Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo with Fran Hoepfner

Episode Date: November 5, 2023

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo? More like The Girl Who Go On Computer! The Girl with the Fruit Tattoo - Fran Hoepfner - joins us as we dive into Fincher’s 2011 Nordic noir. How does Fincher’s take on Stieg Larsson’s international best-seller compare with the original Swedish version? What does Rooney Mara as Lisbeth Salander have in common with ET? Does Christopher Plummer have the greatest octogenarian acting decade of all time? WHEN WILL BEN HOSLEY MAKE HIS WITCH HACKER MOVIE? Guest Links:  Subscribe to Fran Magazine Follow Fran on social This episode is sponsored by: Hatch (hatch.co/check) Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com or at teepublic.com/stores/blank-check

You'll be listening to Thieves, Mizers, Bulliesies the most detestable collection of people that you will ever hear my podcast uh okay sure i'm trying to think what would be good david was finishing someone asked me a question that was really interesting just as you started doing that which is why i know it was terrible timing which is why isn't he's obsessed with my podcast i have a friend who's obsessed with my podcast i'm sorry which podcast uh this one right our podcast that we're doing right now and he asked why the sixth sense isn't available for streaming and i don't know the answer yeah i don't know i don't know is that a hollywood pictures thing goes all the way back to the

beginning of my podcast i just want to make's watching The Sixth Sense because he loves this podcast No, no, no, I get it, I just want to make it very clear We were recording our podcast And someone asked you a question About the podcast And you chose to prioritize that Over the record I thought you were going to do something really long So honestly, I was strapping into that

Well, that's on you, bro That's on you, bro. That's on you. I'm trying to think of another... I just thought that scene was... Spicy quote. I thought he talks for longer in that scene. I mean, I think he talks on either side of that. I'm trying to keep people on their toes.

And both of you are going like, if there are five pages of dialogue in that scene, wouldn't Griffin do all five pages? You know what I thought you were going to do? I think we thought the same thing. The sort of like, all I had to do was offer you a drink monologue that he does,

which is such a good Skarsgård monologue. I mean, that's a long monologue. But it's long. Well, you know what? You occasionally will do a long one. Yeah. And I like to mix things up do you want to do it again put your hand back in my podcast like a bigger response all right all right here

we go okay ready yeah wait so we want to why isn't the six cents on streaming at all i don't know don't you think that's kind of weird that's a movie you just see on tv well but you're saying it's not rentable, to be clear. I believe it may be rentable, but it's on any other streaming service. It's not on a Hulu. That fucking happens all the time. Seems normal. Yeah.

And so, just so we're clear, we're going to actually start over. This isn't the episode. No, all of this is in the fucking episode. All of this is in the episode. You can rent it, but that seems to be the only way you can watch it. Ben, all of this is in the episode. Maybe like at But that seems to be the only way you can watch it All of this is in the episode Maybe like at the end Maybe at the beginning when the episode starts

Okay Starting when you do the quote All of this was in And I'm gonna do the quote now And remember I actually now think it's funnier if this is at the end Just because you've said it has to be at the beginning so many times This is at the beginning

And I'm gonna do the quote And get ready and be listening because remember the quote is short okay ready let me ask you something why don't people trust their instincts they sense something is wrong something is walking too close behind them you knew something was wrong but you came back into the house did i force you did? Did I drag you in? No. All I had to do was offer you a drink. It's hard to believe that the fear of offending can be stronger than the fear of pain, but you know what? It is. And they always come willingly. And then they sit there. They know it's all over, just like you do, but somehow they still think they have a chance. Maybe if I say the

right thing. Maybe if I'm polite. If I if i cry if i beg and when i see the hope draining from their face like it is from yours right now i can feel myself getting hard you know we're not that different you and i we both have urges satisfying mind requires more podcast there you go instead of towels i I believe is what he says. I get hard listening to podcasts. It's just so, you're really like arrested by that monologue. And then he's like, I'm getting hard. And you're like, whoa.

And then you're like, I mean, right. I guess that's what's going on with you. He mentions that he's getting hard as if he's listing another item off his shopping list. Jesus. By the way, I'm also hard right now. God. So good. And then he makes it clear.

He's like, I don't really do men. That, I mean, we'll talk. Look, I want to say, one, spoilers for The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo is still in Skarsgård. It's villainous in this film.

There's this astonishing twist. I mean, we were just talking about Sixth Sense. But you talk about the greatest twist in movie history that you cannot see coming. Okay, so this was my biggest note about Dragon Tattoo when I first saw the movie.

I had not read the book. I didn't know anything. I knew there was a murder mystery. And Skarsgård walks in and I'm like, the case is closed. 911, please. Come to this guy's house. It took you that long, David? Opening credits, you see his name single

card you think i should call the police then i'd be like please i'm watching a movie basically place him under arrest right i agree with you that i think it's a somewhat intentional move well no now right now my feeling with about it has changed quite a lot but but um the biggest reason to have scars guard obviously my opinion is is, who can do that shit better than him? He's so good at it, too. Can I front-load this just because this quote is top of mind. Top of the mind. In the commentary for the motion

picture, Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. 2011. I think it's the first scene where he goes over for dinner at Skarsgård's house with his girlfriend. Right. Or maybe it's in the house no I because I think it's in that early scene whatever it doesn't fucking matter the point is in an early benign scene yes he said the reason I want to cast Skarsgård is the villain and I think he's one of the best in the world at playing villains, is no one—he says—here's the exact quote. Son Skarsgård is the most relaxed person on Earth.

He is so incredibly comfortable in his own skin and confident. And for me, that's the point where people start to re-question their definition of evil. Right, right, right. Which is such a good I've never heard someone put it that way. I love that. And I especially think when we're talking about like... And that's true of like all those Lars von Trier characters he's played over the years or whatever. Yes. But when people...

They're not just monsters. When we get into this chicken egg conversation of like, why are so many wildly successful people also seemingly like horrible degenerates? Right? Sure. And you're like do they become successful to cover up their shit or does something about the boys in their brain their brain right fincher just fucking nails it it's obviously not a an umbrella answer for all the cases right but there's something about people who become like masters of the universe in any sphere where

then they start to go like, maybe I should like reassess all my beliefs on morality. Like maybe all my thoughts on the world are a little black and white because they're just like, well I figured my shit out. My shit's set. Thoughts on this? Yeah. You want to weigh in on

psychopathy and celebrity? I think at the time I saw this movie I really only knew Stalin from Pirates. Bootstrap Bill. Bootstrap Bill. Bootstrap Bill. So I allowed myself to feel surprised when I first saw it.

Well, Bootstrap Bill's a good guy. That's a good guy. That's a good guy. When I first saw it, I felt that there was a different thing that was telegraphed. Interesting. That she has a dragon tattoo.

Yeah. They do show you the dragon tattoo. They do kind of make you wait for it though They make you wait And you're like yeah I fucking knew it was coming And you're also like well I didn't want to see it like this you know Not the best circumstance Go ahead

It's not a good tattoo Uh huh No She's a young woman who's gotten a lot of tattoos And I think you know some of them she more just got like together In the books It looks like it's giving maul Do you know what I mean?

Yeah Like maul tattoo Yeah In the books like it's giving maul in the books i mean yeah yeah like maul tattoo yeah uh in the books it is her entire back it looks like darth maul's face tattoo you're saying in the second one she's getting some of her tattoos removed yes which feels very like okay now she's like in her late 20s early 30s where she's like time to rethink this i know that it's only the english language title because the sw title was the men who hate women. Men who hate women. Right. Which I'd argue is a better title for what the story's about, but less catchy. It's not a highly commercial title.

No. Men som hatar ki vinnare. It would be now. Men who hate women? Yeah, it would be like. Like half the people would be like, they do. And half the people would be like, and it's good. Yeah.

Right. I like it. I like hating women. No, I was just going just gonna say it feels a little reductive to call her uh the girl with the dragon tattoo i'm like she's got a lot of stuff going on the girl who goes on computer i wouldn't say dragon tattoo is top 10 of what's interesting about going on a computer one of the we're definitely going to talk about how about this is this is number one movie about go on computer but um no it's just well the reason it's called

the girl the dragon tattoo is the second book in just well the reason it's called the girl that drank a tattoo is the second book in sweden swedish is called the girl who played with fire right and i guess they decide and then the third book is called the air the castle in the air that exploded yeah well is that true yes which is like a sort of swedish aphorism for like you know man plans and god laughs was converted to girl who kicks the hornets i think they were just like of these three titles the girl who is a pretty good template for us to follow so let's let's spread that to the others yes rather than be like hey men who hate women like you've taken an airplane you want to read this it's still dragon tattoo I'm just like she's got a dragon tattoo it's a big dragon

even if we're going physical attributes I don't go dragon tattoo top five. What, you wanted the 90-pound hacker who, you know, I don't know, has a lot of piercing? She only has the mohawk for the intro. Yes. Sure. That's such an iconic image, but then the rest of the time you can tell her heart is not into that.

No, it also just felt like they were like, we got to check this off the list. But the sooner we get her away from the specifics of how No me rapace looks the better for us yeah you know um yeah isn't it sort of a choice though somewhat like that she's sort of becoming a little bit like less extreme throughout the movie and like her look is becoming less her look is not yeah like her look in my and we're going to talk a lot about this. The girl who has the look is a better title.

I'm going to talk about this with the girl in the floral print shirt. Yeah, well, it's... I can't really. It's fruit. It's fruit, sorry. The woman who was six foot two. 5'11"? 5'8". Please, come on. I'm not a freak.

Her look is supposed to be like, just get away from me. I don't want you to touch me. Yes, yeah. And then in the climax of the third book, which is where she has to give this testimony, she goes all in. She goes crazy. She's got like a huge mohawk all of a sudden and stuff. And that is more her doing like a sort of dominance display.

She has a Phil Spector approach to the courtroom. Did you like the third book more than the second and you were like, whatever on both? Because the third one is trial. So you read them after seeing this movie? Okay, so, alright. Introduce our podcast and our guests and then I'll tell you the answer to that question.

This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I am Griffin. And I'm David. I took a sip. I slowed down. No, I slowed down. to get me No I slowed down Oh you slowed down Right right Yeah Cool

Let you finish the sip Thank you It's a podcast about filmographies The podcast With the filmography With the context Yes I don't know

Whatever Yes No you got this I was gonna say You're really close to it No I think you do The hosts who still don't know How to keep their podcast on rails.

The hosts who played with context. Yes. The friends who played with context. Yes. It's about filmographies directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby, this is a miniseries on the films of david fincher it is called

the curious pod of benjamin but cast correct it is not called the pod with the dragon cast too or whatever a few of those were floated yeah uh but that is the movie we're talking about today the girl with the dragon tattoo what was on its face his biggest blank check in a lot of ways. I think Benjamin Button ended up being the bigger one, but this was such a like... It's a good question. You know what?

This can't miss. We're rolling out the red carpet for you. You do this your fucking way. I mean, like, R-rated is R-rated. In England, this is certainly,

I'm sure, rated 18, right? Which is higher than the regular rating, a 15. And yeah, like, you're're gonna get this huge budget but then of course you know could it be a total blank check if it's like a huge bestseller i don't know like you know like that's helping write the check but it's probably the

closest to you know i want a hundred million plus 150 mil to do an f scott fitzgerald story about brad pitt turned into baby, old man Brad, is maybe biggest blank check. No, I think... And I think he would say that. He was like, I spent years rolling that up the hill. Yeah.

I think that ends up being the bigger blank check. But this was the rare kind of like, this cannot miss project. And I think it's also, here's stuff that David Fincher finds interesting, which he's going to be allowed to make on a really big scale and budget because the book is such a bestseller that people won't question it. If you brought this in as a spec script, they'd be like, sure, here's $500,000.

Right. You cannot put this on screen. This is unbearably dark. There's something to the book being so successful that, like, studio thinking goes out the window. Not that they weren't panicked about this movie in many ways. They were excited and they were panicked. Look, it was a blockbuster bestseller book and we needed a blockbuster bestseller guest. Someone who fucking breaks the podcast charts every time without fail.

Yeah. Fran Hoffner, Fran Magazine. Yeah. Hi, Fran. Hi. fucking breaks the podcast charts every time without fail yeah fran hoffner fran magazine yeah uh hi fran hi so the lady with the fruit sleeve tattoo yeah that's the better girl with the fruit tattoos that's right i'm saying lady i'm saying lady to be a little more if girl feels a little diminutive call me a girl i don't care okay i'm only 24 i mean when you were on our live show you introduced yourself by saying girl guess girl yeah girl guess okay the baby with the fruit sleeve tattoo the baby the 5'8 baby with the fruit sleeve tattoo um now fran francis um you and i well we going into we we set that you were gonna do this months ago uh and i had seen the girl with the dragon tattoo in theaters and then maybe a couple times since then my esteem for it had

always risen but i'd never read the books and i'd never seen the swedish films or anything like that right and i was like i'm gonna do it i'm gonna read all the books yeah and i said i was gonna do it too right and you read this book well then i read all the books and i was like fran just read the first book yeah don't don't read the sequels i am like a third of the way into the second one and and and like you got a lot of book left my friend i know i was sort of unaware of how much longer and denser the sequels are and i know you told me there was kind of a kind of significant drop off between in my one and two and three um i'm starting to like two now but it's like i really had to wade through some stuff you didn't read any of the post larson books did you no they seem

beyond pointless to me i have of course seen the the girl in the spider's web i saw it i almost watched that also just because i'm almost want to re-watch it but i i decided to wait till after this just as i didn't want to actually break my brain. The consensus on it is just so, like, everyone hates that movie. I mean, it is very bad. And she's really bad in it, unfortunately. And Rooney is so good, in my opinion, that, like, it's a tough performance. I hope I'm allowed to say this.

And if I'm not, Ben, AJ, or Alex, I will tell you to cut this out. But, like, something kind of astonishing about how ill-advised that reboot was, especially when the thing that everyone liked most about this movie was that performance and how quickly they abandoned it. No, it's like, what is it, 2017? Right? 2018? They're like, you know what America should have again? Is Lisbeth's salander fever. 2018.

Past and future guests, friend of the show, Tatiana Maslany. Yes. Tested for both versions, I believe. She did, right. That's the thing. The window is tight enough that she made sense both times. Both times. Yes. Which like in and of itself tells you this is a bad idea.

It's just so weird i don't understand and we'll talk about this later because obviously it's not the like fine if you don't want to pay fincher to do it you can still rooney mara still wants to do it yes maybe daniel craig kind of didn't maybe that was part of the problem but then in that case that's the one you recast he's really important to the sequels it would be tough to recast him i don't know i don't know i i know i just think you're right that like just do the fucking sequels like you'll make some money the whole the whole problem doesn't we'll talk about it but like this movie had such astronomical hype around it because the books were so fucking

massive and in other cases of shit like da vinci code or uh 50 shades of gray where there's a best-selling book but you're like i don't know how they turn this into a movie i don't know how you pull this off at studio level i don't understand what you gain by putting an insane budget behind it but they would all fucking pay off at the box office and this one disappointed relatively and then they're in this weird position where they're like well we've made these movies we basically set a template of producing them at a blockbuster budget with a director who is very exacting and now is it too expensive to make a sequel relative to what we know our audience is one star who's already huge one star who's gotten bigger because of this but it was dumb of them to even try doing it without her and dumb to do one of the other books um that's enough on the girl in the spider's web

though because we're here to talk about vicky creeps and not covering on vicky creeps is in it she plays the robin wright that's so funny she does wow but it for like five seconds and who plays the daniel craig part um like a fucking no offense to who would I assume is like a solid Scandinavian actor, but a fucking random. His name is... But Clive Spang is in there, right? Yeah, he is. Clive Spang plays a villain heavy type.

Svegur Gudnason, who we all know for playing Bjorn Borg in Borg vs. McEnroe. Yes. And Lakeith's in it too? Yes, he is. He's an American. He plays the guy who befriends the girl with the dragon. And fucking Stephen Merchant is in it. It's a bizarre cast.

And Sylvia Hooks from Blade Runner. Well, she's in the girl. She's in the spider's web. Where's she been since then? She's still in there. It's hard to get out of there. spider's web where's she been since then she's still in there it's hard to get out of there um because in all three of um larson's books steve larson's books the the millennium trilogy as it's known uh it is often mentioned especially in the sequels that elizabeth has a sister who

she does not know okay and you know that larson had many books planned before he died that he never wrote. And it's clear the sister was going to be a part of it. So she's a big part of Girl on the Spider's Web and Sylvia Hook's place the sister. Gotcha. She's a big gangster. I can't remember. Maybe.

Yes. Maybe a twin. I just read all these books and I already forgot. Kate Mara. I mean, that's sitting there. If I'm fucking bothered with. Yeah, it's true. Okay.

Here's a question. We got a lot to talk about, but I'm just going to I'm going to say't fucking bothered with, yeah, it's true. Okay, here's a question. We got a lot to talk about, but I'm just going to say it because we're already on this topic, okay? Could they just announce tomorrow, you know what we're doing at Fincher, Craig, Rooney Mara? Is anything fucked up by them having waited 10 years? Rooney Mara is almost 40. I don't think she could do this anymore. That would be tough. She's almost 40 years old.

Elizabeth's supposed to be like 24. I'm asking as someone who just read the books. Yeah. Do you think there is no way they can rewrite it to have a greater amount of time pass? Um. No, they definitely could. Did the events of the books need to have happened in immediate succession? No, I think.

No, the sequel has a jump. Is that there is this jump. They're not friends anymore. They're not friends anymore. Okay. She changes her appearance a lot. She's getting the tattoos removed. She gets a boob job is sort of a big... Really? Yeah, because she's like... Yeah, I mean, this is sort of where

these books drive me insane. But, yeah, she's like, I'm sick of looking like, you know, a 90-year-old little girl, so I'm going to get a boob job. I mean, she doesn't get like a crazy boob job. She gets like... It would be funny

if the book was like, and then she got way too big. She's fucking dragging these things around. She went full Angeline. There's like three too many scenes of her like looking at herself in the mirror

and being like, finally, my womanly breasts. I love admiring them. The thing about the sequels is that they're more Elizabeth, they're more Elizabeth forward in a way. and being like, finally, my womanly breasts. I love admiring them. The thing about the sequels are, is that they're more Elizabeth, they're more Elizabeth forward in a way. They are all about her.

But you said the Daniel Craig character is really important in the next one. Well, because then she gets the shit kicked out of her and she's in a hospital for like a lot, sorry, spoilers. Okay. For like a lot of book two and pretty much in the entirety of book three.

