Blank Check with Griffin & David - Trap

Episode Date: August 11, 2024

You know the Butcher? That freakin' nutjob that goes around just chopping people up? Well, we’re about to spend nearly three hours talking about him! Join us as we unpack TRAP - the devilishly entertaining new thriller from M. Night Shyamalan, with special insights from our own David Sims, who spent much of this year interviewing Night at his compound in Philadelphia. We’re talking about a bunch of things - dads, serial killers, how much we don’t like going to concerts, the sexy elephant mascot of the New York Liberty, Josh Hartnett’s career arc - when we’re not excusing ourselves to go to the bathroom to uh…check on some apps. Read David’s Profile of M. Night Read Esther’s Article on The Shyamalans Check out the Saleka merch This episode is sponsored by: ExpressVPN (ExpressVPN.com/check) MeUndies (MeUndies.com/check) MUBI (mubi.com/blankcheck) Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! 

Blackjack with Griffin and David Blackjack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blackjack Psst. What's with all the police trucks outside and the cameras everywhere at Griffin? Not supposed to tell. Something happening? Don't brag me out. I won't. You know the podcast?

Blank check that fucking mess that goes on for like three hours and half the time they're not even talking about the movie. Well Warner Brothers heard that if they put a new release in theaters from a director they've covered previously, they have to talk about it. And more listeners will tune in because it's a new release film. And so maybe they'll actually stay on topic for the majority of the time and create a clean entry point episode. It's a trap.

They're watching the clocks. They're checking all the bits. There's no way for them to fuck this up. It's kind of dope, right? This whole podcast is a trap. This whole podcast is a trap. I will say this. Anytime we have to talk about a new M. Night Shyamalan movie,

it does feel like a trap of our own making. Why? Because- I look forward to it. I look forward to it. It does feel like he is the guy who most consistently makes our corner of the internet lose their mind in both directions. And that's part of the fun of it for me, for me.

For sure. For me. For me. But it's funny for how much he has become a like, I know exactly what I make, here's what I deliver, I want audience to have thrills and shows and fun. He feels like a guy where every time there's a new movie, there's like an insane bruise being poked

of people arguing on both sides. It does feel like every time there's, oh, people are gonna be like this about it. And then some people are like this quote-unquote about it And everyone's like see here they go saying it's bad. They don't understand like and then there's just automatic Hackles raise look there's a lot to talk about there's always a lot to talk about with M. Night more than ever now that you've spent About half a year really thinking about him. We're gonna talk about it. We're gonna talk about it on what? Blank check with Griffin and David. It's a trap half a year really thinking about him. We're gonna talk about it. We're gonna talk about it. On what?

Blank Check with Griffin and David. It's a trap. About filmography. It's a trap! Directors who have massive success early on in their careers, like say their third movie is The Sixth Sense. True.

One of the highest grossing films of all time. Third. Third. Third, theatrically. Having now spoken to M. Night Shyamalan about Praying with Anger, which he has lovingly restored and is getting ready to show to his children I was about to ask is there gonna be a fucking hard physical? I asked him and he was kind of like I don't know man

Like you know, I think even he's like does anyone really want to see that but he's like I have cleaned it up So my kids can watch it. I'm embarrassed to show it to them. But look, I have so many tidbits guys Here's my take cuz he's also saying like I'm trying to restore like the visit and shit Yeah, right. He should get praying with anger as a special feature sure on a 4k release of one of his other films Well, you know how like his old DVDs. Maybe you don't know this or don't remember this but I You're talking about the Vista series. I don't know. I don't know what that is. We're talking about the Vista series It was touchstones answer to the criterion collection. I'm not talking I'm saying on his old TVs He would put a short film

He'd made as a teenager as a DVD extra like it's a little joke that vividly on the Vista series releases So it could be kind of like an elaborate version of that. And there's a lot of that like criterion say a Thing that people would react to very normally if any of my film I post this question to Twitter once where I was like, not counting the previous Michael Bay editions, who will get the first, like, current day criterion release, Michael Bay or M. Night Shyamalan?

M. Night Shyamalan. I think it's Shyamalan for sure. I think it's Shyamalan. I see a village criterion. Yeah, I mean, Shyamalan makes more sense in that. A village is the one that would make sense. But he also has a lot of control over a lot of his stuff, maybe not the village, but like so he could easily license it.

But I don't know if he wants to. I don't know. I think he'd want to. Why is Timothy Rose not in this movie? We'll get into it. Early success like the Sixth Sense was given a series of blank checks, make whatever crazy passion products they want.

And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. And sometimes you decide that you've become the bank and you issue your own checks and bet the fucking house on the movie every time. Was talking about this with Ben last night, producer Ben. Where were you guys? Where were you guys last night? We went to go see Trap. Oh, you went to see it a second time? My second time.

Ben's first. Oh, Ben hadn't seen it. Ben hadn't seen it. It was a bit of a trap to get him to see it. It wasn't, he suggested. Yeah. But this was the first director we properly covered on this show.

That is absolutely true. Our first real blank check mini series was on the films of M. Night Shyamalan. This is now. They went up to the visit. Went up to the visit. He's made five films since this movie series began. The only guy who stayed kind of of pace with him

in terms of directors we've covered, putting out films on a regular basis is Steven Spielberg. Steven Spielberg and Shyamalan told me about the time they hung out when I interviewed him. We're getting told! Oh my god, we're getting so many tidbits! So many tidbits! But when we did that fucking series, neither you or I had seen The Visit.

And people had said The Visit was good. And you and I were both a little side-eye about it. We were absolutely approaching that series from the sort of like, wow, the boom and busts, and then oh, I guess he made a little horror movie that's nice for him. Well, close. Right, but like. Even if he made a nice little low budget found footage horror movie, he's not really gonna be back.

And then you and I both watched it and we were like, this thing rules? Yeah, good. And then he's had this insane third act of his career? I put it to him as a third act and he agreed. And I don't think it's the final act. No, I just said, I think your career has three phases and before I even started explaining he was like yeah that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Which has been fascinating

for us to cover. Here's some questions I've thought of in relation to this. Now that like this is a five film, six if we count the visit, I would put this visit into this third act. Of course. Right? The visit is the start. Yeah. Has any director in history ever consciously, strategically chosen to go from highbrow to lowbrow in the way that he has? I mean, wait, I'm sure, yes. Right? Like, directors who are kind of prestige Golden Age-y or, you knowy or like guys who then went into genre stuff later in their career.

I don't know. But strategic as well. I don't know, I don't know. I'm not, maybe not. It is what makes him so fascinating to me and this act now that it is a proper act and has had its own sort of arc within it. I mean, there's no perfect analog for what he's doing

because what he's, the money part of what he's doing is specific. He is one of one. But he's getting more and more carpenter references. Like people keep comparing him to carpenter, not in terms of like their approach to storytelling or whatever, but just kind of right. Like their consistency in the kinds of things

they wanna make and how, you know, their craft, but always in genre and, you know, I don't know, there's a lot of carpenter comparisons that are, people are gonna get so mad that I even said that, so I'm like, tripping over myself. It's crap! Why? Because everyone gets so weird about M. Night Shyamalan. They do.

They do, Marie. Marie, Barty, party. Oh wait, have we introduced ourselves? Salinas,? Salinas? Hardy Salinas. I'm I'm Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims. The intro was a little abstract. It's a throwback to the first episode Playing with angry while awake where we didn't know what the fuck we were doing. No, we're usually tight as a drum Come on hi, this is my voice. I'm Ben. I said producer Ben. I didn't list all the nicknames, but they do call him the butcher No, but I think butcher implies a poor editing job right butchered it no I'm saying chopping it up like

Conversationally. Yeah, I chop it up. Yeah Okay, I'd be chopping right be chopping on the editing side. I think he's more of a surgeon He goes in with a scalpel who else is here a lady. I said Marie. This is actually getting really bad It's now becoming a problem how bad this is not great No, my name is David Sims. This is Marie Barty. That's Griffin Newman. This is Ben Osley is trap cast a podcast about trap a totally normal movie that we all liked a lot We're here to talk about M. Night Shyamalan's new film, Trap. I am a writer for The Atlantic and I wrote a feature about M. Night Shyamalan related to this movie, which is why I keep talking about tidbits.

This was your first major feature profile of someone in this way. It was my first print feature. I've written print stories before, but a print feature. You were talking to him across trucks for ever how many months I? so We're here to discuss trap. Yeah, we've set everything up. I said everything pod night sham a cast. Yeah fun Remember that remember when we used to think oh the format will always be put podcast into the directors name. What would the new? What would it would it be like? Povit cash.

Podcast in the water. Look, oh, oh, oh. Knock at the podcast. You know, like what would, if we were gonna make the mini series title one of his movies. Yeah. Podcasting with anger, never. No, I think you're right that it would be

podcasts in the water. It's a little boring, so I'm glad we're still at PodNight Shammacast. I would say that my editor Laura Bennett, my print editor, called me last summer, so a full year ago, and said, what do you think about M. Night Shyamalan profile pegged to the next movie he's doing? So that is how long this has been in like sort of quote unquote in the works. And I was like, yes, and here's what I would wanna do.

And she was like, great. And then she went to his people and then it's like, it's the opposite, like it's the most complicated version of talking to someone that exists in my biz, I feel like. But when did you first meet him? March or April? Let's find out, look at my calendar. I feel like. But when did you first meet him? March or April? Let's find out. Look at my calendar.

I think it was April. And so yeah, so I hung out with him. I think the first call with his people was in March, and then I hung out with him in April and May. And then I called and talked to a bunch of other people related to him and related to this movie. And then, yeah, so, you know, and I saw the movie fully done,

like in late July, and he was there, and we hung out. And then he was going to get dinner with Josh, and I wanted to come, but I couldn't invite myself. People kept asking, knowing that you were working on this thing, has David seen the movie yet? And I just kept saying, like, he's still not done with it. Yeah, I saw like, you know, an unfinished version first at his. The whole thing is that I went to his compound.

This was my whole when Laura was like, do you want to do M. Night Shyamalan? I was like, one, I've talked and thought about M. Night Shyamalan a fair amount. So sure. Two, I am fascinated, as are we all by his Pennsylvania compound, right? His you know, I don't live in Hollywood and I don't shoot movies in Los Angeles. I do it all from home in Pennsylvania with my kids near me. And although this movie was shot in Toronto, which we'll talk about that. But like his Pennsylvania operation.

And I was like, nothing else I want to go there. So I drove over to Ravenwood. It is beautiful For a couple days with night and I will talk to you guys about how that went And we're also gonna talk about trap also that this Pennsylvania compound is his capital for his movies In that he well it yes at least for the visit and stuff Now I know the house anymore, okay, but there was a poetic beauty to it now I think he's made enough off of this run of the six third act movies that he has more money to play with but at That point in time it was like for the house where it was right. He made that movie

With essentially by mortgaging his property Yeah Right. He made that movie with essentially by mortgaging his property for a few million dollars and then showed it to, I think, every single studio. And they all said no until Universal came back around because Blum was interested. Yeah. And that was late. But like, that's how tenuous it got. Yeah. What has it been? I'm looking at this architectural digest piece about his house.

It looks fucking nice. So. So nice. Damn. M. Night Shyamalan's Trap. Yes fucking nice. So. So nice. Damn. M921's trap. Yes, no, so yeah, I drove there. We will talk about the movie soon, but I guess I'm in this now.

People wanna hear this. Yeah, I drove over to, it's in the main line. It's where Murray grew up-ish, right? Ish, I mean. Chester County, I believe it's called. No, Montgomery County, but like. Well, that's where you grew up. That's where I grew up.

But this is where he is. Yeah, he's more out by like horse country like he's by the horse where as I was not He is like next door to the Foxcatcher ranch, which he right told me about It's a big inspiration for the village. How close does he live to the village? Like the village where they shot the village know the village where the people live as if it is still Like the village where they shot the village? No, the village where the people live, as if it is still. It's in his backyard. It's part of the compound.

Hurt's not dead, he's just in the village. And so, yeah, I drive out there, I remember I got there, and I park, and someone comes out and is like, are you here to talk tonight? And I was like, yeah. He was like, I'm his driver. And I was like, oh, what's that like? He's like, I've been doing it for years. I love it, great guy.

And he was like, psst, can I tell you a secret? This whole thing's a trap for you. This guy makes movies. Have you heard about M. Night Shell? And so he has these giant ranch offices that are gorgeous where all the editing and post-production and other stuff happens. And I'm there and then his assistant runs up to me

and she's like, night is at his house Right now so we're just gonna go there and so she drives me across the estate to his Gigantic mansion, which is what Ben was looking at. Mm-hmm sort of it looks like an Oxford University building like or what? It's like a very nice old style kind of And then I'm whisked into the basement where he has a gigantic movie theater with these like big shirtless statues mm-hmm are the columns holding up the ceiling not of him he said it was Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast was the inspiration for the design very kind of like fun gothic you know vibes and he is with Ishana, his daughter, mixing the Watchers.

Sure. Watcher? Watchers. Watchers. The Watcher is the one with Keanu Reeves. Yes. Watch out for that guy. He's got a piece of...

Piano wire. Piano wire? Yeah. Okay, I just remember the hands with the... Piano wire. Some sort of string. And so my introduction to him was right, was just, they were just like, sit down, sit down, he's working, he's working.

And it's like him and Deshauna mixing a movie, which is, have you ever seen anyone mix a movie, Griff? You might have, it's pretty cool. It's very cool. Because it's literally like, okay, go to 36, and then they like go to a time code, and then it's just like a monster hand grasping a tree branch, and they're like, can it be like crunchier?

Right. Like, can we bring up the, you know know like they're talking about it in such hilarious detail so granular and if you're just there visiting it's so bizarre is it a visit it's so bizarre to enter into that stream where it's like all of this has almost become disassociated for them right they're not thinking about it's tiny little pieces now. Right, and you're just like, I don't understand what I'm looking at,

and you're replaying it back like 60 times with the most minor variations. Yes. Yeah, it's an interesting experience. Cool, and I've had- Editors I also feel like are very cool in temperament. The whole team's there, and they were all cool. They like the podcast.

I got so much Hey, I know who you are Like other not from night from other guy, you know from his team nights more of a chapel guy. Yeah. Oh, yeah. God he loves Ben just gave me a look to end all looks No, he probably just loves like, you know, locked on sixers podcasts, like just sports podcasts. And Stavi, baby. I've had like, I've had directors before night tell me like that the sound mixing is like to them, like the most fun part in a way I would try to get.

Cool. Yes. Anyway, so then I and then I hung out with them. The hanging out with him is just hanging out with him. I mean, his office is gorgeous. He's got this gigantic cathedral-sized room, posters on the wall, all his scripts. Did I tell you this, Griff?

All his scripts for every movie. He sent me a picture. All right, and bound leather volumes of every draft. Yeah. And so you have- That's crazy. You know, like the Sixth Census, he showed me there's like 14 drafts.

You know, I'm approximating the numbers, but like there's a bunch, because he was like that movie took a while because it kept changing and, you know, the twist doesn't come until a few drafts in or whatever. Right. And then like... What do you mean the twist doesn't come

until a few drafts in? He didn't have the twist initially. Like it was a ghost story. Like, yeah. Which is the secret to why the Sixth Census. Yes. Because if it was just ghost story. Like, yeah. Which is the secret to why The Sixth Sense is a masterpiece. Because if it was just built around the twist, it would feel like it would fall apart quicker. I feel like on rewatch.

Right, it worked so well as like a human character. And obviously the Nate Bargatze joke about how it made sense to audiences that his wife is just mad at him and giving him the silent treatment for a year. You're like, yeah, it basically does. I mean, that's the real masterstroke of the movie. Whereas other things like signs, like movies where You're like, yeah, it basically does. I mean, that's the real masterstroke of the movie. Whereas other things like signs, like movies where he was like,

it was really easy to write that movie, you would see there were only like five drives or whatever. And there is Labor of Love and Black Sheep has two unmade films. Labor of Love is the one that Bruce was going to do with them. The one that has had various like almost getting off the ground moments and then, you know, didn't happen. And that one's more of a drama without supernatural elements? It's like a drama about a guy who lost his wife

and is maybe, like, walking across the country. It always sounded to me when it was described like him trying to circle back to a praying with anger type thing. I think from what I understood, he wrote it very early, and it's like the sixth Sense is him being like, well, genre is an interesting way for me to express things. But before that, right, he was more doing family stuff and more straightforward, trickly kind of drama stuff.

And the other thing we talked about when we did our Sixth Sense episode fucking eight years ago is that he went into the sixth sense being like, I need to write a script that is undeniable. Like he was like, I've had two at bats that didn't totally connect in the way I wanted to. One was sort of a trial movie. One got fucked by Miramax. What is a thing that like the script is so good that they'll let me direct it and they won't fight me on it. Cause this script is the asset.

Like I control the power by having it. Few things he told me about that one, his kid had just been born, his first kid, Salika Night Shyamalan. I don't think she had the knight when she was a baby. Yeah, she took that on. Salika. You mean Lady Raven. Lady Raven, of course.

Lady Raven in the film Trap 2024, a Warner Brothers picture. Yes. A blinding edge production. So his daughter had just been born, so he said that he would have to switch from the baby to like, okay, I have an hour to write, you know, like focus. The focus was very important for him. But yes, obviously his whole thing with the Sixth Sense was, I want to direct this and have Final Cut.

Right. So I will make it for a small budget and then there is an insane bidding war. Yes. And Disney is like, well now Bruce Willis wants to be in your movie which will take the budget beyond final cut right or at or II and He said like that was his big gamble But the other then he said Bruce protected him basically But he was kind of like you like they were like look Bruce wants to be in your movie good news

Now your movie can be made for a lot of money I appraised bad news your contract says you know it's under 10 million is when you get final cut over you don't get it anymore But there's also the insane kind of luck and happenstance in that in that Bruce Willis had walked off the Lee Grant movie There's the movie about a sports agent that he was supposed to make with Lee Grant I forget who the female lead was okay, and he walked off like a weekend to film Broadway brawler Thank you more attorney was gonna be in it. Might've been good. It sounds kinda rad. But he walked off and Disney sued him and part of the settlement was that he owed them two movies.

Three movies. Three. Armageddon, The Sixth Sense, and of course, Disney's The Kid. So that's the one where you kinda feel like he's like, all right, you need one more, what shit you got. Yes. And we got a movie called The Kid, sounds good.

But that's the thing, it was like, he was gonna get paid his full fee, but he owed them three, and so they're going to him and saying, here's what we have. Yeah, what do you think, what do you think, what do you think? Like that script might have never crossed his eyes

had he not been stuck in a deal like that, because they would have been looking for a less expensive star, a lower budget production. 100%. And suddenly it's like, anything you want to do, we have to cash these in. And obviously changes his life. Changes everyone's life.

Connected to that movie. Willis, you're right. Colette, obviously Haley D'Lazman, the city of Philadelphia. Donnie Wahlberg. Yes. Us? Us.

It does? I mean honestly? For sure. Yeah. Box office game was born that day when we did the Sixth Sense? Yeah. Anyway, and then yeah, look, we know that, look, listen to Blank Check, you know the highs and lows of his life.

Right. But what are some interesting, you know, unbreakable, very hard for him to make. Yes. He says you can tell in the movie just how tortured I am and how difficult, like, you know, I felt you whatever like It's the pressure Osperkins was on a big picture recently. I listened and he talked about he and Jordan Peele are friends yes, and they read each other scripts and

Jordan was in nope. Yes, Jordan Peele sent him the nope script and he was like, this is incredible I can't believe they're letting you make this I like have to fight to get like half a million dollars to make my things and Jordan Peele's response was yeah But the difference is every movie I make now needs to be the best movie ever made Right, and he said that's not what I like of self-importance, but a sense of burden that is very similar to where M night was starting with unbreakable, where it's like, the expectations are so high on me now, and that is a movie that I think is him wrestling with those expectations.

I mean, he claims to me, obviously, no, I mean, like we went right into it, because obviously the movie's made so quickly after Sixth Sense, like I- It comes out 14 months later. But, you know, he says, like, difficult birthing. The signs, he says, the happiest, most fun he's ever had making a movie. Makes sense to me. The village, you know, inspired- I mean, it, difficult birthing. The signs he says the happiest, most fun he's ever had making a movie.

