Blank Check with Griffin & David - Going In Style with James Urbaniak

Episode Date: June 9, 2024

After years of citing him as a potential series, we’re finally Brest men. In this inaugural episode of our “Podverly Hills Cast” series, we’re taking a look at Martin Brest’s debut feature, 1979’s understated and deeply enjoyable old man heist film “Going in Style.” James Urbaniak joins us to chat through the beginning of Brest’s career, and the storied personas of George Burns, Art Carney, and Lee Strasberg. Cream cheese and jelly sandwiches on toasted rye for everyone!  This episode is sponsored by: AuraFrames.com (CODE: CHECK) ExpressVPN (ExpressVPN.com/check) Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! 

Blackjack with Griffin and David Blackjack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blackjack I gotta look back and say that my life was okay. Like I may share everything but money and the guys who went out for that, some of them got it today but put too much time in getting it. Whatever. That's history. Right now here we are.

And I ain't complaining but things would be a lot easier if we had a little extra cash. And besides, what the hell could we lose? Either we get the money or we get caught. We're podcasters either way. Wow. I didn't have it. No, no, no, no, no. Grizzled.

I was watching it last night and I was like, do I have a George Burns in me? And I could do grizzled, but there's some specific quality in the voice I feel like I'm missing there. They don't make guys like him. They don't make guys like guys like I think he's just sick. Can I chime in already? Yes, please. I think he's deceptively hard to do. Yes, because I watched in my research I watched a clip of him on a special that rich little was on the eminent. Yes biggest impression It's not the seven. Yes, right and there's a bit where Rich does George to George's face. And frankly, no disrespect to Rich Little.

No, I think I want you to disrespect. I don't think he quite nailed it. I think it was as good as what you just did. Interesting. I have long found, I've complained about it on this very podcast, that Rich Little is weirdly overrated. Rich Little mid is a take we have. And you'll watch these clips of him doing exactly this,

of him going to Carson and being, you know, doing Carson in front of Carson, and you expect like, man, Carson's voice is about to come out of this man. And instead you're like, oh, this is like a fine impression. Maybe it's generational. When I grew up, Rich Little was the impressionist

in the 70s. Right, the number one. Yeah, so he just equals impressions to me. Exactly, but like you watch it now and he just seems fine. I remember I think towards the end of his life. We're gonna talk about rich little on any episode This is a good one like you know towards the end of his life rich little side nope Introducing a new person Frank Gorshin yes did a George Burns one-man show off Broadway Called say good night, Gracie Oh, yeah, sure, and I remember seeing a poster and being like rings a bell Gorshin's a good visual fit

I wonder and he's a Yeah, Russians really good and bells are ringing he does a really funny Marlon Brando impression I'm just wondering if Gorshin nailed it good but burns it so I think he did I think I think Gorshin may have a little more dimension. I think Gorshin may be here's the thing better certainly I'll argue this 100% and there's here's the thing in the movie of The late shift uh-huh that Betty Thomas directed. Yes, the letter of a lot of wars One of the great films gosh of the Leno Wars. Yes, one of the great films.

Oh gosh, John Michael Higgins and Dan Roebuck. Dan Roebuck is Leno. Dan Roebuck plays Leno, the teen murderer from River's Edge, which seems like very appropriate casting. He was in Lost Arts. He gets dynamited. But they're playing Johnny Carson, Letterman's confidant, and mentor is Rich Little, because presumably Rich Little can do a Johnny Carson

He could do a famous Carson and I thought and his Carson he doesn't I think he does a good Carson impression But he's not an actor. No, right and you need a real actor in that role Don't worry about I think that's the one major misfire of the late shift my the casting of rich little is deeply watchable movie my buddies Are our buddies a podcast the writer obsessed with the late shift and watch it like biannually Just like the the utter nicheness of like let's do a TV movie about this recent change was like 94 Yeah, it was like not long. I know 96. Okay, but still like that stuff that stuff was news It was a huge pop cultural event, but look I mean mean, you, I said this last time you were on,

I'm gonna say it again, you're one of my favorite people to talk about acting with, and I remember you and I having a conversation about how good John Michael Higgins was in the late years, that that was the time you first noticed him. Ah, that makes sense. And what feels like it should be an impossible role to pull off.

Letterman would really make fun of him. Letterman liked to roast that performance. But I think his is the very good performance. Roebuck is totally fine as Leno, but Leno is so cartoonish as a person, he's a little easier to get away. And Kathy Bates is like going to the fucking mat in that movie. She's doing a great part for her. She's doing a great part for her. David, what do you mean about Leno? This just, you know, there's something about that guy.

Really? Hey Ben, you ever notice this? He's something. Hey Ben, hey Ben. He's something. That's the only Leno I have is just saying he's something. He's something. He's something.

What's Leno doing? Is he around? Oh, he got like set on fire. He was set on fire Yeah, I wish I shouldn't and then he and then I you heard about this podcast, but yeah I yeah, I remember he was in an accident. I don't remember the details I've talked about this on the podcast But he did like his exclusive first interview after they did like the skin graphs and he had recovered and I forget what news show

It was part of her it was today sure or whatever And I forget what new show it was part of her over today's show or whatever but he wouldn't stop making jokes about it and Whoever it was interviewing him like Robin Roberts or I think was Savannah Guthrie was like Jay, but seriously are you okay? Talk seriously and they were like you almost died you can talk about Millionaire complain the weird thing about Rich Little, I already have said this, it's like you can go see him perform now and he'll do like a Jack Benny impression. And it's like, the cultural context required at this point for a Rich Little performance. Well first of all, he's passed hasn't he?

No he's still alive. Oh he is? Oh my goodness. He is 85 years old. Here he is as Jack Benny at like the Comedy Store. Like recently-ish. Wow. That's amazing.

Because there's a great sketch on, there's an I think you should leave sketch, where very young people, like zillennials are at a party and they all recognize that a man has shown up as a Johnny Carson impersonator. For me, the funniest joke of the sketch was that a bunch of 23-year-olds know who Johnny Carson is. That he's such a part of the culture that even they... I thought you were going to say the opposite. The Heidecker charade sketch where he keeps putting obscure jazz musicians in it. That was a little funny.

Griffin, Griffin. Who's Dan Roque or whatever? For those who don't know, that's about a Gen-Xer at a party who's dating a millennial. And they're playing celebrity and all his, the Gen-Xer is doing all, not only Gen-X references, but old timey references. Some of which are made up for the sketch. Gen-X nostalgia. Right, I feel like they start out real and get more absurd.

I felt like I was having my skin taped off. That hit so hard. It was incredibly funny. I felt like I was having my skin test. That hit so hard. Yes. It was incredibly funny. In the writers room they were actually like, let's sock it to Urbania. Well that's what it felt like. Well this is a big old timey episode.

It is. We're going to be talking a lot of old timey show biz here on this episode. And thank you for asking me to be on this. Well I'm going to say why we had you on in a second, but this is blank check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin I'm David and I'm just realizing we don't know what this mini-series is called. I know what it's called I figured you did I texted it to James I've had it locked in text it to me because he texted asking me what it was gonna

Oh sure I had said they were in pitches I knew you'd already thought of all the things that texted you I was just curious Yeah I had said they were in pictures. I knew you'd already thought of all the things that texted you. I was just curious Yeah, so this is a podcast about filmography's directors who have massive success early on in their careers Yes, undoubtedly given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects. They want sometimes those checks clear sometimes they bounce, baby Sometimes they bounce baby. See I can't do it. I'm saying that Is that a little bit close sometimes then there's the cigar in the void There's the I keep well get to this because there's a very precise management of energy that that's true There's a very very no yeah, yeah It's masterful. It's it. This is a masterful performance

I mean he burns is incredible unbelievable in this in my opinion everyone's gone all four acting categories at the Oscars this year Wait, well, you're gonna have to oh just just as a as an homage to his great skill Yeah, they're like there's no best supporting actress this year only George again. Come on the stage, please This is a mini series on the films of Martin breast someone We're kicking it off here with this one, but someone who had what we were discussing off mic, pre-record, the kind of classical blank check arc we originally built this show around.

100%? Always has. Like the perfect kind of. The show could have been conceived around his filmography. Early success, this series of blank checks, bounce. I feel like just one of the earliest people we thought of for this show. Because of Xi Li, because of like this sort of

Meet Joe Black, Xi Li ending, we probably were often building around famous bombs and then going outward. And at the time we started the show, he hadn't made a movie in over 10 years, and nine years later, he still has not made another film we're talking about Martin breast the great Martin breast for the next couple months yeah just what seven weeks we're gonna be some breast man we are where the breast man and this series is called

pod Verley Hills cast nice which is one of a reference. Thanks. Thank you. One of his big breasted hits, if I may. B-R-E-S-T. Okay, am I allowed to say that for this? You can say big breasted. I'm allowed to say big breasted hit. Do you agree, Ben? Yeah, as long as it's acceptable.

As long as it's acceptable without a name. Of course. Yes. So you didn't want to do pod of a centcast? No, I wanted to do podverly. I said to James, I said podverly is such a good word, it's gonna be a pleasure to say on mic. It's gonna hit the ear beautifully.

It has good mouth feel. For weeks on end, it has great mouth. I don't know if it's hitting the ear beautifully. It's rattling in. Podverly Hillscast. It's not like a three pointer where it's just nothing but net, you know know there's a couple bands You know but that's an intention that makes it all the more satisfying when it goes through it

Did you consider me podcast I did and here's what I landed on instead pond for Lee Hills cast Ponderly hills cash today. We're talking about his first commercially released film. He had a very kind of successful, unusually successful short film that got a lot of traction, a lot of play, including being aired on SNL. And then he went to AFI, made a thesis feature-length film that got seen to some extent, but mostly was sort of a calling card movie for him. This is his first studio movie, the first film to get wide release those two

Things I just mentioned hot dogs for go again and hot tomorrow's we will be covering on patreon Yes, we will yeah, but this is his first is his first real full-breasted movie Yeah, if I can say the ample breasted film, okay? Okay, we got an emphasis punting in the bud. I think so I open the door on it. And I can't say no to movie stars. I had to be the first one to say a big breasted hit. This is you get to set the precedent. Because I needed to.

Return to the show. He's back. My dear friend. Yes. One of our finest actors. Well. I mean, yes. Last time.

How do you get an Oppenheimer? No. You filmed it, but it hadn't come out. Yeah, obviously you'd filmed it. But no, I think the last time. I was a guest just almost a year ago. It was May of last year. Right.

We're recording this in April. I know, but that's right. You had, right, obviously Oppenheimer came in July. Yeah, I must have judged on Oppenheimer. You had recently been in West Side Story. Yes. and so we discussed that. I mean, Fablemen's, I always confuse the two. Because you're in a gym. Yeah, and I'm a high school principal. Both films feature high school gyms. Yeah, yeah.

And both of those movies have friends of the show in them. That's right. And I once was like, there's three friends of the show in the West Side Story scene, but no, you're in the Fablemen scene, of course. Yeah. No, I mean, you, um, a highly esteemed actor, incredible career. I'm only doing 10-Paul movies. Of course. That's my new thing. No more of this indie bullshit. Well, also trying to only be in films that have to be covered on Blank Tech because they're

previous directors we've covered. Yes. You already had an incredible career under your belt last year when you were on the show, but since then, America, nay the world, saw you stare at the sky in IMAX. True. A transformative effect. Saw Einstein tut about you. Yeah.

Watch me play with my little hat in IMAX, where my hat was as big as a Volkswagen. Humongous. And the resolution, the detail. You could see every pore in my relatively good skin. Tom Conte nice? Very nice. We were both staying in the same hotel in Princeton when we shot that scene at Princeton. Did you actually shoot it at the, what's it called, research?

