enthusiasm get to me because we were talking, like Griffin, you were getting intel from people like months ago about the Willem Dafoe character and the emphasis on practical effects. This was the big thing. And I'm like, oh my God, this sounds so fucking good.

Right. He doesn't make a movie for five years. He does Wednesday, which is huge. I have not watched a millisecond of Wednesday. I realized it is maybe the only publicly consumable thing that Tim Burton's ever directed that I have not seen. Because my obsessiveness with him was so wild for years that I'm like, I don't think there's a commercial or a music video or a viewable short film he

did that I have not seen until Wednesday, which I didn't watch. And is his most culturally relevant thing he had done in 10 years. Can I just tell you some news? Please. That came over the wires. Oh boy. Clint Eastwood's juror number two will be closing the AFI Fest on October 27th and then

opening in theaters on November 1st. It's just here. Great. Guess what? That's winning best picture. I don't think so. It's winning best juror. That could happen. New Oscar. Or worst juror.

Yeah, I think he might be a bad juror. It's a matter of perception. Oh, okay. I mean, a very good juror in that he knows the case intimately. This is just good so he can pivot to the Biden getting railroaded movie, which I am now convinced needs to be Clint Eastwood's swan song. Oh, Jesus. It's about Biden getting railroaded. the square David. Oh, my God.

Don't you think so? I'm overwhelmed thinking about it. Clint's like, I'm playing Biden. Okay, that's... Holy fuck! That was my one contingency. I only want to see if he's playing Biden. We're going to do the whole debate in the movie. That's just in the movie. The whole Trump debate is in there.

Right. Everyone else in the cast is a non-actor He cast the guys from the train to play the rest of Biden's cabinet Whoever plays Kamala is gonna play her like fucking in the Richard Jewell. What's her name? Oh Olivia? Play that character. Let me just like Play her like fucking in Richard Jewell, what's her name? Oh, Olivia Wilde. Oh, that's right. Play that character, Olivia just like, play her like so evil. Yes.

That'll be Clint Stake. Well, he got railroaded, I mean, he was the president. You know, that'll be it. Anyway. She was out partying all night. Beetle, goose, beetle, goose. Beetle, goose, beetle, goose. There had been this thing,

you and I both like Dumbo more than a lot of people. We felt there was some juice in it, some stuff in it. It's certainly not a movie that wholly works. It's got a lot of the Disney remake problem that we've been so exhausted by. But it felt like one of the only ones, if not the only one, that was actually trying to do something different. And what was interesting about it, I think that you and I both felt, is textually you feel in the movie, Burton starting to fight against, am I a caged animal? Am I a freak that's been commodified?

Michael Keaton playing this weirdo version of like Walt Disney. Bob Iger. Right. And that was our reading into it. Keaton saying he didn't think he was locked in in Dumbo and I'm like, bro. I think he's very locked in in Dumbo.

You're good in that movie, yeah. Let me put it this way. Even if he's not happy with the choices he made, I don't think he's like sleepwalking through that. No, he's doing stuff. He's doing a lot. That movie feels like it's doing a lot. It is a movie that is fighting with itself,

which maybe makes it less functional, but it makes it more interesting than a lot of the Burton movies leading up to it. And it left us in a place of like, is the guy going to reconnect? And then the last five years, the Wednesday thing, I sort of just don't engage with. than a lot of the Burton movies leading up to it. And it left us in a place of like, is the guy gonna reconnect? And then the last five years, the Wednesday thing I sort of just don't engage with,

I felt really bummed out when they announced it. I was like, this is the most predictable thing he could do. He's doing fucking Netflix now, this sucks. But then it gets him this boost of relevancy. Keaton is 10 years into his comeback. Winona's on the biggest fucking TV show in the world. Catherine O'Hara wins an Emmy. Like, suddenly you're like, everyone's kinda back.

Uh, there are a few people who are unback, though. Mr. Alec Baldwin, Mr. Jeffrey Jones, I would say. Those guys are not back. You have this core three actors. Yes. No, it's interesting. With a recent hit. The rebound that various folks had had that had probably helped convince Warner Brothers like yeah, let's do it Seth Graham Smith and

Katzenberg in the early 2010s pre bird man went to Warner Brothers and we're like Has anyone tried to take a new stab at Beetlejuice started developing it then so there been scripts even before Keaton's value went back up and this became a higher priority thing and Suddenly, it's like this is fucking happening. And we're all sort of like, is this a good idea? Is this a bad idea? And then everything that's coming out is you're saying Marie is like Burton's doing interviews where he's like, I'm never working for Disney ever again.

Dumbo was me having an existential crisis. I realized I need to reset myself and get back in touch with my initial instincts. And then you're hearing, Keaton agrees to Bealejuice Beetlejuice on the terms of it's practical. And you're like, fuck. I agree with you that it's- And everyone's saying, Tim's like alive on set.

He seems excited. There's joy. The vibes felt good. The vibes felt really good. At opening Venice, good sign. Good. Sure, some confidence there. At opening Venice, good sign. Good. Sure, some confidence there. Right, and I was hearing,

the range of things I was hearing, there are some people I had heard be like, I think it's a lot of fun, I think it works. I had heard early from certain people, like the script is a disaster, but Keaton's really locked in, and Burton's having fun for the first time in years. And that's been my baseline of just like,

at the very least, I want to feel that watching it. I think that's true. I think that's true. You cannot get around how disastrous the script is. And what's frustrating about it is I was ready for it to be bad in a sort of like, it's undercooked way. Yeah. It's so much more frustrating to be like, this is so overly busy and so overly thought,

and you could take like five things out of it and the movie works 20% better. Like the fact that it's an addition by subtraction solve makes it so much more frustrating than them not identifying what it should have been to me. When was the last time you guys watched Beetlejuice 1988? Very recently. You also watched it very recently. Your husband just saw it for the first time. Yeah, I watched it like the day before I saw this little film called Beetlejuice. The thing that really stood out to me on this rewatch is how simple...

SIMPLE it is. It is simple, although it throws a lot at you. Well, it's what makes this so hard to define, and I want to say I've had a big breakthrough in the last week of I think I finally have sort of solved what happened to Tim Burton. Which we, at the end of that miniseries, I was like, I hope I gained some clarity from watching all these 20 movies of like, what was it that went wrong?

And I think I finally fucking figured it out watching this, even though this movie feels to me the most promising sign in a long time. You can't breathe in space? That's the issue. And you've been trying so hard to space him for years. There is the character in The Waiting Room, where you see all these incredible, like, you know,

Edward Gorey cartoon, how did this person die? There is the character, I don't know if you noticed Ben, that is an astronaut whose face has clearly been sucked through his broken visor. Yeah. Oh yeah. That feels like almost Burton being like, I see you fucking Hosley. You tried to do this to me, I'm here making fucking deals.

I think we should add that to our list of Ben Hosley Easterter eggs in media. Oh, sure. That's a direct reference to Ben. Yeah. David? Sweater weather is officially over. We have defeated the beast! Except in the Blank Jack Studios,

where it's always comfortable, 55 degrees. But the wicked curse of sweater, where it's always comfortable, 55 degrees. But the wicked curse of swether weather. It's over! I said it wrong, I flipped the two words. Listen, sweaty weather has replaced it. Oh, brother. That's true, it's hot out there.

And so I am breaking out the bombas. I don't know about you, Griffin, but in the summertime, yeah, you don't. I'm wearing short pants, as they call them shorts. I wear long E's because I don't like to be looked at. I don't like my flesh to be visible. But because of that, I prefer to wear a, obviously, a shorter Gen Z style ankle or whatever sock, right? You know, well, isn't it,

Gen Z's always wearing the short socks? Yeah. Isn't this a stereotype? And I'm like, cover it up. Socks going up to my thighs, pants going down to my toes. It's all like a TikTok about it. Yeah, Ben's giving me a sort of casual thumbs up. Made with premium extra long staple cotton, Bombas socks are a key to feeling light on

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Look at David little socks. I went to bombas. I was Look at David's little socks. I went to Bombus. I was like, I need some short socks. I went and got them. Yep. Okay. That's what happens. That's the best thing about Bombus. Of course.

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the movie is so chaotic, he's throwing so much at us that it's part of what everyone gets wrong trying to replicate something like it. But there is a really good fucking one line high concept comedy premise to Beetlejuice, which is ghosts are trying to scare humans out of their home. Right? Right? And like we lose track of that. People forget, I think genuinely forget that the Maitlands are the main characters of that people forget I think genuinely forget that the Maitland's are the main characters of that movie I guess they are the spine of the story. Yeah, you know But all this color comes from all these wild dimensions. This is the core problem and I also did a watch through of all Michael Keaton's movies recently for the big picture and was trying to similarly analyze

What was the issue when Michael Keaton kind of lost the Threat on his career. It's a really funny episode because you're doing a Mount Rushmore and you guys talk about Keaton for a while And what makes him interesting and then you're like, maybe so it's like Batman Beetlejuice spotlight or fucking guarantees Let's just argue over the fourth, right? Almost yes I didn't finish is it mr. Mom you made the case for mr. Mom is being totemically the most important in the fourth slot

Yeah, I don't think it's anywhere close to his fourth move you were kind of between mr. Mom and night shift and you guys were all kind of like we don't want to put Birdman on it So we're not gonna write Most people put I just put spotlight on it and be like that includes Birdman by yeah I'm like that's the best representation of elder statesman Keaton dramatic actor. But talking about Keaton comparing him to a lot of comedy stars, and he tried to veer away from this. The thing that befalls a lot of comedy stars is they're funny. Funny is a thing you kind of can't put a price on, right? It's like unquantifiable. Someone hits

or they don't, they get this involuntary reaction from the audience you watch shit like Beverly Hills cop and Eddie Murphy just comes in and he's just like got so much energy. He's such a tornado He's giving it his all he's got so much to prove and you're like, holy fucking shit And then that escalates Eddie Murphy to being a 20 million dollar movie star and you get to the point where 20 years later Studios are like well if we have a script that's good, why do we offer it to Eddie Murphy? The script is funny. We don't need to pay him $20 million to make it funny.

You pay Eddie Murphy $20 million to make something that feels like it should be funny, but isn't funny, funny, where they go, if we put Eddie Murphy in a haunted house, that would be funny, right? A movie that basically attempts to be Beetlejuice, Ha they go, if we put Eddie Murphy in a haunted house, that would be funny, right? A movie that basically attempts to be Beetlejuice. Haunted Mansion.

That Disney did twice of like, if you put funny people in the house, it'll be funny, right? Without having a funny script. And Tim Burton is one of the few examples of a director whose style is so unique and singular that is not just a brand into itself, but the idea of... But imagine if he did the Tim Burton version of this. It was so compelling to studios that for

this guy who has always admitted, I really don't know how to judge whether a script works or not. I know what ideas sometimes excite me, but I don't think I have a sense for like story structure, emotional arcs, any of this. When he's starting out in his career and he's somewhat unproven and he's pushing the boundaries and making movies that cross genre lines and don't really have a precedent, studios are really kind of holding the feet to the flame of trying to make the script work

before they let him get to set. These scripts go through rigorous years of development before they even land on his doorstep. And then I think it gets to a point where they're like, if Tim Burton did Alice in Wonderland, would that be interesting? Just fucking do it, buddy. Right. And they just assume, like, much like if we pay Eddie Murphy $20 million, he'll show up and he'll say some funny shit, right? Well, I mean, the other weird thing, of course, is like all those later Burton movies have

all star writers on them. Yes. But, you know, that probably just belies like lots of passes by lots of people. Right. And what's insane to me about the problems with this script is they don't feel like the effect of too much meddling by a studio. It feels like them being like, we'll probably figure it out on set. Yeah. Yeah. We gave him a bunch of ideas and he'll figure some shit out.

And the best stuff in the movie is the stuff where it just feels like he's just kind of fucking going off. Look, Beetlejuice, as you say, has a core premise that is, it's not a long movie, it's a 90-minute movie, has a core premise that is this cute and makes sense. These ghosts want to get the people out of their house. That makes the villains, Catherine O'Hara and Jeffrey Jones, basically. Yeah. Right. And then Beetlejuice himself is this wild card who shifts between sides. And it's the classic version of you have a greater villain that actually causes

the heroes to unite with the presumed villains. But it also has Harry Belafonte songs, right? It has the sandworm and it has like motion capture that comes out of nowhere. Stop motion. I mean, stop motion. No, it has some motion capture actually. I don't think.