Makes sense to me. The village, you know. I mean, it was at his house. I love the village. I told him over and over again, it's my favorite of his movies, which he was like, sure. But the director's always just kind of like, okay.

Did he say anything about working with Joaquin? No, I didn't talk to him about Joaquin. I mean, should I have? Yeah. No. Like, it would've been funny if I was like, the village. Joaquin and Adrian Brody, pains in the ass? Yeah. Like, it would've been funny if I was like the village. Joaquin and Adrian Brody? Pains in the ass? Yeah.

Like, but he worked with Joaquin twice. Right, that's what, yeah. So my guess is they vibed. We were just talking about this before we started recording the episode. Joaquin is a particular, you know, you know, slice of Boar's head. Sure.

And those things are getting recalled from supermarkets right now. But, look, Knight has this very dreamy, if it feels right, it's right vibe to everything. Yes. He kept telling me, and it's not really hard to, it's easy to believe that. Yes.

Something like Lady in the Water, you're like, which is where my editor was like, dig into this, like call Nina Jacobson, which I did which was fun I like sent the email to Nina Jacobson who was head of Disney at the time, right? Who is the person who said like I don't get this script and he tearfully was like then you don't believe in me And then took takes that movie to Universal weren't brothers That was Warner Brothers. Is it it is and then he didn't work with them again until this one Yeah, but you know, he takes it away from Disney.

Yes. And that's the end of his relationship with Disney. He sent her the script and was like, you need to read this right now. And she's like, I'm at my child's birthday party. Or maybe a child's birthday party. The big story is their meeting, which is in the Hagueographical book written about him, what's it called? The Man Who Heard Voices.

The Man Who Heard Voices. Yeah. Where he's crying, and she's like, I'll make the movie, but you need to explain it to me. I'm not even saying no, I just don't really know what's going on here. Right, and his response is basically like, I need you to tell me you're proud of me.

Right, you don't believe in me. And I email her, because obviously now she's just this big shot who does the Hunger Games. Right. You know, she's just, she does her own thing. Yes. And I was like, she's not going to email me back. Because I'm kind of emailing her being like, do you want to talk shit about M. Night Shyamalan? Sure.

And she emails me back immediately and I get on the phone with her. And she's like, look, we're number one, we figured it out. We're fine now. Right. You know, as in Hollywood. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I didn't get it. In Hollywood, yeah, exactly. But yeah, I didn't get it. And I was like, did you see the movie?

And she's like, yeah, it was the script. It was the thing I didn't get. All of my problems were there. It was not like that movie got changed in any way. But talk about a movie that is just him following what feels right to him. 100%. Did you see The Watchers?

I didn't, sadly. It was during a busy couple of weeks. Oh, yeah. And I was traveling, and it did not have a very long theatrical run, and I was meaning to rent it before this, and I instead saw Trap a second time. Well, that's fine. I mean, did anyone see The Watchers? It kind of came and went. I really liked it. I'm the only person who liked it. I did not know what it was about, which I guess is a spoiler.

Yes, maybe don't say. I won't say, but once I... You mean like what it's revealed to be about. Correct. But once I found that out, I was way more interested in seeing the movie. It feels like a movie made by someone for whom lady in the water was a bedtime story Yes, you know what I mean? Yes, like it's the truest example of his yes is His nepo baby children now creating works They're adults to make it and you're like I can feel the un-nice shum on your new baby

You're not just making a routine thing. Let's dig into the heart of this right so much of the press around this One family this hard for this to be the angle obviously because so many of his movies are about family and all that But let's even back up from this the like Shyamalan family industrial complex right the growing Shyamalan This like oh this summer is Warner Brothers releasing a movie by his daughter and a movie made by him Starring his daughter as the biggest pop star in the world with songs she wrote. Right. He has three children, right? I'm so impressed that she wrote all of those songs Yeah, she's like a real musician Yeah

The whole Genesis of the movie is I think him being like should we do a movie where you do music and I do a movie and we'd Like figure out how does that what's a movie that could have your music in it? I will say, it is not my type of music. It falls into the like, whatever episode we recorded where I was adamant that I had not heard Espresso and you guys were like, you've heard it and you just don't think you've heard it.

You've ambiently heard it, right. And I was like, I don't know, every song sounds like this to me. I'm kind of with you on that. Oh my God, I completely disagree. I mean, not on Espresso. Not Espresso, Espresso is a lightning bolt of a pop song. I want to feel that way. Thank you on that. Oh my god. I completely disagree. I mean not on this press espresso Is a lightning bolt of a pop song. I want they feel that way. I am not well about it I like so much pop when it like cuts through for me and the way people talked about it

I was like this is gonna feel like fucking green lighter me You know, this is gonna be one of those songs that like fucking slices through espresso has made no impact on me watching trap I I did feel like, yeah, this sounds like what all pop music sounds like to me, or let's say 90% of pop music, it passes the sniff test in that sense. I think the songs in Trap are serviceable. That's what I'm saying.

I don't think they're particularly distinguishable from one another, or memorable, but I don't think that matters. I wanna hear them, I actually haven't listened because you can listen to them. There's a soundtrack. And I've only heard them in the context of the movie when your brain is kind of focused. Well, no, it's a different movie.

Sure. But yeah, she's sort of like a Dua Lipa. That's like what's going on up there, right? Ariana Grande, R&B influence. Because initially, I was telling people, yeah, it's like, what if there was like a Taylor Swift concert? Definitely not Taylor Swift. And then I watched Taylor Swift.

Right, and I watched the start of the movie. I'm like, right. No, she's a little more like a Dua Lipa like famous can pack an arena but not like Sunshiney poppy, you know, and we were even as brat, right? I Don't know. I don't think she is. Yeah. Okay, but it's the butcher breath. Yes Oh, he is having a brat summer. He is. In that arena. What I was gonna say. The way that he snatched that guy into the van. Oh, that was so brat.

That was so brat. That was fueled by cocaine. Let's put a pin in that and come back to that. Can you press the button that explodes the podcast now, Ben? The red button that just deletes everything we've ever done. Blows up the whole thing. This is it? I don't think.

Okay, you're gonna keep the container on it for now? I don't think I wanna do that. Okay, all right, all right. What I was gonna say is- But it's available to us. It's not like, oh, there's been a Neppo baby backlash to the Shamlats. It's like, this has been the narrative that he is like,

here is my family. I've always cared about my family. I never realized that his daughter was born right when he was writing Sixth Sense. That the whole, like the start of his career connecting with the public is part and parcel with him being a father, which is pretty young. I mean, he's one of the few directors to get nominated under the age of 30 for best director. Yes, he would have been 29 when Sixth Sense came out. So he probably starts writing at a 27?

Yeah, yeah, Salika was born in 1996 Yeah, so he would have been like, you know, he met his wife in college and you know married her after that Ishana who directed the Watchers was born I think in 2000 or 99 or something. I mean Shivani which is the only Shaman I haven't met works is that the Fashion Institute of Technology So they're all like, yeah, it's like Salika does music, Ishana does movies, you know, Shivani does fashion. Like they're all in, right, the arts. Yes. What I was gonna say is,

his movies have always been very fascinating, but children, they've often had children as central focal points. It's usually an adult trying to understand that they're child. Sometimes they're child. Thai Thai boys. Sometimes they are so tired, you wouldn't believe it. Can't even wake up. Even when they're awake,

they're snoring while they're brushing their teeth. Sometimes they're really tired. They stand up. But yeah, no, like Sixth Sense, obviously, Haley Jollison, Unbreakable has Spencer treat cars. Science has Breslin and Culkin. But this sort of like adults being a little confounded by children and children who seem a little more mature

than the adults. Right. This feels like the movie. And I would say before this point, the film of his that is most the two films. Well, let me let me back this up right. He has talked so much about his period where he feels like he lost his way. There were a number of factors at play, but one of them is his children were of a certain age where he started feeling uncomfortable about making movies that were scary. Yeah, his sort of hired gun era, which is really just two movies. It's Last Airbender and After Earth.

Lady in the Water is, here's a story I tell my daughters at bedtime. What if I make this instead? Well, he does make the happening in the middle, in between Lady and the Beast. So like, yeah. Let me throw this thread out, right? And he goes to Nia Jacobson, she's like, this isn't like an M. Night Shyamalan movie.

He commits, he makes it, people are befuddled. Then- Angry, sure, right. I give you that. Now I feel like there's quiet reclamation, you on that episode are speaking up for it, and I'm like sort of incredulous. Oh, is our Bulbasaur off-sites?

That's his favorite film of all time. One of the great men on the internet, oh, is our Bulbasaur. For original listeners. But certainly at the time, derided. Correct. Yes. And people were like, this guy fucking, he blew it, he hit the button on the desk.

And he cast himself as the savior of humanity, and it was see-pinking. Right, the greatest writer. Happening feels like him he cast himself as the savior of humanity and like what is he thinking? Happening feels like him doing a strategic swing back of like, you know what, great, I'm gonna go as hard horror, R-rated, I'm gonna push the violence and people don't like it. No, I mean, the happening feels like the biggest, like I feel kind of like,

if that movie had different actors in it even, it would probably have been greeted as like, yeah, this is like a serviceable- Yeah, there's some really great set pieces in it. But I think it's the wind part. Look, I know that people may, I'm just like, I just think if it wasn't Wahlberg going, what's going on? Like it would not have been as derided as it was.

No, like if that movie was Joaquin and Bryce Dallas Howard. Do you not find wind scary? It is, if you think too hard about wind. I did see twisters. Wind can be very scary. Yes, and I can't say blanket statement, I don't think wind be scary. It can blow thing at you.

Blow thing at you. It can blow thing at you. It can blow thing at you. No, is wind, Brad, is my question. All right, and so moving on from the happening. I guess I gotta push the button. But I think happening is the moment where he has the sort of realization that he's talked about of like,

I feel like my heart's not in horror. There's something that feels a little gross to me about trying to like torture an audience. I'm a dad, my children are of an age now, I'm more engaged with their lives, they're not babies, you know? So then he makes Last Airbender, which is, here's the show I watch with my daughters. And look, it is undersung, but it was a hit. It was. People hated it. It's despised.

Yes. It's one of the most toxic hits of all time. It is. But it made a lot of money in theaters. As someone who's now seen all of the show and its sequel series. And you love them. And I love them.

I have not revisited the movie because I don't remember liking it. But Netflix had that sort of very faithful, quote unquote, version recently that nobody liked. And I saw some people kind of in that prequels way who had kind of grown up with that movie being like, you know, he got some stuff more right. And he kind of did this, which they didn't dare to do.

You know what I mean? Like I saw a little bit of that floating around and I was like we're gonna reclaim the last area Are we sure like but anyway, then he does After Earth which is like total for hire right let Smith pursuing him. Yeah, like pretty much Yeah, obviously with Smith being like here is right. I have a story idea Shaman writes it up until trap Right, I have a story idea. Shyamalan writes it. Up until Trap, that is the movie of his that is most explicitly about parenthood.

For how much it seems to be a major theme in his life. You have films that are impacted by his. Kids are present in basically every movie he ever makes except for, are they in The Happening? I guess, but they are, they're around. Yeah, they're kids. In The Happening, they end up adopting John Legasamo's daughter. That's sort of, I mean, he has different versions of family, of parenthood.

The Visit is obviously dealing with two levels of parenthood where it's so much about sort of, um, Catherine Hawn. He was really upfront with me with like, the Visit split, my kids are teenagers. Yeah. Like at that point, you know, the kids in the movies are teenagers. When they became teenagers and they were the audience, they were now the age where they could be an audience for a horror movie He was like I'm back into the idea of making nasty movies Look the word he kept using with me would trap. Yeah trap is devilish. Yeah, like he's like I'm having fun

I'm being a naughty boy. Let's let the devil out of the elevator like yeah, like You know, that's just, he's like, I have not, he said the movies that he's had the most fun, like writing and making are Signs, the Visit, and this. Where he's like, I am having the most fun. That makes me so happy. I am just like, kind of at my silliest, and kind of like, could I do this? Right, you know, like, cause like, Knock at, Old, Knock at the Cabin. Old I think is incredible.

Knock at the Cabin I think is good. incredible, Knock at the Cabin I think is good. I think Knock at the Cabin's okay. But those are both like pretty sad, obviously so weighted by like, oh my God, my kids are getting older than me, what happened to the babies? These kind of work for theories about humanity in those two movies.

I think old is fun at times, obviously, in a mid-sized sedan and there's all kinds of wacky stuff in it, but it's so sad. Doesn't old have kind of a hopeful ending because the whole thing of them escaping and like... It does, but I mean, it has really sad shit in it. No, it's sad. But I remember when we saw Knock at the Cabin, we kind of just... Knock at the Cabin is... We just stayed in our seats and we were just kind of bummed out by it.

It's a huge bummer, although it does also... End with boogie shoes. End happily in that they're not just all dead, I suppose. out by it. It's a huge bummer, although it does also end with boogie shoes and happily in that like they're not just all dead, I suppose. But not going to cabin is definitely the biggest bummer. Super bummer. And then for trap, I was giggling, cackling, clapping my hands, stomping my feet. And Griffin and I at one point pointed at each other. Yeah. Like, you know, so sold out that I could get one single seat, the row in front of you and your husband, Marie,

and then our friend Pat Willems sat one seat behind you. So occasionally we'd sort of turn around to give looks. Ben and I went last night, it was also nearly sold out. We thought we were gonna have to sit in the front row and then someone exchanged tickets, but it was basically sold out a Thursday at 7 p.m. Right, that's awesome. And good audience responses both times.

We can talk about the audience responses, which are interesting, and now feel like we've come back to a sort of like 2000s Shyamalan thing with the audiences alternating between feeling very locked in and kind of is this... Right. And laughing at points and it's like, is this a joke or not?

Yes, it's supposed to be fun I don't feel like obviously look the beach that makes you old was kind of a major meme, right? But like it feels like this is the first time in a while that the general culture has just kind of been on board With like it's like Josh Hartnett's a serial killer. I get it You know what I mean? Like right like everyone's like I want to see, right. I don't like him, you know what, I miss him. I want to see him, I'm glad he's here. You know, like there's a general cultural happiness. Let me try to tie a bow on the point

I've taken too long to try to make. But then Marie wants to say something. Yeah, no, absolutely, that's why I want to bow it up. Okay, bow it up. All of his films have, in so many ways, so directly related to his identity as a father. But he has not really explicitly been making a movie about his identity as a father until this one.

After Earth is so much more about Will Smith's relationship to his son as a father, even if he did write it. Ben turns to me like 30 minutes in and he's like, is it insane that I'm kind of rooting for him? And I went, no, this is- That's the point. The whole fucking point, this is what he's like, is it insane that I'm kind of rooting for him? And I went, no, this is the whole fucking point. This is what he's doing. And I think like the first time I saw it,

I was a little perplexed by like, I'm into this, but I wouldn't say I feel scared. I'm not feeling the thriller on edge thing. And then you realize the trick he's doing is he is building the discomfort from making you identify with this guy because this is the closest he's ever come to a self-insert character in any of his movies.

Griffin, he would be so happy to hear you say that because the first thing he said to me about Trap was that it was basically like, I wanted to like collapse protagonist in attack. Right? Like that's, that's the challenge I wanted to set myself. That's the first thing that's interesting to me about Trap. The trailer comes out, people go, why is he spoiling the twist? It's like's like no the twist is the setup because he's flipping the way you would usually watch a movie like this Which is most people would write this film where you're rooting for the guy and he's trying to help his daughter escape Under the assumption that they're trying to avoid the killer and at the end you find out he's the killer and instead

He's playing this fucking trick on the audience and being like no you gotta live with this guy We're gonna live in his head. You gotta fucking watch conversations basically from his POV very often, the way he shoots it. Sure. And it's because it is Shyamalan trying to reckon with like this 25-year cycle of like, why do I do this? What is this part of me that like defines myself as like an artist and as a father and I keep the two worlds separate until the summer of 2024.

He had always kept the two worlds separate, even though they were always kind of informing each other. And now it's like, I genuinely do care about my daughter and my family and being that kind of guy, but also there's a part of me that wants to do fucked up nasty shit. I wanna be devilish. And I fought it for a couple of years.

I said, that's too gross. Let me make fucking Will Smith movies and Nickelodeon adaptations because I didn't want to scare my daughters. But these two things coexist. And his daughter is the hero in the movie. That's, I mean, that's why all the shit's so interesting. Murray, what do you want to say?

By this time, I've forgotten. I'm so sorry. It's okay. Maybe something about, I was thinking about the social media marketing for this movie, which I really enjoyed, which is his fun facts. Yeah. And my child was personal Twitter account

that tweets out, right? Like. Fact number one, we shot this on film. Fact number two, you know, we are so locked into the protagonist's perspective that we own, like the camera's only catching what he could see of the concert. You only move closer to Salika, to Lady Raven, sorry,

if they move closer. That's fucking time. Fact number three, he hired Ty, director of photography, Siamvu Mudikram, off Call Me By Your Name. Obviously he- Also as an Apichapong. Is right, the Apichapong guy,

but also he shot Challengers this year, he's having a hot year. The movie looks so fucking good. It does. And it's a movie where he's creating a bunch of innate challenges for himself in how to shoot it. It's not the kind of environment he usually works in. You're dealing with an environment

that is largely pitch black in reality. Yes. Right? I mean, how do you light this? How do you shoot this? David, do you have any insight into this? It was a nightmare to make this movie. Well, I'm sure.

Watching this, I felt like... Not a nightmare to write, loved writing it, loved thinking about it, but he said it was... He said it was the fastest he ever wrote a script. That is true. And he said the signs had been the fastest before that. Even though both films have dark elements, both had me laughing every day as I sat down to write them.

That was one of his fun facts. Devilish. But I think he's, you know, look, the thing, you know, he strips as much budget out of his movies now as he can. Right? He's trying to make them cheaply so that, that's his whole process. I think you're about to answer my question.

Yeah. Okay. What's your question? No, you go ahead. I want to, yeah. But he said just the logistics of this, and he's always doing a new challenge, right? With old, it was the, you're shooting on the beach,

or you know, like there's always new. And the beach makes you old. And I think the other nightmare with old is it's like, characters age, right? With old, it was the, you're shooting on the beach or what, you know, like there's always new and the beach makes you old. And I think the other nightmare with old is it's like characters age, you have different actors, so you're swapping people in and out all the time. And it was a deep pandemic shoe. COVID right. He was in a bubble. Um, but the, with this, it's just like you're in an arena.

That's, that's the set for half the movie. Most thrillers are about enclosed spaces that are pretty tight Yes, and you have that you need the concert going on in the background for scenes, right? You're not gonna dub that in later or whatever and I think that was just a huge fucking pain This is my question is I'm watching this the first time and the first thing I clock is like, those don't look like CGI crowds to me. No, no, no, it's a- I'm so used to that has become the deregur thing, especially post pandemic.

They got used to it. You watch any fucking episode of Ted Lasso, you're like, there was no one in the stands. The CG on Ted Lasso is great. I don't know what you're talking about. The crowd is filled with- Because Brett Goldstein is a CG character, right? Yes, yeah, he's not real.

But I'm watching this, and for a movie that I know had a pretty tight budget, I'm like every time, and I'm sure they were very strategic about, you're shooting just this part, the crowd is only filled in that sliver, but still, it's deep shots where you're looking back, back, back, back behind.

But I think that was all really annoying. Those are all fucking people, but he did it. Yeah, it's probably, it's why, yes, he did not shoot in Philadelphia. Marie, I'm sorry to tell you. No, I immediately clocked that it was not Philadelphia. And I assume it was because this place they used was, you know, gettable and affordable and all that.

They shot the film in Toronto, correct? Yes, entirely. To the point of he knows this is funny, he is trying to be funny, a thing that people will fight about with M. Night Shyamalan movies forever. Most of the local hires in this film are people from the Toronto comedy scene.

