Blank Check with Griffin & David - Scent of a Woman with David Krumholtz

Episode Date: June 30, 2024

Warning - this episode contains an ungodly amount of Pacino impressions. Listener discretion is advised. “Actor’s actor” and local boy from Queens David Krumholtz becomes the second cast member of Oppenheimer and first person immortalized in Griffin’s beloved Disney Emoji Blitz to guest on our Martin Brest series as we talk about 1992’s dire SCENT OF A WOMAN. Would this movie be less terrible if it were at least 40 minutes shorter? What if the original first choice for Lt. Col. Frank Slade - Jack Nicholson - had done this film instead of Pacino? What if we swapped Philip Seymour Hoffman for the charisma vacuum that is Chris O’Donnell? Sadly, we can only imagine these scenarios. Join us for lots of candid Krumholtz anecdotes, a scorching hot take regarding the diner scene in Heat, and more! Check out David in Lousy Carter  Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! 

Blackjack with Griffin and David Blackjack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blackjack Women! What can you say? Who made them? God must have been a fucking genius! The hair, they say the hair is everything you know. Have you ever bared your nose in a mountain of curls? Just wanted to go to sleep forever? Lips! When they touched yours were like the first swallow of wine after you just crossed the desert. Tits! Ooh-ah! Big ones, little just crossed the desert. Tits. Ooh-ah! Big ones. Little ones. Nipples staring right at you. Like secret searchlights. Mm-hmm. Lakes. I don't care if they're Greek columns or second-hand

starways. What's between them? Passport to heaven. I need a drink. Yes, Mr. Sims. There are only two syllables in this whole wide world worth hearing. Podcast. Why is your Pacino Southern? I was just- He's Southern in the movie. I know. And also I just want to say- Mr. Sims, what are you talking about?

You're putting more foghorn like corn on it than he did. I say, I say. I don't think you can help but sound like the Muppet Telly from Sesame Street. A great Muppet. A great Muppet, one of the undersung Muppets. One of the undersung Muppets. Who was in a lot of stuff. I have a young daughter,

I'm watching a lot of Sesame Street and I feel like Telly doesn't get his credit. No, Telly's in everything. Yeah. Telly is like first draft, like first round draft pick. I agree. Muppet that no one ever kind of puts on that. He's the Wade Boggs of

Sesame Street. Absolutely he is. He gets on base almost every time. You know what I mean? Telly gets on base. Yeah, Telly is amazing and that did sound more like Telly, a southern Telly, but I liked it. I before this started said get ready for the best impression you've ever heard and you took me at face value and you went Oh, I didn't know you did impressions. I really did. Yeah. Well, you do, you do do some good impressions. I do a couple good ones. I do think you've never had Pacino really in your pocket. Roger, Roger!

What's going on? That was an early bit, right? Well, yeah, you would do him in Insomnia. Insomnia is the one I like doing. I can't do tired Pacino. She's very gravelly. Let me sleep. Let me sleep.

That's not bad. It's not bad, but that's very tired. I do a Pacino, but I don't want to. What's tired Pacino. She's very gravelly. Let me sleep. Let me sleep. That's not bad. It's not bad, but that's very tired. I do a Pacino, but I don't wanna. What's your Pacino? You gotta, now you gotta do it. I don't know, like from Carlito's way, that last, that last monologue.

Do it. The voiceover. A little taste. There he goes. Late night, gonna stretch me out in Fernandez funeral home on 9th Street. Always knew I'd make a stop there, but a whole

lot sooner than a gang of people thought. Last of the poor weekends. Well, maybe not the last. Late night. Sun's coming up. Where we going for breakfast? Don't want to go far. Late night. Tired, baby. Tired. I mean, the best line in the movie. I just want to say, you weren't looking at anything. That was verbatim. That was in my head. Off the dome. I...

That movie is one year after Sense of a Woman. So he's got a little bit of scent left. Yeah, he's got a little scent left in him. Because this is like an actress doing Blanche Dubois. We've, yes. We've used this as an example before. Once an actress plays Blanche in Streetcar, you see it in their performance for a year. You know, Cate Blanche Dubois. We've used this as an example before. Once an actress plays Blanche in Streetcar, you see it in their performance for a year.

Kate Blanche at Lang. There's at least 10% that they hold onto for the rest of their career. There's no doubt. We can all agree that Scarface, playing Scarface, kind of transmogrified Pacino into late, you know, eighties and late eighties and early nineties Pacino, which was at a certain point unbearable. Here's my question. Yes.

And we're gonna talk so much about Pacino's performing style, obviously. Yes, yeah. You say early nineties, but then late nineties, you've got Devil's Advocate and Even Sunday, where he is like, Completely. really completely out of control. Heat sort of works. I mean honestly all three of those movies sort of works. Well, he doesn't, there's an interview, he did like a 92nd Street Y interview to talk about Wag the Dog. The Nero and Barrowland. And in the interview he talks about, or maybe he's talking about heat. Is he just talking about, yeah.

But I think it's Mwag the dog, and randomly they ask him about heat. Regardless, he admits that he was coked up the entire time he shot heat. And for years he would say that was my characterization. Yeah, I'm playing him like he's on coke. I can't figure out his psychology. But that was Scarface, right?

It ruined him in a weird way. In a lot of ways, yes. I mean, it is what is fascinating about Pacino, is what is fascinating about this movie, and certainly this movie, being positioned as and becoming the final sort of like, anointment, the long overdue here's his moment, just looking at the fucking poster for this movie.

And the poster for this movie has the energy of, you're gonna give him the fucking poster for this movie. And the poster for this movie has the energy of, you're gonna give him the fucking Oscar for this. There's a certain arrogance to the poster. Or a sense of like, fate of company. And it's his, the letters in his name are so spaced out. It's just last name. You probably remember. Yes, I do.

Of course. But I'll tell you this. Yeah, please. I get it. I, as an actor, I get it. And I'll tell you why. Yeah, please. I get it. I, as an actor, I get it and I'll tell you why I get it. I think he got bored and paranoid, which the cocaine might have helped with that. He had an 80s and making flops. Very weird 80s, which we'll talk about. Frankie and Johnny, he felt, I think, that the dog day afternoon guy,

that that guy was a one note thing. And I think he got paranoid, he became more and more famous, and he's thinking, hey, I gotta blow it up. Then he goes and does Scarface and people go, oh my God, and he gets all this street cred for it. And he thinks that's the real deal. Right. And people kind of mock the performance at the time, at least in like critical circles.

But yes, it's like a huge cultural impact. And then ultimately people come all the way around to like, I guess this movie's a classic. He was paranoid. I think that he wasn't showing enough range in his work. And that's what he respected in other actors. The problem is he hadn't hit the realization that I think De Niro hit early on, which is like, oh, as long as I'm the most natural delivery actor in the history of acting, I can do

anything as long as I just do that. Through every performance, I can play any role and I can do anything as long as I just do that. Through every performance. I can play any role and I can do comedy, I can do drama, as long as I just trust that people love my essence and as long as I'm just as natural as I can be. And I don't think Pacino ever came to that realization or maybe hasn't until like recently.

But also by 1980, De Niro has won two Oscars. Pacino has won zero. Correct. He's given several of the greatest screen performances in history. And there's no doubt that Pacino feels competitive with De Niro. Of course. And he starts to feel like, am I too subtle? Like, is my thing too small? Like, he's kind of like letting other people score in movies where every actor is like

he's the guy, but the Academy refuses to award him. I can see him sitting down prior to filming Scent of a Woman and saying to the producers, I want to leave no stone unturned. I want to make it without a doubt that this is the greatest performance. It's a really good impression. You know, you got it. You know what I mean? Yes. Yes, sir. Show Griffin. And then I want to continue this line of talking. This is a blank check with Griffin and David.

Here's the other big discovery I made the other night. I rewatched Tropic Thunder on a whim a couple of nights ago. I hadn't seen it in a while. And then rewatching this movie today, I was like, Danny Jr. sounds a lot like Sensible and Pachino. He's his quote unquote black voice. I'm a dude! Playing another dude.

Right. Yeah. It's a podcast about filmography. Directors who have early success! You really lose it the longer you go in it. It just goes on in their careers. It's totally telly. Giving us a blank chance. Make whatever crazy passion projects they want. You're also doing

kind of William Shatnerian like, you know, so that's right. Yeah. And sometimes they bounce baby. I don't even know what that is. Bounce baby. It's a main series on the films of Martin Brest. Yeah, Martin Brest. We're right in the middle of his career here. Who directed one of the great films, one of my favorite films. Midnight Run. Oh yeah, undoubted. One of the perfect films. It's a very-

Perfect film. A very you movie too. Oh my God. I learned so much watching that film. You learn everything from that. Everyone I have told we were doing- It's his best movie. Martin Brest has that response where they just go,

well that's just an unbelievable movie. Midnight. Night. Yeah. It holds up so well. It'll never, that's just an unbelievable night. Yeah. It holds up so well. It'll never, that's a timeless movie. And gets better every time I watch it. As you said, like it's a movie you can study

and you go, it's all in here. Everything you need to know about the craft of commercial filmmaking is in this film. It's perfection. And De Niro is so funny. Unbelievable. So he's got, you know, De Niro sat there and was like, shit, they're pairing me up with Charles Grodin. He's one of the funniest people ever. How am I

not going to get buried by this guy? And he was like, you know, and I got a comedic bone in my body, comedic bone or two. But that's like, and then he kind of is funnier than Charles Grodin in the movie. He's also at his, at his handsomest, I think. He's so hot. He's really hot in that movie. I mean, we will have talked about it last week. But this is Poverly Hills cast. Oh yeah, right. That's what the Poverly Hills cast is about. The films of Martin Brest.

This is a very weird inflection point in his career. He is a guy who sort of has a clear demarcation point. Up and down. Yeah. Even though this movie was a hit. He also directed G. Lee, right? That's the one that kicks him out of the industry. Right.

Jesus Christ. Right up. This thing that happens with a lot of these guys, the most successful comedy directors in Hollywood, who go like, I want to get serious. I want to make a comedy that makes you cry. I want to go Tony. I also think this is the this is the dead poet society era

where it's like these kinds of movies are hot. A tum-no. A meaningful, a tum- Right, give me a Thomas Newman score. Give me a prep school setting, like, you know, someone's going to learn a lesson. But there's something like this, I was watching this and I was like, you know what?

Green Book winning best picture has a lot to do with, I think, a certain percentage of the Academy having nostalgia for this exact era of Oscar bait. Right. The kind of like light drama. Awakenings. Right. Which is not a light drama, but has some funny, says Robin Williams. It's a funny drama. It's a light touch. Right. It's like a movie where you're like, you know what it's thought of? Because Green Book's got a light touch. That movie is. Sorry, keep going. No, all these movies are, if you look at them, kind of insane.

This movie is crazy. But they're like, right, filmmakers. This movie does not hold up. No, it doesn't. I'm glad you agree. It would be tough if you were coming in here being like, guys, I'm here to go to the movie. No, no, this movie really does not hold up. No, it doesn't at all. I was kind of hoping to like it more this time I looked at a little more this time than I remembered liking but I do not think it holds up the other crazy thing with the poster is it's like Pacino in these like dramatic spelled out spread out letters and then above it from the director of Beverly Hills Cup and then it's this like just two men walking through a leaf-strewn park Look, I have a friend who hasn't seen as many movies and sometimes oh, what do you watch? I'm watching sense of war

And she's like what that what's that about and I'm like Okay, here I go. Are you talking about your wife? No, although she's another one. Yeah, like where you're like, okay, okay, all right a kid in a prep school witnesses a prank. It is such a hard movie to describe. Witnesses a prank and is weighing whether or not to snitch on his friend. Meanwhile, he's accepted a job completely unrelated to anything else as a caretaker for a horny blind veteran who whisks him off to a suicide journey in New York. Gotta get pussy and shoot myself. These two potlings have nothing to do with each other, but the movie at the end is like,

well, they're gonna have to. We're pushing them together. The Pacino Pussy Suicide Weekend is a full 90 minutes, and then there's basically a half hour before and after that. Sort of like a Alexander Payne-, you know, kind of social dramedy. Of just the fucking intrigue of the balloon prank and the court proceedings. There is a 40 minute disciplinary procedure in this movie that's literally just Redborne going like,

now be honest, what did you see? I don't know. Be honest, I don't know. Over and over again. I like that they sat, that Martin sat there with his casting directors and the producers, and they said, okay, they're telling us we gotta cast this kid, Chris O'Donnell.

We gotta cast him. We have no choice. He's the hot kid. He's not the most captivating actor. But this is also famously one of those movies where everyone was up for it. Everyone wanted this part so badly. But we're gonna cast him as the protagonist. famously one of those movies where everyone was up for it. Everyone wanted this part so badly. But we're gonna cast him as the protagonist.

We need an antagonist who's not gonna blow him out of the water as an actor. You don't want people rooting for the bad guy. And they go, there's this other kid. His name is Philip Seymour Hawthorne. Real piece of shit. And we think he's good, there's potential, but maybe dead behind the eyes. I'm not sure

It's kind of scary vibes. You know plays the pain but kind of I think I think they'll match up I think they'll have amazing chemistry Chris O'Donnell and similar careers Phillips Seymour Hoffman smoked off. I'm gonna throw this out immediately Yeah, what if you swap them? What if you swap a man? if you swap him, man? Yes! Because like O'Donnell in this movie, it is, you're watching two hours of a kid in a mop haircut going like, but Colonel, like, you hate the handsome guy.

Let's acknowledge that. He has no character. He has no character at all. I hate that there is no character here. Besides nice kid. But she knows basically like loading a gun and being like, did you get the hookers yet? And O'Donnell's like, what are we doing here? Hoffman might be amazing.

And O'Donnell's would be a great preppy bully. This exact same script with the two of them flipped, I'm like, it's probably a three and a half star for me instead of a two and a half. No, it's too long. This movie is- This is a rough movie. This movie is a rough movie.

It's a rough movie. The Pacino-ish, I love, look, I love Al Pacino. Me too! But my God, he's so out of control in this. This is why we're excited to have you on. And I'll be dead honest with you. Yes. I saw the film and thought,

that's one of the greatest performances I've ever seen. This is why, okay, so our guest today. I really did. Our guest today! But as I've gotten older, go ahead. Introduce our guest. One of our White Whales of the podcast. White Whales.

We've wanted you on forever. Oh, I'm so happy to be here. So excited to finally make it happen. Yes, absolutely. I wonder if we should, is there any way, I wish you could take a live poll of who people think I am. Great question. Colin.