No, it does, yeah. That's true. Those sandworms are played by actors. Yeah, exactly. Carrie All was right. Yeah. That stuff that when you see the movie the first time, you're like, who thought to do that?

Like, you know, like what, the Calypso music? Like, what about this Connecticut ghost movie suggests Calypso music? And yet there it is, right? You know, like. The premise of it is simple enough that he got to color in all these margins with these ideas that you're just like,

where did that come from? Or who else would think to execute that in that way? And it's what used to work for him is giving him a sturdy architecture with also a lot of space for him to fill in. But he needs good bones, right? Yeah, it's just weird with Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice that they took so long to figure out a sequel

because I'm like, you don't need to do much. No. Beetlejuice in Hawaii sounds the best to me. Yeah, the other premise that they kicked around for a No. Beetlejuice in Hawaii sounds the best to me. Yeah. The other premise that they kicked around for a while was Beetlejuice Goes Hawaiian was one of two scripts that really kicked around for about a decade. Right, Daniel Waters of Heathers and stuff worked on that one.

That was, at Burton's suggestion, he was like, you know what feels like a funny area for a sequel is smashing the sort of gothic German expressionism of Beetlejuice with a like 50s, 60s beach movie. And that's like a Lydia movie that was sort of running with Lydia's popped, the cartoon shows running people like Lydia and Beetlejuice as a team. Maybe this movie is more of them working together. The

other script was interesting because it's the other way they could have gone about this, which was called Beetlejuice and Love, and I believe one of the original writers of the first movie was working on this, and that was, hey here's a movie where Beetlejuice attaches himself to new humans. You have an entirely new cast and Beetlejuice exists in a similar role. It was like a dead guy comes down to the underworld, hires Beetlejuice as his bio-exorcist to try to, I think someone was romancing his ex-girlfriend. The whole point of the movie was Beetlejuice becomes

in love with this dead guy's living wife and becomes obsessed with going up to earth to try to get her. A similar kind of like Beetlejuice becomes in love with this dead guy's living wife and becomes obsessed with going up to Earth to try to get her. A similar kind of like Beetlejuice has his machinations. People unwittingly involve him in something, don't realize he's gonna turn up. Again, both of these premises, you just explained really succinctly

and within one or two sentences. You cannot do that with this movie. No. The only way to describe the premise of this movie is explaining what happened in the first Beetlejuice. Right? Like, all of it is sort of iterating on. Because even just saying, it's a movie about, like, three generations of women who have to kind of come back

and, like, reckon with their relationship to this guy. But also, not really. Right. This movie is not about anything. It's not about anything. It's not about anything. I think there are a couple things it could have been about. It's sort of about the multi-... the mother, stepmother, mother, daughter relationship, if it's about anything at all. But really, it's just about, like, everyone you remember from Beetlejuice except the people

who got canceled are back. The kids in the hall are coming back on stage and they're gonna do some of the sketches, you know. And a couple new things that feel like the bestification of the style you remember. In their defense, obviously, it'd be hard to have Baldwin and Davis be in the movie in any sense, cancellation or not, just because they're older and they're not supposed to age.

The logic, yeah, I agree. And I think their narrative is pretty much resolved by the end of the first movie. It's just tough because Beetlejuice literally ends with like, we're all gonna live here together, it'll be happy. And Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice has the one line with like, yeah, we're fucking... We figured out a loophole and that's it. Don't worry about it. Beetlejujuice Beetlejuice has the one line with like, yeah, we're fucking, we're gone. We figured out a loophole and that's it.

Don't worry about it. Beetlejuice Beetlejuice has a lot of don't worry about it. And I like the anarchic spirit of the character Beetlejuice. And you like, you co-sign all of his actions. Yes. And his political beliefs. He papers over a lot of don't worry about it, right where it's like, it's Beetlejuice,

he does magic shit, it doesn't matter. But there is a lot of don't worry about it in this movie Where it's like, it's Beetlejuice, who cares? He does magic shit. It doesn't matter. But there is a lot of don't worry about it in this movie. And here's the- Why can't they see the dad? Why can't they see the dad? Why can't she see the dad makes no sense to me. She's like, I'm so mad that you can't see her father. And you're like, oh, there's like an emotional hook to that.

That's an interesting little kind of curse of like, oh, she can see the dad, but she can't see, you know, this person. And then at the end, he's like see the dead, but she can't see, you know, this person. And then at the end, he's like, I'm sorry, you can't see me. And I'm like, oh, okay. So it's just kind of like, tough, tough pictures. Has the right amount of rules versus, we're not explaining this and we're not making you think

about the fact that we're not explaining this. It has the brilliant joke of, oh, all the rules are in this book. And it's like, what is this book? It's like, oh, no one wants to read it. It's so boring. But then you also have like, oh, so saying like, oh, no one wants to read it. It's so boring. But then you also have like Otho saying like, oh, there's a joke that people who commit suicide

end up working as civil servants in the afterlife. It's a great joke. Which is a joke, but you also like kind of can be like, OK, yeah, that works. The bureaucracy of the underworld. Right. Sure. There's this aspect of like, can Lydia only see ghosts

that are roaming around in our world, like the Maitlands versus the ghosts that are stuck in the afterworld offices. But if so, why did he end up there? Why did he end up there? Right. I don't know. Other than him having a visually humorous death? I don't know. I do not know.

I don't say. There's a lot of that. I don't know how much I care, but it does make the movie feel a little irrelevant. It's kind of unrealistic. It feels sloppy. Wait a second. Are you just saying you detect a cinema sin or two in this movie?

They're not dishing this for me at the end of the movie. What if I say it's not realistic? It's kind of my new thing where I'm just pointing out when movies are unrealistic. Like there's ghosts in this movie. That's not realistic. That's just not something in this movie. That's not realistic. That's just not something that really happens. Where's the proof? Yeah, Beetlejuice doesn't appear when you say his name three times.

We've said his name like 80 times. Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. Can I say what I think is the most unrealistic aspect of the movie? Please. And this is something that's really bothered me. Hmm? The, I mean, the teenage dead kid. Yeah, we'll get into spoilers. Jeremy? Sure. The, I mean, the teenage dead kid.

What's his name? Jeremy. Sure. His name is Jeremy. He's played by an actor named Arthur Conti. Grandson of Tom Conti who played Einstein in Oppenheimer. An actor I've talked about a lot on this show. But he kills his parents, which is a thing I knew instantly.

He murdered them horribly. And then accidentally died. How did the mom die? He put a kitchen utensil in her head. Yeah, like a blender in her face. That was a blender? It looked like an egg beater. Yeah, egg beater. I think it was an egg beater.

How do you kill someone with an egg beater? I don't know, it's probably horrible. It takes a lot of effort and persistence, and I think focus. You don't do it in one shot. You gotta commit to the idea. He died falling out of the tree house when the cops came to get him or whatever.

Right. And he broke his neck. Okay, but the egg beater thing just really upset me. Oh, you just didn't like that? No, because I'm like... Can I just say this? Please. I wanted him to not be a ghost, and for instead,

the fact that you don't see his parents' faces at the start and one's just in the kitchen, and one's just... To be just kind of like an interesting kind of Tim Burton-y commentary on like, -"Ah, teen life is such shit." -"It was such a specific choice that when that happened, I had the exact same reaction." I had the 80% like, okay, they're probably, you know, a ghost or whatever.

I knew he was a fucking ghost immediately, because I watched season one of American Horror Story with the exact same plot line. Poor Tassia Farmiga. I know, isn't it so sad? She can't leave the house. And she's stuck with fucking Dylan McDermott! Spoilers, I haven't watched it yet. American Horror Story with the exact same plot line. Poor Tassia Farmiga. I know, isn't it so sad? She can't leave the house. And she's stuck with fucking Dylan McDermott.

Spoilers, I haven't watched it yet. Okay, well, sorry. But also- This is my new bit, getting angry about spoilers for shows I didn't sign up for 10 years ago. In that show. As if I'm about to start.

There's other twists, I think. There's at least the- Spoilers, don't tell me there are other twists. I think there are, I can't remember. I'm gonna be looking for them. There's a guy in a gimp suit. Yeah. Spoilers! Well, that me there are other twists. I think there are. I can't remember. There's a guy in a gimp suit. Spoilers! Well that was like in the advertising. But you don't know who's in the gimp suit.

I hadn't been watching the advertising. I've been saving it. You're just on the subway platform going, Spoilers! Spoilers! There's like posters there. But like in that show, it's, what's, Evan Peters or what? Is that his name? Yeah, the whole funny thing about American Horror Stories is he's a school shooter.

Oh, sure. And the teen girl who just moved in the house falls in love with him. Not realizing that he's a ghost and that he's a school shooter. Oh, so it's really similar to this. Uh-huh. Sure.

Then she finds out that he's a ghost. American Horror Story. And it also is like, kind of about to wash it. And I feel like they only called it called Ghost House. Right, I was about to watch it. And I feel like they only called it that retroactively. They only called it that retroactively. Yeah, it wasn't Ghost House, it was Murder House. Murder House, sorry.

Well, spoilers! But like the same, like the grunge out there, like stuck in the early 90s, the guys, it's the exact same thing. I didn't watch American Horror Story, so this was kind of fresh for me, but I did sort of like this. Oh my God, I hated it.

I thought this worked for me better than certain aspects of the movie. I didn't dislike it. It just felt like one of many plots. Yes. And I kind of wanted them to pick a reason for things to be happening, rather than have kind of like four half reasons. Well, here's my big thing. I like Monica Bellucci.

Monica Bellucci. I like Willem Dafoe. Yeah. I think both of these characters have fun ideas behind them and fun looks. Yeah, but if you cut him out of the movie, it doesn't make a difference. No, and I'm just like, I don't understand how someone didn't stop at some point and go, hey, it's one or the other. They're basically both similar threads

that amount to nothing. The movie finally brings them and you're like, oh, this is gonna be the crazy, all the threads converge, and this was all happening for a reason. And the builder's basically goes like, man, not interested. It cuts the plot threads. It's kind of funny. And I almost wanna give him credit for being like,

I don't give a shit. But then I'm like, why? Like, we know why Monica Bellucci's in the movie. Why is Willem Dafoe in the movie? I'm really not sure. No. I don't... And it's like having two threads of like,

people are chasing Beetlejuice. Here's the plot of Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. I'm just gonna lay it out. Character by character. I can't wait to try this. I'm gonna do a character by character. Okay. Winona Ryder is Lydia Deets. Since Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. I'm just gonna lay it out, character by character. I'm gonna do a character by character. Okay. Winona Ryder's Lydia Dietz, since Beetlejuice.

She has married Santiago Cabrera, divorced him and then he died in the Amazon. Researching spiders with Madame Web before she died. Yes. Madame was Elweb. She had a kid with him named Astrid, played by Jenna Ortega, but they are somewhat estranged because Astrid doesn't like that she's become, that she is this hack sort of ghost, TV show, spiritualist.

Like Long Island medium, but she wears all like, come to Garcon and Junior wants to not be. But also it seems to take more after her father, to some degree blames her mother for the father being distant, whatever. Right. So Astrid, to pick up that thread, is a disaffected teenager at boarding school. She reads books and...

Like Crime and Punishment. Like Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoyevsky. But she also likes science and just likes global warming. Right. And she doesn't believe in ghosts because she's rebelling against her mother. And it's not realistic. She's kind of a Ben Hosley in that sense. Catherine O'Hara is Delia Dietz.

She's chilling in Connecticut, making her silly art. Making everything about her, doing big projects. But I don't think she is chilling in Connecticut. Isn't she in Soho? She's kind of in New York. She's got like her own little gallery space. Installations. I liked the device of the graffiti artist...

Dying. ...dying and that being... Yeah. Like, when I say I don't like this movie, there are little moments and bits and scenes that I like, that I think are fun. And those bits have innately more energy and creativity to me than Burton has shown in a while.

There's lots of fun stuff. Justin Theroux is there, he plays Lydia's new fiancé manager. He's kind of the Otho of the movie, of like who's the most obnoxious living person, who everyone can kind of laugh at. Kind of a New Delia too. Yeah, you're right, he's both. You know, he's just right, this kind of phony.

He's this like very obvious phony. And then over in the afterlife... Right, they do this TV show together. He is sort of reluctantly plying her with prescription medication. She seems kind of on edge. In the, very much the modern mode of Winona, is this person about to shatter?