I don't know if that place still exists. It does, it does, it does. We actually shot it at the university, which is not where that scene is said. Okay, but the adjacent Research place he was I would see him as the for my first Morning there. I saw him eating breakfast in the hotel. No, no, mr. Tom Conti No, no doesn't breakfast. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no one was Nolan and mr. Murphy were not staying in the hotel No smartphones no breakfast with Tom Cahn which is perfectly nice. The Canti hotel is still nice. It was like a Weston It was just your standard, you know, yeah, but I saw him and I thought oh, there's there's Einstein, but I was a little shy I actually didn't want to bother him because I was like I'll see him on the set tomorrow and I'll talk to him then And was it just one day? It was it was just one day. People talk about how surprisingly fast Nolan works.

Well, my only context is that scene, which is a relatively simple scene with three people in it. You're in the woods. That goes by quickly without a lot of setups. But it did go by pretty quickly. Yeah, that's what I've heard from Africa. How loud is the dang IMAX camera though? That's a good question.

That was insane. It was like making a silent movie in 1918. It was like brrrrr. Yeah, that's what, what's it, Benny Safdie says it sounds like a lawn movie in 1918. It was like yeah, that's what what's it? Benny Safdie says it sounds like a lawnmower Yeah, completely befuddled. I Mean and I didn't do any ADR so somehow they captured look it is weirdly under discussed when people talk about Well Killian had a big microphone in his hat

That's why he has to wear it all the time. Yeah, but people talk about like why is the sound mixing weird in Nolan movies? Why can you sometimes not hear dialogue and whatever and what I've always heard is that like he doesn't like ADR he thinks ADR sticks out and he loves to shoot with these loud-ass cameras and So instead he's muffling the camera sound which then maybe has some ripple effect on the dialogue Tom Conti the only actor my mother ever wrote a fan letter to. Really? Did I not bring that up on the episode?

What year did she write this? He was in... It was last year, after she saw Oppenheimer. Was this for the Norman Conquests on PBS? No, although what a wonderful poll, and I loved the Norman Conquests. Incredible poll. Was it the Broadway production of Whose Life Is It Anyway?

There you go. That's right, she saw him in that. I know my Conti. She saw him in that. I know my Conti. She saw him in that on Broadway, so she would have been. How lovely. I was like 79, so she would have been like 26, 27. And she wrote to him Care of the Theater?

That's actually a good question. How did she get in, but yeah, either Care of the Theater or maybe his management or something. That's lovely. And he replied. That's lovely. Well, he was a very nice guy. But she said it was the only time she had been so affected by something, you know, some

performance that she felt needed to write a letter. And I remember I grew up in New Jersey. So when I didn't see that show, but when it was on Broadway, I was in high school, and they had a local TV commercial for it. And it was Tom Conte speaking as himself saying, my name is Tom Conte. Hello, dear boy. Yeah, hello, dear audience.

I'll be on Friends in 20 years or so. I'm in this play called Whose Life Is It Anyway? And it's about a man who's paralyzed, et cetera, et cetera. And then he said something to you, the effect of, and it has such a remarkable effect on audiences. So the thing you're just describing is what he was selling, and he was right and he was right. He was right.

David Simms' mother will lose her liver. I got a letter from a miss, well whatever her name was at the time. It's still her name, Toposki. Yes, by a young lady named Toposki. Yes, right. I mean, I just think about it. And I can see her teardrops on this very piece of paper.

He also said, someday Colin Mochery and Ryan Stiles will make a whole career riffing on the title of this play for humorous effect. Yes. And there is humor in the play. Me and Brady too, but he'll have other things going on. He'll sort of branch out. Mochery will really kind of pitch his tent here. I will one day play Albert Einstein. In an- Me! In a Y-Maz film film he didn't quite have I'm actually right right Credit for getting even some of the letters some letters, but it won't be about him I'll just be off to the side some New Jersey upstart a very handsome young character. I was not that young but

Anyway look up at the sky James as I said you're one of my favorite people to talk about Acting with a thing that often I feel like people struggle to have the language for I certainly feel like I struggle with it I find you often find that critics struggle to really understand Sort of on a process level and I think many great actors also the process is sort of so deeply Engrained in them and kind of unknown that it's hard for

them to express themselves. And when it comes out, it often comes out in very pretentious ways. Where I feel like you've had this very, always had this very strong language for sort of brass tacks analysis of sort of acting styles and people's effects on screen and on stage. It's just something that I've always been interested in. I think I was compelled by this when I was very young before I even knew I wanted to be an actor. I remember a few years ago a character actor named Jack Reilly died. Jack Reilly played Mr. Carlin on the Bob Newhart Show, this sort of misanthropic.

He was on many episodes of Night Court. Lot of TV in the 70s and 80s. Or Mary Tyler Moore Show. Yeah, Mary Tyler Moore Show. He was on a couple times, I think, actually playing different parts. You know who else he was? I was going to say... He was Stu Pickles in Rugrats.

Okay, that's after my time. I know that's after your time. I don't know him from now. Pivotal character for me. David has contended that as the hottest man in the history of animation is the tired dad on Rugrats. I think he's good looking. I'm not saying he's the hottest. Anyway.

I will tell you that when I was a kid, I would watch the Bob Newhart Show during its original run. And Mr. Carlin was this sort of, for lack of a better word, deadpan sort of character, who was kind of a misanthrope and a sad sack. And Jack Riley just had this sort of very contained quality to his acting, it was very funny. He just talked about how depressed he is and his voice always sort of stayed at this level.

And I thought he was really funny. And then when he died a couple of years ago, I thought, oh, Jack Riley, I always loved him. And I realized when I was 10 years old, he was my favorite character on New Heart. And I'm sure because it was some incipient interest in the technique of acting, that I was actually drawn towards his performing technique.

Interesting. And the fact is that sort of internal kind of, that's actually an area that I get cast in sometimes. Yeah, absolutely. And in fact, I think George Burns is actually very good at that in a certain way, this sort of contained energy. Yeah, you're respectful.

So my point is I think from an early age, I was drawn to the technical aspects of acting before I even knew the vocabulary or knew what that was. I didn't just think Mr. Carlin was funny. I was compelled by what Jack Riley was doing, even though I didn't understand that at the time. I just wanted to double check my facts here, because I watched both Mary Tyler Moore and Night Court

in the pandemic, in sort of mushy brain era, in their entirety. He was on two episodes of Mary Tyler Moore, and he was on seven episodes of Night Court, and in all cases, he played an entirely different character on each episode. This is a great thing that, Law and Order did this in New York too, they would cast the same actor six times over the course of a few years.

Law and Order is the only one that still does it. I wish they'd keep doing it because I need to work. It was fun to watch, well yes, but it was also fun to watch Night Court and be like, oh two seasons later here's Jack Riley as an entirely different guy. And he wasn't transforming himself. He had a very specific style. Yeah, but he was checking. Exactly. He's doing his Jack Riley thing. And it was just like, this guy always scores. Bring him back. Exactly.

If it's been 35 episodes, put a different suit on him and introduce him as a new guy. Yeah. And if some people remember, it doesn't matter. We all know this is Make Believe. Who gives a shit? Griffin Newman gonna be watching this in the pandemic on Amazon freebie four years from now? No, I want them to bring that. I want TV producers to bring back the multiple guest shot. Yeah, absolutely. Where you play different characters.

Because you and I would clean up. Oh. You didn't even shell out Griffin. Just buy that sucker. You guys are suffering through the ads. Well now I bought the whole series on iTunesunes the point here is I went to see you Were doing a play in? Los Angeles yes, just last month you happen to be in LA brushstroke saw it

Brendan Hines Friend of the show dear friend of the show the great Malcolm Barrett Malcolm Barrett I never have been a fan of for a long time you were were excellent in the show. And we went out for drinks and chips afterwards at a Mexican place nearby. And you said, so who do you have coming up on Blank Check? And I said, Martin Brest. And you went, ah, going in style. You immediately.

Did I? Not the first thing many would say, I would say. Most people would probably go for Beverly Hills Cubs, Centival Woman. And then you ran down to the rest of the fence. I think then I said to you who are you getting for midnight run? Cuz that's obviously the the brass, right? It's the apex. You said that Out of your mouth we're going in style and just hearing you say the title in your voice It pinned in my head and I texted Sam's and I said we should get fucking our baniac for going in style

That's like I didn't throw up a wall like like perfect Thank well, I'm glad you did. Thank you Malcolm Barrett so funny and I'm better off Ted Which I feel like not enough people talk about that show you love anymore very good show. Yeah But this is for many reasons I thought Malcolm's a brilliant actor as a lover of old-timey things And that is a thing that you and I bonded over one and the end of it and there this stars three old-timey things It stars three old-timey things and also sort of like three legends of show business who I would argue had very different acting styles 100% and yet one of the things it works fast and they harmonize beautifully

But you're watching a match of them on paper does actually does not make sense except the same age And how much of this yes plays out in three shots like masterful extended unbroken three shots especially? Straws well, we'll get it This is because breast is very much an actress director and it's Martin loves, and you'll get into this over the course of the series, he loves actors and he loves what he gets from actors. He also loves movie stars, but he loves all actors, even down to the smallest supporting roles. So he likes behavioral energy. So in all his films, there will be kind of long takes that aren't broken up.

That are low on action. That are just people behaving. And there's some fantastic behavioral scenes in this movie. This is a movie that is like, truly might be 15% footage of very old men sitting in silence next to each other. Making coffee or whatever. Right. Yeah, just like being in a kitchen. Right, just adjacent quiet stillness.

Or in a park. Or mild sort of like puttering around. And it is utterly captivating. This movie just sort of like has incredible confidence in that. In never leaning on what I assumed this movie was going to lean on absolutely hilarious old guy hijinks yes because it's a high concept pitch on paper decided to pull off a bank job right and the kind of movie that could very easily be made remade in a very obvious it comes that's my I haven't seen the remake but from what I've gleaned

That's a little more where that exactly you would imagine and you like you you could see like okay The remake is the worst version of what was a more delicately handled version of a high-concept comedy rather than this movie Which is really like a pretty sobering meditation on the rejection of old people in society Like mark Brest is also a great comedy director But the movie doesn't lead with the comedy the comedy resonates out of the situation It is and the thing is we funny, but of the three actors two of them are basically comic actors million George Burns is a comedian

Art Carney is a is was known as a comic actor. Yeah And who also did like impressions and sketch comedy. One guy who's back, and then you've got like Mr. Dramatic Acting Lee Strasburg, the father of the method. The man that synthesizes the method. Yeah, exactly. You have that, you have a guy whose training is basically like adjacent to clowning, and one guy whose background is primarily stand-up.

And then you've got a guy, how old is Martin at the time? 28 or something? That's the craziest part. He's in his mid-20s. And he wrote the script. He wrote the script and he seems to totally understand what it is to be a septu-generic. These three older gentlemen, although Art Carney is actually my age when he made the film. He's 60.

Is he 60? Which by the way, James, you look incredible. Thank you. He's got Wilford Brim way, James, you look incredible. Thank you. He's got Wilford Brimley energy. I want to get greater and bolder and fatter because I think I'll get more work out that I'm 60. But all three of those gentlemen understand the assignment. And it's a 1979 movie, so there's still a little element of 70s naturalism going on

in the film. And they all get what they're there to do. It's great, everyone's on the same page. I watched this movie for the first time probably 10 or 15, 10 or 12 years ago. It was when, you remember when Warner Archive briefly had their own streaming service? I do, yes.

Which then turned into Filmstruck, which then became Criterion. Back when they were just like, just put them online who cares right? Yeah, this movie was out of circulation for a while still is not on blu-ray is that right correct? Unfortunately, I bought it on iTunes, but when I had become like sort of breast-pilled Very good. Thank you ding Thank you. Just putting a little we have I have an abacus here, and you just got a point. I just

when I was just sort of Comedy abacus sticking my nose in between breasts I saw this film was on the Warner Archive thing and I was like oh that movie is actually kind of hard to see and I watched it and loved it and have like cited to people as sort of an undersung gem and then rewatched last night and I About 15 minutes in was like is this a full-bore masterpiece? Do I think this is like a great American movie with capital letters? I think it's I think there's really there's little complaint you can have about it. It is small, right?