Al Pacino. Being very critical of his own career. Yes. This piece of shit. Introduce our guest, please. Here's what I'm trying to do in my head, the credits of which movies we have covered across the last nine years. We have covered a few of your movies. With the great David Krumholtz.

That's right. Because we have covered. Thank you. We covered on our Patreon, we covered the Santa Claus trilogy of which you were in the first two. Correct. Oppenheimer. That's the movie I'm in. The Judge.

Oh, you're in The Judge. I'm also in that film. Correct. You get your shoes peed on. Are you the villainous lawyer? To some extent. I mean like whatever. I'm trying to think if there are others that we've covered. I feel like there are.

There probably shouldn't be. Get out of here. Addams Family Values we have not covered as long promised. But that's a great film. David and I Contempt, one of the best comedies of the 90s. Period. That's a great film. It's David and I Contempt one of the best comedies of the 90s period period That's a great fucking movie. That's the film I've seen more than any other almost any other movie a sequel that is well well earlier than the first yes

Yes, the original is actually incredibly flawed movie, but I've made so many bad movies Terrible I'm sorry to bring it up. I shouldn't be shouldn't bring it up. You stabbed Kelly Martin, you jerk. What are you? Are you like a midwest housewife? I'm like 80 years old, 75 year old grandmother? No, I was a 10 year old boy who had a huge crush on Lucy Knight in ER. Okay, I was about to say, what's going on here? Ice storm? The ice storm, yes.

Did you do the ice storm? I covered the ice storm area. Great film. Very good. Uh, The Mexican? Oh yeah, The Mexican. We have not covered the Verbinski. That'll be in the Verbinski. We were talking about both. The Mexican. Oh yeah, the Mexican. We have not covered, but Verbinski.

That'll be in the Verbinski. We were talking about before. Was he nice? Off mic. Verbinski? I loved him, yeah. He seems cool, I don't know. His sweetheart.

Yeah. That might be the full. But I'm just looking at the list, there's a lot more that we need to get around to. Absolutely. You were in the film I saw on my first date. What's that? You wanna guess?

Harold and Kumar, go to White Castle? Great choice, but no, I was like 18 by then. I I saw on my first date. What's that? You want to guess? Harold and Kumar? Go to White Castle? Great choice, but no, I was like 18 by then. I've been on a few dates. Ten Things I Hate About You. Oh, I apologize. It's your first question. You guys have never done Ten Things I Hate About You.

We haven't. Well, yeah, we do directors. Gil Younger? Right. Gil Younger, yeah. Oh, you do directors. Right, like, I feel like we should, you know, we should squeeze that in somehow. What else has Gil Younger done?

Didn't he do Romeo and Michelle? No, not Romeo? No. Not Romeo and Michelle. No. He did something like that after. What did he do though? He did a Nier Vardalos movie, I want to say. Oh, did he do? The follow-up to My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

Did he do Connie and Carlin? No, I think he did... I don't know. My Life in a Ruins? No. I don't know. I don't know what he did. He did Black Knight, which I bet you Ben saw. Oh yeah, Black Knight.

Did you ever see Black Knight, the Martin Lawrence movie? Hell yeah. That's right, he did Black Knight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have talked about- He's got a lot of TV. Looks like he does a ton of TV. Doing a teen adaptation of Shakespeare series,

where that's where we could slot in 10 things. 10 things I hate about you, right? But the great David Cromwell. Hello. One of our favorite actors. I'm all right. 10 things I hate about you. But the great David Krumholm. Hello. One of our favorite actors. I'm all right. You're one of our favorites. And like 10 years ago, almost, I guess eight or nine,

we had just started doing the podcast. We were like, can we get anyone to guest on this show? Anyone. And I was on, I used to be a house team, I don't want to brag. I did make a house team. It was a mod team. It was a mod team.

A sketch. I did a show. Someone comes backstage and goes, David Krumholz wants to meet you. Well, that's right. Because I was struck by how talented you were. It was, you saw the one good show I had. Well, can I say something? Yeah.

All right. I'm going to say something that I don't think this is gonna be received well. Oh boy. If it's a compliment to me, our listeners are gonna hate it. No, no. It's I bristle at some improv stuff. I find the LA improv scene to be a little taxing. I'm sure it is. As compared to the New York. And when I say improv scene, I mean UCB. Yeah, yep. I have been doing, I've been a guest monologist at Ask Hat since I was 21 years old.

Wow. So 24 years. So I did it when it was Ian and Matt. You've seen the arrows. Amy, Horatio Sands, and Tina Fey. And then, later on, I took UCB 101, 201, and 301. I think this was when... Yeah, I was having to see shows.

Yes. And I also took a UCB writing course. I think that's when. Yeah, okay. And as a result, I think some of it gets stale. And in LA, it's very witty referential. It's very inside jokey. I'm gonna reference some random 80s movie

and you'll find that witty. People are just trying to book a sitcom out in LA. Right, and it's not the performers that bother me. It's the belly laughter from the crowd over a referential witty joke. Rather than, oh, that's clever, which is what I'm thinking, oh, that's clever. But nothing that would make me guffaw.

Right. Whereas New York, UCB, I tend to guffaw more, but not even that much, until I saw you. Well. And you made me fucking laugh hard. And I was like, look at this guy. He's breaking all the rules. You and Gil Ozeri are two guys that just go, fuck it. Fuck the high intelligence thing. Let's just fucking be funny.

See, you're dumb as rocks. I'm a fucking moron and I'm proud of it. It's the bag of hammers on stage. Crazy fun. It was the most successful sketch I ever had was the night you saw it and I was just like, God, for a guy I idolized so much, he couldn't have seen me on a better night, which made me feel really good, but it was a very dumb sketch about a physics professor who showed up to an English class.

Okay. Okay. Okay, I don't remember this. Everyone corrects him and they're like, actually I think you're in the wrong class. And he's like, oh my God, I am mortified. I am so sorry. A thousand apologies. And he walks out and then he just keeps walking into the class over and over again. You just do it 25 times.

And he just gets more and more irate about the embarrassment of it and then starts pretending he's a different person Yeah, because he's wearing a different hat But it's truly just repeating the same thing over and over again. It felt classic and mad It was very silly and crazy and I wish there was more of that And that's what there used to be in the early days of UCB. We met, you were very nice to me. I go into record with Ben and David the next day, I'm like, we're getting fucking crumholed on the podcast. Yeah.

I'm telling you, this is an easy booking. But you never asked. Did you ask? I don't think I asked. You never asked. I think I tweeted at you. We don't need to litigate this too much, Griffin. We don't need to litigate.

The point is I've wanted you on forever forever and then over the years you and I Have like reconnected reconvened. We're also Maybe the only two male actors. This is true That came out. Yes against Woody Allen during me too who had worked on on movies They are simpatico in that regard. There are these things that would like together You did George Lucas talk show a year or two ago, and then we did our Oppenheimer episode. But you're not on that, it's that guy Wado.

That's true. We did competing Wados. I was in the audience, I saw it. Yes. You do a very good Wado. So do you. You do an excellent Wado! But then you messaged me when we did our Oppenheimer episode

and sang your praises, and I was like, I'm fucking straight, we gotta do this. That's a good movie. Thank you so much. I forgot to have youises. And I was like, I'm fucking straight. We got it. We got it. Very sweet. Thank you so much. I know you've been doing the. No, you know what? To be honest with you, shit, I'm sick of hearing myself talk about myself. All right. Then let's talk about Al Pacino.

I send you a list of some of those things. Yeah, right. We're doing this. We got coming up. Yeah. And you were like, sent of a woman. And I say this to David and he's like he'll be perfect for that as a dude who was a working actor in the 90s Because of and I feel like you're setting all this up what this movie represented as like this is acting This is the new act. This is the peak of prestige Studio filmmaking. This is the best actor sort of mentoring a younger generation below. So happy when he won the Academy Award felt like it was so deserved. You

watched that fucking ceremony and people are like we did it it's like Obama winning the presidency. We finally broke it down. And then three years ago yeah I revisit the film at home. Sure just randomly. Of course, it comes on or whatever. And I cannot believe how bad it is. It is insane. I cannot believe it. It is insane and it has that thing like Green Book

where you like describe scenes to people and you're like, and this movie was like taken seriously. This is like people cried and it got like a standing ovation at the Oscars. You see, I was too young to be aware of that. Was this a movie that moved people? Oh, it was a huge thing. It was a big movie.

I know that. I remember it being like hands down the best performance of the year. The movie was treated as a very sort of sweet and profound exploration of human frailty and whatever the fuck. It's really hard to imagine. And like you said, those were the kinds of movies that were being made, awakenings, human frailty movies. Yes, and Penny Marshall.

It was about well-meaning people that get screwed by life somehow. Penny Marshall, another example, right? Like Peter Fairley, David Zucker, these guys who are like big comedy directors, and then they're like, I'm- Let me shift half into drama.

Let me shift. You know who never did that? Who? As far as I know. Well, he kinda did it, but he didn't do it into, oh, well, we shouldn't bring this up. Who are you gonna say? The greatest comedy director of all time.

The greatest comedic film director of all time. Not Samuel Brooks, never talk about him. John Landis. Yeah, sure. Now, Landis did the Twilight Zone movie, which is not necessarily drama, it's creepy, sci-fi, horror, or shot thriller. And we all know what happened with that situation. But he never said, and he never said, you know, I should do a drama. He never did his strike at sort of like prestige, legitimacy.

I met John Landis at a dog park and I flipped the fuck out. Yeah. And I showered him with gratitude. Yeah. And it was as if no one had said that to him in like a decade. Really? And I thought that was so wrong. Yes, I know he got written off because of what happened on the Twilight Zone.

Which, really, how much can you blame him for that? Probably a good chunk, but not like the whole way. You can't give him...regardless. Come on. His legend there undirected. Miracle, insane. Insane. But you're right, he never did the shift. Correct.

Yeah. Which I feel like these guys kind of always do at some point. It's the classic like, you know, I kind of made it to the top of the mountain, but there's something I don't have. Let me show them what else I could do. There's a final bit of respect that only gets anointed. And this in Green Book and like Awakenings have that thing where you're like, well, they're like, quote unquote serious emotional dramas with like heavyweight actors.

But then you watch them and you're like a lot of this stuff on paper feels like bizarre, ribald comedy. Well, but but let's talk about what happened after sort of the Bill Murray, Eddie Murphy thing. Yeah. Is dramedies. Yes. Big. Right.

80s, like a huge decade for like out-and-out comedy. Right, a league of their own. Yes. Okay. So you've got these funny movies that are comedies, marketed as comedies, but they have tremendous heart. Fried green tomatoes. Yes.

Okay. And they, not only that, these are movies that are hugely successful. They make a lot of money. They drive cultural. They're like, how does product that the major studios are putting out? Correct. Yes. Not made any no one makes those movies.

No, they don't exist. No, this is my take on Green Book. It's a certain percentage of people were just like, fuck, I miss this being the thing 25 years ago. I'm voting for this. This doesn't happen anymore. Right. It is interesting to consider,

was Tom Hanks single-handedly the transition point there? Like him going from bachelor party to big as a bridge to League of Our own to Philadelphia. Not just creates a roadmap that other actors are following but almost like directors are following and sort of like we'll build something around a guy like this at a transition point. You know?

Well, here's the thing, battery's not included. Another movie, another comedy about robots, alien robots, but very sweet. Here's the thing. How many directors can really show range in their choices? Very few. And if anything, it's comedy to drama, right? It's always either drama to comedy or comedy to drama. Rob Reiner, another example of what we're talking about. Another great example.

Yeah. Another great example. But then the... But then there's like Spielberg, who has gone out of his way to direct every genre and kind of kicks ass at all of them. Yeah. And I feel like at some point you just gotta go,

well, he's in his own lane. He's, that's, it's not achievable. Yes. So if I'm a comedy, if I've banged banged if I banged up five straight hit comedies I'm sticking with comedy. I'm not if someone comes to me and goes alright. Listen, there's a story It's a light-hearted story about a cancer. She's a teacher at an elementary. She has cancer and The guy comes in and say, you know, I'm thinking I'm not gonna do it. Yeah, I'm not I'm thinking, I'm not gonna do it.

I'm not gonna go there. I'm not gonna direct that movie. I see the draw, and then yet, I don't know. Even if it's in the zeitgeist, I wouldn't have done it. It's also after a gap, but it is wild that this is the movie that comes directly after Midnight Run, when he's basically perfected his thing. I wanna say two things.

One, the thing that Spielberg is worst at is out and out comedy. Not that he's bad at it exactly. He makes lots of funny movies, but 1941 and The Terminal are his two biggest kind of comedy swings. And neither of them totally work. Cast me if you can a little bit as kind of like. You can love. But that's got all his divorce, sad, Christmassy stuff.

The other thing, Unreleased, Midnight Run. I love Midnight Run. I got no beef with that movie. It's one of my favorite movies. But it is two hours and six minutes long. The runtime creep is starting to happen. And right. And maybe he's feeling like, yes, I can get an extra hour of that movie.

Whereas this movie... Marvin Dorfler? This movie, and I'm's feeling like, yeah, I could get an extra hour of that movie. Whereas this movie... Marvin Dorfler? This movie, and I'm seeing this right here, this Sense of a Woman is 400 hours long. It is the longest film ever. Well, and Tell Me, Joe Black, which is 800 hours long. And this is not a movie where you're like, yeah, no, but this is a Rumi story.

This is the opposite of a Rumi story. But this is what I'm saying. This movie could start with Chris O'Donnell showing up for the interview and end with saying goodbye to Al Pacino in the car. And you're like, okay, that's like a RWBY, like hour 40 minutes or whatever. There was 30 minutes on either end of just the school shit.

Right, well the second, toward the latter end, it's the trial. Which is insane that this movie turns into a kangaroo court, where James Redborn basically comes out and goes, now I want to make it clear actually none of this means anything. I just set up some desks in our biggest venue, our biggest lecture hall. What does he say? Vecino?

Someone ought to burn this place to the ground or something like that, right? He says that and eight other things. Reb Horn is like, I want to make it clear. What is on trial today is the moral fiber of our country. This case is a microcosm. And once again, I'm not a judge. Yeah, and this is, no one's accused of any crimes.

That's the weirdest thing. He's like, I'll be a lawyer! We will put on trial the two supposed witnesses, not even the people who did the thing! I feel like the direction to Philip Seymour Hoffman during the trial scene is, okay, now we're in the trial scene, right? You know you're fucked.

So like, play it so that you play that we know you're sad. Like, oh, the jig is up and you're caught. Because if you watch a movie, he's so obnoxious through the whole film. I actually remember watching that film and hating him in that movie. And being like, he's not a good actor. He's overacting, all this stuff.

