Blank Check with Griffin & David - Gigli with Jen D'Angelo

Episode Date: July 14, 2024

The first "G" in "Gigli" is pronounced like the "J" in “Jacques,” the second “G” is silent. Rhymes with "really." Now that that’s out of the way - we conclude our Martin Brest series with the turkey of all turkeys. The Bennifer original sin, the project that should have gotten Justin Bartha put in prison. That’s right, folks. We’re talking about one of the canonical “Worst Movies Ever Made” - 2003’s GIGLI. Screenwriter Jen D’Angelo joins us to talk about this fascinating cultural object, and makes a case that Ben Affleck is “good in this movie, actually.” Griffin and David disagree. We’re going to Baywatch! Read the Variety Article referenced in the episode Watch Martin Brest’s First Interview in 20 Years  Follow Jen on Instagram This episode is sponsored by: Bombas (bombas.com/check CODE: CHECK) MUBI (mubi.com/blankcheck) Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! 

Blackjack with Griffin and David Blackjack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blackjack That's why these lesbians are always going out and buying, spending all their dough on like, you know, sexual appliances and erotic monkey wrenches and shit, trying to compensate for what they don't have. The podcast. I was like watching the movie last night and earmarking potential quotes, and any time

a line put a spotlight around penis or pussy, which I was like that's going on the option pile. What if I try to start like a sort of Frank T.J. Mackey-esque sort of, you know, cultive personality podcast lifestyle brand supplements where I'm just using G. Lee lines like G. Lee rants about heterosexuality Well, here's what I would say is the people don't realize it for a while then someone starts googling for like wait He's just he's just doing Larry Gilly David. This is what I'd say as a counterpoint There is no place nowhere that has been the object of more ambitions more battles than the sweet sacred mystery between a women's legs

That I am proud to call my podcast I'm just saying there's something brazen about it. I think if I started saying this in the right tone of voice on a podcast, I would become a low level kind of pyramid scheme guy. And what I say in response to that is when my podcast sneezes, I say, God bless you. God bless you, podcast. I thought you might do it, but then would fear doing the voice. You see, the workaround I did here

was the only voice I did is the one I'm allowed to do, and then I said the other two lines in my own voice. I wanna be clear that anyone's allowed to do. We're all allowed to do it. To do our regular voice. Let's make it clear, people are worried. Comedy is being banned. Jerry Seinfeld is under attack.

He can't say anything. He can't make his $ million dollars streaming movies in peace Anyone cost a hundred million dollars. I guarantee you unfrosted. I I want to believe it's definitely It it's expensive looking it is expensive looking it has production design big Animated character that's true a ravi ravioli. This is a real movie. Unfrozen. We were talking about this before and you thought I was describing a Doughboy's bit

rather than the subject of a Doughboy's episode. It exists. I also think a lot, guys. Several of those actors must have had stupid, big, upfront streaming residual buyout. That is true. I need to know how much Hugh Grant got paid. Jerry probably got $30 million for that movie. That is true. Like, right. I need to know how much Hugh Grant got paid. Jerry probably got 30 million dollars for that movie.

That's true. If we're thinking through this as like director, writer, star, producer. Melissa McCarthy. Melissa McCarthy probably gets like 15 points. Let's say 15. It's not even she's not even like above the title. Well, that's what a big title. Got to just have Jerry on there. My point I want to make is that anyone is allowed to do a Larry G.

Liam impression. I take it back. She is above the title. Thank you. Along with Jim Gaffigan and Hugh and Amy Schumer. And Pop-Tart. And Pop-Tart Ravioli. It says a Pop-Tart.

Right. With Ravioli, Baby has himself. Yeah. It's weird that it's called Unfrosted when Frosting plays no role in the film. Correct, it's a terrible title on an otherwise perfect film. Just like G. Lee. Yeah.

That is obviously there's no saving this one. Like if you're a studio executive being shown G. Lee, right, you're not like, I know how to get this through, but I definitely would be like, can it not be called G. Lee? Can we call're not like, I know how to get this through, but I definitely would be like, can it not be called G. Lee? Can we call it something else? That's the first change.

Yeah, can we just call it anything else? The whole time I really was so baffled where I just was like, if the whole bit is that when you look at how his name is spelled, you have no idea how to pronounce it. Yes. Then you're gonna make out the title. So let's have that be the title.

Jen, I sent to you late last night, I thought you're an accomplished screenwriter, you're a student out the title. Jen, I sent to you late last night. I thought you're an accomplished screenwriter. You're a student of the cinematic art form. I regretted not thinking to send this to you earlier, but I went, oh, if it's not too late, let me pass this into Jen's inbox. A listener, like a year ago, saying, I know you guys threaten to do Martin Brest a lot.

If you ever come around to it, send me a Google Drive folder, Had Hotorrows had hot dogs for go-gam which came into play when we did our patreon series on an episode on those two movies and a 2001 a March 2001 dated draft of G Lee Glee so March 2001 sir. Okay, but not too long before it went into production. It goes into production. Well, it's a pre-9-11 draft, as I said to Jen in the email,

which is very important. I was going to say, I did... There's a national innocence to the graph. Yes. I read the... I didn't finish it. It's 144 pages long. Sure. It's very long.

It's very long. But I learned a lot and also got a lot of questions. It begged a lot of questions. Uh, it begged a lot of questions, but one of them was that you described it as a pre 9 11. You thought there was going to be a moment where that came into play. The breast was like, now we have to take out the whole terrorist. Gilly hijacking the plane just isn't going to work. It's like Toby McGuire, like being like in between the twin towers. Like there's like something where G. Lee just like has to go to the World Trade Center. Hey, I gotta go! Look! You gotta go to New York! My favorite spot! The World Trade Center's got my favorite pizza! Before I introduce this

podcast properly, I just want to say title page G. Lee by Martin Brest, March 23rd, 2001. And then the second page on this 144 page script is blank other than just two lines of text. Note the first G in G-ly is pronounced like the J in Jacques. The second G is silent, rhymes with really. And then the script starts on the next page. If you have taken the time to write that out, you've maybe already lost the battle. And the craziest thing is the line, like the first line in the movie. When he explains it. When he explains it, that's not in the script.

No, it's so clear that someone said to him, hey. Someone's rubbing their temples, please, just yeah, the thing you said rhymes with really. The thing you put down for the reader, someone in the movie needs to say this. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmography. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers are given a series of blank checks

to make whatever crazy passion projects they want and sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Jeely. Cannot deny. Bounce all. I mean, this isn't Mecho Black where you're like, oh, underperformed. This is a Black hat. This is a Black hat situation. Even beyond that, I just feel like we've been filling in some of the Mount Rushmore of the shorthand bombs. Ishtar, Waterworld, G. Lee, these are like the...

Something Billy Crystal can say on an Oscar stage to have, and everyone will know it means a movie that did badly. Yeah. Right? Right. Right, like even like the viewer in the heartland will know Gilly just means a bad movie. Jay Leno will go on and on about it for months.

That guy's pretty incisive. I mean, that guy really, really has just like a scalpel-like on you know industry comedy I take machine Instant comedy punchline for decades yes It's also like it's very I find it very sweet when a movie is so bad that no one has any qualms about yeah talking publicly about how bad it is because You're not necessarily worried that you're gonna hurt someone's feelings because it's just like they know like Madame Webb is like that

And I think it was really good for all of us. Madame Webb was incredible for the culture I think it's one of the better things that's happened. Yes I mean, you know who agrees with what you just said Martin Bress the film recovering in a mini-series the filmmaker recovering in this mini-series that ends sadly ends today with this episode this mini-series that ends, sadly. Ends today. With this episode. Wow, just like his career. Sorry, but this is it.

Poverly Hills cast, he is so broken by this movie, he refuses to refer to it by name. The G-movie is what he calls it. Right, he calls it the G-movie, which is, I think, disingenuous because this film is not rated G. No. It has way too much Cunnilingus talk to be rated G.

And penis sneezing. And penis sneezing, luckily unseen penis sneezing. Thank God. Definitely implied though. Although, let's say Bartha I think probably would have played that scene with dignity and grace. That didn't ruin his career is actually offensive to me. Yes.

No offense to Justin Bartha, who I think I've actually been mean about a lot on this podcast. Well, the first National Treasure Key is the worst look anyone's ever had in any movie, Yes. No offense to Justin Bartholomew, who I think I've actually been mean about a lot on this podcast. Well, the first National Treasure Key is the worst look anyone's ever had in any movie, which you spent some time... Wow. I think he looks like a real dork in that movie. Well, of course. Yes.

I know he's playing a dork. A little dink. He's a little dink. You're not wrong that he is a little dink. They made him look normal in Book of Secrets. They did. I would argue... Almost like they heard me yelling from the future.

Funny in both of them. He's fine. Yeah, he is. In a time where he really needed that, like when National Treasure is coming out a year after Zhili and people are like, I'm sorry, the comic relief in the movie is the cognitively disabled kid from Zhili. Are you guys trying to tank this? And everyone's like, you know what? He's just funny enough. I mean, luckily, no one saw G. Lee. Yes, that was that was your that saved him. That saved him. Look, this is Poverly Hills cast, which we're concluding today with G. Lee, the 2003 calamity and today joining us on the show.

One of Hollywood's hottest screenwriters. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Hocus Pocus too. Wow. Quizriters. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Hocus Pocus 2. Wow. Quiz Lady. Yeah. There was a third credit you had last year that I'm forgetting, right?

Didn't you have three movies in one year? Totally Killer. Totally Killer. Jen D'Angelo's here. Hey, Jen. Hey, I'm so glad to be here talking to G. Lee. Oh, you crazy person. Here's the thing I want to throw out right off the bat,

off of what you're saying. Do people even know he was the guy in Glee I think most people who laugh at Glee jokes who make Glee jokes who still think of Glee as a shorthand Don't know what Glee is actually about Truly we several years ago on this podcast did a thing called the spies in disguise challenge where we asked listeners of this show to show Spouses family members close friends who did not know the plot of Spies in Disguise the trailer, pause it at the halfway mark and go, what do you think the twist is?

What will happen now? I ask our listeners to now engage in the G. Lee challenge, which is go to close people in your life and go, G. Lee, have you seen it? No, you know what it is? Yes, what do you think G. Lee is about? And I think 99% of people will just go, it's some weird romantic comedy with Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez.

Maybe they know Mob. They might know Mob. Right. I don't think most people know that she is a self-identified lesbian. I think... And they are both babysitting a developmentally disabled... They don't know that....younger brotherally disabled younger brother of a federal prosecutor who they're holding hostage as leverage against an FBI investigation. A mob case.

I don't think people know. Nobody knows that part. I think some people might sort of know the lesbian part because it's turkey time gobble gobble. This is what I'm interested in. The layers of the rock I'm interested in. The layers. The layers of the rock. I'm interested in because I'm like, yes, it's that's the order.

Some people know, yes, the sexuality. Yeah, the Sultan of Slick. Yeah, like a monologue, I feel like. I just think most people don't know that Barth is a part of it. And it is the movie. It's the whole movie. It's the whole fucking movie. I had a very fun experience of watching this

with my husband who is like a huge movie guy. Like that's all we do. And he had never seen G. Lee which shocked me to my core cause he loves, we both love watching like, you know, movies that are so bad, they're good. Sure. But I wouldn't even say that this qualifies as that honestly, but you know,

it's an iconically bad movie. I'm certain he would have seen it. We were watching it together and he as the live commentary of Ben Affleck walking into the assisted living facility, Lucas was just like, Oh, no, is someone going to be playing a mentally disabled person? Why is he here? Oh, my God. It's Justin Barth that like it was just the entire narration leading up to the scene of just the horrible reality unfolding.

And then dropping to him like, hey, and this is the rest of the movie for here on out. Yes, this is the only discernible sort of like stab at a plot. It's the plot, it's the conflict. Almost every scene is the three of them together. It's Rain Man in LA, like in an LA apartment. Right. It's so crazy. It's Rain Man plus Chasing Amy.

Yeah. Is what this movie is set within the mob, right? Yeah, Rain Man plus Chasing Amy plus like Priszi's Honor or whatever. Yeah, you know, something like that. Like a light mob dramedy. I mean, you know the studio people were like, it's midnight run.

Yeah. But it's not. But no one runs anywhere. But no one runs anywhere. It's set in one shitty apartment. That's what's wild about it. Intentionally shitty. What's wild about it is you go,

you understand how on paper studios could be licking their lips and going, Martin Brest is over the Meet Joe Black thing.. Right he wants to make a zippy rom-com about a mobster and a hit woman. Crime! He's got Ben Affleck and JLo. Cool! He's made two of the most profitable movies in this exact lane. Pacino and Walken are agreeing to do like one scene performances. Extended cameos. Yeah. Uh, Justin Bartha, who's that? Don't worry about it, look, G-League. This is the problem though, you're like on paper, yes, absolutely. I get why people are fighting over this.

I get why stars are flipping in and out of the casting of this. But then if you actually look at what he's doing, you go, hey, Marty, let's maybe rethink some of these elements. I also, I'm certain you guys must have read his, like, interview from last year in Variety, where he talked about his career. He finally sort of talked about it around. The quote, I screenshotted it.

Can I read it? Please. It really, I've been thinking about it since I read it. Uh, because the way that he talks about what this movie, like, what he thought it was going to be, and then what it became. Okay, so this is how he describes Healy. Extensive disagreements between the studio and myself

got to the point where post-production was shut down for eight months while we battled it out. In the end, I was left with two choices, quit or be complicit in the mangling of the movie. To my eternal regret, I didn't quit, so I bear responsibility for a ghastly cadaver of a movie. Once key scenes were cut, it became like a joke with its punchline removed. Endless contortions could never create the illusion that what remained was intended. Extensive reshooting and re-editing turned character scenes, story, and tone upside down in the futile attempt to make the

increasing mess resemble a movie. For the first time in my career, I had become a true collaborator, not in the benign creative sense, but rather that of one who, in violation of their true allegiances, cooperates with occupying forces, and for that kind of compromise, self-castigations far exceed any possible public ones. He's an articulate person. Yes.

I think about that constantly now. It's so sad and profound, but I have to say, after reading the original script, I'm a little bit like, what are you talking about? Exactly. I was reading this being like, there is a Damon Affleck 2020 long Zoom interview that I'm obsessed with, that I cite all the time on episodes. It has nothing to do with because it's like one of the best two people in the industry kind of like unwinding, looking back on decades of their career talks. Oh, my God. And Affleck is so candid talking about the ups and downs of his career. I've never candid in interviews. I don't know what you're talking about.

It's the most lucidly sort of sanely, focussily candid I've ever heard. He can be really wonderful talking about it. It's an incredible interview. But he talks about how like he and Damon idolized Martin Brest. Oh, yeah. And how when they won the Good Will Hunting Oscar and their careers sort of go on two different tracks and Damon's getting like pulled into like top-of-the-line prestige working for the best directors and Affleck is doing like paycheck blockbuster schlock in the public eyes, right? And for a while there, Affleck was the much more bankable movie star,

but didn't have any credibility. And Damon was like all credibility, and then Bourne flips them and Affleck tanks and the whole thing's kind of, we know the narrative, right? And he talks about like, people had this notion of me that I was choosing not to do the prestige things. And Affleck's like, none of those directors wanted me. They wanted you, they didn't want me.

I took the movies that I was offered. That was the decision Hollywood was making. He was not considered a quote unquote good actor. Damon completely was. He'd done things like Curred Under Fire, Good Will Hunting, you know, Towns Mr. Ripley where it's like, oh, he's got range. Affleck was a pretty boy.

He was like hunky. He's a man a idol. I've been sitting on a hot take that I'm Embarrassed and scared to say but I feel like this is the time I think that Afrik is good in this movie. I Mean that is And can you turn on the AC Ben, can you turn on the AC? We gotta cool this room down. I think it's gonna get really hot. Sam wasn't kidding when she said hot. Look, we're putting the world's biggest pin in that.

My phone just gave me the... You know when your phone overheats and it's like will take me out of the sun? I just got an Amber alert. I really like Ben Affleck as an actor often. And I think the last ten years he's really figured his thing out. Totally. He's a great Bruce Wayne. He's been on fire for the last ten years he's really figured his thing out totally he's a great Bruce Wayne

Like that really is fire the last decade in my opinion I love we we've talked about his kind of like his princeling era right like your last duel your air Where he's sort of playing the supporting role. He's incredible in the last duel. He's incredible incredible in the last Incredible in a movie that's nothing. Gone Girl Tender Bar. Tender Bar is one of the great American films. Way back, feel like three really interesting movies of him using his persona, but also just being really lived in now.

Like you don't feel, I always felt effort from him in this era where you're like, he's trying so hard to show that he's not just a pretty boy, that he's not an idiot. And, that he's not an idiot. And that energy really works for Gilly. Yes. So back to this interview. The Gilly thing, before you go back

to your favorite interview of all time, the great moment in diplomacy that you remember so well, it's one of those things where it's kind of like, why is Renee Selweger bad at singing in Chicago? And people are like, the character's bad at singing. And I'm like, do I want to go that far though? Like just watch a movie with someone who can't sing well, but it's part of the character. And Gilly, it's like, yeah, he's kind of pretending to be a tough guy. He's not really one. So the, the effect of a bad performance is part

of the performance. And I'm like, like, it's just like kind of hoty, like hot-takey, no offense, Jen, where you're kind of like, yeah, okay, but it's a whole movie of watching someone give a bad performance. Is that a good performance? Right. Affleck talks about how breast-wanting him for this was one of the first times he'd been like, this is one of my favorite filmmakers who's asking for me, right? Versus what he was seeing happen to Damon. Yeah.

And he was like, I mean, you remember, Matt, like we just talked about Martin Brest all the time when we were like 20 and broke and living in an apartment together, we were obsessed with that guy. They both wanted scent of a woman in that era where no one could be Chris O'Donnell. Right. To play the kid right. A hundred percent.

So I think Dan, Affleck is just like, of course I'm gonna be in a Martin Bress movie. But also admits the thing never totally worked. And he's like, what ended up coming out was the worst version of it. Sure, right. But maybe there's not a great version of it. When Marty delivered his cut, it was neither fish nor fowl. And then they butchered it even further. I was so curious to read this fucking draft and be like, what was the thing he was trying to do that he didn't hit, but where I can at least understand what the idea was for this movie? And you read through it and it is astonishing

how much of the script is identical. Identical. I was like, this is like reading just a novelization of a movie. It sounds like you just read essentially a longer version of Sheely. Like, the film ends up around two hours, so it sounds like someone just read essentially a longer version of Sheely. The film ends up around two hours, so it sounds like someone at least prevailed on him to lose a little bit of this 150-page thing you're reading, right?

Uh, yes. There was an additional Christopher Walken scene that was cut. There was that, right? Or is that in the movie? No, there's just the one Walken scene, so yes. I mean, I was dying for another one after that fantastic scene, but... He shows up and has a second scene that is like... Again, I was like reading it and just was like, I'm so fascinated by it because...