It's like... Yeah, 100% it's small. You know, but that's to its credit. Yes, it's restrained and it's modest, but that's part of its power. Thank you. 100%. And then later Mr. Breast will actually lean into grander stories. Gets very big.

Yes, and the saxophone will... And will lean into... Come in on the score. After his great success in these big, big breasted comedy hits. Well, and we're back. Then when you're in the center of the woman and Micho Black, you're telling grander stories, which are novelistic, whereas this apparently was actually based on a short story, and the movie is like a short story, and that's its power.

The economy and the smallness of it is actually the power of the film. It might just be the mood I'm in or whatever, but last night this was hitting me so hard and part of it was just like my deep appreciation for the simple power of it. Of course. I have no objection. I was completely impressed by this movie. Yes. And now I was just thinking, I don't remember if I'd seen it before I watched it for this

podcast. Oh, wow. And I remember when it came out, because I was in high school in 1979. And one thing I've always remembered for some reason is an interview. Tom Conti was on Broadway. An interview that George Burns did about promoting the movie. That's maybe a little clue.

I had it for a second. But I remember an interview where George Burns said, it's directed by this very smart kid, Martin Brest. I remember him calling him very smart. And then he gave an example of this and he said that George Burns said that he had adlibbed a line and that Martin Bress said, that's a very funny George Burns joke, but it's not a good Al joke. George is, no, no, or rather Joe. Joe is George's character. And then George Burns appreciated that and then said to the interviewer,

you see what I mean? Smart. And for some reason that has stayed with me for like 40 years, that little... If I were directing Going in Style, if I were for some reason at the age of 20, whatever, 27, put in charge of these three guys, I would... Three legends, basically. Three legends, two Oscar winners here and then Lee Strasberg, who's no slouch. Recent nominee. Recent nominee, of course.

Yeah. And they started doing bits. I would certainly be too afraid, I think, to try and reign George Burns in. And yet, clearly, that is how he got such a wonderful performance out of him. It is astounding that he had the level of insight as a 27-year-old to execute this movie as both a writer and a director in terms of the subject matter right and the specificity Of it it is astounding the level of like command he had over craft But in a way the single most impressive thing is that he earned the respect and trust of those three guys as a 27 year old

That they not only like agreed to do the movie But in the dossier that JJ put together There's like quotes from all three of them where they were like two days in I was like this guy knows what he's doing I trust him. I'm in his hand. We will yeah exactly we will discuss it. I mean it's so weird Considering he got started in his 20s. Yeah, Martin Bresch should have like 20 films under his belt He was already spacing them out before... Yeah, before we stopped making them. Right, before G. Lee lands like an atom bomb.

Griffin, it's the same dilemma every year. What do you get the man who already has everything? Put down those slippers, get away from the ties. It's Father's Day. You want, get away from the ties. It's Father's Day. You want to get your dad something unexpected and or a digital frame. Ben, do you know about these? I do know about these,

but let's tell our listeners in case they're not familiar. No, I think you should we should just assume everyone knows and I'll just stop talking about it. And, you know, we can just move back on to the conversation about the film that we're discussing today. All right. Now I'll tell you something. All right. Look, there are these beautiful Wi-Fi connected digital frames.

They allow you to share and display unlimited photos. You can upload and share your photos using a super easy Aura app. And if you're giving it as a gift, you can personalize the frame. You can preload photos and memories onto it. Okay. So that's not just one damn photo. No, that's the thing. For years, we toiled with picture frames that could only have one photo.

Which one? Am I going to get it? Well, I put it. And then it's hard to take it out. And then what if it like falls? You know how sometimes they kind of fall to the side and like it weird and even, you know, you got to fix it. Yeah.

Or frames not like that at all, because you just upload photos to it. It can slideshow through them. You know, you can to fix it. Yeah. Aura frames. Not like that at all, because you just upload photos to it. It can slideshow through them. You know, you can do all kinds of stuff. It's in one hundred and thirty gift guides. One of Oprah's favorite things. We like her. It takes about two minutes to set up. You know, it comes packaged in a premium gift box.

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This deal ends June 18th. So don't wait, use code check at checkout to save. Terms and conditions apply. Weird that Griffin didn't want to weigh into that, but whatever. Anyway, okay, so what do you know about Martin Bres? Cause I can tell you some things. Born in 1951, August 8th.

In the Bronx. My wedding anniversary. Wow, wow, wow. In the Bronx, that's right. Jewish, Eastern European immigrants. They give him a classic, you know, Bronx Jew upbringing, I feel like. David was miming a stamp.

It's just a lot of laundry out on the line, right? Go on further. Come on. You got your Manhattan Italian Martin. Sure. A little earlier. Gorgese. Little older. Little Italy. Now you got your Bronx Jewish Martin. Italian Martin sure a little earlier Gertrude little little little Italy Now you got your Bronx Jewish Mart, you know taking the take circling around each other Taking the Grand Concourse line and go into the that's right to the deli right and you got Martin Ridd on the other side Of the country going what about yeah, yeah, what about me?

Let's see, you know This is you know He says I remember my father was sitting at the table reading the Jewish paper and I was watching television and a dog food commercial came on and he looked up and he saw- Martin Rood was born in New York City, in the Bronx. Well, there you go. Hang your head in shame.

Let me finish this dog food anecdote. Please, sorry. This is Martin Brest. His father looks up and sees not only do they make special food for dogs in America, whereas anyone of his family would starve to death under millions of circumstances, but they advertise it. And my father looked up and he said in Yanis, Das ist Amerika. And that was a chuck wagon commercial directed by Marty Daburgy, the director of This is

Spinal Tooth. And that is when Martin Brest fell in love with cinema. Yes. Exactly. Director of this is and that is when Martin Bress fell in love with cinema. Yes But I do love that idea of like these these sort of immigrant Jews being like this is why we came here and yet also I you know, I will never understand quite what this is this country. Yes, we you know, and it's Meshuggah. Yes Alright, yeah, you know loves the honeymooners relates to the honeymooners according to the Wikipedia excerpt I read. That makes sense. He went to Stuyvesant High School, which obviously is a public school you tested to. Smarty Pants Public School Specialty High School, yep. It's Malcolm Barrett one, I believe.

You are correct. You are correct. You went to Stuyvesant? I only know that because I just Googled him. Wow. He went to Stuy. Marty says, it was like Stalag 17, no one would bathe, everyone was horny as hell, all these ultra extraordinarily bright working class, delor, middle class kids, a lot of them schlepping in from the Bronx or Brooklyn with their monster briefcases. It's an interesting time.

He went to NYU, which his father thought was not sensible. He went as a film major. So this would have been in like the 60s, the late 60s. My mom has a very close friend who went to NYU and he likes to say, I went to NYU and it was bad. Because NYU became this like hot school. But like back in the 60s and 70s, it was a very like, not a glitzy school in the slightest.

No, the other fascinating thing is that by his own account, he was not like a major cinephile. It almost feels a little arbitrary that he ended up landing there and then the sort of passion grew. No, he says not right. Like he was not talking about Antonioni and how to move the camera. And he said, I was like, why would you want to move the camera? I like the little rascals. Like just point the camera at him and he even says like

His favorite thing growing up were little rascals which quote technically are horrendous bad angles terrible editing And I almost couldn't shake that sort of dopey technique That's interesting. I mean because this movie is obviously simply made right, but like I would not call it amateurish or badly done. It's not like he was like, well, I was so studious about the little rascals, I came to film school trying to continue the tradition of Hal Roach. He was just kind of like, yeah, there's some movies I like. He like a lot of people credits The Million Dollar Movie. I think a lot of people of his generation will talk about The Million Dollar Movie,

which was a channel where they would play the same movie multiple times within the given week And it was often an old classic film. This is back and I remember something they got for cheap I remember the end of this era because I was born in 63 sure in New Jersey and we got all the New York stations So the first old movie I fell in love with was King Kong Oh, yeah, because I think it was it was either Channel 9 or Channel 11 I forget which one but one of those local channels, for some reason, every Thanksgiving they would show King Kong, which makes no sense. There's not a Thanksgiving, there's no Thanksgiving theme.

I mean, they, they give thanks that they've caught King Kong up to a point. Yes. But I was entranced by all the mysterious quality of this 1930s black and white film with this early stop-motion. There was something very compelling to me about that and I'm sure that's the same way to a lot of people who watch like these old films but there's also something about the distance of them that's... Yes. ...that actually draws you to them.

I feel like I just heard a lot of major film people of this generation Talk about especially grew up in the Tri-state area the influence of the million-dollar movie were because of whatever licensing agreement They had whatever movie was playing that week would play nine times within that given week It would play every day and twice on the weekends, and he was like it's not like I was a movie movie obsessive But I really was starting to teach myself from watching the same film nine times, even if I wasn't obsessed with that movie. Yeah, there's no home video. There's nothing like that.

So you just kind of stumble upon these things, which are just shown locally. And if you have some incipient desire to do this, or some connection to it that you don't even understand yet, that's very powerful, seeing these images. His quote was, to be able to see the same movie four or five times in one week was a revelation because you could start to see, even if you were unconsciously looking at it, if you felt the experience, you were able to then somehow subliminally see how that

experience was constructed to make the impact on you. Proto film school. Yeah, 100%. And then he? Proto film school. Yeah, 100%. And then he goes to actual film school. His father wanted him to become, I wanna check here, a sheet metal worker. Makes sense. An apprentice in Local 28.

He says, you're gonna make $400 a week if you do that. And he said, Papa, I wanna be a director. I gotta dance. It seems like Martin Bress is really funny. Like JJ's been warning us that this guy's very quoteable. He actually said, I gotta dance, like Adam Goldberg in the film. He claims he says this.

It's written phonetically in the interview. Gotta dance! Right. It's a metaphor. But he was a classic comedy guy. It was Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin and the Little Rascals. The Honeymooners. And then he ends up casting Art Carney.

Yes, of course. Who was the only one of the three guys who he wrote the part for. Really? That's interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. He conceived as Art Carney as the Al Kiernan. Yeah, you're too young to have been watching The Honeymooners live. Right?

That was a 50s show. Yeah, it was 50s. But it was obviously heavily in repeats. It was a heavy syndication in New York. It was on like every day at like 11 o'clock. The way he talks about it is the way a lot of people, boomers that I know, I'm not saying boomers now like everyone's mean about. David's holding up an accusatory finger.

This is a show about working class people. It was the first show they'd ever seen about working class people. By the way, there's an old Burns and Schreiber who were a comedy team. Oh yeah. There's an old Burns and Schreiber routine where every every Shriver is talking to Burns and Burns says, Burns like an Irish guy. So you're a Jew, excuse me. And then Treyburs says, hey, Jews not a derogatory term.

So I say, boomer's not necessarily a derogatory term, even though it can be used. Now everyone, you know, you just, you forget how to do anything, you're a boomer. I just wanted to chime that, hey, boomer's not a derogatory term. Exactly. But no, is that he's saying The succumbs used to be about sort of idealized perfect family and I write the honeymooners they live in Brooklyn They're working class. They have blue-collar jobs He says this was a show made for my neighborhood Ralph Crandon the angry soul whose spirit blossoms that was sure character He rep, you know, like really yeah, and it's it's Jackie Gleason is street yeah got a street quality yeah

very different that also father knows best or whatever yeah right okay so he goes to NYU he crossed over with Amy Heckerling he was friends with her there they dated yes they dated she has an amazing quote about him I'm to here she said he was the coolest there were a few people that everybody knew were gonna make it and he was one of them and then her other quote was Sometimes he does such stupid self-destructive things that you just want to punch him when we were going out I can't count how many broken bones he had amazing I sort of talk about our impressive course sort of in fat. I I have met Amy heckerling. Uh-huh, and she is a cool Sort of in fact that I I have met Amy heckling. Uh-huh, and she is a cool

Lady she's been cool. So that was that was what very good that Marty Snagged Amy heckling. That's that's a pretty cool powerful endorsement, and she has a very attractive New York accent he oh yeah, he pops up briefly on camera in hot dogs for Gauguin and He looks fucking hot, man. He looks hot as hell. No, he's even really cute in Fast Times. He's in the autopsy scenes. He's short, Hot Dogs for Gauguin, he's on the subway with Rhea Perlman. And I'm watching it going, who is that guy?