And then the trial stuff, he's just morose. He's just, and it's almost like, play sad. And he just kind of literally makes a frowning face. And I thought, oh, this is all not great acting, in my opinion, especially with Pacino there. You know, how can you give such a shit performance when Pacino is kicking ass? Years later, you watch the film, Seymour Hoffman's brilliant.

Pacino is outrageously silly and, and, and way out. Pachino is at his worst in that scene because you're like, okay, well he's here. So he's going to say something really interesting to turn this all around. And so he's just like, this is out of order. This boy's all right. He doesn't need you. Fuck you. And you're just like, that's it. That's his whole argument. And red board is just kind of like, Oh, who are you again? Do you find the boys? How do we get across? How do we get across that being blind sucks?

I think we should have him just scream. I'm in the dark here. I'm in the dark because you know why? Because when you're blind, you can't see and it's like you're in the dark. So I think that's a really great way. I'm in the dark! I'm in the dark! I've been watching obsessively all of like,

Michael Keaton's recent press tour for his movie, Knux Goes Away that he directed. And obviously most of these interviews he's doing for his independent film, all anyone wants to ask him about is just Batman and Beetlejuice over and over again. Right, so most of these interviews have become about Beetlejuice and he just keeps saying things to the effect of like, the thing I loved about Beetlejuice as a character

that made me want to return to it all these decades later is you're just like, this is a character where nothing is out of bounds. You can get away with doing anything. This guy has no rules, you can't go too big, you could swerve at any moment, it felt very free. It's basically it basically a cartoon Totally where you can where there's no rules to there's no human rules to nothing nothing human holding him That's the magic of that performance as you feel his boundless energy and imagination and everything he does is funny But also he reduces in 20 minutes of that movie and despite being the title character, he is in no way the movie

The movie's narrative spine. It is not hung on him. He comes in he's color He like throws some chaos and he disappears again for a stretch of the movie But you know is in full Beetlejuice mode in this movie where he's like, okay, so I'm blind I can do anything That's right. This there's nothing I could do that would be out of character Martin I was thinking last night. Thinking about if he's blind, he's got to have super hearing. What if I can hear conversations taking place in other scenes that I'm not in? I can hear the time.

So Chris O'Donnell shows up and I say, I know you talked about me in the last scene you was in. He can hear facial gestures. He can hear your face move. Yes. He can hear Chris O'Donnell's background. He knows what his parents did. Unprune, unprune your chin, young man. How did you find this out?

You're on fucking Wikipedia. Oh my God. Mom and pop. Stop. It's amazing. It's insane. And look, look, I have learned from experience that you can be a great actor,

but if you have an intimate scene with someone who's not, it can make you sort of overplay, overcompensate for what's not there. In Pacino's defense, and look, and I'm, and look, Chris O'Donnell's probably a wonderful human being. This man is not an actor. This man was never an actor, continues not to be an actor of any merit.

No one has ever, there isn't a single scene in the Chris O'Donnell filmography that someone says, wow, he really surprised me. And he knows it, he knows it. The irony is this is, I think, literally his peak as an actor, not in terms of my opinion of his performance, but just in terms of Hollywood being like, is this gonna be a guy?

We're all in on this guy? You got a Golden Globe nomination? Let's talk about the movie that this movie, basically the studios went, we need another movie like this, and made Sen of a Woman, Rain Man. Rain Man, you've got an autistic, another example of what we're talking about. Here he is. Went from writing Mel Brooks movies to then making people cry.

Cruz is the handsome guy who's amazing in that movie. Cruz is the better performer. He's elected. One of the best performances Cruz ever's given. It's the reason that movie works is Cruz, not Hoffman. Correct. Yes. Correct, Amundo. The first time you watch it though, you are mesmerized by what Hoffman is doing

and the mystery of that character. I mean, I don't love Rayman. And Rayman's fine. I think Rayman's pretty good. It's pretty good. It's a pretty watchable movie, and it has stakes to it. And it's very sad. And his performance is really hard to swallow.

And they have a real bond. Whereas if this O'Donnell really just kind of feels like he's like, I got this horny grandpa on my... I don't know what to do with him. And why did this happen to me? And then once in a while he's like, what's going on with the snitch situation? He's like, maybe I'm gonna get out of it.

Okay, let's drive a Lambo. Like, I mean, it's just back to the other plot. When I watch interviews like, interviews now with the guys of, like, Chris O'Donnell's class, his generation, right? Like, mostly, like, the School Ties group. But when any of those guys do, like, retrospective interviews, Damon, Affleck, Fraser, Wahlberg, DiCaprio,

like, all those guys who became A-listers, all talk about in the 90s, they were just like, we're losing every fucking part to O'Donnell. You get into the audition room, it was always the 10 of us, we'd see each other, and O'Donnell was just unstoppable. It's school ties this, he's in Fried Green Tomatoes. He is in Fried Green Tomatoes. And then the year after this, he's in The Three Musketeers,

a film I certainly saw in theaters. And then eventually he's Robin. And I think to them... Within two years he's Robin. Right, they're like, he got the brass ring. He's a superhero now. He's leveled up in a way none of us can ever imagine. Which back then wasn't a common thing. No, there were...

Yeah. One of these parts emerges once a decade? You're not going to get many shots at this. And then it's weird that his career basically is then over Well, he's on NCIS Working right but like even and obviously Batman and Robin has like such a negative response But it's like right then he's doing vertical limit then it's like, okay. He's like a B action star now You know and he's going to TV

I'm opening our dossier of research here. So as you guys may know, this is based on an Italian film, a novel, a woman adapted into a film turned into a 70s Italian film by Dino Ricci, who's, you know, a celebrated Italian comic director, the actor, one best actor at the Cannes Film Festival. The movie was nominated for the Oscar for Foreign Film and Screenplay got to Oscar Foreign Film and Screenplay.

Got two Oscar. Yeah, screenplay. Exactly. And Breast saw this movie and loved it in at the time. Yes. Like it was stuck in his mind back when Breast is basically, you know, a, a, a FI student in the mid seventies. This movie seems vaguely unwatchable now. I was trying to find it. You mean hard to watch. I could not find it anywhere, in any form. But I was reading up on it as much as I could. And that film's plot seems to be a lot more straightforward. It is like, he is a military veteran, he hires a kid to help bring him to visit one of the other men he served with.

Oh! Totally different movie. And then it is revealed that he has the suicide pact. That this is like the final trip, the weekend, I want to know a woman one final time and then I'm gonna shoot myself. All the fucking school shit, this narrative around the escort kid, like none of that's in there. Seemingly. It's very interesting and I think that movie is a little more overtly comedic while being a little tragic comedic, but it's like a tell your country side Roberto Benigni the veteran That's a good question. That'd be amazing. He would be good and he was he was around in How do you say I'm in the dark here in Italian?

How would be nice? Yeah Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no too. Sure. The charming, subtle, cuteness, adorableness of Gabrielle Enmore. Well, she's great at the scene. Who is sublime on film. Right. And doesn't have to do much. No. She's very cute.

She's very sweet. She's very genuine and natural. She's in the For the Love of money with Michael J. Fox She's the female lead in that's not a great movie, but you know, she's doing good She's a cute fell off the face of the earth. Yeah We all forget she was on burn notice of course her seven seasons like you know She's that's a USA show that was a USA Network or TNT or one of those according to her INDB trivia, she once held the record in the Guinness Book for World's Fastest Talker. Really?

Yeah. Isn't that bizarre? Was that like a movie? Faster than the Micro Machines guy? She competed against auctioneers, sports announcers, etc. And the Micro Machines guy. If he didn't show, sports announcers, etc. And the Micro Machines guy. If he didn't show, I would contest that. Yeah, no, no, exactly. If he wasn't at those, yeah.

Because the Micro Machines guy is, and Buster Rimes. And Buster Rimes. Buster Rimes, very good. Alright, so Brest loves the movie. He finds out the rights are available. He's casting around for something to do after midnight run, right? You know, the man takes his time. Right. Five years in between the two films?

Yeah. Yeah. Four? I mean, that range's 88, isn't it? Or is it 87? I thought it was 87. It's 88. Okay, four years.

In the sense of what it was in 1992. Yeah. But basically, he's completely drawn to this. He brings in Bo Goldman, who is an Academy Award winning screenwriter. He wrote One Float Over the Cuckoo's Nest. He wrote Melvin and Howard. And may I say it's not a bad script?

No. It's not a bad script. It's not a great script, but it is not a bad script. No. The dialogue is strong. Yeah. He certainly asks, yes, sort of, and he basically is like, look, adapt this movie, but vaguely. Like, you can do what you want.

I really am just interested in that idea of the central character, the blind veteran. He watches the movie and Goldman says, you know, who served in the army, served in the Marshall Islands after graduating from Princeton. He's like, I remember my first sergeant in the army. I remember my long lost brother who became an alcoholic and had a tragic life and like I Sort of combine these characters together to make Al Pacino. Like that's what he's doing. He says, okay this kind of like lost Character and this like intense drill sergeant character. He's merging into one person. Okay, so that's interesting Goldman writes it for Nicholson.

It makes sense. It would have been incredible. Right. And like you can imagine there's some sort of last detail in there, right? Like, you know, what about let's check in with that guy. Right. Twenty years later. Right. Combined with I obviously that

comes later. We combine with what he later does with Colonel Jessup. You know, you could see him finding the midpoint between the two. Absolutely. Blind Nicholson wearing sunglasses Hitting on women in the streets of New York City the movie sells itself. It's a huge hit It's a huge hit Nicholson doesn't want to do it or is unavailable

I'm not really sure what Nicholson's doing in the early 90s But I feel like it's a sort of an odd period for him right like isn't that when he directs a movie? Yeah, Mars attacks Later Well, no Jake's early 90s isn't to Jake's yeah, that's 1990 The Jackson movie. Yeah. Mars Attacks. That's a little later. That's a little later. Is it 2 Jakes? Early 90s? Isn't 2 Jakes? Yeah, that's 1990.

You know, he's doing his own stuff, I guess. So Pacino comes in. Now, he doesn't make sense for this character. The Witches of Eastwick. Go on. Great movie. We can help you on this show. Pacino is not really giving military like I would say.

But here's another example. Pacino is looking over as his contemporary Jack Nicholson, who at this point also has two Oscars. Like if you're Pacino, you're like Hackman's got two. Nicholson's got two. DeNiro's got two. DeVall's got one. OK, so now here's something I learned working with Alan Arkin. The great. Okay, and I brought this up on another podcast, but it bears repeating. Alan Arkin, he was unabashed, bashed,

about saying he wanted to win an Academy Award. At 65 years old, he was upset that he had not won. Not just, he had been nominated twice, but that he hadn't actually won one. And it really bothered him and it really bothered him It really bothers us when you were working on slums I thought to myself what a thing that is to care that much to care that much that your willingness It's slightly embarrassing to go out and say yeah, but I wish I won an award

Yeah, I'm a great actor and all but I wish I'd won an award for it Right is kind of embarrassing but I think these guys think like that. And so you're right, Griffin. He probably was like, how come I'm the one? That's funny to me, especially because with Ark, and it's like, he gets those two nominations in the 60s for Russians Are Coming and Hard as a Loney. And Russians is his first movie ever. He's so good in those movies.

But he gets the lead actor nomination for his debut film. Which is a comedy, by the way. It's a very funny comedy. Which is incredible, but like every part of that nomination goes against tradition. My mom, I think, you know, who is a Jewish woman of that generation is like, you know, this was our Jewish handsome, this prince of a man.

We loved Alan Arkin. He could do drama, he could do comedy, he could do thrillers. Yeah. And like Catch-22 is this bust. And I feel like by the time you're working with him, it's sort of like, yeah, his star years are well over. Yeah Oh, yeah, his come back was in the jerky boys movie, right? You know, right and I feel like then his old man come back where he wins the Oscar like that hasn't even arrived yet

But when that happened, I knew he was so happy. Yeah In my opinion, he deserved it for that performance I really deserved it for his performance in slums of Beverly Hills, which was also great. They owed him, it happened, I was thrilled for him. Because I knew how happy he was. He played it off. My theory, Eddie Murphy. Oh, the dream girls here.

Yeah, that was the thing where everyone thought he was going to win it, and it came to like, well, but people don't really like Eddie Murphy and people like Alan Harkin. My theory has always been with the dynamic you're talking about, right, is like the guys who hit such a level of movie stardom and not just movie stardom but like respectability. Not only were these guys like leading movies and hit films and working at the top levels of the industry, but people were like, these are important actors. The public loves them. They're reinventing the rules of screen acting. They're like mavericks. They're like generation defining. At that point, when you've proven yourself to that degree at a fairly early age, like late 20s, early 30s, and you've proven that you're not a one-trick pony, you've been able to do four or five hits in a row, at that point what you're competing with is like legacy, right? Those guys are no longer like, I'm trying to move up the mountain to the top of the hill. I want my shot.

It's like what I'm competing with now is do I go down in history alongside Jimmy Stewart? Like I do think that becomes the calculation. And for a guy like that, you're like, if I die and I don't have an Oscar, do they not remember me? I think there is some insecurity where it doesn't matter if you're in the fucking Godfather movies. If you're like, yeah, but I never won. No, I'm sure it weighs on him.

See for me and call me cheesy, it's not an Oscar. It's the, it's a star on the walk of fame. That's what you want? I want a star on the Walk of Fame. That's what you want. I want the star on the Walk of Fame. You can get one, you can buy it. Yeah. But I want to have people go like, I don't want people to be like, oh, look at that. He bought himself for advantage.

He really deserved it. I want people to walk past me. Yeah. There are names. Have you ever walked recently and you're like, who the fuck? I've never heard. And there're stars from like the 1920s. Fred Travolina. But they live on forever. Yes, yes.

People don't catalog who won Oscars in their minds, but you just take a walk down the damn street. Do you know what I, the term I use internally in my head that I don't say out loud because I think it's embarrassing? I remember being young and going to some random pizzeria in Chelsea and they had a mural of like the great movies. And it's like Rhett Butler and like Vito Corleone and the Ghostbusters or whatever.

And I'm like, that's the dream to end up on the pizzeria mural. I do think that is a sign of a monocultural fame beyond anything else. You're like, this isn't planet Hollywood. This isn't a restaurant devoted to the history of movies. They bought some stock piece of art that's just some of the great movies.

You know what must have been the biggest honor? Was like in the late 40s or in the 50s when Looney Tunes. Oh, when they like do a guy that looks like you. No, it's actually, there's one, there's a cartoon. It's like Peter Laurie and like Edward G. Robinson. Yeah, and dude, that would have blown my mind. I would have been like, there it is, there's my legacy. Well, Mad Magazine's one of those too.

