Blank Check with Griffin & David - Yentl with Jordan Hoffman

Episode Date: January 21, 2024

Podcast, can you hear me?” We certainly can, Barbra! The very menschy Jordan Hoffman joins us to chat about Streisand’s official directorial debut, a marvel of a film that makes anyone describing it sound insane. Yes, Barbra wrote, directed, produced, and starred in a period piece about a shtetl girl who crossdresses in order to study the Talmud. Yes, the film is a musical with songs composed by Michel Legrand. Yes, Barbra is the only person who sings in it, despite the male lead being Broadway legend Mandy Patinkin. Yes, Steven Spielberg called this movie “the greatest directorial debut since CITIZEN KANE.” Yes, we think Barbra should enter the MCU and direct Ant Man 4. Wait, what? Read Jordan’s writing This episode is sponsored by: Zocdoc (zocdoc.com/check)  Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com or at teepublic.com/stores/blank-check

Podcast, can you hear me? Podcast, can you hear me podcast can you see me podcast can you find me in the night podcast can you near me let me take that line again then cut that in are we done nope i think we got it. Podcast, are you near me? Podcast, can you hear me? Podcast, can you help me not do bits? I had to. That was good. That was good.

That was good. The diction's a little off. Yeah. Barbara does it. Do you want to try? By all means, give it a go. I would need the lyric sheet. And I would.

I'm not. I'm going to text it a go. I would need the lyric sheet. And I would, I'm not. I'm going to text it to you. Jesus Christ. Okay. Because the last time you were on, let's remember, the podcast started with you and I singing together. What were you singing? Oh, yeah, that's right. Pod.

That was good. Pod. I went high, you went low. Pod. Oh, yes, of course. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast.

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Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. podcast. podcast. Because the thing about Barbara Jones Streisand is the way the diction is key to her vocal performance. Jordan, I can see to you that I am not as good at singing as Barbara Streisand. I take this note. I don't push back on it. I'm certainly missing the diction. I would say I'm missing every other aspect of what makes her a good singer. Oh, no.

You've got the heart, though. That's the thing. Oh, sure. Okay. I'm texting you though. That's the thing. Oh, sure. Okay. I'm texting you this. All right. I want to hear your take. I turned my phone off.

Jordan. All right. Here we go. So, obviously, she's singing to her father. Of course. The great beyond. Papa, can you hear me? Papa, can you?

Or in your case, podcast. Yeah. Let's take it again from the beginning. Remember podcast Should I go? Podcast can you hear me Stay in it Podcast can you see me

Podcast can you find me In the night I mean I am hearing The difference here Yeah It's a rounder Podcast can you hear me Podcast can you hear me podcast can you help me

not be slowing down and then fright sure and then the swirl i mean yeah it's good it's a good it's a good movie it's a good score michelle le grand that's right alan and uh marilyn bergman yeah forget about him can i i just want to say right alan and marilyn on the lyrics michelle le grand that's right alan and uh marilyn bergman yeah forget about him can i i just want to say right now alan and marilyn on the lyrics michelle on the piano we right off the top here's the thought i had constantly while watching this movie this thing's a fucking miracle this is a movie where every single second of it you're like this should be collapsing everything about this movie shouldn't work and i'm just like anyone who has any cynicism or criticism about this movie shouldn't work and i'm just like anyone who has any cynicism or criticism about this movie i'm just like say whatever the fuck you want this should not work

one iota no we've seen the version of this movie that doesn't work in one sense knobs knobs knobs is them being like well yentl worked that's not the only example of it but it's not perfect i think it's the most perfect example of a an aspect of this film not working and then there's the other aspect of this film of it's a musical where one person sings and half the time it's just in her head yes half the time i think 100 she once in a while will sing with her mouth and you're almost kind of like wait maybe you shouldn't there are 10 different overriding elements to this movie that shouldn't work where like if you pitch me that, I'm a guy behind a big desk with a slinky gun, okay?

And they're like, and she'll be the only one singing. I'm like, well, that doesn't make sense. You know, like, I would nix it. She's starring, producing, co-writing, directing. She's 40. Has she directed a movie before?

No. The character in the book is 16. Yeah, but, you know, she's got a baby face. The studio that was going to make this just got bankrupted by Heaven's Gate. A movie this is kind of similar to in certain ways on paper in terms of what the cost of it is going to be. And this sort of, I say this kindly, the vanity element. Yeah, all of it. You're just like, any one of these things shouldn't work and the

fact that she's holding all of them simultaneously uh yeah knobs is a great uh you know three decades later how hard can it be right let's just try to pull another yentl but the the movie though yes obviously there's a you know barbara's got a you know i don't want to say kitsch value but like people flock to her and celebrate her even when she's not at her peak yeah the movie rocks oh great yeah this movie kicks ass yeah i agree right i mean david i'm i love yentl okay say it sing it loud i love yentl i don't know rounder rounder rounder uh i love yentl. Okay, rounder. Rounder. Rounder. I love Yentl. I agree with you, Griff, that... Keep in your pants. Hold on.

I love Yentl so much, I want to swim nude about it. It's starting to sound like every character in this movie. Yeah. This film, let's just say right off the bat, goes...

It's true. Yentl is like... This goes into the war horse canon of every single character who comes across Yentl is like, fuck, do I want to... You can't stop thinking about Yentl stop jesus please introduce our podcast what were you you i want you

to finish your point about how much you love yentl can't remember what it was but it was sort of along the warhorse lines of like how can you not love yentl but no go no introduce our podcast and then you know then we can speak without fear. Oh, sure. We want to get past that threshold. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies,

directors who have massive success early on in their careers, sometimes not even in directing, in being one of the greatest stars of the 20th century, and are given a series of blank checks for how much she had to fight for 20 years to get this movie made. It was ultimately a blank check. Her guarantor is everything up until this point uh this is a rare sort of first movie blank check uh obviously uh star is born we've already covered as part of this series also functions as a guarantor movie that she basically ghost directs this is her first proper directing credit uh i finished i fucking fucking derailed my own spiel.

It's a series of blank checks that make whatever crazy cash or products they want. Sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce. Papa. It's a miniseries on the films. Good. Barbara Streisand.

Barbara. Barbara. I have to constantly remind myself not to do the Barbara. No, no way. She cut that out. No way. out no way cut it out she took it out cleaner are you considering um her television specials as part of her i bought i'll have you know jordan i bought the box set and i've been working through them nice there's now she was actively involved in the production i know uh as of now we're not planning to cover those in any way but i've been

watching have you watched color me barbara yet yes because she has she sings to an anteater and yeah it's great this is when tv was good that's my main takeaway from watching these specials more this less of everything the fucking else yeah and she's the one where she's like a little five-year-old girl yes that's the's the first one. They're so formally weird. Totally. And they're shot on that like one-inch videotape. Yeah, which I love. Well, okay.

That's fair. It's an aesthetic choice. I love the vibe of it. Yeah. Yeah. But yes, today we're talking about, and look, it means a lot when I say this, but I'm about to say lands with a lot of weight. Oh, here it comes.

The titular movie of this series. And go on. An important distinction. Because this series on the films of Bob Rustry Sand is called Podcastle. Podcastle. That's the center of the ship where the stick in the middle. It's a mast. Oh, the podcast.

The podcast. There you go. That's funny, right? Yeah, that's funny. That's a good no the oh the podcast the podcast there you go that's funny right yeah that's funny that's a good joke solid joke okay thanks she called a friend of the show uh a real mensch doing us a mitzvah sure uh producer ben frisch yes filling in on the ones and zeros today hey and you brought a book. Please show Griffin. Yeah. This is just a fabulous coffee table book. It sits proudly on my coffee table every day. It's Barbra Streisand's My Passion for Design,

which just includes, I mean, hundreds of pages of Tiffany lamps, American arts and crafts furniture, and her screening room, which actually does look it looks unbelievable fabulous yeah um ben uh the dog what what what is the publication date on that book i was trying to find this out i don't know if this is the original dog or the clone you knew the question i was gonna ask barbara of course famously had a dog that she loved and when the dog was dying she uh pulled dna so that she could clone the dog and never not have that dog. But we don't know if that's dog one or dog two. She should have painted a number

on them, like a rabbit. It would be dog one or dog prime, I think is what it would be. I finally arrived my giant. That's the sound. This is not going to be juiced in post. This is

the sound of me dropping my name is barbara on my desk it's a big boy it's um it's a hefty boy i'm on page 440 give or take okay and it's it's great yes it's so good uh jj has has been able to pull from it uh tear through it pretty quickly and put it in the dossier but admittedly because of the time we're recording this synced up around the release of the book and the barber reevaluation we have not been able to uh read it uh thoroughly ourselves uh but i was saying i was going on a trip and i was annoyed that the book wasn't going to arrive until the day after my flight and you said griffin you would not be allowed to bring that on yeah

it's not one that you can you can't really read it in bed it's kind of a chest kindle only in my opinion my thought was it's the size of 12 Kindles. It did more. My thought was I could tape a handle to it and make it my carry-on. That'd be good. Right, right, right. This is my one Kindle. And then you sort of like put your clothes in between the pages.

And then it's actually like basically a suitcase. Yes. It's 970 pages. Put a leather belt around it. It's not like just, you know, filled with indexes and appendices and photos. It's 970 damn pages. It's full pages. Right.

She's only 81 years old. She could have another 15, 20 years of life and she's going to have to do an addendum. I hope so. It'll be like when Ken Burns had to do a couple more baseball episodes. I hope a year from now she puts out a second volume that's also 900 pages. It's just as long. It's been a busy year. But it's just her being like, I went to the coffee shop, I got an egg salad sandwich.

It gets a little more minute. I mean, the degree to which, David, you're not— She actually talks about food a lot, right? There's a sequence in this book where she wants rice pudding, but she doesn't want rice pudding with raisins, which I disagree with. Pin in the raisins. I have a raisin story. Three chapters on this? Well, no, but there's a whole section about she dispatches Elliot Gould all across Manhattan

because it's late. So Elliot Gould's running around Manhattan trying to find her a diner at one in the morning that will serve her rice pudding with no raisins. And he did it. Yeah, good for him. I mean, that's Elliot Gould, you know, step above and beyond. Do you have a comment on this before I want to say something about jordan and raisins yes i i think i know where this is going but we've talked uh i've talked a lot on the show about certain uh sort of

humiliation domination subjugation fetishes that i don't understand that don't align with my psychology yes if barbara streisand yelled at me to go get her raisins at three o'clock in the morning i would come immediately. I'm not even saying she's my type, but I just, well, you just described. I might want to bleep that out, too. Keep it in and triple it. No, I get it.

No, don't do that. Keep it in, but don't triple it. Okay, don't triple it. If Barbra Streisand yelled at me to go get her raisins at three o'clock in the morning, I would come immediately. Raisins. Jordan and I have seen a lot of each other in the last few days because we were at the

iron claw screening on monday night and then we were at the napoleon screening on tuesday afternoon a sort of rush at the end of the year final movies trying to get into the wire for voters and stuff and uh both screenings he was walking around with a Ziploc bag filled to the brim with raisins, quoting Jordan Hoffman now, the size of cockroaches. This is what I heard. End quote. This had already hit my ears. Trying to make people take a raisin in, you know, maybe not aggressive fashion, but like he was pushing the raisins pretty hard. They're imported.

Sure. I believe turkey. They are so good. And I don't have them with me. You're flying raisins pretty hard. I'm just saying they're imported. Sure. I believe Turkey. They are so good. And I don't have them with me. You're flying raisins in from Turkey? No, I bought them in a store. But they're really, there's a special kind of plump,

juicy, golden sultana, which sounds like a Marvel villain, but she's actually, it's a type of raisin. It is. Larger. People are frequently, you always hear like,

oh, I don't like it with raisins. I don't, you know, this anti-raisin sentiment has got to end. Raisins rule. Yeah. actually uh it's a type of raisin it is and larger people are frequently you always hear like oh i don't like it with raisins i don't you know this anti-raisin sentiment has got to end rule yeah yeah i don't like a reason so i went around and everybody i guess there was one or two people who just flat out refused i think erlich me and erlich yeah he would erlich refused and since so those two guys i got problems but everybody else that gave one too yeah initially were like sure i'll take one of your raisins and they were like blown away oh this is really good okay propaganda a couple people seem to like them a lot of people are like it's a raisin you're telling me this is the yentl of raisins and that everyone on on its face goes not my kind of thing this

isn't gonna work they take a bite and they go i'm over. I saw a lot of people eat the raisin and go like, basically yell at you, yeah, Jordan, it's a raisin. Like, you know, they didn't dislike it, but they had maybe been promised to fall still again. I see it a little differently. You know, I think where is it written that you cannot give a raisin to somebody at a school? I mean, he's like the fucking

Halloween house where the parents are like, don't be taking random shit out of a Ziploc bag. You know, you need wrapped candies. Our guest today is Jordan Hoffman, king of the raisins. Jordan Hoffman, where do you work these days, Jordan? What's your actual title? You have a staff job now. Yeah, I've been on this show now five times.

Wait a second. This is the fifth time. This is your fifth time on? Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I believe you're right. Blue Steel, finally out on Blu-ray now. Wow.

Available on physical media for the first time in a long time. Yeah. Then, uh... Melvin. Melvin. Yep. And Howard. Uh, 2001, this.

What's the other one I'm forgetting? Beowulf! Beowulf. Where you were drinking mead. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So, and what's funny is that, so I've been on this show now five times. Yeah.

Um. The five movies that define your personality. Every single time it's in a new space. Yeah. Wow. on this show now five times yeah um the five movies that define your personality every single time it's in a new space yeah wow every single time it's been in a new room one was a room to the right one was a room to the left yes you did both studios at audio boom you did ben's apartment blue steel was in the nice studio at audio boom alvin howard was in the dog shit studio right where i deserve wolf was zoom and then and the last one was at ben's apartment and this one so i just want to say to the listeners at home yeah to the listeners oh well you know both floors of audio boom too he did the original audio boom floor the second floor and then both

i said the good and the dog shit yeah they're not gonna let me on the same floor three different audio boom studios um because they move from one floor to another. Yeah. God. We've been in a bunch of rooms over the years. No, that's wild. Fifth location. And I'll say, before, when we got here, David and I got here on time. And Ben got here on time as we were waiting for Griffin. Okay. I was- I went to the bathroom.

Not too bad. And I want to say to the listeners at home, should you ever be a guest on blank check the podcast and don't encourage them too much well i'm just saying should in some sure you know alternate reality you wind up coming to the office the czech republic is what we call it should it ever happen and if you needed to use what the british call the wc right david the loo the loo water closet you should feel confident that you will never run out of bathroom tissue or toilet paper there are and i counted 40 rolls of toilet paper in that bath i will say there was 40 rolls there have been some dramatic emotional conversation ongoing in the blank check text thread and i broke through it with a knife

By saying, by the way, I just bought $50 worth of toilet paper For the office You are the first record to come in here Since the $50 restock of toilet paper There was a Target deal I took advantage In the closet You wouldn't believe how much more

That was every roll I could fit in So there's more than $40, there's probably $80 Well, if there's $80, there. That was every roll I could fit in. So there's more than 40. Correct. There's probably 80. Yes. Well, if there's 80, there's now 79 after I've been in there. Well, hey now. Hey, come on now. Hey now. So to the listeners at home, a razor glass.