Who's this young slice? And then at the end, I saw the credits and went, that was Martin Breast? I'm not saying he aged poorly, but you have not watched hot dogs for good He's got this little smirk on his face. It does jump out where you're like That's a fucking pretty man. He and Amy were walking in at parties in 1970 and people were like what just happened Yeah, we can't compete with these two All right, so we can't compete with Heckerbreast. He's Heckerbreast. Breast or Lung?

Okay, so he makes hot dogs for Grigand, it's very well regarded. With the not known Danny DeVito. He's got Mr. Danny DeVito and of course, Rhea Pearlman, future husband and wife there. It's sort of pointed to almost like the fabled Godspell performance of all of these people when they were unknown, worked on this one thing together. Yeah, right, exactly. The DP is Jacques Heitken, who's well known for shooting Wes Craven movies, this one thing together. Yeah, right. Exactly. The DP is Jacques Heitken, who's well known for shooting Wes Craven movies. Right.

Almost everyone involved in this went on to have a serious career. William Duff Griffin is his friend who was actually a prominent stage actor in New York back in the 70s and stuff. Plesed to AFI with it. They initially apparently had rejected him, but then they saw the film and they they accepted him to become an AFI student by his own admission He wrote a sort of like I don't know fuck you kind of admissions essay right right and they were like who's this punk? And then when they saw the movie they were like we kind of can't question this guy, but I'm sure go yet Let's let's skip past that because we're gonna talk about hot dogs. Sure. We can't we can't do the whole origin

Let's do the origin story of going in style. Okay, okay Edward can point is though He makes it goes back to AFI He makes hot tomorrows and hot tomorrows gets sort of sent around Hollywood right the studios see it and they go this guy Undeniably knows how to make a picture. He pitches this idea for going in style Well, Edward Cannon was originally the film was originally called stepping out Which is a pretty bad title going and sells a very good title much better Edward Cannon a 49 film was originally called Stepping Out, which is a pretty bad title. Going in style is a very good title. Much better. Edward Cannon, a 49-year-old carpenter from Queens, had this idea for a story about old men seeking glory via bank robbery, records it to tape.

It gets in the hands of Leonard Gaines, a friend of Marty Brest's, who is the producer on this movie. This guy gives the tape to Bast and Breast buys the rights to it. It's not really even a short story. It's like someone just set an idea for a movie. This movie is based on a cassette. You know, there was another famous carpenter who told parables and didn't write them down. Other people had to spread his words. You know, the tape recorder of his day. And I think he also had a Queen's accent.

It was the Mount. It depends if Martin I think he also had a Queen's accent. It was the mount. Well, it depends if Martin Scorsese's making it or not. Consider the lilies. So wait, this guy just recorded this thing and it just made its way. Is it truly just the guy being like, yeah, these three guys, they're old guys, you know, and they want to rob a bank, so they do that.

I don't know how much of his idea is here. So this was never published no never And it doesn't have a credit in the movie obviously it's literally like based on a story set out loud I think the movie has a credit based on a story by Edward Kent. Yeah, okay. You're right. You're right It does okay, but I didn't realize the story was just something he recorded on his Radio Shack cassette Yeah, to the condenser. We don't know that it was Radio Shack. Oh yes it was, trust me. So Breast goes, pitches this movie to Warner Brothers.

They go, sounds good, let's find a writer for it. They go around looking for a writer, no one's biting, he's like, can I just take a strike at this? Breast in the Bronx fashion, does the wiggling thumbs to himself. This guy right here. Writer right here. But they almost treat it like, I don't know why not, we'll have someone else rewrite his thing at least it like gets a first draft out.

And everyone's like, this script is fucking great. Jay Press and Alan is busy. Yeah. There were three writers at that time. He's handed. Yeah, William Goldman couldn't do it. He's handed $5.5 million budget, which is a major budget, obviously. So they're like, you better cast some real actors here.

R. Carney, as you say, was the only choice for Al. But the original choice for Lee Strasburg's part of Willie was an actor called Barnard Hughes. Barnard Hughes, a fine actor. Another, I feel like a guy where it's like, you have seen him in at least one movie as an old guy. He had a very good, long, old actor. Like played old guys his whole life.

He's a midnight cowboy playing an old guy. He's in Doc Hollywood, he's in tons of stuff. And Burgess Meredith. Oh my God. Makes a ton of sense. As the George Burns guy. Would have killed on his own terms, one of the great actors

Absolutely a legendary stick man a legendary stick in the middle. So just like the wrinkles and cracks Place a different acting style But unfortunately, yeah the most famous actor in Hollywood was George Burns He had just won an Oscar like three years ago Just won an Oscar, like three years ago. Amazing career resurgence. Right. And then he did Oh God, which was like a hit. We have to pull over the side of the road for a second to just explain the bizarre phenomenon of George Burns, right?

This sort of like old vaudevillian man. It's sort of like Betty White or something, like that kind of thing of like a sixth act for this performer. But you realize, George Burns is not in a movie between 1949 and 75? Is that right? Uh, 39. 39! And 75.

Here's this guy. He's in Honolulu in 1939, a classic old Golden Age musical. Legendary like fucking couples act of Burns and Allen, right? His wife, Chrissy Allen. Exactly. He goes from being a vaudeville guy to a radio guy to a TV guy. Huge in radio and then like a lot of people of that generation saw the opportunity for TV, Lucille Ball's another one.

And then became a huge TV star and actually did some very inventive stuff, famously like his TV was like the template for the first, for, not Larry Sanders, but the... Sure. Whatchamacallit? Yes, yes. The one before? It's Gary Shandling's show. Gary Shandling's show.

He talks to the, and I remember at the time everyone was like, this is like the George Burns show where he talked to the camera. Yes. They're bringing that back. I've never seen Burns now, but he's the straight man, right? Like she's the wacky one. This is the thing. Right?

Yes. George Burns' comedy thing is he's the straight man and she's flighty and says wacky, crazy stuff. Right. And he's like, okay. What are you talking about? What are you saying? But then, yeah, he has, but then she retires in the 50s. The two of them as a double act were as big as anybody in comedy. They were married for 40 years. She was long dead by the time this movie came. She died in 64. His famous catchphrase, I mean,

their line was, say goodnight Gracie, and then she would say goodnight Gracie. The classic joke. It's pretty funny. Yeah, but when people would do impressions of George Burns, that's what they would say. They were so associated with each other, she passes away. You have to imagine people viewed it as like, well look, these dinosaurs of a bygone era of American entertainment she passed away. He probably will die in the next two years She'd actually she'd retired a few years before she died. Yeah, so then he's solo and then actually is very successful as it as a TV producer He did other TV shows that he starred in that she wasn't in and then she dies and then Go on. I don't know. You're right. I mean he mostly does TV and he does like you play carnage

What was the first biggest the Sunshine Boys? When people are so like kind of Inextricably tied to each other and like creative partnerships like that and especially like very very long marriages You often find that like if one person dies the other one dies pretty shortly thereafter sure There's some sort of like symbiotic relationship of they were so dependent on each other The other person sort of loses the will yes And it's like George Burns is still alive his, who he was always associated with, has passed. He's still around, but it's in this sort of like elder statesman capacity.

And also, when he was a young man, he was kind of puttering around Vaudeville and just hadn't broken through. Yeah. And then when he met her, it was the key. And they became a double act. That was what made it all happen. Yeah. So, and that his strength, which was that very sort of restrained,

I'm just kind of dealing with the situation. And then what he's, it's always about his dryness set against something. Yes. So when his career explodes, it's because that when he came up by himself in Vaudeville, it wasn't set against anything, and people, it wasn't landing. Then when it's set against this kind of woman doing this kind of crazy lady thing, by the

way, Graciela was a very talented comedian, and really, really funny, like really good. But she was the energy of the... And they also, the two of them also have a wonderful sort of spontaneity. They're doing all these scripted jokes, but there's a real sort of spontaneity in life, if you listen to their radio show and I've seen it I haven't seen a lot. I've seen some of the TV show, but she's she was really really good but it's all about her energy sort of set against his Dryness yes, and then when the Sunshine Boys happens, which was a Broadway play that he wasn't in though

So the whole thing with it right was that it was supposed to be okay first was supposed to be hope and Crosby This is a sunshine boys is a Herbert Ross the movie version the movie version they they fascinating they decide I think it's Neil Simon is like absolutely not you need Jewish performers. It's a movie about old Favillian guys Then they then they decide Red Skelton and Jack Benny. Okay, Red Skelton realizes not bad. Not bad I I don't trust Red Skelton to deliver the goods Red Skelton and Jack Benny. Okay. Red Skelton realizes... Not bad. Not bad. I don't trust Red Skelton to deliver the goods. Red Skelton realizes he can make... You know the thing about Red Skelton too, also. He's annoying. Never had a dinner.

That's Red Buttons, dude. God damn it! You got the wrong red. Oh my god! Red Buttons, better actor than Red Skelton. You can't pull out the wrong red in front of Jimmy or Baniak Griffin, human. I would be embarrassed making that mistake under any circumstances. By the way, this is so high up in character in that sketch.

I'm embarrassed for myself that I corrected you. And I'm embarrassed that I forced you to correct me. But I appreciate the effort. Red Skelton realizes he can make more money on the road than being in the Sunshine Boys And also he's annoying and not yes, Jack Benny realizes that He dies has pancreatic cancer. He does so it would have been great Jack Benny would have killed it George Burns much bigger star and was a close friend of George Burns Right either way. Can I just do a sidebar? Do you know who is in the original Broadway cast? No

Sam Levine not the star of freaks and gates. Okay, that'd be weird By the way, can I just do a sidebar? Do you know who is in the original Broadway cast? No. Sam Levine, not the star of Freaks and Gates. Okay, that'd be weird. There was an older actor named Sam Levine. Okay. Anyway, I was a great guy, I was in the original Guys and Dolls and stuff and did movies. And Jack Albertson, Chico and the Man, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Yes.

But they probably, the two of them were not considered, the angle splendor of Charlie and the chocolate factory right? We're not considered maybe big enough George right that's the thing. They're not being George Burns is essentially Jack Benny's very good friend, and he's subs in last minute in grief He's very sad with Who's probably in his 50s is doing the sort of our Carney age up right and Walter Mathau has a very flamboyant acting style. Yes. And is really getting into I'm an old Jewish vaudevillian. And he's, it's great, I like, I love Matthew in the movie. I do too. But again, part of the power of Burns is, it's his dryness set against

right. Well, Mathau. Mayhem. So, Oh, it's one of the rare films which he mugs He never really would but I think it works for the character because he's this old vaudevillian who's striving But again, here's the power of burns. You set him against something. So it was grace in her flighty ideas Yeah, now it's Mathau and his kind of hyper Right over a billion who doesn't want to stop and and Matt and Burns' character is past it he's retired he doesn't want to get the old team back together so you have the perfect setup for Burns' strength which is his you know it's David Spade and Chris Farley if you will if I may be permitted to

compare this absolutely George Burns it's the nut and the guy who's like just come on it's just a man who was born in the 1800s yes whose first on-camera credit is lamb chops an eight-minute Vitaphone comedy short mmm and then doesn't appear in a film for over 30 years six years gets this part like as a last minute sub in for his friend and wins an Oscar. Wins an Academy Award at the age of 80. He was the oldest Oscar winner in the history of the Academy Awards until Jessica Tan. And he's fucking great in that movie.