I feel like people talked about for so long of like, if you get drawn by like Mort Drucker in Mad Magazine, that's like something. I was in, they did a numbers thing. Hey. Hey, hey, yeah, there you go. Can I tell, I don't know if you know this. I am pathetically this is a thing I admit to you with some embarrassment, but our listeners unfortunately know this all too well. I suffer from a crippling addiction to a cell phone game called Disney emoji blitz. Okay, that is like a sort of I think I know that. Yeah, I know. I know what you're talking about. It's like a Candy Crush-esque match up the shapes of the same type. And there is a Bernard one, isn't there? There is.

And when you play this game, you win the emojis that you add to your keyboard. I have a Bernard. I have an emoji of you with multiple expressions that I send to people if I'm in that mood, if I'm in a Bernard mood. That's a form of immortality that I don't think you can take for granted. Can I say one thing about numbers? Yes. I always liked how... I didn't get to respond to that.. Can I say one thing about numbers? Yes. I always liked how- I didn't get to respond to that.

You know what? It's probably for the best. I don't have anything to respond to that. I always liked the arts and crafts house, the Judd Hersch's house, all that nice furniture. Oh, it's a nice craftsman house, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It is a nice house.

I just remember any time- Very cozy house. It's a great house, the Hersch. Anyway. You would imagine Judd Hersch lives in that house. He's comfortable. It fit him, you know? I wanna say something. I said I didn't want to talk about me, but let's talk about me briefly because I'm here. Yeah. What I'm learning is you don't want to be an actor's actor. Interesting. See, I'm an actor's actor. Other actors think that I'm a good actor. Great actor. I've even. Great. Yeah. Fine. Yeah.

You meet, I ran into that, what's her name, one from Maestro, Carrie Mulligan. Carrie Mulligan. Unbelievable actress. Yeah. Knew who I was, told me she loved my work. No re, now that's crazy. That's right. I would be very pumped. Very pumped about that. Anne Hathaway is another one, beautiful woman. and Wollman. Beautiful Wollman! Beautiful Wollman. Wollman! That's a Wollman, son of a Wollman! I smell her water. And Hathaway!

One point he's literally just smelling soap. But here's the thing, I'm not a producer's actor, I can tell you that much. Boy do I know this feeling though. Okay. I'm not a director's actor. Well, some directors, but here and there, here and there. I push back on that. Producer studio is where they, I should stop complaining. Now it sounds like a complaint and I'm whining, but I'm not a, yeah. What you don't want to be is just an actor's actor. Yeah.

Because it makes, you know, it's like, and the thing is Pacino for a while was the actor's actor. He was a while, was THE actor's actor. He was a rare example of an actor's actor who was also a leading man. People could not, like Dog Day Afternoon, you can't believe that performance. You just can't believe that, wow, he's just re- like you said, rewriting every rule. It's happening in front of us. He's, he's, he's, he's measured and yet he's loose. And He's explosive when he needs to be. But he's holding back at a certain point.

That one you're like, oh he's going big but he's pulling it off. It felt at the time like this is the biggest he could go and it's impressive that he's gone this big. But someone, I think he thought to himself, you know all these actors respect me. But I gotta make European financiers respect me. Well can we talk about... And so he started talking like this! Yeah. But I got to make European financiers respect me. Well, can we talk about... So he started talking like that. Can we talk about his 80s now that we're getting to the point the dossier we're breast.

One thing I want to know, Al Pacino obviously never won an Oscar in the 70s. He was in The Godfather, he was in Dog Day Afternoon, he was in Serpico, he was in Injustice for a few dogs. Five nominations within the 70s. But who beat him for Dog Day? Dog Day is a good year. I'm saying that he loses to someone good or someone bad. Loses to someone good.

Is it Rod Steiger? No. No. That's two. That's before. It's 76. It's 75 Oscars. It's not Ernest Borgnein.

No. No. It's Marty. That's a great movie. Who is he? It's Hackman. In The Conversation? No. No. Hackman won for French Connect connection, but that's like two years earlier.

Shows how much, see how Oscars really don't, it's the walk of fame you want. Because that year is, is that the same year as Network? No, you guys are circling this. Same year as Rocky? No. What's another big Oscar winner in the 70s? Oh, The Godfather.

No. No, well he's in The Godfather. He's in The Godfather, right. Supporting rudely for the first movie, but loses that. Come on, come on. All right, fine. He lost two. Come on.

We just mentioned his name. Nicholson, for One Floor, for the Cuckoo's Nest. Because it's one of those things where you're like, it's crazy he lost for Dog Day after me. You look it up and you're like, ow, it's Cuckoo's Nest. And it was time for Nicholson to win his Oscar. And so there is the weird irony of when he finally wins an Oscar, it's for a part that was written for Nicholson.

But yeah, no, his seventies are huge. And then, right in his eighties, he does Cruising, which is a huge, strange bomb. Kind of a good movie, I would say. But at the time was a like, you should go to jail. Everyone involved in this movie goes to movie prison and real prison. Right. Yeah. Scarface, which we kind of talked about. Big hit, kind of derided, long cultural tale.

Then he does that movie Revolution. That's such a big bomb that he basically goes into hiding. For like six years? Yeah. The only thing he does is then Sea of Love in 89. And does he do Frankie and Johnny somewhere in there? So that's 91. Like this is when he's coming back. Like he comes back out.

He does Sea of Love. He does Dick Tracy. Does Godfather 3, which he has kind of measured it. Like that movie is very flawed, but he's not like out of control. Someone, well that's Coppola going, what the fuck are you doing? And it's like you're playing Michael Corleone here. And then Frankie and Johnny, and then this is the year where he's in Glengarry Glenross, which he is fantastic.

Fantastic. He gets a double nomination this year. Yes he does. And then this. And he wins the Oscar for this, and the year after this he does Car Leaders Way, which is incredible. Put me on the Cadillac board. Oh, that's such a great performance. But you're seeing the interesting shift of like,

Scarface, he's like, okay, so this is as big as I can go. I'm not gonna stay there forever, but I know now, I've pushed the wall, here's the limit. And then he'll like try and measure it again, and then Dick Tracy's like, can I go a little further? But. And they're like, we like this, and he's like, great, okay. And Dick Tracy's like can I go a little further? But and they're like we like this and he's like great. Okay, and Dick Tracy no problem. He's in crazy makeup It's crazy. It fits supporting role hilarious Totally works and Caprice

After this he's in heat. I feel like we all love heat now But right at the time people like a she knows kind of you know off the leash He is fascinating. Yeah, sorry go ahead.. No, I was just going to say, I think the thing that's fascinating about heat is that it's 70% sort of subtle naturalistic Pacino, 30% explosive, which is probably the right balance. You have your like- I'm sorry that dinner got overcooked.

I'm balling my wife. I'm going to be so bold as to say, I'm bald, I'm also balding, that the scene, the big lauded scene between De Niro, between De Niro, the diner scene between De Niro and Pacino in heat doesn't work. Wow. There's those two actors as great as they are, have zero chemistry. They do not speak the same language rhythmically. Interesting. I watched it the other day

I'm telling you that scene in my opinion does not work De Niro struggling in it Pacino struggling in it the the words aren't there It's too serious the scene you almost want to see a little bit of levity a moment of like realism and levity My friend sounds like you should watch Righteous Kill. That's what you're looking for. I just don't, I don't like it at all. I don't think Pacino took it down an appropriate amount until HBO's Angels in

America, until his performance in that. Roy Cohn. And, and, and I was relieved that, Oh, look at him. He's going small. The HBO stuff. Going small again. I would say that's a pretty big him, he's going small. The HBO story? Going small again. I would say that's a pretty big performance. It's a really good one.

It is, but then there's moments that are super subtle. I think that performance is underrated. And then playing Brian Spector. Phil Spector. Phil Spector, excuse me, not Brian Spector. Brian Spector's a Broadway producer, I know. Sorry, Jesus Christ. I never saw him in a Spector movie. Phil Spector. Oh, Jesus Christ. Hi Brian.

Phil Spector, oh he's amazing in it. I saw Paterno, but that's just him sitting in a chair going like, what's going on? I guess I know a little bit of this scene I did. But this is also like Spector and Roy Cohn, he's picking real life people who he's a good fit for. And he can't make them, he's prohibited. He has to do the real person. And those people are already a good fit for. And he can't make them. He's prohibited. He has to do the real person.

Right. And those people are already a little outsized. So him underplaying them suddenly feels like he's still getting to go big and go small at the same time. Right? Right. I think that's what was very clever. And then like when he shows up in the fucking Irishman, you're like, here's fucking 70s Pacino again. Yeah. He's yelling his head off in that movie. He is.

Which I love. Damn. You cocksuckers. He says that like every eight seconds. He's always... He's so good, man. He's incredible in that movie. I think he's so funny and he's very sweet and vulnerable in it.

This is the movie I want to see. Before they croak. Yeah. Right? Two older ex-mafia hitmen are now old and retired. There's no more Mafia. They go on one last attempt at a hit. They fuck it up.

It's a comedy. And they're both bumbling. And one is just as bumbling as the other, but they pretend that they, it's, it's, I'm dominant in the relationship. No, I'm not, you're not, I'm the dominant one. That's the movie. And it's Pacino and John Cena. It's Pacino and Joe Pesci together.

Wow. As two bumbling, come on. That never happened. It's crazy. I'd love to see Pesci be funny. Everybody loves to see Pesci be funny. Yeah, well he did Bupkis. Well, he did Bupkis. Yeah, he did Bupkis.

Bupkis. Good lord. What happened with the second season of Bupkis? It was one of the few shows to be on Renew. Yeah, I know. Why? Did people watch it? I think, I honestly think Pete Davidson was like, I'm sick of doing all this shit about myself. Like, I think that was the vibe. I think the third time he makes something about his own life,

starring Academy, an Emmy Award award winners playing his mom, it's going to work. OK, back to the research. Pacino says the script is the script. I am not improvising this movie at all, except for Hua, which I when I got taught how to load and unload a gun blind, which he does in the movies, cleaning the gun and all that. And that guy, every time he did it, would say, blind, which he does in the movies, cleaning the gun and all that. And that guy, every time he did it, would say, whoah, when he was done. And isn't it supposed to be whoah?

Yeah. Well, no. So it's no, so isn't that the military thing? So the military thing is kind of just this grunt. Some people say whoah. Okay. But a lot of people say whoah. H.U.A. heard, understood, acknowledged. So Al does go all in on talks to blind people.

And he says to Marty Brass, the only thing I'm adding is Hua, but don't worry, I'll only say it 25 times a scene. Only say it as punctuation. I'll show restraint. They thought about putting contact lenses on his eyes to kinda truly communicate the blindness. They decided not to,

because he didn't want to, I think. I think it's a huge pain in the ass to wear that stuff. I worked with the great Jamie Foxx who did it. He did it for me. Yes, and Rick. And he was amazing with that. I'd helped him and I, it was, and you want a little bit of an end with the Academy,

you go, you know, I wore the prosthesis. I was fine. I couldn't my eyes I literally couldn't sit there they had to walk me to the set yes right he knew Jamie knew what the hell he was doing he was fucking winning an Oscar he was winning an Oscar he was like I'm gonna win this thing just put those things on my eyes so Pacino's thing was just I just would literally have my eyes be out of focus I would just let my eyes go out of focus. Sure. He basically is just looking off to the side. That's his visual approach to communicating the blindness. It's classic like movie language for blind.

Yeah. I played a blind guy once. In what? In a couple episodes of a show called Raising Hope, which was on- Oh yeah, a wonderful show. And I just literally, they put sunglasses on me. And I was like, oh, I'm doing Stevie Wonder. Like, it's just me, and I'll talk with my regular voice.

But the movements, and I have to communicate I'm blind more than just with the sunglasses. I'm not that cheap an actor that you put the sunglasses on me, you tell the audience he's blind, and that's enough. Oh, I did the whole, literally like I it's hard to communicate on well, because it's but you know, I did not only did I do the head waving thing, but I also kind of did that one thing that Stevie does where suddenly he kind of buries his chin and he goes, he kind of you know what I'm talking about?

Oh, yeah, of course. I don't know what that is, but he kind of buries his chin. The Pachino thing is such a classic, like old Hollywood blind, where it's like, you just look at the wrong place when someone else is talking, but in a way where you're constantly playing to your best angles, catching the light. Here's the thing though, as Chris O'Donnell said, he's like, I'm working with Al Pacino. This is a legend. He says this many years later. And then he realized basically he never was looking at me on camera, like he noticed nothing about my performance,

he couldn't give me any feedback. He's always looking basically like three feet to the left of me if we're acting together. So O'Donnell applied his vocal strengths. If he won't look at me, he will hear me. Yes, Damon, Affleck, Brendan Fraser, all auditioned for this part. Wow. I don't really know why they, you know,

he says Anthony Rapp, Damon says, like everyone was like really into it. And then Damon has this story, but he ran into O'Donnell one time and he was like, how did your audition for Sent of a Woman go? And he was like, oh, went all right. And they were all just like, ugh, you fucking got it. Like, you know.

This is the thing, they viewed him as like the annihilator. Wow. This guy was a fucking like locomotive, clear out of the way. You're only getting fucking O'Donnell's sloppy seconds. Chris Rock says he read for it, which is like crazy to think about. Although probably would make the prep school dynamic

more interesting of like they're really against this guy. Yes. And cause with O'Donnell they're like, oh this Oregon poor kid. And I'm like, this kid seems like he was born at Harvard Westlake. Like he's so preppy. Like Bress says he liked O'Donnell's virgin purity.

Like because like, I guess Pacino is so jaded and horny that he wanted like a very kind of chased seeming presence Next I'll tell you that's a sentence that's never been spoken virgin purity breast said he breast Said he liked O'Donnell's virgin purity. No one on earth has ever no said those words No, it's the first time you could trademark that history of the world. I'm sorry, Mr. Samson, the bit, the other thing that breast says, Philip Seymour Hoffman gave one of the most amazing performances I've ever seen. It was ridiculous.

It was like something out of a Kazan movie. He's incredibly impressed with that actor. That's the only other actor he really shall. Hoffman is my favorite actor of all time. It is fascinating to watch his movies from this era where this was like his stock type. Well, here's the deal. Of like preppy asshole like loudmouth. Right. Sort of obnoxious. Yeah. Gregorius. Right and I just imagine if you're seeing this at the time you're like oh so this is just like this guy's gonna be playing this friend. Right that's what he does.