You're holding up. He's holding up a polar seltzer. two friends can have fiber from morning, noon, and night and just deuce their lives away and not worry about having an unclean rear end, this place is stocked. Thank you. Thank you. All this clapping we're doing. New toilet seat, too. We replaced our toilet seat.

It's like the Lion King on Broadway. Because a guest broke it. So many applause lines. Every scene's an applause break. Yeah. Because a guest broke it. So many applause lines. Every scene's an applause break.

Yeah. Jordan, you said that not only is Yentl one of your favorite movies, your favorite movie of all time. No, I never said that. Okay, but it is. It's sort of a fundamental movie for you. It's totally fundamental because of my age and my background. But David, just real quick. You asked me before. My background is I'm from Poland and I change sex and all that.

No, no, no. Because you a jewish suburban boy right um david you mentioned earlier uh i am i'm working at a new job yeah sorry right i was trying to it's this new website and then you decided to talk about our bathroom yeah uh the new uh website called the messenger.com it's a new news outlet it's new it just started in the summer so like not everybody knows about it but it's great is is was the first news story they broke we exist breaking news we're an outlet i would imagine so i mean they had to let people know that they were around front page of the first ever new york times is new york times created to tell times of new york and then they criticized themselves yeah so it's a new it's a nice place to go to read the news, and it's great.

And I read it every day. I learn about what's happening in the world of real news, like the wars and the Michigas like that. Sure. The president. There's a whole Michigas vertical there. And they've got stuff like the sports and the tech and all that. You write about the pictures. I write about

movies. I review movies. I write articles. I interview people. And I think people at home, if you're looking, you know, if you're tired of the New York Times, for example, they cost, you know, I pay. Messenger.com is free. Read Messenger instead. Free. There you go. Now, I'm sorry if I misrepresented how beloved Yentl is in your canon.

But the thing you did say to us is that when you were a child, you would play Yentl. Yeah, there's a little bit of truth to that. Yeah, because that's a little weird, right? You play Star Wars in the back and you get like a stick and pretend it's a lightsaber. Right.

Well, you gotta listen. So I grew up in New Jersey, this foreign land. Sure. In the 80s, right? So this came out December 83. Long time ago galaxy far far away i would have been i would have just turned nine wow so i mean i'm an old man return return of the

jedi has been in theaters for half the year when this comes out it's probably just right so talk of the summer we're done talking about from jabba the hut to rabbi nachman it's right there you know i mean we're thinking will babs sing sing Yub Nub during this movie? We're not sure. Maybe. Will it get changed to Jedi Rocks 20 years later in a special edition? So, you know, I am not a particular—my relationship with Judaism is a little odd in that I am not particularly—I don't come from a particularly religious family. Sure, it's cultural.

Cultural. You're the only cultural Jew who ever existed. A secular Jew? Who would have thought? The listeners, you know, you got listeners, people from Indiana listening. They don't know from any of this. I mean, we're huge in the flyover states. No, I mean, seriously.

They don't like when we say that. For example, my grandfather, my mother's father, was a heavy Jew, but, you know, didn't believe any of that stuff. Never went to temple. Yes. Didn't pray, you know. But yet any of that stuff never went to temple yes didn't pray you know but yet when the holidays came we did it and you know why is another story so when this movie came out it was a really but i went to some uh to school hebrew school on sundays right um although i never had a bar mitzvah um so it was like a big deal because it was definitely like

an inside baseball sure it's like this is a movie about jewish people yeah that big deal because it was definitely like an inside baseball movie. Sure. It's like this is a movie about Jewish people. Yeah. That's, you know. It was like we're going to hear things we know. There are Jewish artists out there, but this is about like the shuttle and like, you know, Talmud and things. Well, Fiddler on the Roof is, the movie comes out in 70. 71. 71.

Oh, yeah. That was already on VHS. And that was. So when grandma and grandpa and all the uncles and whatnot would come We would watch Fiddler on the Roof And finally we had another movie to watch Yeah, it's kind of like our second one So Dr. Zhivago also But even though it's not Jewish

But that was old Russia This is where we come from And it's another six or seven years until we meet Fievel Yeah, Fievel Old enough that I didn't see it first Because I was too old for that. And we all know he went west in 1991. That's when he did it.

So, you know, there were like things that you would, you know, in the movie Yentl, they're studying, they do prayers, and they talk about the Torah and the Talmud and all these things. So it was things that connected with us in kind of a private way. We were all sort of assimilated.

I didn't grow up in an all-Jewish neighborhood. It was assimilated Jews. But this was our little secret for the cousins and the kids on the block that were Jewish. But on my block, it was only Jews and Italians. And everybody got along. But we had our thing. They had their thing. Making it sound like the mob.

This thing of ours. So when it came out, yeah, it was a really really big deal now also this is the eight we are all sort of like secular new jersey nice liberal jews all of our moms were whatever wave of feminist that was second second wave feminists they're they they they they you know they're doing things they're there and course, all the husbands were cool with that. You know, at least my dad was supportive. Good to know. So, you're wondering, how did we play Yentl? For sure.

If I were to say to you who played Star Wars, you'd go, oh, you each grabbed a stick, and one was Darth Vader, and one was Luke Skywalker. You got it instantly. How would we play Yentl? And it's really weird, but here's what I You don't say. Here's what I remember. I remember, like, somebody would have to play Papa. Of course. And would have to be dead. Yeah.

And then somebody would have to, like, cry over the body. Pretend they couldn't hear anything. Yeah, pretend they couldn't hear. Stick cotton in the air. So there was that little scene that we would do. And then there would be, like, the scene of scene of like getting dressed for the wedding to the tomorrow night number yeah these are i mean these are uh look when you said you played yentl as a child i had a hard time picturing it first i was like was there a black box theater in the in the

backyard and you were like coming out you know all in costume we're definitely in the backyard and we're like kind of doing scenes so we would kind of not the scenes i would have guessed you would be playing the suit fitting for the wedding I would have guessed you would be playing. But this is what I'm remembering. The suit fitting for the wedding? A little bit. We would be singing— There's a little room in the crotch there. There would be a little—well, tomorrow night's a good—

Tomorrow night, tomorrow night, am I the bride or am I the groom? Sure. There'd be a lot of just pretending you're wearing a suit or a dress and whatnot yes it was in retrospect a ridiculous thing for us to do but we also used to play a big game we used to play a lot was do you remember the tv movie well maybe you don't the tv movie of gilligan's island when they get off the island yes what was that called i don't fucking know it's not called uh no because return to gilligan's island is the opposite of what you're back to the island it sounds like we've got rescue from gilligan's island we played that a lot that

makes more sense you sound like you're bored as fuck jesus christ we had no we didn't have go put a firecracker in a mailbox or something this is that's the goyish a half of you saying that we wouldn't do that we would play gilligan's island and yeah what do you want from me gilligan's island is one of those pieces of american pop culture that i know nothing oh really yeah like i never saw reruns wow my parents never watched it it's probably our best cultural export when people talk about like uniquely american art forms and it's jazz right the comic books right comic books sure gilligan you know who's is he our hero gilligan well he's like a lovable doofus yeah okay he's um what how what are some other gilligan archetypes i mean what are the gilligan archetypes uh uh gilligan's

got the hat i think i've seen a picture of the hat the skipper wears a hat uh professor marianne who's the skipper millionaire and his wife well the skipper a hat. The skipper wears a hat, too. Professor Marianne. Okay, but then who's the skipper? Millionaire and his wife. Well, the skipper, I'd argue the skipper's not the hero because he got him fucking stranded on this island. But is the skipper like the coach from Cheers? Like, is he the lovable older guy? Sort of. He's a lot more ornery because he gets worked up by Gilligan fumbling things.

And then, right, like, I'm looking at the credits here. Gilligan's a fool. And I see Thurston Howell III and I, like, I'm looking at the credits here. Gilligan's a fool. And I see Thurston Howell the third, and I'm like, I love him, but... I know that name, and I literally know it because, like, even though there are several layers

between me and Gilligan's island, it's penetrated enough as, like, shorthand for rich guy. He's like a monopoly man. Right. You know, first of all, you assign...

Ginger is the cutie? Everyone likes Ginger? Well, she's the... No, no, no. She's the buxom Marilyn Monroe. She's like an Anne-Margaret Marilyn Monroe style diva movie star sex pot.

Yes. And the professor is also on the island who has a very beautiful daughter, but she's a little bit more demure. Is this Marianne is the daughter? Okay. Professor Anne Marianne. Wait, Marianne's the professor's daughter? Yes. The professor?

Yes. I never knew that. And they're on an island? Who's the mother? Is anyone else on the island? I don't know. She's gone. Hi, this is Griffin recording an audio pickup on his phone about a month or two after recording

the Yentl episode. I have been informed by Alex Barron, who is editing this particular episode, that Marianne, in fact, is not the professor's daughter, and that I perhaps should record a correction, addendum, apology. Dog's sitting for my sister, and now the dog is barking. She's upset as well by my grave error. I was going to get dragged on main if I didn't correct this on Mike. I know, Luna. I know. I know. I know. She's not his daughter. I get it. I get it. But to be fair, it was always the read I got from watching the show. I did not read it as romantic, flirtatious relationship, which apparently most people did. To me, that feels crazy.

I went to the Wikipedia. I saw, in fact, that Marianne is not his daughter, but just a small-town girl who won a contest to go on the cruise ship by herself. The three-hour tour, I should say, before I make another mistake. So Marianne is not related to the professor, although it also seems like they never consummated their relationship. To be fair, I feel like the universe is fucking with me now. I clearly would have bet any amount of money that I was right. This is now my Baron Steen Bears. This is the thing I'm convinced has been changed as a psyop or as evidence of the fact that we live in a simulation. So apologies. I'm so sorry for my mistake I've had the privilege of talking to you for many years

And now it's my opportunity to step back and listen And also to tend to my sister's dog Luna Who for the last 24 hours has been Just chock full of diarrhea It's been a really, really fun day Who's on the island? Gilligan the skipper, millionaire and his wife of diarrhea. It's been a really, really fun day. Who's on the island? Gilligan the Skipper, millionaire and his wife,

a movie star, Professor and Marianne, here on Gilligan's Island. Do they ever meet other people on the island? The headhunters. Yes! They have to play against them. Why are they there? And then they can't help them get off? Clean crashes or something, and then they're able to escape, but they can't take them with them head so they would bring in guest stars by having it be like ah there's only room on the boat for us it was like the lost problem where it

was like we can't just keep having six characters with no outside like interference you need people in here to mix the pot up and so people would show up and get off the island and it would always raise this question of like how the fuck can they not get off the island there were also a lot of astronauts yes they would land right and then nasa would take them away my capsule's too small yeah and gilligan would try to all get them and he'd screw it up and he'd say like can you just when you get back to land tell them we're here didn't work out right there were robots sometimes yeah what was the name of i'm'm still very upset. You assigned culpability to the skipper for getting them

on that island. I do. There was a storm. He didn't handle it very well. He didn't weather that storm. It was a small ship. The SS Minnow really was not equipped. I know, but I'm not saying... Gilligan's not the hero of the show. It's his island. But I also wouldn't say the skipper's the hero. No.

No. There's only three seasons of this fucking thing tell um this is the thing you used to make 40 episodes of a tv show and they would run for 50 years right it looks like they made it to 98 so i guess they were long seasons right real quick tell and they made all these tv movies tell david about the headhunters no we're gonna move on from this. David. Yes. You like to treat yourself, right?

Absolutely. I feel like you're the one friend in our friend group, Blank Check Productions, that likes to treat yourself. I kind of do it. Here's some things I know about you. You love to get a pedicure and opt for the extra 10-minute foot massage with green tea-infused lotion. I mean, that's very specific but sure you refuse to make coffee at home because that fancy coffee shop is right downstairs the one that serves everything on pure ivory yeah that's me you opt for that extra legroom seat on the plane because your vacation starts now i do that also because i'm i'm quite tall okay well that's a humble brag you always

buy double at a sale because it's actually like saving money i'm gonna tell you i don't think i've ever done i named four things that you specifically do none of which are prompts from ad copy never well david if you treat yourself to the top options with everything in life why settle when finding a doctor it is my why is that when you settle it's a good point i should i should go for the best don't you want the extra leg room of medical care well i just don't know where to look so i just kind of you know wing it creek enter zoc doc hello hello i am zoc doc uh are you the place where you can find and book tens of thousands of top tier doctors all with verified patient reviews yes Yes, it is your health

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You could even throw in another 48 hours. Well, then we're going over. Well, I'm just saying if you're watching them. Those films are actually about two hours. Oh oh so maybe in a best case scenario you watch two walter hill buddy cop films 24 times um listen listen i've used zocdoc it's really easy to use you should too uh go to zocdoc.com slash check and download the ZocDoc app for free. Then find and book a top rated doctor today. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C dot com slash check.

ZocDoc dot com slash check. You said zownload by accident. Zownload it. You're getting Z-pilled. You should zownload ZocDoc. Zai. I'm going to close my Wikipedia page for Gilligan Island. I had such a good Gilligan joke that I forgot. now well you forgot it and maybe it comes back to you but it's just one of those shows like

family guy might do a joke about now i'd be like i don't really know what you're lucky because the headhunters which it's griffin's too fucking getting doesn't want to talk about it is is was it a very racist and offensive trope yeah i bet you wonder why i didn't want to talk about it so another cultural problem is in the pale settlement in like the turn of the 18th, 19th century. And if you were a woman, you're not allowed to read. We're oriental. Okay, good. Thank God.

You're not allowed to read. You're not allowed to pray. And if you're a religious Jew, all you want to do is read and play. But as in the rest of most societies, there's a strict gender divide. Sit in this corner, read your picture books. The men do X and the women do Y. No for serious thought that's not for you a young woman in the shtetl named yentl yentl um whose father is a rabbi and he's on the down low is teaching her about the torah which is like the big the big instruction instruction manual. Kind of a woke king? Yeah, yeah. Oh, for sure. Ultimate ally? Papa?

Yeah, Papa's totally woke. Yeah. So Yentl has in her a spark and a love of learning and knowledge, and she is resentful of the fact that she is constricted by her gender

and can't do this. Now, the story of Yentl was written by the... Okay, right. Yes. Isaac Griffiths. Because there's a difference between the book and the movie.

Right. In 1962, Nobel Prize winner. I mean, he wasn't yet, but he would be. Isaac Bashevis Singer publishes Yentl the Yeshiva Boy, which you have read. Yeah. It's a short story. Sure. That's what we talked about.

Singer, by the time... By the way, he lived... Two pages? No, it's 20 pages. Singer, at the time, lived in the Belnord Which is like right across from Zabar's He's got a block named after him I used to walk by it all the time So he was literally eating white fish while he was typing the story

Perfect And the minute it's published It's earmarked for a film It's sent to Barbra Streisand in 1968 She's coming right off of Funny Girl She had just finished Funny Girl and she was like Next part right here. Bang, bang. And what is said to her immediately,

you are already too old, too feminine, too famous, and also this is a thing that comes up a lot in the development of this movie, you just did Funny Girl, won an Oscar, you should not play another, quote, ethnic role. That is the word she

gets. Too ethnic, aka you can not play another quote ethnic role that is the word she gets too ethnic aka you can't play two uh jews in a row right and it's wild because it's like here's this undeniable like fucking first movie landing blockbuster hit oscar winner and everyone's like well you got away with it one time but let's start hiding the judaism a little bit let's not put it front and center and good luck trying that with Barbara. Yeah. Well, this is the thing. Streisand is like, absolutely not.