But what's astounding is you have to imagine people were like, what a nice sort of a stage bow for this legendary career. I think that's partly why he won the Oscar, of course. It was a ride. It was a right. It was a, you know, God bless you. You're back. And now, not only is he back, now he's hot again. The public decides you are an A-list movie star.

We want more of this guy in movies. We're building movies around you. You're going to have your own trilogy. No, no, no, not just that. They're like, who would you work best with? John Denver. That's right. The two of you,

you will be playing God, George Burns. A two-hander with Brooke Shields? Does he with that one? That one's called, what's it called? That's not Just You and Me Kid. I thought that was a remake of, is that a remake of Lambchops, by the way? It might be.

The story of two juvenile delinquents. But yes, he does Oh God does, Oh God, just you and me kid going in style. Oh God book two, of course, 18 again, which is a sort of body swap comedy. Yes. Oh God, you devil and 18 again. And that's basically the end of his run from 75 to 88. And you're like, well, at that point, he's really old. He must have retired, right right he must have died soon after

He lives another eight years. He makes it to 100. He lived to be 100 years I remember watching him show up on like award shows and variety specials as a kid in the mid-90s and being like this is The oldest man who has ever lived this is like a dinosaur is presenting an award like how are there still people alive? Span the entirety of American popular comedy right it felt like he was this living history He's like four years older than the 20th century Yes, and at that point he has outlived his like a victory lap Oscar when everyone's like this guy's probably got 18 months left on this mortal coil and going in style is just part of this Like his I can do anything

I want era of his career. He he it's estimated He smoked 300,000 cigarettes during his lifetime starting at the age of 14 never smoked a cigarette never used marijuana saying I can't get any more kids are getting he's got a gar because that was his go-to By the way, he's cigar less in going in style Cigars. Yes. Because that was his go-to prop for the bulk of his comedy career. By the way, he's cigar-less in Going and Ston. I feel like, again, to make you realize, he's not just doing his shtick here. He's playing a real guy here. Different glasses.

He's playing a real guy, but the thing is, again, he is really giving a performance here. It's a character with a lot of dimension, but it's still the thing of the George Burns dryness set against something. And in this case, it's set against the insanity of his idea. Yes plot. So that's that's where he plays it So fucking straight is a really good George Burns line sure so they could they call me He's 83 years old when he makes this movie If he's in the other room, he doesn't even know the phone is ready like the maid has to tell him He can't hear it Bob Shapiro

The producer says George called me on the phone and ringing. Like the maid has to tell him because he can't hear it. Bob Shapiro, the producer says, George called me on the phone and said, when you said the director was young, I didn't think you meant this young, I've got ties older than him. Yes, sure. It's a great line. Incredible line.

But he liked, like you say, he liked the director. He and Marty sat down and tried on 150 different pairs of glasses to find a new look, because they were like, we can't have your usual glasses That's just really smart about understanding what? Aspects of George Burns a star persona are useful for this movie And which ones do you have to push to the side as in to make him stand as his comedy persona? He's kind of nanny. Yeah, he's really put together. He right if you watch him on TV

He wears really nice suits his his hair is really, he looks crisp. And he's got these kind of stylish big glasses that he wore when he got older, but they look kind of stylish. You go to the club with him. He looks successful and kind of hip for an old guy. And in this, he looks frumpy. And he's playing kind of a grumpy frump.

Or a frumpy grump. I mean a country club to be clear not like studio 54. I got you Yeah, he probably was hitting he probably would tear it up. Oh, please Smoke taking cocaine with Truman Capote and Bianca Jagger So he's in his 80s and as you said our car and he's actually younger He's in the 60s. Yeah, these Strasburg's in his mid-70s, this is his last performance basically, and he dies a couple years after this movie. It was a smaller version of what George Burns experienced, but this guy who like synthesized the method took from Stanislavski

and built this whole sort of like school of acting thought in New York City and was seen as this guru to so many of the guys who become the big leading man. Not so much known as, started as an actor, but became known as a great acting teacher. And talked about that like when he became obsessed with acting, he was like, I know what I look like. I don't have like star energy. I probably would not have the greatest career trying to pursue acting, but I'm so in love with this art form.

Do I want to keep going to the lobby and signing in when I'm 75? Lee Strasburg, writers and artists. Have many acting credits. It wasn't a thing he seriously pursued. It was Pacino who really wanted him to play Hyman Roth in Godfather Part II, which he gets an Oscar nomination for. And suddenly it's like... Gordon Willis shoots those tufts on his chest so well too. But it's another thing where like, like George Burns, people are like, God, we have this guy who's like this living history of this like important movement.

And now he's having his moment in the, in the, in the star, you know, in the spotlight. There's a nice, there's a nice meta thing of casting Hyman Roth as well because, because Strasburg's character going in style is the meekest member of the team. Right, he's not a terrifying mayor Lansky-esque. He's not a psychotic gangster who will kill people. But he has a run of like four or five years of doing a lot of movies and this is his last one.

He, Strasburg says, I was not sure why Brest wanted me because these are two comic actors, it's not really my thing. But Breast said he wanted characters who appeared real and natural, the comedy would come from that. And Strasburg was like, okay, well, that makes sense to me. Like, I can't do gags for you, but I can play a real guy. Which he does astoundingly well. I mean, this is like a stunning performance. I mean, he's so good at this.

Like, I love him in The Godfather, but that does kind of feel more like Pacino being like you know Oh, you know you know Master Strasburg and like you know he's he's it's all restraint And it's brilliant and all that but this he's so wonderful. This is like an acty role He has his one big monologue in this that is devastating, but also just any time He's just sort of sitting in a shop the presence of this guy like the weight of this guy I mean Like they're all playing different approaches to dealing with their age and Burns feels like angry like Burns is Frustrated at how old he is and how he is viewed by society and Strasburg just seems so like bereft

He is so deeply sad. And this is the interesting thing which is why do these guys do that? And there's not a lot of explaining. Apparently in the remake they do the classic remake thing. Yes. Like, oh, Willy Wonka didn't get enough chocolate when he was a kid. I refused to watch the remake, but I was horrified to learn that it disobeys everything that's good. I read a review and I thought, oh, it's one of these things where they try to spell it out too much. But they're very distinct characters

and Burns just does seem to have some kind of, Burns' character has some sort of anger going on that makes this happen. And yes, Strasburg's character is bereft. Strasburg's character is living with regret and there's this moving monologue he has about this incident where he spanked his son. And then the son died young and they never got past that event. He didn't even make it to 18, the boy.

Which I assume means- That line is crushing. The boy either died in the war or killed himself. I'm guessing it suggests that he died in World War two. That was the generation That was my guess. Yeah, and then Strasburg they never Reconciled and it was never the same between us lives with this regret Yeah but just the fact that like I watched the monologue twice because I was watching I was so in it and Then I was like wait. What was the boys transgression? I've already lost the thread and you go back and he's like

I don't even know what it was. Exactly. I don't know what he he'd done like I don't can't remember but I had the exact same experience I replayed it and watched the mall like twice in a row because I got so engrossed in the acting that I actually was Missing the meat of what he was saying. I was like this performance the the emotion he's conjuring and up until that point I mean he dies Spoilers at the 40 minute mark. He's the first to go in the, you know, terrifying slasher movie. Yes. Sort of one guy dies at the end of every act of this movie. And he has the least dialogue of the three of them up until that point.

That monologue comes like 30 minutes in and up until then he's mostly just the sad, quiet guy and just the feeling of regret within him is so palpable. He is just like silently conveying in every single moment that when the explanation comes, which Strasburg so beautifully underplays, it's like devastating. And that's, I mean, not to get ahead, but that's where I really click into like, oh, this movie isn't just the sort of high concept version

of wouldn't be funny if grandpa's robbed a bank. This is like a pretty sobering meditation. And there's also a very... There's not a very big point put on it, but there's some mild social commentary. Yes. These are three working-class guys. Yep. They live in Queens.

They live in Queens. It's... We only kind of get hinted. We learned that Strasburg's Willie was a cab driver. Yep. At one, and the only other career information we get is at one point, Art Carney's character mentions he worked as a bartender at one point. Yeah. And we don't know what George Burns did, but they, we also learned that neither George

nor Art Carney's character have ever been on a plane. So there are basically three provincial guys, they live in Queens, they're on social security, that's which is part of the reason George Burns decides to pull the job. And they're kind of, they're three nobodies. They're old school guys who no longer really recognize the culture they live in.

They also just have nothing to do. They seemingly do have families in some sense, but we don't know not having connections to them. Well, this is interesting because Al, Art Carney's character, has a nephew. The only other speaking character in the film, basically. Charles Hallahan. Hallahan from John Carpenter's The Thing. His stomach becomes a mouth and he kills Richard Dysarty.

A great role. Great role. And he did all of that. Greg Yes a great role great. He did all of that Yeah, he does all of his own he severed his own head when it was spider legs. Yes, it's all his stomach stuff. Yeah, but Yeah, I was watching it going who is this guy know this guy that I have to move Oh shit, he's part of the crew on the thing. Of course now I remember Looks like John kind of looks like John Ennis yes that's true yeah but anyway yeah they're there there is just sort of a drift they're just sort of a drift they live together but yeah he's the only family member and later in the movie George Burns looks

through a scrapbook and we see like we see a baby but we don't know that he has any connection with a child I believe that those are photos of the real Gracie Allen and George Burns Yeah, it's definitely Gracie Allen and it looks just like her yeah But but the other question is like did are his kids estranged? Did they also do? Story is valuable because like again. I'm reading about the Zach Braff remake, which it's what, Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman, and... And Alan Arkin. Like on paper, you're like,

well, it's the Academy Award winners. And it's like, oh, you know, their pensions get robbed by an evil bank, or you know, there's like motivations built into it, which you understand some screenwriter looks at this movie and is like, well, it can't just be like they sit down and are like, let's rob a bank. That doesn't make any sense They know be like getting one over on the man and like Ted Melphie who wrote it has this quote that I know read

verbatim but where he's just like, you know I hadn't even seen the original movie but I looked up what it was about and I was like two of the guys die and The third one goes to jail. That's not the kind of movie I want to write which again, I understand a 20 wins that movie 2017 like, I understand a 2017, like a studio then being like, yeah, can't end like that. Were you saying you feel there should be more backstories? No, no, no.

It's like what's incredible about this movie is, for the first like 10 minutes, you're seeing almost wordlessly three men with this relationship you don't totally understand other than it feels like some situation of convenience, three old guys who must have known each other for a while, who are not related, who all live together, who don't seem to have strong family ties even if their family is alive.

Yeah, no, and I agree because I think there's a strength to later in the movie George Burns looks at some, at a box of scrapbook type stuff, keepsakes, and there's a picture of him with a baby and a birthday card for a two-year-old. Yeah. And I'm like, I think his daughter's estranged from him. I think she's moved to California and like he's a mean old man. Right, these three guys didn't end up in a retirement home. There's a power to not really knowing.

But their family's not taking care of them. They just found a way somehow, they're in an apartment together and all they do basically... They go sit in the fucking park. They silently eat breakfast, then they go sit in the park then they shuffle back home They hope that their pension check has arrived right and then burns complains about things yeah But like you just kind of puts a bright spin on stuff He's the most affable he's the most affable of the trio But if like Strasburg seems sad and burn seems angry Carney just seems kind of mortally bored. As much as he's...

And he's also a bit of an... He's sort of the most innocent of them two. He's a bit naive. Again, they're... He's also bigger, you know, he sort of sticks out a little bit more than the other two. He's a large man and he has a kind of... One of the things I love about Art Carney's performance, which is magnificent, is that he's sort of employing his comedic

vocabulary. You can see sort of Ed Norton, not the eminent movie actor, but Art Carney's character of Ed Norton on The Honeymooners. You see Ed Norton flourishes, but they're done more naturalistically. He was like... To be clear, he played the actor Ed Norton on The Honeymooners. Of course. Yes.