Right, seems like a little stretched, yes. Then in the afterlife, Beetlejuice, played by Michael Keaton. Oh, that's who, okay, I was trying to figure out who that was. Seems to be running a call center with a bunch of shrunken head folks. Funny. And then also we have Monica Bellucci as Dolores, who is Beetlejuice's ex-wife who murdered him, and then he murdered her in maybe Italy and like, you know...

And like a very, like, kind of Bava. Mario Bava type movie. I liked everything about the setup of this. Oh, me know... And like a very like, Conan Bava. Mario Bava type movie. I liked everything about the setup of this. Oh, me too. I like that part when he starts speaking in Italian. Yes. Which was, I was like, oh great, this is awesome. Because I saw people be like, do we really need a Beetlejuice backstory?

And I'm like, no, this is the right kind of... It's just funny to be like... He used to be alive, but he was the same fucking guy. A 14th century grave robber who fucked a black widow. And then when she killed him, he got mad and chopped her to pieces. She has reassembled and wants to suck his soul because she's a soul sucker. Not explained. Right. And has maybe three lines of dialogue in the entire movie.

Basically just is introduced seven times, walking slowly through a room, sucking someone's forehead, then continuing to walk. Monica Boushey's looks wonderful, is currently partnered with Tim Burton. Do we know timeline wise, were they dating and then she was written to this movie or vice versa? Not sure, but you know, we're going to rate. Let's just acknowledge Tim Burton quietly

has revealed himself to be one of... dare I say it? He's a legendary stick man. The numbers don't lie. At this point... He has a type, obviously. He's often dating the same sort of, like, you know, beautiful raven-haired goddess type.

Big titty goth girlfriend. Like, sorry. Not always that, but I do feel like he has a gothic type of lady he likes to squire around to. But isn Big Titty Goth girlfriend like a thing? Like isn't that an archetype that people talk about on the internet? Yeah, I think Tim Burton trademarked it and he makes money every time someone says it. Are you telling me the internet talks about tits? Anyway, Willem Dafoe plays a character called Wolf Jackson who is a ghost detective who is like a shitty actor. He was a shitty actor on a procedural cop show who now in death has become a real cop.

Sort of. Kind of. Burn Gorman in kind of a wonderful performance is a fussy little priest. Who's also like a quiet alcoholic. Seems that way. Constantly trying to cover it up. And there's a wonderful performance from Danny DeVito

is a blue-faced janitor who gets squished into a pancake. Who's addicted to drinking antifreeze? Yeah, he kind of rocks. Or varnish? Is it floor varnish? I took it as antifreeze, but I wasn't sure. You know, some kind of product, yes. Would you be surprised to hear that Ben seemed very excited during this sequence of the movie when Danny DeVito showed up, blue, chugging toxic liquids, drooling out of his mouth. I could have done with more of it.

And the inciting incident is that Jeffrey Jones' character, Charles, has died horribly in not a plane crash, not by drowning, but he was eaten by a shark after those two things. I mean, this is a lovely sequence. It is. A real like, fuck, is this going to totally work sequence of the movie where you're like, Burton suddenly cuts to stop motion, perhaps largely work around the fact that you don't want to allow Jeffrey Jones onto a set, a physical location. But yes, you're watching the explanation of his tragic death played out in these like funny stop

motion models that also look a little different than Burton's usual style, I would say. Supposedly Burton said to Miles Millar and Alfred Gow, who wrote the script, like that that was his worst nightmare. Like, what if I was in a plane crash survived and then got eaten by a shark and they were like, oh, that's funny. We'll do that. And his death brings everyone to Connecticut to their old house.

Yes. Alcald ran into your neighbor's to go home because of a loophole. And everyone's here. Yes. Alec Baldwin is your neighbor, Mr. Gumbick is a loophole. And everyone's here, okay? Lydia and Delia are kind of getting along now. Lydia seems just basically a little beaten down by life. It's addicted to pills. Yeah, maybe. And a thread that's also kind of- Abandoned.

Drop. In the first, when they introduce it at the beginning of the movie, you're like, oh wow, this feels like a more bracing realistic thing than most Tim Burton movies touch on. I just saw Ed Wood again recently, they did an anniversary screening of it where Larry Karazewski did a Q&A,

and there's that feeling of like, oh, watching like Tim Burton depict like drug addiction, you know, is like sober Burton depict like drug addiction, you know? Is like sobering. Yeah, it is. And it's part of the magic of that movie is when he lets like the tragedies of real life

kind of seep in for these people who want to live in like fantasy world. And there's a little bit of that feeling of like the two of them fighting over the pills in the bathroom, and then it amounts to nothing. Lydia Dietz, I would say. I don't think Winona's bad in this movie at all. It's kind of nice to see her try to reach back to, you know, her youth.

But her character is the film's biggest problem, I would say. Yes. So here's what I think is the thread of the movie that is the most compelling, that I don't think is the most compelling in execution But the idea they have and I think especially to Tim Burton not to project a ton of shit onto him Tim Burton Had a weird relationship with his father, right? The classic thing is reflected in all of his movies of like I was a weird dark boy Born in Burbank and my parents didn't understand why I wasn't happy

and why I want to spend all my time thinking about monsters and not go out and play ball. You know, the entire dynamic that his short film, Vincent, his first real film project, immediately summarizes, which will be the key text of all of his work. Big Fish is the movie he makes in response to his father dying and trying as an adult to come to terms with someone who has just a very different perception of life than he did and find some common ground, right? Now Tim Burton is at a point where he has children who are teenagers.

College age. I don't know anything about his kids. I'm not going to make any assumptions here. But it is funny in a movie where he's clearly relating to Lydia more than any other character in the original Beetlejuice, right? That feels like the stand-in for Tim Burton. This feeling of, I'm in a nice house and all I think about is darkness. That, I was taking it right. Forget even the family stuff, but just like him being like,

did I just sell out? Am I just kind of lazy now? Like, you know, like that. Part of it, but also that the thing that Lydia is dealing with is that her rebellious teenage daughter is more normal than she is. Right. This weird flip of perspective that he's now able to speak from of I went through being defined by my confusion with my surroundings, my lineage, you know, I was born in the wrong place, the wrong people, then trying to come to terms with them, then

having my own kids, now seeing them become their own people. It felt like there was a perspective here he could talk to. Well, yeah, but I don't think that's in the movie Griffin. I think it's in the setup of the movie a little bit, and it feels like it's not really concerned with it. Astrid is immediately identified as an outsider. We see her being bullied by her classmates, who then, like, put a fake ghost in her room. And...

But I think they're making fun of her because of her mom. No, but still, but still, she's still an outcast. I think there's the thing though. And then when she dresses in her off time, she still dresses like a little goth girl. Well, this is my take, is that when they announced, oh, the Star of Wednesday is gonna play Lydia's daughter in Beelge's Beelge's, you're like, yeah, that writes itself.

She'll just be a new little Lydia, right? And I think it is pointed, even if this movie does not figure out how to totally make it work, that she is a different type of outsider, that Lydia cannot relate to her being an outsider. Sort of, I just feel like you're already reaching for more than the movie's providing. The movie just doesn't have any of that.

Cause it's like, Lydia's a sellout. She's like, eh, I'm kind of a sellout. I do this bullshit thing, right? I'm sort of doing, I'm in my Miss Peregrine phase of just going through the motions. One of the funniest moments in the movie is when Delia is like, eh, I'm kind of a sellout, I do this bullshit thing. I'm sort of doing, I'm in my Miss Peregrine phase of just going through the motions. One of the funniest moments in the movie is when Delia's like, but we kind of figured it out.

And she's like, you only started liking me when I sold out and got successful. Delia's like, no, I liked you before that. That movie's never been real. Katharine Harris is fucking really fucking good at this. She was my favorite part of this movie. She just doesn't feel like she's trying at all. Like it's just, it's weirdly a natural performance.

Yes. Given how affected she is, and she's doing, you know. Anyway. And then, like, Lydia is getting married to Rory, right? Well, they go to... They go to the funeral and Rory is like... Seizes the opportunity and goes, what if I propose to you and we get married in two days?

Let's have a showbiz Halloween marriage in two days. Invite the cameras. Sell the camera, right, sell the rights and all that. You do need to shout out how funny it is that the gravestone is shaped like a shark's fin. It's so fucking funny. There's little shit like this in the movie that are great. His gravestone says, like, father, husband, bird, water.

It does. It does. Like, yeah, there's just, there's stuff. And you're like, couldn't they have taken 70% of the script out and given him more room to do stuff and just found one narrative idea that he could then just fill in the gaps? Rory's like, let's get married on Halloween. And you're like, oh, okay.

So that will be sort of the narrative spine of the movie is like we're preparing for a wedding we nobody really wants to be a part of. Instead, it's basically just kind of like when the wedding is happening, Lydia's like, oh right, wedding, I should go to that. Like she never seems remotely interested in it. No one in the movie cares about it

except for Justin Theroux. Yes, it's a setup for the Beetlejuice wedding. But you don't need that because Beetlejuice can just make a wedding happen by doing this. Which is what he did in the last movie. Yeah, so like who cares? Another weird choice this movie makes is it feels like- I snap my fingers by the way.

Yeah, it's almost trying to do a parody of the, like it's about trauma unpacking like a sequel. Right, and then making fun of that a little bit with the Justin Theroux with all this kind of hollow trauma talk. Therapy speak. Right. And this thing of Lydia like underlining,

like you understand, this horrible thing happened to me when I was a child, a ghost tried to marry me. An adult ghost tried to marry me when I was a child, which is one of those things that people love to say like, if you look back at Beetlejuice, it's actually gonna fuck the whole, Beetlejuice tried to marry a child. Yes, Beetlejuice is in fact not politically correct.

Yeah, I want to be clear. Breaking news. Let's put all jokes aside. No, no, just to finish my lady, please. What is this? Okay, it's about her reconnecting with her daughter. I guess. That's like the emotional thing.

That's what it should be about. But right, it feels like mostly they just are in parallel tracks for the entire movie. And then, you know, Jenna Ortega, what the fuck's it, Astrid, gets sucked into the netherworld and, oh, now we have to rescue her. And she's like, yeah, of course I'm going to rescue you. I don't want you to die. You're my daughter. I love you. It also feels like the whole movie. And Astrid's like, now that I see that you weren't lying, I forgive you.

Yes. And you're just like... I... It was fine. But it's bullshit. Nothing happens, they don't do any work. No, this is the other thing I was gonna say. It feels like it makes sense that the idea of this wedding looms very large in Lydia's mind, right?

It is wild that Beetlejuice is reintroduced in this movie. He opens a newspaper, he sees that Charles Deeds died, and he goes, great, now's my chance to make the wedding happen again. And I'm like, Beetlejuice's thing isn't I gotta marry people all the time. That's how the first movie ends. And by the way, it's kind of means to an end

because his whole thing is if you marry me, I get to come back to the world of the living, which is what they try to do again with Teen Boy, right? I'm using you as my pathway. Right, well I have two parallel plots. There's like three parallel marriage plots, sort of. Which this movie makes it seem like the entirety of the ghost world is predicated

on tricking people into marriages. Which I'm like, I wanna see Beetlejuice have a totally different plan. I wanna see him try some new crazy shit. I wanna see Beetlejuice on a surfboard. Well, that's... With a bunch of fucking Tiki men. Yeah.

Sorry. I just think that would have... That would have crushed in the early 90s when that was like an aesthetic that was kind of more dominant. Right? Your Tiki bar era, right? Your Rocco's Modern Life, your Drew Carey show, right? Right.

And now it would be like, what is this? No, but I almost would respect that more. Because it's even more out of show, right? And now it would be like, what is this? No, but I almost would respect that more. Because it's even more out of date, right? Because it's weirder. Like, my favorite thing about... They always said that script was so much about teen Lydia, and it was her summer camp or whatever, and then when she got too old, they were just like,

you can't do it anymore. One of the things that I love about, like, peak Tim Burton is the way that he combines, like, mid-century American kitsitch with gothic Victorian elements. All these different artistic and cultural traditions. Didn't get as much of the mid-century American kitch. So here's the other thing. In this that I really liked.

The afterlife stuff looks great in this movie I I would say, by and large, because it's practical. Yeah. The IRL stuff looks kind of flat. I actually was really excited for the first scene of the movie because they had the couple that was guesting on Lydia's show. They both had really weird faces. Great Tim Burton-y faces.