No, maybe not a lot, but a fair, like, and then, so then it has to be Blondquist just like send. The other problem with the sequel, look.

Is he getting revenge on her behalf? He's trying to help her. It goes all the way up to the top. She doesn't want his help. It goes, the whole thing with the books is it goes all the way to the top. But the books become about her rather than her being a character who's entangled in other mysteries.

The huge problem with the sequels is they are the huge. What is so good about The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo is it's a murder mystery set on a remote Swedish island filled with rich Nazis. You're like, I love this. This is so interesting. The sequels are all about the mystery of her birth and the conspiracy that she is inadvertently part of that goes all the way to the fucking Swedish prime minister who's a character. You're going to meet him eventually. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's this untangling, this big government conspiracy and it's not a murder mystery anymore and it's not as fun. But it's loosely tied to the Wennerstrom stuff. It's sort of... The Wennerstrom stuff has a... Look, we can't do this. We can't do this?

Well, we can't all day explain the plots of the sequels because they're so complicated. I'm just saying it's not that Dragon Tattoo is so disconnected from the other two. Sure, but the other thing about these two sequels is that they are, Lisbeth and Mikael are not really together for pretty much all of them.

That's what's annoying. Okay. And as Fincher says, And that's even more of a problem cinematically than it is on paper. And also the other problem cinematically is it is on paper. And also, the other problem cinematically is it's a lot of fucking emails. Like, and like,

you know, Fincher does so well to dramatize that, but the books are even more of like, it's like Lisbeth on her bomb pilot in a hospital bed, like, a lot of it. You know,

that's the one argument for this on paper being the bigger blank check is like, Fincher signs up for this. And basically the expectation is, okay, get ready to make three.

And obviously the other two don't happen. But I think part of the pitch for him, I mean, as Fincher told it, he was like, I don't want to do this fucking movie. I'm not super interested in this book. They've already adapted it well.

And Rudin's pitch to him is, this is your chance to make a blockbuster franchise for that wasn't rudin that was um was that uh pascal yes right okay sorry not rudin but he's just rudin uh take was if you don't do this i'll throw this phone at your head right you fuck rudin's take was he pushed the polio button on his speakerphone do you know this this, Fran, that Scott Rudin had a button on his business phone where if he pressed that line, his assistants,

his room full of scared assistants knew it's time to bring him string cheese. He could just have a fridge with some string cheese in it. And the point was he also didn't want to waste the energy to say it to pick up a phone and say bring me string cheese. He just pushed the button

and they go fuck it's line 17. Polio. Polio. Polio. It's inelegant to ask for string cheese even though it's protein. It was the polio line. And delicious. Do you think anyone ever like came in with like Horizon Organics and he was like what is this shit? Polio or nothing. Babybel and he's

fucking pelting it back at their head. You don't want to give that man a baby he could make all he could make a hole in you with a with a baby don't give me cheese wheel um yes i mean that's me with my dog do you want string cheese or round cheese like is a question i've asked her many times right well she had a button you wouldn't have to go through all that would you i can't give her but she loves buttons. She's always pressing any button she sees. She'd love Ben. Yeah.

Ben Button. She might be a little alarmed by him. Why? He's a baby. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he looks a lot older. He looks a lot older.

No, I just love that story of Fincher being like, I don't know if I want to do this. And Pascal says that to him. This is your chance to make like a blockbuster franchise for adults and he's like god fucking damn it like the pitch of just no you're right i mean i mean let's let's crack open the dots to do this at this scale with this sense of seriousness and this sense of anticipation and whatever and part of it's like you're gonna get to do like long-form storytelling we're here to talk across movies the girl with the dragon tattoo the girl with the dragon tattoo david fincher's 2011 the girl with the dragon tattoo i saw it christmas time 2011 what about you fran i saw it on new year's day 2012 sure sort of a memorable but not that fun does it come out on christmas day proper or like december 23rd the film of course came out on december 21st okay i saw it opening night uh yes i don't know if i actually saw it christmas day but it was that christmas weekend

i remember and i had held off on reading the books when i heard fincher is making a movie i was like i'll just see the movie same ben did you see this film in theaters i did not not. I had, though, seen... The Swedish film. Correct. My parents were all in on these books. Right. So I knew about this franchise,

but I feel like... My girlfriend at the time was all in on the books, too. Humblebred. Ben, had you seen all three of the movies? Well, how does it line up? All three had come out

before this one. Okay, so then, yeah, I had. Okay. Yeah. This was like something I would watch with my parents. My parents love European detective and like mystery stories. They were made for parents, these Nordic thrillers.

Yes. So this was something I could kind of get down with them. Even though they are brutally grim and violent often, parents are like, fire it up. So I hate to be that guy, but I think I even at the time was like, I'm not going to watch an American version. Well, this is why Fran and I are here to talk about this. But yeah.

No, but that was a lot of the, even when the trailer came out, people were like, why are they doing this again? Yeah. Because those movies are fucking good. No, they're not. They all completely are the most mid-fucking movies ever made they are six out of ten so boring i only watched the first one five and a half why don't you go yeah and you

look in my mother's eyes i will because i just watched all three and i was like jesus like let me hit the stage button she needs this yeah she needs a way there for her mom needs a win Ben's mom needs a win I watched the first one In prep for this The first of the Speed You know what I watched The first episode of the mini series

Recut I'm not even doing that shit because that came later That's just them throwing in deleted scenes They turned it into six 90 minute episodes okay quentin tarantino two hours yeah across the three movies well that sounds fun um all right but that was that was free streaming on something so i was watching that i watched them on topic wait that's what it was. It was Topic, Free Trial. I watched on Crackle and I saw commercials for some of

the craziest things I didn't know existed. Like Crackle. Like Crackle originals. Pop. Yep. Keep going. I'm done. What did you see ads for, Fran? I'm trying. There was some medieval sitcom.

Medieval sitcom. Live action? Oh, yeah. But it has like a, I'm like, it's like named after guys you could fight as in Age of Empires. I googled medieval crackle sitcom and I got medieval castle room with fireplace cracking crackling sounds on YouTube. No. This is going to drive me crazy. medieval castle room with fireplace cracking crackling sounds on youtube this is gonna drive me crazy i'm like who are some of the guys that you could play in age of empires are you playing

the crackling maybe i should go all in on making those three-hour youtube videos that are just like you know it's raining outside you're in a castle like you know like just mixing various vibes together ben's i'm already been doing that all right then i won't we can't have two on the same podcast all right what if i take space and you take earth okay i can do spaceships yeah yeah i so you're gonna um how are you gonna record that audio easy easy easy trade secret i don't remember and i'm sure you have it in the dossier the timeline of when the swedish movies get released in theaters in the u.s versus when Fincher is announced as the director of the American version. I mean, I'm sure I can find the—I mean, the Swedish movies were released in the U.S. in 2009. Okay.

All three of them. The first one was released in the summer and the others came later. They were all just released in a row, basically. And he starts filming this at the end of 2010, basically. Right? He started filming this in September 2010. Yeah.

So, I think... Cossacks. Hmm? Cossacks is the name of the show. It's called Cossacks and it's medieval sickling? Cossacks. Yeah, it's like,

it's Ukrainian peasants. This is like a really, it's presumably a popular crackle show, but every 11 minutes in watching The Swedish Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, I would get an ad for

this this is a bit we used to do on the george lucas talk show used to do we still do it uh do you know who owns crackle now no what company owns crackle is it you guys chicken soup for the soul we've done this on the oh this makes sense with some other commercials i saw a lot of inspirational content yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and also something called willie's wonderland apparently chicken soup the soup itself is not the only thing that's liquid in that fucking company because they're they're buying shit left and right yeah they're very good the most successful right before you came in no i just that's off the top of the why are you reading from a list that says chicken soup bits i'm reading from the back of a campbell's can but like all these, we're fucking, the strike finally resolved the day this fucking episode was born.

But the reason it took so long is chicken soup was the last holdout. I was going to say, they're the only ones. Netflix was like, yeah, we'll give you whatever you want. And Chicken Soup for the Soul was like, I want to fight you on these points. They're lighting cigars with fucking stacks of hundreds. No, they seem to be the only ones who are making money. It's not just Cossacks. It has then

a totally fake tale subtitle. Oh, it does? Yeah. Well, I don't like that. Which I think is cool because it's telegraphing. We're not taking this

too seriously. I really hate that. It's very like Your Highness core. Hate what? Like anything now where it's like mostly based on a true story. like mostly based on a true story.

This is based on a true story. Kind of. Wink. And all right. Jesus Christ. Did any of us see the last voyage of the Demeter? No. That would be funny if that began with this is based on a true story.

Kind of. Do you know what it does begin with? It says like this is based on Bram Stoker's Dracula chapters one to three. It does like an opening card where it's like in the seas between da da da da. Like it's doing all the like in universe sort of like table setting context. And then the next card says based on the opening chapters of Bram Stoker's Dracula. And you're like, why fucking tell me this is fake? Because keep me in the reality.

The other thing is they're too afraid. Don't ruin the fucking. They're ruining it, but they're too afraid, so they have to ruin it. That movie is such a good idea. I feel like someone should just take another crack at it. Honestly, like, just try again. Yeah, I agree.

I agree. Actually, it's like the opposite of Girl with a Spider. I'm like, I approve a remake of this in one to two years. Like, that's fine. Well, it's doing like Natasha Pierre, War of 1812. Let's keep doing this where we're just like let's just take two chapters from this thing and do that that's cool also just fascinating that universal is like we learned so much from the mistake of the dark universe we know how to handle these characters now we're gonna release two different we're gonna put them all on boats about dracula neither of which are actually

dracula movies release them in the same year and have both of them on. What's the other one? Renfield. Yeah, and neither of them will have the word Dracula in the title. They did two different takes at, like, how do you make a sideways Dracula movie? Oh, I forgot about Renfield. Well, he didn't forget about you. Awkwafina plays a cop.

Sure. And then they had two... Acab but Awkwafina? No, Acab including Awkwafina. No, I think including, yeah. That character's not very good, a short drop. The girl with the dragon tattoo griffin okay so we all saw it except for ben who is one of those fuckers sipping his tea going like the swedish movies are

better and that's like been a splinter in my mind for 12 years when this movie underperformed people said i think it's just everyone got their fill already i know these movies got bigger when they went on netflix and dvd and everything that, I think, and I think that is true. And there was enough time in between. Yeah. Because the first one did 10 million domestically, which was a robust number for a Swedish film. Decent for a Swedish film, but no, it's all streaming. The sequels both barely made a dent in theaters.

Yeah, no, it's streaming. People just watch them on streaming. And, you know, it was the CliffsNotes, too. It was like, great, I don't have to read these, like, 800-page books. I had not seen any of these. I don't know if it was out of lack of interest i guess because the fincher announcement didn't happen until after they had already come out and had their life cycle but i was just like i don't know this isn't my kind of thing um hadn't watched until i watched the first one last night and i just remember when the trailer for this came out and people were like it just

looks like a shot for shot remake why do i need to see this again and re watching the swedish one for the first time i'm like these things don't fucking look similar at all the swedish movies don't look like anything correct they look like tv man they look like tv no i just i do just want to say that when the trailer for this came out people absolutely lost their minds because this is one of the best trailers that's what i remember not the first teaser i'm saying the first proper trailer was when i remember dumb people on the internet saying it looks like a shot for shot remake i was listening to my crackles i forgot i had the volume yeah i guess the the longer trailer but yeah that teaser trailer with the immigrants on people were like you know hooting and hollering and feel bad movie of the you know winter and all that yeah no that was the moment

of like is he about to pull off the godfather like is he taking a pulp novel and turned it into like just blockbuster high art and then this movie came out did well but underperformed yes relative to its hype and then uh weirdly though i think well at the oscars but underperformed yes relative to its hype and then uh weirdly though i think the most well at the oscars but underperformed relative to its hype no it it did well at the oscars compared to the underperformance correct and then you know like that almost suggested like yeah people actually kind of dig this movie right um and uh and then i think has had sort of a weird legacy where it took a while for people to maybe come back around and be like, you know what? Which is why I'm asking, why not just fucking make the second book set seven years later and do it now?

I think everyone might be over it, except for maybe Rooney. Yeah. Who seems like she has always loved it. I almost think this type of thing now is so much darker than what this is that this almost feels like too easy because i remember seeing it at the time i saw it with a group of friends some of whom were like into movies and some who are not who are like i love a bad vibe and then we came out and we're like ah not that bad though like sure and now my impression of is that everything that exists like this is is like almost so much worse and much more cruel well it's than this is and what i continue to admire

about this movie every time i've like subsequently re-watched it is how gentle it is and like the margins well it just it really cares about its uh characters yeah uh in a way that feels semi-unique for this genre there's a sensitivity and like an empathy for its characters. Yeah. That's great characters. He wrote great characters, old Henrik. David, crack open the dossier.

Henrik! Sorry, Henrik, sorry. Henrik. Henrik. Henrik. Stieg? Yeah, Stieg. Who's Henrik Larson?

Gary Larson? Henrik Larson. Henrik Larson may be a football player. The cows talk to each other. Yes, Henrik Larson, big football player. The cows who make pithy comments.

That's Gary Larson's Millennium Trilogy. Cow tools. Cow tools? You know cow tools. Oh, sure. Stieg Larsson, yes. So Stieg Larsson, Swedish, it's a crazy story to this day. Swedish writer, writes three Millennium books, the Millennium Trilogy, submits them, dies of a heart attack before any of them are published and then posthumously they become gigantic

bestsellers. Are there like conspiracies about his death? I don't think so. He was an unhealthy man. Like not in a terrible way or anything. His books are about conspiracy and then he died. You'd think maybe people would be like the man who ate poorly. The man who abused cigarettes.

You know, Mikael Blomqvist is obviously Stieg Larsson, like, very inconspicuously. Yeah, the hottest guy who's ever gone on computer. No, the whole point, especially in the books, is it's like,

you know, he's like, yeah, I work at this magazine and I'm kind of whatever. And every woman, including, like, Secret Service agents in the sequels is like, do you want to fuck me forever?

Like, can we just, like, continue? It's really funny. And early insight in the commentary where you're just like oh fincher just got how to do this is he was like my big take on this character is that he's kind of a bimbo that and that's the thing yeah which is the shift from watching the swedish version yeah i mean i think he's great he's great actor uh yeah yeah but the characterization is so much better in this of like he doesn't understand that he's a little actor. Yeah. Yeah. But the characterization is so much better in this of like, he doesn't understand that he's a little glib.

Which, but that's, Fran, we read the books, at least the first year we were both. I really think that is what he's like in the books. He's so chill and so like, hey man, whatever, that like, that's why he's attractive. Yeah, he's got a great vibe. But that's like sort of the old classic journalist vibe of like a guy who can get into any room. Who's good at listening. Talk to anyone. Exactly.

Listen to anyone. I don't think Nyquist is charming enough in the Swedish movies. I agree. He's pretty grumpy. And I love him. Yeah. I love him too. He's giving a more dramatic performance.

But he's not sort of playing with like charisma. Yeah. He's like taking being a journalist too seriously. Craig is on the right line of that also. This is one of the hottest any man's ever. Well, it's crazy. Okay. So I agree.

And Forky, who was kind of like, I don't know if I want to watch this. I know it has like multiple scenes of sexual assault. It's long. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, well, I'll kind of, you know, I'll let you know when you might want to like go get some, you know, tea or whatever. But then she's just like, Daniel Craig has never looked better. And I kind of agree. Yeah.

Yeah. Like sort of like more rumpled, sleepy Daniel Craig with glasses and a sweater is weirdly hotter than James Bond. Look, and this is another classic Griff Hetro cancel me opinion. Oh boy, here we go. But Daniel Craig is often a guy where I'm like, he's kind of goofy looking. I don't get him being a sex symbol. And I watched this and I'm like, he's kind of goofy looking. I don't get him being a sex symbol. And I watch this and I'm like, most handsome man in the world. It's like when I saw a fucking, what's it called?

Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood. And I said to you, like, Matthew Rhys is exactly how I'd like to look in my mind. And you were like, that guy, he's got like a black eye for half the movie. Sure, he looks pretty beat up in that movie. No, he's so hot in that movie. There's something about handsome actors looking kind of exquisitely haggard yeah which craig's just at the right balance of everything in the appeal of craig is that he doesn't look like he's had a ton of work like he's he's aging like real people he's a real fella it's

true that's a good point he's got a real face and he was you know he was handsome prior to that but he just has like a handsome older face kind of starting with this movie and going forward. Look, very pretty when he was young, but when he's young, it's a little intense. Well, and also his eyes when he's young, it's too intense. Like it seems like there's an old person trapped inside this young body. Yes. This is sort of the same thing with Viggo Mortensen, I think, where when I watched Portrait of a Lady in prep for when I came on. Sure.

He was a very pretty man in the 90s. I don't want to see him like this. I need to see him. And it's like he's got this Western this year that he directed that he's also in. With creeps. Vigo. With creeps. With creeps again.

Creeps riding around on a horse. Called The Dead Don't Hurt, I think. It's like someone rolled a dice on Western titles. It's like, yeah, dead, don't hurt. Give me 15 tickets. And I didn't see it. It was a tiff. But everyone walking out, I was like, how is it? They're like, oh, you know, it's okay. It's not bad., dad, don't hurt Joel. Give me 15 tickets. And I didn't see it. It was a tiff, but everyone walking out was like, how is it?

They're like, oh, you know, it's okay. It's not bad. Viggo's so hot in it. Yeah. And I'm like, damn, Viggo's just still collecting that chat.

But similar thing where it's like Viggo becomes hotter if he obscures his hotness a little bit. Totally. When you look at Viggo and he's just like

really young and really clean cut, you're like, something about this is like staring into the sun and then it's like grow out the facial hair a little bit do something weird to yourself right yeah

but yeah Craig in this is it's crazy he's a babe and you know he works in media he does independent media a hot person in independent media yeah that's crazy I'm looking at one right now. I know.

He's keeping the industry afloat with his bare hands. He's fucking putting it right on his shoulders. This is what I'm always telling the staff at Fran Magazine. It would be funny if, and everyone should subscribe

to Fran Magazine. I'll just put that right up top. Whatever. They should. They should. I don't care anymore. I do. I care.

