Blank Check with Griffin & David - Gone Girl with Esther Zuckerman

Episode Date: November 12, 2023

“Amazing Amy” meets “Awkwardly-Smiling Affleck” in Fincher’s darkly comic masterpiece - an instant classic from that first shot of Rosamund Pike’s pretty head. The delightful Esther Zuckerman (who will definitely NOT “gone girl” her boyfriend) joins us to discuss this impressive work of adaptation. We’re asking all the big questions - is “Amazing Amy” actually a good children’s book? Did Tyler Perry take any directing tips from David Fincher when he made BOO! A MADEA HALLOWEEN? Would this movie work as well with Reese Witherspoon and Jon Hamm as the two leads? Why haven’t we gone long on the career of one Benjamin G. Affleck yet? Guest Links:  Buy Esther’s Book Beyond the Best Dressed Pre-Order Esther’s Book Falling in Love at the Movies This episode is sponsored by: Masterclass (masterclass.com/check) Stamps.com (CODE: CHECK) Mubi (mubi.com/blankcheck) Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com or at teepublic.com/stores/blank-check

You fucking podcast. I'm the podcast you married. The only time you liked yourself was when you were trying to be someone this podcast might like. I'm not a quitter. I'm that podcast. I killed for you. Who else can say that?

You think you'd be happy with a nice Midwestern podcast? No way, baby. I'm it. That's what I thought you were going to do. Thank you. Man. I couldn't do all of Cool Girl,

despite the fact that it will disappoint some people. You doing Cool Girl, I would have actually quit the podcast. You would have quit. Yep. Would have been, not because it's too long, because the idea of you saying some of that

would be a little tough. You married this podcast. You can't quit. I quit. I would quit. You can't quit. In that moment, I know I'm like,

no, no, no, I quit. I quit. I'll go to jail. It's. In that moment, I know. I'm like, no, no, no, I quit. I quit. I'll go to jail. It's fine. Jail. Jail for me. You're not in Missouri. This is the podcast you fell in love with, David.

You can't get out of it now. No, Missouri does have the death penalty. No, I said you're not in Missouri. Oh, yeah. But New York also has the death penalty. Yeah. FYI. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David.

I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce.

Baby! Mm-hmm? This is a miniseries on the films of David Fincher. It is called The Curious Pod of Benjamin Buttcast. We're only going to get to say that one more time. Oh, that's so sad for you. Second to last one we're recording. Yeah. Yes. Listeners will hear it multiple more times.

Yeah, we've only got The Killer left to do after this. Yeah, but also, by the way, there's only one film chronologically for listeners in between this and The Killer. Alright, alright. It's kind of, it remains wild that he goes cold for so long after this movie.

He made a TV show. We've talked about it so many times, but it's just very indicative of what changed in the industry over the last nine years. He had to make. He had to make it up, but it took six years to get to make after this.

It did. Yeah, it took him six years. Yeah, it's wild to well to me i don't know we're talking about gone girl today a movie that fucking slaps and rocks and rules and fucks right a wonderful film i introduced our guests but also it was can i say it you're gonna say big titty it was a big titty tit. It was a floppy dick tit. It was a floppy dick tit. It was a big, flaccid, shower salamied hit. I know I

don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves, but I did that we were going to talk about the dick first. I messaged David. Okay. Let's set it up now. We can bring it back later I feel like you said you'd never I never

really like clocked the enormity yeah before when I was watching it this time I was really like I've seen this movie yeah countless times especially the back half because it's like on TV a lot and I'll put it on and just be like I'm to watch the end of this movie.

You still have TV? Oh yeah, I love having TV. It's the best. I've been thinking about getting back into TV. No, you've got to have cable. What are your channels? We have all of basic cable, all the sports channels and HBO and Showtime.

Not stars? Not stars. Cinemax? No. Wow. The movie channels I miss having. The movie channels are kind of fun to have, but... That's how I've watched the end of Gone Girl so many times. It locks you into watching movies that you've seen. Yeah, but I like that.

Yeah, I like it. Get cable. Yeah. But I guess I was just saying that, like, this time I just really honed in on the dick because i knew we were going to talk about it so it's just like chunky boy i gasped at the world premiere of this film when i saw the dick i've been with it since day one i was with among the first people to see it and i was like oh shit like you know i was right there with it and as i was walking out

i was like you know a little glimpse of, and the people were like, really? Like, immediately I had the experience of some people not really clocking. Yeah, people didn't clock it. And I saw this film at least twice in theaters. And I feel like my opinion on the dick changed depending on where I was sitting in the theater, too. You know, it is kind of like, and some people were like, I didn't see it at all. And it's like, might have been a mat problem, you know, with kind of like and some people were like i didn't see it at all and it's like

might have been a mat problem you know with the projection at your theater like it is the kind of thing you can kind of miss like the the for a man who is so compositionally specific he does not construct that frame to draw your attention to the dick you almost need to know like a fun little surprise i'm looking for the dick and it's only at the one getting embarrassing okay let's move off the subject i think that's under discussed is that you also see on neil patrick harris's dick no that i was like the reason that's under discussed is you see it immediately and it's covered in blood yeah yeah so i missed it yeah it's brief it's got a bloody dick but i mean again it bloody dick Both of these are incidental Viewings of nudity

It's not like the movies Like zoom in And playing like a guitar Which maybe it should That kind of sounds fun Well when you see Neil Patrick Harris' dick You are in the middle of going like Jesus Christ And the music is going like

You know and you're like oh my god Like you're in the middle of going like, Jesus Christ. And the music is going like, you know, and you're like, oh my God. Like you're not really like. The reason why it always jumps out to me when I watch it is it's the kind of thing. Yes. Okay. This is what our podcast is. This is the podcast you married. I know, it's just right at the start.

And Marie just texted us about the button episode having a lot of dick talk, which I didn't even remember. And I'm like, what are we doing? Go on, go on. Sorry, go on. Dick's in the button episode having a lot of dick talk, which I didn't even remember. And I'm like, what are we doing? Go on, go on. Sorry, go on. Dick's in the button episode? Apparently. Are you not checking your texts? Yeah, I was.

Look, the thing about the Neil Patrick Harris dick, and this is the point, this is to your point of it being kind of incidental nudity. Every time I watch the movie and she's about to dismount him, I'm like conditioned

by watching so many other movies that don't do this where i'm like how are they going to frame this so you don't see his dick right sure like there right there's somehow suddenly his underwear is back up or whatever it is right well but she he couldn't have done that because of course but i see those moments in other movies where i'm like you're cheating and it took me out of it for a second. And in fact, it jumps out to you less watching this because you're just like, oh, they're not cheating. They're doing the thing you actually see in this moment.

This is an episode on Gone Girl. Our guest is Esther Zuckerman. Hey, what's up? We're going straight into the deep end. Yes. Welcome, Esther, to Blank Check for basically... So we're saying it's your sixth time? Last time we said it was my fifth time,

but we can just say it was my fifth time this time. The asterisk is... It's your fifth film discussed on Blank Check, not including Special Features. I think you did one of those. We just did an episode with Katie Rich recently that will come out 15 years from now. Oh, that's right.

Yeah, and that... She similarly has an asterisk on her record We just did an episode with Katie Rich recently that will come out 15 years from now. Oh, that's right. Yeah. And that she similarly has an asterisk on her record because of the Titanic episode being split in two. But I've always argued because Kill Bill style that was shot as one episode. It should count as one whether I'll do anything with you coming back. I did come back to the studio. You did, which is true. But still, this is your fifth film discussed on this show. I think apart from, of course, you get back weeks later. I did come back to the studio to record that. You did, which is true. But still, this is your fifth film discussed on this show. Yes, I think it's like five.

You get two fifth episode celebrations. Captain Marvel, which apparently you did the commentary for. I did. I can't remember that. I did.

The Marvels in cinemas soon. Yeah. Yeah. America can't wait. Beating down the doors. Esther, welcome. Thank you. I'm so excited

to be here for this episode i know you are i'm so excited i didn't get bummed for the more famous person let's just talk about it let's just tell you let's get dicks booking issues yeah does everyone want to know who couldn't make it for zodiac should we talk about that we could talk about that no we don't don't. Sorry, I was being rude. No, no. I think, look, I think we had, there was, there was. No, we shouldn't. All right, go ahead. Go ahead.

No, I'm just going to say this. There was another episode we offered that I think would have been good. Yes. Yeah, yeah. I had two options. Yeah, you had a good backup. I had a good backup. Yes, of course.

And in fact, we need to book that backup episode now. We do need to book that now. And there was, there was, I think a pretty, there was a channel of transparency on all sides. I would have, I would have bowed down and sort of exited gracefully.

There was a famous person where it was like, specifically might be a very good fit for this episode. Of course. And there was a pathway to that person

and it like took a while to pin down whether or not it was going pathway to that person. And it like took a while to pin down whether or not it was going to happen. Yes. But you had pinned this very early on for a very specific reason that I think we should just get out of the way. Oh, really? Is there a reason I'm unaware of? Well, no. I mean, it was, it was. You said you wanted to share this anecdote. Well, yeah. it was funny because oh i know what you're talking about so uh bob my boyfriend um had told me like when we watched this movie we were not together when this movie came out in 2014 we got together the following year he was dating someone else when this movie came he was dating someone else when this movie came out and they saw it together this is bes bes and afterwards bz sorry bez afterwards um apparently

she told him uh that she would like to do this to him she was like wait wait that's what it was she was like i'm gonna go she was like she was like i would like to gone girl you basically but like she said this is sort of like i'm so mad at you so i now will want to gone girl yeah yeah okay okay because it'd be weird if it was like we're doing great it'd be so fun to gone She said this as a sort of like, I'm so mad at you, so I now will want to Gone Girl you? Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Because it'd be weird if it was like, we're doing great. It'd be so fun to Gone Girl you. No, no, no. Was it said in the heat of an argument or was it said?

No, I think it was more just like casually after they saw the movie. Maybe I'll Gone Girl you. So it was just like walking out of the theater of like, that might be the solution. Here's my take. Yeah. I think, okay, so The world of this movie Where, um, Jesus, what's her name? Amy?

Amazing Amy herself Doesn't get mugged by friend of the show Lola Kirk And acquaintance of the show Boyd Holbrook, just kidding, we don't know him He was supposed to do the Gung-Kurl That would be funny, actually I fan of this movie i guess we

could have asked lola i didn't even think of that i don't know where lola is these days i feel like that happens sometimes we're covering a movie people who've done the movie never really want to do that like we want them to do it we mentioned it to max about social networking he was like oh no i wouldn't want it no i even felt like we framed it to max as like if you want another fincher because you've worked with fincher would you want to do anything other than social network? But it always just feels like, even sag strike issues aside, which makes it like, this is the one time we couldn't do this. Right, because they wouldn't be able to talk about it. Yes.

That's also not what the format of our show is. If people have insight with the person, but not this specific film. And you want like 10 minutes of people talking about the dick. I mean, I'm sure Lola would have thoughts on that. Lola would have thoughts on that. If she hadn't been mugged by Lola. If her plan succeeds and she gets

away to wherever. I don't know what her next step is. I mean, she's going to kill herself as part of it. That's what she has on the post-it note. Kill myself? She's not going to do that. I think part of it that's what she has on the the post-it note kill kill myself question mark she's not gonna do that well i think part of it is that she's just like i don't know how this ends i guess that's what i have to do yeah but she wants him to have the like get the death penalty and to a certain degree she's like stalling for time to be dead yeah right okay

because i was wondering like i guess if she shows up dead but like could she actually my point is i think she's actually worse at this than she thinks she is, which the movie is sort of. I think the movie, yeah. I mean, the movie is very bad job. Yes.

I mean, Lola Kirk literally says like you, I mean, Lola Kirk doesn't pin that. She is Amy, which is like, which is a clever, actually a clever idea.

She's like, I don't actually care. You just have money. But she's like, I don't actually care. You just have money and you're stupid. But Lola Kirk pegs that she is really bad at hiding that she's hiding something. Right. And they instantly be like,

you're a rich person. She lets the money bag fall. She doesn't respond to the name she gives herself. She thinks things through up to the point where she leaves. And then once she leaves, we're like. You guys are right. Her focus is all on him.

Like, what do I do to make him look bad? Because that's why I'm doing this. But like, could he have gotten away with it? Is my question. Could he have gotten away with it? Correct. Now, if she kills herself, you know what?

Even if she does try to stage her own death in a way that looks like he did it. Yeah. Would he get away with it? He hires Tanner Bolt and Tanner Bolt's like, what kind of moron would kill a woman in his house and then invite the cops over and have this orgy of evidence? You know, what kind of, you know, like, you know what I mean? Like, can he get away with it?

I think if the body shows up, he's fucked. Yeah, I think if the body shows up. But what if the body shows up and it's like not consistent with what happened? Because it wouldn't be. And Tanner Bolt, he's the best damn lawyer in the biz. I mean, Tanner Bolt is, I don't know. I don't think he gets away with it. I don't, I don't.

I think he might get away with it. I think if she doesn't. I mean, to be clear, getting away with it in that he did not commit the crime. Right, right, right. Do you think he walks is the question? I don't think he walks. Is he acquitted? I don't think he walks.

All right. I mean, I'm like trying to like compare this in my mind to other sort of like media sensation cases. But I think a lot of them, like, I mean, the one that just... Natalie Holloway. Yes. Where a lot of it was like the lack of the body for so long.

Yeah. When it's a disappearance, people kind of live in the ambiguity for longer. Whereas I think when a body shows up and there's the sort of like visceral emotional element of like we found a damaged body. There is such a bloodlust in the media that I think like does translate over into the courtroom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I i mean obviously part of what is good about this movie as well is that he's kind of bad at being right that's what i was accused right but then he kind of is starting to get good at it yes but he also is good in a way where he's trying to appeal to her he knows she's still out there all that you know right in the moment it's

just fun to think the moment that he gets good at it is the moment she falls back in love with him and in a way falls like in love with the truer version of him yes but also she's i'm gonna say this she's a little cuckoo no she's amazing i don't know she does some stuff that i think is a little rude i think i think no i think she's a girl boss yes yes is a little rude. I think she's a girl boss. Yes. Okay, you agree with me. I agree. She's a girl boss.

I think she's a girl boss. Is she a girl boss? Yes. Slay queen. Yeah, she got that bag. She actually kind of lost the bag. Yeah, she loses, definitively loses the bag. She hands over the bag.

She has a bag that is taken from her. By Lola Kirk with a very visible cold story, which I have always focused on every single time I watch this movie. Yes. May well be makeup. Lola's so good in this movie. No, I mean, I assume it's makeup. She's really good.

She's great in this movie. She's better than Boyd. I actually think Boyd is kind of a non-factor, which is fine, I guess. I like him as an actor. I do too. Yeah. He's meant to just be kind of a silly doofus. I mean,

I watched this with the Fincher commentary and he was saying, like, I like how irrelevant he is to her immediately the moment he's introduced. Yeah. Like, he's sort of, like, out of focus in the back of the shot as Lola is talking

to Amy about like how much boyfriends suck. Right. Right. Right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. She's good. Everyone's good in this movie. Everyone is good. But I think Amy is a bad person. I'm just saying. I disagree.

Slay queen. Slay queen. I also just want to. She literally commits murder. She slays. She's a queen who slays well you're not being an ally david well as a father of a daughter language being thrown at me right now so not to bring up my not to bring up another point of uh discussion that we will get to later but a person who was going to star in this movie uh reese witherspoon um had a Quibi show that I love called Fierce Queens. And we'd like her to return to the network.

Where's that Quibi? You're inviting her back? It's called Fierce Queens, which was a nature show about animals that were fierce queens. Gotcha. So in the same way Amy is a slay queen because she actually slays.

These are fierce queens. And all the same way Amy is a slay queen because she actually slays. These are fierce queens. Because they're fierce. Cheetah and all the commentary that Reese did was like, you go, girl boss cheetah. Yeah. I mean, and as we all know, that got one bajillion quibby hits. Yes.

Which is a metric of my personal algorithm, which I will not reveal how it's actually. You don't call them hits, you call them punches. Yeah. I also just want to put on record that I. One z one zillion views views count as someone even thinking about it or this bite was punched can i also just put on record that i really really love my boyfriend bob and i do not want to gone girl no that's why we're still together that's why you are with him but you at no point have ever considered gone girling no no and i

think it's good to establish that on like now yeah i just wanted i did i didn't want to establish i just want to make it clear because that way if you do end up gone girling him at some later point in time you've already established that you don't want to do it everyone heard yeah that's true that's an alibi but i recently visited how you're to feel in a year or two. I went to Roku City. Oh, sure. And I bought Quibi back. It's lovely this time of year, by the way. So purple. Yeah.

Just the sky is at its most purple there in October. The trees, the leaves are turning purple. And I went to a little purple office and I bought Quibi back for five Quibi bucks. And so now I do own Quibi again. So you can bring back Fierce Queens. And so, well, we're trying to get Reese on the phone, but unfortunately... No, I've heard a rumor. And I understand it because, you know, the stock market swings on this information.

So if you can't say this, if you can't confirm or deny on Mike, I get it. I don't want the FCC coming after me. I've heard you guys are doing R&D into the idea of doing longer bites. Really long bites. Lonby? Lonby? Low-pies.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. I mean, everything's on the table. Lobby's. Quibi's going to rebrand as the king of slow media. Remember when it was a year of like, no, no, no, people want this. People want this. And then it came out and it was like year of like, no, no, no, people want this. People want this. People want this. And then it came out and it was like one day

and it was like, Quibi has failed. Well, it also came out. I know. Yes. I know when it came out, but still. Yeah. Anyway, Quibi will be back. It was clear for a year or two leading into it that no one wanted it. And then it came out at the time under the circumstances that would accelerate its death

so, to such an extreme degree that they had bought Super Bowl ads that are like, you know, that feeling of being stuck waiting for your table at a restaurant. And people are like, no, I don't know that. I fucking have been ordering in for six months. Quibi launched on April 6th, 2020. It's like, it's like it should just go on a tombstone. Yeah. Like just like cause of death launched on April 6th, 2020. They should have held. Oh, boy. Anyway, Quibi's doing better than ever, just to be clear.

And obviously, we're really excited to work with Reese again. And every time I say that, I have to read this statement that was given to me by her attorney. Reese Witherspoon will not be working with Quibi in any shape or form ever in perpetuity forever and ever. Amen. But we might be working with Quibi in any shape or form ever, in perpetuity, forever and ever. Amen. But we might be working with her. This movie, Reese Witherspoon, who's starting to build out her sort of Southern Oprah dynasty, sees this book with her producing partner.

Hello, Sunshine? Yes, correct. She buys this. Yeah, I mean, hell, sure. And this is in her sort of post-wild, like, Reese is taking back the reign. It's not wild. You know what? Yeah, I know., sure. Right. And this is in her sort of post-wild, like Reese is taking back the reign. It's not wild. You know what?

Yeah, I know. Good point. Okay. Yes. But all this to say, she's clearly in this headspace of like, I kind of want to get back to doing serious work. I want to find material that I can adapt for myself.

Takes this book, has the smart idea of bringing Fincher on board. Fincher immediately says, by the way, you're not starring in this. Well, okay, all right, okay, okay. Let's talk about it. David Fincher. Which I think is the right decision.

Well, we have to discuss that. That is the question that must be answered. And I think while coming out the same year as this, like, vindicates it of, like, she ended up in the better thing for her. I have a take, but we'll talk. I think the answer is yes, yes. Or at least I like to float the idea

But Fincher David Fincher So his film before Gone Girl of course Is Girl with the Dragon Tattoo You a fan? Yes But I haven't watched it that much So good

He's doing well Maybe that's a slight ding. It underperformed, but it still did well. As much as it underperformed a little bit, I also think people were like, maybe we pumped up our expectations too high for this thing. Yeah, maybe we shouldn't have. Rather than blaming him for executing the thing incorrectly.

But obviously there's no sequel to that happening. And instead, while he's working, I think, on the social network, he had signed with Disney to make 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. Yes. Taking over from their first choice, McG. Of course. Not joking. Yep.

And Scott Z. Burns writing the script. Yes. So, big writer he wants to do it with Brad Daniel Craig and Channing Tatum supposedly are both considered at some point I mean Disney basically his version of the movie would cost over 200 million dollars

he's gonna make it in Australia and Disney has a very short list of like if you get one of these five guys it goes he said it became this bizarre endeavor to find which three names you could rub together to make platinum. He wanted the French character of an axe to be French.

I assume Disney was not interested in that. They were like, yeah, is Benedict Cumberbatch French? Whoever it is, whoever the Benedict Cumberbatch is of 2010. Channing Tatum, I suppose. Put a mustache on him. Might be funny. So it does fall apart.