And I was like, oh, we're in the pocket. All the Angiomes vibes. We're gonna get back to like weird character actors. And in my head, I'm still thinking about like all of the hype on practical effects and all this. And so I'm like, good, he's like firmly back doing the good stuff. And then everything, it's just that he doesn't really continue on with that. This Edward screening I go to.

Still far away from my favorite film of his. I would agree. Perfect movie. Yes. And Kerzukis talking afterwards. Beetlejuice my number two, I think. Yeah. I feel like that's where I landed back then.

And if I didn't, it probably is where I land now. But he was talking about the first production designer they hired for Ed Wood, they had to fire because he was a huge Tim Burton fan and was like, I'm so excited to be working on a Tim Burton movie and kept on submitting Tim Burton designs and Tim Burton was like, no, this is me trying to do something different and it's just not it. This is part and parcel with the, we don't is me trying to do something different. And it's a... This is not it. This is part and parcel with the, we don't need the script to be good.

If we hire Tim Burton, he'll put his shit on it and he'll make it fun kind of thing. Is you get to a point where everyone's showing up going, great, I get to do the Tim Burton thing. Versus what used to be interesting was, he was having to push and pull people in weird directions out of their comfort zone, you know? And like harmonize all these wildly comfort zone, you know? And like

harmonize all these wildly different things. Like you're saying of like, oh, this weird contrast of like it's Roger Corman, but it's also like, you know, I don't know. It's all these different. Well, it's like Roger Corman, it's the Jetsons. It's also Edward Gory. It's frozen TV dinners. Right, there's so many different things he's pulling from. And now all of that is synthesized as, right, the Tim Burton aesthetic. It's no longer thought of as the separate pieces. It's just its own thing. I just want to say it's his 20th movie.

The list I was working on from Nightmare Before Christmas. Not... I was misreading. You know, like, no. Wow. So this is his 20th. Apologize to Henry, like, no. Wow. Wow. So this is his 20th. I'm slotting it in. Apologize to Henry Selick, David.

That guy, he doesn't get mad about anything. Like, he won't care about that at all. Hey, and by the way, Jim Sturges, Kate Bosworth, you're on notice. You can take this week off. Yeah, exactly. But in a year or two, I might be calling you back up for service.

And I'm slotting this in as number 11 on my Tim Burton list. Huh. There I mean... A list that is top heavy. Yeah, I defend more of the back half than you do. I have it below, I mean, there's obviously the big seven that you talked about, you know, the run.

Big eight, sorry. What do you have it above? Dumbo, Big Eyes, Charlie and Chocolate Factory, Frank and Weenie, Corpse Bride, which is, I just don't like those movies that much. As my, you know, Miss Peregrine, Dark Shadows, Planet of the Apes, some movie called Alice in Wonderland. I think I definitely put Charlie and Big Eyes above this.

Sure. I'm telling you what I think. I know, I hear ya. I'm debating whether there's one more I'd put above this, but that's roughly the space I put in. But I have it below like Sweeney and Big Fish Which are the two of the yeah, you know later movies of his that I like like things about Yeah, and then I put Charlie you guys in that pot as well Charlie just whatever you hate chocolate. I Don't hate chocolate. I'm gonna start this as a narrative

I don't hate chocolate. I'm gonna start this as a narrative. That's just not true. Griffin hates hot fuzz. David hates chocolate. Yeah. I feel like I'm more negative about hot fuzz than you are. Definitely. That's my favorite thing. And I'm not even that negative about it. No. And yet. But let's please repeat that for everyone in the back.

You know what I'm looking forward to? What? Um, The Running Man with Glenn Powell. Yeah, me too. Edgar Wright making one of those. Sounds good. Him possibly doing Barbarella with Sidney Sweeney? No. I'm into that.

No. Last night in SoHo. Barbarella is not... He can't do like sexy things. Sorry. But Barbarella is like a parody of sex. Yeah, I could see that. The sort of British winky. Barbrella's just not like

something really firm to start off with, you know what I mean? Like it's just not a really good laundry. Barbrella's just like boobs in space. A match of Tim Burton to Barbrella. What if Barbrella had dark hair? I'm sure he'd have some takes. Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, uh... Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. So, all the stuff in this movie that has Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, uh... Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice.

So, all the stuff in this movie that has Beetlejuice in it, I really enjoyed. I am a big fan of the actor Michael Keaton Douglas. Yeah, he's going by that now, huh? Mm-hmm, I think so. But only for like, stuff he directs? No, but it didn't happen. He was like, I wanted to do it for Knox Goes Away, and then I forgot. And then when I went to the final edit, I was like, ah, all right.

How is Knox Goes Away? I don't dislike it. Cool. It's a little interesting. I think it's weird that he's just twice been like, yeah, I guess I'll direct this sad hitman movie. And people are like, so you like directing? And he was like, not really.

Wait, he did another one? The Merry Gentlemen with Kelly MacDonald. Yeah. There's stuff in Knocks Goes Away. Yeah. You're like Michael Keaton. He said in interviews, his two big terms, he said for Tim Burton in terms of returning art, I think we gotta go practical, we gotta get back to basics,

gotta get the old crew back, go back to the old style. And the second thing is, you have to resist the temptation to make Beetlejuice the main character. To put me in every part of it. Everyone's going to want to do that. I think we should keep it to the same amount of runtime we had in the first movie. An idea that I think is correct in principle.

But it speaks to the weird math of movies. And especially when we talk about people who like to fucking runtime police how much a character is or isn't in a film, and you're like, it's less about minutes and it's more about feeling, and it's about the division of that and how effective they are in the scenes they're in.

The big thing in the first movie is, you're holding back Beetlejuice for a while because the whole movie is built on the foundation of, fuck, what's gonna happen if we summon Beetlejuice? Right? You have to keep him in the shadows because he's this mystery box. Yeah, the whole great thing in the movie is right, is Gina Davis being like, what about Beetlejuice?

And you know, the... And people are... Gina, no, he's no good, he's no good. You don't wanna deal with that guy. You get glimpses, abstracted on TV, over the shoulder. It takes a while for him to enter. And then from that point on, it's everyone trying to control him

and he is coming and going, right? But it really kind of takes the halfway point for him to show up. This movie, A, starts showing us glimpses of Lydia seeing Beetlejuice as like hallucinations very early on. But then I want to say at like a minute 15, it just, as you said, cuts to Beetlejuice in an office

with a bunch of shrunken head guys. And at that point, you are now just artificially capping how much Beetlejuice is in the movie in terms of screen time versus any narrative reason that he is being held back. Because the movie basically sets up this thing of like, he's trying to figure out how to get up there and do some classic Beetlejuice-y shit. But we're gonna hold back on him getting up there because we've decided we don't want Beetlejuice to be the main character, which is the right instinct, but they have no narrative argument for why he's not getting up there, really.

And it feels like Wolf Jackson and Dolores are both kind of included to have other shit that take time away from Beetlejuice but are sort of Beetlejuice-adjacent. So you have other threads going so that Keaton's idea should be met, right? Here's like the first disappointment I felt with this movie. Teaser poster comes out, reveals that the title is Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. Love that. We're all like biting our fists going like,

oh fuck that's good, is this gonna be good? It's burning back, right? But the teaser poster was also Beetlejuice holding the slip that had the release date on it that looked like his like take a number slip from the end of the first movie. He goes down to the waiting room, she goes take a number, his number's like 20 million.

And he swaps it with the shrunken head man. Right, and the witch doctor shrinks his head. Funny part to end off on. I see that poster, my mind starts racing. I'm like, if this movie opens with the joke of... He's been waiting for all these years. And 36 years later, his number's finally up. That's, oh, the reason why finally Beetlejuice

is returning now is because they finally called his number. It took 36 years. I wanted some kind of tie together for that. Instead, the movie's just like, here he is 36 years later. He's like a middle manager. He runs a call center, which is funny. In theory, it's like he would do a scammy thing. And then he sits in the newspaper, the death announcement,

and he's like, here's my way back. And I'm like, Beetlejuice's thing wasn't that his only portal was this house. His thing wasn't that he only loves marriages. Part of what I like about Beetlejuice is that it's like, I can't figure out what his thing is. And this movie starts to make it like, he's got three moves. Trying to marry someone. Popping through the model.

Right, model, yep. Someone says his name accidentally. Running away from bureaucracy. Right. But nonetheless, anytime he's in the movie, I'm happy. That's my thing. So I'm like, you could put more of him in here. I think the instinct to not have him be the lead character is great. I don't think the movie breaks if he's in 40 minutes instead of 20 minutes.

It's also just weird that, okay, again... Because he's working. Delia Lydia Astrid. The first time we see Beetlejuice, it's because Rory... Justin Theroux... Yeah....is like, I'm just gonna say his name three times, like, this is some trauma thing of yours, I'm just gonna burst through it. And then they go to the couples therapy scene, he spills his guts, I thought that was all really funny.

I think an incredibly fun sequence, the introduction of the Beetlejuice baby, which feels like Burton's got ideas, he's showing up to meetings with notes and he's like, what if, what if, and you're like, yes, Tim, start like fucking brainstorming here. Fennesey made a great point about this though. Shouldn't this movie be like building to the moment where Lydia shows up, realizes that Astrid's been taken to the underworld.

Fuck, I have to go save my daughter. Reluctantly, I call upon Beetlejuice and the whole movie's been like, everyone's trying not to the underworld. Fuck, I have to go save my daughter. Reluctantly, I call upon Beetlejuice and the whole movie's been like, everyone's trying not to say it and she realizes she has to say it. I agree, that's what I'm saying. Why is it instead? Having Thoreau just do it,

to have a fun 10 minute sequence or five minute sequence or whatever, is like, great, we get some great Burton shit. It kind of just immediately deflates the balloon of like, we're just gonna call Beetlejuice in whenever we feel like it and then send him away whenever we feel like it. Also, of course, the movie could be about Astrid.

I thought what I thought the movie was going to be about, which is Astrid goes in the attic, finds out about Beetlejuice, summons Beetlejuice by mistake. Now we've got a Beetlejuice on our hands. And she wants to go because she wants to find her father. Exactly. And instead it's like a different character who winks her into that exact scenario and they need Beetlejuice to get him out. Okay. a different character who winks her into that exact scenario, and they need Beetlejuice to get him out.

Okay. And Beetlejuice once again is like, you know I love marriage, right? It's just a bit odd. Maybe he cares more about family values than we thought. So this is why I like the idea of Dolores being in the movie. Because she's like, I'm the one person as crazy as you. We're destined for each other because we were obsessed with killing each other. And he's like, I'm the one person as crazy as you. We're destined for each other

because we were obsessed with killing each other. And he's like running away from her. And I was waiting for the threads to be like, she shows up at the wedding and she's just like, what is this shit of you trying to marry a normal person? Why don't we just spend afterlife together, constantly doing insane shit to each other? That's not the vibe at all.

Instead, she's just, I want to suck your soul out because that's what I do. And especially when she's not talking for the entire movie, I was like, this is all building up to, at the end, she delivers a big monologue. That's like Beetlejuice, accept your fate. They get sandwormed inexplicably. Yeah.

That's all that happens. They establish a new rule that's like... I did think it was funny when he was like, you look so put together. That really, that did make me laugh. Beetlejuice has jokes. The character himself. Like the other, I'm sorry, we're just nitpicking this movie, but it's like she gets down there and the evil boyfriend is like, okay, sorry, I fooled you. I've actually taken your super

swapping. And then it's like, okay, but he has to stamp that one passport, right? For, you know, to make this official. And she's like, oh shit but he has to stamp that one passport, right, for, you know, to make this official. And she's like, oh, shit, gotta run over there. Wait, is that my dad over there? Like, out of nowhere, they're just like, oh, yeah, by the way, there's the dad, he's on fucking window eight, you know, he's just there. And here's the other thing that happens. They're like, he's gonna get away with it.

How do we stop him in time? Beetle just goes there and is like, goodbye, fucker. Right, she's just behind the counter and like, right, and you're like... Did you say goodbye, fucker, why is he helping them? It's really funny. But okay, the thing... I love how you answer a question like

we're gonna have an answer. I love the lore that is like, you know, hinted at in the first movie. And then I think they, you know, recognize that people do really like the lore.

So they're trying to build on the way the afterlife works. But they're only making it more confusing. The thematic thing to build upon there is what decides what ghosts go where, right? When you start out with this thing of... Why is there immigration for ghosts? Is it like in Coco, where they all come back and they visit their graves on the day of the dead

to eat from the ofrenda? I don't know. But like, again, why? If there's only one way a ghost can come back, it's... But I see the advertising for this and I'm like, Justin Theroux is playing General Ortega's dad? Does that make sense really?