But it would be funny if the trilogy ends with him being like, I think I will start a sub stack. Not that he has a Swedish accent in this movie. That would make more sense in the book, but we can talk about the end of the book when we talk about the end of the movie. But yes, obviously, and let's talk about, I'll crack open the dossier now, but just completely iconic that Rooney Mara is like, I'm piercing my nipples. I'm changing my hair. I'm going to learn a swedish accent daniel craig is like i was thinking i wear some glasses and that's the end of the work i do on this character and it fits his character so well i remember when i saw the trailer i went oh smart daniel craig's character has been made british so they justify

why all the other Swedish characters are speaking in English throughout the rest of the movie. It's like, hi, I'm Mikael Bankas. Do you want a filled bagel? I was like, that's actually smart of them. You could have them be like, I'm half Swedish, but I was raised in England or whatever. Like one fucking line at the beginning of the movie, and then I watch it and I'm like, oh, he's

meant to be Swedish and they're all just speaking English. Which is a classic movie thing, but for Fincher felt like a little bit of a cheat. I think maybe it's canonical that he went to school in London, though. Interesting. Everyone in Sweden speaks literally perfect English, too. Maybe not. Like, I mean, not, I mean, come at me, Swedes,

but my friend lives in Sweden now, and like, I think, you know, they're very intelligent, and they all learn English. I just had to physically restrain myself from doing the England bit. You bastard. I forgot, I don't know myself from doing the England bit. You bastard. I don't know what you're talking about. He went to uni. So, look.

Look. Look. It's, like, hurting me. I was there. I should say it. I was in England seeing the movie. The social network. All right, hush.

The social network comes out just a little more than a year before this film, obviously. Right. September 2010. Rooney has been cast when that has its festival debut. Rooney has been cast when this movie is... Sure, but look, so Fincher really doesn't...

When Social Network's released. Fincher doesn't really have any other projects, obviously, on the line in between these two, except for he was briefly rumored to be directing Pawn Sacrifice. Yes. But he says, no, I was never going to do that. I just, like, helped out with some, like, consulting on the script or something.

He also, in between Social network and dragon tattoo starts developing mind hunter with charlie's theron yes who is a producer was she supposed to be in it i believe she was supposed to play the anna tour part and it was going to be an hbo limited it was me on hbo right um and that would have been better but you know what know, what can I say? 2005, of course. Men Who Hate Women. Stieg Larsson's first novel. He dies at the age of 50. It is young. He died of a heart attack.

I now feel bad that I was like, he was unhealthy. No, that's why I'm like, he got got. The podcast co-hosts who throw shade. Like, I don't, you know. But obviously it was a tragic and young death. And if you want to Google him, it was a tragic and young death and it's if you want to google him it's a crazy story where his girlfriend says like i have more books that he's written outlines but i'll never release them because i don't i don't get any of the money

because like of swedish will laws and like his parents get the money and he hated his parents and you know then the parents sold the rights and someone else has written these sequels it's a crazy thing but they weren't based off the outlines or they no they weren't okay no those outlines have never been seen and she still has them still has that she wrote a book about like her life with him and you know yeah like anyway um she wrote a book that's like man these outlines are so fucking good if anyone in the government wants to change some laws um so uh that novel uh comes out in america and england and so on uh in 2008 okay uh and the uh two sequels come out in 2009 and it all explodes i was gonna say the book explodes like immediately yes right um kathleen kennedy uh who is working with fincher on benjamin button

hands fincher the book pretty much the minutes it's translated into English. He reads it, and as he says, he's like, it's 500 pages. It's about a bisexual motorcycle hacker in Stockholm fighting Nazis. I will never get to make this movie. I am not rolling another ball up a hill. Like, I don't want to.

And so, lesbian hacker on a motorcycle? I don't think so. That's his quote to Entertainment Weekly. Eventually, Sony picks it up. Amy Pascal and our favorite chill cheese string friend, Scott Rudin. Polly! Rudin brings on Steven Salian, a sort of heavyweight screenwriter, obviously,

who had just worked on Moneyball. But this is just like all Sony Pictures A-team. Exactly. Right. We're putting our best on it. And their number one choice is David Fincher for very obvious reasons. Like, it's like very clear why they would think he'd be good for this. Yeah, you also imagine they're like, man, social network's fucking shaping up well. We want to stay in the Fincher business.

This guy's holding a hot hand right now. Steven Zalian was the first choice to adapt The Silence of the Lambs, and his wife had told him, don't do it, that book's fucked up. Yeah. And he always regretted it. And so when this book came up, his wife apparently was like,

don't listen to me. Be a fucking freak. Yeah, yeah, you should do the darkest shit imaginable. He had his Ben Hosley dang-ass freak shirt on. And yes, as you say, it's Amy Pascal who pitches Fincher on this idea of like this is

a franchise for adults right like there's no chance at making a movie franchise that doesn't have to be for 11 year olds outside of something like this yes and fincher really does like that idea while the only chance for something like the dragon tattoo to be made in all of its perversions is to do it big as he says and the godfather is what he yeah compares it to it's wild to think that that's her pitch and he's like you're right things are so dire out there that this is the one way that a movie like this gets made a franchise like this gets made and they're saying that in 2010 yeah two years before the avengers comes out movie is it that she's like people don't want to see affairs anymore. That's the big Amy Pascal. Aloha.

Aloha. Thank you. Another blank check classic. When will I learn this lesson? People never want to watch movies about affairs. Which is an interesting point. I think about this all the time. When I read Aloha, I'm not like, you know what's wrong with this movie?

It has an affair in it. Have I said on Mike that I've gotten Aloha pill? I mean, you were flirting with it All the way back then I was flirting with it But also thought it was fundamentally broken And then I rewatched it in a hotel And I was like is this like a straight up masterpiece now

And bought on Blu-ray and watched all the alternate ending And opening and I think it kind of rolls now I'll check it out It's about the sky also I am aware of that I cracked that recently that's a new take We didn's new we didn't say that on the episode never not one time you seen aloha no means hello and goodbye yeah like shalom yes they should have made a sequel sort of mother's day new year's yeah just salutations that are also farewells em Emma Stone could play Jewish. Why not? It's Maestro, no?

Bradley Cooper? No. Yes, no, it's Bradley. Yeah, it's Maestro. Okay. But he has a weird foot instead of a weird nose. He's got an extra toe. Is that true?

Yeah. Or his toe is injured by the war or something? He was in a... Which war? There was a mine incident. That's a good question. They sewed someone else's toe onto his foot. He has someone else's toe sewed onto his foot.

Okay. Which war is it? Bosnia? Iraq? I cannot remember. Afghanistan? I don't know. So, Zellin is like, okay, I didn't watch the Swedish movie because I didn't want that to mess with me.

I really love the book, but basically the big problem is just what do you remove? I think this is an excellent piece of adaptation that does not really, like, skip anything major. Like, it feels like a very good abridgment of the book. Yes. I think I prefer the end of the book, actually. Interesting. But... I mean, they have...

This and the book have the same ending. Basically. Basically. Like, you know, which is Lisbeth allowing herself to feel something and then getting hurt. Like, Blomquist is like, I'm going to publish about what happened here. Yes. And Wenger is like, no, you're not. That's all cut out of the movie. Which I just think is this, like, the thing that sort of turns him against is him being like, well, I don't really have good stuff for you on the Wennerstrom thing.

And I can't let you publish about this because, like, I have to keep my business afloat. So actually, no one should ever know about this in a way that poisons their relationship in a, I think, much more poignant way. Right. This movie just ends with, like, I mean, I understand that like. But it's like. There was only so much they could do. Right. I'm just like.

Yeah. That's interesting. In that kind of coda section. Yeah. But what's interesting about the movie. It's already like a 30 minute coda. It's long. It ends on so much more of an emotional character note than a plot note.

Which is in the book too, obviously. Sure. The reunion. But putting the emphasis on that weirdly makes you more eager to see the sequel, I find. But putting the emphasis on that weirdly makes you more eager to see the sequel, I find, than even if what you're saying sets up a sequel well. I find the place these two characters are in relative to each other at the end of the movie so affecting that I'm like, I want to fucking watch more of them. Henrik Wenger is not really in the sequels at all, but Harriet is.

Okay. And is like in charge of Millennium. And you'll never believe who she's sleeping with. Who? I don't know. Okay. And is like in charge of Millennium. Yeah. And you'll never believe who she's sleeping with. Who? I don't know. Okay. Okay. You have to guess.

Okay. There's one person who everyone's sleeping with in the Millennium Trilogy. I'll tell you that much. But like literally there's a secret agent in one of the sequels who's like, I think I'm going to fuck you. And I'm like, I wanted to go into the book and be like, your job is definitely to not fuck this man. Like you are working for swedish secret service like you probably shouldn't do this uh she's like he's kind of hot though even though he's like fucking four other people

things fincher said on the commentary about adapting this with zillion is that they were like trying so hard to figure out how to fit it into a three act structure because of how oddly shaped the book is. It's two parallel stories that don't meet for half the book. Right. They do not meet until one hour and one 15 minutes. It's halfway. One hour and one 15. It's the halfway mark.

Yeah. One hour and 15 minutes into a movie. That's an hour, two and a half basically. Um, he said there was just the point where he and Zalenlin kept on trying to squeeze it in and they just went like, we just need to accept this as a five-act story, which is unconventional, but

if they're ever going to let us do it, they're going to let us do it on this movie. And he said once they did that, it adapted very cleanly. Right. And that is exactly what they do. It feels smoother than the... I'm not going to rag on the Swedish version, but it feels smoother in that the Swedish one is almost so one-to-one that it has no act structure.

It just feels like transposing. A Wikipedia entry movie. Yeah. That is how the, yeah. Whereas it feels like genuinely dramatic when he shows up at Lisbeth's door in this. I don't know how to define how this movie pulls it off, but somehow the hour and 15 minutes leading up to them finally meeting in person feels like it is loaded with tension as if it's like Brody coming face to face with the shark. Finally, right?

Right. Where you just feel the force of this movie, like slowly pulling these two people together, rather than it like having to trudge along to the exciting part. Yeah. two people together rather than it like having to trudge along to the exciting part yeah um of course they have to kind of front the fact that a lot of this this movie has a lot of rape in it uh and you know sort of like very very difficult uh material and honestly almost all of that material is more crucial for the sequels like if you're watching this movie you're kind of like why do i even need to see this whole plot about Lisbeth

and her caretaker that doesn't resolve? And it's like, well, that actually all is crucial to the sequels. But I think it is also just pivotal to the mindset she's in when she meets Mikkel,

obviously, and he says, I want you to help me catch a killer of women. And she looks at him and it looks like she's looking through you and, you know, your fucking shiver and it's so good. Fincher though also says like uh i wanted this material to be very offensive rape and movies shouldn't be titling it should be offensive it's the power of clockwork

orange it's revolting i wholly respect straw dogs or even star 80 there are moments in that movie that just completely challenge your ideas of revenge just wanted to note that he mentioned star 80 but he loves fossey all that jazz is like a recurring influence he always cites um but yes like uh the point is to put that subject matter in proper proper perspective which for me relates to both her subjugation and the inhumane treatment that she suffers at the hands of this man her retribution i don't want to see people cheering which you don't really no because it's so bleak and nightmarish even when she's like you know getting her revenge um and uh yeah uh niels arden oplev who made the swedish movie says uh like uh you know he wasn't worried everyone who

loves film will go see the original he said what would you want to see the french version of la femme nikita or the american one go off bro like if i heard fincher was remaking a movie i just did i i might like be like oh shit like yeah boy but whatever that's a bit of a like scorsese infernal affairs thing where you're just like look if that guy wants to take a crack at it, who am I to stand in the way? Yeah. Rooney Mara. Okay, so the casting of this film... Big story. Daniel Craig, obviously...

Hey, Daniel Craig, will you do this? Sure, let's just work out the schedule. The rumor was that he wanted Brad Pitt originally. I guess. I don't know. The way they talk about it is that was pretty done deal. He meets with Craig to try to convince him to take the role while filming Tintin. Right.

Craig had not been in a movie for three years that was in theaters. Yes. And then this year he has Tintin, this, Defiance is this year, and there's Cowboys and Aliens, right? Yeah. Skyfall's the following year? Yeah. Spring, summer 2012. Skyfall the following year.

Or fall 2012 There was some Bond rights issue That held up The run between those two movies There was a bit of a Bond nonsense When's Quantum? 2009? Quantum's 08? I'm sorry, Defiance is in 08 Quantum's in 08

2011, The Four are Cowboys and Aliens, Tintin, Dragon Tattoo And Dreamhouse Which I believe was maybe a delayed movie Dreamhouse? that's where the Jim Sheridan movie where he meets

Rachel Weisz he built his own Dreamhouse off of that movie I love them Family is a real home is this like a Stephen King thing? no

it's like a horror that's Dreamcatcher it's like a sort of horror thriller movie it's like a Stephen King movie not based on a Stephen King book I understand but yeah no he Fincher goes to meet him him on the set of tintin and he's wearing like the blue

onesie pajamas uh sure with with a cowboy with a pirate hat on his head he just took the cowboy hat off his head obviously because he was yes fighting the aliens red rackham's trailer treasure treasure jesus fucking christ uh but yes craig i think smartly even though every top actress in hollywood is fighting for this role i think fincher knows i gotta get an a-lister to play blomqvist so i have a little more latitude on lisbeth uh and it was such an extended casting search it was like the most extreme i feel like the press at the time was like this is it had been a while also since the trades had gotten to do that the sort of like you know this is the hottest role in a decade like every young ingenue wants it it's a scarlet o'hara like fucking gum at the wind shit and i think even like when we get this sort of hullabaloo

about like superhero casting it's like yeah but this is like the fifth person to play this part who gives a shit right you know versus this being like first American crack at it the new mirror paste thing was casting a bit of a shadow but every person's up for it and Fincher just like defined it so well there's so many quotes he has about why he cast Rooney Mara that have like lingered with me for years but on the commentary he said that like Sonyy did not want rooney mara and he had to say to them i want the last puppy in the window like that is the most fundamental quality we're looking for is someone who cannot be discouraged and regardless someone who cannot be discouraged and who is getting no encouragement if someone is too tapped for this window. I love Last Puppy in the Window.

That's really clever. Yes. But he was like, something fundamental to the casting of this part is someone who would have to fight to get this part. And who no one could see playing this part. I mean, he says he required some convincing because he was initially like, you know, you're Erica Albright, I still have you in that, you know,

mode in my brain. And she had to convince him a little bit. She kind of outlasted everyone, though. Right. She also has this whole story of, like, I wasn't even sure I wanted to go in for it. And then she says, I saw some of the names up for the part. And I was like, if they're going in, I should go in for it. I'm as right for it as anyone else.

Yeah. She did five separate screen tests. Not even just, like, auditions, but, like, separate screen tests not even just like auditions but like proper screen tests and two of them were in the batman suit which is weird just put it on always the kilmer suit everyone auditions wearing the kilmer suit for every project um but he was like almost even before the point where he's trying to convince sony to cast her he's almost trying to talk himself out of casting her. Because, yes, out of his experience with her,

he was like, she's not right for this. And he'd, like, test her on a specific thing and be like, this is the thing I need to see out of you. And he was like, every time I said new hurdle, she jumped over the hurdle without hesitation. Until it became so clear that she was the only person. Do you want to read off the... I mean, so many names are connected.

Emily Browning, Ava Green. Some of them are like Anne Hathaway, Scarlett Johansson. was the only person do you want to read off i mean so many names are connected emily browning eva green some of them are like anne hathaway scarlett johansson you're like i sure you know johansson did by did a test yeah but like i mean fincher cites her as she was so wrong that was the example right right he even uh he was like she was actually incredibly good right he says she did a great job you're never gonna get past the fact that she's scarlett johansson it's another one of these quotes i think about where he's like the thing about casting rooney mara is she's like very beautiful but also she's a little bit like et he was like et was the example i kept on making to the studio of like if et merchandise was on

the shelves before the movie came out people be like what the fuck is that but basically i can read you the quote please what is this little squishy thing uh but then yes after you see the movie you're like you know he hides under the table he grabs the reese's pieces you love him like yes he looks like an ugly little creature before you see et and after you see et you see E.T., you're like, I need E.T. in my life. And he basically was just like, there is no way to not make Scarlett Johansson titillating. Some of these other names, too, like Anne Hathaway or Jennifer Lawrence or Natalie Portman. I also just don't buy some of those names.

The supposed final four are Rooney Mara, Lea Seydoux, which is sort of... The final four makes perfect sense. Pre-Blue is the Warmest Color. Yes. Sarah Snook. Yes. Good call. Oh, yeah.

Ahead of the curve. 100%. And Sophie Lowe, who's like an Australian actress I don't know very well. She's good. When do you know her from? I don't know. She's done a lot of Australian stuff. Yeah.

She's done a lot of australian stuff yeah um she's done a lot of american stuff too okay the the thing uh the scrawled johansson thing about her being like fundamentally wrong the proof that she's wrong for this part is uh uh under the skin right uh yeah because you're like that's a movie premised on even if scrawled johansson acts like a sociopathic alien everyone in the world wants to sleep with her. She's a walking honey trap. That's the point. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

She's always best when I think like in conversation with her star persona. Totally. In something, which is why she's so good in like Asteroid City or whatever. Or like Hail Caesar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But this, like you need someone who.

Doesn't have that. Right. I always think when there are these big sort of like casting things the last of which i can really remember being that significant was like the elvis casting sure where the person you pick you're just like uh okay yeah and that winds up having the most room for surprise and i think success what i always like when it's just like fuck this like audition must be something really special yeah usually when right when they cast someone you don't know very well you're like clearly they're incredible like because why else would he be beating out you know

whatever miles teller the other thing i don't know if it's in the dossier but i think about this a lot because i think it's one of the greatest definitions of like uh what you look for in casting right where fincher was like um a lot of a lot of these actresses, especially like the bigger names on this list, came in and like gave really good performances, but they were performances. They were like constructions, right? And I believe very strongly in like filmmaking is really tedious and long.

My movies are longer and more tedious than most. You know, I'm paraphrasing here, but like I'm going to do a million takes with people. We're going to be filming at like four o'clock in the morning in like the freezing like Nordic weather. You need to cast someone where there is some fundamental quality within them that is unbeatable,

that will be in their system no matter what at all times of the day. Because you need the thing that even when they're just depleted is going to come across on camera. And he was just like, she had whatever that weird alien energy was where it's like,

as much as this is a performance and a construction, that wasn't an affectation. And so I just knew no matter what, if I put the camera in front of her, that's going to come across. Which is such a smart explanation of like,

you need to identify what the fundamental quality is that that person is innately projecting whether conscious or not that is always going to be there no matter what in every single take it's interesting the way that this sort of sets the tone for the rest of the stuff that she winds up doing over the course of the next decade such that now i think social network feels like kind of the anomaly. Where it's like, okay, so then she's just normal in this one? Yeah. Like this even, like, you know, famously she like, you know, gets a bunch of the piercings and bleaches her eyebrows for this.

