Blank Check with Griffin & David - Open Range with Chris Ryan

Episode Date: August 4, 2024

Free-grazers and CR-heads - this is your week. The icon, the legend, the Ringer’s own Chris Ryan joins us to talk about Kevin Costner’s understated 2003 western OPEN RANGE. We’re finally doing a deep-dive on the Taylor Sheridan empire (aka Chris tells us what Mayor of Kingstown is actually about) as we set up the later part of Costner’s career in the run-up to Horizon. We spend a good amount of time lauding the consistent greatness of Robert Duvall and Annette Bening. You can practically hear the relief in our voices when we talk about how this movie is actually quite good! It may or may not be racist against the Irish, but - hey. How great is that chocolate scene?!  Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! 

["Blank Jack with Griffin and David"] A man's trust is a valuable thing, Button. You don't want to lose it for a podcast. Okay. We don't want to lose it for a handful of cards. That line comes very early in the film. Yes. And it to me feels like Costner stating his intent of like, this is where this movie is operating for the next two hours and 15 minutes.

Trust? Everything is totemic. Everything is like the grandest statement possible about what defines a man. Yeah. Right? Every action, every line, every shot, it's like this is a movie about moral fiber. Yeah? Yeah.

This is about where you stand. Yeah. And then five minutes later, you're like, oh, that was a throwaway line that Robert DeVaul delivered as if it was the most important line in the movie. Five, ten minutes later Costner kicks Diego Luna off horse. Yeah, Diggle is like what's going on? He's like the fucking card thing He's still mad about it. I told you I apologized everything matters

Yeah, no, you're right I just I got to that line and I was like this isn't the best line in the movie But it feels like the quote I have to do, because it just stands out so strongly and early. Really defending your line choice here. They're the longer ones. No, no, no, no, no. You don't want to hear a longer one? It is a lot of monologues. This is a, yeah.

This has got some monologues, some meaty monologues. Kevin Costner loves to give a speech to a woman. He does. You know what I mean? Just be like, you stand there for a second. I'm about to pop off. Yeah. I'm gonna uncore.

I'm gonna tell you how it is. It would be cool if it was just like Kevin Costner live at Red Rocks and it's just women in the audience. He's just talking. He just like locks in with Jennifer Garter. He's just like, you're getting the next five minutes. What I want, I want Kevin Costner to do a Kevin Smith style tour? I want him to do evening harder just him mother fucking Taylor on the rise in that way he could

He could and it's like right I want him to like talk shit about his past projects and the coward executives who got in the way of his vision, right? I also want him to just plant his feet look at a woman in the second row and explain to her what a man is He's usually right. I'm not this is the thing. Like I'm usually like yeah, you're right That's what a man should be like. Okay, Kev. I think Chris you're a little older than David and I okay I think for our generation in particular David and even more so'd argue, almost doubling for every generation below us, there is this kind of attitude I see from younger people that is like, he's a problem, right?

Is Costner a problem? And their evidence is just like, he's got the vibes of someone who's a problem. The things he represents in his basic essence seem to be weaponized by the worst people in the world. Sure, you mean this kind of heartland dad, you know, thing. Man our man. Right.

You got a looker. And this, all this sort of stuff. And he's not. I mean, we got into this a lot in the postman episode of like his odd politics. That often are defined by this sort of Western value of like, you need one good man to stand up. Right. One good swing vote.

Right. And that man is Tom Daschle Yeah, that's the thing. He likes like mayor Pete. I keep bringing this up. Yes This is the thing. He's so weird and then you say something like he's kind of middle of the road Of course you say something like Costner likes to stand and look at a woman and tell her a bunch of stuff And you're just like oh boy, and then you watch it and you're like, this is the most compelling shit I've ever seen in my life. He knows what he's good at. Yeah, there was when on draft day Chris I remember talking to the screenwriters a bunch About how they had to rewrite the script when he came on because it was they wrote it with the intention of it being an afleck

movie oh Wow, they were like that's her idea is it's like he's in his 40s. Casey. Imagine if it's Casey. Hey, can I, I'll trade you a pick. I want Fante Mac the 101. You pancake eating motherfucker. That's, you may be too quiet.

May be too quiet. You pancake eating motherfucker. Alright, they wrote it with Affleck in mind. They wrote it with Affleck in mind. And then it went to Paramount. It ended up going to Lionsgate, but it went to Paramount. Right. And Paramount was like, you know who we'd make this movie with Kevin fucking Costner Like some exec had the brilliant idea of like, you know, who's good at monologuing

And you know, it was a little too old to be on the field, right? But we love him in sports movies and it was right after half fields McCoy's and they brought back and they were like we had To rewrite it a bunch when Costner came on Because you just have to run through your head the idea that everything Costner says feels like it's representing America. Like, he is like a living physical embodiment of an idea for good and bad. Chris, you like draft day? You draft day guy?

I'm a big draft day rewatcher, especially certain scenes. I want my pics back. Like, I'll just throw that on just to get in the right mind state for a pod. What was the matter with America not embracing that movie with open arms? Like, yes, of course, it's Destiny was airplane movie, cable movie.

Like, of course, in retrospect, you see it, and you're like, yeah, well, it's a movie, it's in offices, it's perfect for that. What the, you know, come on. Well, look, we'll get to later in the episode, the 21 years between Open Range and Horizon Part One in American Saga. Sure.

Or Horizon American Saga Part One. I think that's it. Yeah. Where he does a lot of stuff, but he doesn't direct anything in between. But this feels like the second Horizon, the second swing at what Draft Day was attempting to do ten years ago, which was Hatfields and McCoys weirdly overperformed, was like the highest rated broadcasting cable in years.

The two or three parts of that. He likes to mention that whenever anybody is just talking about Yellow City. And Hatfields and McCoys, by the way. I made the History Channel channel so fuck you. Because it's the kind of forgotten now. No it is, it was a big deal, you're right. He won the Emmy for it, is that right? I don't know.

I think he did. I think he won the Emmy. Yeah, he won an Emmy. It was a huge broadcast. Right. And all the studios like sat up and they were like, fuck is Costner back? Right. And this is coming off of a 10 year period where like Open Range is his most successful

movie I think if you average out critical consensus and box office consensus. Sure. Maybe had a few that were slightly better received. And also dads who were like, Open Range rules. Correct. Which is why you're, you know, which is why we're all here today. Was a film that had kind of lingered, right?

Yeah. But he had like in that period. No, it's yeah, you're right. It's like Rumor has it and you know, swing vote and stuff. Upside of anger stuff, upside of anger, stuff where it's like, yeah, no one really loved it. It's a shadow of a better thing he's made before. Right, right. Totally. Halffields and McCoys hits really big. Every studio sits up. Snyder's the first guy to poll him and be like, put him in.

Idea of America, he's Superman's dad. Right. And then these like three separate studios all have this strategy of like, we're going to relaunch Costner. And it was a three punch thing of in January, Jack Ryan's shadow recruit is coming out. He's the elder statesman mentor figure. In February, I think the movie was called Three Days to Kill. The Mcgee movie. Yes. Which was now Costner's got a gun, he's doing his take in. And then in March, or maybe it was the beginning of April, draft day comes out and it's Costner

Sports monologue dad. And those three movies in a row will prime the pump and Costner's back. And Jack Ryan bombed and the Lionsgate people were like, well, it's not really on his shoulders. Maybe Chris Primm was a little green, we're not worried. And Three Days to Kill came out and they were terrified. And they were like, we fucked up, the movie's gonna bomb. Right. I mean, three Costars in three months is maybe too much Costar. Yeah. But there was this strategy, and it was premature.

This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmography as directors who have massive success early on in their careers, such as Making a Best Picture Winner, that's one of the highest grossing films of its decade, if not of all time at that point. It was way up there. It was a big hit. Yeah. And I'll give this series a blank cheque to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. This is a mini series on the films of Kevin Costner, director. And today we are talking about the only normal sized film he ever made. Yeah. Not talking in terms of length, this is the only time he stepped up to the plate and wasn't going, I'm making an epic, I'm making a classic. Well, as I told Chris though, it is his shortest film.

It is. Yeah. Which is well. But it's also, it's him being like, I'm just gonna make one. Yeah, I'm gonna make a paperback Western for you guys. Yeah. Right? Yes. How better to describe it? Who's our guest? Podcasts with Wolves is the name of this miniseries. Sure. Today we're talking open range. Yeah. And our guest today for the first time ever,

long overdue. You were saying I think the most requested. The most demanded guest. Yes. I just didn't want to waste this time with this nonsense. But this is what you're here to talk about. The man, the legend, the saga, the American saga that is Kevin Costner. Chris Ryan. Thanks so much for having me, guys. You can refer to me as Blue Bonnet from now on. That's my given name. You'll open up to that.

You'll open up to that. You'll you'll you'll you'll admit it. You know, I was I was very excited to revisit this movie with you guys because I realized that this is something where I probably have watched the gunfight 300 times. Of course. And some other scenes. But like it's been a long time since I really crossed the river and then crossed the river and then crossed the river. Yeah. Then went into town, then crossed the river. This like in a long time where I did the full the full sit and watch sat and eat beans a couple of times, you know, then you have some cards. Right. Play some more cards.

Go visit the doctor. How you doing? Yep. Go ahead. Chris. Right right before we started recording we were talking about The day the day we're recording this is the day after he did an extended sit-down interview with Michael Fleming of Deadline Mm-hmm and it's one of the great interviewers hey Michael Fleming Wow in anticipation of horizon premiering at con Where Kassandra said some Hall of Fame shit. But the point he keeps coming back to is like, there's a way I tell stories, and I trust and respect my audience, and the studios don't fucking get it, and I don't care about them,

I care about the people. And this is a movie that's like not a difficult watch, but you are like, he demands that you fully lock into what he's doing. You have to adjust to his rhythms and his timing and his pacing. And even just what you said of like, you're going to cross the river seven times. Yeah. It's not going to be five. He landed on seven for a reason.

He shot nine. Yeah. He cut two out. He wants you to know it could have been longer. The tone of the deadline interview is this, is this kind of dad thing of like, I know better. Yeah. And the undertone of the deadline interview, right? That I feel like no one is like,

that he's not specifically saying, is like Taylor Sheridan writes every episode of Yellowstone. So when Costner's like, look, there were a lot of overruns. I get it, writing is hard. He's specifically saying, like this is fucking Taylor Sheridan, just like writing the whole goddamn thing is fucking me up and I'm sick of it.

And he keeps adding new shows to his plate. Right, and he keeps adding, he's gonna film every year as a television show. Like that's his idea. He's like Sufjan Stevens, but he's doing years. He's just like, 1982? What was going on then? Two. Two AD, Yellowstone, two.

Yeah, just two. It's just fucking grass. My favorite part of that whole run in that interview is Costner explaining modern streamer shenanigans with splitting six into five A and five B as seasons is like my mom trying to explain crypto where it's just like, you don't really know what we're doing here. Like, you could just say they didn't abide by the contract, but he'd be like, there was a six and a seven, but then it became a five B. And I actually, you know what, like, I think probably I'd be like, what is this five B shit? He knows speak truth to power. He knows that it's wrong. I don't think he can explain why I'm not I'm not mad about it, but I'm rewatching madman. I'm almost done

Wow, and you know madman did the 7a 7b right maybe the first major early in the AMC with Breaking Bad And they were like we can't say goodbye like let's spread it out 7a 7b and so halfway through your season 7 suddenly fucking sterling's got a mustache Yes, and it's like I was fuck. Sorry. I said my wife's Forky was like You know what the hell and I was like, you don't understand like six months past between these two episodes Shit, it's bullshit. Just do a new season. It sucks. No the whole the backbone of the thing is they're they're not They don't want to renegotiate your deal or whatever, right? It's not even that. It's not even renegotiating. Whatever you sign up for on the onset,

it's baked in every season you get X percentage pay raise. Even if it's 2% up. Right, right. They don't want to give you a raise. Right, and they go, this is one season, but we're going to show the two parts of the season, eight months apart, release them in two calendar years We get two bumps to and our quarter Campaigns we don't have to pay you shit extra Did you see in the interview? He's right. It's bullshit. Of course. He's right that he went to Cannes to see a Matrix movie

Yeah, yeah, can you imagine him just like vibing with the matrix reloaded? They're like putting on his hat and being like, well, that was interesting. Fun to meet the architect. That architect had a lot of good points. Maybe he should run for office. My only complaint, he should have stood up. Because cowards sit in chairs when they monologue. A man stands off plants as two feet. It would have been better if he was talking to a woman, telling her. Telling Trinity.

But Neo is a swing vote. He is. It's like, look, left or right, Neo. Do you think he walked out of Matrix Reloaded into the studios at Disney and said, get those guns out of here. Get those agents. Take off those dusters. We got something.