And then I hear like, oh no, he's like the new boyfriend. Her dad is dead in the movie. And I'm like, well there's something here to having like a dead parent there and like Charles Deet's dead. And I like the setup of her being like if your ghost shit's real, why can't you see him? I think it's a good hook.

And then as you said, the movie just at some point has him go like, wait, I'm the dad. Hey, I'm over here by the way. No disrespect to him. I see you. I like Santiago Cabrera in other roles. I think it's largely that this part is underwritten. But it's like the scene where the three of them

are all in the same like conference room together. What? Oh my god. And he's just kind of like, hey, please be nice to each other. Yeah, you, conference room together. What? Oh, my God. And he's just kind of like, -"Hey, please be nice to each other." -"I want you guys to get along." Yeah, you guys make sense together. Anyway, I gotta go. Right. And there's just no emotional way to the scene where you're like, this should be the whole fucking movie's building up to this.

Because the original movie is not treakily. No. But it does have a sentimentality to it, and that's part of the Burton Manage. The thing that struck me about the sentimental core with the original movie, rewatching it now, is how sweet the Barbara and Adam relationship is. Of course, that's what sort of you're rooting for.

Sweet with each other, but also when they realize that Lydia wants to attempt suicide and is writing her suicide note. They want to save her. But also the fact that they- And they're just like, Lydia, this is terrible. Please be alive. We established they're childless, not by choice.

It's like all that stuff, but this is all like simple. And you're rooting for the, you know, you want to save their house because they have this nice house they made. And yes, they couldn't have kids, but it's okay. They still have this lovely house. Now it's going to get, you know, taken away from them because they died.

And Delia's absurd. Covered bridge accident. Her makeover of the house is garish. Like, you're like, this is an offense. But also, okay, another... It's just like there's a real movie and then Beetlejuice shows up in it and it goes like... Right, but also the characters,

even if they're crazy, like Delia, she does still feel kind of like a real person. That's the magic of Catherine O'Hare. Yes, but it's still feel kind of like a real person. Well, that's the magic of Catherine O'Hara. Yes, but it's true. Like, you're like, I understand this person's frustration. Whereas Justin Theroux in this movie is not a real person to me. Correct.

And he's funny in this. He's perfectly funny. He is funny, but he's not a real person. In a way, I'd say even Otho is more of a person. Otho is a real person. I have like no Othos. Of course. Yes.

Otho is like half of Twitter. Yes. Yes! I mean, Glenn Sheddix has left us. It's very sad that he can't be in the movie or whatever. But there's nothing wrong with Justin Theroux. It just kind of feels like a pitch from ten years ago of like, yeah, the therapy speak, you know, fake emotional guy. Which feels like another thing of Burton,

like coming to terms with how much his thing has come like kind of commodified and passe where you're like, there's a guy. That is a huge read. That's a good read. I like, I like the idea. It's what they should be doing. Is this guy pretending to be a Burton guy? It's more what they should be doing. Who basically admits like I go there, like, you know, I go to bereavement groups, cruising

for sensitive women. And then I just was like, I guess if I put to bereavement groups cruising for sensitive women and then I just was like, I guess if I put on the right clothes, she'll like me. I mean, I went to Five Below, my favorite place to buy cell phone cables, charging cables, and liquid death. And obviously we're coming up on Halloween, spooky season. There is truly an aisle they have that is the Tim Burton aisle. And it's like Wednesday, Beetlejuice, Nightmare for Christmas, Corpse Bride. And I was just like there is not a single item in this aisle that is not from a Tim Burton project. And there's something to that where you're just like there's nothing really countercultural about Lydia anymore. Which is why she could be someone who's on a shitty daytime talk show,

you know, selling this version of it that her daughter's embarrassed by, which feels like the stuff that Bertins talked about of like, I feel like Disney just looked at me like a flying elephant. They wanted me to like sell dolls, you know? And she's not really digging into this, yeah. What do you think of Jenner?

It's so weird that maybe this is just an old guy complaining. It's like, Christina Ricci is Wednesday. Like that's such a definitive performance. It's a generation of like, you know, sarcastic goth girls, right? And now I'm just looking at Five Below's t-shirts and there's Jenna Ortega is Wednesday. And I'm like, right, she's Wednesday. It says, I'm not weird. Everyone else is. And I'm like, right, if you're. And it says, I'm not weird, everyone else is.

And I'm like, right, if you're 12 years old, maybe you want that shirt. I don't get her. You don't get Jenna Ortega. I get her. I thought she popped in X? Yeah, I think she pops in Scream and X. I haven't seen Scream, but she popped in X. The whole thing with Scream is.

Scream, we're referring, of course, to Scream 5, essentially. You know, because there are two movies called Scream. One of my least favorite trends. The movie does make fun of it within the movie, which is funny. Jack Quaid has a long rambling monologue about how annoying it is that people do that. Can you imagine if Beeljuice Beetlejuice was called Beetlejuice? Parenthetical 2024?

In Scream 5, the movie, the trailer I remember showed us like, a ghost face is like using an app and I was like If they're bringing back scream for this garbage, right and then the movie I watched the movie and then you know One seems scream 5. I'm the only one only seen the day. She's hanging out today. What are you talking about? He's not here Only I can see him Set this bit up 90 minutes ago. Uh, they...

And it paid off. Jenna Ortega is sort of in the Drew Barrymore role. She picks up the phone and it's Ghostface. I like scary movies and she's like, I don't really like that stuff. I like elevated horror. I like the Babadook and stuff. And it's like in the hands of someone else, that would be so hacky.

And with her, I mean, and I was like, I don't know who this is. I wasn't like, oh, it's the girl from Iron Man 3. I was like, this girl's funny. This is working. Miguel Ferrer's daughter? Yes, she's Miguel Ferrer's daughter. That remains her highest opening, Griffin. That was an important trivia question.

Were you there for that night? I must not have been. Oh, well, we got it right. OK. I'm proud. And so immediately she pops. The only, the biggest problem with Screen 5 is there's not much of her in it,

because they don't know what they have on their hands in a way. I do kind of like her. I haven't watched Wednesday, which is obviously her definitive thing, and I haven't seen the Scream movies. So it's primarily X and this, and seeing some of her fucking interview appearances and whatever. She is one of those people who makes me feel eight million years old. Sure. Where I'm like, yeah, I get it.

And then I hear that young people look at her the same way that we looked at Christina Ricci and Winona Ryder, where we're like, she makes sense. Would you make sense? Right, where we were just like, she says how I feel. She's got bangs, she's frowning.

I identify. I'm not saying she's like doing an imitation of them, but I'm like, right, it's that kind of thing I get it and I do think she speaks that deeply to a generation and I've even like heard people like really it's one of those Right. We're just like right where this is not for us Right, but like I get that she's Presence. Yeah, I know she's natural You don't like her at all. You're just like, you're just when she's on screen

and Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, you're just like, whatever. I'm asking you, Marie. I honestly think that I don't know any actor who could have made some of the stuff she has to say sound good. She's in You? She did a You season? Season two of You. Like the whole like... I'm Marie Curie.

My costume after she got radium poisoning. Yeah, I was like, we could have plus that up, guys. Like, that's not the right obscure reference. It's a little too obvious in a way. It's also not, like, creepy. It's also not funny. She's just wearing an old dress. Like, I'm like, why can't you be wearing something kind of gory?

They don't want her to be little Lydia. But like, not to mention the Babadook again, but the perfect version of that joke is Katie Dippelt's tweet about how she went to this Halloween party dressed as the Babadook and it was more of a wine and cheese spot. We have to talk about the sort of the strays that Millie Bobby Brown caught during the publicity tour for this movie. Wait, I'm sorry, what? Millie, oh, oh, that Burton was like,

Jen Ortega actually has taste, that's so wonderful. Well, no, it was, it was, no, no, no, no, no. I work with young actors who don't really like movies, and then all the boys from Stranger Things were like, we like movies! Yeah. And then Millie Bobby Brown went live on TikTok and was like, is he a flat though? What's going on?

She's British, right? I think she kind of lost her accent. It's one of those weird things where it feels like she doesn't even know her voice. David, do you know that she's married to John Bon Jovi's son? So her... Jake Bon Jovi, wow. Millie Bobby Brown Bon Jovi. Millie Bobby Brown is a more advanced version of Jenna Ortega for me.

I've seen Jenna Ortega in various films. I've seen Milly Bobby Brown in the Godzilla movies. She's in those, right? And that is it. Like, I never saw Stranger Things and I haven't seen anything else she's done. So she is one of those people where I'm like, I know she's hugely famous, I have no sense of anything about her. I feel more of an... I just know she's a flat-earther or flirted with it.

Get it. She thinks she's just... She just doesn't have any education. She's just stupid. She just was like, you know, put to work at the age of 10. I know, it's true. She's toiling in the Netflix line. The Duffers are like, get to work, 11. I'm thinking of William Holden describing Faye Dunaway to Beatrice

Strait in networking going, she doesn't know anything. She was raised by Netflix. You know when he goes like, she's a child of Bugs Bunny. It's just really the greatest. It's the funniest. The shit. The kid is showing the Babadook. Katie Dippel. But that was even I mean, I was trying to make story

sense of this movie and go, oh, they're clearly doing this. So this could pay off later. And I'm like, her Halloween costume is Marie Curie with radiation poisoning because that coloring kind of makes her look like the established... DEADLOOK. Right, so it's gonna be a thing where she's in the afterworld, but she's not dead, but she's able to sneak by.

You're kinda classic Coco, they face paint the skull face on him thing, and it was like, no, they're just gonna kinda kill her and then bring her back to life. Uh, okay, wait, so some stuff we have to talk about still. Yeah, what is... We've gone through the plot out of order. The Soul Train. I thought that was funny.

I mean, this is like all the stuff I want. Yeah. But I'm also like... It's a little bit of an old joke, but like, I just was like, anything where it's like there's production value, people are moving around, the camera's interested in this. There's a concept. Yes, like I'm like, good,'s like there's production value, people are moving around, the camera's interested in this. There's a concept. Yes, like I'm like, good, good, that's fine.

I felt excited anytime. The MacArthur Park sequence I thought was really funny. I did too. Like it does go on a bit long, but MacArthur Park goes on long. That's the joke! Right? No? Yeah, no, like, yeah. I thought it was funny. They're all lip syncing. But I don't think there's as much of a fun disconnect

between MacArthur Park and... Maybe not. ...and the Calypso song with the New York art hipsters of the 80s. I think what's funny... I was sitting in my Alamo being like, I wonder how many people know that this song is MacArthur Park and know what that is.

And like, you know, is that resonating for anyone? Versus Dayo, where it's like, kind of everybody grows up with that, right? Yeah, the thing I like about it is that it feels like the sequence is Dayo where it's like, eh, kind of everybody grows up with that, right? Yeah, the thing I like about it is that it feels like the sequence is Beetlejuice being like, I want to show off. Because of course Dayo is the Maitlands possessing them to sort of like freak them out.

And the comedy of that sequence is them being like- They love it, right. Well, they love it, but also they're like, what the fuck is going on in my body, right? They're like, every actor at that table is so including Dick Cavett is so skillfully playing this thing of being like I'm a ham performing this song. I'm confused why my body is doing this and I'm kind of having fun with it MacArthur Park feels like Beetlejuice getting to do his shit I thought it was kind of funny and, it's watching Keaton do shit.

Yeah. Oh my God, what is that? Isn't that the birthday song? That's another bit we tried to set up 90 minutes ago and we couldn't figure out a good angle. What would your Beetlejuice song be? Like, I have to do a dance number where everyone's lip syncing. I'm going to make people

lip syncing. Oh, oh. It has to be something throwback. But not me, I'm making other people do it. Correct. There is a really specific... It's a really good question, Murray. ...curation to it. That I can't necessarily put my finger on it.

It's throwback-y, but it also, it's like novelty. Maybe a little novelty. MacArthur Park does kind of feel like the right move though, in that it's not doing like a different Calypso song. It's from a different era, it's a different style, but it has the right sort of cultural place. Jimmy Buffett? I guess so, he's kind of overdone.

Yeah. But you also have to think about who are the people that are, like, who are the people that are doing the lip syncing? Because it has to be something that's really gotta to throw them. Yeah. Something like really, really random like Toto's Africa. Like some random people be like, where the fuck do you even find this song?