But I think it also like fundamentally changed her look as a celebrity where she's got this kind of weird like gothic thing since then. Yeah. That she's only continued to like pursue. But then obviously. I don't know to what extent that was sort of under the surface yeah or if this like awoke that in her well yeah but it's like right she didn't think she was right for it he didn't think she was right for and somewhere along the way there was just some frequency there that both of them tapped into and he was also just

like the more we tested her it felt like she had the best understanding of this character of anyone. Like, talking to her across the audition process. No one seemed as kind of, like, latched on to what was going on. Um, so, okay. Yeah, you know, a lot of this Rini Mara stuff, like, the Interview Magazine profile where they're talking about how she like beat someone up, like who accosted her. And like, you know, there's a lot of weird shit around that I am honestly a little tired by. I feel like the hype drowned this movie a little bit. Absolutely.

You know, like the sort of pre-casting, all that stuff. But yes, she went crazy method. She learned how to go on the internet. She went to Google.com yes, she went crazy method. She learned how to go on the internet. She went to Google.com and would Google crime. Yes. And then she could find all of the world's crimes. And Fincher would, don't go too deep. You need to be able to come back from this character.

Obviously, her run basically from like social network to Carol is pretty strong. And then since then I have, you know, felt a little like... She's worked less the last five years.

She's made a lot of movies. In the last five years? You know what she's so good at? Maybe not in the last five years, but since Carol. After Carol? She's so good as a voice in Kubo and the Two Strings.

She is very good in Kubo. That is like a crazy voice performance. That's why I regret all white voice cast of Kubo. They're all really performance. Yes. That's why I regret not nominated for I like the entire cast of Kubo. Wow. They're all really good. Yeah. Yeah.

And she plays like multiple because her character is like She plays two characters. Remember Pan? Karasu and Washi. Yeah. That's the thing.

It's like post-Carol it's like Pan, Lion, The Discovery, Song to Song. I'm the one guy who likes Lion. Which one's Lion again?

Is that the Dev Patel one? That's Dev Patel, yeah. Lion's not bad, but that's... I think that movie's pretty good. That's one of those, like, Rooney Marr, do you not know that you don't need to take this part? Yeah, you don't have to be the girlfriend.

Her role is thankless in that. That's true. That movie's, I think, okay. Yeah. I like it, whatever. You know, Ghost Story, I think, you know, she's good in it, but obviously it's sort of a...

She's incredibly good in Ghost Story. Yeah. She eats the pie. I think, you know, she's good in it, but obviously it's sort of a... She's incredibly good in Ghost Story. Yeah. She eats the pie. I think that's the start of her as in what I call Wounded Bird. Like, where I'm like, can you do anything? I say that as a compliment. Scared Bird is famously my description of women I find attractive. Don't worry, he wouldn't get far on foot.

You know, Mary Magdalene, obviously, that doesn't really work out. Nightmare Alley. Works out in her personal life. Well, sure. Then I'm happy for her. A happy home. Did you see Mary Magdalene? No one sees that.

No one saw it. Well, you see stuff. Thank you so much. But no, I did not see Mary Magdalene. No, Nightmare Alley where I'm like, Rooney's back. And then you watch Nightmare Alley and you're like, Rooney had the worst role. I don't even remember who she is in that. She's the, like, his love interest for the first half of the movie.

She's the slept on kind of, like, nice girl whose kindness is sort of taken advantage of. I really only remember Blanchett in that. Well, because Blanchett shows up and is like, all right, Carol, get out of here. She basically, the second half of the movie, becomes his ignored wife while he falls in love

with Blanchard. And then I do think she's good in woman talking, but I also think she's great in women talking. But I think she kind of has the most sort of functional role in it

in a way. I never saw it. So a lot of the sporting cast get to have more fun. I didn't think they should talk. I didn't think they should talk. Why don't you sit

your ass down on a bale of hay just like the rest of them do in that movie? What is she arguing on? Is she like, we should go or bale of hay just like the rest of them do in that movie what is she arguing on is she like we should go or we should she's the sort of leader yeah being like we need to her argument is basically yeah we should talk she's pro talk yeah right right she's like let's start talking she's like i don't want to and also it's weird that we were both lizabeth salander yeah she's blonde jesse buckley's like can i get a shot i just she's see-through in

that movie because that movie is not black and white, but they color grade it so extremely. Yeah, it's Zack Snyder flashback. The color palette of that movie is not kind to Rooney Mara in particular. It is unfair. I don't think it's kind to any of them. No, but it's worse for her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because she already is made out of rice paper.

She's made out of wet napkins. She really is. That's well put. But obviously that suits Dragon Tattoo so well because the whole point of Lisbeth is you're like, ooh, is this a ghost

that just walked through? But then also, she might taser you. Yeah. You know, she's a wiry little, you know. Yeah, she rules in that.

She's so good. It's great. So good. They shoot, yeah, Daniel Craig, you know, he's James Bond. You may have heard of that

He'd had a busy 2008 And he has a busy 2011 They have to sort of fit him in Around this movie and around Cowboys and Aliens and all that And Tintin and all that shit Tintin and all that shit Love Tintin

Tintin, another movie that's Another 2011 movie where I'm like, where's my sequel? Yep. Maybe combine the two. The reporter with the flipped up hair. Yeah. Okay.

Maybe that's how you get around Craig's salary. The reporter with the white dog. You replace. Oh, I thought you were going to say Rooney aging as you just make her. Either or. But I like the idea of Lisbeth and Tintin teaming up. Just mush the books together.

May I kill him? That's sort of like a pan-European thing. It could be good for that continent to have that. Right, and it's half mocap and half real. Craig says that David Fincher made him start drinking wine and eating pasta because he was like, you look too much like an action hero. You have to look like a journalist. Craig said, the minute I tried the Swedish accent,

I was like, it sounds dreadful. Can I just have my regular accent? And Fincher was like, fine. Which, again, if I'm Rooney Mara, I'm scratching at my nipple piercing. I'm like, oh, it's fine for him to just do that? Okay, well, all right. They shot this movie for, I believe,

seven months. Yeah, they started in September and they weren't done until April. The thing... But Fincher says part of that is

because Sweden made them work slow because you only do eight hours a day by labor law in Sweden. He liked working in Sweden in a lot of ways because he says

the crew can be different. Like, there's less union rules about, like, you know, people can do multifunctional things.al things but he's like we were just i know he was like and i insisted we do sweden because i didn't want like montreal to be playing sweden like yeah uh the thing that came up in the commentary a lot and i've been trying to watch most of these movies with commentaries he does really good commentaries yeah um it felt like 35 of this movie was reshot.

You talk about the shooting being really long. They went back to Sweden. Yes. They did four months in Sweden, then they did some fill-in stuff, and then they did go back to Sweden for like a month or two. But not even like that reshoots were tacked on, where he, like, in the run of regular production,

they would shoot a sequence, and it was most of, like, the big sequences, and he'd just be like, we didn't get it the first time. We went back, you're watching the second version of the scene. Well, the other thing is, he hired swedish cinematographer named frederick beccar and then a few weeks in they fired him yes and brought in jeff cronin with his uh social network collaborator uh and fincher is kind of like i was trying maybe to be a little too cute with the like let's really

go swedish with it and then me and this guy were not seeing eye to eye and all and i relented and was like let me get my guy in here yeah uh but certainly cornyweth was like i wanted to do a whole spend night fist thing like you know warm fires cold rooms you know like i wanted to be swedish with it an argument for this being like fincher being given the case to the kingdom sort of blank check status there's one of the scenes where they're both looking at the laptop together in the latter half of the movie um she's got this like tiny little gap in her hair that feels like it happened by accident which he refers to as like the louise brooks gap sure where her bangs are down and there's this little split off center and he was like so we shot this scene and then like four

months later we re-shot it and it wasn't until i cut the two pieces together because we were using pieces from both that i realized the gap wasn't in there so lola the special effects house who's like one of the they do like all the de-aging they're like top level he was like they had to track in the gap over and over again and i think it's really worth it. I mean, I get it. I couldn't lose it. And you're like, oh, they really just let him do whatever the fuck he wanted on this movie.

I mean, that's such a classic Fincher story. That probably cost $250,000. Yeah, well, I paid for it. I thought it was crucial. Well, good job. Thank you. I mean, I didn't have the money. I was pretty poor back then.

I had to take out a lot of money. Yeah, and our fucking Patreon's paying off. Still right. I'm still fucking going to the bank. Are you the bangs guy? And I'm the bank are you the bangs guy and i'm like i'm the bangs guy they got like 12 leans on you um i just think if you're gonna have a character with bangs you have to be honest the bangs experience yeah even if that involves special effects i'm not saying he's wrong but it's just like you can tell how relieved he is

that they were like and it was complicated and they had to track it and her head keeps on moving in this shot but i really think it was important feels like a funny like fincher self-challenged to have a character with bangs yes then you got to keep track of the bangs yeah um the girl with the dragon tattoo uh you know who's in this movie who we both like goran viznich goran viznich who, of course, I feel like is best known as... The villain from Ice Age. Oh, okay. Luka Kovac on ER.

And that's from when you watched ER, right? Like, you watched the latter seasons of ER live, right? Have we talked about this? Yeah, it was just, I feel like... You were an Abby Luka guy. Yes. Because you were too young for... I was too young for, like, the Clooney.

I remember, like, tail end of Dr. Green. That's his name, right? Mark Green. The tail end of that. And then, yeah, I'm with, like the Clooney. I remember like tail end of Dr. Green. That's his name, right? Mark Green. The tail end of that. And then, yeah, I'm with like Shane West. Sure. And Parminder Nagra and like that whole. I just feel like ER was always on.

But Goran really sort of imprinted on me. He was like the bad saber tooth from Diego's pack. And in ER too. The only kind of legitimately threatening villain in the Ice Age series. In the original? In the first one, yeah. I saw that. Yeah. He's good in it. I wonder if my mom was like, it's got the guy from ER. You know why I remember that it's him? Because my

mom fucking did that. I think this might have been said to me. She was there for Visich? Yeah. She wasn't a Dennis Leary fan? No, I mean, because my mom and I... Leguizamo always does a voice. I love a voice. I remember I went to see an opening weekend with Romley, and I remember for whatever reason, it was playing at the Ziegfeld.

Sure, biggest screen needed. And for whatever reason, it was a big hit, the first one. Yeah, for those 480p graphics. Yeah. For whatever reason, the marquee outside the Ziegfeld was Romano, Leguizamo, Leary, Visnich. They put Visnich over the title. And we're walking up

and my mom goes, oh, Visnich is in this. Like, she finally got excited. Look, anyway. I mean, I feel that anytime he's in there. He is not very important. Again, a role that is in every book,

that guy, who's sort of like one of the... Because the whole thing with Lisbeth is either people either see her and are like, do i exploit this person sure and then there are a few characters like him and like um her original caretaker where they obviously sort of you know they're like she's weird but i'll go with it right quasi guardians yeah and they just accept how prickly she is like uh you know there's two times in the movie, I think that she,

I believe, that she walks into a room and says, hey, hey, which is so sweet. It's pretty much the only time you ever hear her say something sweet. It's the nicest thing of all time.

And once is when she's going to see her original caretaker and she finds that he's had a stroke. And the second time is when she's looking for Blomquist late in the movie. And when she says it for Blomquist, you're like,

fuck, she's really, it's when he's already tied up by Scar's guard at that point. It movie. And when she says it for Blomquist, you're like, fuck. She's really, it's when he's already tied up by Skarsgård at that point. It's so cute when she says it. It's so cute. And it's like literally the only cute thing she does. At least.

Hey, hey. Hey, hey. I think she does a lot of cute things. She does a lot of cute stuff. She's very cute. Tattoos, I'm a rapist pig on someone. When she's like, I got it with the memory.

No, no, no. She does tons of that. I mean, it's just crazy. Also, May I Kill Him? May I Kill Him is so good. It's cute. it with the memory no no she does i mean it's great it's just crazy um but so uh may i kill him may i kill him is so good it's cute yeah it's adorable it kind of is yeah like that she clearly is like i i should just triple check i my read on this situation is that this guy was trying to kill my friend but i i know that sometimes I'm not great with social stuff. So maybe I should just check.

Fincher, him talking about that line was really interesting. He said that line was his creation. And that it was not meant to be like. Because in the book, he just. She just goes after him. Skarsgård just drives off a cliff. Right. And he said it's not that she's like.

If she goes after him, it doesn't really matter. Asking for his permission to kill him. Right. it's that she knows that she doesn't understand social cues right that she now respects his sense of morality and that she's asking him am i right in thinking that i should go kill him now right right right like does that have i put this all together correct it's also you have the whole first half of this movie that's sort of doubling down on the violence against her and kind of perpetuated by her. And I spent a long time talking to our friend Caroline Simons about the fact that her big Oscar scene was when she's threatening the new caretaker. And she's like, I'm crazy. And she's got the black eye makeup.

It's a very cool scene, but it's like, that's so like non-indicative of what a lot of that performance is. That's Lisbeth doing a performance. She knows she's there to terrify him into submission. Yes. And it's sort of the only callback to that first part. I was like, remember, she's crazy technically, which we've spent the whole movie kind of disproving also. Her Oscar scene should be their first meeting.

Totally. That's the scene where you're like holy fucking when she looks at him when he says the killer of women thing yeah yeah yeah but that whole thing as we said the thing with the photo all that is just i got it yeah um yes it's in yeah it's another thing fincher said of just like i i want to make it really important that she's like a character of the information age. Right. And that the way she processes information is totally different.

Beyond the fact that she has a photographic memory, she brings her camera around with her because like she's not she's never going to write something down. Right. Right. Everything is like save it as a file. Blankus is this very like he is like his post-it notes color coded on a wall. He's a real sort of reporter. Yeah. In every way. Everything has to get written down.

It was pointed out to me how funny it is that she uses a Mac, and just that a character like that would definitely have a PC. You think so? Laptop. Well, she would have Linux, you're right. Yeah, she'd be on weird programs that Mac would almost be not customizable enough for. I think she's such a slut for Apple, though. No, I totally know why.

Well, I believe in the books she uses Macs. No, I know what's weird. customizable and she's such a slut for apple though no i i totally know why well i believe in the book she uses max like it is it is no i know it's weird that is a funny part of the book is they're always like she used like this kind of macbook pro generation whatever the book is like very it's like fucking game of thrones where they start talking about pigeon pie or whatever you know for two paragraphs and you're like i don't care like this is the data plan she has on her phone like literally he's like she wanted a macbook pro g3 and you're like, I don't care. They're like, this is the data plan she has on her phone. Like, literally, he's like, she wanted a MacBook Pro G3. And you're like, okay, I get it. A good computer.

The books after Larson died are mostly about firmware updates. That was the one thing legally you could still write about. They publish the terms and agreements in full in the book. Right, it's actually two whole chapters of just, like, do you accept? She actually reads them? She reads the whole thing? She's the one? She's got a photographic memory. the girl who reads the terms and agreements um but then she's like i don't agree because she's a cyber criminal she goes no no uh yeah no the

books um have a lot of hacker stuff in them that i have always sort of accepted as a little cheesy like i don't think steve larson was an expert on cyber security oh sure because the books are just often it's like then elizabeth did something magic and she could see the guy's screen and you're like okay well that's sort of her main trick she just gets on the guy's screen and then she like sits and watches someone else use computer right this gets to a question i've been meaning to ask like this little bug that goes into people's brains yes i've been burning to ask okay ben ben can you get the fire extinguisher? Ben Hosley. I'm on fire with this question.

How much does Rooney Mara as Elizabeth Salander in this film match your conception of a thing you've pitched many times as a dramatic conceit you want to see in film? I know where you're going. Yes. Witches. Yes. Witch hacker. I know she's not literally a witch in there she's not a wiccan but they're it's there she's kind of i think this is what's in ben's mind's eye a hundred percent with literal magic involved just to quickly give some context for maybe some listener doesn't know uh what we're talking about sure i've had this concept for a long time which is that i think that there should be witch for maybe some listener who doesn't know what we're talking about. Sure.

I've had this concept for a long time, which is that I think that there should be witch hackers in movies where they literally manipulate the computer through spell. Right, they don't even touch the keyboard. Correct. They just use, like, I've kind of pictured purple magic.

Purple magic? That just goes to the keyboard. Do you think that's what the old mentor of the witch says? Like, now you will learn the purple magic. Yes. This magic is purple. Yes. And then they stare into a cauldron

and they look at algorithms. Now, at one point, Fran... I was nodding off there. I'm like, boring. Which is why we're staring at the algorithm. Algorithm. At one point, Fran, Ben folded this concept Into his great unfinished screenplay

Night Eggs About a detective who eats eggs at night Which Chris Weitz was supposed to produce And is now kind of indefinitely postponed Not indefinitely You're in talks Indefinitely doesn't mean permanently The strike, girl, the strike

Indefinitely Chris Weitz and his wife Came to visit New York a couple months ago, and we went and had drinks with them, David and I. Okay, thanks for the invite. I'll tell you next time. Ben could not make it. Okay, so I could have. And Chris's wife does not listen to the podcast, is a lovely person who's smart and has better things to do with her time. And we were trying to explain the night eggs

thing to her all of which was new to her and chris was like yeah and i wrote pages myself and i was like working on this with ben and she was like what's the premise we're like detective he eats eggs at night and she was like okay it's a little thing you could never finish that screenplay we're like hacker witches and she went wait hacker witches is interesting and she truly was like yeah she was like chris that actually you could spin that off into something. Hacker Witches has some juice to it. Damn. Okay, well, I've been talking about this idea

on the podcast for many years. Just in case anyone tries to steal. TM, TM, TM. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But no, you're right. Her look, the aesthetic. I was going to ask you about her look.

The kind of like i mean how would you like it's goth yes it's but it's like we were sort of looking up the clothes too it's a lot of rick rick owens a lot of oh perfect well it's funny because sometimes you have a character both spot on well you have a character who like dresses like shit in a movie but you know sort of as someone watching, that's a $100 t-shirt that they've made look bad. But it's like, they don't even try to really make her look that grubby. For someone who has to

ask for money for a computer, she's in designer clothes. Well, and like, Merchandise Spotlight, this is a movie that had fucking high thread count tie-ins where they were just like, we collabed with this fashion brand and everything she wears is available for sale. Fuck you, you fucking fuck.