That would have been him going to see the matrix reloaded This movie comes out almost dead in between reloaded and revolution came out summer of 03 Yeah Just an interesting way to place where this movie is and how anomalous it is in the studio landscape in 2003 Chris, what's your costner relationship? What's your what's your you know, what's your sort of life with Costner like? It's uncomplicated, and it's super positive. He has been somebody who, you know how like when you're a kid, your friends' older siblings

or like the kids who are like in high school and you're in middle school or whatever, like they seem impossibly old to you. Like you're like, oh my God, when I'm as old as as Alex's brother, like I'm going to be like 50. That's how Costner always seemed to me and always seems like he always seems like he is like this thing that's going to be the next phase of my life.

It's even all the way back to Untouchables where he's like this clean cut kid. Right. He already seemed 50 to me. I'll say that was the other thing the draft a writer said was everything we had to look at again The character doing and saying through the prism of everything this guy does represents America, and he is everyone's dad Yeah, he's he's everyone's dad basically from like 1987 onwards Yeah, so that's basically it and it's like his his interests are at my my base and core.

Like I love the West. I love baseball. Like I like standing and looking out over the landscape and dreaming big. Talking to women like. Yeah. And I love I love it when a woman just like gives me an audience. She's just like, tell me what's up now. I just think he's been such a constant presence in my movie going life from as early as I can remember. My parents even telling me like,

that I was supposed to be Kevin Costner in Big Chill. Like when I first, you know, would walk through the living room and they were watching that. And it was, he's so, so yeah, like a real stalwart in my movie going life. They had it on like twice a week. You're like, you guys okay?

Oh my God. The soundtrack was on every night. Yeah, the soundtrack was on in my house going live. They had it on like twice a week. You're like, you guys okay? Oh my god. The soundtrack was on every night. Yeah, the soundtrack was on in my house a lot. How else are you gonna wash the dishes? If silently? I, it is funny that yes, like the things he most represents are baseball and, you know, being a cowboy. And those are things that are like... Baseball and horses.

Yeah, we have not left these things behind in America, in American culture exactly, but they are old fashioned now. And they're more like things we're putting museum, like sort of line around, right? Like where it's like, again, no, we still respect baseball. It's still fine. It's good. I love baseball to be clear, but like, you know, it's passing into, it's like jazz now.

Well, this is where I'm saying that younger people, I think, misread him where they're like, it feels like this guy's whole attitude is things were better back then, which it isn't. No, he has like a perspective on stuff. Right, but everything he does is rooted in there was a time. Yeah. You know? So, did you see Open Range in theaters, Chris?

I'm assuming yes. I think so. So, 03. I would have been 03 I'm assuming yes, I think so I Would have been oh three in New York like I think I was probably so yeah I think I remember seeing it on a big screen so yes, but it also is One that like it was a TNT Stallward and an HBO or Cinemax Star Wars So imagine nothing three hours clean That's prime time solved. 8 to 11 on DND.

Cause I was trying to do the math. On your wildly popular podcast, The Rewatchables, would Constance maybe be the most covered actor? It's Cruz, but he's up there. He's probably on the rush more of people that we've covered on the pod. You guys should do open range. Now I'm realizing we're actually kind of bogarting this

from you a little bit. Well, I think honestly, like, I wouldn't be surprised if someday we do. But it would be something where it was like, I don't know if Bill would love the first hour of this movie. Because it's a little, it's a slow, slow. It's pretty deliberate. Yeah, it's a little bit based.

So I don't think I've ever really heard him mention it, but I know his dad is super into Westerns and he would probably have seen it at some point. I do feel like, like you said, the film's ultimate cultural reputation is that it has one of the best gunfight scenes in, like, any Western ever made. Period. Yeah.

You know who thinks that? Kevin Costner. Another instance of him being correct. Yeah, of him standing up and saying something. She's the ego on you. Not disagreeing, but like, Jesus. Take some balls to say that. By the way, your balls look great. He probably has really nice balls. Yeah. I saw this film alone. This is the first film that I ever saw by myself. Wow.

It is a very clear memory for me. I was 17 years old. And guess what? Nobody in Britain, none of my teenage friends, wanted to go spend 140 minutes with Kevin Costner in open range. I had to go by myself. You look at the box office.

This movie almost made negative money overseas. Right. Like, I'm actually amazed it was available to me in London. But yeah, I was like, no, come on. It's like they have guns. And people were like, I have to go to like a house party and smoke weed. This is maybe another aspect of Costner's reputation changing

is like, this is when Hollywood starts to become a lot more obsessed with overseas grosses and overseas values It's not like this is the first moment, but this is certainly things getting more intense It was already starting to happen to him in the 90s. He is such a fundamentally American star Yeah That his movies and it may be why he was trying to take swings on things like post man and water world that even though They're very cowboy ish kind of traffic in this sort of larger, right? Yeah, right right right into it. Yeah, but like you look at you know costars like a big ten. Let's say

When when you try to like actually place yourself in the headspace of the run this guy had that was so insane Was borderline like arguably as good as any run any a list star had in the consistency of it right and not just that it was like a series of almost unbroken hits and Critical successes and many of them also Oscar successes, but that that run has basically all Become canonized as rewatchables or touchables Become canonized as rewatchables for every touchables bull Durham feel the dreams dance with wolves Robin Hood J. K. Yeah Bodyguard like that's right. Yeah, there's like yeah that run is insane what those six or seven no way out is just listed Yeah, basically all happened in a row. They that's that I just did it in a row I took out no way out in revenge, but you know what both those movies are awesome

They're good movies are sick. Yeah And then he caps it with Perfect World, which isn't like a huge hit, but it's great. We've talked about this. Yeah, he's excellent, Ann. And then it's right. And then it's this tough period in the later 90s of Wyatt Earp, Waterworld, The Postman,

where Tin Cup is the one kind of fun movie in there. And Waterworld has kind of retroactively become one of his big 10. Yeah, people kind of dig Waterworld now. How do you feel about Waterworld, Chris? I feel like it's honestly a rite of passage. I would almost say it's like Citizen Kane. Like, you gotta watch it once. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alright, so what about you? Did you see Open Range in the theater?

No. No, I didn't. Yeah. It was because I was too young. I just wasn't a big Western guy. Costner hadn't, I hadn't come to terms with it yet. Are you now, Griff, have you become like a big Western fan? I would say I'm a big Western fan, but I love Westerns. I always feel like it's one of those things like horror as well. I know you're a guy who goes so deep on horror where I'm like, I love horror. I think you need to have certain bona fides to say you're a horror guy or a Western guy.

And it's about like digging around the corners, right? I have not seen the the the seat here of great 50s Westerns problem. Yeah, right deeper you go I love trying to fill in gaps. Yeah Are you a big Western guy Chris? Yes. Yeah, I don't know like how completist I am but like I I mean I It's it's it's up there among my favorite genres And I I often will like go to sleep watching like whatever spaghetti thing I can find on to be that I haven't seen before you know what I mean like it's it's a very very very Familiar genre to me, and I just I will watch guys get off a train and walk into a town

And get a horse and and kill someone no matter what. But, like, killing someone, great, sure. I'm into it. We love it. We love harder on this podcast. But I truly am, like, just the fucking screen saver of, yeah, guys in leather jackets sitting by a campfire with horses. And, like, one guy's playing the harmonica, and, you know, like, I'm just like,

yeah, just sit me here. I'm saying to my wife the whole time, like, I should do this. And she's like, you would die in minutes. Oh, second. Like, you wouldn't make it one night without being like, where is the bathroom? But I just, you immediately, I'm like, yeah, I wanna be in this as long as I can.

Well, let's be obvious. You'd be the saloon owner who has never shot from anywhere but behind the counter. That's who you would be in a restaurant. Jelun? Jelun. You would never step outside. The saloon owner who just won't put anything on the line is just like, I'm just trying to make a buck here. I can't help the Baxter runs the town.

What if I ran the cafe? I like how there's a cafe in a lot of Westerns. I need to talk to you guys about the prevalence of cafe culture in open range. It's so weird that like we found button feasting on cafe scraps. I'm like, what the hell? Like, I just like the idea like, no, now I ain't open an ordinary restaurant here on the plains. I don't know. I'm opening that cafe. What does that mean? Like that he like has bacon? Like what makes it a barista coming in from Brooklyn? You ever heard of matcha?

It means you sit down at a table for four hours, even though you're actually only eating or drinking for like 45 minutes and you bring your abacus there. Yeah. Abacus. That's where you read all your correspondence. Exactly. That's what it is. Right.

Yeah. You're going back and forth. It's gone through the almanac. My version of that, of that screensaver is essentially the scene in Rio Bravo where Ricky Nelson and Dean Martin are singing. Yes. That's where I've actually said to my wife, I was like,

if I die, you could bury me here. And she's just like, you're the weirdest person I've ever met. That is my favorite Western. And that scene you're describing, the rifle, my pony, and me scene, I just, the first time, I saw that probably at some rep theater screening, maybe six or seven years ago. It had been a big blind spot, and I got to this scene,

I was like, this is as good as anything gets. But this is as level as I have ever felt in my life. Just the sense of absolute comfort and satisfaction in that. Pure well-beutrin. It's just like, yeah, it's leveled out. Incredible. I like, I'm worried's leveled out. Incredible. I like that.

I'm worried about her because Horizon is like a civil war saga, right? Like Horizon's got like a lot of deeper stuff going on, right? I don't know. Well, my understanding is that it's sort of him making a movie about the way America transformed as a result of the civil war more than a civil war movie. Right. It's not going to be like a war movie exactly, but like, right, whereas like I want Open Range

where it's like the conflict in this movie is they wanna have their cattle grazed wherever they damn please, and this Irish gangster is like, well that's my land, don't do it, and that's it, that's it, that's the whole fight. Here's the plot of the whole movie, ready? We're open rangers. Right. I. That's the whole fight. Here's the plot of the whole movie ready We're open Rangers right I don't like open Rangers. I don't know what that is. I don't either

Yeah, yeah I'm gonna kill one of your guys or he says I'm gonna beat up one of your guys Yeah, they get angry they go to get revenge He kills one of the other kills the same guy right tries to kill another injures the other guy Yeah, and then they're like I guess we got to have a shootout He kills one of the other. Kills the same guy. Right. Tries to kill another one. Ingers the other guy. And then they're like, I guess we gotta have a shootout. I guess we gotta fucking take this town to pieces. Right.

And the last hour and a half of the movie is them prepping for the shootout and then the shootout. Right. And then Costner uncorking a monologue. I had to dip an ink. Yeah. While she just takes it like a fan in her face. But it's truly, it's a movie where there is like one disagreement that is had early on.

Yeah. And things spiral out from there. Leading to an inevitable shootout. Yeah, it's so simple It's very simple. It's based on a book that looks like you know just like a paperback like you know with the cover It's just someone just drew a horse and was like I'm done It's like a guy with a girls West resting on his bosom You know and like he's looking out at the plains and he's just like well We've tamed another town. There we go

But it's so funny to me that like every other time he stepped up to the play as a director He is taking on something that is by its very nature almost by design unwieldy Yeah, dances postman shirt. Yeah. Yeah, right. He's going against like so many forces. This is like let me strip it down Well, let me in fact, let me give you a little bit of the Costner what he's been up to sure since the postman He makes message in a bottle a movie. I've never seen. Yeah, has anyone ever seen message? The force Diane Lane, no Robin Robin right and it's one of the last Paul Newman movies. Oh What interestingly, huh? It's a movie that does okay? It's a Nicholas Sparks movie first Sparks I think right it does spark him one up. It does all right

Yeah, he does for love of the game now Chris you have to have a for love of the game take I it's not one of my favorite Should be a masterpiece. It is so frustrating to watch. It's a little bit of a tough, you know loss for for Ramey for cause for you know, like that Why isn't that good? But we I feel like I'm in a pretty minority Position at the ringer when it comes to love other people love it really It's like bill bill is obsessed with it. I think because of how it screws up baseball, but yeah Oh because well also because he made it in the middle of the steroid era and like

watch like Jason Giabi juicing up or whatever it was. Right. And possibly fucked Cal Ripken's wife. I'm repeating a rumor. The rumor is that he fucked Cal Ripken's wife and Cal Ripken broke his hand and they had to sabotage Camden Yards. That the electric grid went down in the city so that Cal Ripken's could stay alive. The street could continue? Yes. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. That the electric grid went down in the city so that cow they count Ripken's

Continue yes, that's great. Yeah. Yeah, we did a full episode on a Chris And it is weirdly a movie where Costner staked everything where he did his classic I'm not a hab But it has to be this way and fought really hard and everything and made everything more difficult and lost the battle But also infamously when the movie was coming out in the press just shit talked the movie a bunch Was like these execs are cowards. They didn't back up my vision and they're like you're not the fucking director, dude and and Universal issued a statement that was like Kevin Costner was holding our asset hostage And this was in the week or two before the movie came out so that movies under performance also just kind of makes him

Borderline radioactive to studios of like is this guy no longer capable of being rained in three more movies 13 days Which we've talked about solid good pretty good Sort of like him and him doing accent again him and you know in politics Yeah, it's solid movie cost a lot of money didn't make a ton didn't get the Oscar nominations clearly we're hoping for three thousand miles to Graceland a film I've never seen obviously like a notorious bomb right Chris I assume you've not seen three thousand I'm not I'm not a big Elvis like like mythology guy yeah but that's the absolute need dear like that's the point where it's like, he just released a movie that did nothing.