Just kind of too random. The kind of song where if you put it in any movie, people can laugh. I can only watch this on TikTok next to someone playing an iPhone game. And if we use our place, we're all going to laugh so hard. We're gonna watch this on TikTok next to someone playing an iPhone game. And a Weezer, please. We're all gonna laugh so hard. We're stumped. I'm just gonna say Patti Smith's Because the Night. That's good. I just think that'd be funny. It's the first thing that came to my head

and I'm not letting it go. Mine would be Bloodhound Gang's Bad Touch. Come on, Eileen, maybe is my choice. Coolio's Gangster's Paradise. I think Bloodhound Gang's Bad Touch is an interesting choice in that you watch that now. And I have watched that music video in the last two or three months. I watch a lot of music videos on YouTube. Hooray for boobies.

And my wife was like, what created this? Like, what movements in music led us here? And then was this replicated? Like, why did this happen? It's an absolute cultural dead end. Who are these people? It's a one of one. They're a rap group.

They're a rap group. Right, Pennsylvania. Yeah. And like, they did essentially their version of a novelty song and it was kinda their only giant hit. But they also weren't like a comedy band. Not really, but they sort of were. They were funny. That's also led us. I really, but they sort of were? They were funny.

Let's also let us... I mean, their album was called Array for Boobies. Yeah. And for younger listeners out there, here's the experience of listening... There were fucking 19 tracks on Array for Boobies! The experience of listening to Array for Boobies... Some of these better be skits. The printing, the artwork on the physical CD itself looked like a booby.

And if you put it in a player, it was like the hub of the player would look like the nipple. That was the gag. That's it. There was a kind of a disc based joke. I remember they had that song. Ntsits, ntsits. Okay. I absolutely don't remember that.

It was kind of good. It was kind of making fun of like Euro, like dance music. It's just one of those things where like you watch another, you're like, ah, well, you know what was happening here was they're kind of part of this continuum. Just one thing I'm learning on the... Bad touch, you're just like, no. I mean, from Biscuit to Bloodhound Gang, there's some...

Yeah. Kind of... Kind of. And also, you also at the same time had Tom Green blowing up with the That's something. That's something. That song kind of fucks. It does.

Oh wow, this was the second and last album to feature drummer Spanky G, who left the band to finish his studies. The fact that we were... In what? In studies? In what? Spanky G? In what? In studies? In what? Speaking to you? The fact that we are reading Bloodhound Gang's Wikipedia is not a good sign for this movie. It doesn't say, no.

They didn't release another album for six years after that. Beelge's Beelge's is a huge hit. In this, like, they have guitars? That's sort of news to me. Three of them have guitars right here in this picture of them performing. The one guy looks hot. There are 19 tracks because there were a bunch of skits. What the fuck?

There were skits. One of their tracks, track number nine is called Magna Comnata. Did we say they weren't a comedy band? Can we please retract that? Oh my god, they're from King of Prussia. What? They're from Pennsylvania. Prussia. What? They're from Pennsylvania.

Yeah, well that was like really close to where I grew up. Wow. That's where the mall is. Best mall in America. Suck it, American Dream Mall and Mall of America. No, King of Prussia is the best mall for pure shopping experience. Have you been to the Mall of America?

I've always wanted to go. No. Yeah, but it's cool. I found an influencer on TikTok, who's a woman who, there's one ride that just spins around. Her name is Tara, the spin queen, I think. And she just goes... I'm looking up here, she makes $18 million a year.

She just goes on the spinny ride inside the mall every day and then counts how many spins she makes. Here she is, yep. Yep. Good for her. Let's try and pivot back to Beetlejuice. She's got kind of a Chewbacca mask lady vibe. She looks kind of fun. Remember the Chewbacca mask lady? Is she doing okay?

We tried to get her on George Lucas talk show and she was too busy. With like normal life stuff, like she's got kids, right? I think we were trying to get her... I think, my memory, we were trying to get her to do something for a May the 4th show. And her response was, hey, couple follow ups, A, how much does this pay? And B, how long would you need me for? This is kind of my busy season. What? Oh, because it's May the 4th. Every Every May fourth, she's just like striking that iron again.

Good for her. Good for her. Okay, so. I hope she's doing okay. Delia. Or she like endorsed Trump, but I don't want to know about it. Like whatever, either is fine. Yep.

The snake business. That's kind of fun. Everything with Delia, I think is fun. The snake thing made me laugh a lot, because it felt like a real good middle finger to legacy sequels. Of like, oh, by the way, we're just gonna kill her off. Literally by mistake as a joke. It's the one part where I want to give this movie credit

for some of its sloppiness, that its sloppiness almost feels like, I don't think a pointed satire of that kind of legacy bullshit, but just an attitude of like, we don't really give a fuck. We're not taking this too seriously. I find this movie to be such a relief in that all the ways in which it's bad do not drive me insane in the way of Ghostbusters afterlife

of like, this is so important. Like this movie is just people being like, I don't know. To be clear, and I should say this, I've been saying, I had, my wife just had twins, right? Six weeks ago. You're dropping this news for the first time on this episode. Yes.

Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, more like baby baby. David. Fucking telling me. I'm hearing this right now for the first time. Is this true? Wow, what is there to say? David, oh, sorry, wait, wait, you have a wife? I was just like, David.

Have I said on my, how insane it is that one of the funniest memes of recent years, which is Trump saying, you know, doing, wait, wait, you have a wife? I was just like, David. Have I said on my how insane it is that one of the funniest memes of recent years, which is Trump saying, you know, doing the ear is about one of the worst things that happened to America? I've been using it a lot in our group text. It's really funny. You give it a ha ha stamp every time. It's because it makes me laugh.

But yet you're like, anyway. The fact that he's holding the finger up behind the ear, but wait a second, David, can you repeat this? People may have noticed that I stopped reviewing movies and that I didn't go to Toronto and that the episodes have been recorded out of order, whatever, things like that. And my thesis was you just don't like movies anymore

and I've been really firm in that for several months. But no, it's because my wife just had twins, she had them early, they're doing okay. Bebop and Rocksteady. That's right. So this was my first but this is my first This was my first my point being twin boys. He didn't name him Griffin and Ben We pitched it. It was right there

My point being this was my first film in theaters since they were born, right and I really yeah, you haven't seen a movie in a month. Yeah, I mean I I've seen movies on my television. Yeah, I don't really consider that seeing a movie. I consider that watching a movie. But so I had to like basically just kind of rush out of the house to the Alamo Draft House near my home to see this film. And I truly was just like, I truly appreciated that it is short,

you know, not like 82 minutes, but it's brisk. 97? Yeah, they're dropping the check, you know, and you're like, oh shit, okay, we're almost done, okay. It's light. It's... often funny. It's... energy is high.

It doesn't feel IP managed, it is not self-serious. It's right, it's not doing jerky, legacy-qual stuff of like, oh, you can't believe it, but Bob is back, or whatever the fuck. And my audience was laughing. A packed audience, by the way, whatever. I think that affected my viewing experience. I want to know about that in a second. And I just walked out of there being like,

yeah, that was cute, I had a good time. Yeah, cute was the line. C+, B-, you know, whatever. And it's worth saying, once again, is probably gonna end up being Burton's second highest grossing film of all time behind. Checks notes here, eyes rolling back of head, Alice in Wonderland.

Where did you see it, Marie? I saw it at the Curzon Aldgate. I didn't know they had a theater in Aldgate, but I would say, right, Aldgate is not exactly where like, at least in my memory of London, where like things are happening. Well, this was like a very fancy theater.

Yes, it was very fancy. And it was like part of a whole like- You can have a pizza here. Right, so you had a lot of like a tuxedoed gentleman with tea and crumpets going, oh, well, I never, every time Beetlejuice showed up on screen. There were like maybe like 12 people in the theater. Sure. No one left. I will also say Beetlejuice showed up on screen. There were maybe like 12 people in the theater.

Sure. No one left. I will also say, Beetlejuice is not, I feel like, as much of a thing in Britain. I was going to ask. I don't know, he doesn't really have much cultural footprint. I'm serious. And so there might not be as much excitement about that movie there.

Might not be the place to see it. Because I saw it with a packed audience. It's not like they were screaming, but they were laughing the whole time. They were having a good time. I think our crowd was maybe halfway between the two points. And yet, we saw it like Wednesday night, early access screenings. We did see it Wednesday, Adams. Where did you see it?

We saw it at the Regal Union Square in RPX. It was like the one early screening they had, you know, a ticketed event. But like we're showing it one day early. And I point out to Ben, I think 30 to 40% of the audience was wearing something Beetlejuice themed. Lot of stripes. Griffin, of course, missed sort of the early part of the movie.

He was trying to get... I missed the opening credits. The bucket line was very long. You didn't get the bucket? I got the bucket. Oh, you did? I didn't know you got it. Did you bring it? Oh my god. I see it I got the handbook for the recent oh, oh that makes me happy I have about four more buckets to collect

I appreciate the buckets are more steeped in the iconography of the first movie than the sequel specifically I'm not sure I'd buy a wolf Jackson bucket, but hey that having been said what's he doing? Oh? Look oh my goodness. Oh, he's throwing tat at us. Oh my god! Beetlejuice plush danglers! We all got a box of plush danglers. Let's see what I'm getting here. These were at Target near the checkout.

Are these like mystery or is it? Yeah, these are mystery. This is what we call the mystery box. Okay. We're gonna find out who we get. Oh, this is really exciting. Okay, now we get some great ASMR for our listeners. I got Lydia, right? Is that Lydia?

Correct. Yay! Yes, wearing the wedding dress. There's eight, but there she is in her little red dress. Okay, I got Dolores. Dolores! Monica Bellucci is wonderful. I got spill your guts beetle juice.

That's a fucking good one. He's got guts coming up. You got Lydia too Watch out for wait Tim Burton might try to marry your Dolores figure by the way, so look out I Don't know what I'll do with this David now that you've Dropped news of you becoming daddy. Yeah, three I was like am I gonna announce this in some way and I'm like, I'm not gonna fucking return to Twitter for that. No, don't do it.

Can I float a take that I believe I've auditioned for both Ben and Maria in the past? I've been building up to this moment. And I, you know what? I'm just putting it out there. I'm not even saying this is my belief. I want the listeners to do with this what they will. You are now a father of three. I ask this question to the public. Is David Shrek?

Let's look at the facts. Okay. He's got an annoying little friend who won't stop talking. Boom. A tall, beautiful wife. Yes, similarly tall. He is constantly yelling for everyone to stay on the swamp. That's so true.

This is my home. You're welcome over him, just, but you're saying I kind of need my... And the same begrudging way he says to Pinocchio, fine, I guess you can stay for dinner. No memory of that, but sure. Ben is putting boots. Okay, sure. Yeah. Like, just confident.

We couldn't align on someone for me. No, it's tough Ben is puttin' boots. Okay. Sure. Yeah. Like, just confident. We couldn't align on someone for me. No, it's tough. Marie, it's a tough fit. You could argue she's fairy godmother. But isn't she evil? Yeah. Farquaad? She's definitely not a Farquaad.

Just trying to think of Shrek character. Could you say AJ? I don't think you're dragon. Wait, who just said that? Who is it? Rumble Silskkin? Who's in Shrek? I put forth the idea. Griffin suggested Rumpelstiltskin. A little bit of a troublemaker.

Yeah. David, even your response to me saying Father of Three... I just don't know about Shrek. That's the kind of full-body side Shrek would go. I mean, look, as people, if anyone out, if any listeners had a kid and then had twins after they had the kid, you know, get in touch and let me know, you know, how to do it. Cause it's hard, it's hard so far.

We're figuring it out. That's what the Shrek movies are about. Being grownups are. Well, that's, I was gonna say, did Shrek have kids in that order? Shrek has children. No, I thought they were triplets. But it's one girl and two boys.

Fergus? Well, that is Farisha. And Farkel. Yeah. And when are they born? Are they born in three, four? How many Shrek's? Three starts with Fiona telling him that she's pregnant. Then he has an extended nightmare sequence

about there being like 80 babies. And at the end of the movie, they're born. To be clear, I have seen Shrek, I would say probably like three times over the years. I've seen Shrek two once in theaters. I have not seen the other Shreks. I've not seen Puss in Boots or Puss in Boots The Last Wish. Well, cause they're spoilers for your own life.