Oh, really? Yeah. They did a lot of... Oh, yeah, I love when she's in the fuck you. She has a shirt that says, fuck you, you fucking fuck. In the big scene. Maybe that's why that can't be the Oscar scene.

Because it says, fuck you, you fucking fuck. But in the trailer, they erase her shirt digitally to allow that scene in the trailer. It says, screw you, you screwing screw. It doesn't say that. Downtown Griffin Ames grew up in the West Village. And 8th Street between 5th and 6th used to be 70% smoke shops that also sold novelty t-shirts.

And fuck you, you fucking fuck was like the shirt that was in every single window growing up where my dad would be like, cover your eyes. And that shirt was just like, it loomed so large in my childhood because we walked by there like every day and you'd see it multiple times the moment that shirt comes on screen it felt to me like a surprise marvel cameo where i'm like holy shit they did they put it on the i never thought they'd adapt it it's from blue velvet right the shirt the the phrase the quote? Hopper says that in Blue Velvet. And I'm sure like a man had said that before in history. Yeah. But like I do think that is what the original reference is.

I think of it as being the shirt in the window. It's from t-shirts, right. You know, you're like, yeah, the famous quote from t-shirt. It's also funny because it's like, right, that's a shirt you can't trademark. But also every one of them had the exact same font. It is the exact shirt in this movie. I've never seen a different look for one of those shirts. That and same shit, different day.

And there's a third shirt. There were three shirts where it was like there's three shirts with swear words on them that are in every stall at Canada Market. Like when I was a kid. Yeah, one tequila, two tequila, three tequila floor. I mean, that's pretty funny. I feel like there were a lot of shirts that were like cartoon characters with bloodshot eyes holding a bong,

and they were like Sonic the Weedhog and shit. A lot of Sonic, yeah, a lot of Calvin peeing shit on 8th Street. Yeah. So in The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, for the first hour of the movie, there are two storylines. So the first storyline follows Mikael Bunkfist yes uh sweden's hottest libel artist a uh journalist up for a hip indie magazine called

millennium yeah right yeah uh mikhail magazine who has been disgraced uh because he lost a libel suit in swedish court against an industrialist it's the the Michael Clayton thing I love of like you start this movie with a character who could be kind of just like a functionary sort of like a cipher, you know, investigator kind of thing. And you start it with the guy in the hole. You start it with like this guy's broken because of stuff that happened before this movie started.

You know? Yeah, and it's just that like because he's that happened before this movie started you know yeah and it's just like because he's fucked up it's you know his reputation's at stake but also what's at stake is like he's bored yeah he's got to do something and in a lot of ways like the story he finds himself in doesn't really have to do with the mistakes he's made in the past they they push him into making those decisions and it dovetails in certain ways, but it's just like, like every time you cut to fucking Michael Clayton selling off the supplies of his failed restaurant,

you know, where you're just like, this guy's got this thing. Do you think it was a good restaurant? No, I think it sucked. No. Like the food was bad. Yeah, you know what they don't get into? Like the Vine was probably okay,

but the food was bad. It was just a TGI Friday's franchisee. I don't think any food was good in like 2007. We're not like, ah, what a great era for food. I think restaurants, there were some restaurants serving good food. No, no, it's right about this. No. Ratatouille comes out in 2007.

That's when food got good. They started hiring rats. Ratatouille, and then it was chef. Yes. And then it was burnt. Yes. And the bear. And then da bear.

Da bear, of course, inventeded food And we thank him for it He was the one who put I'm trying to think of one of the bear's big dishes now Put cannoli Made cannoli Well he invented drinking out of a quart Plastic container No one had ever done that before

He invented saying corner Has anyone done a recut of I love the bear to be clear Ratatouille in the style of the bear and call it the rat? I think there is a whole quadrant of AI just doing that.

They're not stopping doing that. Over and over again. Like there's a whole field in Montana with AI bots just pulsing out what if the bear was Ratatouille. The Spider-Man nursery rhymes like on YouTube.

But I don't want the AI version. I want someone to get in there, get their hands dirty, do a recut. What if they were like, shining, but it's a romantic comedy. But it's Ratatouille. Yeah, good, fun. It's a Ratatouille alternate universe. Okay, so Blunkfist gets a call from industrialist,

other industrialist, Henrik Wenger, played by Christopher Plummer. Christopher Plummer, I'm going to put it forward. Best 80s of any actor. You're obsessed with his 80s. And we don't mean the 1980s. We mean. The decade he was 80.

The decade he was 80. Does he die? Did he hit 90? He died at the age of 91. Okay. So I extend the run to the 90s. I think Jessica Tandy is the only person you could argue surged that hard that late. So Christopher Plummer would have turned 80 in, let's find out. Let's just find out.

Let's all settle down. 2009. Okay. So we're going to start with, when is, yeah, okay, 2009. Last station, he gets his first Oscar nomination. Okay. So we're going to start with... When is... Yeah, okay, 2009. Last station, he gets his first Oscar nomination. No!

2009. Up. Uh-huh. Remember, he's the voice of the villain? Yeah, Charles Muntz. Apparently, he was Dr. Parnassus? He's one of them. Oh, he's only one of them?

I forgot if that... Oh, no, no, you're right. Yeah, I think Dr. Parnassus is this wizard of Oz. You're right. Yes, it's the other guys. The other guys are all called whatever. Alex or some shit. Tony, yeah.

Last Station indeed gets his first Oscar nomination after so many years playing Tolstoy. It was viewed as a career achievement kind of tip of the cap, and you're like, whatever. Sort of the Langella nom. I do not remember this movie. He plays Tolstoy. It's like, what if Tolst plays tolstoy it's like what

if tolstoy and tolstoy wife played by helen mirren yelled at each other and around that james mcavoy had a crush on i want to see carrie condon yes okay this sounds like a movie i'll like yeah it was one of those great boring kind of sucks piss but it's kind of a bad and you were just like this kind of sucks the plumummer's had this incredible career. He got snubbed a bunch of times. He should have gotten NOMS. They're finally giving it to him for this. And here's his career capper.

And I guess it's about to be lights out on Christopher Plummer. And then he just starts throwing fucking haymakers. So then you've got Beginners. Amazing movie. And like Skates. Like the movie comes out in june and it's like no one's beating him he's just gonna run the table for the next nine months winning every award yeah apparently he was in that uh paul bettany movie priest yeah uh with uh carl urban and

maggie q i've seen priest it's a loose remake of the searchers cool kind of rules i want to see it yeah uh apparently he played john barrymore that doesn't really matter uh he did a voice that was a one-man show that i think was then filmed and turned into a movie go on uh girl with a dragon tattoo which i think he's excellent in yes um then uh what else do we have here we got danny collins apparently he was in that one yeah he plays some fucking uh he played some fucking guy in that one you got all the money in the world all the money in the world but i mean one of the most astonishing narratives around a performance and he kills it it was awesome much discussed he's so good in it and then you have knives out

he did a lot of like random shit as well but yeah knives out knives out is i guess his real farewell i think if you just say his 80s contains beginners, Knives Out, Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, all the money in the world. It's really good. Those are four insane performances to give for a guy where every time he showed up on screen, they were like, and this is probably his last movie, right? He's going to die immediately. Yeah, and he got three Oscar noms, right? Yeah. Is there a fourth I'm forgetting?

No, it's those three. He got three, and he won one. Pretty good. Yeah. Fucking rules. Fran, did you know that he was in the sound of music as what one of the kids did you really not know this no i know that okay no he played the music got me yeah he was one of the mountains wow he was he played the lonely go to her they put him on i mean kind of um. I didn't know that, though. I was just like, who's this damn hottie?

I was going to say, you want to, in fact, he's fine as fuck in that movie. Yeah, but I mean, still, even in his 80s, he's like looking like a real sack. I mean, yeah. Yeah, he's very handsome. Have you seen Beginners? Yeah. No. The whole plot of Beginners is like, what if my dad was a snack?

Yeah. Okay. And coming to terms with that. Right. He's Ewan McGregor's dad who comes out in his 80s. Ah. And you know his boyfriend? Goran Visnice.

Yes. From this movie. Wow. But he basically, like, now that your mother is dead, I can tell you, I've been gay this whole time and I finally want to live my truth. And then it's just like Christopher Plummer starts wearing really nice sweaters. Oh, shit. Okay.

And there's a dog. There's fun stuff. I'm going to put it on the list. If the dog speaks in subtitles, you'll love this movie. It's a cute movie. It's so gentle. Yeah. It's a very gentle movie.

I also was trying to come up with an old person snack. Dried apricots. Oh, shit. It's looking like a real dried apricot. Okay, well, I eat those. I do, too. They're really good. I think he's great in dragon tattoo.

I do, too. Because he does have just that. Because, you know, in this movie. He's gentle. He's very gentle. But, right, you need that edge of, like, is this guy full of shit? Like, you know, is this guy sort of covering something up that's beyond the scope of what he's telling us also he's got to set everything up not just plot wise but the stakes and that sort of like ambiguity and then be incapacitated for most of

the movie he's gonna be out still large right but like he's so sad yes and that is the character obviously in the book too and so haunted yeah And he's haunted by the disappearance of his niece, obviously. But it's also, like, he's haunted by, like, all these books, especially this one, but, you know, are just about, like, Sweden is, you know, the social democratic society is just this, like, gossamer thin veil over, like, a history of, like, Nazism andism and sexism and like rampant, like, you know, darkness. Like that's Stieg Larsson's whole take, right? Men who hate women, they're everywhere. Scratch the surface and you'll find them. And it's like, yeah, he lives in this frozen castle. He's successful and he's like miserable.

And he's like- He's surrounded by all these like nurses and nephews who all hate each other. All my family members are insane. They hate him. They think he's crazy. Yeah. I think we're identifying, though.

The money is ill-gotten. The secret sauce to why Christopher Plummer's 80s were so good. Thousand Island Dressing? Yes. No, what? No, he was, like, a horrible alcoholic for decades. Sure. And basically talks about, like, I—

He has a reputation for being a huge asshole yes no but that's what i'm saying he he always sort of in this period he talked about like i kind of like fucked myself over for 40 years i was like an ass you're right you're right that's in the performance that's sort of like oh i could have been better i ran away from success sound of music came out i was like fuck you i drank myself into oblivion and basically he like in his 70s starts to like under he gains a perspective that all the performances we're talking about have that feeling of hauntedness of like did i throw away half my life did i fuck something up i can never get back this is my final moment to sort of reclaim something

or try to set something better before I go. Right? I mean, yes. And of course, one of the many twists of this movie is that Wenger is a relatively uncomplicated person. Like, he is not part of the mystery. No. Really? Like, he is a bystander to most of it.

He was maybe ignorant. Like, he refused to look at what was happening in front of him. Yeah, and it's like, it's the book Wenger who's just sort of like well now that i know we can just keep everyone else out of this like it was just about me knowing yeah it was not about exposing the truth yeah the whole point right of the book is that blancfis is like i'm a journalist i'm gonna write this up and he's like you can't do that right which is you know you see both sides of it obviously like in a way but

go bonfisco but then blancfis just does a bunch of other journalism he's always doing the journalism Right, which is, you know, you see both sides of it, obviously, like, in a way, but go Blomqvist, go. But then Blomqvist just does a bunch of other journalism. He's always doing the journalism. Yes. He's always talking about what people don't want to hear about, you know? He's a truth teller. He's kind of a comedian of the press. So he gets, yeah, so he gets summoned.

He's the Joker of Sweden. He gets summoned to this, like, remote place. Hedestad. Hedestad, made up part of Sweden. And he is told like, ostensibly we work on my memoirs, but really I want you to fully dig into our whole family

and figure out what the hell happened to my niece who vanished. On this weird day. On this weird. Where there was a car crash on the bridge. So many pictures.

That turns it into a locked door, like locked room mystery before an entire islanders like there was no way anyone could get off this island so she died here or whatever and what happened and the only people on the island were either either my family or people who worked for the family all of them i hate and of course that is the trick especially the book is it's like martin vanger who even if you're reading the book you might think well this guy seems like a possible suspect was not there right. So his alibi is

ironclad. And then even when Craig asks him, he's like, smart, of course, you have to make me one of the suspects. He's not fighting it. Okay, yeah, so come live here. Press flowers. You're disgraced. I'm getting these press flowers every year. I feel like it's a killer taunting me. I called that guy from Game of Thrones.

I called, I love that actor. I love that guy, too. That actor, of course, is, what's his name? That's all I know. Donald Sumter as Morell, as the old detective. All I know is. Oh, such a good guy. He's one of the maesters. He plays a good guy, but I got some bad news for you.

What's that? When we cut to flashbacks, who plays him? It's David Denchik. It's Detective Puss, the most despicable character we've ever covered on this podcast. A man I still feel triggered by seeing also uh david from season two of top of the lake uh david denchik who's also in tinker taylor soldier spy and a few other things but do you know what else he's in what a little movie called the girl with the dragon tattoo swedish version oh he's the only guy in both he plays

one of the staff like joel kinnaman. He plays one of the staff at Millennium. He plays like Joel Kinnaman. Yes, right. He plays one of the newspaper guys. Yeah. It's just funny. No, in both of these movies, in both versions, he plays benevolent, supportive, helpful characters. And I just still, I see posts. I never watched.

China Girl, he plays truly Satan. He plays the worst character I've ever seen in anything. I mean, Top of the Lake season one stressed me out too much already. Season two is another one. It's a very good performance that makes you angry at him for happening. Remember when we did a Patreon episode just slamming puss around the room like a squash ball, and then like the eight people who had actually seen season two were like, they were too hard on puss.

Yeah, people thought we were too hard on puss. His name is puss. Sort of a Harry Hole situation. Yeah. Oh, boy. And that's the Tinker Taylor guy. I always forget that. I'm like, where is that guy?

Because in Tinker Taylor, it's all like really recognizable actors. And then him, not that he's full respect. I think he's a good actor. Oh, I meant that director. I'm always like, where did the snowman? Oh, well, he got snowman. No, I know That's what I'm saying

He got Harry Cole He fell in a Harry hole And he can't get out Oh boy So The lawyer Dirk Frode The lawyer

Dirk Frode Played by Stephen Berkoff Who we recently saw In a Bond movie Right He's the villain In Octopussy Oh okay Legendary British playwright Sure I just feel like we recently saw in a bond movie right he's the villain in octopussy oh okay uh legendary british

playwright uh i just feel like fincher is sitting down and like stack up guys with faces for me please like game of thrones guy bring him in yeah phone calls uh you know burkoff bring him in how dare they um uh goran viznits sure but feel like, you know, everybody on the island is just like a great old craggy face. The, uh, the name of the actor who plays the new, uh, guardian, uh, the most, the puss of this film, if you will. Oh, yeah. Um, that guy is called Jorik van Wangjen. You know, he's Dutch. Phenomenal.

Black hat. I was going to say, he's in the blank check scumbag Hall of Fame. Black Hat, he's one of the guys, one of the scummy criminal escapee villains in Chronicles of Riddick. And there's another escape that he was in. Escape Plan? Room. Both. Right.

He's the inventor of Escape Room and both Escape Rooms. Love him. I think he's a very underrated actor. He's also, like, this is kind of a fearless performance in a way because he is so immediately despicable. Yes. And, like, the sight of him shirtless, like, after he assaults Elizabeth with, like, his belly out. And you're just like. Well, it's when she's torturing him.

Well, that's later. Oh, sure. Don't you see? i'm maybe i'm fincher said uh he as he put it canvassed everyone in his life who he knew who had experienced some sort of traumatic abuse right to try to get this right and not be salacious in the way he was depicting it and said, if you're in her position and you're you've decided you want to torture this guy. Right. And you're you're going to like attack him in this way and whatever. Would you take his clothes off or not? And everyone he talked to said, like, I would not I would not want to see his naked body, even if I'm tattooing his chest or I'm inserting stuff into him or whatever i don't like fully disrobe him and so they shot it that way and the test audiences reacted negatively where they were like well it feels weird and disproportionate that she's naked during her assault and that he's not so they made him reshoot the scene and this feels like what a nightmare to be told. We're going back and doing this again.

And he basically, he said, like, they offered me this part. I was like, I don't want to have to do this. Like, I don't want to have to live through this. I don't want to get in this guy's head. I don't want to do these scenes. I want to work for Fincher so badly that I just, I'm going to muscle through it. And Fincher was like, he's incredible. He is incredible because he's not a mustache twirler.

Like, you know, he's quite vile, even, you know, like, just the first second you see him. Correct. But, like, he feels like a, you know, a person who would behave this way. Like, it feels like part of a system that, you know, There's no way it doesn't feel like a thankless sort of... No one was.

Yeah. But I also, I see him in this, and it's like the moment he's pinned in my mind forever. And there's something to the fact. Well, I don't know him from anything else. Black Cat Chronicles of Riddick. Come on. He's the final guy in Black Cat. Hemsworth stabs him like 80 times.

It's awesome. I remember one thing that happens in Black Cat. Which is? He go on computer. I mean. Okay, two things. That's the ultimate he go on computer movie That's sort of the end of that era

There are two genders Girl with the dragon Now we go on algorithm Made a black hat What's the one thing you remember from Black Hat? When they kill VD And I'm like what?

It is tough He comes up with the cure for vd it's a it's a great moment but she's amazing in the movie like what the thing about his performance uh is that uh old yurik uh is that uh yes he avoids the mustache twirling in a way that makes it more unsettling because you could you could play this character more stereotypically villainously in a way that creates more of a distance where you're like well obviously this guy's awful but he plays him like a real terrible person rather than a terrible person in a thriller if that makes sense

right yeah which makes it more insidious more upsetting yeah um the girl with the dragon tattoo um i just before we get to elizabeth yes uh the just i love how the first half of this movie blomqvist he's such a a bimbo like one of these you know like he's in this house he's like how make hot burn burn book and in fireplace why why not warm you know he can barely like feed himself and he's just you know all he wants to do is take his glasses off and put them around his neck and like walk around taking notes what's with that like every woman he meets i think no it's not like in the books they're like and then blonkfist took off his glasses in a way no one has ever done them like halfway on his face i think it's's just Craig's thought of that.

Your Letterboxd review called this out. I looked up your old Letterboxd review for this movie. Oh, yeah. I don't know what I said. Daniel Craig wearing glasses the way that no one has ever worn glasses in their life.

I know this was a big bit Paul F. Tompkins did on every podcast for years. Driving myself insane that I now can't remember what it was. But within the last month, in the lead up to this episode, I watched some documentary or newscast. Oh, is someone doing that? Where there was a real person doing this.

