Blind Plea - Listen Now: Podcrushed featuring Ariana Grande

Episode Date: July 4, 2024

We’re excited to drop in your feed today a special episode of Podcrushed featuring the prolific, amazingly talented, and incredibly sweet Ariana Grande. In this first part of a two-part conversation with the pop icon, the crew has a wide-ranging conversation on childhood, Ariana's Broadway origins, and getting to act alongside her best friends. Podcrushed is the podcast where hosts Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, and Sophie Ansari bring you stories and conversations about middle school - from childhood crushes, to battles with body hair, to schoolyard scuffles. The results are sometimes awkward, sometimes heartwarming, and always relatable. For more on Ariana Grande’s music, Eternal Sunshine, BTS tidbits on The Boy is Mine music video, and Wicked, listen to part 2 on the Podcrushed feed here: https://lemonada.lnk.to/Wp2OXBfdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonade. My grandpa loved to sing too. Every time we finished dinner, he would sing, Good night, I hate to leave you now, but have a good time. At the end of every single dinner. So sweet. Oh my gosh. That's really charming.

Welcome to Pot Crushed. We're your hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Nava. And I'm Sophie. And I think we would have been your middle school besties. Patching plans to sneak into R-rated... Okay, who am I kidding? PG-13 rated movies. Well, if you've clicked on this episode,

then you might know what's coming. I suppose that's true for all of them. The one thing that's different... Amazing start! This is a great start! Just wait! There's more! We have today the one, the only Ariana Grande. You might know her most famously from starring alongside me in a music video.

From the Boy Is Mine video. I played the cat. Yeah, she played the cat. Thank you. I don't know if you remember that part. She's got a new record out. It's been out for a little bit now. Even newer, down the pipeline, is Wicked.

So we're talking about her whole life, but you know, we get into Saturn, you're going to want to know about that. Oh boy, do we. New depths of Saturn. New depths, yeah. Please, please stick around, You're not going to want to miss this one. Why, hello there. It's your old pal, Sarah Silverman, and I'm back with a brand new season of the Sarah Silverman podcast. On my podcast, I am talking about everything.

Politics, yeah, we get into it. Favorite sandwich shop in LA. I know a few spots and I'm gonna tell you about them. I'm also going to be talking to you. I will be reacting and responding to listener voicemails in real time. Let me tell you, things can get weird and I love every second of it. Weird is my comfort zone. The newest season of the Sarah Silverman podcast is out now wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Stanley Tucci.

What would you do if you were no longer welcome in your own country? That's the question at the heart of our new audio series, which tells the true story of an Italian Jewish family split apart by Mussolini's racial laws. Can love survive fascism? When the time comes, do you stay or flee? I love this story, and I think you will too. Pack One Bag features Stanley Tucci. Listen to Pack One Bag wherever you get your podcasts. All right.

Well, in addition to introducing my socks, we have with us Ariana Grande. Thank you. Hello, thank you for having me. Thank you so much for coming. I'm so excited. I'm on it and I'm excited. We're so excited.

We're just gonna dive right in. We typically start around 12. From what I understand, you had, now this may or may not be true. We'll know if our research is it? Okay. Wait, wait, wait, before we actually dive right in, I do think we have to address how different this episode is.

No, it's so different. From all of our other episodes. I've seen them and I'm like, where are you? In what way? I'm not sure what you're talking about. In which way? Well, I walked in and I- Is it my socks?

That's it. It is, we can see you penned socks. It's that. Yeah. Yeah, Arianna was like, is this a new setup for season three? Yeah. It's a new setup for you. Yeah. That's like, is this a new setup for season three? Yeah. Like, it's a new setup for you.

Yeah. That's crazy. That's so nice. Well, we're doing sort of one-offs this year. You know, we just sort of like, we vibe to our guests and you warrant a giant wooden studio built in probably the 1980s or 70s. Wow. When this was necessary to record music.

I'm deeply honored. It's so cool. I was like, wow, rebranding, what's going on? Like this is so fun. All wood, all the time. Matthew Hesse is going to cry when he hears you say that because for his episode you had like that makeshift wardrobe where he was like, pen are you trapped in IKEA?

Yeah. It definitely looks like a kill room. That little cottage of mine that I have not redecorated, it's a place that I typically am in for the remote interviews when we're on Zoom. Yeah, how fun, but this is extraordinary. This is a much bigger kill room. Wow, thank you.

I'm glad you thought of me for this. Thank you so much. Wow, I can hear things differently. I mean, out of the headphones just sounds, yeah. I've always loved recording studios. I absolutely love them. And I'm interested in like your relationship to that, but we'll get into that first.

Is this true or false? Did you have a screen name? Jim Carreyfan42? That's true. Is this true? Absolutely true. Well, he was 42 at the time. Okay.

So that's where the number came from because Jim Carrey fan was taken. So I had to put a number and it was 42 because that was his age. And I believe that year I, I should stop, but I'll tell you, I had a birthday party for him. For him? For him.

For him. Was he there? No, he couldn't make it. But I was. So what's his birthday? Do you remember? I actually don't remember now, but the weirdest thing, the most cosmic thing is that actually happened to be when I announced my album, Eternal Sunshine, which is obviously named after the movie, and I announced it on his birthday coincidentally. Wow. And you still don't remember what that date is? No.

I don't remember it still. Something with a seven in it. Something with a seven. Ariana, who came to the Jim Carrey birthday that you hosted? My friend Aaron Simon Gross. Okay. I love it. He's still my best friend.

Amazing. Yeah, yeah. Did you guys do like Jim Carrey themed things? No, we just watched the movies and I think my mom had like Jim Carrey themed things. That's very cute. We had like the mask. My mom had like little like paper masks. That's very cute.

So your mom was very supportive? Yes, she's always been very supportive of all of my obsessions. So what age was this though? Are you, were you 12 or 10? I don't know. I think I was, well, if he was 42, I must've been, I have no idea. I don't know how old he is now.

So I don't know. But you had a screen name. But yeah, that was my screen name. So like that was. So I was young and it was like one of my first screen names. I remember having like. Tell us a little bit about you because I feel like not many 10 or 12 year old girls would

choose that as a screen name. Yeah. Yes. I was always a little off. I was always a little different. No, but you remember the days when like you would have a few screen names? Yeah. Absolutely.

Yeah. That was like the cool thing. In a way, messages and like rainbow fonts, like certain people could change the fonts. It was in that era. It was like that, those days. Yeah. That was, yeah, that's where we're starting. That's where we're starting. Well, do you think that that, I mean, you know,

your relationship to comedy is, to me, a really interesting one. You know, I don't think you've ever left it personally. I feel like it's in your music, in just the right amounts. You know what I mean? Your appearances on SNL are pretty show-stopping and phenomenal. Thank you.