I want to do this. I won't be listening to you. She brings on Ivan Passer, Sherry and Ivan Passer, who had written The Fireman's Ball. Yeah. And he made some movies in America later. Right. And he also is like, you're too old, and you're too famous. He's hitting her with it as well.

At this point, she's like 25 or 26. Right, and they're like, you can't play a 16-year-old. What, is she crazy? And she's like, yeah, you're right. I'll wait another 15 years. She felt it was a universal story on the limits that are put upon a woman, and that is why she wanted to make it. She was frightened to do it herself at this time, right?

She could have in 69 maybe well it's even more hard to imagine a studio giving her the money i guess even with her celebrity like if she was like well i'll direct it myself yeah no yeah no i mean it's it is one of the things that gives this movie its juice i would argue it's the thing is like this is her fitzcarraldo 20-year battle to get this movie uphill yeah and the more she puts into trying to prove to people that she can make the movie and make the movie work the more she's like living in the headspace of yentl right being like i have to push through this fucking system the world says i can't and i'm gonna do it yeah and what's interesting uh so one of the

things having just read the story and i'll, there are two changes between the story and the movie. One is, the movie takes a character out, a very important character. I'm going to blow your minds. Avador marries somebody else in the story. Holy fucking. Who does he marry? Some, like, fishmonger's daughter. You mean later?

No, before he, before Anshul marries Hadass, he goes and marries... Like, you remember the scene in the movie where he's like, I can't sleep at night, I need a woman. So there's like a local woman, and she's like a tanner's daughter, so she smells of like, you know, bloody skin. And she's described as like, kind of like gross and obese and not fun. Come on, Isaac. What do you

want from me so she doesn't you so i have a door marries her and it's immediately regrets it so that's like a whole other wing of the story that's just cut out okay probably barbara cut it out because unfair to women right it also just sort of sounds superfluous i don't know that we need that unnecessary and then the other big change, which I really found interesting, and then as I was reading a little bit about Yentl today, 2023 online, is that the story, in a way, was very prophetic in the way it treats gender, trans rights, non-binary characters. I'm being 100% sincere. It's pretty damn modern. The story concludes with Anshul slash Yentl actually says, I'm neither one nor the other and embraces a trans lifestyle for good. Wow. Yeah.

And Barbara kills that. Barbara said, well, actually they kill it. Barbara altered it and said, that's not my story. My story is Yentl is. So Yentl truly becomes Anchal in the story interesting and embraces a sort of a gender non-gender fluid non-binary whatever you call it yeah and then lives as onchal forever um barbara's whole point of the movie as you were saying is i'm up against the system there's sexism in the world i want this to be a story about a woman overcoming

these obstacles and it's and in her head even though she's masquerading as Anshul, she's always Yentl inside. Whereas in the story, Yentl truly becomes Anshul. But there is something fascinatingly, like deeply queer about this movie. Oh my God. The way it examines everyone else's relationship with Yentl. It's not her own internal battle in the same way.

Yes, true. I mean, well, yeah, the way Avador looks at her in the water. And then the way that Avador looks at her after she reveals herself. Yes. And the way that she looks at same way. Yes, true. I mean, well, yeah, the way Avador looks at her in the water, and then the way that Avador looks at her after she reveals herself, and the way that she looks at Hadass. Yes. She's hot for Hadass. Who couldn't be?

Amy Irving? Are you kidding me? You beat me to it. Who doesn't have a crush on Amy Irving in this movie? She's hot for Hadass, and then Hadass is hot for her. It's a program.

He kind of crushes this film. And then, but then... And everyone's sort of like fighting their own instincts of being like, this is weird that I feel this way. Right, right. Even when Hadass thinks that Anshul is a man.

She still feels. She still feels weird because he's like kind of, you know, he's kind of a twerp. Right. And not maybe Tinkin, Abidor. Tinkin's getting furious about how badly he wants to fuck Tantor. Like that's a lot of this movie is. It's a lot of this movie is good. It's, it's a lot of like gay, gay panic, gay rejection.

There's so much in there. So could you imagine if Barbara had maintained that sort of trans thing? You talk about a movie, there were 700 things that shouldn't have worked. If you tried to pack that in there too, in 1983, when trans visibility and culture was very minimal. Oh my God, it would have just not, it would have just been crazy. Yes. And I do think like the other movies like this, the other stories like this, let's say, right? Any movie that is hung up on someone sort of high concept, some like it hot, Mulan,

Tootsie. There was another one i was just thinking of some shakespeare play uh yeah but where it's always sort of this like the ultimate reveal of it is kind of uh comedic yeah there's there's a sturges does this a lot farcical element of like what a silly misunderstanding yeah versus like this movie is really digging into the the feelings of everybody it's an emotional movie from minute one it has that tenor i feel like right that you know it's got a slowness to it yeah it's very like deliberate and obviously she sings in her head her feelings yes which is what a slow and deliberate emotional film would do yeah like a fat you know there's a movie where they're dancing around yeah right which would have like this more manic uh surreal musical energy this doesn't know you

just imagine you know and there's nothing to support this in any of the uh uh research uh that jj pulled up but i just find it impossible to imagine at no point does someone say to her yeah barbara good idea for a movie uh set it in college present day or you know like set it like find a different institution if you want to make the thing about someone who wants to learn and the women are restricted at the time or whatever like don't make it talmudic study don't make it this don't make it that like you could just talmudic study is sexy well but it's funny because that's the other thing is that barbara barbara's a proud jew you know i mean she wanted to make this this movie like that but and it's funny because um first of all you know we

haven't actually given the log line of the movie she wants to study she's not allowed because she's a woman so she cuts off her hair she assumes a male identity as you said her papa's sort of teaching her on the down low and then once he passes away, she has no other avenue for study. He goes the other style. So she creates a persona, Yentl. Yeah.

No, Anshul. I'm sorry. Yentl creates Anshul, the persona that will allow her to enter rabbinical study. And when she does, on the road, she meets a nice boy

named Avador, played by Mandy Patinkin, who is, Ben, what did you refer to him as? A total smoke show. Yes. This entire film.

Oh, my God. He's unbelievable. Very handsome man. Who is it? Always handsome, to be clear. He's supposed to be. Peak form. He's engaged to the rich man's daughter, Hadass, played by Amy Irving,

who's beautiful but not too worldly and he's forbidden to marry her because he has a brother who committed suicide blah blah blah so what's the term they use that he has the dark eye on his soul yeah there's some of this mumbo jumbo like old shtetl thing is like he's got the he's he's his family's cursed everyone's always worried about the dang evil eye in the olden days no matter what what the culture is, they're like, that evil eye though. And I'm like, come on.

So have fun. Look at it. Stare into it. Hadass has got to marry someone and Abidor is so heartbroken but he says, if someone must marry her, it must be my new best friend,

Anshul, because he's my wingman and I love him. You're basically my brother and it also feels like this sort of implication is like, that's maybe the way

to have like some sort of odd three angled thing going on. And also like he, you know, Anshul's not too much of a threat. Like, you know, it's not, I mean, I don't want to get too. But no, but that's why I think cutting the previous wife is smart. Because his, Avador's response in this is like, I'm never going to love anyone ever again. The only consolation for me is my best friend marries her and we still hang out all the time yeah and we get to i get to know about he does he's like what was the wedding what night like i just want to be adjacent yeah yeah um and then it all blows up in everybody's face uh that's the end so it always

goes these things it always has to end with but i lied to you but the thing about it about you know it's jewish there is a lot of jewish stuff in there they're in the yeshiva study and it's like you know there are things in a setting that aren't necessarily at that are that aren't imbued with that uh institution like i don't know what's a movie set anywhere like a movie about doctors right so like you there's like medical stuff in there like i don't know the paper chase is about harvard this movie is about judy but it's no i'm saying this movie fucking is judaism right this movie is is got it in a going into molecules i have i have a specific thing that i want to point out it's my favorite scene in in in life there's a moment

it's when uh so it's it's uh gentil as ancho we're just on the hoffman mine cart at this point just hold on hold on to your potatoes hold on to your potatoes they're uh they just met they met they were having soup and now they're getting on the on the on the cart and they're going to to beshev in slovakia whatever and um anshul and avidor are starting to to flirt but they're both men but they love each other they sense they they intellectually they connect there's fireworks right and so they say what do you want to do we have time to kill on this car what would you do play cards play backgammon just talk about chicks no what What one of them says, I think it's, Barbara says, would you like to discuss a page of Talmud? Okay.

This is her come on. Yeah. The Talmud, by the way, for those listening, the Torah is the main book of Judaism. That's like the instructions. Right. The Talmud is 10 10 000 footnotes and this is like all the special rules about how to be a good jew yes um and so one of the other schmoes on the car goes oh no not that kind of the um austin pendleton like character goes oh it's not austin pendleton but he goes oh austin pencilton yeah he

goes oh no not the talmud and then so avidor goes which page like you know he's getting really turned on now you're really talking about the talmud we're gonna and he goes and and he says what and she goes it's alan corduner by the way alan corduner topsy turvy and such yes the the sort of squirrelly glasses austin pendleton was busy you can make it so so she goes whatever you're reading like whatever you're reading the tell me and he goes this is my favorite you i'll state the premise you dispute it yeah so here's the deal they're assuming that no matter what topic they pick up i'll state the premise you dispute it they're gonna find a way to argue yes arguing is the purpose yes they're intentionally going into it with the object of disagreeing well i think much in the same way that so much of the juice of this movie is barbara's struggle to get it made matching with the character struggle one

to one there is a similar juice to mandy patinkkin one of the most argumentative actors in history it's not just right it's not just the way he argues it's right there's something in his eyes and his posture he's ready to argue yes and that's his energy on screen it's his energy in the process of working on things at least until now he's from a tiktok grandpa finally seems to have chilled out and the last like five years does interviews where he's like, what the fuck was I on about? He is a little bit self-aware about it. It's true. It's just funny how he's now fully a TikTok grandpa.

Correct. Right. No, he does seem to be finally somewhat self-aware about it. But yes, it's I think there was obviously whatever physical attraction that he will never allow himself to fully kind of admit he feels for Yentl in that physical form, but that clearly does exist. The thing that is undeniable to him that he is wrestling with is the intellectual antagonism,

the struggle, right? Yeah. Like, as we're saying, Amy Irving is also a smoke show in this movie. Yes, yeah. But, like, her whole thing is she's been trained to be

this very, like... She serves soup. That's all she does. It's Yentl's interior her whole thing is she's been trained to be this very like she serves soup that's all she does it's it's yentl's interior monologue song where she's like look at what a perfect woman she is she anticipates every need she does everything perfectly and like patinkin regardless of how she looks how well she fits into the model of what a wife is supposed to be at that time is always going to be more turned on by someone who gets to a fight about the tumble you know like that's the thing like she's speaking that love language and he's like well this is what gets me on yeah it's like yeah but pushing back and forth who would i marry in yentl that's a very tough question there's so many eligible like there's so many wonderful like oh oh oh okay your question is embarrassment of riches. Yeah. Okay. It's like, oh, Patinkin, well, there's an appeal of that.

He's so handsome. And, right, you would, many debates. And, right, it would be, like, Amy Irving, she's so beautiful. Like, Yentl, I don't know. Yentl, like you say, like, pretty magnetic in this film. She's a firecracker. She's got star quality. Maybe I want Stephen Hill in my life.

You know, he's got a lot of order checks coming in. Yeah. Yeah, Papa, he seems like a good guy. We all know the crazy stat that Amy Irving is one of only three people in history to get nominated for an Oscar and a Razzie for the same performance in the same year. Wow. Was it for this movie? So rude.

It is so rude. Now, the other two examples are Glenn Close and Hillbilly algae which makes perfect that's sure the razzie's got that one right yeah but but even if i agree with the razzie's in that case you're like that is the kind of performance that makes sense registering on both scales sure with both memberships yeah who would who would dislike her performance as hadass i don't get it that's what i think i think the Razzies were just being mean. They did a lot of strides. They were sexist.

The other one was James Coco for, what's the movie called? Yeah, we talked about it on this podcast, right? It's not called When I'm Laughing. Only When I Laugh. Only When I Laugh. Oh, I remember that movie. I've never seen that movie. James Coco, I enjoy tremendously,

is a very large performer. He's a broad actor. You could see him being a little bit of a cilantro, right? Where you're just like, some people are won over by this, some people think it's a fucking large performer. He's a broad actor. You could see him being a little bit of a cilantro, right? Where you're just like, some people are won over by this, some people think it's a fucking ham sandwich. But Yentl also, you know, Barbara was nominated for a Razzie.

Yes. And it was also nominated for worst musical score, which is like insanely good. Shut the fuck up. But this is what I think about Yentl, is I long knew it as something a little cringy. That was sort of its reputation to my generation. I love the 80s segment.

Can you believe they made this fucking movie? Right. It was seen as like, oh, yeah, one of Barbara's kind of like passion projects, like roll-eye. You know what I mean? And if you describe this movie, it sounds like the silliest thing in the world. Oh, for sure. There's no way that isn't embarrassing for everyone involved. It sounds like the silliest thing in the world. There's no way that isn't embarrassing for everyone involved. It sounds like a vanity project.

There are, I mean, right now, Yentl's sort of like, I don't want to say hip, but like, you know, younger film people are like accepting it for what it is.

It's coming back around, I think. But like as recently as five, 10 years ago, I personally shoved Yentl down the throat to some critics who like missed it and said, hey, I've always heard it was a joke. And I'm like,

some pretty, I'll tell you after, like some pretty prominent people. And they're like, oh my God, I actually, they showed it at a joke. And I'm like, some pretty, I'll tell you after, like some pretty prominent people. And they're like, oh my God, I actually, they showed it at the Quad. And when the Quad first rebranded, and they're like, oh my God, that movie's really good.

I was stunned. I always thought it was going to be a joke. You were shoving it down their throat like it was a bag of Turkish raisins. That's right. Can I get back to the cart though for a second? Yes. Okay, and then I'm going to talk about Yentl.

Okay. The argumentative aspect of it. I mean, there's this sort of the old joke. You know, you ask three Jews a question, you'll get six answers, right? I mean— Barbara, we have Barbara quote from, I believe, the book in the dossier that JJ pulled up, which is, you put two Jews in a room, you'll have three different opinions. Okay, great.

So that's what I love. That's in that scene on the card. They're flirting, and they're flirting by arguing, even even though here's the point i wanted to make earlier i'll state the premise you dispute that's what avidor says to anshul what if when avidor states the premise anshul agrees she still has to dispute it because that's what but she might actually agree but she has to know to argue it's the nature of argue. It's the nature of the sport. It's the nature of the sport. Later, there's a dissolve, and they're deep in it.

And Avedor says, when does day become night? And Anshul says, uh, sundown. When is sundown? Sundown is when you can see the first three stars in the sky. That's not precise enough. Why? She shouts why, and everybody wakes up on the car. when you can see the first three stars in the sky that's not precise enough why she sounds wide everybody wakes up on the like the robocop app where i'm describing every edit i will say someone

who's seen yentl like two and a half times it is kind of impressive to like describe these specific moments yes go ahead i just want to say you want to know how a bunch of kids in the backyard can play yentl this is how you play yentl yeah you dispute the text clearly and um you dispute the text i'm just saying that to me is very romantic that these are two you've never seen this in a movie before two leading stars falling in love by arguing about when the sun down did you have yentl colon dispute the text for the Atari 2600? You're just like... Dispute. And then there's the nude swimming scene where it's like, hide behind tree.