Sure. I have several very close friends who are comedians in Toronto, and like the woman, Vanessa Smythe, who plays like the stage manager, who's like helping them so much, who I think is excellent in the film. She is.

Someone I've known for like 15 years. She feels really real've known for like 15 years tell us that you knew her my mind was kind of blown that she was in it they might have told me at some point but I was like that's like my my like friends friend who they did like high school plays with and college plays with and who like did improv and shit same with the fucking merch stand guy the Yeah, but also Toronto comedy guy. Like all these Toronto comedy people. That guy fucking rocks. I follow are posting with pride of like so cool

to see our friend in an M.I. Shyamalan movie. And that extends to basically all the roles of that size. Is the daughter Canadian? The girl from the comedy scene. No, she's I think Australian. Yes, Ariel Donahue. I thought she was good. She's great, she is good.

I thought she was very grounded. She's a classic Shyamalan kid. In a movie that is very ungrounded. Dude, that's hisue. I thought she was good. She's great. I thought she was very grounded in a movie that is very unbranded. Dude, she rocks. That's his thing. It's like the kid is always the most centered one. Even when the kid is haunted or a problem, the kids are always the one who have their like feet on the ground.

I, you know, I talked to Sean Millon the first time. I haven't seen, you know, the movie's nowhere close to done the first time I hang out with him. I talked to Hartnett, who was given the wrong phone number for me, and apparently called that phone number like 40 times before someone was finally like, it's actually this.

Can you imagine getting a call from Josh Hartnett? I have been harassing someone. No. He's like, they've gotten so many phone calls from me. That's insane. And Hartnett was like, and I got so mad at you. Like you weren't answering. Yes. Anyway, and- This guy's blowing me off. And I and he and Hartnett was like and I got so mad at you like you weren't answered. Yes

Anyway, and this guy's blowing me off, you know Hartnett is like I'm like asking questions and he's like you haven't seen the ending right? You haven't seen the whole movie right and I'm like while he had only showed you the first act Right that was what was locked. Yeah, and I was like no and he was like, well, I don't want to spoil it for you I don't want him, you know, I don't want to fuck with your viewing experience and all that and I'm like, okay but then in my back of my mind, I'm like, it better not be that the kid knows about all this. Because that just felt like the most obvious disappointing twist.

And the only reason it's even occurring to me is it's like, is there going to be a big reversal? It's the way Shyamalan has fucked himself and continues to have to struggle to live within the expectations of how people watch his movies. I agree. You're always on edge going is he gonna do some shit? He does have the advantage that you're on edge in a way of like what what is it gonna be though right? His greatest power and his greatest weakness at the same time. And so I was really happy once I finally saw the movie that's like no the daughter doesn't know about it. He thinks her dad is being weird and this revelation is devastating to her and it's played quite naturally

Ben what's up great, you know going online without Express VPN I like to say it's like not closing the door when you use the bathroom and this is something I know a lot about Sure. See the issue is that even if you think you have nothing to hide Why give random creeps a chance to invade your privacy? Yeah, this is a really great point. I'm asking you for an answer. There is no good answer, Ben.

Trick question. There's no reason you should ever do that. I've invoked this many times before. My father used to every morning announce Papa executive privilege time. Of course. He invoked that every morning and said I'm going into the bathroom with four cups of coffee and five newspaper and the door is locked and you're not allowed to talk to me for 45 minutes. And that's kind of what ExpressVPN does. And I'm sure they would love to know

that you've associated them with that. It just gives you this bubble of security. All right, but why don't we just say why everyone needs a VPN? Well, let's talk about it because all your traffic flows through Servers right internet service providers including mobile network providers know every single Website you visit and in the US the United States of America ISPs are legally allowed to sell that information to advertisers. I would say that's no good very bad. Don't do it That's kind of like if I knew every article my dad was reading during Papa executive privilege time. He has that privacy. He can do a crossword puzzle, he can read the funny pages, he can go straight

to the arts section, focus on the front page. I don't have to know and I can never sell that information to anyone else. The thing is ExpressVPN reroutes 100% of your traffic through secure encrypted servers so your ISP can't see your browsing history. Okay, this is why ExpressVPN is the best VPN out there. It hides your IP address, making it extremely difficult for third parties to track your online activity. I wanna hear you make at least three cases for this.

So you've made one make at least two more. All right, fine. I will. It's easy to use. Okay. Fire up the app, click one button, you're protected. Right, almost as easy as just saying, it's pop executive privilege time. No one bother me for the next 45 minutes.

Okay, here's the third thing. Yeah. It's rated number one by top tech reviewers like CNET and The Verge. Right, and pop executive privilege time, of course, was rated number one by the Papa Press, my father's newspaper. He self-published and would bring it to the bathroom with him every morning.

Wow, so not only was he reading in the bathroom, but he was also composing and printing it in the bathroom? No, no, he'd compose it the night before. He'd read it in the morning to make sure it turned out okay. Right. Yeah. Listen, I love ExpressVPN. I use it to stay private all the time.

Look, very often you're in public spaces, right? You want to go somewhere, a cafe, you're in an airport, you're in some hub of transit, some city center, whatever. You want that sweet, sweet free Wi-Fi so you can do some work or watch some videos away from the comfort of your home. But guess what? You're now on the server with everybody and giving them all your information. And that's a time to flip on that ExpressVPN. Yeah, absolutely. You don't wanna get your personal data out there.

You don't want your personal photos out there. No, in the same way my father had to keep that door closed because we also didn't want those smells getting out to the other rooms of the house. And that's why it's porcelain, porcelainly important for me to use ExpressVPN. Also look, it's been the focus of other ads, other times they've covered us on this show or supported us. Incredibly helpful.

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Expressvpn.com slash check. Can we talk about the movie? No, can we talk about Hartnett for a little bit? Hardy Hart. He is phenomenal in this film. I think so good. Our buddy Patrick Williams hosted a Josh Hartnett podcast called Be Hart Hartnett for several years

in his like real fallow period before even Guy Ritchie reclaimed him Yeah, I guess he was on Pete not people Penny dreadful penny dreadful Play aware well This is a real nasty story is that we played my wife watched plenty of play a werewolf because I Watch penny dreadful. I never did play a werewolf because I

Watch penny dreadful because I was like Josh Hartnett. I was not familiar with your game people like well You would be if you watch penny dreadful like okay Billy Piper is in that show and I love her What's his name Rory Rory Kenear I believe plays Rory Kenear I believe plays Frankenstein's Monster. He plays Frankenstein's Monster. I heard that one of the EPs is the devil himself. What? Satan. The most devilish of all. Executive producer, Satan.

The movie ends, I turn to Patrick. Yeah. I go, I mean, you must- Vindicated. Be feeling so good about the fucking stock you bought 10 years ago. And? And he was like, I'm cashing out. The return on investment is unbelievable here.

What's your relationship with Josh Hartnett as a woman my age, Marie? Well, this is the thing... Because I grew up with Josh Hartnett. This is the thing. I was aware of him as a teen people sex symbol. Sure. But I was a little young for a lot of the movies that he was making in his prime. I guess you're younger than me, actually.

Yeah. So you were, and he made R-rated movies. They were either like adult R-rated movies or they were in a genre that was unappealing to me as a young woman. The faculty might be a PG-13. I've seen the faculty and I've seen Virgin Suicides. Yeah, which is until this moment, Virgin Suicides was the one performance where I was like,

well, this is where I get what people were saying. And the faculty was an R. Yeah. Yeah. But again, I saw those movies later and I still haven't seen Pearl Harbor, which a lot of people are shocked by. I've also never seen Pearl Harbor. Wait, whoa. Her not seeing it. I'm surprised you've never seen it. Long time to slap bae on a spreadsheet.

Here's the thing, Pearl Harbor, it was like, oh, everyone loved Titanic, here's another movie that's like Titanic, but okay, you're swapping in Faith Hill for Celine Dion. No thank you. That's when you were out immediately. Right, and then also it's like, okay, Titanic, it's a classic four quadrant, there's when you were out immediately right and then also it's like okay Titanic it it's a classic four quadrant There's stuff for the boys. Yep. There's stuff for the girls. Yeah, but it's not about war correct Pearl Harbor is about war I think well

A few things to say about Pearl Harbor, which apparently I'm the only person who's seen it. There's no way Ben's upper Harbor Cuz Ben's like Pearl Harbor is something they assign papers on. So I won't be going. Ultimate homework movie. The 200 million dollar homework movie. No, the problem with Pearl Harbor is what you're talking about is that the studios are kind of like, we got a Titanic on our hands, baby, because people kiss in this. And it's tragic. Love triangle.

And Pearl Harbor is not about war because it is largely about people hanging out at Pearl Harbor before Pearl Harbor happens. And you're just sitting there looking at your watch being like, isn't Pearl Harbor gonna happen at some point? It's more of just a tragedy. Right. Yeah. And then in the last hour, they tack on tons of action because they're clearly like, you came here for this too.

We have to give it to you. And it feels often a little superfluous. Interesting. The thing about Pearl Harbor, I mean, it's not a successful film. Sure. I haven't seen it a long time The action some of the action is impressive in the Michael Bay way Affleck is so fucking awful in it. It's so like lost That heart in it is really you're like this guy at least is kind of natural and charming and it was a huge deal that they

Were like elevating him that quickly to that level. Yeah. My memory... Well, his first two movies are Halloween H2O where he plays Jamie Lee Curtis' son? Yes, which he's good in. And the faculty. Yeah. Halloween H2O is 45 minutes long and is fairly watchable but not amazing and he's good in it. The faculty rocks him.

That leap up from like like you're a dimension horror like ensemble player to you are one of the three faces on a Michael Bay Memorial Day release was really fast and it was matched with this energy of everyone being like, he is the guy. He is the future. All women love him. Studios are betting on him. In between there was obviously the Virgin Suicide. Which he's incredible on. He's really good in that.

He's doing exactly what the assignment is. Side note, while we're still in this period, just want to acknowledge that he always had weird hair. I also feel like it was, no one quite knew what to do with his hair. Yeah. Like, should we make it long? Should we make it like, you know?

This is his best hair look ever. It's this movie. Oh my God, he's so fucking hot in this movie, and it ends with him fucking just playing with the hair But it's also when he took what we're gonna get to it. We're gonna took his shirt off well for no reason But audience audience I clapped I clapped I was that was the reason my friend. You know what great body Yeah, he's got a great body. He's he's he's a big guy. He's he's you know I get you know annoying Chris Pratt like roided up with my husband He was he was like okay

It's like when you got really excited in the Austin Powers commentary where you're talking about Mike Myers this body and I'm like kind of We have to drop my career He's got a better body. We have to drop Mike Myers as a point of disperse. You're an incredibly smart person with great opinions, but Mike Myers is kind of cut in this. Remains one of the most insane things I've ever heard anyone say. All right, his 2001 is huge.

It's not just- Not just he looks good, he's kind of cut. It's not just Pearl Harbor, it's O, which is this opportunity for him to play against tight. Oh, I heard O is good. I would like to see it. I think it's a very flawed movie, but he's good in it. O is also a movie that's held back for a while because of Columbine.

One of his earliest films he- Is it a school shooting movie? Yes. It's set in high school. So it like sits on a shelf for like two years and changes distributors. I didn't know there's a school shooting in Othello. That's how they turn, that's how they modernize the fucking... Town and Country is one of his first movies ever which he shoots around the same time I'll also come out in 2001 comes out later much delay. So there's like backlog stuff

There's also black hawk down. Yes, which I think he is wonderful in it's a bit of a boring Roll in a way because he's the you know, the good guy as much as that movie can have a good guy I'm movie. I've seen one of the most David movies of all time And so then you know even though Pearl Harbor wasn't well received it is kind of like okay Well, we got a star in our hands this weird thing where like that movie the poster is just him Yeah, it's a big Really Scott movie that got Oscar nominations and was a big hit. Huge hit.

And yet, everyone went to see it and they were like, oh, he's not really the lead in this. I guess he kind of de facto is, but it's not a movie that has a conventional. It's an ensemble. So it was like, oh, this feels like the movie that should make him a star, except you watch it and you're like, well, it's not really designed to make anyone a star. Then he did 40 Days and 40 Nights, which is a pretty boneheaded movie that did okay. Yeah.

Then he did Hollywood Homicide, which is a pretty stupid movie that didn't do very well. That's the one with Harrison Ford. Yeah, this is when I feel like he, as he put it to me and has put it to other people, is starting to be like, what the fuck am I doing? And Hollywood Homicide is the thing that Tarantino always talks about that the studios have now abandoned, which is like the way you launch stars is you put them with established stars. You know, you need your movie that's like, here's an Oscar-winning legend and here's the new guy.

So like the color of money? Yeah, exactly. It's like the perfect version of that, right? And it's like there's a baton pass that makes the audience believe this guy and accept that they're going gonna go for the crown or whatever Or you know sit in the throne except that's the worst version of that movie maybe ever and then around this time There's the story that he's being offered 50 million dollars to do three Superman movies He passes on the Ratner Superman. Yes. Yes the Brett Ratner Superman He as Shyamalan put it to me, he declined the cape.

Yeah. And and it codifies in that moment, people are like, guess he doesn't want to be a movie star. Yeah, because after that, it's just it's Wicker Park, which I've never seen sort of serviceable thriller. Right. You know, it's Sin City. He has the little role, which he's actually got a good. I forgot he was in that. Well, he was the self-funded proof of concept short You know that Robert Rodriguez shot to sell people on here's how the film would look. Oh, yeah, you're right

I it's just like the beginning of the movie. Yeah, and then once he made the rest of the movie He was like, let me show you one final thing with him at the end to tie it back in in 2006 He does like the black dolly and lucky number Slevin which are two movies that don't do well But are I feel like better regarded now He's like lucky numbers. I'm really good in Slevin a movie. That's kind of strange kind of a stupid movie Tell us about you. I mean, that's a major issue But to ground a thing Marie and I being the same age right in 2000 so just to wrap it Yes, 30 days of night that I feel like is his last large-scale movie. Yeah, basically 10 plus years and it's like okay

So he's like headlining September horror releases is this what happened to this guy who we thought was supposed to be the next? X Y or Z right? I was like very befuddled by the whole Josh Hart and a thing across the 2000s that you've just laid out When everyone was like this is the guy I like, I have no strong feelings about him. He seems sturdy and fine. Virgin Suicides is the only one where I was like, huh, he's got some juice in this. The charisma is undeniable.

I also, the heartthrob thing, I was always like, this guy looks like an old man. He looks like an old man in a 20-year-old's body. He's kind of a funny face. As I've gotten older, I know. I never thought that. I just thought this guy looks like he cut his own hair. Like, That was part of it.

Like a shaky hand. But I think in my dumb, straight boy young dude thing, I was just like, this guy has weird teeth and a unibrow and his haircuts are dumb. How can you think he's hot? Hot guys look like, I don't know, Mark McGrath from Sugar Ray. He doesn't have a unibrow.

And his teeth are very attractive. I don't know what you're talking about from Sugar Red? He doesn't have a beard now. And his teeth are very attractive. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm talking about me being a dumb 10-year-old. The only thing that was weird about him was his hair. This is the point of what I'm saying. He had like baby bangs at one point. This is my new McGrager thing all over again. The point is I'm putting myself on the cross here.

That means that I watched this movie and I'm like... You martyr. He's hit his ideal age. I mean, I'm not saying that he's a bad guy. I'm just saying that he's a bad guy. I'm just saying that he's a bad guy. I'm just saying that he's a bad guy. I'm just saying that he's a bad guy.

I'm just saying that he's a bad guy. I'm just saying that he's a bad guy. I'm just saying that he's a bad guy. I'm just saying that he's a bad guy. I'm just saying that he's a bad guy. I'm just saying that he's a bad guy. I'm just saying that he's a bad movie and I'm like you martyr he's hit his ideal age I mean when you saw him in the rich movies and then Oppenheimer you were kind of like dang right yeah often you know and he's like growing into his body and the right like all of it makes total sense to me now and this performance is just like genuinely did not know this guy had it in him. I had been like accepting the narrative of like, we kind of gave this guy a bad run,

you know, and like, he's good in the Richie movies. He's good in Oppenheimer. I'm like, yeah, this is like really, really solid sort of like ensemble work. And then here's a movie carried by him where he is doing an incredibly complicated, very stylized, very bizarre performance, I think incredibly well. Yeah. And this was a thing that like we did talk to to Kat Willems about where I was like, I thought he was a an Abercrombie model turned actor like an Ashton Kutcher type. Sure.

No, he was a trained actor. Minnesota. Who really want who worked at a video store, who was, like, really into films. He does have the classic thing of, he was a football player, and then in the middle of high school, he gets an injury, can't play football anymore, and some nice teacher is like, why don't you try theater?

Right. You know, and then, like, and then he gets so into theater, and as you say, he, like, starts working in a rental store and sees, like, train spotting or 12 Monkeys or whatever, and as you say, he starts working in a rental store and sees like train spotting or 12 monkeys or whatever. And he's like, whoa! There are a lot of guys who have that story where it's like, yeah. Yeah, I think I just assumed he was a dumb dumb,

pretty face boy. No, he's clearly not. And watching this a second time, I was locking in even more to the way he builds the tics of his character, which I think he does incredibly well. There are little things, and I started to really try to lock into, because the first Shyamalan watch of any of his movies,

it's what we're saying, he knows that you're sitting there watching, trying to figure out what he's doing. He is in this very rare position that is similar to, I'm not saying in terms of ability, but you know, legendary status or whatever, but it's similar to Hitchcock and it's part of him putting himself in these movies and the movies being sold as from the mind of M. Night Shyamalan or whatever, where it's like every audience member is going there thinking about what is M. Night trying to

do. There are very few people at that level and for horrors and thrillers genres that are manipulative that are all about the filmmaker trying to fuck with you. Mm-hmm sure. Right the cameos are him always kind of being like it's me. Right. Ain't I a stinker? I hear the guy filming the beach that makes you older you know on the cliff or whatever the fuck it is. The first time you're sitting there watching and trying to figure out what he's doing. Is there gonna be a twist? What would the twist be?

Where is this going? What is the point of this? All this. Second time, you're just sort of watching it and actually trying to take apart the craft of what he's trying to do. And two big things I noticed are almost all of the compositions in this movie

are like 10 degrees off from being perfectly symmetrical. Just a little bit. And especially when most of the conversations that Hartnett has are shot from inside the conversation with him almost doing a Demi sort of Sans the Lambs thing. Right, kind of like head on. But yet the eye lines are just a little bit off. The composition is just a little bit off.

He's always kinda pretending. For a movie, well, and also for a movie about a guy with obsessive compulsive disorder that is trying to place you in his head, there is a sense of unease built from like, why can't she just move like one inch over this way? And once I noticed it, I kept being like, he's actually not breaking this rule.