And then of course, you started not much later than 12, like doing these comedy shows. Was that, was, was, I mean, what did you think of comedy then? Was it, was it your favorite thing? Was it related to you as a performer? Yeah, I think, first of all, thank you. That's so nice.

But I loved comedy first. I mean, I loved singing first and foremost, but I remember that comedy always gave me a different feeling than singing did. Singing, I think, takes itself so seriously, and I love laughing so much. Like there's something about making a person laugh that's like we're comfortable, we trust each other, we're here, like laughter is just the best thing in the entire world to me.

So yeah, I don't know. I, it was always something I loved a lot. And then I think when pop sort of took over for a while, I lost a little bit of like that light. And I kind of like, I a while, I lost a little bit of that light, and I kind of missed it, I think subconsciously in a very big way. So yeah, I don't know, looking forward to kind of, I'm glad you said that you could hear it

a tiny bit in the music, because I don't like to take things too seriously in some of my more playful pop songs. I think it's a nice place you know place to put some comedy sometimes But yeah, thank you. I don't know. Yeah, I know I really I really I really hear it especially I don't know if you remember this the first time I DM'd you This well, yes, it was about this and but what but what I the way I shot my shot I Said that that shut up is one of the best like pop openers of an

album of the last probably 10 or 20 years I really love it and it's so funny but it's so well crafted thank you and that to me again like that you could go on SNL as you do okay so fine so somebody can be funny but that you yeah to me I just I've always heard it in the music so I think it's really cool it's not easy my mind I couldn't believe that you had like heard to me, I've always heard it in the music, so I think that's really cool. It's not easy to do a pop-up. That blew my mind. I couldn't believe that you had heard my music or I've been watching you forever. I would have to live under Unrock, which I nearly do,

but I still heard your music. Thank you, but also to lead with that, like that's so, I was like, whoa, this is too much for me. Thank you, though. Penn, also the interesting thing about him is that he's incapable of lying. So if he's gonna write to you with something that he likes that you've done, you know it's true.

It was really hard for me to start doing ads at first in the podcast. I was like, I had to figure out how to get behind this ad. I remember one time when I didn't have the time, I took like an hour to record. Don't say it right. I won't say it for which one. I won't say it for which one.

It's always the ad. But it took me an hour of record. Don't say it, Brett. I won't say it for which one. I won't say it for which one. It's always that. But it took me an hour of time I did not have. Yeah. Anyway. Because you say, what's my intention behind it? Where am I coming from in this ad? It wasn't about acting. It was like, I'm saying something about this product

that I need to believe in some way. Otherwise, like, oh, can I say this? His out is usually... And that's why Sophie loves. Sophie's like, so now what do you think about? That's so funny. We'll have to get that. All right, and I just want to say one thing.

It'll take us out of the time period, but there's an SNL skit you did where I think it was like Tidal was having a power outage or something and you had to do all the different singers. It's one of my favorites. It's one of my favorite skits, and I watch it like honestly, like 10 times a year, and I show it to anyone that I'm trying to impress.

Like, I know we're gonna laugh together, you know? So there's like a cute guy, I'm like, have you seen this skit? Oh my God. Yeah, and anyone that I want to think that I have good taste in like humor, and it always hits people, always love it. And a lot of people don't know you're that funny,

so it's like unexpected. But I just love it, it's so good. Thank you. I was so bummed because some people thought that I was lip syncing in some of them. Cause you're that good. No, that was Shakira. I was like, I'm upset, but thank you.

I was like, well, I'm offended and thanks. No, I'm kidding. But yeah, thank you, that's fun. It was, I love offended and thanks. Yeah, no, I'm kidding. But yeah, thank you. That's fun. It was, I love, I love doing SNL. I, yeah, it's so thrilling. It's so much fun. And there are so many things that get cut too, that are so ticklish and it's just fun to be in that building.

It's so fast and everyone's so creative and funny and brilliant. It's just, it's fun. Your recent with Bo and Yang, when you guys did the Moulin Rouge bit was- Crazy. Asterical. The most fun I've ever had in my life.

I almost didn't make it through any of it. I love Bowen Yang so much. He's so brilliant. He's so beautiful and wicked. I can't wait for people to see. Oh, he's a wicked dude. We have a whole section of that. Okay, sorry.

We gotta jump back. Sorry, sorry, sorry. We're in this room, we have- My other screen name is Bowen Yang Fan. At 30, I don't know. So let's go back to you growing up. Like, was your household, I mean, because you're just,

I mean, even more now, it just feels to me like it's so clear you're a performer through and through. Was it a performing household? I mean, where does it come from? What were your parents like? Yes, so my parents are kind of polar opposite, but if you know me, it kind of makes sense knowing them and then how I came about because my mom is like business.

She's also very creative and talented, but she does. I mean, she's the CEO of a company that designs and manufactures like telecommunication equipment, like PAs for like ferries. And yeah, so it's very different. And my dad is sort of the more creative one. He does architectural design and photography and graphic design and he paints. And so I'm kind of smack in the middle of the two of them.

But my brother was in a lot of theater and in a lot of school shows growing up. He was on Broadway. And so it was a very theatrical household, even though the only two who have pursued it are Frankie and me. But my mom was always singing and doing karaoke nights. And my dad was always singing as well. And my grandpa loved to sing too. Every time we finished dinner, he would sing, good night, I hate to leave you now, but have a good time.

At the end of every single dinner. So sweet. Wow. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's really charming. Yeah, he was the best. Did any of them have anything like a voice like yours?

I mean, I think so, but I love them. I don't know. My grandpa had big belt, like he would sing along to Frank Sinatra with all his heart. And my mom has a beautiful voice. My dad loves to sing and has a beautiful voice. And he's a beautiful painter. My aunt Mare is in a band as well. My aunt Mare is a musician. My uncle Craig, they in a band as well. My Aunt Mare is a musician.

My Uncle Craig, they have a band. That's on my dad's side. And my cousin Hallie is a singer. So lots of art, but my parents were not pursuing it. Was that an answer? Was that anything? I don't even remember my question, but I asked a question.

Sorry, I'm long-winged. That made me curious because you said Frankie was into performing, he was on Broadway. And I feel like if you have an older sibling who is really good at something or pursuing something, sometimes that makes a younger sibling shy away from it. Oh my gosh, no, my idol. I looked up to him so much and I still do. He's amazing. But he went to Mühlenberg and I loved seeing him in his shows there.

And even before then, he went to Pinecrest and I would see him in those shows too. And yeah, I was always his biggest fan and I was like, I want to do that. That's so sweet. You've talked a lot about your Nona. Your Nona is on your new album. And I'm curious, what was your relationship with her like when you were little? Like how much of an influence did she have in your life? Oh my gosh.