Which is, I'd never saw also, I'll admit. We'll cover in 10 years. Fine. And as JJ pulled out, at the peak of his career, in the mid-90s, he dropped all of his representation. Right, he fired Michael Ovitz, or no, he fires CAA when Michael Ovitz leaves CAA. And he just has no agent.

And he had no PR person. I don't show up to interviews and say this or that question is off limits, like he said. So, maybe he finally is like, something's not working. But I think basically everything between Postman and Open Range is him in the wilderness where he's like, I make my own decisions. And he decides, I'm gonna make a Western. He developed two Westerns. We don't know what the other one was, he's like, I make my own decisions. And he decides I'm going to make a Western.

He developed two Westerns. We don't know what the other one was, but Open Range is one of them. This guy, Craig Storper, who wrote it is a grip basically, and who's adapting this like sort of, you know, dime store Western novel that Kossar had read. Oh, no, he didn't know it. OK, right. He says he's read other works by't know it. Okay, right. He says he's read other works by the same author.

Lauren Paine. But was, had been working with this guy for like almost a year developing the script and only then realized it was based on a book. Can I just say another one of my favorite bits in the Deadline piece is when Kossner's like, yeah, I showed Taylor the Horizon script just in case they needed some Yellowstone writers like we're just wanted to show what we were working with I was just imagining Taylor shared to me like thanks man cool, man. He's handing him this like bound volume to it's probably like wrapped in leather This guy wrote four movies in the time. It's taken you

Right that must have been part of the kind of like, the subtweet of the thing. I feel like the fundamental thing is Costner is like, I am king, not you. And I sort of know what he means. I do too. Because now the Yellowstone mythos is all like, Taylor Sheridan, like the bard of the fucking,

you know, Mountain West, right? Yeah. And Costner's like, you know Mountain West right yeah like and Costner's like you know Yellowstone doesn't work without me doesn't you know explode without me which is probably true and That just fest so I mean this is in the Deadline piece Costner talks about how he doesn't do press ever Unless he's promoting a movie right or promoting a TV show that he refuses to speak to the press outside of promotional cycles for new projects And so he's like I don't even know what that means. It's like it's like you mean you don't just like go on pods like He's yet to say yes to us We offered him mirror has two faces never got back to us it's unrealistic I love Babs

No, but he was just like I've basically let them for a year and a half say whatever the fuck they want about me Leaking stuff from anonymous sources about how I was unprofessional and shut down Yellowstone and he's like I didn't break my rule I didn't talk to anybody right now. I have a new movie coming out So I'll tell you exactly where I stand and he lays it out very basically which was just like I Don't want to have downtime where I'm not working. No I to be clear I sympathize with Kevin Costner I think Yellowstone was probably annoying to make only got more annoying with all the delays and right and he's like look I'm I'm not a young man right I want to go do stuff. And they carved out they were

just like here's when we'll be shooting here's when you won't be shooting and he tried to develop he finally has the capital to fucking mount his big magnum opus movie. And then they suddenly were like, it's a 5A and it's a 5B and the 5A isn't starting for 16 months. And he was like, I sat around my ass for 14 months, I didn't shoot anything when I was contractually obligated. And whatever.

My favorite part was when Mike Fleming disses the runtime of his movie and he says, oh, shut up. I like that part. And then he keeps circling back and saying I was just joking You know, I was just joking. But why are you so obsessed with the runtime? It's he's like this number you're fucking in love with is my favorite part You guys like Yellowstone never watched it Yeah, the little bit I've seen of it felt like something I would vibe with of like, yeah, Dallas with horses, right? Like where I'm like, yeah, this is fun,

but it was not so compelled. The first two seasons are awesome. It's just got a little bit of like, we can't afford to kill any of these people, but the entire, like the world that we've created is so violent that like people survive office bombings and walk out Smoking, you know, it's like a marval problem. Yeah, but it had it had like it had like a real Amazing spirit the first two seasons. I thought it was just like took itself so seriously, right?

Which is the sure the entertaining it is awesome. Yeah, what's your power ranking the Sheridan shows? Cuz I know you're America's number one lioness defender. I am. I thought lioness was incredible. And I also am a big fan of the first season of mayor of Kingstown. Oh sure, that's the Renner? That is for absolute sickos.

Like I can't with a straight face recommend that to anyone who believes it up. Right, that's one of those things where Paramount spins a wheel for a while and then they're like, really? Like you didn't, this isn't Mary East town to be clear. It's not the one with Kate Winslet. This is the plot of an episode in the first season of mayor King's town. A meth dealer blows up a house with a child inside of it and goes to prison. And Jeremy Renner's character orchestrates his assassination by multiple racial gangs in a prison.

And the whole thing is like, the cops are gonna let it happen and Jeremy Renner's like, you shouldn't, cause if you do this, the lion will be out of the cage. And you get like 30 minutes into it and you're just like, what am I watching? Like, how is this, How is this on my screen? Fucking Diane Weiss is in this? What the hell is this show about? It's like set in like

a town where prison is the business. He's Michael Clayton for jail. That's Renner's character. Right. He's the mayor. He is like the fixer of the city, but mostly in the corrections office. He's a bail bondsman of some kind. And he basically does a lot of like, I'm going to get these guys to like lay off the drug dealing while the guards are on strike or, you know, like all sorts of stuff like that. Aidan Gillan plays a Russian mobster?

This is the thing. It sure does. If you go to any... How's that accent? It's exotic. It's spicy. If you go to any Sheridan show and go one, two, three, four, five, six, go down to number 12 on the cast list,

the name will blow your mind. Yeah, because it's always right. It's always these Oscar winners. I mean, I know the guy has obviously a track record at this point that he can draw in people. And I do feel like he has this mystique where he's got his cowboy hat and he's like, yeah, I'm just doing my thing, man.

And like, that works, right? And then you get Nicole Kidman in Lioness. And Morgan Freeman. It's just kind of like, yeah, I'm just doing my thing, man. And like, that works, right? And then you get Nicole Kidman in Lioness. And Morgan Freeman. It's just kind of like, oh, also they're just here. All right, now, not to speak of Morgan Freeman, but he's in a weird place in this program. He's in a very weird place. Yeah, but like, there is a scene in Lioness

where it's like, it's Nicole Kidman, Michael Kelly, and Morgan Freeman are talking to one another about like the lioness program And it is it is another like pinch me. I can't believe we've arrived here in entertainment The fuck is the lioness wait, this is a real thing. Oh my god. Yeah, huh? Taylor Sheridan's never made up a thing in his life. Well, it's all real. Wait, and he's got something new. That's Okay, Billy Bob Thornton is like an oil guy. That's pretty good.

Landman. Landman. John Ham's in it? Oh, he's playing like a titan of the Texas oil industry. That's interesting. Isn't it funny how John Ham, like, now only plays the worst, richest people in the world? Yes. Like, he's just jumped to that. He's like Elon Musk in everything now.

Yes. Like, he is charming, you know? Someone could do that with him again. He's another guy who's in a weird place. Yeah. Yeah. To pull it back to the Western. I will say that probably the best thing. The best thing I think he's done is still 1883. Right. That was the one everyone was by the Sam Elliott thing. Yes. Which is just a really, really amazing, you know, I, I, I Lonesome Dove is my favorite Western novel. And I, I, the mini series, it has the same kind of like we're on a wagon train. They were on a cattle driving Lonesome Dove, but this is a wagon train going West, trying to get to

Oregon and Sam Elliott's leading them through the badlands kind of. And it's just it was just an awesome like mini series can see. And when they when they end it, because you kind of think, oh, this is going to go on for six seasons. Like they can they can take their time getting Oregon. It could take forever. It ends like with such a hammer. And it actually is so effective the way it ends that I really admired. Jared and for like being like, I'm walking away from the bag and just not I'm actually gonna have like I'm not gonna get yellowstone where like we're somehow keeping all the main characters alive Right for for five seasons. It's it's really brutal

Let's also say Sam Elliott much like Robert Duvall is the rare modern actor Who you put him in a Western and it's just automatic integrity. It is automatic credibility. It's legit. Oh, you're making a real Western. Do you think... Duvall's obviously incredible in the Lonesome Dove mini-series. Like, this character isn't completely apart from that. Like, the most interesting thing about Open Range

is Costner being like, Duvall's first build. He's the star. I am only making it if he's the star, and I want that to evoke that kind of, you know, true gritty... Which I think is a two-pronged thing. I think it's Costner being like, I worship this guy. I want to work with him,

and I want to make a work that is basically a tribute to him. And I think the second part of it is, Costner is relishing, relieving himself of the responsibility of being the guy. Right, it's not all on my shoulders or whatever. Right, whereas much as in many ways he is the protagonist of the film, you feel him loosing up of being like, I can be a little more of a cat. It's this thing I said that he talked to me about on the set of Draft, where he was always talking about Silverado, and the sort of breakthrough

of Silverado for him, and that he got to be the guy who could just be fun. And basically, from that moment on, it's like that launches him to Untouchables, and now it's like, you're the shoulders. You're the steady hand, other characters, the other guys at the side are getting to be the color in the movie.

And you're this, like, incredibly stoic vehicle for narrative to be carried through. And this feels like, by putting that emphasis on Deval, he gets to cut loose a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. And he gets to play sort of the sad—the sadder, older version of his Silverado guy. Like, what if this guy never kind of grew up, right? And he kind of has this take of like, this guy's like a Vietnam vet. Like, it's the Civil War, obviously,

but it's like, it's the same thing. He's like, come back from war, and he doesn't know how to like fit into society, and you know, he's a killer now. And the weird part of this movie being like, this odd kind of emotionally stunted relationship, or like, the roadblocks to a relationship between two people who basically have no language

for like adult mature romance. Yeah. Who both know they're at a place in their lives where like they've maybe missed the window. Well, they missed the window. Yeah. Oh, you mean him and Benning. Yeah.

Yeah, him and Benning. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But just how incredibly awkward he is with her is so endearing. He literally spends all day hanging out with Robert DeVall and Diego Luna. Yeah.

These are his boyfriends. Like this is it. That's his life. Yes. They move cap. So yeah, he's rolling around in the mud. Like the highlight of his day is digging a wagon wheel out of a pile of dirt.

You know what I mean? And then he winds up with a tea set. Yeah. And he meets her and it's so clear, like, I want this so badly. And I lack the language to make this happen, to understand it, to come to terms with it. The emotional intelligence. Yes, yes.

Um, so, okay, so Kosser develops this, and he decides he has to direct it. You know, he felt like the little things, given the state of movies, would have been lost. Okay, so Costner develops this and he decides he has to direct it. You know, he felt like the little things, given the state of movies, would have been lost. Someone would have gone through with a fine-tooth comb and eliminated six or seven minutes, brackets, or 40 minutes, Kevin. Not complaining about the runtime of this movie.

I enjoy it. But Costner, I guess, has the cred to be like, yeah, this movie will be long and we'll sit in the atmosphere of this life. Rather than just like, let's get to the conflict pretty fast. And beyond cred, it's that he's putting up a sizable amount of the budget himself. Nothing compared to the Horizon outlay. But he's putting up a lot of the money himself. He's calling in a lot of favors. He's managing the production, getting it to the right size

where he knows they'll back the fuck off. And it managing the production, getting it to the right size, where he knows they'll back the fuck off. And it's shit like you get to the chocolate scene, which I think is one of the best scenes in the movie, and is the perfect example of the thing that anyone else makes him cut. And that if he's the actor and not the director on the movie, the director says, do we really need this one in there? Oh, yeah. I mean, my entire like, sort of theory about this movie is that it's essentially a B movie

Yeah, like it's like like the plot of this film could be done in a 90 minutes Yeah, yeah quick anxiety you never spend any time with Michael Jeter you don't go to the cafe for dinner and meet the cafe owner you don't meet the Chocolate salesman all the stuff that you spend so much time doing You could get in and out and knock this out and honestly would have been like fairly entertaining But probably not as resonant as this movie winds up being it's an on-paper programmer Yeah, yeah, and then like but he treats it. I Won't I cuz like it's hard to ascribe. You know is it actually in reading this deadline thing. You know it's like

You know it's hard to ascribe a certain perspective to him because I want to be like, this guy's shooting this movie like it's a European art film. You know what I mean? He's just like, I'm going to get the process of what it was like to be here and we're going to spend time so that the gunfight feels so momentous. But like, he's got such a unique set of interests, I would say, you know, like in terms of like what he thinks is a valuable use of film. And once you give yourself over to that, I think there's some magic in there,

but it is very odd. It is very odd when you're like, 99 out of 100 other directors know that the audience will understand that like, when ride away from camp that they did cross the river But we don't have to show it. Yeah the third time Yeah, you know and he's he is like no it go camp was on the other side of the river So when they go to town they got to go over the river and you're just like again It looks nice. It looks great. What do you want from him? And in that Deadline article,

it's like he keeps on setting up this sort of battle that's like I'm fighting executives and studios and networks who don't respect the audience. And I have a deep relationship with the audience. I've had it for decades. They've been with me. I owe them something. I need to give them what they want.

