Blind Plea - Listen Now: Wiser Than Me is Back!

Episode Date: October 9, 2024

We’re so excited to let you know that Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus - is BACK for a third season – with even more wisdom from some legendary older women! Each week, you’ll hear Julia have insightful, funny, and important conversations with these ladies who have so much to teach us about living unapologetically and focusing on the stuff that really matters. This season is yet again chock-full of marvelous guests, and, as always, every episode ends with a conversation between Julia and her 90-year-old mom Judy.  You’re about to hear an extended clip of the first episode of season 3 of the show, featuring the remarkable scientist and researcher, Doctor Jane Goodall. After you listen, search for Wiser Than Me in your podcast app to hear the rest of the episode or head to https://lemonada.lnk.to/wiserthanmefd.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, listeners, I'm so excited to let you know that another Lemonada podcast, Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus, is back for a third season with even more wisdom from some legendary older women. Each week, you'll hear Julia have insightful, funny, important conversations with these ladies who have so much to teach us about living unapologetically and focusing on the stuff that really matters. This season is yet again chock full of marvelous guests and as always, every episode ends with a conversation between Julia and her 90-year-old mom, Judy. You're about to hear an extended clip of the first episode of season three of the show,

featuring the remarkable scientist and researcher Dr. Jane Goodall After you listen search for wiser than me in your podcast app to hear the rest of the episode You can also find a link in the show notes that will take you there In California when you live near the mountains like I do every once in a while you get to see a bear or even a mountain lion. And it's a reminder of the wild world this place used to be and that we've tamed it thoroughly and perhaps tragically, but not completely. So when the opportunity came for our family to go to the Galapagos Islands many years ago, the miraculous volcanic archipelago off the coast of Ecuador, we knew exactly how lucky we were

and boy, off we went. And I got to tell you guys, it was way, way, way beyond my expectations. I mean, I don't honestly, I don't think I'll ever experience anything like that again. I mean, you're 550 miles off of South America right on the equator, the very place that gave birth to Darwin's origin of the species. And for an animal person, and I'm certainly an animal person, it's just magical, you know? I really mean that literally.

It feels like it's a magical place. Because you see, you step onto these rocky little islands, and you are instantly and absolutely surrounded by the most incredible variety of spectacular animals. Blue-footed boobies and Galapagos penguins and giant tortoises and waved albatross who are amazingly beautiful and Sally Lightfoot crabs and of course the famous marine iguanas who are sort of the stars of the show down there. And the thing is that none of these animals give a shit about the humans. It's awesome.

Because you are in their world. You aren't king of the hill. You're in the minority in numbers and in status. And then you put on a snorkel or a scuba tank and it's bottle-nosed dolphins and seals and hammerhead sharks and sea turtles and more penguins and iguanas. My son Charlie and I were just talking about this the other day, his memory of the experience.

And we were both remembering that when we were swimming, how all of these seals, particularly the little young ones, the baby seals, and they're so cute by the way, they would follow us and they'd start to play with us right there. They'd be somersaulting around us and they'd blow bubbles like little kids. They'd blow bubbles at us. It was like they were laughing at us. It was completely playful. Or a marine iguana would climb up onto a rock and puff itself out.

And I swear to God, it really does look like some guy in a Godzilla suit. And of course, I realize that I just anthropomorphized all these animals, but that's what we do, I think, when we try to understand them. Anyway, when I got back home to Los Angeles, I had to promote a TV show. So I went on The Tonight Show and the main guest on the show was Nancy Pelosi, which was fantastic because of course I'm Nancy Pelosi's greatest fan and admirer. So I was telling a story about the Galapagos trip on the show and I was talking about the giant Galapagos

tortoises, the biggest of all tortoises on earth. We went to go see them with this naturalist guide who is wonderful and she was telling us all about how the tortoises live for 100 plus years. Maybe we should have one of the tortoises on this show. I mean they really do get that old. Anyway, while she's talking, this giant tortoise behind her starts to rub himself up against a rock. And he gets an erection. I am not kidding you, this actually happened. And it was a giant erection, okay, because it's a giant tortoise. And I realize, oh my God, holy crap, this thing is masturbating. This tortoise is masturbating.