All of G. Lee, like the entire script is just a lot of characters launching into these monologues. And I... Like these long monologues that are very circuitous. And then wind up at like, you know, some version of some sort of point. And that's like, you know, such a trope in writing. And I'm always just sort of like obsessed with trying to figure out like when they go wrong and when they go right. Because you have like on one end of the spectrum, you have like the cerulean blue monologue from Devil Wears Prada, which is so incredible. And on the other end of the spectrum, you have this cut scene from G. Lee where it's just Jacob Ellis, which for some reason in the script is all one word.

I wasn't sure if that's his last name or if that was some kind of joke, but that's the Christopher Walken character. His second scene is him just coming back and gives like a page long monologue about how he was so constipated. He thought he had cancer and then it, it switched and now he has constant diarrhea. So he has to carry a porta potty in his trunk. There was such an intentionality and craft to this dialogue and I don't understand what he thought. You read through the script and the changes are

so small that you're just like is there a tone that he thought would have made this movie work that either he didn't achieve or was fucked with in post but on paper reads like what it is. Exactly. He's sort of saying that in that quote you read, Jen, this sort of definite, right? Right. He's like, yeah, they're, they're fucking with the rhythm of it, the humor, they're cutting out of jokes early. I don't, where I'm just like, you are an obsessive compulsive,

mentally controlling filmmaker that works well early in your career. I don't think he's right about G. Lee, where it's like, yeah, no, if I had just had my process where I get everything just calibrated, it makes more sense. I don't think so. Also, you have to tell yourself stories sometimes. Yeah, you know what?

Tell yourself stories in order to live. What would I do if I'd made G. Lee? You know? How do you justify that thing? Some people pull the Clooney, Batman, Robin thing where they're just like on every interview They're like I want to make clear I know that movie shitty and I think I'm bad at it, right? You know where you just kind of like let me get out ahead of the scandal even all these years later Thing was he said multiple times like I feel like I saw it in multiple interviews that he mentioned that the studio

And I think Ben Affleck said this too that the studio made him make it a love story because to capitalize on their connection. But again, in that script, it's a love story. This wouldn't make any sense if it wasn't. What would it be then? Just they hang out. That's it. So the biggest difference just because you didn't get to the end of the script, he dies. He dies. I mean, the way it's written is very bizarre I feel like what like a decision to leave right? He gets like buried under the sand

There's a storm that like takes down the entire Baywatch shoot and G Lee. We really yes That's how I read it. I'm like rereading it right now to make sure I'm comprehending it, but it's written very bizarrely and sort of About it that I will read to to where he was kind of like it's kind of bizarrely and sort of poetically. Affleck has a quote about it that I will read to you too. Where he was kind of like, it's kind of a beautiful image. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they all die and J.Lo doesn't come back at the end. Like that's the biggest difference.

The final scene where she's like, come on, this was never going to be a real thing. And drives off and leaves them there at the beach. Was supposed to be the end of their arc. Then Brian goes onto the Baywatch set. Gilly smiles and watches approvingly as he fucking lays down the Mack on these women. And then they all die in sand. That was the ending. They all die.

Justin Barth dies too. Yeah, I hope so. I hope he does. It says clearly in the script that the entire set has disappeared. That everything is like washed away and been ripped away. So the quote's actually not from Affleck, it's from Adam Brody who auditioned for the Barth apart and thank god for him did not get it and ends up being on the OC this year anyway. Can you imagine how terrified you would be if you auditioned for it and you knew that that tape was

out there? Yeah right there's one tape of me. He said, I remember liking the script, I remember in the end, Affleck died in a way that still stays with me. It's like he's sitting on the beach, he's bleeding out, so maybe he's injured. I thought he got shot by Al Pacino. Right, so like there's a reason he's kind of accepting his fate, maybe. And the sand just comes up and buries him. It was a nice image that they did not use in the movie.

So like, I bet you Brody's like going to watch Gilly and he's like, at least that ending is going to be cool. And then he's like, what the fuck? Like, you know, anyone who like auditioned for the movie is like, where's the ending? Can I just read the way this is written? Sure. Okay. So it's the set. Brian's dancing loses in a dish and he is a static bikini girl digs a style and Brian digs hers. That's basically the end of what we see in the movie, right? Gili, as he dreamily watches, the thumping source music slowly begins to fade.

In its place, a transcendent beautiful piece of score starts to build. Way to call your shot, Marty. As it does, the wind starts to gently pick up. The set, everyone continues to dance to the source music we no longer hear. The set, the people have practically now all disappeared. Only the odd piece of set or equipment pokes through the surface but those two are about to go and then Zhili in voiceover says at the end of the day after all that is said

and done the only thing that you can really count on Zhili or more accurately where he was just a little blowing hair remains then that too is covered Zhili the only thing that's really for sure the set the tip of the very last hint that civilization was ever there finally disappears. Zhili, is that you just never fucking know. All that now remains is a beautiful deserted virgin beach, just as it was exist in a distant paradise fade out. It doesn't make any sense.

What? I don't understand. Is understand the end of the world. I don't know. That would be a taste. That'd be a twist. It's because the world ends. He doesn't frame it like a sandstorm in the distance. People running. It's like it's written very elusively. That's so crazy. But they shot some version of this. Because there's also a point in the script earlier that I couldn't remember if this was in the movie either. I'm almost certain it wasn't, but there's like a part very early on where he's walking down the street and then pauses and closes his eyes and then he's on a beach.

Yes, I think that's not in there. Yeah. So that was setting up. So there's something very meaningful about Gilly on a beach, I guess, that we just didn't know. Even if the movie was called Gilly on the beach would be better than just Gilly. Absolutely. But like, I detest Scent of a Woman. I understand exactly what he was trying to do. And you can argue he succeeded in doing a thing that I think sucks. This film is worse than Scent of a Woman.

This is my whole question going back watching this, is like, I get less angry watching this than Scent of a Woman. This is my whole question going back watching this is like I get less angry watching this than Scent of a Woman, but I cannot identify what he thought he was doing. You really cannot pin and I you know I like to do this anytime we cover Calamity on the podcast I like to try to fucking salvage what was the idea in their head? Right. What was the thing that went astray? Someone who has made good movies.

So you're like, right, like this person is not without skill, surely. And he, well, we can talk about it. I'm gonna read you from the dossier. But Jen, did you like G. Lee? I loved it. No, no, it was- Jen came in before Griff was here and was like,

and I love G. Lee. And I was like, wait, really? Wait, I'm not mad, but is that what you're gonna do? And you were like, no, no, no, no, no. And I was like, wait, really? Wait, I'm not mad, but is that what you're gonna do? And you were like, no, no, no, no, no. And I was like, okay, okay. When did you first see it? You'd seen it before. I've seen it before.

I saw it in high school. I remember I rented it. I forced my friends to rent it from Blockbuster for a sleepover, because I was like, it's so bad. I'm pretty sure this is what I did as well. Yeah. Famously bad. Famously bad, let's watch it. Like, I'm pretty sure this is what I did as well. Yeah. Right. And then famously bad. Famously bad. Let's goof on it.

Right. Yeah. And yeah, within like 30 minutes, 40 minutes, you're just sort of like, OK, well, I'm not enjoying this at all. And it's like not really anything. It's just kind of boring. I genuinely don't remember if I ever made it to the end. I don't think I finished it before watching it last night. It's also one of those movies that, like, as much as there was this gawking like oh my god

What a disaster thing Sony was so on guard about it that like the second it wasn't doing well They were like, yep, we're sorry. We're pulling it out of theaters. Like it was gone So quick it was gone within like a week it had a like 1.5 multiplier Like it was that it yes, it. It opens to three, I believe. It ends up at six. But beyond that, it was like, it opened in 2000 screens. It was in theaters for three weeks.

The next weekend, it was on like 70 screens. No, no, so no, it didn't. Everybody has two weeks. Theaters basically demand it of you. You cannot pull a movie after one week, especially back then. But I think even now, you book two weeks. So it is on 2200 screens. Sque think even now, you book two weeks. So it is on twenty two hundred screens, but two weeks.

And then in its third week, it is on seventy three screens. And those screens, it is gone. Those screens are probably people who didn't pick up the phone, like when Sony called being, is it Sony? Yeah. Yeah. Like being like, hey, can you send the Gili? We're not doing Gili anymore. So they just like did one more week. Those theaters were caught under the sand.

Yeah, they got sanded over. Just a little hair visible. It made $3.7 million in its opening weekend. It made $18,000 in its third weekend. Yes, that didn't do well. My favorite little tidbit that I saw was that Ben Affleck got paid 12 and a half million. JLo got paid 12 million and their combined salary was, yeah, like more than double or more than three times the the gross money.

Each one of them made twice as much as the movie made in total. Incredible. As a single person. And we'll get into this, too. But JLo was like flipped in very late. Very late. Which is the fascinating sort of like sliding doors of this movie. Because it was supposed to be Halle Berry? Correct. And X2 ran over schedule.

Sure. I mean, it's not like the movie is better or worse with her, but it probably is more, we'll talk about more under the radar. Right. Right. With her. Then it's just kind of forgotten. I just want to say this. We're recording this pretty close to when it came out. We we were happy to uh, you know To when g.ly wait for you. No, no, no, no, no, no, because we've been recording a lot of episodes like months in advance Yeah, this is coming out only a couple weeks after we've recorded it But it needs to be noted like a couple weeks ago

I get a bunch of texts that are like I hope you you haven't recorded your Gili episode yet, as the rumors about Affleck and JLo splitting up are like hitting a fever pitch. And then I just felt like, well I hope before we record, there's some sort of like settlement of this. And it feels like we're existing in this very bizarre state now, where like two months ago we would have been recording this episode being like, and the nice part is, of course, 20 years later, they got married and they're happy.

And now no one fucking knows the status of their relationship. I think it's broadly reported their relationship has ended. He's moved his belongings out of their home. You know, again, this is all People Magazine-esque, you know, a friend close to the yes, Ben tells us or whatever. But it makes the cultural narrative of this film even more fascinating. It does. But that to me is the Affleck thing where he like figures

his shit out. And the minute he does and has juice again, he's like, I should be Batman and married JLo again. Like he just like, he's like, let me plunge right back down. Let me try it all again. Let me get close to the sun. He was daredevil and he was dating JLo. And 20 years later, he's like, I should do both. I have to do them both. I got a few Batman and a JLo.

I gotta marry her. I'm like, cause I really do think he's such a good Bruce Wayne, but then the Batman, like the movies around him are so bad. Sorry. No, no, I, I agree with you firmly. So sorry, Zack Snyder. I know you listen. Yeah. Do you think Zack's going to come for your ass?

Like Snyder's like, yeah, Joe! He seems like a nice man. I have nothing against Bruce Wayne. Send some parademons after you. I've only heard the best things about him. I've heard his lovely. Yeah. But yeah, it's such a... Like, Ben Affleck is just such...

I root for him. He's just so sad. It's like he's just such a sad aura around him. I think it's just we just have to accept that that is the Ben Affleck experience, and he will never be totally happy for us. He will have his happy times and his sad times, and we're with him all the way, in all of them, I guess. Right? That's the...

We're just gonna ride the rollercoaster with Ben Affleck. I think so. Yeah. And we're just gonna accept that sometimes he just is really, really sad on the street, holding a big old Dunkin' Donuts iced coffee, and... With his large back tattoo that maybe he's altered, maybe not. The back tattoo is also very unfortunate. He's become this weird version of like an F. Scott Fitzgerald character.

Yes, yes. Some sort of modern. Human, though. That's why I'm saying that's why we're with him. Yeah. This beautiful man at the top of the mountain who has everything. And yet it's always just a little out of his grasp. He's always reaching a little bit further. Yeah. And he loves movies so much.

Loves them. He there's a I, of course, I'm obsessed with Project Greenlight. And there's a talking head moment that he had in season four. Was it the the very cursed season that I loved? That was the curse season. Was that the comeback HBO Max season? Yeah. Leisure class season. Right. Right. But like when they the curse season. Was that the comeback HBO Max season? Yeah, leisure class season. Right, right.

But like when they're having all the arguments over like, oh, can he shoot on film? Can he not shoot on film? There's a talking head with Ben Affleck where he's just like, I mean, the Godfather were shot on film. Porkies were shot on film. Need I say more?

And I just like, I love this so much. It's Ben Affleck in a nutshell where it's just like, he loves movies so much and he wants to like fight on behalf of the filmmaker. And yet his two examples are just like, A, digital didn't exist. And B, like those are just such funny. Yes, those are the two that he sort of-

Canadian showers just popped, you know, the grain on that white tile. And those bare shower heads. I'm trying to think of anything you could say about Porky's visually, apart from that it has TNA. Sure, the glory hole. Baby? Sweater weather is officially over. We have defeated the beast!

Except in the Blank Jack Studios, where it's always a comfortable 55 degrees But the wicked curse of sweater weather it's over wrong. I flipped the two words listen Sweaty weather has replaced it. Oh brother. That's true. It's hot out there. Yeah, and so I am breaking out the bombas Mm-hmm. I don't know about you Griffin yeah, but in the summertime, yeah, you don't. I'm wearing short pants, as they call them shorts. I wear long E's because I don't like to be looked at.

I don't like my flesh to be visible. But because of that, I prefer to wear a, obviously, a shorter Gen Z-style ankle or whatever sock, right? Well, isn't it, Gen Z's always wearing the short socks? Isn't this a stereotype? Cover it up. Socks going up to my thighs, pants going down to my toes.

It's all like a TikTok about it. Yeah, Ben's giving me a sort of casual thumbs up. Made with premium extra long staple cotton, Bombas socks are a key to feeling light on your feet all summer long. Breezy dress socks will support your arches on the dance floor at your friend's wedding, while compression socks will help achiness

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I'm wiggling my sock feet. Look at my socks. I kicked my shoes off. Will you see my little socks? Look at David's little socks. I went to Bombas. I was like, I need some short socks. I'm wiggling my sock feet. I kicked my shoes off. You see my little socks? See them? I went to Bombus. I was like, I need some short socks. I went and got them. Okay, that's what happens. The best thing about Bombus, of course, they're comfy. But also every time you buy a comfy Bombus item, they donate an equally comfy item to someone who really needs it.

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and use code check for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash check and use code check for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S dot com slash check and use code check at checkout. Bombas. From Midnight Run to Meet Joe Black. Martin Bress worked at Universal Pictures. Oh yeah. Mid Hits. By hits, I mean, he made two hit films.

Midnight Run and Scent of a Woman. Then he makes Meet Joe Black. Muted reception, disappointing box office combined with, as we mentioned, babe pig in the city's disappointing box office, Casey Silver, head of the studio, longtime friend, is turfed out. So Silver starts just becoming a producer, freelance, whatever you call it, right?

Does Hidalgo over at Disney. Sets up an Ethan Allen movie called Rebels at Walden Media that I think never was made. Okay. And sets up a little movie called Giggly-E at Revolution Studios. It's not a great run if the movie that never got made is far and away the most successful of the three.

Hidalgo was like quietly a financial calamity. I think the problem with Hidalgo, which made money, was that it was quite expensive. Because it was over a hundred million dollars. Yeah, yeah. Because that was Vigo's first post Lord of the Rings role. That was, is he an action adventure star? Can you just slot Vigo into any film with this energy and it will work?

So this film is set up at the Notorious Revolution Studios. Joe Roth's, you know, sort of insane, what do you, how do you want to describe it? Vanity Shingle slash mini studio. Yeah, it's a little over now. Like I don't know if we'll ever see this again because it feels like people wisely go like, I'm going to start an A24 or a neon instead. They know their lane or even an STX where they're like, Yeah, let's stay in a certain cap.

Right, let's make the movies at a lower budget level that no one else is making. But Revolution is very in line with DreamWorks of someone who had wild success in the studio system being like, I can start the sixth major studio. Martin Brest, according to press notes for this film, JJ had to really dig because as Jen noted he really doesn't like to talk about Gilly, but the press notes for Gilly he says, I've increasingly found myself pulled towards

a central character who comes off mean, angry, and unsympathetic and gradually another side is revealed. Which I can see with Midnight Run. I can see with Sense of a Woman. I actually can't see as much with Me, Joe Black, where everyone's actually kind of a good guy in that. Everyone's a good guy. Except for Death, I suppose. Sure. But obviously you can see it with G. Lee.

There's a video I highly recommend. I feel like I've referenced it in other episodes, but watched it finally in full in preparation for this. It's called Justin Barthes' G. Lee montage. Yeah, supercut fan camp. It's set to everything's gonna be all right by Naughty by Nature. No, there's this Irish kid named Daniel Fee who during the pandemic started interviewing directors and just sending cold emails and all these big directors agreed to speak to him. And Brest was like the first guy he reached out to. And I, in watching the video, realized JJ's been pulling a lot of quotes from this.

Well, with attribution. Because it's one of the few public, like, it's certainly his first video interview in 20 years. And this kid is, Irish kid with two deaf parents and like movies where they're bonding for. So it's like really sweet and he's really earnest and he really wants to be a filmmaker and he's like my dad's favorite movie is Midnight Run he reached out to him Martin Brest is like I believe in you but I don't do interviews and then this kid proceeds to get the Russo brothers and all these big people to sit down with him and Martin Brest circles back and he's like

I'll do the interview and he talks about that his activation point for Scent of a Woman, and very little is taken from the Italian film in his version, is just that movie has the setup of introducing you to the absolutely most miserable character you've ever seen, where you're like, this guy is so repellent and abhorrent, I cannot imagine watching him for the rest of this runtime, and how do you keep them engaged and slowly make you like a guy? It's very clear that that's like a real fixation of his. It's so fascinating to me.

So I had never seen Rain Man until sort of recently, like a couple years ago, and I was so fascinated by it because it's like it says so much about the culture that it's sort of... This was like an acceptable kind of like crowd pleaser, heartwarming, like huge movie. And it's like, and from the outside or, you know, intentionally it was like this asshole character has to learn

how to like, you know, have a real relationship with someone and like take care of someone and sort of like become a softer person. And the fact that it's like acceptable, it's considered within the acceptable realm of asshole to be screaming at a mentally ill person being like with developmental disability, just screaming at them being like, shut up, get over it. And then learning like, oh, they, you know, they are a real person and I have to

like work with them. Like, it's just so fascinating. And it's, it's crazy to see that in a movie that came out in 1988, I think Rain Man was. And then 2003, it's just like, it feels so ugly and bad and just like, and he has this basically continued for another decade. I mean, I feel like we're finally at the point where no one will do this ever again. Yeah. But even like Motherless Brooklyn,

a film that came out five years ago... That truly might be the last one. And that almost feels like it was grandfathered in from like 2000 studio development. But like that's a movie that feels very inspired by Rain Man. Like, you know, just like this, like, can I give this sort of whole performance of this, you know, disability that I'm kind of basically inventing? Like, obviously it's based on real things, but I'm kind of just making up this big acty

version of it, you know. And people are in the book. It is in the book. It is in the book, yeah. The book's about someone with Tourette Syndrome. The whole idea of like, Edward Norton reading the book and rubbing his hands together and being like, oh, there's a lot of shit to play here, right? When that used to be the metric

that a lot of people viewed acting by, of like, can you believe this transformation? They're doing all this shit, and they're bringing humanity to this type of person. That whole line of thinking that's really kind of ugly when you dig into it. It feels like the response to Motherless Brooklyn wasn't even how dare you. It was people being like, come on. Like it got such a shrug that it feels like everyone realized there is no gain from trying this

anymore. It felt very vain, I would say. But anyway, Zhili. Zhili, for let's not talk about Barthia, because he just loves the character Zhili. A guy who's stuck in time, not unstuck in time, stuck in time. His sensibility hails from another era, 20 or 30 years ago, which makes him kind of sad. His peers have moved on, gotten married, started families. Gilly's still at his two-bit job,

living alone in his dumpy apartment. He likes this fake tough guy that Gilly is. This is why he loves, you know, whatever, this story idea. Is that he's rooted in this sort of Gilly character that speaks to him so well. Is he a fake tough guy? Is he a tough guy who kind of can't keep it up anymore? Right, have the times left him behind or whatever. This is where I immediately start to disconnect of like, Marty, I love you. I do not understand what is innately appealing about the idea of this character.