I mean my grandparents, my whole family has always been so supportive, but in the healthiest way, not pushy. Like my mom wasn't a stage mom. She was the first person to like get me where I wanted to go. Like if I was like, I would love to go to this audition. She would take me there and make sure I was prepared and support me. But she never told me that it was what I should be doing because she thought I was talented or because, you know, she was like, are you sure? My family was very supportive, but very protective as well. But my grandparents, my Nona actually saw the ad in the newspaper

to sing the national anthem at the Panthers game and she took me for my audition so no one was very supportive. Were you eight or nine then? I think I was eight, yeah. Wow. That was your first, was that your first audition and first performance? I think that was my first public performance, yeah. I was eight, I don't know what I would have done before.

Other than playing the bumblebee in my school play which I did. And I worked a nice little bit in there, I improved it, I didn't tell anyone I was eight, I don't know what I would have done before. Other than playing the bumblebee in my school play, which I did. And I worked a nice little bit in there. I improved it, I didn't tell anyone I was going to do it. Got a big laugh, I was very proud. That's brave, Eddie. Yeah, I think I was just supposed to fly by and exit. And before I did, I ripped the little stinger off of my costume and I stung the lead character and I flew off unprompted.

But I'm talking really young. That's improv and also like ruined a costume. That's bold and I'm sorry. This is my public apology to the costume department. I've been waiting. The preschool, sorry. You should know that I once sang the national anthem also at like a local, it was a AAA

baseball game in Washington state. Why haven't I seen this? Well, it's not on record. He paid someone to bury the footage. This is not a lie. I forgot the words in the middle. Oh my goodness. It's a tricky one.

Doesn't it feel like it can kind of like go in circles? It can, it can fake you out. Wait, so what did you do, Penn? Did you hum? It's a tricky one. Yeah, doesn't it feel like it can kind of like go into a... It kind of can fake you out. Wait, so what did you do, Penn? Did you hum? No, so I really just, in the middle, I just forgot that word.

Which word? I don't remember at this point. It doesn't. No, it doesn't at all. He just doesn't remember the word. There's an English word that I've never... You know, I'm facing like out into the sky and the mountains and the whole crowd is behind me. How old are you?

I was a bit older, so I was 13. Oh no, that's funny. It's quite embarrassing. And I just paused. It didn't freak me out, actually, and then I just went... And then I hear the whole crowd chanting the word, but because it's a crowd, it's very hard to make out.

It's not helpful. And so then I actually said, what? That's best case scenario. And then I finally heard it and I go, oh, thanks. And then I just finished. That's fabulous. I need to see. Both teams were so supportive.

They were just like, yeah, you know, slapped me in the back because they assumed that I was mortified, but I have to be honest, like I wasn't really, I wasn't really because I don't know. I would have thrown up for sure. I'm sure anybody would have. I definitely would have. You definitely would have.

The one person who was not supportive was the person who hired me for it. She was like, well, I guess it could have been more have. You definitely would have. The one person who was not supportive was the person who hired me for it. She was like, well, I guess it could have been more prepared. You're a kid. Yeah, I mean, you should hire us at the word. That is deeply traumatic. You can't say that to a 13-year-old. Yeah.

Can a viewer please find this footage and DM it to us? It's going to be an uptick in Google searches. Penn Badgley anthem. There's definitely no footage. This isick in Google searches, Pennaduly, Anthem. There's definitely no footage. This is before phones. Oh, man. Oof. Before all phones.

He's trying to throw us all phones. Yeah, before all. Before taking off all cameras. Before taking off all cameras. Yes. That's so sad. You didn't film the camera. I haven't been prevented yet.

So hold on. So I'm curious. If you can recall, this is the genesis of you as a performer here. We're building a story. Do you recall either afterward feeling that I want more of this? Were you just like, eh? I'm wondering if you have any core memories there. I think I didn't have much of a relationship to the song at the time. I think I was eight and I was like, these are the words, just sing them.

Just perform it. You know, like you got off a stage or the ice or whatever. I loved it, I felt so happy and proud. And the funniest thing about that video to me is how I like, A, I feel like I look exactly the same as I do in that video. Like that's exactly still everything. I didn't even know there's a video.

There's a video, it's really funny because when I'm done, the way I whip my head and walk away, it's too crazy. It's a little too much. I liked it a little too much back then. It was really funny. I loved it.

I had so much fun. I wanted to do it again. Did you get hit by a puck? I did. I got hit by two pucks, but I'm a big Panthers fan still. Nothing can take me away. Where did the puck hit you?

Once was the palm of my hand. Because you were like this? Yeah, because my dad went to cover me. And they went to, and I didn't know what was happening. So I went like this and it got me here. And I don't remember what the other, I think it was the same thing. Obviously the other time, that's where my memory went.

That's wild. That can be so dangerous. No, yeah. But they really, oh my gosh, they put me on, they got me tons of ice and they put me on the Zamboni and I was like, I'm not hurt anymore. I was like crying. I was crying and smiling at the same time. You were already learning how to smile through the pain

of the performance. And boy, did I need to learn quickly. I'm kidding, joking, but no, I was like, and then yeah. Dark, that was dark. No, I don't think it was dark at all. It reminds me of something you said on the video, which we'll talk about later. Oh my God, our video shoots?

Yeah. Oh my God, our video shoots? Yeah, yeah. Oh my God, wait, what did I say? Well, you said that you had, I think you hurt your foot somehow. Oh, yes. And we were just talking briefly about how you're constantly getting these, not you, a performer is constantly just sort of getting hurt.

And you just gotta go through it. And it's just not a priority. Even mid-take, I'm like, it's just not a priority. You're just even like mid take. I'm like, I cannot acknowledge this right now. And when we're done, I'll be like, hi, may I have a bandaid? My pinky's on the ground. And I'm like, certain things just aren't as important

when you're in a take or something. I don't know. I fractured a rib in the middle of a take and I was just like, finished until the end and then afterward I was like, I can't move. Yeah. That is wild. And the sickest part of me was like, I can't move. Yeah. That's wild. And the sickest part of me was like,

oh God, I bet that was perfect on camera. Yeah. I'm like, I bet that was great for the scene. Fucked. So at eight years old, you're singing the national anthem. You're like, I love this. Yeah, I loved it. What's sort of the next step?

I know eventually you make it to Broadway, but what kind of happens in between? I mean, this is the thing with you, it was like so fast. It was fast, but I'm thankful that it wasn't too fast because I was still home with my family for like those years that I'm, you know, I was a teenager when I was on Broadway, I was already 13. So between then I did a lot of like local family theater

and community theater and I was always on stage. I loved acting and I loved singing and being a part of any show that I could find. But yeah, then I went to audition with my best friend, Aaron Simon Gross, who was at the Jim Carrey birthday party. For 13, the musical, and we got it together. Like he was, we both got it together.