And I went, holy shit, it's the one person who actually vindicates Daniel Craig's glasses business. Where they did the exact same hanging underneath the chin. But maybe then he looks it up and it was Jim Fakerson. I can't figure out who the fuck it is and if I ever do, I will tweet it after this episode comes out. I mean, look, there's a chance that Daniel Craig, who I believe may wear glasses in real life.

I've never seen him. Yeah, why not? I don't know. Like, maybe he does that, but it more felt like Daniel Craig being like, you know, I've got a new take on glasses it's cinematic exactly i don't know um it's fun actor-y shit well it always feels like when is it debbie reynolds does her like meryl impression on larry king and she's just like futzing with the glasses you know take them off and like fucking you know nails her to the wall

i mean truly but that's sort of what craig is doing here with the glory i'm really gonna make a little i got my one prop and also like if you're going to do like you know movie about men who go on computer you might be worried like it will this feel dynamic at all like you know and a lot of his dialogue is shoe leather uh i think craig's smart about that about how to make all of it feel a little more active. But what I think is crucial in this movie is that once Elizabeth joins him, and now we can talk about Elizabeth. An hour and 115 minutes. Why do I keep saying 115? I don't know.

Halfway into the movie is the answer. The movie comes to life, like their scenes come to life. The camera is much more active, like in their little cottage. All of a sudden it's like whipping around. Like it feels like there's energy. Like they're this weird little, like, do you know what I'm saying though? Of how like the first half of this movie almost feels like,

I don't know what you mean by half one and what? One hour and one 15 minutes. One, one hours. Um, you guys are like mad at each other today. Furious. It's sort of crazy.

No, come on. No, no, no. You should mention that we're recording this episode, strangling each other today furious it's sort of crazy no come on no no you should mention that we're recording this episode strangling each other we should also mention that i made this episode air at uh happened early in the morning so that i could go see saw 10 yeah

correct let's have that on the record i mean we gotta get it on the record right uh yes uh no the first half of this movie feels like it is two magnets being held apart from each other by force i'm like getting mad during the first half of this movie every time i watch because i'm like but it makes the payoff so it does make the payoff good but i'm so like by the time we get there like i'm like i want to turn the movie off but it feels weaponized like it feels like fincher knows that's that's the inherent dramatic struggle of adapting this text. Right. And I need to own that and lean into it and have the whole movie, up until that point, feel like we're waiting for this collision.

Well, because especially you're, like, watching these two and you're like, these two? They could never get along. What would they ever even talk about? Peanut butter and chocolate. It tastes terrible together. Right. And then when you see Lisbeth obviously if we follow her track right her track is basically yes ostensibly her connection is she does a background check on him so she's been in

his life yeah in this weird intimate way but apart from that they have nothing to do with each other no and then as we're watching blomquist progress along this murder mystery path we're just watching her well he's like not also is the thing no he's not really he's he's he's yeah he's not he's not a detective yeah he's a journalist so he's interviewing people i mean he makes some progress he finds the pictures like you know he has some thoughts but it's yeah i mean it's his daughter who lets him figures you know the bible verse thing and all that you know but anyway uh elizabeth it's like yeah what do we what do we see happen to her? Her caretaker dies. Or doesn't die.

He doesn't die. He has a stroke. He's actually in the sequels. Okay. Another character that sort of has a long tail. And he's at the end of the movie. Yeah,

and he's at the end of the movie. He's got a long tail? They don't show that on screen. It's a Swedish thing. Like, 10% of Swedes have these long tails. It's like marsupialami. Like,

can you do tricks with it? 100%. He can pick things up. That's a reasonably good marsupialami. I'm not, I don't know what that is. I don't know what you're talking about that is 10 people are gonna be thrilled i made that joke is that another um children's book it's a french comic oh yeah i think i know this guy they tried to bring him over here to the states and didn't really hit um just pulling up some images here he is oh okay cute there's

like a crazy expensive CGI live action Alvin the Chipmunk style Marsupilami French blockbuster directed by Alain Chabot. Is it good? It's okay. No. So...

She has a caretaker. She gets a new one. Right. She's a ward of the state somewhat mysteriously. Her kindly benevolent caretaker dies. She's passed off to a new one who is not...'t die, he has a stroke, I'm so sorry He's incapacitated

Passed off to a new one who in short order Basically like locks up her finances Assaults her And then And is this in the movie Like in the movie when she's going back to him She's planning to frame him. She's thinking, he's going to make me, like,

suck his dick again, do something terrible, and I will catch him. And instead, the escalation from him is so shocking. Yeah. Yes, but she went in with the intention to catch him. Right. That she's not prepared for it. And that's pretty much the last time

that Elizabeth Salander is, like, caught off guard in this movie, obviously. Yeah. the scene which is in the book and is in is also kind of good in the original movie i will say the subway mugger scene oh yeah which is like a little microcosm of like people just underestimate her because she's so small and like is this weird little outsider and then she like fights back with such ferocity that's like sort of surprising not in the book. It's, you're right, it's not in the book,

but it is in the movie. No, it's just, like, her, like, bag just gets, like, stolen. It just gets stolen. And I think it's, like, she just locks it up outside somewhere or whatever.

Remember, in the Swedish movie, she actually fights them and, like, kicks them and shit. Yeah, she has a broken bottle. Right. She's, like, she really fucks them up. I think Noir Pace is very good

in that movie. I've only seen the first one, right? I think she's good. I think it's a very good performance. You think it's not good first one right i think she's good i think it's a very good performance you think it's not good i think it's not good i think it's very like see i think it's good but the characterization is bad maybe i think she is good but the movie frames her as too much of a badass which is like very flattening to this character that's why i don't really like it not a real person. Just like a cartoon.

I think she's a pretty interesting actor. You love Prometheus. I love Prometheus. When is Prometheus? 2014? Oh, it's just a year. That's her first big Hollywood post original drag contest. Is it Prometheus then

Sherlock Holmes 2? Yeah. Okay. No. Yeah. No, Sherlock Holmes 2 is first, isn't it? I think Prometheus is first. Am I wrong?

The Game of Shadows was played in 2011, my friend. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And, you know, it was quite the game. Yeah, and they played to win. Who does she play in that? Like a Romani fortune teller

yeah right yeah exactly i don't know i've never seen that one boring i've only seen the first one i've watched like most of it on tv i need to watch before this sequel comes oh the third which is definitely happening yeah and it's happening like right away it's definitely the next thing that everyone involved is gonna make um yeah like downey jr will collect his oscar in a few months and be like all right so guy are we going oh no we know he's gonna be dexter fletcher right they keep kind of like that i guess totally they keep being like we're like two months away from filming um it's the next thing dexter jet floor Dexter Jetster? Yeah, Dexter Jetster will be directing Oh my god Yeah, no, he's good

He's had like a really interesting Like shifted from behind the The counter The counter to behind the camera Anyway, go on Oh boy So what else about Lisbeth Before she gets put in touch with Blankfist?

Is there anything else apart from... Well, then she exacts her horrifying revenge. We've talked about her a lot. Yeah, we have. Yeah, in this episode before plot. Yeah. Okay, well, then we won't talk about her anymore. It's not like we've been giving her short shrift.

No, we have. You're right. Keep the pooter open. That's what Lisbeth says. She does. Go keep the pooter open. That's what Lisbeth says. She does. Go keep the pooter open. And yes, I feel like it's

right before Lisbeth meets with Blankfist is when Blankfist's daughter sees the little, the numbers from Harriet's diary on his wall

and it's like, Bible verses. Those are Bible verses. Yeah, like the worst thing that's happening to him in his life is that his teenage daughter is like into God.

Right. He's like, don't you know I'm an independent leftist media? Well, and also it's like, this is Sweden. We killed God in the 60s. Like, you know, Bergman et al. crushed him dead. She's tradwifing before it was hit.

Right. Yes, it's the ultimate rebellion. Because, Dad, I have to go to Times Square. I can't stay here any longer. But it makes so much sense because Blankfist, it's like, yes, of course, I have a daughter. I have an ex-wife. I'm currently fucking my co-editor-in-chief. Her husband is cool with it.

Yeah, he doesn't care at all. That's not addressed in the movie, but in the books, the husband's like, yes, I understand. You must fuck Blomqvist. We'll still be happily married. It's all good. Yeah, he likes Blomqvist. Yeah, he'll hang out with him and be like, who the fuck keeps calling? I don't know.

You tell me who keeps calling you. I think i'm on every single spam list in the world so these are all unlisted spam alerts yeah it's so annoying and i feel like my phone used to do better at filtering them like when now it doesn't no very annoying um yes splomquist uh so yeah of course the best rebellion against that is just like i'm into jesus now and right i'm i'm like you know i'm in middle of the road as they come i don't know robin wrong but it feels so right is that anything yeah sure robin wrong but it feels so right with a w yeah no i figured yeah yeah i like it he kind of seems like a dad that puts his career before anything else like he doesn't seem like a good dad.

I think he's a pretty bad dad. I mean, or at least like in everything in his personal life, just not a lot of effort being made. The effort goes to the work. And I think it's through like the grace of his Christian daughter that she likes him. Right. Where she's like, yeah, whatever, I like you. And his ease of charm.

He's a chiller. She's like, I love my bimbo father. I think he plays really well as every scene he has with the daughter. You've heard of bimbo daughter? Yeah. Bimbo girl dad? The bimbo is the dad? Is the bimbo father of daughter?

Yes. No, the thing I think he plays really well is every scene he has with her, it's almost like he's going like, right, I should be a better father. Yeah, he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Oh, this is what i should fucking prioritize anyway get under the train see you later yeah um nila pernilla much like pernilla august star wars shmi shmi herself um that's her name is his daughter's name anyway uh yes she helps him realize harriet who went, and all he's really going on at this point is

there's a weird photo where she seems spooked by something in a crowd the day of her disappearance, which is very chilling. Like, it's a really good, you know, sort of little clue, right? It's like, what freaked her out so much? Yeah. But it's, yes, and then the daughter points to these Bible verses, and when he brings this page of her journal where she's got names of women just and a bunch of numbers or initials

women can i just say about parades that they're before security cameras parades were like parade photographers the original security cameras does this make sense yep whereas like the only way that you were able to capture random images of a day day is someone at a parade took a bunch of pictures. And not only someone, but like 12 people. The pruder. The pruder was at every fucking parade. That's what people don't realize about that guy. They don't get it.

He was like, there's a parade. I'm there. And 99 times out of 100, nothing interesting. Click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click. And there they go back. Yeah. Nobody got shot in the head. Click, click interesting click click click click click click click and there they go back yeah nobody got shot in the head click click click he was just a freak he was hoping people were gonna get shot yes it's like another sort of a richard jewel situation yeah you know yeah also he's like i hope i see some action yes and then yeah what if clint laid in life as a brooder? They were all rooted.

They called the worst movie after him. The movie no one wants to see. It's not his fault. Right? Yeah. He just wanted to film a nice parade. He cast one of the guys from the French train to play as a brooder. He should have kept using those guys in other movies.

I'm going to play Jack Ruby. Clint, you're way too old. Then Railroad. Jack Ruby got railroaded by the mob. He just keeps, there's railroads on top of him. I mean, there's a lot of railroads there.

He's like, I'm going to play Jack Ruby. Did you know he was a bad dad? I don't think Jack Ruby had children. No, he was bad. He's not in juror number two Or whatever I hope he turns out to be playing the judge

Or something That would be good What is it actually called It's called juror number two Clint's new movie Who's in it Nicholas Holt Tony Collette.

Toni Collette. Someone else? Leslie Bibb. Okay. Oh, and I'm seeing here, oh, a tiny little person. Oh, who's this? Zoe Deutsch. Here she is standing on my hand.

Tiny. Zoe Deutsch first. Nicholas Holt plays a guy, gets called in for jury duty. But he might have done it. He realizes as he's hearing about the crime that he in fact might be. Whatever it is. I don't know what the crime is. I guess this could happen to anyone. Clint shot it in a weekend yesterday.

It's coming out tomorrow or whatever. It's one of those things, you know. I didn't know about this. I'm excited. He's going into production two weeks after the movie comes out in theaters. They've set a release date and he's going to start filming right after that.

Everyone was so like, Cry Macho is like, that's it, he's done. It felt like a real final film. Every Cry Macho is a movie where someone sneezes on his screen, they get blasted against a wall. And not only that, but there were all these Jason Kalar stories of him being like, why are we fucking making Clint Eastwood movies?

Warner Brothers is never making a Clint Eastwood movie ever again. And you were like, well, that's a picture app on Clint. And here he is, I'm still alive. I ran that fucker out of town. HBO Max my ass. I got Zaslav wrapped around my finger. I railroaded him. I'm going to make a movie about how I railroaded his ass into giving me $40 million.

What if Clint's the one leaking all the Zaslav slam pieces? Clint's the one who like every time the studios were like. What with the litter? Yeah. Yeah. Handwritten. What were you. What with a letter? Yeah. Yeah. Handwritten. What were you going to say, David? Just like during negotiations, he's just calling Zaslav being like, sweat it out.

You're going to win the next round. I bet. Do more interviews. Make commencement speeches. You've got him against the wall. I want Clint's final movie to be called The Railroader. And it reveals that he is in fact the one railroading everyone. Everyone.

Changeling, he did that. 15 to 17 to Paris, he was driving the train. I'm the architect of all your pain. And I'm a terrible father. A horrible husband. I'm railroading you. He should make a Biden movie He should be like This guy's getting railroaded for being too old

He's like the guy's a spring chicken I got 10 years on him Why are we railroading him He should pivot to Biden late in life That guy could run laps Exactly it'd be a masterpiece It'd be incredible He would cast Biden as Biden boring movie of all time. Exactly, it'd be a masterpiece. It'd be incredible. Biden plays himself. He'd be walking into rooms

and sitting down and being like, okay, what's up? He would cast Biden as Biden, right? Oh, definitely. This guy's got it. He's one of those faces. Yeah, well,

and Biden would be like, I'll go do this for a while. Yeah, sure. What else is he doing? It's a lunch break. We'll film the whole thing during a lunch break. Okay, so Lisbeth,

what a bizarre tangent. movie all right wrote it by sweden um no he would know the books are too long he needs to finish a book before lunch she's too on computer for him that's also that's true yeah he doesn't know her is there a computer in any clint movie well like olivia wilde uses a computer in a sexist way. Right, yeah. She like puts her boobs on the computer. She's like, my dick's getting hard typing an article. That's how

she talks in that movie. Oh yeah, I know. It's a sensitive and nuanced portrayal of journalism. I love railroading people. She works with the railroad? That's what the newspaper's called? The Daily Railroad? Jesus Christ. I love her in that, I gotta say.

You like her in Richard Jewell? Yeah, you know what? I think it works. You know, because she's so... I mean, it works in that blunt force way that those Clint movies often are, where it's like, yeah, everyone's going to be a pretty defined character.

That movie is 10 out of 10. I genuinely think that movie is 10 out of 10. I think the movie's good. I think she's so over the top that it lets Ham really go sort of insidious. If I ever get drunk at a bar with Ham, who I understand does not drink. Please. Yes, I know. But if I ever, I'm drunk.

Okay. And he'd just be sort of naturally charming. I'd be like, literally, how many times did Clint even talk to you on the set? My guess is once, right? Yeah. Like, he was just like, you get it. He's rolling him out there on a dolly. My favorite scene.

He's so perfect for that movie. No, no. I think the characterizations in Richard Jewell are like surprisingly nuanced considering it's late period Clint. And I love the scene where Olivia Wilde finally collects the final infinity stone, puts it on her gauntlet, and uses her power to railroad Richard Jewell. Okay. So we should pick up with the movie yes and we were talking about the biblical uh so creepy

yeah and how that's connected to all of these old murders and it's so like it's in the book it really freaked me out and i had seen the movie by the time i was reading the book i don't know if i was really rattled at that point where like where he's like going through a reverse of the bible yes yes yes and there's and you're just like right this shit is just in the bible you know like these sort of like weird explicit murdery rules you know if a woman lays with you know like you know then you shall do all the specific stuff to her like bible the original torture porn yeah um yeah well and i think and I think they sort of lay out the cases of all these all in one. I guess we're sort of skipping over when they finally meet.

Because he's like, I need a research assistant. Sure, if we want to talk about the meeting more, we obviously praise the meeting scene. Yeah, but those cases, they spend way more time in the book explaining all these murders and how they're based in these Bible verses. And they're all gross and they're all scary. They're all scary. And they're all sad. And yeah and yeah right whereas this gets boiled down to a slideshow of gruesome images of gruesome images where uh you know elizabeth is like i'm not done you know you know like this happened this happened whereas in the book they're like going to like

there's this weird murder in the bar and let's go talk to the farmer and the farmer would be like i found this girl with no head i mean, the mystery is clearly the part of this story that Fincher is least interested in. I think so. I think he's done seven. He's done enough of this stuff. Yeah, you're right. Right.

You know. And, like, he says in all the materials, like, it's their relationship that's what I'm most motivated by, like, as a storyteller. The other thing Fincher said in the commentary is, like, they cut entire family members out of the film.

They shot him interviewing different people, going and meeting a bunch of them. You're left with a film where basically Stalin's Far Asgard is introduced early on and there are no other credible suspects. And he's like the only guy. And he was like the movie was too long and it just felt like none of this is really important. He was like the thing we reshot the most was his wall of suspects. He was like, the thing we reshot the most was his wall of suspects. Because if we removed them from the story, we'd have to reshoot the wall and never introduce them even as an idea. Yeah, there's one of the Vangers that you'll never believe that Mikhail is sleeping with in the book.

Yeah, she is in the movie. She's played by, what's it called, Geraldine James. Oh, sure. But she's barely in the movie. But they're having a whole affair. In the book, that's a long affair where he has to break up with her once he starts sleeping with Lisbeth, and she's kind of upset about it. Then they all have dinner, and it's like, whatever. There's a lot of that shit.

They have so much healthcare there that even when people break up, they can all sit at a dinner table and be like, man, it's fine. The safety net is just so strong. If someone harms you, you're like, whatever. No, the case is basically solved by the moment he hires Lisbeth. Or should I say, Lisbeth helps him so much so quickly.

Yes. She sort of supercharges it. Yeah. He obviously, like the piece he needs is, you know, what did she see? Yeah. And they don't realize that until the end of the move, the end of the third or fourth act or whatever. They realize it at the same time in parallel, right? That she saw her brother.