Not at all. I said to a woman, I can get it. If you say to me, here's the idea, the guy go, I could see how I could lock into that. I'm blind. I'm horny. I can't stop juggling this grace. I want to die. I mean, I like the idea. Like, here's what I liked about the character of Gilly. Yeah, let's just say it again. G. Lee.

G. Lee. I'm like, okay, there's something interesting to me about, like, here's this tough guy, like, and he just beats people up all the time, and, you know, is like a criminal. But, you know, we think he's like so cool. And then we just sort of slowly realize, like, he's a loser and he has no friends, and like, he has to take care of his mom, and it he's like so cool. And then we just sort of slowly realize like, he's a loser and he has no friends

and like he has to take care of his mom and it's really sad for him. And he has like- No money, crappy place. And by take care of his mom, shoot her in her butt. Give her a shot. Yeah, yeah.

Give her, yeah, I assume insulin of some kind. Just like one time. Yeah, give her butt injections. And otherwise she seems totally fine. But then, like, what I butt up against is I'm like, I can see that being interesting to me. But then what happens? Well, sure.

But also, I'm like, the interesting version of that guy for me is 20 years older than this character. Like, if it was- Polly Walnuts. Or Affleck today, you know? Yes, he's a little young for whatever Brest is talking about. Right, because this whole vibe we're talking about, something about like he's out of time, it's moving past, he's losing everybody.

He's a little too fresh faced for that to be reading to me as anything other than just kind of being like irritable. That's true. And it's also like the guy that he works for, it's not like he has like a real relationship with him. Like their relationship is very confusing and it's not like it's like, oh, I've worked with this guy for so long and like... Affleck's 32 in this movie comes out. Wow. So essentially if we're going by breasts kind of notion of this, it's like, sure, when he was in his 20s, there were a lot of guys running with him and being like this,

but in the last few years, that's changed. Like, it just doesn't feel like quite enough. No, also 32 year old Affleck is one of the least hardened looking people in the world. Yeah, he's pretty baby face. Yeah. So. He's still so pretty.

And I thought that really worked for the character. So, Affleck says, you know, his name nobody can pronounce. It's a series of endless embarrassments for the character. He's living a life that doesn't really feel as his. He's faking it. Underneath the macho posturing is someone who's actually very sweet and unhappy. The story resonated with me in a way. Like, maybe it's sort of speaking to Affleck's vanity of like, yeah,

people don't get that I'm like, I'm a sweet guy. Like just cause I'm so beautiful and famous. And also being like, and I'm such a tough guy that people like, I feel like Ben Affleck really thinks of himself as like a tough South Sea kid. Right, right, right. Yeah, there's something that should be an interesting outlet for Affleck in like, I'm stuck being a like Michael Bay leading man.

And I have like poetry in my heart and everyone thinks I'm a dumb pretty doofus. So, Ricky, of course, is G. Lee's counterpart. We don't even need to talk about that right now. OK, so he doesn't have much to say about it. It's like she lets G. Lee know that his bullying has no effect on her. We just are describing the movie. No one's ever affected Gilly this way before. And he falls madly in love with her.

It just kind of feels like someone who's lost their mind. And I come over to their house. I'm like, what are you been doing? They're like, yeah, I'm doing this. Like, this is Gilly and like holds up an ad like, and this is, and she's going to help him and I'm like, these are not like, this isn't enough. It's very basic. I'm doing Adam Scott and Parks and Rec. Yeah. Yeah. Could a depressed person make this? Right.

Um, LA. I just want to say another wild decision for Affleck, David's putting a hand up to his ears. I got my listening tube in. That this will now be the second time Affleck has signed on to a I fall in love with a self professed lesbian and we just slowly kind of wait out the like, but are you really gay? Is there any room? Is there? Have you just not met Gilly? Right. And I feel like Kevin Smith has talked very, I think eloquently about how like, he was very intentional in crafting the Chasing Amy script that all of the worst opinions

come out of the mouth of Jason Lee, that there's the character who's the idiot and Affleck is kind of a dope and he's like so hung up on her. But all the like she just needs a good dicking stuff comes from the moron character. Whereas in this movie Affleck is also the moron character. He's the only character we have. There's just not enough people in this movie. Yes. Like the only other one's fucking Bartha. He's no good. When, as I said this to you in a different episode, when Larry Veneto is your fourth lead, you are in trouble.

That is not to be mean to Larry Veneto. That guy just needs to be deeper in your cast. Look, when he's 15th build in How Do You Know? Perfect. He's one of the best parts of the movie. Very funny part of the movie where they're giving birth and all that. Probably the one scene that works. We forgot to tape it, right? That's the joke? Yeah, they have to restage it. Have you seen How Do You Know? No. best parts of the movie. Very funny part of the movie where they're giving birth and all that. Probably the one scene that works. You forgot to tape it, right?

Yeah, funny. That's the joke. Yeah, they have to restage it. Have you seen How Do You Know? No. Oh, Jen, if you have to. You don't have to. Okay, if you are busted in the head.

Yeah. Your brain no working. You might need to watch How Do You Know? You specifically. Martin Brass has largely set his films in New York. However, he knows Los Angeles. Before he starts writing G. Lee, he starts exploring it in a way he'd never done before,

gravitating towards downtown LA, where Hollywood bigwigs never visit, he says. There's a different city within the city, he says. A slight state of disrepair, negligible architecture. Basically, Martin Bress' take seems to be like, what if I created a shitty character who's kind of a loser, put him in a dumpy apartment with nothing to look at so it's really hard to kind of like aesthetically lock into the film,

set it in like kind of a no neighborhood that nobody thinks about? Is that good for like a movie that costs $75 million to make? Like, is that a good idea? Fundamentally incompatible woman. What if I just like put all my limbs behind my back and break them and then try to make a movie? Right. But I do think that's part of the thing he was saying about. Like, I love the idea of like the challenge, the dare to an audience of like,

how are you going to watch this guy for two hours and making you? If I had just made Meet Joe Black, I might be like, what's safe territory? Not like what's not safe territory. And what's wild is I think for him, what's safe territory is I do an out and out comedy again. I think he really was like, I got this. If I'm within the comedy space and people are holding guns,

like this is the formula of my most successful films. And it's like, it's just two people in a room chatting. That's electrifying. I'm great with movie stars. I get the right people. Now Robert Ellsworth, who shot this film, who's obviously a wonderful cinematographer. He's worked with Paul Thomas Anderson,

Brad Bird, a bunch of brilliant people, but I don't know how much he did here to help. He did his best, I suppose. His theory is that Bcht wrote the film. He's like, that's where it goes wrong. Brecht hasn't written a film since going in style. And Ellswood says, "'Nobody sets out to make a bad movie.'

Marty Brecht, one of the smartest, funniest, most intelligent, strange, neurotic human beings I've ever worked with. I really loved it, but what he can't do is write. He made a horrible mistake. He tried to write his own movie. There are some people whose imaginative skills are all about taking a screenplay and working into something else.

That's Marty Brest. Incredible developer. Like he's talked about and it's one of the reasons that he made so few movies and there were such big gaps between them is he says, like I was always pretty monogamous in how I worked. Unlike a lot of directors who will be developing 10 things at the same time and waiting to see which one goes. I like commit to one project for seven years

until it's there and the studio agrees. But yes, starting with someone else, working with someone else, having someone else literally be the fingers on the keys. Maybe, yeah, there's an idea there. Marty decided to write his thing himself. Somehow he talked to a Roth and all those guys at Sony into doing it.

It was just not a film. And you know what? Part of it was the personal relationships. Ben fell in love with what's her name. Rude, Robert, you don't know her name. The whole thing was misshapen from the very beginning. I don't know if it ever would have worked out, but I think Marty Brest is not a screenwriter,

but he is a really interesting, compelling director and a lot of fun to be on set with. Elswit's basically like great time, you know, had loved making this. And Elswit says, why hasn't he worked? Well, he's asked why, why no more Brest? He said, look, the man, he doesn't get along with studio executives.

He's not a great partner. When his films make money for his partners, he, they put up with it as soon as they didn't, he couldn't buy a job. His lack of charm and inability to compromise and interact with studio executives, particularly on the film that costs the most money, make things complicated. There's more like combative. You know, it's just like, it's the classic like the minute you fail, if nobody loves you, you're in a worse situation. Also, look, we didn't get into it too much in the Beverly Hills Cop episode, but in watching this like Rob Fee interview and the few other times he's talked publicly since then, he

talks about getting fired off of war games as such a deep trauma for him, where he was like, that did not happen. Studios did not do that. I developed that movie for like two years and they fired me after three weeks because I butted my head against an exec. You know, there are all these notions of like them being unhappy with what they were seeing in the dailies and he contends that it like it was truly they didn't like that they couldn't control me. It was a behavioral thing more than a result thing. But that he comes out of that and he's like, I'm fucking ruined. My reputation's ruined.

No one will touch me in this town. I'm like radioactive. He tells a story about walking down the street of LA, seeing somebody new and that person crosses the street. Because they're like, this is just gonna be too sad. I can't talk to Marty. Too sad of a conversation. And Bruckheimer and Don Simpson love going in style.

And they like him. And they're just like, we want you to make a movie for us. And he's just like, I'm over. I'm cooked. He basically talks about them like spending months working to coax him out. He didn't want to do it. He turned down Beverly Hills Cup so many times. The infamous story about him tossing the coin and going if it flips up.

And he talks about at that point in time he had $500 in the bank and his rent was $450 and he was turning down Beverly Hills Cop because he was like, this isn't my zone and I just think I'm fucking ruined. And they force him to make this movie. It's this miracle. It works out so well. But you understand how if G. Lee hits him this hard and no one's coaxing him out, he's like, okay, then I'm done. And the variety interview he did in 2023, I want to find this line, but he talks

about it where he's like, look, I think I just had a good run. It was over. The response to G. Lee was so conclusive that I was like, okay, that's the end of my directing career. He's not self-pitying about it in a way that's kind of interesting. He was talking about how he is now just writing a novel or something, he's just like, yeah, I'm just writing things for myself now. Presumably lives off of residuals or he invested well.

I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I'm not worried about him paying the rent. Clearly he's doing fine, which is great. But I'm sure there was a period post G. Lee. We've talked, he's tried. Yeah. Damon and Affleck have talked about it. Like there've been moments of, can we get Marty a job? Like, you know, can he make one more movie? Maybe like, can he, you know, have something post G. Lee? But I think there's some version of he it's the other thing he said in this interview with this kid of just like, it was weird, but I did experience a

like Kubrickian level of freedom on all of my projects, save for war games, the one I got fired off of and G. Lee, the one that ruined me. G. Lee, basically in post-production. Right, he was like, going in style, there was this weird thing of these old legends trusting me, Warner Brothers seeing it as low budget enough that they took a flyer and putting it into a prime position. Beverly Hills Cop was such a weird situation

and they sort of protected me. Then I had cache and people let me do what I wanted to do. That I think to some degree, it's like, for how difficult he was, he also didn't seem to get that much pushback and the second he's like if it make movies this could be like this maybe I don't want to do it anymore you know there's a little bit of maybe just like I'm gonna take my ball and go home yeah I know but it's also like it's so interesting because the way he talks about stuff when he describes it I I'm like, that makes a lot of sense to me and I really feel for you.

And then like, like that quote I read and then reading the script and being like, it's basically what you mean. And you watch G-ly. Yeah. Because with the the thing about like, I'm going to take my ball and go home. Like I when I was reading that quote originally or like that interview where he's talking about like, oh, well, I'm not gonna be able to make movies with the level of control that I want. And so why would I do it?

Part of me was like, that's a refreshing level of self-awareness to be like, okay, I'm not good at working with studio people, and they are going to be really on me after this flop. I will never have control again. I will never do it, yeah. And the industry's changing at this moment of G. Lee. Like, even if he weren't coming off a flop, it would

be increasingly a part for him to... He knows his limits. He knows he's not going to be able to... Like, it's okay, you know, Marty, okay, you can make a smaller movie and we're going to have more oversight. And he's like, well, I just am not going to be able to do that. Ben Affleck not written for Larry G. Lee. I mean, Larry G. Lee not written for Ben Affleck in mind, right? You know, but easy choice for the role, Breast says, has the physical presence to make him intimidating, possesses a wonderful vulnerability, reveals a certain amount of self-doubt.

I know what he means. Speaking to Jen, the biggest fan of this performance, Affleck's what we've been talking about, inner tenderness. Affleck, like you said, said, really easy choice. I love, you know, breast smoothies. Marty's enormously gifted. There was wonderful stuff in there. He says, there's also things where my daughter will be like,

this is ablest and disgusting and okay. The way we see stuff has changed a little bit or a lot in some cases. And there are things that seem they could work at the time and don't in retrospect. The only thing I'll say to that is there's no way this ever seemed like it could work. I refuse to believe that. No, I found the quote I was looking for, which is I had a good run and I enjoyed success and freedom and that was fantastic. I would have liked it to go on longer, but everyone

likes everything to go on longer. But I feel very grateful for what I experienced. I'm glad he's at peace. And then he spends two paragraphs talking about, well then a script came out of me and I shopped around and no one wanted it. So it's like, I'm glad he's at peace, but it's not like he immediately was at peace. Once again, the Joan Didion quote,

we tell ourselves stories in order to live. You know, we gotta have some kind of. I'm curious though, I mean, JJ didn't find anything about, like even if he didn't write it in mind, was it just immediately to Affleck? It feels like Affleck was at that moment, pretty much one at the top of a lot of lists, right? He's getting gigantic projects, obviously. They're not like, as you say, auteur projects usually, but he's clearly a hugely in demand star.

I was, how old was I when this movie came out? 17. I remember when Armageddon came out when I was 12. Every girl I knew had a huge crush on Ben Affleck. It was not like he was some niche performer. He was below Leo in terms of like baby face cutie pies that like people my age liked, but he was right up there. Everyone had a crush on Ben Affleck.

And versus Leo and Damon, who were being so strategic about their careers. Damon to be clear was way lower on the list. Nobody had a crush on Matt Damon back then. Yeah. But they were also like building like serious artists careers based on working with O'Toole or whatever. The winners, yes.

There was something to how popular Ben Affleck was and how willing he was to just like be a movie star and when he talks about as a lack of options but I think Hollywood was desperate for someone like this at this moment. He does so many movies like he does post Good Will Hunting so 1998 he's in three movies 1999 he's in three movies 2000 he's in three movies plus he plays Joseph in Joseph King of Dreams, which seems to be some sort of a straight to video sequel of Prince of Egypt.

Yeah, yeah, weird, okay. 2001, he's in three movies if we include Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. He plays two roles in that. He does, Holden and himself. Yes. 2002, he's in three movies. 2003, he's in three movies. 2003, he's in three movies.

He just like was inescapable. It was consistent, very few of these movies are good, which is definitely the mistake he made. A fair amount of them are mediocre. Stuff like Bounce, Forces of Nature, Changing Lanes, Some of All Fears. Forces of Nature is do,anes, Oh my god, I totally forgot about Forces of Nature. Forces of Nature is do, if you want to rewatch it, there's stuff. Okay.

But it's not a great film. That higher group of movies you're talking about that you just listed are all- They're nobody's favorite movie. They all have stuff in them. They all got stuff. You wish any one of them was a secret masterpiece. None of them are, but all of them are like pretty respectable attempts at legitimate movies. And then there's just like his pure paycheck movie star lane. Obviously, there's like right sort of paycheck movie star movies that are basically bombs

like Pearl Harbor, Daredevil. Some of all fears is honestly almost in that category. There's stuff like is all those movies you've listed made a lot of money and yet they're hated and people were like, is that a bomb? Even at the time not loved. I think Armageddon is a masterpiece, but at the time it was not well received. But Pearl Harbor makes like 200 domestic. Daredevil does 100. Some of all fears does like 130.

They make money. What's his best performance in this run? That's a really tough question. Yeah, wow. Because there's a good grouping of performances pre-Armageddon. We're not talking about that. I know. And then there's a good grouping of performances after this period.

After Zhili. 100%. Starting with Hollywoodland, I would say that's where it's sort of like he starts to take real roles again. I would say it's changing lanes. He's pretty good in that. He's pretty good in that. He's not great You know everyone else is acting off the screen

But he's what would you want to hear her for your best performance? Everyone else is acting circles around him, but he's holding his own. That's a better way to put it So stay on the screen. Yeah, but like the circle. Yes. He's staying on screen I really like him in Shakespeare in love, but obviously that is a broad comic performance. A thing that takes him a while to come back to like, I should lean back into being the doofus. Yeah, and he needs to be the asshole. Yes. He's, you know, he's, he's totally fine and stuff like dogma, boiler room.

Yeah. Dogma, he's playing the asshole. Boiler Room is playing the asshole. Yes, exactly. Right. And it's like those are big ensemble movies where he's not that crucial. Totally. Jen, do you have anything else in here? I kind of like him in Forces of Nature. I'm sort of a secret fan of that movie.

Yeah, I mean, I just remember like... It's actually really hard to pick a favorite. It is. I know. It's kind of crazy. Like, looking back at his filmography like this, like it is just so weird. Because like pre-98, you're just like, he is very good in Goodwill hunting

and chasing Amy and dazed and confused. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Mall rats, like, you know, 100 percent. Like he was a guy who popped who's that cutie? And then he's like a hot guy at Armageddon's you're just like okay now. He's just kind of good in that movie It's very big emotional performance. It's a lot of yelling and crying It's a Michael Bay performance like I think he's giving that movie what it wants With that movie right needed

It's the best version of that. He's exactly what that movie needed. Versus Pearl Harbor. He's doing the same thing but going through the motions. Pearl Harbor, he looks like he wants to drink poison the whole time. Yeah, right. Hartnett is the one with some juice in that just because Hartnett feels like this alien they found. Like from Planet Cutie Pie, right? Where you're just like, who is this guy?