But then the second part of it is, but they actually don't know what they want. I know what they want better than they do. Right, and it's a rise in the American saga. Parts one, two, three, and four. Motherfucker. And he's just like, you can't give... I don't care about making money. You keep saying like, well, you know, I like making money, but I don't care about making money. It's not about this. It's not about that. It's just about, I see a vision of things,

and this is how it should be, and this is how it could be done right, and this is what I want to tell the people. I'm not Ahab. He keeps saying I'm not Ahab, because I'm not obsessive in chasing these things. My I'm not Ahab shirt answers all the questions. That sort of open range is a smaller version of that. Disney is like, we will give you $12 million. He puts up ten, it seems.

It's him and two other guys. David Valdez too, yeah. Put together the remaining ten. Which, like, I think in like 1996, he can get this movie funded no problem, but he's also in 1996, he's like, no, let me make three- sci-fi Western epics. Like I have the backing for it.

And now his cred is gone enough that Disney's like, we don't wanna do it. We'll do it, we'll kind of do it cause you're Kevin Costner and like, it's cheap enough. But like the lack of enthusiasm for a film like this in 2003 is pretty evident. And if anything, people are actually more into a movie like this now. Like I do feel like Yellowstone, etc.

There is more appetite for the Western a little bit. Well, this is what Horizon is going to test out. Right. Well, it's not going to do that well. I mean, who knows? Maybe it will. I don't think you should count it out. I'm not counting it out. He's been counted out before. But like I'm not hearing Horizon buzz. He's been counted out before. But like, I'm not hearing Horizon buzz as I walk the streets of Brooklyn.

I guess that's not where I would be hearing it. 1990, Dances with Wolves, big hit, wins best picture. And then three years later, Unforgiven? Yeah, yeah. You had two Westerns win within a short period of time that were both these like, oh, tourist, you're two Westerns win within a short period of time that were both these like all tourists movie star driven Kind of I mean unforgivens fully revisionist kind of deconstruction thing But it felt like there was this movement of like oh is there a new Western wave coming and then you have things like Wyatt

Earp and tombstone and whatever but it does feel like by the time this movie comes out Which is only ten years after unforgiven the thing is done like the whole moment had like come and gone and Especially to make a movie like this that is not framing itself as an epic because dances with wolves was like well This is a saga unforgiven is like we're viewing this from a modern vantage point to make something that's this classical and viewing this from a modern vantage point, to make something that's this classical and also this simple, I think felt bizarre.

I see a lot of people refer to this as a revisionist Western, which I think it absolutely is not. No. Not really. It is a Western made from someone who lives in a modern world, but I don't think it's revising the view of- The only thing that feels,

quote unquote, revisionist about it are things like his trauma about the Civil War being a little more direct. I think that the way that they shoot the gunfight, while I don't know necessarily is note-perfect accurate to what those were like, the idea of... You do read about these guys were basically drawing down on each other from five feet away and missing because the guns were 11 pounds and would misfire and go left and whatever. And like, so those guys standing right in front of each other and just like missing or nicking each other is somewhat, from my understanding, historically accurate.

And like, I think he plays up that you don't really, that's not pack and paw. That's not real. And that's not pack and paw. That's not right. That's not Eastwood like you don't have that kind of That kind of like intensity of of like something to go wrong their accidents that are happening all over the place people are slipping and falling Like that's not that's not a classical Western So that's the revisionist part for me at least in the gunfight But a lot of that too to me is just when you know The greatest American studio filmmakers were making Westerns

in the 30s, the 40s, the 50s. There was a major calculation of these movies are partially for children. Of course. Right. Good guys, bad guys. Right. And you're trying to smuggle some of the more complicated themes or psychological depth in there, but you're sneaking it through very conventional sort of programmatic, like these are the stock beats of these types of movies that audiences have learned to accept and love.

Now these movies get made more infrequently, and I do think people put that psychology first and forefront because he's not making this movie for children at all. He's like, this is gonna get released in August, this is counter-programming for grownups. It was rated R, I think, right? Yeah, yeah, he was mad about that He's always fucking mad. What was he's mad about that?

God, this is just like with for love of the game where he's like I should say fuck eight times. If it was season 13 it would have made like a hundred million more dollars. But this is why he's like Such an important like modern Western figure right his band of course is called Casey and the modern West Yeah, yeah is because like in his root philosophy like, modern Western figure, right? His band, of course, is called KC and the Modern West. Yeah. Yeah. Is because, like, in his root philosophy, he approaches everything with the attitude of a cowboy in a movie. Right? Westerns like this, like, open range,

are all about, like, you meet some guys and we establish what their code is. And the dramatic tension for the rest of the movie is gonna come from they have drawn a line for the audience of what they stand for and what they will not stand by and witness. And the whole movie is about pushing them to face those lines and test them to see if they can break. And that's like how he approaches everything

he fucking does in his life. I don't care what anyone else says, this is who I am. Yeah, he's got a zillion quotes in this dossier, which are all, you know, badass stuff. I mean, like, he's a badass, I can't deny it. Like, it's not in vogue, I'm not in vogue, but tough shit, this is a real genre, and like. In vogue is the term he uses over and over and over again,

of just like, basically, after Waterworld and Postman, he's just like, I know I no longer fit into this. Right. Right. Right. And like by 2003, the big movies are what? The Matrix, The Hulk. He brings up Hulk in an interview. He does.

Like Pirates of the Caribbean. I wonder what he thought of that. Yeah, Finding Nemo. Finding Nemo. He probably liked Finding Nemo. That's one tough fish. Well, it's got lots of water. He must have loved it. Exactly.

Open Range is about Boss Spearman, played by Robert Duvall, who is a seasoned cattleman, and he's got three hired hands. He's got Charlie Waite, that's Kaz, who's an old ex-Civil War sort of... What was he, like, an assassin? I don sort of, what was he, like an assassin? I don't really, like, yeah, he was like a hired killer. I think he was essentially in like the 18th, you know, the 19th century version of special

forces. So it sounds like he was like plucked out of, yeah. And it was like, he was like the lioness of the 19th century. He was plucked out of like the usual infantry to be part of like a kind of guerrilla force that's attacking the Confederates. That's what I think is key here, is that this is sort of his like Top Gun Maverick character of like this is an aged hotshot.

Right. Yeah, yeah. And even like the hair is so perfect for that because it's like he has highlights, but it's also thinning. Yes. Like that's where this guy is at at he does have some cool guy tips though it's true a little frosted tip I mean he had his run in the 90s where the press

was constantly mocking the way his hair loss was clearly visibly yeah taking over movie to movie and he just publicly always said his line, no plugs, no rugs, no drugs. When it's gone, it's gone. It's still there. Well, I think at some point, he maybe went back in a couple of those times. He's got a very different head of hair now. He does. He does.

But it's kind of incredible to watch this, where it's just like, yeah, it does. His hair symbolizes something. Everything about him symbolizes something. Now, with them are Moe's, played by the great Abraham Ben Ruby. I mean, I love Abraham Ben Ruby because of ER. Uh-huh. I love him because of Parker Lewis can't lose, obviously.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. There you go. There you go. He, by all accounts, was cut out of the postman, and Costner gives him this role as an apoligia and then proceeds to beat the shit out of him He's really good in it He's really good and he does get a lot to do at the beginning and they have to forefront the character to make his His death matter Diego Luna is button looking there. I say cute as a button. Okay, so but here Okay, here's my big question snack and a half didn't know all you obviously Diego Luna is a cutie pie

But did Costner watch Itumama Tempien? He mustn't. Like that is fun to imagine. These two men, they stood up straight and they looked this woman in the eye. Two men at once. Maybe that was also a can when he was there for Matrix. Possibly.

Yeah, you're right. He shifted his brain into Europe mode. He must have seen it, right? Of course he did. I mean, Diego, this is like the first thing I saw Diego Luna in after E2 Mom. I think he's in Frida, but I don't really remember him in that. Yeah, but this is kind of the beginning of Hollywood trying to plug him in. And he's great.

He's great. He's full of beans. Like, he's really a sweet pie in this movie. But yeah, and they are cattlemen and they're moving cattle on the open free grazing they're they're going across the pastures and and and Feeding off of whatever they find and then like they come into some Contact with somebody who doesn't like that the great the lake, right? They one of my Mount Rushmore actors Michael Gamb Gambon, as an Irish douchebag who owns like a good

40,000 acres or whatever the hell is going, how much land does this guy have that he's like, get your cows off of it? A lot. I want to see if I can find this. Yes. My grandmother, Chris, is in her 90s. Let's say And we we email a lot She'll also just send me Aaron thoughts throughout the day as it needs to communicate what's in her heart

This was an email from last September the day that Michael Gambon died or the day after The Sherpa throw is way way too large if you're sure you don't want it will give us an excellent present someone this is her Complaining about the blanket. I bought her from Costco Great puffer jackets great warm enough, and then she just writes new paragraph Read the obit on Gambon in the times looking at his photo. I felt he was beautiful She's right felt more than just sadness certainly something spiritual. Oh Well, how do you feel about Gambin, Chris? Are you a Gambin man?

Just an incredible, incredible character actor. And I am a Gambin man. I also, the Westerns of the late 80s to the early 2000s gave me a lot of self-consciousness about my Irish heritage, because often, at least in young guns and open range, the Irish are the bad guys. Yeah.

Yeah, this movie is almost racist to Irish people, I will say. But Young Guns is straight-up racist. Yes, it is. Ben, you often weigh in when we cover films on the podcast that are anti-Irish. I've been known to mention my thoughts. Yeah. I didn't find this portrayal to be very sensitive.

No, not at all. I wonder if Jim Sheridan maybe had a different take on this material. I mean, obviously, Sir Michael Gammon, the great Sir Michael Gammon, an Irish actor, to be clear, he's not just putting putting on some Barney accent or whatever. Sure. Um, is the villain here. And that's that there is this, I guess there's a perspective where you can be this guy made it all the way from fucking Ireland. Yeah. He says as much this, his whole thing is like, I just want my goddamn land. And now you're coming. Now I don't know

how much a bunch of cows eating some grass is really messing with his day-to-day margins. Like, he's already control a town. Also, didn't he flee a place where land ownership was kind of the whole problem that he was trying to get away with? That's why he's got a chip on his shoulder about it. I don't know. Wow. Yeah.

I think it's much more of a sort of spiritual argument of, if I let this pass, you know, I rule through fear. Yeah. Right. I maintain a hard line. It's less what these guys are doing and more that represent, because look, these guys are fucking free. Is free range a thing?

I've never heard that. Yes, to this day. Like, if you drive it in the West, like you'll see a sign, this is open range. And that means like, cows are allowed to, animals are allowed to eat here, no matter what the land ownership situation is. And there's a lot of open range laws in America.

You live by your own laws. It's what Nomad lands about. Yeah, it's what Nomad lands about, right. And if this was set in the modern day, Blue Bonnet would work at Amazon. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, costume be pooping in a bucket. I think it's the best, constantly pooping in a bucket. I think it's the best movie of pooping in a bucket to win Best Picture, right?

Nomadland. Does anyone else poop in a bucket in Best Picture? It's actually weird there's no bucket pooping in Green Book. So, okay, so yeah, right. They go to town and Denton Baxter, the evil landlord of the town, is like, fuck you, I hate you, you're open rangers. They beat up Moe's, they put him in prison. The guys kind of ride in and get Moe's out of prison for like a hundred bucks or something, like for a lot of money.

Well, no, it's initially gonna be a bunch of money, and then I think Baxter's just like, just get this guy out of here. Yeah, that's true. They kind of intimidate it. Right, you're right. They lean. It's initially gonna be a bunch of money and then I think Baxter's just like just get this get this guy out of here Yeah, that's true. They kind of intimidate it right right right you're right. They lean and So I guess this movie could just stand with them being like alright. Well this guy's a shithead. Let's go somewhere else, but Sticks in their craw to use a griffin expression absolutely And it's also just like there's a matter of principle here right and everyone in the town is like we don't like this guy either

But what are we supposed to do? We're just innocent townsmen they bring most of the local doctor Like, there's a matter of principle here. Right. And everyone in the town is like, we don't like this guy either, but what are we supposed to do? We're just innocent townsmen. They bring most of the local doctor, who's supported by a woman who Costner interprets at first as his wife, and continues to interpret that way for 90 minutes, because he's too scared to basically ask.