It is like consistent throughout the entire thing. Once I noticed it, I kept being like, he's actually not breaking this rule. It is consistent throughout the entire thing. Even when within a shot the blocking changes and people move and land on very exact spots, it's never totally fucking right. And it's getting more and more aggravating for him. Correct. And the most kind of like correct any of his compositions get, I would say in this movie, are the couple of times they cut to heart-knit,

really shallow focus all the way in the side of the frame, watching people's response to the violence he's just created. Right, where he's kind of enjoying it. But it's also like, I get to just be a guy now. I'm disappearing into the crowd. This isn't about me, it's about how everyone else is reacting to this thing and outside of that

it's just like and and to get back to the The fucking dialogue question that always comes up with all these movies. I don't get it. His dialogue is so obvious but I Think there are a couple reasons part of it is like it's it's classic genre thriller manipulation You have to get the information out you have to give people the pieces so you can play with them he has a very stylized way of writing dialogue yeah just generally but here's another thing anytime I hear people be like well no one talks like that it feels weird and I'm like yeah like it's putting you in a constant

state of unease it works so well in trap I agree with you for this exact reason you're already in the perspective of a guy who doesn't, who is kind of faking being a normal guy. So it makes sense that everything kind of clangs a little strangely. Not only is he faking being a normal guy, but this is a guy who is perplexed by the way everyone else acts. He has the line later where he's like, when I get the urge, it's because I come across people, and he's like, I don't get it often, But I come across people who think they're whole right and when he's talking to like the mom of the other girl You feel the intensity in those conversations as if you're like Jodie Foster talking to Hannibal Lecter, right? And it's like he's like who is this fucking woman? What is this? How do I have a fucking conversation with her?

but then there is also the not because I'm not calling him my child, I'm on a serial killer. But there is the highly relatable feeling of just like him being like... I actually have a work... It's like he just got a text message from his boss being like, Hey, can you send me an email? And while he's rushing to do that, someone from his family life is like, Hey, our daughters! And he's just like, ah, like, you know, I'm in work mode right now. There is, so I was like starting to try to lock

into the language of his tics and his twitches, right? And there's like a shoulder shake thing he does, and like a one-eyed lid blink, and like little sort of facial convulsions when things like upset him. Right. And I noticed that I think, save until maybe the end with Allison Pille

or some of the stuff with Lady Raven in the living room, the scene where the ticks give him up the most is the long held shot of him watching his daughter brought out on stage to dance with Lady Raven. Or he's on the side of the stage. And he holds on that for a long time. You're seeing part of the screen with the video of what's happening,

but you're not really cutting to her dance, right? And I'm like, is he freaking out because he's worrying that his plan for how to now that they've gotten the backstage pass, escape, won't work? No, the second she settles in and is having fun on stage, all his ticks go away. Right. And it's like that's a really, really telling smart choice as an actor that it's like everything

with the daughter is real. He wants his kid to have a good time. I mean, that's what he says at the end, like it was real. He feels more anxiety over the idea. He's almost surprised at himself, but yeah. Right, that his daughter is going to be embarrassed on stage,. This is going to be a problem for her. And the idea of him fucking his daughter over in order to try to help himself escape... Is stressing him out. Is a greater fear than getting caught.

Right. He wants to get out. Like, it's not like he's not trying to get out any way he can. But you're right. Like, he does want her to have a good time. And he doesn't want her to know that he's a serial killer. There's also this element of... The film is about a guy he's a serial killer. There's also this element of not only does... The film is about a guy who's a serial killer. Right. He is... His name is The Butcher.

There is also this thing where not only does he want her to have a good time, it surpasses good time. It is like the absolute best-case scenario. If you go to a concert, what happens to you? Which is funny to think about this girl having the same best and worst day of her life. Look. He wants her to have a crispy time.

Yeah, he wants her to keep it real crispy. Ben, are you looking at Lady Raven merch? Is there merch out there? Yeah, there is merch, as well as you could pre-order the album on vinyl. Where is this? Is it trapstore.com? It's sleekmusic.myshopify.com.

Oh, okay, I like that, that it's all through, it's a, it's Suleika Store exclusive. Yeah. Right. So, okay, so the premise of Trap, okay, I like that, that it's all through, it's a Salika store exclusive. Right, so okay, so the premise of Trap, yes, is Cooper, a parent to Riley. Two hit movies in this summer with a daughter named Riley, who everyone's worried about, along with Inside Out 2. That's true. Cooper, a parent to Riley,

is taking her to see her favorite songstress, Lady Raven, at the Philadelphia Arena of Entertainment. It has some Japanese name or something. I was wondering if it was a reference to someone. Oh, that's interesting. It probably is. And through happenstance, he notes that there are four billion police officers in fucking riot gear at this concert. And he makes a new pal, his pal Jamie, the vendor of shirts. And I am sorry for not crediting this person.

His name is Jonathan Langdon. One of the respected film critics, I almost want to say, I don't think it was Alison Bulmore, but someone tweeted or wrote in their review, people mocking this character. And they're just like, really. The guy who was basically there. M. Night. He's really fun. Eight minutes in, you're gonna just have him say everything to a stranger.

You know what this is? It's a trap. Right. And they were like, this is fucking M. Night. This is him being like, can I tell you how fucking good the premise of my movie is? And it is really fucking good. I think there is a deeper purpose to this, which is we are seeing how good Cooper is

at winning people over, presenting himself as an ally and friend and as a reliable member of society. And like that is how he can navigate through these spaces with more ease than say, you know, the fucking child catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang could if he was in this arena. Probably most villainous characters. That's like, if he was walking was walking around the cops would be like let's get this guy and Hartnett if everyone's kind of like well you seem like I mean if you walk around they're like what the fuck's up with your nose And I do think that's what's brilliant about Shyamalan casting this guy who has some one put it night put it to me like you know He's was literally a possible Superman and or Batman. Yeah, he supposedly met with Nolan on Batman.

Hartnett has always been like, I was never offered that role. We just like had a conversation. Hurtin was like, I blew it. I liked Nolan. I didn't want to be in a superhero movie. So I kind of was like, I'm not really interested in this. And then I saw Batman begins and I kicked myself. And then I finally got to work with him.

And then like night, obviously, it's just kind of like this guy has darkness to him. And also, as obviously kept repeating how of like this guy has darkness to him and also as obviously kept repeating how drawn he was to just the fact that Hartnett quit Hollywood and moved to London and had a bunch of kids with his wife and lives there happily. Exactly. But I also think there's a third thing he's doing with this character which is like... Directive three? Directive three.

Here's a guy who's like represents our obsession with like fucking true crime culture. If you're like, why would this guy give this all up to a stranger? It's like, cause for him, this is entertaining. Yeah, it's exciting. It's kind of delightful. Right. Wait, did you guys know that it's inspired by a real thing?

This is a real thing that happened, right? Like someone did basically a sting off at a concert. It wasn't like for one serial killer, it was a football game where they rounded up a bunch of people with outstanding warrants. A fake event. It's like, right, it's like, I feel like there are joke versions of that, right?

Like people showing up like, hey, is this the free speedboat convention? Like, where's my speedboat? Such a funny line. I clocked the second time at the beginning, that might even be ADR where they're walking into the arena and Hartnett goes Yeah, I'm so glad they added the second afternoon concert after the first one sold out And you're like, yeah, everything about this concert seems kind of fake and weird a little off

Yes, but the thing of I think Shyamalan interrogating to some degree I don't think he's like self castigating, but interrogating, like, why do I like making horror movies? Why do I like making people uncomfortable? And it's like, here's the response, it's a guy like this who's like, I fucking love this murderer, I watch all of his shit. I read about him, can I share facts with you? I got some photos if you wanna see of his latest.

Hey, I would have been fucking obsessed with The Butcher. Yeah. Okay, if you're obsessed with the butcher in a true crime-y way and you work at a stadium and then they're at an arena and then they tell you like, hey, you wanna pull a shift at the trap of the butcher? Would you be into it or would you be scared? A million percent.

You'd be this character. Yes. What's the secret password that you say? Hamilton. Hamilton. Hamilton. I just feel, where people are like, how serious should I take Amrachan? I'm like, he cast Kid Cudi as an angry, like,

musician called The Thinker, right? With long blonde hair, who demands specific, like, he is having fun. Won't stop eye fucking Josh Hart. I mean, another scene where people burst into applause at our fucking theater. Obviously, as many people have figured out, he cast Hayley Mills because this is a movie

about trapping a parent. Ben. What? Did you recognize who the, like, sort of criminal psychologist was, or whatever the sort of old British woman... The profiler. The profiler.

That is Hayley Mills, the, like, original, kind of one of the original Disney stars, who was the actress who played the twins in the parent trap the original yes so I Not worked much of late I go up to Griffin after the movie and I'm like, it's so funny You know Hayley Mills cuz it's they're having a trap a parent. Yeah Being like why did he cast her? Fennacy did the math on their big picture episode and said,

he thinks this is the first American studio film she has been in in 60 years. That sounds plausible. She's done TV, she's done a lot of stuff in England. Right, she's done some English stuff. But it is an odd choice until you're just like, he thought it was funny to hire the girl from the parent trap to make a movie called trap where she has to trap.

He would never say that explicitly because I think you wouldn't want to be rude because she's honestly great in the film. She has been in a lot of like very weird horror movie. Like, isn't the Twisted Nerve is one that she's in? That's an old one. Yeah, yeah. That's a very that's a very controversial, but fun, cool movie. Roy Bolting movie. But that's a British movie. But yeah, obviously, like that's where the idea comes from.

I mean, so when I first, when he first shows me just the first chunk of the movie in his little screening room, not his big screening room in his house, his editing screening room, basically, the credits are done and they're real. And I'm like, Heartnet, Donna Hugh, sure, that's the girl, Shama-Lan, Suleyko Night, Shama-Lan, cool.

And then it says Haley Mills, and I'm like, is it a different Hayley Mills? And I didn't make the parent trap connection in my head or anything. And that was the one, I was just like, Hayley Mills? Initially, I thought she might be playing his mom. Same. But obviously that's kind of almost a non-speaking role,

the visions of his mother. She only talks like one time at the end there. I also think, and I wasn't watching this Obviously that's kind of almost a non-speaking role, the visions of his mother. She only talks like one time at the end there. I also think, and I wasn't watching this with enough discipline to like make sure this 100% checks out. I was trying. I think Healy Mills, maybe you don't see her speaking on camera

until the Allison Pills scene. I think it's almost always, you're seeing him see her or he's hearing her. Or you're seeing her from behind as she talks to people. I think she talks almost always you're seeing him see her well you see he's hearing hearing her You're seeing her from behind as she talks to people I don't think that's true. I Know the movie twice. I'm not definitely like around For as much of the movie and we keep kind of clocking that she's around I just kept clocking that her dialogue was often if not always often separated from her visual

Once he has this device if he can hear her in his ear or he can eavesdrop in on conversations or whatever it is. Obviously the other thing that I didn't realize, I go into this movie thinking Salika, yes, is in the film, but she is just performing music on stage and she's really just dressing for this. I did not know she was going to be pulled into the action and kind of be the protagonist for a little chunk of it

Can we talk about this? She has eyes the size of globes. Yes So the camera does love her I will say like, you know, like more than anything else like her looking down the camera I agree. I do not think she is bad in this. No, I don't either. I know I've seen some people saying she's bad in her I don't agree. I don't think she's great It's a huge ass. It is she's fine It is like the whole last act of the movie really has to kind of pin on this performance Which is I would not say the whole last act because she then she goes out and there's 15 more minutes Okay, sure. No, the movie isn't handed back to Hartman. There is 20 minutes, but there's a chunk where you're like shit

We're with Lady Raven. She's driving the action and another thing I think I clocked is when she locks herself in the bathroom with a phone I think that is the first time in the movie. We actually leave heart in its side. Yes Pretty much as far as I can think of yeah, and Ben you were saying like I'm She's taking over the movie. I'm sitting here And I'm watching and wondering when is he gonna switch it like at some point He has to make us turn on the guy and that is the moment she has to fucking be the pivot point Yeah, it's a big ass and there's little shit that I just think it's like

It's almost not even about acting ability and she's obviously not primarily an actress by trade No, I mean not at all, but there is that thing of like I think the songs are like totally work. Sure. I think she's good at performing them on stage. Even the difference of like when she is doing the banter on stage, like there is an energy people have when they are regularly performing for hundreds of thousands of people in the same way that people who are at a certain level of fame just kind of like vibrate and glow. That is hard to act. Mm-hmm. And like some of that aura of like, oh my God, the star persona here

doesn't totally come across. And then you get to scenes that are like very emotionally heightened, where she has to do complicated things and she's fine. There's a version of this where it's like, if he casts a former Disney Channel star, who's able to handle the dramatic stuff at the end, does it like

heighten the movie if they can like really nail some of those scenes more? On the other hand, from our fucking perspective, who we are in this podcast and the level of movie dorks we are, this movie is 80,000 times more interesting with it being her. Oh my god. It makes it the most fascinating text. She gives a speech about how she wrote a song about forgiving her father. Yes. Speech about how she wrote a song about forgiving her father. Yes, and right. And a moment then when she says,

and if you have been able to let go of a similar sort of resentment in your life, hold up your phone, and Hartnett looks at his daughter doing that and is perplexed. Uh-huh. It is the other moment in the movie where he maybe looks the most terrified. Look, his primary thing when I say, like,

I'm not shuffling. Like, you know, why, Philadelphia, why have you ever stayed here? But he's like, I'm not sure. Like, you know, why Philadelphia? Why have you ever stayed here? But he's like, I always wanted to be home in time for dinner. I always wanted to be with my kids. Yeah. And then I I talked to

Ishana and Salika together. They both hopped on Zoom and they live together as I'm telling you, they both hop on Zoom and the first Salika was there for a bit and she's joining with me and then Ishana joins and Selika's like, Ishana, are you at home? And Ishana's like, yeah, where are you?

And she's like, I'm at home too, we're both home. Wait, their house is so big. Oh my God. But they were also kind of like, oh great, now we can hang out. There was a cuteness to it. Yes, there was an also like, we grew up in a gigantic house, but there was just sort of like,

it's, it's, I think they do. But there's a sweet, Esther did a piece on the, on the Shyamalan girls, which you can read Esther Zuckerman. The great Esther Zuckerman. Look, it sounds like he was an intense parent in some ways.

Like the thing, I think Salika told me of like, if you're going to watch the little mermaid when you're like six years old, he's like, we're turning the lights off. Sure. You're sitting still, we're finishing the film. We're gonna analyze this from a viewpoint of story construction.

We're gonna talk about it afterwards. We're not like flipping through cable and like, oh, Little Mermaid is on. It's like, no, no, no, this is a serious art form. Well, also so much of Shyamalan's identity is like, I am like the child of like immigrants who like put me into a Catholic school despite not being Catholic because it was the private school with only Hindu boy at his best education.

Yes. And they were like doctor or lawyer. You get to you have the freedom to choose between the two options. And he locks into the idea of being a filmmaker very resolutely at a very young age and has to be so headstrong to push past their expectations and disappointment, which is- He says they were very baffled by it. How you get to Sixth Sense by 29. Yes. You know, and it's like, that's carried on to him in an interesting way with three daughters who are creative, who he's clearly supported as much as anyone

could support their daughters. But he's been- But there's an intensity, I think. I think he would be the first to admit that he, yes, he's had that sort of like, the arts are important and they matter to me very much and they must matter to you too. So yes, you'll be learning the piano at a young age, you'll be watching movies, we'll be discussing art. As if it is trying to put them on the pipeline to be a doctor or a lawyer. They are all interested in the arts. Yes.

And he is incredibly proud of them and talks about them all the time and every single like I talked to Josh Hartnett, I talk to Bryce Howard about which which was a blast. You know, I talked to Mike DeLuca, you know, at Warner Brothers and they're always just like immediately like aren't his kids great? Like have you met his kids? You know, like, it's clear that they are not they're always around. Yeah. And the way Bryce put it was like they were on set always, you know, like it's a family thing. Like, honestly, when he called me to talk about the village, I thought he was calling me to ask about what's it like to be a director raising a kid. Like you grew up on sets. Yeah.

What should you know? He I think I Bryce was just like, I thought he wanted advice. I didn't think he wanted me to be in a movie while she'd never been in a movie. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I want them to work together again. I do, too. I mean, for sure. She said she would. Yeah.

I mean, they've done two movies together, obviously. It would. I think it would benefit both of them without being rude. I think it would be so cool for them to do a movie together, Bryce and I, and for it to rock. That would be so cool. Yes. As much as I enjoy multiple performances given,

she's never been better than she was in the village. Like when you saw her in the village, you were like, this is one of the major new stars. I haven't seen it, but is she good in Manderley? That's an impossible question. She's totally good given especially that situation must have been really overwhelming for a really young new actor.

It's like you're replacing Nicole Kidman on Lars von Trier's set and he's, and it's a Dogville set, but this time he's tackling race in America. I just can't fathom. She's good in it. It's a really, yeah, I don't know, man. That question is like asking, is Steve-O good at hammering a board into his forehead?

With like a rusty nail, you're like, in the sense that he can take it. Yeah, you know, he survives survive, right? Survives. Bryce Howard was a delight to talk to. I talked to her in this very office because it was right after a pile on a zoom on a zoom.

Oh, I thought you invited her here on your fucking Mets podcast. I was going to be so angry. And, you know, she was really, really, really nice. Like, of, everyone I talked to was obviously very lovely and cordial, but she had genuine kind of like, I can talk all day. Like, this is fun. He's great.

And that kind of enthusiasm is amazing. But I wonder if I've been like, great, let's keep talking. Like, let's talk about Spider-Man. And then I'll be like, mandrelay, fond memories. Go ahead. Like, I wonder if I could have stopped her in her tracks with mandrel a maybe that's the one where she's like oh I don't know if I want to talk about man never got to make the third one

that must have driven her crazy Washington right was the name of the final maybe he should make it oh he's he's he's suffering from like medical I thought someone said he was like he had Parkinson's and he's not gonna direct again and then someone else was like no he's fine he is making another movie I don't know I'm I think yeah he said like I I'm gonna take a break but I can work with the symptoms okay so maybe he'll make another move a lot of that going around these days unfortunately but yes his relationship to ship to his children is clearly very close.

But this does kind of, yes, it feels like the confession of someone being like, I've always had my other self, and like, how do I reconcile these things? Not to keep quoting Big Picture, which I obviously listen to rapidly, but Sean interviewed the In a Violent Nature guy. Yeah, sure. And Fennacy had a... Mr. Scary is Nature guy. Yeah, sure. And Fennesey had a... Mr. Scary is his name.

Yes, Mr. Scary. What is his name? His name is Chris Nash. Yes. Fennesey, like, kicked off with an incredibly long question that was just about, like, I'm just interested in the psychology of what makes someone want to make a film this nasty. You seem like a well-adjusted guy. What is it in terms of

like being able to like release some part of your like psyche? Like is this processing something that scares you? Is it something deep inside of you? Because I think about this a lot as someone who watches these movies and I don't feel violent, but why do I love watching insane violence and why have I loved it since I was a child? And the guy just responded like, I really try to not interrogate that. And he wasn't being cagey, and he was just like, honestly, Sean, he was like, with all due respect, if I try to like pull apart that ball, I'm never gonna be able to like put myself back together.

I don't think about it. Which I think is true of a lot of filmmakers, where you'll see them being interviewed and someone will pose a question and they'll be like, oh, that does make sense. I never thought about it that way. filmmakers where you you'll see them being interviewed and someone will pose a question and they'll be like oh That does make sense. Yes. I never thought about it that way. You've realized something that I was unconsciously This movie is Shamelon thinking about it I don't think he's thinking about with a sense of guilt of like why am I a monster? No, because primarily his feeling is certainly I want to entertain people. It's not right like

What is this compulsion my chest open you scare people What she's doing in a way that is not malicious, but it is a weird impulse to have you know The fair point that be a little stinker and how does that coexist with me? Just like caring more than anything about protecting my daughters right Ben. Did you like trap? I feel like we haven't heard from Ben actually. Can you repeat your line you said when we were in the lobby? You said it was Trappadoo. Trappadoo doopity doop. Five traps out of traps.

The trappiest movie of the year. You said something afterwards. I mean, I'll say it if you don't remember that I thought was very good. You said what I love about that is that feels like the kind of movie I would have seen five times on TNT. Yeah. And no one else makes that anymore.

Yeah. It was just an fun, entertaining movie that I didn't have to like think really hard about. Right. But that's what we'll be doing for you. Right. Is thinking way too hard about this fun, entertaining and making people angry. We were talking yesterday with a friend of ours before we went to see it. And he was like, the struggle with it is the thing I respect is he was aiming for three. And he nailed a three star movie versus like some of the shit like old and knock at the cabin that he's done recently even glass where it's like he's trying weird shit and some of it works more

than others. Glass is I think by far his riskiest biggest swing which he got to make because Split had been so huge and he has big actors and all that. Glass is a borderline antagonistic movie. Yes, whereas like as he told me like he was like look my sweet spot is hour 45, right? I really concentrate on that. Glass is two hours ten. Glass kind of breaks a lot of his rules I feel like. Which is fine. Glass is fascinating.

Yes. I'm happy it exists. I love that it exists. And it did make money, but it probably pissed people off the most of his recent stuff. It's another hit that made people furious. Yeah. Yeah.

And I don't think he'll be doing anything that ambitious again. Like he seems to be more back in the right script down genre stuff. Do you know what's up next for him? He says he has his next four movies planned. Four? My fucking god.