I totally thought that. He fits into this silo and he'll make a good career playing the guy you want to see get punched. And then, so I walk out of that movie going, I fucking hated that guy. That guy's so annoying. That guy's so annoying. He really got under your skin. He is really not a good actor. And then Boogie Nights and you just go, holy shit. Holy shit.

Where's this guy been? This is the actor of his generation. Correct. You just go, did you ever work with him? No, I met him once, but I never worked with him. Friend of the show recent guest James Urbaniak has a story, I forget whose play it was, but it was some off-Broadway play that Urbaniak read for to play a character who was like a demon in some sort of satirical comedy.

I just want to say I love James Urbaniak. A great actor's actor. I love him very much. The play is called The Author's Voice, Richard Greenberg play. Okay. And he went and auditioned for it and was like, I nailed that as hard as I possibly could. Right, had everyone laughing. I am like, this as written to a T?

Urbaniak had sort of built his reputation, the New York like theater scene. He was like, clearly this is mine for the taking. Doesn't get it. It's like who's this fucking Philip Seymour Hoffman guy who gets my part? He goes to see the show when it opens and he's just like, he is thinking of things that no one else ever would have conceived of for this role. This guy is like like 10th dimensional. And just his like, and I do think there's something too,

like he plays this character so well that if you don't have the context of knowing his craft as an actor, you're like, I hate this guy. Oh dude, I hated him. They just cast an annoying guy. It made me think he was a bad actor in a way because I was like, that is a putrid presence on screen

He's such an asshole in this incentive a woman. Yes. Oh my god. He's such a Other kids the bullies who do the actual prank you're like, yeah, well I get these they're just like he like this sadistic Yeah, he's got like a really slimy energy. Oh, yeah. Amazing. Only other thing I want to know in our research is, movies, 449 minutes long. That test. Did you say 449? Sounds like it. One billion minutes long.

It's actually 156. It's not 149. 156 minutes long. That apparently tested better than the shorter cuts. They had shorter cuts. And they said in the shorter cuts, Pacino's character seemed meaner. Like the more you gave him,

like the more sympathetic he came off. I can sort of understand it, but I do think this movie's length is like really punishing. It's really less boring. And you read reviews from the time and people say that. People are like, why is this so long? They were like, it is fully one hour too long. And I gotta say, this is a rough thing to say,

but breast hangs Pacino out to dry. Yet another sentence that's never been said. Breast hangs Pacino out to dry. But no, he does. I agree. He does. The camera is on Pacino too much. There's too much Pacino in this movie and he becomes sort of exposed.

And yet, at the time, it's like, he's giving the ultimate gift to Pacino. He's finally giving him the vehicle. But looking back on it and watching it now, I'd be mortified if a director did that to me. And yet he won an Academy Award for it. So we're wrong in a way. I've been with this character for two and a half hours. I have no handle on the Pacino character in this movie.

What is his character? Lunatic. He's, he's an angry, old, embittered military man who has gone blind from stress. Well, but except he was also juggling grenades. That's correct. That's a real mystery. You get to the scene where you're like, how did he go blind? And you're trained by movies like this to be like, there's going to be a tragic story. My brother or like he was abused by their father and somehow part of that. There's something where he either did something heroic or he was tortured in a way where you're

like, oh, here's the sympathy for this guy. I fight crime in Hell's Kitchen at night. He's crazy because something so inconceivably bad happened to him. And instead you're like, this guy was a fucking moron. He was an alcoholic. He did the dumb shit everyone told him to do. I mean, Bradley Whitford, who's also kind of great in this movie, has the line where he says, he always was an asshole, now he's just a blind asshole.

Oh, that's right. Yeah. And you're like, well, yeah, that's kind of the problem with this movie. Which is a good line, by the way. It's a great line, but it identifies the issue with building the movie around this version of the character, the way they've dramatized him, the way Pacino plays him, is this guy's just kind of insufferable. And the blindness doesn't really have anything to do with it. He's basically a jerk who can do two things.

He can be kind of a smooth smoothie with the ladies who will then, like, dance the tango with him. It's not like he sleeps with anyone through being charming in this movie. No, he in fact talks about the fact that, like, the core of his loneliness and his sadness in his life is like no woman wants to stay with me the next morning. Right. Right. Right. That you only see him pay for sex in the film. And it's sort of, it's so oddly chased the way that he's just shambling.

Yeah, and he's like that was meaningless. No woman will ever love me. Right. I would love to hear a supercut if someone could do it. And I bet if we ask for it, someone will do this. Someone will do this. Put together a conversation between dog day afternoon Pacino saying, I'm dying over here. And a scent of a woman going, I'm in the dark. I'm in the dark.

And just them yelling at him. I'm dying over here. Oh, you're dying? I'm in the dark here. That's the other. I'm dying over here. I'm in the dark air! I'm dying over here. I'm in the dark air! It's the other funny thing with Pacino where when you talk about the different eras of his acting, you're like, 70s Pacino and 90s Pacino are two entirely different impersonations. They have no commonalities. You just did two entirely different voices. It's not even like, you know in the trip where they're like Well, Michael Caine started up here. No, we don't here whatever. It's like I listen me

It's the 90s baby. Why 2k is coming. We got to get crazy before it happens. Come on. What are you talking? Like it used to be yeah, it's totally different thing amazing. Yes Like it used to be, yeah, this totally different thing. It's amazing. Yes. This movie starts with 30 minutes of boarding school antics, basically. You get a pop-in of Pacino for this one extended scene at like the 15-20 minute mark, and then like minute 30 the plot really begins in earnest. Or I guess the, you know, the quote-unquote heart of the movie. But you start at this like very Dead Poets Society-esque,

insufferably preppy boarding school. You have Todd Luizzo with a disconcerting amount of hair. It's actually disorienting to see. Philip Seymour Hoffman. Todd Luizzo. Todd Luizzo. Wow. Actors actor.

Holy shit. I auditioned for his role in High Fidelity. He's in High Fidelity. Oh yes. Yes, yes, yes. And he is very good in that. I mean, I'm sure you were across Jeff, but I'm not gonna... I had a very bad audition.

He's the shy one in High Fidelity, though. I'd almost wonder if you'd be better in the black role. I had a rough audition. Stephen Frears directed that movie and read a newspaper during my audition. Sometimes you feel like Stephen Frears's for a newspaper making the movie. Yeah, and flipped the pages quite crisply during my read. So I had, I will out him.

I don't know if I ever told this story before. I had, it was a callback bordering on a test for a TV show where Brian Robbins was gonna direct the pilot. Oh my. And he spent the entire audition looking at his phone. Like he was just texting rabidly head fully down. And at one point I went, like, should I start?

Because there was just 30 seconds of silence as I was waiting for him to finish texting. And he just looked up and nodded me like, yeah, you should start. And the second I started talking, he looked back down. I feel like I auditioned for him too. And I don't know what movie was that? This was this was a TV show called Blue Mountain State that I think was a Spike TV original. It was about a football team. Yeah, and I was of course auditioning to play the quarterback. No, nerdy guy, some fucking dude they shove in a locker.

A garbage can. Guys, some fucking dude, they shoving a lot of water in a garbage can. Fuckowitz or whatever his name. Fuckowitz, you do what are you doing? I'm just trying to get a lead, man. Ryan Robbins was like, wasn't good enough to make me look up for my phone. Wow. That kid had no handle on fuckowitz. Todd Louisa is there. Philipsy Malfman is there.

You got a Nicholas Sadler is the bad kid. Right, but Chris O'Donnell is just like this weirdly angelic boy with no personality. He seems to have no other friends. He's poor. Like that's what we're just like, oh, he's the poor kid. He's the scholarship kid.

He's gotta work hard. But saintly. No personality like you're saying whatsoever. He just sort of stammers apologies to people and is quiet. Right. He's got this very odd dynamic with the three rich assholes where it feels like they don't fully bully him. Yeah, they're like, ah, you're one of us, right? Scholarship kid. Right.

But also neither party seems to actually like the other. No, because they're jerks. Right. Rich jerks. James Rebhorn, third billed, loved to see it. I mean, this is- Probably the best thing about this movie is just James Redhorn's billing He's a great actor

But this is the ultimate James Redhorn part of like he's the guy in the blazer who's like well You're not following the rules like that's like just he did that the whole 90s. You must have worked with Redhorn I know Four billion movies. I just had a realization. What's that? The realization is the movie? maybe unbeknownst to the people who made the movie, is really about evil white people. Sure. And how they're not all evil because Chris O'Donnell is a good white person.

Oh yeah, we're supposed to walk out of there being like, Chris O'Donnell, nothing wrong with that guy. Yeah. The worst of white people, but there are a couple good eggs out there. There are. Yeah. I think that's what this movie is trying to say. I think it's Pacino's evil white.

Yeah. Hoffman. Yeah. White devil. Yeah. And then it's like, there's a white, there are white angels, ladies and gentlemen. There are a couple, we have one. It's as if they're saying, yes, white people can be bad. I feel like Roger Ebert has... there's some review...

He was positive on this movie. I'm struggling. Not for this movie. Is there any ethnic person in this film? That's a great question. Is there a single... Pacino is the most ethnic person. Yeah, think about that. There's not a single... I even feel like the maids in the hotel, you know?

Like the waiters, like every... it's a very Anglo-Saxon movie. It is very, yes. There's some Roger Ebert review, I think, where he was like, I actually would give this movie another star if this character was revealed to be an angel at the end of the film. It is the only way the movie makes sense. The character is like so simple, so pure, so unchallenged,

that to not literally make them an angel actually works against the film. And I had that thought watching this where it's like, and starting and ending with like the the fucking boarding school drama doesn't help it. You want this movie almost to be like, well, of course, and this was a saint sent down from the sky to help Al Pacino. To stop him from committing this. The boy who could fly is more believable than this film. Right.

Because there's nothing to this guy. The other thing that doesn't make sense to me about this movie is that, okay, yeah, he has this boarding school drama. There's a prank. He's a witness. Then Reborn's like, look, if you snitch on your friends, I'll write you a letter to her. Let's just make it clear.

The stakes of this film, the three rich kids hate that Raborn has a nice car. Yeah, he got a nice car from like the trustees or whatever. So they blow it up with paint. But they despise him from the beginning. They're like, isn't he just the fucking worst human being who's ever lived? Look at him in his car. We got to get him back for his car. So they put a giant balloon with a cartoon of him kissing the trustee's ass above a street lamp, above

where his car is parked. And they're setting this up at night when Academy Award nominee June Squibb walks out. Chris O'Donnell happens to be walking by, catches them in the act, is talking to Philip Seymour Hoffman. They both distract June Squibb. She doesn't notice the prank, but the next day when it happens, she puts it all together. The prank also is that the balloon is on top of his car. It embarrasses him in front of everybody, and then it's filled with milk. I think it's like white paint. I don't know. I couldn't figure it out. He's embarrassed.

It doesn't matter. Moral rot of America. Look. We have to get to the bottom of this. You two are the witnesses. One of you needs to rat on the other one. Or rat on the kids who did it. That's the weird thing. They're not even writing on each other. No, they're writing on the kids who did it. One of you must have seen something. Right. And and so he's trying to bribe him with this. He says to Donald. Right. Oh, Donald's like, okay, well let me deal with that. Then he goes. Give me a weekend to think about it. Goes in his, he's gonna be

caretaker to Al Pacino, who's a blind a blind horny mean veteran? He doesn't have money to go back to visit his family in Christmas So he's gonna spend Thanksgiving break. Yeah. Yeah sure looking he goes to the whiteboard and and of course There's the postings of jobs over Thanksgiving weekend right horny uncle, right and he pulls down the one 20 minutes in goes interviews Pacino Pacino reads him for filth, he walks out, that went horribly, you got the job. You got the job. Fine, fine, fine. Then Pacino's like, we're going to New York, we're going to stay at the fucking plaza or

wherever they go. That's like minute 3540, the movie basically beginning in earnest, now here's actually what this movie is. But then this character acts like he's king in New York. Right, even though he's from the south. That's what I just couldn't understand. Because it almost makes sense more if it's a Jack Donaghy style, like some old master of the universe who used to go to the plaza and the rainbow room

and still knows all these old guys and he wants one last hurrah. But like Pacino's character doesn't even really fit in. No. It's like he was in the army. Like that's it. We don't really know anything else about him. No, he's not like a high society guy even. I don't know.

What is Superfield? Sorry, sorry. No, no, David, please. Another formulaic mistake, because they had two formulas to choose from and I feel like they chose the wrong one, is there's the moment in the film where he basically tells Chris O'Donnell,

you are a weak nothing Piece of crap. I don't need you. You're not helping me at all. You are no good and you'll never and Okay, so at that point you go. Well Chris O'Donnell is gonna come back and prove to Al Pacino Yes, that he is strong and that he no no they go the other way they go Al Pacino feels bad Yeah, now Al Pacino has to come to this kid's rescue to make up for the mean shit he said to him. You know, I wanted to see Chris O'Donnell rise to the occasion and prove to the old military guy, hey, I got some balls. Does he ever do that?

No. The most he does is he kind of wrestles the gun out of his hands when he's trying to kill himself. And he's so like, you're gonna have to shoot me. But the scene is so devoid of any, like you know nothing's gonna happen. Well Pacino is like, my life is terrible, I got nothing to live for. And Chris O'Donnell makes his big stand trying to argue why his life is worth living. And I'm not saying that Pacino's character should commit suicide, but if I'm in his position, O'Donnell's speech does not sway me.

I don't think O'Donnell presents a single convincing argument. He's like, well, look, there's a sun in the sky. You can eat meals. By the way, your impression of Chris O'Donnell in this movie is better than your impression of Al Pacino in this movie. I'm gonna tell you.

No, no, that's a good Chris O'Donnell. I don't know. Yeah, I'm telling you right Am I wrong his speech is like am I wrong? No, you're not that I just hurt Griffin. No, you're right I'll take it as a compliment Yeah, no O'Donnell never like you're you're similarly waiting for some reveal of what drives this guy Yeah, and the most you get is he doesn't really like his stepdad Right. My dad left and my stepdad we don't get along why? He's just not a great guy. Hmm

Anything like really dramatic there? No, he's just like kind of a dick and Pacino early on is like hey lesson kid You should fucking rat out those guys because they won't hesitate to rat you out. He's correct Who gives a shit? They're masters of the universe universe you've had to build yourself out of the dirt Why why not like there's no stakes to this in a way right like there's no moral integrity in In the situation Chris O'Donnell's in he's done nothing wrong these guys suck Yeah at the end of the movie he doesn't snitch the only stakes. I will say there is is Pacino gonna do the right thing yes You know but by the right thing? Yes. You know. But by the right thing, do you just mean be nice to Chris O'Donnell?