Like, he sees you. Right? You have to, you know... We're doing robot voice for Atari. Well, it's like Atari. I'm with you. I started it. We're on the same page. You're gonna jump. The Irving thing is so crazy to me

just because unlike those other two performances, her performance is so subtle, so restrained, so control. It's not like flashy. There's nothing embarrassing about it. And beyond that, you're just like the fucking skill of this performance to sell us on. Like she's the one who really has to make the triangle function. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's so reactive yeah where i'm like you give her an oscar nomination just for basically the technical challenge of like how much of this movie has to live in her eyes it is interesting that she got the nom not i mean she's a talented actor but they were rude in a lot of other categories to this movie right and yes maybe it was kind of a sort of right like good job in this like somewhat difficult role it's not a role you watch her in where you're like, when's she going to, like, sing or have some big moment. No, it's the quietest performance, but it's also the one that's quietly the trickiest. Her big moment is when she confesses that she wouldn't mind having sex with Anshul. Yeah.

And then she's growing to love him because he slash she is just basically nice. I mean, that's like the big shocker. So, anyway. Three dudes talking about Yentl. Okay, look. So, just to go back in time a little bit. Please. You're two of a 20-year development

process. Many people rewrite this script over the years. One of them is Singer himself, Mr. Isaac Sheva Singer, who says that rewrite this script one of over the years one of them is singer himself mr isaac isaac singer uh who uh says that um his version is very different from what barbara wanted to do uh in my script yentl does not stay on stage from beginning to end you have to make room for others to have their say this was him once the movie came out taking some shots at like barbara undid the movie with her own vanity right and making it all about her. Who else would you make it about?

He throws that charge at her. The film gets moved over to First Artists, which is the company that Streisand and Paul Newman and Sidney Poitier create as a sort of new United artist. Let's also clarify, at this point in time, she won't admit to herself that she wants to direct and also thinks, that's going to make my life so much more difficult, why even have that conversation,

right? Right. She wants to make this as a straight drama without singing directed by someone else. Yeah, it is certainly for years what she's trying to do. This is her original inception of the movie. Yeah, yeah. And certainly at times, every time it gets redeveloped, there's always the question of, could you sing?

Sure. That she's pushing back on. But her original idea was not. Here's the crazy thing though yeah she creates a goddamn production company yes she their her first movie with them is a star is born which yes is not that well received but is a huge hit say it david what it's a big fat big titty to hit yes it's that someone recently reminded me that that's where what i'm fucking quoting right robert devall in network i thought thought her first production was For Pete's Sake with Michael Sett.

Her first production with First Artist is A Star is Born. It's a huge hit. And so she's like. Not her first movie as a producer. Her first production. And she goes to First Artist. She's like, great. Can I cash my check now and make Yentl?

And still they're like, ah, I don't know. You Jewish shuttle girl what is this you know like they're still just like this is not commercial you're too old you're too famous right too feminine why would we put you in a movie where you don't sing uh it's stettle by the way the key please i'm sorry my ancestors are my ancestors from the fucking ancestors too are they from the stl i think so i mean my ancestors came over around 1900 like like many obviously because of the programs like and that's when this is set um from west 50 shtetl is where i think yeah they were from the carnegie delhi

no um my my family's from lithuania though this movie's set in Poland. It's sort of a generic... Yeah, that's all a big mishmash. She does, you know, things like The Main Event, which is her last first artist films. That studio goes defunct. Chris Christopherson. John Peters talks her into that movie. No, that's the second Ryan O'Neill teaming.

Right. Christopherson is Star is Born. Oh, duh, yeah. That's Peters just being like, do the simplest fucking do a what's up doc reunion right obviously she's great in what's up doc yeah right and by then it's like no she's offered uh eyes of laura mars uh-huh uh which eventually faye dunaway does um and uh uh then she's in the 80s she's free and easy and she's like i'm doing

fucking yentl. Well, the other thing is this whole period of time where he's trying to convince her to do the safer movies, there's the one she does with Gene Hackman as well where she gets paid

like $4 million. I've never seen that. Me neither. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just looking at it. It's got a dopey name. Because she's got, it's called All Night Long.

All Night Long. She's got so few films in her filmography. Well, she has a day job. I know. She's recording. I'm not on her case about it but then when she makes something like all night long or nuts you know

especially once it's the 80s and it's like she really doesn't do you're like why this one like well but nuts is her like trying to flex something different right all night long and main event are like she's trying to push this yentl thing up the hill. And Peters is like, you sign on for this. It's $4 million, easy money, in a genre everyone wants to see you in. They kept on, as she was struggling to get Yentl off the ground, offering her these alternative, like, this is simple.

And this is, right, once she makes Yentl, then she starts getting really, really selective about what she does. But the other thing, this whole point in time, I think it's at Wembley Stadium. Wembley, Wembley. I'm sorry wembly stadium national stadium of england they offered her a million dollars to play there peters is telling her john peters her you know a long time companion slash business partner slash rival whatever you know complicated hairstylist also he's like forget

yentl just go fucking play wembley stadium they'll give you a million bucks he says no they come back with two million she says no then he's like look everyone thinks it's pretty cool you turn down wembley they'll pay you 10 million for a vegas residency sure and she's like no there is when you're saying like she has this day job there's also such a fascinating relationship between i think her resenting yeah the fact that her stardom feels inextricably tied to her ability as a singer yeah as much as she loves singing and is proud of it yeah she's like i want to be able to do stuff as a film artist that isn't tied to that well this is the shocking revelation to me on page 440 of my name

is barbara the book she really never wanted to be a singer. She wanted to be an actress. Yes. And she- Used it as kind of means to an end. Accidentally fell into musical theater, Mrs. Marmelstein, and she did the jokey schtick. And then that led to Funny Girl. And she never really wanted to do it.

When she first was singing in clubs, it was just because she couldn't get a job. And she was a decent enough singer that she could. She's a pretty good singer. Yeah, that they just let her do it. And, you know, of course, she never had a singing lesson. Right. She went to one vocal coach once, stayed for 15 minutes, turned around and left. Yeah.

Because the vocal coach was telling her, you're pronouncing the words wrong. And she's like, I'm pronouncing them the way they're pronounced. Goodbye. And she left. I mean, I just. Yes, yes. Everything she did in Hollywood was like, will you sing? And she's like, no, I don't want to.

It wasn't that she didn't like singing, but it wasn't her goal. No, and I think she... It was a day job, in a way. And it just so greatly eclipses everything else she does. I just keep reading her in interviews, all the stuff we've been reading for the episodes, her using the term sing for my supper over and

over again where she's just like yentl i held off for so long not wanting to make a musical but eventually i realized i had to sing for my supper like this this special weapon she has yeah and even to some degree like prince of tides agreeing to do an end credit song for it yeah there's always this sort of final bargaining chip she has of just being like you could throw it down as a what if i sing will you let me do the fucking thing i want if i sing but you know it's sad because you want to be in her corner but yet i do think yentl the movie is so special because of the music of course you know i don't think it would work i mean maybe it would work but it wouldn't be as good you know um so the producers were right the studio fat cats in this case were right she should

the music did need to be there the music gives this movie the exact right amount of heightened reality to get away with everything that on paper feels like it shouldn't i would agree if she had made this as a straight drama at this age it probably would be knobsy yes and i think it would be knobsy and i also think if she had made probably what they would have preferred which was an all-out singing and dancing full ensemble musical that would have been a disaster she did find the exact right midpoint it's like almost as if yentl is perfect it's almost as if she says god made her neither this nor that barbara says music this is a realistic fantasy having the music makes it a fantasy.

Music is not real. People don't stop to sing. I mean, music is real, but okay. I think it's a rumor. I didn't want to make Polanski's Macbeth with people who have grubby, matted hair. This was a beautiful picture, a fairy tale picture. I wanted it to be a romantic film. It is gorgeous.

Certainly, right. I don't think people in the Städel looked this good and autumnal and golden, you know. It was like, you know, it was dire times, right? A lot of mud. The shots of the city, which I think were shot in Prague. I mean, it all looks like a million bucks. I mean, it's a very good, who is it, Vilma Zygmunt or somebody had to have shot it? It was shot by David Watkin, who is best known for, well, he worked with lots of people. He's best known for winning the Oscar for Out of Africa.

There you go. But he did Chariots of Fire, and he also did a bunch of movies with Ken Russell and Zeffirelli. Best picture winners at this point. Yeah. I mean, well, Out of Africa's a couple years from now.

The worst movie ever. Wow. I've never seen it. It's so fucking boring. Oh, wow. Do you put it bottom 10 of best picture or let's find out is there stiff competition simeron is david recently simeron stinks and then that's the movie because i watched every as you you know you're gonna say here right i watched every best

picture winner uh you look you watch simeron you're like it was a piece of shit then you look it up and they're like hitler's favorite movie. The worst fucking thing a movie could be said about it. You're like, all right, well, you know, fuck him. What was the biggest surprise for you? I have Out of Africa in my bottom 10. Really? No, it's not that bad. It's ninth from bottom.

It's a snooze. I mean, it looks nice. I haven't seen it in a while, but I remember finding it adventuresome. I mean, they're in Africa, for Christ's sake. Well, I thought they were out of Africa. Yeah, they're trending, you know. What was the biggest surprise is actually a great question.

Because obviously, you know, you watch like It Happened One Night or The Apartment or whatever. You're like, yeah, I knew that one was good. I mean, boring now to say that How Green Was My Valley is fantastic, but it is if you haven't seen that. It's sort of famous for beating Citizen Kane, but it rocks. But it's still pretty damn good. Mrs. Miniver is one of those movies that's like incredible.

Yeah, yeah. And I think people probably now mostly view as some kind of staid British period film. It's like not at all. That movie is like... Best Years of Our Lives is another one. If people don't know it, they might think the title is not very sexy.

True. But it's wonderful. And it's long, and it's a domestic drama. That movie is fucking unbelievable. The movie's amazing. That's one of the best films ever made, in my opinion. One of the great American movies. Mrs. Miniver is just one of those movies where you're like,

I gotta buy some war bonds. It's like 2023. It wins you over, sure. And, yeah. Is Ziegfeld your bottom bottom? Right at the bottom there is Around the World in 80 Days, which is truly a tough hang. Yeah. Like, you know it's going to be bad, and you've heard it's like three hours long and barely has a plot.

It's just like, let's land here. And it's like, hey, it's me. And you're like, it sucks. Sucks. It's like fifth tier Jackie Chan stunts. It's not even like. That was Arnold's first governor role.

I take it back. I'm sorry. His last movie before... Simran is bad, but Hitler's favorite movie was Cavalcade, which is another of those movie winners

that stinks. Great Ziegfeld stinks. Yeah. The Broadway melody kind of stinks. That's sort of like a technical thing. It's funny that I was thinking

just the other day, I was going to listen to... Green Book's pretty bad. It's down there. I mean, it's not very good. It eats the pizza. Look, if the whole movie was about a guy eating a pizza... Wait a second, wait a second.

How does this guy eat this pizza? Normal? One slice at a time? No, no, no. He eats the whole pizza. There are two ways I know to eat a pizza. You take one slice and you fold it, or you take a whole pie and you eat it flat. And I can't think of any other way in between those two finds a way green book finds a way

um green book is not that great but it's not that bad well the thing you learn artist is that as bad as i remember i have it fairly low i mean the thing you learn when you watch best picture winners is there's like there's 10 to 15 movies where they're you're like where you're like this is bad and then there's like a very solid chunk where you're like, you know, I can see what they saw in it. Green Book also got 10% worse the second it won Best Picture. Yeah, that's definitely not a tag it needed to wear. You know, maybe I'm just psychotic, but I feel like every, once it wins, like I kind of hate it. It's not a good thing for most movies.

Even like Lawrence of Arabia? No, I mean, now that we're, those of us in the biz that covered this. So you hate Moonlight and Parasite? Kind of. I just like, I'm annoyed. No country for old men? Well, that was still brilliant. But no, like, I just, like, I haven't watched Moonlight since the one time I saw it.

Gotta light it up. If it had not won the Oscar, like La La Land didn't win the Oscar, I watched La La Land a second time. I never watched Moonlight a second time. I watch Moonlight a lot. Moonlight's good. I think you would find a lot to love i thought it was fine time you know what i like more i like the beale street who can't talk that i thought was better than that's quite a picture it's really good first of all you got this street why should it talk no streets talk well so they're never on fucking beale street it's in harlem they're not

in memphis all day long they don't even know they're no one near beale street i just like you called it the beale Street cannot talk? Something like that. Like I said, I haven't... It's Beale Street. It's a good movie. Barbara sees Yentl as a way to reckon with the loss of her father, Emmanuel, who died when she was a baby, when she was 15 months old.

She says, All these years... She's the best. I was just looking for daddy in a way. And then I realized I was never going to get him. It was only through Yentl that I had a chance to make myself a father. So, that's how she's reckoning

with this sort of gender switching of Yentl. It's like, this is a way for me to get in touch with my dad who I essentially never knew. I've been hesitating. It's the kind of thing Barbara Streisand would say. Whether or not to say this just because it's such a basic-ass broad statement, but I do, I stand never knew. Yeah, I've been hesitating. It's the kind of thing Barbara Streisand would say. Whether or not to say this just because it's such a basic-ass broad statement, but I do,

I stand by this. The dominant theme of Barbara Streisand's work, her life's work as an artist, is love, right? And you could say that about a lot of people, but I just think in like a pretty primal way, almost all of her work is about like reckoning with the desire to be loved obviously so much of her work is about whether or not she's worthy of being loved and these sort of like overarching passions that cannot actually be met or satisfied you know right and she talks so much about yeah this like formative thing of her father dying when she was so young her mother was never really kind

to her no and her stepfather like didn't give her the time of day yeah so she's this child who grows up with like no love reciprocation the figure who she feels she could have gotten love from is gone from her life when she's basically too young to remember and she says this like it's the reason she was so effective as a singer without having technical training despite the fact that she's got good pipes you know that she's born with it whatever sure is that there was this like innate sense of longing she understood from a very young age that made her capable at 16 of singing like the great tragic love songs yeah yeah yeah and could connect to an audience and would do anything to please them right and like you know uh as star is born is a movie about love between two people who should not be together but you're like well

this transcends logic yeah right right and then like yentl she said is the movie about her trying to like reckon with her love of of her father who she didn't have and prince of tides is her trying to reckon with the love for her mother who was there but she couldn't access and then mirror has two faces is the movie about her being like can someone please love right and also i mean she wasn't i don't know if she was officially a producer but she was very involved in the story development on the way we were also yes i mean she's got a heavy hand in many of her non-directed right but most of them do boil down to that yeah yeah she should make a different kind of movie about i don't know like a bunch of jewel thieves or something cool but for green yeah um so the last thing she did the one with seth rogan yes yeah which rules which is a good movie it's

not bad oh it's funny she's so fucking good she's funny she's a a-list talent even if she's in like kind of a nothing movie i said this on the record i think she's a good movie star what year did the album guilty come out that was a huge i do remember that huge i feel like that was the 90s that was her popular no no it was with barry gibbs oh no i'm sorry it was the 80s yeah was it was it before yentl or after before okay so this is key and i think this plays into it i i was like i'm a little older than you um so i was around when the barry gibb collaboration album yeah i it was it was as big maybe it's just because i grew up in a jewish community in new jersey but it was as big as taylor swift sure it was john i mean it was everywhere every time you turn on the radio everybody had the record everybody had the tape

constant two sons woman in love and then the title track Guilty were just ubiquitous. You couldn't escape them. And it's good pop for the bossa nova beat. It was a little hip for Barbara. She wasn't singing show tunes. She wasn't doing quasi-classical stuff. It was pop music of the era, like a Lionel Richie type thing. It's a very odd album because it's a barbara streisand

album and almost all the tracks on it are just her barry gibb is on two tracks he wrote all the songs and produced it and is thus on the cover hugging her like what like imagine if like you know steve albini was like on the cover of you know in utero like hugging the bed you know like it's like this weird thing where he's like i I'm everywhere in this album, but it's her album. I mean, David, is it that different from Mark Ronson or DJ Khaled, who both basically have the same career? Huge talents. What do you mean? The album is my name.