It's one of many fincher swings we never get to see. He's always, in interviews with that one, he always talks about like, I wanted to make my Empire Strikes Back in that I have always found it astonishing how dark Empire Strikes Back is

while working as a movie for children. And I thought I could, I had it in me to maybe thread that needle once to make something on a blockbuster scale. I mean, you read the shit where he's like, it was going to be Osama bin Nemo. Nemo is going to be a Middle Eastern prince with a wealthy family who decided white imperialism is evil and should be resisted. We were going to put kids in a place where they would agree with everything he espouses. It sounds amazing. But take issue with the means. Yeah, it sounds

cool, but Disney is probably like, what? Osama bin Nemo? Yeah. We don't want to do that. Let's also say, he's like starting, that movie is being developed by McG in the era that we've talked about a lot where Disney is like, we need things that boys like, and they

don't have them. And over the time that Fincher is trying and failing to get this movie off the ground, Marvel and Star Wars get acquired. And they're like, we never need to make a John Carter ever again. We don't need to make Tron Legacy. We don't need to try to mine our archives. We'll buy the IP

rather than trying to invent it whole cloth. Now, we'll probably see some attempts at invention again coming soon. Cleopatra, we've discussed this movie, I think, a little bit with Angelina Jolie. He is attached to that. Yes. Taking over from Paul Greengrass. That was originally a James Cameron project.

I'm fascinated that that specific project. It's the same one that Gal Gadot. Right. But Patty Jenkins left it. Who's supposed to do it now? Patty Jenkins is the queen of leaving projects. I don't really know. I was going to say,

the Cleopatra movie almost feels like a project meant to help you negotiate for the project you actually want. Right now, it's Kari Skoglund. Yes. Who's that again? Coming hot off of Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Yeah, no, that was it. Sorry.

Wrong person. Just an absolute victory lap for everyone's favorite Disney Plus show. Yeah, she's done a lot of TV. That does not seem like someone I would hand a colossal project like that, but I don't know. When Avatar came out, and Fincher, Cameron

was like, I might actually have some more Avatar stories in me. And Cameron was like I might actually have some more avatar stories in me and Fox was like okay and he's like here's how much you'd have to pay me and they were like you said this right

Cleopatra's leverage Cleopatra and I feel like well you love flirting with Cleopatra Julius Caesar just to be clear yeah Anthony and her had

sex but Julius and her we don't actually know yeah that doesn't mean they didn't flirt yeah that's what I'm saying consummated yeah Just to be clear Anthony and her had sex But Julius and her we don't actually know That doesn't mean they didn't flirt That's what I'm saying What's the other Unrealized Fincher project Griffin

In this era? Star Wars episode 7 Kathleen Kennedy Definitely talks to him about it The first two asks in some order are her and Brad Bird. Or him and Brad Bird. Supposedly the first ask was Nolan and Nolan just was like, click.

And then they did the courtesy Nolan ask. Right. And then it's Fincher and then Brad Bird. Right. Brad Bird says, I would do it if I weren't doing Tomorrowland. A decision I think he probably backs up 100% to this day. And Fincher says, like,

will you give me complete autonomy? And she's like, what the fuck are you talking about? She gave her directors more autonomy than most, but yes. He also allowed a certain someone to be Frank in between these two movies, Tattoo

and Gone Girl. Which is important because he's had the success of House of Cards, which he gets less involved in as the show goes on, but he makes a tremendous amount of money over, and Netflix, as they often do, pays a bunch of money to, like, earn his shine

and use it to boost their whole profile. I mean, it is crazy. Like to think back. I like I remember sitting in that dinky Atlantic office. Yeah. The day House of Cards came out. And sort of before it came out having no. The Soho office or the Park Avenue.

Yeah the Soho office. And having no like no real sense of like what it wouldn't what it was going to mean that there was a show on netflix maybe this is a one-off gimmick and then it comes out and everyone starts watching it and just being like oh this is a new like people didn't even love it they liked it they liked it but also everyone watched it like within that first weekend and just sort of like realizing that that was a thing that was going to happen now. Not only that, yes. It was like thinking back to it, it's like sort of strange. They also hit.

Like 10 years ago. It sucks. immediately had the kind of reputation that like HBO and AMC briefly fought to have of like, oh, does Netflix have like a brand identity that is a marker of some consistent level of quality? It was briefly. Briefly? For about the first year. If Netflix had a show, it was interesting. Right.

It was the equivalent of like HBO putting something new on Sunday. And now? Yes. It's still true. Every Netflix show? Perfect. Perfect show. Prestige. Watching these later digital Fincher movies recently,

and knowing that he starts doing the shows around this time, we all complain about the sameness of how all the Netflix shows look. And Netflix has basically a style guide that they impose on most shows it does feel like as much as I love the way that Zodiac, Dragon Tattoo, Social Network, and Gone Girl look I do watch these movies now

and go like oh we're kind of living in a world where everything is forced to look like a bad Fincher project because he established the look of Netflix prestige. But it's way not as good. No, it's watered down. Wait, what even is Netflix prestige now?

Genuine question. What's like their most prestigious? I guess The Crown still. The Crown is still, I mean, but then, I mean, besides that, there's this sort of sub-universe, which I like, but it's very much its own thing

of the Mike Flanagan shows. Well, but that's over there. Yeah. I mean, now that's done. He's left. Yeah, now he's done. I mean, Fall of the Mike Flanagan shows. Well, but that's over there. Yeah. I mean, now that's done. He's left. Yeah, now he's done. I mean, Fall of the House of Escher was really fun, though. And he's like, he makes fun shits. I'm talking more about their, like, shitty dramas. Like, their junky

dramas. The Diplomat? Sure. Yes. That I think look like crappy Fincher. I don't watch those shows. You know why? I don't watch them either. Of course I don't watch them. Why? Because you don't like bad things? Yeah, I don't want to. I also think they have started to look less like crappy

Fincher. The diplomat sort of looks like 24ers. Which one? The diplomat? Harry Russell. It's pretty fun because it's just sort of like She's a diplomat. She's a diplomat. She's a diplomat. It's like not smart,

but it's like very, but it's very entertaining and she's great to watch. So Keri Russell's the diplomat. Richard Madden's the bodyguard. Yeah. What's the one with the kid from Super 8? I don't know.

Where he's like the agent or something? I don't fucking know. I can't keep up with this garbage. It was something for a second sorry go on the other netflix prestige thing just to close the circle on this which is its own thing is also the bridgerton stuff which is that's not prestige i know but it's quasi prestige and they're still trying the night agent is the one i was fucking thinking i don't i don't know what that is i like like my night managed by Tom Hiddleston,

not to have an agent who is from Super 8. And I like my agents in broad daylight. Yeah, I have no idea what this is. Gillian Flynn. Wait, you guys are forgetting that Emily went to Paris. Oh, yeah. Emily went to Paris. And that's pretty persistent.

Didn't they buy that off of? Pristine. They buy a lot of this shit. They buy it all. That was made for a channel. Listen to me. They can... No, they're all right.

I don't care. Who cares? Someone's Netflix paychecks are about to stop showing up. Notoriously kind on all Netflix projects, David Sims. Look, if they make something good, I am next to it.

No, I think you're more critical than most. Yeah, they've been mad at me at moments. Gillian Flynn. Entertainment Weekly. She graduates from Northwestern Universe in 1998. Thank you for including this fact, JJ. Jillian Flynn.

JJ went to Northwestern, to be clear. Jillian Flynn worked at EW. Is it Jillian? Jillian Flynn worked at EW. I don't know. I dated a Jillian, so I always... Well, humble brag, my friend. Gillian Flynn. Is it Gillian?

I believe it's Gillian. Went to EW and would always try to write novels. She said she had many failed attempts and then read Dennis Lehane's Mystic River, which, in my opinion, is an incredible piece of writing that was turned into a flawed movie. His worst adaptation? That's an interesting question. I would have

to take a look at the whole list. She reads that and she's like, this has an unsolved crime as its spine, but it's not really about the crime. It's about the characters and all this emotional stuff. The crime is the red herring in a way. Exactly. And so she's she's like that's what i need i need some sort of crime as the red herring for what it's actually about right and so sharp objects and dark places are both kind of like

attempts at that right has anyone seen dark places the charlie's theron movie i read the book i have not seen the movie does exist yeah it does every time I'm like, wait, why is no one Oh, someone actually has. Right. And it just didn't go anywhere. Who directed that? Arriaga? No. Someone halfway respectable directed that movie? No. Arriaga, you're thinking of The Burning Plain,

right? Which is the gentle woman. Gilles Paquette Brenner. Okay. Truly, no offense to him, but not someone I know. Or he's a big blank here. Or he's active on the Reddit. He's going to be really happy to hear that. Oh, I know he is.

It came, that movie, Dark Places, came out a year after Gone Girl and had like Gone Girl on the poster. Sure. Like from the author of Gone Girl. You know, they're really trying. The character, the poster is Charlize Theron holding up the theatrical one sheet for Gone Girl. Wait, you know what?

I actually think I did see Dark Places. And? It's not great. Clearly memorable as hell. But yeah, the book is fun. In the old big book. The first two books are moderate success, but not huge.

Gone Girl in 2012, huge breakthrough. Kind of immediately, right? Like an immediate literary phenomenon. That was one of those books that was regarded as trashy because it's a crime novel. Uh-huh. And because of the way it was marketed, I would say. Yeah. And then there were even people kind of writing pieces of like,

this should have been considered for awards and wasn't because of the kind of bias against this genre. Arguably the exact same thing that happened to the movie. Indeed. I mean, and this is also like the thing that obviously we have to talk about this but like when you're reading that book it is such a skilled piece of like literary ingenuity like i mean it's just like unreliable narrators well yeah and it's just and it but when you reach that halfway point and it switches. It's also good in the movie. Also great in the movie.

And I remember I'd read the book and I remember being like a huge I was a huge fan of the book. And I was so excited for the movie because I was a huge fan of David Fincher. But it was sort of like, how is he going to do this? Like, how's he going to how's like and how when she adapts it, like, how are they going to make this work on screen? and when she adapts it, how are they going to make this work on screen? Because it is such a little fun piece of first-person narration trickery. And a very literary...

Yeah. She's putting herself in it more, in a way. She's from Missouri. She exited journalism at a sort of crisis point for that industry, much like Amazing Amy and Amazing Nick. I remember loving her EW work. That was sort of a golden age of EW.

And then she was like landed as a distinct voice. Yeah, that was a good time for EW. Yeah. And, you know, Leslie Dixon, producer who worked on movies like Frankie Friday and The Thomas Crown Affair. And does sharp objects? Sure, I believe you. I think so. Reads the manuscript, takes it right to the top of Sunshine Mountain and delivers it to Reese Witherspoon.

He said, hello, Sunshine. Yes. Reese Witherspoon loved the manuscript. They start pitching it around. 20th Century Fox acquires the rights. And Witherspoon actually never had the rights she oh shepherded the deal and was brought on as a producer uh-huh but she did not own the rights at any point gilflin i call her gilly old gilly yes gilly is sorry uh target lady takes the first passage script and then that didn't work out so they Gilly. Yes, Gilly. Sorry.

Target Lady takes the first passage of the script, and that didn't work out, so they brought in Gilly. Yes. That didn't work out, so they brought in Gilly and Flynn. Right. They asked Maximillian to turn on a lamp. And Gilly writes a screenplay. She'd also never written a screenplay before. She

turns to a simple plan for inspiration which i really like yeah oh that's awesome the band uh yeah the band no the movie that we uh covered on this part the ben hosley story of course the uh if i was in this movie it would have ended with me owning an island of course one of the all-time great ben thoughts she just she considers that one of the all-time great book-to-film adaptations. She said, so I can maybe... And that's also similarly the novelist adapting his own. Right.

And changing it. And like, you know, being judicious about changes. And she said, so I tried to use that as a model. And then I freaked myself out because I was like, well, this is too good. I won't do this well. The book is quite long, I would say. You know, it's a pretty dense book. She says she writes

it all out as a screenplay. That's very long. So then she starts pulling stuff out. There's some rumors that she was going to change the ending, but she doesn't change the ending. She just kind of simplifies the ending.

And does it really fast. The ending is longer in my memory. It's gotten... There's more time with the media stuff. It's been so long that I've read the book. So long ago that I read the book. And I've seen the movie so many times that I can't remember.

It's overpowered it. Yeah. In your memory. Turns in the screenplay. Fincher reads it and is like, this is what I want to do. It's not just

I want to do Gone Girl. It's like, she has the right approach. So rather than let's, okay, the novelist took a pass. Let's now kick her off and bring in

Andrew Kevin Walker, Scott Burns, Eddie O'Groth, whatever. He's like, I will work together with her on like making this great. Like, you know, and she's the writer. It is interesting. He's like, I will work together with her on making this great. And she's the writer. It is interesting.

He obviously, Andrew Kevin Walker does a lot of sort of uncredited ghost work on a lot of his scripts, but I feel like he is pretty loyal to his screenwriters where even if the material's not totally working for him, he'd rather just drill into that person

for like a year, a year and a half until they give him the version of it that he wants. They just seem to really like each other. They seem to have very much clicked, those two. Well, they almost immediately announced after this, the Strangers on a Train, that doesn't happen. Would have been cool. With the two of them in Africa.

Could have been cool. Could have been cool. I mean, I love a train. Yeah. I love strangers. Yes. You know, and I see all of the strangers this year, and I'm like, where's the train? Put in Affleck. Could have been cool. Could have been cool. I mean, I love a train. Yeah. I love strangers. Yes. You know, and I see all of the strangers this year and I'm like, where's the train?

Put him on a train. You're just sitting? You have the right amount of strangers for once in the movie. I'm sorry. Andrew Scott rides a lot of trains in that movie. He actually does. That movie actually, I will be clear,

has tons of trains. There's a ton of trains in that movie. I have complaints about that movie, but I should be clear, not its tons of trains. There's a ton of trains in that movie. I have complaints about that movie, but I should be clear, it's lack of trains. But it would have been nice if it was called All of Us Strangers on a Train. I'll agree with that.

It's like, you know? They talk about movies they like. Lolita, Clockwork Orange, Talented Mr. Ripley. She goes to Steve Kloves and is like, how did you adapt the Harry Potter books? Like, how did you approach, like, just what to keep, what not? Right?

You know, just that kind of like... I love her because that's like just such a like a... Kind of a clever thing to do. I also like went to J school. I don't know if she went to Medill, but like I... But like, you know, I'm a journalist, sort of. This is how you figure out how to write a screenplay is by asking other people yeah yeah um and uh you know the adaptation which is very specific

you know you're not going to learn the same way from like going to you know sid field yeah classes or whatever yeah she fincher makes some changes she collects her own blood in the in the book he doesn't like that. He's like, that wouldn't work. Like, he makes changes like that where he's like, no, practically,

that makes no sense. Where he's like, it's too, if you cut your jugular, like, no, too hard. Like, he's, I just like thinking about it. Sure, sure.

The big three names initially cited, this is insane, in a variety story for casting. Abby Cornish, Olivia Wilde, Julianne Hoff. What? I mean, cited this is insane in in a variety story for casting abby cornish olivia wild julianne hoff i mean should have just you know stopped right there that's wild uh emily blunt natalie portman charlie's all no mentioned but the those are all squashed and uh rosamund pike then floats you know into nowhere you know out of nowhere as

the uh well and reese wants to do it and he and he says no he i mean i don't know if there quotes this effect in the dossier but like the way i always heard him talk about it was like i read this and i immediately felt it need to be a Hitchcock blonde, which is just not who Reese is as a type. I think Reese is like literally played a character in a play called Hitchcock. Right. Of course. I think Reese is like I think Reese could have played this role incredibly well in a different version of this movie. Right.

I don't think she would right for this role in the sense that I think you put Reese Witherspoon in like a southern town and you're like, know she can play sort of outside of that, but her whole aesthetic and her whole vibe has been sort of, even when she's sort of trying to subvert it, like in something like Sweet Home Alabama or whatever, the idea is like, no, that is who she is at her core. I agree with you. I agree with this take, Esther. She is, like, Amy has to be

somehow so out of place in southern Missouri. It's like the first time Kim Dickens is questioning Affleck and she's kind of like needling him and like... She's like, no one likes... She has no friends. Like, you mean that part? Right. And I think Affleck says the thing about like,

you know, she's from New York. Yes. Yeah. Right? And it's like, there's something where the moment that character is on screen, you need to get to like there's some silent air of judgment

around her the second they have to move to Missouri you have to know that she's not going to be able to hit quite the same frequency as people I agree with you that even if like Reese can act it Fincher talks so much about like the bone deep energy of people that he's

casting based around i my take is i would like to see it i guess i'm just i'd be interested to see it i just don't think it would work as well it's probably true i just sort of love to imagine it i i think reese is like one of the most undervalued actors the best I think she's incredible. And I think anytime she's challenged, she rises to it. I agree. And she doesn't get challenged anymore. Partly her own, you know, like sort of mogul status at this point. I mean, I don't watch The Morning Show.

Perhaps there are challenges. But while being this year, she's like, I'm a Southern girl and I'm standing up to Jennifer Aniston. If I might get. While being this year felt like there was this air of and she was coming off of mud, which is obviously a smaller part, but she's really good in. And it felt like there was this energy of like, I want to remind people why I won an Oscar. I want to find like interesting shit to dig into. And why before I won an Oscar, I was like this huge talent, like, you know, election onwards.

And I think, yeah, well, Wilde is perfect. She's really good in Wilde. She's incredibly good in Wilde. Just one of my favorite movie performances of recent years. Yeah. I think Wilde is one of the great films. And it's like not regarded as such. No, it's kind of forgotten.

No, it's wonderful. I love it so much. And she's so good in it. And it feels like, okay, this is... And it does feel like that role challenges her to be something that's not her yeah but in a way where you know she has that grit that like you that works so well for wild obviously she's also an inherent vice that year and then it's like hot pursuit home again a fin Fincherian film. Yes.

Wrinkle in Time, Big Little Lies, which she is very good at. Incredibly good at. Yeah, she's fabulous. But that's also another thing that she spearheaded. Right? She really doesn't fucking make movies anymore. Am I wrong? No, she's been a TV person. Of course that's her.

Yes. Right. That was Hello Sunshine. That's the thing. Did you not see how bright that movie was? The sun's shining. She. Right. That was Hello Sunshine. That's the thing. So it's like. Did you not see how bright that movie was? The sun's shining. She has this. Yeah.

No, I see what you're saying. I did watch the Her and Ashton rom-com that came out this year. I mean, I heard that that was like toxic waste. Like so bad. But this is another like indicative of she kind of like now sleeps in the bed that she made. Right. Like of... Of money.

Of streaming money. It's the same with Fincher and the Netflix shit, right? Where it's a little bit of Faustian bargain where it's like 2014's this year where she's clearly like, I need to challenge myself.

I need to work with directors who are going to push me. Then she immediately flips back to two comedies that are kind of comfort zone movies for her and neither of them work. And then Big Little Lies

is like, holy shit, what do you mean they're all on a TV show together? And you got a movie director to do it yeah and it kind of changes everything where then that type of project becomes you do it as a miniseries well i mean it's like sharp objects becomes a miniseries bad sharp objects would have been a good movie it's a bad but all these things get fucked like you know it's too long. It's too long, but it would have been a better movie. Better movie, but I like it. Same fucking cast.

Would have been great. Messina. He gets his dick out, right? Yes, he does. I'm just saying, Reese has done four. Is that like a Gillian Flynn like rider thing?

It's going to be full frontal? Guy's got to show hog. Reese has done four TV shows now or three? Little Fires Everywhere, Big Little Lies, and The Morning Show is three. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I'm not sure if there's a fourth. Those the big no she's not nicole has done so many right yes um but to be fair she also got an oscar nomination for being the ricardo esther she got an oscar nomination for becoming lucy ricardo but not only that she was the front runner for a bit we almost had to deal with that. It was almost surprising, the relief of like, oh great, Chastain won instead for a performance that everyone's going to forget. Which I contend she's very good in that.

I think it's, yeah. I'm pro Jess. Absolute bullet dodge by not having to live with Academy Award winning film being the Ricardos. All right. I do love this quote by Fincher about Pike, who I think is excellent

in Gone Girl. And as an actor, I love. I feel like she's had such a frustrating post-Gone Girl career because Hollywood's just like Ice Queen, Ice Queen, Ice Queen.

You know, like, they only have that for her. And she's such a good actor. And she's so warm in like Pride and Prejudice. Her best her. And she's such a good actor. And she's so warm in, like, Pride and Prejudice. I mean, her best performance. But she's so wonderful in that, like, and so sweet and lovely in that film. They latch on to darkly funny.