And right when I get to this part of the story on The Tonight Show, I suddenly think, oh my God, I'm telling a tortoise jerking off joke on national television. And the climax of this story is the actual tortoises climax. And then I also realize I'm sitting next to the first female speaker of the House in the history of the United States Congress. And she's so classy and so Catholic. And I am so not classy telling this story. What the fuck am I doing?

And it kind of threw me off my game. But of course, Nancy Pelosi was very polite and she laughed at all the right places, even the jizzy part. Anyway, I digress. My point is that the world was once a much wilder place. Humans weren't the top of the food chain. We shared the world with our fellow creatures, not because we were uncorrupted innocents. No, no, we had toorrupted innocents. No,

no, we had to share. But at some point, we stopped sharing. And what a shame, because even in the controlled, safe way that I got to experience the absolute wonder of seeing those creatures cavorting in the Galapagos, there is just so much to learn and so much joy to be derived from the living things we share this planet with. So as we embark on season three, I've been reflecting on how quickly the world is moving today. Work, social media, and politics often separate us from each other, from our own feelings,

from our relationships to the natural world, animals, and community. But the amazing women on this show are out here fighting to stay connected and reminding us of the importance of finding our place alongside each other and nature and everything that surrounds us. So today, as we begin this new season, how lucky then are we to talk with Jane Goodall? I'm Julia Louis-Dreyfus, and this is Wiser Than Me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me. ["Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana Nana With nothing but a notebook, binoculars, a pair of incredibly chic high-top Converse sneakers, and an intense fascination with wildlife, Jane Goodall, at age 26, ventured into the jungles

of Gombe and introduced us to our nearest living relatives, the chimpanzees. She immersed herself in their world, observing them, living alongside them, learning their social dynamics and behaviors firsthand. Slowly, through trial and error, patience, and pure determination, she built a thorough study of the species. Jane Goodall was first to observe that chimps aren't just passive vegetarians. They are hunters, meat eaters, and tool users.

This shattered the long-held belief that only humans made and used tools and led to the redefinition of the term man. Leave it to a woman to redefine man. See, the thing about Jane Goodall's work is that it embodies how women often approach challenges. Since 1960, she has merged good science with empathy and revolutionized how we see primates and how we talk about them, not just as categorized species, but as fellow beings with emotional complexity. For more than six decades, Jane has shown us the critical need to protect chimpanzees

from extinction while expanding the idea of conservation to include local communities and the environment. In 1977, she founded the Jane Goodall Institute for Wildlife Research, Education, and Conservation. Today, she's a global advocate for chimps and wildlife and our planet, crisscrossing the world to speak about the urgent threats facing the planet, calling on all of us to act. It is not an exaggeration to say Jane Goodall has inspired millions. She is the winner of the UNESCO Peace Prize and has been named Messenger of Peace by the United Nations and Dame Commander of the Order of the British Empire. She's a mother to her son Hugo, who is known as Grub,

and of course, Mr. H, a stuffed monkey, who sits beside her right now. She's an author, a trailblazer, and let's face it, she's Tarzan's true Jane, wiser than me, and probably so much wiser than all of us, Jane Goodall. Welcome Jane Goodall to Wiser Than Me. Well, thank you. And I'm very happy to be talking with you. I'm very happy to be talking with you too. What a treat. So first of all, Jane, are you comfortable

if I ask your real age? Yeah, I'm 90. You're 90. And how old do you feel? I don't feel any age, to be honest. I don't think about age. I just be. You just be. What do you think is the best part of being 90? The best part of being 90, I suppose, is because I've lived all these years, I've acquired knowledge. I've seen change. You know, when I was young, television wasn't invented, let alone all these Zooms and things

like that. Right. Incredible, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, how you just described the best part about being your age is really why we do this podcast. It's exactly why, because we're talking to women who have been alive for decades and have so much to share and have a perspective that's unique to the experience of living a long

life which we're so grateful for. So you just turned 90, I believe, right? Didn't you just? It was in, no, April. In April. So I'm 90 and a half. You're 90 and a half. How'd you celebrate the big day, Jane? Well, everybody wants to celebrate with galas or galas, whichever you say.