And he really feels corn-fed in a way. He feels like the movie is what the movie's going for. Affleck just feels really lost in that movie. God, you look at 2003 and it's like Battle of Shaker Heights comes out in 2003. Project Greenlight winner. I know it's just producer credom, but you have to think about how his omnipresence extending to Project Greenlight the show, right, within 2003. Then Daredevil, which is like coasting off of a couple superhero movies that people loved, first Spider-Man, first X-Men,

the first one where people are like, huh, can these suck? We all went, but are we capable of hating these movies? Daredevil people are walking out of that being like, I kind of enjoyed Colin Farrell or Michael Cullen, no one's coming out of that being like, you know, Affleck really rocked in that. He was really great. I went on a triple date to see Daredevil I mean, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like,

I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like,

I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like,

I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's day, I had been at softball practice, and guys, we had to do it in the gym because it was raining outside. And I was rounding third base and I slipped off the little mat

and I checked my shoulder, like, into a brick wall. And I thought that my shoulder, that I had maybe broken it or something, that something was really wrong. The whole time during the movie. The whole time I was like, something is wrong with my arm. And you can't do the old, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Which I just find very disgusting. And so I was like, no, I don't want that. And then only like hours later was I like, that probably read as like, do not kiss me. Oh, sure.

Yeah, you were putting off a bit of a no touching vibe. No touching vibe. But one of the couples that we were with made out the whole time they missed all of Daredevil. That sounds like the right move. I got to enjoy Daredevil. Uh-huh. I got to learn about Electra.

If Daredevil played softball in the rain, he would have done so well, because his radar sense would have been going crazy Right, that's the other big takeaway from daredevil is that like daredevil comes out it opens to like 40 million It makes a hundred million kind of like sneaks to a hundred right and very quickly Hollywood is like we've heard your cries a lecture movie Yeah, and everyone's like didn't Electrara die on screen in their like Electra movie? She's here. She's gonna fight a guy whose tattoos come out of his body.

Is Daredevil 2 happening? We're not even talking about that. It's true. So they even talked about like a bullseye movie. Nobody talked about a Daredevil movie. 2003, Project Greenlight's airing. He's now been dating JLo for like six months since production ended on Geely.

This is how they met? Yes! Oh my god. But he is listed as boyfriend and Jenny from the block, the music video. He sure was. And that's in 2002. So that's a year before.

They film it in 2002. They got together. This movie also took a while to get to us. Eight months of freeze out and post-production. Eight months of freeze out. Right. So just think about Project Greenproduction. Eight months of freeze out. So just think about Project Greenlight, he's dating J.Lo, he's all over the tabloids, Daredevil comes out, G. Lee comes out in August, and then what I would argue is the thing that

is actually the most damaging final nail in the coffin of this era of Affleck isn't even G. Lee, it's ending the year with a movie called Paycheck, where everyone's like, you're admitting it. He's really bad in that movie. Paycheck is kind of stinking. But also, I just feel like the movie sucks. I saw that on a date. And everyone's like, dude, we're all looking at you as a paycheck guy.

Yeah. You can't be in a movie called that and like cash in a lazy 20 million to be just dude with a gun. I really want someone to write like a very well-researched, I really want someone to write a very well-researched, basically book, I guess, about just like, movie star couples that met on a movie, because I feel like almost always the movie itself is very bad. Like Mr. and Mrs. Smith is pretty bad.

Yes, we're usually hearing like, right, their chemistry was so through the roof that they just had to run to the trailer and fuck, and then you watch the movie and you're like, were they even, were they even in the same room in these scenes? Like there's nothing here. So many great directors say when they notice like the zing to use Hotel

Transylvania parlance between their stars that they were like, my number one job has become making sure they don't fuck until the movie wraps. There's this like belief. It's not even like a superstitious curse. Maintain the tension. Right. That's what you need to capture on camera and then let them go off. Mr. and Mrs. Smith is one of the only examples of they met and fell in love and got together during the movie and the movie was a hit. Beyond most of them turning out poorly and the chemistry not being there, I would argue for all of Mr. and Mrs. Smith's misshapenness, they do, there is a palpable chemistry. They bottled some of that and that's the whole juice to that film and it worked. But when Affleck and J.Lo get together filming this

movie, before there are even whispers of like, maybe this script got away from breast, people are like, this is probably a bomb. This is probably a bomb because they fell in love and now people are going to be tired of them by the time the movie comes out. Yeah. Yeah. JLo was supposedly the first choice because she was reported by Variety for the part before it then is reported that Halle Berry will be taking the part. Then Halle Berry drops out, uh, over scheduling conflicts with X2, a film that had a very normal production process where no one was weird and no one told anyone

To kiss their black ass One of my favorite Halle Berry moments is when she told Bryan singer that Normal thing about that production was the directors chair, which was always filled with the director of the movie Show up and do his job every day at the normal hours Lopez says look I thought the project was risky, but I also felt it was juicy. It was tough stuff to work with. It's about relationships, she says. It's about men and women and what they think of each other.

I'd say it's definitely about the latter. It's definitely about men and women and what they think about each other. I don't think it's about the former. I don't, yeah, I disagree. It's mostly a movie of people just yelling at each other. Yes, people just monologuing. Martin Brest is right. What's Gilly about?

He's like, it's about this guy called Gilly, and I'm like, you're not wrong. That is what it is about. I detect no liars. Brest says about J. Lo, she's someone who can look you right in the eye and tell you exactly what she's thinking, who doesn't care what you think about her,

and yet her manner is soft and sensual. Okay, Lovae's an affleckck start dating on the set of this film. She was married to contender Chris Judd, vows for divorce from him, rampant tabloid stuff follows. Affleck asks Kevin Smith to cast Lopez in Jersey Girl, which is the movie he's making after this. Obviously she's just at the start of Jersey Girl, because she's the mom who has died, right?

And it's this thing that totally fucks them that she is like the Drew Barrymore kind of fake out of the movie, but when there was so much juice around them as a couple, they pushed really hard. It's another J.Lo Affleck movie coming down the pike. Isn't it both of them on the poster? Well, and then when G. Lee bombed, they tried to like roll it back, but people,

then they started hiding her in the marketing. But people were like, no, you told us this was the two of them. We can't forget this now. But yes, they film all of Jersey Girl before Gilly comes out. Gilly opens, wedding rumors continue to circulate, but then break up January 2004. And many people think that the pressure of the fallout of this movie took its toll on their relationship.

I mean, it can't have helped. No. That's horrifying. Gilly, both Affleck and Lopez and Brest and everybody else all think that the press coverage of their relationship probably negatively affected the film, people's perception of it and so on and so forth. A lot of baggage. We don't really need to get into it too much.

This movie opens with Larry Sheetley monologuing, seemingly straight to camera. About what? It's one of his fucking monologues, Nature of Man or some shit. Yeah, it's something about, I think it actually might be like part of, I feel like part of the monologue that you read

from the original ending, I feel like they repurposed. Yes. Right, or maybe he's calling back to it because Brest knew people are still gonna have those sage words ringing in our ears by the end of the movie. Nothing matters, yeah.

I'm watching this and I'm like, Brest is trying shit. This is kind of interesting to have the character narrate the movie to camera. He's in a laundromat, guy walks in behind him, he's like, hey, can't you see I'm talking here? Kicks the guy out, I'm like, this is kind of fun, he's playing with the form, and then we cut into

the washing machine, it's a guy tied up, and immediately I'm like, this is just kind of hacky boring shit. It's hacky boring shit. It's so uninterested in whatever this guy's actual life would look like, instead it's like cartoon, like hey, gimme the money or I'll punch ya, you know, we want me to turn the washing machine on, and whatever this guy's actual life would look like. Instead it's like cartoon like, hey, give me the money or I'll punch ya.

You know, we want me to turn the washing machine on. And then like in his inner monologue, he's like, you know what, there are five boroughs in New York City, but you never fucking know. Like the first part I made up and the second part is real. Like that's, it's that, it's- His first three studio films all have concepts that on paper sound like they could be

as silly and broad as this. And he kind of directs them like dramas while knowing where the jokes are. And this immediately is telling you it lives in Goofball's McGillicutty world. It's so crazy. It's the script feels like it was written like stream of consciousness. And because the fact that you go from like, you open with him just intimidating a guy to laundromat And then he just wanders down the street and just happens upon his boss

Who's also intimidating some other guy and it is just very vague general like give me the money Like I'm gonna kill ya feels like the film Queens Boulevard from entourage. I was gonna say it feels very entourage II and I think like Part of it is 2003 part of it is the LA of it all but like it does feel like it exists in the entourage. Vinny's like hey I gotta do my gangster movie and suddenly right there's just like a bowling shirt on him and there's like gel in his hair and he's like hey and you're like right they of course this is entourage they took ten seconds on this. Breast talks so much about how.

It's gonna be $75 million. That is crazy where did the money go besides to the 25 was two of them? Yeah, i'm guessing like Both pacino and walking got stupid amounts for how little they were i'm still seeing a missing 40 On like one shitty apartment extensive reshoots Uh-huh sure like eight months of like they there like a cut scene in Quantum Realm or whatever? Like, you know, like, what are we talking about here? She leashed it into the Quantum Realm. She leashed it into there. Get in there.

I don't want him here. It is a where did the money go movie outside of just like, much like how did you know? You're like, okay, so the stars cost a lot, but also if you have a director who takes nine months to film this, and then two years to edit it. It's a lot of, right, you have a director who takes nine months to film this and then two years to edit it.

It's a lot of right. Just people being paid to kind of stand around. Yeah, yeah. It's a lot of waiting tax. I do feel like I read a lot of like the actors talking about Martin Bress specifically on this movie and all of them mentioned like he really gives you like a lot of leeway. Like, it really seems like everyone was doing like 800 takes and that every scene probably took weeks to film. Every other.

Probably. Look, many of the actors we've read quotes from who worked on his films were very frustrated by his process. But it always felt in every other instance you hear someone like Yaffa Koto, who like wanted to strangle him while filming Midnight Run, and then goes to see the movie at the premiere and is like, he was fucking right about everything. And I thought he was being persnickety and too particular about everything, but he was right.

And then you watch this and you're just like, did he give anyone a note the entire time? Yeah. I believe he did 800 takes, but was he just saying like, hey, camera's still rolling, feel free to keep doing shit? Yeah. It feels like there was no direction. I believe he did 800 takes, but was he just saying like, hey, camera's still rolling, feel free to keep doing shit? Yeah. It feels like there was no direction.

It's also crazy that it's just like, again, like reading the script, it really just feels like you are seeing the movie again. Like it's so, like even just the way that he describes, there's during Ben Affleck's huge monologue of like, Sultan of Slick, gangsters, gangster or whatever, there's an action line that, like, there's, during Ben Affleck's huge monologue of, like, Sultan of Slick, gangsters, gangster, or whatever, there's an action line that describes, like, you know, Ben Affleck, like, or Gilly savoring every word, like, gangsters, gangster. And you do see him doing exactly that. So it is just kind of like, what were the multiple

takes? What were people trying? They were just doing... He describes shots and the shots that are in the movie. So you're like, what got away from you? This opening, I was like, I, this feels like the kind of thing that might have been a studio forced reshoot. Hey, we want the comedy to be broader. Start with a guy in a fucking washing machine. That's silly and big, right? And then you're like, no, this is how he started his draft.

I was also certain. I was like, okay, like if, if he got so much pressure to like lean into the lab story or whatever from the studio, then like certainly it was a reshoot when they kiss. In the script, they have sex. I was like, this is insane. Yes. And there's stuff where I'm like, the score feels very studio mandated. The score is insane. The score is horrible.

No disrespect to John Powell, but it just feels like... Well, John Powell can give you something good, or he can probably clearly be told with one day's notice, like, hey, can you just fucking do some bouncy shit for this movie? I mean, he did a great job for Rat Race. Very true. This is a score where you're like, the studio is like, we don't trust the audience. You need to tell the audience what kind of movie they're watching the entire time.

Although the craziest part was like, the score was so intrusive and kind of all over the place. Like it would be like, you know, him walking down the street and it would just be like, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, like I'm walking down the street. And then it would get like very serious. But then when he first, when JLo first shows up at his door, it's like, okay, if you're leaning into like, make this a love story, this is the meet cute essentially there is no score It's completely dry and it's completely dry for like so long when they're in the apartment and I'm just like that is the number one

That's the first thing you do when you're just like god. We're really stuck in this apartment Can we make it feel bigger you would add score? But as you said the score goes hardest in the moments where like nothing is happening Because it's like the movie is trying to yell at you, you're having fun. This is fun, right? We love him walking down the street. Right. When these two, when Gilly and, uh... What's her name?

Ricky. Ricky, get together. The fireworks. That, you know, that's what the movie seems to think of itself. Right. That there's a fireworks display happening inside this beautiful downtown LA apartment. Yeah. I there is a fireworks display happening inside this beautiful downtown L.A. apartment. Yeah. I love the part of breast conception was I went to downtown L.A.

and I was like, this place looks terrible. I should set a whole movie here. He's like, OK, no architecture. What I am saying to you, I said he's like, OK, so I've I've come up with a completely unlikable character. But where to put it? Like somewhere interesting? No, let's turn.

But even like this, oh, the sparks are gonna fly with Ricky and Geely stuck in an apartment together. What does Ricky do? Mostly just yoga. Sits in a chair, reads books. Yeah. The yoga is like at least a little like, oh, look her body on display.

And I was like, wow, she's really doing a lot of yoga. I'd say Ricky's number one. She probably had in her contract of like, I get to do it just a day of yoga. She definitely is like, she was like, wow, she's really doing a lot of yoga. I'd say Ricky's number one, like, had in her contract of like, I get to do it just a day of yoga. She definitely is like, she was doing, she starts off in a pose where I was like, she 100% was like, I can do this pose, and you're gonna show me doing this pose. But Ricky's main characteristic, I would argue, is voracious readers.

He has a yoga mat and a book. Yeah, those are her things. And she makes fun of him for not reading books. Is she supposed to be a hitman? A hit woman? A contract killer? Yeah, she's a contractor. She gets hired out for various types of jobs.

She never shows any interest in doing anything like that. And also that doesn't- What about when she yells at those kids? But that's the thing. You're like, when she says, I do various types of jobs in this kind of movie, you infer, oh, she must be saying, I kill people for a living. And then by the end of the movie, I'm like,

does she truly just do various types of... Is she just a gopher? Because that's what's so crazy. It's like, okay... Is she a temp, basically, for the mob? Yeah. Like, if this is a movie about a guy who has been doing all this, like, low-level crime or whatever, and is sort of, like, disillusioned with it and wants... and doesn't know what his life

is gonna be like or whatever, it's sort of like, why would you pair him with someone who seemingly is going through like the exact same thing, but not in a different way? So they have no like, they have no conflict really between them except just random hostility. It basically only makes sense if you believe that the Letty Vanito character was trying to set the two of them up. Yes. That he was like, you guys will like each other. You're gonna love her, she hates penises. It's also like-

It's one of the first things she'll tell you. Not to speak ill of Martin Bress, but he is the only writer of this film. He seems to think lesbians are just women who think men are full of shit and have a yoga mat. Right? And think penises are gross. Disgusting. This is a big point. I'm not just being like libbing the joke I'm making of like. She says this a lot. Right. It's very. It's text, not subtext. Very odd. And this was a very small thing in the script,

but it really, I feel like it was very telling in her speech that culminates in Pussy, like that's like the punchline. Very long speech. Very long speech. She, in the script, it's my pussy instead of just pussy. And then Pussy is capitalized, which I really feel like just shows you like like, he thinks... Because I also...

Does he think he's doing Tarantino? The script is very stylized in the way it's like, not just the dialogue, but the way it's formatted. Yes. And the way it's written, like, it's just all very, like... Yeah, very stylized. And it just feels like he really thinks like he's really doing something and he's getting into it. And he's getting into it. And he's like really blowing our minds with these dueling monologues about like,

what's the sexiest form, man or woman? Well, that monologue about the difference between a penis and a pussy, if I may. It does feel like it's... I don't know. I'm using his words. I know, I'm like, as soon as I was saying it in the watch I was like, ugh. It's the unexploded bomb at the center of Gili.

We simply have to go and engage with it. Because what she's basically arguing that a penis looks like a night slug, is that what she says? A sea slug or something like that. Yeah, yeah, she has a whole... And then she makes this weird circular argument where she's like, vaginas are beautiful because they look like the mouth and why do we like kissing mouths? Because they's like, vaginas are beautiful because they look like the mouth, and why do we like kissing mouths?

Because they remind us of vaginas. And you're like, so which one are you arguing is boosting the other one? You're saying one is getting a glow up from it. It's a 12 year old's idea of sexuality. It's like, yeah, lesbians hate penises. They might love men, guys like Larry Gilleley for example you know kind of crunchy outside soft inside You know like going on with that guy You know the Tarantino thing of like I'm gonna write a three page monologue that's explaining. Do you know what?

Superman or Top Gun or like a virgin is really about and breast is like I want to do that kind of monologue About what kind of human genitals? Yes Not in metaphor. And it will have no effect on either character either. Like they don't really, I mean, I guess he kind of, like she gets in his head, I guess. Right, he's like, why don't you like penises? And she's like, here's why vaginas are great.

And he's like, gotta agree, I do love vaginas. He's like, you stumped me. But then the movie sort of starts getting, not to jump ahead, but like the whole second half is her making him question his masculinity. Yeah. Which I was sort of like, again, okay. Like Ben Affleck is like, I don't know.

I'm like, that's maybe interesting if it's just like this tough guy. And then all of a sudden it's like, well, are you so tough? What's your masculinity? You know, like sort of the Chasing Amy version of this, of like, what are these labels? Is all of a sudden it's like, well, are you so tough? What's your masculinity? You know, like sort of the chasing Amy version of this, of like, what are these labels? Is all of this blurry? Is it all about people or whatever? But like she sleeps with him and then is like, by the way,

I think you're kind of a lady. It's so crazy. Because of the way you look at your nails. Yeah, the nails thing. That was so, that's the most like early 2000 thing of like, you know how I know you're gay, you look at your nails like this instead of like this. Yeah, like so stupid. Even Bartholomew looks at his nails the man way that really was here. Here's the plot of this movie. Fucking washing

machine, right? wanders out into the street, as you said, runs into Lenny Bonito. Let me know. It's like, Hey, do me a favor. We got this guy. We don't want to crack down on this. Go get his little brother. He's a little bit of, woo hoo. Ben Affleck at like 12 minutes in, at max. The work you did, I would say subtler than Larry Bonito. Thank you.

Just a little subtler. But like maybe 10 minutes into the film, Affleck walks into this home, finds Justin Bartha. Justin Bartha's like, you're an idiot, I love Baywatch. He's like, cool, come with me. Brings it back to an apartment, then immediately J.Lo shows up. And then we're basically just stuck in that

for an hour and a half. Yeah, over half the movie is in the apartment. Yes, sometimes people come visit. Sometimes people drop by, this police officer that he has a relationship with that we don't understand. Very rarely they leave. Yeah. They do eventually.

Yeah. Sometimes they try to commit suicide. Yeah. Yes, this film has sort of three pop-ins, I guess, like Walk-In, Lainey Kazan, which is them popping in with her, but that's a fun, and then Pacino, right? And the girlfriend. Oh, fuck the girlfriend.

I actually erased that from my memory. Same. It was so upset. It's actually upsetting. It's genuinely upsetting. She cuts her wrists. It's very, very fucked up. It happens out of nowhere. It's played as comedy.