The cover is my face. Other people sing every single song. But it's not Barbra Streisand and Barry Gibb. It's Barbra Streisand guilty, but here she is hugging Barry Gibb, and he's all over it. And and in my memory having not listened to the record in a long time i thought he was on every song he's on he's on the two of the songs he's on the he's on guilty and what kind of fool oh what kind of fool that's right that's a third hit oh my god these i mean i'm like i said

my man oh you go to the aunt's house the cousin the album was always on 24-7. It sold 15 million records. There's a lot. It was gigantic. Now, I guess what you had to say is when you grew up in the community, I did. Didn't win Album of the Year at the Grammys, though. Oh, my God. What did? Christopher Cross's Christopher Cross.

The one with the flamingo? Yeah, it's a good album, but that's a shonda. That's anti-Semitic and anti-sexist. Sure. But I'll say this. When you look at the 80s Grammy winners, you're like, these people were hired. I mean, I have made this argument before. Is there any awards body that has less respect within its industry?

No, there isn't. But I still sometimes marvel at their choices. We were just talking about there being, like, Best Picture stinkers. Yeah. But no one talks about, like, did the Grammys get it right that year? Do you know that when the Grammys first started, Album of the Year, like, of the first five, two of them are comedy records. Bob Newhart wins two times?

Button Down Mine and Bob Newhart won, and then Vaughn Meter's The First Family. Yes. And Vaughn Meter is mostly known today as the butt of a Lenny Bruce joke. Yes. Because Vaughn Meter had one job. He was a John...

I mean, that's stretching it, that he's well-known for being part of a Lenny Bruce show. I mean, well known if he's known at all. I don't know if that's blowing up TikTok. I don't think. Well, no. The people out there listening right now who are like in their cars. We have to get back to you.

You haven't seen the trend of like tweens mouthing along with the Lenny Bruce bit? No, no, no. The kids on the podcast right now who download. It's like radio, but it's like. We have to get back to you. I'm sorry. We have 10 more years of Yentl development to get to. I'm just telling you this.

So Vaughn Meter was a John F. Kennedy- I'm very open. Yes. We know who he is. Who cares? You guys don't. The people at home don't know. The people at home don't know.

Vaughn Meter in 1962 was the world's greatest John Kennedy impersonator. So he put out a record called The First Family. Humongous hit. And it sold a zillion copies. Yes, the biggest out. Taylor Swift and Beyonce put together. Yeah. And it was all he did was he pretended to be the president.

He wasn't even that funny. He just pretended. Look, he hitched his wagon to JFK. So JFK is shot. And that wagon got assassinated. JFK gets killed. This is true. Because society collapses.

Lenny Bruce, it's his first gig after the assassination. He gets on stage at a nightclub, and he's known for being, you know, irreverent and iconoclastic. He looks at the audience and goes, wow, Vaughn Meter is fucked. It's a good joke. That's an amazing joke. It is also completely true.

The guy's career was over in a day. Bill Hader and Robert Siegel have been trying to make a Vaughn Meter movie that I always thought would be incredible. Is that true? It's a fascinating story. But like literally it was like he probably got a call from his agent that day being like, well, your tour's canceled. Your next record isn't coming out. You are fucked, my friend.

Right. And it's like it's beyond cancel culture because it's a thing that was so outside of anything he did. But he had no other work in his repertoire. He had no other bits. And it was like, this guy went from top of the mountain, winning Grammys, best-selling album,

to tomorrow you are unhirable. He's working at a gas station. Yeah. Okay, so Yentl. All right, so she, in the 80s, yes, she's going to sing. That will help it get made.

She's going to connect with her father. John Peters says she's sitting cottage for her father. Sounds like something John Peters would say. I'm sure he tried to get an iron spider in the movie and was shut down. Orion is, you know, Heaven's Gate, you know, is a disaster, right? Suddenly studios don't want to hear about movies that cost over $10 million. That was Heaven's Gate cost $14. Let's also say quickly at some point within this development process, she she when it's been so long trying to push this movie uphill she ships to

i guess i direct it and hire a younger actress to play yentl sure right right um she says at one point she takes her name off the script because she thinks that's actually hurting yes her chance of uh you know developing the movie with a studio because they think it's gonna be crazy she does all night long with gene hackman uh likes the script yeah easy payday peter's the person who's closest to her is like the most loudly and critically repeating all the you're too old you're too feminine you're too famous you can't get this off and she shows up one day at their house dressed like a man smoking a pipe he thinks she's an intruder he says i almost punched her in the jaw and that's the

one where he goes like fuck it i guess you could probably pull this off but she also basically said i'm not making this with you you don't believe i need this needs to be my own personal expression it can't be part of our thing she finally gets united artists to budget the movie about 15 million dollars um i think it was actually ended up being made for about 12 It can't be part of our thing. She finally gets United Artists to budget the movie about $15 million. I think it was actually ended up being made for about $12 million. Elaine May took a pass. You know, a zillion other fucking Ted Allen, you know, Jack Rosenthal, who wrote a movie called The Bar Mitzvah Boy,

is brought in to co-write the screenplay. Apparently they fought all the time. I mean, this is always the story of Streisand. It's like so much collaboration, but so much fighting. Michelle Legrand and the Bergmans come in fought all the time i mean this is always the story of strice and it's like so much collaboration but so much fighting uh michelle legrand and the bergmans come in to do the music okay things are moving along they shoot it in the czech republic uh number one choice for avigdor oh i never i haven't gotten this part of the book dickie gear richard gear i i could see it Makes a tremendous amount of sense I could see it

She wanted a masculine Yeah he's not Jewish And feminine He's not Jewish But he actually He is Jewish Is he not? No he's played Jewish

He played Jewish in that movie Norman I think it's called He was great in it Why did I always think he was Jewish? No he's not Richard Gere

He would be good He would be good He's a Methodist from Syracuse, New York Obviously become a Buddhist. Yeah, he's a righteous man. And we shouldn't be so hung up on labels, man.

But he would be good. You know, sometimes you hear about alternate casting and you go, what? That's crazy. I could see it, Richard Gere. He was out on the idea of her directing. So he didn't want to do it. He said to her. He made a lot of bad decisions after American Gigolo 2.

He said, I would do it if it was you acting and someone else directing, or I'd do it if it was you directing and someone else acting, but I don't trust you doing both. Well, then she was right to fire him, because you've got to go all in on the train. You can't go half-assed. Katinkin had just played Che in Evita. He'd won a Tony on the Broadway stage.

He's not made a picture. He said he was initially offended by certain parts of the story. Like what? not made a picture uh he said he was initially offended by certain parts of the story um what he said he didn't like that the uh guys in the shiva were watching girls bathing naked i wouldn't do that uh he wanted to wear peyo and have his head shaped like he wanted to look like a true talmud student and barbara wasn't into it she said he looked like michelangelo and she didn't mean the turtle nope um but i don don't know For one it's like Yeah motherfucker You don't

You haven't made any movies Like you know Take the role This is what I'm saying He was always just The most argumentative Strong minded And so was she

Yes So they were good for each other Yes Having an animal cracker These are the Zodiac animal crackers That are still in our office Just don't eat it directly

Why are they Zodiac? Because David Toski Toski Are they like Crinkle it right into the microphone Like is it one Sagittarius? still in our office. Just don't eat it directly on mic. Why are they Zodiac? Because David Toski eats them. Crinkle it right into the microphone, please. It's like one Sagittarius. Put the bag inside the microphone. It's like, am I going to have a Capricorn? In Zodiac, he eats the animal crackers.

Oh, all right. I'm going to get one. You're so loud, Jordan. Everyone's going to unsubscribe. Okay, so I'm sorry. Henry Goldblatt. Sorry, sorry. Harold Goldblatt was supposed to be in this movie I think maybe He was the yeshiva teacher

They do This is an incredible story They do I guess a reading Is that what it is? They're just doing rehearsals At one point he just smiles According to Mandy Padinkin, at a table of Yentl actors, puts his head down, and

dies. Dies there on the spot. Has a massive heart attack. Patinkin says if there was a heart surgeon in the room, he would not have survived. And basically, they were all just like, wow, he just it was time to go, I guess. Patinkin also said, that's how I want to go.

Nice to see you all, and goodbye. You hold court. Yeah. At a table read. You give a good show. Yeah. We should also just say,

at some point, right, as the thing's moving back and forth between does Barbara Starr, does she direct, is it musical, is it not? When it's all finally coming together,

and she's like, you know what? I need to do this. It needs to be me. I need to play it. That's how it gets made. That's how I get control. Sure, I'm sure.

Everyone's like, you're 40 now. And she's like, don't worry, I'll make the character 26. The jump comes from 16 to 26. Hollywood does it all the time. Movie magic.

Usually with boys. And you know, she always historically did her own makeup. So, you know, she knew how to do it. I mean, this is the thing. It's fine.

In the reality this movie creates, I completely buy with their style. The whole thing is that the movie is so unreal anyway. My God, it's back. So far away. The other thing that has the movie is so unreal anyway. My God, it's back. So far away. The other thing that has been majorly reported on from her new book is that she says she keeps fighting with Patinkin,

and then eventually she's like, why are you so angry? She's fighting with Patinkin. Patinkin's fighting with everyone on set. He's a confrontational man. He's like, someone hands him a tissue and he yells at them. But that we know about Mandy Patinkin We do know that What we don't know is what she said in this book

Which is she finally confronts him And he said I thought we were going to have a more personal relationship I thought we were going to have an affair And Barbara is like I would never have an affair with an actor I'm directing You're married And I'm not attracted to you Rude

The third one I simply said I don't operate that way You're married. Two. And I'm not attracted to you. Three. Rude. The third one. The other two I hear you, Barb. I simply said I don't operate that way. Tears rolled down his cheeks. And I realized what this was really about. I wasn't paying enough attention to him as a man. Not the kind of attention he wanted. And so basically she was like, I'm going to fire you.

I'm prepared to replace you. I'm not going to let you destroy this. And he recommits himself and you know they push through it and he's wonderful in the film but uh it's kind of a crazy story that is nuts she wanted carol kane for hadass which is a fun thought i mean carol kane an oscar nominee at this point right like very specific type at that time though she was already loony because she was already in like she doesn't have crazy vibes at all what are you talking no no i meant like a loony character like a loony too yeah like she was on taxi already i don't mean like as a person i mean she was already

as she thought the movie could benefit from having comedic energy and having someone where she was like that's what she was looking for like carol kane has such a funny voice it could lighten up the film disagree and the studio said you cannot have three jewish leads they did correct they shut it down and she was like the movie's already so fucking jewish what is one that's not really the straw that's gonna break right back but amy irving is jewish yes but my guess is that she was hot she was such a beautiful like you know they were like all right well and she was still married to spielberg at the time no they don't get married till years later were they at least dating yes so having she was supposed to be willie scott she had tested yes she marries him spielberg in 85 right she's supposed to be but they've been together on and

off for almost a decade they had a very long... Because she's in Carrie, obviously. She's in The Fury. She had tested for Marion and Raiders, and then I think they broke up. So then they got back together. Then she was supposed to play Willie Scott in Temple. And then she gets off for this, and Spielberg's like,

you're not going to say no to Stryker. Yeah, which is fair. Vittorio Storato was supposed to shoot the movie. I think that's where you got that from. He was the first choice. They couldn't afford him. So much of this production, I think, was like, we have to cut where we can because it's an expensive movie.

But David Watkins... He did a great job. Did a nice job. She thought their styles aligned very well. And she only had nine days to do musical rehearsals apparently um and uh you know the choreography of this film is simple you know yes so like part of her contract on this movie is that the film went over budget or over schedule came out of her salary directly which it did she was like i'm just gonna keep going i'm fine to not make money on this movie she gives up

final cut which is big for her to do. Huge. As someone who had Final Cut when she wasn't directing. Exactly. And then when she's been in the editing room for a while, she gets this ultimatum of like, you've already gone to a million dollars over budget.

You have to finish this film in like the next few weeks or else we're taking it away from you. But whatever, they figured it out. And then Yentl came out. And then also Stephen Hill, isn't it? He is. But whatever, they figured it out. And then Yentl came out. And then also Stephen Hill is in it. He is.

Stephen Hill was the first on Mission Impossible before Peter Graves. And this is a funny story. He was fired from Mission Impossible because He wouldn't work on the Sabbath. He wouldn't work on the Sabbath. And when he got hired, he's like, look, I'm an Orthodox Jew.

I'm not like one of these Hollywood Jews. I'm a hardcore Jew. I don't work on the sabbath from friday night to saturday night i'm home praying and doing my thing and desi lu was like cool man you got it and then he was doing it it's like he was checking the watch they'd be in the middle of a shot and be like all right guys i'm out right and they'd be like we thought you didn't mean it right it's exactly what even though it was written into his contract yeah so, so he got fired. After the first season. I feel like today that would be a lawsuit.

I mean, I don't know. But he's great in that first season. No, and he had like a protracted period of not working in film or television, where he went back to theater and then was sort of revived around this period, and had this crazy second life on Law & Order. He's also great in The Firm. He's great in The F Order. It's also great in the firm. He's great in the firm. He's a great actor.

I mean, his whole thing in Law & Order was eventually you were like, you know, Watterson would be like, all right, we got to take the case. And they go to this like ancient man fused to a chair. He's like, yeah, you should do it. And you're like, retire, Steven, enough. Like, you know, come on. But he was playing Morgenthau like the real DA

who really never did fucking retire yeah he was a skeleton when he was like a Brando actor studio sort of contemporary who then like

he split on his he was fired from Mission Impossible and then he split he's like I'm done acting I want to be I think his I don't like this industry

I don't like I think he was a rabbi at some point he just like he left and then came back later. Him being a mummified corpse, 10 years past his due date on Law and Order, I'm just like, this guy didn't have like the 30 years

that should have been the prime of his career. Stephen Hill was allowed to be on Law and Order as long as he could be. I just remember at the end, the vibes were just a little sleepy. The actor who plays Papa in this movie. Yes, the actor who plays Papa is called Nehemiah Persoff. Who is similarly one of the first students at the actor's studio.

He also played... He's also Papa Moskowitz. Well, that's what I was about to say. There are no... Does Papa Moskowitz make it to America? I think so. I saw that he is in all the direct-to video fibles as well. How many of those are there?

He has this sort of... I don't know. Bluth really hurt his brand with those. With those. Wow. I'm emotional about it. Like the fact that there were like 13... I was rooting for Bluth.

13 Land Before Time. It kind of made it seem junkier. The originals are good. Bluth also hurt his reputation with some of the movies he seem junkier. The originals are good. Yeah. Bluth also hurt his reputation with some of the movies he put in theaters. That's a fair point.