Who is Annette Bening, and a pretty phenomenal performance. Bening's amazing in this movie. She's amazing in this and I feel like there's almost, this is one of the last films in an era before she kind of enters. Her character poster. Did you know this movie had character posters?

I vaguely, now it's ringing bells. They're really cool. She's got a gun in her character poster. She doesn't really wield a gun in the movie too much. She's got a moment. No, but she likes to jump in the middle of a gunfight. Oh yeah. I feel like Benning's thing through most of her career

is like few people have ever been able to more consistently portray a certain headstrongness. She's flinty as hell. Right? She's the flintiest actress. There's a reason why, look, it's not her best movie, it's not her best performance, but Niyad is like a perfect encapsulation of what Annette Benning has come to represent. It's like, fuck you, let me swim.

God, that movie is a camp classic. And I think she's like, if you don't put a gimp suit on me right now, let me swim the goddamn ocean. There was an incredible emotional sensitivity to what she does as an actor. But this is like one of the most quiet and internalized characters she has ever played. Is that fair to say? Absolutely.

And she loved this character. She was like, this is a great part. Like, she's simple, she's got principles. She's like, it's all there. She has made one movie since American Beauty, which she basically like probably should have won the Oscar there She loses surprisingly. She's the performance in that movie that has aged the best. No question She does what planner are you from which is obviously like a noxious bomb

Yeah, but then like just sort of I think is just chilling. She doesn't really make until this and I think a lot of kids This is the area where she's not allowed to have kids. She's pregnant at the American Beauty Oscar year That was part of the thing, was people were like, she's gonna get up there eight months pregnant, whatever. Yeah, this is like... This is her coming back. This is an outlier in her career up until that point. And then after this, she sort of pivots harder into like,

and Costner talks about Studio didn't want her, wanted a younger actress. He was like, she's gotta be the right age. The whole point is where these two people are in their lives. They gotta be in sort of the same station. He's like, you need to believe that she maybe thinks that love has passed her by, and that's not gonna be the case with a woman who's 30.

And he even says in one of the quotes that JJ pulled up, he was like, I like the lines in her face. I think they're cool. God bless. And I do feel like Benning is like this ultimate champion for one of the only top level actresses in Hollywood who is clearly just aged. Yeah, no, you're right. I mean, maybe she's had invisible micro work done that I can't see.

But like more so than anyone else, I'm like, she looks like an adult person. Yeah. Yeah, she rocks. I love that. everybody in this movie Pretty much. Yeah as this like incredible line that they're walking where they they look Authentically of the place where the movie is set, but they also look like movie stars Yeah, yeah, right like like even the way that the costumes work where it's like Kevin Costner just has a cool neckerchief man You know like did it did guys back just has a cool neckerchief man, you know, like did guys back then always have cool neckerchiefs? I don't know, but it's a great touch, you know, it's like and she has that same thing where it's like she's like wrapped up in a

corset the entire movie, but just looks great. And she looks like she looks like a net bending, but also Sue and it it's a it's a great piece of like Hollywood movie making in that in that way. Kostner also, I mean, there are a few actors in history who have had a better understanding of how they play on camera. Like, he has such an incredible movie face. The angles of his head are so fascinating,

and he understands the power of them, and you just see him making adjustments by a millimeter of the angle So that his nose catches the light the right way or whatever. Yes, right We haven't talked to maybe enough about Duvall. I want to talk to Duvall Who's unbelievable in this movie? Even though it's like yeah do your thing like you know what I mean? Like it's not like this is not some challenge for him No, but it's just a rare gift to see him play a guy like this.

Yeah. Right. I know this is like a very obvious fit of a role where you're watching it. And it's very easy to take for granted how high level what he's doing. Actually, it also feels like he's been doing this part for a long time. And then Costner finally turns the camera on. Like he arrives on screen like fully the full package is there I love the the note about like how he accepted this in 24 hours like he was just like yep I'm in but I'll do this

Reach out or costner's reps reach out and go hey, we think we have something for deval don't take anything We can't send him a script yet. It's not ready, but it's being written for him. Please don't take on any other jobs. And then they finally get back to him like a month later, they send him the script, he says yes within 24 hours. Deval for me is just like the ultimate, has that guy ever had a dishonest moment in his entire career on screen?

And beyond that, has there ever been a moment where it feels like he's even reaching an inch hand-screaming I'd say he keeps it fucking centralized. Just kind of judge the judge. I mean we hate the judge Yeah, I don't think I can ding a moment of his shit in a bucket actually no bucket They just hold it off. He lets it all out We've talked about the judge at length. I think that Oscar nomination is pretty stupid. It's pretty absurd. I can't criticize anything in that performance. I've talked about it before but he did like a very long sit-down

with Colbert last year where Colbert went to Duvall's ranch that I think he ends in Montana. You go to Duvall's ranch and it is in Montana. That is correct. And it was just like a 40 minute interview. He's not going to the fucking Ed Sullivan's studio. Absolutely not. You go to his ranch. But Colbert was just like, how do you act? Like not to ask the dumb question, but like what makes you so good?

And he gave this answer that I paraphrased a bunch poorly, and you can watch the full clip for the better explanation. But he just talks about like it is having a sense of your own temperament and finding a way to bring anything the character needs to do within your temperament. So you're never reaching outside of it. Because the moment you reach is the moment something starts to feel fake.

Interesting. And it's like, yeah, that's whole fucking philosophy. Deval just makes everything feel like he's breathing, like it's just him existing. It's so there. Gone in 60 seconds? He's not bad in that. I'm truly just trying to find bad movies. This is the thing though, in absurd movies you're never like, ah, Deval, hamming it up.

He has no Tommy Lee Jones two-face performance. What about when he played Joseph Pulitzer in Newsies and he shows up at the end of the movie, he's like, I'm gonna crush you fucking kids. He's gone big, but I've never felt like- He goes big. He can go big. I've never felt him be self-conscious. What about if he was playing a network executive who had a successful show on his hands?

That's right. Like a big titty tat? What might he say about that? A big, fat, big titty tat. The other thing about Duvall is when I'm a kid, I know two Duvalls. I know the Robert Duvall of my life, which is open range Duvall is when I'm a kid, I know two Duvalls. I know the Robert Duvall of my life, which is like open range Duvall, bald guy. And I know that he was in Apocalypse Now and the Godfather with hair. And I'm almost like there's two different actors to me. I'm like, he just

became bald Robert Duvall in the eighties and that is the Robert Duvall that I know. In my mind, he's bald in both Godfather and Apocalypse now, even though I know he has hair in them. It's actually insane that he has hair in the Godfather, because the hair on his head even there feels crazy. He's the Barry Pepper part in the original True Crit, right? That sounds right, yes. I think you see Barry Pepper, Josh Brolin. I think he's Pepper, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

I've actually never seen... Obviously, he's also like Boo Radley. That's what I was going to say. When you watch's Pepper, but maybe I'm wrong about that. I've actually never seen- Obviously he's also like Boo Radley. That's what I was gonna say. When you watch those ones, you're like, this is a third actor. How was he ever 20? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, he rocks, to be clear. Like, always. Even in To Kill a Mockingbird, like, I mean, he's always good. But there is so much humor and sensitivity to the, like, sensitivity to boss Spearman. I love that he hates God. Yes. Is happy to shit talk God after his nice dog gets killed. And there is this, I mean, he, there's the scene

where he talks about his failed marriage. Yeah, no, that's the best scene. I mean, that's the scene where, like, why is he getting a fucking, why is he getting Oscar nomination for fucking the judge? Well, where he's the best scene. I mean, that's the scene where, like, why is he getting an Oscar nomination for fucking the judge, where he's yelling and screaming? And not this! Our judge argument was, if you're giving him a Best Supporting Actor nomination for the judge, you have to nominate Deval every time he gives a performance.

Which I'm not against! You can do that. It's just more absurd to single out that one. Right. But yes, it's like like he has this beautiful monologue about like his failed marriage, his failed attempt at being a family man. And then Costner's like, he never told me that. Right. And it sort of sets Costner off and like this guy is me plus 25 years.

Yeah. And there's no looking back for this guy. Is this my final window to like make a happy life for myself? I mean, it's not failed. They died of typhoid. I blame that on him. Yeah, he fucked up. Okay, he fucked up I think that's on boss. All right. I mean more in the sense that it's like and then he just went back to being some lonely He's just doing it gave up doing dude. It's also it's so great cuz like These guys have been out on the on the open range for Is it nine years? Yeah, there's and so like this is the first conversation. They're having yes

My dad's what do they talk about apart from like what the cows are up to and cards? We're gonna talk about the talk about rain like they can't even talk about fucking Netflix like they have no nothing else to talk They can't even talk about sports This is the thing that kids don't understand when they're watching this movie is that these characters don't even have Netflix it is actually great I has never seen squid game they don't know about kissing booth one let alone three and those things are cost Marion in length they don't even have the Yankees talk that actually is crazy that there weren't the Yankees to talk about in America

for like the first hundred or so years. Did I tell you they invent balls yet even? Fuck. Wow, that's rough. They had carts. I was... Yeah, they got carts and buggies. I was on a plane recently. Humble brand. Thank you. I was waiting for it. And it was a jet blue flight. So they got the satellite TV is in the back of the seats. Right? I'll direct TV action. Yeah, and I'm sitting there. I'm watching whatever business I'm probably like flipping on a spongebob episode or some shit, right? The guy behind me starts making weird noises and I was like, oh fuck, You know that feeling where you're like in a space? Yeah, no, sure. There's no space. Yeah. And you're like, like the time I went to see the Wolverine and people

started making noises and then I realized someone in the theater had been stabbed. And you're, but it takes a moment to acclimate yourself, right? Like are we in danger, especially on a flight? It's intense. And the guy's just going, and he's right behind me. me and I'm like is this guy having a psychotic break What's he watching and then I hear a couple other dudes on the flight make that sort of noise? Yeah, and then the male flight attendant very sternly walks down the aisle And I was like is he about to like chastise is he about to break something up and he walks up to the guy behind Me and he high-fives him. Yeah. Oh Yeah Oh cuz and I go oh the Knicks most of the Knicks one you see you've obviously never flown American Into or out of Philadelphia on a Sunday. We're like the like of the fully like the whole plane. It's just like yeah

Yes, all right And and CR I I do not engage with sports. I grew up in a household It was the number one thing my brother and father care about And I was around it a lot. It's not like I had never been... You're aware of sports. ...witnessed to something like this before, but it really did crystallize for me in a moment. Like, there is a certain type of shared language for a certain type of guy who has no other outlet to express his emotions.

And the only outburst he will allow himself is on a plane when the Knicks have won. That was a really tough one. Or watching the last act of Open Range. Right, but this feeling of like... He just wants to be with someone who understands him. The thing that crystallized for me was the flight attendant clocking the guy and going, I know exactly what he's responding to

and I wanna say, hey, I'm right there with you, brother. Right, right, right. And it was like in this environment if you're processing your emotions through sports Nothing is socially unacceptable Balls and hoops, so that's why these guys have never had a fucking conversation Yeah, cuz you can transition from like I don't think the Mets pitching is is there this year to I Wife died at type. This is the thing. It's like it's a faucet I also think it would have made a huge difference if you woke up at the sunrise. Yeah and worked Non-stop right harder than we've ever worked in our lives like any day of the week

These guys are like I had to dig out a wagon Yep, and then like move cattle like four miles in a circle or whatever They're doing like you would be so tired. You wouldn't be like oh man What I really want is an episode of SVU just to kind of take the edge off. Let's also acknowledge these guys basically Sleep at the office. They sure do. Yeah, right? They like they sleep on the work site constantly they do. I was trying to figure out what's boss Spearman's financial model So they've got like a not significant amount of cattle seemingly like it And enough to fit in one shot. It's not like it's miles long lonesome doves small business owner

Yeah, and do they ever mention like we're headed here because we're gonna get like They never talk about like if someone's buying the cows from them or something like that So this is Bob Dylan's never-ending tour like they're just like yes the whole point is to take these cows Around and fucking circled no wonder the Irish guys like come on. Where are you guys going? Do you have a destination in mind? Cross the river and then the other way back across the river It's another one that makes this so fascinating the Costner canon both as actor and as actor director is Usually when costs are stepping up to the plate the stakes of the movie are this one's for all the marbles

Yeah, right And here's a movie where these two guys are like, we're just doing our thing, and we'd be so happy to continue uninterrupted. Right. And you fucked with us a little bit, and we're debating whether or not we can let this pass. Right. What were you gonna say, Sierra? Sorry.