We're gonna keep doing this podcast for a long ass time, aren't we? It's basically like 18 months like clockwork and new things. The way he puts it to me is like, he can't think too much about the next projects while he's working or he's writing because he like, you know, he'll get distracted.

So he writes, he writes, he writes. And then the next thing starts bubbling up and he'll have a notebook. But writes, he writes, he writes. And then the next thing starts bubbling up and he'll have a notebook and he, but like he knows what he wants the next few things to be. And they're bubbling away. And then suddenly once this is done, he locks into the next thing and gets going again. And yeah, I assume we'll just,

he's got this deal at Warner Brothers now. So he'll be like, this is my thing and I want to get this person and off they'll go. The deal is once again, he self- finances and warner brothers is committed to negative pickup once the production is done Which is to say they basically function as totally independent self-financed productions that warner brothers has promised They will buy the minute it stops being an independent production and like I talked to michael deluca Which was kind of a cool movie nerd moment for me. Just like, this is a guy who fucking made

Boogie Nights happen and shit. Yeah, and wrote fucking in the mouth of madness. Yes, and has a ton of, you know. Got a blood job on the couch. Well, you know what? Had a party in front of some people. Kind of an notorious story, anyway, go on. That's what I was gonna say,

he's got a lot of Hollywood stories. Yes. And he was truly like, I fucking was, I was at New Line when the sixth sense came up Yeah, and I wanted that script so goddamn bad Like I will never forget reading that spec script like, you know when you got to the end and you were like, oh my god You know and like then Disney got it and I was so upset and I have wanted him ever since like I feel You got out of him in your piece was something like you Read a lot of great spec scripts, but there's only one sixth sense

Yeah, like there was the feeling of like I'm never gonna have this moment again of just being like who the fuck is this? And what is this script and where did this come from? Ben what's up Griff? I am so sick and tired of hearing you talk about your undies. Can I talk about me undies for once? You may. Listen, for most of the year, fancy underwear technology sounds unnecessary. Breathable, quick dry, moisture wicking, anti odor, overkill if you ask me. But then summer hits suddenly steaming beads of sweat

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Meundies, comfort from the outside in. Fellas, don't get caught bat-winging again. One thing I wanna bring up is going back to this whole you find yourself rooting for and identifying with the protagonist. I kinda don't like going to concerts. I don't either. I don't either.

What's about it these days? I was very locked into that part of the movie of like this environment is stressful. I don't like crowds like that. And I'm all like- You like going to the movies. I love going to the movies. That's not 20,000 people.

There's also like, okay, I've only been to two big concerts. Oh, you really have never like- In your life. In my life. What were they? I went to see Robin at Madison Square Garden. That sounds fun.

Dancing with yourself? Yeah, it was a really fun night, had a great time. And I went to see Paul McCartney at MetLife. I was genuinely asking, did you dance with yourself at the Robin concert? No, I danced with like 20,000 other people and then on the subway platform afterwards, dancing, but people put the music on and we all were dancing. It was great.

Seeing Paul McCartney is kind of like that's kind of like a lovely experience because like he goes forever and the crowd is multigenerational. It's not as hyped up. The concert itself was wonderful. Right. And it was like the fucking MetLife stadium. It was a nightmare. It was a fucking wonderful. Right. And it was like... You were at the fucking MetLife Stadium. That's a nightmare.

It was a fucking nightmare. Yeah. We chose to drive there. Well, that was a mistake. Why did we do that? I don't know. For a concert that starts at 7 p.m., which means we tried to leave at 4.45 to beat the traffic getting out of Manhattan on a Friday.

We witnessed an accident happen while getting into the Lincoln Tunnel. Do you know how long it took us to get back to Brooklyn? Four hours. Four fucking hours. David, well done. Going to the MetLife is a crazy thing to do. Getting home from a big concert

is one of the most stressful, leaving a concert is one of the most stressful experiences that I can think of. Before you even shared that story, the analogy I was thinking of is going to a major concert at any venue of size, to me, is very similar to going to the airport. Where I'm like, I know why I'm doing this, there is an ultimate thing here that I think is worth the effort, but, am I stressed about getting there, getting in, making my way around, getting out. Getting in is one thing. If it's getting out, nightmare.

And I'm just like- If it's at like the Barclays Center and it's like, okay, I'll take the subway, I'll be in a long line, sure, but it won't be so bad. If it's in like MetLife, which to be clear to you, in listeners, it's in New Jersey, it's not even on it. I don't know how the fuck we're gonna do the World Cup. Well, what do you mean we are gonna do it? We don't know how the fuck we're gonna do the World Cup

What do you mean? We are gonna do it. We don't have to we don't have to go David We didn't tell you we actually is blank check hosting the world We are now in they made us a really good offer by the way We have a hell of a loan to pay off You've missed a lot of stuff. Okay, Ben. What's what's be pro concert? I feel like you were tearing your hair out listen to us wine Okay, first of all you brought up Barclays you go to sporting events. Those are big Events with a lot of people with hooligans true. I do hooliganism You can kind of get in and outigans true. I do hooliganism

Get in and out pretty quick and I Barton. There are no real fans who go to the Barclays Center Well, hey, actually, let me can I real fans of Avatar and we went to see two rocks the first one I didn't do that. I wasn't there for that. Sadly. No, only ten other people I go to and we went to a nets game the three of us which was a little more the experience I have a lot of nets games where you're like, oh, people are just sort of here to have a good time. They don't really care. I went to a Liberty game recently. Oh, was that crazy?

They got that elephant who twerks. She, Ellie is the coolest. Ellie, the mascot of the New York Liberty. David was blowing up the fucking blanks-o-text thread with shit about Ellie. Dude, Ellie rocks. She does this dance where she comes out, Griff, you would love this, and she's got the dancers around her, and she's an elephant. Dude, Ellie rocks. She does this dance where she comes out, Griff, you would love this,

and she's got the dancers around her, and she's an elephant. No, she's sun picks. Where she stamps her feet, and then everyone falls down, like she's rocked, you know, because she's so big. And does everyone go along with it? Yeah. It rocks. She's so cool.

But no, I went to Liberty Game, and just generally, I was like, I don't think I've ever seen the Barclays Center this hyped. Like, people like screaming for this wanna go to a Liberty game. Screaming for this team who are really good. Does Ellie like Twin Peaks The Return? Yeah. Maybe get her on one of those episodes?

Yeah, no, cuz normally like Nets fans, there are no real Brooklyn Nets fans. Cripp, you would love Ellie. She's doing bits. She has two handlers or you know people with her and when like they were mad about a foul call She started doing this thing where she was pretending to faint and they were like fanning her with like a big handkerchief It was so funny. I was fucking great. Tell me what she has a one-hour special I don't to watch fucking basketball to get to the Ellie bits Wow Texas Griffin hates women's sports. You know to see women succeed. I noticed I just said basketball Okay, Ellie's got some moves

I notice I just said basketball. Okay. Ellie's got some moves I'm watching some footage my brother James. He had a fucking space jam CD-ROM that was similar to like NBA Jam or whatever Right like a video game. It was a CD-ROM game. It was played on the computer we did not have a console in the home and I was like space jam video game great looney tunes and then you watch it and the game is mostly you just playing Basketball as the looney tunes how the game is mostly you just playing basketball as the Looney Tunes. How dare a Space Jam game involve playing basketball? But then if you play it during the halftime intermission, there were mini games where it's like,

Daffy's gotta get the water bottle with Michael's special stuff in it. So that's your time to shine. The way you're describing Ellie feels like that. Like I just wake up and you're like, hey! And I'd be like, okay, let me sit down now. Do you know, I feel like I think I think I maybe like Trap

more than you because it grew from you. I don't give movie star ratings on Letterbox anymore because I don't want people to get mad at me. Yeah, but I would have given it three and a half stars and a heart, which I think in a way is like more, you know, it's about pure pleasure for me. That is exactly where I am right now. I've turned heart or no heart into a binary, do I like it?

It's no longer like I need to love it or it needs to be great. And I basically give nothing a star rating because, and I saw this happen when you fuckin' logged Meet Joe Black, right? And I saw a bunch of people going like, wait, he put Meet Joe Black half a star higher than this? He put it only half a star below this?

And it's like- I love it when people do that. It makes me really happy. But I'm like, any star rating I could give to Trapp then becomes this thing that is always the M. Night argument of like, how can you forgive all of his sloppiness when other directors you would rake them over the coals for doing the same thing. I agree. David's throwing up a middle finger. Fuck you. And I'm like I can do whatever I want. Movies are judged on

different terms relative to what they're trying to do. My favorite thing though is people obsessing over my star ratings. Glad you love it. Because they'll be like, but I don't understand. He gave this three and a half stars. But if you search in his archive, he gave this. I'm just like, relax. Yeah. I'm having fun. Yeah.

I'm having a good time. I think I would have gone up to four, four and a half stars if Lady Raven was Ellie the Elephant. You know this Ellie the Elephant concert we're all at? It's actually a big trap. So the plot of trap. Wait yeah, I gotta also answer your question. That's a very good point. Oh yeah, about concerts.

Defending concerts. Yeah, yeah, sorry, yes. I've aged out, I would say, at this point of going to like festivals. Oh God, yes. But just to use the festival as an example. Festival I would never do. I would never do.

I did that when I was a teenager. I was- And did you ever, do you go to the Warped Tour never do. I did that for a teenager. And did you ever, do you go to the Warped Tour? Yeah. Osfest? Not Osfest. Okay. Bonnaroo a bunch of times.

I went to Glastonbury, I went to the British ones. Oh cool. I don't like all the mud. No, it's not a good mud. It's the whole thing, it's the whole thing about mud. It's porta potties, and if the porta potties by like day three

are really gnarly, and everyone's sitting in the woods, it's not good. I do like about large concerts is that they are inside. There's a bathroom there. But here's the thing. I got to see Beck then Radiohead. Yeah, no, it was. Yeah, it was a cool show. Right. Just see.

I got to see Mars Volta. I got to see so much incredible stuff. Hey. It's just in just three days, so much incredible stuff. Hey. All right. It's just, in just three days, so many incredible bands and artists. It's just, and yes, it's gross and there's people everywhere, but it's worth it if you really love seeing live music. I think I had the stamina for that stuff as a teen

and I went to lots of shows and right, there's just some point I hit that I think a lot of people hit in their twenties where you're kind of like, I don't really like the experience of getting there. I hate standing, I don't like people. And yes, occasionally, I'm just a butcher. I just want to check my murder app.

I gotta go to the bathroom to check my murder app. Can I check my fucking murder app? It's so hard to get to the bathroom to open your murder app. Can I tell you guys something really gross? I thought when we see him in the toilet stall, I thought he was gonna start jerking off. That would have been the kind of thing that if M. Night Shyamalan did that, I would have been flabbergasted.

That is not his kind of material. He's not a sexual filmmaker. I mean, this is the thing that does not to get all like red letter media, but about like serial killers and movies. The fact that it was like a man in the basement doesn't ring true to me. Really? Oh, this didn't strike me as a sex thing. This is a control thing. He is happiest when he folds that napkin right.

And when he looks at the guy in there, he's like, yeah, good. Who are serial killers, who are heterosexual serial killers who kill men? I mean, it sounds like you're more of an expert in this field than I am. No. Wait, what?

You're kind of, you're raising some interesting points. Think about it. No, I can't think about it because I don't care about serial killers. Well, this is why I am the merch guy. Yep. I just don't care, man. I mean, like, you're saying like you're sort of,

you're Domers, you're Gacy's, you're Bundys, they killed men, but there was a sexual element to it. care, man. But you're saying your Domers, your Gacy's, your Bundys, they killed men, but there was a sexual element to it. Sure, okay, I'm just trying to think of a... Your point is that there is often a sexually charged element with serial killers who kill at scale. But isn't it one of those things that when then you Google, Jesus, this wonderful Wikipedia article that I'm seeing was written by Marie Barty,

uh, called List of Serial Killers by Number of Victims, and then you're seeing this written by Marie Barty. Called list of serial killers by number of victims. And then you're seeing this long list of names that you don't recognize. And then once in a while you're like, oh, like the BTK guy, I know him, right? But like largely it's other shit. BTK mostly killed women, but he did kill, you know, like Zodiac, there are like guys are collateral damage,

but there is a psychosexual element that, I'm just saying if Brian De Palma had made this movie, that would have been there. And because M. Night Shyamalan made it, this was a movie about how much he loves his daughter. Look, this movie is getting a lot of Brian De Palma comparisons. Sure. Snake Eyes, I think is an obvious one.

Yeah. Which is a fine comparison for critics to make. I'm not sure it's one that Shyamalan would be that interested by. No. They're just different guys working in some sort of similar fields. I will say, when I talked to Josh Hartnett,

he said that he had a very specific serial killer in mind for his performance, but he would not tell me who, because he didn't want to spoil the movie for me. Interesting. Now my guess was possibly BTK in terms of like, the family man, right? Who once they show up one day, he's like, ah, well, I see you found me.

Like, okay, I must have done something wrong finally. But like, and his family are like, what? You know, like, well, no, he was really awful to them. But, you know, still surprised. But I don't know if that was the case. But he said that he and Knight kind of fought over the direct inspiration. Interesting. And came to sort of an Knight kind of fought over the direct inspiration. Interesting.

And came to sort of an understanding of what this guy's deal was. I'm not saying that all of the third act Shyamalan movies are going to have a similar level of like reclamation as full board classics, but we've already brought up both Carpenter and De Palma, whose 80s were very similar in a certain way, where they made a lot of movies, many of them successful, some of them unsuccessful, but like you read, and we did this with Carpenter, you read the critics at the time,

and they were like kind of flummoxed. There was this feeling of like Halloween being his sixth sense and people being like, why can't you go back to this? Why are you making trash? These movies are silly. These performances are overcracked. The plots are outlandish. I mean, listen to our episodes.

We're right. It's like he was never greeted with open arms by critics like when his movies came out. And then like through people watching the movies five times on TNT, you start to get onto the wavelength of like, this is his deliberate world he's building. This is what he likes to play in. And as you said, like my pushback on Carpenter as a comparison point for like choosing to go from high brow to low brow is that like,

Sean Laughlin makes this movie that on paper, Sixth Sense is not an obvious best picture candidate. It comes out in August. It's a huge hit. No, certainly not, of course. It basically kickstarts this wave that we've talked about with ARP. Like we were like trying to pin down like, best picture candidate. It comes out in August. No, certainly not. It's a huge hit. Of course. It basically kickstarts this wave that we've talked about with ARP.

We were trying to pin down, what is this wave of 2000s big budget, prestige, supernatural. Like the others. Yeah, and what lies beneath, and big movie stars, where suddenly horror wasn't beneath these filmmakers, but only within a certain strip.

It was this kind of like haunted relationship kind of thing that people suddenly were willing to make that were taken seriously by Oscars or making crazy amounts of money or whatever it is and Then like that sort of runs its course at the same time that people get tired of the fucking Shyamalan thing Yeah, the village obviously is when people get tired of it. That movie still does well, but that's when people turned on him. But that is the movie where he's clearly like, I'm trying to elevate this to high art.

This film is very kind of precious in its construction and style. But what is the dominant genre, sub-genre at the time? Is it torture porn and then found footage? I would say that stuff is just starting up when the village... Because the village is 04 and Saw is 04, right? You know, it's sort of like you're almost seeing, like, you know, Shyamalan's business go down. And then the other stuff goes up.

He makes it happen four years later, and that's almost a response to, like, I need to make an R-rated movie. Right. I mean, I feel like in the village, it's still... It is... Well, that's a great question, actually. Like, horror movies of the early 2000s. But I think there's this big thing, and so much of the legacy of Shyamalan

is the like Time Magazine cover, him getting tagged with this like, he's the next Spielberg. What was it like J-Harr coming up and like Slashers are kind of going down again? There is this strategic decision when he makes the visit of like, I'm just making a fun little nasty movie.

And even a thing we talked about on our happening episode was when he was promoting the happening, he was like, look, my goal was to make the greatest B movie of all time and I did it. Like there was an arrogance to him sort of presenting it as, I'm trying to make a movie that's trashy but I'm making it for $80 million.

I think we talk about that on that episode too, cause that's sort of, it's like the George Lucas thing where they're like, well, I don't care if you didn't like it cause it's not meant for you. You know, it's meant to be fun, it's meant to be silly. It's meant to be for kids. It's meant to be a B movie. It's like he made the strategic pivot of like, I'm choosing to recalibrate the way people think of me. I'm going to continue to stay in this sort of silo and pitch movies that come out like, you know, like Carpenter was always unpretentious about how he viewed his career and

didn't want to go chasing the obvious kind of like, you know He's throwing so many strays at like Cronenberg like, you know chasing after some sense of like art highfalutin He's just like I just like making genre movies He actually just likes playing halo and fucking sure smoking blunts But but he never had the moment that Shyamalan did where people are like, are you the greatest storyteller in Hollywood right now? But here's the other difference now Shy, Shyamalan is like, well, what I want to do is make original, non-IP grounded, sort of somewhat star driven, but not crazily, genre films largely presented kind of for adults with more,

with like a big premise. And Hollywood's like, that's interesting. Did we used to make those? Did we ever offer those to audiences? And the audience is just like, yes, food, please, please give me, give me, give me, you know, like he is now this like savior of cinema just because he's like, yeah, I want to not make superhero movies and have them be in theaters. My dad was like, I guess the Shyamalan movie isn't connecting after the weekend box office. And I was like, he's already basically. He's in. Yeah, that's that's how he put it to me He's like first weekend. I'm in the block. He's made his model in a way where it's like and then the rest of the money You know goes right back to blinding edge, right? Yeah, it's like, you know the range of like

This movie is gonna open somewhere between 17 and 22 and it's like if it opened to 22 people would have been Happier and his camp sure but that movie opening 17 is like fucking We're gonna make its money back Yeah, um what before I mean, I know we've already been going for a while, but I do want to talk about I want to talk about Allison Pell and what I think is a Before we do know let's let's move through trap a little linearly just so we don't miss anything okay, so Obviously right first young in the movie him with Riley in a car getting there, right? He's silly dad Well, what do the kids say now?

Right his kid is it's kind of an amazing performance because you can really tell like she's very sincere about Lainey Raven It's that perfect age thing too, right? Like what is she supposed to be like 12 or whatever of like She's a little shy about her passions, but also very sincere in them, right? And that whatever drama happened in school, or her being excluded on social media or whatever, right? Like, that shit has wounded her so deeply. But we're just, we're moving on.

Like, it's not the end of the world. Blah, blah, blah. The kind of classical, like, the group of girls just decided they don't like you anymore. And then they all post that they're hanging out and she can see it or whatever. So, I feel like the only real thing in the first few minutes is you just note

how meticulous Cooper is with the napkins and the food and concert starts. Cooper gets up from his seat from this couch and what, like 14 times? He's always fucking like, hey, I forgot one more thing, I gotta go again. Left my Visa card with the merch guy. But yeah, and first he goes to the bathroom,

he sees that vision of his mother, but then checks the phone, and then he takes her to the merch stand, and then he learns the butcher thing. It takes a little while. Correct. Right? Yeah, and then I-

He encounters the mom of the other girls. There's drama with Riley and her school friends where they've kind of excluded her. But Riley never comes face to face with those girls. Correct. Yeah. Right. We never see him. Right. Yeah. And there's some moment where he goes like... She's like, I made friends with the girl sitting next to me.

Like, he feels a sense of comfort in that. Yes. Oh, one little moment in this part that we're talking about that I think is so funny is when he pushes the drunk girl down the stairs Twice in this movie. There is a perfectly placed woman close to fainting. Yes We're passing out in some way, right? And it's just like great late the lady Raven concert in the middle of the day Doesn't seem like the kind of concert you get fucked up during One person decided to this is the kind of shit always one person

Especially in a lady Raven, but this is the shit and I'm not gonna like fight back against this where people go like this movie Is bad and you cannot convince me it's not bad because this makes no sense Yeah, but there's one thing in this movie that make no sense, and I don't care. I laugh and I go, huh, funny, okay, so let's get back to the action. Here's another one. There's like a, at some point when the daughter goes out with him

and he's doing the laps, right? And she's like, now's a good time, because it's the intermission. Yeah. And we're like, there's no fucking intermission at concerts. Like what do you-

Maybe there should be. But I also was like- It would be nice. Watching it the second time, I'm like, that line could be like, oh yeah, this is where they let the dancers do the solo and she changes outfits. I'm cool to do a lap now.