You don't want to get ahead. And of course I have seen the cursed, I feel good animation test version of Shrek from 1993 that looks insane. I'm so happy you invoked that. Anyway, do we have anything else we want to say about Beetlejuice Beetlejuice before we play the box office game? I liked Bob. Shout out to Bob. Oh, very funny.

Yeah, that's what I'm on. He's got all this full of shrinkers. Yeah. And... Um... yeah. That's what I'm on. He's got a full of shrankers. Yeah. And... Is that just kind of like, because it's like, that's a great image from Beetlejuice, and we'll just reuse it?

I think kind of. It doesn't totally make sense in construction. It wasn't unfunny. Like, those guys are funny. Well, and I was gonna say, I actually think the, like, the puppeteering of Bob is incredible. And when we saw it in the theater, the audience was clearly sympathizing with Bob so much.

He has such an expressive face. They work so well. My like, dour London audience did come alive for Bob. Yeah, the Bob stuff made people laugh. Like Bob hiding under the desk and the feeling of like these other like, shrankers are kind of chaotic, but Bob is trying to keep order.

This scene where Monica Bellucci just kind of unceremoniously sucks his head and he's dead, I was just like, this is the biggest narrative mistake this movie makes. We're more into Bob. It felt like the audience was emotionally attached to Bob. That's why I kind of liked it. People actually kind of seemed to dislike that she did that. I liked that Bob's eyes popped like balloons. Yeah.

Yeah, and then of course, it's a bit undone. I liked the way his little mouth moved after it was unsound. Yeah. But the only problem is then of course, you're like, they're kind of making Marlon Povolucci scary. And then the movie's like, nah, don't worry about her. She's bullshit. Although look at this.

Boo! Oh, no! She's here with her staple face. Stingler. That sequence is fun. The stapling sequence is fun. I thought so. For sure. Yeah, with the Bee Gees song. That was cool. Tragedy. Yes.

This is like a real Gentleman 6 for me, where I'm like, it's losing points for having one of the most dysfunctional scripts I have ever seen on a major budgeted film. It is gaining points for just like there is enough stuff in it that I thought was kind of funny or cool looking that it like evens out to a six. But I sort of just want to see him learn the right lessons from this. I want to be like a reactivation that then sets him on a path to just like, great, now let me focus on like telling a focus story

and putting my color on top of it. Can I say something about Monica Bellucci? People, I saw some early kind of like, she's really wasted in this movie. And I was sort of like... She's drunk? Off her ass! And I was kind of like, Monica Bellucci's not like a bad actress

or whatever, but like, it's not like, I've never thought of her as like an incredible actress. She's like a cool arresting screen presence. But like when I but like, it's not like, I've never thought of her as like an incredible actress. She's like a cool arresting screen presence. But like when I'm like, ah, what are the definitive like Monica Bellucci roles? I was kind of like, brotherhood of the wolf, I guess. Make sure it's reloaded in Revolutions? I like her in those, like, that sort of sums up

exactly what I think of her, which is like, yeah, she really pops on screen. Sure. But like, she's not like a serious weighty actor. Like, you know, she's fine. She's good and irreversible, I guess. That movie's so punishing and awful. Yeah, he just kind of uses her in this like the Martian spy girl played

by a previous serious relation of his, Lisa Marie, which is like one sequence and is a bravura sequence. Right, she's perfectly applied. The camera loves her. And by the way, she's really funny in Ed Wood, where she has a lot more dialogue and everything. Lisa Marie.

Yes, I'm saying. Right, but it just feels like they spend so much time setting up the Belushi thing that you just think it's gonna pay off into something. To be clear, I like her. I just was sort of like, but she's not like, a titan of French cinema acting. She's like, you know.

Well, she's Italian. Well, she's Italian for one. From kind of early work in, yeah, right. She's like good, right? Like, we're like pretty. Was previously married to, of course, Vincent Casanova. Masura Hood from the first Shrek movie.

Oui oui. I could've used more worm. Yeah, you could a little bit. It is funny that, like, someone asked Burton in an interview why he didn't do anything with the Maitlands, and he said, you know, I don't... I wanted to resist the impulse to feel like we needed to check all the boxes. Which I'm like, that's the thing I want to hear that this movie isn't just feeling the

need to replicate everything. And then you look at the list and you're like, they basically replicate everything else. They do a wedding in the sand worms and the shrunken head guy. They got the theme. They got the same font. The book, the model, the sign. Yeah. Look, I hate like the sort of thing of like journalists being like, why isn't Alec Baldwin in this movie? He's like, get the sign. Yeah. Look, I hate, like, the sort of thing of, like, journalists being like,

why isn't Alec Baldwin in this movie? He's like, get the fuck over here. He's not gonna... I didn't want to cast him. He's had a lot of legal trouble recently. Like, what, he's gonna say that out loud? No. Just, he's gonna be like, nah, I didn't want to deal with that. Even beyond that, I think there's actually... There's actually reasons within...

There is. There is. In theory, they would not have aged. It's been 36 years. Every other character, either the passage of time makes sense on them or Beetlejuice is basically some weird, immortal force. I agree. It would be hard to work them in, but of course, in a world where they're both still giant stars, they'd probably get worked in.

Possibly, but then there's the other side of it of Burton being like, what, you want me to digitally de-age them? No one would be happy if I did that. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm like, so forget it. You put them in for one scene as like weird, ghastly CGI ghosts? Forget it. Can I say a thing I liked about Winona in this? Uh, yeah.

Someone who was very big to us. I love Winona and I think she's good in this, if struggling to kind of know what to do with this character, but she's fine. But what I like is, and when the first images came out, and it was like, oh my God, they have her in the whole outfit, this looks a little cosplay-ish. And I like performances she's given in the last 15 years,

but there is this feeling of like, she was so important culturally, and it is so hard to really remember how big the fucking shoplifting thing was, that that was treated as like the hugest celebrity scandal. And people would not stop making jokes about it. And then it was this feeling of like, is she like losing her mind and we're not talking about this? It was really weird that she did it because she was famous and seemingly rich.

So it was like, why is she doing that? What happened was like that happens. Everyone's like, what the fuck was this? And then a year later, she like hosts SNL, Mr. Deeds comes out, it's a hit, she's like doing the press rounds and everyone's like, she's making jokes about it and she seems kind of normal. And then that basically ends her mainstream movie career. Yeah. Like post Mr. Deeds, the cycle where it felt like, oh, she kind of reclaimed it. This is like her first leader, co-lead in a studio movie

in 22 years. I think the movies I've seen her in in between are Scanner, which she's amazing in. But you know, it wasn't any movie. Star Trek, which she's excellent in, but it's a small role. Black Swan. Black Swan, which she's kind of excellent in and that's maybe a really clever use of her.

Star Trek, Black Swan are both in this mold of like, what's the way to bring Winona back? What is the kind of interesting meta casting of legacy Winona? And then Experimenter, which she's great in, but is somewhat unheralded movie, but I like that movie. Private Life of Pippalea, I think she's very good in the Rebecca Miller movie. In a deep supporting role, but I think is really good in it. I never saw Destination Wedding. So I like Destination Wedding a lot.

I heard it was okay. Destination Wedding is a two-hander rom-com with her and Keanu, who are famously very close and have worked together many times. And that's a nice movie. That's the only other movie she's been the lead in, I feel like. And obviously the other thing that happens during this is Stranger Things happens and makes her really big for a new generation, but kind of sets the model of what the current Winona is,

which is this whole like, I don't know what... It's that and it's the gif of her going... Doing math on stage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, and it's just like... She's really good in the plot against America. The David Simon miniseries adaptation of the Philip Roth. Do you know what she was really good in?

What? Show me a hero. She was really good in that too. Sort of a very much a supporting role, but really like a emotional force. But it's been a lot of this, of like someone comes and brings her in and she knocks out four scenes and you're like, she's doing this kind of fragile woman

on a brink thing, but she's good at it. What I liked about this is I felt like this was the most holistically I had seen someone write to her current state, just what her energy is these days of like, and I think it's what they're trying to get at with the prescription drug thing, of like, Lydia wouldn't grow up normal. Yeah, sure. Yes. drug thing of like, Lydia wouldn't grow up normal. Yeah, sure. Yes. But it just didn't feel like there was quite enough there.

I agree. But I almost think she's trying to actually play the weight of this character and not just do the same thing again. But they don't really have the material for her. They don't really just give her a right. It's just so much of the movie is everyone basically saying to her like, shouldn't you be more upset?

And she's kind of like, yeah, whatever. And she only really gets upset when Beetlejuice is invoked. But the things with her, you don't even like Roy, and she's like, he likes me, who cares? But she really does a like, why not to? She's checked out! And sure, the point of her character, she's checked out because she sold out and stuff, okay.

I guess that makes sense. Yeah. Still got a crush on her. She's gorgeous. I love her. I love Winona. I love Winona. Winona forever.

Winona forever. Yeah. I have a huge announcement. Please. Bigger than David's announcement? You mean after her number two? I have tri huge announcement. Please. Bigger than David's announcement? You mean of juror number two? I have triplets. No.

I just received a text from Geffen Records. And this is a real, this is not a scam. You are looking for a job, right? Can I send you more details? Should I say yeah? What is this? What are you talking about? Literally, I just received.

From Geffen Records? You know David Geffen produced. I think that's a scam Ben. The Beetlejuice movie. No, this is real. Yes, of course there's the Geffen Logan in front of this movie. I'm saying this to Ben,

it feels like an odd coincidence this is happening during the Beetlejuice episode. Well that's why I'm bringing it up because it must be meant to be. Do you know what else was a Geffen Records release? What? Hooray for boobies. And look at that.

Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe He's a lot going on guys. Trying to do career retrospectives. And they were like, I guess we had a fun time. Maybe it wasn't their best episode, but I guess we had a fun time. They're all kind of tired. They haven't recorded in a while. There's a lot going on, guys. Hey, I'm thinking, I got like a hook. I've been doing these lyrics about, what are they about? Eh, it's just like, we should fuck like the animals

in the Discovery Channel. Okay, let's do it like six months later. The richest they've ever been. People keep asking me, like, how are you doing? And I'm like... They weren't sitting down being like, this is going to be it. Like the Discovery Channel. No, but they hit on something really primal and powerful and true.

Clean and rad and powerful, as Jonah Hill would say. People have been asking me how I've been doing. And I've been like, I'm like pretty I'm pretty exhausted and stressed out. And they're like, why? And I'm like, David had twins and I'm sort of... And I do keep earnestly... You haven't even had to record an episode in six weeks. I earnestly keep offering it up to people.

Not as... I'm not trying to pass the buck. And they're like, how is he doing? Right. And I'm like, I think it's okay, but it's hard to know. And that's really been weighing on me. And then they'll go like, how are you doing? And I'm like, I haven it's okay, but it's hard to know, and that's really been weighing on me. And then they'll go like, how are you doing? And I'm like, I haven't really thought about that actually. Been thinking a lot about David and the twins. How David's trapped.

It's very hard. They're just, they were preemies. One of them isn't sleeping very well. They'll get bigger. I want waffles. They're so cute. They're cute little guys. You've been talking about how you're,

the smaller one who doesn't sleep well and poops a lot and is kind of temperamental. That's the Griffin. And I'm relating really hard. Yeah. This sounds like a great job. You guys are literally... I was gonna also... Like, the two of you, Ben and Griffin, were recording this episode, are about to go on a wonderful vacation apiece, right?

Euro trippy. Yeah, you're both Euro tripping. Not together, but in parallel. And we might cross paths. Maybe you will. It's sort of like the Dolores and both Jackson plot lines. So we're not really gonna record again until like early October because we have to fucking watch Joker folly a do.

I'm glad we're doing it. But hey, let's make the announcement. Yeah, let's fucking announce it. We're also watching Good Riches It's Michael Keaton season. We're worried that Folly-a-duh might not make for an entirely compelling episode. So we're trying to recreate the You Want Command magic with an episode that I want to call Goodrich Folly-a-duh. Have I been told that that doesn't make sense? Yes.

Is there a better pitch? No. I'm just putting it in. It's fine. That could be the title. It'll be fun. It's a remote position, 30 to 60 minutes per day. Who is texting?

Salary, 100 to 600 dollars. Who is texting? Who is sending this? 333-555. Of course. Cindy Geffen? She didn't mention her last name. Should we play the box office game?

Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. So, Beetlejuice opened to number one. Yep. On, this is September 6th, 2024, yeah. I forgot about that. So, Beetlejuice opened to number one. Yep. This is September 6th, 2024, Griffin. What had previously, for many years, decades, been seen as a bit of a dumping ground, and then IT had this huge opening weekend,

and now it's become this hot spot where it's like, August tails off, and then the first week of September is prime real estate again. It's true. Labor Day weekend, essentially. Had the second biggest September of all time only behind the first eight. Although I guess it's actually the week after Labor Day weekend. Labor Day remains one of the worst weekends.

Yeah, nobody does that one because everyone's on vacation or whatever. Okay. Yes, it opened to $111 million. I was kind of stunned. Like I did not see this movie opening. I thought it would do fine. I called it. Yeah, I wasn't like against it or whatever. I was just like, oh damn. I thought it would do fine. I called it. Yeah, I wasn't like against it

I was just like oh damn. Yeah, okay, but huge Added to the stat list my favorite stat of sequels that outgrossed the original in their opening weekend Yes now I think along with Austin Powers the spider shag me pitch perfect to might be another one It's always one other one we forget I mean obviously when a sequel is coming three decades later the stack gets fudgier when you're just like, well, unadjusted for inflation. Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice is open. Great Warner Brothers seemingly did their good job pushing it, doing brand tie ins, getting Jen Ortega to tick tock about it.

It felt like they followed the Barbie playbook. And I saw a deadline drop that this actually had twice as much money behind it and twice as many brand partners. but they were just like, yeah. And I think much like Barbie, it was the same thing of just like, people have a strong emotional attachment to this iconography. If it's all over their feeds,

they're not gonna resent it. They like these actors. They like the stripes and the spirals and the sand worms. You can buy your Catherine O'Hara pineapple flavored Fanta. Number two at the box office, Griffin. Fanta did a complete comprehensive tie-in with the movie Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. What?

And their different flavors are represented by different characters on the cans. And I believe the pineapple flavor is now Catherine O'Hara. Correct. Delia is Catherine O'Hara. Astrid, General Tegas character, is orange. So just regular Fanta. Lydia is strawberry. And Beetlejuice is like demon blood flavor or something.

Calm. It's limited edition Fanta haunted. I gotta drink this shit. Haunted apple. Weirdly, Fanta lemon just still doesn't exist in this country. It's so weird. Fanta lemon rocks. It's available all through Europe. When you're in Europe, get yourself a Fanta lemon just still doesn't exist in this country. It's so weird. It's in Fanta lemon rocks It's available all through Europe when you're in Europe get yourself a Fanta lemon, you know that means sadly It sounds like that's the Jeffrey Jones Exists not available

off the shelves Number two at the box office Griffin. Okay number two at the box office is still Motion picture called Deadpool and Wolfram Deadpool and percentine. Marie, did you see it? No. A movie that I have to, I have to begrudgingly admit is more functional than Deadpool, than Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, and yet it drove me so much crazier. It wore me the fuck down. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I suppose you're right that it's more functional, but right now, I mean, that movie's

pretty annoying. I also think that movie's not functional. I'm just saying more functional. You know when you hesitated about whether or not to reveal the crash of Pipe Coast through a window? Where you were like, should I give this text to our listeners that can be thrown back in my face? I thought this while watching Deadpool and Wolverine. And I've been holding back on saying this publicly, and I feel like I need to say it even though I do think it will come back to haunt me. But halfway through watching Deadpool and Wolverine, I thought to myself,

this is not a joke, this was a genuine thought. What? Is this what it feels like to have a conversation with me? And I was like, that's maybe the most critical... I think you're being a little hard on yourself. Griffin, that's so horrible. It was a moment of darkness, but I was watching and I was like, God, I feel so exhausted.

And I was like, is this what it feels like? No. Just a lot of references being thrown out and a lot of attempts at jokes. And you're like, I guess it's good-natured enough, whatever. Well, for one, to be clear, the movie is enormously successful. People love it. As am I. Come on.

Exactly. So it's a good thing. Ghosts at the most over here. No, still don't have it. Uh, that's a bad. Okay No, that's not true. I would say the Deadpool Wolverine is is right It's the bad version of what you're talking about. Well, I guess it was maybe the meanest thing I could think about the movie though Mean things say about yourself. Okay, then both Number three it the box. I thought it was going to be funny. I thought people were going to like it.

I'm genuinely worried about you. He's doing good. Alright, number three hit the box. I've been using that as an excuse too. It even matters less to me. We're all going to die from this for a decade. When you... Whatever. Number three hit the box. David, I haven't been using as excuse. No you're a good boy. You know you put a lot on your plate

Yeah, all right. No, I haven't been sleeping well. You know just cuz David hasn't been sleeping well, and it's been getting to me number three at the box office It's a biopic. Mm-hmm the film I'm forgetting that it's number three at the box office and it's doing pretty well. It's done okay for a movie that is clearly dog shit. It's made $18 million.

It's a movie called Reagan. I mean, what better sign, sorry to dis President Ronald Reagan, of the fucking bankruptcy of the Reagan era that like this clip I see passing around, where it's like the climax of the movie is him giving the tear down this wall speech. It's like, and then going like, is he gonna do it? He's not gonna do it. I'm like, that's it? That's what he's fucking got?

Is tear down this wall? That he said tear down the Berlin Wall 45 years after it was built? What a goddamn profile encourage from that asshole. And then all the guys watching it on TV, like, yeah! Oh! We had the guts! And then like Nancy Reagan's like, Ronnie, yes!

I can't argue that Reagan is a great film. It has fundamental script issues. Have you seen Reagan? But I feel like Sean McNamara's having fun again. It feels like he's reconnecting with some of his creative energy. The director of Baby Geniuses? Yeah, he's getting back to the earlier kind of style that we all loved. Only director of Baby Geniuses? Yeah, he's getting back to the earlier kind of style

that we all loved. Only the director of Baby Geniuses would have the genius mind to cast Scott Stapp as... Marie, Marie. Baby Geniuses, too, Superbabies. He didn't direct the first. Oh, I'm so sorry, but that one's even more twisted. Yeah, what else did he direct?

Oh, the babies are super. The Bratz movie? Soul Surfer? What's the big one I'm forgetting? Did he do the Food Fight movie? Casper, a spirited beginning. Oh no. And he's reconnecting with that. Number four at the box office is a movie I really hope to see in theaters before it leaves theaters.

This is the big... David, Reagan was number three. We just covered that. The big having kids slightly early, so you know, put this one off my dock. No, I made the Reagan joke. Obviously the movie David's talking about is, it ends with us. No, that's number five at the box office,

and I have no interest in seeing whatever the hell that is. Although I'm happy it made a lot of movie because I want like different kinds of movies to make money at the box office, but it seems pretty cursed, that movie. Yeah, no thank you. I'm good. Yeah No, come on. What's the movie? You want to see it and you haven't seen it yet

Is it blink twice? No, I don't really care about that. I'll watch that on fucking Amazon. I like it. Okay. Yeah here. It's okay This one you want to see it was an August release from what distributor? 20th Century Fox. Oh, Alien Romulus. I also thought it was okay. Any other hot takes on Alien Romulus from the Blank Check crew? It looks great. Yeah, well, that's his thing.

Yeah, I don't know. Did you see it? No. Number six of the box office is something called The Forge. I assume that's some faith-based movie or something. I think so. Number seven, Twisters office, something called The Forge. I assume that's some faith-based movie or something. I think so. Okay. Number seven, Twisters. Enjoyed that. Yeah, fun time.

Good movie. You know, I saw they re-released, they brought Twisters back in 40X for one week. And then they also that week brought the original Twister back and alternate showings of that in 40X. And it was the best Applicational 40x I've ever seen and the audience applauded at the end and that movie is so simple you watch it and you're like, oh right these blockbusters used to be

Uncomplicated guy wants divorce papers signed they try not to get sucked into a twister and the thing just hits and they kiss at The end and everyone applauds and they're just like that's just simple you just did it number eight is blink twice which I guess I should check out did you see wing twice no you're kind of like number nine is just big up with me for didn't see it so far I haven't missed much no three times number ten is that movie better run through the a 24 horror with Brandi Norwood, that got very bad reviews. Yes, Catherine Houghton. Very odd looking film.

I mean, we're done, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. It's truly like a three-star fine experience. I did like that Tim Burton did practical stuff, and I hope he does another interesting movie, and I think Keaton's great in it, and it's fine. Nice to see the people. And I had a fine time and I'm glad it's doing well. Yeah. I wish it no ill.

Same. Sometimes there is a movie that is a big hit and you and I both say, this nothing good can come of this. This is a net negative for society. I think Alice in Wonderland was one of those where you're like, this is bad. This is culturally bad for this movie to do this well. It is encouraging all the wrong things. I think what's kind of interesting

about the legacy sequel thing, which has really replaced the build and overarching franchise that can run forever thing, is that we're pretty close to hitting the bottom of the bucket. Yeah, we're almost done. Like we're gonna be like, you know, crawl origins or whatever.

And I'm just like, yeah, you're out, you're done. Because by its very nature, the thing has to be we didn't sequelize this to death at the time. Right, it has to be something that basically was a flop. It's fracking. It's like this has been untapped. That is a good call, right? We're blowing up the tops of mountains

Just right there's anything in there And it's like ones where the main actors are still alive and have some cultural relevancy And there's something to say and they were popular at the time. They're still popular now It's like this does feel like kind of the one of the last ones that even theoretically has some power So I don't know I think we're finally ready for the Alf film. And I'm gonna ask a question. What would Alf be like through the twisted lens of Tim Burton? Tim Burton's riding high off a Beelzebub.

What if he got his twisted fingers? He put Alf in a pinstripe suit. Should we buy Jonathan Rosenbaum's film collection for $20,000? Yeah, 20 people have sent that to me. We've got so much space in this room. Thank you all for listening. So many empty shelves. Wait, wait, wait.

I'd just like to say my thoughts on, final thoughts on Beetlejuice. Oh, good. Okay. We can actually end this episode strong. Um, I give it a smile. This is Ben's new thing. Also, um, this text message I've been going... I was like, are you about to read a new bit?

The requirements are responsible, 23 to 7 years old, must be a US citizen or visa holder. I texted back, there's one problem. I'm not responsible. And what did they say? That's where the thread went cold. What? Weird. Once again, this is like an unknown number text to do this. Unknown.

Wow. Wow. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Next week, we are back to David Lynch. That's right. I guess next week's episode will be, of course, our episode on the film Blue Velvet with Jamie Loftus, our guest there.

So that's exciting and fun. Fun episode on a pretty important movie. Yeah, pretty fucking important. And over on the Patreon, we've got an episode on Ouija. Oh, great. Coming up. Pretty fucking important. And what if Tim Burton had wrapped

his twisted fingers around Ouija? Can you just even imagine what that would have been like? Would have been better. Let me tell you that. Spoiler alert for that episode. Yeah, we don't like it. Fucking this felt doll you just gave me directing would have done a better job. Sorry. Sorry to that guy.

My friend that's a plush dangler, put some respect on its name. Everyone feels really exhausted. Hey, AJ, thanks for being here. He's giving a thumbs up. Who? What? This game feels very sloppy, that only one person can see him, but it keeps switching who the one person is. I've stuck to it the whole time. Wait, what the fuck?

Okay. Thank you to AJ McCann for being our production coordinator, helping to edit the show. Thank you to Marie Barty and Ben Hosley for being my favorite people. Oh, you hear that, David? You hear that? Thank you to David Sims for being Shrek. Being complicated, having layers like an onion. Thanks to Bebop and Rocksteady for being on the planet.

We love that. Shout out to Bebop, Rocksteady. Thank you to Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song. Pat Reynolds, Joe Bowen for hard work. Man, the energy in this room has really gotten deadly. Thank you to J.J. Birch for taking it sleazy for a theme song. Pat Reynolds, Joe Bowen for hard work. Man, the energy in this room has really gotten deadly. Thank you to JJ Birch for taking it sleazy for a week. Sorry, I'm just, like, reading this text message. Let's wrap up. Let's wrap up.

We did all the other pugs, right? Yeah, we did all the other pugs. And as always, in honor of next week's guest, Jamie Loftus, I must resubmit the immortal question. Does he cum wet scabs or dry scabs? Does Beetleju he cum wet scabs or dry scabs? Does Beetlejuice cum wet scabs or dry scabs? I also think it's dry scabs. Well, even our wet scabs. It's a dry scab.

I can explain to you what wet scabs are off mic. Goodbye. Bye.