Oh, no, I was just gonna say, like, it was... It is one of those things that when you watch this film for the third or fourth time, you're just like, wait, where are they going? Yeah. Where? You guys going're just like, wait, where are they going? Yeah, nowhere. You guys going to Montana?

Like where's the station? Nowhere, but it's what's so profound about the Benning relationship to me is that like the conversation about Bluebell, what's his name, sorry. Bluebonnet. Bluebonnet. Bluebonnet losing his wife and child.

Yes. Would never have come up had they not been taken off their usual routine. Husser never would have heard this. It makes him view his friend in a different way, which makes him view himself in a different way, which then meeting this woman for the first time, he's just like, do I just want to go back to this fucking loop of doing this shit over and over again Yeah, he's also running away from his past Yes And you know in this sort of drudgery and the kind of like hard work right this and I'll just do this

Like at least I'm fine at this and I'm not hurting anyone doing this. He's got that great line where he talks about That's why the reluctance I think he's like I can take these guys down probably, but do I wanna open that up again? He's like, shooting people. The line where he refers to the fact that he had a knack for it. Right. Oh yeah. Which is what freaks him out, that he was good at it. He was good at it, right.

Yeah. Killing people. You know what he's good at is fucking busting through a wall like the Incredible Hulk so he can shoot the 14th guy that's after him. Let me know when it's green light talk about the gunfight. I think we're almost there. I'm trying to think of like are there any other touching sensitive atmospheric environmental moments we need to remark on? There was a couple of things that when you're watching it, when I was watching it this time,

I was like, wow, like the details that he and he's talked about this a lot, the details that he chooses to focus on, like bridging the road in town that's flooded. I love that. Yes. And there's lots of moments like that, like whether it's setting up camp, playing cards, like the like you said, digging, digging the wagon out, like which is the wagon out. And this is really kind of almost like every other director. This is like a two second shot of them walking across the road.

Like, it's... Right. And instead it's like, no, if this rains, you cannot get from the one side of the town to the other. Like, it's like, yeah. He's a real obsessive devil in the details guy, and I do think it's why the postman is the obvious stumble, is like, he's not good at world building in a fictional way. Right.

He's great at within realistic circumstances drilling down to like, and what are the tiny moments within that that most people would skip over when he also has to create the universe and establish new rules. Bill Marr style. I'm so fucking sick of that guy. Really? I think he's starting to get good. He's really rounded into shape.

My brother is obsessed with sending me clips of Bill Murray. I guess he has a podcast too. He doesn't have a podcast. He has Club Random. Where he smokes blunts with comedians and talks about cancer culture. Have you guys seen the Bill Burr clip? What the fuck are you talking about? Where he's like, uh, shut up Bill. I know about this stuff. And Bill Burr clip? Bill Burr is like where he's like What the fuck are you talking about? Where he's like, uh, shut up Bill, I know about this stuff and Bill Burr correctly is like, you've never done anything

in the sphere of foreign relations You're an asshole with a fucking talk show Why are you better than me on this? It's so satisfying It's the only time anyone has ever been like based on what? What, you host a show with the word politics in it in the title?

Jay Leno goes on that show. It's like this isn't the fucking like think tank Sorry, why do oh yeah new rules wait? Forting the flooded town what also oh no yes Just the postman thing of like he's trying to do the world building right sure yeah boy, which also, no, yes. Yeah. No, no, no. Just the postman thing of like, he's trying to set, can't do the world building. Right. Sure. No boy. But also what Chris, uh, that I think they use like 32,000 tons of water. And that would be like a total, like if I was producing this movie, I feel like, man, really? Like, cause there's no fucking checkoff in this movie. There's no, this is Chekhov's flood. Right. It's going

to come back. It's like it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that it's flooding that night other than it's like it traps them in town. He saves the dog. Yeah. Yes. Which is both a screenwriting gambit of hey who's causing it so bad. He'll go save the dog.

And that guy is so bad because he killed the dog. Right. But then also costars, you know, the townspeople like these are all right guys. That's pretty much it Yes, but that's true. But then of course he saves the dog But you don't need 32,000 tons of water to Save the dog from like falling in the river that was already there the movie costs 22 all in

All the actors I believe work for scale right and the crew I think basically all work for scale They spent a million dollars building the town is that correct he built the town because he didn't like the look of what? Is a million the number that's something like right they couldn't buy it But it was doing stuff like where they were like the buildings are too far apart He's like right come closer. You know like They built the town from scratch yeah in just an open range Let's say they filmed it in Alberta, Canada, which is where you film westerns, because it's still rugged and rural enough.

I mean, so much of the entire country that is fully unpopulated. And he has said, like, the only reason this movie looks as good as it does is because Canada basically gave me three times the production value at better rates with good crews and whatever. But this set they constructed in Hole so none of it was on sound stages all the interiors are done in these buildings that they constructed just for this movie Right was so far out from civilization. They had to spend an additional $60,000 paving the road so they could drive

God bless from the nearest town to the set. And that's like him just being like, no, this is the place to spend the money. Yeah. The production value of this thing is immense. It does not, it looks like a way more expensive movie. Yeah, it looks like a $60 million movie. Yeah. I think the only other thing we should talk about for the shootout is the chocolate scene.

Yes. Which is kind of just the scene that gets cut. I think Costner's right about that in the hands of like, whatever, just like, let's make a Western. Like, we don't need him rhapsodizing about, is it Belgian chocolate or Cuban chocolate? No, it's Switzerland. Oh, it's Swiss chocolate. There you go.

It's dark chocolate or bittersweet chocolate. Yeah. And like, every part of that scene is on the chopping block if it's a normal movie. 100%. But like, the things that come out of that where it's like, first of all, like, you get the tour of candy that would have been available at the time. Then you get this store owner who's like, I never, I can't afford to indulge in anything

that I sell. Right. I'm the high end sort of leisure class. Yeah, that's like 20% of my margin if I eat one of those yeah, yeah, and The interaction between the store owner and Duval or Duval is like you should you should live a life where you can have the chocolate Yeah, like you know what I mean? It's like this such a great moment And it's so crazy that that's just happening before like an all-out slaughter is about to happen outside

Well, here's another thing in most Westerns at this moment where the two guys shake hands and go I guess we're going into battle Yeah, right. We might not make it out of this right because they could always walk away They could always just like take it on the chin in nine out of ten movies where that's the setup The next scene is Costner goes to a net Benning's door at night in the rain, tells her he loves her. They at least have a kiss if not sleep together. And then the next morning he goes to the shootout. And it's like with the love of the woman in his heart. Instead, the chocolate scene is replacing that scene

because he still basically hasn't built up the courage to have the direct conversation with her. And it is only after he's survived the shootout does he have that talk with her Yeah, the chocolate is like the indulgence But it's also the like this slight emotional grounding of like what am I doing this for right? Them giving the bite back to the store owner. Let him try it is so good Yeah, right, right, and I just love them coming in and being like what's the best thing you got?

We need to like what is your number one most expensive item? We need to spoil ourselves, right, right and I just love them coming in and being like what's the best thing you got? We need to like what is your number one most expensive item? We need to spoil ourselves, right? I'm going I'm getting in the coffin with empty pockets. Let's yeah That's so it and of course. Yes, then right before they go to war Charlie is like what is your name? Your name is not boss, right? I need to know your given name before we die Your name is not boss. I need to know your given name before we die Blue bonnet spear fucking blue bonnet the greatest in the world. I want to get Charlie possibly Yeah, possibly that he does say right now. It's not wait. It's possible. Wait. Yeah, I guess he's embarrassed about sharing a name with a great character actor probably Or embarrasses Irish

That's right That might honestly be I want to get like an Atlantic City Airbrushed name shirt that just says blue bonnet spearman The one guy who recognizes that will mean a lot and just a chocolate rock It is such a good name, but What was the other thing I was going to say? You have the earlier moment, is it when Benning is making them tea where Deval comments on

that he can't hold the tea glass, that the hole is too big because he's broken his knuckles too many times? Yeah, hell yeah. These guys are men. But these guys have broken themselves in a way where they almost cannot enjoy life. Right. Obviously the tea set, which is another thing Kostner is like, that gets cut if it's not Kostner directing,

is this other motif of like, you know, their sensitive side. They seem stinky. They're probably a little stinky. They seem really stinky in that setting in her home. Before we get to that. I think they feel that way. They feel like these oafs, like, you know, like what you're saying about Kostner, he doesn't know how to talk to her. I want to say, so before we gets, like, you know, like, like, that's what you're saying about Costner.

He doesn't know how to talk to her. I want to say, so, before we get to the shootout, just to, like, lay out, they bring Moe's to the doctor, right? She's just standing by assisting. He makes the assumption she's a wife. Then they keep on going back there, and she starts reluctant, like, not reluctantly, but starts very quietly, timidly making these overtures of, you could spend the night.

And he's just shutting it down He's like I'm too nasty like I think he's truly like I'm too dirty to be in your I belong out in the wild Right right. There's that part of it. And also he's like isn't that your husband I? Have too much integrity to sleep with another man's woman Then it takes so long for him to come around and be like, hey, this is so embarrassing. You're never gonna, I thought that was your brother. So last night when you told me to stay over, I thought it was your husband, now he was like, right, isn't this like crazy?

And then even still he doesn't act upon it. Because then he's like, but also I'm a piece of shit. I'm a disgusting- I think he's gonna die. And I'm gonna die and you don't need to get involved with me. So it's the two of them. And how many guys does Gambon have, do we think? Does someone have a count?

Six or seven? Does he have more? This is a lot of guys. He has the three that are in jail plus James Russo, who we haven't mentioned yet. Who rocks, obviously. And those guys are all fucked up on chloroform. That's awesome. Let's also call out the guy who plays the doctor. Yeah Dermot I was like why this guy looks so familiar

Why is his name sounds so familiar and then I realized he's fucking Tory Spelling's crazy husband for the last for me on like a Ten-year reality show their reality run Reality show is known as all of our fucking gossip cycles that they've just been monopolizing for decades. Yeah, he gives a perfectly sort of locked down performance and this is totally fine. He like limps in and limps out three times. Yeah. James Russo, I mean, just watching him in Beverly Hills Cop, obviously,

playing a loose cannon. Love James Russo. Like, that guy has to play a dirtbag though Right like yes, has he ever not? No, and this is him just playing the ultimate there like I killed your friend. I enjoyed it. It was fun, right? Yeah But yeah, so those guys are in jail and then I think Baxter's got about nine twelve guys Otherwise because it's like eight guys walking up the street and three or four hiding in the galleys Otherwise because it's like eight guys walking up the street and three or four hiding in the alleys The ends of it is is in bed still laid up buttons laid up Moses gone Moses in the ground It's the dogs in the ground just the two guys going to two guys. Yeah, and they kick off

It's the coolest moment basically in movie history is costner just plug in one in Kim Coats his face Which one of you killed right the preamble though is really awesome. This is how this is going to go down. Right, right, right. Like, these guys, there might be two killers, three cow pokes, you know, a couple of ex-union guy or ex-army guys. And then they're going to come up the street. Once we start shooting, like if they're made of anything,

they'll try and like retaliate. But there's going to be a couple of scatter. Like here's how you live through this. Here's how we're going to and we're just going to make a run for the barn. And you know, they're not counting on the townsfolk rising up in rebellion against Baster. But they get lucky with that. But yeah. And then it is one of the all time Western moves, which is like take the biggest guy out on the yard first Yeah, you know any he just walks up to Kim. Kim Coats is on screen for 90 second. Kim Coats literally is yeah I mean, he's a good actor. I like Kim Coats Yeah, he just is just there to be shot in the head, which is a privilege

I would like to be a giant prick to be like I love killing. Yeah, you know, like And this is to paraphrase fucking the recently departed Why am I fucking blanking on his name? Fucking Bob Raffelson sure Bob Raffelson what did he say the famous line about him watching Bogdanovich's dailies

from last picture show when the studio was freaked out and said he's not getting the right coverage and he said this thing's gonna cut together like butter. And this whole fucking final shootout sequence is like that where it's just like every shot is so deliberate and so specific, starting with the cut of Costner taking out the gun immediately going to reverse shot a bullet in the head.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then just it's chaos. There's like 40 minutes left in the movie when the when the gunfight starts, I think. It's like 20 minutes or shootout 20 minutes or emotional wrap up. Yeah, 15 minutes emotional wrap up credits.. Like, that's how they do it. And it's like, it's both incredibly badass, and it's also like a bunch of guys in their 30s and 40s wearing suits or like cowboy outfits, scrambling around, randomly firing,

and like maybe they hit someone, like you say, with these shitty old guns. Well, and the deliberateness of when you have something That's kind of badass and cinematic Like fucking Costner Deval there's the part where Deval shoots the guy through the other side of the barn Yes, and the whole created by his gun is like a silhouette of his body like he's a fucking Looney Tunes character Yeah But then sometimes it's like Costner's moving the camera like fucking five miles away

Yeah, and letting you just watch with this sort of like objective distance these guys Scrambling around in the heat struggling to reload like it looks as lame and clumsy as it possibly could Yes, and it's it's all wide angles, so you kind of always know where you are in the town Which is really brief because like you would want you know ordin you are in the town, which is really brief because like you would want, you know, ordinarily you would just do all these quick cutting closeups and there's like some long sequence where Costner shooting at a guy who was hiding behind a water barrel. Yes. And it's shot from underneath a horse basically. Yeah. Tilt it up. And it's just like Costner slowly like kind of blowing away this water barrel to get

To the other side to get to the guy he's he's attacking and it's it's it's actually you know Like you get into like the whole like can you make an anti-war movie? Can you make an anti-gunfight movie in a cow and a Western and it's like this is pretty close I mean, it's there's some badass parts of it, but there's also like, man, this would really suck. It would really suck. I would be really bad at it. I would probably die. You'd be really scared.