Have neither of you seen Salt Burn yet? We have both. She's very funny. She's very funny. That's the only reason I'm excited for that movie. It's a minus one dimensional role. It's not even zero dimensional. It's negative dimensional.

She is someone who can make those things work. But that movie, which is, in my opinion, stupid. I think that movie is very fun. Yeah. The movie is fun for a good 60 minutes. And then there's 80 more minutes. I just get jazzed at her, like, in the trailer being like, is someone going to let her rip?

She does rip. A she does rip a little bit a little bit not enough not nearly enough Carey Mulligan is fucking hysterical in that movie oh she's so funny

but she comes in she comes in hits three threes and then leaps and like you know she is in 20 minutes of that movie yeah it's just

it's basically a cameo but she's so funny that's cool um uh I think Elordi is incredible in it. I'm really pro that guy. Interesting. He's great in Priscilla, too.

Yeah. I mean, whatever. You like him because he's tall. I like Priscilla. I like him because what? Because he's tall. You know, he is really tall. He's so tall.

He's shockingly tall. Here's something interesting, though, about Pike and about those three other people being at the top of the list. I already forgot the other one now. Yes. Cornish. Cornish. Cornish was hot. Yes.

This was after Bright Star. It kind of feels like this movie fundamentally breaks if you, in 2014, cast a major movie star an established leading lady like it's not like rosamund pike was unknown but all three of those people there's something of like the audience hasn't totally formed an opinion of who they are yeah and so it's not even like the reese thing of they have to play against something there's like the mystery of like i don't have a read on her i think that's totally true i also think there was a genuine budget mystery of like i don't have a read on her i think that's totally true i also think there was a genuine budget thing of like if you're getting affleck he's expensive sure so you know can we can we save on the actor maybe actress i do like this quote from venture

amy had to be an only child he said when i met rosamund she was a dyed in the wool only child she just exudes it she's an orchid and you get that When I met Rosamund, she was a dyed-in-the-wool only child. She just exudes it. She's an orchid, and you get that. She was socialized with adults, and that was really interesting. Yeah. Makes sense. The whole sort of, like, body language and, like, attitude of her. Yes. That feels like a burn towards only children, of which

I am one. Yeah, same. I'm a little offended. Love this quote. Yeah, two only children in the... You're both orchids. Yeah, two orchids. Beautiful orchids. Sensitive. Hey. Careful. Easy. The night before production started, Rosamund Pike

had a 103 degree fever and threw up three times. She emailed Tom Cruise, her Jack Reacher co-star. Yes. Freaking out. Yeah. And he emailed back, trust yourself, you're in the hands of a great director. You're ready. her Jack Reacher oh yes yes and freaking out yeah and he emailed back trust yourself

you're in the hands of a great director you're ready god damn it goosebumps wow god damn it the Cruz email

he's tom.cruz at gmail yeah when is yeah when is he gonna get up with Finchie well I'd love to see it yeah

I mean obviously Mission Impossible was sort of the big flirtation but yeah I don't know well that's so good that's such a mic drop email isn't it cool and also the idea of her being like you know maybe just like hitting the reacher group chat yeah and a yellow was like you're fine you know like other every you know verner herzog is like i think that you will do well and then cruz is jenkins giving that the ha-ha stamp. Yeah. Fucking Jai Courtney writes, like, two paragraphs.

And he's like, you heard that for 10 minutes, buddy. The thing that's nice about that email, and its succinctness, is that it's, like, both... You're in the hands of a master. He's not going to let you fail. And also, you fundamentally are ready. Sorry, this is so off-topic. But have you read the thing about there's the new Scott Pilgrim animated show?

He's in it, bro. You're in it? I'm in it, bro. But did you see the... The little parts. But did you see the... One of the reasons the cast all get together was they had that email thread,

and then six years later, Michael Cera responded, ha-ha, to the email thread. Yes, I saw that. Which is really... That's a power move. People think he's just... oh, he's so delightful and to know, he's power moves all the way

with Sarah. Absolutely. He's winning every interact. He got that email in like 2017 and he was like, I'm going to give this one six years. I'm going to let it sit. This is a six. He was at the IFC when I did a Q&A for the very nice film Fremont.

Just seeing the movie. Really? That's an incredible movie. Recommend it to anyone. You would like it. Yeah. And fucking Greg Turkington's in it. Right.

And it's the same. It's the writer of Amanda, which was one of my favorite movies of the year. There you go. Have either of you seen Amanda? I haven't seen Amanda. Nope. Gotta see it. Yeah. Okay.

Sorry. Jon Hamm is considered for the role of Nick Dunn. Affleck is incredible in this movie he uses Affleck so well and he has a much more reasonably sized penis than Mr. Hamm like in Hamm it would be like the guy has three legs I don't understand this is the late twist he's an alien

you've seen a dolby in the seat shake off I'm so sorry I'm so sorry to Mr. Hamm who I respect fuck up the sound when the thing hits the shower time John Hamm is from Missouri I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry to Mr. Ham, who I respect. Fuck up the shower time. John Hamm is from Missouri. Right.

And John Hamm, of course, at that moment, really would work as the kind of like, this guy's handsome, but a douchebag. Like, I don't know. Should I trust him or truly think of him as evil?

Like, he makes a lot of sense. This is like last season of Mad Men. Yes, correct. And this is also the moment... He couldn't fit it into his Mad Men schedule. Right. He now talks about it as, that was mine,

it was supposed to be mine. I think he was the first choice. Yeah. It really sounds like it. But yes, no, this is also the moment where people are like, can he please successfully

make the jump over to movie star? I wish it had happened. I'm not saying he has a bad career. He has a good body of work in movies. He has a good career. And he's done good movies. He's worked with interesting people. He now is in this weird, like, I'll come in for the second season of your show

or whatever phase. Isn't he on the morning show? He's on the morning show playing Elon Musk right now. No one is talking about this because no one watches that show. But everyone, everyone, whenever anyone tells me about something that's happened on the show, I'm sort of like, should I watch it?

Because it's crazy. Like, apparently their January 6th episode was like, don't watch it, don't watch it. Apparently their January 6th episode was like insane. You're kidding me. It wasn't normal?

But you're right. He's in that weird Aaron Paul zone. And Cranston's in this too where it's like, you returning to TV should be a monumental deal. And instead, it just kind of

happens every couple of years. This is the fucking problem with TV now which you know again we can rant about again but right where it's like okay Affleck I love this quote from Fincher about Affleck. Gone girl there's a smile a guy has to give what the local press asked him to stand next to a poster. It's all that fucking moment.

I flipped through 50 images of Ben Affleck giving that kind of smile in public situations. Yeah. It's so funny that Fincher is so upfront about, like, I'm casting this guy

because of how he's had to deal with the press. We have to talk about the speech where he says marriage is hard work. Yes. Go, please. Go ahead.

When does his divorce happen relative to this movie? It's after. Right? Or is it right after? Oh, man. Go ahead. When does his divorce happen relative to this movie? It's after. Right? Or is it right after? Oh, man. It's so funny that when you Google him, the image now,

it's like four pictures of him looking sad and then the beach photo with him got the towel around him. But his Oscar speech where he says... So that's 2013. 2013. Oh, 2013. Where he says,

like, it's like... Or it's good, it's work, or it's good, it's work, but it's the best kind of work. It's like that could be a line from Gone Girl. Absolutely. That's a Nick Dunn fuck up. And everyone's like,

everyone's because he forgets to thank her at the Globes. Yes. And then he gets up and does this and everyone's like, Jesus Christ, what? And then mind you, on top of that,

he then hosts the finale, the season finale of SNL that May and his whole monologue is him bringing Garner up on stage and trying to atone for that comment at the Oscars. And he oversells that bit in a way where you see it go from Garner being like, I'm playing along. I'm a good sport to being like, he doth protest too much. They split up in June of 2015. So about six, seven months later. Fincher says he's very bright.

He's got a great sense of humor, but he also really understands situations like this. And I really like that about him. Here's this guy who may have killed his wife, but I would also love to grab a cheeseburger with him. That's the vibe he sees in Affleck. It's the same as the Rosamund Pike thing. And I know I said this in the girl with the

dragon tattoo episode and that exhaustive casting search which I do think informs the way he approaches Amy going into this movie as well of like I got to sort of build a performance with someone who was a little bit new to the audience but he's like I cast for whatever the

most like essential innate quality is in an actor that's still going to be there at 5 o'clock in the morning on take 100. And I think... Yes, yeah. As much as Affleck has been on a quiet heater for the last 10 years as an actor, starting with Gone Girl,

I think Jon Hamm is fundamentally a better actor, but I don't think he would be better in this movie in a sort of like Barry Lyndon way. I mean, I love Affleck in this movie so much. Yeah. I can't imagine it. My ham thing is more just what you're... I just love to see that guy have like five great movie roles. Totally. And have had it.

But he also has a great career. But like the power of that smile moment and like five other moments in this movie, including him saying marriage is like a battle or whatever with like the layers, the text that you're bringing to it. Well, I think it's so,

I mean, have you guys ever done like an Affleck? Have you ever done like an Affleck run? BVS, our last episode. And we did Justice League. We did sort of fun, yeah. I feel like we discussed him as Batman. But you've never really discussed him because I just think it's a good question.

Have we never? Yeah. Wait. No, come on. Surely we've. All right. Let's see. Let's see.

We did Armageddon at the drive through. But no, we didn't really know about the movie. We didn't do Ranger Games. We haven't done that one yet. Yet. No, I'm with you, Esther. You need to dig in. Like, because there's a lot of movies like

we will do one day absolutely uh you know pearl harbor we might do one day now these are not his best films no well it's just like i feel like you know it's so interesting like him at this phase because it's like i think right now in 2023 as we're speaking about this we've all done batman yeah yeah we've like fully he's been a lot of bad movies yes i feel like we have culturally swung back into like yes we love ben affleck yes moment you know the sort of getting back with j-lo the the um air is good air is very fun no like that like trying to like build a better industry to support adult films

yes his Duncan ads are fun yeah like we're sort of we're sort of like culturally we are very pro Ben Affleck but I feel like in 2014

he obviously had just won an Oscar like he had just won best picture he's on the downswing but it does feel like you get Batman on the set of this movie and that won best picture on the downswing but it does feel like you get batman on the set of this movie and that's like part of the downswing right well this is what's fascinating

about it's weird that it's like it's weird that this is like two years after his movie that came out that won an oscar and yet everyone is sort of like everyone felt bad for him when he didn't get the director nomination but then sort of swung back around and was like, did we really have to give this best picture? The man has had 50 comebacks. I've talked about it on this podcast. It's one of the most fascinating careers. And what you are referring to is one of his,

like a mini comeback with him. He's like, Argo's back. And then he gets to get the thing and like, oh, poor Argo. Oh, poor Ben Affleck. Come on, let's give him a comeback again. Let's give him the best picture. Right.

The charity of giving him best picture. That's the only reason Argo won. Argo was destined to get a bunch of noms, including Best Director. Yes. And if it had, something else would have won. What do you think would have won, though?

Lincoln, probably. Lincoln just weirdly fell DOA after being seen as the juggernaut for so long. And being such a big hit. It's never good to be the juggernaut the whole time. And being such a big hit. It's never good to be the juggernaut the whole time. That's undeniable. So, yeah.

There's something to the fact that... I guess Zero Dark Thirty had that moment. Zero Dark Thirty had a month where it felt like it was going to win. Yeah, it had a month. And then everyone won. But I think what's telling us

that Ang Lee wins for Life of Pi, a movie that never had the juice to win Best Picture. Yeah, but it had the most tigers. It did have the, well, one, but more than others. No tigers in Lincoln. I want to dig into this, though, because he, you know,

his career is so fascinating, right? But there's this feeling of, like, throughout the 90s, he's such a big star, but no one seems to really like him. He's in one of those weird positions. A little bit of like a Ryan O'Neill thing, right? Yeah, Ryan O'Neill's a good comp. Not only does the press

attack this guy, but it almost feels like the public treats him as a joke. And yet most of his movies are hits. And we're obsessed with him as a public figure, right? And Damon is slowly building up this like greater career.

Big cred, yeah. Right. And then there's the Bourne Identity moment where it's like, well, for a while the divide was that Damon was doing the serious prestige stuff with serious filmmakers

and Affleck makes the big, dumb blockbusters that people like, but they're not taken seriously. And now Damon has an elite action franchise and that's coming right at the moment that G. Lee hits, that the press cycle of Bennifer goes out of control. He totally loses it and then he's like, I have to go

back into the dirt and rebuild myself as a serious filmmaker. And it was sort of getting back to this, like, remember this guy wrote Good Will Hunting? In interviews, all these people who work with him talk about how intelligent he is. And yet the public thinks of him as an idiot. When he does press, he seems

insincere, right? It's the fake smile in front of the poster. He makes these dumb comments. He seems insincere, right? It's the fake smile in front of the poster. He makes these dumb comments. He steps in it, all this shit. And it's like he's going to go and make grown up movies. And everyone is impressed with Gone Baby Gone as like a low level hit. And they're like, guy sort of proved himself. Okay.

Then Town's like a hit. Town's so good. And now he's putting himself as the star in the movie. But it almost feels like, well, he knows that that's a chip he can play to help get the thing financed and also gives him some control as a director. And he's the lead in Argo and the town. But in both cases,

he's kind of doing the selfless heavy lifting of the movie and letting all the supporting actors shine. And I feel like the thing with Argo, too, is... Go fuck yourself. Well, yes, Argo, fuck yourself. Yes. Clearly, classically. That's the thing with it. That's the thing. That is the thing with Argo too is Go fuck yourself. Well, yes. Argo, fuck yourself. Yes. Clearly. Classically. That is the thing. It is the one thing.

But with his, you know, everyone's sort of like, that movie's fun. Like, it's like well made. It's a big tittied hit. We should acknowledge. It's a big tittied hit. It had big floppy financial titties. When do we ban this phrase? I don't know how it started. It's close. I don't know how big tittied head. It had big floppy financial titties. When do we ban this phrase? I don't know how it started.

I think we're getting close. I don't know how big tittied head started. But I do feel like him casting himself, everyone was sort of eye-rolling. Because it was supposed to be, like the guy was Latino. Like it wasn't like, it was like,

why are you casting yourself? And I do feel like even though he had sort of like established himself as a good like as a solid and good filmmaker by that point by the time he's coming into the Gone Girl no one had really he still was like he's not that good of an actor

this is my point and those two movies he's playing the lead but he's sort of just the guy holding the center of the film and no one is like calling him out as like a highlight of the movie. They're like, he's actually a better director and writer than he is actor.

Yeah, that was the whole thing. It's like, oh, he should have been doing this the whole time. He is not that good of an actor. And it's like, Arkin's getting a supporting nom. Renner's getting a supporting nom.

He's just sort of like keeping the movie on its rails. So when they announced that he's doing Gone Girl, it's like, wait, Affleck should be going straight back into directing another movie. He should only be acting in his own films. Why is he taking other acting jobs?

He made Live By Night. Gets pushed back because of this. Yeah, but he made it right after this. I know, but that movie came out so much. It came out much later. I like that movie. I'm a defender of Live By Night. That's a wild opinion.

Well, have you seen it? No. So maybe shut the fuck up. Okay. No, well, Live By Night is like two thirds of a good movie. He is the problem in it. But, you know, it's in the middle of Batman. He's clearly like weighed down at that point.

It is so interesting. It came out in 2016. It wasn't like a huge delay. Not to jump ahead in time, but it does feel like in the past, I guess like three years, he has also figured out how to use himself

in films better. Yes. Like it's like the last duel. Like he's so good in the last duel. Now he's on incredible run. Have you seen Triple Frontier? No, your favorite movie.

He's awesome in that. Now that is emo Affleck. Yeah. He's really sad in that movie same with a movie we both like the way back way back which is incredible i love the way back which feels like a that movie is so good he's so good and it feels like a weird commentary on uh his own alcoholism 100 of course well not it doesn't even feel like it is yeah and then last duel in air he's like i I will play a weird little princeling.

It'll be fun. Yeah. He's doing the Shakespeare in Love thing, which he was always so good at. He's only okay in Deepwater, which I kind of hoped for as like a Gone Girl 2. I mean, that whole movie should have been. That whole movie just doesn't work. And then, of course, he gave the greatest performance in the history of film. Films released by Ketchup Entertainment.

I'm talking about Hypnotic. I have not seen Hypnotic. Ketchup Entertainment. David, that was a masterfully delivered joke. You played that beautifully. Unfortunately, no one knows what Ketchup Entertainment is, but I'm here to tell you they released Hypnotic. That joke was

targeted straight for me. Right for you. It was really only for you. Ben doesn't know what's going on. He's looking at his phone. I know what's going on only for you. Ben doesn't know what's going on. He's looking at his phone. I know what's going on. It is. I know you know what's going on. It is fascinating because I'm just like... You don't know what

catch-up entertainment is, but that's fine. You shouldn't. No one should know what it is. You're like, he does no acting work between the town and Argo, right? Well, I guess

To the Wonder comes out the same year as Argo and was probably shot 15 years earlier. Right, that was shot in the 70s. Right. Runner Runner is when you're like,

dude, get back to making movies. Don't do this bullshit. Never seen that. In other people's films. Is there any Runner Runner fan out there? No, everyone hates that movie. And I think Affleck basically talks about that like halfway through production,

he kind of took over it and he was like, this was a mistake. I need to only work with like really top tier directors if I'm going to hire myself out as an actor Brad Furman coming off the Lincoln Lawyer which is one of those movies where like when you watch Lincoln Lawyer you're not like get me this director

you're kind of like wow McConaughey's like pulling this along like yeah but then it's like right he does this which he's like perfectly cast in then he goes straight into Batman the anecdote the fucking

chin joke in this movie right which is like you can't believe that existed in the book in the script before they hired him it's such a good summation of like the weird tension of this guy where you're like there is something i just don't believe there's just one thing affleck has done that doesn't fit into what we're talking about, which is The Accountant, which is one of those movies where you're like, why did you do this? But then you're like,

but it actually hit and is well liked. It was a huge-ass hit. It was like a cable movie. It also got him linked up with Gavin O'Connor. It got him the way back, but it's sort of like a runner-runner where you're like, why are you wasting your time on this?

But you were actually probably right to. It's the same thing as him taking Batman again, right? Like the joke was the chin things in the script. He calls up his agent while making Gone Girl and says like, I'm doing the evil chin movie now. You got to find me a heroic chin movie. And Batman versus Superman also was like, I think Snyder wanted Ham or Brolin were the big two before he got to Affleck. I definitely heard Brolin.

I think Ham was, yeah, considered for both. I think Ham passed and said, I don't want to do superhero shit. Ham was very much like, I'm too old for this shit, I think. Brolin was his top choice and I forget why it didn't work out.

And then it's sort of like a maneuver of Affleck using the heat, but it felt like... Brolin might have been interesting. Brolin would have been good. And I don't think Affleck using the heat, but it felt like... Brolin might have been interesting. Brolin would have been good. And I don't think Affleck's bad as Batman. I mean, I think Affleck, we've talked about it,

just looks like he wants a vape. But it also feels... But it's also just like... It felt like such a midlife crisis move to play when it was announced that he was playing Batman, and then he's getting yoked too. I know.

Like, he's just like yoked too like he's just like it's like he did this thing it felt it felt weirdly in conjunction with like con girl in the like sense that you're just like oh my god like it's also it's just like would you play batman would i yeah i think i do a really good job i think people be really happy if they announce me as batman no pattinson's too big. We're going to go a little smaller. I'm just saying, like, is it hard to turn down Batman? Kind of,

but what's fascinating about Affleck is you're like... But Affleck has all the power in the world to turn things down at this point in time. He does. He had literally just won Best Picture. He knew how it could go wrong. I think around when Air was coming out, I went down a rabbit hole of watching like

every long-form Ben Affleck interview because he's an unbelievable interview. Especially, the last five years, he's just gotten so candid. Oh my God.

That Hollywood Reporter interview that came out with Air was like, wow. I sent emails that were humiliatingly desperate when Air was coming out

being like, please let me talk to him. I would love to talk to him more than anyone. That was always the thing of like, just because he talks so much. People who worked with him were like,

you don't understand how smart and funny this guy is. And then when he'd do press, you're like, none of this is coming across. And it felt like he was doing this like Nick Dunn, insincere,

I have to play normal, straight man, leading man kind of stuff. And then finally, the last five years, he's like, I'm showing you all the full me. I'm not denying, I'm showing you all the full me.