I happen to hate them. But there was one event and only one that I really, really loved. What was it? So far. Tell me. In California, on a beach, I was greeted by 90 dogs. Big dogs, little dogs, pure breeds, muds, you name it. 90 dogs. And it's an off leash dog beach. So we played in the water and got wet and it rained and it was just glorious.

Oh, God, Jane, that is so fabulous. You're a dog lover, obviously. My favorite animal is a dog. Oh, God, Jane, that is so fabulous. You're a dog lover, obviously. My favorite animal is a dog. Oh, God, yes. People think it's Jim. No, but it's dogs. Yep. Yeah. Do you have a dog now, actually?

I can't, can I? Traveling 300 days a year. No, you can't. Sad. Yeah, it's very sad. Yeah. I want to share with you something, since you're a dog lover, because I found this so remarkable

about animal behavior. So we have this dog who's kind of high strung, but he's a really good guy. And we used to have a small little dingy boat out in front of our house, and we would walk by it every day. And then it got sold. And then the next day we went walking by and my dog George stopped in his tracks as if he'd seen a lion and wouldn't move because of course the dinghy had disappeared. And I thought, my God, the fact that this is meaningful to him, that his world has just

been adjusted and he clocked it and I had to coax him to walk by that space where the dinghy was. And I thought, wow, that really, I don't know exactly what it means, except to me it means a kind of intelligence. Do you agree with that? Oh, docs are amazingly intelligent. They really are.

When I went to study the chimps, I'd never been to college because we couldn't afford it. And so I finally managed to save up money. I went to stay with a friend who'd invited me and met Dr. Louis Leakey. And he's the one who suggested, asked actually if I would be prepared to go and study chimpanzees. I would have studied any animal, but he wanted someone to study chimps. So that's how I got there.

And after I'd lived with them for about two years and learned a great deal about them, he told me, now I have to go to college. Now I have to get a degree. And I got to Cambridge University to do a PhD with no undergraduate degree. And I was told I'd done everything wrong. I couldn't talk about personality, mind or emotion. Those were unique to us. I'd been taught that they were talking rubbish.

And who was my teacher? My dog, Rusty. And explain to me how Rusty was your teacher. Explain exactly. Well, you've got a dog. You know your dog has a personality. Yes. And a mind.

Yes. And emotions. Yes. Well, all dogs teach you that. Yeah. They pick up on energy in a room. They know if someone's upset. They're caregivers, caregivers actually in fact

Yeah, and speaking of caregivers. I want to talk about your wonderful Mother who is certainly a hero in the Jane Goodall story. Was she an animal lover like you? Well She wasn't crazy. I mean she the whole family, you know love animals, but not The whole family, you know, love animals, but not out of the ordinary loving animals. But you're out of the ordinary loving animals, would you say? Probably. I began watching animals when I was one and a half, according to mom. I took a whole lot of worms to bed with me. And instead of being angry because of all the earth, she said, I don't remember this,

I was one and a half. And she said, Jane, you were watching them so intently, I think you must have been wondering how do they walk without legs. So very gently she said, we'd better put them back in the garden, they might die in your bed. So we took them back into the garden. And that's how she was. She supported my love.

Oh, God, you're so lucky. That is such, it's the dearest story. Everything about it, I love. She handled it so kindly and so respectfully and nurtured in you what was the best in you, obviously. I love the story of you being in the hen house waiting for the hens to lay eggs and everyone was looking for you for hours and hours. Did you actually get to see them lay an egg? I can see the hen now. She came in. I'd waited four hours and she came in because I couldn't think where the hell was where the egg came out. Yeah, of course.

You know, I was four years old. Yes. And I can still close my eyes and see the egg coming out slightly soft and plopping down on the straw. That's cool. That's so magical. Are you like your mother? I mean, she was obviously an adventurer because she came with you to Gombe and was your chaperone.

She obviously supported you to sort of push back against the norms, sort of push against the edge of the cultural envelope. So you had that in common, didn't you? I mean, I guess you were sort of working in tandem like that. Well, you know, the reason she came to Gombe is that at that time, Tanzania was Tanganyika, part of the crumbling British Empire. And the British authorities wouldn't allow me to go on my own. They said, no, she's got to have someone with her. So it was mom who volunteered to come.