It's like, oh, look what I did now. And it's like, there's a very dark comic version of this film where, sure, you could go that hard and have it kind of work. I mean, clearly, clearly it's not G. Lee character that was out the movie kept trying to show up and J. Lo kept trying to shake her and she kept trying to. She kept threatening to kill herself.

I'm not against like the dark comedy version of that gallows humor. Insane, you know, but like it is not a seventy five million dollar movie where it's like, you know, like we'reast is like, I conceded, I gave in? Was there a version of this movie that was word for word basically the same, save for a couple reshoot scenes, right? But the pacing was a little more naturalistic, the color timing was a little darker, the score was moodier.

It's so weird though, because the way it's shot is very like bright and poppy and like Doesn't look I don't really know Yeah, it looks like legally blonde which I said with no disrespect to legally blonde But it's like very much in the deregular like broad comedy of the early 2000s I'll and it's so and the performances are at that level. Yeah Except for Ben Affleck's who's really good He is not Jen

Your first appearance on this podcast and I would like to have you back Pulling that pin out. I appreciate You coming in with a take, you know You coming in to like to take the gloves off and do battle with us, but I don't know that I could call him good in this movie. Griffin? I mean, no, I was really struggling with it and it's a bummer for me because it is, as I said, it's the kind of part I think he now does so well. Sure. And he carries the weight with him.

Right. Where he doesn't need to force these things. Like, I do feel, to some degree, we talked about it so much in our Gone Girl episode, but it's why the, it's the best he will ever be cast. And one of the most ingenious, like strategic movie star castings of all time is the text of that movie is like, why isn't this guy defending himself harder?

There's something about him just coasting where you're just like, there's something about this guy that drives me a little bit crazy. Yeah, I just don't want to like this guy. He's a little too lucky. Is it the fucking chain he has to cover up? Whatever it is. And this is that era where I'm like, Affleck is always almost simultaneously trying too hard and not hard enough. Where you'll feel this weird distribution of energy, of like certain things he thinks he can kind of just finesse,

and glide through on charisma, and other things he is overselling so hard. And sometimes it's not even like one scene is like this and one scene is like that, it's like elements of the character simultaneously. Within one scene. I don't think he's good in this. I think I can almost make the argument for JLo being good in it. Wow. Almost. Whoa. I mean, I just think, okay, you have to like, of course, as a given, all the characters

are very bad. They're bad. It's a bad... It's a very... Just sort of, like, all over the place movie. Like, nothing really matters or makes sense. So, removing that from the equation, just looking purely at the performance. I was like, him giving that monologue, like, the ridiculous monologue of, like, I am the Sultan of Slick. I am the gangster's gangster.

Like, I was just like, this is interesting to me because I do buy that he, that G. Lee believes what he's saying. Yes. But it's not true. Right. And like, that, the layers of that, of like, this is a man who's lying to himself.

I was like, this is interesting to me, and I feel like he's really pulling that off, probably because he himself is kind of lying to himself in this moment, and he's in a weird spot where he's just like, I is interesting to me. And I feel like he's really pulling that off, probably because he himself is kind of lying to himself in this moment. And he's in a weird spot where he's just like, I think you can sort of feel like the anxiety of like, this is my big shot and like, am I going to do it right? And I just feel like that that worked. There was something I was just sort of like, I buy this as a character.

Him psyching himself up in the mirror. Which is often a funny scene. Paul Rudd in Wanderlust? Yeah. Great version of it. But I'm like, that's the closest I get to seeing the version of him at this age fitting this character to a certain degree.

And then that scene, which is obviously like, I don't want to say the beginning of the end, but it's one of the scenes where you're like, what is this movie? The beginning of the end, but it's one of the scenes where you're like, what is this movie? The beginning of the end is minute 00001 or whatever. Title card Glee. Title card Glee is pretty tough. It is one of the aspects of this movie

that is so conceptually bizarre to me, and I wonder if it is this part of Brest that likes building narrative challenges for himself, making things that the audience is gonna doubt he can pull off. But you're just like, why is it not a kid? Yes, why is it not a kid? Like this movie makes so much more sense

and is so much less like delicate, let's say. If it's like they have to kidnap the fucking guy's son and it's an annoying kid and they're sort of this weird, they're stuck in an apartment playing a family. And here are like two people who are sexually incompatible and a child who isn't theirs, who is being kept against his will versus like Justin Bartha is the inference that he is now developmentally disabled

as the aftermath of some attack? Or did I misunderstand that? No, I think he just... I think this is just the way he is. Although I will admit, possibly zoning out during exposition in G. Lee because I hated the movie. He has a line in his first scene of like, it's not my fault that my brain got messed up. I think that's just his really unique and funny way of looking at the

world, you know, like when he talks about his penis sneezing, that's another example for, you know, just like only through the mind of Brian can we think of ejaculation that way. He's very horny. He loves dancing to sort of let's say suburban 90s hip hop hits. Again, if you separate the performance from the character, it's a committed performance. It's committed.

And I'm just sort of like, I feel bad for him. He didn't choose to do this. I mean, he did. But also it's like, if you're offered a role in a movie or the third lead and it's Martin B's martin breast and ben african Basically his first real movie 100 his first real movie I can't believe this came out the same year as national treasure. I didn't national treasures one year later Oh one year, but in a way that makes me wonder like did he book national treasure when they were like

Look, he's the third lead in a freaking j-lo afleck movie Wow, or did his agents work so hard to be like, we got to get your rebound project ASAP? Immediately. That's so interesting. I mean, I feel like they must have leveraged him being cast in this to get him to that. But then it's sort of like, but don't you think they would have asked to see the Dailies?

And if they saw the Dailies, they would have. It is truly 1998. He is uncredited clubgoer in 54. 1999, he's credited in a short film. G. Lee is his first feature film in a speaking role I mean, it's crazy but yeah, I was gonna say that in the scene when Ben Affleck goes to get him I was also zoning out a little bit because

That location is where I got married In honor of Julie, of course. In honor of Julie. You had a Fast and Furious themed wedding? I did, yeah. Lightly, elegantly, you wouldn't know unless you know. Well, I would know, my hat's off to you. Yeah, thank you so much.

Yeah, we got married at the Ebell in Los Angeles, which is like a beautiful venue, but we knew that it sort of was used a lot for filming, but we didn't really know how much. And it's actually been kind of a fun thing, is that we keep seeing it pop up and we're like, oh, look, it's the E-Bow. But seeing it pop up as the assisted living facility

that Justin Barth is living in, in Shealy, I truly was like, oh, God. It's so uncomfortable. You get uncomfortable just the second you're like, this is what the performance is, this is going to be the rest of the movie. I think people were uncomfortable in 2003. It's certainly only aged worse. Yes.

We've moved past this as a culture, it feels like, finally. But you're also just like, part of the characterization is like, oh, and he is annoying. It's not even like just the Rain Man thing of like what you're saying that part of the calculation of Rain Man is, oh we're showing you that Cruise is an asshole by how much he gets annoyed by him when he is operating from a good place versus Barthas character sort of being annoying by design. He keeps calling Geely stupid and talking about his penis and Baywatch.

It's also the reason that he's calling Geely stupid is because Geely comes up He keeps calling G. Lee stupid and talking about his penis and Baywatch. It's also the reason that he's calling G. Lee stupid is because G. Lee comes up while he's eating sunflower seeds and says, are you eating polly seeds? And he's like, they're sunflower seeds. And he's like, oh, okay. Well, I call them polly seeds. And it's just sort of like, what are you talking about? Like, why would you just assume that someone would know?

Like, I've never heard of that. It's a weird start. Exactly. Right. He's like, oh, well, I'm from, they call Kone Polyseeds and I'm like, read the room. Like this is a developmentally disabled person. You're already picking a fight with him on like what sunflower seeds are called when he got it right? Yes. And once they're stuck in the apartment with them, all that's left to do is just they get annoyed by him while Affleck continues to try to fuck JLo Versus let's say if it's a child and the child's like, you know, you have to like take me out I need exercise whatever you love that your plussing of this movie is that with an annoying kid, which obviously is something basically Always sucks in a movie. Yeah, but obviously would be better than this

I'm watching this and like longing for Alex D. Linz with like a fucking bull cut. The thing about Rain Man is Rain Man has a pretty specific conception of that character. It is stereotypical or like kind of magical in this way. That's like kind of a shortcut, right? But it's like, he is a savant. And he's got a perfect memory.

He has a specific way of talking. We've done research into this kind of specific kind of a shortcut, right? But it's like, he isn't, he is a savant. And he's got a perfect memory. He has a specific way of talking. We've, right, we've done research into this kind of specific kind of person. It's a very rare sort of thing, but blah, blah, blah. Right? And then you're watching crews. Initially we use them as this pawn and then grow and learn about him and yada, yada, yada.

This has no conception of what this guy is like. Brian is the dilemma. He exists to annoy them. That's the point. But like, there's no, he's sort of an overgrown child. I guess is what they're doing with the Baywatch and the, I need a bedtime story kind of stuff. The Tabasco scene, you can almost see how that would be fun. It's the cutest idea they have because it's putting it all on Geely to be like,

ah, since 1905 or, you know, like to read the back of a bottle to him and it's making fun of the fact that he's good at, which is like, why can't this guy try harder? And he has no books in his house. He has no books. Yeah. You know, but like bring an entire suitcase of just books. She shows up, by the way, he brings Brian back to his place.

She shows up like two hours later. They don't give him a chance to fuck up. I also, I was fascinated by this scene because it's again, very stream of consciousness of just like, okay, now they're in the apartment, what's gonna happen now? A lady shows up and like she walks in and the way that they reveal, like the reveal of why she's there and that she's in on it,

she's been hired, blah, blah, blah. Like it's done so strangely. Like she makes that phone call, what is that phone call? She just walks in and she's like, hey, how's it going? Yeah. They're like, who are you? She's done so strangely. Like, she makes that phone call. What is that phone call? She just walks in and she's like, hey, how's it going? Yeah. They're like, who are you? She's like, Ricky.

Yeah. What are you doing here? We'll get to it. She really should be like, hi, I'm the lesbian character, but like, feel free to hit on me because that wall is gonna fall right down with a little bit of work. Instead, she's like, right, I've been sent to help you.

I'm, you know, kind of someone who does stuff. Like, you know, and that's it. It's also so strange because it's like, right, I've been sent to help you. I'm, you know, kind of someone who does stuff, like, you know, and that's it. It's also so strange because it's like, then she's like, okay, so like she has this whole charade of just being like the girl from down the hall and she needs to make a phone call to no one. And then she's like, can I talk to you for a second? She pulls him down the hallway and it's just like, okay, so I'm assuming that your boss didn't tell you that he doesn't trust you and he thinks you're a fuckup and you can't do this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was sort of just like, why have we not seen that he's really a fuckup? I get that he was annoyed, that Larry was annoyed,

or Louis was annoyed with him earlier. He successfully put this guy in a washing machine. So far I've only seen this guy accomplish his- He only got half the money out of him because he's too soft, Griffin. Let's also say the closest thing this movie has to a twist is that Lenny Veneto was operating on... He's out of pocket.

Yes. That this whole assignment was him trying to make a good impression, not on marching orders. Right. The ultimate revelation is that Pacino is the boss. Veneto is the capo or is that Pacino is the boss. Veneto is the capo or whatever. Gilly is the nobody.

And Veneto eventually is like, cut this kid's thumb off and we'll use it to like threaten this DA or whatever. Yeah, off screen stakes of like, things are not going good. Cut his thumb off now on page 70. We've learned to love Brian too much to cut his finger off.

So instead there's a whole falter all where they go to the fucking hospital and get it from a corpse or whatever. We the audience are relieved that they're leaving their apartment. Exactly. We're thrilled they're going to a morgue. To go to a morgue. Yeah, and just argue in a different travel location. And to be clear, the reason they're in the hospital is because the girlfriend tried to kill herself. Tried to kill herself.

Jesus. There's a successful intervention we assume. Otherwise they would not have left characters dropped like a fucking brick after that, obviously, but then Pacino shows up and is like, right. I disapprove of this strategy. What were you guys doing? This was being crazy thought, but also why didn't you do it? I demand loyalty.

And if you're going to do it, you might as well do it. And the thumb print didn't match. And if you're going to do it, you might as well do it. And the thumb print didn't match an hour ahead here. And we'll circle back to talk to Turkey time and walk. It was just like, I never approved of this plan shoots. Lenny Vanito in the head and simultaneously is angry at them for going along with Lenny Vanito and also not doing it. Well, he basically comes in, he's got like kind of a couple drops left of his Roy Cohn performance from Angels in America, kind of just like sprinkles it on the carpet. And then it's like, I'll see you later.

He's 100 percent without dispute, the best part of the movie and the best performance. He does not embarrass himself at all. It's kind of like hacky pacino shit, but he is at least you're like, yeah, he's good at this. Like, this is fine. Yeah. The only part of the movie where you're at least awake. That and Turkey time. Yeah. Him casually sitting next to the guy's body

and just like chatting and like being a psycho. It's good. I was like, this is great. Now as a counterpoint to this, Walken has the second scene deleted, but similarly just has this like extended eight minute dialogue scene where he's circling an Affleck and trying to get a read on him. And his performance in this is so strange because it is

like Breast and the movie think that this is the first time anyone is putting Walken in a comedic context. He is walking in basically wearing the exact same suit he wore in the Fatboy Slim video. I was just, yes. He looks identical. It's that look. Straight off the set. So, like, Walken has been codified into a comedy meme at this point. Like, it is, it's honed, right? He's hosted SNL fucking four times.

Other comedies have used him. He's in a fucking music video that wins the VMAs or whatever. Like, we all get it. Funny Walken. We're here for it. And then he comes in and he plays it fairly straight without putting the extra 10% of like, stakes on it, like Pacino where it's like, is this guy truly a little scary?

It feels like it's a, well, just the context of Walken being in a movie like this is funny. This guy being serious in a movie like this. But it's also, I mean, it was sort of like, maybe this would have worked if I understood at all being in a movie like this is funny. This guy being serious in a movie like this. But it's also, I mean, it was sort of like, maybe this would have worked if I understood at all what their relationship was, other than just like, this is a detective that just showed up

and seemingly knows this guy well enough to barge into. I'm still trying to figure out everyone's dynamic at this point. Jennifer Lopez's character's a lesbian. Yeah, yeah. That's her relationship to the world. But maybe. But yeah, Christopher Walken,

he's not really doing some Walkenisms. No. Until the very end, when he Walkens out so hard to be like, your tongue would slap your face if you put it on your head or whatever about ice cream. That line is insane. But Envy is the year after this, two years before This Is America, Sweethearts,

both movies that like deploy him in the last 30 minutes and are just like, walk and do whatever the fuck you want and put him in crazy wigs. And you're like, this guy's just... It's kind of like Dune II. Automatic comedy. Your tongue would slap your brains trying to get to it. I was trying to remember him describing Marie Callender's ice cream.

Interested? Sure. That's what this movie is doing. This movie, Brest is deploying him. This goes back to the does he think he's doing Tarantino. This movie is deploying him like the Pulp Fiction scene. Where it's like what's the funniest thing in the world? It'd be Walken monologuing for eight minutes in a silly movie or about a silly subject, but he's playing it straight. Do you remember when, um,

Gilly says that lesbians buy wrenches and stuff so that they can compensate for not having a penis? Yeah, that's his main argument. Yeah. Wonder what like Alison Bechel would make of all this. She should she should do a graphic novel version of G. Lee, where she really delves into it. Four hours into them knowing each other, she's like

making a bed on his like bench press. Right. On the floor. Yeah, I thought it was like on his exercise equipment. She was like, whatever. I feel like G. Lee does in his workout room. Sure. He pretends he does five minutes, then he's some M&Ms jerks off looking at a bare wall.

It's nice to be done. When he was shirtless, I did have this like very kind of like sad, weird moment of being like, oh, it's so nice to see like a regular body, like a regular good body. Yeah. Yeah. It really is a dark sign of where we are now. Right, because now Affleck fluctuates between his kind of like slightly assisted kind of Snyder abs, where like work is being done. We all know this is part of it. Or his kind of like...

And his way back. Yeah, right. His Dunkin' Donuts way back. I'm on the beach. I'm looking a thousand miles into the distance body, which is a body I support and aspire to, to be clear. Way back was the last movie I saw in theaters before COVID. I was really sorry I didn't see it in theaters. Me too, no, I saw The Hunt after it, which is terrible. Way back would have been a way better.

Okay, she's making her bed on the floor next to his exercise equipment, but I want to say this is minute 30. Like, basically, he gets Bartha, he meets Bartha at minute six, they're at the apartment at minute 10, and then there's 20 minutes of these characters just fighting before he gets to the point where he's like, you know, I got half a bed that's open if you want to get in there. She's like, thank you, that's very nice of you. What a gentleman.

Clearly is responding in a non-sexual way, right? Is just like, I trust you. He goes in the bathroom, he's like, you're gonna fucking give her the dick. He's like flexing muscles, goes in there, plays really hard. She's seemingly charmed. She's like, this is so funny, you're not my type. How could I not be your type?

For one thing, your penis. And then he goes like What and then they basically woman now? I've heard everything Basically start negotiating over whether or not she is a lesbian which then is the next hour of the movie Yes, and her performance is very much Leaning into the fact that she might not be right, which is crazy into the fact that she might not be. Right. Which is crazy.

Which, which, which, which, which Lainey Kazan basically opens up where she's just like. The noise I just made, I want to submit that as my review for the film, just FYI. They go over to Lainey Kazan's house so he can inject his mom. Is this just we hot? Right. And he's just like, uh, and she's like, no, I'm gay. And then Lainey Kazan looks her in the eyes and is like, but you have slept with some men, haven't you?

And then basically they bond around their mutual like exploration. Yes, that was very strange. I was like, are they going to fuck? That would have been interesting. This episode is you'll never guess who it's brought to you by. Tell me. Take one guess. Movie.

Yep. Curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema around the globe. Brought to you by... Tell me. Take one guess. Movie. Yep. Curated Streaming Service dedicated to elevating great cinema around the globe. And here's another thing they're dedicated to. Semi-regularly bringing you episodes of our show. Sure, yes they are. They're a lovely and frequent sponsor of Blank Check. And I want to tell you some of the stuff you can catch on the great streaming service movie

They've got we like movie ad reads because we get to just tell you movies We like that are on the surface streaming on movie in the US starting on July 1st boyhood Hey heard of it Richard link later's opus or to argue shot over nine years following a boy Is that where how they made that movie I would have heard about by now I think that movie was shot at an Ethan Haw shot straight through with extensive prosthetics to age him and stilts. So if you're in a Linklater mood right now because of Hitman and such, go check out Boyhood on MUBI. Here's another one though.

Dami. This is a short film by Jan Demange exploring what it means to be Arab, French, or British, also tackling questions of vulnerability and family relationships. Now, Yann Dimanche, kind of a hot name in movies right now, was possibly going to be making a Marvel movie. I was going to say, famously not directing Blade. Made 71, which is this very intense movie.

White Boy Rick. And then White Boy Rick. So much enthusiasm right there. Dami has Riz Ahmed in it. And Isabella Jani, whoa. Hey. Damn, okay. That just sounds kind of cool.