I'm not denying, I'm not saying the tattoo is for a role anymore. Yeah. Like, all this shit. But there was some, one of those interviews I watched,

he talked about, like, how bitter he still was after winning Best Picture. Right. Of just, like, these people still think

I'm a fucking joke. I need to, like, win it back. And the fact that, like like he was validated as a filmmaker made him want to do the entire conventional leading man rotation again to prove them that he wasn't a fuck up. And it was like he's taking all the roles

that he kind of blew 10 years earlier. But this is the one that he nails before he gets back post-Batman. I want to say, we have to talk about the plot, but I just want to say one thing. The idea that Ben Affleck actually shut down production of this film

over wearing a Yankees hat is a joke that David Fincher says on the commentary. It's very clearly a joke. David Fincher is funny. Yes. And dryly funny yes yes ben affleck did indeed say like yeah i pitched a fit over wearing a yankees cap and so i don't

right and like they both tell this is a funny thing that happened during the making of gone girl and has somehow evolved into like ben affleck fam famed Boston prima donna. I mean, I listened to the commentary today. It was funny though, like when we were watching this and Bob was like, we were talking about it. It was like, well, why isn't he wearing like a Cardinals cap?

And it's like, oh, because he bought it at the airport. Right. Yeah. Like that's, that's sort of the thing. He doesn't need to wear a Yankees cap.

Like it's not important to the movie. It is important that he wears a New York hat. Cause the idea is that like, like why isn't he putting on like a because in the next scene he didn't travel with a hat he opens up and he's wearing like a Cardinals t-shirt it's like he realizes he has to hide his anonymity

in some way so he like goes to a store and buys I listened to the commentary today and his delivery is incredibly dry if you're an idiot you would perhaps not pick up on the fact that's a joke. But he does talk about it for like two minutes

and he really plays out the bit of like, it was four days of back and forth with Ben's agent on the phone. Very unprofessional. Production shut down. It was, you know,

deal memos like flying furiously. But yes, it is false. Affleck had been cast as Batman by the time filming was over. Pike's quote, by the time we were in the shower, I was with Batman.

JJ also notes here, he's written a separate line for this. Also, you can see his penis in the movie thumbs up emoji. Okay. Maybe throw an eggplant in there as well. Gone Girl came out in October 2014

but I saw it at its world premiere at the New York Film Festival aren't you fancy did you I did not at that point I was actually working for EW

which was like very exciting because we like had the Gillian Finn connection but I you know at that point I was still sort of a baby and I had

especially at EW I suppose yeah and I hadn't I didn't really get those invites. I did see it on Yom Kippur with my parents. Hell yeah. Great time to see it. It was released.

Because I had this memory of it like, oh, we didn't go to services. We went to see Gone Girl. And I was like, wait, was it actually? And then I was like, yep. Yom Kippur was pretty late that year. It was on October 4th. When did you see it?

I think I saw it opening night AMC 25 by myself it was very much a movie where I was like I want to see this immediately

because I don't want to get spoiled and then right I saw it right because I saw it at Lincoln Square I remember gasping at the dick I remember later hearing

that Fincher was at that screening I know it was at the screening was it at Alice Tully or no it was at Lincoln it was at the AMC Lincoln Square. Oh, weird. And went back and was like, cut two seconds out.

He had watched it and been like, a couple scenes that felt a little long and they cut a few seconds out of the movie. A couple inches off the dick, too. No, no. Are you kidding me? I mean, yeah, they did. They brought it down to ten. Yeah. Listen to Doughboys also if you just want another

45-minute exegesis on this. We're in month 10 of litigation as to whether his dick is big or massive. Right. But, and then I saw it again with my roommate Molly. Yeah.

Because I was just like, you gotta see this thing. It is a blast. Well, I'll say this. And seeing this with like a Times Square crowd opening night, it was one of those things where it's just like

he's got us in his fucking hands. The crowd is just like riding the roller coaster with him. There's some twists. There's some turns. Yes. I remember very clearly

Molly's face looking at me after she slashes MPH's throat. Yeah. Just like, like, you know, because it's crazy. Yeah. Right. That like, you know, because it's crazy.

Yeah. Right. That moment, I remember distinctly thinking to myself, so she's winning the Oscar. Sure. How could anyone beat this? Who beat her? It's somewhat kind of uninteresting, I want to say. How dare you say that.

Right. About Julianne Moore in Still Alice. You know what? say that right about julianne moore and still i do think that is an exceptional performance in a movie that i like you're you're a you're a bigger still alice band than i am yes i am i i actually think that movie is pretty good but it was such a late entry yeah in a year where the other contenders were really interesting and then it was just the Sony Classics play of like, you feel guilty? Give her the fucking Oscars, you dirty dogs. Right.

Like, you know, it's just. It got thrown on the schedule in like October. I know. It was really irritating. Who were the other two nominees that year? Marion Cotillard in Two Days, One Night. Yeah. An incredible performance and a great film.

And Felicity Jones in The Theory of Everything. She's honestly the lead of that film and she is good in it, but, you know, the least interesting, probably, of those performances.

Bad movie, yeah. Not a very good movie. Yeah. I do like Felicity Jones, but obviously, you know, her real peak was yet to come, Your Honor.

Your Honor. Because she's... Oh, Your Honor. I'm joking. I thought you were talking about women don't bong on balloons. She's really made some choices.

That's where I thought you were going to go. I was going to go like, she was in a balloon. I'm a really good aeronaut. I think she says that at some point. Yeah. Gone Girl begins, Griffin, on the fifth anniversary of Nick Dunn and Amy Dunn's marriage. Well, it begins with him stroking her head trying to figure out

what's going on in her brain? Saying he wants to crack her skull open and unspool her brains. Yeah. A great Fincher thing, I mean, we talked about like

his shift to digital is so much less about him preferring the look and more about how much more conducive it is for the workflow. And a big part of that is that like

the amount of insane, obsessive digital touch-ups he likes to do on every element of every shot becomes a lot easier if you're shooting digitally. And so I'm watching this with the commentary and like the first thing he says is so basically every scene Rosamund Pike is wearing a wig in this movie and wig technology has not really advanced in the last 100 years. So basically every shot of her required digital touch-up to remove her wig lines. Wow. But that's like how Fincher's starting the commentary is the shot that starts

in the back of her head, her turning around and he's like so yeah, that's a digitally removed wig line. It's so intentional. It's repeated at the end of the film and the whole point is like there's a certain way in which we just do not know each other even when we're married, even when we're in our most intimate, right? You're seeing the same look on her face. You can interpret it a million different ways.

So it's just funny. The Finch is like, this fucking wig line. But I'm also like, and he never explains this. Why the fuck did she need to wear wigs? Well, her hair changes a lot over the course of the film. Sure. I guess for continuity. Yeah.

Yeah. No, that makes sense. That makes sense. And she kept cutting her own hair. Really annoying. Yes. She kept having tantrums.s no i think it's probably just that so uh that is true and then the movie actually ends with her missing it begins with her missing after this after this little intro he drops to the bar that's right you go straight to the bar you're introduced

to go the bar is called the bar the bar is The Bar. And Nick has a twin sister called Go. Played by the great Carrie Coon. She's so good in this movie. She is so good. We were talking about this, Esther, you and I. Was there much Carrie Coon? Where was she? I knew her from...

Leftovers is the same year. And I knew her from her... from the revival of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf. Right. Which she was in with her husband, Tracy Letts. Right. And I feel like she was mostly doing, like,

Chicago theater. She was a Steppenwolf gal. Yeah. For sure, yeah. Right. And she had done tons of theater, yeah. Yeah. But this performance kind of, like,

lands her with a lightning bolt. Yeah. I mean, this, I guess, plus Leftovers. She's so good in this goddamn movie. Yes. The only reason... Should have been nominated. The only reason she can't get nominated is there's a better female supporting performance, maybe.

In this film from Kim Dickens? Yeah. Kimmy D. Who I adore in this film. I mean, I like her generally. This movie should have had three supporting nominations. Maybe four? Who's the fourth? Tyler Perry. Tyler's three for meler's three that's that's a lot that's a lot

lock does hell yes i think neil patrick harris is very good in this i mean i you know i know there's only five slots and it's probably no space but he's he's very good you keep very well used i don't know if it's jumping ahead too much but you keep watching this movie and thinking like... She's not dead and she faked it. Sorry. You were thinking that because you were smart and you got it. She didn't trick you for a second. Thinking that you know, in addition to

Pike and Affleck, there is like just such interesting casting across the board. Like the Tyler Perry Neil Patrick Harris casting. Emily Ratajkowski. Emma. Wow.

Amrata. We can talk about that. No, all respect to Amrata. I was not talking about her, if I'm being honest. I was talking about mostly like Tyler and Neil Patrick Harris, two people who you sort of don't expect to show up in a movie like this. Yeah, absolutely. And they have very established on-screen brands.

Brands. And playing against in just like playing these strange characters and being so perfect in it. The reason I bring up Amrata is that like, I don't know if you folks remember this, but when the casting announcements were being made for this movie every time someone new got added it was like is he just fucking pulling names out of people magazine right like these feel like there's some weird ploy by him

to like get the budget up odd choices but also people who are like very in the zeitgeist at that moment for one reason or another yeah oh sorry the, sorry. The other one. Casey Wilson. Yes. Love Casey Wilson. Casey Wilson is so... It's like you just don't expect Casey Wilson to be like in this movie, in that role.

And she's so good. Pike, Dickens, like those feel like obvious Fincher casting decisions. And then you're like Affleck, Harris, Perry. I would also say Sheila Ward is like

so perfectly used or something like that. Missy Pyle. Missy Pyle is perfect. Yeah. Scoot McNary. Scoot. Well, this is the period of time

where Affleck would bring Scoot along. He wouldn't bring him on. He'd scoot him on. He'd scoot him on. You would hear a chair going, eh, eh. Who's that?

Oh, boy, oh, boy. Oh, man, Carrie. So I'm looking at my ballot. I have Affleck, Pike perry and dickens and i'm like do i need to put coon in here too coon is so good because i think like i mean the the transformation that she goes from just being sort of like you're like fun loving sister to just like i'm utterly horrified by you i wouldn wouldn't call her fun-loving, but she's definitely like, you know, kind of wry and witty

in the right way. Yeah, I mean, I think she's like, but she's sort of like his, like, they've had this relationship. They have like a fun relationship. So here's my big take from this rewatch. I hadn't seen this movie in a little bit. Okay? And they make the joke later in the film when Affleck's at the airport putting the hat on, the twin cess joke,

right? I may have floated this exact joke Yeah, he floated this to me. What's your version? No, I want to hear yours. No, I want to hear yours. I want to hear yours. I think crucially, Harry Kuhn is playing

the cool girl in this movie. Oh, that's not my take at all. That's interesting. Yeah. You know, in a way, sure. Like, that is the vibe. When you give the cool girl monologue, you realize, like, what Affleck wants

is someone he can talk to like his sister, but fuck, right? Right. And part of the conflict is, and it's this whole thing of everyone trying to. But she's not, she's the cool girl, but without the sort of fuckability aspect. This is the thing, right?

Not that Carrie Coon isn't incredibly beautiful, but she's playing. They make her mousy. Yeah, and they give her those horrible glasses. Right. You know, it feels like a deliberate stylistic choice. I'm putting her in.

Good. It feels like a deliberate stylistic choice. And I also think it's interesting that like her love life is never even. I was about to say, yeah, in this movie, that's sort of, they,

I mean, they don't have space for it obviously anyway, but yes, that she's kind of like this appendage of his. It's also a little queer-coded. Totally. But you don't make any direct reference to that. She never talks about any kind of ex.

There's never an offhand joke about anything. And it is this feeling of like, because Amy is this person, everyone she meets... She'll drink with him at 10 in the morning. Right. Amy is constantly trying to like be crafted by everyone around her

of like, God, you look so amazing. If you could also do this, if you could also be this and look like this on top of it, right? It's a good five.

And, okay, who's your five now? Anne Hathaway in Interstellar, Emily Blunt in Edge of Tomorrow, Kim and Carrie from Gone Girl, and Elizabeth Moss in Listen Up, Phillip. What's the lead performance when we disagree on this? She's like not in most of that movie. She's in a good and Elizabeth Moss and Lissa Phillip. That's a lead performance.

We disagree on this. She's like not in most of that movie. She's in a good chunk of the movie. She's the female lead of the film. Yeah, she's the female supporting actress. She's the female lead of the movie. All right, well, she wouldn't be a winner in Best Actress.

But you give her the win in Supporting Actress? I do. That's a coward's move. It's not. She's the supporting actor. Who do you give the win in Actress? Marion Cotillard. Incredible performance. And that's a great five. Gugu Mbatha-Raw in give the win in Actress? Marion Cotillard. Incredible performance.

And that's a great five. Gugu Mbatha-Raw in Beyond the Lights. Well, yeah, that's my winner. Pike in Gone Girl. Cotillard, S.E. Davis in The Babadook, and Reese in Wild. And I fucking love Reese in Wild. Yeah.

S.E. Davis, Babadook's that same year, too. That's wild. Yeah, that's wild. And then, you know, where's the Babadook at? I don't know. He signed a four-picture deal, and then he never made anything. My point I was making is that, yes,

like, not just that she's drinking with him at 10 o'clock in the morning, right? Not just that she can, like, hang and play a board game with him and be casual and cool, but, like, their dialogue being, like, so rat-a-tat back and forth. Yeah, slap him with your penis, you know? Like, it's also kind of, like, rat-a-tat back and forth. Yeah, slap him with your penis, you know. It's also kind of like transgressive.

But mirrored with when you see the diary entry of the meet-cute between Nick and Amy, where they similarly have this like gaddling gun, clever, really like cynical sort of back and forth. It's like, that's what turns him on. And if you could find someone who fits his physical ideal of what he finds sexually attractive and behaviorally she matches this this is a great and anytime they talk about the tension between the two of them between margot and amy it does

feel like it's like the unspoken part of this must be that amy resents that margot is naturally what she has to work to try to be for that. That was my take was, does Affleck have better chemistry with Coon in this movie than with Pike? Of course. And you had mentioned the moment where she throws the gummy bear in his mouth and he catches it in his leg. That's kind of close to sexual. But I think Amy knows that.

He wants a version of Margot that he can fuck and that he wants to fuck. Well, I mean, they're really the scrimshaw joke i'm you know in their meet cute very funny yeah what does she say she's a minor feudal lord or something warlord or something like that that whole thing's very cute uh uh what's the she's got a stripy top that feels right out of fucking 2005 or whatever i think he called it um uh studied effervescence oh that's clever that That's the thing.

I think Pike sometimes bothers me because it's such a studied performance down to the accent. But like it works so well for Amy where you're like Amy's kind of full of shit. Right. Like who is the real Amy? We don't know because she's always kind of doing a bit of a performance. And like this part of the movie when we're seeing her diary entries like played out on the screen, it feels like... It's her version of it.

Of course. And Fincher's filmmaking feels a little disingenuous, right? It feels a little like sarcastic. The score, like during the romantic section... Oh, it's so good. ...feels cynical. The sugar storm. First time seeing this, I trust Fincher,

not knowing the twist of the book, but I'm like, there has to be a reason these scenes all feel so odd. I don't know if I go so far as odd, but I know what you mean in terms of a little too cute for him. I've seen this movie so many times. Yeah, they are so precious in the sequences where you know even the proposal um it was funny because i've seen this movie so many times but as i said

i have both having the sheets you know that that scene yeah um i uh them fucking in the library where it's sort of like you know it's like, like, we both want to fuck each other at this. Him pausing, mid-cunnilingus. Yes. To say he really likes her or whatever. No, she pauses him to say. Oh, yeah, that's it, yeah. Which is a kind thing to do.

I think you're right. Both sides of it. Two kind things happening. DJ Khaled changes the channel. No, it is fucking cool. I ain't supposed to be in this the channel I'm out I hadn't watched the beginning in a while I've watched this movie so many times

and I because of having cable I put it on and there's something so like unnerving about the cut to blacks in the movie that like he literally fades

in and out like you are going there are like beats of black in between these which make them feel very much like you know you're seeing memory in a way you don't know you know this is not pure flashback you know this is some sort of

memory but you're not but at the beginning, you're not sure who's or what we're seeing. There's a forced disconnect, as you said, like the sort of black in between these fade-ins, fade-outs last, like they linger like a second too long. Yeah, it's like it's not typical

where it's just, where it's sort of, they flow into, it's like it is a pause. Yes. And you know that it's her diary but there's something off about it there's a deliberate falseness they feel very written yeah and the and the sequences feel a little like you know you hear so much about fincher

developing these projects and being like cut that line out that's too cute you don't need to say that i don't want to hit the emotion that hard. Button is dinged for being a movie that like avoids all of these scenes where like the cuteness of the early Nick and Amy stuff, you're like, if he actually wanted to sell this being romantic, this is not how he would do it. So the style of this is dictated by

this is the story that she's telling, which is kind of written like an airport romance novel. And it's a little too good. Much like Kim Dickens is later like, too much evidence in this house, right? Like, it's like, this is too easy. You know, what's wrong with this picture?

We haven't mentioned Patrick Fugit, of course, as well. I think he's good in this movie, but it's also just really nice to see him. Yeah. Just really nice to see him. This. Just really nice to see him. This and We Bought a Zoo, I was like, is Fugit coming back? Well, those movies are three years apart. So that's a slow comeback.

I was holding tight for those three years. That's not exactly a sort of like barreling down with momentum. I held my breath. I think both of those are movies where you're like, Patrick! Nice to see ya! I feel like he did a star show for like three seasons or something and now he's disappeared again.

No, he was in Love and Death. And then Love and Death. The Elizabeth Olsen HBO True Crime. I completely forgot that that happened. How could you forget Another example of the thing we were talking about earlier So Nick

You know his wife's missing He goes back home He goes off to think about his marriage And goes to the bar and all that Comes back home there's been a break in Where's his wife and then in comes Kimmy Dickens and Patrick Fugit And they're just looking around

She's putting post-its everywhere i really like that yes and it feels like i feel like the second post-it you notice you see like a tiny speck yeah yeah and uh it's so goddamn gripping we learned about amazing amy uh we learned about her mean parents i think the book has a lot more of her parents in my memory. Yeah, and I think it has a lot more about his parents much more too. And his mom's a part of the book. Yeah. There's flashbacks to his dying mom and stuff. And I think there's also more

about Amazing Amy too. The children's books. Can I just say it? Amazing Amy sucks. I would never buy Amazing Amy books. You have the Blu-ray? I do, yes? Amazing Amy sucks. I would never buy Amazing Amy books. Do you have the Blu-ray? I do, yes.

I have that, yes. Amazing Amy Tattletail. Yes, which is very funny. And it's like a full, like... It's a full kid's book. It's 30 pages. It's a little arch. It's arch, and it's very much like

they wrote an Amazing Amy that mirrors the movie. I don't know if Forky Jr. Yeah, would enjoy it. A crime, basically. But it's like, what the... I'm supposed to read some book about a girl who's really good at everything? Sounds lame. I want a book about a dinosaur who wears pants or something.

Yeah, pants. That's what I'm saying! David, have you pitched that to anyone? My phone is buzzing. Tyrannosaurus slacks? And it's S-L-A-X? Yeah. I'm not gonna steal that I'm just writing something else down what's up

um you know do you guys think amazing Amy sounds good no I was thinking this reading this of like this is a funny artifact but I don't think any kid would like this it's just funny you know Kim Dickens is like I love amazing Amy we want like our children's heroes to be little stinkers.

You like Eloise. Eloise fucks with shit. Ramona. Eloise is the perfect example that I think they have in Eloise. The whole point is Eloise is a pain in the ass. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, right?

You know, these are our heroines. Yeah. Punky Brewster. She wears two different shoes. I realize she's a TV character. She is crazy. Let's be very clear. She's actually out of control.

She's actually... She is out... Her behavior is outrageous. She needs to be brought to heel. I love the first... Like, the whole true... Like, this movie, obviously, is, like, in the true crime world,

even though it's about a fake true crime, right? But it's about the kind of true crime people would become obsessed with. It feels also very, in some ways, prescient of like... Fincher prescient? No, I know. No, no, you're totally right.

But it's like, it's so on the money. Even though like, the Missy Pyle sort of Nancy Grace, like those are kind of artifacts. Those are more 90s characters. Obviously, these are from the book. But the medium changes. I mean, it's like the style of it changes.