It was so fun. Yeah, so I got to do my first few jobs because then I met Liz Gillies, who's one of my best friends in the entire world. And then after 13, auditioned for Victorious and she and I got that together. So I've always had support and friendship around me. But yeah, I didn't start too young.

I feel like 13 is, even though, you know, working at a young age is like, we can talk for 75 hours, there's much to say, and we'll get there, I'm sure. But, you know, it was nice to have a friend and it was nice to have not been seven or eight. What about, you were young. Yeah, I mean, I was about the same.

So let's see, I first started doing community theater like eight and nine. And then I got my first like- What was your first role? Will and Grace, actually. I had like five lines on Will and Grace. In community theater? Oh, sorry.

No, I thought you made that up. I thought you made that up. I'm not in your, ever. No, I thought you made that up. I'm not in your... Ever. Well, outside of school was Winthrop and Music Man. Cool. You know Music Man? A little, enough.

You love musical theater. I love musical theater. I think I do love musical theater. I'm not very well acquainted with musical theater. It could be the reason that I don't love musical theater because I loved the experience, but I did not. Maybe it wasn't the right show for you. It wasn't.

And then also my audition song was I Can Show You The World from Aladdin. Fabulous. Or Whole New World is what it's called. But it starts with I Can Show You The World. And oh my goodness, just I think of that audition process and cringe. However, I discovered that if it's done at its best

when I saw Rent, I loved Rent. I loved Rent. You know, I was like a 20 year old. Yeah. I could say, okay, when it's done well, I do like a musical. I have a core memory around Rent. My whole family was obsessed with musicals.

We would sing Wicked all the time, Rent. Were you at Glinda or Elphaba, may I ask? Oh, Glinda. Oh my god, fun. You don't have to say that. Popular is the best song. Oh my gosh. But no, but we would sing Rent all the time. And I had no idea what the songs were about.

I was like eight or nine. And my whole family went to go see it on Broadway, but you weren't allowed to bring a like 10-year-old. So I had to go see the New York City Ballet, which I fell asleep in with my aunt while they were all at rent. It was horrible. Oh rent, yes.

Wow, that's devastating. Nothing's crazier than loving rent at a young age, being young and loving the songs. And then growing up and being like, whoa. That's what we're like. Whoa, holy shit. One song glory. Whoa, whoa. Honestly, all I about. Holy shit. One song glory. Whoa, whoa.

Honestly, all I knew about Rent was the South Park episode. It was like eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight. You know that? Yeah. And I didn't realize how much of a specific kind of lampoon that was because I turned to my friend at the time who I was seeing it with after like four or five minutes and I was like, are they ever going to stop singing? And she looked at me like I was seeing it with, after like four or five minutes, and I was like,

are they ever going to stop singing? And she looked at me like I was crazy, and she was like, no. No, first time. And then I, you know, for the next 15 minutes, I was like, what have I done, what have I done, what have I done, but then, you know, it won't make it. Yeah.

I don't want to delay us, but I have a crazy rent tie-in story. Tell us. I was in a group called Kids Who Care when I was really young with Erin and all my friends and we would sing for like different charity events or sometimes we would even go to old age homes and perform for the elderly.

And one of the songs on our set list, because we loved to sing it and sometimes like when we would do shows, we would do, we would do what you own, which says, you're dying in America. Oh, that's right. And then one time we didn't think, we didn't think. And we had a bunch of gigs in a row.

We didn't think about it. And we were just at this old age home and we were like, we got to the final four. And we were just at this old age home, and we were like, we got to the final four. And they were like, you're dying in America at the end of the millennium. And we were like, and then. But you know what? Did they appreciate it?

They couldn't hear us. It was great. It was great. They couldn't hear anything. They were like, oh, they're so cute. And no one heard anything, and it was fabulous. See, in my brain, They were like, oh, they're so cute. And no one heard anything and it was fabulous. See, in my brain, they were like, finally some hard hitting. Something so weird they can really give it to us.

Finally someone honest down here telling the truth. No, no, no. At the end of the millennium. Yeah, you had the best part. You got five years. But like, we didn't think about it at all. And that final chorus approach. So good. And we'll be right back.

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we take to become who we're destined to be. The Pink House is out now wherever you get your podcasts. When you were on Broadway, you were middle school, which is like right in the pocket of our show. So you weren't going to traditional school at the time. No, I was tutored. We all had like a tutoring classroom and yeah. That's like just when you were on set or what would you say?

When you were at the theater? Yeah. But then were you going to school and like other times? Yeah, I mean I because I wasn't sure if the show was going to take me out of North Broward Preparatory School in Coconut Creek forever. Coconut Creek? Yeah, in Coconut Creek, Florida. Wow.

Yeah, it's so Floridian. So wait, a prep school, is that very academic? Was it a very academic path you were on? No, I was there. I mean, I was there. I think I kind of knew what I wanted to do and I was a good student. I think I was a good student. But yeah, I was there and then I left to do the show and we had tutors.

So some of the kids were still in school like I was and we would just be doing our classes remotely. And then I did Victorious and I had to like finish the way that kid actors finish. I don't even remember what it's called. Yeah, is it the proficiency? Yeah, what is the test? GED. Yeah, no, no, no, no. Well, there is that, called. Yeah, is it the proficiency? Yeah, what is the test? GED.

Yeah, no, no, no, no. Well, there is that, but- Yeah, that, but no, there's like- I mean, in California, it's- So that you can work more hours or something. Every state has a different one. Yeah, so you can- Every state, so in California,

it's called the Chesapeake, California High School. Yes, yes, yes, the Chesapeake, that's what I meant. And then I was able to work, like I was 30 at 15. Yeah, exactly, yeah, no, yeah, I did the same thing. Literally. I did the same thing. So. I did the same thing. Yeah, so what was your experience around crushes at the time, like your first loves, first heartbreaks?

Oh God, I mean, my mom was really strict, so I didn't- Which means your crushes were even bigger and deeper. How do you think I ended up where I am? No, as I, yeah, I think my mom was very protective, and protective is a better word, but somewhat strict, very protective. And I didn't have a lot of crushes that I was like allowed to explore when I was super young,

but I had them and they were there, but I didn't like, I had like my first kiss secretly in the hallway one time. And I was like, at a real school, at North Broward in coconut Creek. I was like quick and I was like, oh, this is bad. I'm going to get in trouble and I need to leave. And I ran away and I don't think I ever talked to him again. But yeah, he's still mourning that.