I mean, it's available to stream and apparently it's visually inventive in Dreamlight. Okay. So that's cool. Anyway, you can try movie free for 30daysamovie.com slash blank check. That's mubi.com slash blank check for a month of great cinema for free movie movie

Is this movie better if G Lee and Ricky do not sleep together Yeah, if she learns that Ricky is yes Indeed a gay woman a thing that exists and is still a whole person, not just a penis phobic weirdo or whatever he thinks she is. Yes. And then it's just about this kind of like complicated friendship they develop in this bizarre assignment they have. And that's what the movie is about. I think so. Yeah. Sure. And it almost feels like what the movie is getting at is her

making him realize that he's gay. That would be honestly, that would kind of be awesome. That would be incredible. At least understand. Wait, I want to keep fixing G. Lee. OK, now Ben is just a regular guy. Yes. OK, he's three or four years younger than G. Lee. That's it. He's just a regular guy they kidnap.

And it's her engineering a gay romance between them helping like helping the character. Yeah, Brian, whatever his name is. What did I call him? You said Ben. That's why I got confused. Right, yeah, right. Yes, okay.

We just, Brian is just a, yeah, he's just Justin Bartha. Right, yeah. Right. And he's basically in the Duke role for Midnight Run. He's just annoying adult man. And he's gay. And then she's like, yeah, not only am I gay,

I think you're gay, Gilly. You're playing a QR. And Gilly's like, no, I'm not I gay, I think you're gay. You're playing it too hard. No, I'm not. Let me put this comb through my hair again. I don't like books. Is this all a posture? I've never thought about it. As much as I'm like, this is a better movie. It's like, then the point of the whole movie is just like, if you hang out with gay people, you will become gay. I'm not saying it's a perfect movie.

People would have hated the movie we're describing. Well, also Sony's like, let's shave 70 million dollars off this budget if that's the premise Let's get this down to Sundance levels because we're almost just describing chasing Amy at that point Which makes it so weird that he made this movie that I have like wanted to do it I'd like to submit another change, please. Sure. Bartha. I say big lizard. Just he's just a big lizard. It's a beloved pet, not a humanoid lizard person, just a large lizard like from the zoo, essentially like a dragon or whatever. Right. But it's like they have to clean up after the lizard. Yeah. So now it's almost like bringing up baby but with an iguana or something like that.

Oh yeah. Maybe an alligator, a crocodile. How do they keep that in an apartment? That sounds like some high jang. It sounds like it's turkey time. They have to dress it up in a disguise and bring it to the hospital. But already some conflicts rather than them just walking out to the living room seeing Brian doing something and being like shut the fuck up I am stop

it's also like it could have been that Brian knew something and the federal prosecutors dirty and then all of a sudden they're in danger because they know something that they shouldn't like Waiting for that to be the reveal instead. You're just like no this was just a bad plan. Yeah It was a bad plan. Yeah. It was a bad plan enacted by idiots. Yeah. I mean, no one in this movie is smart except for, you know, Val Kilmer and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is another,

a better version of this same kind of stereotype, which is, and that's another movie written by, like, a wise-ass Gen Xer, where he's like, Shane Black is clearly like, gay people are just like magic. They're like walking encyclopedias who also get to get laid all the time, right? Like they're intelligent, they're erudite, they're like magical people.

Gilly's kind of like that too with her, with Ricky. It's like Ricky's just kind of smart and wise in a way that others can't be. Yes. Yes. And like that's its take. But here's a series of events that seemingly take place all within one calendar day in this film, okay? J.Lo's ex comes in, attempts suicide in their apartment. They take Emily de Ravan from Lost, but isn't. It's Missy Kreider.

I almost thought it was Alicia Cuthbert as well, even though I knew that would be too young. Both of those people are, I think are slightly too young. But this look, right? Yes, Missy Crider, who I think I best know from Mulholland Drive. She's in one scene of Mulholland Drive. Oh, quite a while. She comes in, attempts suicide. They get her at the hospital.

While there, Affleck goes, great place to cut off a thumb. Cut a thumb off a corpse. Go to a FedEx. Attempt to mail it. And at no point are they ever like, they don't even mention, like, do you think the fingerprint will be a problem? Ah, who's gonna check the fingerprint? Like, they're not even smart enough to foresee that that is an issue. Just like dumb screwball banter about what the right envelope size is to send someone a thumb.

Realize that JLo also has seemingly fucked the woman working behind the counter at the shipping store, then go... all of this is still daytime, daytime, daytime, daytime, daytime. Then we cut back to the apartment. I think there's maybe a drive back where they're fighting. Yes. Cut back to the apartment. She's like lotioning up her body in her bathro, in her nightgown, her satin nightgown. Well, he's in bed being like, oh, I'm Gilly, I'm Gilly. Gilly's so straight. And she basically immediately is like, you know what, you won me over. I want to try

out this penis I've heard so much about. I think she's also, she's power tripping him, right? Where it's like, if you're so good at eating pussy, why don't you fucking give it a try first? There's some version of like is this her being impressed and won over by how well he handled the thumb situation It's very unclear. It's like oh wow yeah Yeah, she is into this then it's this weird power tripping thing of her just being like gobble gobble I can't challenge you let me see this man this manilingus you've been bragging about. Heterolingus.

That is the term. I'm sorry. Because right, there's this early point where she's just like, I don't care about penises. And he's like, well, I'm great at eating pussy. And she's like, what's your strategy? And he's like, I can't really get into it. Right? He like attempts to brag about how good he is at going down on women and bails immediately. And then 40 minutes later, she's like, let me see that hetero

lingus magic. And he's like, oh, I can't, sorry. Right. And then the next morning, it's like, maybe I do like that. Like she doesn't she plays it the next morning as if like, I'm starting to fall for Gilly. Right. You are correct that that is the thrust and direction of the film. the next morning as if like, I'm starting to fall for Gilly. Right? You are correct that that is the thrust and direction of the film. When you think it would be an interesting power play thing where it's like, well, now she's on the hook and she was like, this meant nothing to me.

This was an experiment. And he's like, I'm in love. Let's not forget he thinks his penis the next morning. Oh, right. We should just see it at that point. It's it's such an objective discussion in the film. It should really just we should just be laying stuff out here. We should at least. Curious.

Yeah. Like the little Pop-Tart Ravioli. He should be running around. Probably the same VFX department did the Pop-Tart Ravioli baby from Unfrosted and Affleck's Hog and Gone Girl. Those are reused assets. It's so... Because him thinking his penis, that's from Brian, right?

That's like a nod. It's Brian saying, bless you, bless you to his penis. Brian taught him to appreciate his own penis. Fully in the pre-911 script, 911 didn't make him change his mind about any of that. Nope. Yeah, it's not like, 911 didn't make him change his mind about any of that. Nope. Yeah, it's not like the 911 happens and he's like, it's just no longer Turkey time. He starts like taking pages out.

And then basically the next morning, morning after, right? Like honeymoon glow. Lenny Veneto's like, come with me. Pacino's like, fuck you Lenny Veneto. Bullets to the brain. Eight kind of engaging minutes of Pacino doing like his kind of automatic. What you don't do is you don't buy that.

You're like all right sure yeah. He's giving you his number four combo. Yeah. Although I will say the tension of that scene does dissipate rather quickly considering that there is a dead body in a crazy man with a gun. It does. J.Lo again just uses her lesbian magic to just be like, why would you do that? Go away.

And he's like, all right. Yeah. See you later. It's my check on the mantle. I'll take it. Thank you. What's Pacino? I mean, like I said, Angels in America is this year.

Yeah. Is there, like, where is Pacino? Simone's the year before this. Right. His wife is being, his current wife is being born around now? Oh, unfortunately, thank you Mike. Sorry. I'm not horribly off.

Sorry. Pacino. How far away are we from Jack and Jill and Dunkagino? That's a great call. 2011? That's eight, seven, eight years away, yeah. Because Simone's sort of- The recruit is this year, which is him yelling at Colin Farrell like,

You're in the CIA, or are ya? I'll keep you guessing. That's what I remember of that movie. Yeah, but that movie was like a modest- It did well. That movie is one of those movies at the time where I saw it and I was like, five out of 10 if I watch it now, I'm probably like, this is like the conversation. Like, this is brilliant.

This wasn't nominated for Best Picture. I remember it being like a fun movie with eight twists, and the last twist is like, in fact, you were all in a box the whole time. But it's that thing that Tarantino always talks about of the way we used to develop movie stars is, you put the new movie star with a legendary movie star in the mentor role.

That movie just was kind of seen as like, Al Pacino is collecting a check to validate Colin Farrell, who Hollywood- Get Colin Farrell kind of like one rung up. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He shows up to the premiere of that movie with Britney Spears. Everyone's like, hold on.

Oh my God, if Al Pacino showed up with Britney Spears. But that's my memory. He shows up to the premiere of the crew where it's like Hollywood is all behind you being the next guy, shows up with Britney Spears. Everyone's like, this might be going a little too fast. Daredevil's a month later. Yeah, baby. Good times. Oh man. But yeah, when Al, when Colin and Britney were briefly together, it was like when two black holes intersect in space, or scientists were like, we will study the events for millennia. The way it impacts energy.

Like, it's just these two gigantic trains running into each other. Pacino, Gili is this year. He was in a film called Gili in 2003. Most people, I think, straight up do not know that Pacino and Walken are in this. That this movie has two Academy Award, at the time of its release. The poster billing block is Affleck, J. Lo, G. Lee, Bartha, done. They're in the opening credits. Yeah, I think Pacino was agent, might have been like a leaf in the bush. They're not in the marketing. Yeah.

The year after he did that Michael Radford, Merchant of Venice movie where he plays Shylock, which is like, you know, fairly bad. You're telling me Pac he plays Shylock, which is like, you know, fairly bad. They- You're telling me Pacino playing Shylock? It's a little heavy. Year after that is Two for the Money, which is like a wonderful garbage soup, like stupid ass fucking movie

where everyone's just like, ah, the money, right, you know, just nonsense. Pretty fun. Year after that is 88 Minutes and Ocean's 13. Oh Pretty fun. Year after that is 88 minutes and Ocean's 13. Oh, wow. Year after that is righteous kill. And then he takes three years off.

Right. And then Jack and Jill is like, oh, look, he's trying to get like he's great in that. I mean, he rocks it. He's great. He's so funny. I literally only remember Al Pacino's part. That's true for most.

Jack and Jill generally underrated, in my opinion, and in yours. But I think genuinely very locked in. He's really funny in every scene. I mean, honestly, I'll watch it again. I love seeing it so much. He's also in more of it than you would remember. I totally am only remembering the end credits, like the Dunk of Gino.

Everyone remembers that. And assumes it's like a weird cameo. The scene where he's dressed as a Hasidic man at the Lakers game in disguise, because he doesn't want anyone to see him, and then Johnny Depp starts talking to him, being like, hey, Alan, he's like, don't talk to me. Is Jared Fogle in that same scene or a different scene?

I think Jared Fogle's in a different scene. Jared Fogle and Johnny Depp are in Jack and Jill. I think there's a third cameo like that, like Mussolini or someone pops up. Spacey. Spacey. Mussolini or someone pops up. Spacing. Mussolini. Mark David Chapman.

They released him on work release just to do check. Caitlyn Jenner pre-transition, not quite as bad. There's also Shik-Chak is in it, Mackenro, Drew Carey, Regis in his final film appearance. Oh, wow. A lot of great cameos. God, McEnroe really, I feel like... You can get McEnroe with that. He just pops up anywhere.

Text. You don't even need to call him. Five Sandler movies, I want to say. He's usually funny. He's in Mr. Deeds. I think he's in anger management, unsurprisingly. Oh, yeah. They definitely are like, can you even believe who's here? It's just the gag where the Lakers camera just slowly pans in on Pacino in this outfit. Yeah.

And then it just flashes Al Pacino's name on it. It's so funny. The seamer he shows up from rehearsal for Man of La Mancha to sing the Impossible Dream and starts lancing at the rotating fan on the ceiling. It's fucking good. It's a good movie. People think we're trolling. No, it's good.

We introduced it at the Nighthawk. And I think we both thought it was terrible when it came out. And then got asked to introduce it at the Nighthawk and sat through a 35 millimeter print of it. And it was truly like, this is, we fucked ourselves. We were shitting on this and now we don't get comedies in theaters anymore.

This movie is jokes every two seconds I mean, I love Sandler and I'm just like that's the other well research book I want is just like about like the reaction to Sandler and then sort of relitigating the reaction right the return of Sandler right the Intellectualization of Sandler and like so many people just being like why do you you keep making these dumb movies? And he's like, because I like them. That was funny. His first movie. I mean, like real Happy Madison vehicle to not make one hundred million dollars since Little Nicky. Yeah. And the Netflix deal happens pretty quickly after that. He basically jumps ship.

Anyway, Julie, what else happens? Oh, I talk Pacino out of it and they decide to just leave. And they're like, we'll Pacino out of it. Um, and they decide to just leave. And they're like, we'll just get rid of Brian. We'll just get... And then Brian's like, Baywatch, Baywatch. The whole movie he's been saying, I can't go with you, I have to go to Baywatch. And it's 2003.

Yes, that was insane. That was sort of funny in Friends in 94 when, like, Chandler and Joey liked Baywatch. Right. Baywatch is even on the air? He's Baywatching Baywatch Hawaii, which was his own show. It was pretty good actually.

The Momoa use. Yeah, it was set in Hawaii. I have a small bone to pick with earlier in the movie, sorry to take us back, but when Ben Affleck leaves with Brian from his home, and he's like, oh yeah, I'll take you to the Baywatch. And then they're driving in the car and Ben Affleck fakes a phone call on a flashlight.

Yes, he does this a couple times. I believe. He's like, yeah, it's the Baywatch. Because he gets Brian into his car by being like, I'll take you to Baywatch. Brian's like, I got to do Baywatch. And Affleck's like, I got a TV. You can watch Baywatch.

He's like, no, I got to go to the Baywatch. Affleck just will, I got a TV you can watch, Baywatch. He's like, no, I got to go to the Baywatch. Affleck just will continually act like a giant flashlight is his phone and be like, oh no, Baywatch, not today. We'll do it tomorrow. What do you mean it's closed? Oh no. But the craziest thing, this is so tiny, but I was like, he picks up a flashlight from his car

and pretends that it's a walkie talkie and less than one minute later later he uses a cell phone. Yeah. I was like, why didn't you? I agree with you. Use that. I think that would make more sense. He's almost fighting Brian for not. Right. I think Breast is going for a gag. The gag just seems mean. Because he's treating this kid like he, you know, like wouldn't even understand something very basic like that. Like a flashlight is not a walkie talkie. In conclusion, uh, Julie sucks F. And there's nothing, there's no moment where the movie tried to do it like, but you know what, Brian actually taught them something along the way.

Yes. He's basically just the dilemma. And then after he's successfully bedded J. Lowe, he gives this big speech to Brian where he's like, you know what? Sometimes women act like they don't want you to be hitting on them and you gotta keep doing it. Every woman wants to fuck you and if they say otherwise, they just need a little more finessing.

And then the one moment where he sort of has any emotional connection to Brian is when he watches Brian sort of use his moves, in quotes, on a background actor on the Baywatch set that he's just wandered onto. They've just wandered onto. And G-Leon like fucking like grins and nods and gives him a like, that'll do pig.

It's so crazy. It really is just like, you know, the trope of like, wow, this like, you know, the trope of like, wow, this like, you know, intellectually disabled person, like has, you know, like they've, they've taught us something like they have some magical quality. Yes, of course. There's a purity to their worldview that actually made us see something else differently. Absolutely not.

None of that. None of that. And it's like that in itself is like kind of offensive because it's just like, can you even believe that they have thoughts? And it's just like, yes, I can. I can believe that they have thoughts and And it's just like, yes, I can. I can believe that they have thoughts and opinions and, you know, are people. But it's like the fact that you don't even do that

is like a level of, it's just so baffling. It's like, what did you think you were doing? And like, were you even thinking of that or was it as mean-spirited? It's just like, it'll be funny if... In a way where David is always complaining, and I back him up in this complaint every time we see a trailer for a new Big star studded straight to streaming comedy David's first comment is why do all of these have to be about guns? Right once Jen has written

Of course, I Do try to limit guns Where people have guns. I feel like they're like, what's the hook of this trailer and the twist is someone takes a gun out. It's like a secret agent. You know, nobody knows, but actually she works for the mob. Whatever. Or terrorists are attacking, quote unquote. Now we've got it. Now the wedding is the action wedding.

So much in the same way that it's like this movie drives you so insane that you're like, why isn't Justin Barth teaching them a lesson? Why aren't they doing the thing I hate in other movies? I'm like, why isn't this an action comedy? Why the fuck is Martin Brest making this movie in the world of crime and not having any action happen? And also like falling in love with sort of like the dinginess of LA or whatever. And it's like, falling in love with sort of, like, the dinginess of LA or whatever.

And it's like, yeah, show us that. Get out on the streets! It is pretty crazy, yeah, that Breast is like, yeah, you know, I really wanted to dig in with downtown LA. You don't see anything. You're just, you're in an apartment. There's no sense of the neighborhood. This horrible apartment complex facing a shitty communal pool is, like, the view of this movie.

I feel like I honestly have never had... This is a big statement, but I'll stick with it. I've started it. I don't think I've ever had, like, more of a drop-off within five minutes of a movie in terms of excitement to watch it, where I just was like, you know, when I put this on, I was sort of like, okay, I remember watching it at a sleepover that my main memory was that everyone

was mad at me that I made us rent it, because it was boring and it sucked. Iover that my main memory was that everyone was mad at me that I made us rented because it was boring. It was boring and it sucked. I don't remember really anything beyond that. And so I was watching it and I was like, OK, I totally forgot this is an L.A. movie. I love L.A. movies, especially early aughts L.A. because I moved to L.A. in 2010. So I was like, I like seeing sort of like what was there like that was kind of changing right when I got there and like, yeah, very entourage. And so I was like, oh shit, this is cool. Like, regardless of how bad the movie is, I'm going to see like cool L.A., like dingy L.A. Yes. And the fact that they just put it in a frickin Vanderpump rules apartment, like vertical blinds, gray carpet, just like, and here's where we stay. And my point of the pool is like,

you're not even gonna put them in an apartment with a view of the fucking beach or whatever? Of anything. Anything. A balcony that looks onto anything that you could sit out on. Bress said, like, he appreciated the challenge of like, no, there's nothing in the apartment.

Like, what can we do to make it less interesting? What is the movie? Was it something we watched for the podcast recently where a character has, like, the worst apartment you've ever seen and the view is of the highway? Do you remember what I'm talking about? I'm already laughing. I'm like, this sounds great.

No, I don't. Where it's like halfway through, you go to the character's apartment and they have, like, a big big huge picture window and they literally live Like on the freeway this sounds funny And I just the filmmaker talking about like we built the house there because we felt like it was so indicative of like the characters Viewpoint cannot remember what it is for the life of me now Someone will yell it at us and it will fucking... But I'm like... Action hero.