But separately. Yes, but they put that together. Now, she realizes it by looking through the archives, right? And he realizes it by going to visit the guy who's like, I'm just going to come out here and say it. I am a Nazi, right? Like, everyone else is sort of like, you know, they're kind of like, oh, Sweden's past is complicated. And then there's that one guy who just sits in his like wall of photos and he's just like

we shouldn't bury the past but this is such a fincher worldview thing and it is the the skarsgård monologue and on the like commentary fincher was just salivating where he's like this is like my favorite kind of dramatic setup is both of these guys know what the other guy knows and they know that the other guy knows they know that they both know but the difference is that Skarsgård is basically weaponizing politeness against him right which is I'm banking on the fact that you think you're smarter than me that I'm not aware that you know and that if I ask you to do something innocuous and you say no you're giving up the fact that you've cracked the case.

So you'll come inside, you'll have the drink, like, when the reality is he can leave at any time. Yeah, totally. Well, I think also like the book and the film both kind of set you up to almost feel like bad for Stellan Skarsgård because Wenger is like, yeah, he's my nephew. He took over the company over me And he's not doing very good You're always like, nah, he's not doing a good job at his job So you're like, oh, this guy, you know, sort of fail son

Where it's like, you know, but he's charming So like, you know, throw him a bone He's such a throw-em-your-bone kind of guy Until he's throwing the bones He's throwing the bones Just to lay out What the plot, you know, what the actual thing is Is that, you know, Harriet And her thing is, is that Harriet and her brother,

Martin South Skarsgård were both being abused by their father, who is played by Julian Sands in flashback. No, Julian Sands is Christopher Plummer. Yeah. Young Plummer. I forget who plays the dad, but who is an evil drunk,

you know, Nazi. Nazi abuser. Yes. Harriet killed. He basically plays Kevin Spaceyy's dad go on sure uh harriet killed her father um when he was like drunk she like hit him in the head with an oar and he drowned and then once like the next summer is when she realizes like oh my brother's just gonna take over my father's role sure and i'm going to never

escape this cycle of abuse and that is when she gets out of there yeah she didn't die yeah that's the she's not dead that's what always felt so obvious to me sure with the you know the sort of she simply became jolie richardson but that's once again it's like in the reframing of this movie when he cuts out the other suspects and whatever it's like she's the only other person that really makes an impact when nyquist nyquist excuse me uh uh what's the character's name goes and meets with her and she has prominent villain she's an actor you've seen before sure where you're like she has to be important to this in some way certainly yes that she that he goes to meet a random sibling and she's like yeah my sister was weird anyway i don't have anything else for you right like you're like yeah this does seem odd

i don't know i didn't put it to me it's a it's a decent twist because it you know it's why martin wasn't there like you know it's how the alibi functions yes and it makes two things feel very profound to me one that she's setting the sending the flowers and the way that she interprets it is like i'm this is a sign of life she doesn't understand that it's actually torturing him that to me is such a great like sort of upsetting and sad and melancholy kind of thing yeah and then the other like the moment which is so powerful in both movie and book where blonk is likeist is like, so, you did kill Harriet. And Martin is so upset to hear.

He's like, no, where is she? Like, do you know? Right. And, like, because, like, that's why Martin has tolerated this the whole fucking time. Because he's like, maybe he'll actually find out what happened to my sister. Which is the mystery I can't get over. Yes. Like, I lost my sister who I was going to, like, fucking, you know, torture for the rest of my life.

Jolie Richardson's really good in this movie. She's a good actor. Fincher in the commentary says, he doesn't even, like, talk around it. She clearly did not like doing a Fincher amount of takes.

Sure. And her attitude of just like, please leave, I don't want to answer more of these questions. He was like, I genuinely think she was just pretty fed up.

She sent in, like, a tape for the audition. I loved it. I cast her. You was like, I genuinely think she was just pretty fed up. She sent in, like, a tape for the audition. I loved it. I cast her. Right. You know, but I didn't audition her in person. And then she came in

and was just very quickly fed up with my whole process. Right. Which I think lends something. She'd also done seven years at Niv-Tuc. I mean, everyone would be kind of fed up at that point.

But he said, the final scene where she is reunited with Christopher Plummer, right? He said, like, look, I'm just I want I know you don't like doing a ton of takes. So I'm just going to load in your head. This is the number one thing I want you to think about when you play this scene. And the other part was that, like, Plummer is so vulnerable there. He breaks down so quickly. Right. She's going to start crying when she sees plumber the actor crying right and he's like the thing you need to keep in your mind before the waterworks start is you walk in you see him he looks really bad you have not seen this guy in decades and it's like alarming how much older he is but also what a frail state he's in and then i want you to process that the reason he looks so bad and he's gotten so sick and is in such a frail state is largely because this thing has driven him crazy right

what you thought as you said like sending him the flowers will help splinter in his mind yes to some degree there's an amount of guilt you're holding of i didn't quite understand the effect i was having right yeah which is very profound post it that's a post-it That's like I'm good I'm good And so All of that is so But yeah I'm trying to Well I guess the other thing

That's going on During this investigation Yes Is that Blomquist And Stillander They kiss They kiss

They sex They have sex Yeah Well first they're friends First they are They're sort of frenemies To lovers It's like But like Their introduction scene Obviously is like they have sex. Yeah. Well, first they're friends. First they are, or they're, they're sort of frenemies to, to lovers.

It's like, but like their introduction scene, obviously is like, he's barging into her house and he's like, you afforded me no right to privacy when you like shuffle through my life. So I'm just barging into your house after you like hooked up with some rando. And I'm like, you know,

get on the case. And obviously she's like resistant to it. But I think his directness with her is so different to everyone. Everyone else, when they see, say, see Elizabeth, they're like, you know, get on the case. And obviously she's like resistant to it. But I think his directness with her is so different to everyone else. When they see Elizabeth, they're like, she's scary. I don't even want to look at her. Right. And he actually like meets her head on, which I think is why she's. He brings her breakfast.

He's like, you should have some breakfast. He brings her what I believe are filled bagels, which they're always talking about in the books. And I'm always like, get me a filled bagel. Right. Yeah. No, he like he like basically courts her like you win favor with a cat uh yes right good call right yes yeah and there's just like a sensitivity and thoughtfulness to how he is engaging with her and clearly understanding that she's like prickly right and distrusting of people that immediately registers for her as like oh i can

trust him because he's actually thinking about this he's also kind of an asshole and she's kind of an asshole like they're rude and i feel like i like that the the seeing like him just barge in and not really be polite in any way she's the like yeah like never polite to anyone barely acknowledges anyone none of the niceties but but but incredibly incredibly smart character detail is when he barges in she's just had a one-night stand with this one she meets at the club right and she goes into the bedroom and says like do you need to stay here you can stay here as long as you want right right basically like messages to her i will kick him out sure if you need to stay in this space which it's not like you're in danger but it speaks more to she is never protected in her life

so she immediately has the consideration of like what are your emotional wants right now do you want to stay in bed with me for another six hours cuddly or do you want to like get out of here and go to work you know yeah i just think that's like a really really fine detail yeah that's interesting i mean she's always doing that in the books too she's always like to her random friends like you want to live in my apartment like i'm you know i'm getting out of here for a while it's like her sort of friend slash on and get off again girlfriend. Right. Who after she gets her boobs done, Mimi's like, I love your new boobs.

She said lesbianly or something. It's so crazy. The sex scene with them is like, so like, because I'm a lesbian, I love your new boobs. It's like, this is so fucking stupid. R.I.P. Stieg Larsson. R.I.P. I'm sorry about what happened to you. Died too young. David weirdly implied that you were like out of shape and maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I think he smoked a lot of cigarettes. That's my impression of him. You're doubling down on this in a weird way. Yeah, he's drinking and smoking like a good old-fashioned Swedish journalist. No, I have no idea. They get together. They have a weird yin-yang kind of thing as researchers, right? Like, you know they they complement each other

perfectly yeah she's good at computer he's good at like she has photographic memory right she can remember everything in the book that's a very profound moment where he asks her that and she gets really upset yeah i hate that moment i also don't really understand it in the book it's like her secret shame that she has a photographic memory and this it's more like yeah that's her superpower yeah she keeps will sometimes will like dip away from him and start crying and he's like what's up and she's like i'm weird aren't i and it's like we don't we don't need this he's just like oh cool right i mean obviously the true reason she's interested in blonde christ is that he accepts her at face value and is not judgmental at all yeah because that's his personality yes right um but the vibes of just like drink tea have sweater go on computer

during this kind of like third you know it's just great impeccable yeah my friend Aubrey so sexy to have a project that that is Aubrey's letterboxd review which i have favorited i was looking at all my favorite to have a project it's so true yep and uh you know nick minnick said i want daniel craig to be my small cold boyfriend absolutely yeah um yes i love all of this well it's it's a e-girl hacker ghost girlfriend disgr, girlfriend, disgraced, cold, journalist, boyfriend. Couple goals, right? This is sort of my household, but gender swapped. Yes, right.

Your partner is goth. We were saying this. Goth adjacent. Yes, is more gothy. And is on computer. And I'm like glasses and a sweater, also on computer, but different way. One of us on PC, one on Mac. They're all conspiring to run you off us on PC, one on Mac, you know. They're all conspiring to run you off of Fran Magazine.

Yeah. There's been a coup brewing for a long time. Yeah. They're railroading me. They're on computer right now. Fincher said basically. Fran Magazine. Sorry, what? Fincher said the scene where they sleep together for the first time.

After he gets shot. He gets shot, or he doesn't get shot, but he. He gets shot. He misses him and he gets grazed. And he's kind of freaking out. And she nurses him in this very sexy way with the Swedish vodka. And the dental floss.

Oh, the movies love when a girl is stitching up a hot guy. I mean, I love. Yeah, I do too. It's just a funny thing. She has sex with him the first time to calm him down. There's something very pragmatic about it. That she's like, pants thing. So basically, she has sex with him the first time to calm him down. Yes. Right? He's so rattled. There's something very pragmatic about it. That she's like, pants off.

Right. Yeah. Right. And then, God, I'm trying to remember what moment it is, but he's like, the moment where they actually achieve intimacy is not when they have sex. I mean, there's that really great moment after they've solved the murder where they're in bed looking at each other. Like, put your hand up my shirt again or whatever?

Put your hand back? That's later. He's like, that's when she's really fallen for him. so she's admitting that she like wants his presence right but you know it's yes it's the it's the morning after the comfort of their conversation where she's like oh i might be catching feelings um and then it's much later but when she asked him for the money right and he's like i don't have it and she like, I know the exact amount in your bank account. Right. Five trillion kronen

or whatever. Sure. And then he doesn't question it. Which is only like $100. Right. He doesn't question it and he's like,

yeah, sure, just pay me back. And she's like, seriously? He's like, yeah, do you want a coffee? He's like,

that's the moment she's ruined. Right. Basically, emotionally, which sets up the ending of the film. I think what makes it

so devastating is that she's like, no one has ever trusted her that much in her life. No one has b's niche is the closest or whatever and he is still that character is clearly still kind of afraid of lisbon right like he wants her to feel like he has that line where he's like look she's had a hard life like you don't need to make it harder but he doesn't think of her as a human he still thinks of her as like a wounded pet but he doesn't question her his bonk fest is right and she's just like that to her means more in terms of a sense of intimacy than anything she's

experienced before in her life but she doesn't get the different levels they're on of how they're seeing each other and it's why when craig you know when bonfist gets kid captured by scars guard uh and put into murder basement uh that uh she's like yes it's in parallel that she's realized but like they just at that point they are like symbiotic yes yeah and like she knows how to get him and she knows what's going on you know like they she just like you're not really and she's not like damsel in distress he's he's the golf club he is he's damn little to hell. The may I kill him thing is all about like here he is. He's this like ultimate male ally. Right.

He is the one guy who sort of doesn't objectify her or other her. And he like fights for the rights of women who have been abused and murdered. He's trying to break open these cases. He's trying to expose this sort of abuse. He's in the pussy hat. Right. trying to break open these cases he's trying to expose this sort of abuse he's in the pussy hat right and it's like until the moment that fucking scars guard ties him up he has never actually experienced basically no sure yeah right not that we know and so from the moment she lets him down he's like i've now actually lived through some version for a sliver of the other side of this

which is basically her saying may i kill him do you get it now right do you get that this like the existential threat i feel at all times versus just the idea of rallying for a sense of justice in the world now in the books um there is this backstory for mikhail that he solved a crime when he was a teenager okay And his last name is Blomqvist And as we know And so all the characters call him Kalle Blomqvist Which is the name of essentially Sweden's Encyclopedia Brown

Okay Like a very famous Swedish character That is like a young detective Yeah So like Larson named the character It's a joke Okay And Lisbeth is always calling him

Kyla fucking Blomquist. Like that's her like joke about him. And he accepts it from her. So we know a little bit more about him as this like kind of like try hard throughout his life in the books. In the movies. Someone calls him that one time in the movies.

In a way that's weird. It's like an arcane reference for any American. Like I had no idea. I was almost surprised to see it in there it might be scars guard at the end calls calls him that for like a second and they don't get into it but i was almost surprised at that point to even hear reference to it it's like if his name was like sherlock johnson and everyone called him sherlock holmes facetious like that's what it is exactly he hates it yeah and like so yes i think there's this

This chip on his shoulder In the books of like I want to be like a real You know Sure Detective I guess Not a little boy

Middle grade fiction detective Okay But we should talk I mean look Yeah I agree that Fincher Cares the least about the murders In this Yeah

But when He's doing a murder basement scene With like Yeah You're just like There's no one better at this. Like, making this so intense. Go on, Dan. The reel-to-reel.

That detail of the high-end stereo system. Yes. There's just something so chilling about that, in general, with just murderers, of having a high-end stereo system. Yes. And the choice of song, remind me what it is. But he hasn't upgraded his high-end stereo system. Yes. And the choice of song reminds me what it is.

He hasn't upgraded his high-end stereo system in decades. I think it's actually he's such a purist and audiophile that he wants this analog really high-quality format. And the implication, he plays this to

drown out the screams. He hates killing. He this to like drown out the screams. This is the song I have. He hates killing. Right. And he wants to hear a song he likes. This is his serenity. It was Daniel Craig who famously suggested Orinoco Flow. It's just funny to imagine him like, you know, he's in the harness. He's like, what about Sail Away Sail Away? And they're like, what are you talking about? He's like,

Orinoco Flow! It was, no. And then they were all laughing. They were like, that'd be crazy. It was when they were in rehearsal. I think you're right. Yes, yeah. And he says, they're like, Arno, go fuck! It was, no. And then they were all laughing. They were like, that'd be crazy. It was when they were in rehearsal. I think you're right. Yes, yeah. And he says, they're like, what should the music be?

I don't think it was on set. I think it was like table work rehearsal. There's no way it was on set. But it was like Zalian and Fincher and Craig and they were like, what should be on

the reel-to-reel? And Craig just goes like, Enrico Flo! And runs out of the room and they were like, He pulled it up on his ipod he runs out to grab his ipod but fincher and zillion turn to each other like did he just have a stroke what the fuck is on a rico flow like he just blurted out this thing and then came back with the ipod

and played it and fincher was like i thought that was called sail away sail away uh fincher's other quote is this guy's gonna make blanca says metro as we need which is yes wow metro 2010 baby i know um i wonder if anyone is still actively i'm metro i'm very metro yes what is it again you wear a suit but and you get a pedicure but you're straight whatever that means straight but brush hair it's like h&m yeah um straight but take showers at some point the bar for metrosexual Became so low Skarsgård The shot of Skarsgård

Get in there Gas comes on Skarsgård's already got the gas mask on And then just like Yeah the practice Kind of like alright Here we are in the harness Ask me some questions and he's like

ask me some questions come on you're a journalist let me monologue and craig's like and he's like why did i kill the girls well let me tell you you know like he doesn't even daniel craig is yeah i had a girl down here during dinner he's so good at being tortured he is right i mean like the casino royale scene is like hall of fame playing being tortured and this he plays so well i love the shot from his pov with the plastic bag oh it's so scary so cool it's really cool how they how they do that uh i don't know put bag over camera hold uh vacuum cleaner underneath bag um david when you said like it's the party's least interested in but the second you get down to the murder basement like david fincher getting to film in a murder basement is is like

giving a basketball to michael jordan being like and gene kelly i now just let you dance like there's this one crazy camera move that like i'm obsessed i need to re-watch the whole sequence live and just do a commentary this is sometime. This has, like, become a comfort food movie for you. Has it not? Yes. You've watched it all the time. I just love the feelings. Like, that is what I love about it.

I love the aesthetic, obviously, of, like, cold murder. You know, I do like that. I know why that's broadly appealing. You hate hot murder. I hate... No, I do hate hot murder. Yes. I want cold.

Cold case, cold murder, cold climate. But no, just the feelings of the two of them. Like their eyes throughout the movie. Right? That's what I love. You're positive on this movie. I like it more every time I rewatch it. Right, which I think is true for a lot of people.

It puts me in a bad mood, generally. It's the feel-bad movie of Christmas. Yeah, and it does make me feel bad. And I'm sick of people being like, well, feeling bad is actually sort of the new feeling good it's like no no no um who says that to you pinhead yeah pinhead says that to me um no i think it just you know it's it's it's scary yeah no it's intense it ends on such a note that makes me feel like actually sad that's why i love it i think it's what's amazing, but it's

never going to be like, oh, I'll just put this on. Right. You know, maybe if you make a Tumblr supercut of just hey, hey. It's all the sadder because they don't make the sequels. It is. I mean, in the sequels, the idea of them being romantic is dispensed with,

I will say. Like, they are no longer pissed at each other for so much of the sequels they do finally reunite and they do succeed i'm just saying but they're never the romance is gone i kind of love that it's just her riding off on the motorcycle being the final shot and him never making the sequels you're just like maybe they never talk ever again right see i thought of you with the thing of like when food is left uneaten, that fucking jacket is gorgeous. It looks incredible.

The woman can shop. I mean, God. It looks incredible. It's a custom-made leather jacket and the fact that it's wasted, it's so... It sucks. It's so disheartening.

It upsets me extremely. Yeah, me too. Ben wanted to like Sherlock Jr. into his TV screen to pull the jacket out of the dumpster. Look. So, look. look i mean we need to we need to start battling towards the ending here but lisbeth lisbeth uh golf clubs stellan you know uh he drives off she chases him he explodes right so you don't even get the sort

of catharsis of and then you're like well great movie over right and he's like bonus act 30 more minutes uh yeah they have to figure out of course what did happen to harriet because like bonkers correctly is like he definitely didn't kill her like from his reaction uh and yes joely richardson is in fact harriet uh and we learn all of this and then they reunite that scene is quite powerful agreed uh plumber nailing it but then the other thing, what's his name? The guy who sued Blomqvist. Wennerstrom. The ostensible payment

was, of course, I'll let you bring down your enemy, and then he gives him a bunch of bullshit and Blomqvist is mad and Elizabeth's just like, I can just use computer.