Right. Yes. Well, I was supposed to be Ed Norton before he broke through. I got this big audition for Primal Fear. They're looking for an unknown. They actually think I'd be an asset to the role. Do you think I can do a lisp? He had his Yale diploma on the wall. Yeah. But Ed Norton's this guy who's like,

was sort of the Bill Irwin of his time and was this hyper-physical clown. He's the clown of his time. He's the clown of his time. Sorry, what did I say? You said Ed Norton. And Bill Irwin. No, he is a Bill Irwin. He's a clown. Art Carney was Ed Norton, which was the pro of Kramer. Sorry. What did I say? You said at Norton? No, he is a bill or a Norton which was a bill Irwin exactly performance, but but but he he has

Art Carney in the movie has this it just comes out as spontaneous behavior. Yes His honeymooners character is very is a sitcom characters. He's more heightened. He's more comedian He's he's and and in this like all of them, Art Carney gets the assignment, so all the comic flourishes come out very naturally, and, and their behavioral. When his body had changed so dramatically over decades, where like he was always this super bony, lanky guy. He's the skinny guy. Gleeson is the meat-hawks. Yeah, and he's tall, you know, which makes him so much bigger than the other two guys who are sort of shriveled. But you see the precision with which he uses his physicality, even if it isn't as broad as what he'd done earlier in his career.

But it never seems performative in the film. It always comes out of the character and just seems very, like just a natural behavioral extension of who he is. He also has all these and they never seem indulgent or unnecessary. He has all these very interesting little ticks that he keeps doing. He'll just do things with his mouth or the way he'll move his face. He takes his glasses off and kind of taps them. But it all just seems like behavior and it's great. Here's another thing about this movie. I feel like and this is also why it probably doesn't work as well remaking it in 2017 this speaks to a certain generation of guys who just like do not want to talk about their feelings yeah well I was thinking

about this though because these guys are basically not the World War generation right they're in between they like now if anything when George Burns talks about the war he's talking about the First World War so I looked it up George Burns was rejected from the army for World War I because... Too funny. Just too funny because he can't see a goddamn thing, which is why he wears very thick glasses. Art Carney actually served in World War II, but Art Carney is kind of plain older. Art Carney was in combat and injured his leg in World War II.

He kind of had a lifelong limp because of that. And Lee Strasburg served in World War II. If you said to him, like, you're in World War II, and kind of had a lifelong limp because of that. And Lee Strasberg served in World War II, if you said to him, like, you're in World War II. I'm joking about method acting. Imagine you're in World War II. I think Strasberg is probably, he's probably right on the actual age these guys are supposed to be,

and it's like, yeah, these guys didn't actually serve in either war, they're weird in between, or kind of silent, or what's even before the silent generation? You know like they don't feel like deeply repressed man know they but there is a sense of just like It's what I think this movie sets up so well at the beginning because when George Burns pitches the plan to loss This generation the last generation called George burn pitches the plan to do the stick up Maybe 12 or 15 minutes into this movie Yeah, because he saw money in a bank right to be clear that is pretty much what gives him the idea

You've just been watching them putter through the routine for the first 10 minutes It's deeply captivating this movie basically opens on extended opening credits over a three shot of them Just sitting in the park in silence next to each other and then one of them rips on a kid in the park Yes, yeah, he's mean and then they go home them rips on a kid in the park. Yes. George Burns. Yeah, he's mean and then they go home. But this sense of like, these guys might sometimes go full days without uttering a word to each other and get their best friends. They don't talk to anyone else. You know, they don't seem unhappy, but there is a certain kind of malaise. I would say they seem a little unhappy. They don't seem happy. They don't seem happy. They don't even want to watch

TV or something. Like, that's the thing I'm like guys turn on the art Tarni's Al sings while he's doing the dishes he's the happy he's sort of yeah His default is a little more glass half full ordering on catatonic and and there is this feeling of and the movie captures it Well, I mean like breast sells this well visually of how much they're sort of just being ignored by their surroundings Even the way he shoots them right it's like they're in the middle of a park We're in the foreground of the shot you have kids like running through sprinklers and all this activity And then all the way in the background of the shot are just three old guys just silently mother either way There's also another thing that Martin breast does really well

Which is and this also feels like it's the tail end of the 70s, it also feels like very 70s filmmaking vocabulary, but there's a real sense of environmental reality. And a lot of the shots of Queens and New York City, it kind of feels like dog day afternoon, or movies from that era, where there's a real sense of reality Any movie shot? neighborhood in the environment in actual New York City in the 1970s gets so much power from that Yes, it's a story. I believe is where they live and like, you know, they're just shooting there They shot the rest of the movie at coffin studios up there. And of course, they actually go to JFK

They go to the beautiful TWA terminal And there's a great sequence in Vegas. But that's it. But um, the most excitement these guys have... Oh, I like that when they go to Manhattan George Burns is like, all these people walking. How come everyone's outside? He can't even stand that people live in New York City essentially. The one thing New York is famous for, having a lot of people in it.

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normally see in these kinds of movies, they order both of them order cream cheese and jelly sandwiches. Yeah. Like they, and you know, he opens our, Carney opens the menu and I'm like, he's going to order lobster, right? They just want a bunch of money. But he just gets the same thing that George Burns just orders, cream cheese and jelly sandwich.

And then Art Carney just looks at this giant menu says, I'll have the same. He can't even begin to, he doesn't even know where to begin. And then of course, a plus would be then the waitress being like, all right, it's five cents extra for jelly. And George first like, forget it. No, but I think it's right, their tastes have not changed. Like their brains have not really expanded. And again, it's not like they're like,

we need to high roll now. It's more like they go to Vegas because they feel like they have to do something. And the scene where Arkhan is looking at the pretty lady at the slot machine. A sex worker, let's be explicit. She's very beautiful. As he would call her at the time, a hooker.

A woman. Yes. Like, again, it just kind of feels like that's beyond anything they've considered in years. It's actually a very sweet moment because he decides to play a slot machine. He notices this pretty lady looking at him and he starts to flirt with her in a very sort of sweet way. And it's like when sweet way I did that but he doesn't realize that she's working sure and also Burns comes up behind him and gives her a little shake of the head like you know we don't need your back

Yeah, yeah, but our Carney has no idea that that was a dies anyway Time in a long time this guy believes like I could be noticed. I feel like I exist again. He's using a muscle he's not used in 20, 30 years. And just his sort of... He's just experiencing joy again. They both are.

Yeah. And they're both... And they're both in a quiet way. They're both exhilarated just by being out having a good time together. They go back to their apartment. They're sort of like, wow, what a wild run. They're just having a conversation while our Carney lies in a bed and George Burns sits in a chair. They both fall asleep. Just mid conversation. George Burns wakes up and realizes that our

Carney has died and attributes it to he had too much excitement. Well, they just, they didn't even stay in the hotel. No, they just leave and the logic Is it clear well burns burns? Yeah, cuz they they end up winning a great deal of money at the casino and burn starts to freak out thinking they're making too much of a if they if they've won that much money, they're gonna The authorities are gonna notice them and he's worried about getting caught for the robbery So he doesn't want it because that's an insult paid and he's like they have they have Detectives who work here and look for thieves and then yeah, there's even though they want the money in Vegas, honestly He's afraid of talking

He's like I just want to get out of here with this money and get back to Queens right away Take it in cash not like I don't get the check And they deal with the cashier which again is a perfectly cast person who really seems like a nice cashier lady Yeah, doesn't seem like an actor dealing with these old men. Yes, who there's no shtick involved It's great between I think the robbery in the Vegas sequence. I forget where lands exactly, but there's the the scene we alluded to briefly of George Burns looking through sort of like the memory box. Yeah, we talked about it.

But then he pisses himself while crying and stands up and goes to the bathroom. And he's like full circle, I'm a baby again. Yeah, like a scene that could be played so broad and silly and even describing it right now you're like, how could that be pulled off in a way that is emotionally resonant and he stands up and just goes to the bathroom and is just like I'm just crying and pissing myself yeah he says I guess the goddamn cycle is complete now. Yeah, he should have gotten an Oscar nomination. And it is funny but it's equally sad and touching. I would have given all three of these guys Oscar nominations. Well, it's tough to give Yeah

Let's see. It's a it's a good year Dustin Hoffman Kramer versus Kramer is best actor right Roy Scheider All that jazz Roy Scheider all that jazz Peter Sellers being there, which is obviously yeah Al Pacino and injustice for all which is not a movie. I love very much, but it's Al Pacino I'm gonna bump out working Yeah, that's a bump for me and Jack lemon for the China syndrome, which he's awesome in Then I guess that's sort of the softest nom there, and it's fucking Jack Hitters and that one and then supporting order is Duvall in Apocalypse now Which insanely does not win Melvin Douglas wins for wings there. It good? All right. That's also thank you, Melvin Douglas, for your years of service.

Lovely performance. Mickey Rooney and the Black Stallion. That's a weird, famously weird. Thank you for your years of service. Tilt the hat to the mixer, but maybe that's a bump for Elise Trossford. They're like, Mickey, thank you for not playing Asian in this one. That's all. That's why we're, at least you're playing an Irish girl. Frederick Forrest in the Rose, which is a really cool nomination actually. And then the kid in Kramer versus Kramer, Justin Henry.

Which you probably want to vote. He's good. He's great in the ice cream scene. But you know, yeah, maybe you get one of the old guys in there, but I guess it's kind of like, well, we've already given these guys trophies. They've had their laurels. Just Strasburg hadn't done it. Strasburg could have. But I agree with you.

No one's phoning it in. They're all really committing to these performances. The performances have dimension and nuance. They understand the assignment. And as you said, too many of the voters, though, were like, Strasburg gave me a D. This movie? That's right. Strasburg was not very well liked in the theater community.

I mean, I think he was a prickly fella. He was considered a bit of a major asshole. Yeah, he doesn't seem like the easiest guy. I once met Cloris Leachman and she had been in the Cloris Leachman. No, I said, ooh. Oh, I think you said, ooh. I love Cloris Leachman. And I was astonished that you said, ooh.

No, you said, ooh. And I asked her about the actor's studio and she said, oh, Lee Strasburg was a real cocksucker. That sounds like something she would say too. And it was kind of great seeing, now that was schticky old person talking dirty comedy, but it was real life. But Clarice Leachman, I mean, I would have paid for just 200 minutes of her on a Broadway stage doing schticky old person, you know, say cocksucker. Like that sounds great.

By the way, she was wearing an outfit that looked like she'd bought it at Forever 21. It was like some sort of fashionable workout outfit. She looks super cool. She has finally departed this moral protocol. She has. We lost, I mean, she was about 15. She was 94 years old. She only died a year or two ago?

Yeah, two years ago. Because I remember like when she did Malcolm in the Middle, right? And it's like, oh yeah, of course, of course, she's kind of playing a grandma now. And then she did Raising Hope, which was like 15 years later, and you're like, she's still just playing grandmas! Like she's got like three cycles of grandma in her! She wanted to reprise her role in Young Frankenstein for the Broadway musical. Oh, that would have been amazing. And Mel Brooks said he wouldn't do it because he was worried about the insurance policy of her having to dance

Every night. I mean she was bussing in her eighties. Yeah another ten years and she she to spiked him I believe went on dancing with the stars the following cycle to be like I'm not falling down Mel. She's a regular George Burns. Yeah Okay Just to finish the plot suddenly. It's like George Burns is all alone It bring right he gives them all of the money to Pete at this point and Pete by the way confesses Confesses yes, yes that it was actually robbery not an insurance policy And they're like we want to give you this money that they're like so you can open your own gas station That's the right and he's heard on the news broadcasts that they think there might be leads

There are bits and radio broadcasts and the last one says the FBI is on the case. So George knows that the heat is closing in. Can you imagine this becoming like an exciting news story for the New York Post to be like three old guys wrapped in paper? It's almost like they're going insane. It's such tabloid fodder. Right. The media would have killed them.