Like, you could explain why it's the part she doesn't care about, but to act like it's a Broadway show is so weird. I obviously, my fundamental thing is like, I don't care. I know you need ways to kind of, right, to shift the story around. He's cut this into the bone. He's just trying to get the information across.

Also, hey, maybe he's like me in that he hates concerts, he doesn't go to them, and he's just making it up. Just making it up. But yeah, so the first chunk is him with his daughter, what, Ben, you're mad? No, no, no. I'm sort of signed to myself because I find people that go into watching movies or just any kind of like storytelling

and they're just like, that's not fucking real. That would never fucking happen. It's like, how can you enjoy anything if you go in with that attitude? It's so boring. I find it so boring to be that kind of person. Ben just reading from my manifesto, right? I love this. You're speaking my heart.

It's just, it's like, and I have had people text me, have you seen it yet? It's just ring to your phone. Uh, and I've been like waiting to get back to them because like their take was just basically like, was he playing a fucking joke on us? Like, are you, are you, am I supposed to believe this? I'm like, it's a fucking story.

And it's a silly little movie that's entertaining. There were some tweets that were like, this is the worst movie I've seen all 37 years of my life. And I'm like, interesting. Congrats on seeing your first movie. That is crazy. My response to that. Because there's, you know, there's

the level of craft and pleasure in this film that. It can't all be Harold and the Purple Crayon. Here's a moment I put a pin in earlier, right? Later in the film, not to jump ahead, but there's when we see the footage of him pulling the guy into the van. Yeah. When we saw it opening night,

it got a huge laugh from the audience. There's something kind of comical of the timing. There's a little bit of a like yoink to how quickly the guy disappears. I think it's a deliberate humor there. But there is a, as someone who spent years doing wildly unsuccessful comedy for audiences that often didn't really want to be there in bar basements and such, right? And Ben, I know you can relate to this as well.

At certain points you start to like be able to catalog the different types of laughs that you can feel of like that's the good kind of laugh, that's the bad kind of laugh, that's like the right kind of silence of their paying attention, that's the silence of them being bored. And I'm always feeling that very acutely when I watch Shyamalan movies of like how much does the audience seem to be on his side versus like responding as if they're on their own conversation. Right. And it felt like the tenor of the laugh to that was them being like,

this movie's silly, we're supposed to take this seriously, this is goofy. This assumption that he's trying to do something and failing and I'm laughing and it's not. Well, clearly they weren't paying attention to all of his social media. Yes. Where he said, I was having so much fun writing this. I was giggling to myself, I'm a little stinker. When Ben and I watched it last night, that moment played to dead silence and I found it very eerie.

Yeah, no, it means a lot. It felt actually scary and no one responded to it at all. Now, there were other things people laughed at in a way last night that felt like, you think you're better than the movie. Sure, right. This is a sort of judgmental laugh. You're mainly derisive, right. But I think back to Long Legs,

a film that I think is tremendously good. What if a man had long legs? Oh, wow, I completely disagree with you there. So many do. It has become very divisive and has had a rapid, almost M. Night cycle. So similar to M. Night, just people being like, fuck off with this.

No, unconvincing in every way. Why this, why this? And so much of it is too that that movie had this incredible, very short hypecing in every way. Why this why this and so much of it is too that like that movie had this incredible very short hype cycle in a way there's all this elusive marketing, but then no one really sees it until like Two weeks before it comes out and had just enough time to crest and have the surprise opening weekend has held surprisingly Well, incredibly well, it's making 70 million dollars. It's a long like it Yes Incredibly well, it's making 70 million dollars. It's a long legged hit. More money than Furiosa. Poor Furiosa. Poor Furiosa.

I was talking to a friend of mine who saw long legs and was like, how can you say... Call the cops! I'm sorry. He's no good! Get that guy to jail! A friend of mine who was visited by long legs, who was like, how can you think that's good? The same thing you're saying of like that is objectively bad and his proof was he was like when Nicolas Cage came on screen the audience started laughing and my

response was I think that's a feature not a bug and part of it is and I'm not saying that film is beyond criticism right but like that movie had this hype cycle of those last two weeks of breathless like holy shit is this thing a miracle? Was also coated with people like you, and I know you didn't write the headline that they assigned to your review, was like, is this the scariest shit of all time? There was suddenly this pressure on the movie to be like, is this the most terrifying fucking thing you'll ever see?

And then audiences sat there and then everything in the movie that was kind of weird or goofy or silly started to be like what is this i thought we entered into an agreement that you are going to scare me and m night has always had that thing i would say past unbreakable where people are like our past signs where people are like didn't we have an agreement to how this worked the type of movie you made the way it made us feel We all shook hands and walked away And when you try weird shit like this people don't know where they're like if I'm supposed to be scared Then why are you putting silly shit in here?

I want to give Maria the chance to dis long legs because I know not everybody likes the legs were too long in your opinion could have been longer actually I Think I like movies That where legs are short where legs are short like mine I have short legs sure snow white in the seven to stubby legs you want to be working to stubby legs Also noticing the Balenci's yeah pop off Now people are gonna get mad at me because I'm wearing Balenciaga sneakers to record blank check Well, and then you didn't call up my sneakers

Kirkland signature Shoes of course branded branded and just buy them I bought them because Signature on the fuck that is true Wow Costco sold houses. They got that corporate signature on the fuck. That is true. Wow Okay, so long legs. I like when movies and I think trap does do this even though it has a silly button at the end I think Josh Hartnett at the end is scary. Yeah, I agree So I like movies that are silly and then end scary Long legs is the inverse long legs started scary for me and then ended silly as hell, and that is not the way that I like to experience movies.

But I also watched it. I saw it at a showing where the audience was pin drop silent the entire time, and I walked out and I had a feeling that, I'm sure I've had it since, but the last time I remember feeling this acutely was seeing The Sixth Sense for the the first time where I was like, okay This has momentarily rewired my perception of reality and left me on edge. Marie's dead. I'm dead

I'm not choked Here's what I'm saying people compared it to the fucking silence of the lam Now I know but negatively and now you're like, oh and the last time I felt that way was the first time I saw I'm not saying that Here's what I'm saying this all goes back to Shaumalon right when I go to the bathroom in the middle of the six sense I as and I that point I'm fucking ten right remember going to the bathroom in the middle of the movie Are you checking your serial killer app on your phone? Yeah, of course in the middle of the movie. Were you checking your serial killer app on your phone?

Yeah, of course. Actually, I have to go to the bathroom. And then I was genuinely scared of ghosts. I went to this bathroom and I was like, is the fucking thermostat going to drop? And I walk out of Long Legs and I got an email from my grandmother that was incoherent because she's not good at emailing. But I read it and I suddenly was like, is my grandmother possessed? Like it stayed in the bubble of it.

I think that says more about Brutha than it does about Wong. But I'm saying that sort of bubble. Now, Jordan Peele is this one guy, and I wonder if it is because he has a background in comedy and then made this pivot, where I do feel like audiences accept him doing both. And he has this quote that I've heard recently that I find really interesting,

where he's like, the only difference between comedy and horror is music. It's the same sort of like manipulation of tension, right? And like, demanding a physiological response out of audiences and getting into this very clear like back and forth interplay that tends to play better with a crowd. But so much of it is tone setting and letting them know like, which parts are supposed to scare you and which parts are supposed to scare you and which parts are supposed to make you laugh.

And when those two things aren't delineated, I think audiences get super fucking confused. And you can argue that's proof that a movie doesn't work. You can say it's misread, whatever it is. But I do think that's what so much of this boils down to. And, like, get out... Over time, it has sort of come out that when they shot it, it was intended to be more of a comedy. He was sort of like, Blumhouse wants me to make something that's a little more satirical.

And then as they were in post, they were like, can we commit harder to the horror of this? You feel the Laurel Howardly character who's really good in that movie being a vestige of that film being like like maybe all at that tone He's 100% funny and good in that movie But it's right it's so easy to just lift him out of that movie in a way and he figured out how to balance it and then us and You know nope are doing that intentionally and with control from the outset where it's like you can have a movie have like and with control from the outset, where it's like you can have a movie have like

the monkey scene, which is genuinely terrifying, and also have Steven Young give the Chris Kattan monologue about the same thing, which is hysterical and the audience is like... But unsettling. Yeah, connected to both. Yeah, that scene's very creepy. I don't know.

Sorry, I just think Jordan Peele's better. I agree with you. But I'm like, all of this, it's just being on my mind recently of these lines of like, what level of comedy people allow to coexist in horror movies. And I also think about like the rabid subculture of like horror conventions and stuff, right?

Where the guy who is like the eighth lead in like Friday the 13th, part four, is a superstar at this one hotel ballroom for a weekend. And part of it is like giving a performance that most people would maybe say is bad. Where part of what like these horror fans covet are these like weird line readings. Not even from the icons, you know, the mascots of horror.

No, but you're right. I mean, the thing of like, oh, you did the sleeping bag kill. I love you for that. Yes, yeah. But that though, like, quote, like, not just lines, but inflections of like, oh no, he's coming for me. And you're like, it's that guy. When he was 19, he said that line that way.

And he had a look. What a weird world. You know, and people at the time might have been like, this movie's dumb and stupid and goofy. And then there's some weird power To like that balance of the goofiness with the primal terror that sometimes takes longer to balance out Wouldn't help yourself could you I'm doing nothing I'm sitting here in my chair reclining It's our friend the movie yourself, could ya? I'm doing nothing, I'm sitting here in my chair reclining. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I can't believe you didn't clock that immediately, because it's basically like... It's quite large. 1% bug, 99% notebook in terms of what just flew into... I just thought the bug looked like a magazine, honestly.

A print-only magazine devoted to the art and culture of cinema created, repaired, and published by Mubi. And I hear people are buzzing about it. Yes, they always are. A yearly subscription is going to give you two beautiful issues of the Mubi notebook, and they always come with an exclusive surprise gift. And shipping is free wherever you are. Your least subscription is going to give you two beautiful issues of the movie notebook and they always come with a exclusive surprise gift. And shipping is free wherever you are. Okay. So that's cool. I feel like I got a there was like a postcard set of the dogs of Aki Kurusumaki movies.

Oh, hell yeah. Last year, which was like a nice little I think that's the kind of surprise gift you might be getting. But these are these are lovely volumes. These are handsome volumes. These aren't any sort of floppy rags. This issue, I believe the John Wilson, the great John Wilson, the great how to design the front and back covers.

You've got an expansive essay by Genevieve Yu on intersection, the intersection of racism, regional history, and Hollywood moviemaking and the California foothills. These things are thick. There's some cool things about Yudorovsky's Dune with never before seen illustrations that I was very into. Good stock. They're on good paper.

You can subscribe to the magazine now for 30 pounds a year. What? Pounds? What's going on in this ad copy? Suddenly it's drinking a spot of tea. That's what the B is speaking. for 30 pounds a year. What? Pounds? What's going on in this ad copy? Suddenly it's drinking a spot of tea. 30 pounds and I assume if you're buying from another country. He had a tiny saucer and a tiny teacup. Yeah, that really came across.

You can find out more at moobie.com slash magazine and you can find issue five, which is the current issue in select stores around the world. And yeah, it's got all kinds of cool stuff in it. And, you know, movie, of course, generally it's for lovers of great cinema, it's a great streaming service. Bees like it. Cows like it. The bees and the cows.

And as always, you can try movie for free for 30 days at movie.com slash blank. Jack that's M U B I dot com slash blank. Jack for a month of great cinema for free. I'm kind of remembering why we haven't invited the bee here in a while. It doesn't really pop. Trap. And I can't believe you actually went to the bathroom. I thought you were going to do a bit.

We've been parking for two hours. Yeah, I had to pee. In Trap, the first chunk is him learning. And then the next chunk... The bit hasn't revealed itself. Is we're basically watching Cooper kind of case the joint. He realizes now what's going on. And so he steals a pass to get backstage,

you know, to not get backstage, to get in, you know, the guts of the building. Employees only area. And we're just. He gets a walkie talkie. He's in there in his ear. He knows what they're saying. We're watching him build a map of the place. The SWAT cops sugar for their coffee. A moment I thought was so key is when he is standing in front

of the fire alarm and he's listening to Hayley Mills' monologue and she says he's probably going to do something like, and I forget what the first thing she says is, but he's undeterred. And then she says fire alarm and he turns around and it almost feels like M. Night being like, people expect a twist ending at me every time. They're thinking, they're trying to out game me and I'm stuck, you know?

So what are some other things? He makes a canola bomb, he steals the API. That was fun. He gets the wallet. The oil bomb. Such a good moment on the roof where they're like, what's your pass? And he's just like, I'm sorry, like my coworker just got like exploded oil all over her face.

But like confidently reaches into a pocket, finds the wallet, which is what he was hoping for, and finds that the card is in the wallet, which is what he was hoping for. But you see zero hesitation in those first two moves. He's like, I'm going to fucking confidence my way through this and hope that it pays off. And it's how obviously he's done what he's been doing, which is basically like- It's what Allison Hill says. Right, and he's like a fire marshal

or a fire inspector or whatever, and he like cases empty houses that are like unused because of fire problems. What was BTK's job? Installed security system. Well, well, well. But so then he realizes that one lucky girl gets to go on stage with Lady Raven at every concert

and gets to go backstage afterward. Which feels kind of like a riff on the Bieber One Less Lonely Girl thing. Sure. I feel like it's a classic concert thing though, right? Like, oh, you're gonna get to go on stage and dance the Springsteen. We all know they pick someone and they have to do the one thing.

Incredible Shyamalan cameo. One of my favorites of his cameos. He explains what an uncle is. Proud uncle. Yeah. Like, obviously Shyamalan has gone from, I'm putting myself in my movies as a Hitchcockian nod to write my forebears to, I'm casting myself as the man who a Hitchcockian nod to write my my forebears to

I'm casting myself as the man who writes the book that changes the world back to now Him being like i'm having fun like his cameo in old is so good Right. Remember that one. That's really delightful for me still but like this one is similar where he's just like i'm behind the scenes I'm this guy who's you know, it's like you must be really proud and he's like, well, yeah But she's my sister's kid. I'm her brother of the mother. I'm this guy, but it's like you must be really proud and he's like well. Yeah, but she's my sister's kid I'm her brother of the mother. I'm her uncle Basically explain what an uncle Reading a picture to a child that explains a family tree your uncle

It's you're right But a heart and it obviously locks right in and gets his his kid picked as the dream girl by pretending that she has recovered from leukemia and has a tragic backstory. And he's doing that as means to an end. And the moment of panic when the mask comes down, as I was saying, is him being like, have I done something that will harm my daughter in the process? And the relief he feels when she's good on stage. Right. It's sort of he's pushing it and he knows he's pushing it. Like he wants out.

But right. He does want to get out clean without his kid figuring it out. Yeah. And he's. Yeah. One little moment I want to touch upon before we skip over it is just when the rapper comes out of the trap door. He goes, Hey, you want to go check that out?

It's crazy. We should go to cool. It's just like, dad, you're making costumes down there't raise the one. Why are you throwing costumes down there? Wouldn't it be like a funny bit? I think that's so funny. It does feel like something you would say to your fiance at a concert. Yeah, right, right.

That's something I might consider. The rapper Parker Wayne played by Russ. Oh, of course. Is the name of the performer. I like how dorky that guy looks. And then when the daughter sees him backstage and she's like, oh my god Jokingly faints into heart and it's so she gets awake elm tree body

Climb him like a fucking tree. Yeah, so they get backstage and This is when I am kind of at sea I'm kind like, I figured this whole movie was gonna be in here. Maybe until the last 10 minutes. Instead we're kind of halfway into the movie and it feels like we're wrapping up on the arena. Willems had told me that he knew someone who lives in the Philly area who got invited to a test screening.

His uncle got a Nintendo 64. But how is he his uncle? His mom, brother. Break it down. Right. They were once both babies, born to the same parent. They grew up. He knew someone. Who saw a test screening. And as someone very invested in the heart and a career asked him. Tell me everything. Right. And they said, no spoilers. The thing I was kind of surprised by was how much of it is on Shyamalan's daughter. And he was like, well, yeah, the whole thing's at the concert, right? And he was like, third act, she's kind of a dramatic center point.

So I knew that going in and I'm watching it the whole time going, I don't understand how this movie could possibly get to the point where it's hinging on her dramatically, where it doesn't just have to be on stage performance. And it is wonderful, you talk about all the craft of it, like that we're always with heart and it, but yes, we are learning that she actively knows about the sting operation and participated in it,

basically held the concert to get it. Surprise afternoon. It's not just, hey, can we do this at your concert? Right, can we create a Lady Raven concert around this idea? She's part of it. And she's into it, and not only that, she knows the profile of the guy. Haley Mills has filled her in.

And this incredible moment where Hartnett's like, because first he was like, hey, we don't have to go back through the crowd, can we leave from out here? And they're like, yeah, if you just check in with our serial killer team over here. Right. Procedure, no big deal, you'll be right through. There's also a great moment. Can we leave from out here? Yeah, if you just check in with our serial killer team over here, right? Procedure no big deal. You'll be right through there's also a great moment

when Shyamalan gives them the pass and is bringing them up to the stage and they're like four armed guards and they go like Excuse me No one's allowed past here without like a security check and Shyamalan goes like hold on and walks up to the guy and whispers In his ear for like 40 seconds, right and you're literally watching a Shyamalan hand wave happen in real time. But it's also him just being like, look, she has cancer, this and that. I'm going to explain to you why we don't have time for this plot beat basically. But yes, he cannot get out. So he plays the ace of spades, like the last card he has.

We've got one quick, one quick other detail is I love that. Like one of the, one of the identifying features is that they can tell he has this stupid little tattoo. Of an animal? Of an animal. He has, that is one of his only tells. And so he puts a slap bracelet. He does. Let's also call out one of the things that makes people go insane over this movie, which I agree is insane and is like from the mind of M. Night Shyamalan, like how does he think things work these days? But that the thing they've built the trap around was that they found a receipt for tickets

to the concert. Right. Where you're like, who's carrying a paper receipt? Dads. Dads. That's dad behavior. That's major dad energy. You know what?

My father certainly would print out tickets and receipts five times. It's probably the last generation that would do that, but I can buy it. Also, I don't know. You don't love to leave a paper trail. You also find it. Or like a credit card trail, you know? Maybe he walked up to the box office. But you also find out later it was placed. Yes. His wife did throw him under the bus. But anyway, right. He does, to my total surprise, kind of the biggest twist in the movie in a way

Is that he then marches up to Lady Raven and is like hello I am the butcher you've been looking for me and here is a man I can kill at the drop of a hat if You tell anyone he's like now get out of one second He's like sure he goes in and he gives her a monologue about carbon monoxide Fucking creepy and then goes like anyway. Yeah, so it is me. I'm the killer. How are we gonna do this? Right we're getting out of here in your limo and we are not getting serial killer checked by those dastardly serial killer checkers Yeah, and and it's one of those exciting moments where you're like, I don't know what there's 30 minutes left in the movie I don't know what could possibly happen at this and then yes, we do kind of switch to Lady Raven.

They're all together, but now we have this crazy uncomfortable thing where she doesn't want the daughter to know, maybe doesn't know the daughter, if the daughter knows or not, right? You know, they're like all together. I'm also in the opening credits, the reaction you had to Hailey Mills,

I see Allison Pills name, an actor I love. Oh, I do too, but I love Allison Pill. But I'm waiting for her. Sam, I'm going, where could she possibly fit into this? What type of role could exist in this movie that is big enough that hasn't been revealed yet? And then of course they get home, she is his loving wife, her name is Rachel.