It was after school and before going to the school store because there was a school store and that's like what people did and I wanted to be cool and I wanted to go to the school store. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was always a very like, I couldn't,

I didn't want to like run home and be like, I had my first kiss. I was very nervous and scared. Yeah. We'll cut this because I've told this story before, but I think you'll find it cute. My first kiss was in a spin the bottle game, sort of something like that,

and my parents were very strict. And then it was at a kid's birthday party, whatever, and I went to every kid at the party crying, like, please don't tell my mom. They were all like, why would we? Why would we tell you? I was like, please don't tell my mom. And then- You have to leave this in.

Cause I feel seen and understood. I feel bad. And then as soon as I got home, just like open the door, my mom was like, hi Neva. And I started crying and I was like, I kissed that in. Oh my God. Okay. Just like no reaction.

This is actually like, this was my first kiss as like a person that I can remember being. Because when I was in preschool, I kissed a lot of boys. Oh really? Yeah. I think something like, there's something extreme that happens to me. Like, you know, like when I was young, I kissed a lot of boys and I was very like fearless and then I was like very nervous and I was, I kissed one boy and then never again.

Until I was like 18. Wow, that's amazing. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like 16. That's not true at all. It's okay. Don't worry. Guys, I don't think I've ever thought about my life.

I don't know what happened to me in my life and all who I am. It's because you were performing. I've been through it too. It's the same for all of us. It's because I fuck-hate you in the head. I know. It's because of the fuck. It's because I'm professional.

I don't remember anything. Guys, wait. I was like 14. Yeah, fair. No, you know what it is? Guys, wait, I was like 14. Yeah, fair. You know what it is, every year at that age is so long. I don't remember the chest pee. I don't remember you graduating.

I don't remember anything. It's only, I mean, honestly, I feel like at that age, every year is just phenomenally long. It's its own timeline. The difference between 13 and 14 to a 13 or 14 year old is massive. Yeah, also I've been thinking about this recently, like you need external markers of time,

like whether it's, you know, middle school you know was sixth grade to eighth grade and so it happened at some point during those years or like if somebody moved house, then that's marker of time. Yeah, I have no nothing. Yeah, because you're, so I actually have this too. In between the puck.

Sorry. And today. Sorry, go on. What? But I honestly, like after leaving school, formally at like 12 years old, I'd, you know, a lot of it blends together for me as well. So I feel you.

Yeah, strange. But we're finding it today. How, I'm curious how you, like, whether you thought of yourself as an artist then or not, how were you seeing the world? What do you think your greatest aspiration was at that time? To sing. I just wanted to sing, I really loved it.

And what about, like like was acting connected? You know, because you were in musical theater then. Did you always want to just sing or at that time were they really wed together? Well, they were wed together because I wanted to be on Broadway. That was my first and only goal. I was like, I want to be on Broadway. I want to be in musicals. And I also love making music. That was the other thing that I loved doing.

I would love to like go home and play on garage band. And like, I had like a looping machine that I would play with because Image and Heap is my idol and my forever all time number one inspiration. And I saw her use one on stage. So for Christmas, my mom surprised me with one. And I don't think it was like the same thing. It was, I think actually mine's used for the guitars or something at the time, but I don't think it was like the same thing. It was, I think actually mine's used for the guitars

or something at the time, but I don't know. But I would like play and loop my own vocals and just kind of like get, I loved it so much. So I knew I wanted to pursue the arts in all any forms. I loved writing songs. I think I wrote my first song when I was like 12. And I yeah, I loved it. I just loved it. I just wanted to create. Do you remember what that song was about? Let it rain. Oh, thank you so much. I thought

I was like Mary J. Blige or something. I was like Natasha Bedingfield. I thought, I like, it was very of that era. Yeah. Yeah. Let what reign? It. All of it. It, baby. Just, I'm open to all of it. And like, why are you writing that? Like, 12, what are you talking about? I mean, I wrote a song at 14, I think,

called Stay With Me, which is like, stay with me tonight. Like, come on, we're all just regurgitating what we hear. That's beautiful. Do you have it still? It's actually, which is like, stay with me tonight. We're all just regurgitating what we hear. That's beautiful. Do you have it still? We actually have, we can send you a clip of Evan Rachel Wood singing it, because she knew it.

So yeah, we were friends at that point. And you know, it's funny you're talking about a looping machine. I really wanted one. I had a four track, but I love to stack harmonies. I just love harmonies. It's, you know, again, I can teach you a little bit about it. You should sing, I would again, I can teach you a little bit about it.

I would like to stay with me tonight. It doesn't matter. Can you give us a few of those? No, no, that was not the lyrics. See, Evan, no, I would never, I would never, everyone is just these two. I don't remember what it was, but it was not, we could go out walking,

sit out talking, it was too rhymey. And I would not, like I remember that it was, but it was not, we could go out walking, talking, it was too rhymey. And I would not, like I remember that there was a clarification. It had something repeating anyway. This is such an abrupt pivot, but we have a question we ask every guest, which is to tell us an embarrassing story from that sort of early adolescent period,

if anything comes to mind. Oh God. I don't know, and this sounds like so stupid, but I feel like I am not like easily embarrassed. I just feel like I'm like, I'll make like a terrible joke and carry on and I don't know. But I don't know. Something embarrassing about that. I had really bad OCD. Really? Is that embarrassing? That's just sad. That's not embarrassing. That's just bad. That's just like bad.

What do you mean? Like obsessive, like counting or like certain ritual, like certain had to be in the shower for a certain amount of times, singing through Defying Gravity three times in the shower. That's how I knew I had a long enough shower. What's the song? Defying Gravity. I'm not kidding.

From Wicked? From Wicked. Literally though, when I was like... Wow. Can we remove then? We're going to open the door. I could go have some more jerk chicken if... The song from Wicked. It's a show called Wicked. I've never heard of it. Sorry. No, but things like that. I feel like that's embarrassing is being... That's embarrassing.

No, I was just thinking when you said, I don't get embarrassed, and then Penn was talking about that, you know, singing the anthem and forgetting the words and not feeling embarrassed. I feel like that's something... You think there's something wrong with us, which makes us... No, no, no, I feel like that's probably part of the genesis of becoming a performer.

Like you have to kind of have the kids who don't have that. I definitely get embarrassed quickly and easily are not going to go on stage. They're not going to like, okay, I agree with you on one hand because it's like doing it in front of people. Okay, fine. But I was very, very easily embarrassed by very, very little things. And I want to recall that you kissed a boy. Internally. Internally embarrassed.