They were in groucho glasses. And everybody would be on the side of these old guys too. Yeah. And Burns is like, I don't know what it is, but something must have been sloppy. And we never do learn what it is. He just gets pinched. There's a great scene where he's going to go to Al's funeral and he puts on a suit. He's by himself and again the only reason they put on a suit is to go to a funeral or to do a bank robbery. And then there's a very interesting moment where he shuts off, like he shuts off the lights,

he's gonna go to the funeral, and right before he leaves the apartment, he looks at the apartment, and then he exits. And it's like he's having a premonition, like this is, I'm saying goodbye to this place. Like he knows he's gonna get pinched. But it's not played in a super obvious way. It's very subtle.

No, and also- And then he goes outside and is immediately arrested. You have imagine if not pinched he's like I might have a heart attack before I make it back here yeah my friends are dropping off but he looks at his home yes in a way that's like I this might be the last look I have there are two very likely scenarios in which he never returns to that apartment yes either he gets thrown in jail or she dies exactly and either one could be happening at any moment well and he gets pinch in jail or she dies exactly and either one could be happening at any moment Well and he gets pinched gives this final great like fucking speech I can see I kind of smarmy FBI guy comes in and says look you know

Tell us where the money is and we'll go easy on you. Yeah, and he's like Go to hell. He's essentially like I did I'd rather die away Put me away, but I'm not going to tell you where the money is. You can't scare me. What can you throw at me that is worse than my oncoming death that I cannot avoid? Yes. And as we all know, of course, he's going to live another 20 years because that's what George Burns went ahead and did.

He's probably going to be running that prison. He's got four more major movies left in my high He's gonna start the theater company at the prison Yeah, but Pete comes to the last scene is he goes to the prison to visit him and he says He says they treat me like a king around here, which I'm sure yeah, they're all like this is the baddest motherfucker in the joint He's like the foods okay, yeah, and I have my own toilet. That's one of the perks. But that's part of his argument at the beginning when he's pitching it to the guys is like worst case scenario they put us in jail. That's our rent paid for.

They have to feed us all day. All our social security checks accumulate and we'll come out with like thousands of dollars. So it was all worth it. It was all worth it. I mean the only sacrifice he had to make was his own life, I guess. But right, what was his life anyway? Yeah. But it's still a sad ending, or an incredibly melancholy ending. Whereas I believe, again, the Zach Braff remake

ends with everyone going to see Garden State in a big multiplex or whatever happens in that movie. Morgan Freeman plays the shins for Michael Caine. It'll change your life. But that movie just feels like it's kind of generically doing like, Ocean's 81 or whatever, right? Like, it's not this. It's just what if old guys did a crime?

Well, yeah, absolutely. This, on paper, this sounds generic as hell. But maybe that's because we've had the last 40 years of that approach to this kind of story. Same with Beverly Hills Cop though. Same with Midnight Run where you're like, we've been living in an era of seeing like the shittier versions of the things

that Martin Bress perfected. I mean, Going in Style is basically a movie coming off of a trend of like, Las Vegas and stand up guys. There was like that whole run of like, oh, you put four old legendary Oscar-winning leading men in a movie where they're playing like misbehaving dudes. What's the Tim Allen one?

Wild Hogs. Wild Hogs. Right, that's the middle-aged version of that basically. I think that's interesting about this too. You're talking about like out of the gate, how this seems like someone who's made many more of films? Yeah, because if it's the power of its restraint which it seems like something you only learn after you make a lot of movies Is that? It sort of has all the elements of all the films but in a more restrained way

so it has it kind of has it has the criminal comedy element of Beverly Hills Cut and Midnight Run. Mitchell Black is explicitly about death, which he always said was his major obsession. But also, Scent of a Woman and Mitchell Black are kind of, he leans on sentiment in those. I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing, but the sentiment is leaned on a bit more. In fact, the sentiment and the sort of grandness of the stories drives those movies in the way that the plot mechanics drives Beverly Hills Cop in Midnight Run. It's what I don't understand about what happened to it.

But this has sentiment and plot, but it's much more low key. And again, that's the power of it. I just don't understand. And maybe I'm going to watch me, Joe Black Joe Black and be like this is an underrated gem But I don't think so because it's not a very popular movie and what I've seen of it. I did not respond to I don't really understand how this guy kind of lost a little bit and got lost in the weeds of like both movie stardom And these like very all of these later movies are very long and like not All of these later movies are very long and like not economical as this film is like you know like I really like the well It's yes. It's very blank checky. Yeah, because he gets to do these overlong

Somewhat grandiose films near the end, and I agree I I don't think they're as good as the early funny ones and right well one of those But also like he becomes a runaway shoot guy. He becomes, like, James L. Brooks is very similar to this, where it's like, oh, now it becomes you've got to give the master his time and space, because he just knows it when he sees it, and he has to keep doing scenes over and over again, and rewriting, and re-editing. No one's going, Kubrick's going over budgets, so you've got to finish this thing up. Right. He's got, and there is, is the irony is there is freedom in the grid there is freedom in the limitations

Mm-hmm, and that's very Powerful you see that in this definitely this one was a hit I want you to guys to understand that it came out of Christmas is worth our success still Mr.. Hollywood it was like an a cup Still mr. Hollywood. It was like an a cup It wasn't a big breasted hit on the level of Beverly Hills A shepherd's crook that you can you know yank him with now? Can I just do a sidebar here, please so my son Severin urbaniac who was mentioned on the prior podcast that we did on Buster Keaton.

Who is here in the studio with us today, who I used to babysit when I would fly out to LA for auditions and such. It's true. You may not remember this. I didn't know that. You were very young. I'd stay on your couch for free and in exchange I would give you and your then-wife date nights. When Griff was in LA sometimes, when you were very young, he came came over and watched But then you guys met in LA a couple months ago and I was after the play, but I Seven was gonna just hang out in the studio today But I wanted him to see the film so he wouldn't be completely at sea as we talked about this for sure hours But he's a young man was about to turn 18 and what were your thoughts in this film?

Well, thank you James slash my dad. I liked it a lot. You liked it a lot. So here's a young person who's still responding to the, to this 40-year-old movie about old guys. And if you like the movie, here's a pitch for you. There's a movie in which George Burns plays an 18-year-old.

Or 17? I've never seen that film. What film is that? No, that film's 18 Again? 18 Again, where a George Burns, it's in the bodies, I don't know if it's a body swap, but George Burns suddenly becomes young in the early 80s. And a young actor who I believe is named Charlie Shlatter. I believe that is correct. Years later, we had the same voiceover agent and I met Charlie Shlatter in LA.

But I've never seen that film. So a young man gets to chomp the guards and go, wow, that was radical, dudes. Most of the movie, I guess, he's not on screen. I know Harry Truman. He's not on screen and it's Charlie Schlatter doing a George Burns. And I'm guessing his friends are like, hey, do you want to go to the movies? And he's like, sure, is the new Ingrid Bergman picture bright? And stuff like that.

I don't know if I can go to the Nickelodeon. My wrist is hurting. Literally about to make an Nickelodeon joke. I can say another thing. Please, please. Yes, I do agree that it was very reserved, for sure. When the guys die, it's kind of sudden. When it happens, it's a couple scenes, but it doesn't really feel like, it's surprising,

but it's not really shocking. Yeah, and I think that's part of the theme of the thing. That's because death is such a normal part of these guys' lives. It's still sad and painful, but that is kind of the point. It's not shocking. In fact, it's so not shocking. Like we said, it's mundane. mundane Martin Brest in interview last year and they were asking him about what made him write this movie when he was in his 20s

yep and he said even in my 20s when I did going in style it seemed to me the biggest possible issue mortality what could be a bigger idea than that I think that's a good point said because also the deaths are not major plot turns at all. It's just what happened. It's just what happened. It's true. Yeah. And by the way, can I just, we touched on it briefly, but another sequence that also feels like he's just shooting and letting stuff happen is this great sequence where they've,

they're going to do the thing. It's before the robbery, but they're all in a good mood because they're going to do this thing. So they have something to do. And they're walking, they've gone to scope out the bank. They scope at the bank the day before they do it. The dance sequence. They literally just go to a bank in Manhattan and Burns is like, this will work. All right, we doubt we'll do it. Can you get the guns tonight? Great. We'll do it tomorrow. He has some mind like, why do we have, it's a bank's a bank. And then they're walking in like midtown and there's some guys, there's like a steel drum

combo. And Lee Strasburg starts bopping his head and then Carney kind of looks at him. And then almost like, there's a thing where also Carney now and then goofs on Lee Strasburg a little bit and he starts goofing on him. But then Carney does this sort of eccentric art Carney dance and the crowd is into it.

And it's incredibly charming. And it's just a, and it goes on for a little while and it's just about this guy with joy in his life again for you know for a minute and Carney's really funny but again he's not being sticky with it he's it just seems like the way this guy would happily dance and it's and you go along with it it's a very joy go along with it. It's a very joyous, real moment and people are enjoying it. But again, it doesn't feel staged. It feels like it's actually happening. It has a documentary quality to it. And that's the

strength of, of so many of the sequences in the film. There's another moment like that where when Burns is going to each teller during the bank robbery, he keeps like complimenting them. Yeah, and he's kind of making little jokes, but it's like the anecdote that Burns told. They're not George Burns style wisecracks. They're just things that George Burns... There's a moment in the casino where Burns says something like, why don't you give me more money? I'm being funny. Like he actually says that. But yeah, at one point he says to like the teller,

the jokiest joke is a teller fills the bag, he goes, You're doing a good job. Ask your boss to give you a raise. Yeah. But again, it feels like Joe just in a good mood. It doesn't feel like a famous comedian doing shtick in a movie. I was struggling to find Anything that backed this up, but I was curious if like did this movie did these guys even get like Golden Globe

Acting nominations or whatever this film played at the Venice Film Festival in 1980 the year after it was released Yes, they won the joint award. Yes, the Paz and Eddie award, which it seems like there was a 10-year run where the Venice Festival Didn't give out Acting awards, but there was a sort of Pazzanetti Award that was for some other extra like Accomplishment related to a film. Who's Pazzanetti? I would tell you in film figure a PM Pazzanetti Pasolini's cousin. Yeah Was he was a like one of the first Italian film critics. I think he's like an early, you know, person.

His award still exists. I don't know the arcane details. The three of them split a best actor award, but not when there was a designated best actor trophy. It was sort of like the Pasadena this year goes to these three guys for acting, which I thought was cool. Anyway, this movie was a hit? This movie was a hit. It was a, know a soft slow word-of-mouth success

but it's very word-of-mouth see it made 30 million dollars having cost five so it was obviously like you know a very worthwhile little thing it is kind of funny to think it got good reviews Siskel liked it can be lukewarm in the it. Can be lukewarm in the... Can be soft and lukewarm. ...in the New York Times. He was a bit of a grump. I will say Cisco, who you and I agree was never the finest writer, his going in style review is really good. It's kind of one of the more beautiful pieces of wording I've ever seen out of him.