Yes, thank you. That's what it is, right? Jack Slater's apartment. Where it's like totally, right, exactly. It's totally jokey, worst apartment ever. Right, and that's a movie where people ding it and McTiernan dings it himself for like, I didn't trust the comedy, I didn't know how to commit to it, whatever. But you're like, that's the successful version of this joke versus what this movie doesn't

do which is like, there seems to be a deliberateness to how unappealing this all looks. You could own the dinginess of this fucking apartment complex. It's just nothing. Yes. Instead. Yes. Gila should be gay.

Gila should be gay. That would be incredible. That would honestly make the movie a hundred times better. Just right at the end, he's like, I think I am gay. Actually, I do love penises a lot. It would also make it so much more fascinating as a cultural object where you're like this movie where J.Lo and Ben Affleck fell in love

about two people realizing that they are not. They are both gay. They have to be clear, we can like, they have not much chemistry in this movie. No. Again, the movie's not giving them much. Yes. Then it is. And it is giving them turkey time.

It is. Gobble gobble. But yeah, it is like there. You don't watch this movie and go like, I bet they had a 20 year on off thing. Sorry. No, I don't know if this is a productive line of conversation. What were you going to say, Jen? I'm not going to forget my point.

I mean, I was just going to say that I feel like part of the reason that their chemistry is so bad is that J.Lo's character is so stupid and insane and not believable. So you're just sort of like, yeah, no, Ben Affleck is good. His character is not intelligent. Yes, yes, yes. No, they're both like... And the... But she's just not believable. It's like a complete miscast, I want to say, but also... But my contention for her performance working a little more than his, just in my eyes... Wow.

...is that I feel like she's playing the insane version of what she had successfully nailed. Like, she's playing, like, the worst version of the out-of-sight character, right? Uh-huh. Like, this was her movie star version of the out of sight character, right? Like this was her movie star persona basically that she had honed, like twisted into demented areas. But it's close enough to home base that you're like, this is within her, she's in the pocket

and then everything she actually has to do in this character is insane. But there is a level of comfort ease to which she does it that probably makes it feel more insane when she's so casually is like, gobble gobble, it's turkey time. Yeah. Versus Affleck's like really trying to get his hands around it. Right. He's really trying to do something. I get what you're saying, where that gives it some sort of like metatextual power. I guess I feel like we just should have.

I think we really needed to see her beat somebody up. Yeah, but then I go back to, why is this not an action comedy? Why do they not get into fucking conflicts? Why are there not guys coming after them that they have to fight off? Why aren't there car traces in this? These are the things that Breast is good at, weirdly.

It's literally a UCB show level like plot development to be like, I got a phone call. We got a cut off his thumb. What I was going to say. Uh-huh. Please. Why does she say it's turkey time? Gobble gobble. Is that has anyone ever equated? She's referring to Cunn Cuddlingus to turkey. Yeah, but why are we going to turkey?

It's not Thanksgiving. It's backwards. She's thinking of eating. You're eating pussy, not to be so vulgar. What else is a word for eating gobbling? And what else makes a gobbling noise? A turkey. So it's turkey time, Gobble, gobble.

That's my read on it. And I think Batman says he's not wearing hockey pads, not pants. This is why he's a film critic. Shut the fuck up. It is definitely not. The thing where fans do is they take

one of your quotes. Yeah, but then they say really insightful stuff. The Atlantic. That is a perfect. Photoshopped as a pull quote over the poster. Perfect pull quote. I just feel like why wouldn't you say like it's dinner time?

Yeah. Or like I'm ringing the dinner bell. Yeah. Or like time to chow down any other number. Mangia. Yeah, she's Italian. Mangia. In this interview with this 15 year old Irish kid that I highly recommend everyone watch,

where Martin Bress comes off as a real mensch, and is perhaps, as sort of a postscript to this episode, a nicer note to end on, where you're like, Martin Bress seems pretty happy and fulfilled, and whatever, right? He doesn't seem bitter about this movie as much as it still clearly is like a great regret of his. He talks about how he thinks he has a fairly invisible style and how what he really is interested in in filmmaking is like being able to construct everything using all the tools of filmmaking and narrative and performance and humor and emotion whatever to make the audience feel very specific things. He talks about the development of movies like he is a sculptor and he said to this kid who he's trying to give like

you know actionable advice to on how he developed his skill set. He's like, this might sound crazy, but when I was like in my 20s, I would, as if I was an actor, sit at home alone in my apartment and try to make myself feel certain emotions very intensely and then try to sort of then deconstruct it. How did I get to that point? What are things that make people feel ways?

And he's like, when I was developing scripts, I'm going through every scene, every line, and then I'm thinking about it through performance and where I'm placing the camera in the edit about I love being able to bring the audience on a very intentional journey. None of that is fucking felt in this movie. I watch it, I'm like, I don't know what I'm supposed to feel. It makes sense as some sort of like weird. He got on his own wavelength and was like, I'm just feeling shit out. But he talks about it like every film I made, every choice is trying to like get you to this point. And then it's what you said. It's like the gobble gobble logic of like he's trying to sort of deconstruct

a thing that doesn't make sense to begin with. Right. It's just a collection of thoughts, kind of like it's just sort of deconstruct a thing that doesn't make sense to begin with. Right, it's just a collection of thoughts, kind of. Like, it's just sort of like, like the fact that J. Lo is like really into like Chinese war philosophy and like Muay Thai, but she's lying. I, it's just like all, everything is, yeah, there's no sum of its parts.

It's just like, what were you trying to do? Right. And reading the script does not make it any more clear. What if the answer was just Gilly? Like, ask me what are you trying to do with the movie? What are you trying to make with the film, Shelly? Honestly, I'll be thinking about that. If that was his goal, I cannot deny that he succeeded. Why did she say it's turkey time, Goggle, gobble, gobble.

Because it's Glee. Yeah. The Tarantino thing makes a lot of sense. I didn't think of that. This is like like the initial Tarantino wave comes in the 90s. Right. And then like this is like the facts of the facts of it. Like it's like some deformed creature that's like, I'm trying to do pulp fiction over here. It's just like, let it die.

Runoff copycat shit has like run its course by this point. And this is the same year that Kill Bill Volume One comes out after like a Tarantino hiatus. Right. That felt like he's like something new. It's not gangsters in LA. Mix it up. And also everyone's kind of getting tired of my whole thing and everyone else ripping me off. And I need to back off for a little bit.

But this is kind of like old guy out of touch. It's a little left. It's so out of touch. The comedy is just like, I guess there was a time where this was acceptable maybe, but whoa, that was a long time ago. It's unbelievable. It's crazy.

It's also like the script script reading the script really threw me because it's exactly what the movie is. Yes. And so like and then, yeah, hearing people talk about like, oh, he's not a screenwriter. And it's just like it's such an interesting and it just happens all the time where it's just like people know that something is doomed from the jump and they just hope that they are wrong and they don't want to be the one to say it and like rain on the parade You can't just be like can we just stop this doesn't seem like it's gonna be good You can't just be like sorry Marty. What is the movie like it sucks? I think I'm gonna anonymize this I read a script about a year ago

For an upcoming film from a director we've covered on the past in this podcast So a film we will someday do an episode on and Someone who has made some of my favorite films and some films that I think are terrible, right? Was a classic blank check arc We've covered on the show much like Martin Bresk and I was reading the script and I'm like cracking it open I'm like I want him to be back. I want this to be the comeback, right? Let me say I want them to be back I'm gonna try to make this more vague. I think everyone's probably going to be able to guess who this is, right?

And I'm reading it and I'm like, the pockets that are really working. I can see it. Some stretches, nothing's like totally bumping, but there's certain things where I'm like, are you losing it, this and that? And I'm reading it and I'm saying like, okay, did his best movies read like this on paper? And then the final step of the process is what he discovers on set, if he casts it right, if he edits it right. Or did his worst movies read like this on

paper? There was enough potential there that you got the big stars attached, and then you just lost it. And G. Lee is one of those things where you're just like, what? I, I, it doesn't feel like there is anything on paper that makes sense for anyone to sign on for outside of this guy has hit a home run a couple times in the past. But he's coming off of a humongous flop. He's coming off a movie that should have made everyone question him more. And even if in theory he's going to his safety genre,

then they should have gone like, hey Marty, you know what? Actually before we start filming, before we start paying actors $12 million, let's like go through the development to make this more like the movies that people like of yours. That's the moment for Brest to be like, I quit or I concede. Right. I know that's what I'm like.

I do know that is for real, the original script that that's not like so. We should. Right. We don't know. No, no. Right. Like we were given this script by somebody and it's clearly an earlier draft and it is longer. But I think by all accounts it's like... And it has the ending that it was spoken of. This is like one of the drafts that was read by Columbia Pictures where they were like, yes, or a revolution who's releasing it through Columbia. Sony is their distributor.

Right. And that they're sending out to agents. Like, if not this draft specifically, one of the ones in this period. I know, because I'm just like, when would he say was the beginning of the studio involvement and overreach and stuff? Because it's just sort of like... But it also doesn't seem like he would take notes at a script level if his whole thing isn't he's like... I feel like it was probably more after the shooting of the film.

Which is then even crazier because I'm like, people reading it and yeah, signing on and like Adam Brody being like, I like the script. It's just like, what did you like? And the only meddling I'm sensing is the score and the very, very ending. Cutting out his weird ending and putting on the J.Lo actually loves him anyway.

She circles back. I mean, it's so funny that like she clearly leaves the movie and is like, this is the end of my character. And then four minutes later, I'm back. I changed my mind. Happy ending. Ben Affleck loved the New York Times headline on the Julie box office.

JLo and Ben Affleck finally get some privacy. It is funny. He calls it a bombaroonie, the Ishtar of our time. If you're going to do a bomb, do nothing small. You know what I mean? He says it's my favorite Affleck quote from that fucking fabled Damon interview.

Damon says, I remember you calling me after that weekend and saying my career is in the worst place it could possibly be. I can sell magazines, but not movie tickets. Oh, no. Yeah. But it's like, it's such a good encapsulation of the weird, like, golden cage

Yes. Affleck found himself in where it's like, this is one of the most famous men in the world and no one likes him at the thing he does. Affleck said the film tested around a 28, which to be clear for our listeners, is out of 100. It's not a desired number. Was that the breast cut or the post-medle? He just says, we knew the movie was a dog. It was testing at like 28. People soundly rejected the picture.

They sat through it and said, we have spoken and we hate it. It's garbage. I don't think she would have worked with other actors. It just would have failed more quietly, which is probably true. When was it released? It was released on August 1st, 2003. So they were dumping it. But also as much as they could have dumped it. Like you released that the last week of August or the first week of September.

They were still like, is there any chance the fucking like tabloid obsession with these two gets us a little money? I do want to just- And then just bail. Before we do the box office game, a couple other things, Affleck does credit working alongside Marnie Brest as the best directing school he ever got.

He says like, you know, he taught me how to help an actor, right? Like he's brilliant, he's so gifted. He's one of the first people he thanked when he won his Oscar for Argo, which was kind of an amazing little moment. I think he forgot to thank Jennifer Garner, right? Who was that, I think?

The Mardi Bress. Oh no, he said it was work, being married. Oh, that's what he did, right, right, right. It's tough work. He forgot to thank Gwyneth Paltrow, or Gwyneth Paltrow forgot to thank him when she was. Yes, and he was in the audience. And like, Hilary Stank definitely forgot to thank Chad Lowe.

I remember that one. Everyone made fun of her for that. I mean, that's a whole other part of the Benifer thing is that like, he's coming off of years of the Paltrow-Athlick relationship being so hot, and she's coming off of Diddy to Chris Judd to him, and then goes straight back to Mark Anthony. Yeah, pretty much.

Yeah. And he obviously goes right to Jennifer Garner after this right the other actress he co-starred with in 2003 right now He just has to marry Uma Thurman. He's done the hat-trick Pacino says it wasn't doing the role wasn't a favor. Although I would have done it just as a favor Favors you don't usually get paid two million dollars for two days at work or whatever the fuck He says I trust him to make a good movie, which he does. He just missed with it. Sometimes you miss it the wrong time.

But she knows very nice about everything. Read the test screenings and the meddling. Roth basically apparently started digging him final cut. Joe Roth gives breast final cut. But after making him shoot. Well, no, it tests so fucking abysmally that Roth is like, we have to do something. So he leans on Breast to make cuts and do reshoots. Which is kind of what that Breast quote is saying.

Breast is like, I capitulated. And I understand why he's capitulating because the film is probably testing very poorly and everyone's panicking. Right, and what are you gonna do, walk away and let them... Well, it's, quote-unquote, fix it. It's honestly what we hear a lot now from like the huge Behemoth franchise movie. and everyone's panicking. Right, and what are you gonna do? Walk away and let them quote unquote fix it? It's honestly what we hear a lot now

from the huge Behemoth franchise movies, especially when they have, not like Martin Brest, a sort of less tested second time filmmaker who gets this big job, and they make their cut, and the studio will say, okay, we don't like this, here's the deal. Either we're gonna tell you how you fix this and you follow our orders, or we hire someone else to do it. We'll never credit them.

We won't shit talk you to the press, but you only get to sit in the director's chair if you take our notes now. And it's like, that's sort of what they did to breast. It sounds like. Breast claims. I wonder if a movie has ever been changed so much. I'm sure it has in the history of Hollywood, but it changed so radically. That is insane when you read the script. I know.

I know. But nonetheless, he says, I can't escape blame. I literally don't remember the movie that was released because it wasn't underneath it in the way it was under the hood of all my other movies. It's a bloody mess that deserved its excruciation I as we said he refers to it as the G movie the less said the better Hey, okay. So this is Griffin and David and Ben from a couple weeks after we recorded the episode D'Angelo is not here There's a thing

I forgot to mention in the original record that I just need to for posterity say and get you guys reacting to okay I was talking about how the shooting script or the 2001 draft was more similar to the finished film than a lot of the stories I had heard about Brest saying it was a wildly different movie, right? There was one major plot convergence in the script from the finished film that I forgot to mention, which is that it turns out that J. Lo is not actually who she's pretending to be, does not work for the mafia, is the lover of the suicidal girlfriend who is the one who's supposed to be doing her job, and JLo has stolen her identity. That is stirring some memory in my brain. And is basically gaslighting,

saying like, I don't know who she is, she's crazy, she's trying to kill herself. She was supposed to be a fake hitman or whatever. So at the end of the movie, she's like to Affleck, like, by the way, I am gay. I'm not a hit man. But then she leaves the movie. That was that makes more and less sense at the same time. Well, it's the problem of the movies. The final movie is just like she's a hit man. You're like, she is. And I'm like, I don't know who cares.

But in that version of the movie, you You're like but that scene with the fucking ex-girlfriend is so bizarre with the Makes more sense if she's fucking her over but then also why is she doing that? Anyway, I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that great, but we're not gonna record our horizon pickup right now No, we'll do that later. Okay, cool back to the episode We're not going to record our Horizon pickup right now? No, we'll do that later. OK, cool. Back to the episode. The film came out August 1st, 2003, Griffin.

It's opening at number eight at the box office, which I want to be clear for our listeners, this is my expert opinion, is lower than you would hope for. With 3.7 million opening weekend. So it's eighth. So not first. Now first is a comedy, and it's new this week. In August. A comedy sequel.

2003. It's not American Wedding, is it? It is American Wedding. Oh, really? Yes. What if there was a wedding involving the people from American Pie? What if there were pubes on a cake and people ate it? I don't think I've ever seen American wedding. I watched them all.

The pubes on the wedding cake, I just immediately had like a visceral like, yes, I've seen that. Whose pubes? Someone gives Jim the recommendation that he should manscape for the first time before his wedding night. Oh, yes. So he shaves his cubes and then throws the shavings, the trimmings out the window and they land on the cake, which is walking by and you cut to elderly relatives

being like, it's kind of tangy or whatever. That was like the big fucking trailer joke. It gets to the point where it's like these movies were like, how do we reverse engineer? What can get put in what? Right, yeah. What's the trailer? Aaron Diffler fucks Eugene Levy's mom in the movie.

And the bit is that he wants to fuck January Jones, who I believe is Allison Hannigan's sister. It's a very early January Jones performance. Like her like first major role. Just like out cold. Wait, is he in Out Cold or you're... She's in Just Married? Am I wrong about this?

Because she was dating Kutcher for a while. Let's look up January Jones. The wonderful American actress January Jones is in... Hmm, Full Frontal, the Soderbergh movie. Huh. She's in The Glass House, that thriller. She's movie. Huh. She's in the glass house. That thrill. She's in bandits. She's in taboo. That's not a thing. Anger management she's in.

Anger management. Right. This is 2003. Love Actually. Yeah. Right. That's it. Maybe Love Actually is what I'm thinking of. It's a... She's one of the three girls with Chris Marshall,

who's being like, on British. And they're like, we're so fucking horny for you. Like, get in a cab with us right now. It's Elisha Cuthbert, her, the third person. It's the woman from... Is it Jane Elizabeth? Am I wrong? I think it's the woman that I only know her from Head Over Heels.

It's Ivana Milisevich. She was like a hot Russian who was in like... She is in Head Over Heels. Yeah. She was like a hot Russian who was in like... She is in Head Over Heels. Yeah. She's like a hot model. That is a crazy... Had the Monica Potter, Freddie Prinze Jr. rom-com? Yeah. That's like kind of rear windows. He lives next to models, but then is he like a secret agent

or something? There's some twist. He's an FBI agent. Yeah. I just want to finish saying very quickly, the sweat he set up in American Wedding is January Jones is like, Stifler, you finally convinced me. I want to fuck you. Meet me in the equipment closet of the hotel.

The darkest room in the house. And then he's like, great. And he's like running to get there. I bet Sean William Scott sells that really well. And I feel like the grandma's doing something embarrassing So Eugene Levy's like mom just a stand in this closet for five minutes And then Shawn William Scott just walks in starts fucking her in the dark and like five minutes later January Jones knocks on the door opens it up is like Stiffler and then you see Eugene Levy's mom and she's like don't stop

And is American wedding two or three? Three. Two has the really great premise of they go to a beach house. That's the entire premise of two. It's just the summer. What if we made another one? It's just like they all go to a beach house. Why?

I don't know. It's the summertime. Gotta get to a beach house. And then that's it. American wedding is a few years on, although not really. No, they're pretty real-time. It's two years later and Biggs is getting married to Hannigan. And then that's it. American Wedding is a few years on, although not really. No, they're pretty real-time. It's two years later and Biggs is getting married to Hannigan.

And Chris Klein has dropped out of the friend group. Klein's not even in it. The others are there. Everyone else is there. What is he doing? Rollerball. I mean, yeah, rollerball. Or whatever. Stifler at this point is basically the co-lead of the film obviously right and then reunion is I think supposed to be their 10-year reunion

Even though it's 15 years later. It's all no. It's only it's only nine years after American Wedding and it is there 13 years after their graduation Yeah, that's my favorite year. And Oz is back, Klein is back. Oh, he's back big time. They got everyone back. In a mid-credits scene, Jim's dad gets fellatio from Stifler's mom in a movie theater.