If it was made now, the Missy Pyle character would be like a fun fucking podcast. She'd be a fun fucking podcast. But that first interview Dickens does with Affleck, where it's like very informal. And she's just like, you know, what's your wife's blood type? And he's like, I don't

know. And she's kind of giving him shit for it. Feels like the first chapter of a podcast yes about this shit where it's like you know he was sort of off from the beginning and then he leaves and patrick's like should i know my wife's blood type she's like no no one knows the blood types yeah i don't know my blood type i don't know my blood type 100 do you know your blood type no yeah but that's like what makes her a good fucking detective is she asked the question and it's like she's putting them off balance right exactly about that right tells you more than whether or not you actually know the blood type why i love this performance i've already sort of

said i love it but like right every line reading feels so authentic she this should be taught in line reading school that's a a school, right? Yeah. And like you said, like, she just, like, she just feels like a very competent, practical investigator of crime. But she seems even better at trying to understand his personality. Like, and people's personalities, right? Like, if this is the guy, like, should I be? How much is he lying to me? Like, as a human lie detector, she seems really good. And the Affleck question of like,

is this guy guilty or do I just kind of not like him? Right? This is what I think. The eternal, yeah. This is the thing that I don't think is the same

if it's Jon Hamm. Because like, Mad Men is a show that runs for years based off of this guy behaving poorly and you're like, why do I still kind of like him?

Yes, but the other thing with Don Draper, and I'm deep in my Mad Men rewatches is he is unknowable yes and like then of course once a season he'll like you know go like the farm and you're like oh i love you again i'm so sorry i was ever mad at you but like he's you know still waters run so deep in the same way as the rosamund versus reese thing like Ham would be Affecting a thing that just exists On the surface of Affleck

In Fincher's hands you never know He'd give a great performance Affleck's so incredible Perfect balance of like Tired frustrated Yes Kind of nonchalant clearly is still kind of like i mean what could be wrong right well and there's also like i mean there's that moment where go so amy's so dramatic

like this is some fucking but there's also this moment like it's like when they do the press conference he you know she's like margo's like look like you don't like like you hadn't like you've been up all night like like you haven't slept. Even though he clearly like fell asleep. Everyone knows complicated is code for bitch. Right. This way in which he's an idiot where he just like doesn't, it takes him so long, so much of the running time of the movie to start thinking about the way things he does read. Right. He has that first press conference with her parents where he comes off like a doofus

yes and they take any smiles because he can't help himself he just thinks that's what he should do someone yells at him smile right he's just like and he smiles and he's like and then he's just and he realizes instantly what a stupid fucking thing that was and And his attitude is like, I know I'm innocent, so I'll be fine because I'm innocent. I'm not going to get a lawyer. And he's not considering that he's been gone-girled. Right.

Like, even as clearly, he understands that Amy is a complicated individual. Yeah. But he only, by the time he starts getting the riddles from her, and it's like,

oh, this is some weird game, does he start to think like, is this like a gone girl situation? To be fair, she didn't give him the tip off the way that Bob's ex-girlfriend did. Like, I don't think there was a dinner where Amy said,

just so you know, I'm thinking someday I might gone girl you. And he was like, what does that mean? I have no frame of reference. That has not been turned into a verb yet.

I've got the, yeah, and then we have flashbacks to bad times. Bad times. Right. And it's very much a recession.

His Xbox addiction. Crippling. Crippling. The detail of, right, I feel like there's a hard cut. There's a really funny cut that maybe goes from

this scene where they're on, like, sort of the daybed in the Brooklyn brownstone that she bought with her trust fund from the book.

Right. And we learn, of course, right, that her parents kind of ra with her trust fund from the book. Right. And we learn, of course, right, that her parents kind of raided the trust fund as well. And then she handed over more money to them.

Right. And like, what are we going to do? And he starts to like flip out about like our lifestyle and then sort of says, you know, his version of like,

as long as we're together, I'm happy. We can make whatever work. And then I think there's the hard cut to him on the couch. Yeah.

Surrounded by light beer and Chinese takeout, playing Xbox. Like this guy's entire... It's specifically Natty Light. And he even calls out in that conversation. Natty Ice. It's not good. Tough situation. You're not doing good. And you're not 19 years old, to be clear. If you're 19 years old,

you're doing great. High five. Funnel of beer for me. I feel like Natty Ice is also his beer in the way back. High five. Do funnel a beer for me. Yeah. I feel like Natty Ice is also his beer in the way back. Like that might be an Affleck detail. Yeah. Wait, fuck. What is his beer in the way back?

Sorry. The thing in the way back that is so haunting. The shower beers? Well, no, the freezer. Oh, yes. He takes one out of the fridge. Yes. Puts it in, like, puts it in the freezer. Yeah, he takes them out of the, yeah,

puts it in the freezer for a little extra. For a little extra. It's Cutler's. As soon as he takes it out of the freezer, he puts another one in the freezer. Yeah, he takes them out of the freezer for a little extra. For a little extra. And then as soon as he takes it out of the freezer, he puts another one in. And it is haunting. I think it might be a fake beer. It's so real. My guess is that no real beer company

wants to be associated with movies about people who drink beers in the shower, right? Yeah, but the freezer thing in the way back is so haunting. Like, it is so haunting. I think it's cool. I think it's cool. I think it's what cool guys do. I think it's cool and good.

It's what I started doing. It's like, great tip. I watched this movie about drinking. It was just like a way how to drink. Thanks, Ben. Just even in that scene where she tells him about the money, he calls out like, so what? You hand him the money.

You know, like the state of media. I lose my job. You lose your job. Like, he's like, presaging, like, this whole thing might fall apart very quickly. And she is sort of like, well, it's their money. Yes. Which is sort of, like, technically true. They wrote the books. But also...

There's this kind of undercurrent of, like, but it's sort of me. It's like reparations money. Right. They made me into this creature. Right. You're kind of undercurrent of like, but it's sort of me. It's like reparations money. Right. They made me into this creature. Right. You're kind of owed this money because of the psychological damage this is going to cause for the entirety of your life.

Her parents, like, obviously suck. Like, they're so annoying. They suck ass. Very well cast, whoever they are. Lisa Baines and some other guy. Oh, Lisa Baines, actually. David Clennon. He's from The Thing.

Yeah. He's David Clennon. Lisa Baines, just sorry, tragically died recently. Oh, he's David Clennon. Lisa Baines, just sorry, tragically died recently. Oh, really? I'm so sorry, Lisa Baines.

No, no, no. She died two years ago. She was, it was, it was the famous thing. She was the,

one of the, she was hit, she was hit by a scooter. The airport side. Oh, yes. Yeah, that was crazy.

Yes. And he was like, sentenced to prison because he like, ran a light. Yeah, it was a hit and run. She was crossing the street.

She was like, working at Juilliard and she was like, crossing the street. Well, she working at Juilliard and she was like crossing the street. Well, she's very good in this film playing someone, a waspy person who kind of sucks. And so it's like, this place smells like feces of Missouri.

Fincher said she was cast because of that line. Yeah. She did that scene in our audition. She crushes it. And he said, the way she delivered that line, I wanted that in my movie.

Now, you have Kathleen Rose Perkins showing up as the lady who takes a selfie with him. And he's like, wait, delete that. Yeah, she's really funny. 45 minutes in, he goes home. Amrata is there. Really good twist.

Well, he has the text from the unlisted number that says, I'm outside. And he's looking around as if someone's going to attack him. And at this point, if you haven't read the book, you're watching the movie for the first time, I'm like, is this the moment that you find out he's guilty? And here's a conspirator who's going to come and under like the cover of night. It's good.

Important to remember how on our seat, like, you know, on the edge of our seats we were. Yeah. And then it's her. And you're like, it's funny because I was a piece of shit. But then you're right back to like,

but does that mean he killed her? Right? Which is the whole tension of the movie. Right. But you're like, that's why he seems guilty because he does suck, but he's not a murderer.

And there is the, look, I mean, there's rumors that Affleck demanded her casting, right? Which I think are maybe made up. People love to make up rumors

about Matt Affleck. Fincher at least credits him with suggesting her. I will say that. And there is the undeniable tension of Affleck clearly as someone who has perhaps straight outside of his marriage

and life, who knows. And certainly, like, the scene that always gets me is when he says, like, she's a really good person, like, way later. And you're like, shut the fuck up, man.

Like, stop trying to justify sleeping with a student. It's so lame when he says early 20s and Margo just says so she's 20 at some later time right really good line it's like I know exactly what you're saying you fucking ass I want everyone to answer

this question yeah does he deserve to get gone girl simply for the fact that he dated him right you know cheated on his wife with with her yeah like it's like one day he's cheating on her with another person their aid like up here i mean no he fell in love he did the deplorable basic ass thing like now i'm sleeping with a student who's like half my age right does he deserve to get great great exchange where she says like jesus christ i thought writers hated cliches and he goes i'm not a writer anymore. And she goes, like, is this about you fucking

losing your job? Right. It's such a, like, obvious crisis move. But this is also where I think the erotic casting... But then he fucks, sorry, he fucks her in Go's house. His wife is missing. His wife is missing. And he has sex with his mistress. And he's at his sister's house.

That's the moment. Right. And he, they have sex and you're just like, stop it, you dumb, dumb, dumb dummy. I think he retroactively

deserves to be gone, girl, the moment he fucks her after she's gone. You think that's actually, Ben, do you think he deserves to be gone?

No. All right, all right, all right. You're right. You're probably right. The thing's interesting. Even though he bought her

a disposable phone to text him on. And he buys her all gifts and cash. I'm really struggling here on how to be careful answering these questions. You're right. He probably doesn't get to get framed for murder. Should anyone be gone, girl?

Of course, that's the great moral question of our time. I like treating being gone, girl, like it's the death penalty. Like, should that even be a recourse? Then, of course, we see scenes. Okay. You have a thing to say? I do. Oh, I'm so sorry.

I do, in fact, have a thing to say. Oh, okay. No. Okay. In the commentary, he's talking. He says, I didn't know who to cast for this part. And Affleck goes like, well, you should watch this music video. This is who we should get.

But there is some. Text from Affleck. Blurred lines. Yeah. It's really interesting. She seems to have like a good command of herself on camera. I mean, look, I think she's quite good in the film. Also, I like her.

But the meta casting of it being like at the moment this film is being made she's sort of the obvious like oh that's like the girl from the poster that's the guy that every young dude is using a shorthand for like i'd give my left nut to fuck him or at a kate upton or whatever you know the most uh sort of the hottest model of the year or whatever yeah And Fincher said, and this shows like such a, it's why this movie plays so well. But like he is so smart psychologically understanding the way the audience as a group is going to respond

to things. And he said that casting had to be someone who just cut through the audience a straight line like a saber. Because every woman in the audience, when she's the reveal of who shows up is going to go fuck. Disgusting. Right. I can't believe this. Right. What a cliche.

And every guy is going to lean forward and stroke their chin and go, this is a dumb move, but I kind of get. I understand. Someone like that would be in Missouri. I mean, geez. It's that thing of country. I mean, but someone looked like that. I think most, not to be crass, but like most guys in the audience are just going like, oh, boy.

OK, don't fuck her now. Don't fuck her on Margo's couch when you're already under suspicion. And then she takes her top off and you're like, I don't know if I could resist. I actually don't know if in that moment I don't want to admit to my weakness. I mean, Finchercher of course right his ultimate diagnosis is we're all like perverts and liars right and he's like yeah you would all you you you don't think you're better than him or a little bit yeah it's easy to say you wouldn't yes i still probably would i'd be i think i'd be really stressed out in that moment i'd be so

stressed out i'd be just a little stressed in the next round yeah her their relationship i don't want to touch like god knows they've heard a lot of things. Margot's in the next realm. Their relationship, I don't want to touch. Like, God knows they've heard a lot of things. I don't know about that. The following morning. His wife is missing. The following morning, he like ushers her out. And Affleck has this great like millisecond moment of like, I fucking did it. I nailed it.

I actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No one's outside. No one's seeing it. Pulled it off. And then the camera swings over. You see Margot in the background just being, you fucking colossal piece of shit. I've been like defending you. Just because he's a regular piece of shit, though, doesn't mean, you fucking colossal piece of shit. I've been like defending you.

Just because he's a regular piece of shit, though, doesn't mean he's a murderous piece of shit. That's, well... But we're cutting right from that to the next entries in her diary, in Amy's diary, which are suddenly lurid. It's him pushing her against the banister.

It's her going to the weird abandoned mall filled with like vagrants and criminals where she buys a gun yes and you're watching this and you're like okay like i guess but you're also again you're kind of like this feels neat right you know this feels kind of invented which it is you know and my read on it by the way you're also more likely to believe it because you've just seen him fuck emerald yeah yes you are definitely like, this guy's innocent as hell. My read is that the staircase fight happens and her embellishment is the push. It feels very clear that he is like.

Their marriage is not happy. No, but I also think the specifics of that fight, there's something to like, the dynamics are so interesting where he's like playing the game of like I'm going out with friends it's going to be so boring you don't want to come you know like you could if you wanted to he's giving himself the brownie points for like being considerate and asking about her day I think he's

leaving to go fuck Amrata right like that's why he's trying to show her off trying to play the like good guy and the second she needles him like an inch he's trying to show her off yeah yeah yeah but he's like really trying to play the like good guy and the second she needles him like an inch he's doing the like we're really gonna fight about this now and she's like I'm not fighting I asked you a question and he's like I don't have time for this

he's so worked up the shit he says about the baby is so out of line where she's just like I could use this right now I need something to give me some sense of identity. And his response is, having a baby isn't a hobby. He's so inconsiderate to the fact that it's just like, right, she has no sense of self anymore.

No, he's... And I love that their house, while like technically nice, it has many rooms. Yes. It has like amenities. They sure do. Is like clearly this kind of like soulless McMansion-y like thing that has no character

whatsoever to it. They move there for his mom. Right. His mom still died. Right. When he, Kim Dickens asks if she has any friends. His dad is like suffering.

So they haven't left. And obviously the recession. Right. His dad's in a home. But has like seemingly late stage dementia. Right. His dad, who Margot says also cheated on their mom a home but has like seemingly late stage dementia. Right. His dad who Margo says also cheated on their mom

a bunch. She says you're just like dad. Right. But when Kim Dickens asks if she has any friends he's like well she was very close

with my mom. Sounds cool. Yeah. And then that person died. Yes. We should be sympathetic. You're right. We should be sympathetic

to Amy. And throughout all of this, except that she garnered. Like Casey Wilson is coming up being like. I'm her friend. Yeah, I'm her friend. What is he called? Befriend a local idiot?

What is her line exactly? I think it's like befriend a local idiot. It's so masterful in where it like swings the audience allegiance. And that's one of those things where you're like really starting to feel bad for the sadness of her life right and then when she immediately reveals like i fucking worked this

dumb lady next door for my own advantage you're like so you're kind of an asshole too like it's it's the beauty of this movie is just like she definitely do deserve each other she thinks she's better than everybody yes or has some it's not just a projection. Right. She's amazing Amy. She is amazing. Another Kim Dickens scene I love right after all this is when she's with Fugit and he's like, why haven't we arrested him? She's like, I'm conducting an investigation. And he's like, do you have like a crush? And she's like,

don't ever talk to me that way again. Like very quietly. Not in an angry way. Yes. But she has total control the whole time until the end of the movie. You know, when, you know, she knows something is up, but there's nothing she can do anymore. Then we have the candlelight vigil,

Casey Wilson yelling at him. And then... Saying that she's pregnant. Saying that, did you know she was pregnant? Then we have Kim Dickens being like, let me walk you through your house. Blood here. Like, you know,

you seemingly unaware of all this, but like, you know, the lab test results came back. She Blood here. Like, you know, you seemingly unaware of all this, but like, you know, the lab test results came back. She was pregnant. Like, you know. He's also, at this point, already started to become like a media object.

Yeah, right. The TV's obsessed with him. Because of the selfie with the Frito Pie lady. So when he does the speech at the candlelight vigil, it's the first time where he's like, I actually need to sell this.

I need to perform this. And he's doing an okay job until Casey Wilson calls him out. And now it's like, he actually need to sell this. I need to perform this. And he's doing an okay job until Casey Wilson calls him out. And now it's like, he's completely lost control of the narrative. The whole thing's spinning out of control. And Kim Dickens is presenting to him, by the way, here's how neatly so much of this lines up.

All her blood is here. And that whole line she has about kidnapping makes us think about people outside the house. Blood inside the house. She finds the mallet in the furnace yes he finds the fire doesn't get rid of blood right he finds the shed with the um the gifts in it we haven't even mentioned the whole birthday scavenger hunt clue thing which is how this is all unfolding resents like everyone talks about like this annoying thing i have to do every fucking year that to most people feels like the thing that like couples do on where you're like, get the fuck over it.

This is like work you're doing to look charming to everyone else. To be fair, Esther and Bob do a massive treasure hunt across the five boroughs every year. So, you know, we shouldn't be. They're badly in love and they're going to gone girl each other. But just that you're feeling like, oh God, I can't keep track of all this now. Like I'm starting to lose like focus on

whether he's guilty or not or what are all the evidences. He opens the shed, black, cut to Amy. Boom. One hour in.

One hour in. Yeah. Emily, Amrata comes in around 45 minutes. Amy is an hour and five. Yeah. Yeah.

Fincher said the hardest part of making this movie in many ways was like going to Fox and being like the marketing of this film in every way has to be centered only around the first 45 minutes

only around where is she she's gone girl you don't know what you got until it's gone he said the only shot that he allowed to be included in any of the press past the 45 minute mark close up on Neil Patrick Harris' bloody penis. Of course.

That would be funny. He's like, you can use this shot. You don't want to? You don't want to. It's from the late in the film. I could make it for a good one, Chief. Character poster. What did he allow?

The imagined shot of her dead body underwater. Yes, which is crucial to the trailer. And when that shot's in the trailer, you like are they spoiling the movie but he's like i want the audience to go in thinking that there is in fact a dead body so the question becomes did this guy kill her or not so that the deflection is you have been thinking about is she possibly still alive and then the fact that the introduction is my life's gotten so much better since i died i mean and also it's just that movement to the shed yeah you know him realizing it the score going like wild um resner and ross just sort of wiling out and then and then that cut i mean i don't know it's funny because because I had read the book,

so I was coming into it with less like, with like just such this anticipation of how are we going to do this. Because the book has the same concept of like, and part two. It's his diary. Yeah. Well, it's like, it's his narration. Then her diary.

Diary. And then, you know, and then. Here's Amy for real then here's Amy for real here's Amy for real no cut to her in the car is the moment where I'm like hooting and hollering

I'm like okay I know why Fincher did this movie I'm locked in I don't know where this is going but I get why this is more than

just what I thought this film was from the logline and she first has her little monologue on you know how she did it and things like

you know befriend a pregnant idiot, ply her with lemonade, steal her urine, things like that. But then right after that is the cool girl monologue. It bleeds into motive, right? First, it's like, here's why I did it. Throwing the pens out of the window. Here's how I did it.

And then here's why I did it. Yeah. He said the main reason he cast Casey Wilson is that, like, most of her performance is in this sort of montage stuff. Right. And they weren't going to write dialogue scenes and Casey Wilson could improvise them. Right. And he would like roll for 30 minutes on the two of them having girl talk.

And he was just like, even if it's silent. Give me the B-roll. I want to see that. He's like the body language of what they're doing. She sold so well and I knew she could, like, basically generate the material. Right. Yeah. That sounds fun.

Just Rosamund and Casey. Yes. Girl talking. They're pretty different. Like, I'd like to see it. I'd like to see how those two interact. The thing he called out was, like, they'd have these conversations where, like, Casey is really dialed in comedically, and Rosamund's getting very emotional and, like, breaks down and starts crying. And Casey Wilson would punctuate it by, like, re-pouring the wine glass right right that's good yeah she can

only drink lemonade though she's pregnant that's true um cool girl monologue what do we this is very crucial to the culture i know it's in the book it's in the book i i have to say rewatching a point that i wanted to make which is that so much followed in this footsteps. And there was so much hullabaloo about the cool girl monologue and just sort of about this like 2014 feminism. is so fascinating because it's written, it does have this element of truth, but it's also obviously written from the perspective of a crazy person. Which is amazing. But so many people took this as sort of gospel.

I think this is worth pointing out. Sure. I also think it is sort of about a type that's a little dated at this point. But, you know, at the moment it felt more relevant. In the moment, it felt very relevant. I mean, honestly, Amrata felt like a very, you know, her at that time.

And honestly, like, as she has gone on since then, has very much combated that, too. They're like, you know, I'm one of the boys, but also I'm this beautiful sex object. I'm, you know, I'm posting pictures of myself topless all the time. But I'm also, you know, it felt both revelatory at the time, but I think it's like so important to remember context. But I do think there's something to her woundedness of like, I did fucking everything right. I'm the, i was the best but i think the other and then he fucking throws me over for some like younger model like how dare he like you're bouncier yeah yeah yeah but i think the other thing that is it's gonna sound weird so

fucked up but like since then there have been so many sort of attempts at like sort of subversive feminist work that this like that feels trying to speak to a specific moment what are you thinking of drag them i'm not even i mean like honestly like I am a defender of this movie but like promising young woman like you know I'm somebody who likes that movie wow both her movies

have come up on this podcast David's making a face that I won't describe I like I'm making a grimace no but I I did

he's making more of a Hamburglar what did you say a Hamburglar face David's making a grimace and he's making a Hamburglar face. David says his girlfriend says he's a Hamburglar. It's probably the best joke I've made in 15 years.