Well, that's what I'm saying. So, yeah, so what we do, I think, in this show, every now and then, I guess, we'll have, like, some kind of really prototypical, like, it was a very embarrassing moment and they all laughed at me, and it's very funny and all of that. But I think, you know, the essence of the question is, is, I don't know, it's like that soft center that everybody has, that everybody has,

that can become sort of like horrified at being seen. Maybe it's just being seen, or I don't know, but being seen in a way that doesn't feel like it's fair. Right. Well, I think embarrassed and saddened by opinion are two different things, I think. That's fair, yeah. Because I think it's like,

that's of course a massive piece of it, but it's like when I was young, I just didn't, I could easily laugh at myself, if that makes sense. That's nice. But all of it inside is all, you know, that's why you become, I think outward, do anything for the laugh.

And I guess sort of brave in that way, because inside you're like, hey, what? I suppose, shy. How many times would you sing Define Gravity in the shower? In the shower by myself, I would have to hear it three times to know that I had been in there long enough. But that was like that kind of OCD.

It was like numbers and like certain routine things. Cleanliness and stuff. Cleanliness, definitely. I would use so much, total germaphobe, monopathephobe. Like my hands would be cracking with, because I'd use so much hand sanitizer and I'd be such a germaphobe. Did this, how did COVID impact you then?

I was okay. I just was mindful of precautions that normal, but I'm so much older now, but when I was little it was like the scariest thing in the world to me. When did it subside then? Like it's interesting that it was younger and then not older. Weird because I talked to my therapist about this a lot. It goes away when I'm creating and when I'm busy with work. Like when I have a job,

it went away when I started working a lot. When I started doing like finding community and theater and finding people and finding casts and distractions and kind of a place to like put my feelings and like use my feelings. And then when I'm kind of like in an off season or like in between projects, I'm like, is that thing scary again? I'm like, am I like, is that thing coming back? I don't know. But I think like when art is in the forefront of my life, I don't have time to think about anything else. Everything really subsides when, yeah.

But yeah, that was when I was young and I was much, I think I was so brave then and now I'm like so soft and so like, I'm like a little, but it's, we're finding the balance now. It seems like maybe- It took a big circle, big, yeah. It sounds to me like something of your new record is a return to. Tiny.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Thank you. It definitely feels like a certain coming home to myself has taken place over the last like two and a half years or something. But people say that's what happens when you turn 30. I think it's just something we all kind of get. Late 20s, 30. Yeah, late 20s, 30.

It's like you get there, you come home a little bit. You talk about the return of Saturn. I mean, you have this Saturn interlude. And I, in preparing for this, I decided to, I'm like, I wanted to learn a little bit about Saturn. Here's a really interesting thing that will possibly lead you into a valuable reflection, or not.

We shall see. We shall see. So, the way Saturn got its rings, it was a giant moon, frozen moon, and it passed, Saturn has this thing called the Roche Point, It was a giant moon, a frozen moon, and it passed, Saturn has this thing called the Roche point, which is where, but here's the thing, so its gravity is so intense, I'm gonna pull you through, just wait, just you wait, just you wait.

But the Roche point is different for every object that hits it, right? So the Roche point is, listen to this. This is what all your interviews are like. If you wanna know about Saturn. No, no, no, I love it. If you wanna know about Saturn. At this point, at the Roche point,

the front of the object, the gravity is so intense that pulls it apart from the back. So Saturn, you guys want to see how much it's relevant? No, no, no, no. This is fabulous. It's like once you got to that part, I forgot the first part. So is relevant? No, no, no. This is fabulous. It's like once you got to that part, I forgot the first part.

So the ring is how the ring formed. This is how Saturn got its rings. Oh, okay, okay, okay. But the point is, the point is, the point is, The Roche point and the back. So any object that interacts with Saturn, okay, has its own Roche point where its gravity is so much lesser than Saturn's that the front of it starts to rip apart from the back of it.

Wow. So if you were to hit the Roche point, the front of you would rip off. Wow. It's all about Saturn. That is amazing actually. Yeah. Okay. Right?

So. So it's a collection of others, of what's once been. So well, it's this one actually, it's not many other things. It's just one, actually, it's not many other things. It's just one moon. And this moon, so there's like an analogy from we're Baha'is and so there's this body of writing is called the Baha'i writings. We can talk about that later off tape if you want.

Or on tape. Or on tape. Lemonada would love that. Yeah, right. You can compare a moon to a system of belief. So what happened to Saturn's moon was that it was ripped apart by its own gravity. And-

Isn't that poetic? And I was thinking that if there's any validity to this idea of Saturn returns, is that a belief system of your own is being torn apart. But then it's being reorganized rather than a single point, it surrounds you entirely in totally new fashion and form. That's stunning. Yeah.

That's beautiful. You landed it. I did land it. Well done. You landed it. That was absolutely gorgeous. And I was, so I can't, having gone through late 20s and 30s myself, I just feel like

you've turned this period into a piece of art. Actually, I hadn't even done it. You've made the rings. You took the thing, you know, you've decorated yourself with this beautiful new gem, which is eternal sunshine, right? That's what I'm saying. That's what you should say.

Can we actually just roll it back and you say all of that? That's such a beautiful, yeah. Cause it really does feel to me like, you know, having, spending a lot of time with your catalog these last days, seeing some videos and stuff and the way you've spoken about it, you know, it makes me think that there's one moment, I think in a Vogue interview where you spoke about beauty as a tool. I think we all do it. I know we all do it, especially if we're in the public eye, using beauty to hide.

Yeah, that was so beautiful. Yeah, really, really poignant. I think it's just an interesting shift that happens naturally for people, hopefully sooner rather than later, where it's like, oh, maybe it doesn't need to be so, you know, I suppose for me, it just, I felt like I just wanted to kind of come home in that way. I don't know. I felt like everything about my,

not literally talking about style and aesthetic was just heavy and like a lot. And a lot of my fans still love that style. And I think it's beautiful too from like afar, but I think it's just like, I didn't realize at the time that it was more because I wanted to be me less and less, to give myself to people less and less.

So it was just kind of like a weird way of building a character more and more and more. So that, I don't know, you know? And then it was finally like, oh, there's a little voice in there. And then it just kind of found its way, come back around. But it's funny how that can even show itself in something as little as like your makeup or your style or your clothes or your, I don't know, it's interesting. It's weird. That's totally true.

It's so strange that that has to be out there forever. All of it, you know what I mean? That is the weirdest part about doing, choosing this with our lives is that like normal people, every person with a job that isn't this changes and evolves and learns and has the ability to do that. And be like, oh, shit, I'm gonna change that. And not everyone gets to weigh in.

You don't even have to think about it every, I mean, you do, but you don't have to look at it and be reminded of it. It's a well, like, shock, blind, it's just, it's an interesting thing that I kind of do a lot of work on processing so that it doesn't scare me away from continuing. No, I think that's really, it's difficult.

It's strange. It's difficult. I think it's funny to me that a comment section of anything is literally the manifestation of your own personal fears in other people. It's like, wow, that thing that I thought that maybe was just an insecurity that had no place, that person's saying exactly that.