Stand up for him, help him out. Which he does. Which he does. And you're like, thanks, thanks, Pat. And that's why you win the Academy Award, right there. Yeah. I think it's that, it's him saying, Hua, it's him being deserving of the award.

The dance. And it's the tango. And by the way, I remember how they promoted and how they marketed this film. HUA was very much a part of it. Oh, it was like their catchphrase. That was their catchphrase. The audience was saying HUA.

From Alaska to Hawaii to Florida to Maine. I'm curious, and if there's a way to figure this out, I don't think there might not be. What other movies came out that month? Or that weekend? I'm going to say, I'm gonna say I'm gonna guess I'm gonna guess one Okay, I'm gonna say Big Top Pee Wee came out that month And I don't know why I think that but something tells me that was around Big Top Pee Wee time I'm sorry to tell you you're a couple years off. I was 88. This movie was 93 92 92 this film came out

Christmas 1992. Like that was. Wow. Right, that was. So Miracle on 34th Street, the reboot. The remake. That's maybe like a year later. Look, I mean, look, David, this is the box office game.

We're gonna play it. We'll get it. Okay, good. I didn't realize that was a thing we did. What was in theaters. It's a big thing. It's a big thing. It's been codified into law.

But we think, like, I've never listened to this podcast once. That's what we love to hear. I'm sorry, I apologize. Oh, it's true. I don't listen to podcasts. It's been codified into law. But we think this is a like, I've never listened to this podcast once. That's what we love to hear. I'm sorry, I apologize. That's true, I don't listen to podcasts. Don't apologize for that. My friends do. It's a check in your positive box. I don't know how someone sits and listens to a whole podcast.

And while I walk. You walk, yeah. I don't walk anymore. This is Universal's big holiday movie. And it's an R, right? Cause this movie's got swearing and stuff. But still I do feel like it was kind of a like old and young can enjoy Scent of a Woman, right?

It's an R that you take your mature kids to. Because they'll learn a lesson about integrity. And it's not, this is not a lurid movie particularly, apart from him saying like, Teddy. So like, you know, it's like, it's not like nipple. There's no real violence in it. There's no, you know, the big stakes are, is he going to be a gentleman to Gabriel Anwar? Yes, he is. Is he going to drive this Lambo into a wall?

No, of course he's not. Is it a Ferrari? I forget what it is. But am I wrong in thinking that you look at all the marketing material of this movie and it's like Universal proudly presents the movie that is going to win Pacino its Oscar. Like all of the marketing material has the energy of like this is what this movie is designed to do. 100%. Undeniable right? And now when we get that kind of like obvious this film is a vehicle to give an overdue actor their overdue Oscar it's usually the thing of like oh still Alice plays at a film festival.

It's a scrappy indie and Sony Classics buys it because they're like, we can fucking win off of this. Right. It's crazy hard. It's like that kind of thing. It gets done in sort of like a gritty, smaller indie character drama way versus a studio being like, we're building this whole thing as like a monument to Pacino. Right.

It's, it's, it's, it's, they see the movie and they go, wait a second, this is all we got. We could campaign. And if we just campaign with this, we could win the whole shebang, the whole enchilada. There's good will. But it means that other films they made that year that might have been, did not turn out well.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Are there other scenes we wanna talk about in Sense of a Woman that matter? Many. Well then, let's hit some. You know, what do we got? Well, I think, this thing I'm interested in

of these directors doing this broad comedy to tragic comedy jump, the thing I find interesting is so often, as I was kind of saying earlier, the premises still feel on their paper where you're like 15 degrees in the other direction, this is still a broad comedy, right? The basic setup of this movie is kind of adventures and babysitting, right? It's like Pacino's niece says, like, look, it's an easy job. We're going away for Thanksgiving.

He's just gonna sleep all day, watch TV, just sit in the house and watch him, right? They leave and Pacino's like, we're going on a trip. Right. Right now, get your coat. What? One whirlwind weekend. What are we doing? Get my pussy. Right? And then like a day into it, he outlines what his plan is

Because O'Donnell starts noticing like hey, you're acting like Jack Donaghy What's with the limo and the hotel and the $25 cheeseburger? You know and all this shit and then he outlines like very specific plan Here's my weekend ends with me shooting myself in the head Yes, and then really just like food, stay in a fancy hotel, see my older brother who hates me. Right. Stir some shit up. Bullet in brain, you know.

Sleep with a woman. Yeah, I said, get laid. Did I not say that? Okay. If I'm Chris O'Donnell, it's like my friend put me in charge of dogs sitting there, like very old dog. And they're like, the dog barely does anything. Just give him food twice a day. Right. you're just like this dog better not fucking die.

And then the dog's like I'm gonna shoot myself. Exactly. Oh, Donald's like I just. Bok bok. There's no way to blow this job except the guy shoots himself at the plaza. But the whole time he's like. I'm gonna say it's gremlins. It is. Don't feed him after midnight. It's this broad comedy premise. It's harmless if you just don't feed him after midnight. It's this broad comedy premise. Be harmless if you just don't feed him after midnight. He's like a what about Bob like dilemma character. Mm. That this movie is like piling sentimentality on top of, where this like, you know, straight man kid

is stuck in a position where it's like, I got a handful. I don't know how to manage him. What do I do with this crazy guy? But the stakes are like, no, but I'm very serious. Here's my loaded gun. And it's very much about a square being taken into the wild side. Yes.

Right, like this kid has no idea, you know, what it is to, you know, Float with a woman. Float with a, play Russian roulette. And survive. Juggle some grenades. Juggle some grenades. Let's do it.

I'm gonna take him to class real quick. For anyone who did not watch the movie, the reveal of how he blinded himself is that he used to juggle grenades for fun and to entertain his troop. And one day he got so confident that he was like, let me pull the pins out. And blew up his best friend. Yes killed my best friend And and fucked up his eyes in a way the Lord left it that my friend died and I lost my sight But like conveniently has no scar let's talk about the logic of that. That's correct It's a lot of your juggling the goddamn thing. How are your hands still there? Right your eyes are fucking like blown to smithereens.

Did it blow up midair? And if it did, wasn't it in front of your face at the moment that it blew up and wouldn't that have destroyed your whole head? Yes. The other thing is he has his gun and he's like, it's my service, I never give up. I'm like, they didn't take your gun away after you were caught throwing grenades around.

Yeah, I'd take fucking everything away. I wouldn away after you were caught throwing grenades around. Yeah, I take fucking everything away I wouldn't let you hold a pencil after that. It's not just like well, it's time for you to retire It's like you blew someone up in the American base You're supposed to throw those at the enemy. By the way like doing a bit Doing a bit not even like an accident in training, you know But before he does all this stuff They do go to White Plains They do have the worst Thanksgiving dinner with Bradley Whitford and various other people that ends with Al Pacino putting Whitford in a choke hold

I actually like when he puts him in the choke hold because you're like he is He does actually have this guy dead to rights like that's the one time you really feel Saying all these shitty things about him and he's just taking it, but the thing that makes Hachino pounce on him keeps calling him Chuckie. Yeah, right. And you do kind of like that moment where you're like, okay, this guy's integrity is like as much as he's been giving this kid chin music, he doesn't like anyone who's a snob, who's disrespecting others on baseless grounds or whatever.

But in that moment, let's assume that there were hundreds of kids that call themselves Chuck that were watching that movie thinking, what's wrong with me? Chuck's not a bad name. There's a homicidal doll sitting in the front row of the theater going, am I really that bad? No one wants to be associated with me? So what? I kill a few people. The next big thing is the tango scene, which I do think is the most compelling scene in the movie because of Gabrielle Anwar. She's amazing. She's so cute. She's so cute. She's so charming and she's charmed by him.

Right, it's the scene. And she's forgiving. Yeah, it's right. It should be, there being a pain in the ass. This girl's waiting for her date or whatever. And instead you're like, no, she's into it. And I believe that she's kind of just having fun with it. She's the key to that film. I'm telling you, she's the key to the success of that film. I think she's pretty high on the billing order.

She had a decent career. She's in some good movies. I don't know. No, I mean, she didn't have the career she deserved. Yeah, she maybe didn't. Yeah. Is that his Oscar clip? The tango scene? Or is it him screaming I'm in the dark? No, it might be dark, but it might be... It's this whole place is out of order. That's the scene. Right there, you know.

If I was to take a flame thrower to this place! I'm a lawyer now for some reason. That's the thing that's so weird about like the ending of this movie is it feels like they're like, let's undo a little injustice for all, right? Can we have him play all the hits? Right, yes, no, no, that's. He's like doing a medley of Pacino shit, you know?

And now, again, I'm being gonna be openly critical of Pacino in this film. There's scenes gonna be openly critical, but you know in this film There seems like the tango and then later the Ferrari where he's I love this Yeah, and then he communicates depression like a robot running out of batteries Like there's multiple times in the movie. He's like, I'm starting to feel sad Chris Getting real sad and he's, literally stooping. Like he just starts to look down. Yes. And it's communicated like, oh man, 10 more minutes of this

and this guy's putting a gun to his head. See, but I also thought he was just running low on Jack Daniels. Yes. I wasn't sure if it was depression or it's just, he had like, had finished one bottle and needed another. Am I wrong that he calls it John Daniels at some point? He does. He does. He knows him like that.

He's not going to call him Jack or Chuck. He knows him like that. He knows him like that. My dear friend John. Like there's four different times in this movie where he's like going to kill myself. And he's like, Donald's like, oh, let's go rent a car. Okay. Like that is the vibe of this weekend. Yes.

Is that he's not even really enjoying it. No, we don't see him having sex with the escort. He's perfectly polite about it, but like, did he have a good time? It comes after the Anwar moment where it's sort of like, he's like, watch, watch and learn son. Like you don't understand women. Right. Goes to this woman.

What are you doing sitting alone? My boyfriend, he's running late. Well, let me dance with you. Does this whole tango, right? And you're like, oh wow, he's going to romance this beautiful young woman, or he's going to introduce her Chris O'Donnell and they're going to fall in love. It's to the movie's credit that they're like, no, no, no. Shitty boyfriend shows up and he's like, oh, thank you for dancing with my girlfriend. And then Puccino just feels sad and dejected. And then you basically just feel like yada yada yada over and then he like called some escort they slept together and she laughed and then he was really sad the next it begs

the question because in a way it's the reiteration of blindness is awful yeah yeah like you you are you can have the best time you're like gonna drive a Lamborghini down the street you can dance dance with a young woman, tango, but ultimately blindness fucking sucks. You're reminded of your blindness at all times. Now, what if they took the blindness out of scent of a woman? It wouldn't be called scent of a woman because the whole idea that's, that's also by the way, kind of, yeah, it's an insane title. It's an insane title. Again, subscribing to the plot to my movies, I know he's horny and he can smell real good.

Right, it's like taking the divinity out of the Bible. Let's take the blindness. It becomes an allegory. It's a much better movie about a guy who has to live down his demons. Just a guy with a piece of- Who blew up his fucking friend. Exactly.

He blew up his friend, that's enough! It's enough, you can make a whole movie, oh he's this fucking, he's a bad guy, man, he blew up his fucking friend, he didn't feel bad, you know, he was like, Jesus Christ, this is his redemption story. The blindness ruins this movie. But I would argue is also the additional actorly bit. I don't think he wins the Oscar for the version you're describing, which is undeniably a better film.

If not a good film or a great film, a better film that probably would age better. But the extra 10 percent of like, God, Pacino, you know, he just like the way he holds the bottle. Right. You know, there's all that shit that you just like you watch it now and you can just see people studying this in 1992. In every acting class. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, you can tell he thought about every choice he makes physically. And so that's exciting, I guess, to see. Now, remake of Scent of a Woman, they have to cast a blind man. A blind actor.

But no blind person, you know, would want this. No, I agree. Because they're going, hey, I have a good li... I've... I've... Of course, there's like course I work on staying positive and you know and this movie is about a guy who he goes blind late in life it's sudden like you know it's not like the circumstance all blind people face or whatever like you can sympathize that but you're right it just is kind of I'm a monster. But it's also why the Whitford line it like hits so hard where you're like you're already an asshole Right, the blindness is kind of just like the whipped cream on top of your thing pre social media

Yeah, people believed that there's no way that a blind person could be happy Right post social media people like oh, you know what a couple my friends are on Right, that's right So this movie doesn't work. No, this just happens to be a very upset guy about a bunch of other shit. And on top of that he's blind. This movie is disgusting. It's a disability movie in which we're meant to go, to feel awful for the person who has the disability. It's not one of those where you go, he just, he succeeded despite his disability.

It's one where you walk out going, God damn that poor son of a bitch. Yeah. You know, I, this movie is, it's wrong. Are you great? Now this is what's fascinating. Martin Brest has made three great movies up until this point. Right. So you like Midnight Run.

Love Midnight. I like, love. about Beverly Hills Cop? Unbelievable, Beverly Hills Cop. Have you seen Going in Style? What's that? Going in Style. It's so good, highly recommend. Is an old man robbery movie starring George Burns,

Art Carney, and Lee Strasburg. I know exactly what this movie is, I did not see it. It rules. You can watch it today, it's easy to rent or whatever, it's great Queens movie. Great. Like, you know, I'm from Queens. I know you are. There you go.

Yeah. Where are you from in Queens? I'm from Forest Hills, Queens. Yeah. Not the rich side of Forest Hills. I'm from the streets of Forest Hills. Yeah. There's a very rich side of that neighborhood. I'm not, I had nothing to do with that. The rough side of the hill. I was on the dark side of the train track. Literally. Yeah.

There's a train that rode the Long Island Railroad. Oh yeah. I was on the wrong side of the track. Yeah. That's right. Great movie. Highly recommend. Like never, never lets it turn into, you know, get too cartoonish, right? Never falls. Yes. All three of those movies are just like perfectly balanced, measured, judged, do not take themselves too seriously.

All comedies, right? All comedies, but have more depth and human insight than you expect from that type of comedy. And then he says, I'm going to make a drama and it's the most illogical, hard to believe, insulting, cancelable, disrespectful to blind people movie ever. But he gets a best director nomination, is nominated for best picture, gets the credit for being the guy who finally wins Pacino his Oscar, is a hit, although I was surprised to see- It wasn't like a hundred million dollars.

No. No. But it was a big hit. It was a hit. And it was certainly culturally a big fucking movie. And much like Pacino, this is a case of like, we've talked about so many times on this podcast, people who like get a little broken by a failure, a bomb, a folly that like they can't handle the response to. This is the weird example of a guy kind of being broken by a success where he was rewarded for the wrong things in a way that I think just like then recalibrates

him to a certain degree. You know? Like if this movie hadn't worked, he might go back to comedy. He's like, you know what? I tried to do my thing. I now know what my zone is. Right. And instead he's like, he is bat shit insane.