Get out of here. You're going to be two of those a week. But what I was going to say was like, even in its fucked upness, it's sort of like, it feels like Gone Girl

sort of latched on to a, was sort of organically spoke to a moment rather than latching on to a moment and therefore feels sort of timeless in its commentary on, like, men and women dynamics and, you know, the sort of cool girl feminism of the time. And it felt...

It doesn't feel dated in a way that I think, you know, other stuff has. I agree. I mean, I also have to defend Promising Young Woman. David's now making

a Ronald McDonald face. Mayor McCheese. Okay, Mayor McCheese. I'm sorry, it's the funnier version. But I think that is a movie that like on a pretty fundamental level does not really have a

clarity in what it is saying or what its worldview is it often does things that are like working against itself whereas I think the cool girl monologue

is like was taken by a lot of people at the time because it was such a good, entertaining summation of a thing that had not necessarily been totally crystallized. It's kind of a rallying call inadvertently. But it is like means to an end

for the larger thing that I think this movie is about. And even Rosamund Pike calls it out later in the movie more directly, but it's given less attention here, which is just like dating is this like weird form of theater, like relationship is a form of theater. Right. And the most extreme part of that is that like when people meet each other, they present the absolute best version of themselves. There is this like trickery in flirtation, in seduction, in like meet-cutes of just like, well, you choose

when to dole out what information about yourself, show what sides when people get deep enough into the foxhole with you that those things are no longer like turnoffs, right? Right. And the cool girl thing is a version of that. And the movie presents that as like part of a larger societal pressure towards women. that and the movie presents that as like part of a larger societal pressure towards women but there's also the thing that they call out about like nick was presenting a like impossibly charming version of himself that he could not maintain and like when he's tired he's not that charming and eventually she has to spend time around tired nick you know that's dating too that's what i'm saying

you're presenting your best version i'm saying that's the too. That's what I'm saying. You're presenting your best version. I'm saying that's the bigger point this movie is making is that like you date someone based on the best version you meet or the version that you fall in love with. And then over time, those layers start to go away. And it's like the best relationships are ultimately the ones where when those layers go away, you still like each other. But some people find themselves in these situations where you're like, wait, who am I with? And it creeps up on you over time, over a long period of time.

Some people might go to couples therapy. Some people might cheat on their partner. Some people gone girl their husbands. I don't understand. That's what I'm saying. Those are three equivalent things. Amy's move is like, what if I gone girl you? And then you say, as you say, she's like, maybe I'll just kill

myself to prove a point. I think six of some half a dozen of the other. I think you're therapy gone girling or like. Okay, here's my question. And I mean, we're trying to understand the mindset of a fictional character who is, as Esther says, a little crazy. But still, does

she want the whole time for Nick to quote unquote be the man she married again and like win her back which is what he does yes somewhat inadvertently yeah or is that another escape valve for her when she kind of realizes like i actually don't know what to do with myself as a person no i think that's the i think it's i think it's an escape valve because i think what happens because there's a movie about marriage right right? It's like a whole satire. I think that's the thing. She never really wants to kill herself.

No. She doesn't know what to do with herself. She doesn't know what to... She's the dog who caught the car. Right. She planned it all up to a point. She always has a question mark next to kill herself. She doesn't feel like that's necessary.

Yeah. It's not, she doesn't feel like that's necessary. Yeah. And she starts doubting it when she's spending, when she's in the sort of motel area. She starts sort of to doubt that element of the plan because she's also having too much fun watching him sort of get grilled over the coals. Is that raked over the coals?

Yeah, raked, I would say. And then once she loses all her money, she's like, she reaches out to Desi, raked, I would say. And then once she loses all her money, she's like, she reaches out to Desi, which she knows is a trap anyway. And then- Desi is the desperation play. Desi is the desperation play.

And as soon as she gets there, she's like, oh, fuck, I need to get out of this. But that moment- And then she's watching the interview and she's like, oh, he's playing my game. Right, right.

And that's hot. My read on it is, I think it's not that she is specifically suicidal, but I think she has no sense of self anymore. Right, right. So it's like, number one thing is she wants to punish Nick. But the second thing is like, she cannot envision what her life is anymore. Yeah. Because the key detail of this movie is the book is the amazing Amy series. Right.

It's not just that like her boyfriends have done this to her. It's not just Nick. And, you know, even there's a similarity in how Desi, Scoot and Nick all talk about her where they're like, I meet this girl. I'm like, she seems unreal. Right. Like, how could she possibly be this great? Right.

There's this presentation of her that is just, like, impossible. And then when I can't keep up, it starts to fall apart or whatever. Like, they all kind of have this thing of, like, I kind of failed her. Right. Well, and it's also this thing of, like, you know, she, which I believe, if I'm not, if I'm remembering correctly, the book goes into more. That, like, you know, she was supposed to be this great writer and she's writing quizzes. Personality quizzes. You know, she's writing

personality quizzes. She was supposed to have more of a career. They keep telling you you have to murder your husband. It's weird. I give up my cello. I give up the cello. The next book, Amy becomes a cello prodigy. She's actually something of a failure who has been like, who has kept up appearances.

So she hates herself in a certain way. Thoroughly, deeply, deeply. And she doesn't like who she is if she really has to spend time with herself, which she's now forced to do in Missouri, right? She can live through the relationships, through her job, through her friends. But suddenly all those things have gone away. They've been gone-girled out through her friends. But like suddenly all those things have gone away. They've been gone-girled out of her life.

The fact that she has to like go to press events, right? Like book parties for the anniversary of the book where a table of people want to sit around and ask her about who she is, where it's like, this is her life. Like she's rich off of this, but like she has to do these fucking where-are-she-now

kind of things. Yeah, it's sad. like she has to do these fucking where are she now kind of things. It's sad. That have nothing to do with her present sense of self. They have entirely to do with like this constructed version of her that was a version of her that was a reflection of her never being good enough for her parents. She's amazing. Look how pretty she is. Look how talented she is. But also in the book, she's even better.

And you're right. The books sound like they suck. No one would actually read them. But that has to be the thrust of the book of she is the most perfect girl in the book, she's even better. And you're right. The books sound like they suck. No one would actually read them. But that has to be the thrust of the book of she is the most perfect girl in the world. She always does everything right. It's a great motif, right? It's a great, yeah, it's a great device. So I think she's like, it's the fact that the post-it note is kill myself with a question mark.

Yeah. That it's not a clear end point that she's like, I guess that's probably what I do. Because what else would I do at that point? Right. Because she can't go back to New York, she can't resume her life. I think when she pigs out, hits her face with a hammer,

dyes her hair, reinvents herself in the Ozarks, there's a little bit of like, she's actually kind of stripped everything out of her personality. It's not like she's killing it. She's still doing a fake accent, but yes. But for once, she's like not playing the game of trying to impress other people. And I think

that's the one where she's like, wait, why would I kill myself? I can just like reset. I can find a new life for myself. This isn't it, but like I can venture out and find something new. When she goes to Desi, she's like, I need more money to continue doing research to figure out what kind of person I want to be.

My project of reinvention, which is my new project. My old project was frame my husband for murder. Now my new project is my next phase. And then as you said, Esther, seeing him on the TV, doing the interview where he's talking to her. Suddenly it's like, oh, I'm reconnected with what made us like each other in the first place. I think that's true. But I do think it's also an escape valve. She is also kind of like, I fundamentally don't know who

I want to be because I don't know who I want to be. I have no sense of self. And she's also, I mean, it's also, and it's also like the Desi thing is desperation and she realizes there she's in a worse place than she would ever be before because he's like, because he's also psycho. And she's a terrifying character, but it's also like

it's why the cool girl monologue exists where it it's just like, it's every step of her life has been building her to this point. Well, it's also, it is this weird relatability that she has, which is sort of what you were saying earlier, because everyone has put on a different face to impress somebody. Yes. At some point in time. Right. I've never had. No, David Huff never has. He's always... Exactly. Yeah, so authentic.

Now, I have... How many Fincher films have voiceover narration? Obviously, the film Gone Girl does. Fight Club. Fight Club has voiceover narration. The Killer. The Killer. This is my point. The Killer has voiceover narration. Benjamin Button has voiceover narration now the killer this is my point the killer has voiceover narration benjamin button has voiceover narration a diary as well yeah right much more sort of that

that's the most mundane i would say right that's really like uh and then it's a casual trip down a laser seven has morgan freeman saying you know the world is but he doesn't have much narration apart from that right okay so it's really just like fight club forget button for a minute let's take button out of the equation i don't think you'd forget me if you met me i got quite a curious case but like fight club gone girl and the killer are all very unreliable voice like the voiceover is ever present yeah but you're kind of like wait after a while you're like wait the voiceover's full of shit i didn't realize i didn't realize this was lying to me like it's also they're also all like funny i know you haven't seen the killer yet but like yeah you will you will but that's

fincher's fundamental take on dialogue which i think i've invoked before as he says like i think people use words to lie dialogue should not be like revealing truth finchy come on no one's a truth though no all liars the truth comes one's the truth, though! No, all liars. Perverts and liars. The truth comes across in the behavior and the actions. But, like, all dialogue is sort of what Gone Girl

is getting at of, like, you presenting the version of yourself you need to win that moment. Even if it's, like, 90% true, it's like, how do I sell this? It's also so sort of great that you get the cool girl monologue

and then actually the narration slips away. Yes. And then we're just with her. But then hard reality. But then after that, what do we cut to? You know, after some motel business, let me tell you what we cut to. And it's so crucial. Tyler Perry sitting, laughing,

being essentially like, what is the matter with you? You know, like, this is the craziest shit I've ever heard. It's so vital for the audience, I think, to be like,

yeah, this is crazy. Like, this is how people behave. And Tyler Perry is so good. He's so, he is so good. Look,

I think Tyler Perry's obviously a talented performer, but he largely plays, like, either, you know, Medea, who's a little on the colorful side. She's a little over the top. But I'd say he plays her quite well. He certainly knows. He has a handle on that performance, I guess.

Good afternoon. Hello, Rean. Or I feel like when he's in his own films and he's not playing medea he's usually playing kind of a boring character like he's playing kind of like a straight man like kind of i'm just like a decent guy right right right he often plays the sort of like well i can help you fix the house kind of like you're like why are you even doing this but i guess you know you're such a big name and he's not a very nuanced writer this is true um but um and then in this you're like he's so insanely like it's such a natural performance right he's so funny yeah he's like

so responsive to like we're just like can i get more of this like there are a couple of them i think he'll pop in every couple of every other year or so and do one of these i think his one scene in those who wish me dead is incredible. It is. That is not a movie I think about often. Knockout thermostat one scene performance. But it is. I remember him being pretty good in Don't Look Up. Not that I like care about that movie. I still contend

he is the best performance in Vice. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Vice sucks. He's in Vice, alright. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, who's he in that? It's Baxter Stockman, my friend! Very good. Is he good?

He's okay in that. I mean, that's one where he's like, I did that for my daughter. Alex Cross... Well, that's why Fincher cast him in this. I know. It's just... Is he good in that? I mean, that's something that should... Here's what's frustrating about Alex Cross. He's just kind of like in that i i mean that's something that should here's what's frustrating about alex just kind of like why didn't that work yeah right well because he hired rob cohen

yeah yeah like largely a hack right huge hack and he's a bad director right and it was a project largely shepherded by tyler perry who doesn't have the best dramatic instincts is much better comedy than he is a drama. I'm just like, why can't I get a Tyler Perry crime thriller every three years, you know? If Gone Girl had come first, and then he was like, I want to take on Alex Cross, I think a better Alex Cross franchise would have gotten constructed around him.

Versus the moment Alex Cross happens, it felt almost like this weird vanity ego thing of like, Tyler Perry releases three hit movies a year and now he wants to have his own like, cop franchise.

Right. Because that movie was Lionsgate as well? I can find out. It felt very much like a, Tyler, if you want to do this, by all means,

go do this and then come back and give us three more Madea movies. Well, I mean, there's obviously the Alex Cross books are huge bestsellers. There's a world where

they're like, hell yeah, please. The upside on this is potentially great and the downside is almost nothing. I also think he is good in Star Trek and I will never forget. I saw that movie at the Eagle Court Street. The audience going completely ballistic

at the sight of him. Amazing. Where I was kind of like, this man has more juice than anyone on Earth right now. Like, you know, like, also because no one knew he was in that movie in the Regal Court Street audience. Like, I think I'd heard, like, oh, he's a huge Trek fan and wants to do a cameo. Yeah.

Like, or something. Anyway, I'll never forget it. The only other one I haven't seen is Brain on Fire. What the fuck is that? Yeah, what is Brain on Fire? Chloe Grace Moretz. When she's in a movie, you know it's good. A young, capable professional cannot explain her newly erratic behavior.

It's based on a bestseller. It was about this person who had encephalitis. It was a memoir. Yeah, I remember that book. Never saw the movie. No, that's just the only other instance of what we're talking about, of like Tyler Perry just turns in some serious supporting work. He's so good

and this role obviously should be almost quasi villainous in a way like yes oh the fucking attorney who takes on the deadly husbands he's likable immediately he's like laughing but he's like look i believe you because this is too crazy for you to be making it up right uh but like you know and i'm all the way in and you're just immediately like, I love this guy. Well, here's what Fincher said. Go ahead.

One, he said, Tyler Perry is one of the best living actors at listening on screen, which is an interesting thing. And crucial. And I don't think

I would have picked up on. Like, Fincher clearly just saw that in him and it certainly pays off like, crazy in this film, right? Right.

But the other thing he said is like, you read the character in the book, the way the guy is positioned, the way he's framed, the way he's talked about his reputation, the types of cases he represents, right? Often representing guilty people. The way it reads on paper

is you imagine him being more of a like Baldwin and Glen, Gary, Glen Ross. And he said, if that guy enters with that energy at this point in the film, the audience is going to hate him. Yes, hate him, hate Nick for associating with him. He's going to be so unsavory.

And that's exactly the stereotypical. Right. That's the easiest way for that character to come across. Weirdly, it's like, what we're talking about, all the sort of like wet paper, a decent good man, sort of boring guy roles

that Perry will put in his own films and play himself. Right. Or the foundation for him in this where it's like, there is that weird

fundamental just kind of like gentle decency of Tyler Perry and like the morality of him that comes across where, Alex Cross, where...

Don't cross him right you're never grossed out by this guy yeah and it helps that it's like you know by reputation he represents a lot of guilty people you know at this point in the movie that Nick is innocent right you want him to kind of like be like we're fighting on the right side here

right and also there is kind of this moment of like okay Nick you need a lawyer like you can't just keep like hanging out with Kim Dickens and being like, yeah, I don't know, what's up? You know, which is what he's been doing. The thing that is astonishing is the authority with which Tyler Perry delivers everything. Such a quiet, like, unforced authority

in all these scenes where he's like, here's exactly what you need to do. And when he says something, you're like, I absolutely believe this guy. I would follow every instruction he gives something, you're like, I absolutely believe this guy. I would follow every instruction he gives me. Definitely. Yes, definitely.

And then the crucial moment later in the film where Affleck's like, I can handle this interview. I'm zagging. You're kind of like, these two are now locked in with each other

where he's like, okay, all right. I think, you know. Yeah, I mean, and it's just, it is such a good, like, because I think the thing

about Tyler Perry is he's a brand, like, he is a brand, too. And so is this character. And you sort of get the idea that, like, he knows what it's like to sell, you know? And that, I think, is part of it. The thing Nick has been missing this whole movie and the thing Affleck has always struggled with. Tyler Perry has excelled at in his life. Yes.

But also just like consistency of message. Right? Like consistency of brand. And selling yourself. Yeah. Absolutely. And maybe we should have a Tanner Bolt Daredevil crossover. Tanner Bolt's like defending someone in the inner city maybe and, and Daredevil's there, too. I just want

him doing shit like this. I do, too, but also, if this is it, what a thing. Yeah. What a thing to later in life be like, by the way, you know, this guy was a mogul and, like, one of the most successful comedy, you know, he made movies every year. It was a whole other thing

and he just parachuted into this film and crushed it. It's why you wish he had gotten the Oscar nomination though. Cause it would have been a nice, like, like Dexter Gordon, Mikhail Baryshnikov. Yeah.

Right. Like, Hey, by the way, right. Good job coming in and killing it. Even if this isn't your main thing you want to do, you can play with the big boys.

Look, he's great. Um, at this point, we're sort of cutting between him being like, okay, let me meet Margo. Let me go to the houses. Let's try and figure this out. And everything unraveling for Amy

with Lola and Boyd. Lola drinking Mountain Dew in a glass full of ice. Just sitting in the lazy boy chair with the bottle and the cup and the ice. Just sitting in the lazy boy chair with the bottle and the cup and the ice. And what I think is probably, which is a makeup choice to have her

have this giant cold sore. Yes. Fincher casting the, you know, British American daughter of a musician who went to like eight, you know, of the fanciest schools and barred and all that. And being like, you're gonna make sense as like a real, like, piece of shit girl, like, you know, of the fanciest schools and barred and all that. And being like, you're going to make sense as like a real like piece of shit girl. Someone who's like 10 years older would have auditioned for Amy.

Right. Right. Yeah, sure. Sure. And it like totally works. Yes. It's so fun. I mean, that's the one thing in the commentary where the one person where he's like, this

is me casting someone who could not be farther from this character. Right. Yeah. Which I usually don't try to do. I love she spits just she spits in her mountain dew yeah yeah it's such a weird power move but it makes sense for the character i really do believe her when she's kind of like by the way like this could have been worse like we're just you know hitting you and taking your stuff like other people are worse yeah anyway see you later we really need the money and i'm sort of they're going off and i'm like i hope they buy some great drugs or whatever it is they're gonna

in in the way that like really good math them stealing her money like for no good reason alters amy's course right yes i do think the fact that like what's lola's character's name uh lola's character's name of course we all know it Greta. This is like the first person in her life who's ever just talked to her like a person. Like there's something to how unimpressed she is that like I think is the thing that like gives her a new lease on life of just like, oh, I can just sit on a couch with someone and eat junk food and not worry about how I come across. Yeah. And the fact that she's like that this girl immediately pegs Amy as a bitch.

And which, which, which, yeah. And liked it, which offends her and the reason for the spitting, but is also sort of like tantalizing. Yeah.

But I do think it's like, you know what, Amy, you're, you're really good at like faking everything in this meticulous way where you drew the diary. But you're actually not good at improv faking it. You're kind of bad at it. And so she's done.

She has to go to Desi. Neil Patrick Harris, I want to say this about his casting. Fincher said he wanted a Claire Quilty type. And he's like, what's a modern Claire Quilty type? He's watching the Tonys. And he's like, this guy. This guy is like,

Claire Quilty by the way of Sting is how he puts it. His line in the commentary is, anyone who can make me watch the Tonys is a good performer. Right, yes, right. Has to be a pretty compelling. Jesus, Fincher, come on.

It was a real Fincher. Support American Theater. Yeah. As you said, yeah, Alex Cross, not Alex Ross. No. Perry.

Alex Cross Perry. Should we make Alex Cross Perry a series in which Alex Ross Perry watches all the Alex Cross. Not Alex Ross. No. Perry. Alex Cross Perry. Should we make Alex Cross Perry a series in which Alex Ross Perry watches all the Alex Cross movies? No, I mean make it like a film series. Yeah, that'd be good. What were you going to say? Sorry. The thing I like about Tyler Perry is just like, if I knew

who David Fincher really was in his body of work, I probably would have said no. I actually wasn't that familiar with his movies. And my agent did know and probably knew that I would have said no. I would have been too intimidated. Like I actually wasn't that familiar with his movies. And my agent did know and probably knew that I would have said no. But instead, clearly the agent was just like, you really got to do this. Like you're really going to crush this.