You'd be scared. And it kind of also reinforces the whole myth of the gunfighting in the West. You start to realize, right, this is people watching from a house, 500 yards away, as these guys kind of scramble around and they're shooting puffs of smoke at each other and you're like, I think he got him. I don't know.

It's not like whatever, the Wyatt Earp mythos of like, yeah, he would just come in and clear everyone out. But also, like, you know, just tracking people and objects in space and time, which for me is the cornerstone of narrative filmmaking and the clarity with which you're able to do that. This final chunk of the movie, you got like 15 characters in place across basically like three city blocks. And you're always perfectly on top of what he needs you to follow, what he wants you

to follow. Can I just read directly here, this was Costner in an interview with Roger Ebert right when the movie was coming out about what you were saying, Chris. It was very much his intent to like make a gunfight that didn't make guns seem cool. He said, I know I'm gonna get my gunfight,

that's an obligatory thing, and I was happy to do it and wanted to do it, but I think guns should be loud in a movie and scare you. I remember this being so loud in the theater. The guns are so loud in this movie. The best anti-gun message is that there is a result after guns go off. It's not just people who are hurt.

Animals are hurt and buildings are torn up and people are scarred for life. A couple people told me that after the gunfight, we should go have a drink and have a nice ending. And I said, if you look at the old black and white photos of the old West, if there are people dead in the street, townsfolk gather and look at them, and those bodies don't disappear.

Somebody has to pick them up. There's an aftermath of violence. If a normal person sees it, it will make them sick. Yeah. Go off, Costner. Rules. It's so funny, because Costner is, I'm like, you're like this college movie star,

but then he just hypnotizes me, and I'm like, you're like this college movie star, but then he just hypnotizes me and I'm like, you're from then. You understand. There's also, and like he never also, like he doesn't drop the dramatic principles of the movie and the characters during the gunfight. The best, maybe the best part of the whole gunfight is when Charlie's hunting down that wounded guy and boss jumps in front and he's just like, we may kill but we're not murderers. Yeah. Right.

And this distinction of like, you know, because a lot of this movie is about like domesticating the West and whether this like rough and tumble ranch hand can hold a teacup and the changing of the sort of country at that time. Yeah, whether there's place for them. Right. But this guy's like, you let the beast out and now you want to have rules about how we clean this up. And, but Boss is like, I have these principles where it's just like, if somebody quote unquote

deserves it, like that, we would go through with it. But this guy's wounded, he's not gonna hunt you down. Like, it's a great little moment. And then they shoot it in such a way where you see, like, Duvall wins the scene pretty much, but Charlie walks over to the side of the barn and is like basically having like a PTSD moment, but he's in like the back of the frame. So it's a really interesting way of blocking it and shooting it. And the final shootout happens with two old guys

slumped in corners of a small room. I mean, they're like a foot away from each other. And then Gammon just being like, I'm dying, and he says it in this way that's kind of incredulous. And Duval's like, I don't feel bad for you. This was over, like, cows. You're stupid. Like, Duval's not like, I understand, I'm here with you. I'm sorry that, you know, we're Bushido here, right?

You know, he's just like, you're dumb! Like, we just ate grass, that's all we did, you dumb Irish prick. He doesn't say the last phrase. We skipped over it, but it is such a good moment when Gambon basically takes the doctor hostage and holds Benning a gunpoint. Right. He's kind of overplaying his hand at that point.

Yes, which he calls out. Yes, where he's like, I own all of the you in this town. Like, you all are beholden to my behavior. Right. Yeah. He's mean. He's a nasty bugger. He's a nasty piece of shit. This is right around when he's starting to be Dumbledore. Like, the whole thing with Gambon was that, like, in the 90s in Britain, it was like,

this is one of the most masterful theater actors that ever lived. He's a king. He does a lot of British TV and, like, indie the 90s in Britain, it was like, this is one of the most masterful theater actors that ever lived. He's a king. He does a lot of British TV and, like, indie movies and Peter Greenway stuff. Toys. He's in toys. He's in stuff like that. But when he was gonna do, I think, the caretaker or something, like,

some theater thing in New York, actors, Equity blocked him for not being a big enough star, because Equity could block him. And it was, Britain was one of those things where they were like, this is Michael Gambon. You don't misbehave like this. This is one of our legends. And then right after that is when he suddenly is like in any Hollywood movie.

Gosford Park is 01. Life Aquatics 03. He's really funny in Life Aquatics. I feel like there's another early 2000s one. There definitely is. His first Potter is the year after this So for right you get the sense that if that one were directed by anyone other than Alfonso Cuaron They would have gone with a more obvious no exactly Cuaron picks him because he likes that

He has this kind of like saucy wicked side and the rumble side of him He was like we're we're presenting this guy as like sort of too kingly and too benevolent I mean, he's the he's the L.A.G. in the house. Is that what you think? That's right. He's really good in Layer Cake. He's really, that's a fun performance. Yeah, and then it's just he becomes one of those British guys

that's like, I'll play a Brit for you, but also I can be in, like, The Good Shepherd or something. Like, you know, I can play, like, a kind of Tony American guy for you. I can be in like The Good Shepherd or something. Like, you know, I can play like a kind of Tony American guy for you. I can be a villain. And, you know, I can... What, do you want some like video game narration? I'll do that. He's just like around. Oh, he definitely did that.

And what? I think Elder Scrolls Online. Yeah, there you go. You know, he's just... He worked. Yeah, no, he worked. He worked. I saw him on stage. Sleepy Hollow. That's it. 99's Sleepy Hollow on the inside. Oh, him on sleepy hollow. That's it 99 sleepy hollow in the inside Oh, yeah, sleepy hollow. He's great in that. Yeah, those are sort of his first two Hollywood toe-dips played a president

What do you play Johnson? Hmm. He played president something I'm looking through Yeah, he played Lyndon Johnson in path to war. It was like a TV movie Yeah, I saw him on stage in Henry IV playing Henry the... playing Falstaff with Matthew McFadden as Henry V. OK. And David Bradley as Henry IV. Incredible. And I saw him on stage in A Number, which is an amazing play with...

where Daniel Craig played three clones, and he's the creator of the clones. So cool. It was just the two of them yelling at each other on stage. I saw it when they did it here, and it was Dallas Roberts. And I'm trying to remember who would have played the clones. So cool. It's just the two of them yelling at each other on stage. I saw it when they did it here and it was Dallas Roberts and I'm trying to remember who would have played the father. I don't know. Yeah. Good play. Yeah, good play. Good play. They made it into a movie. They are a TV movie. Wilkinson and Hardy, is that right? Sounds alright. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. No, Reese Ifans and Tom Wilkinson. Gotcha.

Okay. Yeah. But I love Gambon and whatever. He's an asshole and he gets shot in the face. And he's dead. And then the last 15 minutes? And then like some movies, again, the concert thing, some movies end right there. He rides off. It's like, all right, we did it. See you later.

Yeah, I'm Shane. I gotta go. I'm a fucking pale rider. I can't believe the extra 20 on this one. You're just like, wait a second. I mean, how? Is there like? Audiences are shifting.

Is there like a stinger on this? Like what's going on? Well, it's also the double down of down of being like and now the guys got his shit figured out, right? And he goes to banning and he's like I'm not quite ready to commit. Yeah, right exactly I'm gonna tell you now that I should have proposed to you yesterday Right, and I'm gonna do it now, but also I need Sam Shepard Correct. There we go. And Dallas Roberts.

Yeah. Yeah, he's still kind of afraid of his feelings. And she's like, I don't give a shit. I have a big idea of our future together. Right. He's like, I'm sure you wouldn't want to wait for me. And she's like, what do you mean wait for you? She's like, what's going on around here?

And he writes off, and it's this trick that many movies pull that is incredible because it should never work We're like a character leaves Dramatically and then the movie straight cuts to them returning a while later, right? And that's the only thing that they skip through right in this movie is his return and like so little time has passed for the audience There's no feeling of absence that we've had to live through. He basically cuts to like three shots of nature and then cuts back to him riding up in a different outfit. And she's been waiting for him.

And also Deval's like, that Swiss chocolate has given me a hankering for opening a saloon. And they do it. Yeah. There's a lot of growth in the cafe industry. Huge. I mean, do you think he's like,

look, I make nothing driving these fucking cows around all day and then I go to any cafe and I can get like a side of beef for like 14 cents. Yeah. Maybe I need to be on the other side of this. Yeah. Look, because that's what my impression of like the old West is like, you'd be like, can I get a 14 ounce steak? And they'd be like, yeah, it's free with your room like of course

Hey penny Which is like when you watch deadwood you're like, oh yeah, it's the old times and then Deb would they're thrown around like no I'm getting 800 grand out of this deal Right, but then they can also get a like a room for a dollar a week or whatever. Deadwood is quietly set in 1982 Yeah Anyway open range. Yes, it takes yeah, it's a slow landing. It's a glider coming in. That's fine I love it. Love it It's yeah, is it sending audiences out like shooting guns in the air?

Maybe not, but it was a slow burn hit. And then the end credits happen over footage of how well decorated the home is. Do you think if you're like- It's the architectural digest tour. Truly. Of Sue's place, yeah. Do you think if you're a 24 year old living in Harmanville

or whatever this place is called, and there's not a lot of women around right okay in the time of this film Yeah, yeah, you're like barking up a nit Bennings tree Is the most crucial question? You're like look. I know you don't want to have kids anymore. You're probably past that part You're like, but I still just want to throw down like let's do it It is incredible that she's just like no one's even asked Yeah, and I've also been waiting for a's just like, no one's even asked. And I've also been waiting for a guy just like you. Right.

They where have you been essentially? Yeah. Maybe she's a bio shirt that says, I'm with my brother and wear it all the fucking time. Because it's also like maybe the brother could get a wife that could help. We could get a little bit of a distinction. Like you could introduce people and say, I'm I'm Dr. Dean and this is my sister who services my assistant It would just like really clear things up No, but Tory wouldn't allow it like even on screen. She's like you can't be married

No, you have to be single only thing we weirdly skipped over because we love to talk about this guy in the podcast Michael Jeter the great Michael G. Oh, yeah His last this is his last performance the film's dedicated to him. And very self-consciously styled as like a Walter Brennan style like John Ford supporting actor in this movie and it did great effect. And you watch, no disrespect to Walter Brennan, but you watch a lot of those films and you're like, oh, the comedy of the comedy characters

is at a wildly different pitch than the rest of them. That's true. Right? Like it's your sort of classic. Back in the day it was like hey we need to like wake people up for five minutes like go do funny stuff. It's like Michael Bay movies where you're like you have one guy showing up for four scenes. Take your dentures out and blow on a harmonica. Play into the rafters. You're falling into a water tub. Michael Cheater is playing like the emotionally grounded version of that archetype

Yeah, and doing it beautifully. He's a beautiful actor and you're just like it's not like he transformed his look for this But he shows up in this film and you're like, oh right, obviously He is the heir apparent to those and he's got the awesome harness that he can jump around his barn in Yeah, I love that. Yeah, what a king. Where's There's a really good Costner quote about him. I mean, he said he screened the movie for Jeter before he died, which he was really happy about. I'll read it to you. He says, you know, he's very much in the mode of the Walter Brennans

and the war bonds. Cooper and Stuart and Wayne, they just wouldn't act without those guys. They needed them to do the dance. You need a scene where someone whoops and hollers and the heroes can't do that, so you need the whiskey old guy to do the dance. Jeter, one of the great dancers.

I mean, watch his Tony acceptance speech. We'll read for Grand Hotel. We'll post it for the fifth time on our Twitter when this episode comes out. One of the great moments in broadcast television. But I also just love that he's like the moral center. They get to the town and they're like, no one wants to stand up against this guy.

And he's like, I hate this guy. And I'm with you a hundred. I've been saying this for so long, this guy sucks. Do you know that Koster's appendix burst a few weeks into production and he didn't bring it up with anyone? Yes. That's great. Because he didn't want to shut down production. They didn't have the room and the budget. And they had to build like a new bridge. So like appendix doctors.