And I feel like Lady Raven is where the audience is, where she, the whole time she's like, does she know? Does the kid know? Who knows and who doesn't know? Right? Like, what's the balance here? I thought that was going to be the twist when Lady Raven is locked in the bathroom and then she comes out and it's gonna be the wife being like,

-"Hello, I'm Mrs. Butcher." -"Hello, I'm Mrs. Butcher." Right. Yes, and honestly, my favorite... So, Seliga does have these massive eyes. being like, hello, I'm Mrs. Butcher. Yes, and honestly, my favorite, so Seliga does have these massive eyes, and I do feel like that's her biggest asset, but my favorite moment is when she just starts playing the piano, because kind of that's the thing she's the best at anyway, as like a power move.

Like that just worked for me a little better than her other power move moment when she's in the car with him and starts throwing mommy stuff at him. I like the idea of doing that to throw him off balance. I think she just doesn't quite sell the intensity of it. The livestream scene. I couldn't even tell if that was real or if he was imagining it. I think it's real, but it was so weird.

But she's using what she has, which is just the information they gave. I mean, I really like the history. She's like, ha ha, bringing up my mom. Not gonna bother me. I'm normal. I'm feeling fine. I'm doing my serial killer thing.

But this kind of control freak serial killer, Marie's going to the bathroom to check her murder basement. Yeah, she's doing it silently. This kind of control freak serial killer, there is this sort of psychology of the thing that wounds them the most is making them feel dumb, right? That their like sense of pride comes from like, and I did it perfectly and I lined it up and none of the clues and her being able to be like, hey, you know, here's like a dumb stereotype. They all have dark cars because it makes it look more clean.

He hates that he can be seen as that predictable. Exactly. That they would know that about him simply by guessing essentially at his behavior. Right, so it does kind of put him at like unease to just have someone read him. Whereas like a moment that I love in Harten's performance and in the script is where he's like I'm putting my hand on your shoulder, my fingers on your shoulder, and they are not coming off your shoulder until you're where you're where I want you to be. I've never seen anything like that. It's such a great expression of like the control and power he wants to exert. There's also in that walk he does with her,

he goes into what his like fucking the garage, the storage closet or wherever where he has a secret little magnet like wall reveal thing. But there are like three brooms on the wall that are? That are like on wall mounted, like hooks or hangers or whatever. And when he opens the door and walks through, he knocks one of them down onto the floor and then he readjusts the second one that he didn't knock down to make it more precise. And I'm like, that absolutely has to be a take where that was a mistake where he wasn't supposed to knock them over. He was just supposed to finesse them.

And it would be too hard in that moment to figure out how to kneel down and pick up the broom without taking your hand off the shoulder. But in real time, it's him being like, okay, I'm fucking up order and trying to maintain it at this, you know, like. He's losing the thread a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. And yeah, her biggest thing obviously is, you know,

she, fuck it, I'm gonna go on IG Live. I'm gonna get in this bathroom. Her superpower is fame. Yeah. With a busted lion statue, a blue door. The move of her playing the piano at the house is like, her superpower she has in this setting is the energy she is able to wield from doing shit. And the fact that his daughter is so obsessed with her

and he doesn't want to mess with that. Yes. Are you guys familiar with the Lady Gaga as a detective memes? No. Rings a vague bell. Are you familiar with Lady Gaga as Harley Quinn in Joker Follyada coming later this year to this feed?

Something, isn't there something she said like she looked into the evidence of January Going to the Capitol while she was there to Just saying she's like I'm also going to investigate. And so now it's become a thing where like people like Gaga's on the case. Well, Lady Raven is on the case. Far more safe now. She does. And she does. She wants, of course, remove his point of leverage, which is this guy.

And she succeeds. They do rescue the guy in the basement. Yeah. And then Cooper basically goes to the next stage, where he's like, well, I've locked my family upstairs. I'll hopefully explain that away later. We don't really know what's happened to them, which is really unsettling. Yeah, I thought that he, yeah.

I didn't know what it was. Like, did they run away? Did he kill them? Right. Or did he lock them away? Or did they find out? You know, we don't know. Yes.

Like, the movie is just, is like, well, we gotta keep going. Now they're in the car. Well, he says the thing in the car where, but he sees when the garage door comes up, they're standing in front of the car. Yes. Like they're challenging him.

If you try to escape, you're going to have to hit us. Right? Right. And then he says something to the effect of like, locked the door, windows close to the tree branch could have gotten down, never viewed from that vantage point before. That was such a funny line.

It's so good that he's never cased his own house. Because he's always had- Keep the life separate, don't let them touch. The peas can't touch the mashed potatoes. You gotta keep them separate. I think you couldn't possibly relate to. I was thinking about you a lot. Go on.

Go on. As a father of a daughter who is, you know, constantly compartmentalizing and keeping your family away from this, like, twisted, fucked up thing you do, which is, of course, this podcast. Disgusting. Wait, what did Ben say? He said, why are your fingers crossed? There is something I need to bring up. Please.

So we do record this show in a low vent- no ventilation windowless room. How dare you! We have an AC unit that usually works and one other thing! Central air! I'm just saying, if you put carbon monoxide through that vent right there- We could kill anyone we wanted so quickly. But also there are a bunch of chains that are just in the corner. Yeah, look, I think that comes up on a later episode.

I can't remember. But Ben does have a chain display up right now. He's got a rusty pipe functioning as like a hanger for multiple chains. It's a chain display. It's a chain display. That's how it's been described to me. And it was meant for his home, but weirdly his fiance objected.

She said, absolutely not. That would be so funny if like the FBI called us and they're like, we're so close to, we think we've identified the deadliest serial killer working today. The peeper. And it turns out, no, it turns out that he's a major blankie.

We've tracked his activity on r slash blankies and we're like really and they're like Oh, yeah, we check that all the time for potential serial killers. Can you book them as a guest on the show? It's a trap All right, we be easy to pump poison You know if the FBI asked us to if one of us were to be a serial killer and we know who it would be He's pointing at me. What the fuck? Why would it be me? I am the most well-adjusted of you for that is not true We're crazy crazy in the streets normal in the sheets, okay Well, he that's my I don't know if I worded that sheets. Okay. Well, he...

That's my, I don't know if I worded that correctly. I'm like, huh? Yeah, I mean, it's not hard for me to dodge you guys being like, you're actually the crazy one, and then you guys just like run into a wall. Yeah, on microphone. What happens, basically Cooper goes to a vacant house, right, well, no, first he, let's see,

he gets in the car with Lady Raven. Yes. And then gets in the limo or is it? He takes over her limo drive. Right, right. I forget how he does the swap of getting the, oh, oh, oh, what happens is he lets Lady Raven go. Yes.

Then they sort of case the house. Then you see him arranging everything in the house. He cleans up before the FBI are gonna raid it. They're like ready for a standoff. And he like takes everything out of the cupboard and lines it up perfectly and reveals the trap with the tunnel to the house to make them think that he escaped through that. Well, you don't even see that. It's more like you see him sort of taking stuff out of the closet.

They come in and it's revealed that he has built a secret escape. He's got a tunnel out. No, the escape's right, but they assume like, well, let's follow the escape. And somehow he has gotten a SWAT uniform. He doubles back or whatever. Right. And he knocks out a SWAT guy, one assumes or something. I don't know. Like, and he gets a SWAT uniform. That's when Allison Pille has the conversation with Haley Mills. Yes.

Where it's like, he's gone. We're going to find him. Sorry. Right. Allison Pill has this incredible, it is all one, two shot held in profile of watching this woman's life crumble, asking like, what is your read on these people? Right. And she says the whole thing of like, they're often this kind of child who like seem normal to everyone else and only a parent is the kind of person who could pick up on something being a

little bit odd. And you're seeing pictures of them as a family. Yeah, their wedding day, them on vacation, him with the babies, like all this shit. He is, as far as we can tell, largely quote-unquote normal. And then once in a while he puts someone in an unused... Houses aren't even being used. I actually think he's a hero. He's using homes. I want to remind people David was saying that he was the normal well-adjusted one and not the one who should be compared to a Murderer like the point in this scene. The butcher has maybe killed what like a dozen people or something like that

Well, yeah, like that he's done Classic butcher's dozen. Yeah, that would be but in this scene you're watching Allison Pyle and you're like this is a very good performance Yes, oh, Pill amazing. We love Allison Pill. To get back to Maria. This is a performance of a woman in real time trying to make sense of how she couldn't know the man she spent her life with, right?

That's how the scene reads the first time. Right. And you're like, this is really someone looking at these photos going like he seemed normal. And you're thinking that's why you have Pill, sure. Overqualified for a small part, but you need her for that moment. Correct. Great.

Movie's about to be over, right? Right. Not quite. Hartnett's driving the limo. And gets caught again. Yes. Ties her up. Right, weasels out of the, through the crowd again. Like they, they're like, we definitely got him in the limo.

Gets away wearing a disguise of Lady Raven merch. Yes. Lady Raven finds the the family the the guy that she saved right? That's what you're even by by that's the end of the my head cannon they got together afterwards would be nice They're trauma bonded kind of a meat. It's kind of a meat cute situation And hopefully has been a trap a romance trap. Yes! A parent trap. Kind of a parent trap. You're future parents.

And they have children. You cut to Allison Pill, back at home, making tea, and Heart Neck goes, you always do that thing. It's a, once again, it's just a plot contrivance that's like, do they let Allison Pill go home? Would she go home? I don't know. But she's there making tea in the dark

with her hand on her hip, and he starts doing his psychological read of her, and reveals that he's been running it all over in his head and the only way it makes sense is if she sold him out. Right. There's no way he just accidentally left a receipt in a vacant house. Like he's so meticulous. So here's a question for you. To the group. When Allison Pill is outside greeting them, you know, she calls her mom and says, Lady Raven's coming. We're coming over. Get ready. They're outside on the lawn like a perfect suburban leave it to be with family, right? With the younger brother waving so excited to greet her. They go in, they're serving her tea or whatever.

Allison Pill's super nice. She's like, the butcher? Oh yeah, I'm scared of him. My friends and I have nightmares about him. I was like, am I going to watch it the second time and think that Allison Pyl is like playing a chess game in the trap? Not that she's necessarily like in conversation with them, but that she's putting a face on and she's doing a performance. Watching it the second time, my read is that Allison Pyle is relieved. Yes, that it's not him. Right. If Lady Raven's coming back home with him, if he got out, then... She's at least hoping against hope. She says in the conversation, like, I wasn't sure. She wanted to be proven wrong. She wants to be proven wrong.

And he says the thing to her that's like, this is so selfish of you. You didn't think about the fact that our kids aren't going to have parents now. You know, like the thing that pisses him off the most. You're robbing me with time for my children. Yes. You're robbing. Sure. I'm a butcher. And also, but you're robbing our children. Our children now have to live with a murder dad. Well, also because in that equation, he is going to kill her and kill him. And he's like, so cliched. I hate that I've been reduced to murder-suicide. But we're gonna have to do it. Yeah.

She, you know, she gets to meet the pie. The lying. Right. Like that story, she recounts of him lying to a neighbor. Why they were late for a party or something. Like, so well, like constructing like an incredible lie. But not having to, like, even like... He didn't panic

It was so bright being just about it or anything like right and that started with her thinking that he was having an affair Like if I'm going to do what she's describing like lying to someone to get out of an obligation I'd probably have like a lunchtime planning session with my wife of being like is this white lie Can we can we get away with this? You know what I mean? I think I'm gonna say that, you know, my mom, and she's like, no, that makes sense. Let's do that, let's do that. I just don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Yeah, let's do that, yes.

And instead she's like, yeah, you just basically like went 100% lie mode. And it was like perfect. Yeah. No, like the switch of the switch. I love how she talks about the specific smell of the cleaning materials. Like it didn specific smell of the cleaning materials. Like it didn't smell like normal cleaning materials,

that smelled like hospital cleaning materials. It wouldn't be the chemicals you were around as a fireman. Yeah, and I was like, I got like a little chill. Antiseptic, perhaps about it. It is all very creepy. I do think there must be some people in the audience who are kind of like, the movie should be over by now, right? Like cuz it has like four set pieces

Yes Where you kind of keep thinking like this is the last set piece, right? This sequence which is so good and I think is so much these two performances just like absolutely fucking kind of lovely Dunking I do too. You know what I mean? Like it's tense and interesting I got the heart rate alarm on my watch which I'll never I glass time that happened to me was a way of water Hey when like my phone is like your heart rate seems high I'm so fucking locked into this happen to Mike Monroe when she first saw long legs And and they that was so natural that they put a heart rate monitor

Hey, look, I got him $25 million weekend the Olympics to where they're like and now a heart rate monitor on the parent, I got him a $25 million every weekend. Didn't you think that the Olympics too, where they're like, and now a heart rate monitor on the parent of this athlete. And I'm like, it's not shocking to me that they would be tense. You know what they should do? They should bring Maika Monroe to the Olympics

and put a heart rate monitor on her watching the competition. But then reveal to her that actually long legs is running in the hurdles. He'd be good at that. Whoopies got long legs. Legs are long. I've got Twitter open on my computer right now

and Olympic break dancing is happening. Well, it's breaking. Oh, sorry, Olympic breaking. It is so fucking stupid. Is it the electric boogaloo sequence section? There's this Australian woman named Reagan who I don't even think what she's doing is breakdancing. It's like Basically doing the three stooges

I see long legs doing Song yeah flopping around in a nice like athletic suit funny what has been added to the Olympics. It's all kind of like, oh, stoner kind of guy sports. It's like surfing, skateboarding, break dancing. Sport climbing, which has been added. Talking about Donnie Darko. But like climbing where you're like, yeah, it's just Darko analysis. Richard Kelly is like holding up numbers.

He's like, I got nothing else to do. Like the sport climbing. I think we'd at least get to the trials for that. Where you're like, oh, they're going to climb up a wall. Like how? Okay. And then you do it just so they go, they go, no, no, no, no, like a spider.

Have you watched sport climbing? I haven't. They're spider people. It's pretty cool. It's so cool. And are they doing it with like any ropes? Yeah, well, yeah, they're. Yeah. It's not free soloing. Yeah.

No. And it's also it's like not that tall. It's about speed, not. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, can you reach the top of the ceiling in four seconds? Like, I was going to say, this is the heart of the movie for me. This is the whole point of why he's making it, which is you're watching this movie going, oh, here's a serial killer who has created this persona of this dad he's struggling to maintain. And the longer it goes on you're like the dad is as honest a part of his personality, right? These are not like one

is real and one is a facade. Like both are him sort of doing acts in different environments and honest reflections of who he is in different environments. And I think this whole movie is like, this Alison Pilsen scene, you bowl down to like, can you ever really know someone? Even someone you're that close to, you spend your whole life with. Is there always some degree of performance and presentation

in how we interact with other people? And like who you are in different environments, you know, in the different modes and that there is a level of performance to like the person you need to be for your children, you know, which is different than who you are with your friends and all this sort of shit where they're like is there some inherent level of like we're always lying a little bit to serve that specific interaction or repackage ourselves in that specific way. And what's scary for her is like, I hope I'm wrong. I hope he is not the killer.

But what would scare me more, the idea that he tricked me. Or that I thought. There are two things that terrify her. One is. I've been living with a serial killer. And I wouldn't be able to notice. Had children. I was oblivious or that.

I figured it out, right? That I was right, and now I have to live with the reality of what it is. And like, I thought this reveal was going to be, oh, she was working with the police. No, it's like she basically created a clue trail to be like, well, if my suspicions are wrong, then nothing will fucking come of this. She doesn't know that the concert's a trap. No, she doesn't know, that's right. She doesn't know the concert's a trap.

She just wondered, it's like she called it an anonymous tip, but even a lesser version of that. She just kind of left something out being like, if this is something, it'll lead to something. If not, I don't have to worry about it. I'd be pretty stressed if I did that. Yeah. I would be kind of stressing out. A lot. You know, what's going on? What are you laughing at? What are the break dancers doing? Okay, we're not talking about break

dancers. Anyway, the most wonderful thing though, right, I feel like is Cooper's realization of like, I actually really care about this. Kind of sad that I might be killing you and myself. I know. This is kind of a huge bummer for me. It's hacky. Right. It's not the plot I wanted. And then he notices that, what is it, pie? Yeah, he's like, you have to eat this pie

that was either made for your daughter's birthday or your daughter made it or whatever. And he's like, okay, and she's drugged the pie. Talk about a great sound design moment. The specificity of the sound of him rubbing his fingers along the powder on the plate and then rubbing them against his, yeah. And she's like, that's what you used

to kidnap people, right? He says, you found my kit. And then the camera- They always have a kit. Slowly kind of like cranes down and you see like a fucking Sherlock Holmes bag open with like zip ties. Yeah, you left it in the car. Yeah.

Because he's been unraveling for the last act of the movie. He's been making more mistakes. It's it to me is very, you know, predictable. And, you know, when do they that's when they taste them. That's when he takes his shirt off and they taste his ass. Yeah. Yeah. What's been off for the whole time? Just for me personally, he actually when he does it for Marie,

when Josh called me, he said, did you notice I took my shirt off for Marie? Marie and don't spoil it for Marie. Yeah, I said, oh, thank you, Josh Thank you and March a mountain handcuffs. He steps aside There's the point where he sees his mom's oh Guys eyes and I could I know that's when he steals the outfit from the SWAT guy No, I thought that was when they take him on the tasing you're right hazing Yeah, it's how they you think he's maybe gonna get away again and instead they tase I mean

They double season right they don't be right one taser. No, no, no Big man and Yes, you see his mother talking to him But then I feel like the implication is kind of Hayley Mills is kind of pushing that, right? Like she's sort of saying these words and he's hearing it as his mother. Yes. Right, because she knows the buttons to push.

She's better than Lady Raven at this. Yes. And then he's down and yes, as he's leaving, he adjusts Riley's bicycle, he says bye bye. He's loaded into the van. She comes, runs over, you're like, how is she gonna react? And she hugs hugs him tightly like she's sad to say Goodbye to her father even though she presumably

Like don't sad to say goodbye like Lady Raven. She's letting go well Yeah, and also it's a room does have a song about forgiveness It's like he was a good dad to her You don't have to live in conflict with this and when you see him pushing up the bicycle you're like, okay So this is OCD tendencies, but also is it like some representation of his relationship with her? Saying goodbye to my daughter and then M. Night's got one final fucking oh He stole a little spoke. He stole a spoke. He's gonna have some fun. He's fishing out of the handcuffs the end of the movie He smiles he throws his hair back. He's having fun

Oh, and then I burst into applause. What a picture No, what a picture we walk out. We're talking Did you see the make-credit scene? Yeah My dudes a butcher We ran to a someone we know works in the industry and asked us not name them because They had negative opinions on the movie. Wait, I gotta know. We'll tell you afterwards. But we had like a long spirited conversation about this and in that

conversation and there was a lot of talk about like heart and it physically and how he's changed and how he stayed the same and all this stuff and I was like he never had a full grown unibrow but at his peak of teen kind of heartthrob dumb, Dot heavy brows. And there was hair in the middle, which I always thought was... I don't, I don't... I'm not saying this in a negative way. I'm saying it as just like, it was going against the trends of the day.

Josh Hartnett eyebrows. In this film, his eyebrows are very well defined. And I also noticed, and I said this in our post-movie conversation. I guess there's a little hair. I know, I'm sorry, I can't gr there's a little hair. He has the Griffin Dunn after hours. It's not a full unibrow, but he didn't shave that spot. Yeah, he's got a little bit of brown. It's shaved in this movie, and I also was like,

wait, did he fill in the gap in the teeth? The famous Josh Hartnett gap. Right. And then I looked back to the marketing of this movie, and the gap is still there. But they filled it in for this movie. Which I imagine has to be Shyamalan thinking, if this guy was this obsessed with control. He would have maybe worked on this. That's interesting, I didn't think about that. You're right, he does of course have that lovely gap,

but you don't really see it in track. No, they filled it in. They filled it in. Because when he's in the merch scene, it looks like whatever appliance they used is not very good and it looks like he has one long tooth at the front. Later in the merch scene, it looks like whatever appliance they used is not very good. And it looks like he has one long tooth at the front. Later in the movie, it's delineated,

but they clearly made some porcelain gap filler. It probably also just makes him less sort of cute, like a little scarier, like to not have that nice little sort of feature. Yeah, interesting. Trap, I think it, interesting. Trap. I think it's good. Yeah.