Well, early on in the film, right after she's finished the background check on him, she goes to her, like, one hacker friend to get a thing and she sort of, like, one hacker friend to get a thing. And she sort of, like, in the first 15 minutes breaks into Wennerstrom's place and, like, hacks a thing there. So she's already, like, laid the groundwork to figure out what's going on there.

Because she, like Venger, knows that he was set up. That's basically her way of saying, I love you. Yeah, of course. 100%. I do crime for you. I put on a wig. She gets, you know, steals all his fake money, which in the movie, in the sequels,

then she's like fabulously wealthy because she stole all this money. She buys a really cool apartment. There's a lot about her cool apartment. Fincher said kind of purposefully her persona, this disguise she puts together kind of looks like Robin Wright drag. Yeah.

Right, right, right. Like she's so uncomfortable playing this role, but also to a certain degree, she's living in the skin of the kind of woman that Craig is always going to default to. That's sort of camp. It's like funny. It is camp. And she wore this at the Met Gala. Mm-hmm.

I mean, I think what's just crucial is, like you say, when she's doing all of this, I think what's just crucial is, like you say, when she's doing all of this, she's now extending herself beyond her usual cocoon out of love for Blondfist. And he doesn't do anything wrong. He doesn't do anything. I mean, he uses it. He obviously uses the evidence. But it's just. He remains a little oblivious. Exactly.

He's bimbo forever. And so when she sees him back with Robin Wright because she's now shored up Millennium Magazine things are going to be fine. They didn't DTR. They never DTR. McHale and Elizabeth never sat down

and were like so are we boyfriend and girlfriend? Yeah. And she just sees him being intimate with him and I think it's beyond the fact that like oh he's he will still sleep with her.

It's like she's just like no he's in society and i can never be in society that's his home base right yeah beauty and the beast vibes a little bit yeah which there's just for fincher to be like trash motorcycle off and fincher's like roll credits sure get out of here there's the scene where she goes to the archives and there's the older woman who sort of doesn't want to let her take a look at the files. Yes. And Fincher was like,

that was really important to me because, like... She's just so disgusted by Lisbeth's very being. Right, right. He was like, look, a lot of this movie is obviously about misogyny,

but also, like, bureaucracy is against Lisbeth Salander. 100%. Like, society is against Lisbeth Salander. Which is what the sequels are very much about.

Like, she is the most unsympathetic victim of all time the violence is perpetuated by men but also no one is accepting her other really than blomkist um yeah which which that that's the thing that really hurts her yeah and that like uh craig's always just going to basically default back to robin wright she's the one that he kind of can't get over yeah yeah if they'd done the sequel she gets a lot of cool stuff to do but then even the swedish movies cut that stuff out probably just to search for something to cut out but she has this whole cool subplot it's great she's a fun character she's a great character yeah we were

talking about the social network episode last week uh the sort of interesting thorny dramatic tension in the authorship of that movie of you feeling like sorkin and fincher uh alternately uh admire and uh are disgusted by different aspects of zuckerberg as an idea right yeah they both respect and abhor different aspects of him i feel like lizbeth is everything that fincher likes about zuckerberg minus the things he hates about him right that that the sort of like someone who embraces technology is a thoroughly modern person who like pisses on the walls of society you know and is like actually oppressed by society and is victimized by society and retains a sense of like, I need to do what's right for the right people versus feeling oppressed,

having this sort of self-pitying attitude and like using the power vindictively. Right. Yeah. Right. Right. This is like the distillation of everything that he does respect about Zuckerberg minus the sociopathy. Yeah. That's my take. And Daniel Craig is doing the Andrew Garfield thing of being

a cutie little sweetie. I just want to tell you something. Warner Brothers is going to release a 4K of the future. What do you think? I saw that steelbook. Chicago. That's old news. That was last night. Chicago. I wasn't right. I wasn't surfing r slash steelbooks at 10't right i wasn't surfing r slash steelworks

at 10 p.m i'm sorry you don't have notifications on so it looks great i hope it's a good transfer uh me too um this film was nominated for five uh tim miller's uh opening credit sequence i do think unbelievable very cool yes uh sort of like and and oh and trent resner i care knows but uh resner and atticus ross's ross's score i listened to more than the social network score i love this so much wow it is funny though that resner there's this quote from him in the in the um dossier where he's like you know social, like that came out of nowhere in my life. I didn't, you know,

really understand anything about, you know, like that's not a world that I'm in and going into this, you know, it was a little more like, ah, serial killers and anal rape. Uh,

I guess I know what that sounds like. You know, that's more nine inch nails. This is like John Williams in 79 cracking his knuckles to do the Superman score. And then the quote just says, I know what this says, Reznor pauses. Let me rephrase that. A dark tone felt more familiar.

Yeah, well, it's a good adjustment, Trent. But I know, I really recommend this score as like moody writing music. It's really good. I just like all their scores. They did for the... Their Challenger score, I feel like I keep chounding it out, which is just like pulsing dance music. Yeah, well, that movie won't come out for another 15 years they did the mink score right

yeah the mink score i love them about it it's a really really good score and they recorded it in covid instrument by instrument like over zoom it's like one of the most crazy things like yeah i should re-watch their their only oscar is social network or did they win a second didn't they win a... I thought they won for Mank. No. Did they win for Soul? They won for Soul.

I was going to say, Soul is an incredibly good score. Wasn't Soul up against Mank? Yes. They're the same here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it is. They beat themselves.

At the Soderbergh Oscars. But they did win for Soul. Choo-choo. Yeah, they did. Yeah, the Soul score is amazing. It's really nice. Yeah, because the Oscars were in a train station there.

Ninja Turtles score, that was a surprising one. Really good score. Yeah. They work a lot now. Look, I mean, who knew Trent Reznor would become just a good Hollywood composer after 25 years? His fucking Watchmen work is unbelievable. That's a fucking soundtrack I listen to all the time. HBO award?

Yeah. Okay. I have to go see Saw in like 10 minutes. So, we've been recording for almost three hours. Saw 10 minutes from now? Exactly. I have to see Saw in X minutes. This film came out Christmas.

Feel bad movie. 2011. We talked about this. We've done this box office game three times. Okay. So, two of the previous times we've done it are War Horse and Tintin both getting released. That is correct. The same week, right?

Number five and number seven. Okay, so I'm trying to think what the third time we would have done this is. Sandwich in between them at number six. Give me a genre? Let's hear the genre. Comedy. How do you know? Family comedy. Nope.

Family comedy. That's 2010. What were you going to guess, Fran? Oh, I just know, I feel like I know one of the other movies in the top. Sure. But I'll wait. No, no. This one's not in the top five, so. Fran, take your shot. Well, I just know the same day that I saw this movie in theaters, I saw Mission Impossible, Ghost Protocol. That is number one at the box office.

And that came out the week before. And we've done that on Patreon, so we've done that as well. We did it on Patreon and Main Feed, my friend. Right, so four times. No, but that came out the week before so we did that that's the week before ghost protocol two weeks oh i'm sorry yes right because it had the weird uh imax exactly right okay um but uh so ghost protocol is number one expanding to wide okay number two is dragon tattoo no is a sequel that we literally

just mentioned you thought it came out on a different year I thought it came out on a different this is why I knew it came out 2011 fuck

is it Sherlock Holmes Sherlock Holmes Game of Shadows wow coming out that has also been out for two weeks okay

and that movie did pretty good considering it's like not really well remembered right it doesn't exist no it's sort of like of like open 186 domestic right because the first one opened so huge and this one opened lower and people were like i guess blooms off the rose and then it fucking held and they're making their third one they're making it right now they're

about to do it they just need to finish their coffee and then they're gonna go do it number three is dragon tattoo which of course uh grossed a grand total of $102 domestic. Not bad. But it's pretty good. Worldwide? It did $130 international for $232 worldwide. For a $90 million movie, it's not like the worst thing in the world. But obviously, they wanted a franchise starter here.

They thought it was going to be humongous. But again, on the other hand, this is a two-hour, 40-minute movie with a lot of really, really intense material. It is a victim of expectations. It is worth making a sequel outside of you thinking

this movie is going to make $300 million domestic and then it looking like a flop and win Best Picture or whatever. And like some movies got sequels such as number four at the box office. Is this the one?

A worthy sequel. No, okay. This was the sequel or it gets a sequel? This is the I think third film in a franchise. What genre? Family comedy. Animated. And this isn't the one we've covered already? No, this isn't.

It's semi-animated. If we cover this, it's because you made me. It's the road trip. No. Fuck. No. No, That's the fourth one I believe Yes Oh it's Chipwrecked This is the third one

Alvin and the Chipmunks Chipwrecked I don't care about those guys No I believe it's a Mike Mitchell film That's right Spoonman The Trolls guy

Right Yeah No and then you got Tintin What's it number six Opening this week We covered it on this podcast Family comedy Family-ish comedy

We've invoked another film By this director On this very podcast Clint Eastwood family comedy No Not me We've invoked another film By this director

We've covered this director In full Oh it's We bought a zoo Cha-ching We bought a zoo Haven't seen it I feel like I know what happens Great American movie You would be We Bought a Zoo. Cha-ching. We Bought a Zoo. I haven't seen it. I feel like I know what happens.

Great American movie. You would be surprised. Some of the twists and turns. You've also got War Horse. You've got New Year's Eve. You've got The Darkest Hour, but not the Winston Churchill one. It's like the teens. And you have Jason

Siegel in the Muppets yeah a movie I loved at the time and now think is in many ways culturally responsible for a lot of the worst trends in Hollywood a little bit I do that is the original might be one of the codifying of the legacy equal yeah about how great the fans are exactly right and how and how

we have to have a scene where this happens we have to have a scene where this happens. We have to have a scene where that happens. And it fucking played me like a fiddle when I saw it in theaters. Yeah. And it's perhaps been diminished

by other people running its playbook. How do you feel about Muppet? I like when they're getting all the Muppets back together and they go to the dog in the hammock and they're like,

you want to come? And he's like, yeah, okay. That's such a good bit. Such a good bit such a great bit there's that's funny fun you know because all the others are like sort of high concepts like that guy would just get the first time the muppets had been successfully funny in over 10 years so i grant it a lot sure because like the the bits are really good but it is wild if you look at that movie how much it feels like force awakens is using that as the template no

you're totally right. Here's the fan who's obsessed with the legacy of all these characters and has to bring them all back together to remake the original thing. Well, it's also like last year I rewatched all the Muppet show when it was on Disney Plus.

It might still be on Disney Plus. The greatest TV show of all time. And it's like, once I watched that as an adult, I was like, the Muppets movie is, what is this? You know? But it's in that same way that Force Awakens is doing it.

It's like, we're just going to reset everything back to what the show was. We're going to recreate the show. Right. And wipe away, like, 20 years of versions of these characters that people don't like. Right. Yeah. Yeah. The Muppet Show is the best.

Yeah. The Muppet Show is the best. It's the peak of television. You've got to show it to your daughter, David. I will. When she's ready when when is a good time no she's definitely not when is it good to know who all the guys are yeah she's not into diane cannon like yeah that's a good way to introduce her yeah there's gonna have to be a lot

of explaining of 80s celebrities to her i guess this was so much of my childhood was watching the muppet show and being like that person's my favorite actor and my parents being like they died 35 years ago there's no new i can't believe you're this podcast twitter account is what told me that james reborn was dead reborn yeah i genuinely didn't know and he's being dead right like that's not new i didn't know he's now why would i know that am i googling dead one of the best to ever do it are you googling? Is that what you just said? Fran, you should set Google news alerts for dead. For dead, yeah.

Just so you don't miss these. Yeah, if I thought that, this movie is a bad vibe. My Google alert for dead will help. Anything else on the box office worth talking about? We honestly did a good job with this one. I thought we would have to blast through it, but we would blast through and we should do a backup, but I don't think we need to.

That's memory lane. We hadn't, all these were. It's time for Saw. Years ago. Time for Saw. Saw one and a half. It is almost time for Saw. Saw it off, David.

This film was not made for five Oscars. It won. Editing? Editing. That's going well. Somewhat surprising win, because usually that goes to a Best Picture nomination. Yes. Right.

I remember once it won, you were like, well, now Best Picture. Go anyway. And then it went one way with pleasure with pleasure yeah what if selen skarsgård showed up in the artist though do you know that 400 academy awards i swear that's the actual if you look at it they invented new categories just to give to the arts. One of the last and worst tricks that Weinstein played on us was like,

everyone loves this. And you look at the box office and you're like, it did okay. It did okay. Like, this wasn't even a phenomenon. And he was like,

no, Hollywood has fallen back in love with movies through the artists. And you're like, it's fine. The successful selling of it as a populist people's favorite.

Fuck off. So the weird thing is it won like every Critics Award Best Picture. What did New York pick that year? Playing at the festivals, I remember some Oscar handicapper being like,

look, I think this movie might win as the populist favorite, but no Critics Award is going to go to this film. God, New York gave it the Best Picture. That is crazy. You need to take,

you need to hold them accountable. You would not believe how many New York gave it the best picture. That is crazy. You need to take, you need to hold them accountable. You would not believe how many orgs gave it to that. Look, it is quote unquote, I think it's an amazing year for film, but it is seen as a weak year. Yes. Like The Descendants was obviously

one of the really big movies that year. I do not care. Not a big fan of that movie. But Moneyball is this year. Moneyball is this year, but that's the thing. Moneyball, Dragon Tattoo, even, you know, stuff like T Tinker, Tinker, Taylor.

Tinker, Taylor, Hugo. Taken for granted a little bit. Taken for granted. Dismissed as commercial. Like, dismissed... Or not dismissed, but seen as like, yeah, well, you know. And then, like, stuff like Melancholia, Tree of Life, you know, maybe just slightly too arty for whatever.

No, and you're right. Margaret, like, is there, but it's critical. The Great American movie. Steam is just busy. The Dragon Tattoo arc was so fascinating of it, like, coming out, underperforming a little bit

at the box office. The heat before it was like, this is the last movie for people to see. Maybe this comes in and is fucking Oscar runaway, especially because Fincher is sort of overdue now

post-Social Network. What's David's look? There's some banging. Yeah, I heard banging. Really? I didn't hear the banging. What is this, Act 4 of Girl with the Dragon Tattoo by David Fincher? There's some banging next door.

Well, at least we're wrapping up. But it felt like they were like, okay, so this has no Oscar chances. Then Fincher got the DGA nom. It got a PGA nom. It suddenly felt like, oh, is this a frontrunner again? And then it gets actress.

It gets editing. It gets sounding. It gets a handful, but only wins the again. Right. And then it gets actress, it gets editing, it gets, uh, sound editing. It gets, it gets a handful, but only wins the one. Yeah. And Rooney Marr,

that's the realistic legacy of this is I feel like this is the movie that fully stamps her as like an interesting actress. Um, definitely. And then has a great few years. Yeah.

She'll come back. She's doing something interesting now, isn't she? Or she just did. Carol Good. Carol Good. Uh Carol She's doing something interesting now I love Carol Isn't she? Or she just did Carol good Carol good What's Rooney doing now? She's got something interesting in the hopper

I ain't talking about Dennis Carol too Still caroling Back in New Jersey Yeah Well she made that Lynn Ramsey movie Whenever that comes out Yes

With her husband Joaquin Phoenix Yes I don't know if they're married But her partner. That seems to be the big one. Maybe she's going to play Audrey Hepburn in a movie? Yeah, which, look, if anyone is...

Yeah. Yeah. I love her. Final thoughts. And I love Fran. I love Fran. We all love Fran. My final thought is I hate when they kill the cat we didn't mention that the cat gets chopped up hate that and the fucking man that's what i'm like really like i'm in a bad mood watching that martin did that oh does he confirm it at a certain point he's clearly

trying to scare blomqvist off because he says the thing about like you know it's harder than shooting someone missing them which is what I did with you. Sure. And I think the cat is him too. Yeah. It would be funny if it was like, no, it was that weird old lady. That's what I was going to say.

I think it's the old lady. Well, the swastika thing is, we can't get into this, but I always feel that it's weird that it's a swastika. It feels like he's framing the super old Nazi for it. Right. He might be trying to just point it to like, yeah, you know, it's a person that died.

It's Nazi Island or whatever. Right. Yeah. That's it. Fran, you're be trying to just point it to like, yeah, you know, it's a person that died. It's Nazi Island or whatever. Yeah. That's it. Fran, you're the best. Thank you so much for having me. Fran Magazine. Yeah. Fran Magazine. Fran Magazine is wonderful. It's really good. You should really subscribe to it, guys. Fran is on a slice of her own work. It's not silly.

Sometimes it is. Well, sure. Well, I've been doing, you know, three months of maestro blogging, but... Not enough. I know. I doing, you know, three months of Maestro blogging. Not enough. I know. I've got to ride this out through the rest of the year. No, I have a good time on there. We have a good time reading it.

Everyone should. Thank you. Thank you for gifting us with another Blockbuster episode. You're so welcome. Thank you for having me. Presumably we'll just break the charts. Hope so. Yeah.

Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media and helping to produce the show and letting Fran know that James Rebhorn had died. Thank you to A.J. McKeon and Alex Barron for our editing, Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel

for our theme song, Joe Bowen, Pat Rounds for our artwork, J.J. Birch for being our own little Elizabeth Salander and putting together the research for this episode. He know how to do computer. He know how to do computer. He know how to do computer. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon blank check special features, where we are going through the Pierce Brosnan, James Bond movies.

Also, there's a free membership you can sign up for. Every 10 days, we unlock an episode from three years earlier. And I think that's still the Alien franchise? That sounds about right. Who knows? We'll never know. I'm telling you, I'm pretty confident that's what it is. Yeah.

You know, 2020, normal time. But then, yes, very soon we will then have Alien Resurrection. It's the one where Ben falls asleep. Good app. Great app. It's the one where Ben falls asleep. Good ep. Great ep. It's a great ep. One of our best. Trump have COVID.

Tune in next week. I'm awake. All right, all right. We got to be done. Tune in next week for Gone Girl. And as always, David, what are you ordering for lunch? Shake Shack. People are going to fucking lose their minds.

Chicken sandwich or burger? Chicken sandwich.