You can either have the flood or appendix surgery. You have to choose one or the other. He white knuckled it, knew something was wrong, but didn't understand the scale the scale of it and then once they had rap went to the doctor and they're like bro Your appendix has been shot for weeks That's fucking nuts. Yeah Yeah, you know movie did well like you know like we cost 22 million dollars makes about 70. Yeah worldwide 14 and good legs see so like good fucking multiplier 10 overseas And he also was just like that the thing I'm investing in is like these these are long-term investments Yes

You read a lot of these quotes that JJ pulled up and he's like the industry has become very obsessed with like opening weekends theatrical grosses DVD sales Them trying to algorithm out like how much this will do in whatever territory and he's like, you make a good movie, people come to it. It truly is. If you build it, they will come. He does this like moral thing. If the movie's a good object, it will continue to play and have value, which is why I'm willing to put my money into it. We just did Jerry Maguire again on the rewatchables and you know, his manifesto in the beginning of the movie is partially based on Katzenberg's Disney yeah that's what they wrote which is essentially the same thing Costner is

talking about which is like we're way too beholden to opening weekend now so the idea of a movie with legs and we used to like set these movies up so that they could run all summer and now we're like we're setting these movies up so that they can run for one weekend and if they fail like we're we're out of business like open range is a perfectly good example of a movie where it's just like we're like we're setting these movies up so that they can run for one weekend And if they fail like we're we're out of business Like open range is a perfectly good example of a movie where it's just like we're here 21 years later still talking about this thing Yeah, yeah, and I don't think it's just because of horizon like I think I'm a lot of people I know are like That's low-key one of the best Westerns in the last like 30 years. That's exactly it It's one of those movies that when you mention it

There are a certain amount, you know certain people just be like, oh well Open range is one of my favorite movies, right? Yeah, you know quietly Just kind of why I wanted to do them in the first place like all the other movies He did are the kind of bloated insane ego driven passion projects that clear or bounce that we like to cover on this show At the time open range is like a modest well-made like Character driven movie. That's what's wild. I mean, obviously, next week we will be talking

about Horizon, which we have not seen yet, and is the ultimate test of the balance, but as you said, he made two insane, bloated passion projects. Right, one hit, one fail. One a wild success, one a giant disaster, and then the third film is just this, like, reasonable, perfectly executed little masterpiece.

All right, we're gonna play the box office game, Chris. This film came out August 13th, sorry, August 15th, 2003. It opened number three, 14 mil, as you say. Good. Solid. Yeah, solid. But number one this week, we're gonna, Chris is gonna try and guess. I mean, feel free to guess if you want, Chris.

Is it your favorite movie? No. Are you talking about, say it. SWAT? So the film SWAT, a great film, Clark Johnson's SWAT, is number two. Okay. It opened last week.

Now that's a film that's on theaters. No drop-off for SWAT, yeah. SWAT's doing good business. People forget SWAT made. A clean million. 100 and 16 million dollars domestic. People forget SWAT made. A clean million. $116 million domestic. $116 million. $116.

Yeah. You do agree with me that SWAT fucks and slaps? Oh my God, yeah. More like slap weapons and tactics. SLAP. SLAP. SWAT, which is great, is number two. But no, number one is a horror movie.

Big sort of horror title. 2003. Yeah it's opening to 36. It's opening to 36. Like kind of blockbuster numbers for a big horror thing. Is it Freddy vs. Jason? Freddy vs. Jason. I mean talk about a great film. A movie I adore. How do you feel about Freddy vs. Jason? Was there a scream around there? This is kind of a dead period in between screams. I think scream 3 comes out early that... No, scream 3 is 2000. Scream 3 is 2000? Yeah, the screams come fast.

Like, and then it's... It's 97, 98, 2000. That's right. Yeah, and then 4 is 11. Yeah. Do you like Freddy vs. Jason, Chris? Of course, yeah. Yeah. You're a smart man. Yeah. Do you like Freddy versus Jason, Chris? Of course, yeah. Yeah.

You're a smart man. Yeah. Who wins again? Well, this is the story of my... I've seen that movie. I think Jason, right? It's like Jason, like Freddy, Jason wins, but then maybe Freddy's still alive, right? Like Jason drowns him in the lake.

The final shot of the movie is Jason rising from the water victorious. With his head. As they fought to the death in the water and the innocent teenagers, 20-somethings, have walked away. They're no longer at the scene of the crime. Jason rises victorious with the machete in hand. The other hand, Freddy's decapitated head. You think Jason's won.

As he walks towards the camera, Freddy's head winks. Right. Okay. So everyone wins. I think this is maybe a friend of a friend, but I've never forgotten this, who goes to see the film with his girlfriend. And the lights come up after that moment I just described, and she says, I don't get it, who won?

And he turns to her and says, the viewing public. And I just, I always think about that. The audience wins. Yeah. Yeah. The American viewing public We all won we all on August 15th 2003 a perfect Freddie fought Jason and blue bonnet fuck That Irish guy that dirty Irish landowner Who dared get too big for his britches out in Montana

Alright, so number two is SWAT number three is open range.. We're feasting right now. We're having a great time. Number four, it's a family comedy that is a big hit. Freaky Friday? Freaky Friday with Lindsay Lohan. Also soaring its way to a clean 100 mil, right? Yeah, and kind of another movie that I think the studio didn't see coming. No.

Kind of a dump. Kind of an afterthought. Kind of an afterthought, right. Yeah. There is an argument that in the soup of what made Jamie Lee Curtis quote-unquote Overdue for the Oscar she finally wins huge part of it freaky Friday's like 20% of there Yeah, that's one of the least really good people talk about that being a bad Oscar snub that she should have gotten a Best Actress nomination I'm going to go in the room now. Yeah

It's so weird that she won an Oscar for everything everywhere all at once. That's a really weird win. I think that's a really good performance. I think she's good in it. She's fine. I defend it. I feel like people get caught up on like, oh, she won because of narrative, and I think she's very good in that film. Who did she beat? I forget.

She beat Stephanie Hsu. She beat Angela Bassett for Wakanda Forever, which was the presumed front runner going into the night. Right, but eventually the Oscars were like, we're not fucking voting for the movie with Namor in it, like, for anything, sorry. And then the other two nominees were Kerry Condon. Yeah, who's kind of the critic pick.

It's incredible in that. Really good in that. And then who was the fifth person? Hong Chau in The Whale. I love that actor. One of my favorites. I'm happy she got an Oscar nod, but yeah, that's not a win there. Yeah. Number five at the box office, Griffin, is a family comedy as well.

Another family comedy. It's opening this week. It's kind of a bomb. From August 2003. It's sort of like a very, very, very mild camp classic. Very mild. Like, I know a few friends who kind of go to the map for this as like a good, stupid camp classic. Is it the Like I know a few friends who kind of go to the map for this as like

a good stupid camp classic. Is it the distributor of the picture? The distributor is MGM. I find folks at MGM. Yeah. In a real boom time for them. It's on sleepover, is it? No, I don't even know what that is. Oh, I do know what that is. That movie's actually like, all right.

Correll. No, come on. That's an 04 release. It's like an actress a name actress Oh, it's an actress And a kid. 2003. It's oh, it's Uptown Girls. Uptown Girls. Wow, you you ripped that out of the quiver great job Put that between Wait, fuck what's his name?

My fingers ready Between the eyes of um, I forgot his name already. What are you saying? The actor who gets shot in this movie. Oh Kim Coats Brittany Murphy Dakota Fanning never seen it. What is it? It's like a She's a nanny and Dakota Fanning is kind of a pain in the ass. Yeah, something like that. She's type a Brittany Murphy's type C Number six Pirates of the Caribbean, going strong. Number seven, American Wedding, going fine actually. That's going fine.

Sure. Sea Biscuits in there. Pretty good movie. Oh yeah. Yeah. I feel like I've definitely seen. We all saw it. We all saw it. In 03. It was actually required.

It made $120. Yeah. These movies made money. Best picture. God damn it. America was humming. Yeah, you had to see Seabiscuit if you wanted to vote, actually. It's a box office weekend I'm obsessed with that we've weirdly never covered on this show.

Don't bring it up then. I think it's the last weekend of July was the first time in 2003, the first time in history that the top five movies all made more than $20 million. Yeah, you're right. And you're like, there was a fucking spread. Different audiences were being served and it was Seabiscuit, Cradle of Life, Spy Kids 3D, Game Over. Just doing a different box office game now.

Pirates of the Caribbean and whatever weekend. And is the other one a holdover? Bad Boys 2. Yeah. It's good times. Good times for America, except we were like mired in Iraq and it was actually terrible times for America. We need to believe in a horse.

Spy Kids 3D is number nine and Bad Boys 2 is number 10, just to close that out. So that is the box office for OpenRange and it does, yeah, it has a good run. Like obviously the end of August is pretty quiet. Yeah. Like, you know, coming up is like the medallion and Dickie Roberts child star.

So like there's space for Costner to graze. I mean look, in the Deadline article, Costner seems to imply that all in, hard production costs of The Four Horizons will end up being $100 million. Okay, I couldn't actually, I wanted to ask you about this. I was trying to parse this. Was he saying that it was $100 for the first two or for all four? I had always thought it was $100 for the first two and that quote made it sound like he has figured it out So all four will cost 100

He's also like I'm just gonna start shooting this at the end of May whether we have money or not So I don't know if he's the best accountant in the world My books I do think he should explore DTC direct to Costner, you know And you just like Costner plus cost her man and like if you're a dad, it's 10 bucks because like, you know, you'll pay it anyway. But like, you know, if you're if you're without children, you just find books. That's another there's such a do you think there's just like a live stream of him like chopping wood on cost or plus? He has that Fox Fox News Like the streamer like narrates America. It's American the national parks. It's like look at this. Look at this Eagle

Look at only here But you're right if there was like Stream of him just lacquering a table the most amazing thing Americans do is it act like they invented parks Yeah, it is so insane that they conquered this country killed the people in it And then they're like and then we have the idea of open parks We have the idea of not drilling here We'll drill right next to it, but not right here They want credit for both colonializing and choosing to not fucking assholes disrupt certain spaces of nature

There's a quote in the Deadline thing where he says something to the effect of like, like, look, I'm not driven by the opening weekend because some of my audience, they can't really, uh, like leave the house. And you can hear him talking around. I don't want to say a lot of my core base is 90. Yeah. He also says like, Hey, the DVD market is still there. And I'm like, yeah sure for your audience. It's smart because Flemming makes this offhand comment of like well profits went down because DVD went around and he's like my audience buys DVDs.

Not a Blu-ray. They're 90, they're going to send their grandson to Walmart to buy them Horizon Part 1 in October. That's the long play. He knows what he's doing. He knows what he's doing. He knows what he's doing. We're done. Wrap us up Griffin. CR. Anything you want to plug. Rewatchables. Rewatchables the watch. I'm on the big picture with some frequency. They're in the rotation. Yeah. It's just fantastic to be here guys. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you for

making the time. It's amazing to have you after all these years it had sort of been on our agenda Especially after we did the the legal draft on big picture Oh, yeah That you were part of and we were sort of like scrounging around and then we committed to Costner and I had there was an aha moment Day, yeah, but right just turned to Dave and I said we should obviously ask CR to do open room We're gonna get you back sooner than you know, please do nine years. Yes Thank you for coming. Do you got any strong opinions on riding cars with boys? No, I'd not to spoil our next many cities. Yeah

We're not doing penny Marshall next are we not stop beating our audience All right, wrap us up, please. Thank you for being here Chris and thank you all for listening Please remember to rate review and subscribe. Thank you for being here, Chris. And thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for helping to produce the show. Thank you to AJ McKeon for editing. AJ McKeon is also our production coordinator. Thank you to Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song.

Thank you to KC and the Modern West for the theme song of America. Thank you to JJ Burch for our research. He put so many good paragraph long Costner quotes in the dossier that we might need to ask Marie to just screenshot some of them. Because if we just read every cool thing Costner ever said, we wouldn't have our own opinions on this episode. Thank you to Pat Reynolds, Joe Bowen for our artwork. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit including our patreon blank check special features where we are

Doing tabletop games. Yeah, we are we're doing God, what are we doing coming out around this time? Yeah, we're water world will be up on one world to water world Yes, listen to water for right episode. Yes. Yep That that will be a great one. I think Tune in next week for Horizon colon and American Saga part one a film that at the time of this release will have been out for a month and we Have yet to see we might be doing trap next week. Oh, you're right Trap, we're taking a little break. We're doing that just a little interrupt us

We have to figure out the timing of the the two horizons and trap, but that's what we're doing that. We're taking just a little interruptus. We have to figure out the timing of the two horizons and trap. But that's what we're doing. Yeah. All right. And? And as always, Kevin Costner is America's daddy. Yeah. All right.