And then he gets on set. And one thing that is probably really different from Fincher's directing style and Tyler Perry's directing style, I think Tyler Perry does half a take. I think they're setting up the next scene during the scene and like his first his first scene 30 takes and he's like what's going on like this is crazy is the camera broken the blood was draining from my face uh uh oh no this is it he sits down and affleck goes by the way minimum 30 takes and tyler's like what are you talking about and he's like yeah yeah no that's that's what it's gonna be he says

i realize fincher sees like no other person i've ever known his vision is so hyper when he's doing a take he sees everything on screen all at once he's like an alien and if nothing like unless everything lines up perfectly he's like again you know that's another thing by the way when you get to Tanner and Nick working together you're you got two directors Fincher's hiring

two people who have made their own films it's a good point even if their movies are different styles no no no you're totally right I would love to know

more just about like Affleck and Perry like chatting like while they're waiting for Fincher to say like what those conversations are like

okay so the film Medea's Tough Love no that's a straight to video that's a cartoon sorry Chatting like while they're waiting for Fincher to say like what those conversations are like. Okay. So the film Medea's tough love. No, that's a straight to video. That's a cartoon. Sorry. So it's Bua Medea Halloween is Perry's first film in the Medeaverse. Okay. Post Gone Girl.

Gone Girl. Do you think he maybe did like two or three takes on that one? Yeah. I learned something from David. Yeah. I don't know. It's just funny to think about him being like, I'm bring some fincherian technique into this one yeah um anyway all right uh final act of the movie the interview sila ward come on great casting is it sealer

is it sila right not sailor i think it's i honestly don't know yeah the most beautiful woman uh-huh but she has that kind of like... Scariness. Yeah, imperious like talk show beauty, right? Like she's perfectly cast. What was her ABC show called? Once and Again. Once and Again. Yep.

That was a great show. Yes. Back when TV could just like have a show where it's like, you're just going to cry every fucking week. Not much will happen and there'll be a big hug. It's a good old-fashioned weepy. Yeah. Yeah.

When ABC used to have their studios right on the West Side Highway before Trump built 15 bad buildings covering it up, the main thing you used to see in the West Side Highway, which was otherwise pretty barren on that stretch, was the ABC building and they always had the

entire side of the building was draped with whatever their new big show was. And I just remember a year of like, we lived downtown. I went to school in the Upper West Side and my dad would like drive us to school every morning and I would just see the giant Selah Ward face on the side of the ABC building. And yes, there is something

like kind of scary about her. Yeah. She's impressive. She has like an intense beauty. Just, you know, you believe it. She's fearsome. Like she could destroy him. Yes. I think the thing of cutting right to them in the car

and Nick with like a piece of shit grin on his face. Yeah. That we don't see the interview till later. But like even Tanner's like, all right, relax. You were good, but relax. You know, is clever. Yes.

Yeah. Just like lay low until it airs she's eating the creme brulees yes yes out of the little ramekins well and like

Desi is so happy when she shows up and she's clearly in this like rough state right and she's in a rough state but she's also doing

the performance of course like I don't know where to go she looks very different than the last time he saw her and he's just like finally state, but she's also doing the performance. Of course. Like, I don't know where to go. She looks very different than the last time he saw her. And he's just like, finally, I get her back. But also, I need to build her back into the version of Amy I fell in love with.

And he's doing so much good subtle reaction work in this scene when they're watching the interview. He's like pouring more wine. His disgust at like the way she is scarfing down. Right. The creme brulee yes and then she finishes his yeah and you can just see him going like okay i gotta get her on a diet you know like he mentions like the gym when she's walking yes and like she's he's so proud of his like perfect tone what is the bed yeah best sleep of your life i forget the brand is but it's something like you

know thirty thousand dollar bed probably or whatever and like his stupid fucking camera app and but it's just so revealing that's like he thinks of himself in his mind is like her one true love and he fucked it up or whatever right and she she's throwing him bait with the whole like his you know nick's idea of high culture is you know football or whatever and he's like you know like you know, football or whatever. And he's like, ha! You know, like, you know, hand down his pants. But he is, like, fully in love with the construction of her. Totally. Because when she shows up. Another fake version of her. In a raw state, he's

not like, oh, anything. Yeah, I mean, he's, he wants to imprison her in his weird fortress. Yeah, and rebuild her to the way she was when he met her. Um, and then the second he leaves, her just, like, faking the, you Yeah, and rebuild her to the way she was when he met her. And then the second he leaves, her just like faking the,

you know, like going to the camera and screaming. It's so scary. And the biting of his lip on the goodbyes with the tussled shirt. Yeah, like it's just... So he has blood

when he's walking out. You can see him. The scuffed up hair. Like just, she's, I love her just figuring out, like she knows her angles she knows where the cameras are like the the the days gone are really interesting from once you

start her angle like yes because it's like when you when we first meet her it's like it's it's closer in time it it's one day gone and then by the time she is back to looking, because I actually had forgotten that and I was like, how did she lose all that? I was like, how did she lose all that weight? And it's like,

it's been a month. You're a month in now. Yeah. Right, right, right. That's interesting. I hadn't thought about that. It's been a month from the interview,

basically, because I think it says like 29 days gone. It's not like she cuts her hair the next day or whatever. it's like, it's been an, she's gotten skinny again.

There's two weeks, basically, of like in captivity, rebuilding herself and planning. Then she has sex with him. And during the sex, she slashes his throat with a razor. Right. We call that sex. Well, first she also. What do you mean? I already said that.

The screaming, the violating herself with a champagne bottle. Right, yeah. Anything else? I mean. No, I had first. For some reason, the violating herself with a champagne bottle, anything else. For some reason, the screaming is actually what disturbs me the most. Like the way she just like bits him goodbye and then runs and does the fake screaming like that. The way she's doing the... That's so good.

The wrists. The wrist thing. I didn't hear that you said the violating. It's quite all right. I say a lot of bullshit. Sangani 63. This is relevant. Which I love.

I got really into in the pandemic. A good sipping liquor, he always said. Yes. But Fincher wanted to put it in the movie as a nod to his buddy,

Sodi, and said, you can pick the scene where you want it applied. Right. And Soderbergh said, I want it to be the thing she violates herself with.

I didn't realize that's what it was. It's not. It's a bottle of champagne. No, it's not a champagne. It's a wine or whatever. But Rosamund Pike was... Sorry, a champagne bottle

would be much worse to do that with. Yes, yes. Well, if you took the cork off, I suppose not. No, but you can't take the cork off. She takes the... She said, like, spraying a wall. It's very true.

Yes, of course. Yes, a bottle of champagne would not be workable. Fincher was going to do that, and Rosamund Pike was like, she would use wine. I'm sorry, I refuse. Right. I don't care what your body is. He was going to do the Sigani? Wait, now I got to see this bottle.

It's a kind of wild looking bottle. The scene where, it's one of the scenes where Kim Dickens and Fugit come to Affleck's house and he's drinking. It's when he throws the glass. Yes, that's right. It's sort of a tall, thin bottle. He's drinking Sigani then. So that's where they put it in the movie. But I just like this idea of like, yes,

it's kind of a colorful bottle with this clear liquid. And Fincher presenting this to Rosamund Pike on set and her going like, absolutely not. Good for her. I have to maintain the integrity of this character. But yeah, no, she kills him with,

you know, pretty crazy. Once again, this is called missionary position. I don't understand why you're making such a big deal out of this. Well, it's funny too because it's like I thought about like the cut to blacks

because they're so prominent early on and suddenly he does this sort of flashing effect during the And the music's going like like that. Like that's kind of crazy.

It feels the hallucinatory. Yeah. It's wild. He cuts it so crazy. There's so much blood. There's so much blood. There's so much blood. It's really great how much blood there is. I'd argue this is almost a point of no return for the character.

For her? Yeah. Oh. What do you mean? I don't know. You know, I've really been on her side the entire film. I've liked everything she's done. Or at least you've understood her perspective.

Yes. Yeah. And then when she, yeah. Joe Pera did a very funny Seth Meyers interview this week condemning, or rather condemning murder. He just did a bit of

wanting to very clearly establish his anti-murder stance. Joe Pera's special, which I don't know if you've watched. It's so funny. And he opens it with like a note that he writes and he says,

Hello, my name is Joe Parra. My favorite food is rolls, which is the funniest thing I've ever heard in my entire life. It's so good. I can't stop thinking about it. If you had him on the show, would the episode be nine hours long? Yes. The slowest episode. Right.

Yeah. I'd love to have him on the show. God. I mean, we could have him on. We could. What kind of movies does he like? I feel like there's certain movies he jokes about a lot Like nature documentaries

There's some weird movie reference point In the special I'm trying to remember now He does this bit What about like the straight story Something like that Or like a movie about people who talk kind of slow Here's a promise If we ever do Lynch

We'll ask him if he wants to do the strange story. Yes. We can't guarantee him. No. He might be like, oh, I've never seen that one.

But he's not going to say that fast. No, yeah, it's true. Sorry, I'm trying to rush this along. He does a bit in the special where he like chugs bottles of water crushing a beer. And it's not something

he calls a lot of attention to, but it's just like at one moment he starts doing it and then the audience starts cheering and he's like i'm gonna take this all the way down it's really funny he's always been very very one of the funniest men alive yeah um uh yeah so desi's dead and then there's just 20 minutes left of the movie and it's it's all suddenly very rapid like her returning swooning in his arms while he says, you bitch. Like, you fucking bitch.

Right. Right. He said, he... I mean, just the incredible theatrics of her walking up, looking like that. The swoon. Right. Right. Running to him, him saying, you bitch, and immediately, quote unquote, fainting into a Gone With The Wind pose. Yes. That she just knows, it's like,

she's worked this whole thing out. The public relations side of it. I mean, the scene that's so good in this, which you sort of mentioned, is the when after she's in the hospital, she's been treated. Yeah. And the FBI is there. And Kim Dickens is like, wait, hold up, hold up, hold up. Tries to actually interrogate her. None of this is fitting.

And basically everyone tells Kim Dickens to shut up, and she's just like, god damn it. Like, you can just... Because everyone else in the film is like, in that room, is like, are you kidding? Look how gripping this is. Yeah. Like, we want to follow this story,

and Kim Dickens is like, wait, so you went there first? Why did you buy the gun? And then, like, yeah. It's a story that would fall apart under a lot of scrutiny. Right. And, you know, Amy knows there won't need to be much scrutiny. I'm back. There's no crime.

And she's also doing the sort of, like, I'm so faint. I feel myself fading. Yeah, I can't really remember everything. And we skipped over, but, like, they finally do arrest Affleck shortly before this. They do. Yeah. They find the weapon. The weapon is enough for them to arrest.

He does the thing where he doesn't listen to Tyler Perry and he responds to the handwriting. Right. Yeah. You're not a handwriting expert. And then it's only after all that that she gets home with him. And he's like, what is going on? And she's like, you're doing great.

Like, what are you talking about? I fucking love it. I've never seen take off all your clothes. And he's like, I have one question. She's like, are you wearing a wire? Take off your clothes. So it's like this trust is not reestablished. No, no.

But it's so funny because she walks back in like we like that was real. What happened between us what you said to me through that interview yeah you're not feeling what I'm feeling like it does feel like she's like really great they play it both so funny turned on by the fact that like oh he's figured

it out and he's like throwing the ball back to me that she assumes that that's like love language from him rather than like him playing defensive and him just like being like right i'm just trying to survive over here yes yes i know i was reaching out to you he was he knows what he's doing he says i i do i have to convince america maybe i only need to convince one person um and uh right 100 but right and she's like so come wash the blood off with me in the shower and maybe I'll take a look at that fucking hammer you got.

Yes. I sort of forgot about. And he is just like, no, I don't like you. I'm mad at you. Right. You've gone. I'm terrified.

Also, you murdered the fucking next guy you saw. So I'm not exactly. You're still covered in his blood. You have blood on your boobs that actually is unrealistic no I'm sorry what were you saying surely at the hospital she might have gotten cleaned up right

it is weird that they're like anyway off home with you if you want to take a shower I mean it's very pivotal to yes the visuals of their marriage at this point yes and she's just like, you don't understand. You did great.

I want that Nick permanently from now on. He's like, I'm leaving. And then she impregnates herself. I buy that she doesn't wash the blood off when she's at the hospital or the police station or any of that shit because she's like, well, the press will still be there

when we go home. Right. I need one more round of photos with covered in blood. They probably offered and she had some reason why she didn't want to do it yet. You know? And then just as pivotal as his last time. Yeah. Finally, he gets a break.

He goes to see Tanner and Tanner is like, you two are the most fucked up white people I've ever met. Yes. It's so incredible. Yeah. You know, where she's like come on you know goes like can we get her on tape. He's like no he made me get in the shower like he's just laughing. And line of dialogue Kim Dickens is there and she's like I agree

with you guys by the way this has been crazy you know. A line of dialogue that hits pretty hard coming from Tyler Perry a man who's directed some bug nut stories. Like some just fucking lurid as shit pulpy tales with insane plot twists. His films understand human behavior

on a very natural level. That's what I'm saying. Well, not natural, but he does. He has the clearest eye on the human condition. I should check in. I haven't seen a Perry film

in years. He's made so few. He mostly went to TV. That sounded like a joke. Recently? You're right. He doesn't really make movies anymore. He's made like two movies

in the last five years as opposed to making five movies every year for 15 years. That man has maybe directed 25 films over? I can count, but you're going to have to talk. But the final scenes of this movie. Okay, you go ahead. So, yeah, she gets pregnant. He actually, you know, is physical with her.

Yes. When she reveals this, he slams her against the wall. Yeah, but that is the sort of, but she's also, it is also the moment where she's sort of turned on by it. Like, it is this moment of violence, and it is him actually enacting sort of what she had imagined. But that is what leads into the I'm the cunt you married.

Sorry, I just had to say cunt on mic. We hadn't said cunt on mic yet and it just felt necessary. No, but in the context of this. I think it's 24. Jordan Hoffman? Did you say Jordan Hoffman? Yes, it's the Jordan, Melvin, and Howard episode. Is that the one?

Yes. He tells a Jordan, Melvin, and Howard episode. Is that the one? Yes. He tells a story that involves someone yelling the word cunt over and over again. And he screamed it in retelling the story. And it was when we still recorded at Audioboom. And David's response was just, Jordan, we are in a workplace. There are people at desks. Remember we were at a workplace, Ben? Remember that? workplace i do remember yeah did you have to explain that to people like you would be hard at work and then two idiots would roll into the office your mother's time to do our podcast i

don't remember exactly anyone bringing up the fact that jordan was screaming i guess the room was soundproof yes right, right. But I do remember very often when we would go on, you know, three hours of recording, people would be like, what is this show and why did it take that long?

And I didn't usually have a good answer. Because the answer would be they talked about a movie. Right. And then they would be like, what movie? And I'd be like, married to the mob and then there'd be like what movie and I'd be like married to the mob and they'd be like what's that good times it's so weird that this show

is quite popular and yet also most of my friends are like well I don't understand what you're talking about when I've ever tried to listen to it I mean Bob has like I'm always like oh you're going to listen to it. No. I mean, Bob has like, I am always like, oh, are you going to listen to my episode? He's like, that's too long. Yeah. Too long.

I like when I have to tell people what I do for a living, my least favorite conversation. And they're like, oh, that's interesting. You're talking about a movie? And how long's the show? And I just go, it's long. And they go, so how long? Like an hour? And I'm like, we are so...

Keep going up. Ben, what time are we at now? We're at two hours and 43 minutes. Wow. This was another thing that people were so angry that the Zodiac episode was, quote, only two and a half hours. Yes.

What fucking golden handcuffs we have given ourselves. We're going to work this down to a 90-minute i promise 2024 really truly whenever i can finally finalize the like soundproofing this space we're gonna hang that goddamn clock we haven't countdown clock we really are i'm very it's gonna be i think a big change and it's gonna go so it's gonna get longer my prediction show is gonna get longer when the clock's up yeah so at the end of the movie he's cradling her head he's looking at her it's the same shot from the beginning and he says what have we done to each other essentially uh is well you have the interview mr paul comes to their home gives him the robot cat and he makes the choice to announce the because you have the scene

in the airport with Tyler Perry with Kim Dickens with Margot where they're all like you can't fucking go through with this you lunatic and he's like

what about the kid what about the kid Margot has that scene in the kitchen where she's like crying yeah well there's a flashback it's sort of like a flashback it's like a little bit

of a flashback I think where he's like tells her and he's like no I have to raise this kid because he's. It's sort of like a flashback. It's like a little bit of a flashback, I think, where he's like, tells her and he's like, no, I have to raise this kid. Because he's basically, he's sort of like, his almost justification

is like, well, I'm less fucked up than her. Like, you know. Right, right. It's dooming this kid

to a worse life if I'm not there. Right. But it's all, yeah, I mean, it's just. But you are like,

is there any, in a movie with so many twists and moves, you're like, is there some way he games his way out of this? You go to the interview and it's his move and there's that moment where they are like, is there any, in a movie with so many twists and moves, you're like, is there some way he games his way out of this? You go to the interview and it's his move. And there's that moment where they're like, we're so happy together. And Rosamund Pike looks at him and like, and, and what else? And he makes the decision of like, I'm announcing on TV that we're having a baby, which is not just choosing to remain in that kid's life. It is choosing to publicly perpetuate the fantasy, the narrative of their...

Right. Everyone's now like in love with them as a couple because it's like, he's innocent. He's fully re-upping. She was missing. They're reunited.

Now they're having a baby. He's reinvesting in the charade, even if it's a new charade now. And what is marriage if not reinvesting in the charade, even if it's a new charade now. And what is marriage if not reinvesting in charades, according to David Fincher? Which I do think is very funny. Like, truly,

what have we done to each other? And Fincher's like, roll the credits, get the fuck out of my theater. Yeah. Goodbye. What do you think of that? And America's like,

we like it. Yes. And everyone's like, rom-com. Right. Here's the thing I think we should bring up. Yes. This could be us, but you play it.

Here's the thing I think we should bring up, because weirdly, it's been an oversight in our episodes, but every movie from the game on of Fincher's is produced by his wife, Sean Chafin,

who is not a very public figure, like does not do a lot of interviews. She gets a lot of credit as the kind of like, you know, if the Coens kind of had this relationship, you know, where it's sort of like, yeah, they kind of just complete each other's sentences. Nolan and Emma Thomas, but Emma Thomas is much more out there.

Snyder. Snyder and his wife. Early career carpenter with Debra Hill, you know, like a lot of people we've covered where it's a key part

of like, because I think someone I read to point out, it's interesting that not only does Fincher not have a single writing credit

on any of his films, which makes him unique from any other director we've covered, but he also doesn't have a producer credit on any of his films, which most directors

who get to this level. Well, it's extra money. It's extra money and it's control and all of that. And it does feel like, as you said, a little bit of a like

Coen thing where it's like, oh no, they're very collaborative on this. Like there's a symbiotic nature to the way the two of them build the movie.

She's the other side of a one headed or two headed one person, you know, like. I just find it very funny with this being his marriage movie where he's like making it like and here's my take on marriage and he has what seems to be from the outside

an incredibly healthy, long-lasting, two-decade plus. Yeah, certainly. Creative and business relationship with his wife. Can I say the same thing? Please. Like, it goes without saying that this is an unhealthy relationship. In Gone Girl.

In Gone Girl. But there's, there is this weird meeting in the middle sort of philosophy behind it about marriage where it's like, you flip it and they're not two insane people and not two pieces of shit. And it's like,

oh, these are two people meeting in the middle. Yes. And so there's this weird sort of like... Marriage is compromise. Yeah, marriage is compromise. Which I think is the bigger

point of this movie, not like marriage is a sham. It's not quite as anti-marriage as you would think it is. It's more just like this heightened version of the compromise conversation yes and that's i think why people why it has a sort of like weird like

oh i you know a lot of people are like i see gone girl is a rom-com like and i think that's sort of certain people say it's their comfort food movie i mean i think it is a movie but like i think that's why you know the rom-com thing that's why it happens because it is a comedy movie. But like, I think that's why, you know, the rom-com thing, that's why it happens. Because it is two people who are meeting in the middle, which is like sort of what a lot of rom-coms are about. Yes. Yeah. And I do think like that movie couldn't be made. This movie could not be made by someone who does not have a healthy marriage built on reasonable compromise. Like, there's a soberness

to what you're saying that I think is the movie's take on it, heightened to extreme circumstances that are unrealistic. With two psychos. Right. One more psycho than the other, and one just like a piece,

one psycho, one piece of shit. They're both, they're both pretty wacky. They're both flawed people. I'm just gonna say that I'm gonna but she has killed more people than him

one yes one to zero is still and she's a little bit more it's a significant one's a rounding error she's a little more maniacal everyone gets one

she's he's just a bumbling sort of fool and he's she's maniacal I want to point out something Eric Messerschmidt who has now become

Fincher's cinematographer this film's shot by Cronenweth, I believe, is the gaffer on this movie. He's in charge of lighting. And Messerschmidt, you know, he shoots Mindhunter, Mank, and The Killer.