Yeah. In, in the, what is it? The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the canneries the the the the the the The canneries the devil's advocate. Yeah, he is bat shit insane I remember watching that movie like you want more. I remember watching that movie as a huge fan of al pacino Which i've always really been yeah and thinking Fuck like he's lost his fucking lost his fucking mind. He has, he, why didn't someone stop him? And I've seen a lot of performances of a lot of actors where you go, I wish someone

had just stopped them in the moment said, Hey, you know what? Take it down a notch for this next one. You just don't use those takes. You just don't use those takes. Or you, or if that's all you got it in the moment, say, it's a bit much. I know you're Al Pacino, but it's a bit much. But that's the example of like, yeah, you let Pacino do a take like that just to see if anything interesting comes out of him to get it out of your system. And at a certain point, it feels like everyone was always either using the single most insane take he did of every piece or he only ever was delivering it that way.

And it's proof positive that even the world's greatest actor, or one of the world's greatest actors can still suck, can still totally suck, because acting has no parameters. It's not a... Yes, there's a craft to it, but it's a matter of degrees, of subjective degrees between the worst actor in a porn movie, let's say, and Robert De Niro, and Marlon Brando. It's a matter of degrees, and they're incalculable degrees, and that is why I stand firmly in my position that acting is not an art form. It's not an art form. It's not an art form.

Because in every other art form, you can judge things based on certain parameters. Even in abstract art, you can do it, in terms of the layout and the color schemes and what have you. Acting is not an art form. I don't know what it is. It's a form of expression.

It's like birds shrieking in the jungle, right? It's like, hey, I'm here. Listen to me. I just need to hear myself to know I'm alive. I'm realizing, obviously you acted as a young man. How did you get even into acting? Was there a way it drew you in? Life with my feet. How does one become an actor? This story's been told, but I'll tell it again.

No, you don't have to. No, I'm happy to. Very thrilled to, actually. Wow. No, because you know what? I did a podcast recently. Dude, I've been doing so many of these. So this is my second to last one. I just want to say I've been on this press tour for this movie, Lousy Carter. Yes.

And good Lord. We'll be streaming Rentable Now by the time this comes out. Yeah, it's already streaming. I'm done. I don't like hearing that. I hate myself so much. And you did also pretty. And it's made me hate myself more, which I didn't think was possible.

You had to go through the whole award season gauntlet at Jason Taub and I. Well, that whole thing, I'm tired. I didn't like this to begin with. I don't like myself to begin with. We're big fans. But I recently told this story. You're the A plus guy. Just to begin with. We're big fans. But I recently told this story. You're the A plus guy. Just step away.

We're giving you a couple A pluses. Yeah, but people don't deserve me. That is a really good point. Hey, there it is. There it is. You know what? I'm hiding the light back under a bushel. You guys can't see what's under this bushel.

Society is at fault here. That's right. Let me, let me, I told this story and they cut it. So I'm gonna tell it again. Great. And hopefully you guys don't cut. This is a brief story. I'll try to make it as brief as possible.

Ben told me to cut to stand down and stand strong. No desire to be an actor whatsoever, 13 years old, going to school in Queens, junior high school, seventh grade, the Halsey Junior High School, which the Ramones and Simon and Garfunkel went to. And no desire to be an actor whatsoever, no thought of it, of being anything at all. Do you like movies? My dad and mom have been divorced since I was two. My dad does not know what to do with me on weekend with his weekend custody other than take me to every movie

To two movies a weekend so the whole relationship spelt around that correct and it won't take me to any R rated movies So I'm seeing every PG-13 comedy when I'm seven years old eight years old nine years old I'm seeing all of them and maybe an R rated comedy here and there as I'm getting older I'm seeing all of them. And maybe an R-rated comedy here and there, as I'm getting older. Okay, I'm seeing mostly comedies with my dad. This is like late 80s. This is mid, no, mid 80s.

Early 80s to mid 80s, the whole 80s, and early 90s is just me and my dad, Saturday, Sunday, a movie a day. Okay. Right, that's what it is. I'm learning so much, I have no idea what I'm learning. My grandmother is a super funny, talented lady. Literally has never explored that, but is quite a character.

She's teaching me comedy. My whole family's funny. Who gives a shit? It doesn't matter to me. I don't know what I want to do with my life. I'm 13. Who gives a shit? And I decide to take part in the school play,

which was a production of Bye Bye Birdie. The director of the school play happens to be my English teacher at junior high school. It's early 90s. They're starting to air commercials where instead of actors telling, you know, selling you a product, they're going out on the street and

Interviewing people what do you think of this product and using real people's interviews as their commercial and this new thing happens of Real people are more interesting than actors. Yeah So they go hey with kid actors specifically We don't want a kid that is too trained. Doesn't act like a kid in a movie, acts like a real kid. So they cast private parts, young Howard Stern, on an open call. Open calls.

Which is anybody can come in off the street, you don't have to have an agent. You just put flyers up at local schools. At local schools. Very rare thing that they were doing, but they were doing it. Because we specifically want kids who just sound like, look like, seem like a kid off the street. Correct. Yeah. They come to my teacher and they go, hey, there's this Broadway play, big part in Broadway play, Judd Hirsch's son. We're looking for someone who can play Judd Hirsch's son. My teacher comes to me, says you're a funny kid, you look like Judd Hirsch. I know play Judd Hirsch's son. My teacher comes to me, says, you're a funny kid. You look like Judd Hirsch. I know who Judd Hirsch is.

I love Dear John at the moment. You have that leg up on people where you're like, I understand who I'm playing against. Oh yeah, absolutely. 100%. I love Taxi. Had you done Bye Bye Birdie at this point? Correct. Who'd you play in Bye Bye Birdie?

Randolph McAfee, the son of the family I sing kids kids anyway Billy Eichner was also in that production in that same production with you correct who do you play he played Albert Peterson he played my father I'm pretty sure he played my father yeah I'm pretty sure I may be wrong but he was awesome. Ed Sullivan. Me and Billy went to school, we grew up together. So Billy and I go and audition for this play.

He also goes in, he doesn't look a damn thing like Judd Hersch, but he's a little Jewie kid from Queens. Yeah, he could play John Larroquette's son. Long story short, six weeks of auditioning. Every time I go back, there's less and less kids. It started with like a thousand kids from all over the city for you know what? It's down to me and Jason Waller Wow the director Jason Waller. Yes many comedy who was a professional actor kid Yeah, and was in a Saturday morning cartoon a commercial that would air

Yeah a commercial for a toy that would air during Saturday morning cartoons which I don't remember but so much so that I walked in saw him at my audition and became petrified you were like that kids a big deal that's the whole collection correct and he's telling me to collect them all anyway I get the friggin part and I'm on the way it's called conversations with my father it ran for a fucking year I did six months all of a sudden. I am an actor Yeah, Gardner on Broadway with a large part in a Broadway show the show next door is a show called falsettos The guy who wrote and directed that show is about to direct his second movie big first studio movie called life with Mikey

Yeah, he sees me in that show. He goes, hey, I'm gonna put you in Life with Mikey before you know it, I'm making a studio movie. That's a movie basically about child actors. The producer of that movie is gonna produce a movie called Adam's Family Values. Before you know it, I'm on set. It's crazy. The writer of Life with Mikey wrote my first TV series,

I do that TV series, the director of that TV series, of the pilot of that TV series, directs the Santa Claus, his first movie. Wild. For you know it, within three years, I've made three studio films, a Broadway play, and a TV series. Yeah. And I hadn't wanted to be an actor. Right.

I had no clue what that was. It hadn't happened by accident, but there was no intentionality to it. Insane. Yeah. And my family and I are like, this is insane. We know it's's insane a thing you're kind of like learning on the job. I knew yeah, I Knew I was good enough and I knew I knew a lot about movies. Yeah, I knew that like I Remember on the Santa Claus thinking if I could just do like a Bill Murray thing Yeah in moments here or whatever. Yeah, you know like

Grabbing from the language of it. I did. Yeah, it wasn't a problem and Thank God man. I'd be I'd be dead You know what I would be dead if I wasn't if that hadn't happened. No doubt about it. I'd be dead No doubt. You just don't know what like no First of all, my family did not have money. At all. I was not a smart kid. I didn't do great in school.

I was a lazy student. Later on, I fell in love with weed and alcohol and I would have totally gone farther. There would have been everything. Correct! I would have become a cokehead. If you had gone to that without the career at stake. I either would have become a lonely school bus driver in Queens. Well, that sounds sort of- That was an inspiration to children.

Tuesday nights on CBS, actually. Or a crummy, or a total crackhead. Yeah. Or both. Dead crackhead. OK, OK. Could be, believe in yourself. Right. You could be a school bus driver I'm crackling you could have died on the bus crack that school bus driver. Yeah, yeah, absolutely

Which would be good like there's no doubt my mind. I'm I'm happy yeah, how would I have afforded college? How would I possibly I would have given up well? There's one way you could have afforded college hmm If you had agreed to let's say Look after a blind lunatic for a weekend. Convinced him, kept him from committing suicide? Yes. And then he, you know, doves you a favor by serving as your sort of pro bono attorney at a disciplinary hearing in front of the entire school. That way you're repaid with a...

I'm the sole witness to a prank. Yep. That pisses off. He's just literally like, stop it! This sucks! And they're like, you know what? It does suck. It's just the last three minutes of this movie when you get back down to it. First of all, thank you so much for sharing that story. I love the way we worked our way back around.

I also just want to point out Wallinor replaced you on Broadway, I just looked up. Wallinor did replace. Wow. And Jim Belushi replaced. John Hersch. Yes, it became the Jim Belushi, Jason Wallinor. It's a bit of a downgrade. It's a hell of a leap.

It's just crazy like oh let me buy tickets to that like oh well you're getting Belushi tickets. And it was an overtly Jewish play, it was an overtly Jewish play and and Jim Belushi and who's Albanian and I remember seeing it with Jim Belushi and going what the hell's going on here? Also, Jason Biggs was in it. I'm seeing Jason Biggs played my older brother. Yeah. Wow. Young Jason Biggs. Little Biggs and Hirsch won the Tony.

He did. I'm just, I Googled. And then you worked with Tony. And Tony Shallow played. Yes. I played him as a child. Yes. Wild.

Yeah. It's a great play. Great play. Yeah. You worked with her so much again later. Is he just the best? You know, when I first worked with him, he was doing Dear John, and he was really kind of bold and brash. And I don't want to say he wasn't the best.

He was the best, but he also had an ego thing happening. Later on, the greatest. Yeah. Hilarious, wacky, and super strong. You know, physically and mentally like crazy. That guy's gonna live well past 100. He's 89 now. Watching interviews with him now. There's no stopping him. But when he was on like the Fableman's press tour when he was doing his like Oscar season gauntlet,

you're like, oh he's playing old in the fabled men's right. He's acting to seem more feeble and out of it. And like this guy's like at full fighting. He is an ox. Yeah. He's a big bull. He's something else. I mean, they don't make them like that anymore.

He's a tough, tough guy. We should clone him. She'd have an army of Hershes. We got to restart the Yiddish theater. That's what we got to do. Sure. Yeah. Okay.

I was just gonna say, when this movie, The Last 30 Minutes, boils down to like this insane ersatz hearing. I mean, it's awful. I just keep going like, first of all, no school does nothing. None of this, as Ben has said before, this isn't real. It doesn't make any sense. This isn't a thing.

It would make more sense if then June Squibb got up and was like, we don't really know why we're here. This is a very strange proceeding and we, the disciplining board, whoever we are, reject it. Speaking of this movie being like 10 degrees off from like an absurdist comedy, you're like, this is like the end of Billy Madison, where they're all admitting like this whole like setup is insane. But it has like the procedure of like the end of Harry Potter where Dumbledore is like Harry Potter, you 11 year old for killing Voldemort, uh,

50 points. And that everyone's like, yeah. And you're like, what is the, the, you know, the high, low tone of it? Yes. The same thing here. He's basically, everyone's just trying to humiliate him. Pacino calls it out. And then June script is is like our verdict is he's bad he's bad he's fine see you all later Also the stakes of this are a prank where a rich old man was embarrassed like nothing really happened And we don't and there's no emotion like is there ever a moment in this film where Pacino goes you know why I want to kill myself? Because I hate myself. I'm a terrible person. I did terrible things and I'm bad. I'm the problem. Not really. Not really. Instead, he's dancing around too much. Had there been that moment, maybe it's a watchable

movie 30 years later. O'Donnell doesn't turn him around with anything good either except like come on Don't do that, right? We shouldn't do that. That's also why this is a bad performance, right? I mean we're talking about like the weirdness of acting which I do think is the interesting thing to talk about here Like the thing with this movie. I Will say like backhandedly Is it's like it is watchable, right? It is incredibly long, it is exhausting. Right.

But like, and I would never get a breast and Oscar nomination for this in a million years, but you also understand why the Academy is like, it's Tony, it's classy, it kind of has like, it's smooth, you know? It has these like big emotional waves and big scenes and whatever. It's in focus, The score is lush. Like all this sort of shit. And the same way you're like, everything Pacino is doing is compelling. It is certainly watchable. Right.

Which like... It's a spectacle to some extent. Right. And you rarely... Like people who don't see performances by people who truly cannot act because almost anyone who ends up in any professional level project has some modicum of if not like skill or craft at least some innate charisma that at least makes them like compelling in that frame. The people who have none of that barely end up on a radar where anyone could even see them, right? But, you're like, the reason I think this is a bad performance is you're like, he's not playing the story of this well. No. He's not serving what this movie should be.

He's making the mistake of playing the persona. Yes. Of the guy. Yes. Rather than, there's a human being behind this persona he's put up so that we get the sense as an audience, oh, this is who he has to be. Why is he doing this?

He feels he has to be this person because he can't live down his mistakes, but there's this other person behind him. Right, instead of he's a fetal juice. It's not in the writing. No. Correct. It's not in the writing. It's just a flat one note character all the way fucking through. But this kind of movies are to a certain extent, if it's not not in the writing. It's just a flat one note character all the way fucking through.

But this kind of movies are to a certain extent if it's not there in the writing part of their job is to be like We have to fucking find the center of this. Hua. Right. We need to do a couple drafts. Instead he was like here's here's the spine. I say Hua. So who's at fault? Is it breast Pacino? Bo Goldman is his name. Bo Goldman's the writer. I would say Breast is most at fault.