Yeah, I think Cisco gets the, I'm not as good a writer rap because Ebert was a better writer than him, but like I've read Cisco reviews where I'm like, you know Yeah, this guy had the juice Let's play the box office game. Also, of course, it was famously remade by Zach Braff and explicably starring a bunch of guys The film came out at Christmas 1979 Griffin. Okay, it's opening at number 10. Mm-hmm. So it's not in the top five Christmas 79 very exciting.. Can you place yourself? 77, I am a sophomore in high school. Okay, so you probably would have been interested,

I'm gonna say, in some of these movies. Yeah, I don't know that I was, this is funny, because I was on another podcast recently, where I was trying to remember like, when Star Wars came out, what movies I saw in 77, and there were very few. So I wasn't going to the movies a lot in high school. But this is interesting, we'll see how I do. So the number one film at the box office

is I am not sure how you feel about this franchise, but I feel like you might like it a little bit. It's a science fiction film. Is it Star Trek The Motion Picture? Correct. Ooh, okay, yeah, I saw it when it came out with my friend, Dan, who I often went, if I went to the movies, I went with my friend Dan and Dan was kind of a sci-fi nerd. He later, later wrote for Starlog magazine. Oh, that's cool. We've quoted from Starlog

many times. I saw Capricorn one was Dan. Not a bad movie. Um, but you're so you're not a huge Star Trek guy, but you saw it. It was a big movie. I didn't really watch Star Trek. Like I just didn't, I wasn't that into it, but it was just, I went to the movie cause it was a big deal. I remember what a big deal it was. It was the big, obviously it's somewhat disappointed, but people I think confuse that with it was still a massive hit. It just cost a lot of money to make so that's number one it's been number one for a month well number two is the film

that will win Best Picture of 1979 another gigantic hit but it's just beginning its run. The deer hunter. No I think the year before. It's not Craner versus Craner. It is Craner versus Craner. Which was the highest grossing film of its year. I mean like it's one of those things though where it's like it's just beginning its run yes okay so obviously a huge grosser now number three is a comedy Griffin One of your guys one of his early hits. It's not the jerk. It is the jerk It is the jerk. I saw that in the theater. I thought you might have seen that too. Probably with Dan again my movie buddy. Yeah That must have been incredible to see first run. I can remember

Moments, I can remember the laughter in the theater at moments. Yeah. But I even smelt like pizza in a cup. I remember getting a big laugh in the theater. Everything in that movie was funny. Pretty funny. I watched that again a few weeks ago and it really holds up. I think it is still...

Directed by Carl Reiner who really knows how to direct comedy. One of the funniest movies I've ever made. I'm obsessed with it. I think a lot of Steve Martin stuff holds up better than almost any other comedy of that era. His whole body of work I think makes more sense than a lot of guys who you point at and go like you kind of had to be there. There was a thing going on in the culture.

And it's all the more fascinating because he's gone through so many cultural shifts of what his persona is. I'm very excited to watch that documentary. hear it's good will have been out by many months by the time this comes out um the sequence when he is leaving at the end shit in the world and the object grabbing things classic sequence I don't need anything one of the most famous comedy sequences ever I would argue I think about it kind of all the time I think it's just one of the best pieces of comedy acting. Yeah, I think that movie has 15 of those.

Yeah, like I think that's probably the best one, but you're like there are 15 things in that movie I could point to where I'd be like that's like an instructional for the funniest I think could be. Yeah. Yeah. And the late Emmett Walsh doing a brilliant turn recently late. Hates these cans. And then the equally funny payoff when he shows up and sort of sheepishly apologizes for trying to kill us. Yeah, I just got divorced and also I quit smoking. That's the reason. And that being the build up of the phone book. That movie is so well constructed.

I remember, it's a classic line, but I remember, I can remember being in the theater and he hates these cans getting a huge laugh. Yeah. I wish I could have been. He hates these cans is just very funny. Number four at the box office. It is a family sci-fi film. A family sci-fi film in 1979.

So this is a sci-fi film that's rated G? Is that what you're saying? I believe it has a PG. Actually, it was notoriously the first film from the studio to get a PG rating. Oh, it's a Disney film? Is it The Black Hole? The Black Hole.

Didn't I guess that already? Did you? Has that just been in my mind? Perhaps. It's probably just in your mind. It feels like, again, like a bit of a James movie. But earlier you said science fiction. Possibly it came up then.

And then I thought, I was thinking think of so it was in my head But you guys said it first so you win nobody's winning anything except for not you'll get a participation trophy It is funny that like this is 79 Hollywood clearly responding to 77 Star Wars and close encounter I'm not so big right and then they return with like Star Trek and Black Hole, both of which are so slow, that are borderline art films, of just like watching people move through space as slowly as possible. This may present Andrei Tarkovsky as the Black Hole. Black Hole is closer to Solaris than you would imagine. I would say exactly that. Like the Black Hole makes Star Trek the motion picture look picture look like, you know, death race, like, you know what I mean? Like the black hole is a black hole. The black hole, but it's one of the most ponderous studio films. It's very ponderous.

It's like Maximilian shell and Anthony Perkins. Like it's all these kinds of like the corner of the ship and, and the robots, of course, how we had to stay. But yeah, it's a, it's, it's a movie that every time I've watched it Which is like two and a half times. I've been like I'm really gonna like it this time and I'm always like Yeah, I watched it when I have insomnia and it really does the trick Oh, it's really good for that number five of the box office is a film with movie stars That was a hit but I think is pretty and a big director but is pretty forgotten It got kind of mixed reviews was a disaster film. No, it's pretty forgotten. It got kind of mixed reviews. Was it a disaster film?

No, it's like a sort of comedy drama. Can I ask like the age of these movie stars? How established are they at this point? Very established at this point. I would say... Middle-aged type people? Well, let's say like, you know, late 30s or 40s. Is it a Neil Simon? Good guess though. Right, I'm thinking like that.

It's not like a Four Seasons type thing. What did you say the genre? It's like a comedy drama, but it does have a Western tinge to it. It has a Western tinge. It's a Western tinge. 1979. 1979 Western tinge.

Was how sick? Old school movie stars. The film was successful. It made $60 million on a $10 million budget. Huh. The film's kind of well known for a musician making his acting debut in it. Is it Pector and Billy the Kid? No.

Solid guess though. I think that was a little earlier. Yeah. That's of course Bob Dylan. Is Mr. Willie Nelson. That is correct. Willie Nelson is making his acting debut. Willie Nelson plays a man in prison.

That's Thief. Okay. I was thinking of Thief. But that is not this film. It's called Ramblin' Bros, is it? No, that's a man in prison. That's Thief. Okay, I was thinking of Thief. But that is not this film. It's called Ramblin' Bros, is it? No, that's a really good movie. That's much later. Willie Nelson's acting debut, Western.

Is Willie Nelson a supporting role of one of the principal characters? No, he is. It looks like he's the fourth lead here. And it's kind of forgotten, you said? This movie, I think, is forgotten now, yes. But again, like it was a reasonably sized hit but given the two major stars and the major director I think it was seen as underwhelming. You might not know this movie I don't know you probably know the title. What is it? It's directed by

Sidney Pollock. Okay. If that helps it stars Robert Redford and Jane Fonda. The Electric Horseman. The film is called The Electric Horseman. I do know that title. Which is what? It's like he's an old rodeo guy and like, you know. Never seen it. I just, yeah. Once you said that. Great to know. Is it that or Rhinestone Cowboy? As a very young person, it hasn't entered into my time.

No, it is not remembered. It's not big on TikTok? Yet. I don't have TikTok. Look, you don't even know who Tom is not. It's not big on TikTok? Yet. I don't have TikTok. Look, you don't even know who Tom Green is. That's how young you are. We were talking about Tom Green before Mike,

who now feels like George Burns. Kind of, or like something else though, like who, you know, some old vaudevillian where by the 50s he'd been forgotten. But Sam, you got to admit that the Alessia Corseman is a pretty cool title. It's good title. It does sound great.

Yeah. The other movies in the top 10, 1941, The Spielberg, Mega Flop. You got to admit that the Alessia Corseman is a pretty cool title. It's a good title. It's not sound-breaking. Yeah. The other movies in the top ten. 1941, the Spielberg mega flop. Ah, yes. Although it actually made money. It's a bounce. His first World War II film.

Yes. Apocalypse Now. Big hit of 1979. A movie called Roller Boogie starring Linda Blair. Cool. Which I don't really know. The Rose, which is the Bette Midler movie, she gets an Oscar nomination for.

Sure. And Going In Style. Right. Incredible. By the way, the score, kind of a pastiche of a 1930s jazz score. But real good. Going In Style that works.

Got a little banjo. Michael Small. Michael Small has a little banjo in it. Yeah. Very Waka Waka, you know. I need to go take my little cousin to see Godzilla X Kong. Okay. What's it called again? The New Empire? Either a or the New Empire. But James, thank you so much for being here. Thank you. I need to take my son back to New Jersey to see my family. Who are the Godzilla X Kong of New Jersey your family an old empire My dad is the Godzilla of the family a towering figure

So we all have the same plans tonight Yeah, who's the Kong that's the quit that's what you need to resolve tonight, maybe it's James James Is there anything you want to plug? I'm in an app. There's an Apple Plus series called Palm Royale Starring Kristen Wiig. Oh, yes, which I hear is so funny. I've heard only incredible things. Kristen Wiig plays a lady trying to socially climb 1960s Palm Beach. Carol Burnett. Carol Burnett is in it who I had I don't have any scenes with but who I met at a table reading I must say She's sort of a George Burns where she's still going.

I was honored to meet her and I told her if I said, which is true, if my late mother had only known that I would be working with Carol Burnett someday, she would get quite a kick out of that. That's pretty well. I'm sure Carol Burnett, God bless her, gets a lot of people coming after being like, it is a true honor to meet you. But she handled it with a plumb. But she handled it very nicely to me.

And then there's a handful of independent films. There's an Indie called Break Up Season that just won a bunch of awards at a festival in Utah. So where I play a dad. It's a bit of a stretch. So that's gonna be on the festival circuit. Look for that. Directed by a very talented guy named Nelson Tracy.

I look very smart. Very smart, very smart young man. I had a joke and he said, that's a good James Ivaniak joke, but not a good Mr. Breakup joke. Got neckties older than him. Yeah, I got neckties older. I have mouse pads older than him. And of course, you know, Oppenheimer, if you haven't seen that. Yeah, let's give Oppenheimer the blank check. That movie's not really getting... I can be briefly glimps know, Oppenheimer, if you haven't seen that. Yeah, let's give Oppenheimer the blank shambles.

That movie's not really getting... I can be briefly glimpsed of Oppenheimer. In which you play Kurt Gödel, who I believe had George Bernsy glasses. He had circle glasses. I do. I have little circle glasses and that. I don't have a cigar, but I... Well, but half there.

I'm an Easter egg. Kurt Gödel is sort of a... for math geeks. He was a famous physicist. And so I didn't think I'd make the cut, but somehow Mr. Nolan kept me in. You stuck to Einstein like white on rice or whatever. I just stayed in the shot, I always tried to stay in the shot with Einstein,

so he can see me waving like I'm photobombing. You made the cut, and I feel like I heard so many blankies talk about at their screenings doing the fucking dicaprio at the screen I got a lot of text from friends who had no idea was in it Yeah yesterday a friend of mine actually seemed to get angry with me because his suspension of disbelief shattered to the floor and fucking James Her bad Well, that's not I know who that is. I also met demons in the movie that didn't suspend your disbelief. Yeah, it's kind of it's a mad mad mad I also met Damon's in the movie that didn't suspend your disbelief. Yeah, it's kind of it's a mad mad mad

Yeah, someone turns around. Hey, look who it is. It's Phil Silver's should have been the title Thank you for being here James always a pleasure and thank you all for listening Please remember to rate review and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for Co-producing the show. Thank you to Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for Co-producing the show. Thank you to Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for Their artwork. Thank you to AJ McKeon and Alex Bear and for our editing Lee Montgomery in the great American novel for our theme song JJ Birch for our Research I should mention AJ McKeon also production coordinator on the show You can go to blank check pod comm for links to some real nerdy shit Including our patreon blank check special features next episode is hot dogs for Gauguin and hot tomorrows in two days there

We go, we're doing a temporal pincer movement moving back to his two guarantors basically And also doing tabletop games correct or are we still on turtles? It looks like we are still on turtles, then we're still turtling turtle turtle tune next week for Beverly Hills cop Good movie a wildly successful film That's true Turtle. Tune next week for Beverly Hills Cop. Good movie. A wildly successful film. That's true. I'm getting calls from the same spam people call me every day. Just happens every day. Great. And as always, George Burns lived another 17 years after this movie was made.