He also is now the DP on Michael Mann's Ferrari. And when I interviewed Michael Mann, which I just did, I asked him about Messerschmidt, and he was like, you know why I just did, I asked him about Mr. Schmidt. And he was like, you know, I like that guy because he was a gaffer. And to me, cinematography is all lighting and no one understands lighting anymore. And then he started talking about like the kinds of lights he used on heat and I had an orgasm or whatever. You know, he was like talking about lights and I was like, I don't know what you're talking about, but I'm like going into a dream state.

But I like that idea of Fincher, which I think is common for him. Yeah. Promoting from within. Yes. Like he usually. Especially with DPs. Yeah. Did you interview a man in person?

I sure did. Where did he go? The Mandarin Oriental, of course. I mean, I didn't pick it. That's a classic interview. Yeah, I know. I know. Did you wear a black hat?

No. Did you? Don't know that I own a black hat. David, did you order a mojito? Like one in the afternoon at the Mandarin. You just order it and then like don't say anything. Yeah. You're like, will you say it?

Will you say it? I got mint all over my... No, I ordered a green tea and Michael Mann went... Oh, God. You're so close to mojito in LA. It's true. It's green. And Michael Mann got chicken and corn

and had a long conversation with the waiter over like, what is this? And the waiter was like, it's polenta, but also corn. And man was like, okay. And he ate it. It looked pretty good. Mandarin Oriental, for people who don't know,

is a very luxury hotel and overlooks Central Park. It's this very gorgeous vista. More like the Michael Mandarin Oriental. for people who don't know, is a very luxury hotel and overlooks Central Park. It's this very gorgeous vista. More like the Michael Mandarin Oriental. That's a good point. And I should have said that to him. I literally just said that two seconds ago and everyone ignored me. Okay, credit to Esther.

Well, we're talking about Michael Mann, so women should not be heard. Sorry. Well, I didn't say Michael Mann. I said Mandarin Oriental. Oh, you didn't hit it hard enough. I didn't hit it hard enough and everyone ignored me. No, I would never ignore you, Esther. But wait, oh yeah, Messerschmitt, right.

I just like, you know, yeah, right. He's getting his work done on Gone Girl, yeah. No, it remains bizarre to me for how big of a hit this movie was and how much it was critically well-regarded that it gets the one Oscar nomination and nothing else. The screenplay is the one that is galling. But even aside from the supporting noms that we all argued, it should have

gotten that I kind of get being overlooked. It's weird that it doesn't get cinematography or editing or score. I'd expect at least one of those. Well, there was a lot of really good movies that needed attention that year. Birdman, you know, American Sniper, The Imitation Game, least one of those. Well, there was a lot of really good movies that needed attention that year. Birdman. You know, American Sniper, The Imitation

Game, The Theory of Everything. This is cinema! I give the editing award to Birdman. That movie has no cuts in it. That movie is one honest take. That didn't get a... It didn't? Oh, thank fucking God. The editing went to Whiplash.

Okay, that's a good one. Those noms are American Sniper or whatever. You know, it's probably, you know, it's a, well, constructed war movie. This is the year that... Boyhood. Budapest should have won. Budapest, and then The Imitation Game,

which is so well edited. Yeah. Imitation Game and A Theory of Everything being in the same year is offensive. It's the same. I will tolerate one Miramaxian project for Oscar year, not two. Right, because one of those is like a sneaky focus

or a searchlight or something. They both feel like they should be Weinsteins. I think Theory is focus. Yes, Harvey was having like, you know, congressional hearings about how good Alan Turing was or whatever bullshit he would pull, right? Honor the man. Yeah, right, that's Turing. That's Imit bullshit he would pull, right? Honor the man. Right, that's Turing. That's

Imitation Game. Honor the man. The Oscar will go to his grave. It's such a weird Oscar year. Foxcatcher doesn't get the best picture nom, but does get the best director nom. There's stuff like that where you're like, that was made for the Oscars and they didn't even totally bite. Stuff like American Sniper

kind of comes out of nowhere and then they kind of have to pay attention to it. And Gone Girl, like you said, is a big tittied hit. Well received. Thank you. And like much of Venture, people are like, yeah, slick, fun exercise. Can we call it a big hog tit?

On this one, we can. But also, he's coming off like an Oscar heater. like he is he is but dragon tattoo kind of got the same treatment it got more noms it got far more it got more noms but it's the same thing of like yeah well at the end of the day though you're just a stylist aren't you anyway we're gonna hand it to something really subtle like birdman it's too fun yes and like two too trashy too trashy yeah again bird and both of those are like based on you know sort of novels that are sort of dismissed as pulp yes that which is how he got big budgets to make them

yeah whereas birdman was based on what if there was a birdman yeah birdman should i watch birdman again no no um yeah this movie more More like what? I liked Birdman. I remember you liked it. You know, we filed out of Magno possibly together. Maybe not. No, I didn't know because I saw it at Lincoln Square Embassy during a New York Film Festival. I saw it at Magno. The best place to see a movie.

The terrible place to see a movie. This movie is a fat hogged hit. Yep. Feels like Finch is on a roll. You're like, great. He's fucking figured out his space within the studio system keep making these Finchie he's like

and then on the horizon of Mindhunter yes he works with Netflix he does you know but on the horizon there's a whisper Hank but that's also Netflix saying like what do you want to make what's the thing that no one else will let you make?

When he is in talks to do World War Z 2. What else will they not let you make? Mank. They let him be Mank in a way that no one had up until that point. Mank. When he's in talks to do. Ben, do you want to say Mank? Mank.

Thank you. When he's in talks to do World War Z, through pretty shortly after this, and the response from most people is, why the fuck would Fincher do a World War Z sequel? The answer was, he can't get shit made anymore. They won't make his Fincher movies. He needs to find a thing that's already in the pipeline

that's closer to what he wants. And the system he had had of, pick up a good best-selling book with adult themes and use that as your way to Trojan horse in. It's like, you got to find a $200 million franchise movie

and not get in the green light. You motherfucker. You motherfucker. Or maybe a movie about like a Birdman or something. Let's do the box office game. October 4th, October 3rd, 2014.

You said it's a bad weekend. No, it's just a weird weekend. Oh, okay. Gone Girls opening number one. Two. $37.5 million. Healthy. Making $167 domestic,

$367 worldwide. I mean, that's a big fucking multiplier, too. Mm-hmm. Hot Yom Kippur weekend, too. Yeah, it's the kind of multiplier you look down at twice in the shower. Yeah. Oh!

Number two. Length and gir in the shower. Number two. Length and girth. Exactly. Number two also opening this week. Okay. Made $37.1 million. Wow. Two movies opening to the same amount of money, essentially.

So it had to be counter-programming. Sort of. It's a horror film. It's in the horror space. Is it a sequel? No. No, it's an original horror film. Well, let's not go crazy.

This character had appeared an original horror film. Well, let's not go crazy. This character had appeared in another horror film. And now, she's getting her own runway. So this is the first Annabelle? Annabelle is here. She's sitting

her way to the top of the box off the stretch. You won't believe the places this doll will be inexplicably found over the course of an hour and a half. This character's now appeared in four movies. Now Annabelle's

opening to the same amount of money, by the way, makes 84 domestic. To give you a sense of its lack of legs. Gone Girl's double. Her legs, very stubble. She's got tiny little legs. She doesn't move. This is my point. I find it fascinating that Annabelle's such a horror icon and most people still don't realize the doll never comes to life. She's not a Chucky.

She never Chucky's. The thing is always someone walks into a room and goes like, ah! And she's sitting on a chair but what does she do they have rung three movies out of that scare my friend what is how'd she get in the bathtub then like shit will go wrong other shit happens bad shit happens she never moves she never talks she literally just pops up sitting in different places And then like someone dies But like Annabelle has no physical agency Well, she's got box office agency, my friend Ding, ding, ding Is she a big ass hit?

Yes Number three, obviously she's in The Conjuring I'm testing out some alternatives I like big ass hits It's just so funny that The Conjuring is like Here's a movie about the people Who actually investigated the Amityville Hard some alternatives. I like Big Ass Hit. It's just so funny that The Conjuring is like, here's a movie about the people who actually investigated

the Amityville heart. And you're like, oh, is it about them going to Amityville? No. It's about them going to a different haunted house. Oh, okay.

And Annabelle's part of that? No. That's another thing that happens in the movie, briefly. Annabelle's like, kind of the cold open. And you're like,

oh, so is this movie a mess? No, it's tightly wound it's beautifully constructed every performance is great kind of like the best modern the decade studio horror no Annabelle's like the cold open like that doesn't really go anywhere and it's this incredibly creepy looking doll right in

real life it was a fucking raggedy and raggedy and and it's literally in a glass box like don't go near that fucking thing raggedy and all and they're like that dog's got bad vibes truly and then in and we i believe we talk about this on an episode long ago but yes it's so funny that they're like should we just use a raggedy and all no it's like a melted candle like what are you? Anyway, number three at the box office. Griffin, you watched it recently. It's a franchise starter.

It's a franchise starter. Is it The Equalizer? The Equalizer! Ding, ding, ding. In its second week. My man. Pretty fun movie. It rules.

Antoine Fuqua's The Equalizer. Yes, I love those films. I'm all in. I'm equal pilled. Well, my big thing right now is, as I believe I've said online, The Equalizer 1 made $101 million domestically. Equalizer 2 made $102 million

domestically. Equalizer 3 is at 91. I needed to get to 103. They need to do badly. A re-release with bonus material. They need something to juice it up. Denzel will give you a hug and a soda. I don't care. Get people in. They also, all three

opened within one million of each other. Everything looked good. I mean, and it's done fine, but I just need it to get to 103. I need it. You haven't seen it yet, have you? I have not seen three. I've seen one and two.

Well, you know what? It looks like you're the fucking trouble. I kind of am. March your ass out to a theater. And buy a row. Yes. Buy the whole screening. Number four.

Have you seen The Equalizer, Esther? I've never seen The Equalizer. They're so good, Esther. It's quite fun. He equalizes people. The first half hour of the movie is him trying to equalize one of his co-workers by helping him lose weight. My parents love the Equalizer TV show. Well, that's true.

Starring Queen Latifah. Oh, the new one. Yeah. There's also the old one. No, but they love the new one. I'm waiting for them to team up. Number four at the box office. Animated film.

And Robin McCall. A good animated film. It's a good animated film. In the year 2014. It's a good animated film. In the year 2014. It made 50 domestic. A mild hit. It's not Kubo. It is a Leica.

Is it box trolls? The box trolls. Charming movie. Kind of scary. There's the guy who eats the cheese and his face sort of puffs up. Kind of crazy. Ben's the guy who eats the cheese and his face sort of puffs up. Kind of crazy. Yeah, well, fucking Ben Kingsley

in one of the all-time great voice performances in any animated film. Is that Cheese Guy? Yes. He's the evil Cheese Guy. It's good. But I remember liking it. Number five at the box office.

A franchise starter. YA. Why a franchise starter. YA. YA franchise starter. What genre? And you said YA, but YA masked up with... Sci-fi. YA sci-fi.

It's not Divergent. No. It's the first Maze Runner. The Maze Runner. They ran that maze. I'll never get out of the maze. Oh, in fact, there's a way out.

The Scorch trials await. Yes. And then... The death cure. Your cure will be given to you yes The Maze Runner

a very healthy hit yeah 102 at the box office not a bad movie Wes Ball the decent director of action yeah

I think Scorch is the best but I think the first two are good and the third's a little disappointing because you were kind of like hell yeah you know this is fun also the Scorch the Scorch is the best one

obviously when they Scorch the hell out of them. He did the new Planet of the Apes. Which we will see next year, right? Yeah. Yeah. Next,

number six, Left Behind, the Nicolas Cage faith-based movie. That movie is bad, actually. Wait, what?

Yes. Oh, no. It is not good. It's better than the fucking Kirk Cameron one, but it is not good. Number seven, This fucking Kirk Cameron one but it is not good number seven this is where I leave you I mean isn't it a lot of

Nick Cage in like a cockpit going like what's going on? people are disappearing like you know it's a lot of that am I wrong in thinking that Chad Michael Murray is his co-pilot that sounds this is where I leave you is that the one that's the one where no one's Jewish that's the one that I bring up so often on this podcast.

It's a Jewish family sitting. I know. It's James Fonda, Jason Bateman, Tina Fey, Adam Driver are the kids. It was directed by Sean Levy though. Yes.

So, you know, we're there. Our people are there. Absolutely. Yeah. Number eight, we all were waiting for it.

And finally we got it. The most anticipated sequel of 2014 Dolphin Tale 2 Number nine of the box office A pretty enjoyable film from a Sort of forgotten franchise Guardians of the Galaxy Wow that was August right

Wow Good movie David we were working together when Guardians came out Because Courtney would only let you go see it we were so mad that I was the only person allowed to see it

I remember very well in terms of the screening or in terms of letting you leave work I got invited and Esther didn't and Esther was

talking about it and they said only one person from the Atlantic Wire could come that's fucking rude there was often a lot of you should have gone girl

a lot of look I love you, Courtney, if you're listening. Never, never be mad at me. Number 10 at the box office. No Good Deed? Oh, that's the Gosling is Robert Durst?

Oh, no, that's Idris Elba. What's Gosling is Robert Durst? That's called All Good Things. It's the opposite. That movie's all about good things. Yeah, No Good Deed is Idris and Taraji, and he's the bad, he's the ex-husband from hell or something. But that was a kind of quietly fucking robust hit.

Yeah, it made 52. Yeah. It did okay. Is he her husband, or is he just like the guy who broke out of jail from hell? I think he's the ex from hell. Yeah, it's the parolee, you know, whatever. I should watch it. Sam Miller directed it.

He's a Luther guy. Okay. Yeah, he does TV. Okay. Luther. Luther. Luther. Luther.

Gone Girl. Esther, any final thoughts? Great movie. Five stars. Just, even I was guilty of it. When I saw it, I was like, this rocks. Yeah. But I probably like, you know,

took a minute for me to be like, I should stop by having any caveats about it as like trashy or fun or something. Like this is one of the great films of the year. I was all in. I was like. I was all in. I was so excited.

Yeah. Top tier entertainment. Such a weird year. Yeah. Do you like it? I love it. It's one of my favorites. so excited. Yeah. Top tier entertainment. Such a weird year. Yeah. Do you like it? I love it. It's one of my favorites. Love it.

Yeah? Pro? Big time. You haven't said much in this episode. You got any hot takes? Yeah, I'm sorry, Ben. That's okay. I think this is a great

beach house movie. Right? You rent a beach house. Fucking finance. They always got kind of like a couple of random. There was something we needed to get out of it. Anytime you throw the ball down. rent a beach house they always got kind of like a couple of random I just knew there was something we needed

to get out of here anytime you throw the ball down there's a couple of random DVDs and this feels like a quintessential so true

you're excited that they have this one in their collection of course they do because everyone likes Gone Girl let's watch it

and you're like and this is the exact mood I'm in right now yeah it's like oh shit it's a rainy day

can't go to the beach. What should I do? Ben's so smart. But next week is the even better Beach House movie everyone can agree on. Mank. Mank. Yeah. Get to the Beach House. Everyone's like, what? Should we watch it? I'm like, don't worry, guys. And I pulled Mank out. I know there's no physical copy of Mank available. Yeah.

Or I'm scrolling on Netflix and I'm like, hang on. Who's that over there? Is that? Who do I spy with my little eye? And then somebody in the corner goes, ah, nerds. Do I smell alcohol and regret? When you select Mank on Netflix. It should go Mank.

No, before the movie plays. It should go nerds. It should go nerds. No, before the movie plays, you should be like pushing the button in no effect. And then you should just hear Gary Oldman go like, just give me a second. I just gotta finish up this drink. Absolutely.

It should take 45 minutes for me to start playing. Yeah, I think we just did. All these fucking episodes of three hours thank you for being here i almost i almost felt the need to apologize for the zodiac episode you did you fucking i was like guys i'm really sorry i'm ready like a maniac three hours you did apologize i know what's the matter with me you should not have done okay i have to say this office just makes you feel crazy yes it, it does. The lack of windows. I feel insane.

Yes, it does. It's that I quit Twitter. Yeah. It's that I quit Twitter. Oh, so now you're on the Reddit more? I think it's making me look at other apps more. And so now, so maybe I got to quit Reddit. Maybe it's just, you know, I keep quitting.

My friend. Until I'm like all in on like, you know, playing one of those games where you got to rescue the king from the burning house it's right there it's the key to a balanced brain I fucking failed to get Long John from the Treasure Planet event it's annoying it'll probably be a year before he comes around again in a diamond box

it sucks next week Mank, Esther thank you Esther Mank you thank you very much Esther you would have been great on Mank but our guest thank you. Esther, Mank you. Mank you very much for coming on the show. You would have been great on Mank, but our guest for that one is Sean Fantasy. Yes. America's number one Mank defender.

Absolutely. I am also a Mank defender. We don't know the truth. Sounds like you maybe should have taken my seat on the episode. You're not? You're mid on Mank. Yeah. You're not a hater, but you're pretty mid on Mank. I'm pretty mid on Mank.

Yeah. Mank. Yeah, I was trying to like... Mid on Mank. Pro seeing Mank. Yeah. You're not a hater, but you're pretty mid on Mank. I'm pretty mid on Mank. Yeah. Mank. Yeah, I was trying to like... Mid on Mank. Pro saying Mank. I love saying Mank. Saying Mank is one of the best things on the planet. But tune in for that next week. Esther, anything you want to plug? I'll have a book coming out.

I have a book that's available. It's called Beyond the Best Dressed. You can get it at the Academy Museum if you're so inclined or from anywhere else, book that's available. It's called Beyond the Best Dressed. You can get it at the Academy Museum if you're so inclined or from anywhere else. But that's pretty cool. Was your main qualification in being asked to be part of the Congratulations New York Fashion Week runway show? Right. Which was a true honor.

And genuinely. And I will have another book coming out next year on rom-com. Hell yeah. But that won't be coming. You're going to, honestly, it got pushed. So you guys are going to have to have me back on. You're going to have to have me back on. Uh-oh.

Okay. Uh-oh. Too bad. Okay. Bye. Bye. Thank you all for listening. Well, we should.

What? What, Ben? Very quickly at the end here. Just, I'll say the link to get esther's book will be in the description thank you we also though should mention that we are going to in fact release a mind hunter episode oh it's happening it is indeed happening i just got confirmation this is news to me news to me as well mar, party. Okay, so should we just say this? Dave and I really didn't want to do this episode. No!

We just, I think you all know it. We don't like covering TV. It's a pain in the ass. I love Mindhunter. Yes. I'm a fan of that. Right.

But covering TV within our format is incredibly annoying and the work just like multiplies exponentially and then it's hard to cover within an episode and people get even angrier than usual about us not mentioning certain things,

which is just impossible with the volume of TV. And with Mindhunter, it's like two full seasons. Most of the TV we've ever done has been one season or a limited series. This is two full seasons. It's a lot of episodes and he didn't direct all of them. And we were just fucking feeling very frustrated figuring out any reasonable way to cover it. I also was deep in watching 8 million lawyer movies for a big picture draft episode. And I did not want to take on also trying to get through two seasons of Mindhunter. So Marie is going to do the episode. Yes. Marie is going to do the episode.

Yes. So, uh, all I can really share as far as details is that, um, we will be putting out at least one, if not one of some, you know, many more,

right? Again, I'm trying to be somewhat vague here, but expect on our Patreon November 16th, we will, uh, have a mind hunter episode featuring Marie, myself, potentially someth. We will have a Mindhunter episode featuring Marie, myself,

potentially some guests. Okay. This is again, sort of a thing. News to us. Yeah. This is a thing that all sort of just came together. It's going to publish off cycle. Like literally it's just going to publish. You get an extra value this month. You'll get it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It'll come out on a Thursday

sort of five days after our Empty Man episode. That's the thing. David and I didn't want to do it. We wanted to do Empty Man instead since that's prior getting cashed a little bit of the Fincher check. And Marie got angry at the notion of us skipping Mindhunter as I think most of our listeners would have

gotten if we didn't do it. So we said, if you want to do it by all means, we give you the space to make an episode or perhaps even more. But that's a good announcement. Good. Good. Okay.

All right. Now do your thing. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty, host of the upcoming Mindhunter episode

for our social media and helping to produce the show. Thank you to Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for our artwork, Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song, AJ McKee and Alex Barron for

our editing, JJ Birch for our research. I'm glad he mentioned that Ben Affleck shows Hogg in the movie. I would have missed it if he hadn't put it in the dossier. Tune in next week for Mank with Sean Fennessey. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our

Patreon, Blank Check Special Features, where you can hear the aforementioned Empty Man and Mind Hunter episodes coming up. And as always, Gone Girl's a fat hog tit. Could I get one more time?

Because it sounded like you said fat hog tit. Great. Okay. I'll give you one more if you keep in gone girl is a fat hogged hit great perfect