I think Breast is the one who can reign him in. I agree. But then Breast is like, what are you talking about? I made a hit movie that won an Oscar. Well, here's the other thing. So then what? You learn no lessons from that. Here's what happens.

I was rewarded. But here's what happens on movies, right? Here's what happens. You can be Martin Breast. You can make three great movies in a row. You can work with De Niro and whatever. Got a great performance out of De Niro and Grodin. You get on that set and the elephant walks in the room.

The big gorilla, Al Pacino, you don't tell me how to act. I'm Al Pacino. Now maybe Pacino doesn't say that, but the air is there. There's an air of Pacino's God. We don't tell, my job is not to direct Pacino. Meanwhile, we like... In fact, I don't even want to take the chance, because what if Pacino yells at me?

Anything he's giving me is gold. Before you know it, it's now Pacino directing the movie. Which, by the way, if you're just sitting behind the monitor, watching Pacino do take after take out of this, you are like, this is compelling, he's doing a lot of shit. But that's the moment where your job as the director is to zoom out and go like big picture. Correct. Track the performance. Yes. If he's not doing it. Right. Cause it's really Pacino's responsibility to track the performance,

especially if he knows he's not being directed. But then breast at someone has to be sitting there going, good Lord, it's the same shit over and over and every scene. Yes. To be fair, the movie is also just not very well written. And what are you going to do, I guess? Like it's a silly movie. I don't know if I'm breasted if I'm going to come in and be like, this is, oh, I'm blonde. Like, I don't know what he's supposed to be doing. No, no. Let me tell you who he beat for best actor. Robert Downey Jr. for Chaplin. Clint Eastwood for Unforgiven. Stephen Ray for The Crying Game. And Denzel Washington for Malcolm X.

Which is of course the kind of like, the searing one. Denzel had just won an Oscar three years prior. Neither did I. And Pacino of course had never won an Oscar. And that is why I think this is the totemic like, that's why you don't want to get into a makeup Oscar situation.

I don't want to call the Academy racist, or at least racist at that time. 1992 Academy. But my God almighty. Real bad. The greatest, in my opinion, hands down the greatest biopic ever made is Malcolm X. And that movie wasn't not,

the only nomination it got was Denzel. Yeah, right Yeah, and maybe some creative like like art stuff Yeah, yeah insane, which is insane. Yeah, that movie's a masterpiece. Um, correct So that's it's just a crazy situation. You look at that. You're like, he's the worst of those five actors Yeah, not only that I mean, I think Downey Jr. And Chaplin is the the second worst and that's a really interesting performance. That movie's kind of like all over the place. I think he's phenomenal in it.

Eastwood is incredible in Unforgiven. I mean, it's his best screen acting ever, probably. Stephen Ray getting the crying game nom, like sure, you'll only get a nom there, but that guy's a legend, and then fucking Malcolm X. Yeah, it's one. And instead it's Pacino, because it has to be. It's not just that he gave a big performance,

they're just like, we cannot skip out on this. It was Pacino's time chaplain downey jr. Is I mean Echoing what you said a couple minutes ago. He's like at that time. I worked so hard. I thought I deserved that Oscar I was really crushed. I didn't win it if I had won it. I would be dead right He's like if I had gotten the encouragement at that moment in my career of like, by the way, kid, you're better than Clint Eastwood, Al Pacino and Denzel Washington. I would have been dead within five years. There would have been no limit to my self-destruction. Right. Right. Yeah. No, I know, I know an alcoholic writer, comedy writer, who's a recovering alcoholic. He was one several Emmys. And if you go to his house, they're nowhere in sight. Yeah. You say, where are your Emmys? And he says, oh, if I, if you go to his house, they're nowhere in sight.

You say, where are your Emmys? And he says, oh, if I even look at it, if I'm in the same room as them, I will become a full-blown alcoholic again. Box office game, we're gonna do the weekend that went wide, Griffin, rather than, because Christmas, we've already done that weekend. So this is January 8th, 1993.

We're gonna guess the top five movies of this weekend, David. Scent of a Woman's at number three with $8 million. It's gonna make it all the way to 60 plus. What's number one, Griffin? It is, it's the best picture nominee this year. Big hit drama, good movie, better movie than this. Well, you just gave it, it's Unforgiven. It's not Unforgiven.

No, cause Unforgiven's like a very slow burn. Unforgiven had come's not Unforgiven. No, because Unforgiven is like a very slow burn. Unforgiven had come out. Unforgiven won. It did win. It did win, but this is a nominee. This is just, this is up against Unforgiven. Unforgiven's stat it had for a while that I think it maybe still holds

is that it was the slowest it has ever taken any movie to get to $100 million. It played for like a full year. It had come out in August, I assume after it wins Best Picture, it gets a bit of a sort of bump. And we know Malcolm X wasn't nominated. So it's not that. And it's not Crying Game.

No, it's not the Crying Game. These movies are floating around in the sort of 20s. Right. But it's a Best Picture nominee in 1992. Big hit movie. Highly rewatchable and quotable. It's not The Fugitive? Is it big? No.

Nope. Nope. What genre? Legal drama. It's not a few good men? It is. That's the same year as this. So him, Nicholson doing few good men over scent of a woman is really interesting when you

consider them being at the same time. Correct, but that's a supporting performance. And I believe Nicholson was nominated He was not what but that's like for unforgiven in in history in long view history That was the smarter decision for him. Oh, I'm gonna do five days on He's like, I mean in for government all uncork it for two great scenes. That's like, you know, right? I'm right. It's the function of that part, which is get that big for five minutes. Like imagine if he yelled,

you can't handle the truth at everyone for two hours. Anyway, number two at the box office, gigantic animated film, biggest movie here. Aladdin. Aladdin. Aladdin. So you could man Aladdin, Scent of a Woman, number four, another smash hit of 1992.

It's been out for two months. Big drama. Drama. Malcolm X sort of. No. It's like sort of like a big, mash hit of 1992. It's been out for two months. Big drama. Drama. Malcolm X? Sort of like a thriller. But it's like a romantic thriller. It's hard to categorize this movie. It's a romantic thriller drama? Yes. That's what Wikipedia calls it.

It's not basic instinct. No, it's lighter than that. It's lighter than that. It's more romantic than erotic. Yes, yes, exactly. What is It's more romantic than erotic. Yes, yes, exactly. What is it? I said it's not basic instincts. Yeah. Who is the distributor of this picture?

It's being put up by Warner Brothers. British director. It's a British director. It's not a, it's Frears, it's Dangerous Liaisons. It's not Dangerous Liaisons, it's a great guess. It's trashier than that. It's trashier than Dangerous. Is it not Dangerous Liaisons, it's a great guess. It's trashier than that. It's trashier than Dangerous Liaisons? Is it a period piece?

Is it an Adrian Line? No, not that trashy. Not a period piece. Fuck. We're just hovering around these trees. It's a huge movie. Oh, Notting Hill. Not Notting Hill, you're a few years off there.

It's an American movie, British director. It's an American movie with a British director. It was huge. Giant movie star and then even bigger celebrity. Oh, it's the bodyguard. It's the bodyguard. Oh, the bodyguard. The bodyguard.

Kevin Costner, Whitney Houston. Who directed that? Mike Newell? Mick Jackson. Mick Jackson. The guy who did L.A. Story. I worked with Mick Jackson. What was Mick Jackson like? Mick Jackson directed The Pilot of Numbers.

Wild. There you go. Yeah. Was he nice? Extremely. Number five, I feel like is the only movie in this top five that's kind of forgotten. Because this is a big five. Yeah, well, it's Christmas time, you know.

It's a drama, a sort of weepy fantasy romantic drama with a big movie star. The poster is his fucking face. Is it Forever Young? It's Forever Young. Forever Young. The poster is his fucking face. Is it Forever Young? It's Forever Young. Forever Young. Mel Gibson is Forever Young. That's one, no that's not the one where he has, that's the man with two faces. Man with two faces or no face?

Man with no face. No face. Not even a face. Got it, I get him too and he's inhabiting. He directed that. Forever Young is the one where he like wakes up from like- A time capsule. Yeah, like cryonic freezing and then he starts aging really quickly

First script really yes But I think it's like a derided movie like it was a flop. Yes, I believe so. Yeah, like it was a cheesy movie Yeah, it's like serious blast from the past. Although it beat blast from the past. You've also got number six home alone, too Uh-huh. Talk about Pesci being funny. Number three, Number Seven Chaplin. Sure. You know, big Oscar movie. Number eight, new this week, because it is January. Leprechaun, the horror film. Leprechaun. With Warwick Davis and Jennifer Anderson. Number nine, a big Oscar flop of this year, Jack Nicholson again in Hoffa. Oh yeah. Which is actually a great movie. It's not a bad, and Hoffa, the Danny DeVito movie. Which is actually a great movie.

It's not a bad movie. Very good movie. But Danny DeVito did a great job. DeVito's a fucking good ass director. He is. He's a good director. And number 10, a movie we were recently discussing, The Distinguished Gentleman,

the... Oh, Eddie Murphy. Eddie Murphy Congress. Oh, God, now that's a movie that people have forgotten. For good reason. Yes. Time has forgotten. Cheryl Lee Ralph. The great Cheryl Lee Ralph.

I made the argument. And Lane Smith, he must play the meanest congressman in that movie. Well, I knew. Exactly. Love Lane Smith. David and I were talking about how his children seeing the cover of that movie's video box,

which I don't know if you remember, the poster is a painting, and he's lifting the lid off the Capitol Okay, and he's like pulling money out of it, right as if it were a piggy bank I remember it now that you write it. Yeah, and we as children both were like this is a movie about a giant man Stealing money and their huge dollar bill stuck inside a bill. Like we just absolutely literal face value What is the premise of this film? Right.

That was the moment that Eddie Murphy really started with the equivalent of what Botox would be like. He started like really trimming his eyebrows. Really glad, you know, a little too much eyeliner, you know. And you went, wait a second, is he trying to be handsome? Yes. Because he's handsome, but we kind of liked it that he was. That's his period.

And Boomerang is right before that, I want to say. It's like Boomerang is very funny. Yeah. Distinguished gentleman is not funny. No, but Boomerang is about like, obviously, like a player, like a player. So you believe that okay he looks good. He's kind of going for it out there. But then yeah I remember the Sting was gentlemen and thinking uh-oh. Yes that was a big uh-oh moment but

it is in the top ten. Yeah okay. Wow. That is that is our podcast basically Griffin we're basically done right? Yeah is there anything else? I just had a quick merch spotlight just sent a link over. Okay Ben. Perffume, it's available to buy right now called Scent of a Woman. Yep, it's available at Costco's. My browser is concerned that I even opened this link. I got a pop-up worried about me. Yeah, I do love how, just with Guy Verlaine,

where he's like, do I smell soap and water? And I'm like, do you not smell that on everybody? And most people, babe. One would hope, yeah. It's also insane that he would know all of these different perfumes. Where did he learn that? You have to understand.

I can super smell. Right, but be able to define them by name. It's like he would go to Macy's and hang out. In Rain Man, you're like, oh, that's Dracar Noir. That's Fahrenheit 451. In Rain Man, you like, that's Dracar Noir. That's Fahrenheit 451. In Rain Man you're like, look, this is a somewhat cartoonish representation of like severe autism, but we understand there are people,

you know, who have this kind of mental ability, right, to do math in their head and all that. And this is just like, he's blind, so he knows all the perfumes. Like it's the worst logic leap in that. I have a subscription to the Braille edition of Vogue magazine And I open that flap with the perfume sample, and I never forget a smell He charms fans his Conroy at the end of the movie

I mean I said this one and she's like oh yes, it is and you're like, oh, Chino's gonna be okay He's gonna date this lady now. You smell like Clubman talk David I know you said that you David, I know you said that you no longer like being called an actor's actor, but the anecdote you threw out about working on the Santa Claus performance, so iconic, it's now immortalized in emoji form, about like already thinking about how you fit into it. Yeah. Right? Like, oh, should I be the Bill Murray in this movie and whatever?

That is like the thing I have always loved about you as an actor and talking about like the weirdness of this craft and how Pacino is sort of out of sync of this movie and all this sort of shit. You're a guy where I'm like, you always know exactly what you're in. I every performance I've seen from you, I just feel like you understand the exact function of the type of film you're in, the language of the movie you're in, what your character needs to do. I credit my dad. He just took me to so many movies. And I loved movies. I love movies. I just love movies. He didn't hesitate to take me to really weepy dramas.

Yeah. You know, I just learned genres. Like it wasn't, you know... That's great. Yeah. I'm lucky. I'm really lucky in that regard You know my dad my dad literally didn't know what else to do with me. Yeah, and it worked out Yeah, yeah, yeah, my dad was just a simple guy and he was like let movies teach him how to live But you know, let that be his liberal education just movies Midnight run don't ask me for advice. Yeah, never go on a midnight run. That's right. These things go down.

Thank you so much for doing this. Dude, you're the man. Thank you Sims. Why don't we call him Mr. Sims? I know no one even brought up the name. I said it a couple times. Ben brought it up too. Ben said we should only call you Mr. Sims. It's a 2M Sims, which I'm often hit with the 2M's. I only have one M. Just one M for me. Lousy Carter? Yeah. Lousy Carter out on VOD. Martin Starr, Olivia Thoroughbend? Correct. Oh, I love them. It's not a terrible movie. Hey, fuck, I'm in. You know. I mean a pit like that. It's really not bad. Do you have anything else coming up?

No. You want to plug? No. Not literally, no. Thank you for being here, Dave. Thank you for having me. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe.

Thank you to Marie Bardi for helping to produce the show, Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our artwork, Kalei Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song, JJ Birch for our research, AJ McKeon for our editing, AJ McKeon is also a production coordinator. I said everybody? Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to remember. I remember how all of them smell. That AJ McKeon, he sure does smell like your classic Old Spice. It smells like soap and shampoo. But it's deceiving.

It's actually Pantene Pro V. Do I smell sweat? Are you a human being? I do know that JJ's a Ghanaian fructis man. Ha ha ha. Herbal essences. Ha ha ha. Lane Montgomery Pantene Pro V all the way.

They're nothing but Paul Mitchell. You go to blankshadepod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon, BlankShack special features, where we're finally onto tabletop games, or are we still doing Toydolls? I don't remember. Doesn't matter. Let's take a look. I think it matters. I actually, David, I do think it matters.

Okay, we are of course Still doing turtles Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles out of the shadows next out of the shadows a film we enjoyed. Yes. Yeah Tune in next week for me Joe black. Thankfully Martin Brest is gonna Swerve away from this movie with a 25 minute longer weirder weepier Longer weirder weepier Star vehicle What a weird career And assault waves Very good, thank you