That's the last sentence on the Wikipedia credits. Yeah, it's basically like Captain America catching Thor's hammer. It's like, isn't this what we've been building up to? They literally, it's kinda like Stifler accidentally fucking Jim's dad's mom. But he walks into a room and he's like, oh, I'm sorry, I think I was supposed to be in a different room. And then Ben's pointing at the time. Jim's dad is like, I'm Jim's dad. And she goes, I'm

Stifler's mom. They introduce themselves solely by. I do love that Eugene Levy was like, I'll be in all of them. Don't watch some interview with him recently where he's like, maybe I did too many, but the money was there. What's number two at the box office? It's a sequel. It opens number one fairly strong the week before, and it is going to make it all the way to $111 million. It's the third in a kids franchise.

Spikid? It is Spikid. It is Spikid. Game over. Good job, Jen. Great call. Two sort of asked for threequals at the top two here where it's kind of like, do you want a third American Pie movie?

People are like, I suppose. You know what I mean? Made automatic money. Right. You want another Spikids? Yeah, I mean, I gotta get out of the house like his three was up from two It was because it had the 3d thing and sliced the loans in it before there was even a surcharge Just the gimmick was exciting to people. It's red blue Yeah, the 3d

I Remembered spy kids 3d lacking the juice to having some fun and by three you're kind of like, everyone's getting a little too old for this. Yeah, I think we're just like a gonzo masterpiece. I think three is insane. Maybe we should do them. I'd like to. Look, all I'm gonna say is I shelled out some good money on eBay

for the 3D Blu-ray of Spy Kids 3D, just in case you ever made such a statement. Wow. Number three at the box office. Number three at the box office. Number three at the box office. It's the biggest hit of the summer. The biggest hit of the summer would be Pirates of the Caribbean, Curse of the Black Pearl.

Oh wow, yeah. That people were happy to see. Oh, I saw that so many times in theaters. So did I. I loved it. I think I saw it three or four times. People loved it. Talk about a great score. John Powell could never.

But then Zimmer doesn't do that one, right? He doesn't. that one, right? Oh, it's not Zimmer? It's Klaus Bedelt. I always love to tell people this. One of Zimmer's, you know, protegees, right? He basically just works for them. He just like, tossed it off to one of my guys.

Right, and then when that movie hits Zimmer, he's like, Get out of the fucking way! Oh my god. So he grabs it back after that point. That's incredible. And as I've said before in this podcast, Zimmer's scores for the two pirate sequels are some of the greatest work he ever did.

They're absolutely incredible. Yes. Yes, they're so fucking good. What's also one of those things where like Captain Jack doesn't have a theme in the first movie and he watches it and is like, oh, they never bothered to. He gives Jack Sparrow an amazing thing.

One of the great characters, Jack Sparrow, nothing weird ever came out of that whole phenomenon. Number four at the box office is going to be a best picture nominee this year. It's based on a best seller. C. Biscuit. Because this is coming off of, I referenced this the weekend before this at the time broke a record. It was the first time the top five movies at the box office all made over 20 million dollars. Whoa. Just as an interesting counterpoint to where we are today, 21 years later, it was like, there's room for everybody. So I remember now that you've pinned Spy Kids 3D, I remember the other things that would have been

in that previous top five. Seabiscuit. Seabiscuit. It's fun. A big hit? Yeah. Never seen it. Seabiscuit. I've never seen it.

You know why? It was illegal to watch that movie after like 2004. Yeah, it was like, now, there's nothing even wrong with it, but we're just not gonna talk about it. You've never seen it? You know why? It was illegal to watch that movie after like 2004. It was like, now, there's nothing even wrong with it, but we're just not going to talk about it anymore. I was like, I feel like I get it. Yeah. He's a horse. He wins the race.

The DVDs that people bought literally crumbled on like January 1st, 2005. It's like Leprechaun gold. Number five at the box office is a sequel, an action film, and it got a third film many years later, and then a fourth film. It's Bad Boys 2. Yeah. Wow. The most vulgar film ever made.

Yeah. Yeah. A truly exceptional work, but it is horrifying to watch. It is so funny to watch the response, the split of people's feelings about the two Adil and Belal Bad Boys movies, which you and I both love But people had a great time Oh great time so good people are either like oh, it's nice that like they came in and figured out a more humanist way Like viewpoint for these movies and then some people are like the second bad boys cares about any aspect of humanity

We've gone astray in this franchise But the whole thing is like bad boys cares about any aspect of humanity. We've gone astray in this franchise. Well, but the whole thing is like bad boys one, it's pure nihilism. That boys one is not in my opinion, a really good movie, but it's got like just, you're just seeing like the beginning of whale, you're seeing Bay starting to figure things out, all that stuff. Kind of on fire.

Bad boys two is just them all coming back together and being like, right, what if we just made the most like ridiculous shit of all time, right? With nothing to do with anything. And then those two movies are handed to bad boys three being like, can you cook kind of a fast and furious see like movie about guys getting older and do family is what you make of it. Very wisely recognize that like, if you codify this into a quote unquote

meaningful mythology There is an audience of people who grew up on these movies who will be ready to be like yes Reggie is important. Reggie rocks. Reggie rocks. I fucking love Reggie. Reggie rules. We saw that film together although not together. Separately. We were sitting in separate seats. Yes We went with Alex and I went with Alex. Your friend Alex. And we sat opposite sides of the same room. When I went to the bathroom, I recognized. The audience's reaction to Reggie was, you know, off the scale, screaming and cheering. Everyone else I have spoken to who saw that movie in theaters has described

the reaction their audience has had to Reggie as one million times what we experienced. And for us, it was like the foundations of the Alma Drafthouse. And we were seeing it like 11 on a Tuesday or whatever. It was like not packed. I think like weekend two, maybe three, and it was like a very packed theater and people lost their minds.

Reggie Maddix. For Reggie and for the big white gator. Oh my God. Ben, you still haven't seen it, right? Oh, so sorry. I'm so sorry. I mean, you were saying we told him there's gators. We've spoiled it for him, but you wanted more gators out of G. Lee. Yeah, that's true. Oh yeah. You wanted a gator in G. Lee. Yeah. You'll love that.

But I grew I grew up going to that kind of the real place Gatorland, Florida. Oh, really? My grandparents live nearby. Oh, wow. Back in the 90s when it was just like, I don't know, we just get a bunch of gators together, charge people 20 bucks a head, see what happens. They had to go. Where a Florida man would stick his head inside the mouth of a gator.

Hey Ben. It sticks with you. Ben, I just wanna quickly. Jesus, we've been doing it all the time. Ben, I just wanna alert you. All right, number six of the box office, Lara Croft, Tomb Raider, The Cradle of Life, a flop. Number seven of the box office, Finding Nemo,

the other giant hit of the summer. Number eight of the box office, some sort of film called Gigli, don't know what that is. Number nine, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, another flop. And number 10, Terminator 3, Rise of the Machines, a sort of like soft hit, yet underwhelming. Yeah. Bend it like Beckham is growing and doing well down in this sort of, you know, 12

range. Chris Keir Knightley was the sexiest tomboy. I can't believe that was the same summer as. 2003. How old were you? 15, 14? I was. Since you went to college with my wife, I know your exact age. Yes.

It was the summer after my freshman year of high school. So yeah, 15. I was 17. I was like, I have essentially. Yes. It was the summer after my freshman year of high school. So yeah, 15. I was 17. I was like, I have agency. I have an allowance. I think I had a job. I'm seeing every single fucking movie that exists. And Keira Knightley that same summer was also 17, I believe.

She was 17. She was my exact age. Yeah. Because it was like in Britain where I lived, you know, it was like, she's doing her A levels and being in Bended Like Becca. And I'm like, I's doing her A levels and being in Bended Like Beckham. I'm like, I'm also doing my A levels and seeing Bended Like Beckham. Right, but yeah, 2003 US release of Pirates,

Bended Like Beckham and Love Actually. Yeah, she just did that. That's true. And she was 17 years old. She's such bizarre casting in Love Actually. Why is she getting married to anybody? Insane. She's a child. Also, Keira Knightley just reminded me, because of course I iconically think of that picture of her from the red carpet. I think it's the Pirates premiere where she's wearing the lowest cut jeans you've ever seen in your life and the most cropped shirt.

Most insane jeans. It looks like they're drawn on because you're like, no way could her body support these. Could they be staying? Yes. It's like her abs are so long. If you were trying to dress up as 2003 for Halloween, this is the costume you would put on. Or J.Lo's costume when she first walked in, and G. Lee, I was like, these jeans! Well, it looks like somebody...

You know that thing where Lenny Kravitz is wearing the big scarf, and then people have made it even bigger for comic effect? It looks like someone just kind of clicked and dragged her torso to make it longer. Yeah. My ranking of Martin Brest's films, Griffin, this is the only other thing I feel like we need to do,

is as follows. Or would you like to go first? No, you go first. I'm curious. Number one, Midnight Run. Number two, Beverly Hills Cop. Number three, Going in Style. I actually debated two and three. That's how much I liked Going in Style.

Number four, I'm gonna have Meet Joe Black. Over number five, Hot Tomorrows. I debated that too. Oh, sure. Yeah, Mervin five Hot Tomorrow's. I debated that too. Oh sure. Yeah, Merleau's Hot Tomorrow's. Yeah. Because Hot Tomorrow's may be actually more functional in some ways as a movie. I kind of like the swing of Meet Joe Black more. Number six, comfortably at six, Scent of a Woman. And bottom feeding is Julie. I'm really tempted to put Scent of a Woman last. Even though it feels a little bit intellectually dishonest.

I don't think there's really an argument for that. My list is very similar. Men I Run is number one. I think I do put Going in Style above Beverly Hills Cop because it really grew for me on this watch. You think Going in Style, Jen? I have not. Check it out. It's fucking good. But Beverly Hills Cop is like kind of one of my ultimate comfort food movies and I love and I think it's like a fucking

does not get enough credit as So many people got in touch with me being like I didn't realize that movie was good and I'm like, yeah man breast Tells a very funny story if he was like and perhaps this is ominous But he was like I do listen to podcasts when people talk about my work Hey Marty, and he was like I was listening to a podcast with a bunch of like, esteemed critics at a legitimate outlet who were talking about how much they love Beverly Hills Cop for like an hour and how perfect every detail was in it. And then one of them went, and this movie was directed by Martin Brest and someone said, well, the less said about him, the better. Oh no. And he was like, you can't credit me for the things you liked about the movie.

And I do think because that movie is so much Eddie Murphy and then even Bruckheimer behind that, people fail to connect. And I think fully give him credit for what he did on that film that was very skillful. I agree with you. I put me Joe Black above Hot Tomorrow's. And then I guess I do have to do S of a woman then Glee. The difference is that like I hate scent of a woman versus Glee I think is a calamity. You feel pity for it. Right.

Yeah. It's more it's like there's something interesting about it because it's such a myth. I have no ire for it though. Right. I got a little ire. I got no ire. I just feel so sad for him. I'm like he really was like he tried to do something he sort of was lost from the get-go. I just feel so sad for him. I'm like, he really was like, he tried to do something.

He sort of was lost from the get-go. I can't defend it at all. No. Ebert like did not give this movie a good review, but was on the upper end of reviews. Yes, but Ebert and Jennifer Lopez, it is a long and tortured history. He refused to give her movies bad reviews.

She could be in a movie called Fuck Roger Ebert and he'd be like, she's still sizzling in this one. Like he could not help himself. I, God bless him. Like I always respected it that you would see like what do you get the sell four stars? I mean, that's a famous review of course, where he supposedly saw a different kind of the movie.

That's another sleepover I ruined. I made us rent this panel. That will fuck up a sleepover. That would be disturbing. Like will fuck up a sleepover. That movie is disturbing. Like he gave Angel Eyes three stars. He gave Made in Manhattan three stars. He gave an Unfinished Life three stars. Like he gave Jersey Girl three and a half stars.

He had a crush on her. Yeah. He gave G. Lee two and a half. I was wrong. The quote I was thinking of actually wasn't Ebert, was Joel Siegel on Good Morning America. He gave it a D but I do think this perfectly describes how I view this film. To qualify as a historic failure a film needs a measure of pretension and all

G. Lee ever wanted to be was a romantic comedy. Sure it's not... Wait I'm sorry. Okay yeah go ahead. What it is is a dreadful romantic comedy. And I'm like, it is maybe the worst romantic comedy ever made in a certain way. Yeah.

But there is something to how unpretentious it is. Yeah. That makes it hard for me to hate it. Versus the sense of a woman, which I think is very impressed with itself. I would say this film does have a lick of pretension to its whole like, let's wander into the gender debate or what, you know what I mean? Like it's like monologuing.

It is also like to start from a place of like, I want the challenge of like a very uninteresting, visually bland nothingness. And a guy who's a main character you're going to hate. Yeah. Like when, anytime you start from, like, I'm gonna make a movie because, like, XYZ, and it's not just like, I'm gonna make a movie because I have this story that I really like.

Just like, then you're off to a really bad start. I agree. That haven't been said. Breast, we've wanted to do him forever. I'm so glad we did. What a fucking insane arc. Basically, four movies that I think are some degree of great. Or let's say four movies I like unabashedly. If you include Hot Tomorrow's in there,

which I feel like is kind of a rough draft with Amazing Pockets. Four and a half, let's say. Yeah, and then two movies that are outright calamities in my mind. David's nodding vigorously. Nod. Gilly.

Yeah. Next up on the podcast is Kevin Costner You hear that it's the sound of the West Whispering in agreement. You mad? I can't wait until you guys can do Jerry Seinfeld B-movie unfrosted D'Angelo here's a pitch That I've been I've been working on a little bit recently because I watched these other two for the first time. You do the cinema of quote Seinfeld as a series.

Sour grapes. Sour grapes, clear history, B-movie, unfrosted. Wow. If you want to go hug wild, you add the Larry Charles movies in there, but I think the Larry David Seinfeld. Larry Charles has his own career. Yeah. Which is the best of those four movies?

I think... I can confidently say, I think it's B-movie. I was gonna say it's B-movie too. I think it's because B-movie is also just like culturally insane. It had a strange legacy as opposed to the non-legacy of the Larry David movies. Like the fact that Jerry Seinfeld was like, this is my opus. Like I will go on 30 Rock specifically to advertise B-movie.

I care about this so much. Good episode, Seinfeld. And Larry David's two movies are him being like, I want to stop doing Seinfeld and I want to stop doing Curb Your Enthusiasm. And both of them feel like stretched out versions of plot lines that would have fit into either one of those shows they both have things that are funny in them, but are Disasters I'd say close to both anyway Kevin Costner will be covering waterworld on patreon We're doing Kevin Costner guys, so So, yeah, have fun with it.

Are you going to go to the Waterworld stunt show? I've gone before. We discussed it. Really great. I feel like you should do just an episode on that. I agree. We discussed it. Can't get this man on a plane. Yeah, fair amount in the West Waterworld episode.

As you may or may not know, Kevin Costner has recently released a passion project called Horizon in American Saga that he's sinking all his money into because he wants to tell stories slash maybe bankrupt himself before a divorce hearing we can't tell maybe both unclear who knows and that if that is not a blank check project what is yeah and so we're talking about his short but interesting directorial career yeah so what a world on patreon But we'll be talking dances of wolves. We talk in postman open range the two horizons and then after that we'll go into

David Lynch the March Madness winner. So that's it. That's your schedule for the rest of the year Okay, and for everyone asking when Twin Peaks is gonna be discussed on the podcast late October for season one November for season two, and sort of December for season three if you want a time you're watching to that. Lynch takes us to the end of 2024, plan accordingly, obviously with new release movies in between there. Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, don't repeat it. Two times is the most we can say that.

Zemeckis is here, which looks normal. That is... I really... It really threw me. I was like, this is ghoulish and we have to stop. I'm amped and I wanted to do more. I think he's just getting warm. I can't. I really... It really disturbs me to see Robert De Niro and Harrison Ford and now Tom Hanks just walking around in old man's bodies with old men voices with young men's faces.

It is so horrifying. We have to stop. Have you seen a man called Otto? I have not. There is a... Talk about an annoying kid. David's pointing at the clock. There is a DH Hanks in that movie for one scene that is so horrific looking that when I saw the hero trailer, I was like, this is the greatest special effect I've ever seen. Because in comparison, I'm like,

Bobby nailed it. Zemeckis hit the bullseye. For this, the whole thing with Zemeckis, much like Ang Lee, where it's like, you're doing the best version of this. I'm not denying that you have the technical acumen to push this to its limit.

It still looks cursed. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like even you tweaking all the knobs as best you can. Yes, it's better than that schmo over there, but is it good? Is it human? That's the question. That's the question. Is it human?

I think there's no question it is not human really. But it's like animated movies I feel like can be human. Yeah, absolutely. But this is not human. I of course also want to mention that we're doing an episode on Joker follow you to Jen Thank you so much for being here. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. I'm not show on strap Oh, which is we're very excited for but also the Joker's gonna make shit May or may not be there for that one. We'll see I think you're really good I think you're gonna be here more than you've ever you're gonna be like fucking Zemeckis here. You're gonna be stuck in this room forever. This one room from one angle for centuries. That's how here you're gonna be.

Millennia potentially? Dinosaurs? You're gonna start that episode out like a dinosaur David and you're gonna be here. Jen anything you want to plug? Oh my gosh I mean Quiz Lady on Hulu, Check It Out, Totally Killer on Amazon, Hocus Pocus 2 on Disney+, I'm hitting them all. And as you talk about very often on your Instagram watching them is very beneficial for you because the residual structures of writing original streaming movies is great. Oh yeah and they make a lot of sense, yeah Could you put some money falling?

Sound effects. Yeah, you know when you hear like, oh wow, it was the most watch movie on this platform You're like, oh wow, that probably means it'll make a lot of money and then you email them and then they're sort of like it Actually didn't meet expectations for us and you're like, what's your model then? Anyway, everything's good. Yeah, but yeah, you know, follow me on Instagram at Jen underscore d'Angelo. You have a great IG. Oh, thank you so much And also a 80 for Brady Doughboy's episode coming soon. Let's just state the intention. Yes. Let's just get that out in the world Yeah, thank you for being here. And thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate review and subscribe And thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Bardi for helping to produce the show, A.J. McKeon for editing and being our production coordinator, J.J. Burke for our research, Lay Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song, Joe Bohn and Pat Reynolds for our artwork.

You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real, nerdy shit, including our Patreon, where you can hear the Hot Tomorrow's episode we talked about, Waterworld coming up, and as we transition from the sewers of the Ninja Turtles to the top of the table, the Tabletop Games Patreon series. And all I'm going to say is, we committed to what we're doing to end off the year and I'm very happy and I won an argument and it's going to be good. It wasn't even an argument. It took maybe 20 gifs sent in one text thread to convince. You decided to do that, unprompted, to be clear. I was rewarded and now I've learned a good behavior.

Ben, would you say that Griffin usually just gets what he wants by just like pushing the button over and over again until we're all like, fine, stop pushing the button. I'm very mature. Yes, I would. I would agree to that. Very mature and I am very diplomatic. Uh tune in next week for Dances with Wolves. Yep. And as always. Spoiler alert both of us are kind of mid on that movie. Yeah everyone's gonna get mad at us. But don't worry the next two we have really a lot of fun with. Yeah and And as always, gobble gobble.