Yeah, yeah. So actually, I was right about all the things that make me small and stupid and dumb and worthless. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's strange because it's like, sometimes you think it might be okay and then if you look, you will find it. That's a significant part of your, you know, it's like, it's just strange.

It's strange. It's just, yeah. Yeah. Arianna, I heard you say in a different conversation that sometimes like you try to change something that actually people have criticized that you feel is valid and you change it and then they criticize you for that. Yes, it's strange. And it's like really thinking about that like, yeah, that's true.

You're in such a catch-train to like no matter what you do, people are angry at you. Why didn't you do it sooner? It's not authentic that you're doing it now. It's in response. It's like what do you people want you to stay trapped in like one very? Specific version of yourself and that's like a prison, you know, it is very interesting. I think when that started to happen I kind of started to work with my therapist very closely on making peace with the fact that like Okay

Maybe I'm too maybe I'm I'm searching too hard for this, like, for people to get me, like the Ariana that is me. And I think I just kind of need to realize that this is something that comes with making art for a living and with being in the public eye. And this is something that I have to make peace with and become healthy about so that I can continue to make art and to tell stories and to be an artist because I love it more than anything

in the world. I love singing, I love writing, I love acting, I want to do it, I love my fans. I just, it's like, it's such a tricky thing mentally to process, especially when I started in this way at this level. I was like, you know, 19 or 20 when my music career started to become what it is.

And it just was so far ahead of my development as a person. And I think I struggled for a long time when I was young, making peace with what this beautiful thing, music, had done to my life. Yeah. And I think it's still something I work really hard on being healthy, having a healthy relationship too, is this. Of course.

Yeah, and I'm thankful because I feel like before Eternal Sunshine, I was not happy to be doing it. I was not happy about it. And I'm very happy about it. I love it. I've loved every step of this album cycle so far of Wicked and of the lead up to Wicked and the audition process.

It's like feeding, I'm sorry this is so long winded and so self-pleasing. So much I'm sorry. But you know, it was just like a very informative and nutritious process. And I think it brought me home to everything I love and helped me reprioritize that my relationship to those voices, to art, to everything. And it's funny. Stick around. We'll be right back. Hi there. It's Julia Louis-Dreyfus. You may know me from my podcast called Wiser Than Me, where I talk to older women and get their wisdom from the front lines of life. After season one aired, I was

amazed by how many people told me our show made them look forward to getting older, which is why I'm here to talk about season two of the show. Sally Field, Billie Jean King, Beverly Johnson, Ina Garten, Bonnie Rae, just to name a few, and of course, my 90-year-old mom, Judy. All hail old women. Wiser Than Me Season 2 is out now from Lemonade Media. Do you ever get hit with a cringy memory of your 13-year-old self out of nowhere and suddenly you're panic sweating and laughing at the same time? Don't worry, don't worry, we all get that.

It's because being an adolescent is one of the most visceral shared experiences we have as people. And we want to talk about it. Join me, Penn Badgley and my two friends, Nava and Sophie on Podcrushed as we interview celebrity guests about the joys and horrors of being a teenager and how those moments made them who they are today.

New episodes of Podcrushed are out now wherever you get your podcasts. You said something earlier that I really didn't know and I want to, maybe I misheard, I'm not sure, but did you say that you created Victorious or that you were in conversation with the creator of that before? No, auditioned for Victorious with Liz Gillies.

Yeah. Yeah, so we were on third... No, did I say crew? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,... I had auditioned with Liz, who was in 13. Okay, that's what it was. That's what it was, that's what it was. We like flew to LA together, all green and nervous and wondering what the chances were. And we both got cast, so I was lucky to have my first two jobs be with my two best friends.

Like my first one was Erin and my second one was with Liz. And that was very lucky. So you were talking before about the kind of community that being in a stage production or a TV show provides, I mean that was for me, I think the thing that actually drew me to it more than anything, for you it sounds like there was also a really, really clear, strong, like I want to sing,

music is the future for you, music clear, strong, like, you know, I want to sing, music is the future for you, music is the path, but I guess I'm curious, what was that like? Because again, this is, how old were you, 14? I was 14, and yeah, I flew out to audition with Liz Gillies for Victorious, and we were all very excited, and we got cast, and we were, it was the best news we could hear. I mean, we were young performers who just wanted to do this with our lives more than

anything and yeah, and we got to. And that was like so beautiful. I think we had some very special memories and we feel so privileged to have been able to create those roles and be a part of something that was so special for a lot of young kids. I think we're reprocessing our relationship to it a little bit now, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. What are your thoughts on child acting? Like we've had different child doctors on the show

who feel differently. Some are like, I would never let my kids, I don't think anyone should, and others who are open to it as long as there's like certain conditions on set. Obviously my relationship to it has and is currently and has been changing and I'm reprocessing a lot of what the experience was like. Yeah, I think that the environment needs to be made safer if kids are going to be acting. And I think there should be therapists. I think there should be parents allowed to be wherever they wanna be. And I think not should be therapists. I think there should be parents allowed to be wherever they wanna be.

And I think, I think not only on kids sets, I think if anyone wants to do this or music or anything at the level of exposure that it means to be on TV or to do music with a major label or whatever, there should be the contract, something about therapy is mandatory twice a week or thrice a week or something like that. And I was actually talking to Max Martin about this the other day because he was always such an amazing person to talk to about the stressful parts of what I was experiencing. And he was just amazing. But a lot of people don't have the support that they need to get through being performing at that level

at such a young age, but also dealing with some of the things that the survivors who've come forward. And there's not a word for how devastating that is to hear about. And so I think the environment just needs to be made a lot safer all around. And like I said, I'm still in real time

reprocessing my relationship to it. But yeah, the beautiful thing about it was that Liz and I got to fall in love with these characters that we created and learn what it feels like to be so in a character that you can't separate yourself from it. And there were things like that, but yeah, the rest of it is still being worked on. Definitely. I mean, I think it's not just in Hollywood, and it's not just on certain sets.

No. It's undoubtedly true that anybody who's gonna be a really professional, competent, experienced, technically veteran performer by the time you're in your 20s. You have to have been doing it for a long time. And I don't think there's anybody who's gotten there who hasn't experienced all these degrees of what you should and could call exploitation, but as you're going through it, it's not just that one thing.

There's a million layers to it. Right. And you can find, and as a person who then depends to some degree, not depends is not the right word. Because I'm saying this for myself as well, the greatest burden and the greatest gift of my life is being a high level professional performer. You know what I mean?