But yes, no. No, he ruined his career because he made a Focaccia video game that you put a quarter into and you die 0.2 seconds later. What are you referring to?

Dragon's Lair. Dragon's Lair. Listen, I'm not particularly good at video games. No, but it looks good. It's so cool. I can barely play skee-ball. But you give me a video game, it's very complicated.

This one is really complicated. Even the real kids who know how to play video games can't play Dragon's Lair. The name of this actor who plays Papa. Sorry, Nehemiah. Sorry, I won't mention. Nehemiah. Kind of, yeah. Nehemiah Persoff.

He similarly has this late period renaissance where he does this. He does American Tail. He's in Last Temptation of Christ. Like, he has this great, like, sort of final act of his career. And then, like, late 80s, he's like, my health is declining. I'm going to retire and enjoy my final years. He died a year ago. Holy shit.

He lived until 102. 102! And yet his last credit is, his last on-screen credit is basically his twins in 1988. He plays the doctor in Twins. Apparently, so in Angels in America, the Mike Nichols...

He's in the group of the Meryl Streep rabbis. Right, there's a bunch of rabbis. But that's more of a tip of the hat. No, he has this robust... Tip of the yarmulke, I think. He has this robust 80s and is like okay i know well enough you know i don't mess time to leave and then just lived another 20 years and by his children's account his final words were it's about damn time enough of this already wow but he is so good in this and it's so important because it's like this is a limited screen time performance that needs to like hang over the entire film in a very like unfussy

unmannered way there is just like such an integrity and warmth to him that you're like yeah i'm not gonna forget this guy even when he hasn't been on screen in two hours griffin what's your favorite what's your favorite scene in yentl? What's my favorite? And you need to know that he can hear her. Yes. And watch her fly at the end of the film. My favorite scene, I do think the suit fitting is really funny.

The suit fitting is funny because it combines genuine pressure. Yes. You're actually quite tense in the scene with old Jewish tailors being like, I have to leave the room now for him to take his trousers off or whatever, which is fun. It's really funny and a good song a good song tomorrow night

right that that scene encapsulates everything the movie is capable of doing all at once um i think the scene where she tries to uh uh talk amy irving out of sleeping with her yeah on their wedding night's Something no human could actually do Reject Amy Irving That scene is really Yes It's funny And let's

Yes go ahead No I mean The fucking skinny dipping scene The skinny dipping scene I was waiting for that Her and Patinkin Back to back In the bed

The first Where she's like Talmud says We have to sleep back to back Right I like that scene a lot. I mean, almost any... I mean, just Patinkin going full fucking Brando.

Like, when he... You disrespect that Torah! Where it's just like, this shouldn't work in this movie. Like, this intensity. Obviously, because it's the excerpt from the book about... We just paraphrased Patinkin in the dressing room with the affair yeah there's been a lot more talking about it's gonna be season five of this show they're gonna do the affair season five patinkin and yentl so it's the first affair that doesn't happen um someone was

recirculating i think it's on the blu-ray which is out of print very hard to find the twilight time disc but barbara like keeps very active archives of everything oh yeah so her movie discs all have like extensive rehearsals right yeah and there's a clip that someone uploaded that was circulating around twitter which is straysand directing patenkin's performance during the take it is this final scene of you you disrespected the tone yes right and barbara in the take is going like tone down tone down right right which makes i that would be my direction right would be like this is this is just not in line with the movie's tone but it's so fascinating because he is clearly like the more he's the more she's nudging his performance, the more energy it gives him. Yes. Wow.

And you just realize how attuned she was to sort of performance. And she talks about, like, I actually loved acting and directing, the thing that most people thought would be so difficult

to do at the same time. Because it takes one actor off the board for me to care about, but also it allows me to internally direct scenes mid-take. Right.

I think not often... I think that's often frowned upon. Yes. No, I don't think in most cases she's describing what she's doing in this clip where she's literally giving him notes while the camera's rolling. I think she's talking more about

I can adjust my performer as an actor and in real time... Yeah, that's probably pretty rare. I just remember when I interviewed Clooney, one of the great actor-directors, never misses. Leatherheads. It's a shame he hasn't directed a film in 20 years. He should get back to it because his track record's perfect.

What if there were boys and they were in a boat? I actually have heard it's not bad. How could it be bad? Yeah, Bilga said. Yeah, somebody said that. It'll have come out by now. But we can say that Bilga liked it. Every Clooney-directed film that gets announced,

you go, how could that be bad? Right. That's a layup. I do remember asking him about, you know, yes, writing, actor, directing. And he was like, I really hate to, when I'm in a scene with an actor and I'm acting, then shift into like and you know like he and i get it it seems awkward or disrespectful or like some breach of protocol

yeah sure yeah right i don't know i mean a lot of the great actor directors were doing comedy which is like you know the thing about champlin i mean he knows what he wants out of it and then a lot of the great actor directors have a smaller role right you know or support, you know, you think about Champlin. I mean, he knows what he wants out of it. And then a lot of the great actor-directors have a smaller role. Right. You know, or a support, like, you know, I don't know, Sidney Pollack in Tootsie is perfect. If you put Sidney Pollack in a movie,

you're winning. Yeah. Yeah, you know. But I do... You mentioned, though, at the end, because we're talking about the greatest scenes, and I do think... What's your answer?

Well, I don't know, but I do... I want to ask you guys this, because you've been talking about Barbara, and I'm sure you've talked in other episodes about funny girl the ending of yentl when she's singing her guts out on a boat she's on the boat yeah she did do you find that to be like even better because of don't rain on my parade from funny girl what do you mean by even better you mean like i mean like the scene is great but having her be on a boat just kind of in evokes it and thus that she's on the front of a boat not just singing like singing with all capital letters in bold and underlined yeah and she did

this once before in funny girl where it was silly she's you know don't rain on my right i won nicky arnstein the gambler in this it was i'm coming to america to be myself because the old world sucks singer so singer hated the ending yeah well he was this ending yeah he was not always right he's always right oh no no he but like he really went after like i fucking hate her on the boat at the end because it's too optimistic it's too like sure sort of pat like oh don't worry like she doesn't have to marry patinkin or amy irving she can go to america where all people are free like you know there's a little bit of like a kind of like okay she'll direct i like it yeah right

united artists um i like it because it's barbara streisand on a boat singing like you're saying like i'm just kind of like i'm one over it does feel a little like Streisand on a boat singing, like you're saying. I'm just kind of like, I'm one over. It does feel a little like play the hits in a way I enjoy. Yeah, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. But I cannot deny that Yentl is cheesy. Cheesy might not be the word, actually. This is what I find interesting about it. Sentimental.

It's highly sentimental. Yeah, the ending of that movie, even when i was eight yeah got me for clint you know like and it's like embarrassing right that like right this movie's very sunny vision of her leaving the old country she's gonna have real freedom in america she can do anything she wants i i do think there's something intentional to as you're saying her repeating the iconography of one of her most famous musical numbers numbers where it's like well when this boat docks she's gonna get to be barbara streisand you know but also she's fully kind of coming to her power resonates a lot with american jews and i think like you know my grandparents

um you know were really big into america because all four of them survived most of their relatives did not yeah and when they got here by and large people did not want to kill them they're no cats so so like america was pretty hip you could just like you know go to the store not worry about being killed for no reason so it was you know that sort of added yay america thing is kind of ridiculous like you know there's still sexism in america when she lands but uh you know it's it's just i just feel it's a a change that really is is for the best also what year did uh neil diamond and the jazz singer come out oh yeah film with no problems whatsoever definitely no the same year right uh that one questionable scene one questionable scene calling that film questionable is very generous uh 1980 yeah so

that was in the next two that was a big movie We were talking about movies where you watch your grandparents Who were Jewish immigrants You know it was either Fiddler on the Roof Or the Jazz Singer And then finally Yenta All had musical numbers

Some breaking news Kimmel's back For the Oscars Also weird news. Destin Daniel Cretton leaving King Dynasty? That film seemed very stable. I just think it's a little bit of a bad move for Marvel

to get him off that movie. It's got to come out pretty soon. Did I just slip into a Marvel portal and enter another dimension? It was just funny where they were like, what's happening is Destin Cretton will not be making the film. And I'm like, right, the film. The film.

That will continue to exist. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Kang's on the way, folks. That's such a rude way to make that announcement. Right. He stepped down as director. He stepped down as director of a project that doesn't exist. Yeah, he stepped down because he pulled out the ladder.

Like, imagine if he was in the room. He'd be like, guys, Kang, this is it. hold out the ladder. And you also took a wrecking ball to the house. gang. This is it. I walk the streets and people yell at me, gang! I can't wait to see more gang!

Do you think they're regretting the fact that when they introduced that fucking character he got killed by a bunch of ants in his first appearance? Yeah. He gets swamped by ants? It's like,

watch out for this guy. Thanos doesn't get like knocked over by a bunch of butterflies in his first appearance. I think that's maybe number 50 on the list of things to regret right now. Anyway, Yentl. The tone of this thing. Where would Yentl fit in the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Everywhere.

What do you mean? She walked through every portal? I don't know. What if it's Avengers, the Yentl dynasty? They're like, we're pivoting away from Kang. Barbra Streisand is joining the Marvel Cinematic Universe. She should. Directing, producing.

I mean, well, listen. What other... Redford was in there? Yeah. Any other... Great question. Has anybody else from... Gould has yet to do a Marvel.

Tinkin has yet to do a Marvel, although on his TikTok, he's frequently asked to remember superhero movies. Yes. Chris Christopherson ever? I don't know, Batman? Like, you know,

Christopherson never did a, well, he was in Blade. Christopherson. Oh, Christopherson Blade. Pre-MCU, but still a comic book film. There's that great thing in the,

Blade, you gotta go get the vampires. Has Dustin Hoffman been in Marvel? Dustin Hoffman's not really been welcome in, like, big movies for quite a while.

Yes, he works in Italy mostly. Redford's the only one. I think... Well, yeah, because when Redford was in the Marvel movies, it was pretty fucking weird. It was wild. He's like, all right, Nick Fury, how are you doing? And I was like, Robert, please contain yourself.

Go to the mountains. Read your New York Times. It's a little bit embarrassing. All but certainly the last words Robert Redford ever will have uttered on screen. Loki got the suitcase. No, or Hail Hydra. Am I wrong about that? Oh, God.

Well, he's in Endgame. Yeah, but he says Hail Hydra. That's his last thing? Maybe I'm wrong about that. I think it would be funnier if he said Loki got the suitcase. Hasn't really not been in anything since Marvel. He does say it. What?

How many Marvel movies was Redford in? Two. And he hasn't been in anything he does say it what what how many marvel movies was redford in two two he hasn't been in anything since like that came out six months after old man in the gun old man in the gun was like this beautiful elegaic sort of goodbye to everyone was like this is your final film and he was like i don't know uh we'll see and the answer was they had to stay quiet about the fact that he was an endgame christ Oh, Christ. That's so humiliating. He steals his ID card and he's like, Loki! No, he definitely does say, Loki's got my suitcase. But I think... You know what?

I'm sure he was. I think he'll hide his last line. I take it back. It's right. It's just. It's right. It's right and it's just. No, I mean, let's stop.

They're movies, man. It's for fun. It's for entertainment. I mean, Loki's probably getting some fat checks. I mean, he fucking got a credit in Endgame. These are entertainers. Even Barbara,

she's an entertainer. No, look, Marvel, Feige should go, you know what, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. Full creative control

over to Babs. Get her off the bench. Have you ever listened to the director's commentary track on What's Up, Doc? Yeah. It's mostly Peter Bogdanovich

explaining the plot to Barbara and she goes, this this is crazy i don't understand what's happening it's just her not getting the plot at all now granted what's up doc is a little silly it's hard to follow at times too many suitcases but uh it's hilarious she should totally direct ant-man 4 she will oh the ants disgusting i do think that ant-man 4 is the direction to go after the failure of Ant-Man 3 and Barbara Streisand is the woman to fix the right

with Michelle Pfeiffer they get along they get their nails done I cannot imagine for one second that they would get along you are crazy how could you say that

how could you say that those are two incredibly you have one of my favorite Michelle Pfeiffer stories ever oh I can't tell that story oh god I love that story I tell that story to people all the time it's a little i don't want to tell it okay should i tell it it's nothing bad right it's not bad at all well it makes me it makes and this it makes me feel makes me feel a little dumb okay now hoffman doesn't like to present that side

of me so much i like to be kind of the guy who knows your real swag all right so um barb what's what's her name? Michelle Pfeiffer is doing promo for a motion picture that no one's heard of called The Family. Oh, the Luc Besson De Niro mob comedy. Definitely a movie she wants to remember. Yeah. So I go,

I'm doing an interview with her in the corner suite of the Mandarin Oriental Hotel in Manhattan, which overlooks Central Park. If you don't know, it's on the south west corner of central park it's probably the most one of the most expensive hotels in the city um beautiful she's on the 82nd floor it's toward the end of the day 4 30 p.m i'm probably her last interview of a very long day promoting what i think most people would agree is a piece of dog shit movie. So I get into the suite and it's a corner suite.

So she's got, she's like, picture like a diamond, like she's in the corner, a giant window behind her to the left and she's in the vertex, right? But it's the end of the day and so the sun is kind of setting, so she's backlit. So I see her as a silhouette. It's like a shot right out of mildred pierce or something you know and i go into the room and she's a big star and i like michelle pfeiffer who doesn't like michelle pfeiffer so i go in and i'm trying to be a little fun before i sit down my iphone and get my seven and a half minutes with her about what's it like shooting the family with luke bassan so i go in and i try to be like oh oh, look at this view. This is incredible.

And it is an incredible view. So I'm kind of like going behind her and kind of looking at the view. I'm like, hey, you can see all the way to the Heckscher playground. You can see the whole thing here. It's so beautiful. And she's backlit and it's quiet. And it's 4.30 p.m. End of the day, low energy.

She needs an espresso. So I say to her, oh, man oh man end of the day we're almost done hey it's so nice out maybe when you're done here you can go take a walk in central park it's so lovely and she goes i can't do that i'm like oh what do you got something to do come on it's so beautiful i'll go take a walk so she goes i can't walk in central Park. I would be recognized. And it got so sad in there. Right. I just love the idea of Jordan being like,

take a walk outside! Beautiful day! And she's like, I could never do that. No, they would see me. It wasn't like, she was not kidding around. Her heart was shattering because all she wanted to do was walk inside like hailey jill osmond and ai talk about not being able to go in the pool but then don't you say to her in in the story i tell people then you're like well you

could wear a baseball cap sunglasses you start giving her advice and she's like they always recognize me i'm such an idiot i had heard this story before it's so funny just the idea of you vipers in like her 60s and you're offering her notes on how to avoid like i said something like there's no lens it's big enough i said wear a hood wear a hood wear a hat wear sunglasses then i said, New Yorkers are cool. They're going to leave you alone. And she's like, I can't do it. And like, and she was sobbing practically. Right.