She came for the first four months. And after that, the authorities, I think they thought I was a bit crazy, but they guessed I was okay. Right. First of all, I was hoping to sort of talk a little bit about those four months because what you were doing was hard. You were living in a tent and you both got malaria at the same time. Can you describe what that was like, Jane? First of all, the first four months were very frustrating because the chips would take one look and disappear.

So I was only getting information through my binoculars quite far away. And mom had this, she boosted my morale. She kept saying, well, Jane, you're learning more than you think. You're learning what they're feeding on. You learn how they make nests at night up in the trees. You're learning sometimes they travel alone, sometimes in little groups. And so it was really sad. She left just two weeks before that breakthrough observation of David Greybeard using and making tools.

Oh, I didn't know that part of it. Wow, okay. So when we both got malaria, she was much sicker than me. And she nearly died. She had a temperature of 105 for three days. And all we could do, we both lay there side, we shared a tent. We only had money for one ex-army tent. And all we could do is pass the thermometer back and forth to take our temperatures. Oh, you poor souls. But you survived it. We survived.

Speaking of the moment, the pinnacle moment when you saw, when you saw two things, you saw them eating meat and then you saw them using tools. It was the same chimpanzee, David Greybeard, I called him, had this beautiful white chin. He was the first one who began to let me get a little bit close. Yeah. And it was him who showed me two lews and it was him, the first chimp I saw eating meat. So when that happened, Jane, were you in the moment struck at the enormity of what you were witnessing?

Did you realize as it was happening that this is huge or were you just taking it in? I'm curious. I knew it was huge in the scientific world. I wasn't surprised because a book had been written by an Austrian, Wolfgang Köhler, and he was studying a group of chimpanzees in captivity in a big space. And he wrote a book called The Mentality of Apes. And it was very, very clear how amazingly intelligent chimpanzees were, how they very quickly learned to use tools to reach a fruit that was high up, for example. But the science brushed it aside and said, oh, but these were captive. So obviously, they're not really intelligent.

They're just aping humans, which is ridiculous. Ridiculous, yeah. I mean, humans don't pile boxes one on top of the other to reach a fruit suspended from the ceiling. Right. Right. Or even when I was reading about that moment and you talked about how David Greybeard had taken not just one blade of grass or stick, but multiple and put them

next to him so that as it, I guess, the stick or the blade sort of degraded or fell apart, he would have more tools next to him. He sort of created a tool shed next to his body, right? Yes, that's right. Incredible. And then when you were writing this and sending messages back, who heard about it first? Oh, I sent it to my mentor, Louis Leakey, the one who got me the money for six months. And he wrote a famous telegram. I wish I'd kept a copy, but you know, back then you didn't

think of things like that. Yeah. And he said, well, as we were defined as man, the toolmaker, now we must redefine man, redefine tool, or accept chimps as humans. God almighty. That is just, you must have been out of your mind. I know it happened a long time ago, but to hear it from you, the story of watching it as it happened, it must have been a truly awesome experience.

Yes, it was. It also led to the National Geographic showing interest and agreeing that they would provide money when my six months ran out. Right. And then the ripple effect of this, of course, is that then there became an awareness of the area, the animals, the conservation. I mean, so much was born from that moment that we're all so thankful for. I know you've said that you would spend countless hours sitting in one spot, which you called the peak. I wonder if you learned anything about yourself spending so much time alone. Was there something that grew inside you as a

result of that? I don't think so because I had always loved, I used to spend hours and hours out in the garden watching birds and insects and anything, squirrels. And then walking out, we lived by the sea and walking there, of course with my dog Rusty, so can't be alone when you're with a dog, but sitting out on the peak, you know, I really just had the feeling I'm where I'm meant to be, this is where I'm meant to be. And, you know, I still look back over my life and think, well, I've got a mission. I was put here for a reason and things have followed and here I am now.

Yeah, it's kind of, it's just mind blowing really. We'll be right back with Jane Goodall after this quick break.