I have some of the most spiritual moments of understanding and insight and mercy and compassion when I'm in the middle of it. And I wouldn't be able to do that if I hadn't been doing it for so long. You know what I mean? And so it's like it takes and it gives. There's a lot to it and I think the way that,

as you said, I mean, devastating is a great word to describe the things that are coming to light now. And it doesn't mean that it was all, It doesn't mean that it was all, it's just like across the board a negative experience for everybody who's doing it. And I think that's a really complicated and strange truth to say. It changes it a lot. It changes it a lot and that's what I think I'm

reprocessing. Me too by the way. Like I wasn't around, yeah, I mean, there's a lot there. I'm sorry, it's really tricky because also you and I, if I've gathered anything from our time together and from today over this, from just knowing you, it's, we're so professional. So I think it's kind of like in any work environment, I'm glad that this conversation is happening here

and also in the world because it's also just kind of a cultural process, it's a cultural process, like in any work environment. I'm glad that this conversation is happening here and also in the world because it's also just kind of a cultural shift that's happening where it's not just actors and singers and whatever. If you ask anyone who's ever worked ever, if they've ever been sort of like, you know, dealt with a boss that had a really bad ego and temper

and whatever, or if they've been sexually harassed or even assaulted or it's not, it doesn't, it's everywhere, ever. It is everywhere. I mean, statistically it's prevalent. Yeah, it's prevalent. We point the finger a lot and fail to often remember like, this behavior is prevalent.

It's a norm. We're told it's normal and it's changing. And I think that's a really nice place to see the world in unison standing in a place where we're like, that's changing. That's unacceptable. So yeah, I think, yes. Sure.

One of my favorite quotes, Sophie and Penn will agree with this, I have like a fire and brimstone personality too. Like I'm like let the punish. Two, what's the other part? Only exclusively, I'm like I want people to be like punished. So anyway, this quote is very fire and brimstone, but I love it.

But there's a quote that says, children are a trust which no community can neglect with impunity. And I think about that a lot. like what does that mean? Like who's harmed when you neglect children the children but also the community? The adults that don't show appropriate behavior towards children and I feel like what's What's worse in the film industry maybe or more amplified is like a spirit of adult behavior towards children What I've gathered from from interviewing a lot of our guests who started as children is that there's like two phenomena that are common. One is like infantilizing people, treating people who aren't children like children

and then treating children like adults, like expecting adult behavior from them or acting in ways or letting children be exposed to things that like they're not developmentally ready for. No, that's really upsetting. Yeah, and there's also a strange pattern that occurs where it's really taken advantage of how much it means to the young performer to get a laugh from video village. You're like, oh shit, I'm doing something great.

This is funny, this is good. And- By the way, video Village, you're like, oh shit, I'm doing something great, this is funny, this is good. By the way, Video Village, we should say, is where all of the producers and the director are watching the monitors of what's being captured on camera. Yeah, so it's interesting, because I think that was, speaking specifically about our show,

I think that was something that we were convinced was the cool thing about us, is that we pushed the envelope with our show, I think that was something that we were convinced was like the cool thing about us is that like we pushed the envelope with our humor and the innuendos were like we were told and convinced as well that it was like the cool differentiation. And I don't know, I think it just all happened so quickly. And now looking back on some of the clips, I'm like, that's... Damn, like really? Yeah. Oh shit, like my daughter, you know, sorry, you know, I just think about it. It's like what I, if I had a daughter, it's like, yeah, and yeah. The craziest part of that is like how many people have to approve it.

Like when you start working in... So many adults. So many adults. So many adults. 45 adults at least. So many adults approved that. So that's, it's like there's no spirit of responsibility towards children. There's a spirit of like a bottom line, a financial bottom line.

There is a bottom line. And then the things that weren't approved for the network were snuck onto like our website or whatever it was. And that is another discovery. But going into it, I guess I'm upset. But you know, I'm thinking towards the end, my mom was allowed to come to set when I was like, I guess I'm upset. But you know, towards the end, my mom was allowed to come to set when I was like, you know, a little.

She wasn't allowed to come to set? When we were younger, they were allowed to come to run through sometimes or like things like that, like occasionally, I think. But yeah, towards the end, she was there like a little more and we've been talking a lot about this recently and she's been like sort of. My mom and I have two by the way.

Yeah. Well, just because it's like. It's awakening. Yeah, you have to start to process like, okay, so now knowing what we all know, neither would I want my children to be in an environment like that, nor does my mother in retrospect

think that I should have been in an environment like that. So, then how do we kind of reconcile around that for the sake of our relationship? Yeah. And how do you also put it to use? How do we put it to use? How is there an end to things like this? I was actually talking about this with Max,

who I said earlier, because I think that in my contract as a Republic Records artist, I want to see them add to moving forward. I need to call Monty Libbon about this. Monty, I have an idea. No, but I think it should be provided that if you're going to be doing this on this scale and your life is going to turn into something

that you know it is if you do it, if it goes well, and if you get to do it and you get to be on the stage at the Grammys and your dreams are coming true, there should be an element that is mandatory of therapy, of a professional person to unpack what this experience of your life changing so drastically does to you at a young age, at any age. It's just really gets you for a second. Arianna, I want to say completely sincerely that meeting you now, you're just so lovely

and kind and sweet, but even from afar, I just feel, and Penn, I mean, you're just so lovely and kind and sweet. But even from afar, I just feel, and Penn, I've had conversations with Penn about this completely sincere, you're so strong. You've gone through some incredible things and I just feel like grace has to be one of your lead attributes as a person. That's nice. Thank you. You got me. Thank you. That's nice.

It's true. Thank you. I think everyone in this room is very strong. Thank you. And yeah. You don't know them. You don't really know them. I was only talking about... No, I'm kidding. No. But thank you. My therapist is doing great. That was actually, can I just, just a quick detour. Yeah.

Speaking of the funniest things that have happened in the like world that is so many degrees removed from what we're actually doing in real life. One of the funniest stories when I was becoming whatever I became was that my therapist couldn't even work with me anymore. I think it was, of course it was, but they said that my therapist couldn't even work with me anymore. I think it was, of course it was, but they said that my therapist couldn't even work with me anymore. I've been with that therapist for 15 years. Wow.

You should be ashamed of yourself. No, we literally send it to each other from time to time as like a joke. I'm like still going strong. X-Myo is a comedian, writer, producer, and when No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No, Cash is Queen.

We hardly know her, but we're determined to be her friend. You can listen to The Doe on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Think about a moment in your life that changed you, where one day you were yourself and then the next day, poof, you weren't. I'm Stephanie Whittles-Wax, host of the show Last Day, and each week I sit down with a new guest to explore happy, sad stories of transformation. Some last days are hopeful, some are tragic, but on the other side of every last day is a fresh start.

Come laugh-cry with us. Listen to Last Day wherever you get your podcasts.