You had hit the hardest nerve. Yes. You had blown it. I had ruined it. And then I'm like, so, Luc Besson, what a visionary. She's like, no, he seems like a weird piece of shit. Here's a point I want to make about Yantel that I've been attempting to make for 15

minutes go ahead we're saying it's it's it's a a cheesy movie yeah or sentimental i liked whatever but i do think tonally i mean we're talking about this sort of odd picture book version of this story right where like the music which is mostly interior monologue. Almost entirely. If she is singing it on screen, she's singing it to no one else on screen. And she's the only character who sings. She sure is. Which is a very interesting take. And a thing that you watch is you go like,

huh, that's not a device other movies use. Are there movies that do that? But it's a really interesting storytelling device. It is. It shouldn't really work. Okay, what's your point? Sorry. But I do think what's your point? Sorry. But I do think

there's something to, as much as she's saying I didn't want to make the Polanski-McBeth version of this movie, this film does feel like it exists in a grittier,

more visceral world than a lot of other musicals, a lot of other films in this sort of fable pitch. You watch the opening of this and it does have that kind of like heaven's gate like holy shit they had to build a whole fucking town a lot of money on screen quickly yeah a lot of horses and carriages and you could you could like a circumcision just takes a little bit off the top yeah you could turn this into a non-musical

in just a few cuts and this is not a good example, right? I'm not a good comparison. Oh, your producers are like moles. Yeah, there you go. Okay. This is not a good comparison point, but I think often movies that are this aggressively earnest, especially when they involve like,

they're musicals, but they're not musical comedies. There's nothing to kind of undercut it. They like protect themselves from the earnestness by going all the way in and going like we're going so big we're pitching to the cheap seats we're going so like embrace the unreality like there's like the the greatest showman or something greatest showman is the exact example i was about to throw out where you watch that movie you're like i can't handle this fucking thing and it wears you down but even when it wears you down you're like i mean but this is like corny

cheeseball bullshit you love it all the emotions are pitched at a 20 right and i do think there's like this weird this film is aggressively nakedly earnest but it is doing so in a very kind of like focused serious minded way even when it's doing the sort of like comedy of misunderstandings it's pitched at like a pretty low decibel where there's such a confidence to this movie not going for bigger sweeping numbers bigger crying scenes yeah sure bigger comedy of misunderstanding hijinks shit where you're just like she was so committed to making this the exact way she wanted to to the point where she she avoided making the version of the film that maybe would have been a little

more accessible to audiences in the emotions being a little bit louder yeah if she had pitched in 1969 or whatever like it's a full-blown musical with dancing yes i'm the star yeah and it's and it's a it's a some like a hot comedy but she wanted to make a film about sexism and jerry is and she like takes the themes of it very seriously she takes the emotions of the characters very seriously she takes the chemistry between them and their longing and their feelings and wrestling with it very seriously and for how much this movie does or at least for a long time did have a reputation as like this very bizarre silly vanity project how did they ever make that as a? You watch it now and it's so much less silly

than you would imagine it being. Right. You're totally right. Yes. For how much she's not trying to like make it a kitchen sink drama. And also like... She understands the right amount of cheese

to put in there. The quote unquote silliness is more, yeah, how you would describe the movie to someone. Yeah, the fact that it exists at all, that she's a 40 year old, that she's trying to play a young girl um but it feels like on the level it's like the most sober version of these elements put together you could imagine in a not like there aren't too many shots like of herself looking you know there aren't like like she makes herself look i don't want to say she makes herself look unglamorous because barbara would never do that

it's a big thing in the dossier. She obviously needs to achieve a very specific look in this movie. She makes herself the she's the butt of the joke but still is Barbara. Both Streisand and Amy Irving said that she kind of transferred all that energy over to Amy Irving

where she was just like well this is a movie where I can't be too worried about if I look beautiful because I need to look in a very specific way and she was just like, well, this is a movie where I can't be too worried about if I look beautiful because I need to look in a very specific way. And she was like, she would just fuss over Amy Irving incessantly, which Amy Irving loved

because she was just like, I've never gotten this much sort of like hands-on attention from a director. And then said that basically transmuted into me being like, I feel like I'm in love with her.

So like, she's fostering an energy that actually translates into the chemistry of the movie. her. Yeah. So, like, she's fostering an energy that actually translates into the chemistry of the movie. Yeah. Of Barbara just being like, you're my little doll. I'm going to let you perfectly.

I'm going to make you up perfectly. I'm going to, like, wait on you hand and foot. Yeah. No, I mean, it shouldn't work. It shouldn't. And the first time I saw this movie, i was watching it thinking i was about to watch a movie that famously didn't work right i thought of this as a film that like yes it did reasonably well because barbara streisand is famous but it's a bit of a sort of like especially us as

jews are sort of like gentle i mean jesus christ yeah it's a little bit of a right baby you know and then i watch it and look look, you read Pauline. Have you ever read Pauline Kael's review of this film? Yes. You know, she was very pro-Stry Sand generally, but she was sort of on what worked about this movie in a way that I feel like few critics at the time were. I feel like critics at the time were mostly dismissive of Yonatan.

It was pretty dismissive. I mean, it was beloved by some, but it was still dismissed. She's basically like, the movie's funny, it's delicate, and it's intense. Delicate it was pretty dismissive and it was beloved by some but it was still dismissed she's basically like the movie's funny it's delicate and it's intense delicate like really good word it shouldn't be able to do all those things at the same time especially given that it's this kind of like glowing period piece right like it's not some work of realism or whatever and like you know this the keeping of the balance is why yento works and it's why patinkin can yell yes like because that feels of a piece with his character and the movie feels

able to sort of switch balances without it like fucking anything up if that makes sense like we'll get to it next week but like prince of tides for me is a movie that i find fascinating but i don't think totally nails the balance of everything it's trying to do whereas this movie i'm like this isn't even more difficult balance and like delicate is the word where i'm like she's able to hold all these things sometimes when it switches plots you're like hold on you know and it keeps doing that and you never quite but like and you have performances in totally different keys her grasp on yentl as someone who had obviously been trying to make the movie for so damn long feels more secure yes in prince of tides it more feels like she's barging into someone else's movie but kind of in a fun way do you know this thing about her editing process i don't know so this

is like a point in time where you're still cutting on film which means you're not able to sort of be like let's try like four different versions of a scene and like save them as different files on final cut you know and then go back and forth and see which one looks better you have to physically tape the things together so in order to try a different version you have to physically dismantle it and she would set up home video cameras in the editing suite so they would construct a scene or an entire, you know, like, work print of the movie in one way, film it, and then be like, great, deconstruct it, try something new so that she would have these, like, editing records of all

the different versions because she is very detail-oriented, very meticulous, but was just like, I won't know if I found what I'm looking for until I see 40 different versions of it. And I'm trying to like get myself out of the first instinct of it. Wow. And this feels like a movie where like, yeah, at times Prince of Tides feels like maybe not all of these things are

harmonizing. They might've gotten there eventually. Maybe. I like that movie. I also kind of like how I like it for its atonal qualities. But this is a movie where you're just like, she somehow got the balance right on fucking everything. Another thing I really like about Yentl is this sort of... Is how good she is devoted to her studies.

Yes. And also just the fact that it does seem a little bit magical realism. Like, it's a contained world. They only meet Jews. Yes. There's no gentiles like when they stop at the at the first scene she leaves her little shtetl and goes to the city and stops to get lunch and she meets a bunch of rabbinical students like there's there's no there's no

cossack like fiddler on the roof right there's always the cossacks fucking cossacks that are and in american tale except their cat except their cats and but there's no we're no cats in america no there's none of in the fucking start of the movie. There's no, I don't even want to call it a threat, just to pierce the bubble. It's a totally locked system. Well, and also, you think about, like, you know, some like it hot,

Mulan, Tootsie, the other one I'm fucking forgetting, Victor Victoria, to a certain extent oh you mean gen sort of gender bending yeah yeah sure but a lot of those there's this aspect of like the person becomes such an important figure that there are the interpersonal relationships that are going to be damaged when the truth comes out but also like there's a giant house of cards that has gotten out of control that's going to collapse, right? And this movie, the stakes basically stay within this triangle. I love triangle.

By and large, there's not the like, oh, a TV show is going to get canceled. They're going to lose the war. Yeah, the village will move on after the scandal is done. Right. It's not a big deal.

It's a big deal to them. Yeah. But it's a big deal to a handful of people. One more thing from Pauline Kael's review. She says when Streisand is playing a yeshiva boy, she's a wonderful, giddy little shrimp. I mean, I like that. And I wish someone would say that about me. You are a wonderful, giddy little shrimp.

David, thank you. That's the kindest thing that's ever been said to me. I've been waiting my whole life to hear it. Wonderful, giddy little shrimp. It's a shellfish. It's not kosher. The scene when they go to get cinnamon buns or something at one point in the movie. It's a shellfish. It's not kosher. The scene when they go, they go to get, like,

cinnamon buns or something at one point in the movie. It's during a montage. They go to Cinnabon. Yeah, they go to Cinnabon. They go to the airport. It's the Mall of America. They go to Newark.

They go to Prague. The Prague Cinnabon. Yeah. It's just a great little, like you say, the wonderful little shrimp. I mean, there's a scene of her just looking.

Amador's like, I love this, my new best pal. It's also like my little brother. I have no objection to her in the role as Yentl. Like, it truly doesn't bother me in the slightest. No, and I think she also creates a film world around her where you absolutely buy everyone accepts her as this person. Patinkin being this fucking unit helps.

Like, this just, like, overflowing with energy, masculine energy. Like, hairy and just, like, it's towering over her like that's a it helps emphasize her sort of youth you know and also by the way i'll make sure we post this clip on our social media when the episode comes out but the clip i'm talking about that's her directing patenkin mid-scene right yeah i i reduced it made sound like it's her just saying like tone it down right but she's really trying to like harness his energy and just redirect it in different ways and she's going line by line and the vibe i've gotten from hearing about other actors working with her is like when she's directing a performance and

internally within a scene within a take it's just by the choices she's making as an actor against them she's not usually in the middle of a scene breaking reality down and noting them but i also think maybe that's the way with the nature of the relationship and the dynamic as it had been set up with patempin at that point there needed to be that needling in order to get the thing flowing right it feeds the performance but don't most actors hate being directed let alone by your scene partner like it's amazing that he didn't storm off the set there's a category of people like fucking david o russell who's famous for doing that during every take right but there's to some degree yes there's something barbara understood about like much like these two characters together the tension the badness is is kind of the juice that needs to

be harnessed and her direction of of him is sort of just saying like, it's less of the anger, it's more of this, you know? Like, amplify this a little bit. Like, when is it aggressive and when is it defensive and when is it whatever? She's not telling him

the way he's doing is wrong, but she's sort of trying to do like energy shifting. And there's the quote in here in the dossier, let me find it. So she, like 10, 10 20 years later he's got an album and he asked her to write the liner notes for the back of the oh the mama lotion album

yes i think so right i was not gonna say that that quickly it might have been not maybe it's not but uh um hell of a record but he asked her to write the notes for the back cover of the album and she responds mandy you can't you put me through hell i can't write these notes for the back cover of the album. And she responds, Mandy, you put me through hell. I can't write these notes for you. I'm sorry, but I just can't do it. Why did you give me such a hard time? And he said, well, I was scared. Really? And then her line is, Barbara, I mean, in the book, I guess people have different ways of reacting to fear. I was scared, too, but it made me quieter. I listened more intently, but it was nice to hear the truth finally. And I said, I didn't know you were scared because you hit it so well and then you were so rude to everybody.

But I do think that's such a nice like encapsulation of what makes their energy in this film so interesting is as much as Barbara is like thought of as being a diva, you don't hear her stories about like screaming,

stomping, throwing shit. No, no, no, no, no. Just meticulous obsessiveness. Yeah, asking questions. Control. And she is like, she was on Stern. No, no, no, no, no. It's just meticulous obsessiveness. Yeah, asking questions. Control. And she is like, she was on Stern recently, did a really fucking good interview with him. And she was saying like, I'm so lazy. And he's like, what are you talking about?

You're Barbra Streisand. And she's like, it's the reason I've done less and less projects as the decades have gone on. I've worked fewer and fewer, on fewer and fewer things with more and more time in between each project. Because like, if I'm in the work, I'm so deeply in the work, I have no throttle. fewer uh on fewer and fewer things with more and more time in between each project because like if i'm in the work i'm so deeply in the work i have no throttle and so when i'm not working i really enjoy doing fucking nothing you know she likes having ice cream with jim brolin right whereas like patemkin is very like yeah is it's it's combative for For basically his whole career. So,

we need to just, anything else we want to say about Yantel before we play the box office game because we are running out of time. I think, I want to say, it was an important movie and I like it a lot. And I do think if anybody... I more meant any scenes in particular you thought about. But it is an important movie and I do like it a lot.

I think it rules. That is noting. I feel like if anybody. It does kind of just rule. It kind of just rules. Yentl just kind of rules. There might be people, I mean, if they've listened this far, they're probably have watched it. But there might be people who are fans of this podcast.

Yeah. And listeners of this podcast are enlightened people. But there are people who might say, ah, Yentl, that Barbra Streisand picture. Yeah. Who wants to see it? Go see this movie. It's really good. I highly recommend giving it a watch, even if you are not a musical person.

And I know some of our listeners are allergic. But I think this film is just different than what people think it is, where even if you don't like it, I think you will respect it more than you would imagine. Yes. I think that it plays incredibly well now. Yeah. Maybe it was a cheesier time and it felt, I don't know. Let's get into the awards legacy. Yeah, like the film comes out in November 1983.

It was a success. More than doubled its budget. Made about $40 million domestically. Got some good reviews. Pauline Kael probably the most. It was in the top 20 highest grossing films of the year. Yes. Which was a lower bar at that time, but yeah.

Maslin sort of slammed it in The Times and Streisand said that destroyed her. Well, now, Streisand's line was, I've spent 20 years thinking about this. How long did she spend thinking about my movie? Something like that. In a way, awesome. It also makes me feel like I've picked the wrong career.

I mean, look, I kind of want to jump off a bridge when I hear that, but she's right. As we've mentioned several times, Singer is sort of publicly critical of the film, so that's not really helping. There's some haymakers in the press. Which is, you know, not great news. But this is a movie

people have their knives out for and are like, this is going to be your folly. We're going to enjoy watching her stumble. And then the Globes welcome it really warmly. Now, the Globes

is an upstanding organization with perfect taste. Yeah. A lot of integrity. So, they gave it best musical comedy picture and they gave her

best director. She won best director. She was the first woman That happens... Go ahead. to win the they gave her best director. She won best director. She was the first woman That happens Go ahead. to win the Golden Globe for best director and it felt like a statement of

the Globes are doing this to set a precedent of her being taken seriously for the rest of this season. We're going to have a woman. At this point, Lena Wartmuller is the only woman who has been nominated.

Wow. Correct. There's not another one until Jane Campion. They dissed Lenny Reifenstahl. That's terrible. No, Sofia Coppola. Later.

That's probably later. She wasn't the best director. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. First Jane Campion. I'm an idiot. Do you realize also that the Globes

don't give their director trophy to Catherine Bigelow? No. Who do they give it to? Cameron. Sure. So it's Barbara wins and then there isn't another woman winning until Chloe Zhao. Globes are a great organization.

Perfect organization. So, yes. So she wins those Globes in January 1984. February 1984, the film just gets five Oscar nominations. None for Barbara Streisand. And, you know, she says it showed the sexism it's so transparent i would say it's more transparent with prince of tides but then i also rant on that episode i remember about like look there's five slots this is hard what's going on transparent on prince of tides only because

they're giving it best picture welcomed that movie so warmly in all other areas yeah billy crystal made a nice joke about well he likes, he likes to make that joke. This is the better directorial achievement, though. If you're singling out what he did as a director. I would agree. Now, I'm looking at the nominees. Yeah, who got nominated and I'll tell you who should have. Brooks wins this year? James L. Brooks wins for Terms of Endearment.