A huge fan. I think it's, I love old a lot. So I have to sort of think about that. I think old is so profound. Yes. Old is my favorite of the third act. Shyamalan. Right.

And I don't have trap there yet, but I'm excited to, you know, keep thinking about trap and I think it's one of his best accomplishments in a wonderful career. It's just fun. I think he's neat. Okay Kevin Costner. I was doing box office. Let's do the box office quickly. August 2nd 2024 obviously this is recent box office number one at the box office Griffin. Deadpool and Wolverine. There they are. Can I throw out a thought experiment? I've been sitting on this one. I want to get this on mic for you. It's quick.

And this is with no spoilers. Spoiler alert. Deadpool and Wolverine are there. I'm not pitching this as a better movie. I just want everyone to run this thought experiment in the head. Go ahead. With what that movie is trying to do with the character of Wolverine and the plot line they're trying to give him, does that movie not work narratively, emotionally better if it's Dougray Scott? This is my argument for why the story of this movie is kind of broken. No, it does not. That's a crazy, that's a very funny pitch. I really like that

pitch. It's funny. Of course he wouldn't give a better performance. Jackman's performance is the best argument for that movie. Look, nut. But I also think they don't really know why we're bringing Wolverine back other than people want him back. I can't believe I'm about to disagree with you and defend Deadpool and Wolverine. No, I don't think that's true. I think the point of Deadpool and Wolverine is, God, I hate that I'm defending the narrative of this fucking movie. I've trapped you.

Yeah, the whole thing was a trap is Deadpool and Wolverine being like man We're gonna be the only ones they care about from 20 plus years of these movies, huh? Like we're gonna be the only ones that get to go into the fun ones that make money Everyone else is gonna get left behind and it's kind of devil being like can I at least bring like Daphne Keane? Maybe a fuckhead, you know, what's her pants a blind lady, you know Come on Marina Baccarin I kind of care about her It sort of depends on where we are in the movie, but she supposedly is my love interest

I just and Wolverine obviously is You know him being like well, I'm Deadpool like, I'm the special one, right? And they're like, well, actually, no, Wolverine is, but he died. And he's like, well, fuck. What if I go get a shitty Wolverine? And yes, your joke is like, what if it's literally Degray Scott, right? Like a shitty, a Wolverine so shitty we never got to see him.

But then it's, you know. Because they're kind of having both ways of being like, well, we want to respect the sanctity of Logan by using his corpse as a weapon But also saying that that character is dead. I'm saying I don't here's just a different guy played by the same guy I just don't care about any of it and whatever I actually like that it desecrates Seriously it's a totally good movie that succeeds That is true.

Yeah, that movie is... Yeah, I mean, my whole thing with Deadpool and Wolverine is that I was just like, it has that feigy slickness that I both understand the appeal of and kind of am sick of. Simultaneously, I felt that, where I'm like, this movie is kind of humming along and I find it a little insidious.

Makes no sense, right? Yeah I have other takes that I can't say because they're spoilers and I don't want to ruin shit for people But that was my big one. I think most people have seen Deadpool and Wolverine if they want to at this point Yeah, but yeah, that's the film. Did you see it three or four times yet? Deadpool Wolverine because you have to go to different theaters to get the different buckets. Exactly I'm Wolverine because you have to go to different theaters to get the different buckets exactly Maybe you're collecting all of the different my friend Over in blowjob. Oh, it's like my brother wants the bucket. I was like Bucket oh yeah, I wasn't interested in seeing the film

But then I was really swayed by the gay panic marketing campaign there I was like, you know what? I really have to see this movie. Hey, it's this line they tell it's a movie. Well, whatever, I can't even get into this. They also showed it to me in IMAX, and I was like, guys, showing it to me in IMAX is not going to, you know, you can't just sprinkle gold on the movie. Like, it's not gonna help.

I'd love to see a perfect Levy composition in this. I'll say this about Sean Levy. Seems like a nice guy. This is the episode where I talk about people I've interviewed. I interviewed him once for a big story I did about Netflix. And my kid was homesick. She was napping and I was like, I think I'm going to get this interview in before she wakes up.

She woke up during the interview and I had to get her out. And she was yelling and then running around and stuff. And he was incredibly nice about it and was like, I have kids. I know what's going on, do not worry about it at all. And I always thought he was cool. I have never heard anything less than glowing about him as a person and not just like,

he's performatively nice. Like that guy's actually got character. Seemed all right. I don't really care for him. And he's Canadian, you know, Canadians. Number two at the box office, Twisters. I'm just saying it. Yeah. Did you see Twisters, Ben?, Canadians. Number two at the box office, Twisters. I'm just saying it. Yeah.

Did you see Twisters, Ben? I did. Cool. My friend, Rebecca, her husband is Harry, the British guy in the film. Oh! It was really rude. Wait, really?

That guy fucking rocks. I saw him on Broadway and My Fair Lady was insanely good. Yeah, yeah. Cool. I love the film. I mean, he's fun in Twisters, too. Yeah, he's really fun in Twisters. I thought it was just like a silly, fun movie. I love the film. I mean he's fun in twisters, too. Yeah, he's really fun in twist I thought it's just like a silly fun movie. I had a great time

Yeah, this is the thing that I think I loathe to acknowledge them the Blankie subreddit brought to my attention Twisters scoundrels has weirdly I don't even want to say collapsed like is a non-starter at the overseas box office It's done poorly overseas every single. And people are pointing at like, well, it's a very, it's an American Heartland movie. Glenn Powell isn't really known over there yet. And I think the more interesting thing is that movie has the same distribution split

that the original Twister had because that was a very big production at the time where it was Warner Brothers and Universal together. Half and half. And Universal gets domestic and Warner Brothers gets the rest of the world on this one. Huh. And a lot of our international listeners were saying, you guys are overanalyzing this,

this movie was not marketed in this country. I saw no trailers, there are no posters. Warner Brothers seems to just be shitting the bed. And you look at Warner Brothers' summer, at a time where they just took a massive write-off. And you see only success. Wait, didn't they just announce that they were, they miscalculated their Q2 revenue

by like nine billion dollars or something? It's truly them being like, oh, we're actually worth a lot less money than we said we were. But here's what their summer has been. Furiosa, sadly, just a total flop. Right? Yeah. Horizon, weird output deal. We didn't make this movie. Yeah negative. I don't think they're taking a bath

But yeah trap same fucking deal, right? also not really their project in the same twisters is like a Universal movie that Warner Brothers was baked into the contract on and seemingly just dropped the ball in every other country It's true. It's made less than half of its domestic take. Its domestic take is very strong. Yeah. And yeah, it's weird. They've like, the movies they're releasing

aren't even movies they make anymore and they're fucking those up. And Twister One, to be clear, made like tons of money overseas. Yes. And is also a movie about tornadoes in Oklahoma. Like it's not like. Yeah, you know, I did some, you know,

cursory tornado research. Yeah after twisters They do exist in other countries. It is not but not nothing like America No, they have tornadoes in Bangladesh. Yes, they do they do they have tornadoes in other places, but there's nothing like it's so weird to me and respect to the people who live in tornado alley that there's just a part of America where they're like Yeah, it's just kind of where they love to be is tornadoes right here There's this weird thing of people like it's not like oh this movie is underperforming Overseas relative to here where it's doing really fucking well here, and it's holding

Yeah, it is it's holding amazing is a fully formed is it brat Is it whisters brat? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, It's a little too folksy to be brass. But was that a lady from ER? Mara Tierney, yes. Yeah. A role that definitely wasn't written for Helen Hunt. Definitely wasn't. But Helen Hunt wanted to write and direct her own sequel to Twisters. Yes. And they instead picked a different cast member

of Hamilton. She was gonna do it with Daveed Diggs. Right, right, right, right. I just love, things I loved about Twisters, one, that Mara Tierney shows up. Two, my headcanon that Glenn Powell fucked Mara Tierney when he was hanging out at her house. Yes, I loved about Twisters. One, that Marge Yearney shows up. Two, my headcanon that Glenn Powell fucked Marge Yearney when he was hanging out at her house. Yes, I was about to say.

I saw a tweet that was like, people are like, why didn't they kiss at the end? Because Glenn fucked her mom. That's a line he doesn't cross. All over the fucking barnyard. One per family for Glenn. Three, I just love that it's like, yeah, Glenn Powell plays the square jawed American,

you know, Storm Taser guy, but then his whole crew is like Bushwick. Like, it's just like this bunch of like, crunchy fun guys. It's American Honey. Yeah, yeah. You know, American Honey and the guy from TV on the radio. The guy, loved him.

Brandon Perea, all those guys. My one criticism of the movie, which I did really enjoy is, I think Anthony Ramos sucks He's not look I like him and I think that is not the right fit for him that part What is that role where he's like? Well, I wear a polo shirt and I'm boring about tornadoes like what the fuck is that? Yeah, but even like corn sweat pops. He does I saw that guy in that movie

And I was like I am pumped to see this guy play Superman This guy looks like Superman this guy went from playing like kind of like square jawed creeps and assholes and now we're like, can you be the embodiment? I think he's gonna be good. I think he's gonna be good. He's like scary in Pearl. Yeah.

He's an asshole in Twisters. He's good in Twisters. He's very weird in Apple TV plus this lady in the lake. Okay. Oh, I should check that out. He certainly has the look, but I saw someone say like, is the movie not better if you swap

Ramos and corn sweat in their roles and probably maybe yeah But anyway number three the box office trap Yes, yeah number four an animated film one and I will say I think one of the only movies I will give credit to Warner Brothers for actually promoting correctly releasing correctly In this summer than fucking it up. Deluca told me yeah when when night pitches you a script, right? You know your or whatever the next project. He's like, let's start talking marketing right away. Yeah, it's like they're immediately Yes, it's all part of the package. Yeah, he wants audiences to see it. Blah blah blah. Yeah number four Number four at the box office.

Is it still Inside Out, or is it Despicable Me 4? Despicable Me 4 is number four, and Inside Out 2 is number five. And weirdly, the best film of the year, Harold and the Purple Crayon, opened at number six. What is that? Well, you know that Delightful Children's book about a boy with a magic crayon who draws things

and they come to life? It's a classic book about a baby and a onesie who's got a purple crayon, and he can draw imaginary friends. But they made Harold, they made the baby Zachary Levi. Who do you love the most? Zachary Levi. Who do you want to have the power of the purple crayon? What do you mean? Yes, you do. And you want to go on a cruise with him

and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to talk about that scene. And he's not even mad, because it's actually funny, because it's a perfect family film. And I'm so late for dinner. That is a cruise you can go on right now. It's also like Adriana from The Supremes. Yeah, and Meta World Peace. Someone with a substaff.

Are you allowed to wear a mask on it? Sure. I think that film was... You want to get thrown overboard. I think that film was shot in the year 2020. It's been much delayed. It's certainly as someone who maintains the Atlantic's internal movie schedule spreadsheet,

like just so we can keep, I kept putting it in and then I would see like, oh, I guess they kicked it another year. All right, I'll take it off. It's been around for a while. And they're basically just doing the elf thing of like weird character escapes from like storybook reality Like the idea is that like he was the character in the book and he grew up into a man and then he left the book

And now he's in the world down to Zoe Deschanel playing the same role She played in fucking elf 20 years ago That's a bummer that she's in it Where she's like retail worker and this weird man child comes in starts acting strange and she's like, what's your deal? It's a bummer. And she fucks him, she fucks the baby man. I have heard that thankfully she does not fuck the baby man. Weird man child comes in starts acting strange and she's like, what's your deal? It's a bummer I have heard that thankfully she does not fuck the baby man that it does not become a romantic relationship And Elphie feels a little bit like there is a

Blurry line there. Maybe the movie should think about harder. Yeah Anyway, number seven the second freakiest movie of the year long legs after Harold and the Purple Crown Which has yes made 70 million dollars at the time of recording number eight a quiet place day one a very robust little hit Solid movie that I thought right was a pretty good movie. Yeah number nine is something called the firing squad What the heck is inside out at the top ten or do you say number five after despicable me it is currently the tenth highest grossing film of all time Yeah, sure is still has legs. Maybe they're not long, but it's still it's still got some gas in the tank It is and I've heard long legs will be one of the emotions in inside out three Well, of course one of the core emotions will conjure up on a daily basis. Just do with that in the background I think long legs is funny

I also think it's funny with they're like alright long legs. Why'd you do all this shit? He's like And people like oh, this is stupid and not scary and I'm like, I don't know he kind of rocks I think I was Perkins fed on big picture where he was just like I think these guys are weebs. I Think we mythologize serial killers to try to make them interesting and they're usually just weird loners who get hung up on dumb shit like T-Rex Inside out to yeah Number ten is bad boys ride or die another fairly robust hit and fun movie of the summer How much hand-bringing there was throughout all of May you look at the top 10 now and you're like there are like eight different movies Performing very well in different genres for different audiences like everyone's now fucking calm. Yes

It truly but it truly just took Inside out to doing so well the people like well I guess people like to go to movies and I guess all my worries the last month are Disproven by this and I'm like right a year earlier. We earlier, we had Barbenheimer. It was like a spell broke. Yeah. And a year before that, we had Top Gun Maverick. And six months before that, we had Spider-Man, No Way Home. And it feels like every six months, people go

like, but they might have actually left theaters for good this time. They're never coming back. It's like we've had several of the highest grossing movies in history released post lockdown. And now Deadpool and Wolverine is another one. It's basically already at a billion dollars,

despite being, and I say this fondly, a stupid movie for dumbasses. Yes. Right? Yeah. Like, right? Like, it costs a lot of money, and it's a lot of people making an effort,

but at the same time, you know, the whole point of Deadpool is him going like... You know, like, that is what it is. Yeah, it's a movie that basically starts with him being like, now obviously this doesn't matter. Right, right, 100%. Right. So that's the box office.

Can I say one final thing? You sure can. Ben, you know, we talked about some great moments of Ben witnessing a trailer for the first time on the show. Oh, fuck, yeah. Like spies in disguise. I knew this was going to happen. Right?

Yes. A trailer comes up last night and Ben sees animated Lego men and he turns to me and gets excited. Oh, the Lego movies, those are fun. You had a bit of a smile just at the reveal of it is a Lego movie. And I said, Ben, stay focused.

I want you to figure out what this is. Don't look away from this trailer. I want you to really try to lock into what is this movie. And of course it was piece by piece. The animated documentary about Pharrell Williams directed by Morgan Neville. I didn't realize it was a documentary. Morgan Neville is very firm on it being a traditional documentary

that fulfills all of the benchmarks of that as a format. And I was so confused because I was like, oh, Michelle Gondry is making a Pharrell biopic. Universal seemingly has some Pharrell deal where they're working on multiple things with them. But one of them is Michelle Gondry is making like a fictionalized version of his childhood as a musical movie with a good cast. But also like Michelle Gondry famously made an iconic music video. Yes. With Legos. Right. But he's not making the Lego movie. No, Morgan Neville. The documentarian.

Right, filmed a bunch of- Not a man known for whimsy. Filmed a bunch of interviews with Pharrell and other people and then animated them in Lego format. Now people are like, what is this? How is this real? How did this come into being? And I just want to very quickly establish,

because I think it's the kind of thing our listeners love, Warner Brothers has their Lego movies, right? People, how are you gonna make a fucking movie out of Lego toy movies? That'll never work. First Lego movie, Humongous, Lego Batman, big, then big drop off on Ninjago. It was like they went to the well

too many times too quickly, but they've been taking the time to get Lego movie part two, right? They're waiting for that one. That will reset the train. That comes out, underperforms wildly. Huge drop off. Made enough money, but not much.

Warner Brothers is at the end of their film agreement with Lego, and they're like, you know what? We're choosing not to renew. We had three or four more Lego movies in development. At one point in time, we thought Lego was gonna be as robust as DC. We could be releasing two different Lego movies every year. Maybe we got too big for our britches, let it go.

So then there's like a competitive auction for who gets the Lego movie rights. Universal's like, we need this. You have done this rant before, Griffin, I will say. I need to bring it back into focus in relation to piece by piece. Universal gets it and they're like, great, let's get to work making Lego movies.

So part three, Emic and Wildstyle, Unikitty, and they're like, oh no, no, no, no. Warner Brothers owns all of those characters. And they're like, wait, so what did we just buy in the auction? And they were like, the ability to make movies in the medium of Lego. Hey, not nothing. And nothing else. So Universal has spent six years trying to go, well, how do we make shit that's different than what Warner Brothers made?

Because we don't have those characters. We can't continue any of them. Voldemort can't be in your movie. Right, all of that. So we need to define what's our Lego movie. At various times, we have heard pitches that didn't go of like a live action movie with one Lego CGI character who is five feet tall

and interacts with the real world. Harold and the purple crayon style. I'll remind you of that later. Like shit like that. They keep on trying. They can't fucking square. They're like six years in this deals about to run out. They clearly just threw a Hail Mary pass and they went like, for all, would you want to do a documentary Lego? You think that's how it was? It feels like a battleship deal where they had to do something.

I don't know if Pharrell pitched it or right or they were like, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. But what if it was Lego? I would love to know. They had just spent six years making nothing after spending a lot of money and it's clear that at some point someone was like, we need to figure out some way to turn something into Lego. Well, I think it's going to work. Yeah, Ben was crying by the end of the trailer. Yeah, I'm not convinced it's going to be something into Lego. Well, I think it's going to work. Yeah. Ben was crying by the end of the trailer.

Yeah. I'm not convinced it's going to be a good film. That Snoop Dogg turns into a dog. But we'll see. He's a Lego Snoop Dogg and then the chair spins around and he turns into a dog. Anything can happen. It's kind of cool to see Legos rocking fits. Sure.

Trap good. Trap good. Trap fun. I'm glad we all enjoyed Trap. And look forward to talking about another M. Night Shyamalan movie in 18 months. I expect you all to be normal about this episode next week. Great question. Horizon. Horizon. Horizon part one in American Saga.

A very normal episode. Yeah, an episode that was recorded at a time when we thought Horizon part two would be coming soon. But hey, it's going to be at Venice, which means it exists and we will have it someday I am trying to get your ass to Venice. I mean a movie that's playing at Venice. Yeah, I mean like Kevin Costner Guaranteed to see her eyes and part two. So I don't know stay stay tuned for that I may or may not go to Venice of whatever. I think you should. I think you'd be so cute on a little speedboat, Griffin. I'm just...

Would they let you go on the speedboat? Does everyone get to go on the boat? I am just trying to figure out the logistics. I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to get all the ducks in a row a month out to do this. But we'll see. I'm trying. Maybe I'll be reporting live from the Lido, having walked out of six straight hours of Horizon. You know they're screening the back to back. I know, I know, because that's the only way it makes sense.

He's not just showing part two, he's like, no, you need to see the whole thing. Wow. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Hey, thanks to. Marie Barty for social media and for helping to produce the show.

Thanks to. Me, Ben Hosley, for producing the show. And you're editing this episode because it's a fast turnaround. Quick turnaround. It's a quick turnaround one. And the editor is on vacation. Yeah. But he's also our production coordinator, Jamie Kinn.

Thank you to Joe Bon and Pat Rounds for our artwork, Laymon Governing the Great American Owl for our theme song, Lady Raven for the soundtrack to War of Hearts. for our theme song, Lady Raven, for the soundtrack to War of Hearts. No thank you to JJ this week because new releases don't have dossiers. Yeah. JJ is now floating the theory that Zaslav is pulling movies off the schedule

because he doesn't like episodes where JJ can't prepare a dossier. He texted that today at the news of the Gendi Tartakovsky movie getting shelved. It's fun. It's a good time in the film industry. Go to BlankCheckPod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon Blank Check special features where we're doing tabletop games, including the recently mentioned Battleship, a movie that comes out of another

bad deal that Universal made. David can't find the forks. And as always, we just want to remind you that he is the most normal member of the podcast. The most normal guy to ever live.