Good movie. Mike Nichols for Silkwood. Good movie, but he's probably already been nominated a bunch of times. He has, and that's not a Best Picture nominee, so he's sneaking in. Bruce Beresford for Tender Mercies. Good movie, but he's probably already been nominated a bunch of times. He has, and that's not a Best Picture nominee, so he's sneaking in. Bruce Beresford for Tender Mercies. A movie I fucking love.

Yeah, good movie. Which is a Best Picture nominee. Peter Yates for The Dresser, another Best Picture nominee. Okay. And Peter Yates is a good director.

I mean, yeah, I don't want to shit all over Petey here. So far, we've got Nichols and Yates can both take a hike. And then some fucking absolute hack called Ingmar Bergman for some piece of shit shit all over pd so far we've got nickels and yates can both take a hike and then uh some fucking absolute hack called ingmar bergman for some piece of shit called fanny and alexander

i love tender mercies but like barbara being beaten to a slot by bruce beresford is a little odd considering her stature in the industry although it does but i think some people just didn't like this movie yes and what And also ultimately won for SmackDown. What won Best Director? James L. Brooks. Brooks wins. The two directors getting snubbed

who are not Streisand, you know, the two Best Picture nominees that are not getting a director nom are Big Chill, Larry Kasdan, and The Right Stuff,

Philip Kaufman, which is kind of a crazy snub. I didn't get a nomination. Me and Philip both got snubbed. I gotta say, it's probably just as good as Yentl. Just as good as Yentl. Jesus. The Right Stuff the nomination i mean philip both got snubbed i gotta say i mean the right stuff is like

just as good as the right stuff is a masterpiece right stuff is a masterpiece big chill is more the kind of movie that gets snubbed for director because it's and bright stuff was like this is all talk a big financial finance because larry larry a financial bomb no but that movie bombed so hard they probably were like, well, let's not overpraise it with the Oscars. It didn't clear the tower. I mean, it didn't clear the tower. I think actually the right stuff

is actually better than Yentl. Apples and oranges. I like Yentl a lot. Apples and oranges. Sure, there are better films in 1983 than Yentl. But that is a weird best director category considering the movies in play. Peter Yates and Nichols.

I mean, my Nichols, I love my Nichols, but for Silkwood. Yates and Nichols. I mean, my Nichols. I love my Nichols, but for Silkwood? Yates, Nichols, and Beresford are all kind of soft nominees. Well, Beresford I would keep. That's a great movie. I'm just surprised,

especially because he then gets snubbed for Driving Miss Daisy. It's not like he himself was like a Hollywood favorite. No. Even at his most successful period. What was his big hit before Tender Mercy?

Breaker Moran? Breaker Moran. It was a good movie. Good work. Of course, eventually he made Mr. Church, which is based on a true friendship. It is. It's one of the only movies.

Let's see the box office game. Okay. November 18th, 1983. The film's opening limited. 13 screens. One of them, The Ziegfeld. You know how I know this? Because my mother and father went opening weekend.

It would have been amazing to see it. It probably would have been. Oh, my God. And apparently it was all, you know, second wave feminist Jews going out of their skulls. Telling each other to be nice. All right. My father tells the story. And, well, I shouldn't.

Okay. So, number one at the box office is. I'll tell my Bette Midler story another time. You have it on for my sixth episode. You'll be back. For the boys. And we'll put a pin in Bette Midler. For're doing mark reddell next um number one of the box office is a horror sequel uh-huh kind of a fun tagline i want to tell you the tagline of this film

warning in this movie you are the victim that's a pretty aggro 3d. Is this a 3D sequel? It sure is. Is it the 3D Jason? No. There was no 3D Freddy, right? No. No, I don't believe so. In this, you are the, it's not Jaws 3D. No.

Oh, jeez. Fuck. What, what, God damn it. November 83. It's got a 3D horror sequel. You are the victim this time. Is it like a slasher or is it like a force?

It's a force. It's a force. Yeah. The poster's insane. What the hell? It's not a poltergeist. Is it Amityville 3D? It's Amityville 3D.

Amityville 3D. Oh. The poster, which is just like the Amityville house, but there's like a fucking three-fingered claw reaching out of it. Yeah, yeah. Never seen Amityville 3D, Richard Fleischer film. I like Dick Fleischer. Famous old Hollywood director.

Yeah, he's great. Tony Roberts is in this one. Max. Because fucking Brolin took a hike at this point. So Amityville 3D, yeah, it's opening number one. Well, but like you say, the Genta was a limited release. Okay, number two, I just mentioned it. Big Best Picture nominee.

Terms? Generational film. Nope. Oh, Big Chill. Big Chill. Big Chill. You know what? The greatest thing about Big Chill is that the movie just ends.

It does, sure. But do you know why? They just ran out of film, I guess. No, they didn't. We talked about this recently. When were we talking about this? Because we did a whole... I love your death episode. That's fucking right.

There was a whole Costner coda where you were going to finally see Costner and the whole last ten minutes of the movie was going to be like flashing back and Kasdan thought it didn't work and so the movie does kind of just end. They just didn't shoot an alternate ending when they cut that out. But when you watch it, you're like, yeah, it works.

I like it. It does work. But it is abrupt. It works, and even though it's 83, it's a very 70s ending. The movie just ends. They're having oatmeal, and it's just like, yeah, and then it's over.

Number three of the box office. Oatmeal with raisins. Is new this week. It is a beloved cult classic family film. I've never seen this film. Goonies? No.

I've seen that piece of shit. It's not a piece of shit, but it's fine. Goonies is fine. It's not very good. Family film. 1983, beloved cult classic family film that you haven't seen. It's one of those American movies that is sort of like... Oh, A Christmas Story. A Christmas Story. Oh, no.

That's kind of all you haven't seen. Oh, you should see it. It's very good. It's very funny. I've never seen it. I know it's got a little boy with glasses. Yeah, it's cute. I think it genuinely is good. You do have to work a little bit to get past the meme-iness of it now, which is a problem with the culture and not of the movie. Yeah, yeah.

Obviously, it becomes a sort of cable classic. And also, that was a movie that only became famous because people would watch it from the 40-minute mark to the 62-minute mark and then go see it later. But it is a movie where every isolated scene is entertaining. It's very funny. It works playing on TBS or TNT, whatever, 24 hours a day because it's like every bit of this is... It's episodic. It's like Amaracord.

It's funny. It's like Radio Days. It's like Apollo 10 and a half. Keep going. My review of Christmas Story is it's like Amaracord with less titties. But a leg. Fewer titties. But a leg. But a leg. Fewer titties. But a leg.

But a leg. Bob Clark. Bob Clark. The black Christmas guy. One of the weirdest directing careers ever. Number four, The Box Office.

It is a franchise film, but it's outside the franchise. How do you describe this film? Oh, Halloween 3, season 11. Oh, shit. It's not that good of a movie, though. It's a Pink Panther? Nope.

Fuck. What other franchises fit into what he just said? Let me think. It's a franchise film, but it's... Oh, oh, Never Say Never Again. Never Say Never Again. Sean Connery is back in his toupee,

It's Better Than Ever, and Never Say Never Again, directed by Irving Kirshner. Not very good. Irving Kirshner. He worked with Barbara. Is that the one that Tully Savalas... No, it's Max von Sydow is in that one.

Klaus Maria Brandauer. Yeah, well, he... Okay, anyway, look. Someone plays Blofeld in it. I can't remember who. All right, number look someone plays blofeld and i can't remember who all right number five at the box office i can't say i know this film uh it was a it was a bomb okay it's well known for including brian adams's hit single heaven as part of the soundtrack looks like it's a dancing movie uh yeah it's like a baby it's hard to believe we're in heaven.

That song? Yes, and heaven is part of the title of this film. It's John G. Avildsen. It's not called Just Like Heaven? No, that's another film. I know, but that title could have been used a couple times. I don't know. It's an Avildsen.

The stars are Christopher Atkins, best known from The Blue Lagoon, of course, and Leslie Ann Warren. The other side of heaven A night in heaven Never would have gotten that Opening at number five You've also got Leslie Ann Warren You've also got All the Right Moves Married to John Peters

It all comes back together You've got Richard Pryor's concert film Here and Now You've got The Smuror's concert film, Here and Now. Sure. You've got The Smurfs and the Magic Flute. Hell yeah. I feel like we've talked about that before. That's like the feature length. You're saying hell yeah to that?

The famous tune hater, Jordan Hoff? Smurfs are... You like Smurfs. Smurfs get a pass. You like The Smurfs. The Smurfs get a pass. Smurfs are great. You've got Deal of the Century, really strange sort of...

That movie is terrible. It's not a very good film. But a very weird movie. You've got Deal of the Century, really strange sort of That movie is terrible, but a very weird movie. And you've got the fucking pure-ass masterpiece The Dead Zone. That movie rocks. Yes. Yeah, that's another round

of applause for The Dead Zone. You did it, Carney. Some might say that's the best Stephen King out of, well, The Shining. Some say that. The Shining, Carrie, but it's in the top.

Dreamcatcher. I think it's in the top five. It's up there. I think it's in the top five. It's up there. I watched that not long ago. That's the movie where Christopher Walken became Christopher Walken. Yeah, sure. And the ice is gonna

break with the cane, and he smashes the glass swans. The ice is gonna break. Him going on SNL to promote that film is the other thing that finally makes him. Oh, there you go. He does Ed Glosser Trivial Psychic, which is a sketch riffing on Dead Zone that starts the memefication of walking.

Yeah, prior to that, he was just a good actor. He was a talented Oscar-winning character. Who's the most serious actor alive? Playing the most haunted people. All right, that was Yentl. Yeah. Jordan's got to go see Wish. I got to Wish. Yeah.

I bet you're going to love it. Yeah. I would prefer if I was going to see the rock band Fish. Oh, sure. But instead, I'm going to see the Walt Disney picture,

Wish. I'm sure you're going to do that soon. Here's my prediction. Who's in Wish? I mean, it's a cartoon. Nobody's in it. We're done. Wrap it up.

I had a winner, Ariana DeBose, Chris Pine, and Alan Tudyk. It's the origin story of the famous wishing star that's run across the history of Disney pictures. Really? It's a Disney

internal IP? The star falls out of the sky. That's absurd. You know, ladies and gentlemen in the audience, Griffin H. Newman was invited to see Wish with me this evening. Yeah. And he was gonna come. Yes. And right before we started recording

yeah he said uh jordan i'm busy i don't want to go for this oh writing a check he's writing a check to hoffman he's making a check not blank it's making that's very true is what he's doing um i said i'm probably i you know i said 50 chance i get asked to take my little cousins to this there's no way i want to see this movie two times. David Sims earlier alluded to the fact that I've seen him. Today's a Wednesday we're recording. I've seen him every day this work week. I've seen David on a Monday. I've seen David on a Tuesday.

I've seen David on a Wednesday. David, if you want to meet up tomorrow, I'm busy. Yeah, I'm busy too. But Griffin I see once every 11 months. Well, it's been six months, you said. I feel like I'd seen you more recently. I want to get lunch. That's the thing.

We keep saying, let's do lunch. Okay. Let's do lunch. You around next week? No, it's Thanksgiving week. Thanksgiving week next week. And that was my one good week. Booked up.

Actually, I might be free Wednesday. Who's busy Wednesday before Thanksgiving? And I say to you, let's get lunch next Wednesday. We're certainly not recording. What kind of food do you want? I like a matzo ball soup. We'll get some matzo ball soup. Where's the diner in your neighborhood?

Oh, my God. The Neptune? Wrap this episode up. I got to go. I swear to God, you're making diner plans online. The Neptune Diner. Let's go to the Neptune. You don't need a rocket to get there.

Hey. The Neptune Diner in Astoria is fabulous. Let's do it. All right. They don't have matzo ball, though. They have red chowder. The chicken noodle? to get there. Hey. The Neptune Diner in Astoria is fabulous. Let's do it. All right. They don't have matzo ball, though. They have red chowder. The chicken noodle? Yeah, yeah.

Fine. All right. That's going to be great. Great. It's going to be fantastic. I'm not seeing Wish tonight. Here's my prediction. Two hours from now, we'll get a text from Jordan, all caps saying, should have had Smurfs

in it. You know, Blank Check with Griffin and David is a great podcast. Well, thank you. I know I listen, and it's been a thrill to be on Griffin and David is a great podcast. Well, thank you. I know I listen, and it's been a thrill to be on here. Clicking our own podcast. I was going to say, it's been a great time to be on. I'm always a fan. You know, before I come on the show, I'm reminded that you guys have, what do you call it, a Reddit, right?

You got kids in the Reddit. Don't remind us. Don't encourage them. So I go in there, and I put my name in the search. Sure. I've got two fans. Very vocal. Yes, I know the people.

There's like two Hoffman boosters and I don't know them personally. I hope they're like, but like frothing when's he coming back? Crickets from most of your, you know, 99.9% of your fans don't want to get involved. It's a refined taste. It's a refined taste.

It's for the refined palate. But those two guys. You're a Hall of Fame guest. Oh, listen to that. David's taking a shit. David is. Well, he was aware there's so much toilet paper. Is there really more in that cabinet over there?

Ben, do you want to just slide open just so Jordan can see? Do the visual. The visual. I'm not exaggerating here. You see it poking out there right there? I see a cot. Do you bring girls up here? What's going on?

No, don't even. It's a folding chair. It's not a cot. Look at that. It's amazing. Yeah, it's another 30 mega rolls, which means it's the equivalent of 120 rolls. $50. I spent $50 American dollars on toilet paper.

That one lasted two weeks. That's the IMAX of toilet paper. That's the IMAX of toilet paper. Jordan, is there anything you want to plug that isn't our podcast, the one you're on right now? I mean, listen, we're all just getting by in the world. We are. You know, I write about movies. I try to live my life.

You were the one with the heart out, my friend. I have to leave right now. I try to live a righteous life. Good. I love my wife. I love my friends. And in all sincerity, I joke around with David sometimes. He's a pretty good guy.

I joke around with you, Griffin. Ben, not the typical Ben. This is Ben Prime today. My first time meeting Ben Prime. Very nice to meet you. And to the listeners out there, thanks for everything. You're a mensch. Bye.

A round of applause for Jordan Hoffman. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. David is getting into his car and driving away. He has his car parked in the studio. We didn't even make a joke about this movie being shot in Czechoslovakia. We mentioned that it was, but yes, the Czech Republic. I mean, eventually. Blank Czech

Republic. Yeah. David, jacket is on, bag is on, Jordan's adding layers. Ben, Ben Frisch, thank you for filling in again. My pleasure. Thank you, man. Doing us a real solid. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and

subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for being our associate producer on this podcast. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Bardi for being our associate producer on this podcast. Thank you to Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our artwork. JJ Birch for making it through all 900 pages of the Barbara memoir in time for these episodes.

Thank you to AJ McKeon, Alex Barron for our editing. Give me the hurried up signal. I got to thank everybody. Joe Bum, Pat Reynolds. I said them. Laymon, Gary, the great American novel for our theme song. Go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit,

including blank check special features, our Patreon where we do film series. Terminator. Terminator. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Tune in next week for Prince of Tides. We already recorded it it Katie's on it the Queen of the Carolinas

and as always Jordan is currently using yet another roll of toilet paper